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Method To Repair Damaged Adult Nerves Discovered
An anonymous reader writes "Researchers have discovered a promising method to regrow damaged nerves in adults. Brain and spinal-cord injuries typically leave people with permanent impairment because the injured nerve fibers (axons) cannot regrow. A study from Harvard and Carleton University, published in the December 10 issue of the journal Neuron, shows that axons can regenerate vigorously in a mouse model when a gene that suppresses natural growth factors is deleted. Here is the journal article (subscription required to view more than the abstract)."
watch out guys
Of course I did not RTFA, nor am I trained in any sort of medical field - but I imagine that the possibilities that this might present are astounding. Are they hoping to restore mobility and function to people who have had major nerve damage as in the cases of spinal cord injuries? I thought stem cells were all the rage for that..is this a completely different approach?
Also - if we can stimulate the growth of nerve cells to help people, can the same therapy be used for nefarious stuff? (i.e., what happens if you grow too much nerves?)
Made me remember natural parenting. Hope it dont applies to this case too.
Tumors form through uncontrolled growth of cells. Axons are the connections between nerve cells that conduct the nerve impulses. There is no cell division proliferation going on here.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
"when a gene that suppresses natural growth factors is deleted"
That might lead to cancer, as some studies show:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=1Ap&q=growth+factor+cancer&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g-c2g-m2
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Sure, side effects of nerve growth unsuppression has to be studied. It may have implication in brain function disorders as well as elevated risks of tumors.or any other. By the way, this lead the path to further researches on proteins and other chemical treatments that may just temporarily inhibit that suppressor. Benefits risks ratio for a time restricted unsuppression could offer hope and an acceptable solution for nerve injured.
Léa Gris
Sadly, this news is a little to late for Christopher Reeve...
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
It's naaht a tumaah.
will this cause cancer in laboratory rats?
Good people go to bed earlier.
Will this work for hearing? Abusing my ears with loud music and gun fire has resulted in some loss of hearing for me. Since I won't read the subscription article, does it say it works for all nerves or just the spinal stuff?
Oh, and ask him how that GRAF shield is coming while you're at it...
Bow-ties are cool.
why is there a gene to stop regrowth anyway? surely being able to regrow nerves is very beneficial
you don't regrow broken axons. Neuron cells with broken axons die. All the things about neural regeneration require new-born neurons from glia-like stem cells.
I would think that given the choice between a) curing oneself from being quadriplegic and increasing one's risk of cancer tremendously or b) staying quadriplegic and cancer-free, I think nearly everyone would choose the cure + cancer-risk route.
On the other hand, as the cancer grows out of control, you just keep getting smarter and smarter.
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
When will this treatment become available in the black market neuro shops in China City?
I saw some emails that said these guys refuse to publish their data in journals that are run by creationists and flat Earth society members. They were also using various biological markers as "proxies" for nerve growth, but when they showed a decline in nerve growth, they were forced to hide the proxy data using their actual measurements of nerve growth. This is totally bogus and these people should be investigated.
"CNS Injury
Injury to the central nervous system (CNS) including the brain and spinal cord are major health problems both nationally and internationally. More than 2 million people in the U.S. suffer traumatic brain injuries annually, well over 500,000 people per year suffer from stroke, and at least 10,000 people per year suffer spinal cord injuries. "
CNS injury is mentioned in the Neuron abstract.
"Mein Führer, I can walk!"
Tumors form through uncontrolled growth of cells. Axons are the connections between nerve cells that conduct the nerve impulses. There is no cell division proliferation going on here.
That's true, the goal here is to let existing cells regrow their axons, not for cells to multiply - which is what cancer is a bad form of. So this might not directly be relevant to cancer.
However, there are plenty of other ways in which this could turn out to have side effects that make it a bad idea. One basic concern is that there is probably a reason why axon growth is supressed in the central nervous system - after all, the brain is amazingly complicated, and all those connections between brain cells need to be of the right kind. If things start connecting where they shouldn't, badness may occur. So just stopping the suppression might lead to too many connections being made.
But this is all speculation. Bottom line, this sounds like a breakthrough finding by the researchers, and one that will lead to a lot of followup investigation. Kudos to them.
This. Exactly this.
