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Wikileaks Publishes 500,000 9/11 Pager Messages

An anonymous reader writes "Wikileaks is preparing to release 500,000 intercepted pager messages from a 24-hour period encompassing the September 11 terrorist attacks. The messages show emergency services springing into action and computer systems sending automated messages as buildings collapse. Wikileaks implies this data came from an organised collection effort."

309 comments

  1. News to me by EdZ · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Pagers still exist? Granted they never caught on in the UK, but I've never, not even once, seen an actual functioning pager in use. I guess text messaging took over any utility pagers would have over here.

    1. Re:News to me by rainmaestro · · Score: 2, Informative

      You still see them in the medical community (ER docs, nurses, etc), but that's about the only place I ever seen them nowadays.

    2. Re:News to me by DJ+Jones · · Score: 3, Informative
      Most hospital physicians still use them for a few reasons.
      • There are no dead zones
      • They are easier to page than a cell phone (any nurse can pick up the nearest land line, no need to text)
      • They don't interfere with medical equipment (which is becoming less of a concern lately)
    3. Re:News to me by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pagers can be more reliable than TM. And a lot of people turn off their cell phone when they are sleeping. Ringing cell phones often aren't loud enough to wake you up anyway. Not everyone has a cell phone. (I don't) A lot of automated systems are still only able to do a broadcast-style alert to multiple pagers, not text messaging. (volunteer fire departments are good examples) Pagers can run a month or more on a single AA battery which increases their reliability. Lots of reasons to stick with pagers.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    4. Re:News to me by Tteddo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have one!! I don't have a phone either. And I am in IT. And yes, the young-ins make fun of me.

    5. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There are also places where two-way devices (i.e. mobile phones) aren't allowed for security reasons. We maintain a bunch of pagers for just that reason.

    6. Re:News to me by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You do realize that 9/11 occurred over eight years ago. Even if pagers didn't exist now, they did exist then.

    7. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In 1998, when I started college, I got a pager, since it was a $5/mo alternative to a cell phone. I said that I did not want to get a cell phone until it could be my only phone.

      I held through on that. In 2005, I used the relatively new number portability law to get my home phone number transferred to a cell phone, and ditched my pager service.

    8. Re:News to me by oodaloop · · Score: 4, Informative

      Plus they are the only comm devices allowed in classified facilities.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    9. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You must be young. Pagers were very widely used in the UK when mobile phones where the size of car batteries, and emergency staff still use them because they are far more reliable than mobile networks. It's only office lackies that moved to mobile comms, because just about everyone working in an office has one, and companies don't have to pay for pager services, and it's pretty rare for a business communication to truly be an emergency.

    10. Re:News to me by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Not everyone has a cell phone. (I don't)

      Obviously this depends on culture. I've never met anyone who had a pager, I've never seen a pager in real life or heard of anyone using one outside the US. Text messaging on the other hand have been in common use since early 2001, and everyone has a mobile phone, if not for any other reason, then because it is many times cheaper than a fixed phone if you don't use a phone often.

    11. Re:News to me by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You've never known anybody who is on call? SMS is unreliable, and if you're paying someone to be on-call, you want their service to be reliable. You don't want the message "Critical production server down, administrator needed" to be delayed 15 minutes because of some SMS issue. It doesn't matter nearly as much if "LOL, at movies" gets delayed, but the on-call message can literally be worth thousands of dollars per minute it is delayed. Of course on-call folks have cell phones too, but the pager tends to be the first method of communication employed.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    12. Re:News to me by samkass · · Score: 1

      The last pager/beeper I saw used by a software geek was in the mid 90's. Believe it or not, the tech universe didn't start 10 years ago :).

      --
      E pluribus unum
    13. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Not for long....

    14. Re:News to me by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      Ringing cell phones often aren't loud enough to wake you up anyway.

      Some are. Mine is. I used to have an old LG phone that sounded exactly like an old fashioned landline phone, the kind with a real bell in it. It was loud enough to wake you up, too.

      I use my phone for an alarm clock.

    15. Re:News to me by Inda · · Score: 0, Troll

      SMS is unreliable? Where?

      In the 15 years I've been using it, only New Years Eve at midnight caused any problems. This was a long time ago too. I don't remember it happening for the last few years.

      15 minutes wait? Where?

      I do transactions online, and SMS messages come in as quick as email. Argos, Tesco Top-ups - instant.

      Voice mail texts me after a missed call. Instant.

      Me thinks you live in a 3rd world country, or one that is very backward.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    16. Re:News to me by JWSmythe · · Score: 3, Informative

          At one place I worked years ago, we used pagers. As cell phones became more popular, we stared switching over to them. Every once in a while, we'd test to see which ones worked better. Text messages emailed to the phones were usually faster than the alphanumeric pagers. In time, we ditched the pagers entirely, since they were slower to receive, and we felt silly carrying around too many devices.

          For completeness of coverage, the messages were sent to 5 different people via two methods each. Usually it was email and phone. If there was an emergency, and no admins checked in, the phone calls started going out. Most events were handled in 5 minutes, even if the primary person was unavailable. That wasn't bad considering not everything happened during normal working hours. Actually, most emergencies didn't happen during normal working hours. That would have made them too easy. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    17. Re:News to me by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      I've never seen a pager in real life or heard of anyone using one outside the US.

      Hailing from somewhere in Asia. My first job as an IT technician involved a pager. It was a pain to carry, but it's better than staff contacting me on my mobile.

      I realized that when people knew my mobile number, they tend to call me for small matters (e.g. "can you show me how to use VLOOKUP again? I've got these two lists of customer names to compare."). On the other hand, if they knew only my pager number, they tend not to page me unless it's important (e.g. "the POS system stopped working; all the 8 outlets are affected, and the lunch crowd is just starting to come in").

      Thus, having a pager gives staff and management the feeling that I'm contactable, while actually shielding me from people bothering me for small reasons.

    18. Re:News to me by lawpoop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pagers still exist?

      These are texts and pages from 9/11/2001, which is some 8 years ago.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    19. Re:News to me by Twisted+Willie · · Score: 2, Informative

      SMS is unreliable? Where?

      Unreliable as in you get no guarantees if and when a message will actually be delivered. Try to find a carrier anywhere that offers you a contract with an SLA on SMS delivery. Granted, you won't often run into problems with SMS, but if you are bound by an SLA with a customer, you'd better have your underpinning contracts (yay for ITIL terminology) at the same level as that SLA.

    20. Re:News to me by Courageous · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I still see them in use for certain IT folks in the defense industry. The key is that they will permit them into secure facilities, as the old one-way versions cannot transmit.

    21. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a shame though, because pagers don't have transmitter hardware. Unlike a cellphone, a pager can not be located by the network. A cellphone can be located to within a few hundred yards at worst, but typically much more closely. (Even in rural areas with few towers. Look up "timing advance" in the GSM specification.)

    22. Re:News to me by Acidangl · · Score: 1

      I'm in rural Wyoming. SMS is unreliable.

      Delays, messages just don't show up many times. Its not strange for a text message to show up several hours later.

      --
      I'm a cucumber
    23. Re:News to me by CornMaster · · Score: 1

      My experience with Cell Phones/Pagers breaks down like this:
      1) Had a cell phone in 2000-2001 when living in Florida. Mainly because we lived out in the country and had crappy cars that would break a lot. I actually do not like Cell Phones.
      2) Moved back to Canada and got a pager in 2002-2003. Mainly because I didn't want people calling me at all hours. They would page me, and I'd respond when I felt like it/if it was important. This also allowed me to be available for work, but not too available for work.
      3) I got a Blackberry this year from work. Mainly to keep up on emails and server notifications that go out via email. The cell phone part of it rarely gets used as I still don't like cell phones.

      Not that anyone really cares about my usage, just thought I'd counter the 'no one uses pagers outside the US comment'. And I was also a end consumer who bought a pager, as opposed to work giving me a pager to be on call and such. Which is also something you don't see all that often. The pager allowed people to contact me in emergencies, but was much cheaper then a cell phone, and far less annoying.

    24. Re:News to me by operagost · · Score: 1

      Frankly, paging is now less reliable than SMS from my experience. If your pager doesn't receive a page, it's gone; whereas, if an SMS is delayed, at least it will be resent once your phone is within range of the network. My business unit still uses pagers for on-call, although we have advocating cell phones for some time because they don't even cost any more.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    25. Re:News to me by operagost · · Score: 1

      That's why when I finally convince my superiors to switch from pagers to cell phones, I intend to simply use the messaging system to send text messages to the phones. We are not a 24-hour shop, so answering live calls from customers is not something we can support at this time.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    26. Re:News to me by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've never met anyone who had a pager, I've never seen a pager in real life or heard of anyone using one outside the US.

      Your experience must be limited to geographical areas with pervasive cell network coverage.

      I live in an area of NH with moderate coverage, but prefer to head up to the mountains for R&R. But I'm on-call, so I carry a pager, it works nearly everywhere (cell phone start working again well above tree-line).

      I use procmail to duplicate messages to pager + SMS - between the two coverage is nearly 100%.

      Pager is $15mo for alpha paging (longer messages than SMS) and my pager (Motorola design made in China) runs about two months on a AA. It will give me a warning about the battery a few days before it gets really low, and then beep at me annoyingly for a couple days before the battery is dead.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    27. Re:News to me by SydShamino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have a pager as a workplace emergency responder. I too have the messages sent as text to my (private) cell phone, and I receive them as a work email.

      In general my phone and the email arrive simultaneously, followed about a minute later by the pager.

      That said, at least once the phone text message stopped working when my cell phone provider changed something. At our last ERT group meeting last week, when we did a test page, at least two members did not get the texts (including one who had the week prior during an actual emergency). He was on AT someone just next to him also on AT&T got the page.

      Ultimately, we have a big team and could probably afford a few members missing the texts if we switched away from pagers entirely. However, after-hours emergencies are triggered by the security company rather than the building receptionists, and the third-party security company's system can only send numeric mass pages, not emails, so we can't switch.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    28. Re:News to me by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are no dead zones

      Not true. They're RF devices and suffer the same limitations as any other radio receiver. With most pagers, they are not bidirectional and so if you are in a dead zone the person sending the message does not get any notification that the delivery failed or was delayed.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    29. Re:News to me by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      SMS is more reliable in this sense than a pager message. If a receiving mobile is out of radio range then it will be buffered for retransmit. Pagers are receive-only devices and don't send acknowledgements, so if they are out of range when the message is sent the message is permanently lost. My father used to have a pager but his company switched to sending SMS because at least then he'd get messages late, while previously he would sometimes never get them.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    30. Re:News to me by beuges · · Score: 1

      The problems you experienced at new years are because of network congestion, and that can happen at other times as well. I sent my girlfriend an SMS last Tuesday at lunch time and it only arrived on Friday or Saturday night. Cellular networks occasionally have problems which could lead to SMSs being delayed. While you might be used to SMSs arriving instantly, they very often do not.

    31. Re:News to me by DarrenBaker · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh. You're THAT guy.

    32. Re:News to me by neoform · · Score: 1

      Pagers still exist?

      Uhh, this is data from 8 years ago.

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    33. Re:News to me by WGFCrafty · · Score: 1

      Also in a medical context there can be one "emergency pager."

      On certain days, my father would always have a pager with him because different psychologists took the same pager home on different days.

      This made one contact number which would always wake someone qualified to help in an emergency.

      I have no idea how many times I saw my dad stop dinner to go to the nearest payphone (mainly before the widespread use of cell phones, mind you, although this system is still used) to check to make sure the latest and most psychotic patients weren't endangering themselves or others. Always seemed like a good system, and it always got a PhD on the line within a few minutes.

    34. Re:News to me by vegiVamp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everywhere. The protocols used don't provide for guaranteed delivery.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    35. Re:News to me by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Just to add to this, a lot of EMS services here in North America use this because newer pagers can include the EMS TONE system for responses. Including in vibrate mode(using pulses and buzzes) if you're at a conference inside a building and you have to have the pager on, but tone off.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    36. Re:News to me by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      There *are* dead zones, but far less, ime.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    37. Re:News to me by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Funny

      Just put it on vibrate and leave it resting on your crotch. I guarantee you will wake up happy.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    38. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      London. I'm not sure whether we're calling the England the third world these days, but texts are sometimes ( possibly about 2% of them ) delayed 10-15mins for me. It's not unusual for someone to arrive late at work before their text explanation sent earlier.

      Several people above have explained that industries which rely on being able to communicate with their staff instantly still choose to use paging over text messaging. Your vaunted personal experience with Argos's fine shopping service notwithstanding, I'm tempted to take information from people with direct experience of a delayed message costing lives.

    39. Re:News to me by Rycross · · Score: 1

      I'm wearing a pager right now. When our engineers are on-call, we get pagers to wear to notify us of any problems. The pagers tend to be more reliable than cell phones. I can get a signal in places where my phone has no bars.

    40. Re:News to me by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      The biggest delay I have seen was about 2 hours. I sent the message on January 1st 00:00 and the recipient received it around 02:00 the same night. Though sometimes the messages are lost on the same day, but during the rest 364 days of the year they arrive almost instantly.

      Usually SMS arrives within a few seconds and I can also choose to receive a confirmation that the SMS was delivered.

