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Court Orders the Pirate Bay To Delete Torrents
lbalbalba writes "A Dutch court ruled today that The Pirate Bay has to remove a list of torrents linking to copyrighted works. The list is to be provided by BREIN (similair to the RIAA, in Holland), and is similar to the earlier ruling against Mininova. The defendants are given three months to comply, if not, they will face penalties of 5,000 euros ($7,500) per person, per day."
If you read the article, it means they have to block them too, and also block all dutch users from accessing *all* copyrighted torrents.
Other interesting parts from the article:
The defense had argued that not Fredrik, Gottfrid and Peter were not the owners of the site, but a Seychelles based company named Reservella. The Court rejected this defense as the defendants could not name the current owners or provide any documents proving that the site was sold. It concluded that the three defendants are responsible for the site.
This doesn't really sound like a surprise. They're still actively working on the site too.
Ernst-Jan Louwers, the lawyer for the three Pirate Bay defendants told TorrentFreak that his clients are currently considering whether or not to appeal this judgment.
Sounds like they're actually starting to giving up. All the recent news and problems probably have softened them up.
Just out of curiosity, what jurisdiction do the dutch have?
I'm pretty sure if someone in France decided to order me to delete something, I'd tell them to get stuffed.
.
What law do they have that says you can't _link_ to copyright material? The *IAA's are celebrating their victories lately... EU Amendment 138 : Killed. Pirate Bay: Offline. Three strikes Laws: Here we come EU, AU, .... Spokesperson for *IAA's overheard saying: "Try route around that damage, Ha!"
The only way to control this is by requiring users to have login names and controlling who can post what (perhaps instituting a probationary period of say 3-7 days so that they don't get spammed with new users).
Otherwise, this is just going to be a repeat of YouTube and other file sharing networks, copyright material still gets uploaded, even if it eventually gets deleted.
This is exactly why the Pirate Bay claims not to have any responsibility for the content on the site - they do not micromanage any of the who or what, they simply provide the service of hosting.
Cool. I get to not go to france AND tell the court to stuff it!
The EU is more then just the economic union it was meant to be. It is being used a tool to make the most extreme rules of one nation affect everyone else, the content mafia happily exploits this by trying in all different countries at once, seeing what gets through and so affect the whole EU at once.
The EU powers happily cooperate, EU law should rule all citizens except those in power as was made clear today when Berlesconi was not chastised for his many crimes.
Seems hosting a torrent in another country is bad. Controlling all media in another country, that is that others country business.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Delete them and let the users make new ones with the same content.
That's exactly what will happen, as well as new categories will be created to get around the areas that are to be blocked for Dutch users. This does set the precedent that if a site is notified of torrents for copyright infringing materials that they must remove them. This sounds perfectly fair, so long as the person complaining is the legitimate copyright holder and they point to a specific torrent. Afterall, you can't claim ignorance about the torrents if you have been notified. It also puts a burden on the copyright holder to monitor the site for infringing torrents and not the site owners.
Well that's all fine and dandy that the court orders them to do this. I hereby order them to bring me a cake on my birthday, too. What more authority does the Dutch court have than I? Even more importantly, perhaps, how do they intend to enforce the court order, even if they do have jurisdiction? I thought there was an article recently that TPB had moved their operations to some "untouchable" hosting facility somewhere. This is not like an international case against a large and established company with substantial assets in a particular location that can be seized to pay a judgment. These guys are as close to anonymous as you can get and still be an actual legal entity.
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
From: http://thepiratebay.org/legal
I wonder if that still applies these days.
They should just provide a link on the site to the online version of the court order listing all the links they're supposed to delete.
Then let them sue the court.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Never, ever mess with costumers. Those are people you really don't want to get mad.
In that case, they should link to links to copyrighted works. :-)
All kidding aside, this is so far the best response to piracy I've seen yet. It *almost* makes sense. Since they can't go after the people actually committing the crime, they order the informants to stop informing.
Translation: start mirroring all the torrents before they're removed. Hmmm, anyone got a .torrent of these?
I better buy my ~10 Piratebay t-shirts before they disappear forever. They will be collectors items.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
sudo bring me some cake
sudo hurry up
sumo flattened
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
I guess they'll be ordering Google to stop allowing searches next, followed by Yahoo, followed by...followed by. When will these idiots ever discover a clue?
the Netherlands as well
It's not property and you, sir, are not an intellectual.
The very idea that something infinitely reproducible could be considered to have value is preposterous and flies in the face of call macro economic theory. Infinite supply results in infinitesimal value.
Eventually people will realize that what is being called intellectual property is actually the result of a service, then we will all be happier.
I want to pay the person who provided the service, but pretending that something ethereal is property is not the way to do it.
It is simple to create copies, people will continue to do it and the companies who fight it will lose potential customers.
Wake up.
We are willing to pay for the services rendered, but your prices are ridiculous.
Comply, but with a caveat.