All medications have side effects, and as consumers of those medications we weigh the potential risks against the potential benefits. In this case, if you're afflicted with a condition that this could cure at the expense of increased risk of (even near-guaranteed) cancer long-term, well, you've got a choice between longevity and quality of life.
Maybe this will lead t the zombie apocalypse! BRAINSSSS!
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Having a spinal injury that has left me a paraplegic I wonder if this is the cure, or is it another "cure" like stem cells.
I can see doctors in India, China, and The Dominican Republic charging huge amounts of money to desperate people looking to live a "normal" life.Where we don't have to piss through a tube or deal with the spasms and constant neuropathic pains.
With this latest scientific advance, complaining that your nerves are shot loses all meaning.
It's one thing to regrow an axon in a petri dish. It's something else to regrow a 1m long axon inside a fully developed human body, and have it innervate the same muscle (for example) that the damaged axon connected to. It's not going to be a trivial challenge. This may have an impact in some traumatic injuries where the bundle can be reconnected before it's scarred shut or resorbed. For chronic conditions, this isn't going to have a direct impact in any near future. An exciting development nonetheless. Will have to follow the primary literature that comes from these authors.
First you got to migrate it it to humans.
There there several levels of testing before its even allowed ver much in humans in the US.
Sometimes things will be available abroad before the US if you are lucky. Some spine-damaged patients already try things in Israel and China based on stem cells. but not available in US.
I had a nerve sheath tumor (non cancerous) which the removal of caused nerve damage, so this all is interesting too me.
nerve growth unsuppressed == tumors?
Tumors you can feel.
This. Given that the curve isn't too steep I'll take the increased benefit up to my death.
- Kal`Goblez
So, just before the cancer kill you, you get smart enough to cure it?
Be smarter to rename it just in case.
Its called "sending the kids to summer camp".
Have gnu, will travel.
However, there are plenty of other ways in which this could turn out to have side effects that make it a bad idea. One basic concern is that there is probably a reason why axon growth is supressed in the central nervous system - after all, the brain is amazingly complicated, and all those connections between brain cells need to be of the right kind. If things start connecting where they shouldn't, badness may occur.
Badness? What do you mean? I can't see any reason train station for thinking that badness blue flower grows on hairy rock under snow go flow sew bow ungh ungh ungh hf h90-39cnba7u3g378fuiai7d7yt5dt5cgb7d6rtcviaskdh jd967d0d867djud9 8d,.... 98tqgo0eb9e
How about optic nerves? My dad suffers from glaucoma, which is increased pressure in the eye, slowly damaging the nerves. Result is a slow decrease in vision as the nerves die off...
> One basic concern is that there is probably a reason why axon growth is suppressed...
Right - we need to be careful where this is applied, otherwise people might start thinking with other areas of their bodies. Oh wait...
Or does that kind of genetic manipulation need to take place in the zygote? No, I didn't read the subscription link.
As a paraplegic myself (with spina bifida), I'd say that it's not quite a slam dunk that I'd take the cancer risk. It depends on what the increased risk is. Being a paraplegic certainly isn't a roll in the park, but if I had to chose between that and taking a couple of years to die of cancer, I'd take a pass on the cancer. Of course, my willingness to have the treatment would be inversely proportional to that risk, but if the risk of cancer was increased "tremendously", that's not an acceptable risk (to me). I'm not sure how I'd feel about it if I was a quad, though.
GET TOO DA CHOPPAH!
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Even if it does need to be studied, I think the benefits would outweigh any side effects, as long as we know how to control it effectively. But then again, constant severe pain can be just as debilitating as nerve damage, so take that as you will.
The research out there on neural regrowth in adults is very interesting, because, yes, the classical empirical evidence is that damaged neurons go into apoptosis and are cleaned up by glial cells.