    41. Re:News to me by stumblingblock · · Score: 1

      Once upon a time, I had a landline telephone answering machine that would send a message to my pager letting me know what phone numbers had called. Pretty useful in a pre-cellphone world. But pagers were mostly used by pimps and dealers to assist trade I guess. Obsolete. I tried to get a replacement when I lost mine, and the company couldn't supply one.

    42. Re:News to me by LBt1st · · Score: 1

      I've seen the same in BFE NorCal. Although it was typically when sending between two different networks.

    43. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used a pager when I worked at a nuclear plant three years ago. It was too noisy to talk on a cell phone in the turbine hall (and the company was probably too cheap to buy us cell phones anyways, preferring to give those to managers and senior engineers), so they gave us pagers which we set to vibrate when a page came through. If it went off then I'd just walk to a quiet area of the plant and return the call.

    44. Re:News to me by DavittJPotter · · Score: 1

      Amen. I work in Sundance, WY, and I've had people PISSED because I didn't respond to their text. I've had them show up DAYS later (yay Alltel).

      Guess that's the penalty for living in WY. :)

      --
      "If there's hope, it lies in the proles..."
    45. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pagers can be more reliable than TM.

      There's something more reliable than Transcendental Meditation?

    46. Re:News to me by baudbarf · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you've never used MetroPCS in northern California.

      --
      You can run but you can't hide, except, apparently, along the Afghan-Pakistani border.
    47. Re:News to me by Albanach · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While you might be used to SMSs arriving instantly, they very often do not.

      This, too, seems to be a peculiarly US problem. I've heard of many many more lost and delayed SMSs in the US than in Europe. Perhaps that's because Europe has been making significant use of text messaging for far longer, so the systems there are now more reliable?

      Perhaps US users just have lower expectations, so cell networks can get away with such things?

    48. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed, another side effect of the dead zone with a two way pager is the same page will come to the pager multiple times at random time intervals. It makes it confusing because you don't know if the person paged you again or if it was a repeat. I've been burned both way with that, I've called clients an hour later when they were sleeping and I've ignored what I thought were repeats missing an attempt by a client to contact me. Both times I had to explain myself by comparing my house location on Google maps to the Skytel coverage map to my boss and the client. I thought it was odd that people really thought that a pager just worked everywhere. What made the whole thing even more frustrating was every time I was on call I explained to everyone that it did not work at my house and had the emails to prove I had told them.

    49. Re:News to me by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      Obviously didn't work in IT in the early '90s. I did, and pagers were de-facto office-wear.

      Of course, once cellphones started to become popular (I remember my first Motorola StarTac... that was an awesome phone), a bunch of drunk IT guys at a local pub could entertain themselves for hours by lining their pagers up at one end of a table with a slight lean and constantly calling them. Vibrating pager races were always a great way to decide who bought the next round.

      Yes, this was in East London :)

    50. Re:News to me by datapharmer · · Score: 1

      Or perhaps just a college town. Ever tried to send a text message while standing near a major stadium on a gameday? I have had sms messages delayed for hours or flat out be lost completely. I have talked with others on different services who have all also experienced similar issues. I have t-mobile and my messages tend to be dropped, while my girlfriend had verizon and hers tended to arrive several days late, which has caused all sorts of confusion.

      --
      Get a web developer
    51. Re:News to me by Zippy_wonderslug · · Score: 1

      Columbus OH. 25 minutes delay between send and receive.

      Not all the time, but often enough that we do not use it for priority tickets

    52. Re:News to me by omnichad · · Score: 1

      And your microwaved sperm would wake up dead.

    53. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will be popular again soon. Technology is cyclical.

    54. Re:News to me by Hatta · · Score: 1

      So it's a win-win.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    55. Re:News to me by magwm · · Score: 1

      nope, here in europe (northern Italy) often text messages arrive hours late. And many events (concerts, demonstrations, feasts, you name it) interfere with sms delivery. It is true that it depends much on the carrier and if the message is being sent between two carriers. vodafone-tim is a bad pair.

      that said, I've never seen a pager, too...
      my 2€cts

    56. Re:News to me by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      I've had text messages sent between by cell phone and my wife be delayed by over an hour ... sometimes I've used IM software to talk to her for a while and she's gotten the text message while we're conversing via IM. We use different phone providers, so that is probably part of the issue.

      I've laso had to stick timestamps on various alerts I send out at work because I've found that sometimes the alert is delayed at some point for as long as 30 minutes. Although for some of these alerts I suspect the outgoing mail server or mail->SMS gateway rather than SMS itself.

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    57. Re:News to me by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      They did in 2001: they were critical to both technical leaders of complex systems as a more reliable tool than a cell phone, and were a supported feature of many cell phones of the time. Many of those messages were probably to the fancy cell phones popular to sales types of the time. Also, crashing systems and their entire networks going offline probably generated many thousands of text messages to particular managers for the single event "our network was just cut at one of our core connections".

    58. Re:News to me by binary+paladin · · Score: 1

      I don't know if I had the same phone, but I had an old LG with that kind of ringer. It was crazy loud!

    59. Re:News to me by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Everywhere. The protocols used don't provide for guaranteed delivery.

      What? Are you talking about pagers now??

      SMS are always deliveried, if it can't be delivered now it is buffered and sent at first opportunity. The actually reliability depends on what you demand of your provider. The protocol has error-detection, acknowledgement, retransmission and offline storage.

      Pagers on the other hand have no ability to acknowledge or ask for retransmision, which means any error is a loss of message and there is nothing that can be done about it, because the protocol and hardware does not have the capability.

    60. Re:News to me by groslyunderpaid · · Score: 1

      On November 1st I received a SMS at 1:01am but my friend didn't send it until 1:59am...

    61. Re:News to me by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Cellphone is good though if you want to contact somebody in an emergency. From that point of view (and of current price realities - 20 Euro for cheapest cellphone (quite sturdy and with very long battery life) + few Euro for prepaid SIM card and recharge that keeps it alive for a year) there's not much reason NOT to have a cellphone... (hint: you can always turn it off if you feel like it)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    62. Re:News to me by multisync · · Score: 1

      There *are* dead zones, but far less, ime.

      Mine too. Also, the ones we use run for weeks on a single double A battery (increasing the likelihood the device will actually be on and ready to receive that urgent message).

      And there's just not much to go wrong with them. Response time is too critical for the business I'm in to trust it to a device that's trying to be a cel phone, mp3 player, camera, game machine, texting device, personal planner, web browser and GPS all at once.

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    63. Re:News to me by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      Is this (the cell phone network) another series of tubes? Can it too be clogged? Quick, somebody get Ted Stevens!

      --
      $ make available
    64. Re:News to me by Evets · · Score: 1

      I am occasionally responsible for troubleshooting paging in an enterprise environment in Northern California. The enterprise works with several telco vendors to support a wide variety of end-user cell phones.

      Some telco vendors are extraordinarily helpful and dedicate staff to help track down issues. Others are completely blind and offer zero support.

      We run into instances of SMS messages not being received, or being received after a long delay at least a few times a month. We send roughly 1000 messages a day.

      Support is getting better, reliability is getting better, but problems still occur with regularity.

    65. Re:News to me by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      And even there it changes. Dual SIM card phones and a private GSM networks are replacing it.

      --
      Here be signatures
    66. Re:News to me by sznupi · · Score: 1

      ...can only send numeric mass pages, not emails...

      Though "numeric mass pages" is more fitting to...text messages/SMS, no? ;) (and anyway, one would think that what you describe shouldn't be much of a problem; SMS has this nice feature of confirmation of delivery)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    67. Re:News to me by pluther · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's just the opposite of my experience.

      Several years ago I was working on a contract where I was frequently on call, and carried a pager.

      After a while, they upgraded my responsibilities, and decided that the calls I would be answering after hours were too important to allow delays and issued me a cell phone.

      The main difference is that when you call someone on the cell phone, you know immediately if they've gotten the call - with a pager, there's no feedback until the person locates a phone and calls you back. So you don't know if the person got your page and will be calling you back soon, or if you should escalate to the next person on the list.

      Communication with a cell phone is just about as reliable, and always faster.

      Oh, yeah, and you can call from any phone. See, in addition to SMS, many cell phones also allow voice communication.

      --
      If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
    68. Re:News to me by w0mprat · · Score: 1

      SMS certainly is unreliable. One has to ask, just is it that 160 bytes gets delayed for any noticable length oftime at all on a 21st century comunications network, and we tolerate paying actual money to send these?

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    69. Re:News to me by antdude · · Score: 1

      Doctors still use them too. :/

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    70. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are those doctors outside of the medical community?

    71. Re:News to me by SpaceCadets · · Score: 1

      In Australia, the SES (State Emergency Service) still uses them – at least they did three years ago. This might be Victoria only, but when I was a member we were issued with them. FYI, the SES do things like search / rescue, vehicle extractions in accidents, and storm damage ‘clean up’.

    72. Re:News to me by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, most emergency services aren't standard pagers. Standard pagers broadcast via satellite or terrestrial towers. Emergency pagers receive broadcasts from the agency itself; there's no third party involved.

      I'm in EMS. This is how it works for us, and every EMS/fire person I've ever spoken to - but it may not be universal.

      --
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    73. Re:News to me by BlueWaterBaboonFarm · · Score: 1

      Where I live (BC, Canada) a lot of drug dealers use them for privacy reasons.

    74. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's hilarious trying to SMS on New Years Eve.

      ME: *sends "HAPPY NEW YEARS" to someone*
      SOMEONE: *receives SMS 5 hours later*

    75. Re:News to me by Cal27 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how often this happens, as it only happened to me once, but text messages can be delivered to the wrong number.

    76. Re:News to me by tuxicle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Pagers operate at a lower frequency than cell phones, the likelihood of a dead zone is lower.

    77. Re:News to me by ajlisows · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say it is many times cheaper than a fixed phone. I think the cheapest actual cell phone plans are probably in the $30 range (not including pay as you go). When I had DSL for a short time I couldn't convince them that I didn't need phone service. I obviously opted for the cheapest phone service which cost about $12/month.

    78. Re:News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mobile phones do not interfere with ANY medical equipment. If a mobile phone interferes with a piece of equipment in a hospital, it doesn't pass audit to begin with so it's not even a real piece of medical equipment.

      Obviously you wouldn't take a mobile phone with you into an active mri or xray but for most part, "OMG TURN OFF THAT PHONE IT WILL BLOW UP THE HOSPITAL" is a bs fed to people who dont know better, by people who don't know better.

      - techie in a hospital.

    79. Re:News to me by passion · · Score: 1

      A) this is 2001 you're talking about (8 years ago)

      B) I know that lots of IT personnel wear pagers since they need to receive one-way messages sent by a machine to report downtime, and you don't really need to respond with "OK, hang on - I'm on my way!"

      --
      - passion
    80. Re:News to me by vegiVamp · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm clueless as to how pagers work, but SMS does not have guaranteed delivery.

      Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS#GSM

      "Message delivery is best effort, so there are no guarantees that a message will actually be delivered to its recipient and delay or complete loss of a message is not uncommon, particularly when sending between networks."

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    81. Re:News to me by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Not just IT - they're used for all sorts of standby positions, from search-and-rescue crews to base defense teams. If an emergency comes up it's much easier to fire off a bunch of identical pager notifications than it is to try and reach each person by phone.

    82. Re:News to me by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      While you might be used to SMSs arriving instantly, they very often do not.

      This, too, seems to be a peculiarly US problem. I've heard of many many more lost and delayed SMSs in the US than in Europe. Perhaps that's because Europe has been making significant use of text messaging for far longer, so the systems there are now more reliable?

      Perhaps US users just have lower expectations, so cell networks can get away with such things?

      Certainly Europe has been using SMS in particular and GSM in general for considerably longer than the USA, but I suspect that there is another significant complicating factor - AIUI, in the US the cost of an SMS falls on the recipient, not on the sender. There was a lot of fuss about this one or two elections ago when one or other or all three of the ultra-right wing candidates started stealing from millions of their potential voters by sending out masses of SMS messages. I can't remember if they were trying to credit their own candidate, or to discredit their opponents, buy I do recall there was a lot of complaint about it.
      Actually, in Europe this can happen too, if a message goes between two service providers who don't have appropriate billing arrangements. But I can't recall that having happened for a number of years now.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    83. Re:News to me by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      This, too, seems to be a peculiarly US problem.

      Not entirely. We used to use an Orange Pay As You Go mobile as a pager to receive text messages from our server monitoring software. This seemed to work fine for a while, then all of a sudden the delay in us receiving the text messages became astronomical. This was immediately apparent when a server crashed during core office hours since we heard the audible alert in the office, resolved the problem and then 3 hours or something later the support phone bleeped on someone's desk with the alert we should have received hours before. We solved this by moving to a different phone company and everything was fine.

      This is on the UK's most popular network in an office in the middle of London. The only way to be sure an SMS gets somewhere on time is to request an SMS delivery notification when you send the message, that way you at least get a notification when the network hands the SMS off to the receiving phone. This can be very handy for telling when someone turns their phone on, since the phone will immediately receive any queued SMS from the network and acknowledge receipt to the sender.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    84. Re:News to me by wickedskaman · · Score: 0

      ... like, say, text messaging?

      --
      Sand's overrated... it's just tiny little rocks.
    85. Re:News to me by bram · · Score: 1

      That rule is for people that are to dumb to think of not disturbing other people with their constant texting, beeping and ringtone picking.

      It's already bad enough when you're feeling good. Imagine how sick people must feel.

