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IPv4 Will Not Die In 2010
darthcamaro writes "A couple of years ago, the big shots at IANA (that's the people that handle internet addressing) issued a release stating that the IPv4 address space was likely to be gone by 2010. Here we are in 2010 and guess what, IPv4 with its 4.3 billion addresses will NOT be all used up this year. In fact there could be another two years worth of addresses still left at this point. 'We're at about 10.2 percent (IPv4 address space) remaining globally,' John Curran, president and CEO of ARIN said. 'At our current trend rate we've got about 625 days before we will not have new IPv4 addresses available. We're still handling IPv4 requests from ISPs, hosting companies and large users for IPv4 address space, but that's a very short time period.'"
IPv4 doesn't die - it just runs out of available addresses.
IPv4 not dying... Enterprise Networking Planet confirms it!
That just doesn't have the same ring to it. ):
THL phish sticks
Another two years? Good, now we can all can put off panicking for another two years and not do anything to resolve this in the meantime.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Does this imply that the value of latexcybersluts.com will increase, because someone (like Goldman Sachs) may buy the domain to reuse its IP address, thereby also stealing customers who use IP bookmarks?
If you are launching a site and there's no IPs around, will a value of $10-20 be unstomachable?
Will we see offers going out from ISPs to owners of little-visited domains asking if they would be interested in a buyback?
Solution: We need IP trading exchanges!
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"...At our current trend rate we've got about 625 days before we will not have new IPv4 addresses available..."
I think this:http://www.xkcd.com/605/ sums it up
Domain squatters and the like use one IP (and one server) for thousands and thousands of domains. They're parasites but they're not using anything like a significant fraction of the available IP space.
lern 2 internets
THL phish sticks
Thanks to Apache and the miracle of Virtual Servers, one can use one IPv4 address to host thousands of domains! This depends on HTTP1.1, though, and old browsers can't handle it, but nobody cares about them.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name#Use_in_web_site_hosting
In conclusion, your argument is invalid.
For context, click Parent.
...if we actually went after those who currently hold "monster" /8 and even /16 blocks that aren't doing squat (pun intended) with them.
I found my college campus computer lab has all of their workstations on the live Internet. No shit. Turned off the XP firewall and I'm pinging it. Props for them actually USING part of the monster /16 block they're assigned, but damn, talk about a Security nightmare...
ONOZ! RUN! 2012 is also coming in the internet world! Well, more seriously, there is IPv6 so we don't have to worry for now(except for the harder to memorize addresses of the IPv6) I wonder how much we have left of IPv6? Maybe 2-3 decades? nahhh lets just wait until we have less than 10%(IPv6 Addresses) to make speculations.
We'll never be able to justify the cost of implementing IPv6 properly until it becomes something customers are demanding, and that won't happen until there is stuff on the Internet people want that to reach couldn't get hold of an IPv4 address.
Still, I suppose I just have to be patient.
Big F...ing deal! How many predictions are accurate for three or more years? The original prediction was made in May, 2007 and current prediction has slipped the date from December 2, 2010 to November 18, 2012 not quite a 2 years. I challenge anyone to find accurate predictions that are 3 1/2 years old.
We need to be moving to IPV6 as quickly as possible. We may have a bit longer than was predicted 3 1/2 years ago. The thing that is scary is have we made much progress in moving to IPV6 in the last 3 1/2 year? I think not much. So, whatever the actual exhaustion dates are for IPV4 address. We can be certain that we are 3 1/2 years closer than we were and we have done almost nothing to prepare.
Hasn't this story appeared previously (over and over again)? It sounds like peak oil.
That's the point at which IANA is no longer the one handing out addresses. It's also the point at which the market for IP addresses opens, and companies start selling subnets.
There aren't 4.3 billion Internet facing IP addresses. The bulk are held and used internally by companies (for no good reason). People complain about NAT all the time, but it works. How many Internet facing IP addresses are used by Google's quarter million servers?
$ host google.com
google.com has address 64.233.169.104
google.com has address 64.233.169.105
google.com has address 64.233.169.106
google.com has address 64.233.169.147
google.com has address 64.233.169.99
google.com has address 64.233.169.103
Does any company really need more than a /29 subnet?
