Slashdot Mirror


The Apple Tablet Interface Must Be Like This

kylevh writes "On one side, there are the people who think that a traditional GUI—one built on windows, folders and the old desktop metaphor—is the only way to go for a tablet. In another camp, there are the ones who are dreaming about magic 3D interfaces and other experimental stuff, thinking that Apple would come up with a wondrous new interface that nobody can imagine now, one that will bring universal love, world peace and pancakes for everyone. Both camps are wrong: The iPhone started a UI revolution, and the tablet is just step two. Here's why." There are lots of cool UI ideas in there, even if it is entirely speculation. It's worth a read just to think about what the future could be like.

278 comments

  1. This is how it will all play out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    http://www.theonion.com/content/video/apple_introduces_revolutionary

    1. Re:This is how it will all play out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think I just peed a little, and I'm a Mac fan ;)

    2. Re:This is how it will all play out by jcr · · Score: 1

      What none of the pundits have guessed, is that the Apple tablet will be based on Hypercard.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  2. cloud UI by ionix5891 · · Score: 1

    for the vapourware age

    1. Re:cloud UI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pen1s envy much ?

    2. Re:cloud UI by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      yeah, the apple hype on this is disgusting. I'll wait until something is actually out and solid instead of a deliberate leak designed to get people interested. There's actually nothing substantive in the article or the summary.

    3. Re:cloud UI by Dupple · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yeah, the apple hype on this is disgusting.



      There hasn't been any thing said by apple. As soon as they made an announcement that something was going on at the end of January, everyone else start hyping something that no on knows anything about.
      --
      Watch those corners
    4. Re:cloud UI by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      well, what definition of hype is there other than hype? Do you realize what you're saying, and how controlled leaks play into this?

    5. Re:cloud UI by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Yes, Apple is not known to use controlled leaks to drum up insane levels of publicity for their products, ever. How could we ever have stupidly thought that Apple would want to inflate interest in their products?

      If you honestly do not think Apple is behind some of this hype, you are not only eating the spoon-fed pablum, you seem to be enjoying the taste as well.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    6. Re:cloud UI by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Except the hype isn't coming from Apple, it's coming from "pundits" and the "tech media."

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    7. Re:cloud UI by Dupple · · Score: 1

      Now you're believing the hype about the leaks. The simple fact remains that no one out side of apple know anything definite about any of this

      --
      Watch those corners
    8. Re:cloud UI by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      The only thing I believe about the hype is that Apple is contributing to it, at the very least, a small part. It is well known and documented that Apple "leaks" information about new products as a way of promoting and generating increased interest in their products. Can it be proven beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt that Apple 100% is leaking rumors to create hype? No. But my mind is not a court of law and pretty certain is all I need. Feel free if you wish to believe none of the "hype" around this new Apple product has nothing to do with Apple actively fueling the hype fire. Me, I'm not so convinced. Who does the hype benefit the most? Apple. Logic then dictates Apple should contribute to it.

      As far as the actual product goes - I'm sure Apple will put out a pretty tablet that is easy to use, and will probably cost a few hundred more than the competitors. Nothing Earth-shaking or too outside the normal formula. But that is just my speculation - others will widely vary I am certain.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    9. Re:cloud UI by Dupple · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt for a moment that apple approves leaks.

      The point is that apple isn't hyping anything.

      --
      Watch those corners
    10. Re:cloud UI by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. And there we have the answer - as in, there is no answer, and anyone who dares raise the question will get modded down instead.

      Well let me ask again: What UI revolution did the Iphone start?

      I don't know, did it let people copy and paste perhaps?

    11. Re:cloud UI by robi5 · · Score: 1

      YOU generate the hype - you clicked on the article, and even added a comment. (OK so did I.) Your last sentence is also applicable to your post. (OK so it is to mine.)

    12. Re:cloud UI by ubersoldat2k7 · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is something I blame sites like engadget and such do to generate traffic. If Jobs spits of a window they all go nuts with the ramifications it could have on their new gadgets and provide ten stories about it.

  3. but can it by KaimaraZatar · · Score: 1, Insightful

    run linux?

    1. Re:but can it by KlaymenDK · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure it will run BSD, so I'm guessing it can run Linux.

  4. Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by rolfwind · · Score: 0, Troll

    I think for a tablet with detachable keyboard there might be, like this one from Always Innovating:
    http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20090302/AI-front_610x405.png

    but I don't see one just for a tablet.... the form factor always seems like one of those "neat-o" ideas until you actually try to make use of it.

    1. Re:Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The average Slashdot reader probably owns about 50 paperback books. It sure is a neat for factor, isn't it?

      The thing is that nobody has ever made a half-decent paperback-sized tablet. Odds are that it will sell.

      I agree with TFA that the iPhone OS is the best choice of OS for Apple. Not because it is the best possible OS for a tablet, but because it is a great OS that people like. It has an interface that keeps people buying apps and songs and whatnot (books seem like a good thing for a table). It has an interface that keeps them from developing their own software and thus keeps them from hacking and "stealing" so-called "intellectual property"...

      Or so it would seem. Good luck with that in the long run. :-)

    2. Re:Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by Sancho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the digital handwriting problem could be solved, there would be demand for a tablet. Taking notes is something that computers still don't do particularly well. You can get by, sure, and there are some applications which aid in that, but it's not quite the same as being able to easily sketch or make simple diagrams by hand and integrate those with text.

      The other main use for a tablet form factor is for consumption of media. Touchscreens will probably not be as good as typing for quite a long time, if ever. But if you don't need to type much, then it can be fine. Watching movies and reading books would work with a tablet. The main problem, of course, is cost. When you can buy a laptop that also does those things, why in the world would you bother with paying more money to get a tablet? What do you gain, other than perhaps something which is lighter weight?

    3. Re:Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Ahhh, but where did you try to use it, and for what purpose? This device will not be a primary computer for someone (well, maybe a few of the less computer literate masses), but will serve as a consumer device/appliance for: media browsing and viewing, gaming, and spot utility computing much like the iPhone and iPod Touch now.

      People seem to be getting stuck on the idea that this thing will be a fully software customizable compute device like a netbook. It ain't gonna be. It's not even going to run a full version of OS X (latest rumors all pint to a new version of iPhone OS), at least not in the near future, let alone anything like a Linux distro.

      How's about we pass judgement on the utility of a device AFTER it comes out and we have at least 90-days to a year to play with it. Any value judgements before that are, well, as useful as a vaporware product.

    4. Re:Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If? There used to be this one company called Palm... Rumor has it the founder is a doctor in neurophysiology, and made the company famous solving just that problem you elude to.

      I can only assume that a bunch of other Apple zealots modded your post +Insightful...

    5. Re:Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      I generally agree that I can see them becoming more popular in future, but not at today's prices.

      However, netbooks still have a huge advantage over them for video - it's a lot easier (IMO) to simply put it on your lap (or desk) and watch the screen, as it's folded at whatever angle you wish. With a tablet, you've got to hold it all the time. We're used to that with books, but with videos it's nice to sit back and relax.

    6. Re:Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by Sancho · · Score: 1

      That's true. I wonder how many people regularly watch video on their phones? It's not perfectly analogous, but it's close.

    7. Re:Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      I guess there must be some market, because of video mp3 players. But at least those have the advantage of being small... for a tablet that's the size of a netbook, I think I'd prefer a netbook for video.

    8. Re:Is there a market or hidden demand for tablets? by ubersoldat2k7 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the iPhone's is a great OS, but I find it hard to use when all I get is the stupid "connect to iTunes" message. No iTunes? Sorry!

  5. The world is paved with astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I get that the idea of an Apple tablet is intriguing, but is it worth all the stories popping up in the tech world? I mean, there's speculation about it showing up on gaming blogs. Lots of these articles are genuine, but I'm starting to smell a little astroturf too.

    1. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's hip to be hip.

    2. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Theaetetus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I get that the idea of an Apple tablet is intriguing, but is it worth all the stories popping up in the tech world? I mean, there's speculation about it showing up on gaming blogs. Lots of these articles are genuine, but I'm starting to smell a little astroturf too.

      It's the biggest story in personal electronics for the next 6 days. After the iPod and the iPhone, Apple coming out with a new product is a major deal - particularly in how it influences the already existing markets of, respectively, music players, smartphones, and tablets.

    3. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by iamhassi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "is it worth all the stories popping up in the tech world? "

      Thank you!

      Actually I'll take it a step forward: shut-up already! Tell me when it comes out and give me a full review with a components breakdown. I'm so incredibly tired of every tech site I go to running a article every day with potential design mock-ups, hypothetical processor specs, and emerging screen technologies that might appear in the new not-formally-announced Apple tablet. I've been reading Apple Tablet stories on slashdot for five years, and frankly I'm tired of hearing about it.

      This thing has more hype than Duke Nukem Forever and half the credibility, at least Duek Nukem Forever had confirmed release dates.

      So what about it /., am I still going to be reading Apple Tablet might-have stories on /. in 2015, or can we finally stop beating this very dead horse and bury it until it's really released?

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    4. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by amicusNYCL · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It might be genuine people writing genuine articles, but it's still fed from the strategic "leaks" put out by Apple, with the purpose of generating hype. So the genuine people writing their genuine articles are actually Apple's PR strategy for getting people to talk about this without them having to make an official announcement. Of course, when they actually do make the announcement the hype will be so much that the free media coverage Apple will get out of it will be worth more than they would have ever wanted to spend on a pre-promo campaign for it.

      So yeah, the articles are genuine, and it's also astroturfing, even if the authors don't realize they're astroturfing. Apple speculation is ridiculous and useless. It doesn't matter what the speculation is, we'll all found out exactly what Apple plans to do, exactly when Apple wants us to find that out, and it will have all of the features that it would have had if no one had been speculating.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    5. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't call it astroturfing-- not exactly. These things are fed by Apple's leaks, and it's fairly intentional on Apple's part. It was reported that Apple knew one of their competitors was going to release a tablet (Microsoft?) and leaked information about their own tablet to steal the news cycle.

      However, Apple doesn't really need to feed these things. Apple fans do it to themselves to some extent. Even back in the 90s when Apple was falling apart, Mac fans were tracking the company's progress closely and freaking out about every possible move. Also, there are various business interests involved. News sites want views. There was a video a while back where Jim Cramer talked about starting fake Apple rumors to manipulate stock prices, and surely that sort of stuff plays into all this. They're maniacs.

      There's also (sorry, but it needs to be acknowledged) a valid component to Apple hype. Apple is an innovative company, they release cool products, and they drive technology trends. You might not think they're *that* innovative, but compared to companies like Dell and HP, they really are.

    6. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Itchyeyes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The iPod and iPhone were certainly transformative products, but that's not the case for every single new product Apple announces. How many people here have an Apple TV under their television set? It's certainly exciting to speculate, but like the GP said, it's getting out of hand. Every single blog on the Internet is speculating wildly, and the New York Times isn't even taking the time to qualify "news" about the device as rumors anymore. Chances are good that Apple will announce something pretty spectacular next week, but until then I think it would a lot of people some good to simply step back and take a deep breath every once in a while.

    7. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt it is astroturfing. I think the articles are genuine. It's just everyone wants to be on the Apple rumour bandwagon.

    8. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by thesandtiger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Tell me your address and I'll send the police over immediately - I know it's terrifying being forced to read these stories at gunpoint, but help is on the way!

      Screw talking about some hypothetical gadget - what we should really be discussing is the huge number of people who are being forced to read and comment on articles they don't want to read. Why isn't the government doing something about this?!!

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    9. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by samkass · · Score: 1

      I mean, there's speculation about it showing up on gaming blogs.

      Gosh, the successor to one of the most prolific gaming devices ever released is 7 days away from announcement and someone wants to talk about it on a gaming blog? The horror! Seriously, all the game titles released for all the other current platforms put together equal the amount of titles released for the iPhone OS. Sure, a lot of them are free indie toys of questionable quantity, but it's still a must-have device for any gaming enthusiast. And a tablet strikes me as something that could easily become a critical aspect of much tabletop gaming in the near future.

      Criticisms on excessive speculation on specs, form factors, operating systems, and manufacturers of the tablet seem warranted-- the gaming one is one of the few that actually DOES make sense to me, along with publishing and input devices.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    10. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by NotPeteMcCabe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've been reading Apple Tablet stories on slashdot for five years

      Why do you keep reading them? It's not like they're secretly given misleading summaries.

      I don't like hockey but I don't go around on NHLBLOG.COM telling everybody to shut up.

    11. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      +1 Insightful

    12. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but it isn't a story at all until a product is released.

    13. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by dangitman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It might be genuine people writing genuine articles, but it's still fed from the strategic "leaks" put out by Apple, with the purpose of generating hype.

      What evidence do you have for that claim?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    14. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      There's information in this article from an ex- Apple Senior Marketing Manager describing the "controlled leak" process:

      http://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/01/apples-strategy-to-generate-buzz-controlled-media-leaks.html

      "The way it works is that a senior exec will come in and say, "We need to release this specific information. John, do you have a trusted friend at a major outlet? If so, call him/her and have a conversation. Idly mention this information and suggest that if it were published, that would be nice. No e-mails!"

      The communication is always done in person or on the phone. Never via e-mail. That's so that if there's ever any dispute about what transpired, there's no paper trail to contradict either party's version of the story. Both sides can maintain plausible deniability and simply claim a misunderstanding. That protects Apple and the publication."

      John claims that the recent article on WSJ about pricing and launch dates of the upcoming Apple Tablet had "all the earmarks of a controlled leak".

      So, people pick up the controlled leaks which they read about in other publications, then post their own articles speculating about other details (thereby increasing the hype).

      Sooooo...

      It might be genuine people writing genuine articles, but it's still fed from the strategic "leaks" put out by Apple, with the purpose of generating hype.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    15. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by centuren · · Score: 1

      It might be genuine people writing genuine articles, but it's still fed from the strategic "leaks" put out by Apple, with the purpose of generating hype. So the genuine people writing their genuine articles are actually Apple's PR strategy for getting people to talk about this without them having to make an official announcement. Of course, when they actually do make the announcement the hype will be so much that the free media coverage Apple will get out of it will be worth more than they would have ever wanted to spend on a pre-promo campaign for it.

      So yeah, the articles are genuine, and it's also astroturfing, even if the authors don't realize they're astroturfing. Apple speculation is ridiculous and useless. It doesn't matter what the speculation is, we'll all found out exactly what Apple plans to do, exactly when Apple wants us to find that out, and it will have all of the features that it would have had if no one had been speculating.

      Regardless, I found this specific article quite interesting. Sure, it is speculation on the Apple Tablet interface through a look at things that have been done (mainly by Apple, but also Microsoft and Palm). If that was all I got from the article I'd agree with "ridiculous and useless" completely. However, since I'm not really interested in Apple rumours, and I am extremely interested in device specific application UIs, I found parts of the article fascinating. I admit, I mostly skipped over talk about things like how Expose might or might not be implemented, but I was not aware of Mr. Raskin's work and quite pleased to read that little bit of computing history.

      The unfortunately-named concept of the "information appliance" isn't something I've come across a lot of people writing about, which by itself is interesting if you consider how clearly successful that approach is over the alternative. There's a reason people still buy gaming consoles and commercial DVRs instead of just running a line from PC to TV and getting a couple game controllers and a media remote. Similarly, there's a reason why iPhone owners will use a Facebook or Google Maps App instead of just logging onto the respective website in Safari: it's a better device-specific interface.

      Speculating on just what Apple is going to do may be interesting to some, and boring or annoying to others. IMO, device-specific application design is worth talking about, especially as more and more development moves to the web-browser-as-an-all-encompassing-platform model. The speculative eve of a major Apple release like a Tablet is a good time to talk about it, on the theory that more people are thinking about how things could be, prior to going back to their everyday use of how things currently are.

    16. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      No it isn't.

      It's up to you to prove otherwise - and if you try, please do so without using circular logic (the problem is that it becomes circular: the coverage in the media is used as evidence for it being important, yet the coverage in the media is justified on the grounds that it's allegedly important).

      Plenty of tablet devices are already on the market, including from major tech companies. Even giving Apple one story, when it's actually released (if "it" even exists), would be more than what most tablet releases got. You see, the problem isn't that an Apple product is getting undue attention - it's that they haven't even released anything, and we're getting "news about there possibly being news in the future".

      It's not the biggest story, because right now there isn't a story. Come back in 6 days or whenever the vaporware prophecy predicts, and tell us the story then.

      (The Iphone the 2nd most important thing in tech? Jesus Christ, get a sense of perspective. Check out market share figures before you reply to me.)

    17. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Yes, I've seen that. But one guy saying it doesn't make it true. You need more evidence than that. This doesn't pass journalistic muster.

      Furthermore, that doesn't apply to every Apple rumor article. It's not like slashdot and other places are getting leaks directly from Apple. Those articles are published because Apple rumors are popular fodder.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    18. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Theaetetus · · Score: 1
      Know how I know you responded without really reading my post?

      (The Iphone the 2nd most important thing in tech? Jesus Christ, get a sense of perspective. Check out market share figures before you reply to me.)

      That's how. The iPhone and iPods were the most recent major products announced by Apple. That's what I said. Not that they're numbers 1, 2, and 3 in the most important things in tech. I mean, geez... Get a sense of comprehension.