      --
      People using html in email should be shot.
  2. So much raw data by Shrike82 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every conspircay theorist in the world just simultaneously orgasmed. All those messages to pick through; I'm sure they'll be able to prove it was the US Government/Al-Qaeda/Joseph Fritzel/The Cookie Monster/Scientologists all along.

    --
    You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
    1. Re:So much raw data by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      No, you know very well that the government and the wikileaks illuminati cleaned it beforehand...

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    2. Re:So much raw data by megamerican · · Score: 5, Informative

      Every conspircay theorist in the world just simultaneously orgasmed. All those messages to pick through; I'm sure they'll be able to prove it was the US Government/Al-Qaeda/Joseph Fritzel/The Cookie Monster/Scientologists all along.

      The NORAD tapes, which were released long ago proved that there was a conspiracy by The Pentagon to lie to the 9/11 Commission and the American people. The 9/11 Commission had a closed meeting deciding whether or not to charge Air Force officials with perjury but chose not to because "it wouldn't be good for the country."

      John Farmer, senior counsel on the 9/11 Commission said, "at some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened [during 9/11]"

      6 of the 10 Commissioners have come out saying that they were lied to and that the report is not accurate.
      http://patriotsquestion911.com/

      “More than one-quarter of all footnotes in the 9/11 Report refer to CIA interrogations of al Qaeda operatives subjected to the now-controversial interrogation techniques,” writes former NBC producer Robert Windrem in The Daily Beast. “In fact, information derived from the interrogations was central to the 9/11 Report’s most critical chapters, those on the planning and execution of the attacks.”

      We've been lied to about 9/11 from day one. It needs to be investigated further. If 6 out of the 10 Commissioners are distancing themselves from the report by saying they were lied to something isn't right. Burying your head deeper into the sand won't help.

      --
      If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
    3. Re:So much raw data by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You scared me for a second with your username. I thought I had posted that without even realizing it.

    4. Re:So much raw data by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If there was a conspiracy to find about 9/11, what do you think it would turn out to be?

      A. A concerted effort by the Government and Department of Defence, and related military bodies conspiring together to launch an attack on the US people in order to further the aims of the Government and selected private corporations and individuals.

      Or...

      B. A concerted effort by members of the Government and Department of Defence, and related military bodies to cover up their own inadequecies in being able to deal with an attack by a small number of persons against several targets using simplistic weapons, causing a massive over reaction over the next few years, and resulting in the inability of the largest military might in the world to subdue a country that has barely hit the 19th Century.

      Yes, there probably was a lie surrounding 9/11, but its almost certainly not the juicy one people are fantasising about...

    5. Re:So much raw data by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      fnord.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    6. Re:So much raw data by SloppySevenths · · Score: 1

      You can tell it's been censored. There clearly aren't enough messages in the vein: "Hey baby, let's meet in the copy room."

    7. Re:So much raw data by PinkyDead · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Can't I have both?

      --
      Genesis 1:32 And God typed :wq!
    8. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No matter how many times you cut and paste that into message boards, no one cares. No one will ever care. And deep in your narcissistic heart, you know that bothers you way more than any nonsensical "conspiracy."

    9. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Follow the money....

      If you wanted the USA to have the tallest building in the world again, where would you put it? Would you build it in some developing city that couldn't support the occupancy of the building to make money? Montgomery Alabama? Little Rock Arkansas? No....

      You would build it in the most populace cities. The largest cities that can support that kind of building and still make money off of it are all out of land. So, what is someone to do... Knock down some of the existing buildings and build a bigger one. Do you know what the cost would be to bring down an existing building in New York? One can only imagine. Do you know what it would take to get it approved through the city council?

      Come up with some terror threat, and bring down the buildings. No fussing with all the red tape. Jesse Ventura is very vocal in saying that with all his demolition experience in the Navy Seals, to him the buildings were detonated.

      Do you know how extremely hard it is to bring down a building completely vertical? Just watching some of the shows on the Discovery channel will tell you that. If that were the case, demolition crews from now on would be using airplanes instead of the weeks if not months of preparing a building to come down.

      So, now there is space in the most populated city in the US to build the worlds tallest building, the American public even get to foot the bill for building it and the American Government gets the war in Iraq that they have been hoping for even if it is the longest stretch ever to connect the two.

      Also to me there has to be something magic about an airplane disappearing into a 6 foot wide hole in the pentagon.

      If this was nothing but terrorism, the three buildings would have been built back by now 8 years later. Atleast one of them.

    10. Re:So much raw data by secretcurse · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Dude, you're trying to inject logic into a discussion with a truther. You're going to get better results trying to move a building with your forehead...

      --
      I'm using all of my mod points to mod ancient memes down. Please join me.
    11. Re:So much raw data by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Option B sounds pretty plausible. It also sounds like something that should be properly investigate. Option A sounds possible, although requires a lot more competence from the DoD than I would expect, and should probably be investigated just in case it is true.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:So much raw data by labradore · · Score: 1
      "When errors can be attributed to incompetence or malice, it's always more likely to be the former." While this is generally true, it is important to take things in context. 9/11 started two wars. The average cost of those wars for the last 8 years far has been about a quarter of a million dollars PER MINUTE. That is a total of almost $1 Trillion SO FAR. You don't cover up mistakes by making bigger, outrageously expensive, ones. That is money that came from you and me and went into the pockets of the politically connected. It is money that got sucked out of the economy and slowed growth for the past 8 years, contributed to the economic crash and will weigh even more heavily as debt that must be paid off while we try to grow out of a depression. It's going to reduce the quality of life for our kids and worst of all it was used to murder hundreds of thousands of innocents and destroy the lives of millions both here and abroad. The military didn't want to go to war. No generals or commanders thought this was a good idea. Their duty to serve overrides the instinct to do what's right. Yes, military leadership are political animals, but they volunteered to serve and by that virtue, the armed forces filters out most of the truly bad people.

      That kind of cash flow isn't overreaction. It's greed. Wake up. We're slaves. It sucks. Are you going to just pretend it didn't happen or help enlighten the rest of the flock so that we can finally do something about it?

    13. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mod you troll and laugh, because I know you'll just think I'm part of the conspiracy too.

    14. Re:So much raw data by spookymonster · · Score: 1

      In what context were these quotes made? What was the nature of the lies? Were they covering up their own incompetent response (like, say, the FAA taking too long to contact NORAD)? Or were they of a much larger scope (like trying to hide a missile attack on the pentagon)? Quite a bit of difference between those two...

      --
      - Despite popular opinion, I am not perfect.
    15. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If you think we know everything about what happened at 9/11 you're just gullable, maybe those people you so easily call nutters just want some good answers. What about those hijackers that turned up alive afterwards, the investigation that was closed from higher up, the third building that crashed in (seemingly unrelated accident? structural faults exposed by the other buildings crashing? yeah right), the so-called plane debris at the pentagon, the almost immediate insistence to attack Afghanistan before any investigation even had occurred, and so on. There's a big stink around the whole thing which will never be cleared up, just like the JFK assassination, and it probably just is the government covering up again. (But don't tell them I told you this!)

    16. Re:So much raw data by brxndxn · · Score: 1

      The government reaction after 9/11 fits exactly along the lines of A. It increased spending, created new bureaucracy, curtailed civil liberties, and ignored the huge issues facing government at the time (ie.. $2.3trillion unaccounted for at the Pentagon on 9/10/01).

      Further, the reaction of government to ignore any realistic discussion about the events of 9/11 looks damning.

      --
      --- We need more Ron Paul!
    17. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      For one thing, I can tell you that flight 93 was not brought down by terrorists. A friend of mine works at Center, and he told me that the air force shot down flight 93. You don't get a nine mile debris trail from a turnover crash. It was blown apart at high altitude.

      The official story is probably just patriotic propaganda.

      Don't know anything about the rest of the 9/11 attacks. Would be pretty hard to hide incriminating evidence though. Contrary to popular belief, people don't just follow orders and do what they're told. If there was evidence of government collusion with the terrorists, it would have shown up by now. People talk.

    18. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      thats a good point I never thought of. Perhaps some in Government could have allowed the attack to go forward assuming some minor impact, and decent response, that would justify all the domestic spy programs, etc they wanted. But when it was way more successful than anyone (even Bin Ladden) could have imagined, and still wasn't handled well, no choice but cover-up mode.

    19. Re:So much raw data by Zombywuf · · Score: 1

      Actually making a much bigger more expensive mistake is a great way of covering up a smaller one. The bigger and more expensive the mistake the more people are likely to be involved, once enough people are involved there's no one left to hold anyone accountable.

      It's a fairly common pattern to see in business, it's better to lead a $100 million failure than a $10 thousand dollar success. The latter marks you out as an unimportant small fry, the former marks you a person of great prestige.

      --
      If you can read this you've gone too far.
    20. Re:So much raw data by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      US Government/Al-Qaeda/Joseph Fritzel/The Cookie Monster/Scientologists all along.

      That's ridiculous! Everyone knows it Elmo all along!

    21. Re:So much raw data by khallow · · Score: 0, Troll

      You don't get a nine mile debris trail from a turnover crash.It was blown apart at high altitude.

      The airplane was undergoing violent maneuvers prior to the crash (which would have thrown off parts of the plane) and apparently started at 40,000 feet. Nine miles isn't much considering what was happening.

    22. Re:So much raw data by Stupid+McStupidson · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's mostly because you have a gross misunderstanding of how the military works. When something gets fucked up, somebody is responsible for the fuck up. While that statement at first makes you say, "Well, duh!" you need to understand how it functions in the military. That statement is an absolute truth. There are no "whoops, nobody's fault" moments in the military. If something fucked up, SOMEBODY fucked up, and therefore, SOMEBODY will pay. Usually an officer is in charge, a relatively minor fuck up might be a slap on the wrist. A moderate fuck up, or a string of minor ones will result in a bad evaluation report which will prevent your promotion, and essentially make you a dead man walking. Major fuck ups are the end of your career. There isn't a chart somewhere delineating all the fuck-up degrees, but I'm sure as they watched iconic building collapsing in flames, they assumed it was pretty major. This results in many waves of ass-covering, as really major fuck ups tend to take out swaths of officers and NCO's. To a third party observer, the ass covering to save yourself from the "SOMEBODY will pay" maxim probably seems sinister..as if they were hiding something. But in reality, they are just trying to hide what they assume to be their vulnerable behinds.

    23. Re:So much raw data by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Informative

      Stop it. Just stop it. Not only are you a coward by posting anonymously, but the nine mile debris field has been debunked REPEATEDLY, including by police officers on the scene.

      The nine mile debris field consisted of bits of paper which may or may not have been from the flight when it impacted in the field.

      Further, that nine mile figure is bogus. People used MapQuest to find the distance between the crash site and the supposed debris field. Sure, nine miles if you drive by road, but roughly 2.5 miles in a straight line.

      The debris field WAS NOT composed of engine parts, seats, body parts or anything else heavier than a piece of paper.

      Your friend is also an idiot as there are nearly a dozen eyewitnesses to the plane coming down, some of which watched the plane, intact, nose dive into the ground. Had the plane been shot down, it would have displayed some semblance of damage including smoke and/or fire trailing from it. Not one eyewitness described seeing anything of the sort.

      End of story, full stop.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    24. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zomg, there's a message saying "2001-09-11 12:35:03 Arch [0895403] C ALPHA THIS IS A TEST PERIODIC PAGE SEQUENTIAL NUMBER 7284". 2 8 and 4!! Those are all powers of 2! But the 7 isn't That is proof that a secret governement orginazation is behind it!

    25. Re:So much raw data by Digital+Autumn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's like this was crafted to be the most ludicrous example of a conspiracy theory ever. The whole thing was because someone wanted the U.S. to have the tallest building in the world??? Using Jesse Ventura as expert testimony?? I'm presuming this was all meant as an ironic example of conspiracy thinking. There's conspiracy theories out there can make you stop and go hmm, it makes good sense. Then there's this one. I can just see Cheney rubbing his hands, an evil glint in his eye. "Which country will have the tallest building now?! Mwa ha ha ha."

    26. Re:So much raw data by Digital+Autumn · · Score: 1

      The military didn't want to go to war. No generals or commanders thought this was a good idea. Their duty to serve overrides the instinct to do what's right. Yes, military leadership are political animals, but they volunteered to serve and by that virtue, the armed forces filters out most of the truly bad people.

      I'm not sure about what your whole point is, but this seems like a rather odd comment. Why would you assume that no generals or commanders wanted to go to war? What evidence do you have for such a bold statement? And what in the world would lead you to think that voluntary service somehow weeds out "bad people."? It seems entirely possible that a "bad person", whatever that is, would be glad to sign up to get to shoot people, doesn't it?

    27. Re:So much raw data by Digital+Autumn · · Score: 1

      Arch ... arch ... there's an arch in France!!! A big one! Ooh, I knew I hated the French for a reason.

    28. Re:So much raw data by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      The wings are easy to damage, you just need negative Gs. They do support the entire weight of the aircraft, thats true, but they are designed to support it when the aircraft is upright, with the force fo gravity pulling it towards the underside of the wings.

      The aircraft may be designed for 1.6Gs positive, and 0.6 negative, meaning that simply rolling the aircraft inverted already puts it over its stress limit. Forcing the aircraft into a dive from level flight in a hurry could easily do the damage.

