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Nvidia Fakes Fermi Boards At GPU Tech Conference

fragMasterFlash writes with this excerpt from SemiAccurate: 'In a really pathetic display, Nvidia actually faked the introduction of its latest video card, because it simply doesn't have boards to show. Why? Because it didn't get enough parts to properly bring them up, much less make demo boards. ... Notice that the three screws that hold the end plate on are, well, generic wood screws. Large flat -head Phillips screws. Home Depot-grade screws that don't even sit flush. If a card is real, you hold it on with the bolts on either side of the DVI connector. Go look at any GPU you have; do you see wood screws that don't mount flush or DVI flanking bolts? ... If you look at the back of the fake Fermi, [from this PC Watch picture], you can see that the expected DVI connector wires are not there, just solder-filled holes. No stubs, no tool marks from where they would be cut out. Basically, the DVI port isn't connected to anything with solder, so they had to use screws on the plate."

212 comments

  1. Who cares... by Bentov · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A company faked a product...won't be the first time, won't be the last time.

    1. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Exactly. This is a non issue. Companies show mock-ups of products all of the time.

      This all just sounds like fanboy nitpicking.

    2. Re:Who cares... by sopssa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. What is the point of this "news" anyway? Lots of times companies build something that looks kinda like the product but isn't it. This was same with Wii on E3 too before it was released. It wasn't the actual Wii at all.

      The purpose is to show off their new products that are coming. Sure, they could you just have a paper that lists the features. But as people are physically there, they might like to see something too. If it's not fully build yet, they have to make up a prototype to show. It doesn't really change anything with the product - when it gets out, reviewers will tell if it sucks then.

    3. Re:Who cares... by hattig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It wasn't described as a mock up, but as a real working Fermi board.

      NVIDIA are quite a way behind in the next generation race (time-wise, not tech-wise), and they had to try and make it look like they were a month or two away from having product availability. This fakery just makes the late Q1 2010 rumours sound more likely...

    4. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't generally call attention to the fact that a mock-up is, in fact, a mock-up. That would defeat the purpose of having it in the first place. They are still going to produce real cards, showing a mock-up doesn't negate that fact. As was said earlier, the article is fanboy crap.

    5. Re:Who cares... by MogNuts · · Score: 2, Funny

      The second I saw NVidia articles I knew that this was just a PR thing just so that people don't forget about them after ATI's launch. I knew their product wasn't finished and they had to show *something* in development, but c'mon, you have to admit this is pretty funny. I mean--wooden screws and boards!

      I didn't know it would be *this* bad, LOL.

    6. Re:Who cares... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I dunno. I worked for companies that demonstrated fake products. Well not exactly fake - we had working hardware and software, just that the working hardware was a big mass of board and didn't fit in the box and we still didn't have the CPU power to get more than about 60% of the performance we were supposed to get.

      Now we went to great lengths to fake things at the trade show so we could keep the project going. I actually like the idea of tabloid hacks poking around and uncovering tricks like this, it keeps people honest.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    7. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. What is the point of this "news" anyway?

      What are you, stupid? The question you should be asking is, what's the point of showing a fake product, if not to deceive? There isn't one. If it was intended as an artist's interpretation of a future product, they could have just said so. Clearly this is part of a false advertising campaign to promote their product, and make it seem like they're ahead of rivals when in fact they still have plenty of work to do.

    8. Re:Who cares... by sopssa · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Because products in development are never like the final versions. That is because they are in development. But people in these conferences like to see something physical, so its better to make up something that looks like the final product along with telling about the features.

      If the upcoming product shown in these conferences would be the final version, why aren't they selling it already?

    9. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They used real hardware for the demonstrations and THAT is what you should be concerned with, not whether the appearance of an internal card is real or not.

    10. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 1, Troll

      So if I go to amazon and pre-order one of these based on the performance, only to find they can't actually mass produce them as valid PCI cards, that's fine? Right. It's false advertising, pure and simple.

    11. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      But people in these conferences like to see something physical

      Of course they do, but why do you think that is? Because they're just dumb punters who like physical objects, even if they're fakes? Or because they actually care about seeing the REAL stage of production, the effort going in, the technical hurdles, seeing the real product before it hits the shelves, etc.? You don't lie to people just because you know they want to hear it.

    12. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Total BS. Look again. Those are fillister head screws not wood screws. This guy just has an nVidia vendetta.

    13. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The original CD player comes to mind. They demoed it as a small elegant device on the desk, hardly bigger than the actual CD. Under the table, hidden by the tablecloth, were the hulking electronics. But they knew that miniaturisation of the electronics would be just a matter of time and they wanted to show what the system could be.

    14. Re:Who cares... by Savior_on_a_Stick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's completely normal, and there is no deception.

      Do you think Nvidia suddenly lost the ability to bring a product to market?

      That they'll never produce another product?

      Stop trolling

    15. Re:Who cares... by fatalwall · · Score: 0

      Based on your number I'm guessing you might be married... if you are... do you sleep on the couch a lot?

    16. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The purpose is to show off their new products that are coming. Sure, they could you just have a paper that lists the features. But as people are physically there, they might like to see something too. If it's not fully build yet, they have to make up a prototype to show.

      A prototype is an early design that has some level of functionality, though it may not be fully representative of the final product. This was a fake. They took some parts from other boards, cut them to fit, screwed them together in a very amateurish way, then put the Tesla logo on it and said "this is the Tesla card." There's a big difference there. The point of the article is that it wasn't a prototype board, and that nVidia doesn't even have a prototype board. The point of the article wasn't that they brought a mockup to a conference, the point was that nVidia is way behind schedule even though they say that they aren't, and they've stopped to building fake boards and presenting them as proof that they are on schedule. That's a HUGE difference.

    17. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And even more so, we are on a tech news site and you cry about the appearance of the product. The technical details are the interesting ones!

      Right, I agree. And the technical details are that they have no working silicon yet and are behind schedule. But they made a mock-up so that they could pretend that they are on schedule.

    18. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 0, Troll

      Prove it. I say advertising is any form of publicity generation related to a commercial product.

    19. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      OK, so you're willing to bet that it'll be OK. What you're willing to bet on, however, is entirely irrelevant to the morality of what they're doing. I surely wouldn't make that bet.

    20. Re:Who cares... by parlancex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Whoever modded this troll didn't read TFA. It is pure unadultered fanboy bullshit that shouldn't even qualify for the Slashdot idle section. The page is also littered with AMD/ATI ads. The article is the troll here.

    21. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody said that they weren't advertising. They are advertising, but they aren't false advertising because you can't even buy the product yet. If they pulled out a crate of mock-ups and started selling them as actual Fermi cards, then you might have a point but as it stands now there is absolutely nothing to prove because you have no legitimate argument.

      Is an automotive maker false advertising when they show off a concept for a future automobile?

    22. Re:Who cares... by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No there was working silicon at the tech show, it was encoding the HD stream live.

    23. Re:Who cares... by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I mean--wooden screws and boards!

      They are wood screws, not wooden screws. Wooden screws are made of wood, wood screws are made to screw into wood, and are made of steel.

      The boards themselves look legit - except for the odd screws and lack of an actual DVI connection to the board.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    24. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are advertising, but they aren't false advertising because you can't even buy the product yet.

      My friend, this is the whole point. Advertising something that is not available, and may never be available (at least as advertised), is a falsehood.

    25. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since when do "generic wood screws" come chromed and without a tapered head? Has the author actually seen a generic wood screw before?

      Summary is crap, article is slashdotted. Next, please.

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    26. Re:Who cares... by DAldredge · · Score: 5, Informative

      The author has a grudge against nVidia. Read some of his past work paying close attention to how many times he has been wrong before.

    27. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a friggin trade show unit, moron.

    28. Re:Who cares... by the_arrow · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just like the first Amiga prototype. Basically just wirewrapped boards cabled together. Actually used at a trade-show, but hidden under a table.

      --
      / The Arrow
      "How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
    29. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not count how many times he has been right before? That's a much higher number I might add.

    30. Re:Who cares... by bonch · · Score: 0

      Are YOU stupid? The author of this piece, as it's been pointed out by other posters, has a history of anti-Nvidia bias and of being wrong. The site has a bunch of ATI ads. You do the math.

      There's nothing controversial about having a mock-up of a product that's not due out for a while, which Nvidia freely admitted.

    31. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it isn't and certainly not in any legal sense.

      As you previously stated, advertisement is publicity generation. That does not necessarily mean it is currently for sale. You also didn't answer the question about the concept automobile. I guess in your mind anyone who shows off a future or potential product before they are ready for the market is false advertising. If you feel so strongly that it is, then I suggest that you file a lawsuit against them and see what happens.

    32. Re:Who cares... by lysergic.acid · · Score: 1

      Yea, those are some pretty outlandish conclusions to jump to based simply on the shape of 3 screw heads and a white speck in a blurry low-res photo.

      I mean, I'm sure that a tech company as large as Nvidia would have a few extra flush-mounting screws around amongst their huge stocks of video cards. If they really wanted to convincingly fake a real video card, I doubt they'd go to Home Depot to buy some "wood screws" instead of just ordering one from their warehouse or even just pulling a few screws out of a production video card they have laying around. It's also very unlikely that they'd spend millions of dollars marketing their video cards, even before launch, but then use Elmer's glue to construct a fake demo product. If they were that lazy, they'd just take an early prototype (or even an existing production card) and just slap a fancy cooling assembly and new decal sticker on it.

    33. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It looks more like fan screws to me http://atechfabrication.com/images/htpc/products/Fan%20Screw-320.jpg

      Wood screws, not wooden screws btw, usually are flat head, not Phillips head (star, cross): http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/screws-1.jpg

      The article sounds like a troll.

    34. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here are image links:

      Fan Screws
      Wood Screws

    35. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about legality, I'm talking about morality. Legality is the last refuge of people who don't care about ethics. As for your "question about the concept automobile"... that's because I didn't care to read that much of your response. But no, I don't think that there's a problem showing a concept vehicle, because it's labelled as such.

    36. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      Intelligent response. Well done.

    37. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The boards themselves look legit - except for the odd screws and lack of an actual DVI connection to the board.