Let users upload torrent links, have them not searchable on the piratebay website itself, but let google index the piratebay. Thus if you search for a torrent, It shows up in google, but NOT AT the thepiratebay. org/.... url specifically. If you try going to the http://thepiratebay.org/path-to-torrent, it dead ends to a 404 error or something... Thus, google actually becomes the torrent 'server'.
Although that get's rid of the actual torrent files they could theoretically just have Magnet URI's on the site. I wonder if they could get away with it.
I haven't read the fine article, but that was my thought too... so do they have to delete their torrents for Ubuntu and Fedora which are "copyrighted" too?
What about the fact that torrents can't be "infringing" If I make a torrent of "The Matrix", while I may not own The Matrix, I still own the torrent. BREIN or whatever has no right to claim that my torrent is "infringing" as they are not the copyright holders of the torrent, I am. couldn't someone sue BREIN for unlawfully sending a false DMCA equivalent notice for my work.
All your 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 are belong to us
block all dutch users from accessing *all* copyrighted torrents.
So they have to block all Dutch users then?
I would be surprised if there was a *single* item on TPB that wasn't copyrighted, whether it's legal or not.
Linux distros? Perfectly legal, but still copyrighted.
Is someone screwing up the translation, or is the Dutch court really that brain-dead?
Does BREIN have explicit permission from all the owners of the products in that list of torrents to act on their behalf in copyright matters, or are they breaking copyright law by unfairly asserting that right?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
It could quite reasonably be argued that the torrent is a derived work.
- empty torrents
- torrents with viruses
- child pornography torrents
The fact that TPB suggested that they remove such torrents actually worked against them in this case; after all, it means they do perform (some) filtering.
Judgment PDF: http://www.boek9.nl/www.delex-backoffice.nl/uploads/file/Boek9%20/Boek%209%20Uitspraken/Auteursrecht/Rb%20ASD%20Neij%20-%20Pirate%20Bay%20%2022%20oktober%202009.pdf
Judgment HTML: http://zoeken.rechtspraak.nl/resultpage.aspx?snelzoeken=true&searchtype=ljn&ljn=BK1067&u_ljn=BK1067
Both in Dutch; I wouldn't rely on babelfish/google translate, and user-provided translations tend to be rife with inexact translations of legal terms... should be a proper English translation in due time.
I'll translate the section that mentions these active filter claims, however...
This is one of the findings under...
So as part of the findings of 5.9, determining whether TPB has acted illegaly against Brein, the active filtering issue has weighed against them; if they can filter those, then they should be able to filter torrents pointing to files of parties who are signed up with Brein.
Find 3TB of movies of a better looking porn star?
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
Really? A set of hashes (the only actual data derived from the original work, as opposed to just metadata about the file) is a derivative work? That sets a terrible precedent...
Well let me ask you one question: Is your money that good? Oh, will it buy you forgiveness? Do you think that it could?
I think you will find, when your death takes its toll: All the money you made will never buy back your soul.
And I hope that you die - and your death will come soon - I'll follow your casket by the pale afternoon...
And I'll watch while you're lowered, down to your deathbed. And I'll stand over your grave till I'm sure that you're dead.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Just to note... the lawyer for TPB, Ernst-Jan Louwers, has already pointed out that the ruling is a bit conflicting, noting that the torrents must be removed and -remain- removed AND that Dutch citizens should not be allowed access. ( so which is it.. block, or delete? if they're deleted, they can't be blocked. If they're blocked, why still delete them? )
Furthermore, but this is not noted by TPB lawyer, as the ruling should only pertain to NL, deleting torrents would not fit in with the jurisdiction.
This was noted by another laywer, Arnoud Engelfriet, but I'll stress here that I do not think he was acting -as a lawyer giving legal advice- when he made that statement. Though NL doesn't have the crazy "IANAL! IANAL!!!" bullcrap going on (yet).
No, not a derivative work, but a completely different work altogether. A torrent file is a file that points to where you can download another file. If BREIN doesn't own the file, how can they demand it be removed? NO part of the file actually contains ANYTHING they own.
All your 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 are belong to us
Nope, the translation is correct, the dutch article says "auteursrechtelijk beschermde werken" which literally means "copyrighted work"
On the occasions when I need to find something via BitTorrent that I'm not certain I can find anywhere else, I will check this bookmark:
http://netforbeginners.about.com/od/peersharing/f/torrentsearch.htm
I can't keep up with which torrent sites are up, down, removed or what. This page usually gives me a fighting chance of finding a functional torrent-related site with the *cough* information I need.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
From the verdict ( http://zoeken.rechtspraak.nl/resultpage.aspx?snelzoeken=true&searchtype=ljn&ljn=BK1067&u_ljn=BK1067 - Dutch ), emphasis mine...
So, no, this isn't about ALL torrent files. Your Linux Distros and such are safe.
Holland : The Netherlands => California : The USA
Privacy is terrorism.
Yeah, because proving a court's rulings inconsistent is the best way to win in the real world. See here for another example.