      The same is true for most of the rest of the aircraft. Its designed to hold together in normal flight operations, not if something is throwing the control yolk all over the place.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    29. Re:So much raw data by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I know we're talking *about* America here, but if you had your computer is set up with UK English, defense would have the red underline. Both are "correct English," but only one is the name of the government entity.

    30. Re:So much raw data by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A friend of mine works at Center, and he told me that the air force shot down flight 93.

      No he doesn't. Its not called 'Center' In the air pilots refer the the control center they are currently being directed by as 'center' for radio purposes, but thats where it ends.

      There isn't one 'center'. There are several around the country for handling that general area of the country, they all have names, employees don't refer to themselves as 'working at Center' They work at something like the Air Traffic Control Center, or the Washington ATRCC so people would actually know wtf they are talking about.

      Stop watching bad movies and air emergency on discovery channel and thinking you know anything about how it works in the real world.

      Your story is probably just crap made up by a 15 year old.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    31. Re:So much raw data by khallow · · Score: 1

      Air pressure changes and buffeting forces wouldn't be enough, even in a bad spiral. I think the only times I've seen wings break away were in water crashes, and then only as the plane entered the water. Though I've only seen five crashes (two water; one with moderate wing damage), so it doesn't give the best sampling.

      Sure it would. I can't believe I have to tell someone who has experience in the area, but you're wrong. First, you've never seen a crash like Flight 93 before and I bet your "friend" hasn't either. It's not just a bad spiral but someone deliberately crashing the plane. I see no reason that forces far greater than the weight of the plane were pushing on it. The only similar example I can think of is EgyptAir Flight 990 which is alleged to have been deliberately crashed in a similar way by the first officer on duty. According to Wikipedia, under that scenario the engines were shut down and the engine on the left wing was "subsequently torn from the wing from the stress of the maneuver". The dive for that flight came from significantly lower (a bit over 20,000 feet).

      Second, why would missiles break up the plane differently? Heating seeking missiles would hit an engine, which apparently lie on the wings, leaving the fuselage just as intact as it'd be under the official crash scenario. Probably the other option would be strafing the plane itself. Again they'd probably target a more vulnerable wing.

    32. Re:So much raw data by csartanis · · Score: 1

      The only thing that really bothers me are the inconsistencies of the pentagon attack. The initial reports of what crashed there called it a military helicopter, not a passenger jumbo jet. I don't see how there could be any confusion whatsoever between the two. Even the security footage looks like a very small aircraft (and quite blurry, unfortunately.) The photographs of the pentagon shortly after impact and during the ensuing fire look more like a small commercial jet or fighter jet even would have caused that damage. What really happened there?

    33. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_uojEXJEEE

    34. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

    35. Re:So much raw data by couchslug · · Score: 1

      IAAAM. (I Am An Aircraft Mechanic.)
      Aircraft are tender, soft, and made mostly of aluminum, magnesium, and composites.

      They are rather like balloons, and don't make very large holes when they crash. Wings are crumply, with smaller parts like engine cores (not the whole turbofan, just the inner bits) and landing gear being the solid bits that survive impact.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    36. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Idiot.

      Watch www.thepentacon.com

      North of Citgo.

      Proves the lightpoles couldn't have been hit by the plane. Therefore proves the lightpoles were planted. Who would plant downed lightpoles? Who would benefit? Why would they do this? They did this because the Pentagon explosion was caused by a bomb, planted by elements with the American government. The lightpoles were planted, therefore 9/11 was not committed by muslims, therefore it was committed by the American government. Simple enough for ya?

    37. Re:So much raw data by csartanis · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I just remembered looking at photos before the collapse of the building facade and wondering why damage from the engines hitting the building wasn't apparent. Now looking at it again, the right engine probably entered the same hole as the fuselage, and the left engine created its own hole closer to the ground.

      photos random debunking crap

    38. Re:So much raw data by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1

      His spelling is fine. He's just thinking ahead to when we'd have this neat new border protection installed.

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    39. Re:So much raw data by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah right !

      I guess being a mechanic doesn't expose you to the aftermath of crashes.

    40. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... resulting in the inability of the largest military might in the world to subdue a country that has barely hit the 19th Century.

      That "inability" is simply because we're too gosh-darned nice and treating those backwards savages with kid gloves.

      If I were the one in charge of the operation to "subdue" them you can bet they'd be subdued by now. Every last single one of them.

    41. Re:So much raw data by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      "Also to me there has to be something magic about an airplane disappearing into a 6 foot wide hole in the pentagon."

      I'm hesitant to hop on conspiracy bandwagons, but this made me wonder as well. The icing on the cake was seeing the video from the Pentagon parking lot (security camera on a lamp post) that showed the Pentagon very shortly after the impact. There is one odd thing that, so far, I have yet to see ANYONE discuss.

      The impact of airliners hitting the WTC was shown to create a massive fireball of ignited fuel. Massive amounts of BLACK smoke resulted as the fuel continued to burn. Understandable. The fuel is a hydrocarbon.

      The smoke coming from the Pentagon, as shown in the video from the parking lot, was WHITE. No black smoke until much later when the building, and the objects inside, began to burn.

      What happened to all the fuel from the supposed airliner that we are told hit the Pentagon?

      The only conclusion that I can come up with is that it was not fuel, but something else, that caused the fires in the Pentagon.

      The first thing that came to mind when trying to explain the white smoke? Ever watch a rocket launch? White smoke from the burning solid fuel components.

      I'm sorry, but that video alone is enough to tell me that, at the VERY least, we were all lied to about the Pentagon. If they will lie to us about that, then I think it is entirely plausible that we could be lied to about the entire "attack".

      I find it interesting one of those pager messages mentions a helicopter striking the Pentagon(or White house). If one did, I assume it would leave black smoke as well (the fuel onboard burning). The video doesn't show black smoke. But a rocket from a helicopter would leave white smoke.

       

    42. Re:So much raw data by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      UPDATE:

      Apparently, some people HAVE noticed since I saw the video, years ago.

      This website mentions the same thing.

      http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/videoframes.html

    43. Re:So much raw data by Rebelgecko · · Score: 1

      If you think we know everything about what happened at 9/11 you're just gullable...

      You think I'm gullable?!!?!?
      I'd bet you're so gullible , you think gullable is in the dictionary!

      --
      CATS/Diebold '08- All your vote are belong to us!
    44. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leave cookie monster alone.. I happen to know he was chillin' with Colbert eating cookies!

    45. Re:So much raw data by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      How in the fuck does a comment which links to "patriotsquestion911" get modded +5 informative?

      You're lying about what the commissioners said. You need to pull your head out of your ass and look at some credible sources, instead of getting all of your misinformation from the paranoid circle-jerk which the 9/11 goof movement has become. You also need to stop pretending that you want another investigation. You don't. What you want is a witch-hunt. Any investigation which disagrees with you will simply be dismissed as another coverup. If you expect to be taken seriously, you need to stop lying, and you need to stop misrepresenting your intentions. Until then, rational people will continue to dismiss you as a dishonest crank.

    46. Re:So much raw data by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      The impact of airliners hitting the WTC was shown to create a massive fireball of ignited fuel. Massive amounts of BLACK smoke resulted as the fuel continued to burn. Understandable. The fuel is a hydrocarbon.

      The smoke coming from the Pentagon, as shown in the video from the parking lot, was WHITE. No black smoke until much later when the building, and the objects inside, began to burn.

      I guess you just answered your own question. In WTC, the plane ended up well inside the building. Of course the explosion was going to burn up stuff inside the building.

      The first thing that came to mind when trying to explain the white smoke? Ever watch a rocket launch? White smoke from the burning solid fuel components.

      LOL. It was a plane. Stop listening to insane conspiracy theories.

    47. Re:So much raw data by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      You would build it in the most populace cities. The largest cities that can support that kind of building and still make money off of it are all out of land. So, what is someone to do... Knock down some of the existing buildings and build a bigger one. Do you know what the cost would be to bring down an existing building in New York? One can only imagine. Do you know what it would take to get it approved through the city council?

      "The city council? Aaargh, city councils are impossible to deal with!! Hey, I know, let's just arrange for some terrorists to come over and blow the whole thing up. It will be easier that way!."

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    48. Re:So much raw data by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      Amen. But is it impossible that this went all the way to the top, and that Rumsfeld, Cheney and co. did some ass-covering of their own? You won't have much trouble convincing me that those people could be negligent, or even that they thought a little terrorism could be useful for their plan of invading Iraq.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    49. Re:So much raw data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Every conspircay theorist in the world just simultaneously orgasmed. All those messages to pick through; I'm sure they'll be able to prove it was the US Government/Al-Qaeda/Joseph Fritzel/The Cookie Monster/Scientologists all along."

      Any questions about conspiracy, just youtube building 7's collapse. Unless you're blind and stupid you can see something very questionable occurred.

  3. Conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First the global warming emails, and now this? What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

  4. Lizards? by jDeepbeep · · Score: 4, Informative

    What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

    Yes.

    --
    Reply to That ||
    1. Re:Lizards? by duguk · · Score: 5, Funny

      What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

      Yes.

      Think you're mistaken; they've only got four feet.

    2. Re:Lizards? by qazsedcft · · Score: 3, Funny

      Did you even click that link? The first paragraph of the text states that they grow to an average length of 2 to 3 metres (6.6 to 9.8 ft). Check the pictures if you don't believe it.

    3. Re:Lizards? by amstrad · · Score: 2, Informative

      Woosh! Something just flew over your head.

    4. Re:Lizards? by longhairedgnome · · Score: 0

      The sound of four lizard feet

      --
      GENERATION O98346: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and remove a random number from the generation. T
    5. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the may grow to that length, but they still only have four feet.

    6. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you even read his post? You may want to read it again... If you are going to correct someone at least don't be stupid about it =/.

    7. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

      Yes.

      Think you're mistaken; they've only got four feet.

      These lizards are also known as the triple-dicked lizards for good reason. So... the total count is 7.

    8. Re:Lizards? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      I don't think he said... what... you... Sweet baby jeebus, man. I can't even bring myself to mock you. It'd be like throwing a basketball to a paraplegic.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    9. Re:Lizards? by duguk · · Score: 1

      What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

      Yes.

      Think you're mistaken; they've only got four feet.

      These lizards are also known as the triple-dicked lizards for good reason. So... the total count is 7.

      If your penis looks like a foot, you've got problems. If it is a foot then, uh, my email address is on my profile =)

    10. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fail to see the correlation between mocking this man and wheelchair basketball

    11. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What next 7 foot lizards are real now?

      Yes.

      Think you're mistaken; they've only got four feet.

      The Komodo dragon (Varanus komodoensis) is a species of lizard that inhabits the islands of Komodo, Rinca, Flores, and Gili Motang in Indonesia.[3] A member of the monitor lizard family (Varanidae), it is the largest living species of lizard, growing to an average length of 2 to 3 metres (6.6 to 9.8 ft) ols and weighing around 70 kilograms (150 lb). Their unusual size is attributed to island gigantism, since there are no other carnivorous animals to fill the niche on the islands where they live; their large size is also explained by the Komodo dragon's low metabolic rate.[4][5] As a result of their size, these lizards dominate the ecosystems in which they live.[6] Although Komodo dragons eat mostly carrion, they will also hunt and ambush prey including invertebrates, birds, and mammals.
      --Directly from Wikipedia. ((http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_dragon))

    12. Re:Lizards? by SOdhner · · Score: 1

      It'd be like throwing a basketball to a paraplegic.

      Pssst! You probably meant QUADriplegic. Generally speaking, paraplegics can catch basketballs just fine.

    13. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean quadrapalegic?

    14. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't just flying, it had klaxons blaring and lights flashing, the whole works

    15. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you hear that? Do you? It's coming!!

      Whoooooooooooooosh!

    16. Re:Lizards? by Nevynxxx · · Score: 1

      Wheelchair basketball you insensitive clod!

    17. Re:Lizards? by Digital+Autumn · · Score: 1

      Wait, they can fly too?!!

    18. Re:Lizards? by ginbot462 · · Score: 1

      That has to be the first use of "insensitive clod" that I've seen be accurate. Though, for full points, you would need to be paraplegic basketball player.

      --
      Atlas Shrugged : Thematic Story :: Battlefield Earth : Organized Religion
    19. Re:Lizards? by Nevynxxx · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, as far as I will go for slashdot. That is too far. :)

    20. Re:Lizards? by davidbofinger · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the "seven feet" derives from a photo like this.

    21. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    22. Re:Lizards? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      You're all half right... I meant double-amputee, but even that isn't specific.

      Analogy fail.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    23. Re:Lizards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Count with me... 1 foot, 2 feet, 3 feet, 4 feet.... there are only 4 I can see....

  5. that's nice by Darth_brooks · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sure this will lead to rational debate, as well as this information being added to our view of those tragic events as a whole and will finally lay to bed some of the misconceptions that have surrounded the events of 9/11, rather than becoming the source for thousands of snippets of information that will get used in barely contextualized, ill-thought out, and poorly worded conspiracy theories.

    Also, when you bring me my pony, make sure it's pink.

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    1. Re:that's nice by poetmatt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I imagine a whole lot of people are going to be pissed when they learn that the data was intercepted back in 2001.

    2. Re:that's nice by cowscows · · Score: 1

      The conspiracy theories are already full of thousands of snippets of stuff, this new data isn't going to change anyone's mind. People who want to believe in a conspiracy will find "proof" in whatever information they get, so it doesn't really matter what's available.