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
So it's all good.
Seriously random calendar rolling over, IPv4 addresses running out. At the same time! Proof that Jesus is coming back in 2012!?!
...another financial crisis. Because that's the reason there was a slump in allocation rates. The current best projection for IANA pool exhaustion is Sep/Oct 2011. Without the financial crisis that would have been end of 2010. The IANA guys would have been dead on, if not for a once in a 100 years financial event.
/8 is theoretically usable, even before subtracting the legacy allocations. The summary makes it sound like it was a doom-and-gloom prediction that didn't happen to be true, but that's not the case.
The tone of the submission is really silly. There wasn't 4.3B allocatable addresses in the first place. Out of the 256 "/8s" only 219.914
Also, it's "not the next 2 or 3 years", based on the available number of addresses 1.5 years for the IANA pool and 2,5 years are hard bars until RIRs (regional internet registries) run out.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Entertainingly, we are moving to ipv6 as quickly as possible.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
If you'd read the Domain Tasting wiki article rather that just ranting, you would have found the following:
In short, not only have you mis-understood how many IPs the abusers are using (as others have pointed out), you're also behind the times for what people are doing about that behaviour.
I predict that 2012 we will still have available IPv4 addresses.
This will happen because some IPv4 addresses will be reallocated as client-side doesn't need IPv4 addresses in IPv6 to access IPv4 resources. So IPv6 adaptation it self will slow the need to migrate to IPv6 as singular Internet Protocol.
Whether or not the issue will be forced, the problem is that for most of the developing world they already are either running out or pretty damn close. Because of this, if the US doesn't jump on the band wagon we will continue to be outpaced by countries like China that are already neck deep in rolling out IPv6. This isn't a matter of when, just if, and really ought to be done gradually, but quickly, rather than wait till a moment to be forced. I encourage anyone that can to move as quick as they can towards this rather than sit and wait and watch the world pass them by.
The musings of just another geek and his junk.
I have 12 domains on one IP. Not to say that the different squatters aren't using a bunch though.
Better would be to pull back IPs from the folks who don't need them.
What about that block that the Ham Radio guys had out in San Francisco that was hijacked by the spammers? Or the companies and governments that have thousands of unused IPs? I used to work at one government place (contractor) and we had a large chunk for our site with about 2,000 employees.
Where I work, we have 1,200 people in the company and we use four NAT'd IP addresses. Since I have to add them to my server to allow admin access to my tools, I know which ones I use.
[John]
Shit better not happen!
Doesn't Nortel have an entire class A network (47.x.x.x) to itself? Having that returned to the pool after the death roll is complete should presumably buy a little time?
(I guess that falls into the "On the other hand, ARIN is also having some success in reclaiming unused IPv4 address space back from organizations that aren't using all of their addresses." line from the article?)
You're correct... I'm careful to point out the uncertainty when doing the interviews, but reporters tend to lock onto the IPv4 depletion countdown number regardless...
IPX won't die in 2010, either.
But, in all seriousness, there's a few things to remember here.
1. The v4 address space will be exhausted in the foreseeable future.
2. Reclaiming large blocks only delays that inevitability by a few months.
3. With a few exceptions, modern, supported OSes (Windows [2003, 2008, Vista, 7], GNU/Linux, all of the BSDs, OS X) support IPv6 perfectly.
4. Most of the critical applications support IPv6 perfectly.
5. The big holdup on the consumer side has been with the ISPs. The DOCSIS 3.0 roll-out is ongoing in many places.
6. The US government has mandated it. The compliance date was in 2008 for all of the Federal agencies on their backbones. It's just a matter now of getting ISP access to those sites, and configuring lower-level systems.
The luddite attitude here about this is amazing. If you're really all that concerned about it, and don't want to focus too much on the nuts-and-bolts, here's some advice: Learn BIND. Setting up your resolvers properly will spare you headaches.