      Bzzzzt. FTFA:

      The board has wood screws crudely driven through it. The vents on the end plate are blocked. The DVI connector is not soldered to anything, The SLI connectors are somewhat covered by a heat shield. The 8-pin power connector is connected to nothing. The 6-pin connector is connected to the PCB with glue, not pins and solder. The board is crudely chopped off with power tools. The 8-pin connector that should be there is not. The 6-pin connector that should be there is cut. The mounting holes are too close to the edge. There are also likely many more flaws, but this should be enough to prove a point.

    38. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you mean just like intel's larrabee.

    39. Re:Who cares... by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
    40. Re:Who cares... by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      Why not count the number of times he was right, divide that by the total number of articles? You could also multiply that by the fraction of text on the page that doesn't read like something from rense.com, and compare the resulting number to a similar calculation on other sites?

      Using that view, I think I'll stick with AnandTech, who was saying Q1 and pointing out that it was late for this generation anyway.

    41. Re:Who cares... by mikael · · Score: 1

      I've seen lots of companies do that (defence companies, medical prosthetics). The defence companies would have a prototype system that would consist of rack mounted circuitboards, then they would repackage everything into a single ASIC chip within six months. The medical companies made artificial hands which had an external circuit board controller that was packaged into a shielded box along with a battery pack belt. That was reduced down to a chip and battery that went into the wrist of the prosthetic hand.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    42. Re:Who cares... by adisakp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It wasn't described as a mock up, but as a real working Fermi board.

      NVIDIA are quite a way behind in the next generation race (time-wise, not tech-wise), and they had to try and make it look like they were a month or two away from having product availability. This fakery just makes the late Q1 2010 rumours sound more likely...

      You're right about NVidia claiming it was real

      FTA: Note 1: Nvidia PR was asked to comment on the faked cards earlier this evening. Their reply was, "I'm glad you're asking us before you write. That statement is false. The product that we displayed was an actual Fermi board. The demo ran on Fermi silicon." We do not believe all of that statement.

      I'm willing to give NVidia the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes hardware engineering samples are all hacked together like you wouldn't believe to get the first versions working.

      The whole screw / DVI / blocked vent thing could be easily explained if they had to put a DVI connector off the card (Fermi has 3 output's) and didn't have a matching backplate for it -- the screws could be holding the "floating" DVI connector. The dual power connectors also makes sense since one is 8-pin and one is 6 pin -- they may be using the same card for more than one chip in the family and depending on power requirements may use a different power connector. He claims the power connector is fake because the mounting solder points are 90 degrees from the connector itself -- the part costs a couple pennies more but you can buy power connector sockets with rotated mountings.

    43. Re:Who cares... by MadnessASAP · · Score: 1

      Wood screws, not wooden screws btw, usually are flat head

      Excuse me what!? I haven't seen a standard (flat head) wood screw in quite a while except when I take apart walls. there almost all Robinson(square) or Phillips(cross).

      --
      I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
    44. Re:Who cares... by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      Yes, but is this product so incredible, revolutionary and so and so as to warrant such a strong reaction?

      Is it supposed to cure cancer in baby seals?

      Is it at all relevant?

    45. Re:Who cares... by ffreeloader · · Score: 1

      It's very difficult to distinguish screw thread type by just looking at the head of screw. I've spent most of my life using one type of mechanical fastener or another, and there is no way I could swear what type of threads were on those screws just by looking at the heads.

      Just because a screw has Phillips or Frearson flat head does not automatically mean it is a wood screw. Those heads are also very common on metal screws too, as a countersink is often used so screw heads will sit flush with the surface metal. Anyone who has ever worked with metal knows this.

      Did the heads sit up a little in the picture? Yes, but that's because the mounting plate screw holes hadn't been countersunk yet. That's something that could easily happen on a very early prototype, and very easily be taken care of during the manufacturing process as the drilling of the holes and the countersinking would most likely be done in one process.

       

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    46. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So nVidia -- along with every other company on the planet -- should not be able to release details of future products? You can't predict the future. Any product that isn't currently out "may never be available."

    47. Re:Who cares... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      And by showing a mockup without actually admiting at first that is IS a mockup it smells like they are trying to "pull a MSFT" which used leaked "details" and mockups of their OS Cairo (later named NT) to derail competitors and kill any momentum they might have gained if MSFT didn't have a "totally new" OS "just around the corner". Done right this kind of FUD can actually kill competitor's sales without actually releasing a product!

      Say what you want about MSFT, but being able to kill competition with just the rumors of your new OS? That is pretty damned evil genius if you ask me. But considering how much booty ATI has been kicking lately with their GPUs if Nvidia is having any problems at all with fermi this would be the way to go. Throw as much bullshit and smoke as you can, try to get as much press as possible about your "ATI Killer" GPU, and hope you can keep the public running their older GPUs longer as they wait for your new product, instead of letting them possibly jump like I did to the AMD/ATI camp.

      Don't forget there is still some bad feelings out there over the "bad solder" BS, and Nvidia needs as much positive press as it can get. If this turns out to be nothing but a mockup and smoke I say well played Nvidia, well played. Remember business can be nasty, especially between GPU manufacturers as we saw with the "quack.exe" sham. Nasty tricks are nothing new for either company in this game.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    48. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually they are not wood screws. I have exactly that kind screws on my computer and it is from 2002. Unless someone has photos inside the card where the head can be seen to be over 1-1.5 cm and sharp headed. The tail does not proof anything at all!

      And the "missing fiber" thing, that is just bad joke! The DVI port is connected to the board. There is no need for cables or any other fibers.

      Looks like amateur did the judgement basing just for those photos, actually not understanding th technology or even basic screws history!

    49. Re:Who cares... by Keith+Russell · · Score: 2, Funny

      The product that we displayed was an actual Fermi board. The demo ran on Fermi silicon.

      But the mounting screws weren't actual Fermi mounting screws. How can we ever trust you again!?

      --
      This sig intentionally left blank.
    50. Re:Who cares... by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      And the power adapters not being connected to any valid solder points, and the second slot of the 2 slot cooler being blocked off...

    51. Re:Who cares... by mowchine · · Score: 0

      I'd have to agree. When was the last time anyone identified a wood screw by looking at the head? Its the threads stupid, not the head that makes a wood screw.

    52. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems accurate enough to me.

    53. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the cut off PCB, and the power connectors that connect to nothing, and the cut off stickers.

      Aside, it must of been a rush job, it was rather sloppy.

    54. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The mounting screws are actually motherboard mounting screws, not wood screws. I've got half a dozen that look just like it sitting in front of me.

      Most of the rest of the article is equal crap, displaying an astounding lack of understanding of multi-layer printed-circuit boards.

    55. Re:Who cares... by ericzundel · · Score: 1

      Besides the 'wood screws', the other claims about this card are incredibly suspect. 1) The connectors not showing through are hard for me to buy from just looking at fuzzy pictures as there are about 8 pixels for each of these solder points to juge from. You don't necessarily see the pins protruding way out on some parts. 2) Some of those parts with "missing" connectors could be surface mount. Like this molex power connector.

    56. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The 3D0 was demonstrated the same way, too

    57. Re:Who cares... by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      Why waste the time?

    58. Re:Who cares... by makomk · · Score: 1

      Do you think Nvidia suddenly lost the ability to bring a product to market?

      Well, the evidence does point to them tending in that direction. Their recent product launches have been badly delayed - or at least the ones that aren't just rebranding an existing card.

    59. Re:Who cares... by Posting=!Working · · Score: 1

      He said flat head screws, not flat head screwdrivers. As in, if you look at the screw in profile, the surface of the head is flat, not rounded like a dome.

      --
      This sentence no verb.
    60. Re:Who cares... by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      Like we give a shit.

    61. Re:Who cares... by Clay+Pigeon+-TPF-VS- · · Score: 1

      the screws ftfa do not have domed heads.

      --
      Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
    62. Re:Who cares... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Just like the first Amiga prototype. Basically just wirewrapped boards cabled together. Actually used at a trade-show, but hidden under a table.

      Prior to the Amiga 1000 being officially launched, I worked at a game company that was coding for it (all hush hush and that.) We had some of their original pre-release prototypes: just a motherboard in a black-painted plywood box with holes cut in it for the connectors. The thing had no development tools whatsoever: all the software was written on Sparcstations. I didn't get to hack any code for them, alas ... just Apple ][ and PC stuff.

      Kinda cool, actually ... wish I still had one of those prototypes. Probably put it up on EBay for a few bucks.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    63. Re:Who cares... by nhytefall · · Score: 1

      Again the question though... who cares? NV's next sacred cow will be ready and onsale at Best Buy for you when it is. Not a day before that.

      --
      0100010001101001011001 0100100000011010010110 1110001000000110000100 1000000110011001101001 0111001001100101
    64. Re:Who cares... by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      Not even close. Only possibly true if there is never any intention of deploying that product, and even then.. No.

      Car Analogy: How many concept cars ever make it to production? That's right, concept cars are created with no intention of hitting production.

      Game Analogy: DNF was never available and got years of PR. It wasn't a falsehood (sort of..), in that they actually did make the things you were being shown and there was an idea that they would be incorporated into a game known as Duke Nukem Forever. No falsehoods, even though the game fell through.

      Now, if you expect every statement made to not only be truthful not only for the current and all preceding moments but ALSO presciently truthful indefinitely into the future? Dude, that's fucked up.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    65. Re:Who cares... by Cryolithic · · Score: 1

      Did you actually look at his pictures? The board looks fine for an engineering sample

    66. Re:Who cares... by hazydave · · Score: 2, Informative

      Those original prototype Amigas (with the 5.25" drives and the expansion chimney) were in metal cases, not wooden. These generally had the older chips, Portia instead of Paula, Daphne instead of Denise, as I recall.

      This is a natural part of product development... final, consumer-ready products don't spring to life fully borne, and in the case of something like the Amiga, the developer's units (which only went out to a handful of developers) were designed to get hardware into hands as quickly as possible, rather than waiting for final system details, final silicon, shipping OS, etc. Developers who get these things understand this well.

      As for the nVidia thing... those were hardly wood screws, those are chromed machine screws most likely. I've been a carpenter and cabinetmaker for longer than a computer designer... and that, pretty long. Does this guy even know what a wood screw looks like?