      Basically, there's already so many barely contextualized, ill-thought out, and poorly worded conspiracy theories out there that it doesn't really matter if this new data spawns a few more. I think most people have already chosen a side on the whole government conspiracy angle, and a bunch of snippets of pager text isn't going to sway anyone either way. The conspiracy nuts will have lots of fun endlessly debating all this new stuff for a few months, and everyone else will shrug their shoulders and go on with their lives.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    3. Re:that's nice by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's taken that long to redact / doctor the messages which aren't in line wi687B(R&^bv9NO CARRIER

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    4. Re:that's nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Nope. Can't be. No one would shamelessly use random sentences from random pagers in support of a conspiracy theory.

      Oh, by the way:

      2001-09-11 07:43:46 Metrocall [0956490] C ALPHA Frm: MSN Txt: President's daughter has charges dropped

    5. Re:that's nice by cowscows · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing that no one will try and do that. I'm arguing that it doesn't really matter. The people who will look at these random sentence fragments and see proof of a 9/11 conspiracy already believe it was a conspiracy. Nothing will change except that they'll have slightly more random nonsense to add to their already impressive pile of older random nonsense.

      This stuff isn't going to cause throngs of people who've already rejected or ignored the conspiracy theories to suddenly become believers.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    6. Re:that's nice by erroneus · · Score: 1

      I just love that "conspiracy theory" automatically makes anyone who thinks there is something wrong with the official story some sort of fruitcake or worse. Once upon a time, the official story was that the universe was created in a week or something like that. Once upon a time, the official story was "spontaneous generation." Once upon a time, the official story was a geocentric universe. Once upon a time, the official story was that the tooth-fairy took the tooth from under your pillow and replaced it with money. Once upon a time, the official story was that Santa Claus delivered those presents while you were sleeping.

      There have been, throughout time and experience, when official positions and stories have been wrong and some of them were shown to be intentionally deceptive. We have seen times where, at various levels, governments have lied to their own people about various things as well. None of these things should be surprising to anyone.

      There are definitely some weird things about the official story that just don't seem to work well with reality as we know it. I think it is okay to question those oddities without being labeled as a "conspiracy theorist." Jumping to unfounded conclusions, on the other hand, is a trait that could and probably should lead to the label of conspiracy theorist, but therein lies the problem. Evidence of truth is so often denied and dismissed because of faith already committed in favor of an original story or belief.

      I think we need a counter-term for conspiracy theory... one that suggests an equal level of folly for believing everything that people in positions of authority tells us.

    7. Re:that's nice by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well, wake me up when they start to vote out the politicians that authorize it.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    8. Re:that's nice by cowscows · · Score: 1

      I agree mostly with what you said. I am pretty well convinced that there were people in our government who deliberately muddled the truth and even outright lied about aspects of 9/11 in order to advance their own agendas. But that's a far cry from believing that there's some grand conspiracy to fool the world about what happened. I'm not talking about arguing over details or motives or whatever, I'm talking about people who think ridiculous things like the government remote piloting planes into the towers and then setting off explosives that they had previously planted. Those are conspiracy theory type people.

      I think that many elements in the government and elsewhere have been less than honest about the hijackers' backgrounds, motives, and training. I wish that the media and more honest people in the government would work a little harder to try to clear up some of the misconceptions and call out people who are just plain lying. But I don't think that a bunch of random text messages from the morning of the attack are going to tell us much about what really happened. It's going to be a pile of confusion, panic, and other completely unrelated messages, all taken out of context. The only valid thing that one might be able to take from reading all of that a general sense of the confusion and emotion of that day. There's just not enough meat there for someone with an objective mind to determine any real truths from. But there's plenty of little snippets that can easily be bent to fit whatever arbitrary belief an individual might be trying to reinforce for himself/herself.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    9. Re:that's nice by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of the pentagon crash video which took them like 3years to rerelease, and they did it in a different format than the camera. lul

    10. Re:that's nice by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I just love that "conspiracy theory" automatically makes anyone who thinks there is something wrong with the official story some sort of fruitcake or worse.

      I'm glad you agree!

      Once upon a time, the official story was that the universe was created in a week or something like that.

      Right. And then one day, a bunch of college dropouts made a crappy video which claimed that the universe was actually a giant conspiracy by the Illuminati, the NWO, and the Jooos. In reality, we're all living in an online world - a Matrix, if you will - while our eeeevil Zionist Space Lizard overlords harvest our true bodies for organs and nutrients. Ever since that day, we've known the TRUTH!

      There are definitely some weird things about the official story that just don't seem to work well with reality as we know it.

      It's not WHAT you question, but HOW you question it that matters. For instance, I have no problem with people questioning the theory of evolution - but when you start telling me that the Perfect Shape of the Banana proves that evolution never happened, I'm going to write you off as a complete moron. Likewise, 9/11 conspiracy theorists have shown by their actions that they are mostly either crazy, stupid, ignorant, delusional, or some combination of the four. There may be a few rational, informed, and intelligent ones out there .... but I've yet to meet any.

      I think we need a counter-term for conspiracy theory... one that suggests an equal level of folly for believing everything that people in positions of authority tells us.

      Anyone who dismisses conspiracy theorists on those grounds is every bit as stupid as the conspiracy theorists themselves ... although probably not as crazy. They're the flip side of the same coin, really: the conspiracy theorists will accept any claim, no matter how ridiculous, as long as it runs counter to conventional wisdom, while the people you're referring to will accept any claim as long as it comes from a mainstream authority figure. They have a lot in common.

  6. Good Move by carp3_noct3m · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This seems to be a really good move on the part of Wikileaks. Its one of those things, where in the digital age, that information lasts for a long time, but I think the significance here is that this data was collected within a day of the attacks. What this does is give us a clearer picture of lots of things, including emergency response methods and efficiency, the way people react to catastrophic events, and information that may have previously been unknown, and things like that. There has been a lot of controversy surrounding Sep 11. and simple data being released to the public is always a good thing. Yes, there will be both ends of the extremist section, both conspiracy theorists and their counterparts, who may try to find specific data to backup their preconceived theories, but its still a good thing. Just browsing over to the TFA and their shortened excerpt, I found one very interesting message.."WTC HAS BEEN HIT BY AN AIRPLANE AND A BOMB." This does nothing as far as credibility and in situations like that people are known to panic and see and hear things that aren't there, but regardless, it will be interesting to see where this leads. Data by itself sometimes can be useless, but in context can have implications you don't expect. My personal opinions are far to complex to list here, but people should learn how to use logic and think for themselves.

    --
    "It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
  7. Who needs to make backups anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who needs to make backups anymore? The NSA has all your data and communications stored for you. Maybe they should sell backup services to fix the budget deficit.

    1. Re:Who needs to make backups anymore? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Funny

      I tag all my posts and emails with a serial # so that if I lose any, I can just ask the NSA and by having the serial # handy, it makes their jobs all that much easier.

      (#327382)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Who needs to make backups anymore? by z0idberg · · Score: 1

      Great idea, I think I'll do the same!

      (#327382)

    3. Re:Who needs to make backups anymore? by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Hey! That's the same number I have on my luggage!

  8. Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is the point of this story on slashdot? It's not tech related

    Pagers.

  9. Self aware computer systems? by feedayeen · · Score: 5, Funny

    "computer systems sending automated messages as buildings collapse" 8:46 a.m. - "Ow, something hit me!" 8:47 a.m. - "Anyone else smell smoke?" 8:47 a.m. - "Admin has logged off" 10:28 a.m. - "System failure"

    1. Re:Self aware computer systems? by Lord+Lode · · Score: 1

      Seriously. I wonder what they mean by that? What machines really send automated messages if they feel the building in which they are located collapse?

    2. Re:Self aware computer systems? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Probably 'network failure to server A,' 'network failure to server B,' 'system is down,' 'UPS power offline'. It depends on how the server is sending the data. A lot will use email to SMS relays, which will stop working as soon as the network goes down, but some may be using built-in GSM hardware (GSM transmitters that can send SMS are pretty cheap) so that they can notify the admin if the network goes down. In this case, they will keep sending until the server is disconnected from the UPS or flattened by impact with the ground, whichever happens first.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Self aware computer systems? by rapiddescent · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, I was working at Reuters in London at the time and the first we knew of the disaster was an automated alert from our trading system saying that Merrylls and APM had gone fully offline (these types of systems very very rarely go offline). At the same moment, one of the data feeds went DR (DataScope I think) - it had its DR facility in the other tower and so only lasted a short time before going off for good.

    4. Re:Self aware computer systems? by silanea · · Score: 1

      Maybe those machines simply registered disrupted power or telco lines and sent a "Something's wrong!" message to the on-call tech slave.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    5. Re:Self aware computer systems? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    6. Re:Self aware computer systems? by Rebelgecko · · Score: 1

      2001-09-11 08:46:46 Arch [1612975] D ALPHA
      PAGE FROM lifeline: alert 8933585 ETS appl nbetpsd27.fi.gs.com ETS RTCE: - Market data inconsistent...Cantor API problem Trading system offline on nbetpsd27.fi.gs.com, run by etsuser on nbetpsd27, pid = 24277

      gs.com is the website of Goldman Sachs.
      Cantor Fitzerald is an investment company whose offices were in the World Trade Center.
      I find it pretty interesting that some of the first signs that something was wrong were occurring just a few seconds after a plane hit the WTC. It reminds me of an interesting short story (by Cory Doctorow?) about a group of sysadmins trying to keep the internet running despite global calamities.

      --
      CATS/Diebold '08- All your vote are belong to us!
    7. Re:Self aware computer systems? by omni123 · · Score: 1

      Seriously. I wonder what they mean by that? What machines really send automated messages if they feel the building in which they are located collapse?

      There's probably 100 different pages building management systems (BMS) could of sent off in the minutes following the attacks. A BMS will typically monitor power systems, lighting, HVAC, lifts/elevators, fire alarms and a whole slew of other systems that would of let out some kind of notification after the attack. The ones we use on our site break the campus in to each individual room and we get notified of a light bulb blown in Room 303 just as fast as we do 'Elevator idle between floors'.

  10. Some really touching messages, like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    2001-09-11 09:05:13 Metrocall [0902425] C ALPHA HQFPSCORP2:Backup Exec Job Failed

    That one brings a tear to my eye.

    1. Re:Some really touching messages, like by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      2001-09-11 07:44:56 Arch [1404681] C ALPHA "Operations, New|Initial Escalation|Newton Building has lost power. Computer room has lost AC and is shutting down the unix and nt boxes.

      It may be a mere thermometer, but the intelligence is really amazing. The people really planned for an unlikely event like this.

  11. It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by rbb · · Score: 4, Funny
    In this file I noticed a message that, in hindsight, is especially morbid:

    Good morning. I haven't heard from you in a while. I'll try one more time and I suppose I will take the hint if you don't page me back. Have a good day. Todd

    --
    In God We Trust, Others We Monitor
    1. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by csartanis · · Score: 1

      Realistically, there isn't much chance that the recipient was one of the victims of the attack.

    2. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by rbb · · Score: 1

      True, but that doesn't make the pager message less chilling

      --
      In God We Trust, Others We Monitor
    3. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by csartanis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This one bothers me a bit!


      2001-09-11 10:20:40 Skytel [002840776] C ALPHA Hi, I need you to call me to tell me you are ok. Everyone is calling me and is very worried about you! If you can't get thru, can you send me an email or a fax or something. Just worried about you and wish you

    4. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by csartanis · · Score: 3, Interesting


      2001-09-11 10:20:42 Skytel [002840776] C ALPHA were home! I love you! T

      Found the rest.

    5. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by rbb · · Score: 1
      How about this one:

      Did your cat calm down? Thanks...... You are the cheapest therapist I have ever seen. I think that is a typical Eric comment, I am glad you can see past the shroud. Have a great day!

      --
      In God We Trust, Others We Monitor
    6. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please stop. Conspiracy theories don't bother me much - I can discount them as the imaginings of kooks. But if you need to gawk at the emotion, please do it privately. I would rather not relive that sorrow this morning. Please show a little discretion.

    7. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wish you what? wish you WHAT?

    8. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not consider not reading such obviously emotionally loaded discussions?

    9. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by WarlockD · · Score: 1

      2001-09-11 10:02:01 Skytel [007515136] A ALPHA alerts@mktalert.com|Market Alert|Mortgage-backed securities market is closed due to today's breaking

      That one bothered me more... Atleast in 7 more years:P

    10. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found this one in the midst of all the confusion...

      2001-09-11 10:01:10 Arch [1006335] D ALPHA ...all of a sudden, work doesn't seem so important today....

    11. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by Eil · · Score: 1

      I would assume these messages were all being broadcast form/to the general NYC area, not just the twin towers.

    12. Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages by Carlos+Matesanz · · Score: 1

      2001-09-11 09:15:38 Arch [1376997] B ALPHA (27)Hey Honey! Can you bring some bagels when you get back? The pork chop is now crying about the World Trade Center plane crash. Geez! It is scray but no reason to cry. Talk to you later! I love you!

      mmmmm bagels

  12. Pagers were working? by wandazulu · · Score: 4, Informative

    I thought pagers used the cell networks a la text messages; indeed, I thought a pager was essentially a dedicated text message device.