I use IPv6 every day. I get lots of e-mail over IPv6 (netbsd and freebsd mailing lists, to name just a couple). I enjoy being able to ssh to all of my machines at home directly. It's here. Evaluate your crap, and see what's not going to work. Plan to replace that stuff. Most of it probably will need replacing by the time you get assigned a /64 or /48 by your ISP, anyway. This isn't rocket science. /rant
Maybe THIS is the end of the world everyone's talking about...
No.
Model which is used to predict the time when IPv4 addresses run out is actually quite good. See here: http://www.inetcore.com/project/ipv4ec/index_en.html
For ipv6 to get widespread use there has to be a killer app that people (businesses or consumers) want or think they must have. I don't mean what geeks want or think they must have. The masses of sheeple are perfectly happy if everything is NAT'd.
I have no idea what this app may be, but it could be some cloud service that everyone wants and is only made available via ipv6 technology. Customers will demand that ISPs support it so they can use the product.
migration away from ipv4 for strictly technical reasons is not going to happen. By the time the killer app comes along it may be something other than ipv6 that takes over. Whatever happens it will not be for technical reasons or to make the network "better" it will be because clueless people want it.
no, really? AGAIN?
One more thing to worry about in 2012!
Pfffft!
Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
speaking honestly from a position of ignorance on the issue: is there anything about the ipv6 spec that lends itself better to censorship and control? in other words, could china or iran do their authoritarian bullshit easier with ipv6 than with ipv4?
depending upon the answer, i will either support ipv6 adaptation, or fight giving up ipv4 until the bitter end
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I thought they were people who managed "I am not a ..." jokes. You know, like "IANAL" and "IANACS" and so on.
I always wondered who managed all those "not me" acronyms. Guess I'll have to keep wondering. Maybe it's Taco.
...of deploying IPv6? Two years isn't that much time, and I haven't heard much of when IPv6 will be the new standard.
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
I predict that in eight years the president of the USA will not be Barack Obama. (no caveats, no small print)
My ISP changed their network a couple of months ago. I have broadband, what they call broadband anyways, but now they only assign local addresses (192.168.x.x) to our home computers and proxy our shit... pisses me off, but what can I do, Im locked into an email address I dont want to change...
We can finally assign an IP address to every atom on the Earth. That should take care of things. At the rate the Earth is collecting space dust though we would run out of IPv6 addresses on May 4th 2022. Time for IPv8. We can base it on veggie juice.
"speaking honestly from a position of ignorance on the issue: is there anything about the ipv6 spec that lends itself better to censorship and control?" - by circletimessquare (444983) on Friday January 08, @10:05AM (#30694520) Homepage
See subject-line above. IPv6 makes you far more "trackable" than IPv4 ever did.
Why is it that, whenever something is supposed to happen, it's perpetually 2 years from now? This seems like a pretty common phenomenon in tech - mostly due to the vanishing point for new tech being several years (startups tend to not last very long, so having 2 years of R&D on something usually means it will never be finished). Anyone got other examples/ideas?
Yet Another Tech Blog
(but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
A simple solution to reclaim unused blocks of addresses would be to allow/encourage people/ companies to sell their class B or class C net blocks if they are not using them. I have a class C net block that I do not use. I got it years ago when all you had to do was fill in the form. At the time I got several companies class B net blocks. I suspect that there are many net blocks that were allocated in the late 80;s, early 90's that are not used or are used in a very limited way.
If we allowed people to sell their net blocks like people can sell their domain names on ebay I suspect that many of these unused blocks of addresses would be put back into the pool of available addresses.
RLH
then fuck ipv6
and welcome to the age of subnets
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
We need more ipv6 only torrents.
There are going to be lots of little solutions that will stretch out IPv4 for a while.
One that I came up would be to offer a financial incentive to reclaim unused blocks of addresses. Ten or fifteen years ago, IP address space was handed out like candy. You could get a class C block readily, and class B blocks just needed a little justification. I did some contract work in the late 90s for a company that I still keep up with, and they have a few entire C nets in their possession and not in use. Now how do we get these back? There is going to be demand for IP addresses, and as the supply becomes more and more limited, that demand will make people desperate.