      And as well... demonstrating a "Fully Functional Fermi" is hardly the same as claiming to be demonstrating a production ready board. They're not necessarily claiming a final PCB design, final hardware around that PCB, completed drivers, or even finial silicon. Anyone in the actual hardware business would understand this. People who don't understand the development process should maybe stick to videogame reviews.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    67. Re:Who cares... by hazydave · · Score: 1

      In fact, Philips heads are quite common for machine screws. You don't usually find wood screws chrome plated, and it would be a very odd wood screw that had such a shallow head. Wood screws by necessity cut and tap a hole in the wood by themselves, to they have to take a much stronger force from a screwdriver. Thus, deeply cut heads. Machine screws are threaded into pre-tapped holes, usually in some other metal, so they don't take a significant force until the last bit of tightening. Thus, they're fine with much shallower heads.

      I don't think these are countersunk at all, or intended to be. They look like pan head machine screws, not flat head. A final version of this might use flat heads that sit flush in a shallow countersink. A wood screw would have a much deeper, more gradual taper for the countersink anyway, which would have them sticking way the hell out from this unit, not neatly on top as they are.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    68. Re:Who cares... by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 1

      Exactly. What is the point of this "news" anyway?

      Well, if I was an investor, and I had put $1,000,000 into nVidia stock, and they say their product is ready and that THIS is their product, but it's actually just a mockup and they have jack-shit, I would be extremely displeased. To me that would be fraudulent. Just like if I show someone a pack of gum and tell them it's a time machine and if they give me $1,000,000 I will let them ride it. That's fraud, and it's illegal.

  2. This is actually a lot more common... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is actually a lot more common than you might think. Lots of tech shows (whether it's cell phones, computer parts, etc) bring "fake" models in. Sometimes it's just the production case with weights in. Sometimes, when a device needs to be outputting video, what you see is just a movie being played as opposed to its actual output.

    Recently, netbook manufacturers have been caught doing it. During shows, you can see some brand new, thin and light netbook with a sign as "display model only". When show-goers pick it up, they see empty holes where USB, power, and ethernet connections should be. All that's there is a LCD, a keyboard, and a plastic shell.

    1. Re:This is actually a lot more common... by cheesybagel · · Score: 4, Funny

      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.

    2. Re:This is actually a lot more common... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

      More like "any sufficiently rigged demo is indistinguishable from advanced technology"

    3. Re:This is actually a lot more common... by Kynde · · Score: 1

      More like "any sufficiently rigged demo is indistinguishable from advanced technology"

      The woooosh you just heard and are probably wondering what it was, was a clue-by-four that utterly missed you.

      --
      1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
    4. Re:This is actually a lot more common... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nah, I just didn't find the original funny.

      Especially not +5 funny.

    5. Re:This is actually a lot more common... by Macman408 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Agreed. Speaking as an Engineer who has worked on hardware between first manufacture and first sale, this is no big deal. Prototypes are expensive, and usually not pretty. And you just don't let the folks in marketing (or the executives) touch your prototypes - you usually don't have enough to use yourself, much less to loan out for a few days, and risk getting broken at the hands of photographers and the like who don't take proper precautions in handling the boards. Not to mention, they look pretty ugly - faceplates and covers may not be ready yet (or even designed), they might have a few mod wires (though that happens occasionally on shipping products too), and the ones that the engineers work with probably have lots of extra wires hanging off in every direction. If I work on a new board, I may have to pick a random heatsink out of the box of spare parts, or to have it built without all the mechanical pieces (like standoffs and covers) because they get in the way of me doing my job.
      So when the marketing types want something to photograph or show off to the world? I pick out something that's dead as a doornail. That's one of the few good uses for all the boards I kill! (Or I might give it to the mechanical engineer for shock and vibration testing, or packaging drop tests, or things like that.)

      So what's the big deal? If they start talking about their latest greatest product too long before it's ready, that'll just keep their customers from buying NVIDIA's current products. Many a company has been bitten (or even put out of business) by doing that; see the Osborne Effect. Obviously, they think it's far enough along that they can start talking about it without risking their revenue stream.

    6. Re:This is actually a lot more common... by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      It's also to cut losses to to breakage and theft.

      A friend of mine is the local dealer for cell phone service. He has a bunch of different cell phones on display, all provided by the phone company. The display models are all hollow cases, not working phones.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    7. Re:This is actually a lot more common... by hazydave · · Score: 1

      In some cases... particularly "new and light" notebooks, pretty much all you're selling is the mechanical design. The motherboard, LCD panel, etc... not exactly much question of those being available from half a dozen manufacturers in China and Taiwan, in any form factor you like. So in this case, they're showing off the look of the thing only, because that's all that actually matters.

      And it's quite true, as well, that many companies float "trial balloons" at trade shows. A show like CES isn't for you and me, it's for HP or Dell or Apple to be making deals for new products with Best Buy or Sears or whomever. It's not uncommon for things to be shown off not entirely complete, for the simple fact that, if they're is no interest, there will never be any completed product. CES Winter is right after Christmas for a reason... none of those things are necessarily closer than maybe six months away. Back in my Commodore days, even products we were fully committed to shipping (Commodore 128 and Amiga 1000, at CES Winter 1985, for example) didn't ship until August and September that year, for example.

      You just have to realize what the show is for. Sure, there may be companies really trying to cheat, but most of time, that's not actually what's happening. But in a product with maybe a one year design cycle at best, you can't exactly expect to see something fully ready to ship six months before schedule, even if that's when the trade shows are. Even if there's a working product, you can bet software isn't complete, chips may be only partially functional, etc. If they're still doing this AND announcing the product is ready to ship, then you have some fraud to worry about.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  3. NVidia confirms, claims it's a "Mockup" by micksam7 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Little update found on this article: http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15798/34/

    1. Re:NVidia confirms, claims it's a "Mockup" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's going to be harder for them to admit they were fooling people around, don't you think?

  4. not necessarily faked by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 4, Informative

    Having built many a prototype board in my day I can tell you I have utilized all manner of odds and ends including not only wood screws but wood as well - I don't think it means the card is a fake, it may be an engineering prototype or a software development board or whatever. I personally don't see anything in the photos that screams to me "FAKE" !

    1. Re:not necessarily faked by Raxxon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Exactly my thoughts. And according to a fudzilla article linked above, this basically what happened. The actual "product" is an engineering build and not something they want a PR guy waving around so they gave him a mock-up of it.

      Personally, I don't give a damn what their hype machine has to say about anything. When they get silicon in production and I can "reasonably" expect to get it physically in-hand, then I'll start paying attention... Served me well for "waiting" on Duke Nukem Forever. :p

    2. Re:not necessarily faked by illumastorm · · Score: 1

      I agree. The card used in the demo was likely a prototype and couldn't be shown. The card in the pictures looks more like of a very rough mock up intended to give an idea of what the actual card will look like when it is in production. TFA makes much ado about nothing.

    3. Re:not necessarily faked by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      I have done likewise, and I agree.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    4. Re:not necessarily faked by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, as TFS (yeah, that's right, you didn't even read that!) states, the DVI connector is not actually connected! So it can't actually display anything. Which by definition means, it's no a working graphics card. Which is another way of saying that it's FAKE. :)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    5. Re:not necessarily faked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same here. All the people screaming FAKE!!! have obviously never been in Engineering and Design.

      I once had a Modem prototype design on my desk that I could heat my coffee mug with. Would these people like that shipped to them?

    6. Re:not necessarily faked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Served me well for "waiting" on Duke Nukem Forever."

      It's coming out, you just see....

    7. Re:not necessarily faked by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Except that Nvidia was pitching CUDA and OpenCL for most of the presentation so as a CUDA board a DVI port isn't really important.

    8. Re:not necessarily faked by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Non-working power connectors are a dead giveaway. So are the coverd air vents and the cut-off board end. This screams "fake" on a lot of levels, especially as there was no need to fake anything. They did have the chip design and could have shown a genuine board with a defective (or no) chip on it.

      My conclusion is that they do not even have a board and cooler design yet. Pretty pathetic.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    9. Re:not necessarily faked by John+Jamieson · · Score: 1

      Well then you missed the photo where the PCB just ends. It looks like it was a longer board and they just sawed if off. They didn't even remove the stickers that they cut through. Oh ya, the power connectors connect to... nothing. Yep, this is no prototype, it is a fake.

  5. faker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Those do not look like wood screws to me. not even close. They appear way too small and they dont appear to be counter sunk. Go to lowes and see if you can find any wood screws that match. They do remind me of the ones used to mount motherboards or for mounting 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 drives. And my geforce 7800 gtx has those stand offs with both dvi connectors. I didnt realize that was novel.

    1. Re:faker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didnt realize that was novel.

      It's not. Note the author of the original linked article: Charlie Demerjian.

      He may be correct on certain points, but he is absolutely biased against Nvidia. In fact he is probably Nvidia's largest public critic on the topic of everything.

      Meh

    2. Re:faker by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have to agree. I don't see wood screws. What I do see is wide head machine screws holding the backplate to the assembly. Maybe it's because I work in a shop that only manufacture electronics for a specific mission, but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Much less anything worthy of the hyperbole and sensationalism coming from this article...

      I do think that some assembly parts may not fit well or are meant for a different product which could explain the bad fit and finish. Anyway seems like a non-story to me..

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    3. Re:faker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh nice! Where can I get these wonderful chromed polished wood screws?

    4. Re:faker by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Informative

      That was my thought. These look like self-tapping machine screws, w/30-45 offset at the head for pulling sheet metal into a offset groove for panel mounting(read: need a impact screwdriver to use properly or bevel punch). You can get chrome woodscrews, they're rare as anything(defeats the purpose of hiding them in case a plug fallout when putting wood furniture together), much easier to find sheet metal screws, or self-tapping metal of the same type.

      I call FUD on the article.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    5. Re:faker by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I never saw wood screws with a rounded head on them like that. Not to mention chrom dipped. I mean, if you were going to go to the trouble of chrome dipping some wood screws you sanded down to look like machine screws, you really have to be diabolical in all the wrong ways.

    6. Re:faker by zuctronic · · Score: 1

      I agree those are not wood screws. Exactly my thoughts, they look familiar... just like the screws used to mount drives or motherboards.

    7. Re:faker by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      I believe DVI needs those flanking standoffs as part of the spec.
      Every VGA port I've seen has them too.