And in other news, King Canute has reportedly just tried to stop the tide.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
free television, then the vcr, then the dvd, now the internet: it was all supposed to destroy the movie theatre. it hasn't. movies will still sell tickets even if their dvd market is $0. sitting in your basement by yourself watching transformers on a 17 inch monitor and tinny speakers is just AWESOME dude ;-P even if you had a legal dvd
you can get a 55" HD tv and dolby surround sound in your rec room? oh right, because everyone can afford that. oh, and all your friends will show up on cue every time you feel the sudden urge to watch a movie, right? not to mention the new frontier of 3D content, 3 stories high immersive IMAX theatres, etc
fact: if hollywood gave away every movie it made for free on the internet on the same day as release, they would still be rolling in dough. because watching a movie at home does not, and will never replace the experience of seeing it in a theatre. even with all the crying babies and the cell phones (yes, there are people for which crying babies and cell phones has totally destroyed their desire to ever go theatres again: all 13 dozen of you in the us population: a small minor cranky fringe who are so perversely overly sensitive and overly reacting)
the modern movie theatre replaces, in effect, older shared cultural experiences like going to church, the public debate forum of old greece, going to see plays in victorian times, etc. we are social creatures. we crave fellowship, we know we are in the darkness with a couple hundred other people (munching popcorn: their presence is felt) and this validates our emotional experience in a movie: we SHARE it
why do you write on slashdot? you wish to SHARE your feelings and thoughts. this is what it means in many ways to be human. when you go to a horror movie, and you gasp at a shocking scene, the experience in heightened when you also hear a woman shriek behind you. when you hear laughter at a comedy in the audience around you, you in turn laugh louder and feel more mirthful. why do television sitcoms pipe canned laughter over their shows? its a genuine human sociological effect
the point? if all of intellectual property laws were erased, we would see an INCREASE in cultural output and quality, without the laws getting in the way of artists attempting to create art (and running into interference from the great grandson of a guy who wrote a song he wants to use on a soundtrack, etc), and without distributors telling us what to watch/ read/ listen to (internet sites devoted to rating output would do that instead)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
TPB needs to buy a plot of land somewhere, declare it a country, establish a governing body and be out of reach of all these different jurisdictions that cave under the pressure of the MPAA, RIAA, and their international equivalents. I'd gladly pay a handsome fee to move to such a country if they promised it wouldn't be rife with real life crime. I guess that's just be being idealistic though.
They should just provide a link on the site to the online version of the court order listing all the links they're supposed to delete. Then let them sue the court.
Pull a stunt like this on an American judge and you will be fitted for a 6x8 cinder block cell and a bunk mate named Big Mike.
If I stand on a street corner downtown handing out maps of where to buy drugs, can I be arrested even if I have no connection to the people actually selling drugs?
Yes.
In the real world, of course, you would be dead before morning if you tried anything of this sort on your own.
They might just dress you up in women's clothing...
... and hang around in bars?
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
I've used TPB to find several classical philosophers works, including socrates and aristotle.
I hope the surprise doesn't kill you. ;_;
So where are major metropolitan police forces supposed to get their guns from?
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
"Reasonably"? I don't think so. I'm fairly sure that something can't be a derived work if it wouldn't qualify for copyright on its own. For example, if I say "The length of your comment is 71 characters", that sentence is derived from your (copyrighted) comment, but it's just a fact and thus not a derived work. Similarly, a torrent file may contain information (hashes & lengths) derived from a copyrighted work, but that information would not qualify for copyright on its own merits—being nothing more than abstract facts about the referenced data—and thus should not be considered a derived work.
Claiming that torrent files are derived works is analogous to claiming that bibliography entries are derived works; both are purely a set of facts which exist only for identification purposes.
(Notice that there's an odd form of double-think involved in allowing copyright for digital works and not facts when anything in digital form is ultimately nothing more than a collection of facts. Of course, allowing copyright over pure facts would be ridiculous, so the only way to resolve the issue is to recognize that it is inconsistent to allow copyright over anything—not that I expect the pro-copyright group to give up over a little matter like their position being inherently self-contradictory.)
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
And do you think that they aren't entitled to make a living?
People like you make me sick.
Always back up, never back down. ---- Think you're cool 'cos your uid is prime? Take mine, modulo the one digit integers
You wrote "shit eating" when you should have written "shit-eating".
IMPOSTER! A real grammar nazi would know that the period goes BEFORE the quotation mark.
I'll bite; that applies only to quoted sentences.
(Grammar Troll'd)
Always back up, never back down. ---- Think you're cool 'cos your uid is prime? Take mine, modulo the one digit integers
Good idea! The only thing they'd would have to filter out in Iran are pictures that show women in short-sleeved shirts, man in shorts, and any blasphemous or immoral music. That leaves plenty of space on the server for... eh... ahum... linux distros!
I couldn't resist, this one is too easy...
George Romero's 1968 classic "Night of the Living Dead" is in the public domain. This is mentioned in the pirate bay description. Here is a more detailed explanation from wikipedia.
-Mysteryvortex