My girlfriend has atypical trigeminal neuralgia and underwent an unsuccessful microvascular decompression on the brainstem (wherein a venous structure was deconstructed and cauterized, a venule was padded with teflon, and a minor arteriole was resectioned and cauterized), followed by a more-successful partial sensory rhizotomy to resection the nerve in Meckel's cave via a 60% cut that ideally would hit most of the group-C fibers. The outcome of the rhizotomy is interesting, because it seemed to take care of the mandibular nerve pain while leading to a very odd outcome. In the vast, vast majority of partial sensory rhizotomies on cranial nerves (meaning more-or-less the ~99% who do not have the horrid-sounding outcome known as anaesthesia dolorosa), the loss of sensation eventually diminishes, as the nerve undergoes restructuring. There seems to be very little information in popular medical literature on the restructuring process, and as I don't have access to any specialized journals (for neurology, neurosurgery, etc.), I cannot find much information; however, it seems to perhaps involve rapid branching of the dendrites in parallel with apoptosis and glial clean-up of damaged neurons. In >90% of rhizotomies, there is little discomfort during this process. My girlfriend is one of the "lucky few" (and by that I mean that her neurosurgeons, Dr. Sekula and Dr. Jannetta, who himself pioneered microvascular decompression and other techniques for trigeminal neuralgia of both types and various types of hemifacial spasm, at Allegheny General Hospital, said they could not even remember the last time they had seen the effect she is experiencing) to have severe discomfort during the restructuring process. This discomfort is a dysthesia characterized by intense sensations of all types from the cranial nerve. She is experiencing sensations of pressure, nociception, touch, and proprioception in all branches of the trigeminal nerve, meaning not only the major three branches (ophthalmic, maxillary, and mandibular), but the minor branches out of Meckel's cave as well. In addition to that, she is having branching across into adjacent cranial nerves. These sensations range from moderately intense to maximally intense (meaning she is experiencing at times the same sensations someone would have if their skull was being crushed to pulp, or face was being cut deeply open in many places, etc.), but at least they can be controlled somewhat by extremely high levels of antiseizure medication. Between the sensations and medication, though, she is effectively completely disabled while the nerve undergoes this type of healing. The good news is that her neurosurgeons have never seen, either themselves or in any journals, a case of this that does not resolve when the restructuring reaches its end-stage, which occurs after six to twelve months. The intermediate time, though, is Hell for her. I would love to see more research done on this, as I would be curious to see if various signalling mechanisms are not genetically nominal in the <10% of cranial nerve rhizotomy patients who have this type of post-procedural effect.
Please, let's continue the research on SOCS3 here, and the other research being done out there on the various other known signalling mechanisms.
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
" Some spine-damaged patients already try things in Israel and China based on stem cells."
none of which is working.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Bad news for wheelchair manufacturers.
Facts are useless, they can be used to prove anything.
I could see one possibility where reconnecting nerves could lead to constant pain and do nothing for any motor functions. In those cases, if the cause of the pain could not be found, the only option would be to cut the newly formed connections.
I think that would fall in the 'Badness' category.
...a method of getting doctors (or the average Joe) to even allow themselves to think about actually preventing to fuck up their own nerves in the first place would be discovered. ^^
It’s nice and all that we can fix everything. But in the long run, what is it teaching us, when we can just ride a pony that’s 300 ft tall and covered in chainsaws, and get away without a scratch afterwards?
Even asking a doc what the cause of your disease is, and how to actually prevent it from happening again, will either make him angry, or not be processed at all. They always just prescribe you “moar ignorance” (e.g. in form of painkillers) or fix the problem in your body. Which by definition only works, until you’r jumping on the pony again. If’s like running against a wall, and getting described painkillers for the headache. And it’s really depressing.
Healing means, that it won’t ever come back! And for nearly all diseases, something like that seems to be “not invented here” for all of the whole medical sector. :(
In the long run, we will just learn to never learn. And work hard to do the opposite of natural selection too.
I wonder when that will break that camel’s back...
P.S.: Hmm, how do you split up long nested sentences like that in English? In German, you can write page-long sentences. But I know how to prevent them. In English I always end up with sentences that I myself have already trouble following while I’m writing them! ^^
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I'm guessing it's far too new to help my mom though. (Who has that. Definitely not a disease to get.)
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
That would be Phenomenal.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
Or maybe there's just no particularly good reason for them to regrow, meaning, an organism with a badly damaged brain is in dire shape, and unlikely to live long enough to reproduce. Now, that answer sucks from a "But I don't wanna die!" perspective, but evolution doesn't care about that.
Now, humans, being a pretty cheeky bunch, have no problem looking at this as a challenge to be overcome, and due to the fact that we can provide an individual with time and the proper environment to recover from this kind of injury. We can just come along, say "Gee, may have made sense 10,000 years ago when we were swinging from trees, but now why don't we fix this and let Bill recover instead".