      No idea what they're complaining about there.

      The screws holding the backplate on, I'm pretty sure they're the ones nvidia uses to hold the x-bracket on the back of their cards on with. They don't look like wood screws to me.

    8. Re:faker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well too bad YOURE WRONG because nvidia CONFIRMED it you FUCKING IDIOT.

    9. Re:faker by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      They only confirmed that it was a mockup, not that the screws were wood screws. Idiot.

    10. Re:faker by Rorschach1 · · Score: 1

      "As you can see from the picture above of my Radeon HD5870 sitting on my HD4890, the end plate is more than capable of being held on without wood screws."

      Anyone care to explain what the heck we're looking at in this picture? I see what looks like a poor video capture of a couple of video cards, but I can't make out anything relevant.

      Maybe this guy has a point, but it's damn hard to see what he's talking about from the pictures. The only one that I agree looks bogus is the one where the board is cut flush with the edge of the housing. It does indeed look like it was cut straight through some things that shouldn't have been cut.

      This guy also ignores the fact that surface mount connectors have been commonplace for many years now. The fact that there are no pins protruding through the board means nothing. I agree that it's unlikely that's the case here, but except for that last one, his pictures do a very poor job of backing up his claims. The DVI connector looks fine to me, unless there's a higher resolution version out there I'm not seeing.

      I've certainly built working prototypes that looked considerably worse than this. I've got one on my bench now with an SOIC hot-glued to the board and connected by 30 AWG fly wires. I've soldered SMT connectors onto through-hole pads, put SOD-123 diodes on an SMB footprint, drilled extra holes in boards, bent gull-wing parts to fit J-lead footprints, and all sorts of other nasty kludges.

      The alternative is wasting days or weeks waiting for new boards or the right parts that could be spent testing the hardware and debugging firmware.

      Yes, this is probably a mock-up. Yes, they probably over-hyped and misrepresented it. Is anyone surprised? And does it make any real difference?

    11. Re:faker by lanner · · Score: 1

      Those screws are chrome-finish plated. Why would they chrome coat wood screws? They don't.

      The idiot article author doesn't know what a wood screw from Home Depot looks like.

      I don't have anything to say about other things the author says, but there is no way this dork has ever gotten a splinter or piece of sawdust in his eye his entire sheltered life.

    12. Re:faker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article isn't FUD, though surely the author could improve his writing skills, I agree the screws used don't mean much. Scroll to the end of the article, where the author points out that the board has had the end cut off and the power connectors aren't soldered to the board, it is clear that this is the case from looking at the photos, I think the author should have started off with this evidence rather than the flimsy they used the wrong type of screws and they shouldn't need screws anyway argument.

      Besides Nvidia have now admitted the board was a "mock-up".

  6. Seriously?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some random guy declaring it a fake just from looking at a few pictures? Granted I am not an expert in this field, but NONE of his claims for it being a fake held much water for me.

    1. Re:Seriously?!?! by hattig · · Score: 1

      What about the motherboard being sawn short, all the ports being glued on, NVIDIA saying it was a mockup after this report came out, etc?

    2. Re:Seriously?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it certainly looks like a prototype. The countersunk screws would go flush if the aluminum plate was properly drilled. They are not wood screws, though. Lots of electronics and mechanical devices have screws like that. The DVI solder filled holes are a bit strange, but they may be working on surface mounting the actual DVI connector to the board and faked it. The days of always seeing pins sticking back through the board are over. Usually the pads would only be on the solder side and not go all the way through, but that doesn't exactly mean it's completely fake. The fact that some of the connectors aren't totally up to spec is also not an indication of a complete fake. If it works on their test machine they may well be running the prototype to work out the software while they polish the final hardware revision. Additionally sometimes you would even see extra pins on a prototype board for debug and testing purposes. While it certainly could be fake, and I haven't actually seen the physical board (just small photos), it certainly isn't nearly as fake as some of the prototype boards you'll see from marketing.

  7. Re:Lies! by turing_m · · Score: 4, Funny

    What the article didn't see fit to mention is that the combination of wooden NVIDIA card and NVIDIA Linux driver still outperform the equivalent production ATI card and ATI Linux driver.

    --
    If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
  8. Even nVidia says it's fake. by ciroknight · · Score: 1, Insightful

    And yet, you still make excuses for them? Any other company would get slaughtered in the press for such an obvious stunt...

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    1. Re:Even nVidia says it's fake. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      So what? They gave the PR drone a fake one to wave around and used the real one to do the demo.

      If they faked the demo, now that's a problem. But they didn't.

    2. Re:Even nVidia says it's fake. by darien · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just on a point of information, the "PR drone" was actually Jen-Hsun Huang, company president and CEO. If the card he was waving around was a mockup, he surely knew about it.

      Not that I see that it matters. Huang openly admitted they're at least "a few months" away from production, and it was strongly implied at the press conference that GeForce models would come before Quadro and Tesla (lots of airy talk about high-end customers running to different cycles). It was a cute spot that this was, most likely, not a real card, but it's not as if it blows open a huge lie.

  9. Happens all the time, but... by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You'd think a company like Nvidia would be a bit more careful given their CEO's penchant for bold claims and harping on any perceived gaffe by competitors.

    I suspect this "announcement" was very rushed after AMD's recent announcement of their new DirectX 11 part that seems to outperform anything Nvidia has out at the moment and at a lower price point. Combine that with Intel's snub on producing chipsets for new/relevant PC platforms and one can imagine that Nvidia was anxious to appear competitive. Nvidia is in for a VERY tough slog.

    1. Re:Happens all the time, but... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      This is just NVIDIA FUD so people will not buy a competitor's product and wait for their own product instead.

    2. Re:Happens all the time, but... by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not like nvidia just found out ATI was about to release a DX11 card. They are both sticking to long-standing roadmaps and there's not really anything to be surprised about.

      I don't think anyone is in a panic. Nvidia's GT200 line is still viable and there's no reason to rush out and upgrade until there are at least two manufacturers selling DX11 cards. Hell, there's no reason to buy DX11 support prior to DX11 actually being supported by anything. I recall rushing out to buy a DX9 card to get it early and, man, that was disappointing as it didn't perform very well once DX9 came out.

      Just keep in mind, Internet "journalism" thrives on fanboi-ism when it comes to competing companies. It's always worded to sound like there's some epic battle where the loser goes home with knots on their head. In reality, they'll end up making more money off whatever big whitebox maker picks their low-end business class cards for their cheap desktops than their cutting edge products.

    3. Re:Happens all the time, but... by Pyrion · · Score: 1

      In reality, they'll end up making more money off whatever big whitebox maker picks their low-end business class cards for their cheap desktops than their cutting edge products.

      Which is why I'll be very surprised, and unpleasantly so, if nVidia comes out ahead of any situation better than filing for bankruptcy protection, seeing as they burned many of the bridges they had with OEMs and their suppliers back during the whole bumpgate scandal with TSMC, Dell and HP. Especially with a cheap competitor like ATI, nVidia needs them more than they need nVidia.

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    4. Re:Happens all the time, but... by gwjgwj · · Score: 1

      their cutting edge products

      Like in "cutting off the edge of a PCB"?

  10. Faked or Improvised? by adosch · · Score: 2

    So the biggest complaint FTFA is the improvised/hobbiest/hurried/hasty assembly from Nvidia to make it for conference presentation? I'd say in the end it's still the card, it got demo'd and who cares. It'd be a different story if it was shipped out to the public consumer market that way, otherwise I wouldn't have a problem using it as long as it performed. Duct-tape Engineering at it's finest and it got Nvidia through their conference. I applaud. All that oppose, go cash your /. geek card in at the scrapbook store.

    1. Re:Faked or Improvised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One major issue with what you wrote: Duct-tape engineering, despite being ugly, works.

      A card with superglued power connectors, bits of the board cut off to fit that provide essential power to the GPU, etc? No.

      NVIDIA say the card inside the case was a working prototype duct-tape Fermi (tangled messy wires, etc). However can we now be so sure?

      The entire conference, interesting as it was, was clearly FUD designed to delay people buying ATI's products expecting an NVIDIA product in late December or similar. I'd suggest that there won't be a product until March 2010 based upon this fakery.

  11. Totally faked. by hattig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The end of the motherboard was roughly dremmelled off to match the fan enclosure (that is surely the designed fan enclosure for the card). The power connectors were glued on, and didn't match the solder pads for said connectors (indeed one was mostly sawed off).

    Prototype? No. This card can't work.
    Blatant fake presented as a working board? Yes.
    Back-pedalling and claiming it is a mock up after the fact? Yes.

    1. Re:Totally faked. by celeb8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The point is that noone could really make themselves care that they showed a mock-up rather than the real product. When they hook it to a monitor and claim that they're showing it in action, THEN I'll give a rat's ass about the hardware in their silly little hands. THEN maybe you'll see outrage if they use a fake. This is, as described above, a non-issue. All this ado over nothing makes me wonder if ATI doesn't have an astroturfing campaign going on or something. (disclosure: I use ATI cards, mostly)

    2. Re:Totally faked. by m.ducharme · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ferocious nerds with no life? Check.

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    3. Re:Totally faked. by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      NVidia just kicked a hornet's nest the other day by not allowing their cards to run as a physics accelerator unless another of theirs was used as the display adapter. That is my guess as to why people are getting worked up over this.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    4. Re:Totally faked. by Pyrion · · Score: 1

      I would also expect people to have long-enough memories to remember when nvidia was blaming OEMs and users for what amounted to nvidia's single defining royal fuckup - anyone remember Bumpgate?

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    5. Re:Totally faked. by rta · · Score: 1

      What's the point of showing a "mock-up" of a video card ? For some other product, one for which the physical design is important, say a car or a blender or a house , then a mock-up provides some information and it also shows that a lot of work has been done. In fact it is a work product that is actually used in teh process of production. In the case of a video card , the fact that it's a, 2 slot PCIe card doesn't show that ANY work has been done etc. The mockup itself was only interesting BECAUSE it was sold as a functional product. To put it another way, this particular object would not have been produced for any development purpose other than to manipulate the impression of the press.

        Most likely the marketing people thought that showing the prototype would cause the public to "misinterpret" the level of development because they'd see a bunch of wires and breadboards. So, to protect us public from our own "mis-perceptions" (and so that their stock price wouldn't suffer from same) they embarked on this path.

      Is it the end of the world ? no, but this kind of marketing spin and storytelling should be condemned and punished whenever it raises its head because all it does is inject noise into the system.

    6. Re:Totally faked. by hattig · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't care if nVidia had said when asked, "yes, this is a mock-up of the final shipping card". Instead they denied it, apparently eight times, when asked directly before the article was published. At some point afterwards, they finally admitted it was a mock-up.

      The real issue isn't that it is a mock-up, it is lying that it wasn't.

      Why would they lie? Presumably to present an image that they're further advanced than they actually are, to get people to hold off buying cards now to see what the nVidia cards are like when released. Sadly these people who thought they would be waiting until December could be waiting until March. And people, once they've started waiting, tend to get doggedly determined to wait it out longer and longer, instead of biting the bullet once it looks like things aren't happening.

      It surely has backfired for nVidia, at least in the techie part of the internet. And it's a shame, because Fermi looks to be pretty amazing in many ways.

    7. Re:Totally faked. by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Well, there's no particularly good reason to show you and me a mockup of a video card... it more or less looks like the last video card, unless they have announced something special.

      On the other hand, assuming the silicon is real and they're actually showing off working chips in some closed PC, it might be some huge mess covered with towers and green wires and all... which means they could still be a chip rev or more away from shipping, even if the functionality has been rendered showable in some way. I've gone to the CES show with a few dozen computers, each of which had to be carefully tuned (with a tweaking tool and freeze spray) to function at all, due to a chip that was just barely working.

      Could be they include a mockup simply as intended deception -- they don't care so much what you know about it or don't, and most people don't give a flying fig about the look of the card, they want price, specs, and performance. And a delivery date. However, folks like AMD would dearly love to know that nVidia's behind schedule, not doing as well as they're showing, etc. So making it look like you have working cards (prototype or not... if the card actually works and fits in the space of a regular card, you're much closer than if it's got hundreds of green wires, dead bugs, FPGAs in towers, etc) makes you look more ready. Which is what you want the competition, and to an extent, the consumer, to believe.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  12. Sobering by HNS-I · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This type of reporting is, in my opinion, one of the best things that have come out of the communication acceleration we have gone through. While many people here are already aware of these practices there many that aren't yet. This is the best weapon we have against the consumer manipulation that has been going on since WWII. I'm not saying that NVIDIA is a bad company, everyone does this, all we need is awareness about it.

    1. Re:Sobering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you're not being manipulated by someone who will say absolutely anything against nVidia and specifically runs AMD ads on his site? Congratulations, you're not manipulated by slick PR handlers, you're just manipulated by angry mobs.

      nvidia burned the silicon, that's all I give a damn about. Why they need to show off a fake board that looks like every other pci-e board in the world, I wish I knew. It's hardly the goddam pentagon papers.

    2. Re:Sobering by dangitman · · Score: 1

      This type of reporting is, in my opinion, one of the best things that have come out of the communication acceleration we have gone through.

      Inaccurate hysteria and FUD is what you like to see in your reporting?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  13. Well... ya know.. it's hard to tell sometimes... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    ... Who can you trust? Some random guy out there, or some Anonymous Coward.
    I'm utterly perplexed and I don't know who to believe anymore as both sides have such strong arguments.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  14. huh? so? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    Seems that they made something because the press think they need photos of a component for which photos reveal nothing. i.e it's a photo. This sort of thing happens at just about every single conference.

    Who's been harmed? You've seen photos of something that only looks like the product that you might buy and don't care a jot about the appearance of?

  15. Re:Lies! by Seriousity · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In all seriousity, you speak a bitter truth. My Nvidia 8600GT recently died, so I replaced it with an ATI Radeon 4770, as phoronix had raving reviews about good linux performance. Now the drivers for it have killed my linux completely, black screen with artefacts replaces the login screen and I can't rescue it from a login shell because ubuntu disabled the root password. Rather pathetic that they didn't account for the removal by implementing the option to log in with your normal username (I'm talking about in the recovery mode shell-login here)

    So for now I'm using windows XP... Bugger.

    --
    This post was made in complete sincere seriousity; as such any attempts to derive humour are doomed to instant failure.
  16. It's my brick in a box... by Stiletto · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone in the embedded systems biz who's ever gone to a trade show probably knows the "brick in the box" technique.

    1. You fab a slick looking enclosure for your "new product".
    2. You put a brick in the box.
    3. You show the box with wires coming out of it, and a PC behind the curtain displayinging the actual app.

    That way, you have something to show/promise/sell YEARS before an actual product is ready, and can blame the engineers for being slow to finish and test that "last 10%".

    1. Re:It's my brick in a box... by figmagee · · Score: 1

      Embedded systems biz? Perhaps. But the general technique is as old as electronics trade shows. My dad worked for a major manufacturer of spectrum analyzers during the late 50s. Putting mockups together in order to create buzz or measure interest was absolutely commonplace. My favorite story: Marketing was thinking about entering a new target market. They made up a product, printed preliminary spec sheets showing a complete dummy and dragged an empty box replete with meters, dials, labels and das blinkenlights to the IEEE show. It was met with underwhelming enthusiasm and the project was cancelled. Net development costs squandered? About 2 days in the model shop and one photo session :-) A classic in the annals of technical marketing!

  17. "Wood screws" no big deal, power plugs yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It looks like the board is narrower than a 2-slot card, wider than a single-card, so they just used a 2-slot grill and improvised. I found the arguments surrounding the backplate to be pretty weak. If the screws stick out a bit, so what? It doesn't compromise the mechanical purpose of the plate.

    But those power plugs and the solder points for them? Wow, those really are whacked.

  18. Reminds me of their drivers by hort_wort · · Score: 1

    Seriously. They've been faking those things for years.

  19. Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrivers by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The author is apparently not that familiar with screws. "Not being countersunk" has little to do with what type of screw something is. Neither does being a "wood screw" have much to do with bing flush with a surface. It has to do with the screw being "pan-head", and whether the surface has been drilled to allow the screw to fit into it. (That's the 'counter-sunk' part.)

    To see if it's a "wood screw", a "machine screw", or a "sheet metal screw", you'd have to see the threads and especially the tip. Wood screws have broadly gapped threads, and a sharp tip, and generally a bit of a taper along their length to the point, designed to gouge themselves into the wood as you screw in but without splitting the wood. Sheet metal screws have closer spaced threads, a sharp tip, and much less taper or none: they're used to screw into soft metal like aluminum and gouge their way in, but you generally have to pre-drill a hole for them. Machine screws have closely spaced threads, no taper, no sharp tip, and require the hole to be pre-threaded to work.

    Counter-sinking takes time and a bit of skill to get just right without overdrilling and making the case weak. Merely tapping, or pre-threading is quicker: I can easily believe that a prototype would not be countersunk.

  20. Re:Lies! by Nursie · · Score: 1

    Why does a disabled root login prevent you from rescuing?

    Just log in as you and do "sudo su". Voila, a root shell.

  21. Centipedes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is actually a lot more common than you might think

    Fakery? In my GPU Tech Conference?

  22. Vaporware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't beat them up for showing vaporware.
    This is normal practice, I was showing vaporware to my clients many times and have been shown by other companies countless times.
    The truth is that the product exists but not in the form you can show it. It may be still attached to a Teradyne machine to exercise it vigorously.
    Vaporware is the only way to show a product to your potential customers and get REAL feedback and ORDERS to complete development (not money but a firm commitment to buy if the product meets its specs)

  23. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Shocker, a Slashdot author unfamiliar with screwing.

  24. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by theskipper · · Score: 1

    Shockerer, a Slashdot commenter familiar with screwing.

  25. Re:Lies! by bhtooefr · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Sounds like he can't log in as non-root in runlevel 1.

    But, Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get a text terminal, then log in as yourself there.

  26. Re:Lies! by turing_m · · Score: 1

    Now the drivers for it have killed my linux completely, black screen with artefacts replaces the login screen and I can't rescue it from a login shell because ubuntu disabled the root password. Rather pathetic that they didn't account for the removal by implementing the option to log in with your normal username (I'm talking about in the recovery mode shell-login here)

    There's got to be something you can do to rescue it, surely - at least to the point where a full reinstall is not necessary. livecd?

    I learned the hard way that when you finally manage to get an ATI driver working satisfactorily in Linux do not under any circumstances fail to have a ghosted copy of the HDD made before you install a newer version of the driver. You will not be able to remember the exact moon phase, breed of goat or sacrificial incantation necessary to get the thing working again, trust me. In the end I bought a very cheap NVIDIA. The worst thing about it is that I idealistically bought all AMD/ATI to support the decision to open source the driver. As a result I felt a little bad about making the crack, but the potential for the funny was too hard to resist. Perhaps the joke is somewhat on the mark as it seems a year later some people are still having difficulty with the ATI linux drivers. When I install a new version of Ubuntu (probably next LTS), I will try to get the ATI card working out of principle (reinstall from scratch should be a lot easier). Until then I'm not going to throw another week of my life at the problem.

    I honestly don't mean any disrespect to AMD/ATI, some things are hard, some things take time. This is surely one of them. I sincerely wish them the best of luck with their efforts and will continue to buy AMD/ATI wherever possible.

    --
    If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
  27. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

    You are correct. It's gratifying to see people that know something about hardware around here. I agree, those look like machine screws that have a place in the screw kits for working on computers. Either stainless or more likely, plated. I don't recall seeing a head for wood screw that looks like that.

  28. Ya well by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Notice the source. The site semi accurate is run by a guy, Charlie Demerjian, who was fired from The Inquirer for a number of reasons, including making shit up. In particular, this guy has it in for nVidia. I don't remember the details of why he has it in for them, I think they cut him out of the information loop because he leaked some info he wasn't supposed to. Regardless, he hates nVidia and does everything he can to make them look bad. In his case, that includes just straight out making shit up.

    So that's why he's making such a big deal of this being a fake. He wants it to be fake because, well I dunno, I guess that is somehow a "win" in his mind.

    Personally I find it funny since companies do mockups for demonstrations all the time. Wouldn't at all surprise me if the card he was holding was such a mockup.

