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Is Gawker's "Apple Tablet Scavenger Hunt" Illegal?
theodp writes "Not too surprisingly, Apple was not amused by Valleywag's announcement of an Apple Tablet Scavenger Hunt, which offered cash prizes ranging from 10K-100K for info about the much-anticipated new Apple device. The promo prompted a threatening cease-and-desist letter from Apple's lawyers, which Valleywag deemed the most concrete evidence yet that there may indeed be a tablet in the works. But is the Scavenger Hunt really illegal, as the attorney claimed? The jury's still out, but Slate concludes Apple's got a pretty good case, although it notes that Valleywag's unconventional Scavenger Hunt 'stunt' may not really be all that different from 'reporting' practiced by mainstream publications like the WSJ."
The whole idea behind this question is to show that offering to pay someone to do something illegal is, in itself, illegal. Now are they asking someone to do something illegal? That is another question. In order to deliver the information they seek, is the party required to do something illegal? Surely it may be something where a civil law suit may result, but is such law limited to criminal acts?
If they had actually _required_ that submissions be obtained within the bounds of the law, there's nothing Apple could have remotely done to them about this, even if they don't happen to like it.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Now that their controlled leaks (reference) has created too much hype, Apple is leaking in their pants and fear that the thing will go too far. If would be Apple, I would say Good luck to Gawker and thanks for all the free publicity.
I completely agree. Personally I'm getting sick of all of these apple tablet articles that seem to get posted at least once every 5 hours.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
The Apple tablet will feature a 9.5'' by 7.5'' display using a new version of E-Ink(TM) technology through which the tablet will display color while having the display consume no power unless something changes. There will be an integrated and optimized sleep mode which the tablet can fall into while maintaining a color picture, and this mode takes a mere 135 ms to get out of, so even applications like slideshows will use it. The processor has multiple power modes, allowing it to go between 500 MHz and 3.7 GHz depending on the task. Expected battery life, with all this, is 18-36 hours of average use. The screen will contain piezoelectric materials that can add a tactile layer to the onscreen keyboard. Professional typists have been found to be 80-90% as effective with this keyboard as with a traditional one, and thanks to ridges being put onto window edges and buttons blind people are seeing a GUI productivity increase of 300-400%.
What do you mean, that's all bullshit? Prove it! I'll be collecting my prize for now.
Ooh, Apple is building some next generation super-secret technology and even speaking about it will get you lawyered into oblivion. They're just artificially creating marketing hype.
"Ben Sheffner is an attorney at NBC Universal"
Which explains the bias I detected in the article. I repeatedly found the examples he used to support Apple's hypothetical "case" to be missing key details.
That's not to say Apple doesn't have a case (I have no idea really) but I'm always suspicious of people who intentionally omit important details.
"Now, they may *possibly* be asking people to break and NDA, but that would be a civil matter, not a criminal one, and therefore it wouldn't be illegal."
Ummm.... inducement to break an NDA violates a civil statute. Therefore by definition it is illegal. Thus the civil penalties. It is simply not a criminal act under the Calif. code cited.
They're encouraging people to divulge internal information about a company that a company itself isn't willing to make publicly available yet. It'd be like AMD making a contest to confirm wild speculation and to divulge information about new Intel chips. It's more or less a corporate espionage contest. Nowhere is it even close to a media outlet paying for pictures or an exclusive. It's asking people to subvert information about upcoming Apple products. The lawyers at Apple are likely are doing Valleywag a favor by telling them to pull the contest. The blog would be liable for instigating and promoting the stunt. To me, it'd be like a radio station telling people to hold their piss for a Wii (did happen, a lady died, and the radio company paid money). It's just a bad idea.
Hang on.. I'm just posting an article about how sick people are of aPple tAbleT stories.
.... to car magazines paying a bounty for pix of yet to be released models?
So in your world, telling someone about a company's products is the same as murder?
Um, no. GP said nothing of the sort. GP in fact said nothing about the severity of the crime. If you want to make a real comparison, ask yourself if hiring someone to murder is illegal, as murder is illegal.
Or you could baselessly insult a commenter that didn't even attempt to make factual statements, and in fact is clearly just raising questions.
Now are they asking someone to do something illegal?
Such as?
Last time I checked, telling people about a company's product isn't illegal.