    19. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Wayne247 · · Score: 1

      Well let's see. Last time we all went nuts over what Apple was possibly going to revolutionize a market with a new innovative gadget or not, was when they were 'about to possibly announce a PHONE'.

      What came next? Oh right, a truly innovative phone that revolutionized not only the entire mobile phone market, but the portable-pocket-computer market as well, and then went on to sell millions and millions of those rectangle boxes.

      So yes, the entire world comprised of people interested in technology is buzzing around like crazy because, as the speculations, chances are good that the same company will do it again with something else that will possibly revolutionize a whole market and change a part of our lives as technology yet again makes a leap forward.

      We're excited because it's exciting.

      If this bores you and you can't be bothered until the product is actually out the door, then don't read the stories and don't comment on them. Just scroll down buddy, more stories about Microsoft's hacking vector software is on the way.

      By the way, this is not just 'tech'. The same thing happens with cars as well. Some company may or may not come up with a new innovative product and we all get giddy about it and post countless blogs and forums threads about it. And we love it.

    20. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by Mista2 · · Score: 1

      I thought it might be something like this for the Apple press crowd. Coming up to schristmas - new stuff - umm, well we got the 27" iMac, I mean who would have guessed that Apple would just keep making their flagship all-in-one bigger? and, um, some new CPUs. Oh, and may be a new tablet! Yes lets write about that! Afterall we can print 10 stories that contadict one another and it doesnt matter! And it gets eyeballs on our ads!

      For me, I'm happy using the tablet I bought 4 years ago. What am I expecting from a new tablet? Everything my current HP TC4400 can do, but smaller, lighter, and better batterylife please. What is my use for a tablet - mobile coms and remote desktop console, note taking, and control console for switches when I actually have to go and visit them in a riser. It can run Windows 7, Linux, and at a pinch OS X - but wifi doesnt work on that, have to add a card. I can replace the HDD and memory to keep this aging clunker going along, and surprisingly, Windows 7 gave this a whole new lease of life. XP Tablet was crap, Vista was far too slow, now Linux and Win7 sit happily side by side - Linux boots slightly faster, but the crappy performance of the intel propriatary GMA950 video drivers in linux mean WIn7 feels a little better generally, but is missing many of the tools I use daily.

      So I hope if Apple make a tablet, it is more like the modbook rather than a super-sized iPhone, but I bet I'm going to be dissapointed on that one.

    21. Re:The world is paved with astroturf by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      But one guy saying it doesn't make it true. You need more evidence than that.

      Actually, no I don't. This isn't a court of a law, it's a discussion forum. If you expect a member of the public (such as myself), to find hard evidence for secret undocumented trade practices by a secretive corporation which I don't work for, then you're probably expecting a little too much. This is the word from someone who used to do the job, and frankly he doesn't have any reason to lie about it.

      Furthermore, that doesn't apply to every Apple rumor article.

      No it doesn't, there are some people who just feel like speculating about Apple products is a good use of their time. It does, however, apply to every new Apple product. There's no reason it wouldn't. It's an enormous amount of good press, and the bill for Apple is exactly $0.00 (unless you count the minutes of salary for the marketing manager talking to his journo friend).

      It's not like slashdot and other places are getting leaks directly from Apple.

      Did you read what I wrote? They don't leak to every single publication, they leak to one major publication (such as, say, the Wall Street Journal), which then gets picked up by many other smaller blogs and things, including sites just like this one.

      If you're looking for a signed document from Steve Jobs himself explicitly instructing people to do this, you're not going to find it. But think for yourself (I know that's difficult when dealing with Apple). This is a massive amount of good, free press. There's no reason why Apple would not do it. It makes tremendous business sense. This isn't some conspiracy theory, it's business.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  6. Files by maxume · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is okay for files to go away, right up until the point that I notice I can't access some data because it is stuck in some app.

    And I don't mean that files should never go away, I just mean that each time I notice it, I get confirmation that they aren't done making whatever it was that they changed work correctly yet.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    1. Re:Files by fermion · · Score: 1
      The files are not going away, just relying less on a file name and more on association. Raskin's idea are useful, and not unique. The one key idea is the filesystem as a database, which would have made MS Vista what it was supposed to be, and would have made MS Windows 7 the preeminent touch screen interface.

      There are really two issue with moving aways from folders and files. The biggest on is this is what many techies expect. The average user doesn't care, and in fact probably hates files. They just want to open a program and have the work the did there. Folders and files gets in the way of this. The second is that we do want to interchange data, and this has traditionally been done at the file level. Interfacing a database file system to something like NTFS or HFS or ext3 is probably a non trivial issue.

      We do have to rethink this and everyone who thinks in 'files' will notice, just like everyone who thinks 'functions' might have trouble thinking in 'objects'. I think that Mac OS X and MS Windows are not the appropriate tablet interface, not only because of file system, but because the interface. In particular, the MS Windows reliance on a multibutton mouse makes it a bad table interface for the tablet. I expect my tablet interface to be made for a tablet, not just hacked from whatever old technology lying around. This is what made MS Windows earlier than NT bad. It was just a GUI hacked onto MS DOS.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    2. Re:Files by maxume · · Score: 1

      Sure. My point is that the rethinking isn't done until I can use the system without getting frustrated by the fact that I can't put a blob of data somewhere with program A and then quickly pull that data into program B (and as 'bad' as it might be, that alternative should be there right up until the point it is *never* needed).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Files by PietjeJantje · · Score: 1

      Folders/files and databases are both just data repositories. You can read and write data to it using an identifier. The average user does not care about either files or databases, he just cares about naming and finding entities he's working with. Whether the underlying OS uses a filesystem or a database, he will select Save in his word processor and type "My monthly report 5", and later restore it by that label. One could even make identical interfaces.

  7. new? by girlintraining · · Score: 1

    ...here are the ones who are dreaming about magic 3D interfaces and other experimental stuff, thinking that Apple would come up with a wondrous new interface...

    Been there, done that

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:new? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      So, in your opinion, the boundaries of 3D User Interfaces have been fully explored, no innovation is possible, and designers should stick to 2D graphics, or better yet, green screens?

    2. Re:new? by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      So, in your opinion, the boundaries of 3D User Interfaces have been fully explored, no innovation is possible, and designers should stick to 2D graphics, or better yet, green screens?

      Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Comeon -- you're asking a loaded question. Revolutionary design is about creating something that didn't exist before. Apple doesn't do that -- Apple takes existing ideas, repackages them, and then calls them new. That isn't to say that's not a useful or marketable service, but calling what the vast majority of Apple does "revolutionary" is a stretch. It's like "paradigm shift" -- everybody loved that phrase five years ago because it sounded progressive, edgy, etc.

      My point stands: Just because Apple's doing it doesn't make it new.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    3. Re:new? by maxume · · Score: 1

      If that was your point, it isn't even coherent, the article is about Apple using a modal iPhone like interface on the tablet, not about Apple using a 3d interface.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:new? by Laxitive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not that 3d user interfaces have been fully explored, but that simulated 3d interfaces on 2d desktops have some fundamental limitations. We already have some amount of simulated pseudo-depth: windows can lie on top of other windows, etc.

      The problem is that by the time you get around to interacting with something, you're interacting with a 2d euclidean plane which presents a projection of some 3d model. It doesn't make the plane 3d. You can't reach around and touch the "middle" of an 3d object projected onto a 2d plane. That's a problem. These might be somewhat ameliorated by true 3d interfaces (where the display itself is 3d), but that tech has yet to mature.

      If you think about it, even the way we work on our typical desk is mostly 2d, from a topological perspective. I have a pile of papers and some random crap lying around my desk. When I go to grab a document to work on, I don't just reach into the middle of a stack and pull out the right one. I don't have that capability. I need to go and start flipping pages, basically morphing my 2d topology to reveal some object hidden in 3d, and only then interact with it.

      That's not to say that all 3d effects and stuff are useless. Simulated 3d is a great way of providing visual cues that we have been training ourselves on since we opened our eyes. That can be a very important aspect of intuitive interfaces.. but fundamentally it acts as a visual highlight. The goodness or badness of any particular 3d interface depends entirely on how effectively the _2d_ projection is.

      Thirdly, "true" 3d is actually too limiting. We are forced to live in a 3d world, but our computers give us access to many more dimensions, weirder dimensions, than that. We can provide 2d projections of abstract non-fixed-dimensional objects, like n-ary trees (e.g. filesystems). An example of a projection of that abstract object to a 2d interface would be spotlight. It provides a 2d textbox which behaves in strange and weird ways - a 2d textbox that projects 2d manipulations (type some characters), into an arbitrary traversal of the tree. Compare the utility of that to the utility of a "true" 3d rendered filesystem. What value would that add? Sure, it would look neat, but what extra thing would you gain from it?

      There's nothing magic about 3d. Computers operate above and beyond limitations of 3 dimensions, and are currently constrained to expose their behaviour through primarily 2d interfaces. Simulating 3d on top of 2d user interfaces, aside from the "visual cue" aspect, is kind of an arbitrary choice.. not necessarily the best one.

      -Laxitive

    5. Re:new? by Garble+Snarky · · Score: 1

      I think the '3D interfaces' comment was referring to the concept of hand/finger position detection. That is, 3D INPUT interfaces, not DISPLAY interfaces. You're probably right about the 3D GUI, but 3D input systems have not really been explored too much as far as I know.

    6. Re:new? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Come on -- you're asking a loaded question.

      "Been there done that" is a loaded response.

  8. yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i hereby nominate apple speculation as the most boring internet subculture

    1. Re:yawn by Ipeunipig · · Score: 1

      Hear, Hear!

    2. Re:yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I woke up I would agree with you.

    3. Re:yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      i hereby nominate apple speculation as the most boring internet subculture

      Wow! Duke Nukem Forever must really be dead .......

    4. Re:yawn by TommydCat · · Score: 1

      The author is all for pancakes, so this is relevant to my interests.

      --
      This comment does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the author.
    5. Re:yawn by sootman · · Score: 0, Troll

      > i hereby nominate apple speculation as the most boring internet subculture

      With "complaining in forums about what other people enjoy" a close second.

      Seriously--for the hojillionth time, if you don't care about it, don't read it! And FFS, if you don't like it, it boggles my mind why you would take time out of your day to let the world know. OF COURSE you're bored--you've evidently got too much free time and nothing worthwhile to fill it. Might I suggest sitting on a curb and tossing pebbles into a storm drain?

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    6. Re:yawn by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I'll gladly second that.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    7. Re:yawn by kjart · · Score: 1

      Really? I actually find it fairly hilarious, mainly because despite all the noise, nobody has really answered in any compelling way what I am supposed to want one of these for. If you think about your average Apple fanboy (I like their stuff, but don't count myself in that category), they likely already have:
      -iPhone
      -Mac laptop (macbook, macbook pro, etc)
      -Mac desktop (iMac, etc)

      Ok, so 2 and 3 might not be the rule, but still - what computing niche does this table fill that isn't already covered? The best I've heard so far is sitting on the couch/laying in bed. Seriously. People are justifying buying this hypothetical device because it might be more comfortable to use in bed or on the couch (not really sure how a laptop isn't better when sitting, though). I'm not sure how you can do anything but laugh at this (and maybe buy Apple stock).

    8. Re:yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who is trollier? the troll or the troll who trolls the troll?

      relax, man

    9. Re:yawn by noidentity · · Score: 1

      i hereby nominate apple speculation as the most boring internet subculture

      But you see, that's the genius! I predict that Apple is harnessing the Internet to design the tablet for them. By putting small hints out, they can direct the flow of ideas. Once everyone's satisfied with the speculated design, they start manufacturing it (with a few changes to surprise people).

    10. Re:yawn by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      It depends what you use the laptop for.

      My uses:
      On-the-go/GPS/Widgets: iPhone
      Real work/Heavy use/gaming: Desktop.
      Need-something-bigger-than-iPhone-but-portable: laptop.

      A tablet, depending on it's implementation, would replace my use of a laptop.

    11. Re:yawn by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      OOI, what would it do better than a laptop, given it wouldn't be any cheaper than one anyway? And if it's rumoured to only run Apple's phone OS, rather than a proper computer OS? (I hope you don't multitask on that laptop, or want a choice in what applications you have permission to run, or visit a website uses a Java applet.)

    12. Re:yawn by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      i hereby nominate apple speculation as the most boring internet subculture

      What are you talking about? The Apple rumor mill is a thrill-a-minute rollercoaster! You have plot twists, and arch-rivals, and espionage, and companies spilling the beans and facing Steve's vengeance...

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
    13. Re:yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or flash!

    14. Re:yawn by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      I find that my laptop has entirely replaced my desktop, given that I can hook up an external screen and keyboard/mouse and external storage/NAS.

      I also find that I use my iPhone for a lot that I previously would have had to run on my computer for, like e-mail, browsing, checking the weather forecast.

      I see the future of computers morphing into something with a size similar to a phone and that desktops and laptops entirely disappear. There are only two problems left to solve:
      - Large high resolution display capability on a phone sized device. A crude solution is an external monitor interface, but I can also see some kind of e-ink fold-able interface or beamer like technology. See for example this: http://www.phonesuit.com/products/MiLi_Pro_iPhone_iPod_Video_Projector-18-10.html
      - Keyboard input and other input. This I think is the hardest nut to crack.

      Already phones as powerful as a ten year old computer. Most people don't need more, only 3D games really require more. I find that the iPhone is not just a phone, it's a truly portable computer. It fits in your pocket. It's Star Trek's "Communicator". I think the future is a device that has about the size of a pack of cigarettes/phone, and is able to somehow solves the display and keyboard problem will be the only computer 90% of people own in 10-20 years.
      It will have some kind of docking station ability to extend it's storage, network and gaming capabilities and for backup. Heavy processing will happen on specific systems that you just interface with over a network.

      Imagine a world where people carry around devices the size of a pda/smartphone that will be able to display an interface onto most flat surfaces, using a combination of beamer and camera technology for both display and input. All computers have been placed with opaque or transparent screens on which these devices can run at full resolution, and places like Starbucks will also have places with such panes, or maybe just a bit of white wall.
      http://arbroath.blogspot.com/2006/04/projector-keyboard.html and http://www.supplierlist.com/photo_images/187860/holographic_transparent_screen.jpg is what I'm thinking.

      One problem I might overlook is the power consumption/heat output such a compact device would have. It could be what will be it's main limiting factor.

      I think the computers of today will morph into real Personal Digital Assistants.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    15. Re:yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fail. This subculture now has 1 nominations.

  9. Missed a story? by mathx314 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Oh, huh, I must have missed the announcement that the Apple tablet wasn't just a rumor but actually a real thing. Odd, normally I'm on top of things like that. Oh well.

  10. Well... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 0

    In another camp, there are the ones who are dreaming about magic 3D interfaces and other experimental stuff, thinking that Apple would come up with a wondrous new interface that nobody can imagine now, one that will bring universal love, world peace and pancakes for everyone

    We HAVE 3D interfaces projected onto the 2D space of a multi-touch screen, which makes for some pretty awesome experimental stuff. And who knows, maybe Apple will be the one to do it, maybe it'll be the Open Source Community.

    Just because it seems unfathomable to you doesn't mean it isn't possible. I mean the whole love, peace, and pancakes is probably impossible, but not the interface part.

  11. Pancakes? by nate_wilbanks · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I prefer waffles.

    1. Re:Pancakes? by Smelly+Jeffrey · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Marti Page: Mom, is Grandpa Walter going to give me noogies?
      Susan Page: Of course he's going to give you noogies. He loves giving you noogies. That's how he tells you he loves you.
      Little Neal Page: Why doesn't he give me noogies?
      Susan Page: Because you get Indian burns.
      Little Neal Page: But I prefer noogies.

  12. Are they ahead of the market? by trafic_man · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From the article “For its part, Asus has netbooks and smartbooks running on Android and Chrome OS in its R&D labs, according to Shih, but is waiting until conditions are right to release them.” “Prototypes of tablet or slate PCs - touchscreen machines with no keyboards suited to watching media, reading e-books and web browsing - are sitting in Asus labs but Shih said the company is holding back on releasing any devices.” There may also be a product cycle from a hacked prototype in the R&D lab to full consumer release. The article makes it seem like they have the things in boxes ready to ship, its just that the Chairman Jonney Shih is waiting for the right time to slam his hand on the easy button and get them to market. What bothers me about this is it seems these comments are aimed at confusing investors into believing Asus is leading the way with these technologies like they did with the Eee PC. That does not seem to be the case.

  13. my "stove top" app has been accepted by Apple by peter303 · · Score: 2, Funny

    It turns the center of iSlate into a heater good for making coffee or heating ramen noodles. The CPU is right under that spot. All I do it run a program that counts how much Steve Jobs is making and it heats up real quick.

    1. Re:my "stove top" app has been accepted by Apple by DCstewieG · · Score: 3, Informative
    2. Re:my "stove top" app has been accepted by Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is Bill Gates....come on admit it Bill

  14. more like a product in search of a market by alen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    netbooks have crappy margins. building a tablet where you are forced to buy "content" just to use it is a stealth way of increasing average revenue per unit

    1. Re:more like a product in search of a market by Grizzley9 · · Score: 1

      I have an iPod and iPhone. Show me anywhere that I am "forced to buy content" just to use it. In fact, many of the most useful apps are free ones.