So why not let people who already have address space sell what they have? It does reward unrightfully holding onto stuff, but if these addresses are needed, then hey!
if ipv6 makes you more trackable, or not, or if there is any privacy issues with ipv4 versus ipv6, this is apparently a complex question whose answer someone a lot wiser than me on the subject matter should study. maybe ipv6 is neutral, i don't know. but whatever the answer is, it decides the fate of ipv4. because i and many others will fight ipv6 if it indeed allows for more centralized authority. or maybe ipv6 is neutral, in which case i don't care either way
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You mean just like they said here?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
I think we could probably go a lot longer if places like the University where I used to work didn't just hand out "real" IP's on their DHCP for a full Class C. I cringed every time I thought about the security issues of having a "real" IP for every PC on campus. Who also wouldn't allow firewalls, even Windows firewall, because it would impede their port scans.. sigh.. but I digress..
I'm sure the registries will drag things out, pulling back some blocks, making it harder and more expensive to get new allocations etc, and putting pressure on organizations to cut down their IP usage.
In the meantime, there is still very little support for IPv6 out there...
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Once again, I'll ask a simple question:
How long until it is possible to pull up the main page on Slashdot, using nothing but IPv6 packets?
IMHO, every time one of these "OMFG IPv4 gonna run out RSN!!!1!11!" stores hits the front page, the Slashcrew should have to state where THEY are in becoming IPv6, and what is preventing them from doing so already.
www.eFax.com are spammers
If you're using a 15 year old browser, you get what you deserve.. ;)
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
Apparently, my wireless ADSL modem router (a Fritz!box 7270) has default support, and so does Windows 7. I didn't enable it either on my router nor on my Windows Laptop. Yet, I am currently assigned both a IPv4 and an IPv6 address. Of course, my ISP doesn't offer it, so I guess this would just be useful for communication within my LAN. Is it normal now that home routers offer IPv6 addresses or is the Fritz!box an exception? Who else has IPv6 on the network without excessive configurations/upgrades?
They say you could post a cure to cancer to the net and nobody would notice. Similarly, one Jim Fleming in Chicago has hacked the IP header to get workable 34 bit addressing. He just found 3 more intrnets worth of addresses. Folow @techno_cat on twitter for details.
Need Mercedes parts ?
If you haven't seen this yet you might want to read it: http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html
Need Mercedes parts ?
That's pretty damned insightful... If the underground file scene went IPv6 that would actually drive some adoption.
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
Look at the criticisms google staffers noted: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-mZo69JQoLb8/google_ipv6_conference_2008_what_will_the_ipv6_internet_look_like/
I don't expect to ever use v6. There's just no need and won't work for a very very very long time if at all.
Need Mercedes parts ?
That is what the Mayan predicted.... the end of the world (IPv4 running out of addresses)... on December 21, 2012.
and that won't happen until there is stuff on the Internet people want that to reach couldn't get hold of an IPv4 address.
You mean like http://freeipv6porn.com/ ?
Individual nations could always mandate switching like they did with digital TV
Transfers outside of the community adopted policies are fraud, report them here https://www.arin.net/resources/fraud/ and watch the resources be reclaimed. To the extent that you think the policy should/should not be changed, then get involved on the ARIN public policy process https://www.arin.net/participate/index.html. /John
I dont see that ever happening. If theres money to be made in re-selling your ip address, ISPS will just put us all behind NAT and sell their IP space. Not to mention all the big companies that own /8 blocks that could easily sell off large chunks.
If anything I just see an extension to DNS coming out that allows you to point a domain name to some kind of IP:NATIP block, and maybe even integrating ports in there.
Check this site to see how many days and IP's are left: http://inetcore.com/project/ipv4ec/index_en.html
Storm
If most IANA analysts watched a puppy growing the the first month of its life, they'd conclude that it'll be a 400-foot tall monster trashing downtown Tokyo in two years.
Can somebody with knowledge please explain why we need to ditch IPv4 instead of just layering on top of it? Most private networks have a tree topology, which implies a single entry/exit point for traffic bound for the rest of the Internet. There's absolutely no need for any entity to have more than a single IP. The internal hosts can be publicized via some new mapping/routing protocol which sits on top of IPv4. In other words, push IPv4 one click down the network stack and build a larger address space on top of it. Why can't we do this?