Now, they may *possibly* be asking people to break and NDA, but that would be a civil matter, not a criminal one, and therefore it wouldn't be illegal.
You seem to have missed the question mark, noting that GP was asking a question not making a statement of fact.
On topic, to me this seems a bit grey. Obtaining information about Apple's tablet is not illegal in and of itself - There are certainly ways to obtain the information that are illegal, but it is not clear that there are no ways to do so legally.
IANAL but this could be considered "Corporate Espionage" which could be illegal because depending on how you look at it the fact they are offering cash for trade secrets, corporate secrets and otherwise proprietary information may be considered bribery (although bribery is rarely made public like this)
I'd wager it's illegal - the "prize" is really just an open bounty on industrial espionage. Not sure, but that sounds pretty illegal to me. This isn't a scavenger hunt for "an apple, a blue dress, and page 297 from the phone book". This is the hunt for corporate secrets. Pretty clear cut to me and I'd image that high priced lawyers can make it even more clear cut than I can.
While Apple may be keeping it under wraps, it is still conceivable that Apple may expose someone to the tablet without making them sign an NDA. A preemptive lawsuit ASSUMES that everyone that knows about the tablet is under NDA, but you can never make that assumption.
If this scavenger hunt is illegal, it would also be illegal for me to offer $10k to anyone who brings me the top-secret Microsoft Phone. For it to be illegal, Apple has to admit that there are specific NDAs stopping their employees from saying anything about their tablet. Without official confirmation of a specific NDA, there's no reason this should be illegal. I don't know that there could be NDAs for the Microsoft Phone, so why should it be illegal to offer a reward for it?
Now, they may *possibly* be asking people to break and NDA, but that would be a civil matter, not a criminal one, and therefore it wouldn't be illegal.
The legal problem is not the NDA, but opening a trade secret to the public. Both doing it and inducing a person to do so is illegal under Californian law.
Yes... Most of the people with "inside" info are going to be under confidentiality cracks.
What if someone isn't? What if someone made a mistake, and a person has the goods or has seen or come into detailed info about the goods, who isn't under any contract?
For example, someone with inside info, or a prototype could have already (accidentally) broke their agreement, and inadvertently revealed info to a friend, family member, or other third-party, who has not signed any secrecy agreement.
Or have inadvertently placed the item or the material in a place where someone who didn't sign any contracts could legally get a peek at it.
Materials containing sensitive info could have accidentally been thrown away without destruction at some facility, allowing someone to root in the dumpster outside and get legit info...
With the scavenger hunt on, now there is much more incentive for such a person (who isn't under NDA), to spill the beans.
I'm not sure of Apple's security practices, but now, they probably need to be even more careful than ever before to protect the secrecy.
Now there is a real financial incentive for someone having no formal NDA in place, to do the immoral thing.
Last time I checked, telling people about a company's product isn't illegal.
IANAL, but I can read Wikipedia (emphasis added):
Another significant development in U.S. law is the Economic Espionage Act of 1996 (18 U.S.C. 1831–1839), which makes the theft or misappropriation of a trade secret a federal crime. This law contains two provisions criminalizing two sorts of activity. The first, 18 U.S.C. 1831(a), criminalizes the theft of trade secrets to benefit foreign powers. The second, 18 U.S.C. 1832, criminalizes their theft for commercial or economic purposes. (The statutory penalties are different for the two offenses.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_secrets
So, as an example, if Apple could argue that the information in question is a trade secret (and they have done so in the past) then divulging that information may very well be a crime.
PS: You should work on your reading comprehension before you go around calling people idiots.
I think if the nature of Apple's controlled leaks gets to be put up for grabs here, then what defense does Apple have?
Quite frankly I just want Apple to shit or get off the pot. It's been nearly a decade and a half that the supposed tablet's been rumored. Let's either get it out or say once adn for all, "NO."
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I'm pretty sure most of us have been tired of small minded insecure bigots for a lot longer than this.
Don't think of it as a flame, more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage.
This may be a bit off topic - but don't people have better things to do? I, for one, will likely come across one of the many news stories that are sure to be published if/when Apple releases this thing. At that point, I will read the story, read reviews, visit Apple's web site, and determine if this device is something I would like to purchase.
Until then, I'm going to go do other things.
Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
It's possible to find this information legally.