    2. Re:more like a product in search of a market by mystikkman · · Score: 1

      Well, there's a nice $18 to $20 kickback that AT&T provides to Apple garnished from your monthly iPhone bill.

    3. Re:more like a product in search of a market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have more than 150 apps on my [not jailbroken] ipod touch. All for free from the app store. Lots of good apps and lots of not so good apps.

    4. Re:more like a product in search of a market by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      Oh shit, you mean Apple's just using this thing to make money? Alert the tech blogs!

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
  15. We'll see. by onion2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's true enough that a tablet PC that's essentially just a scaled up iPhone would be pretty cool. If it's based on something similar to iPhone OS it'd be easy for developers to port existing apps too, so the App Store would fill up with software for it relatively quickly too. A tablet scale version of Orbital would be brilliant.

    But...

    It'd cost a lot. It wouldn't be particularly usable for traditional apps like email. It'd be great for watching films and stuff, but not as good as a TV. I guess it'd appeal to a narrow band of Apple nerds; even fewer than bought into the Macbook Air. While I'm sure Apple are capable of releasing something like that, and making a profit out of it, I can't help but think they're cleverer than that. Whatever is coming is going to have to be bigger (in the sense of appealing to the populace rather than a tiny subset of it) than a mere tablet even if they make it super snazzy.

    1. Re:We'll see. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The people who might buy a scaled up iPhone tablet are people who have an iPhone. Oops. No market.

      Apple might be able to sell a $200-$300 e-book reader. They won't be able to sell a $1000 iPhone++. If they're actually aiming for the $500+ price point, which seems likely, they're going to have to come up with something that can substitute for a notebook in many circumstances.

    2. Re:We'll see. by BobMcD · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you're overlooking the overall design. TFA alludes to it well, but I'll be explicit about it:

      Apple is looking into killing the Mac as we know it.

      They have a world in their mind's eye where they control all content through a single iTunes store. Your phone, your appliance, your workstation - all the same, with all of their users shopping directly from Apple itself. All applications that the machine will run are vetted and controlled, and Apple gets a cut of everything. They also get gobs and gobs of data from the purchase habits and the apps themselves.

      If this tablet succeeds, they inch closer to their goal. Thus, they could well slash the cost, probably beyond any hopes of a profit, towards achieving their goal of getting a cut on all the software.

      And if you like a world where you can download and run free software, this concept probably should frighten you, at least a little. Because if Apple does it, and does it right, the world will follow behind them.

      At any rate, bookmark this post. You may want to come back later and compare it to what actually happened... ;)

    3. Re:We'll see. by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      Do you have anything to back up your claims that "Apple is looking into killing the Mac as we know it." in the sense that they're looking to kill it as a general purpose computer? Or are you simply doing the tired old "mac = lock-in = for idiots = gaytardz fagetry lulz!!11" thing?

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    4. Re:We'll see. by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Well, first off, I'm not overly inclined to respond to an accusation of participating in 'gaytardz fagetry'. Second, I did specifically refer you to the very Fine Article, which it seems you have not read. Finally, I also implicitly stated that I was making a prediction, and that it might be fun to compare it to reality later.

      I suppose I could have also stated that I am not Steve Jobs, I do not know anyone who works for Apple, and everything I am envisioning is pure speculation.

      With that all out of the way:

      During those years, Raskin wanted the information appliance concept to be the basis of the Mac but, as we know, the Macintosh evolved into a multiple purpose computer.

      The original design was that of an appliance that molded into what you needed it to be. It became, more or less, in line with what other people were doing at the time. But that wasn't what Apple wanted it to be.

      The iPhone is the information appliance that Raskin imagined at the end of his life: A morphing machine that could do any task using any specialized interface. Every time you launch an app, the machine transforms into a new device, showing a graphical representation of its interface. There are specialized buttons for taking pictures, and gestures to navigate through them. Want to change a song? Just click the "next" button. There are keys to press phone numbers, and software keyboards to type short messages, chat, email or tweet. The iPhone could take all these personalities, and be successful in all of them.

      Here we have a picture of the iPhone as a proof-of-concept for the original Mac design of the morph-able appliance.

      I bet that Jobs and others at Apple saw the effect this had on the consumer market, and instantly thought: "Hey, this thing changes everything. It is like the new Mac after the Apple II." A new computing paradigm for normal consumers, from Wilson's Mac-and-PC-phobic step-mom to my most computer-illiterate friends. One that could be adopted massively if priced right. A new kind of computer that, like the iPhone, could make all the things that consumers—not professionals, or office people—do with a regular computers a lot easier.

      You really should read TFA, but I'll continue...

      With these four key problems solved, whatever extra Apple adds—like extra gestures—is just icing on the iPhone user interface cake that so many consumers find so delicious. The important thing here is that the fabled Apple Tablet won't revolutionize the computing world on its own. It may become what the Mac was to the command-line computers, but the revolution already started with the iPhone.

      If Apple has interpreted its indisputable success as an indication about what consumers want for the next computing era, the new device will be more of the same, but better and more capable.

      And finally...

      The most logical step, however, is to follow the iPhone and the direction set by Raskin years ago. To me, the tablet will be the continuation of the end for the classic windowed environment and the desktop metaphor user interface. And good riddance, is all I can say.

      This is where the article leaves it.

      I'm picturing the next, logical, step: realizing the Mac in actuality as it was first imagined, with an iPhone/iTunes/'Jobs owns Disney' twist.

      Does that 'back up' my 'claims' to your satisfaction?

    5. Re:We'll see. by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      Well then, what about the Photoshop users? and the developers using XCode? Do you think Apple truly believes they'll stick with the platform if they're forced into some (in their and my eyes) horribly restricted modal operating system?

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    6. Re:We'll see. by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      I honestly think Apply wants to segue even them into that arena. Plus the worst of the restrictions could, and likely will, go away for the more powerful devices. They're already speculating on how to make the tablet multi-task, which the iPhone isn't very good at doing.

      On the Adobe side of things, Apple would be offering a once-in-a-lifetime anti-piracy angle as well. I'm not sure how tempted they will be, but it would likely weigh in somewhere.

      And if Adobe doesn't play ball, isn't there some expectation that someone else will?

    7. Re:We'll see. by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      I'm still hoping for them to reveal a "real" tablet PC, that is, not a glorified ebook-reader but something more like what's already on the tablet PC market but well-designed instead of the clunky designs that have been available so far (most seem to have been typical "pro" or "ultra portable/executive" laptops with a monitor that you can flip around plus an incredibly crappy digitizer at a price that no one but the boardroom boys can afford). And considering the improvements in touch support they've been adding to OS X I don't think all hope is lost just yet...

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    8. Re:We'll see. by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      You hit the nail on the head, there. To be a "must have" gadget, it must replace and expand on the functionality of an existing market. The iPod replaced the portable discman market, which in turn replaced the walkman and boombox markets. The iPhone replaced the already booming cellphone market, the laptop replaced the desktop for many people. People forget that the only way the laptop ever tookoff as a market is when it could effectively replace 95% of the functionality of the desktop.

      So, are Apple planning on having the tablet replace the iPhone? Not likely, because it won't have phone functionality, and the iPhone market is new and huge and would just cut into Apple's already tremendous success. So it will need to replace the laptop. It fundimentally can't do that with the unsophsiticated workflow of a smart phone OS.

      Expect a hybrid OS that merries the robustness of a desktop OS workflow with the immediate nature of a smartphone OS.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    9. Re:We'll see. by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      Explain to me, then, how, if they're going to get me to buy a tablet to replace my mac, they're going to allow me to operate my recording studio running Digital Performer married with NI Kontakt, with music written in Sibelius notation software, album art created in Photoshop, all organized by project?

      Yes, the iPhone OS is great for simple communcation, but when you get into the serious business of project workflow, and use many different applications communicating with each other in tandum to output one finished product, the "grab bag" organization of the iPhone does not begin to cut it. You don't even have to go to my extreme to reach the level of complexity that the iPhone can't handle it. We're all doing projects and hobbies on the laptop/desktop that require this type of cross application organization.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    10. Re:We'll see. by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Presumably because the tablet and what follow it will be superior to the iPhone in these ways.

      Explain to me, if you will, what impossibilities exist in making the transition?

      iPhone OS isn't designed for it = Modify the OS design

      Screen too small = Larger screen

      Apps not ready = Better apps

      None of this seems even modestly difficult to me.

    11. Re:We'll see. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I expect the tablet is going to be aimed squarely at the "high end netbook market." It will be a light, portable, fairly cheap (when compared to a macbook) device that can be used for everything you'd want to do on a netbook or ebook reader. Reading, e-mail, web browsing and light productivity, including Keynote/Powerpoint presentations.

      I also expect it won't have a cell connection, or will be available without one. It won't be a carrier-subsidized device. Smart phone owners aren't going to want to pay for another contract, the cell carriers don't really want heavy data use devices on their networks anyway, and Apple hasn't had a very good experience with cell carriers.

      There might be an iPhone-esque tablet, but there had better be an iPod Touch-esque one, or it's going to be in serious danger of flopping.

    12. Re:We'll see. by centuren · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The people who might buy a scaled up iPhone tablet are people who have an iPhone. Oops. No market.

      Disclaimer: I mean this purely as an economic interjection, not as a jab at any company or their user-base.

      "No market" isn't quite accurate here, as we're dealing not only with a new gadget, but an Apple gadget. Apple is lucky enough to have a notoriously loyal group of first adopters when it comes to their products. They do have some market space to work with, even if the tablet is only bought by iPhone owners.

    13. Re:We'll see. by centuren · · Score: 1

      So, are Apple planning on having the tablet replace the iPhone? Not likely, because it won't have phone functionality, and the iPhone market is new and huge and would just cut into Apple's already tremendous success.

      Don't forget about the iPod, the primary model of which is an iPhone without phone functionality. Those products could be considered in competition with each other, but I don't think it means that much to Apple if someone buys an iPod or an iPhone, so long as they purchase media and applications through iTunes.

      So it will need to replace the laptop. It fundimentally can't do that with the unsophsiticated workflow of a smart phone OS.

      The article seems to argue that it can't fundamentally replace the laptop, period, and mentions that approach has been tried and failed. I don't think it's a stretch to say there's room for a product between smartphone and laptop. At the very least, Apple could be eyeing the Kindle and thinking, E-Ink and battery life be damned, we can entice consumers over with extra features and slick hardware design.

    14. Re:We'll see. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Okay, they'd surely sell a few, no matter what they released. Apple isn't really in the habit of aiming low though. And they do occasionally fail. The Apple TV didn't take off and quickly became a "hobby" that they could try and learn from.

    15. Re:We'll see. by drtsystems · · Score: 1

      What if said tablet was subsidized by a cell phone company and required a $45/month data plan? That could probably get it down in the $500 netbook range...

    16. Re:We'll see. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Clarification: the Iphone entered the cellphone market, but it didn't "replace" it, not in the same sense at all as the other examples you give.

      It fundimentally can't do that with the unsophsiticated workflow of a smart phone OS.

      Indeed, and one that can't even multitask at that.

    17. Re:We'll see. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      I agree entirely. It would be funny to see them kill the Mac, and then see the Mac fans have to accept it, but it wouldn't surprise me, they happily ditch technology when it's of no use to them (classic MacOS, PowerPC), and even "Mac" itself is today just a trademark for Apple PCs running an OS that has nothing to do with the original MacOS.

      I also share your fears. Thankfully the Iphone doesn't have anywhere near the success that Slashdot fans claim, and I don't see how an expensive and oversized istale would change that. But I do fear a self-fulfilling prophecy: thanks to all the free advertising by the media (including Slashdot), imagine if in 10 years' time, Apple have a monopoly on all mobile computing. We'd live in the locked down world where Apple controlled all released software. Open source would be severely hampered (you'd have to pay to develop, and Apple might only allow one fork of any given program, citing reasons of duplication). Running alternative OSs would not be an option unless you hacked the devices. "Open" computers would become an increasingly rare commodity.

      And whilst geeks at least criticised Microsoft's control, which pales in comparison to what Apple want, the sad thing is that in places like Slashdot, Apple are loved.

      This was once a place that supported open systems. How ironic that it now supports and advertises Apple's vision.

    18. Re:We'll see. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Oh don't worry, you'll still be able to run Photoshop on an Apple PC, running "Mac OS" Windows 8.

      There are still a few hold outs for PowerPC and classic MacOS, but Apple has shown it will gladly ditch core technology if it can make money marketing something else. I doubt they'll really care about preserving XCode developers, if they decide to move on. After the Ipod, I guess they'd rather be making popular gadgets that do simple things, rather than complex things like operating systems for a niche market of Photoshop users.

    19. Re:We'll see. by initialE · · Score: 1

      Our savior from this scenario? The RIAA, MPAA and global affiliates. By holding Apple at arms length from total control over sales of videos and music, Apple was forced to cut their store into Apps and iTunes. In my country the iTunes deal is stalled, not available. Ah well, not that I would buy any of that crap.

      --
      Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
    20. Re:We'll see. by snowwrestler · · Score: 1

      I doubt very much Apple is interested in killing the Mac as we know it. Rather, I think that they think that for most of what people use their Mac for, the machines are overkill. Most people use their computers now to communicate and to consume media, and they value stability and security over flexibility and power. iPhone and a tablet fit this "appliance" model of computing.

      But for power users and creators, they will always need an open platform: the Mac. Anyone who works with audio, photos, or video much will need a real computer. An appliance won't cut it--not enough power, storage, or flexibility (which is much more important when creating than when consuming).

      I just don't see see what's in it for Apple to kill the Mac. I see the economic value of the closed ecosystem of the iPhone + Tablet + App Store as an appliance play, but killing the Mac line would only lose them money. I therefore predict it will never happen. I won't be surprised if the volume of the appliances continues to overtake Mac sales though.

      --
      Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    21. Re:We'll see. by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure that the new *nix geek and "switcher" Mac users won't jump ship if Apple ever tries to pull something like that, and it seems a lot of Mac users these days are either people who migrated from IRIX/Solaris/AIX/HP-UX (possibly via Linux) or people who switched from Windows because they desperately wanted to get away from it, sticking these users with Windows is likely to drive them to some other *nix OS...

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
  16. Files too much for n00bs... by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It never ceases to amaze me how some people think that things like files
    and folders are too confusing for the novice. They are a pretty intuitive
    metaphor and heirarchical organization is something that humans tend to do
    naturally. A lot of this seems to be mindless fear mongering and I really
    don't get what the "self interest" is here.

    A "normal" person can navigate Virgin Megastore but they can't do the same
    thing with the same content in files and folders?

    Nonsense.

    People are being actively discouraged from exploring the interface and gaining
    any understanding it. This is limiting even with this "revolutionary new UI"
    that the iphone is supposed to be.

    Even the "databases" that files get sucked into still end up being simple and
    relatively flat heirarchies.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    1. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      I have an iphone and have to scroll through pages of flat icons aranged in order of install to get to an app. Err, thats the revolution? Thats like pointing to someone on Windows who dumps all their files to their desktop with no folders and calling it efficient.

      Its only efficient when you have under 20 items. Anything more requires some kind of basic organizational system. The desktop/file cabinet metaphor works especially well.

      Then again, this is an opinion piece from gizmodo. Seems like these guys spend all their ad money on sugar and red bull while navel-gazing instead of beating feet and reviewing real devices like at engadget.

    2. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Um, you do know that you can rearrange the order of the icons right? And a screen doesn't have to be full before a new one is started. Each page of my iPod Touch is categorized - Games - Social Media Apps - Lifestyle/Finance - Utilities, etc. It's only unorganized if you choose to not organize it.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    3. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

      It's all about scale. The ipod interface is easier for doing simpler things, but when you try to scale it up to a power-user level, it fails miserably compared to OS X and Windows.

      As long as people want to do complex things with their computers, normal desktops and laptops aren't going away. However, there is a lot of computer that isn't that complex, and I can see a tablet fitting well into that sort of middle ground being ultra-portable smartphones and something to get real work done on. The vast majority of users never do anything but write emails, surf the web, and listen to music.

    4. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by Coriolis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm surprised you think this. I've watched friends and family (all smart people, before anyone starts implying anything) graduate from novices to regular users, and some to power users. I remember them being initially utterly perplexed by the file and folder metaphor. I couldn't tell you why, but I could suggest why: the metaphor is imperfect. Files and folders do not behave like paper, and the differences in behaviour can be very confusing. For example, if I file something in a physical folder and go to look for it later, there's usually no chance that I'll have look inside a nested folder that is, apart from the name, practically indistinguishable from the one that contains it. The problem seems (to me) to be that users have trouble establishing a sense of place, of where the documents are stored. Where's my letter? What's this "drive" you keep talking about? When I edit this picture, why doesn't it update in both the letters I was writing?

      Geeks don't have this problem, because we think like this. We prefer to break our information down its atoms.

      Don't get me wrong, the metaphor is better than what came before it, but I don't think it's the best we can do.

      --
      Rgasuya aata! : I have been coding Perl and cannot tell where my fingers are now!
    5. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I look at the common network drive for my company, which holds all the files, folders, procedures, manuals, forms, and references required for company operations, I *certainly* dispair of files/folder hierarchies. They suck for more than a few files and/or folders. This kind of organization scales horribly.

      Humans tend to do a lot of things naturally. Not all of them are good. They're just easy. Big difference.