    At any rate as with most things in life, you want to check sources, and on the Internet that is doubly true. Some people have an agenda to push and will... modify, to put it mildly, the truth to suit their needs. I though we'd all be well aware of that after all the political BS of recent years :P.

    1. Re:Ya well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's fake. You can't cut a slice out of a graphics card and expect it to work. Second source confirming it's fake, unless you want to add Fuad Abazovic to the list of people who want to see nVidia fail for no particular reason.

    2. Re:Ya well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, look at the pictures of the back of it. It's not "making shit up" when the board has clearly been cut stright through the barcode stickers.

      You can argue it's not a big deal if it's a mockup or not, but it's certainly not "making shit up" to point out it's a mockup when nVidia claimed otherwise.

    3. Re:Ya well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how the one calling BS doesn't even seem to have read the article nor looked at the images.

      Everything he said was based off of images that were taken of the demo. If you don't believe what he says you can look at the image yourself and find an excuse for everything being where it is, like the 8 pin power connector facing completely the wrong way and the 6 pin not lining up with anything, or how the PCB was actually cut to be shorter, or how the exhaust is blocked and the back panel is just screwed onto the card.

    4. Re:Ya well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know Fuad's nickname is Fraud right? More notorious than Charlie for not just reporting made up news but actually generating the fake himself and reporting on it as if someone else did it. Photoshopped screenshots and benchmarks are his stock in trade.

    5. Re:Ya well by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Charlie Demerjian, who was fired from The Inquirer for a number of reasons, including making shit up.

      Like what? That's a hell of a big accusation just to take on faith.

      I think they cut him out of the information loop because he leaked some info he wasn't supposed to.

      Unlikely. Because the Inq never signs NDAs. That's their official policy and has been since Mike Magee founded it.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    6. Re:Ya well by citizenr · · Score: 1

      Did they claim it was _real working prototype"? Yes
      Was it a fake wooden mockup? Yes
      The rest is irrelevant.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    7. Re:Ya well by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 1

      You know, I had noticed a very anti-nVidia bias from the Inquirer before and once I saw your post I realized I hadn't seen any of that sort of thing for a while. Good post. As a disinterested observer I'll confirm that The Inquirer definitely has (had?) it in for nVidia for some reason.

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    8. Re:Ya well by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Charlie is known for being divulging information about the NVIDIA graphics chip manufacturing defect that affected Dell, HP, Apple and others. NVIDIA kept claiming there was no defect until the hardware manufacturers put them in their place. Like someone else said here, The Inquirer did not sign NDAs, so NVIDIA did not cut him from anything.

    9. Re:Ya well by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      I always found ATI cards work better for me (HTPC setups - I am not a gamer), however even I am not a "fanboi", so I can easily see Charlie's strong bias. It is not that he makes up facts, as far as I have seen, he bases his articles on information that turns out to be true or mostly true. However, he blows things way out of proportion, and his sarcastic style of writing is most definitely not proper for journalistic use.

      In this case, he does have a good point. Go to http://www.nvidia.com/object/fermi_architecture.html and click on the announcement video. At around the middle, he says "I have one sitting right here. This, ladies and gentlemen, this puppy here is Fermi". Well, they now admit it wasn't. Yes, they probably had an engineering sample with cables coming out running somewhere in the back, but showing it as a polished product in their presentation is dishonest, since it just tries to make people believe the release is just around the corner. If they held up just the gpu and declared "this is fermi", it would be honest but would do anything about the impression that ATI has their latest generation out while nVidia is far from a release.

      However, "paper launches" like these are common, and they often are dishonest - this is the corporate world after all, they will try and beat the competition with any means. So, while this is fine for a front page news for an anti-nVidia website, it is not an event of huge proportions. There is no point badmouthing Charlie, he did what he does well (bashing nVidia), he did it with accurate information, it is just that the issue is not really worth that much discussion. Of course Slashdot usually picks up articles that are MUCH, MUCH worse than this, so, we shouldn't be surprised this made front page ;)

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    10. Re:Ya well by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      As soon as I saw 'Fudzilla' and 'nVidia' in the same sentence, I knew it was going to be a bucket of accusations. From the moment nVidia released the GTX295, I've noticed their articles always have a tag about nVidia being shitty or deceptive in some manner.

      At first, I thought he was an ATI fanboy, but from other comments I've seen, I don't think he cares all that much about hardware performance as attempting to stick it to companies he doesn't exactly care for.

      That said, I read his site daily since it often does have articles that end up being accurate and give a teenie peek at what's around the corner.

    11. Re:Ya well by Pyrion · · Score: 1

      After going through three months of bullshit involving one GTX 285 and two 8800GTs both coughing up black screens due to shoddy engineering and shoddy driver development, plus an HP laptop with an nVidia GPU taking a shit barely a year prior, I want to see nVidia fail, but for some very specific and legitimate reasons. As in I generally can't understand how hype and brand loyalty can sustain a company through multiple fuckups with nobody to blame but themselves. Even the Republican Party has fallen on hard times since proving to everyone, even themselves, that they are no better than the Democrats and are in many ways much worse.

      I mean as opposed to a company like GM, whom I want to see crash and burn because it's been too damn long in coming and it would be hilarious, despite never having been personally burned by ever owning a GM product in my life.

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    12. Re:Ya well by jpmorgan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Getting fired from The Inquirer for playing fast and loose with the truth is like getting kicked out Atilla's horde for being a little TOO good at raping and pillaging. Kind of impressive, in a disturbing way.

    13. Re:Ya well by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just because it wasn't NDA'd doesn't mean he was supposed to reveal it. There is a little thing called "honor" and some people in the world still have it and assume others do as well. For example some time ago I was e-mailing back and forth with a guy from SVSound. He decided to let me know about a new upcoming product that wasn't public information yet (their surround speakers, which were announced on their news page a month ago). He asked me to please not go posting it on forums at that time, until they announced it on their site.

      Now I wasn't bound by that, I signed no NDA, it was just some e-mails back and forth. However I did abide by it. Why? Because it is the right thing to do. He trusted me and asked me to do something, so I did.I don't know their reasons for wanting to hold on to the fact till the end of August, but they did. I respected that.

      Well, similar situations can happen with journalists and companies. nVidia says "Sure here's some info on a new product, but sit on it till next week ok?" Journalist (rather loose term in this case) goes and immediately spills it to get a "scoop." nVidia say "Ok, fine, you are now persona non grata. No more info for you and you aren't welcome at our press events."

    14. Re:Ya well by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Well, similar situations can happen with journalists and companies.

      They can happen but it is 100% the fault of the company. Number one rule of PR - don't tell REPORTERS something that you do not want reported. Especially a reporter that has been hypercritical of your company for years now. There is absolutely no way The Inq fired Demarjian for something like that. That you would claim it so is just you projecting your own issues on whatever actually happened. As far as you actually know, he quit for greener pastures - with Magee gone, the place probably isn't the same work environment it once was.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    15. Re:Ya well by makomk · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's entirely bullshit, from what I can tell. He was sacked at the same time as a whole bunch of the Inquirer's writing staff, most likely for cost-cutting reasons rather than anything else.

    16. Re:Ya well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because it wasn't NDA'd doesn't mean he was supposed to reveal it.

      That's true. The fact that he is a journalist - that's why he was supposed to reveal it. The public interest is served by having accurate information about industrial products available as soon as possible. Journalists are supposed to serve that public interest.

  29. What's faked? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First of all, those are hard-drive screws, not wood screws, and as they ARE metal screws they could legitimately used as mounting screws for a metal bracket on a graphics card. Second, the "solder-filled holes" on the back of the card are so blurry in the picture, you can't tell if there are pins in them or not. Let alone the possibility of photo-shopping.

    What are we supposed to do when a whole article is a troll?

  30. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The screws are sloppy but not conclusive.
    I find the lack of pins from the DVI connector more compelling. And so is the edge from the power connectors.

    What i dont understand is that by this time they should have prototype PCB's. So why not just produce the board without the GPU. It would be the real thing except it wont work.

  31. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by MBCook · · Score: 5, Informative

    OK. He got the screws wrong. Big deal. Try reading the article.

    Some of the things NVidia did on their "working board" include: covering the SLI connector, not having the DVI connector wires go through vias, place the PCI-E power connectors wrong from where the board shows they should be, cut off the end of the board with a saw right though where there was more stuff, have half the vents on the back of the card completely blocked...

    This isn't just "they used the wrong screws", this is "total fake that couldn't possibly work". Saying it was a working board was a total lie.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  32. Re:Lies! by theTerribleRobbo · · Score: 3, Informative

    I believe it forces asking for the root account for run level 1.

    Dear GP: If that's the case, try sticking a "2" on the end of your boot params (ie. select the line, hit e, edit the line with the mention of /boot on it, and add a " 2" to the end, then hit b to boot).

  33. Re:huh? so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems that they made something because the press think they need photos of a component for which photos reveal nothing....

    Seems to me the photos DID reveal something!

  34. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by forkazoo · · Score: 1

    This isn't just "they used the wrong screws", this is "total fake that couldn't possibly work". Saying it was a working board was a total lie.

    Meh, they didn't say that was a working board. They said the demo ran off a working board. No real value in playing show and tell with the real engineering samples, as they probably look less like a real card at this point than the mockup does.

  35. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 1

    The reason he bothered to correct the summary so well was because the summary spent so much time screaming "OMG WOOD SCREWZ!!!"

    Also, you are correct: claiming that what was pictured is a working board would be a total lie. As such, the article's author really shouldn't be stating that nvidia claimed that item was a working board, since they had another term for it: "mockup."

    In short, the author has an axe to grind with nvidia, and is looking for anything he can to make them look bad. In this case, making shit up. :)

    P.S. Stolen from another post in this thread: Fudzilla

    --
    Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
  36. hard drive screws? by madcat2c · · Score: 2

    The screws just look like the screws you need use for hard drives. Wood screws are normally galvanized or black in color. As for the underside connection points, who knows how things are held together on the inside...or they faked it. Pics of the inside or its not a fake I say.

  37. They don't look like "wood screws" to me by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    They look more like the screws used to mount hard disks/CD drives.

    --
    No sig today...
  38. Hack reporting at its best by richardkelleher · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm sorry, but this screws in the end plate are not wood screws. I work with wood on a regular basis and spent over a decade as a manufacturing engineer in electronics manufacturing. These screws are common assembly screws in electronics, not furniture. It is also common to leave off components on proto, demo or even production PCAs. Many circuits are designed to be partially populated using a single board with various levels of features. As far as "First Silicon" is concerned, if a chip is working to spec, there is no reason not to use it. While this may not be a production board (I have no way of knowing), it could be a working prototype. I'm beginning to think the writer is a bit of a drama queen.

  39. Re:Lies! by smoker2 · · Score: 1

    You don't need to log in to run level 1. You are already in. Edit the kernel parameters by adding 1 to the end. Do this from the grub screen before booting the desired kernel . It's called single user mode. Or follow this.

  40. Re:Lies! by Mr.+DOS · · Score: 1

    Rather pathetic that they didn't account for the removal by implementing the option to log in with your normal username (I'm talking about in the recovery mode shell-login here)

    Boot to the root recovery shell, then just su username .

          --- Mr. DOS

  41. Re:Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Broken X driver most likely means Ctrl+Alt+F1 won't get him a working text mode back. A more feasible solution for the poster is to boot off his live CD and set the root password on the disk, to allow single user login, or to boot with init=/bin/sh or something similar. None of that is easy.
    I recently gave in and purchased a new nvidia 9500 board specifically because there aren't any good drivers out there, once you start demanding things, like shading, 3d and video all working. ATI somehow haven't managed once to do tearing free video, which does work in the free driver.

  42. Yeah This Guy Doesn't Have An Agenda... by colonslashslash · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From TFS:

    Top 5 Articles

    1. Nvidia GT300 yields are under 2%
    2. Nvidia fakes Fermi boards at GPU Technology Conference
    3. Apple keyboard firmware hack demonstrated
    4. Miracles happen, GT300 tapes out!
    5. Apple to Nvidia: Don't let the door hit your *ss on the way out

    Oh, and there's AMD/ATI adverts all over it. Who gives a fuck about nVidia using a mock up, companies do this all the time at tech shows. It's a non-issue! What is the issue is why an article from a site that is so obviously geared around slagging off nVidia was posted here.

    (and no, I'm not new here.)

    --
    She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
    1. Re:Yeah This Guy Doesn't Have An Agenda... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Actually nVidia is just a lying company.

      First off, they claim their "Universal driver architecture." This means if you have at least a GeForceFX card or higher, one set of drivers will work.

      This is not the case. I had to modify the .INF to get the 8600 recognized under XP.

      Then they pull the "If there's any other card in your system acting as display, no PhysX for you!" despite original claims.

      Now it's this.

      NVIDIA is just a lying sack of shit company and there's a good potential for an anti-trust suit against them.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Yeah This Guy Doesn't Have An Agenda... by Pyrion · · Score: 1

      There are adverts all over it? Where?

      Oh, you mean to tell me you don't use ABP and NoScript? Shame on you.

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    3. Re:Yeah This Guy Doesn't Have An Agenda... by colonslashslash · · Score: 1

      Actually I do, but if you went to the site you'd notice that the advert images don't use Flash or JS and are hosted locally on the website's domain. For example:

      http://www.semiaccurate.com/openx/www/images/4876678be06cd81266d0bd84b9794faa.jpg

      How exactly have you configured ABP and NoScript so that they can automatically distinguish that image as an advertisement?

      --
      She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
  43. A1 would be second silicon, not first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Generally, the very first chips that come back are known as A0. If only metal layer changes need to be done to fix issues, further revisions would be known as A1, A2, A3.

    If a full chip spin is done (or anything more than a metal fix), you start over with B0, and further metal spins are B1, B2, B3...

    So, A1 means they probably got A0 back and it had enough issues to later call for doing a metal spin. So one entire premise of this article is quite like false. Ask anyone who has ever done work with real hardware and they'll tell you the same thing about how silicon revisions are named. I've never seen a company that has started out with their first silicon called A1.

  44. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Little things matter. When designing hardware, when building software, getting those little details right helps prevent errors and failures later on. The ranting about the wood screws dominated the original post: failing to correct that would help make anyone else who repeated the rant look like, well, like someone who shouldn't be trusted with a screwdriver.

    Getting those details right can help your credibility quite a lot when you fill out a bug report, a blog, or even a letter to family.

  45. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guess what tool is used to make PCBs fit to size? Thats right! A saw! When PCB's are made, the boards that come out of the machine will have a few dozen devices on one board. The large board is then cut with a band saw to make the individual PCB. On the runs that we do, there are 15-20 PCBs are combined into one giant board (it depends on the size of the board, of course. We do small stuff.). When the giant board comes in, we cut them apart with a band saw, giving rough edges. Sometimes pads get cut in odd ways. Prototype boards look terrible, but thats the nature of development. You do what is necessary to get it to work, and deal with the aesthetics later.

    I'm going to bet that you have never worked in the electronics industry and thus have no idea what you are talking about.

  46. Then you can't be very good by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Look more closely, at the PCB, the other end of it.

    If you don't notice any of it, then I pity your boss. IT HAS BEEN CUT OFF! They sawed of the end of a PCB straight through stickers and electronics and you don't see anything wrong?

    Mind you, I think what we got here is just a mock-up. That is extremely common. You produce the working prototype that works but is ugly and a mockup that doesn't work but is pretty.

    But saying you can't see any goofs in this mock-up means you are either blind or haven't the slightest idea about what you are looking at.

    Cut-off PCB.

    Ventilation holes that are blocked off.

    Connecters that don't connect.

    This is a very cheap mock-up. And on the whole, that says a LOT about nVidia.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Then you can't be very good by Kiralan · · Score: 1

      Agreed on the cutoff. There is simply not enough PCB edge clearance for the components at the 'cutoff' end of the board, and you can even see traces (very small, zoom in and enhance..) that run off the end of the board.

      --
      V for Vendetta: People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
  47. Re:Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have used ATI cards under Linux since the mach64 chipset was popular. You folks who can't get ATI drivers to work either can't read the documentation, or have no business mucking around on a command line. It is not that difficult.

    That being said, if you don't want to muck with command line stuff, maybe going the nVidia route is exactly what you need.

    Honestly, I have had more issues with nVidia cards under Linux than ATI. I only use ATI cards these days, because I know the product will survive for more than a year under heavy use.

  48. PIB Time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok...erm..I'll get my panties in a bunch for...15...no...12 minutes on this one. OK?

  49. Read carefully by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Nvidia PR was asked to comment on the faked cards earlier this evening. Their reply was, "I'm glad you're asking us before you write. That statement is false. The product that we displayed was an actual Fermi board. The demo ran on Fermi silicon." We do not believe all of that statement."

    Note that they didn't say that the board worked, that they hadn't taken a hacksaw to it, or even that there was a fermi asic on it... So the board was a sham made from engineering refuse which they probably had to hacksaw it because there were debugging headers on the end. This doesn't preclude the demo from running on the real thing.

  50. Re:Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I actually had the same problem, as far as I understand it there are issues with certain versions of xorg, certain kernels, and the 4770 with the drivers. I *BELIEVE* I used 2.6.28 and had it resolved. Ubuntu works fine with Catalyst 9.6+, however I only have a 3650 in there.

    The 4770 causes a flicker, and then I believe actually hardlocks the system under most circumstances with a kernel higher than 2.6.28.

    If you can downgrade to it, try that and tell us if it works. While AMD deserves SOME flak for not having their drivers working flawlessly, I can tell you from personal experience a lot of the borking going on in recent history is fuckups from the 'development kernel' nature of the 2.6 series, where we'll break backwards compatibility, just because we CAN. It's even worse if you're using gentoo.

  51. Ooh Shiny... Carbon fiber et al. by wiredlogic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's up with all the decorative crap that goes into video card housings these days? It would be nice to be able to get high end hardware that isn't burdened with fluff designed to appeal to the minimally sapient crowd.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    1. Re:Ooh Shiny... Carbon fiber et al. by balinhansen · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Ooh Shiny... Carbon fiber et al. by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Actually, I really like it.

      Sure it's superflous, but it also makes the card much easier to handle. There's plenty room to grab the card comfortably, or to put it on any surface without worrying too much about it.

  52. Whoa whoa whoa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Running stories from SemiAccurate now? Are you going to start running stuff from the Onion too?

  53. Don't look like wood screws to me by jridley · · Score: 1

    They look like some of the flattop panheads that I've got around here. The tops of these screws are like pancakes, flat top and bottom with slightly rounded sides. They look exactly like that. I've got some in both 6-32 and 3mm.

    1. Re:Don't look like wood screws to me by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 1

      They look like some of the flattop panheads that I've got around here. The tops of these screws are like pancakes, flat top and bottom with slightly rounded sides. They look exactly like that. I've got some in both 6-32 and 3mm.

      Rather more tellingly, they look like the screws that are holding my motherboard to my case.

  54. Prototypes and Sterotypes by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

    Come on, cut Nvidia some slack. Everyone knows that all prototypes you see at technology tradeshows are real, like that sweet, sweet Infinium Labs Phantom console they showcased at E3 a few years back- oh wait.

  55. Re:Lies! by turing_m · · Score: 1

    I have used ATI cards under Linux since the mach64 chipset was popular. You folks who can't get ATI drivers to work either can't read the documentation, or have no business mucking around on a command line. It is not that difficult.

    Posting AC because you are so l33t? I know my way around a command line. I've gotten all sorts of difficult crap working in Linux. I've written step by step howtos for things. And I got the BLOB ATI driver to work perfectly the first time (well, everything bar not tearing, which was impossible with that driver). To do so I had to hack xorg.conf because the resolution I had (1920*1080) was not detected or supported without a custom xorg.conf. After probably no more than a day (maybe less - I can't even remember how long it took me) I managed to get it working.

    So then I read that a new driver had fixed tearing, so I wanted to try it. Couldn't get it to work, couldn't get the original to work with my resolution, and couldn't get the two FOSS drivers to work either. I read all documentation available, I read logs, I read through probably 30+ pages (may have been way more than that - when I have a problem I read through EVERYTHING remotely related I can possibly google, even if hundreds of pages) of forums at phoronix and tried everything they said, and anywhere else I could find using google (e.g. ubuntuforums.org, and others). Still no dice, and loads of people having the same unresolved problem on phoronix. With more work I probably would have gotten it out. But at some point I have to place a value on my time. Getting a low end NVIDIA card cost me $40 and installed faster than it took to download or travel to the store to get it.

    I do have confidence that ATI/FOSS community will eventually get things working well. Hopefully my small financial contribution helped to further that effort a little.

    --
    If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
  56. "SemiAccurate" doesn't know anything ... by balinhansen · · Score: 1

    I'm not surprized in the least that some no-named review web site would publish such a bogus story. There only evidence is pure speculation. That's not journalism. I expect that nVidia ran their Fermi announcement *the same day* that Radeon 5850 cards hit store shelves, days after 5870 hit store shelves, because nVidia loves to shake things up on the market with their little press releases. I admit, nVidia has every reason in the world to fake a board. I lost a good chunk of money I'd invested in 3DFX because nVidia loves to bombard the market with phony press releases about their new hardware's capabilities months if not years before they can own up to their claims. Shame on nVidia for their market manipulations and bogus litigations; shame on SemiAccurate.com for being attention whores with no truly convincing evidence for their claims.

  57. A trade show..... by rec9140 · · Score: 1

    and there is items shown that may not be real, fake, prototypes, etc.... SHOCKING!

    NOT!

    Go to any trade show and its more smoke, mirrors, dogs and ponies than you can count. So NVidia said it was a real card, big whoop. Wrong, unethical, sure, but go to any trade show for any industry and you will see the same crap. What do thing goes on in all those closed door rooms? I've been pitched plenty of stuff I know doesn't exist or they are showing fakes etc. for all kinds of stuff, its just the nature of the beast.

    I read the TFA, and quite honesly the site has an anti-NVidia bias to start.

    TFA forums references "analysts" and their issues... well I don't give a damn what the analysts think. stock analysts are some of the biggest problems with the financial markets and society in general, and a major reason for the crap in the US, at least.

    NVidia is what I purchase and always will. I specifically choose NVidia over ati and intel. I don't care for either companies products in any form CPU, GPU or chipset.

    NVidia and AMD (yes I am aware who owns ati)

    Well up front, I HAVE an ANTI ati bias. I've had nothing but crap from their drivers since the days of the all in wonders started, and then they drop perfectly good cards from the Linux drivers, because they can't be bothered. Screw you ati!

    AMD you bought the wrong company!

    --
    1311393600 - Back to Black
  58. A complete dissection by Sarten-X · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't see anything particularly wrong with that card. Let's go through it in order:

    1) The chip itself: If you're going to be standing on stage, potentially wandering aroung with a little piece of metal in your hand that represents your company's future and is literally worth millions to your competitors, are you REALLY going to show off the real thing? No. You use something that looks close just to indicate size, approximate appearance, and other basic details so the idiots in the crowd know what they're looking at.

    2) The number 7: I'm not sure what exactly is implied by the author here, but going along with displaying basic information, it's sensible to alter the display chip with a hand-drawn logo, for the benefit of observers.

    3) Blocked vent: From the look of the rest of the card, is seems that the cooling air needs to come from somewhere. My guess is that some comes from inside the case, and some comes through that "blocked" vent. See, a long time ago, humans discovered that when you run a fluid through something with tiny holes, big things (like dust) are kept out, giving you a nice clean fluid. Filters are good things.

    4) Screws: Personally, I use those screws all the time in my computer. They're great for mounting disk drives, PCI cards, case components, and generally anywhere else you need a small machine screw. Screws don't always fit perfectly in a final product, let alone in a prototype.

    5) DVI bolts: Yep. All my DVI ports have them.

    6) Stacking two single-slot cards together to show the end plate doesn't need screws: Single-slot end plates are most likely held on with screws through flanges bent over the card itself. How exactly would that be easier on a double-slot card than just punching a hole and running some machine screws through, especially considering that there's no indication of what's actually behind those screws? My personal hypothesis is that the screws go into a plastic wall that divides the card,

    7) Soldering of DVI port: Personally, I think it'd be easier to just solder a DVI port in than clip off all the little wires from the port so it would physically fit where it is. This entire claim is based around apparently a single photograph. Judging from that same photograph, there's also no contacts on the edge connectors, and only a smudge written on that sticker in the middle.

    8) Half-covered SLI connector: SLI is an edge connector. From the same photograph, it appear's there space there to make contact with an edge and cover the contacts with a thin connector. That should work, right?

    9) Power connectors: Assuming that it's absolutely impossible to use wires to connect anything over a distance of one inch, the 8-pin connector appears to just rotate its pins by 90 degrees, probably to accommodate the other stuff that appears on the board in the immediate vicinity. I'm not an expert, but according to this, that extra connector appears to provide just more power, so would it not be possible to connect it in the port, rather than on the board?

    10) Glue: Since when is glue not an acceptable means of attaching parts? I personally have used glue many times, in many ways, for the purpose of holding things in place. On a board destined for display, it seems like an even more practical solution.

    11) Board being cut off: This one almost seems legitimate,except for the fact that I have a few boards lying around here with traces (and a few components) right on the edge of the board. Yes, it looks a little crude. In fact, it almost looks like a prototype made for display, possibly even by just cutting off test circuitry from the board.

    12) Exaggerated marketing: I'm really not concerned that the spokesman said "This is Fermi" if it isn't. The point is that it's a close approximation, and the card's actual functionality isn't an issue. If they had used a real prototype that happened to burn up during testing, it would be hailed as evidence that "the car

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  59. It's a TESLA, not a video card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has nobody else noticed that the announcement was all about the computing power of the chip, that the case says Telsa on it, and that the whole point of a Tesla is that it does not have video outputs or SLI? If there is a DVI connector, it's probably so they can use the board for graphics development, but that won't exist on the final Tesla product while the GeForce and Quadro lines will have two.

  60. The assumptions in the article are all bogus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The board my indeed be a prototype or mockup but there's absolutely no way to determine that on the basis of the information in the article.

    The three screws on the endplate are standard shoulder screws, not wood screws.

    The DVI connector doesn't have any solder tails poking through the backside of the PCB because the solder tails are only .050" long and the PCB is .062" thick. In other words, the PCB designer used the correct connector with short tails rather than an incorrect connector with long tails. Also, the solder tails don't mechanically attach the connector to the board, rather the connector has "boardlock" tabs (which seem to be covered by solder blobs).

    The fact that the PCB has pads for a connector that isn't installed is totally irrelevant. PCB's quite frequently have NI (not installed) parts depending on which set of options are being supported by a particular product version/model.

    And finally, it's impossible to tell from the vias and pads on the backside of a PCB where a connector's pins on the frontside will be located (unless you have the part number and datasheet for the connector). It's completely bogus to assume that connector pins always go straight-thru and/or make simple right-angle bends. In fact some or all of the vias/pads on the backside of a PCB might not be connected to anything on the front-side, and/or some of the vias/pads might be solely for mechanical attachement of the connector.

  61. Re:Oh, dear: keep programmers away from screwdrive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Er, The screws so clearly visible aren't consistent with any I use for woodworking, but are consistent with several types I use for electronics assembly, based on the visible head. Your characterization of thread, instead of head, as diagnostic is generally true, but certain applications tend to engender design types. Sorry, dude, but these are inconsistent with any I could easily find in Rockler's catalog. Digikey, however (who doesn't stock wood screws), does have several variants with this head design.

    Mockups and prototypes are common. NASA uses several for a variety of purposes in the design and development phase. This appears to be a mid-range mockup, of the "fidelity" class. It sorta looks like the finished product, but doesn't work. So, fine. No story here. An envelope mockup shows sorta what it would look like, usually with an artist's rendering, and sorta how big it will be when it's real... with big error bars on dimensions. A functional mockup looks like an assembly from a Dr. Who show, with all sorts of things emitting from the board, save, hopefully, smoke, and it should work. Not impressive to the press, very impressive to the geek. A full fidelity mockup would essentially be a product that may or may not work, but is essentially the finished product. Its purpose is to show that it exists, and is really ready. A full-fidelity mockup is designed to show to managers and the press, folks who couldn't discern if something really worked, or not, without a scorecard, and at least two trained assistants.

    Give it a rest.

  62. ignore the article by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    because its written by Charlie Djemeran. If you happen to have come across him before you'll already know he's not worth the effort it takes to read his articles as hes the most ridiculously biassed anti-nVidia pro-ATI fanboi ever.
    In his eyes ATI can never do anything wrong and Nvidia can never do anything right. Because of that his articles are unprofessional and valueless. He's been a tired old one-trick pony trotting out the same personal hate campaign for years now.

    1. Re:ignore the article by Nate0007 · · Score: 1

      because its written by Charlie Djemeran. If you happen to have come across him before you'll already know he's not worth the effort it takes to read his articles as hes the most ridiculously biassed anti-nVidia pro-ATI fanboi ever. In his eyes ATI can never do anything wrong and Nvidia can never do anything right. Because of that his articles are unprofessional and valueless. He's been a tired old one-trick pony trotting out the same personal hate campaign for years now.

      He did say the Nvidia demo card claiming it was FERMI was a FAKE and well what can we say ?? He was Correct. Jen-Hsun Huang announcing Fermi as he held the card up and said , " This puppy is Fermi " was infact a lie. So while Charlie may blow smoke most of the time , he was correct this time.

  63. Re:Lies! by omnichad · · Score: 1

    sudo passwd root

    Once root has a password, you can login as root.

  64. Nvidia Admits Showing Dummy Fermi Card at GTC by Nate0007 · · Score: 1

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news look for the article there. So when The card that was shown by Jen-Hsun Huang, chief executive officer of Nvidia was raised to the public on hand as he declared ... " now i have one here, this Ladys and Gentleman this puppy here is Fermi " I hope they prove to be right and release a card before Jan but lets be honest, as it is it seems Companys will do Anything to get away with things now a days so as to keep making money. At least untill they can not anymore. Lets hope the Demo was Real but in truth we don't know if that was also . Nvidia should have allowed the people to see the Card in the system demo at least then it could have some truth to stand on.

  65. Tesla does not have to have DVI/HDMI or video port by dr.highman · · Score: 1

    It is for HPC. Though they share the same GPU as that in Graphics cards.