    I was in NYC on Sept 11 and the only thing that *was* working that day was the Internet...phones, both land line and cell were unavailable. We were trying to contact my brother-in-law who lived in Manhattan (we were in Brooklyn) and every phone we tried, including the pay phone down the street (still had 'em back then...) gave us the "fast busy signal", indicating "We didn't even try to make your call..."

    So we spent the rest of the day IM'ing people as that was the only way to verify who was where. Bad times...bad times.

    1. Re:Pagers were working? by barzok · · Score: 1

      There were pagers before cell networks were widespread. Later pagers may have worked with cell networks, but there were (are?) pager networks which were much stronger & reliable than anything the cell networks provide.

      I knew a number of people who carried a pager for on-call duties (and this is just 5 years ago) because while cell phones didn't work inside their houses, pagers did.

    2. Re:Pagers were working? by Darth_brooks · · Score: 1

      I thought pagers used the cell networks a la text messages; indeed, I thought a pager was essentially a dedicated text message device.

      Let me save someone else the trouble:

      blah blah blah kids today blah blah blah get off my lawn blah blah blah I remember when this was all fields.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pager

      --
      There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    3. Re:Pagers were working? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      no, pagers are MUCH older then cell phones.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    4. Re:Pagers were working? by kriston · · Score: 1

      In those days most pager networks were separate and distinct from the mobile phone networks (and were on different frequencies, too). My two-way Motorola Skytel pager worked everywhere. Even today I cannot find a comparable mobile phone service with the coverage and reliability of the pagers that I cannot carry anymore.

      --

      Kriston

    5. Re:Pagers were working? by Spudds · · Score: 1

      That's partially true.
      I also lived and worked in Manhattan during 9/11.

      There was a cellphone tower on top of one of the two towers which killed cellphones for the lower region of the island, but cellphones were working just fine as low as 35th st. I called my parents back home from my apartment on 91st street and spoke with a co-worker who was already at work and watching the events unfold from the corner of 35th and 7th.

      You are definitely correct about cellphones not working down in the financial district however.

    6. Re:Pagers were working? by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 1

      The pagers I know of used transmissions over FM radio stations' towers, using sideband frequencies.

      --
      This space available.
    7. Re:Pagers were working? by lothos · · Score: 1

      Most pagers back then used satellites for coverage.

      Anyone remember the satellite outage in 1998 when pagers stopped working for 2 days?

    8. Re:Pagers were working? by no_such_user · · Score: 1

      They might have used satellites to relay messages through the pager network, but the pagers themselves were talking to local towers.

    9. Re:Pagers were working? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data to phones can be delivered when the network is very congested, since the speed that packages reach the phone isn't all that important, unlike voice where if you miss a couple dozen packets in a row your call is gone.

    10. Re:Pagers were working? by bjb · · Score: 1
      I can concur that the only thing working was the internet. In fact, since I couldn't make any phone calls (except, by miracle, one call to my family to tell them I was alive!) the only way I could communicate to the world was through the dial-up connection in my apartment. The overload of people asking me on AIM what happened and was I OK drove me to write an email which ultimately became widespread (and noted on Slashdot). Wasn't a good day, but it was invaluable to have an internet connection when all other means of communicating were out of commission.

      Forget getting a cell phone signal. Forget calling outside of your local PBX. Local call to your neighbor or ISP? sure.

      --
      Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
    11. Re:Pagers were working? by Eil · · Score: 1

      Pager broadcasts are completely separate from cell networks and don't really have anything in common in them, to my knowledge. Pager networks are incredibly robust. I believe they'll scale to thousands of messages per minute at least and if you look at the logs posted by wikileaks, there are rarely more than a few dozen every second. Although I guess the downside is that you normally have to place a phone call or have Internet connectivity to send a page.

      On a related note, it's possible to use a second-hand pager and a few dollars' worth of components to make your very own pager scanner. Ladyada posted a nice HOWTO on how to do this.

    12. Re:Pagers were working? by Gunstick · · Score: 1

      nice to mention your email which is linked to that slashdot story. But...

      "Object not found!

      The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again.

      If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster.
      Error 404
      www.tribrothers.com
      Thu Nov 26 02:52:31 2009
      Apache/2.0.54 (Linux/SUSE) "

      Well, so far for "the Internet never forgets anything"

      --
      Atari rules... ermm... ruled.
    13. Re:Pagers were working? by bjb · · Score: 1

      Oops. Yeah, it has since moved to http://dronefone.com/wtc/wtc.html since tribrothers went out of business (no affiliation with me other than I helped them build an initial version of their website).

      --
      Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
    14. Re:Pagers were working? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Text pagers are run on paging towers operated by a third-party, and on frequencies and signal modulations different from cellular. (POCSAG, MDT4800, FLEX, etc.) At that time, at least, they were not just a dedicated cellular SMS device.

      http://www.nettwerked.net/pager_decoding.txt

  13. Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! by ledow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Tech related: intercepted private pager messages from a variety of sources. Someone managed to collate these en-masse and distribute them.
    Politically related (Slashdot has a politics section): suggestion of interception and storage of pager messages on a grand scale beyond that needed for operational reasons (this is 24-hours worth, don't forget, from several sources).
    Privacy related: A release of otherwise private information, including private communications between ordinary people, presumably gathered direct from telco's, to a website known for doing that with politically-sensitive material. If nothing else, this shows you where your "private communications" end up when you're texting something erotic to your girlfriend... not "analysed", not "anonymised", just saved onto a disk somewhere at the telco for a random person to collect and leak to the Internet.

    I think it's relevant and I have zero interest in 9/11, conspiracy theories, or even most of the things the US does.

  14. I Can't Wait... by Black-Man · · Score: 4, Funny

    For that text pager message: "Finished arming the detonating device, Herr Cheney".

    1. Re:I Can't Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Or the message "Bob, I'm letting some of the passengers fly the plane for a bit."

    2. Re:I Can't Wait... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      "You deaded me, you swine, you! - Bluebottle"

    3. Re:I Can't Wait... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      "I thought I'd give the passengers a treat and fly over Manhattan before I land. Don't tell ATC!" And, a short while later "There's smoke coming from one of the WTC towers. Going to do a flyby before I land and see if I can get some good pictures!"

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  15. Twitter next by JerryQ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    After the next major event it will be the twitter stream which will be subject to such analysis

    1. Re:Twitter next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the analysis will be "Something happened... then Twitter failed."

    2. Re:Twitter next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you crazy? it takes down vell networks and what not and you think the failwhale won't appear?

    3. Re:Twitter next by barbazoo · · Score: 1

      [2012-01-01 06:12:32] OMG The Jebus statue has fallen #riodude
      [2012-01-01 06:12:33] Too many tweets! We'll try to lighten the load and have things back to normal soon.

  16. Re:Good Move by Sockatume · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd question the ethics of it. The very existence of this database is of huge political and social importance, thus falling under Wikileaks' remit, but by putting it into the public domain they're infringing the privacy of the citizens involved even further. You can bet all the TLAs, not to mention police forces, lawyers, insurance companies, and so on are having fun with it now it's in public view.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  17. Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can there be moderation for editors please? I love how comments can be modded to oblivion, but useless editors and stories can't.

    If you log in then you can hide stories from particular editors (like that newbie CmdrTaco). Also, you have the chance to mod a story down using the Firehose before it gets approved.

    Finally, there is also the option of just not clicking on the link if you are not interested in the story. Woah, I've gone too far there!

  18. Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! by RiffRafff · · Score: 1

    What is the point of this story on slashdot? It's not tech related

    Pagers.

    I has one. Gen-u-wine IBM issue.

    --
    "I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
  19. Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ehw erotic texting

  20. Re:Good Move by sycodon · · Score: 1

    I'm sure family members of victims will relish the last communications of their loved ones being slashed all over wikileaks.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  21. Wow by jayhawk88 · · Score: 1

    im not dealing with this shit today.i will call johnston in earlyford shut down there plants and im not answering why we are still working.fuck this. FROM: RYDER LITTLEJOHN (x18914) (3

    I bet someone felt like a real asshole after sending that. So sorry that one of the greatest tragedies in the countries history screwed up your day.

    1. Re:Wow by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      I can't get to my E-mail today. I am calling Tom to stop is Town Hall meeting due to that fact. Who am I?????

      I hope he saved lives by cancelling the meeting. Article

  22. Surely this is proof if ever it were needed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that a number of Muslim fundamentalist fanatics conspired to hijack four aircraft and flew one of them into the Pentagon, and two others into the twin trade towers in New York.

    Now that's what I call a real conspiracy theory.

  23. What about Iridium? by ickleberry · · Score: 1

    It would be interesting to see Satellite phone traffic from that day. Iridium also runs a pager service that still works :)

  24. Mmmm by carp3_noct3m · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wikileaks is simply an outlet for sensitive information. So what you're implying is that their privacy wasn't infringed by whichever entity collected the information, but by Wikileaks? That doesn't make any sense. I do see your point, but I think the potential benefits by far outweigh the cons of such a release. Now that the data is out there, nothing can be done to get it back. On top of this, Wikileaks has some serious credibility when it comes to their methods and what and when they decide to release, I'm sure their lawyers have thought out the consequences and variations thoroughly. Their statement as to the source is “While we are obligated ... to protect our sources, it is clear that the information comes from an organization which has been intercepting and archiving national US telecommunications since prior to 9/11.” If anything, THIS is what people SHOULD be mad about, that a (potentially governmental) organization has been collecting this data without their consent in the first place.

    --
    "It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
  25. Global warming a conspiracy, maybe 911 is too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until we got the email evidence proving global warming was a hoax, I was ready to almost start believing it. Given that it IS apparently possible for the UN and thousands of scientists across the world to fake something as wide ranging as global warming, I am going to have to re-examine my skepticism of the 911 "truther" conspiracy theory as well. Like the email that brought down global warming, this pager evidence is pretty damned convincing.

    1. Re:Global warming a conspiracy, maybe 911 is too by leoxx · · Score: 2, Funny

      Like the email that brought down global warming, this pager evidence is pretty damned convincing.

      Slashdot in a nutshell.

  26. The middle by copponex · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Read the Project for a New American Century's statement of principles here. Now read the PNAC letter to Clinton on Iraq here. Note that Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Jeb are all big supporters. Now read about their plans here.

    The choice quote is: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."

    My theory is that they had intelligence stating that the attack was going to happen. Just as many suspect happened at Pearl Harbor, they deliberately stood down defenses in order to get the catalyzing event that they need in order to enact foreign military operations. They may have done this truly believing it was in the best interests of the country, but the truth needs to come out, and those responsible punished.

    I don't think they knew that the towers would collapse. It explains the look on George when he was first told we were under attack, and the look on his face during his address.

    1. Re:The middle by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      You're a shitty conspiracy theorist.

      Several government organizations knew it was going to happen. Its public knowledge at this point. They knew something was about to happen. Terrorist chatter was up, all sorts of indications.

      They just had no idea WHAT EXACTLY was going to happen. The knowledge they had didn't compute to 'they are going to fly airplaces into the twin towers'.

      The knowledge they had seemed to indicate something big, from the skies ... but thats about it. After it happened, it all made a lot more sense, hindsight is like that. Makes it really easy to look back at the info you had and say 'duh, I totally should have saw that coming'.

      I suppose they could have 'warned us', and freaked everyone out about what might happen, but then they would have been good terrorists without doing anything at all.

      You're going to have to do far better than that shitty post if you're going to throw conspiracies around.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re:The middle by fluffy99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Very similar to Pearl Harbor, no? The administrator knew something was coming, and indirectly wanted it to happen to get public opinion in favor of entering the war. There is even evidence that it was known that Pearl Harbor was the target and the date, as all the high-value ships were conveniently pulled out of port shortly beforehand. All the ships lost were low value ships due to be decommissioned in the near future. There is even evidence that the Japanese coded transmissions had been deciphered so someone knew the plan, and the incoming planes had been spotted on radar (whether this info intentionally not acted on is up for debate).

      I have no doubt our govt something was coming, and likely wanted it to happen to get public opinion behind invading the middle east again. Condolezza Rice published a report that predicted airplanes as the weapons.

    3. Re:The middle by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      At this point in time I don't know what to believe anymore. The official story makes just as much sence to me as the conspiracy theories being thrown around the web.

      All I know is that nothing makes sence with that 9/11 stuff...

      --
      Here be signatures
    4. Re:The middle by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      The official story makes just as much sence to me as the conspiracy theories being thrown around the web.

      Nonsense. The conspiracy theories are the products of insane morons without a clue.

    5. Re:The middle by notrandomly · · Score: 1

      Why would the administration want to take huge losses to its naval fleet in the middle of a war?

  27. Reichstag would vote A by 1800maxim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Was Reichstag fire just as unbelievable as 9/11? It was done to further gov't agenda.

    From Wikipedia: The Reichstag fire... is seen as pivotal in the establishment of Nazi Germany.

    Don't think gov'ts now aren't capable of the same thing, or that they aren't doing it.

    But then it's much more comfortable to bury one's head in the sand.

    1. Re:Reichstag would vote A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please note that it was the Administration following Bush that created Swine Flu and released it into the wild in Mexico and then did nothing to slow its spread after the public got wind of it. Nothing like furthering the Health care control freak agenda.

      That's right...go stick your head back in the sand 1800Maxim.

    2. Re:Reichstag would vote A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Completely ignoring the gravely different circumstances of the two events, and the radically different sized teams which would have to coordinate a cover up - simply saying "Yes, someone probably liked to us about 9/11 - but it's more likely a lie covering up their own inadequacies and not their juicy slaughter" is by no means burying your head in the sand.

      He said scenario B was more likely than scenario A - and I agree with him there. He did NOT say that scenario B was impossible, don't try and act like he did. But then again, it's far easier to be considered "interesting" and not "troll" when you bold statements like "bury one's head in the sand." Keep creating straw man arguments to debate something your "opponent" never said - it makes you look very "interesting."

    3. Re:Reichstag would vote A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's potentially been happening since Rome 64 AD, and undoubtedly before then.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Rome

    4. Re:Reichstag would vote A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Except, of coure, no one has ever proved that the Nazis staged the Reichstag fire, but please don't let that get in the way of your fantasy.

  28. Or option C. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    C. Elements of both.

    As I understand things, it is unrealistic to think that the Government and related military bodies were conspiring together, as it implies a singularity of intent within a ridiculously massive structure. It's like saying that the Government is one thing when really it's a huge collection of many forces working at counter-purposes, operating from different levels of knowledge and awareness, having different sources of funding and which answer to numerous different authorities which are rarely in agreement, -and for which even the most basic levels of public oversight are cosmetic and generally useless.

    Also, you didn't mention Big Business and, Foreign *cough Israel* Governments in your two options, which combined with the above, all comes together to create what is known as the Military Industrial Complex. --A concept which is largely misunderstood. The MIC is a giant, hopelessly complex, corrupt, world-spanning system in which it is entirely possible for small groups of people to work in secret to enact whatever agendas they feel obliged to visit upon the world. It happens all the time, except instead of pushing unsafe hormones past public oversight bodies and into cow's milk, or selling toxic peanuts or ripping off the public through savings and loans scandals, or selling Palestinian pancreases on the black market, or selling drugs to fund contra rebels, or whatever, this piece of bullshit happened to use airplanes and be more in your face and ambitious than the usual con job. But clearly it wasn't overly-ambitious, because all the goals have been met and nobody got caught.

    Bullshit happens all the time, crafty nasty people plan in secret all the time and they get away with murder, we rarely ever find out exactly what the heck happened, and with the exception of the token sacrificial goat now and again, the people responsible never actually get punished.

    And nearly everybody continues to believe what the soothing talking heads on TV have to say about it all while disregarding their own senses and while ridiculing those who have the balls to try to think for themselves.

    You know? Business as usual.

    -FL

  29. Back when pagers were still popular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I bought a product for about $50 from and ad in a magazine called "Monitoring Times". It was a little device that plugged into the speaker jack of a scanner that could pick up the pager frequencies. The other end plugged into my sound-card input, and software decoded it. I would read other people's pages all day long.

    Certainly anyone who had one of these and lived in NYC during 9/11 would have monitored pager traffic. It's not that surprising that WikiLeaks was able to get this.

  30. Take your meds! by operagost · · Score: 1

    There are an amusing number of messages to "take your meds". That's NYC for ya.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  31. Re:Good Move by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All the TLAs almost certainly had access to it already. Putting it in the public domain means that the public now has more of a clue about the amount of information the TLAs have on them. If it leads to more opposition to things like the USAPATRIOT Act then it will have served a beneficial purpose.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  32. Obviously by SnarfQuest · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Too bad it isn't phone calls. They might be more intresting than meeting reminders:

    Him: Guess where I'm calling from.
    Her: Huh?
    Him: I'm calling from ythe plane. I'm on the plane, and calling you. It's a phone, on the plane.
    Her: How stupid.
    Him: Hold on, we're about to fly through a buil.....
    Her: Hello? Hello?

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  33. Re:Good Move by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd question the ethics of it. The very existence of this database is of huge political and social importance, thus falling under Wikileaks' remit, but by putting it into the public domain they're infringing the privacy of the citizens involved even further. You can bet all the TLAs, not to mention police forces, lawyers, insurance companies, and so on are having fun with it now it's in public view.

    Exactly- and especially true when you browse through and see messages like " " Andre-are you at work today? Gimme a call - 301-555-5555. Gerry". (number obviously changed in my repost) There's no doubt that these people will be targeted for 9/11-related scams and other obnoxious behavior in short order. You think Gerry's not already getting a call from someone looking to cash in, or who just thinks they're being funny?

    If this list were filtered so that it was just automated systems, non-personal, etc , that's fine -- but doing it in this way is just opening the door for all the abuse and stupidity that we're capable of. As it is - it's a gross breach of privacy, published in a way that ensures that there will be no accountability for any abuse of personal information found in it.

  34. 08:58:33 by Spacezilla · · Score: 3, Interesting

    2001-09-11 08:58:33 Skytel [002399634] A ALPHA Initial reports indictate that AAL11, B767, after initial hijacking on flight from BOS-LAX, has crashed into the side of the World Trade Center in NY. ATCSCC/bl

    That was an insane amount of detail at a point when everyone else was going: "It's possible something may have happened somewhere."

    1. Re:08:58:33 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing the first bit of "ATCSCC/bl" stands for Air Traffic Control.

    2. Re:08:58:33 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Air Traffic Control System Command Center. Not sure what the /bl is. Maybe someone's initials?

    3. Re:08:58:33 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FAA knew something was up the moment AAL11's transponder was switched off. Here's a segment of the timeline of ATC's activities that morning:

      0825: controllers at Boston Center notified New England Regional Ops, ATC System Command Center, the Boston Center facility manager, and New York Center that they suspected AAL11 had been hijacked
      0834: Boston Center contacted Cape Terminal Radar Approach and requested that they notify the military
      0835: New England ROC notified Washington Operations Center of the suspected hijacking of AAL11
      0836: Washington Ops notified the FAA's Civil Aviation Security Intelligence and initiated a teleconference with New England ROC and ATCSCC
      0838: Boston Center notified NORAD of the hijacking
      ~0842: NORAD is notified of the hijacking of UAL175
      0844: New York Center notified New York TRACON
      0850: Newark Tower, who had a direct line of sight to the WTC, notified New York TRACON of a possible aircraft crash into the WTC
      0855: controller-in-charge at New York Center advised the Ops Manager that UAL175 was also hijacked; CIC began to coordinate with controllers, who stated UAL175 was heading "right for the city;" CIC returned to Ops Manager and overheard a request for military aircraft to scramble

      So you see, there was as you put it an insane amount of detail that the FAA had already collected at that point.

      Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/14353715/FAA-Draft-Report-The-Air-Traffic-Organizations-Response-to-the-September-11th-Terrorist-Attack

  35. Classless post by darkpixel2k · · Score: 3, Funny
    Damn it--it looks like the terrorists stopped a Microsoft Exchange event...

    7 Skytel [002380116] B ALPHA Frank.Heisler@ubsw.com|FW: Exchange IT Event - CANCELLED| -----Original Message----- From: Bucher, Gisela Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:54 PM To: DL-Perot-STAM-Permanent Cc: Subject: Exchange IT Event - CANCELLED

    This confuses me greatly. On one hand I utterly despise the terrorists for what they did...but I really hate Exchange too...

    --
    There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
  36. Re:Good Move by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1
    From the wikileaks page:

    Text pagers are usualy carried by persons operating in an official capacity. Messages in the archive range from Pentagon and New York Police Department exchanges, to computers reporting faults to their operators as the World Trade Center collapsed. The archive is a completely objective record of the defining moment of our time. We hope that its revelation will lead to a more nuanced understanding of the event and its tragic consequences.

    Text pagers are also carried by support personnel, executives, grunts, everyday people. It's nice how they point out the "official" messages but leave out that these are outnumbered by "call me, are you ok?!" style messages, along with things like account numbers, private phone numbers, etc.

    The text of the messages indicates that it's also not strictly sent by people who were directly involved - so is this just a dump of NYC area pages from nearby cell towers? What filtering do they have to prevent unrelated information from being shared?

    Ah, right, this is wikileaks. We don't consider consequences for other people here. What a joke.

  37. WTC-7 by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    ... the third building that crashed in ...

    You're thinking of WTC-7, which collapsed around five-twenty-something in the afternoon. Was not struck by plane. Officially, struck and damaged by debris from the collapse of towers one and two. WTC-7 was a security hardened building with lots of extra steel and concrete -- it housed the control center for New York City's disaster response, among other security-minded entities -- which makes the "flying debris" explanation questionable in some people's minds.

    --
    -kgj
    1. Re:WTC-7 by dave420 · · Score: 1

      It also had a massive amounts of diesel in it (for the generators), and loads of debris went straight through the roof and the side. The building was on fire on the inside for hours. I'm not trying to be rude, but those 'some people' you mentioned might not be the most-well-informed bunch out there. The building itself was pretty idiotic - not all the building was extra-secure or built tough, mainly just the bits that housed the control center. The rest was pretty much an ordinary building. It was totally a waste of money. I'm not saying I don't believe you, just that it's not as cut and dry as that.

    2. Re:WTC-7 by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Officially, struck and damaged by debris from the collapse of towers one and two.

      I LOVE the way you phrased that! You forgot to put the "officially" in scare-quotes, though. Could have used some italics tags, too. It's important to impress on people the idea that official=bad!

      WTC-7 was a security hardened building with lots of extra steel and concrete

      Wrong. It was actually a pretty shit design. It used a cantilever girder arrangement when it was built on top of an old con-ed substation. According to NIST, this design choice didn't really play a part in the collapse - however, your claim that the building was "hardened" is complete bullshit.

      which makes the "flying debris" explanation questionable in some people's minds

      Well that's good, because flying debris didn't do enough damage to cause collapse. It only started the fires which eventually brought down the building.

      More here.

      What I can't get over is how stupid/ignorant/crazy/paranoid you'd have to be to believe that blowing up an empty building is just the kind of thing that the nefarious NWO would do. Why exactly would anyone want to do that? Nobody seems to be able to answer that question, although a few of the REALLY crazy fuckers have suggested that the CIA was too cheap to buy paper-shredders, and figured blowing up the building would be a good way to destroy their records. Makes perfect sense, if you're suffering from LSD flashbacks. Oh, and as an alternate explanation, the anti-semites like to push the JOOO connection by claiming that Larry Silverstein ordered the fire department to blow up the building so that he could get insurance money. I'm telling ya, these 9/11 goofers are nuttier than squirrel shit.

  38. Re:Good Move by Sockatume · · Score: 1

    "Almost certainly" doesn't really cut it. Even so, the best case scenario here is that only insurers, the police, politicians, stalkers, Joe Public, your doctor, your friends, and your family have gained information as a result of this leak. You're quantitatively, albeit perhaps not qualitatively, worse off, and for what gain? Historical data-mining?

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  39. And your name IS smooth wombat??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    And your name IS smooth wombat???

  40. Re:Good Move by mattOzan · · Score: 1

    " Andre-are you at work today? Gimme a call - 301-555-5555. Gerry" You think Gerry's not already getting a call from someone looking to cash in, or who just thinks they're being funny?

    How many of these numbers still ring up the person who carried the device in 2001? Probably not many. Vanishingly small number, in fact. This was before the whole cell phone number portability thing. I don't think I have a single phone number from 2001 that is still in use for me.

  41. Re:Good Move by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1
    So you're saying that it's really OK, because most people won't have the same numbers - making it so that the privacy of their communications isn't a concern?

    I've had the same cell and home phone numbers for 10 years now -but it really doesn't matter. It's trivial to track someone's old contact information to their new, in most cases

  42. Wow, I wonder if my texts are in there... by Fritz+T.+Coyote · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, I am a New Yorker. Yes, I was in the city that day. My Cellphone was useless, probably due to a combination of losing a major relay point, and everybody in town trying to use their phones at the same time. Landlines were flakey (probably due to losing a major chunk of the infrastructure). My Obsolete and Archaic text pager kept working. (I wonder if the pager "I'm OK, R U OK?"messages I exchanged with my sister are in this archive?)

  43. Re:Good Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... people should learn how to use logic and think for themselves.

    And we can expect this from the next generation? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQdhMSEqhfg

  44. Diesel fuel fire by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    It also had a massive amounts of diesel in it (for the generators) ...

    20,000 gallons, if I recall correctly. Which is a lot of diesel fuel, sure could kick up a lot of fire.

    The collapse was captured on a number of video recordings: example, example. WTC-7 is on fire, but not massively on fire. When it collapses, the roofline visibly crumples inward: I'm no structural engineer, but to my untrained eye, the crumpling does look like controlled demolition, rather than a steel-frame building burning so furiously that it collapses.

    I sure as hell don't know the truth, and I don't expect to ever know the truth. But it seems to me that if there any smoking gun to be found, WTC-7 is it.

    --
    -kgj
    1. Re:Diesel fuel fire by Y-Crate · · Score: 2, Informative

      WTC 7 was NOT a hardened building. It was constructed in the early 80s as a run of the mill office building. The only thing unique about it was the unusual arrangement of the load-bearing members. This was needed because the thing was constructed on top of a massive utility vault. The Emergency Command Center was shoehorned into the building and not everyone thought the location made any sense for obvious reasons. (It was located there AFTER the '93 bombing)

      As for the collapse, it looks "controlled" because buildings don't usually fall down for any reason other than controlled demolition. That's the only point of reference most people have. That aside, physics ensure that buildings tend to fall straight down, or twist a little and then fall straight down.

      But if you want more in-depth detail about how stresses were distributed and how the building was comprimised, then check out this link or or this one.

  45. Cantor Fitzgerald offline message by kriston · · Score: 1

    The most chilling automated early warning before the human chatter really gets going:

    2001-09-11 08:48:46 Arch [0162912] A ALPHA PAGE FROM lifeline: alert 8933585 ETS appl nbetpsd27.fi.gs.com ETS RTCE: - Market data inconsistent...Cantor API problem Trading system offline on nbetpsd27.fi.gs.com, run by etsuser on nbetpsd27, pid = 24

    Human chatter:
    2001-09-11 08:50:25 Arch [0901509] B ALPHA A plane crashed thru the twin towers. Real bad..BR

    Repeated automated chatter:
    2001-09-11 08:50:31 Skytel [003260422] B ALPHA An Aloha call is starting . This is for a fire at 2WT. Please call into TeleMeeting conference center at -877-913-7943 . If Morgan Stanley has not initiated the call you will hear music until they initiate the call. Dallas Data

    --

    Kriston

  46. Does this REALLY need to be public? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

    I understand the need to know what happened. I understand the amount of knowledge that can be gleaned from analyzing this event.

    But do we really need to make public the messages of thousands of people full of fear and worry for their lives and loved ones?

    This seems to be in rather poor taste to me.

    Its one thing for a group of researchers to go over the data, its another entirely to splatter across the Internet where the age of maturity runs about half of the physical age of the person in talking. Already in response to this story their are jokes here that while funny, as a prime example of bad taste.

    I'd have to say that this is an example taking the whole Wikileaks thing too far. Its one thing to post emails from money grabbing scum bag CEOs, its entirely different to post a text message from a man to his wife begging her to contact him so he knows if she's alive of dead. Some things really should be left private. And no, just because you can't tie the message to the actual person who sent it doesn't make it private.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    1. Re:Does this REALLY need to be public? by mxh83 · · Score: 1

      yes. because truth is always more important than feelings.

    2. Re:Does this REALLY need to be public? by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      yes. because truth is always more important than feelings.

      I'm still waiting for you to give me your email password. We've already got the audio recordings of every phone conversation you've ever had, secretly taped post-coital conversations (if any), and secretly taped coital acts archived and ready to publish.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    3. Re:Does this REALLY need to be public? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      What are you, 12? Still think the matrix is real?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  47. He used "or"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    So I guess you could have both...

  48. They were all controlled implosions by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 1

    The planes hitting the towers were the distraction to
    allow the fake firefighters inside to plant the thermate.

    --
    You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    1. Re:They were all controlled implosions by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      You got any court-grade evidence for this?

      --
      Here be signatures
    2. Re:They were all controlled implosions by pipedwho · · Score: 1

      Woosh...

    3. Re:They were all controlled implosions by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      No ofcourse I know that he hasn't you idiot. It is meant for shutting retards the hell up.

      Whooooooooooooooshhhhh.....

      --
      Here be signatures
    4. Re:They were all controlled implosions by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      No, his whoosh was actually appropriate, because you clearly missed the fact that "SpaceLifeForm" was being sarcastic. I suggest you apologize to "pipedwho" for calling him an idiot.

  49. I don't think it's complete by Tweezer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I searched a whole bunch of these for the word "fuck" and couldn't find a single instance. I find it hard to believe that nobody got a page from their girl/boy friend saying why don't you come over and fuck me or a message saying holy fuck a plane just hit the WTC.

    1. Re:I don't think it's complete by omni123 · · Score: 1

      This is as close as I got. 2001-09-11 08:53:03 Skytel [007512349] D ALPHA Swimfan6@aol.com|Just read..|the mail re: my top:) GOD, ur so wonderful, cute, SEXY. IWY..so damn bad

  50. Proof by cdrguru · · Score: 1

    This is proof that anything in digital form will find it way into the most undeserving, obnoxious hands possible.

    Sure, probably 90% of these messages are pointless and of no value to anyone. The remaining 10% are probably either personal information or are going to cause some people untold grief. Imagine walking into a conversation about a security video that got posted to YouTube only to discover it is the video of your husband or wife being murdered. This isn't much different for some people today.

    Bad taste to publish this stuff? Na, this is the Internet. Bad taste is what it is all about. Lowest common denominator sells. If you haven't checked out rotten.com in a while, you are certainly missing something.

  51. Funny thing is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that nowadays we have only two options:

    1. The government (bush) planned and executed the whole attack from a to z without any terrorists being part of it.

    2. Terrorists planned and executed the whole attack from a to z without any government being part of it.

    No middle ground is offered. You are either with 1 of 2. If I were a government with plans to allow/plan an attack, this is what I would do. Along with the official statement, I would create buzz that there's a crazy conspiracy behind it.

    Instead of giving people's minds room for free thinking and investigation, I now narrowed it down to 2 choices: are you with us? Or with the nuts?

  52. Uh, wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please note that it was the Administration following Bush that created Swine Flu and released it into the wild in Mexico and then did nothing to slow its spread after the public got wind of it. Nothing like furthering the Health care control freak agenda.

    That's right...go stick your head back in the sand 1800Maxim.

    Are you

    a) a hell of a dry comedian?
    or
    b) a really amateur troll?
    or
    c) the stupidest twat on the planet?

    The H1N1 strain of the swine flu has been around since at least 2004 , the year the second term of the bush misgovernment started. Therefore, clearly by your implied logic, bush did it.

    OK, it's not believeable because, well, bush is just too damned dumb. Rove & Cheney did it. There - that's quite believable.

    Unlike you, 1800Maxim doesn't have to put up with the constant smell of his own sh*t from where he has his head stuck.

    [Very spooky, Slashdot. My captcha is "strains"]

  53. definitely 4. maybe more. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2001-09-11 08:46:31 Arch [1426125] D ALPHA FIRE IS/WAS 3 OR 4 ALARMS?

  54. Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you pay attention to the comments, I think you will find that most commenters are very experienced with not clicking the links.

  55. Read the pages by kramulous · · Score: 1

    The story is that gblnetnt07 (cabinet 311R) really needed to be rebooted and TG185 has less than 0 ports left

    Sheeze! I bet that was your pager.

    --
    .
  56. grep them for "password" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wonder if any of these are still valid.

    Teehee...

  57. Re:Good Move by Xest · · Score: 1

    That's pretty much the point though. The fact is if you store this information it will almost inevitably get out eventually, in fact, the fact it got into the hands of someone willing to release it to Wikileaks suggests it already had leaked into the wrong hands for data that should be handled in a sensitive manner to start with.

    Whether it's wikileaks or the data being burnt to CD and lost by a government as it was with 25million people in the UK this data gets out some way or another. The simple solution is, don't store what's necessary, put more effort into keeping it secure.

    Blaming Wikileaks is pointless, even if they stopped leaking data like this so as to be "ethical", it wouldn't stop all the other companies, individuals and government departments leaking data they probably shouldn't have.

    It's best this way, that it's leaked in a loud and public manner, because then people are more aware of the problem than the pathetic coverups you get when government and industry do it. Sucks for the people involved, but it sucked for them anyway, the difference is, they just didn't know it had happened to them before. Can you be sure it hadn't already been leaked to others previously and wasn't in scammers hands already? Can you be sure it wouldn't ever have been?

  58. for your grepping pleasure by goodtrick · · Score: 1

    juicy stuff 003951473 002461139 005385065

  59. Re:Good Move by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1
    There's a bit of a hole in that logic. You're saying that because it shouldn't have been stored (I agree, it shouldn't), we can't prove nobody had it before, and because it might have leaked eventually, everybody should have it now?

    If you make the assumption that this data would have gotten leaked eventually - then I can almost see your point. But there are terabytes of data that do not get leaked every day and in all probability never will.

    The existence of the data could have been made public without the data itself. That aside -- from the wikileaks writeup, it appears that their only motive in publishing it is for analysis of crisis responses.

  60. Going Back to Bed.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

        08:51:11 Metrocall [0623896] C ALPHA goodmorning I love you hope you slept good Have a greatday!!me Ps I m going back to bed (your side) naked think about it XXXOOO

    BTW Pagers are still CRITICAL for Oncall support!

  61. sed /fuck/!d by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2001-09-11 15:56:37 metrocall [1543818] c alpha i want to suck you and fuck you. i want you to lick me, too! i'm wearing a see-thru outfit.

  62. Re:Good Move by Xest · · Score: 1

    "If you make the assumption that this data would have gotten leaked eventually - then I can almost see your point. But there are terabytes of data that do not get leaked every day and in all probability never will."

    Yes, that was the assumption I'm making. I think you'd be suprised how much data actually does leak once outside of the most strictly controlled environments. This data will almost without a doubt have been outside of a strictly controlled environment hence why it leaked in the first place. Data generally only gets leaked when it's not in such an environment because it means so many people have access it would be impossible to trace the leaker, but similarly data in such an environment generally also gets out anyway.

    I've had my credit card details used for fraud, despite never using it for cash or in store purchases, and only using it for online purchases. I know my network is secure as anything, and so the reality is my details could only have got out from either my bank or a major online retailer like Amazon, fortunately for me, the bank covers it being a credit card, but the point is that data leaks all the time- even data like this that should be extremely sensitive. Similarly I've had the odd phone call from advertising companies even though my phone is on the UK's do not call list and I've never published it publicly or accepted contact by ticking or not ticking such boxes on forms- in fact, I don't even give the number on the form. In one particular incident it was a call from some no win, no fee scum after someone crashed into me offering their services- either my insurance company or the other guys insurance company clearly had an employee leak the data because they couldn't legally sell the data on under the UK's data protection act, and no one else could have known about the guy going into the back of me at the time.

    I think it's wrong to assume that if some data isn't in a high security environment and has some value, that it wont leak. Even some data in high security environments will leak.

  63. Word counts by ScaledLizard · · Score: 1

    According to my count, the following words appear more than 2000 times:

    alpha: 299534, skytel: 237233, arch: 122616, metroca: 73973, num: 72115, tone: 63352, com: 43040, call: 36191, from: 33065, this: 18987, has: 17926, all: 15899, sep: 15773, down: 15761, weblink: 14934, will: 14215, new: 13903, frm: 13723, test: 13269, txt: 13082, page: 13077, sub: 11974, have: 11060, been: 10876, center: 10687, number: 10512, your: 10444, update: 10292, york: 9740, home: 9562, alert: 9338, critica: 9334, server: 8994, trade: 8846, connect: 8807, informi: 8465, error: 8330, machine: 8208, cnn: 8013, world: 7967, message: 7947, news: 7901, that: 7894, time: 7815, edt: 7743, reboot: 7515, due: 7484, cabinet: 7339, cmp: 7339, status: 7332, mail: 7320, gblnetn: 7307, periodi: 7256, sequent: 7199, tkt: 7176, can: 6971, sev: 6833, service: 6514, ibm: 6409, now: 6206, today: 6054, evacuat: 5838, site: 5670, problem: 5289, network: 5111, system: 5102, ncc: 5101, www: 5057, everyon: 5031, sent: 5018, office: 4914, need: 4815, abs: 4745, socket: 4719, terrori: 4701, check: 4605, breakin: 4573, element: 4549, mpfetch: 4503, tue: 4412, line: 4409, get: 4394, asap: 4387, greater: 4325, contact: 4284, outage: 4224, any: 4218, phone: 4196, pls: 4183, custome: 4180, http: 4159, msg: 4139, unable: 4081, meeting: 4076, unch: 4027, subject: 4015, sendq: 3995, monitor: 3967, process: 3946, know: 3773, city: 3681, code: 3650, fyi: 3641, calls: 3616, plane: 3602, availab: 3553, yahoo: 3553, just: 3538, current: 3492, report: 3485, back: 3467, open: 3411, closed: 3407, team: 3406, being: 3399, bridge: 3375, timed: 3362, when: 3356, data: 3343, per: 3339, att: 3324, work: 3308, support: 3268, inc: 3266, updates: 3213, complet: 3205, job: 3198, reports: 3079, info: 3052, minutes: 3049, until: 3034, net: 3019, file: 2989, root: 2953, noc: 2952, issue: 2944, msn: 2933, failed: 2910, they: 2889, working: 2852, email: 2804, tomorro: 2795, case: 2723, access: 2678, operati: 2654, switch: 2652, ticket: 2630, sybase: 2611, still: 2599, alerts: 2503, emmc: 2484, our: 2484, informa: 2477, cdt: 2472, see: 2458, day: 2435, follow: 2406, script: 2405, their: 2397, investi: 2391, buildin: 2365, cell: 2338, pentago: 2318, fire: 2316, room: 2284, emergen: 2282, confirm: 2280, about: 2275, tuesday: 2272, name: 2266, event: 2260, opencon: 2258, sock: 2255, creditd: 2251, come: 2250, crdtdrv: 2250, alarm: 2245, chunk: 2245, possibl: 2240, web: 2229, sales: 2221, loock: 2217, attack: 2216, hudson: 2212, high: 2198, prob: 2187, says: 2173, only: 2136, west: 2134, request: 2133, followi: 2107, user: 2099, applica: 2076, let: 2076, account: 2061, nationa: 2050, going: 2046, device: 2014, morning: 2011, immedia: 2002

    1. Re:Word counts by ScaledLizard · · Score: 1

      Further down the list: linux: 1410, windows: 226

  64. Collected how?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait a sec. Just how did they *acquire* these messages? Especially the ones from *official* sources! Moral: There IS no such thing as privacy any more.