    6. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by badasscat · · Score: 1

      It's only unorganized if you choose to not organize it.

      Which no doubt describes 95% of actual users.

      Most modern UI's at least imply some sort of organizational structure (ie. Windows has "documents", "videos", "photos" etc. folders where these types of files generally go by default in most apps, and the Mac has something similar). The iPhone makes you do all the organizational work yourself. This isn't a UI revolution, it's a step backwards.

    7. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by rxan · · Score: 1

      What I don't get about people hating the file/folder metaphore is: what do you expect to be better?

      A database? Well then you have to search for everything, which in turn means remembering the name or type of everything. People can't do that. It's handy when they can, as seen in Windows 7/Vista search, but there will always be times when we forget.

      I think it's just better to encourage people to learn the file/folder metaphore rather than trying to replace it for the sake of replacing it.

    8. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      It never ceases to amaze me how some people think that things like files and folders are too confusing for the novice

      I've actually thought sometimes that the "folder" metaphor was a little confusing, but probably not for the reason you're talking about. I remember trying to teach people about computers back in the command-line days and then teaching people when the directories became "folders", and at first people seemed to have a harder time understanding "folders".

      It seems that the idea of "files" or "documents" as discrete packets of information is easy enough, and then those files can be sorted into logical containers called "directories". A directory can hold files and can also hold other directories. It's pretty straight forward.

      But then I remember the first few times I tried to teach someone who was computer illiterate about folders, and they seemed to get confused in ways that were hard to wrap my head around. People asked things like, why are these folders? and why would I want to put folders in other folders? Do folders get full? Where's the file cabinet? How do I put folders into a "hard drive"?

      I mean, if you think about it, the desktop metaphor is a little bit screwed up. I go to my computer's "desktop" and on that desktop I have "my computer", which in turn has the "desktop" in it. And then my real computer is on my real desktop, which is kind of weird. Like why should their be a graphic representation of the computer inside the computer's GUI? Do you have a computer in your computer? It's totally weird, but we've gotten somewhat used to it.

      The whole thing reminds me of a study a few years back where they found computer novices often had an easier time learning about computers if they learned on a CLI instead of a GUI. Apparently the interaction of issuing a command and then receiving a response was easier to deal with than being given a symbolic representational little world to navigate around in.

    9. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      For example, if I file something in a physical folder and go to look for it later, there's usually no chance that I'll have look inside a nested folder that is, apart from the name, practically indistinguishable from the one that contains it. The problem seems (to me) to be that users have trouble establishing a sense of place, of where the documents are stored. Where's my letter?

      Mac Classic went a long way towards solving that, they called it a spatial file browser. The principles were:

      1) There is only one copy of every object. For example, the open window displaying the contents of a folder *is* the folder. It's not a "view" of the folder, or an "instance" of the folder, it *is* the folder. If you double-click the folder icon again, you'll never get a second window showing the same contents.

      2) Things stay where you put them, to the pixel. If I drop an icon 240 pixels from the top and 300 pixels from the left edge of a folder, it damned well stays there until *I* move it. In contrast, modern OSes move files all over the place all the freakin' time. (Which drives Mac Classic fans like me crazy.)

    10. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I second this notion. Most people understand physical file cabinets. Computer file systems are modeled after real world entities that most everyone understands.

    11. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Files and folders are not too confusing. Files and folders are too inconvenient for average users. What you are doing is wrapping other models into a file/folder concept when it may not make sense. And here's the basic jist: Users don't care to know what is happening in the background when they do something; only whether they get results. They don't care when they look for an album on a website that some HTTP request was initiated that queried a database which is really file that returned results. They only care if they found the album.

      It's the same thing with organizing music. Some people really, really care that their music is exquisitely organized into the right file names and the right folders. Most people don't care. When they are in their media player, can they find the song and play it? Can they group their favorites together. Where that particular file is on the HD is meaningless to them.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    12. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The term "file" is and always has been retarded because even in the US, "your file" (e.g. FBI file) is actually a folder. It should have been folders and documents from the very beginning. You can nest folders, so the metaphor holds.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but calling it a "document" is still a little weird. Like if I'm in Windows and I see a DLL file, is that a document? I guess so, but it's also a "library". Totally weird if you stop to think about it.

      But mostly I wasn't even talking about what makes sense to me or what I think should make sense, but the sorts of questions I ran into back in the mid-90s or so, when computers were becoming more common and GUIs were becoming a more common UI. It seems like everyone is used to it now, but at the time people didn't understand "folders" and couldn't figure out how to use a mouse.

    14. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by Tom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It never ceases to amaze me how some people think that things like files and folders are too confusing for the novice.

      You've not looked on any novice desktop lately, have you? Most non-techies appear to stuff everything important unto the desktop itself. Doesn't look very much as if they "get" folders.

      A "normal" person can navigate Virgin Megastore but they can't do the same thing with the same content in files and folders?

      A normal person is very well equipped with spatial perception and orientation since it comes with the wetware. File and folder thinking doesn't. It may appear natural to you, but it is an acquired skill.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    15. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      A database? Well then you have to search for everything, which in turn means remembering the name or type of everything.

      You're half-right. You have to search for everything. But you don't have to remember the name of everything.

      The advantage a database has over a filesystem is that you can sort though the data in virtually unlimited ways. Whereas a filesystem has only 1 way to find something

      Think of it this way: In iTunes or similar music library apps, you can show a single title, or all the songs on an album, or all the albums by an artist, or all the songs that are similar to another song, or all the artists who released a song between 1996 and 1998........

      On a filesystem, your data must be filed in one particular place. We can apply one set of labels to that data (file path), but it's only sorted in that one way. Changing to a new way of organizing it requires rebuilding _everything_.

      We have repeatedly created programs to give us database-like access to filesystems. That's an enormous hint that the database-style access works better.

    16. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      The "Desktop" and "File" and "Folder" metaphores are arbitrary, yes, but the basic concept of "hierarchies" is incredibly important, and undeniably required for larger-scale work. Unless we suggest that larger-scale project management is simply not going to occur (which is idiotic), than hierarchies are inevitable. Weather or not we call a sub section of a hierarchy a "file" or a "widget" or a "twig" is quite irrelivant.

      The problem is that it's "hierarchies" that people have problem with it, but on the flip side it's "hierarchies" that are exactly what's required. People may not enjoy taking responsibility for their own organization, but to do sophisticated work on a computer, it is absolutely essential.

      Fuck the "desktop", I really could care less one way or the other. Long ago I stopped thinking about it having anything to do with the hard wood covering of a piece office furniture. The basic premise, is that people are sick of hierarchies. But hey, we're also sick of cleaning and organizing our bedrooms too... that's not going to change anytime soon. I suggest we just get used to it, or allow our lives to become completely disorganized altogether.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    17. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      Correction: the iPhone doesn't allow any oranization AT ALL. The iPhone basically assumes that you're not going to require any kind of sophisticated workflow for the kinds of things you do on a smartphone, which is essentially correct. In this sense, the iPhone is completely comfortable and successful with it's own lack of organization, which is why it works so well. Not true for the types of activities that many people use an actual home computer or laptop for.

      The iPhone isn't neccessarilly a step back, but it is meant to serve a different purpose. It's used to do much more rudimentary functionality, so it doesn't include the usual complexities that are required of a laptop/desktop. But unless the tablet is meant to replace the iPhone (unlikely), it must not use the same level of simplicity.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    18. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      People also don't like to organize their bedrooms either, but they still have to do it.

      The music organization analogy does not hold true when having to deal with larger-scale project workflow. All music files are essentially the same, they have an artist, a title, an album, and can be organized alphabetically. Now, superimpose that workflow to the project management I do at work, which is fairly typical for most professionals (ie: hundreds of millions of people worldwide) which have text documents, spreadsheets, and media files all organized together by project category or client.

      Are you telling me that iTunes organization will work when managing my client porfolios at work, or the music production projects I do at home? Or my girlfriend's liguistics papers? You act as if those who are using the computer for complex workflow patterns are few and far between. We're not, and we possibly make up the majority of computer users today.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    19. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Yes, but this points to being able to navigate filesystems on alternate keys.

      The idea of using a bunch of separate apps for every type of file you might have is a bit ludicrous.

      Browsing by alternate metadata should be an OS level thing that's not specific to a particular application.

      Also, if I need to alter that metadata then the iTunes model basically throws me back into what is essentially a 'green screen' with lipstick.

      The useful thing about filename as a key is the fact that I can manipulate it visually in a GUI or use regular expressions in a Unix shell.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    20. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      The problem is that different organizational structures work better or worse for different functions. Databases work fine for music file management, they may also work fine for certain kinds of text document management, but they don't do so well for more complex subdivisional management like project workflows (which I do everyday at work and at home). File/Folder hierarchies have database subsections built into them. Theoretically, if you wanted to, you could keep ALL of your files on your computer in the same folder, and it would be fundimentally identical to a database. You could organize it by title, by date, by application, etc. The point is is that hierarchies include the ability of database management within them, but they also allow other types of management. Databases lock you into one way of managing data, which may or may not fit your needs at that time.

      One interesting asside, note that on the iPod/iPhone, that music database essentially becomes a folder/file hierarchy. You chose Music, then you subdivide by Artist, then by Album, and then Song. You can't escape hierarchies, they are innevitable data structures, even within the most sophisticated database management.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    21. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by bidule · · Score: 1

      It never ceases to amaze me how some people think that things like files and folders are too confusing for the novice.

      It never ceases to amaze me how my father is still to this day unable to organize his files. He was an engineer and owned computers for more than 20 years and it's still a whole mess.

      I'm all with you on this, but I have to believe my eyes.

      --
      ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
    22. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      t they don't do so well for more complex subdivisional management like project workflows

      Database-based storage doesn't preclude a hierarchical paradigm. That's just up to the UI that's displaying the data. What it does is allow the same data to be shown using a different paradigm.

      To use your example, what if you wanted to know all the tasks that are assigned to John? If you stored everything in a project-based hierarchy, you have to walk that entire hierarchy. If you store it in a priority-by-user hierarchy, than a "show me everything on the Jones project" would be awkward. There will always be hierarchies in your example, but the problem is there is more than one, and switching between them is difficult in a filesystem paradigm.

      One interesting asside, note that on the iPod/iPhone, that music database essentially becomes a folder/file hierarchy. You chose Music, then you subdivide by Artist, then by Album, and then Song. You can't escape hierarchies, they are innevitable data structures

      They are mapped to a hierarchy only because that's what the OS does. But this is just another example of us grafting a database-like storage onto a filesystem.

    23. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The idea of using a bunch of separate apps for every type of file you might have is a bit ludicrous.

      Is it? This is what we already do. Just how many different spreadsheet programs do you use, assuming there are no file incompatibilities?

      Browsing by alternate metadata should be an OS level thing that's not specific to a particular application.

      Unfortunately, metadata is not task-neutral. The relevant data is highly related to the task at hand. A song requires totally different metadata than a recipe, than a spreadsheet, than a letter. And in each case, the context of the metadata, and relation to other metadata, can be very important information. It makes much more sense to have the application that actually knows how to interpret the data deal with the metadata instead of the OS.

      Also, if I need to alter that metadata then the iTunes model basically throws me back into what is essentially a 'green screen' with lipstick

      I'm not sure what you're saying here. iTunes includes a UI to edit the metadata we're talking about. "Get Info" on the relevant song and you can change the data. Similarly the metadata surrounding an email would change as you entered it.

      The useful thing about filename as a key is the fact that I can manipulate it visually in a GUI or use regular expressions in a Unix shell.

      I'm not saying users would be typing SELECT statements, the UI would wrap up the low-level database access. And any competent UI would include wildcards/regex.

    24. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. This is what most rabid computer users fail to understand. People don't get the desktop metaphor so easily. Add to that the fact that we have changed from the floppy disk to hundreds of gigabytes.

      The desktop metaphor is now useless.

    25. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      >> The idea of using a bunch of separate apps for every type of file you might have is a bit ludicrous.
      >
      > Is it? This is what we already do. Just how many different spreadsheet programs do you use, assuming there are no file incompatibilities?

      Except we aren't talking about "data" here, we're talking about the metadata. THAT information
      should not require any proprietary tools to manipulate. And yes I do use multiple spreadsheets
      and I do expect simpler spreadsheets to be usable with multiple spreadsheet applications.

      But that's besides the point.

      The equivalent of ID3 tags for a spreadsheet should not require Excel to query or alter.

      >> Browsing by alternate metadata should be an OS level thing that's not specific to a particular application.
      >
      >Unfortunately, metadata is not task-neutral. The relevant data is highly related to the task at hand.
      > A song requires totally different metadata than a recipe, than a spreadsheet, than a letter. And in

            No not necessarily. You just have no imagination. The fact that you see data artificially
      partitioned probably does not help.

      > each case, the context of the metadata, and relation to other metadata, can be very important
      > information. It makes much more sense to have the application that actually knows how to interpret
      > the data deal with the metadata instead of the OS.

            Nonsense. You don't need an app to understand a file's metadata. The wealth of external tools
      for dealing with metadata in files that iTunes manages is a great demonstration of this. The whole
      point of metadata is it's relative simplicity.

      >> Also, if I need to alter that metadata then the iTunes model basically throws me back into what is essentially a 'green screen' with lipstick
      >
      > I'm not sure what you're saying here. iTunes includes a UI to edit the metadata we're talking about.
      > "Get Info" on the relevant song and you can change the data. Similarly the metadata surrounding an
      > email would change as you entered it.

      It's time to stop swimming in the kool-aid.

      >> The useful thing about filename as a key is the fact that I can manipulate it visually in a GUI or use regular expressions in a Unix shell.
      >
      > I'm not saying users would be typing SELECT statements, the UI would wrap up the low-level database access. And any competent UI would include wildcards/regex.

      Then there aren't too many competent UI's around.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    26. Re:Files too much for n00bs... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Except we aren't talking about "data" here, we're talking about the metadata. THAT information should not require any proprietary tools to manipulate.

      Database-style storage does not have to be proprietary. However, it _should_ require something that can actually understand the relevance of the metadata.

      The equivalent of ID3 tags for a spreadsheet should not require Excel to query or alter.

      My argument is that ID3 tags require an application to understand the context in order to make them useful. Thus, music players can read and use them. However, Microsoft Word can't and there's no reason for it to do so.

      No not necessarily. You just have no imagination. The fact that you see data artificially partitioned probably does not help

      Again, you're assuming limitations that I am not. ID3 tags do very little good without the context that understand what a 'song', 'artist', 'genre' etc are. Without that context, the ID3 tags are just strings and nearly useless.

      Nonsense. You don't need an app to understand a file's metadata. The wealth of external tools
      for dealing with metadata in files that iTunes manages is a great demonstration of this. The whole point of metadata is it's relative simplicity.

      Think of it this way: If I just search a whole bunch of data for the string "Janis Joplin", I'm gonna get a bunch of songs she sung, as well as some she wrote, as well as some news articles and a bunch of other crap. That's 'cause there isn't anything that understand the metadata.

      Instead, if I search using something that understands the concepts in it's metadata, and can thus make sense of the ID3 tags, I can search just for songs she wrote.

      There is nothing requiring a proprietary product to understand the metadata. But whatever application you are using has to understand the context to be useful.

      It's time to stop swimming in the kool-aid.

      Again, you are arguing that users would have to resort to kludgey hexeditor-like tools. My question was "Why?". Try answering that.

  17. Obligatory... by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

    It would have the right number of buttons

    That would be one, then? [ducks for cover]

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  18. If it's just gonna be an oversized iPhone by cjeze · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'll be disappointed. But if it is going to be a color eInk reader with similar friendliness as the iPhone, then there might be hope.

    1. Re:If it's just gonna be an oversized iPhone by joh · · Score: 1

      But if it is going to be a color eInk reader with similar friendliness as the iPhone, then there might be hope.

      This is impossible right now. E-ink is far to slow to even allow pixel-wise scrolling, let alone direct visual feedback on a touchscreen. You just can't implement a decent user interface with an e-ink screen, color or not. This may change sooner or later, of course.

      But give me an oversized iPhone or iPod touch with 6-8 hours on a charge and Stanza (and other apps of course) and I'm happy.

  19. briefcase-size versus booksize versus cellphone by peter303 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The "briefcase" size is the maximum transportable computer size with the most comfortable size screen, keyboard; largest battery, memories, peripherals.
    The booksize computer is the smallest screen that gives you decent megapixel. So much software and webpages runs out-of-the-box for the megapixel screen and not on the one-eighth siblings- the smartphones. The book size easily fits into a daypack or handbag.

    1. Re:briefcase-size versus booksize versus cellphone by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The booksize computer is the smallest screen that gives you decent megapixel.

      "Decent megapixel," WTF? Do you not know the word "resolution"?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    2. Re:briefcase-size versus booksize versus cellphone by dangitman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Firstly, "megapixel" is a stupid marketing term for resolution. But the way he used the word wasn't even grammatically correct. I don't think it's even technically correct - what does "decent megapixel" mean, that one megapixel is better than another megapixel? "More megapixels" would be a better usage, but still redundant as we already have the word "resolution."

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    3. Re:briefcase-size versus booksize versus cellphone by smallfries · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I see that you've gone for the old tactic of citing a page that doesn't back your argument in the slightest. A megapixel is a unit of resolution, it does not mean resolution in the same way that mile does not mean distance. So what he wrote was about as technically valid as "Larger screens give you decent inch", i.e not at all.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  20. ...and another thing. by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Raskin describes this idea of the interface for every task being different. The device mutates and models itself on whatever is being done. The UI CHANGES to suit the task.

    This sounds remarkably like the EXACT OPPOSITE of the sort of "consistency" that's supposed to be the bedrock of "good interfaces".

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    1. Re:...and another thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good job missing the point. Consistent interfaces follow same conventions, widgets, components, but these are used to still build unique best fit interfaces.

    2. Re:...and another thing. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Raskin describes this idea of the interface for every task being different, etc. The device mutates and models itself on whatever is being done. The UI CHANGES to suit the task.

      This sounds remarkably like the EXACT OPPOSITE of the sort of "consistency" that's supposed to be the bedrock of "good interfaces".

      Not really. With a device like an iPhone, the user expects to see a defined set of parts of the interface - buttons, dials, movements. That's the consistent part. A button is a certain size, gestures are consistent, the various bits of the output (text, graphics, colors) look similar.

      It is the arrangement of the various pieces parts and specific information encoded on them / within them that gives you the application. If an iPhone app just sat there and did nothing, expecting the user to whistle a specific series of tones before vibrating then displaying some information in Klingon - that would be confusing and would vary from the UI guidelines.

      And probably sell thousands.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:...and another thing. by WilliamBaughman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Consistency doesn't necessarily mean "stays the same," it can mean "does the same thing, the same way." Take OXO Good Grips, for example. A different tool for every task, but the handles are always black and little squishy so even people who have never cored a pineapple know how to hold the tool.

      If a UI changes to suit a task, that's ok. The UI in the iPhone is constantly changing, but a button shaped like an arrow pointing to the right always opens a sub-menu. Selecting a text box always brings up a keyboard. And it gets more specialized than that, but not more confusing. If you're typing in a field that expects an email address, you get a ".com" button. I haven't seen anyone look at the ".com" button and freak out.

    4. Re:...and another thing. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      No. I get the point perfectly.

      You build the interface to suit the task, not to satisfy some ivory tower beaurocrats.

      This is the exact opposite of what Apple fanboys push.

      It's more like the various interfaces that get created for games.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    5. Re:...and another thing. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      The ".com" button is a big fat joke. It's a waste of valuable real estate that isn't even applicable most of the time.

      If anything, it's a nice reminder of how awkward it is to type on that virtual keyboard.

      It's a perfect example of the Apple mentality really...

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re:...and another thing. by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      Raskin describes this idea of the interface for every task being different. The device mutates and models itself on whatever is being done. The UI CHANGES to suit the task.

      For a device as small as the iPhone with a limited OS, a modal interface that changes with the mode is really the only way to go.

      The reason the "desktop" metaphor works for computers is because they have larger screens and multitask.

      So, regardless of how amazing an Apple tablet might be, if it can't compete significantly with portable computers of the same size, then it will be a niche product. It still might sell millions, but with netbook/laptop sales in the billions, it will still be a drop in the bucket.

      Basically, if Apple compromises frame rate by using e-Ink to extend battery life, then it won't have any of the video features of an iPhone. If they use a display that updates quickly, then the battery life will make this a poor eBook reader (especially at 2x-3x the price of existing ones). Last, if they lock in to an "app store" concept, then there will probably be a lot less useful software (like nothing to compete with any Apple products).

      So, it's likely this will be a big announcement and the product might be good, and will almost certainly make Apple a great deal of money, but it's going to compete with too many markets to be more than a minor player in the grand scheme of things.

    7. Re:...and another thing. by WilliamBaughman · · Score: 1

      The ".com" button is a big fat joke. It's a waste of valuable real estate that isn't even applicable most of the time.

      If anything, it's a nice reminder of how awkward it is to type on that virtual keyboard.

      Really? I guess you're entitled to your opinion. I'll admit that I was surprised the first time I saw it, but it's never gotten in my way. It takes the spot of the space and return buttons.

      I just don't see how that button is irrelevant when you're typing in an email address or a HTTP address, it's a whole four characters. If you hold it down it lets you choose .net .edu or .org and that's 99% of the TLDs I visit. If anything, I think it's a good example of what a virtual keyboard can do.

    8. Re:...and another thing. by wtmoose · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're thinking of a different .com button? The one I use only shows up (along with "." and "/") in URL fields in place of the space bar. So three highly applicable keys replace one completely inapplicable key. I use them almost every time. No joke.

    9. Re:...and another thing. by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      How is that different from what we're doing now on desktop computers?

      iTunes has a different arrangement of widgets (for searching music) than Excel has than Word has than Outlook has. Ok...

      So you're described what the iPhone is doing, but what I don't get is how this is new or revolutionary in any way. What's the difference between this and just running all your Windows apps maximized?

    10. Re:...and another thing. by Tom · · Score: 1

      Not really. Good interface design runs deeper than a few aphorisms.

      You want consistency within the same context, or in other words: All your light switches should work the same way, as should all your doors. But there's no reason that light switches and doors have to work the same way, and quite a few good reasons why they should work differently.

      On a good mutating interface, the general tasks should behave consistently, and Apple is ensuring that with the SDK and UI guidelines as far as possible. e.g. scrolling, clicking, etc. works the same everywhere. But the specific tasks should have their specific input system and interface philosophy.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    11. Re:...and another thing. by Quantumstate · · Score: 1

      This is the same as my PC. My web browser looks different to my word processor. Wow, my PC has a revolutionary interface, all buttons look like buttons for consistency but they vary in positioning and what they do for each application. A little arrow pointing left always means go back in whatever program I am using whether it is my web browser, file browser or pdf reader. When I select a text box this little flashing cursor always appears and then if I try typing on my keyboard text appears in the box, it is wonderful how this happens everywhere.

    12. Re:...and another thing. by puregen1us · · Score: 1

      that's why it only appears when typing in boxes for which it is applicable - URLs and email addresses.

      The rest of the time it isn't there.

    13. Re:...and another thing. by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      I think that's a very realistic assessment. The fundimental difference between the two models is that Raskin's idea completely throws out the underlying workflow management system, which is fine for simpler applications, but complete falls apart on more complex project workflows like the everyday things we do at work and home.

      The iPhone is slightly revolutionary in that it recognizes that that complexity is fairly unneccarry for the incidental type of computer use done on the go. But that won't hold up in the work or hobby environments that make up about 90% of all day-to-day computer usage. The only thing that survives is entertainment and gaming, of which TVs, consoles, and keyboards are better at anyway.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    14. Re:...and another thing. by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      I was also thinking this as I read the article. One of the advantages of the Macintosh over Windows has been a higher level of consistency in the interface (particularly for things like command key shortcuts and UI elements).
      I remember when Hypercard was introduced, and it was speculated that the more free-format, anything-a-button interface would water-down the Mac's usability.
      Well, we all survived that episode, and now we have the iPhone (and speculated tablet) doing the same thing.
      I suppose it hinges upon whether the UI gadgets remain obvious and consistent when put into actual apps by developers.

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    15. Re:...and another thing. by JabrTheHut · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen anyone look at the ".com" button and freak out.

      I have. An ex-windows programmer friend of mine. Freaked right out, started screaming and everything.

      He does Java now.

      --
      Work like no one is watching. Dance like you've never been hurt. Make love like you don't need the money.
  21. eBook++ by pavon · · Score: 1

    The way I see it tablet:eBook as smartphone:cell phone.

    I have been looking more and more into getting an eBook reader for various reasons. The low power consumption and reflective display puts them into a completely different class of devices than laptops or notebooks in my opinion. But then the feature-creep ideas start coming. It would be really nice to be able to take notes on it as well, and keep a calendar, and browse the web, and view maps, etc. An eBook reader that had good touch screen support, and an open development environment would push me from "thinking about it" to "gotta have it". That is why the Nook and and other recent tablet designs that are more inspired by eBook/netbooks have really been catching my eye.

    1. Re:eBook++ by trevorgensch · · Score: 1

      Personally i am very happy with the EBook reader i got for the ITouch - Bookshelf - plays every single format I can throw at it. If this program works on the new Tablet that will be a major reason to swtich - bigger screen and all that.

  22. Data Entry by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

    On a tablet? Not gonna happen. Everyone needs to do data entry.

    Although I suppose if you embed RFID in everything you could do away with data entry.

    1. Re:Data Entry by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      This new learning amazes me! Explain again how RFID can be employed in preventing data entry.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:Data Entry by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing you have a bag with 104 physical widgets, each with it's own unique RFID.
      The reader's smart enough to recognize some of the widgets as being modifiers that can be combined with others - shift, control, alt, function.


      Actually, that seems sort of klunky.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    3. Re:Data Entry by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Here's a thought:
      You don't use one device for all tasks.

      Heavy data entry: Desktop
      Pull up the recipe you're trying to make in the kitchen: tablet....especially if it's waterproof.

      Tablets don't have to do everything you'd do with a desktop. They just have to do some things much, much better than a desktop.

    4. Re:Data Entry by narcc · · Score: 1

      I don't think you've thought this all the way through. In fact, I'm certain you haven't.

    5. Re:Data Entry by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      All I meant was that hypothetically, in the unlikely event that that everything around you was tagged, it wouldn't be a total waste to buy a full-fledged computer without a proper data entry mechanism. Yes, it's impractical.

  23. Why 3D interfaces will never work by rockNme2349 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Humans see in 2 dimensions, we can infer 3D data from various signals I will not go into in this post. When you are viewing something in a 2 dimensional plane, you can see the entirety of the plane at once. When looking in 3-space, you can only see a projection of that space onto a 2 dimensional plane. You will never be able to simply understand everything in that space at one point, which is why they aren't popular. They are difficult to use, and are only useful for gimmicks.

    --
    Sewage Treatment Facilities - "Our duty is clear."
    1. Re:Why 3D interfaces will never work by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Humans see in 2 dimensions, we can infer 3D data from various signals

      Most of the humans I meet have 2 eyes, which gives them 3D vision.

    2. Re:Why 3D interfaces will never work by rockNme2349 · · Score: 1

      Both of those eyes receive two-dimensional pictures and send them to the brain. By comparing the two pictures, which are taken a set distance apart, the brain can infer 3D information from various visual cues.

      For example, on a piece of paper draw a rectangle. You can see anything that is drawn inside of this rectangle because you have 2D vision. You can see the entire picture. Now take a cardboard box. If the box is closed and opaque, you have no way of seeing what is inside the box, because the projection of the 3D world into 2 dimensions cannot contain all of the information in the 3D world.

      Using 2D interfaces allows us to overlook something and see it all, without having to worry about what is being obscured.

      --
      Sewage Treatment Facilities - "Our duty is clear."
    3. Re:Why 3D interfaces will never work by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Now take a cardboard box. If the box is closed and opaque, you have no way of seeing what is inside the box, because the projection of the 3D world into 2 dimensions cannot contain all of the information in the 3D world.

      One does not need to be able to see every face of every object in your world to have 3D vision. Using your definition of "vision", I can't have 2D vision either, because I can't see my toaster. I know it's in the kitchen, but there's a wall in between.

    4. Re:Why 3D interfaces will never work by rockNme2349 · · Score: 1

      OK, i'm going to try to walk you through this, but for further reading, I would look into Flatland

      You can't see your toaster because it is in a 3 dimensional world and you do not have three dimensional vision. An example of 3 dimensional vision in the real world is an MRI. Having three dimensional vision does not mean that you see every face of every object, it means you see every object in its entirety. When I look on a piece of paper, I can see all the information on that piece of paper. When I look into the real world, even though I only have 2D vision, I can imply some depth based on stereoscopic cues, shadows and lighting. The brain is also trained to infer 3D data based off of past experiences. Your brain knows how to fill in the gaps of information that it does not have, which is why you don't notice the blind spot in your eye where the nerve connects.

      Picture something that resides in a two-dimensional plane. If you draw a line on a piece of paper it won't have any idea what is on the other side, because it can't see through the line. Since we have two-dimensional vision we can see across that line. The same applies in the three dimensional world. If someone puts up a wall in space, you can't see across it, but for a creature with 3 dimensional vision it would be trivial to see the other side, just like you could see both sides of the line on the paper.

      Think of the game dig-dug. When digging through the ground you can see everything that exists on the playing field. If they tried to make this game 3D with depths, some of your tunnels would be obscured if you traveled into the plane of the screen and then turned.

      --
      Sewage Treatment Facilities - "Our duty is clear."
    5. Re:Why 3D interfaces will never work by Dr_Terminus · · Score: 1

      I think you've misinterpreted the implications of Flatland. Those were 2D beings existing in a 3D world. So they were blind of anything outside their plane of existence. If we were similar to them, I would only be able to resolve one plane at a time - e.g. if I focus on my desktop, that would be the only plane that 'exists' to me, nothing behind, above or below. But I can see my desktop and the floor all at the same time, therefore I can see three dimensions.

      However one implication from the book for humans is that we are 3D creatures living in a 4D world. We only see one plane in 'time' - that is, we only see the present. If we were to encounter a 4D creature, it would be able to do things that, to us, would seem like magic, jumping in and out of the present, etc.

      The dig-dug example is similar to what happens in Flatland. You as a player can see all the details of the 2D world because you see in 3D - that is you exist in a plane above the 2D dig-dug world. If you were to put yourself in the mind of the dig-dug character, however, the details of the rest of the dig-dug world would be obscured to you.

  24. Pfffft, this gizmodo editorial sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Has anyone RTFA??? The author claims that the iPhone is radical because it "transforms" into various appliances.... an idea lead by the "visionary" Jef Raskins (Oh, let's forget about that stupid Canon Cat idea which kinda F'd up any idea of how much of a Nostradamus this guy was.

    It's called "Maximize" in any modern GUI. Hide the start menu, make your screen black, set up "one touch" for desktop icons, and every application now magically has an iPhone interface.

    1. Re:Pfffft, this gizmodo editorial sucks by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The part you're missing is that Mr. Raskin was proposing this before there were maximize buttons....or windows, for that matter. That's what made him visionary.

      As for the rest of your rant, the iPhone form factor requires application developers to really tailor the interface to the task, instead of using crutches like lots of menus, toolbars and 'wizards'. In addition, each app is only trying to do a very small set of tasks, which again reduces UI complexity.

      The result is a far more intuitive interface on most iPhone app UIs.

  25. Desktop going away? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article author seems to think that the iPhone interface is going to take over everything. That the app-that-takes-over-the-whole-screen paradigm is the universal solution to all computing.

    We did that, twenty years ago. As soon as we developed computers powerful enough to multitask, we did. And I don't mean playing music in the background, but running multiple programs at once and interacting with them. For a small screen mobile device the one app at a time paradigm is pretty much mandatory. For larger screens, you want to see multiple things at a time.

    1. Re:Desktop going away? by slim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Except that, in Windows land at least, many applications seem to be designed to be run maximised. So we alt-tab between them. Office, Photoshop, Eclipse, they all do it.

      When windowing was starting to mature, we had some nice desktop environments that encouraged cooperation between applications that shared a screen. For example, in Sun's OpenView, to load a file into their TextEditor, you'd drag from a file window onto "document" hotspot. To save you'd drag from the hotspot into the file window.

      Acorn's RiscOS was really big on drag & drop between windows.

      We see a lot less of that now. When you do drag and drop, you usually drop onto an application, rather than a specific part of its window. It's a mechanism for doing less precise things. And it's usually acheived by dragging to the MacOS Dock, or in Windows by doing the tedious "drag to the task bar, hover til your app comes to the front, drag back up, drop" routine.

    2. Re:Desktop going away? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that, in Windows land at least, many applications seem to be designed to be run maximised. So we alt-tab between them. Office, Photoshop, Eclipse, they all do it.

      Dude, it's the 21st century. None of that is true any more. If an app runs better full screen then it's usually either because a) you're working with a huge piece of content such as a picture or b) your monitor is too small. The only thing I ever run full screen is Visual Studio, and I can and have run two VS windows side by side without any UI annoyances. My Office windows match the document size and shape. My browsers are sized to I can have two side by side with just a little overlap. Photoshop is pretty much the only app that has to be run fullscreen. If it just used a more multi-monitor friendly UI like Pixelmator and (gasp) Gimp have that wouldn't be necessary. It's part of why I prefer Pixelmator and GIMP...none of that One Window To Rule Them All crap.

      Basically if you're running your apps full screen, you're doing it wrong.

    3. Re:Desktop going away? by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      I actually think one of the primary reasons that the Windows world is still filled with "fullscreen only" apps is because there are lots of users and developers who grew up thinking that way due to their computers being set to run at 800x600 or 1024x768 for way too long (Mac and *nix users seemed to crave higher resolutions to a much higher degree), hell I still have friends who insist on running their $2,500 gaming rigs hooked up to some crappy old 17" CRT running at 1280x960@75Hz "because CRTs are better than LCD monitors (and I'm too cheap to buy a new monitor)". Not to mention that pre-XP most Windows users were used to not being able to run more than one app at a time (hell, any random combination of telnet client + irc client + web browser + winamp used to be enough to cause Win9x to crash at least once every couple of hours), and while that may also have been true for Mac OS prior to Mac OS X most Mac users still seemed to crave higher resolutions (not to mention that if you bought a Mac back in those days you generally did so somewhere where the choice in monitors probably didn't include 14-15" monitors barely capable of crapping out 1024x768@75Hz).

      As an example, my boss, former coder turned CIO, he still runs all apps fullscreen and seems to spend more time trying to find the right window but absolutely refuses to trying running his apps "un-maximised" because he has always run his apps maximised...

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    4. Re:Desktop going away? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      On Windows, yes. That's one of the things that bugs people moving from Windows to the Mac, in fact. The "maximize" button on a Mac window does not maximize to fill the whole screen.

      IE does the fill the screen thing, and a lot of websites are (very annoyingly) designed assuming a window that fills a particular size screen. Photoshop doesn't though - Photoshop windows are specifically sized to fit the image and do not normally maximize to fill the whole screen. Office has lots of options for zooming documents, etc. including a feature (on by default no?) to fit the document to the width of the window, which only makes sense if you expect windows to be different widths.

      If you watch the workflow of most professional computer users who are doing something other than using a web browser, you will find that they frequently use different windows from different apps (or different windows from the same app) at the same time, whether it's a coder with a text editor and a few terminals open, or a secretary going back and forth between multiple documents. Multiple monitors, which are more popular now than ever before, are overwhelmingly used to display more than one window at once.

    5. Re:Desktop going away? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I don't think the general-purpose desktop computer will go away, but I think it's true that we are starting to see computing a little more distributed among a bunch of single-purpose devices. (not really single-purpose, but limited-purpose devices?)

      Years ago, people foresaw computers in everything, and each computer being used for pretty much 1 thing. So you saw things where there was a computer built-in to a refrigerator and everyone laughed at how impractical and silly that was. It was silly, but on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if we saw embedded computers in most TVs in the next few years. We have the technology now to put a small computer with wireless networking and video decoding into our TVs without adding a whole lot of size, weight, or cost, and so it's already happening.

      Another example of this sort of thing is the Kindle. It's a little computer that does a few things, but does them better than a desktop would. It's light, easy to carry around, easy to hold in one hand, and because of the e-paper display it provides a good reading experience.

      And then of course there's smart phones. They don't aim to replace desktop computers. Though lots of people act like they're going to take over, they really only do a few things very well. For a smartphone to be adequate, you need to be able to get by with slow input, no tactile feedback, small screens, and big UI elements. (GPS devices are another example of single-purpose computers, but they're really being swallowed by smartphones these days)

      So in this sense, I agree with the author: more computing tasks are probably going to move into being done on limited-purpose devices (i.e. "single-purpose devices" that actually do a handful of things). There will be a shift in how we interact with computers and how we think of them. There will still be desktop computers where we sit down to work and multitask, but there may also be a couple of different devices that you carry around and use for communication/entertainment/utility as well as a couple devices in your home, and these devices will be targeted towards mostly doing one thing at a time.

      Because honestly, when I'm using my phone, I don't generally just sit down and multitask on it unless I'm trying to kill time. I take it out when I want to make a phone call or when I want to look a particular thing up on the Internet. I'm sure part of the value of an e-reader to me would be that I would only use it for one thing at a time. When I sit with my laptop, I read web pages, check email, listen to music, IM people, watch videos, and do all kinds of stuff more or less at the same time. When I sit down to read a book, I want to just sit down to read a book. When I talk to someone on the phone, I just want to talk to that person on the phone.

    6. Re:Desktop going away? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      For larger screens, you want to see multiple things at a time.

      You do. And I do.

      Novice users don't. They're just doing one thing at a time anyway, so multiple windows are just another way to confuse them.

      And really, the need for multiple tasks depends on what you're using it for. If I'm working, I'm probably needing to keep track of more than one thing at a time, which yields multiple windows (and multiple monitors now). But I'm doing lengthy, complex tasks.

      If I'm doing a single, focused task like cooking, multiple windows are bad. Or if I'm doing a single short task, such as checking the weather, having a bunch of windows just gets in the way.

    7. Re:Desktop going away? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree with what you've said, but disagree with your interpretation. Our computing tasks aren't moving from desktops to other things, we're doing NEW computing tasks using new devices.

      There were a few people who read books on their desktops or laptops, but not many. E-book readers aren't taking any function away from regular computers, they're creating a whole new computing task. Ditto with TV-connected computers.

    8. Re:Desktop going away? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Yes. This is why we have operating systems that support both modes. You can have an app that takes over the whole screen, or maximize a window to fill the whole screen. Or you can use apps that don't do this.

      The author seems to be suggesting that all the operating systems of the future won't even allow the possibility of multiple windows or multiple apps sharing the screen. The smart phone interface will expand to take over everything.

    9. Re:Desktop going away? by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      I have to agree. Multipul programs open at the same time is nice, but in actuality, it really isn't that neccessary. As long as one can switch between them seemlessly, you can accomplish all the same tasks. Many people, even power users, only look at one window at a time, and then switch between them.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    10. Re:Desktop going away? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Well, a fair amount of my email reading has gone to my phone. If I had an ebook reader, I think I'd probably find a way to have it aggregate the weblogs that I frequent. I used to watch podcasts on my computer, but I now watch them on my TV. So it's not strictly new tasks.

      But yes, you're right, they are often either "new tasks" or taking old tasks into new settings. Now I can read my email wherever I want to instead of at my desk. I can watch podcasts as part of my TV-watching rituals. In a sense, those are new tasks too.

    11. Re:Desktop going away? by joh · · Score: 1

      Why do so many people run their Windows apps with maximized windows all the time then? The thing is that most people (I mean most "normal" people) do *not* like to see multiple things at a time. They want to see only one thing at a time and that's the thing they're currently looking at or working with.

      And I have to say in most cases I agree with them. There are cases where it is really useful to see more than one thing at a time, but this mostly limited to real work. In reality the teeming complexity of user interfaces is just a sign of the developers being lazy and thinking "let the user sort out this mess".

    12. Re:Desktop going away? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The author seems to be suggesting that all the operating systems of the future won't even allow the possibility of multiple windows or multiple apps sharing the screen.

      I don't see the author making that leap.

      His argument seems to be that a single-window paradigm works very well in some situations, like what he believes is the target of the tablet PC.

      He seems to be thinking about it just as an over sized iPhone, and not a desktop replacement.

    13. Re:Desktop going away? by initialE · · Score: 1

      Turns out that when you say multiple, quite often you mean 2. I like the Win7 snap feature, where you drag a window to the side to take up 50% of the screen - it makes drag and drop easy, and it also makes it easy to see 2 windows side by side, no overlap. I use it often, and have not needed a third window in there (although if i did, i'd be pretty annoyed, since Windows no longer has the ability to tile multiple windows)

      --
      Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
    14. Re:Desktop going away? by shilly · · Score: 1

      I don't think this is quite true. Most people run their apps maximised to be full-screen because

      1)they are concentrating on one thing at a time. Having other windows around is distracting.
      2)they need the real estate. When I'm editing a slide, I want the slide to be just about life size (most of the time) and to have a decent palette of tools readily to hand. And Excel users in particular will typically want to as much screen real-estate as possible, because they want to see as many rows and columns as possible -- and they'll still find they're unable to see everything they want to at once.

      It might be different for coders, but that's how it is for business users.

  26. In short: by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes.

    At the very least, forcing users to learn something new can hardly be considered a usability improvement. Trying to represent files on a computer in anything more than two dimensions is always going to fail because it messes up the presentation to information ratio.

    3D file managers are like powerpoint presentations with lots of animations and noises. The concept sounds really cool, until you actually realize that you are not adding information, but rather distracting from it.

    --
    "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    1. Re:In short: by nine-times · · Score: 1

      At the very least, forcing users to learn something new can hardly be considered a usability improvement.

      That assumes that users really need to learn things. The best UIs are often those that match intuitively with our preexisting intuitions about the world. It's not quite that simple, but I definitely think a good UI designer can exploit a lot of our natural understanding of time and space and simple mechanics to make an interface that requires very little learning.

      3D file managers are like powerpoint presentations with lots of animations and noises.

      I generally agree with this, though. There are 3D elements that are useful (e.g. visual cues like drop shadows that give you a sense of depth between windows that are stacked above each other), but generally the attempts I've seen to make 3D GUIs haven't worked very well.

    2. Re:In short: by badasscat · · Score: 1

      That assumes that users really need to learn things. The best UIs are often those that match intuitively with our preexisting intuitions about the world. It's not quite that simple, but I definitely think a good UI designer can exploit a lot of our natural understanding of time and space and simple mechanics to make an interface that requires very little learning.

      There's nothing "natural" about using a table computer in the first place. You will always need to learn the interface, unless that interface is based around a metaphor previously learned but familiar that we've all been doing since we were kids.

      Something, for example, like manipulating documents on a desktop.

      There's a reason why the desktop model has endured the way it has. And that's because it's something that everybody knows how to deal with. It's not "intuitive" anymore than a 3D interface would be, but it is something that's almost universally learned from a very young age. And there is no reason to change it, from a usability standpoint or otherwise. There's no such thing as an intuitive computer interface, so I wish so-called UI "experts" would drop that word from their vocabulary. There are only interfaces that are more or less easy to learn. A desktop UI is easy to learn. A 3D UI is not.

    3. Re:In short: by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      I just installed fsv, which was inspired by SGI's 3D file viewer. It's almost a joke. Perhaps I have things misconfigured, but I can't even get my scroll wheel to work with it. Visualization is essentially limited to "this is a big file," so it gets a big Gouraud shaded rectangle. On a modern file browser, at least the image files get thumbnail icons. Even MP3s can be associated with album artwork.

      But there's very little beyond "Wow, you've got a lot of big files in your "downloads" directory.

      To be fair, the original was developed for SGI workstations. Some of those had specialized hardware for interacting with 3D objects, and even stereo imaging. Such a machine would (typically) be operated by users with intuitive understanding of 3D space. Perhaps some small advantage beyond eye candy could be realized.

      I still am suffering under the illusion that the effects that Exposé and Spaces enhance the usability of those programs. Perhaps, with the addition of head tracking, stereo displays and 3d gestures, a meaningful 3d interface might be possible.

    4. Re:In short: by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      big Gouraud shaded rectangle

      Sorry. I should have said "flat shaded."

      ogl.c:79: glShadeModel( GL_FLAT );

    5. Re:In short: by nine-times · · Score: 1

      . There's no such thing as an intuitive computer interface, so I wish so-called UI "experts" would drop that word from their vocabulary.

      I think you can only claim that if you're looking at the UI objectively rather than as a human tool.

      Now I'm sure that statement of mine is terrifically unclear, so let me see if I can flesh it out a little: No UI is absolutely objectively more "intuitive" than another, but some are more intuitive to human beings than others. If you stop looking at computers as bear objects and look at them in the context of human use, you find that certain metaphors are easier than others for people to relate to. If you layout information one way, it might be very difficult for a person to understand quickly. Lay the exact same information out a different way, and people might be able to understand it immediately.

      More and more we're finding that the tabula rasa model of mental development doesn't reflect reality. People don't seem to come with a whole lot of information at birth, but people generally share a bunch of instincts, intuitions, biases, and methods of processing information. Whether it's from birth or we learn it from early-life experience, we all understand the concepts of grabbing things, pushing things, pulling things, and pointing at things.

      All this isn't an argument for 3D interfaces instead of 2D interfaces, but some interfaces are more intuitive than others. Successful 2D interfaces already make use of our spacial intuition and common non-inborn ideas like "trash". Even things like "checkboxes" come from conventions that existed before computers, and those conventions were in turn based on layouts that were easy for people to understand.

    6. Re:In short: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amazing how many people still uses a 1-dimensionl UI for navigating the file hierarchy, the command prompt!

    7. Re:In short: by erko · · Score: 1

      ...Trying to represent files on a computer in anything more than two dimensions is always going to fail ...

      Always?!?!!! You obviously haven't seen Hackers... or Jurassic Park!

    8. Re:In short: by centuren · · Score: 1

      All this isn't an argument for 3D interfaces instead of 2D interfaces, but some interfaces are more intuitive than others. Successful 2D interfaces already make use of our spacial intuition and common non-inborn ideas like "trash". Even things like "checkboxes" come from conventions that existed before computers, and those conventions were in turn based on layouts that were easy for people to understand.

      I've played around with various attempts at 3D interfaces, and they all came down to one main issue: input devices. That traditional 2D interfaces are more efficient to use with traditional 2D input devices is not the least be surprising. It's one thing to implement an idea about how a user could interact with a computer in 3D using a mouse and keyboard, but it still boils down to those devices having flourished in computing due to their intrinsic efficiency with traditional 2D interfaces.

      In order for a 3D interface to work intuitively and efficiently, we will need a new way to interact with the computer that is equally intuitive and efficient to the specific 3D interface. One might say, we moved out of the terminal and into a desktop environment successfully thanks to the mouse being added to the keyboard, and to move out of a 2D interface to a 3D interface, we will need another innovation in human input devices. Something that's not just "new" or "made for 3D space", but also specifically successful at the very specialised task of human input.

      For example, you can stand in front of an XBox with Project Natal, pretend you're holding a steering wheel, and watch your movements control your car in a game like Need for Speed (or whichever was demo'd). It's neat, but certainly not the way to get high scores compared to a regular controller (for which the game was designed). In the case of the Wii, hardware and software are often designed to go together. This doesn't replace anything, however, it creates something new: gaming where fun is derived (on a game-by-game basis) from gesturing. We get an experience different than controller-based games, not an inherently "better" way to interact with games (only gesturing games).

    9. Re:In short: by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      You're right, they have. And it's multi-touch. Look, using a mouse is an anti-intuitive task. We're not trained/equipped to use remote tools to manipulate something, it feels alien.

      Now grabbing something and manipulating it... that's what we've evolved hands for. That's why people are ga-ga over multitouch. For the first time, computing seems to make sense, is easy.

      If you saw Avatar, there was a scene when they were first interface Jake to his avatar, and one of the scientists grabs a brain scan off of a monitor and transfers it to a portable tablet. That's something that's intuitive to us. Mice are great, I suppose, but completely alien to us as control inputs.

      It's why fine digital work is often done with pen tablets - wielding pens is far more natural/intuitive to people.

  27. RIP Desktop Metaphor by mosb1000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've always thought that the desktop metaphor was a short sighted misstep in interface design. It doesn't scale well. It tries to duplicate a convention that is the result of the realities of storing and managing physical files, and along with that it duplicates all of it's shortcomings. I have been very pleased to see, through the iPhone and the internet, that it is finally passing away.

    I too hope that the tablet mac follows this trend. Rest in peace desktop metaphor, may your days on my computer soon be ended.

    1. Re:RIP Desktop Metaphor by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      As long as it allows for complex hierarchical data structures, I could care less what metaphor they use. But I suspect that it's precisely that, "hierarchical data structures" that people are having problems with. Get used to it people, it's an inevitable part of every day life.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    2. Re:RIP Desktop Metaphor by Mista2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, in Aplpe land, Front Row will show all 500 of my movies an TV shows from my media drive, in one freeking long list, with no alphabetised quick jump, or search feature at all. the remote only has 6 buttons, and half the time thtwo of thm navigate up and down, and the other half change the volume. And how about a little feedback that frontrow is even launching?? I used ot press the menu button, wait, then press it again, then fronrow would launch-then exit, because the same button to launch it also closes it!! If you get really impatient and press and hold menu, your mac sleeps!! Grrrr!!

      The onion article on the Apple click-wheel really shows you can take minmalisim too far for devices that you actually have to use.
      If Apple were to design a car, it would only have two doors, tha you have to use a specual $60 handle to open, and you need one for each user. There would only be one pedal - the go pedal. Press on it to go, lift off and the brakes automatically apply, based on the speed you lifted off, and the distance to an object you might impact detected by several very expensive sensors. The seats would not be adjustable, and would fit almost no one, (but they doo look nice and are an excellent minimalist fashion statement, and if like iPone earbuds, will be broken in 2 months or atlest, even more unconmfortable)

      You'll be able to get the worlds smallest two seater car, that is pretty slow nad has no storage in the boot, a range of nice, expensive aluminium bodied cars, and one expensive plastic car, only one utility vehicle, but lots of powerful engines, but no large trucks. or sprots cars that can be upgraded.
      All will have the hoods welded shut, and there will only be one guage, the iSpeed guage, but you can use that to purchase DRMed fuel and other consumeables. After all, Apple Oil wouldnt want you running your "other" cars on the premium AppleGas - runs-for-sure fuel!

      Bu there will eb a large market for thurdparties to provide neat new Garages that are specially designed to park your iCar in, as long as you dont want to retrieve any of your baggage from the iCar unless you are at home in your own iGarage dock-way.

      But they will all be beautiful to look at, and people will say, "didn't Apple make cars easier to use?"

  28. Mostly-receive devices by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's a difference between devices that are mostly for receiving information, and those that are for doing something with it. Music players, "e-book" readers, navigation devices, and entertainment devices in general are mostly-receive. They need a much simpler interface than a creation device. Try to cram a CAD application into the iPhone interface. It's possible, but it's not happy there.

    This is a bigger distinction than the form factor. Mostly-receive devices can get along with a blunt interface of big buttons.

  29. WSJ by copponex · · Score: 2, Informative

    Once the Wall Street Journal starts publishing details, you know that they are using a purposeful leak. They wouldn't put their reputation on a rumor, and Apple has to keep their secretive product development intact to preserve their brand identity.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703405704575015362653644260.html

    1. Re:WSJ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WSJ. Reputation. Rumour. Hahahah. Hahaha. Where were you when they were reporting on Iraq?

    2. Re:WSJ by copponex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The WSJ spreads rumors about Iraq to protect it's interests. The WSJ doesn't spread rumors about Apple to protect it's interests. If this seems like a moral inconsistency, it is. That would presuppose the staff of the WSJ had any values.

    3. Re:WSJ by Velorium · · Score: 1

      Mossberg talked about new revisions of the iPhone several times before any sort of acknowledgment from Apple, it is most definitely a purposeful leak.

  30. Brain Interface... by jameskojiro · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Is the next big step, ie. Cyberbrains....

    Turn everyone with one into a info savant and idiot. Only then will we be able to reach the holy grail of computing, "LOL cats IN yur head, messin' up yur mew-ons"

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
    1. Re:Brain Interface... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turn everyone with one into a info savant and idiot.

      Well, we're almost halfway there already....

  31. Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by Em+Ellel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can someone please SERIOUSLY ( no pro or anti apple fanaticism please) explain what exactly is so revolutionary about iPhone interface?

    They have pages of icons - kind of like desktop UI, but pretty much EXACLY like 90's PalmOS and many other portable OS's.

    They added gestures on OS level (scroll bar everywhere, instead of certain part of the screen), which was also available on PC and some advanced PalmOS apps - although it was a nice touch to make it part of OS. Multi-touch is cute, but hardly a revolution (except maybe literally)

    They removed many standard UI components like date pickers and replaced them with clunky wheels - that was probably a step back.

    They added a software repository- the kind Linux world was using for a decade.

    They added extra sensors to the OS - which were nice, but also been available on other devices for a while.

    There is nothing new here except for putting bunch of existing things all together, for which they certainly deserve praise, but all in all it seems like a great evolutionary work, hardly a revolutionary one.

    -Em

    --
    RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    1. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by starglider29a · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To quote^H^H^H^H^Haparaphrase an IBM commercial: "...the greatest thing since sliced bread. But the person who invented sliced bread didn't invent bread. He didn't even invent slicing."

      Take all of the "like..." statements you made, which are all over the map, and put it all in one place. "putting bunch of existing things all together"... is the revolution.

      Saying there is nothing new here is like saying that you take some rockets, some heat shielding, some wings and make the space shuttle. No biggie.

    2. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by radish · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As you say, it was the combination and the polish. There's no one thing (that I can think of) on the iPhone that you can't find on some previous device/software. But there's also no previous device with all (or even many) of those things, polished to such a high degree. From a feature list point of view it's certainly evolutionary - but I'd certainly say it was revolutionary from an overall user experience point of view.

      As the Gizmodo article points out, the general UI idea of a page of icons which load full screen apps is just like Palm. And I was a big Palm fan back in the day - their problem was that although the UI was fine, it was hampered by the tech to the point where even if the concept worked it was so unattractive to use as to be very niche. Resistive touch screens required stylii, which suck. Early models were monochrome, even color models had nothing like the graphical fidelity of the iPhone. The graphics chips couldn't do things like full screen animations, fades, etc and of course there was no such thing as persistent wireless internet (and yes, I had the Palm III GSM modem, it blew chunks even then!). Apple waited until the tech existed to do what they knew would impress people, rather than try to make something they hoped would sell within the limits of the available tech. In the process they pretty much totally reinvented the highend cellphone market and IMHO brought the PDA concept back from the dead.

      My personal story: I'm not an Apple fan. I do own a Mac, but it's my least used machine and I really don't like it very much. I grew up on Atari, DOS/Windows, Palm, Nokia and later Linux. When the iPhone came out I had no intention of buying one, until I happened to be by the Apple store in a mall on launch weekend and popped in to see what all the fuss was about. Within a couple of minutes of playing with it I was in line to buy one, and several upgrades later I have no regrets. I still detest iTunes, and am officially "meh" on OSX, but nothing is tempting me away from the iPhone. Android has potential, but it's not there yet.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    3. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by NotPeteMcCabe · · Score: 1

      The revolution part lies not in the brand new features etc., but in how many people begin using the new interface in the real world. The original Macintosh was an evolution on Xerox PARC designs, but the Mac spread those ideas to millions of actual people, from whence they spread to Windows (and thus billions of people). Same with the iPod: comparable devices existed, but the iPod is the one that everyone started using. That's the revolution, and it never looks like one to people on the inside of the industry.

    4. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      I think the only people talk about being "revolutionary" is the multitouch stuff. It's more than just "cute", but there is a limit to its usefulness. Also, when you get down to it, it's only a couple of gestures implemented in a couple of places. It mostly amounts to a very good way of zooming in and out.

      I think what people like about the interface is that it's simple and direct and it works well. Instead of using a stylus to point to tiny checkboxes or using scroll wheel with your thumb to navigate through the OS, they just made all the controls simple enough and big enough that you can just point to what you want and it does what you want. It's well designed, not revolutionary.

    5. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by Em+Ellel · · Score: 1

      The revolution part lies not in the brand new features etc., but in how many people begin using the new interface in the real world. The original Macintosh was an evolution on Xerox PARC designs, but the Mac spread those ideas to millions of actual people, from whence they spread to Windows (and thus billions of people). Same with the iPod: comparable devices existed, but the iPod is the one that everyone started using. That's the revolution, and it never looks like one to people on the inside of the industry.

      I understand your point, but it just does not sit well with me. I would find it difficult to accept that Microsoft is revolutionary of the Graphical Interface - I would much more give this credit to Xerox or, in smaller sense maybe to Apple - but by this logic, Microsoft deserves full credit for it. I would also not give HP the title of a revolutionary in laser printing - they neither invented the process nor had the most advanced devices, but they were the de-facto standard of laser printing - so are they a Revolutionary? Is Wal-Mart a revolutionary in selling products because they hold 10+% of the market? Is DELL the revolutionary of the computer industry (well, yes they were revolutionary in some sense, but not because they control such a huge part of the market)?

      I think a lot of those things are revolutionary in terms of marketing and sales, but somehow the concept of market share making you a technological revolutionary is just a bit off for me.

      -Em

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    6. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by badasscat · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Saying there is nothing new here is like saying that you take some rockets, some heat shielding, some wings and make the space shuttle. No biggie.

      Well, that's an odd metaphor, considering that most generally consider the space shuttle to be a failure at the mission for which it was originally conceived. And two of the five orbiters have been lost to accidents. The overall program safety rate is much worse than the rockets that preceded it.

      The point being, yes, it takes some imagination to put all these things together in a certain way. But just displaying imagination does not equal a revolution. In many ways, the iPhone interface - like the space shuttle - is a step backwards. It's not that people are arguing that the iPhone is exactly like other things. They're arguing that the iPhone doesn't really improve the UI experience from where we were before. Those are two different statements, and you're arguing with the former whereas most people are making the latter.

    7. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by Em+Ellel · · Score: 1

      I think the only people talk about being "revolutionary" is the multitouch stuff. It's more than just "cute", but there is a limit to its usefulness. Also, when you get down to it, it's only a couple of gestures implemented in a couple of places. It mostly amounts to a very good way of zooming in and out.

      Personally I find the double click works much better than pinching, but both methods suffer greatly if your material has a lot of links (most of the time if you accidentally hit one, you have to wait the few minutes as it tries to open Safari, then close it then re-open and find what you were looking at in the first place - just to try to zoom and be caught by same thing again.

      -Em

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    8. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can someone please SERIOUSLY ( no pro or anti apple fanaticism please) explain what exactly is so revolutionary about iPhone interface?

      It has no buttons and does not use a stylus. Can't think of another UI like that before the iPhone.

    9. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ENCOM

    10. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      It's good for zooming into a particular set of text or something, but the pinching action does give a bit of additional control. For example, try zooming in and out to different degrees on different details in photos on your iPhone.

    11. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Whoever sold the first PC clone motherboard made a revolutionary decision, but Dell is merely evolutionary; people were doing what Dell was doing before he was doing it. He's simply the first to build a big-assed corporation on it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by Tom · · Score: 1

      Can someone please SERIOUSLY ( no pro or anti apple fanaticism please) explain what exactly is so revolutionary about iPhone interface?

      A five year old can use it, but it doesn't feel or look childish.

      That's it in a nutshell. The interface is pure interface design sweetness. It's a bit like a great music piece - you can't analyse why it's so great because the greatness isn't in the individual notes or pitches or tempo changes, it's in the sum total and how everything fits together just perfectly.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    13. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by narcc · · Score: 1

      It has no buttons and does not use a stylus.

      Nope, no buttons at all...

      Except the Sleep/Wake button, the volume-control buttons, and the home button.

    14. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by jedwidz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From my perspective, the iPhone really is a revolution in easy-to-use, intuitive user interface design.

      At 20 months old my son could pick up an iPhone, unlock it, start apps, browse videos and play games.

      Six months later, I'm still trying to explain to him the relationship between the touchpad and a little arrow on the screen - before we even get to clicking things, opening the 'Start' menu, etc, etc, etc.

    15. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're looking too closely.

      Assume the perfect interface is one that can read your intent directly from your mind.

      Can you think of any other interface that comes as close to this as the IPhone's?

      Never has it been more natural to express your intent to a device, or even close to as natural.

      So it is the shortest path to your mind.

    16. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by shilly · · Score: 1

      He was arguing that designing a shuttle was *hard* despite the underlying concepts being well-understood, not that the job was done well. It's not about imagination -- it's about day-to-day engineering to make it work well together and be a consistent whole. The shuttle precisely exemplifies why that is a hard thing to do. Saying that the iPhone OS and UI are not an improvement on what we had before is silly -- there was no device previously available that successfully combined a phone / web-browser / media-player and general-purpose computer. Phone OSes were (and mostly remain) notoriously clunky. The breakthrough was about real-world usability, and they did it with small steps and attention to detail. Apple are not in love with novelty for the sake of novelty and will happily re-use older ideas if that makes sense for the user.

    17. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by shilly · · Score: 1

      Five year old? Pah! My three-year old has been able to flick through photos etc for a year, and he's a slowcoach -- there are videos on YouTube of a *10-month* baby able doing this... a clear sign of how intuitive the interaction mechanism is

    18. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by argent · · Score: 1

      Can you think of any other interface that comes as close to this as the IPhone's?

      My Handspring Visor, back in 2000.

    19. Re:Nice, sure, but revolutionary? by Mista2 · · Score: 1

      To be honest, it's not that the interface is really good, is that it is really simple. Even my 3 year old daughter can take my phone swipe through the pages and find the games she likes to play.
      The biggest thing that you actually dont notice until some time later, is how infrequently you have to reboot the whole phone. OS 2.x was no so hot, but I think I have only powercycled my phone about 3 times since upgradeing to OS 3 when it came out. This is compared to the almost daily reboot of my old Windows Mobile based Treo, or atleast going through and clearing out open applications. And the other is the app store really does make it easy to install apps.
      Under Palm OS, there were some good sites that had lots of apps, and they all tended to work well. under Windows mobile, you'd find an app that was only for WinCE (I pronounce that as wince) or for Windows Mobile5, or just crashes for some reason on the Winmobile6 platform, or is for a larger screen format, or wasn't really made for touch, as only the top end Win mobiles had touch screens.
      Then there is calendar synch - I could nearly get good calander and contact sync in Winmobile and Palm, but really only with Windows and outlook. Pumasoft had some good synch software I used to get my Treo to synch, which was much faster than Palms own utlity, but all were poor synch tools with Linux. You even had to run windows binary executables to even install apps on win mobile.
      My iPhone just synchs perfectly with GMail, calendar and contacts. I then synch everything else with GMail. The only part I dont like about iPhone, is HAVING to use iTunes for synching everything else. It is a crappy application, a huge resource hog, and is designed primarily to make Apple money, not help you organise your media. My favourite music manager is Amarok under KDE3.5 - this is just awesome, it fetches lyrics, cover art, streams radio, burns audio CDs just by picking a dozen tracks and rightclick-burn, not the whole Create playlist, add to playlist, then burn crap in iTunes.
      Oh and how about a better search engine for the iTunes store? I guess google makes you think that all search engines might use context to rank search results, but itunes - nope, if you search for "science fiction" in podcasts, the top hits are science or fiction 'casts, nothing to do with SyFy at all!
      Meanwhile Apple seems to be removing features from OS X - I used to like the tool that allowed you to summarise a selected piece of text in 10.5. Seems to be gone in 10.6 . All in the name of simplifying the interface I guess.

  32. You said you'd never forget. by copponex · · Score: 1

    vi v. emacs
    or even
    vi v. vim

    Prepare to eat your words, sir. 80 columns at a time.

  33. Silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here are the facts - if Apple releases what is just a big iPhone it will be boring. If they do something really new, it will be buggy, and if they use OSX, then it will be more of the same. And no matter what they release, it will cost too much for anyone to spend too much time caring about...

    1. Re:Silly by billsayswow · · Score: 0

      Very good point. Sure, they're be coming to a liberal arts school near you, but aside from some poofy college kids, I doubt you'll see these everywhere, like you do with iPhones and such. It's going to cost way more than an iPod, and you can't get one discounted through your cell phone provider.

  34. You're right, it's not revolutionary. by argent · · Score: 1

    Can someone please SERIOUSLY (no pro or anti apple fanaticism please) explain what exactly is so revolutionary about iPhone interface?

    Nothing. It's just the next evolutionary step of the model Palm introduced in the '90s. It doesn't make sense for a tablet.

    Now if they were to bring back the Newton scroll, that would be interesting.

    1. Re:You're right, it's not revolutionary. by Em+Ellel · · Score: 1

      Can someone please SERIOUSLY (no pro or anti apple fanaticism please) explain what exactly is so revolutionary about iPhone interface?

      Nothing. It's just the next evolutionary step of the model Palm introduced in the '90s. It doesn't make sense for a tablet.

      Now if they were to bring back the Newton scroll, that would be interesting.

      Well, evolutionary vs revolutionary aside, I actually think that the iPhone interface maybe a good match for a tablet platform (though in interest of full disclosure, personally I would prefer a platform with more freedom and more open to innovation).

      Key here is the realization that Computer Age is over, and we are now in the Information Age. If you give up on the idea that a tablet should be a computer replacement and accept that most people do not need/want a computer - they want access to information. Modern crop of advanced phones like iPhone and smartphones have opened this concept to the public, but even the new Droid/Nexus screens, despite being much better than iPhone's, are still way too small for full access - so a tablet version of this ( "a computer for idiots" so-to-speak) may be a perfect next device. All you need is a web/email UI plus ability to run simple apps that access data over the internet - and the computer becomes irrelevant to most people. Announcement of KDK is yet another nail in general use computer's coffin. If Apple or Asus, or someone else in computer industry not going to put a usable tablet out soon, Kindle and other ebook readers are going to eat their lunch.

      -Em

      (P.S. I am not saying computers will be obsolete, but that they will become a more commercial, heavy duty device that will not be found in most households - just workplaces and SOME households of people interested in this sort of a thing)

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    2. Re:You're right, it's not revolutionary. by argent · · Score: 1

      Possibly, for some people, but it's like predicting that public transport will replace the private automobile. I would like to see that happen, and for many people they do, because the cost of getting that personal automobile is significant, or their specific circumstances make a private car inconvenient (eg, they live in New York or London). But where people can afford the private car, they get it. And the price differential between a general purpose computer and a collection of specialized devices that each do part of the job actually goes the other way. Maybe once the acquisition cost for entry level versions of any and all of these devices drops below $50-$100...

  35. Huh? by Scyber · · Score: 1

    What is so magical about the iPhone interface? The same people I see struggle with windows or OS X struggle with the iPhone when they get it. The difference is they tend to use the iphone more on a daily basis than their desktop and are therefore more proficient at specific tasks. Ask them to do something they are unfamiliar with and they struggle. Heck I knew one guy that had an iphone for 3 months and still didn't know how to install an app. I'd guess its more of a generational thing than anything else. My experience has shown that anyone over 55 or so is more likely to struggle when it comes to anything computer related. Under that usually are more proficient with computers (and/or specific programs). So I believe the "iphone ui revolution" had more to do with the timing being right with a large percentage of the population being more computer friendly.

  36. Wait a second!! by billsayswow · · Score: 0

    You mean I'm not getting my pancakes?!! Screw this, back to Linux for me...

  37. Slashvertising in full effect by ae1294 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is the sixth article this month on Slashdot directly relating to a apple {vaporware} tablet...

    1. Re:Slashvertising in full effect by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      Probably not a Slashvertisement, but instead just Slashdot trying to jump on they hype train and garner some hits.

  38. The first interface by copponex · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The netbook craze has shown one thing: average users no longer care about speed or enormous screen size. Honestly, I would have never believed anyone if they said I could buy a gigahertz phone in 2010, I'm not sure I would have believed them. If it can play MP3s, 720p, and requires little maintenance, most users are going to be happy.

    Pretty soon the only thing the user is going to care about is the size of the screen. They'll want it to dock to a keyboard and mouse when they sit down to write a paper. Otherwise, they'd like to drag it around the house. It won't be a computer, so much as an interface to their data - as the article states, a true information appliance.