Here's a list of some key security flaws to look out for. The first four are all related to the IP type 0 routing header feature:
1. Trespassing
IPv6's advanced network discovery lets you select the path for your packets, but it could also let an attacker go where he or she should not go. "You can have them reach places they should not reach, and interact with equipment not in direct sight," according to Biondi and Ebalard. And an attacker could drill down and get more information on your remote networks, too.
2. Filtering device bypass
Many currently-installed filtering devices, such as firewalls, were not designed for IPv6. DMZ protection for IPv6 traffic varies in many products, as does firewall filtering of IPv6 packets. Experts worry that with such devices in place, an attacker could hide traffic or a payload using Route Header 0.
3. Denial-of-service (DOS)
DOS attacks can occur when IPv6 packets are sent back and forth through the same link until they overwhelm bandwidth. And you know what can happen after that -- not just the service disruption itself, but other attacks that are masked by the DOS.
"According to Philippe, you can mark a single packet such that it'll go around and around and around in these huge routing loops, such that a single packet will be able to consume far more link bandwidth than it could have previously," says Dan Kaminsky, director of penetration testing services for IOActive. "An 88x bandwidth amplifier is actually a fairly big deal, and will allow someone with a 1.5Mbit link to kill a 100Mbit upstream. That would be pretty bad."
4. Anycast: Not safe anymore
"Anycast works by announcing the same IP at many places on Internet so that each box can go to the nearest one," explains Biondi and Ebalard.
Trouble is, IPv6's routing header 0 feature "can single out all instances of an anycast service," according to the French researchers, and basically negate the benefits of anycasting.
The researchers concluded that IPv6's type 0 routing headers "have no applications, and only bring security issues." The only way to protect yourself for now is to disallow "RH0" in your network, and to prevent your host systems from processing it as well, they said.
5. IPv6 puts IPv4 at risk
There are bigger-picture problems than routing headers. Once you enable IPv6, you may open up your IPv4 network and devices to its vulnerabilities as well. This is a hot button for service providers testing out IPv6, but the problem applies to enterprises with large WANs also, says Nicholas Fischbach, senior manager of network engineering/security for COLT Telecom Group plc (Nasdaq: COLT; London: CTM.L).
"Turn on IPv6, and a number of DOS conditions may put your revenue- generating [IPv4] backbone at risk," Fischbach says.
And IPv6 isn't just a network issue, either. "It will also impact security devices, operating systems, and applications," he says. "Making an application IPv6-ready requires changes, some minor, some major, depending on the application and how it's written. But at the end of the day, it could mean another exposure of a security hole that no one thought of, or [had] only fixed in the IPv4 part."
Kelly Jackson Higgins, Senior Editor, Dark Reading
From http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:aDqU_9rcWCMJ:www.darkreading.com/security/perimeter/showArticle.jhtml%3FarticleID%3D208804503+%22IPv6%22+and+%22security%22&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
... I like to call them "flaming barricades"... is that they come with their own set of weird problems. Need to go "back to your PC" at home? Oops. Trying to do a BitTorrent download? You'll need to dick around with your firewall. And if you have firewalls at each machine? And you want to share files among them? Ruh-roh. Etc, etc.
Your point is valid - NAT wasn't really meant to be a security solution. But there are tradeoffs with firewalls too.
IPv4 should be enough for anyone!
IPv4 will last a lot longer than expected or desired. Short term, the price of a fixed IP address will shoot up like a rocket. So why would an ISP want to spend money to devalue that?
This will drive a new method of finding a way to link a URL to a non-static IP address, and the change in the flow of money will make a lot of us think "why didn't I think of that?"
Hey, most people just Google the site name anyway, so as long as you tell Google what today's IP address is, you don't need static.
Place nail here >+
http://asert.arbornetworks.com/2009/09/who-put-the-ipv6-in-my-internet/
The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
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Watch this Heartland Institute video