There's certain places in the world that have different views on IP law, and while contractually bound from doing such a thing here, such provision might not hold up there.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
It is fully within Apple's right to send the cease-and-desist letters to Valleywag. Its basically telling them "if you continue this, we will sue you for damages, and we will win." I see no action taken by the attorney general on anyone's behalf, since almost all speech -- even speech prohibited by another party by contract -- is protected by the US constitution. However, the constitution does not protect you from the consequences of that speech, including being sued for large sums of money.
What if Valleywag received word that Apple was using lead and arsenic in their new tablet product. How could it be illegal for them to publish this information?
6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
In order for something to be a trade secret, they have to keep it secret. A photo snapped in public should be clear for publication.
"It would not be possible for Noah to do in our day what he was permitted to do in his own...The inspector would come and examine the Ark, and make all sorts of objections." -- Mark Twain
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Its not illegal to take a picture of Steve Jobs stuck in traffic and deciding to fire up his iTablet to pass the time.
Nothing in the original offer (see 1st link in story) said that someone had to break in, or break a NDA or any such.
Opening a trade secret is also not against the law once the trade secret somehow leaves the private offices of the holder. You can't hire buglers, but you can hire long-lens photographers.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Only if apple keeps it absolute secret. Drive one down the street to Steve's house and you pretty much gave up secrecy. Hold it up by a window while training "Geniuses", ditto.
The key word is "Theft". It is not at all clear that a photograph is theft. If it were there would be no paparazzi in California.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Can you sue someone for something that does not exist? So far Apple denies the existance of a tablet what ground do they have to go after this hunt for information?
Get used to it. It is exactly the same kind of campaign /. ran the six months before (and two years after, too) the iPhone came out. They are getting paid to feature articles about Apple products. It is the only way to explain why there have been hundreds of iPhone articles and about one (1) about N900 which is a phone that kicks iPhone's butt in every possible way. With free software to boot. I guess it keeps the bills payed.
Football Odds
If the contest were to get images of the tablet in public, it too would be legal. But when would that happen? Realistically, never.
Cars however to be well tested, have to be driven on real roads - and so are out in public often enough that people can get perfectly legal spy shots (though the cars usually have some kind of misleading or obscuring trim).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Personally, it's my opinion that Gawker sites aren't real news sites and they rely on controversial things, like this to get people looking at their sites. For instance, looking at Kotaku reveals that it's mainly just a bunch of low grade crap that you used to find on someone's Geocities site. The stuff of real substance can be found elsewhere on a site like Edge Online and you don't have to sift through the crap that's padding out the site to get you looking at more ads.
They really are just paparazzi "journalists" and we don't really need their type plaguing the technology sector. It would be nice if they went away.
I'd hate to work for a company that was always threatening me. I feel bad for the people who work there... what a miserable way to live.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
If the same thing happened to Microsoft, for example they could have said, "We offer you cash to provide proof that Microsoft has done [insert random suspicious act here], but please try to do it legally." Well, I wonder how fast Microsoft's lawyers would have been loosed on whoever made that offer.
This isn't about the Apple tablet - this story is about an PR gimmick for Valleywag. They don't expect to get any entries - they expect to get page hits.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Indeed - it's the new Duke Nukem Forever. I suppose the Daily Iphone Story is getting old hat, so now it's moving on to vaporware. I could understand it if the point was to ridicule (as with DNF), but I get the feeling that these stories are serious...
I suspect many posters here are completely ignorant of the non-vaporware actual tablet devices that currently exist, due to the lack of coverage on them, and therefore claim the Apple tablet (if it's ever released) to be the another Apple "first". And then use that as an argument for why it should receive so much coverage! It's a circular self-fulfilling prophecy.
If the Apple Tablet didn't exist, the lawyers wouldn't be sending the C&D. People wouldn't sign an NDA if there's nothing to disclose. Maybe the lawyers just want to claim the prize money. Either way, if no one is induced to say anything to Valleywag, no money is paid. Where's the crime?
It's a very dark ride.
Not as sick as we are of the Apple tablet and "Google Nexus Causes Cancer" stories.
You are welcome on my lawn.
really, who does ?
idiot grad for headlines about news of no import whatosever.
rather probably orchestrated by Apple marketing.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
In exchange for not getting sued they're basically being locked down to where they can no longer directly post any "leaked" information on any of their websites, and they're being told they have to notify apple of the source.