    The Apple product may suck, but it will probably sell people on the idea that tablets are "cool." And in a way, that may be the most important thing to go to the next level of interaction with computers.

    Think about the iMacs that were just released: wireless keyboard and mouse, enormous display with a stand that only requires a power cable. Exchange the stand with a dock and make it smaller with a touch interface. Hopefully they will provide some good hardware I/O on the dock, but again, for the regular users, they won't care if it has every sort of port in the world. As long as they can get on youtube and facebook without having to fuss with a traditional computer, they will be fine.

    1. Re:The first interface by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that works - if I'm sitting at my desk, I'd like a far bigger screen, than when I'm walking about, when I'd like it in my pocket. I can see one day we'll have phones that can dock to a larger screen, keyboard and mouse, but I'm not sure I see the point in keeping the screen. Indeed, as you say - "the only thing the user is going to care about is the size of the screen" - in other words, they'll care that it's too small in some contexts, too small in others.

      And how do I use the tablet if it's now lying flat on the desk, because I'm typing with the keyboard? Although I guess we could get a stand for it...

      As for:

      The netbook craze has shown one thing: average users no longer care about speed or enormous screen size.

      They no longer care when they want to be mobile. The size of flat screens however as shown that they do still care about screen size at home.

      And the netbook is also cheap - what does a tablet offer that's better, when it's also many times the price?

      The Apple product may suck, but it will probably sell people on the idea that tablets are "cool." And in a way, that may be the most important thing to go to the next level of interaction with computers.

      Tablets are already here. If anyone deserves credit for raising awareness, it should be the media who are the ones actually doing it.

      A tablet makes use in some contexts, but it's not going to be something that replaces all kinds of computers. I hope not, anyway.

  39. Sanctifying Raskin, again by ynotds · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hate posting negatively, even more so about the dead, but it really is time the legend was buried with the man.

    Back when it was still possible I was in a fortunate position which gave me access to many of the Valley's elite.

    Raskin still sticks out in my mind as far and away the least credible.

    Put simply, he suffered problems I've seen afflict other failed would-be futurists in other places. His ideas were all grounded on a past that had never existed. And when the world didn't turn out to match his dreams, it was everybody else's fault.

    On a more positive note, I'm looking forward to forming an opinion of the tablet next Thursday (my time) but don't have over-inflated expectations. At launch, the Touch was clearly the most important user interface innovation since 1984 and the only product in recent years I both ordered and received on the first possible day. But applying Stuart Kauffman's analysis of navigation strategies for rugged fitness landscapes, there is ever less scope for radical innovation and more likelihood of gain from incremental strategies, the bleedingly obvious double click on a word resolution of the supposed problem of a selection interface being a case in point.

    Leaving aside the media capabilities that we can safely assume, my judgment of the tablet will be based on whether it looks likely that it will eventually run a few litmus test applications well enough: Bento, OmniGraffle, Keynote, TextWrangler and Perl 6. I won't need all of them, but might find it harder to justify without at least a couple.

    --
    -- Our systemic servants do not good masters make.
    1. Re:Sanctifying Raskin, again by trouser · · Score: 1

      and what was the user interface innovation of 1984? The reinvention of the windowing GUI or reinvention of the mouse? Or perhaps it was the reinvention of using the two together?

      Of course these remarkable innovations pale in comparison to the more recent reinvention of the touch screen interface on a mobile device. And next week they'll be reinventing the tablet. Awesome.

      --
      Now wash your hands.
    2. Re:Sanctifying Raskin, again by dangitman · · Score: 1

      and what was the user interface innovation of 1984? The reinvention of the windowing GUI or reinvention of the mouse? Or perhaps it was the reinvention of using the two together?

      The innovation was making it all work together smoothly, and forming enduring interface metaphors in the public mind. That wasn't an easy thing to accomplish.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    3. Re:Sanctifying Raskin, again by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      You may be interested in the folklore.org website, particularly this story.

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
  40. Mod Parent Up by copponex · · Score: 1

    The GP is arguing that Photoshop should have the same interface as Excel. Not very convincing.

  41. Finger friendly development is the revolution by zerofoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having endured through tons of interfaces that required a stylus to properly operate, the iPhone was the first that combined a "finger friendly" environment with sleek hardware and the ability to plug into the apple ecosystem.

    I lived through various early versions of Windows Mobile, Palm OS, Windows Mobile on Palm, blackberry, and Good Technology (exchange connectivity many years ago before Microsoft built it into the product).

    At the time they were all great since that was the best we had. Once iPhone came out, all those other solutions felt like ancient technology.

    A similar phenomenon happened with the iPod. MP3 players were around long before iPod, and they were cool, since that is all we had. Once iPod came out, all prior MP3 players looked clunky and old.

    Apple has a habit of setting the bar for design, and a couple of years later, once everyone else catches up, people think that the state of the art always used to be this way. In reality, many technologies did exist before Apple did their version, but Apple has a way of raising the design standard, and forcing others to raise theirs.

    -ted

  42. obligatory 'lame' slashdot quote... by kirkb · · Score: 1

    Okay slashdotters, deadline is Jan 27 to think up some good quotes based on "No X. Less Y than a Z. Lame." Winner whores beaucoup karma. Or not.

    --
    Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
  43. No! by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    am I still going to be reading Apple Tablet might-have stories on /. in 2015

    Of course not! By then, you'll be reading them on your iPad.

    1. Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course not! By then, you'll be reading them on your iPad.

      YAAARRRRRRR, MATEY!

  44. The WSJ has values! by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    The WSJ spreads rumors about Iraq to protect it's interests. The WSJ doesn't spread rumors about Apple to protect it's interests. If this seems like a moral inconsistency, it is. That would presuppose the staff of the WSJ had any values.

    They do. They value the proper use of the apostrophe!

  45. You can't do major projects on an iPhone... by 7Prime · · Score: 1

    People who are writing that the iPhone OS will do for everyday computer use obviously have a skewed view of "everyday computer use". For basic information repository, communication, and entertainment, the iPhone is ideal, but for production and management of "projects", the iPhone is entirely inadequate, as it should be. But a tablet is essentially a laptop in portability, which means that it needs to take over those responsibilities. A laptop can manage workflow, therefore a tablet must also. The iPhone OS can not do this.

    Conclusion: tablet will not survive on an iPhone OS. It can not compete with the iPhone due to decreased portability, and it will not compete with a laptop due to lack of workflow management.

    Apple isn't blind enough to see past this. Will it run a convention "desktop" style window structure? Possibly not, but it will likely have much more sophisticated content management and workflow than what this article is suggesting. I have a lot more faith in Apple at this point than to think they will release a cool but ultimately pointless device.

    The comment about whether or not people like "files" is entirely irrelevant. People may not like files and folders, but they still use them. No one likes organizing their cabinets, or cleaning the house, but they have to do it anyway because it's necessary to function in a efficient manner. The "grab bag" model only works for so long before things get complicated.

    And for those of you who are saying, "this won't be a business computer," that isn't the point. Even while at home, we all have our projects and hobbies that essentially use similar workflow to those of a professional nature. If we didn't, we probably wouldn't even own a computer. Unless this thing is just for games and entertainment, in which it will have a very tough time competing with the Xbox and Wii.

    --
    Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
  46. Hold your proverbial horses by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

    I know speculating is really fun and I've seen some pretty handy suggestions of what the iWhatever might look like, everything from a big iPhone to something far more exotic. It is a bit ridiculous, though, that so many people are so damned excited over something I don't think has even been admitted to be "in the works" and really is just One More Thing.

    Most companies don't even get half the rave over revolutionary creations that Apple does before the shit's even revolutionary.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  47. Best Interface for the "iPad" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm the best interface Apple could put in the "iPad" would be the standard MacOS X one, with a nice gesture to bring up the On screen keyboard. The best things for the "App" devs would be OSX as well. best for the consumer(best==most choice) is again OSX.

  48. Keyboard speed, tested by joh · · Score: 1

    Here's an interesting speed comparison of: A full-size QWERTY keyboard, the Apple iPhone 3G’s software QWERTY keyboard (2009), the Palm Treo 650’s hardware QWERTY keyboard (2004), pen and paper, the Apple Newton MessagePad 2100’s handwriting recognition (1997), and the Palm Vx’s Graffiti (1999).

    The full-size keyboard was fastest, the iPhone keyboard (in portrait orientation) was second (about one third slower), than came the rest (order as above). At least in this test the iPhone keyboard was faster than both the Palm Treo hardware keyboard *and* pen and paper.

    http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2010/01/18/input.php

    1. Re:Keyboard speed, tested by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Pretty interesting comparison. It's also pretty close to being in-line with what I'd expect.

      I'd bet that the iPhone does well primarily because of its autocorrection. Mistakes are always going to slow you down, assuming you bother to correct them.

  49. To short the stock or not... by Gavin+Scott · · Score: 1

    So here we are a week in advance of the announcement, and I'm starting to wish I had the guts to short Apple's stock based on the way all the rumors are starting to converge.

    The device Apple can sell zillions of will be one that professionals and students will want to have with them every moment of every day. It will *not* be some sort of family shared assistant, since this is an incredibly hard market to sell to. In fact it's a market that doesn't actually exist as quite a few people have discovered over the years (can you say "Audrey"?). Apple has to do better than, say, Segway in terms of having a cool product *and* actually selling them to someone.

    I just don't see a "big iPhone" as appealing to enough people for Apple to make any profit on it. It's probably going to be expensive and maybe will require another $100/month to AT&T on top of the iPhone you have now? A very clever route would have been if the slate would tether to your existing iPhone (via bluetooth perhaps) and AT&T would allow unlimited data tethering with the device.

    Today's iPhone is the worst smartphone ever invented except for all other smartphones that have ever been invented. It's just not that revolutionary, and will not be as effective when scaled up to a non-pocket-sized device.

    The iSlate probably won't run Windows apps and it probably won't run MacOS desktop apps. Well, guess what, after their phone, people are going to want something that runs standard commercial desktop applications if they are going to carry another physical device around. Or at least something that provides all the functionality and connectivity to their existing systems, and that's asking an awful lot out of the AppStore I think.

    Could make a cool VNC/Remote Desktop client, but again that's not a market that will sell millions.

    If you think back to the original 128KB Mac, it was basically an antique iPhone. A sealed proprietary box that only ran software from Apple and a few blessed 3rd party developers. Steve Jobs has a long history of thinking he knows everything the users need and how they're going to like doing everything only the way he imagines them being used. This sort of logic works ok for a phone, but for a general purpose computer I think it will cause them problems.

    Apple's stock is at about $208 now. I predict that in 6-9 months it will be lower than this. We'll see whether I have to eat my words or not.

    Or maybe I'll be lining up with everyone else to pre-order one on Wednesday. Who knows.

    But I sure hope they have something more to show than a big iPhone with scaled up iPhone apps. I don't need another AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!! moment in technology marketing (the way General Magic, Transmeta, and a few other were) where it's instantly obvious that the entire thing is going to be a complete disaster.

    G.

  50. The New Amiga will beat the IsLate hands down by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    Indeed. Speculation on future UIs can be interesting, but what has that got to do with any potential Apple product? There are plenty of companies who have and are making tablets (actually ones, not vaporware like the istale).

    I might as well make up a long list of what I'd like to see in a computer, and then post a story saying "The New Amiga Must Be Like This".

    If this was an Apple site, I could understand, but otherwise, why not keep it generic? Oh wait, there's my answer - this is an Apple site. (There are only three stories mentioning the Iphone today! The joke about the Daily Iphone story is obviously old hat...)

  51. IsLate == DNF by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    I agree entirely - the Apple IsLate is the new Duke Nukem Forever.

    To be honest I just wish Slashot would get it over with, rename to Appledot. I wouldn't complain about this coverage on an Apple site, it's the pretence that this is still a general geek site (or indeed, one geared towards open source - remember those days?) that's misleading.

    1. Re:IsLate == DNF by aftk2 · · Score: 1

      How can a product that has NOT EVEN BEEN ANNOUNCED be late? And furthermore, how can it be equivalent to the gold standard of lateness that is DNF?

      For someone who hates this coverage so much, you're posting a lot on this story.

      --
      concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
  52. Now Announcing: The iBrick by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    It's true enough that a tablet PC that's essentially just a scaled up iPhone would be pretty cool.

    Would it though? I mean, for the last ten years people mocked phones that were "huge", even if they were only a few years old. Yet we're now supposed to praise an increase in size, that's like a throwback to the 80s?

    But indeed, as you say, cost is the point. I can see tablets working if they were cheap, but anything running a phone OS, at the price of a laptop, isn't going to compete as a computer. Like the current tablets (e.g., Fujitsu Flepia), it'll be a niche product for people who want an expensive e-book reader that does colour and video.

    I guess it'd appeal to a narrow band of Apple nerds; even fewer than bought into the Macbook Air.

    Heh, I remember that (most people don't). Tonnes of hype, because it was 1mm smaller than the smallest laptop (as if anyone cared). Then along came netbooks, much smaller at a tenth of the price, and no one mentioned the Air again.

    I can't help but think they're cleverer than that. Whatever is coming is going to have to be bigger (in the sense of appealing to the populace rather than a tiny subset of it) than a mere tablet even if they make it super snazzy.

    They're cleverer in their marketing. I mean, they released an expensive phone that didn't even have basic features like 3G, Java, MMS, copy/paste, nor did it have smartphone features like multitasking or running any apps from a 3rd party, and it followed years after when most other bog standard phones could already run apps and access the Internet. But it still got hyped endlessly - and does to this day - with people convinced that it sparked some kind of revolution. Apple's total market share in phones today is just a few percent, yet you have people - even on geek forums like Slashdot (indeed, especially here) - who seriously believe that Apple are the market leader, with only Google for competition.

    We have Iphone stories at least once a day. Even if it's bog standard and nothing special, look forward to having daily istale stories too.

  53. Time to ditch the Mac? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    I agree with TFA that the iPhone OS is the best choice of OS for Apple. Not because it is the best possible OS for a tablet, but because it is a great OS that people like. It has an interface that keeps people buying apps and songs and whatnot

    Well indeed, this says it all - it's a "good OS" that let's people buy apps and songs. I do find it interesting that a computer sized and priced device will still be running their phone OS, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they ditch the Mac altogether within the next 5 years.

    They've previously shown they have no attachment to particular to technology when they realise it's no good - classic MacOS, PowerPC, so why not OS X too? Even "Mac" itself is just a trademark for what's basically an Apple PC these days. Since they've gone without the trademark for the Ipod, Iphone, and now the Islate, they may well just let it go altogether.

    It seems Apple are better off making money from music and gadgets, not computers. Personally though, I do want to see a world where we still have general computers, in the form of small devices too (netbooks, and phones that aren't locked down like Apple's).

  54. We'll see, John Connor. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "At any rate, bookmark this post. You may want to come back later and compare it to what actually happened... ;)"

    Is Skynet involved?

  55. Size too much for n00bs... by Ostracus · · Score: 1

    "It never ceases to amaze me how some people think that things like files
    and folders are too confusing for the novice."

    It's not hierarchy that people don't understand. It's that files and folders don't scale well especially in this era of Terabyte drives. It takes an amount of disciple most don't want to invest to make the metaphor work at that level.

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
  56. it's all about the touch screen by johncandale · · Score: 0, Redundant

    yes. exactly. It's not so much about a better UI, that's just a crutch, a work around. Tablet sensors on the market today just are not fast or accurate enough, well ok, I don't know about those $5000 ones for artists. Writing with your hand on a tablet is like using a fat crayon, and in till it can interpret the center of my finger as a fine line with no input lag, it's a problem. On the silly drawing program on my tablet I can run 2 fingers across the screen and it takes half a second for the paint lines on the screen to catch up and draw it. Not just hand writing, but hand writing requisition. I've seen improvements with pressure sensoring and improvements with finger centering, but it's not good enough.

  57. If only there was some kind of rating system... by PMBjornerud · · Score: 1

    Screw talking about some hypothetical gadget - what we should really be discussing is the huge number of people who are being forced to read and comment on articles they don't want to read. Why isn't the government doing something about this?!!

    And you are complaining about being forced to read his comment you didn't want to read?

    I hereby make a formal complaint of being forced to read complaints about about being forced to read complaints about being forced to read stories.

    If only someone could implement a web site where people could rate stories and comments so we were not forced to read all of them...

    PS: I loved reading your comments. Both of them.

    --
    I lost my sig.
    1. Re:If only there was some kind of rating system... by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      I wanted to reply, but I didn't read your comment because nobody forced me to. Was it a good one? Did it involve cheese?

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  58. user interface consistency is a means not an end by Mr.+Punch · · Score: 1

    Consistency in user interface isn't an end unto itself. Consistency is a means to making the UI easier for users to understand.

    I develop software that runs on Windows. I follow Microsoft's conventions for button size and placement because the majority of our users are accustomed to those conventions. When I give them a button that looks familiar and does in my application what it does in others, I'm able to tap into previous Windows experience to make my software easier to use.

    I'm at best an average user interface designer. I need things like this to cheat and make a more usable product.

    Apple has UI designers that are significantly better than that. Many third party iPhone application developers are also extremely good. A good enough UI designer can come up with an interface that is both intuitive and perfectly suited to the task at hand without looking like the other UIs out there.

    The fact that they aren't being consistent isn't bad if the end result is simple to use for both beginning and experienced developers.