Brain injuries like that are rare enough and (without care) fatal enough that we may just have never evolved a repair mechanism, because it didn't grant much of an advantage in survival.
Or maybe it'll make our brains grow uncontrollably until our eyes pop out and our skulls crack open. Could go either way I suppose....
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
Did you realize you have a gene that is preventing you from getting bigger? Not anymore with our patented treatment of gene deletion you can enhance your manhood in no time. Order for yourself or your man now to get rush delivery in time for the best holiday season ever!
Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment - Zemfram Cochrane
Of course, maybe there is a way to let the broken axons regrow like TFA says...
Could this somehow be used to help re-grow the axons myelin coating without causing the axons themselves to grow, in order to treat MLS patients?
I can't RTFA so I'll rely on those smarter than me on here for an educated guess/answer: Could this help my son with Cebral Palsy (resulting from diffuse periventricular leukomalacia), or are stem cells still the best bet? I know it's hard to determine without specifics, but a good guess would help. Thanks.
I've always held that cancer holds within it the secret to immortality. Aging is caused by cells stopping reproduction over time, in cancer reproduction is turned back on and occurs without any regulation. Viable life walks that razors edge between too much and not enough cell reproduction. Find a way to better control it, and cancer-like turning off of the telomeres could be use to extend life.
In another Zen-like turnabout, if viruses could be modified to make them accurately target only diseased cells, then viruses could be used to cure disease instead of causing it, e.g. a variant of Herpes virus could be used to target cancerous cells (and would remain in the system to deal with a remission should it occur.)
Yes, these are pie-in-the-sky crackpot theories, but the point is that there is no telling what we might make possible by studying these phenomena.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
So does this go beyond repair? Can the nerves be enhanced? For example, not everyone is built the same...down...there... Not everyone is as sensitive as the other. So could this technology be used to create new nerves?
Just image a new wave of spam!
I can finally be a surgeon!
Oops. Nurse, a squirt of neuron-grow right there please.
science makes great strides towards achieving the forthcoming zombie apocalypse
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
>These sensations range from moderately intense to maximally intense
You know, with this type of affliction, even though temporary, would lead me to conduct
my own experiment, had you tried stimulating her clitoris while this was in effect happening,
I wonder if the sensations being maximized, would have overpowered all others
and made the only sensation that which was the most pleasing (due to the endorphins)
Can they regrow damaged liver cells too?
To speculate further, perhaps some individuals have developed synesthesia after minor brain damage triggered a short regeneration cycle? Also, what happens in the brain during a coma? Why do some comatose people wake up years later, while other take only days?
had you tried stimulating her clitoris while this was in effect happening....
Perhaps you really are so very interested in the neuroscience that this seems, to you, like a pragmatic and reasonable 'experiement.' However, the parent post mentioned later in his discussion that the lady is undergoing, from time to time, experiences equivalent to feeling your skull crushed or your face deeply cut time and again. 'Offering' to conduct an experiment during these types of experiences by means of sexually stimulating a part of her genitalia seems tasteless at best.
... even for the internet.
There is a place and time for crude humor, or even just sexual humor, but regarding a serious neuro-disability and the painful hell a person is going through to cope with it is neither that time nor place. If you sincerely feel the need to induce an endorphin effect on a girl while she is undergoing intense pain, perhaps next time you should consider stimulating something other than her genitalia, as that just sounds perverse
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
That way he can get his spine fixed and I can get my $7.50 back.
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
I think we should keep in mind that this is a purely hypothetical situation. No one is proposing that we cure paralysis by causing cells to overexpress cancer-causing proteins and just hope for the best! From the abstract:
Together, our results suggest that compromised responsiveness to injury-induced growth factors in mature neurons contributes significantly to regeneration failure. Thus, developing strategies to modulate negative signaling regulators may be an efficient strategy of promoting axon regeneration after CNS injury.
Much more likely is that someone will find a drug, if it hasn't already been found, that can be transiently applied to the broken axons. That wouldn't "increase one's risk of cancer tremendously."