Yes, Apple's campus is not Jerhico, buglers would have little effect.
It's all fun and games until a 200' robot dinosaur shows up and trashes Neo-Tokyo... Again
But there is no hard evidence that the tablet exists. Therefore, how would anyone at Gawker know if they are asking people to break an NDA?
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
It seems to me that Apple's legal threat is tacit admission that the iTablet (or whatever such a product would be called) exists. I mean, how can you sue for inducing someone to violate the trade secret that a particular product does not exist? Is that even a trade secret?
One could argue that for something to be illegal you must break a law or even the "spirt" of a law. You can't be braking the law by asking for information or proof of something, even if it were classified unless you were asking someone to break the law to obtain the information. Even breaking an NDA is not braking the law, its violating the terms of a contract and that is the only rub, and even then it's only a civil penalty (which you don't have to pay, really there can be issues, but you won't go to jail for not paying, but that's for another time). You can sue someone for anything, just like you can send a C&D letter to anyone for anything.
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
This is a clause from Gawkers contest rules:
By submitting any photo or information to Gawker Media, you hereby represent and warrant that the submitted photo or information does not and shall not infringe on any copyright, any rights of privacy or publicity of any person, or any other right of any third party, and you have the right to grant any and all rights and licenses granted to Gawker Media herein, including but not limited to all necessary rights under copyright, free and clear of any claims or encumbrances;
That makes it pretty clear that they don't expect people to share information illegally.
I guess everyone involved gets some publicity though.
No, it doesn't. The disclaimer only covers copyright violations. There are plenty of laws you can break besides copyright law.
inducement to break an NDA violates a civil statute
"I'll give you $5000 to tell me stuff about the Apple Tablet" != "I'll give you $5000 to break your NDA and tell me stuff about the Apple Tablet.... anonymously, of course."
If you are working with a secret, new product for your company, you could disclose it to the world without permission, but it's fairly certain that your company would likely sue you and terminate you. It's basic common sense that you don't discuss secret products with outsiders. In many companies, they only let certain people know about said products much less work with them.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Hey, there's a prize if you RTFA this time! And here you are, talking about Apple's next shiny gadget. What a bunch of nerds.
Apple would have to show actual or potential economic value (loss) for any information released, which after disclosure on the 27th by Apple would no longer enjoin trade secret status. Apples losses would be for a period of less than 9 days now. There hasn't been time for competition to take advantage of any 'leaks' for perhaps 6 - 10 months? Certainly not since Apple cornered the market on 10.1 inch LCDs.
18 USC 1832 is a bit more explicit.
The AG would need to show Gawker benefited economically and that Apple was knowingly or intentionally injured by the premature release of the soon to be non trade secret information.
One might imagine that the lawyer authoring the C and D being apprised of economic loss as a result would have been compelled as an officer of the court to contact the justice department under 18 USC 1832? Instead we get a Cease and Desist letter citing the California Civil Code as harassment in an apparent attempt to maintain monopoly control over any premature leaks - imagine the defense seeking discovery on any managed leaks to the media by Apple.
I for one am sick of hearing about the apple tablet... either come out with it or dont but stop the crap
I think it's safe to assume that there are a lot of people who are not sick of hearing about the Apple tablet. I also do not think your command to for Slashdot to stop posting about it is going to be heeded.
Do you also post to auto sites asking them to stop posting about new car rumors? Or gaming sites to stop posting about SC2 or whatever? Would doing so even make any sense?
I'd hate to work for a company that was always threatening me. I feel bad for the people who work there... what a miserable way to live.
I'm unaware of any company which openly allows their employees to disclose trade secrets, with nary a threat of termination or disciplinary action.
Which is going to garner you the most hype from the Tech news media?
A) Hinting that you may have a tablet in the pipeline
or
B) Having one of your PR folks get a site to start a scavenger hunt for info and then have lawyer threaten said site over the hunt.
Apple wouldn't sue if there wasn't a product in the pipe. That's how you can tell when Apple is bringing out a new product - they start sending C&D letters.
It's a funny old way to do PR releases.
You presume the only way to get information about an Apple product is through illegal means.
Says AC.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
"It would not be possible for Noah to do in our day what he was permitted to do in his own...A bunch of lawyers would come and examine the Ark, make all sorts of objections and sue Noah out of existence." -- neoshroom
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.