This is cold news... If you're really interested in neurology, read real journals not "The Globe and Mail". Check this paper published in 2006: http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/reprint/26/21/5591.pdf or http://archiv.ethlife.ethz.ch/e/articles/campuslife/bf07querschnittl.html
Poor you for thinking I was being humorous about this. I t is a well documented fact that sexual activity , especially any involving direct stimulation of the clitoris in the woman, ( some even the g-spot) tend to release endorphins that help mask the pain, in men, this can also be observed when a man watches a porno, as men are more visual then women (don't know why...) they to tend to release endorphins, being able to even trigger an orgasm just by watching.
I have taken quite a few sex-ed classes in university, especially following the works of such as Masters and Johnson link here.
I take slight insult to your stab at me, however, your ignorance that such a field of expertise exists would let me pardon you for such a blunder.
ps - if you must know, the orgasmic kama sutra practice of finding a constant state of arousal
and even sometimes release, is based on oxygen manipulation as well as constant endorphin agitation. Both of these end up creating the "vibe" needed to get release....however, once the release has been obtained, the state quickly dissipates and would therefor not be practical to actually go to the point of orgasm, merely right before it, if you wanted to try and see what sort of pain killing properties sexual meditation has.
just my 2.5 cents
Actually, for the record, when the sensations back off a bit, my^H^Hthe person mentioned in the beginning of this thread actually does^H^H^H^Hprobably would find both relief and enjoyment. Sexual stimulation releases not only endorphins, but is an excellent psychological distraction.
--orange^H^H^H^H^H^HSomeone other than the author of the GGGP (I swear!)
Until Algernon dies.
"But this one goes to 11!"
Kudos to my alma mater, Carleton U! :D
I have to wonder if there will be some branching development of this that could be used to treat people who suffer from Multiple Sclerosis.
WTF?
I really wanted to see percentages in parentheses.
I'm sure this is also going to vary based upon the level of disability. A C1-2 Quad already has so many possible health risks that a tremendous increase in cancer actually represents an increase if life expectancy. I will leave the quality of life debate for someone else, too many variables and too many different levels of each condition.
So, just before the cancer kill you, you get smart enough to cure it?
This has been used as a plot element for a graphic novel character (at least once). See "Empowered" by Alan Moore.
Caution: Graphics and dialog are not safe for work.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
... this approach on the other hand involves stimulating existing nerve cells to row more axons which are the electrical connections between nerve cells.
Which is particularly interesting because (if I understand it correctly) the initial growth of a long axon involves the nerve cell starting where the axon will end, crawling amoeba-style to the vicinity where the (multiple) dendrites will hook up while stringing the axon out behind it, then settling in and putting out the web of dendrites and making synapses for the incoming signals and logic.
This implies a second mechanism for re-wiring a new axon when the old one gets cut. (Though perhaps it's a longer-range variant on a usually short-range mechanism for hooking up the axon locally at the start of the cable-stringing process.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
this would help for a more speedy recovery link www.get-fitt.com
(one emergency lobotomy later) "Right, I'm inspector Lookout of the Yard, I understand there's been a murder."
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
That's mainly because they don't work, and are horribly dangerous.
I doubt this hypothesis for the following reason: the difference between "minor" and "major" brain damage is one of scale, not a qualitative difference. Young animals are treated roughly, injured by their peers and predators more or less constantly. Among humans, minor brain injury resulting in the individual in question just being a bit stupid or clumsy for the rest of their lives is shockingly common, and incredibly so in agrarian societies: the village idiot wasn't always born that way. Having a disability like that is a great breeding disadvantage.
The ability to heal these types of injuries to a greater degree than we do now would be a significant advantage. Then again, so would eyes in the back of our heads, but we don't have those either.
You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
That way he can get his spine fixed and I can get my $7.50 back.
Not so fast, in the future, government controls medicine...
(the future is about 2 years away)
tl;dr
While it might help, the girlfriend apparently has bad headaches though...
Harder to get in the mood.
FWIW after an orgasm, there is a rise of prolactin which can make neurons grow in the olfactory bulb.
Being a paraplegic certainly isn't a roll in the park
Depends whether you have a wheelchair or not, I guess...
(sorry!)
Karma be damned, just wanted to give kudos to you for being so involved in your girlfriend's illness. If only we could all be so strong.
That way he can get his spine fixed and I can get my $7.50 back.
Not so fast, in the future, government controls medicine...
(the future is about 2 years away)
Get out of our thread, poli-troll!
(Also, there have never been any serious proposals to eliminate private healthcare. Even communist China has private medicine.)
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose