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Electromagnetic Pulse Gun To Help In Police Chases

adeelarshad82 writes "In an attempt to put an end to dangerous, high-speed police chases, scientists at Eureka Aerospace have developed an electromagnetic pulse gun called the High Power Electromagnetic System, or HPEMS. It develops a high-intensity directed pulse of electricity designed to disable a car's microprocessor system, shutting down all of its systems. Right now the prototype seen in a video fills an entire lab, but they have plans to shrink its size to hand-held proportions. Some form of this is already featured in OnStar-equipped vehicles though the electromagnetic signal used to disable the vehicle is beamed via satellite, and doesn't cripple the in-car computer, but rather puts it into a mode that allows police to easily catch and then stop the fleeing criminal."

471 comments

  1. help in police chases? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 5, Funny

    You bet - I'll be able to disable cop cars chasing me.

    I mean, _criminals_ will. Ahem.

    1. Re:help in police chases? by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      Outlaw electromagnetic radiation and then only criminals will have EMR?

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    2. Re:help in police chases? by iammani · · Score: 1

      Or cops!

    3. Re:help in police chases? by Kratisto · · Score: 1

      Does the metal of the car body have no effect on the transmission of the signal? It seems like there would be a Faraday cage effect going on...

      Speaking of which, time to build a Faraday cage around my car's microprocessor components.

      --
      Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
    4. Re:help in police chases? by skine · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Metal car body?

      What is this, the 1960's?

    5. Re:help in police chases? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      Good, that'll put an end to assholes taking cell phones into the movies and on airplanes.

    6. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Agreed. My car is made more from epoxy then metal.

    7. Re:help in police chases? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good, that'll put an end to assholes taking cell phones into the movies and on airplanes.

      And assholes with pacemakers.

    8. Re:help in police chases? by adolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Kinda. Ever use a handheld cell phone in a car? Chances are you have, and that it worked fine -- the signal goes right through the windows.

      Same with this concept. Sure, the car's fidgety electronic bits are wrapped securely inside of grounded aluminum boxes, gasketed and/or taped to keep out all manner of pollutants and/or RFI. But connected to these boxes are hundreds of feet of unshielded, untwisted wire, all of which will act as an antenna. Meanwhile, the car's body will tend to reflect any RF that makes it inside, so with all of the weird angles in use it's just an eventuality before some of it finds its way into a bundle of wires somewhere.

      So, it's obvious and foregone that it's possible to get some amount of RF into a car's electronics.

      The question is: How much does it take to make the car stop working? Since the current system apparently uses a room full of gear, I'd say the answer is "lots."

    9. Re:help in police chases? by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      One three rear mounted 4" black powder cannon, electrically fire, filled with chain, glass, dirty needles and crack vials will work nicely. You can use an Arduino to run the trunk opening and canon lift.

      Front mounted? 6" X 3

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    10. Re:help in police chases? by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      Well, it's natural selection . . . :P

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    11. Re:help in police chases? by MarkvW · · Score: 1

      Unless their pacemakers are powered by nanomotors, that is!

    12. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fortunately people like you will go down with the same plane, so the urge to shut down cell phones on airplanes should be a self-regulating phenomenon.

    13. Re:help in police chases? by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Funny

      Good, that'll put an end to assholes taking cell phones into the movies and on airplanes.

      And assholes with pacemakers.

      Pacemakers are usually inserted into the chest cavity.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    14. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Speaking as the owner of a 1983 Mercedes 300D turbo diesel, I would love to see the cop's face if they were to ever use such a thing on my car. You see, it has mechanical fuel injection and diesel doesn't rely on a spark so EMP will be useless in killing anything except my stereo. If the car is already running, you can remove the battery and have a completely dead alternator and it'll still run. I figured out a while back that in the event of a nuclear holocaust, I will be one of a handful of people with a running car... If I can get a manual transmission in it then I could even start it. Oh, and it weighs more than the cars today so the odds of running me off the road drop considerably as well...and it's built like a tank(I've been hit by 2 SUVs and have 1 spot of paint rubbed off and a dent shallower than a fingernail).

      Is this the new preferred car for gangstas?

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    15. Re:help in police chases? by Ogi_UnixNut · · Score: 4, Informative

      As far as I know, most car bodies are still metal, because there is nothing else as good for protecting occupants in a crash. Yes, most body panels of cars nowadays are fibreglass, etc... but I assure you, the firewall, base body and engine compartment is most likely still metal.

      If the EMP Gun is a worry for you, you could always layer an extra grounded wire mesh around your engine to reduce it's effect, or as an old school solution, have a mechanical ignition setup for redundancy. It wouldn't give you the same performance etc... from the engine, but it's better than not having a functioning engine at that point in time.

    16. Re:help in police chases? by KudyardRipling · · Score: 0

      It is only a matter of time before governments will start figuring out these things. Those vehicles that cannot be remotely disabled via radio packet or EMP gun, the legislature can pass a statute or the governor may order the commissioner of the motor vehicle department to no longer issue registrations or renewals under the rubric of carbon control. Forget about the courts, it's a privilege to own certain types of property, as well as operate.

      --
      Submission as evidence constitutes plaintiff and/or prosecutorial misconduct.
    17. Re:help in police chases? by timmarhy · · Score: 1

      just because criminals might get hold of something it's not a valid arguement for banning something. criminals have guns to, should we take those off cops? then you'll have cops without guns and crooks with them.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    18. Re:help in police chases? by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Or you could just mount a huge subwoofer in the back of your van and blast them with vibes until their car falls apart.

    19. Re:help in police chases? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would also be interested to know whether it is "stop working permanently" or "glitch and hang until power cycled" or "you'll need to pop the battery out, do some grounding voodoo, and generally futz around; but the circuitry is not permanently damaged".

      I would hope, from the perspective of safety-conscious design, that any complex electronic systems would have a watchdog system built in, so that any sneaky software bug or cosmic-rays-corrupting-the-ram incidents would only kick the system into a pathological state for a few moments before it was rebooted from ROM and back up and running. If that is in fact the case, you would pretty much need to kill the circuitry in order to stop the vehicle(I'm sure that, for particular designs, there would be clever voltage excursion attacks that could hang the system, watchdog and all, without killing it; but that is the sort of thing you do in your hacker lab, not with an EMP pulse). If you need to kill the circuitry then we are talking about some serious power and, very likely, substantial damage to any other electronics in the car, or in the vicinity. It'll probably be very popular to "accidentally" hit those annoying civilians who insist on videotaping police misconduct with such a device.

      If car engines can be taken offline with a pulse that simply glitches, rather than destroying, the electronics, that raises the unpleasant possibility that a software or hardware bug could do the same thing, or that a driver, once hit, could just toggle the ignition, assuming that there is still a physical switch somewhere in the loop, to bring the car back into a good state.

    20. Re:help in police chases? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      A Faraday cage isn't perfect protection against EM, just static electric fields. The car is also not grounded, which doesn't help. Plus there are likely to be a good number of holes in the metal big enough to allow damaging frequencies to pass through.

    21. Re:help in police chases? by aaandre · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is not the place to brag about your fetish.

    22. Re:help in police chases? by drsmithy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Speaking as the owner of a 1983 Mercedes 300D turbo diesel [...]

      Maybe you missed the part where this is there to prevent _high speed_ chases ? ;)

    23. Re:help in police chases? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Is this the new preferred car for gangstas?

      I doubt it. Gangsters will opt for better fuel economy, but just without the billowing black diesel smoke. They'll probably get a Hummer or something.

    24. Re:help in police chases? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Reminds me of my uncle, who was inside a large car crash with at least a dozen cars bumping in each other because of ice on the road.
      Most cars had huge destruction of the crumple zones. You know what he had to do to fix his car? As old Mercedes SL.

      Re-paint the bumpers.

      You know, I can only take cars seriously, that I can scratch along walls, run into fire hydrants with, etc, without having any trouble.
      I hate, that nearly every car has paint, that falls off as soon as you stare at it. And that the crumple zones don’t just spring back. Like they would, if they were made of memory metal. (Imagine that all you would have to do to fix the dents, would be, to drive trough a hot car wash!)

      They are no cars. They are jokes. Falling into pieces when you touch them.
      For a machine that is made to move at over 100 mph, that is ridiculous.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    25. Re:help in police chases? by BitterOak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Outlaw electromagnetic radiation and then only criminals will have EMR?

      Yep. These things will be especially popular with rapists, chasing female drivers down highways late at night.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    26. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must have missed that "turbo" part. And for the record, "high speed" is >80mph. BFD, my old Ford Fiesta could do that.

    27. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cop cars? BAH! I'll be using this to disable the car speaker systems with absurdly loud bass with drivers who think it's appropriate to blast music near my apartment.

      It'll be like this except it'll destroy more than just their speakers :D

    28. Re:help in police chases? by Kharny · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't really understand crumple zones then....

      Either you take the hit, or the car does.

      I prefer a broken car over a broken spine personally.

      --
      Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
    29. Re:help in police chases? by Nethead · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've dealt with automobile RF from the other side, getting rid of the car's emissions. Anyone that has ever tried to deal with a HF ham radio in a car knows that getting rid of EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) can be a bitch and a half. For reference on the steps that may be needed see http://k0bg.com/

      Oh, and if you have an old Ranger pick'em'up you just as well better plan to park it if you want to hear anything besides alternator whine and spark plug noise.

      73 de w7com

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    30. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Billowing black smoke? That only happens if one doesn't keep their fuel injection tuned, spend $100 every few years and that doesn't become an issue ever. And regarding the Hummer, those will still be susceptible to the EMP as they use electronic fuel injection.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    31. Re:help in police chases? by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dear Police, when you see a smarmy guy driving an 1980s Mercedes, please note your EMP weapon wont work so you'll need a sniper from SWAT to shoot him in the face. Thanks in advance.

      Sincerely,

      The Internet

    32. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take your small little W123 and raise you a W126 with OM603, which by the way can be roll started even with automatic transmissions.

    33. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Yep, I'm looking at another 83 300TD that was in a wreck where the hood/grill was crushed in a wreck. It looks horrific but it hit a pickup truck that was equally damaged but the Benz was able to be driven home without problem. That, my friend, is a solid car. Of course the thing I really love is that assuming I don't total it, it will outlive me, my children and perhaps my grandchildren; and it's already got 250,000 miles on it, or as we say "it's barely broken in". [hint for anyone who doesn't know, this model routinely lasts 1,000,000 miles and the world record is held by the same model at over 3,000,000 miles and counting]

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    34. Re:help in police chases? by RichardJenkins · · Score: 1

      Cab you rephrase that in the form of an analogy?

    35. Re:help in police chases? by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      It will be interesting if they ever use this against someone who has a pacemaker.

      Interesting and sad at least.

    36. Re:help in police chases? by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      Imagine: you're driving a car, which from your description has the consistency of a tank. Somehow you get the thing to 100mph and you encounter a few tons of concrete.

      You stop (rather suddenly) but fortunately the next owner doesn't even have to repaint - a quick scrub will be enough to clean the mess you make inside!

      Seriously though, at 100mph hitting anything much bigger than a field mouse and you're probably fucked, but at lower speeds that little extra time that crumple zones can make a big difference.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    37. Re:help in police chases? by Nethead · · Score: 1

      My old '63 bug could too, but I must admit, the Fiesta was a zippy little car in it's day.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    38. Re:help in police chases? by wxjones · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Don't EMP me bro!

      --
      My SIG is a P226
    39. Re:help in police chases? by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        I'd love to see the government or any LE try to outlaw older cars like the GP owns. The public outcry (lots of it from rich people) and ensuing legal chaos would be memorable and quite fun to watch ;-D

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    40. Re:help in police chases? by shadowbearer · · Score: 3, Informative

        It's been a while, but IIRC the top speed of that particular model is around 145mph ;-)

        Mercedes are not known for being wimpy vehicles in the power department.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    41. Re:help in police chases? by Nethead · · Score: 0, Troll

      If the EMP Gun is a worry for you....

      Then slow the fuck down and stop driving like an teenage idiot!

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    42. Re:help in police chases? by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Expanded metal mesh (such as is still used under some ceramic floor tile installation and for some plaster applications, etc) is lightweight and inexpensive ;)

        I'm not sure how conductive the cheaper stuff is, but if you need conductive mesh, any ductile metal will serve, expanded copper mesh is available and is highly electrically conductive.

      SB
       

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    43. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      WELL played, sir!

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    44. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep it will disable the guys car and his pacemakrer. Cops can now kill two birds with one stone.

    45. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Mercedes 300D turbo diesel"

      HA, you won't be able to run away ... it's a slug.

    46. Re:help in police chases? by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      If car engines can be taken offline with a pulse that simply glitches, rather than destroying, the electronics, that raises the unpleasant possibility that a software or hardware bug could do the same thing,

        Happens all the time...

        To add to this thread, I suspect that modern car electronic/computer systems would have built-in protection against electrical surges coming from their outlying wiring or systems. Don't know for sure, have never owned a vehicle newer than 1980.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    47. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > These things will be especially popular with rapists, chasing female drivers down highways late at night.

      But how often do rapists chase female drivers down highways late at night? I doubt it's as common than cops chasing crooks down highways.

      So I hope you were being sarcastic, otherwise that sort of remark is similar to the "think of the children" stuff used to put in more restrictive laws.

      The rapists are more likely to have guns/knives and attack their victims in the car park. Way before anybody gets to the highway.

      The EMP gun might come in handy to help the cops catch the rapist - while he is driving away on the highway with the soon-to-be-raped victim.

    48. Re:help in police chases? by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe a Faraday cage has to be grounded to be effective; also, wouldn't a electromagnetic field actually make a faraday cage more effective by inducing stronger currents in the cage materials as the field changes?

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    49. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Now that makes me wonder if mine can be roll started. I remember that a lot of the old Dodge automatics can do that but hadn't considered that mine might be in that class as well. Regardless, yes, the W126 is a fine model. Someone please mod the parent up.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    50. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      "If I can get a manual transmission in it then I could even start it."

      EMP isn't going to whack your lead-acid battery, which is useful to know if you are gonna play Mad Max.
      You can start your diesel, and your alternator isn't likely to be fried. If so, hunt up another alternator and devise a mount since Mercedes parts aren't common. :)

      PS:
      The considerable number of people still running points ignition will also be mobile, and our gas engines can burn a variety of fuels.
      The (many) kickstart Harleys running points will be usable, not to mention older cars and trucks.

    51. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      See my post above regarding trains. Now if those crumple zones were made of that shock gel stuff then THAT would be cool.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    52. Re:help in police chases? by thrawn_aj · · Score: 1

      I figured out a while back that in the event of a nuclear holocaust, I will be one of a handful of people with a running car...

      You better pray that the mutations allow you to piss fuel in that case ;-)

    53. Re:help in police chases? by shadowbearer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      :-D Indeed. I met an old mechanic once about twenty years ago who used to use an AM radio to diagnose the ignition systems in the Ranger series pickups. He claimed he could tell whether it was firing correctly just by tuning to a certain band and listening. He was damned good at it, too.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    54. Re:help in police chases? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      And I can run full tilt into a yorkie and get a bruise on my shin, but if I do the same to someone my size that weighs the same as me I'll get a concussion.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    55. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Can't imagine it ending well when the brakes and power steering go at high speed, yet another great idea to keep innocent by standers safe.

    56. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Funny, the only cars that pass me are the sports cars with big engines and they still struggle. Mercedes may mean "luxury", which may also then equate to "sluggish" in your 2 brain cells, but that also means they have plenty of horsepower. I mean, when was the last time you saw a Lincoln Towncar or Cadillac with a 4 cylinder engine?

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    57. Re:help in police chases? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Do you genuinely not see the fallacy in applying a train surviving hitting a car to a car without crumple zones vs one with them? A train hitting a car is like using your hand to swat a fly out of the air. A car without crumplezones hitting another car without crumplezones is like swinging at a baseball pitched at 90mph without wearing a glove.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    58. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      I was always under the impression that EMP did something to the battery as well. If not then I guess I could nuclear-proof my voltage regulator and be livin' large when the days of Mad Max come around.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    59. Re:help in police chases? by JWSmythe · · Score: 2, Informative

          I've driven quite a few vehicles that had engine failures at speed. Steering works normally until you're down to single digit speeds. Brakes work while there's a vacuum, but even still you can stop without the vacuum assist.

          You obviously haven't driven a vehicle where the belt broke (no power steering) or it ran out of gas (no power steering or brakes).

          The last time this happened, the car overheated at 75mph (road debris blocked the radiator), so I drove most of the way to the nearest exit with the engine off. It wasn't a big deal until I had to turn at the bottom of an offramp, and didn't have power steering. And yes, it was a modern car.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    60. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the laugh. I own an 81 300SD, and would like to mention that if you beef up the turbo, install Monaco injectors, an intercooler and beef up the fuel pump these cars can actually keep up with traffic.

      However it is nice to know that silly things like a nuclear holocaust, or fuel shortages (SVO) have little effect on our cars.

    61. Re:help in police chases? by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      And generally whatever the train hit is toast. Yes, you might be safer in a heavy vehicle, but you imflict a lot more damage on whatever you hit.

    62. Re:help in police chases? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      It's been a while, but IIRC the top speed of that particular model is around 145mph ;-) Mercedes are not known for being wimpy vehicles in the power department.

      120 horsepower. Is that a lot?

    63. Re:help in police chases? by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmmm. Turning the engine off is one thing, but let's imagine a high speed chase, with instant loss of electrical power which disables the:

      • Engine control.
      • Transmission control.
      • Stability control.
      • Anti-lock braking control.
      • Electric power steering.
      • And probably a few other safety critical systems I haven't through about.

      This could end very badly with modern automobiles, and I don't think they've thought their cunning plan all the way through.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    64. Re:help in police chases? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      You will never reach that speed anywhere but the salt flats. I have a 1982 300SD which is better in every way. They realistically top out just over 100. You can upgrade them with an intercooler and then you can turn up the turbo, but you're only going to make about 200 horses at best on MY engine (which is a more highly-tuned version of yours.) I don't know who told you that you could do 145 in that car, but they lied to you.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    65. Re:help in police chases? by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Like I said, it's been a while. But the turbocharged models peaked around 180hp. For lux cars of that class back then it wasn't bad.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    66. Re:help in police chases? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Back in my day, we had a required course in high school, called "Defensive Driving". We were taught that the best thing is not to hit anything. If you MUST hit something, his something smaller, softer, and less substantial.

      Today? Idiot consumers expect to survive a collision with a nuclear warhead.

      There is something wrong with a world where the cars are DESIGNED to run into things.

      Charles Darwin is puzzled by this as well. He wonders why we wish to preserve the genetic misfits who think that running into solid bodies at speed is a good idea. We are setting ourselves up for something bad in the future.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    67. Re:help in police chases? by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 1

      Or, I don't know, two trains hitting each other?

    68. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Do you genuinely not get that they both involve the ratio of momentum and energy of each participant in the systems? The numbers may change but the physics themselves do not. Try working out some equations involving momentum/velocity with varying size objects hitting one another. Inevitably if both objects are moving at the same velocity, the larger object will not only keep moving forward but also push the smaller object backward. Why is that? Which do you think takes most of the damage?

      You see, when your car is so light that 3 supermodels can pick it up and walk it across a street, you need crumple zones because a large portion of the occupied weight will be the occupants. And a vehicle doesn't have to weigh hundreds or thousands of times more than another vehicle to survive the impact because my 6,000 lb van was travelling 60mph when it ran into a car that pulled out in front of us and it destroyed the car, we however were entirely uninjured and the van had a slightly bent bumper. I could have been doing 100mph and the results would be similar except while we may have injuries, the other driver would be dead without a doubt.

      Ahem...large car vs small car..
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02eghIfyHP0
      Even if the Mercedes in the video didn't have crumple zones, the smart car would do the same thing, can you explain why? I already have.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    69. Re:help in police chases? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Late 70's Friebird/Trans Am had a huge motor in it and was slow as hell. Big engine doesn't always equal big usable power.

      --
      Good-bye
    70. Re:help in police chases? by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      Oh, and if you have an old Ranger pick'em'up you just as well better plan to park it if you want to hear anything besides alternator whine and spark plug noise.

      Not necessary. You can hear whine through the stereo on a new Ranger too. Albeit rarely.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    71. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02eghIfyHP0

      The cars in the video have around the same ratio that my car versus a non-smart car would have. Who wins?

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    72. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Analogy was big vehicle without crumple zones vs small vehicle with or without crumple zones. Nice try though.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    73. Re:help in police chases? by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        I don't know who told you that you could do 145 in that car, but they lied to you.

        Probably. Jocks vs. chocks. Thanks.

      SB

       

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    74. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This got modded +5 Insightful? Really?
      I thought the GP's post was quite interesting and on topic.

    75. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yep, while i, i mean _criminals_ get away in my..uh..their car that has a carburator and no computer chips...

    76. Re:help in police chases? by jstoner · · Score: 1

      And assholes like me with deep brain stimulation implants. Yes, I have wires in my brain:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_brain_stimulation

      And I don't even have to be in the car. I could be beside the car, or just past the car. God help those around if I'm driving. My car might be fine (that's a good question, does this effect only the target car? How tight is the beam? Could reflections kill other cars?) but I'd likely die instantly (or be in a permanent coma, no difference to me) and my car and drooling carcass would probably drift across lanes into other cars...

      If by some miracle I were to survive such an incident, I hope the police department and manufacturer have a shitload of liability insurance, because they would need it. As a rule, I don't use my condition to abuse the legal system (though I certainly could), but I would get very litigious about that, and encourage my family to do so in my stead.

      --

      'In knowledge is power, in wisdom humility.'
    77. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      All great points though it technically also excludes things like seatbelts if you take at face value; while I don't use seatbelts a lot, I do think they have a decent use when you're the passenger and fall asleep since it's obvious that you can't prepare for a collision that you can't see coming so you might as well have some protection from the random wreck.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    78. Re:help in police chases? by LBt1st · · Score: 1

      I think the GP has a valid point. Replace "rapist" with your nutjob of choice. Imagine a guy in the bushes next to a railroad track, on a downhill road, any freeway, around a blind curve, the list goes on..

      If one of these got into the wrong hands it would be devastating.

    79. Re:help in police chases? by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      Faraday cages impedes electric fields and thus lightening transfers between positive and negative fields. EMP is burst of radiation like flipping on a lamp. Two different things.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    80. Re:help in police chases? by Captain+Chaos · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can second that, while it may not be the most pleasant driving experience, it is still possible to drive a vehicle after engine, power steering or computer failures. I luckily haven't had brakes fail, so I can't comment on that.

      My last car kept getting problems with the computer after the dealer screwed it up while working on my car. I had to have it replaced 3 times before they finally got it right. The first failure I was doing probably 70mph on the interstate when it went. I don't think it completely failed that time, since I was able to safely drive the backroads home. I had an all electronic dash though and lost all my instruments, so thankfully there was an exit just up ahead that I used, stopped to made a call to have a ride ready to go if needed, then drove it safely home. After the first replacement, I was over halfway home and doing about 55 when everything went out. I was able to safely pull over to the side of the road and stop, the brakes were fine, but the steering sucks since you get spoiled by the lack of effort needed with power steering. After that "fix", the car died as soon as I pulled out onto the road from the dealer and I was able to safely coast it up to a break in the median, do a U-turn and leave it dead at the bottom of their driveway so they could push it back into the shop.

      I also had an engine blow on the interstate while in a company van years ago and I think I probably safely made it close to a mile before stopping. I was able to safely change lanes, get to the exit ramp and get off, go across the overpass thanks to hitting the green light on the exit, turn onto a side street and pull over next to a gas station so I could call for a tow. The lane changes and turns really sucked with no power steering, but it isn't as bad when you know it is out. My dad had a belt break on an old Suburban in the middle of a right turn and he said that was quite a surprise when halfway through the turn he needed a lot more effort to turn the wheel.

    81. Re:help in police chases? by adolf · · Score: 1

      You forgot fly-by-wire steering, due any minute now on a car near you.

    82. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Big News!! Some cars don't perform well even when they claim they should.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    83. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      :-D Indeed. I met an old mechanic once about twenty years ago who used to use an AM radio to diagnose the ignition systems in the Ranger series pickups. He claimed he could tell whether it was firing correctly just by tuning to a certain band and listening. He was damned good at it, too.

      SB

      now thats the shiznit there !!

    84. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...most car bodies are still metal..."

      Right, but only so far.

      "...because there is nothing else as good for protecting occupants in a crash..."

      Wrong.

    85. Re:help in police chases? by dougisfunny · · Score: 1

      And what happens when you hit someone else with the same vehicle? Or do you only aim for little cars?

      --
      This is not the funny you're looking for.
    86. Re:help in police chases? by dougisfunny · · Score: 1

      I do everything in my power to not run into things. That doesn't mean someone driving down the road the opposite direction isn't going to be drunk/falling asleep and run into me. I'd still like to be able to survive that.

      --
      This is not the funny you're looking for.
    87. Re:help in police chases? by dougisfunny · · Score: 1

      Or someone with a pacemaker happens to be in the line of fire and hit by accident.

      --
      This is not the funny you're looking for.
    88. Re:help in police chases? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      or for that matter, it could confuse the airbag controller and punch the driver in the face

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    89. Re:help in police chases? by dougisfunny · · Score: 1

      It can still be devastating in the right hands, as collateral damage. Until more things come EM-shielded. And it wouldn't even have to be on moving vehicles, I'd imagine there are enough unshielded systems.

      Imagine what one could do in a hospital. Or an airport...wall street, police station, phone company, power station, a mall.

      --
      This is not the funny you're looking for.
    90. Re:help in police chases? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      To add to this thread, I suspect that modern car electronic/computer systems would have built-in protection against electrical surges coming from their outlying wiring or systems

      Basically impossible. The PCM needs power and that power has to come from somewhere, so even if everything else were optically isolated (hint; it isn't) you'd still have a path to get HERF into there. HERF has been demonstrated at DEFCON, where a handheld device was shown to be sufficient to cause aberrant behavior in an ordinary PC from a pretty fair distance. You can build your own automobile-stopping HERF unit from microwave oven parts.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    91. Re:help in police chases? by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      Then replace EMP with any implement of violence and hide in the basement for the rest of your life.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    92. Re:help in police chases? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      My 91 metro could too. But only once, if I drove it off a cliff.

    93. Re:help in police chases? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      In cars, we usually call it drive-by-wire, as we do with the throttle control on the GM Northstar powerplant. Steer-by-wire doesn't necessarily disable when the power is out though, if you use a well-matched motor-generator pair.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    94. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1978 Olds 88 delta. I can take out that toy Benz easily. I used to own one in highschool, I slid into snowbanks for fun at 40mph and had no damage. I could take a 25mph crash on the bumper without damage as well.

      It weighed more than a Hummer H2 with a rapper and his entire possee in it, and got 8 miles ot the gallon, but I'd rip through the pussy SUV's of today like they were tissue paper.

    95. Re:help in police chases? by tyrione · · Score: 0

      You don't really understand crumple zones then....

      Either you take the hit, or the car does.

      I prefer a broken car over a broken spine personally.

      Don't misconstrue a redistribution of force from a single point to a single point spread over a zone intentionally designed to absorb and thus crumple on impact.

      To redistribute the force of impact along a ripple spread across the tensor surface and thus be minimized to not even visibly deform the surface is a far more ideal situation than built-in pocket zones which are then replaced after impacts of even light forces. Those crumple zones sure are expensive to replace, when the auto industry should be using more elastic materials capable of spreading that force across it's surface and thus reducing it to a vector weaker than someone trying to punch the side of their car.

    96. Re:help in police chases? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I can make one in 20 minutes with spare parts laying around any community college.

      the nutjobs can easily make their own.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    97. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You fell for the DEFCON HERF demonstration too? They were actually using their TV-b-gone defcon badges to turn off various notebooks with integrated IR receivers.

    98. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Funny but the saying about people who own old Mercedes is true. You're either rich or a mechanic. I'm a mechanic. I don't even see what the deal is with the "smarmy"...it's not like I said I'm driving a Bugatti for chrissake; it's a 27 year old Mercedes. Of course, if you're jealous it's because you couldn't think of it yourself then I leave you with these...;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQRbDSwZIME http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxxPLDZnqwA

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    99. Re:help in police chases? by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Mercedes are not known for being wimpy vehicles in the power department.

      The 300D had 90kw and weighed over 1600kg. A Honda Civic of the day would have been able to outrun it. You might *just* break 100 (mph) with one (though be prepared to take several minutes getting there).

      For modern context, today's

    100. Re:help in police chases? by michaelhood · · Score: 1

      wow shut up.

      Best +5 post I've read on Slashdot in 13 years.

    101. Re:help in police chases? by michaelhood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hint, trains don't have "crumple zones" but somehow the train engineers survive and easily walk away when they hit cars. Perhaps you don't understand the concepts in physics called "momentum" and "energy"?

      You're using the analogy of a several-ton train hitting a 1-2 ton car, and talking to someone else about not understanding momentum?

    102. Re:help in police chases? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Informative

      It doesn't matter. You can encase the computer in a cage all you want, but you don't understand how this works. It does not fry the chip directly. What it does in induce a voltage (15kV and more was mentioned) in the wires attached to it. It still has to talk to the rest of the car, and those are the wires where the voltage is generated, and obviously those wires have to go through the cage.

      Having said that, I have 2 comments to make: (1) Any microwave energy that can generate 15kV per meter in a piece of wire is going to do some damage to a human body. (2) It is possible to filter the inputs of the computers with zener diodes and other such protective measures (as commonly used in CMOS chips to prevent damage from static electricity). Then this microwave stuff would cease to be an issue altogether.

    103. Re:help in police chases? by michaelhood · · Score: 1

      I was always under the impression that EMP did something to the battery as well. If not then I guess I could nuclear-proof my voltage regulator and be livin' large when the days of Mad Max come around.

      If driving an early 80s diesel Benz doesn't screamin livin' large, I don't know what does.

    104. Re:help in police chases? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Far from impossible. Quite practical in fact. CMOS circuitry, which is known to be sensitive to high voltages (such as static and other sources), has long had internal protection from high voltages on its input. If such protection circuitry were used, they could generate high voltages in the external wires until the cows come home, and it won't have a whole lot of effect. Of course the amperage still has to be low, but it would have to be for a microwave system of this sort anyway.

      In other words, it is just another case of companies dreaming of lucrative government contracts and law enforcement spending boatloads of money, trying to get yet another edge, which (yet again) turns out to be ridiculously easy to defeat.

    105. Re:help in police chases? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Um, since many "high-speed chases" occur at night, one of the biggest problems would likely be the instant shutoff of the headlights. Can you say "high speed crash"? Sure. I knew you could.

      Really... the solution to most high-speed chases has been known for a long time, and that is: tell the police to fucking stop doing it.

      The vast majority of crimes that lead to these high-speed chases did not endanger lives in the first place... until, of course, the police started the chase. THEN they did. But it is usually just not necessary: the police have access to radios, helicopters, etc. to radio ahead and run these people down. It just takes longer.

    106. Re:help in police chases? by PaladinAlpha · · Score: 1

      That's not even remotely relevant. A pig has the same ratio to a (say) small dog as your car would to your average modern sedan, yet the pig and dog would both likely survive even a relatively fast collision. It's mass multiplied by velocity, and yes, if you hit something of any weight, you're dead. True, you will probably take a lot of people with you because of your steel deathtrap, but it won't do a thing to keep your spine from absorbing the impact, which has to go somewhere.

    107. Re:help in police chases? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Actuslly, a faraday cage IS effective against EM... as long as everything is within the cage. But that's not the case here: the high voltages are generated in the car's wiring, which is all outside the cage, but must pass through it.

    108. Re:help in police chases? by PaladinAlpha · · Score: 1

      The difference between "large vehicle" and "train" is rather like the difference between "fire" and "hydrogen bomb" as far as road collisions go.

    109. Re:help in police chases? by moortak · · Score: 1

      Safety critical systems in cars tend to have direct mechanical connection fallbacks, even if they suck.

      --
      Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
    110. Re:help in police chases? by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 1

      >

      Oh, and if you have an old Ranger pick'em'up you just as well better plan to park it if you want to hear anything besides alternator whine and spark plug noise.

      How old? I have a '95 Ranger and have no problems with my 2 meter gear. Never tried any HF, though.

      KJ6BSO

      --
      This ain't rocket surgery.
    111. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the EMP Gun is a worry for you, you could always layer an extra grounded wire mesh around your engine to reduce it's effect,

      That would likely be unhelpful, as the ECU (i.e. computer) in most vehicles is actually located in the passenger compartment, either behind the central column of the dash or below one of the forward foot wells--usually the passenger side. If the ECU is rendered inoperative, the engine simply stops running.

      Unfortunately, the SRS control computer is also vulnerable to EMP, and I wonder if this device could potentially cause airbag deployment as it takes out the electronic systems. I hope they test thoroughly...

    112. Re:help in police chases? by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      aaaahh but he could leave them in a cloud of smoke and disappear...

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    113. Re:help in police chases? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You tell a man to shut up over common knowledge?

      Given by how poorly your sentence was constructed, I'll assume you're not even old enough to have taken a basic small engines class in high school.

      You be quiet, as intelligent men are having rational discourse.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    114. Re:help in police chases? by supernova_hq · · Score: 3, Informative

      I guarantee that even if you ARE awake and a car comes flying out of nowheres you will NOT have that seatbelt even half-way on before it's too late. Don't believe me? Ask a friend/family member to randomly yell out "seatbelt" sometime in the next week while driving with them and see how long it takes to get that seatbelt on from a non-prepared state (not sitting there holding the belt). More than 2 seconds and you were too slow.

    115. Re:help in police chases? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "EMP isn't going to whack your lead-acid battery"

      EMPs affect ALL NON-HARDENED Electrical system components. This includes batteries, where the sudden voltage spike will likely fry the cell junctions.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    116. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate, that nearly every car has paint, that falls off as soon as you stare at it.

      Not to mention the ridiculous (revenue-generating) practice of putting a mere thin paint skin on bumpers made internally of some kind of yellow foam shit.

      I once barely touched a van's bumper while backing up. I had a metal tube back bumper. The total damage consisted of about an inch-long split in the other guy's paint film. I'd have ignored it myself and gotten a $7 tube of touch-up paint. But idiot child said his few-years-old van was cherry and he intended to keep it that way.

      So I agreed to just pay for the repair instead of going through insurance. He guessed it would be about $50 to $100. I guessed $500.

      Sure enough, instea of just a touch-up (the damned scratch was nearly on the underside of his bumper), nothing would do but to remove the entire bumper, get the original foam-and=paint-skin outer part off and completely install a new outer shell. Cost? $495.

      Bastards.

    117. Re:help in police chases? by kdemetter · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it's possible to create a countermeasure for this EMP device.
      As with all weapons , there is usually a market for defenses against it.

      A mirror like effect would be nice.

    118. Re:help in police chases? by Nethead · · Score: 1

      It's an '89 with almost 400k miles on it. I did do a QSO on 20 with a JA ham driving down the road one contest weekend, but he was a big stick. I had a FT-857 with an ATAS-120 mounted on the work box. But most of the time it's crap on SSB while the engine is running. No problems with FM for D-Star though.

      73

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    119. Re:help in police chases? by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      Fibre optics for communication between nodes and independent power supplies with independent batteries.

      Or instead of batteries, use the engine to move a liquid around the car to power localized and insulated turbine generators.

      Slightly overkill, but not entirely impossible

    120. Re:help in police chases? by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      Mine sounds stupid now that I'm not besotted with good scotch.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    121. Re:help in police chases? by ikedasquid · · Score: 1

      All have watchdog timers on exceedingly short reset schedules AND the microcontrollers never load the program out of ROM...literally the only memory for the ECU is the registers. Controlling ignition advance and fuel duration is so basic it can be done on even the oldest versions of PIC and ATmel controllers. Put another way, if your car has a distributor and uses batch fuel injection...a 2 servo controller is no more complicated. I think the simplicity of these engine control systems is what has kept this from already being common.

    122. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whooosh

    123. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alternatively you could convince Dick Cheney that Mr. Smarmy is his friend, thereby effecting the same result.

    124. Re:help in police chases? by feufeu · · Score: 1

      They are no cars. They are jokes. Falling into pieces when you touch them. For a machine that is made to move at over 100 mph, that is ridiculous.

      You'd better stay away from ultralight planes then. Those move almost twice as fast, weigh not much more than the four wheels of a Hummer plus it's driver and are certainly not as ruggedized as the proverbial '83 Mercedes Diesel.

      Then, you wouldn't drive them on a crowded highway, that's for sure...

      If this discussion goes on like this we'll be discussing cake recipes to be baked in your dishwasher in 25 posts from now or soemthing as closely related to the original subject. It's probably why i still read Slashdot.

    125. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Falling into pieces when you touch them.
      For a machine that is made to move at over 100 mph, that is ridiculous.

      I had a crash at 100 mph, and got out without a scratch so here's my question : walk out of a recent destroyed car or repaint the bumpers of you father's 1980 car after his death ?

    126. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not true, OM617A can make more power than 200horses, it has been done with few cars.
      Just need custom pump, custom turbo, custom manifolds and some head job then you get over 300hp.
      http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/mb-300sd-oldtimer-t-996.html
      http://www.kolumbus.fi/valtonen.motorsport/ - This thing made 400hp

    127. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "You know, I can only take cars seriously, that I can scratch along walls, run into fire hydrants with, etc, without having any trouble."

      Wouldn't it just be better in the long run if you learned how to drive?

    128. Re:help in police chases? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "wow shut up" to a decent post modded +5 Insightful. Idiocracy has come to Slashdot.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    129. Re:help in police chases? by ZosX · · Score: 1

      120hp may not sound like a lot, but coming from a diesel you will also have a MASSIVE amount of torque. 150 is probably totally doable in a 300D turbo. The biggest problem with earlier diesels was emissions (think black smoke belching) and engine response. They tend to rev up a lot slower than gasoline engines. Audi has been racing diesels in the le manns so clearly they are viable for even racing.

    130. Re:help in police chases? by c · · Score: 1

      >>> Good, that'll put an end to assholes taking cell phones
      >>> into the movies and on airplanes.

      >> And assholes with pacemakers.

      > Pacemakers are usually inserted into the chest cavity.

      If a pacemaker can keep one part of the body regular...

      c.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    131. Re:help in police chases? by arbitraryaardvark · · Score: 1

      cannonical: http://xkcd.com/322/

    132. Re:help in police chases? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you want to play GTA in real life. I recommend a Toyota Hilux/Pickup or Land Rover Defender, with bull bars, skid plates and an external roll cage. That's about as close as you're going to get.

      http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=296206&stc=1&d=1233860133

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    133. Re:help in police chases? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You must have missed that "turbo" part.

      Well you missed the "diesel" bit.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    134. Re:help in police chases? by ZosX · · Score: 1

      Ever try to parallel park a car with no power steering? It sure isn't easy. Once you get over 5-10 mph its not that hard though just takes a heavy hand. Cars didn't have power steering till what? the 40s? 50s? I once saw this girl park an old 50s dodge with no power steering for some reason. Didn't look like fun. The worst time was when my old delta 88 ran out of gas going down a hill and I pumped the breaks a couple of times too many and pretty much was standing on them at the bottom and that heavy boat still didn't want to stop. I really can't imagine them using drive-by-wire in steering. You always need a mechanical fallback somewhere. Even large planes have been landed (amazingly) with no hydraulics. Getting away from that for someting like driving a car seems a bit pointless. I'm a big fan of reliable, mechanically simple and uncomplicated cars.

    135. Re:help in police chases? by ErkDemon · · Score: 1

      Also the police helicopters.

    136. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you missed the part where this is there to prevent _high speed_ chases ?

      Just like National Security Letters were only there to prevent terrorism, right? Just like tasers were only there to incapacitate dangerous suspects, not to be used as cattle prods on people who are merely insufficiently cooperative.

      Law enforcement will use any tool they get their hands on any way they can think of to accomplish any of their goals. How could it be otherwise?

    137. Re:help in police chases? by ZosX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its really the deceleration. If you watch that you will notice that the smart has basically almost no crumple zones and just stops nearly immediately while the S-class is at that point still moving forward, basically pushing the smart car backwards. Mass is certainly one part of the equation as well as velocity, but also deceleration and keeping the cabin from crumpling are much bigger factors. I would say that the s-class is probably very survivable and the smart occupants would be pretty hurt, but alive. F-1 racers have special seats now that try to slow down impacts. I don't think it will totally save your life, but it does help a significant amount. (I think F-1 drivers are crazy anyways) Look up the chinese videos on youtube of the truck crash test where the bed just destroys the cab. If we start buying up chinese made cars it will be a disaster. Trust me.

    138. Re:help in police chases? by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      It is not hard to protect a processor from this kind of radiation coming from IO or power lines.
      It is expensive though. Which is why there is almost no protection in a regular car. There just isnt a motivation for adding the circuitry.

      For instance you could use "intrinsically safe" power supplies and io barriers. This has the effect of guaranteeing that no nasty voltage or current make it to the IO or the other way around. Used extensively when doing control systems in areas with flammable gases for instance.

      So, you could harden your car, but why would you?

    139. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but that is the sort of thing you do in your hacker lab, not with an EMP pulse

      Brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.

      Electro-Magnetic Pulse pulse?

    140. Re:help in police chases? by mpe · · Score: 1

      It is only a matter of time before governments will start figuring out these things. Those vehicles that cannot be remotely disabled via radio packet or EMP gun, the legislature can pass a statute or the governor may order the commissioner of the motor vehicle department to no longer issue registrations or renewals under the rubric of carbon control.

      Or maybe they get confiscated and converted into police cars...

    141. Re:help in police chases? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      A Faraday cage doesn't have to be grounded, depending on the application, but it prevents charge from building up on the cage. You're right, not being grounded probably wouldn't have much effect on the shielding against external EM.

      A Faraday cage only cancels static electric fields. An EM field is not static, and it also has a magnetic component. A Faraday cage can shield against EM to some extent, but that shielding is most effective at a particular frequency (depending on design), is more effective when you use much more metal, and isn't ever perfect. Basically, the charges in the metal of the cage can't rearrange themselves instantly to cancel a changing field (the induced current can't be infinite).

      To give you an example, before the use of active shielding, a typical hospital MRI scanner would be installed inside a room with tonnes of iron shielding. That's to shield against a narrow band signal. A wide band EMP designed to actually do damage should have no problem going through a bit of sheet metal in a car.

    142. Re:help in police chases? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Faraday cages are not completely effective against EM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

    143. Re:help in police chases? by Kidbro · · Score: 1

      Then I suggest you take your 1983 Mercedes 300D turbo diesel and chicken race that train. In the unlikely event that you live, you may at least understand why (sane) car manufacturers don't consider "build the heaviest vehicle" the wisest crash safety strategy - something that, in fact, often involves thinking about two parties.

    144. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone that has ever tried to deal with a HF ham radio in a car knows that getting rid of EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) can be a bitch and a half.

      I have to ask, why were you using a petrol vehicle? Diesel engines are "quieter" in that sense dur to lack of spark and HT circuit.

    145. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find the attacking of the grandparent hilarious but I'm not sure everyone is finding that is so annoying about him.

    146. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Also, "considerable number of people still running points ignition"!?!?! Where do you live that you see anybody using simple points? I guess most of them are likely old Volkswagen Beetle owners but I'm not certain that most of them haven't upgraded their systems as well.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    147. Re:help in police chases? by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You speak like a fag....

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    148. Re:help in police chases? by archshade · · Score: 1

      You could electrically isolate the control circuitry from the rest of the car. LEDs and phototransistors can be used to comunicate with the controller. I know this system is used to isolate large power devices from there controller.

      --
      Most Damage is done by people who are AWAKE
    149. Re:help in police chases? by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          Your stories remind me of my first long drive. I was 16 or 17, on I-75, somewhere between nowhere, and nowhere in Georgia.

          I was cruising along at 65mph, and suddenly the engine stopped. I tossed it in neutral, and tried to figure out what to do quick. It wouldn't restart, so now my options are down to how far can I get without an engine.

          There was an exit very close by, so I did perfectly legal lane changes, made the ramp (uphill, unfortunately), rolled the stop sign at the top, and into the gas station across the intersection. It was totally dumb luck that it had the inertia to make it there. I called home, told them the car broke, and then asked the shop for help. They looked it over, and it turned out the fuel filter was plugged up. $10 and 20 minutes later, I was on my way home. They took pity on me, since I was obviously a long way from home with not much money.

          Still, with not too much experience driving, and being very young, it was easy to do.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    150. Re:help in police chases? by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          Cars with power steering are inherently harder to steer when the power steering fails. It's just the design of it. You're expected to have the advantage of the hydraulic pump to assist. But ya, you can still do it. I was talking to a friend of the neighbor. His truck (late 90's Chevy Silverado) lost it's power steering almost a year ago. He's still driving it like that, because he's a kid and can't afford to get it fixed. Me, I like my creature comforts, including air conditioning and power steering. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    151. Re:help in police chases? by cynyr · · Score: 1

      VW is also using a very similar engine in the Dekar rally. 9000KM over the desert (this year in Argentina and Chile) Those cars are doing 120KM avg speed across a 600KM stage, they top out at 180Kph or so... So i'm betting that it's not an issue with diesel engines anymore.

      http://www.dakar.com/

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    152. Re:help in police chases? by Captain+Chaos · · Score: 1

      I haven't parallel parked a car with no power steering, but I did get to drive an aunt's old Chevette with manual steering around their huge driveway before I was old enough to drive. I didn't have the strength I do now, but I remember vowing then that when I got my license I would never want a car without power steering. I was puzzled as to why she would put up with driving that when he got to drive an anniversary model Corvette and custom conversion van.

      "I'm a big fan of reliable, mechanically simple and uncomplicated cars."

      Same here, while all the bells and whistles may seem nice, it is just more to go wrong and also makes repairs more expensive and harder to perform. I had thought about taking classes on auto repair just to be able to save money and make sure I wasn't being swindled by some crooked mechanic. With everything being so complicated now and getting worse, I figure it wouldn't be a very good use of my time or money since I'd need to keep sinking more in to stay up to date and having all the necessary tools would cost quite a bit also.

    153. Re:help in police chases? by Nethead · · Score: 1

      I'm in the US. You can't get a light pickup in diesel here. And yes, it pisses me off.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    154. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Charles Darwin is puzzled by this as well. He wonders why we wish to preserve the genetic misfits who think that running into solid bodies at speed is a good idea. We are setting ourselves up for something bad in the future."

      Err, no, he said rather the opposite; that our tendency to take care of the less fit members of our species was a remarkable and laudable trait.

      Take your social darwinism and shove it.

    155. Re:help in police chases? by __aauakr6947 · · Score: 1

      I reached an odometer reading of 125mph years ago in an older not-so-special-otherwise Mercedes 250 SL on a straight stretch of Massachusetts highway - for about 5 seconds before the shaking scared the hell out of me. Adrenaline lasted for 60 miles more at the speed limit.

    156. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did yours come with that great Mercedes alarm system that senses remote danger and triggers itself so you get to drive around with a honking horn and flashing lights looking like a total numbskull?

      I loved that feature on my Mom's 300.

    157. Re:help in police chases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not under Obamacare.

    158. Re:help in police chases? by emilper · · Score: 1

      outlaw older cars like the GP owns

      "cash for clunkers"

    159. Re:help in police chases? by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Optics.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    160. Re:help in police chases? by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Optical interconnect.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    161. Re:help in police chases? by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      If the EMP was particularly stout it _might_ pop the diodes in your alternator, leaving your battery to drain. It may also burn out the movements in your dashboard gauges and any light bulb filaments, since they're fairly fragile coils of tiny wire. Other than those, though, you'd be in good shape.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    162. Re:help in police chases? by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      I haven't studied up on EMP tech in a while but the main defense seemed to be Faraday cages, but I also imagine that a good ground to earth would help a lot as well since most cars don't have any form of grounding.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
  2. Before deployment by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers.

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    1. Re:Before deployment by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the lab? Perhaps. In the field? Definitely.

      Perhaps the deaths will even get a pseudo diagnosis along the same lines as "excited delirium"...

    2. Re:Before deployment by wizardforce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good point. The electrical leads used in a typical pacemaker may very well be vulnerable to such a pulse. If the EMP is powerful enough to fry the microprocessor in a car I'd bet that it is also powerful enough to at least temporarily disrupt the function of someone's pacemaker.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    3. Re:Before deployment by v1 · · Score: 1

      I wonder what it looks like on the display if a pacemaker crashes?

      blue screen of death?

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    4. Re:Before deployment by camperdave · · Score: 2, Funny

      I wonder what it looks like on the display if a pacemaker crashes?

      What kind of pacemaker has a display? Are you some sort of Teletubby or something?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    5. Re:Before deployment by westlake · · Score: 1

      I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers.

      The high speed chase has the potential to get a lot of people killed.

      Nothing can protect you from being in the wrong place at the wrong time - and being caught in the path of a high speed chase is about as wrong a place to be as it can get.

      Dozier was accused of fleeing Newark police after officers attempted to pull him over. He led them on a pursuit to Elizabeth, where he ran a red light and smashed his Jeep into the unmarked squad car of Officer Christopher Coon.
      Coon was violently thrown from the vehicle. Police on the scene initially believed he was dead.
      He spent six weeks in a coma. It took a surgeon five hours to reconstruct his face with 500 stitches. The crash left Coon with brain trauma that impairs his speech, short-term memory and ability to control his right arm and leg.
      Man who seriously injured Union officer in car chase crash gets 9 years in prison

    6. Re:Before deployment by aaandre · · Score: 1

      But then, maybe tasers can be used for revival? Letting the cops combine business with pleasure, at last!

    7. Re:Before deployment by izomiac · · Score: 1

      Depending on how bad a person's arrhythmia is, and the type of failure, probably nothing immediate, though they'd obviously want to get to a hospital ASAP. A pacemaker getting hit by this type of device would probably cause a premature contraction in the heart, and maybe burns, both of which would be dangerous. OTOH, with how ubiquitous EM fields are nowadays, especially in medical imaging, I have to wonder why pacemakers are unshielded, and some even ferromagnetic. Statistically, though, I'd estimate that people with pacemakers are more likely to be hit by a fleeing criminal than be too close to this device being used.

    8. Re:Before deployment by aukset · · Score: 3, Informative

      Its called an ECG or EKG and it involves 3 to 4 stickers placed on the limbs, attached to wires that lead to a monitor, that measure the positive electical potential of the heart as it depolarizes to cause myocardial contraction. Pacemakers have a very distrinct "rhythm" on a heart monitor that is recognizable compared to any other heart rhythm. What it would look like in the case of an EMP disruption of pacemaker activity will depend on the reason for the insertion of the pacemaker.Most likely you would get a junctional or ventricular rhythm (bradycardic QRS with disassociated P waves at 20-60 QRS per minute). Except in the case of extremely fit athletes, a ventricular rate of less than 60 is very bad news for circulatory perfusion.

      --
      No sig now
    9. Re:Before deployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      X-(

      Best impersonation I can do of a dead human face in limited ASCII with non-fixed-width characters. Sorry!

    10. Re:Before deployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The demographics prone to high speed chases are not those prone to having pacemakers. Provided that the EMP is sufficiently directed (and scaling it down is done most easily by better focus anyway) this should be a moot issue. Other electronics (laptops/PDAs/Cellphones) that would make good evidence are another matter.

    11. Re:Before deployment by digsbo · · Score: 1

      And of course it's not as though the user of the weapon can guarantee the firing effect won't harm bystanders, or for that matter, kill the perpetrator (in the unlikely event he has a pacemaker).

      And with what we've learned from the "non-lethal" taser, police are far more likely to use it liberally, essentially upping the chances of accidental deaths.

    12. Re:Before deployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And on electronic brake pedals some OEMs are thinking about introducing on the market?

      Would be nice to see what happens to a speeding car in a full highway without a functionning brake pedal.

    13. Re:Before deployment by pimproot · · Score: 1

      Some geriatric cottonhead with a pacemaker in a high speed chase with police... sounds like some good slapstick comedy.

  3. I can't wait... by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...until the criminals get hold of this. And they will. It would be too useful not to.

    I wonder if it works on helicopters also?

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:I can't wait... by scubamage · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or aeroplanes! Or scopes! Or security systems! Or police vehicles! Or traffic signals! Oh the limitless fun an aspiring criminal could have!

    2. Re:I can't wait... by nacturation · · Score: 2, Informative

      The criminals have had almost seven years to try: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/07/1559238

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    3. Re:I can't wait... by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      ...until the criminals get hold of this. And they will. It would be too useful not to.

      I wonder if it works on helicopters also?

      Maybe.
      Since a lot of police helicopters are (Vietnam era) Army surplus, there isn't much in the way of electronics to kill. You'd undoubtedly be able to knock out their fancy doo-dads, but the actual helo itself is mostly mechanical and hydralic systems.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:I can't wait... by fotbr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you kill the helicopter's radios, that is almost as good. No radios = no communications. No communications = no flying in some types of airspace. No communications = no ability to tell ground units where you are. They might have a spotlight, unless the pulse kills that too. But if you kill communications, you seriously degrade the mission capability of a police helicopter.

    5. Re:I can't wait... by cstdenis · · Score: 1

      The domain that article links to is dead. Squatter site now.

      --
      1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
    6. Re:I can't wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I remember reading an article on something similiar years ago, and some guy built a prototype that fit into a normal suit case. It was basically a pulse equal to a decent FM station all powered in one direction. It was a very short, strong pulse that disabled at car from something like 50 feet

    7. Re:I can't wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It might be possible to use a very high energy RF discharge to destroy both.

      Most "Very bright" spotlight type lights are xenon halogen, (or equivilent halogen), and are already filled with electrically excited gas. If you were to consider these bad boys as being driven elements in a power amplified antenna system, you could get them to soak in a large discharge, which would further heat the plasma inside, and cause them to rupture-- or at the very least re-radiate the EM radiation.

      Some experiments would be needed to determine if a resonant effect could be built up inside the lights, to see if they could be used to nuke the power distribution system of the helicopter directly.

      Regardless, This is a garanteed FCC violation for civilians to try. :D

    8. Re:I can't wait... by indiechild · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Criminals have no qualms about using force, why would they resort to a weapon like this? There's already effective car stoppers out there like .50 caliber rifles and medium machineguns, both of which would be easier to acquire than a weapon like this.

      Or they could just do a PIT manoeuvre or block them off to stop the target car.

    9. Re:I can't wait... by blindseer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Regardless, This is a garanteed FCC violation for civilians to try. :D

      Right, because that is my primary concern as I attempt to disable a police helicopter.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    10. Re:I can't wait... by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Significantly less flashy... Firing machine guns at a car brings a good deal of attention.. shutting off their car, not as much. And I doubt all 'criminals' can be lumped in with cold hearted killing machines. Most criminals are people that have made some wrong turns or fell in with the wrong people.... Not condensed evil.

      Also it wouldn't be harder to get if it becomes normal for cops to use them. Hell as a corrupt cop I'd be giving these out like candy, much nicer having your car break than getting shot at.

    11. Re:I can't wait... by joocemann · · Score: 1

      If you kill the helicopter's radios, that is almost as good. No radios = no communications. No communications = no flying in some types of airspace. No communications = no ability to tell ground units where you are. They might have a spotlight, unless the pulse kills that too. But if you kill communications, you seriously degrade the mission capability of a police helicopter.

      OH NOES! I"M LOST WITHOUT MY GPS!

      I'm imagining a helo pilot who actually knows where he is in relation to the earth and the terrain below him and could at least figure out how to get back to where he took off.... If that pilot isn't the one flying, well I guess that's a bummer... but I'm also guessing there are pilots that know the terrain they are policing. It is their job, ya know.

    12. Re:I can't wait... by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Criminals have no qualms about using force, why would they resort to a weapon like this? There's already effective car stoppers out there like .50 caliber rifles and medium machineguns, both of which would be easier to acquire than a weapon like this.

      Or they could just do a PIT manoeuvre or block them off to stop the target car.

      So true. Lmfao. A friend and I (we live in Cali) were just going over the various california gun laws and how ridiculous they are.

      All of the laws are tied to fines and punishments that are so minimal they are completely IRRELEVANT to any criminal who would choose to commit a crime with a gun. And in that, the laws do *nothing* deter true criminals from using whatever weapons they want.

      Let's get an anecdote: If i'm planning a serious bank robbery where I hold people up with a gun, potentially shoot a guard or two, and escape.... I think the least of my worries is the fine I will get for having a magazine larger than 10 rounds! If I'm going on a shooting rampage, I don't think it matters to me that I'll get in a little trouble for having an Automatic rifle.

      -------
      All this, nevermind the fact that Cali bans guns by name (fear of the names) than by its actual mechanisms and specs. Thus, an AK-47 is basically outright banned, but an HK-91 (same bullet, better accuracy though) is legal.
      -------

      Get an effin' clue people! Criminals don't give a crap about laws. That's the whole reason they're criminals in the first place! ---- I wonder what an intellgent approach to crime might look like... such as identifying the needs of neglected children and making greater efforts to better their lives and guide them.... Oh wait... that's welfare! (sarcasm) Lets spend millions of tax dollars on EMP guns instead of on helping kids learn to be responsible adults!

    13. Re:I can't wait... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      The Federal law limiting magazines to 10 rounds expired a few years ago, and was not renewed. It was a very unpopular law, for good reason.

      Not that it has anything to do with your reasoning: I agree.

    14. Re:I can't wait... by moortak · · Score: 1

      The primary benefit of a police helo is that they can keep other units informed of suspect location and upcoming hazards. Removing communications removes most of their utility.

      --
      Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
    15. Re:I can't wait... by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Cali still has it. Cali has very stupid laws on this stuff.

    16. Re:I can't wait... by fotbr · · Score: 1

      I said nothing about navigation. Just remove the radios and you remove almost all of the abilities of the helicopter as it pertains to police usage, because they can't tell the ground units where they're at, and where the person they're chasing is.

  4. Onstar? by Yalius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How the heck is this similar to the Onstar system? This uses a directed EMP to disrupt electronic engine control, Onstar uses a built-in remote kill switch. That's like saying shooting a lightbulb is the same as turning off the switch.

    1. Re:Onstar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Either way it's suddenly dark!

    2. Re:Onstar? by donaggie03 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How the heck is this similar to the Onstar system? This uses a directed EMP to disrupt electronic engine control, Onstar uses a built-in remote kill switch. That's like saying shooting a lightbulb is the same as turning off the switch.

      And you would be correct if your intent is to make the room dark. This system is like onstar in that both stop a vehicle remotely.

      --
      Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
    3. Re:Onstar? by mweather · · Score: 1

      This system is like onstar in that both stop a vehicle remotely.

      So Onstar is like .50 BMG?

    4. Re:Onstar? by shadow169 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How the heck is this similar to the Onstar system? This uses a directed EMP to disrupt electronic engine control, Onstar uses a built-in remote kill switch. That's like saying shooting a lightbulb is the same as turning off the switch.

      And you would be correct if your intent is to make the room dark. This system is like onstar in that both stop a vehicle remotely.

      Except that this is Slashdot, "news for nerds", not "news for people who only want the high level concepts". I agree with the gp.

    5. Re:Onstar? by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      agreed - this system is completely unlike Onstar, except fopr the fact that both stop the car. You might as well say that this is just like turning off the car ignition.

      however this is NOT directed EMP. This is a microwave transmitter.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    6. Re:Onstar? by blue+l0g1c · · Score: 3, Funny

      Then we will drive in the SHADE!

    7. Re:Onstar? by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Onstar is hackable, and you can shut off cars untraceably from the comfort of your mom's basement.

    8. Re:Onstar? by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Not the same; similar.

  5. Microprocessor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What if you drive a car without a microprocessor system?

    1. Re:Microprocessor? by Razalhague · · Score: 1

      And where are you going to get one? A museum?

    2. Re:Microprocessor? by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      the VTR 250 (still being made) only uses a single chip for ignition timing, replace that with an old school timing belt and the entire vehicle is mechanical.

      I for one am prepared for when the robot overlords rise with their EMP guns :)

    3. Re:Microprocessor? by easyTree · · Score: 1

      I for one am prepared for when the robot overlords rise with their EMP guns :)

      Given the spread of democratic police states, I'm wondering if the robot overlords wouldn't be welcomed with open arms...

    4. Re:Microprocessor? by arcsimm · · Score: 1

      Craigslist seems like a likely spot. Just search for cars older than 1985.

    5. Re:Microprocessor? by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      What if you drive a car without a microprocessor system?

      You use diesel.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    6. Re:Microprocessor? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Aftermarket retrofits ignition systems are still available.

    7. Re:Microprocessor? by MoFoQ · · Score: 1

      Or you make and add a surge protector circuit to your car?

      Or even better....fashion a EMP reflector so it knocks out the car chasing you.

  6. OnStar not EMP by bughunter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Um. The electromagnetic signal that can be sent from a satellite to an OnStar-equipped vehicle is certainly not any form of an electromagnetic pulse. It's a radio signal encoded with a command telling a microprocessor to disable power to the ignition.

    Who writes this mess?

    --
    I can see the fnords!
    1. Re:OnStar not EMP by Hamoohead · · Score: 1

      Who writes this mess?

      Um, Ted Stevens?

      --
      "If your parents never had children, chances are you wonât either." -Dick Cavett
    2. Re:OnStar not EMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Does that mean with an FM-broadcaster and a Captain crunch whistle, I can drive around town shutting down down peoples cars?

    3. Re:OnStar not EMP by BikeHelmet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's still dangerous, though. I'm surprised it's tolerated in a country where so many refuse to give up their guns, for fear the government will go mad with power.

      Can't give up your guns, but giving up mobility is fine?

      I wonder what'll happen when someone cracks it and starts broadcasting a signal to shut down all the GM cars?

      I'll stick with my 20 year old Toyota. As long as I stick gas in it, it continues to pur.

    4. Re:OnStar not EMP by camperslo · · Score: 1

      I wonder what'll happen when someone cracks it and starts broadcasting a signal to shut down all the GM cars?

      Don't worry, no one will know how... unless your auto manufacturer is using Windows!

    5. Re:OnStar not EMP by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      GSM is finally being cracked. It'll happen eventually.

    6. Re:OnStar not EMP by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can't give up your guns, but giving up mobility is fine?

      That suggests the obvious compromise solution.... install OnStar (tm) on all guns. That way anyone can have a gun, but the government can shut down any guns that are being misused. Plus your gun can ask you if you are okay.

      There, I solved that problem, on to the next one :^)

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    7. Re:OnStar not EMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. OnStar works through the cellular system.

    8. Re:OnStar not EMP by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Yep... and it's much easier to require all new cars to honor a disabling radio code than it is to have this kind of system. This is technology we don't really need developed, but since the police have tax dollars....

    9. Re:OnStar not EMP by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It is interesting, and unfortunate; but it fits with other observations.

      First, of course, is the fact that public understanding of technology and new developments is pretty weak. "DRM", is just barely creeping into popular consciousness, now that it is ubiquitous(every joe user has an ipod, uses DVDs, has an HDMI connection somewhere, or whatever). It isn't a huge surprise that public understanding of exactly what Onstar is capable of is pretty low. As far as I know, none of them are exactly secret(and, even if they were, doing a simple "worst case inference" from what is known would not be difficult. Cellular modem + connection to ECU = guilty of being a remote kill switch until conclusively proven innocent).

      Second, and somewhat related, is the fact that very many people, even people who concern themselves with weapons and resisting the state and so forth, don't do much thinking about things that fall outside of the scope of traditional "weapons". For instance, back in the Clinton administration, when strong crypto was considered a munition, and "Clipper" was being actively advanced, the NRA (as best I've been able to determine from publicly available stuff) didn't so much as issue a press release about the matter. That is pretty myopic. Recognisably modern crypto/cryptoanalysis has been a weapon of war since WWII, and practically contemporary digital crypto was at least filtering out by the time Vietnam rolled around. The fact that encrypted communications were a valuable weapon should have been abundantly obvious to anybody by the 90's. And it isn't like Clinton and the NRA were best buddies in any case, and yet, when the Clinton administration rolled out Clipper, the crypto equivalent of a gun that refuses to fire if any state agent is within 50 yards, they didn't even put out a quick "We support the EFF on this one" note.

      Third is the fact that potentially dangerous private-sector actions often get a pass, even if they clearly make the population more vulnerable to government power. If the feds came out and said "All vehicles from this day forth shall have remote kill switches and tracking devices, under penalty of law" a fair few people would flip their shit. Since, however, GM voluntarily installed them and there are (for the moment) cars that don't include them, any criticism will reliably be met with the slashdot-libertarian 101 "Well, you voluntarily purchased the vehicle, what could the problem possibly be?" no matter what attempts are made to make the "Yes, I realize that each individual transaction is theoretically voluntary. However, the percentage of vehicles that can be remotely tracked and shut down by the state has gone from 0 to X in just a few years, and that increase shows no sign of slowing. Doesn't that concern you?" argument.

      Fourth is the fact that Onstar is one of those things that can easily fall into the unpleasant blind spot of both stereotypical liberals and stereotypical conservatives. Stereotypically, "liberals" tend to suspect and fear the potential malfeasance of government and its agents(concern about police brutality, war crimes, state torture, due process, etc.); but they also want certain services and protections from the state(public education, gun control, etc.). "Conservatives", on the other hand, tend to suspect and fear the state(small government, anti-gun control, anti tax, etc.); but they are often very supportive of and deferential toward agents and symbols of state power("law and order", support of police, support of armed forces, see "due process" as a technicality that lets scum go free, "constitution is not a suicide pact", etc.). For the stereotypical liberal, Onstar's remote kill easily slots into a safety narrative "Prevents dangerous police chases and tragic accidents. Perhaps, in the future, it can prevent speeding!". For the stereotypical conservative, it slots into the tough on crime narrative "Track and recover stolen property, allows police to capture thieves and carjackers."

    10. Re:OnStar not EMP by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      And OnStar is not satellite communications; it works off the cellular network. I worked for a small company that tracked and was able to disable (turn off ignition and lock doors) for an exotic car rental company. Slowing down the vehicle was done by cycling the ignition on and off. This has been done for years on bait cars.

    11. Re:OnStar not EMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You do realize that the NRA isn't "The National Conspiracy Theorist and Republican Right Wing Seperatist Organization", right?

      The NRA, SOLELY concerns itself with firearms. It is not political and is just as quick to support a democrat with a pro-gun record as a republican. It just happens that it generally works out that the democrat is anti-gun. But regardless.

      The NRA coming out about encryption would be way outside the scope of their focus, which has nothing to do with government expansion, people being black bagged, free speech, or any issues such as that. It is purely an organization concerned with firearms.

    12. Re:OnStar not EMP by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      "It is not political"

      Just because it's not partisan doesn't mean it's not political.

    13. Re:OnStar not EMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus your gun can ask you if you are okay.

      I suppose installing Vista would be easier and safer, no?

  7. 2005 Called, they want their article back. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Old news is old. I still remember when this was a new and shiny idea. Just wish I remembered where I put that onion for my belt... Hmm....

    Oh, and get off my lawn!

  8. If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by daemonenwind · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From realpolice.net:
    In this 9 year period (1994-2002), the data showed that there were 2654 fatal crashes involving 3965 vehicles of which there were 3146 fatalities. Of these, 1088 were to people not in the fleeing vehicle.

    If frying someone's car results in a better outcome than the above, I'm all for it.

    Sounds like a great replacement for caltrops.

    1. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now that engineers have successfully made technology invisible, all technology is equivalent. Notice that no one in the health care debate suggested controlling costs at the technology level, only at the "insurance/payout" stage. Technology is no longer suggested as an answer, only until a solution is available on the market (e.g., video conference in lieu of commuting is not a government or business priority).

      There are now two classes of people: those that don't get it, and the minority that do.

    2. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by Thagg · · Score: 1

      My aunt was a deputy sheriff. She says that pursuing a car is just like pulling a gun, and it is a an absolute last resort. The chances of injury, especially to uninvolved bystanders, is very high. Setting up roadblocks was their preferred mode of stopping people (of course, in Aspen it's a lot easier, there are very few roads)

      --
      I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
    3. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I don't remember where I saw this, it was a show sorta like "Beyond 2000" only a modern incarnation of it. They had a demo of a Police car chasing a 'suspect'. Beneath the car was some device bolted to something that looked an awful lot like a skateboard. The Police driver hit a button and the device was released. When it hit the ground these rockets went off and Shoooooooooom! the thing fired head, rolled under the 'suspect' car, and emitted a short-range burst that fried the electronics in the engine.

      There are lots of obvious things wrong with this approach, but dang that demo was neat. Assuming the delivery system was reasonably reliable, I wonder if that would reduce the number of potential bystander injuries.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    4. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Something being less wrong, does not make it right.

      And I bet that soon, everybody BUT the police will have more of these handheld devices, and know better how to use them, than the cops.

      Cue the unstoppable car that EMPs every cop, including the helicopters, large swat trucks, and even tanks! I wish there were a GTA IV mod to show this...

      Also, I wonder how big the focus area is. If it’s bigger than a car, then good luck avoiding a mass-crash on the highway. If it’s smaller, then good luck hitting the right part at 100 mph!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    5. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 1

      It might result in a worse outcome.

    6. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      asking the masses to give up control of their property to cover relative corner cases like you show above is WRONG..

    7. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Yeah. Then they start frying cars while in a high speed chase, the car goes completely out of control (no power steering or control of any kind at 100 mph); more dead bystanders.

        How, exactly, is this a better solution? At least with caltrops the driver still has *some* control over the car, and presumably doesn't want to die.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    8. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by gillbates · · Score: 1

      In that same time frame, about two orders of magnitude more people were killed in ordinary automobile accidents. Around 30,000 people die in collisions every *year*.

      Think about it: why not just outlaw cars completely? You'd save ten times the number of lives as this thing would.

      The great difficulty I have with this is that it is inherently anti-freedom. These arguments in favor of safety *never* make sense, because *everything* in life carries a risk. What this does is removes control, and hence, some responsibility, from criminals. Someone facing a reckless driving charge may be able to argue that they're only partially at fault because the police *could* have prevented an accident. And once this happens, the police *will* use them for even mundane traffic stops, leaving you and I with the repair bill.

      But that isn't even the worst of it. There are times when stopping for the police really is a bad idea:

      1. In suburban Chicago, a Black couple was shot at by drunken Cook County deputies on their way home from a police ball. They managed to escape injury (with a bullet in their roof, no less) by driving to a police station in neighboring Dupage county. But if the police had possessed the means of remotely disabling their vehicle, they'd be dead. And, oh, btw, a judge dismissed all charges against the officers.
      2. Imagine for a moment that you need to get to the hospital quickly - a lacerated jugular, pregnant wife, etc... Clearly, if you wait for the ambulance to show up, you're going to at least double the amount of time it takes for you to get stabilizing treatment. The fastest, lowest risk option is just to get in the car and go. But if the police can disable remotely your vehicle, it is very likely you won't make it in time.
      3. I do know of people who have, successfully outrun the police. The problem is, they always got caught. Before the officer turns on his lights, he's got the plate number, and if he wants to push it, he'll just call ahead to his buddies. There is very seldom a real, compelling law enforcement reason for the much publicized high-speed chase. Even in cases where the car in question must be stopped, it can be accomplished with little more than letting the driver run out of gas. The cops can switch out vehicles; the escapee cannot.
      --
      The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    9. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by bdowd · · Score: 1

      A better idea is to federally mandate that privately owned vehicles be limited to four mph. Additionally drivers and passengers
      must be wrapped in Michelin (tm) tire suits to minimize accidental trauma.

    10. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but what if it's safer for the criminals and less safe for the bystanders who get their cars zapped (or their household electronics/pacemakers/etc. zapped)?

      Honestly, they'd do better to mandate that cars come with remote control circuits that the police can access and shut down on demand...

    11. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first time a single mother and her two kids get immobilized by an EMP gun in the middle of nowhere, then are subsequently raped and murdered, I hope you'll eat those words. Without salt.

    12. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Why would there be no steering or "control"? Hint: turn off your ignition on the highway at 60mph but do not allow it to lock the column. Surprise - car drives fine and decelerates slowly - the brakes still work too....

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    13. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I think I've seen the same thing. Problem is you'd have to be pretty close to deploy it.

      The parts for a low-tech solution are already there - radios, helicopters an snipers.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    14. Re:If it's safer than hot pursuit, go for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And out of those fatal crashes, what was the crime that the suspect committed that warranted taking up a high speed and potentially lethal chase?

      Unless they are chasing someone who is en route to committing a crime, the deed is done...follow them with a helicopter or do some police work. Don't go driving over sidewalks at 50+ MPH because some dude robbed an insured bank of a few hundred dollars.

  9. Interesting choice of wording by Whuffo · · Score: 1
    They say that they can disable the car's electronic systems - but what they really mean is DESTROY those systems. Any vehicle targeted by this technology will require thousands of dollars in repairs before it can be driven again.

    That might prevent the technology from widespread use - it would be a field day for attorneys as police destroyed people's cars (and other property) while they were chasing a criminal. I'm sure that the vendor also says they can target one car specifically while they disable it - but it's not going to work that way in the real world. Their EMP pulse will spread as a spherical field and any electronics within range will get fried.

    1. Re:Interesting choice of wording by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      EM radius *can* be aimed, you know. Like, say, a flashlight. Or a directional antenna. This isn't an EM spectrum from a nuclear airburst. It's directed radiation, probably in the microwave spectrum (the goal is to use frequencies at which circuit traces, or even better, conductive paths within ICs become antennas, causing current to flow in unintended ways)

    2. Re:Interesting choice of wording by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Insightful

      - it would be a field day for attorneys as police destroyed people's cars (and other property) while they were chasing a criminal.

      The standard answer used by many municipalities (and accepted by many courts) is that they are not liable. There won't be a field day -- it'll be something covered by insurance, and sucks to be you if you don't have any.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    3. Re:Interesting choice of wording by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      EM radius *can* be aimed, you know. Like, say, a flashlight. Or a directional antenna.

      I can see it now... the chase begins. Officer McNalley, who's three days away from retirement, bellows to his young partner Turk Bannon "Hold the car steady! I'm gonna try to slow them down using the giant EM flashlight!" He leans out the window, aiming the eight-foot device at the suspect's car. Just at that moment, though, a young mother pushing a stroller steps into a crosswalk - right in front of the police car. Bannon jerks the wheel, hard to the left, and McNalley is thrown out the window. He hits the ground and rolls - badly bruised, but alive. But when the EM flashlight strikes the ground, it bursts apart - and one of the shards kills McNalley.

      Bannon, standing over his partner's body, swears revenge against the evil corporation that ignored all safety and environmental regulations while pushing this poorly-built device through an offshore manufacturing plant. After a couple minutes of innuendo-filled dialogue between Bannon and the young mother, his quest for vengeance begins...

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:Interesting choice of wording by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > EM radius *can* be aimed, you know. Like, say, a flashlight. Or a
      > directional antenna.

      A directional antenna of dimensions several times the wavelength of the lowest frequency component of the pulse. As EMP contains substantial energy at wavelengths of many meters your "flashlight" will have be the size of a house to produce anything resembling a beam.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    5. Re:Interesting choice of wording by Tacvek · · Score: 2

      You don't need a wide spectrum for a EM pulse weapon to be effective. The microwave band is actually quite effective at destroying electronics, in addition to working as a pain-inducing less than lethal weapon, if you choose the right frequencies. And making a directional microwave gun is reasonably easy, Create a large scaled magnetron, and use say a parabolic reflecting dish. Voila. Having a portable power source for the gun is a bit tricker, but still quite possible.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    6. Re:Interesting choice of wording by John+Hasler · · Score: 2

      You're going to zap a car from behind with microwaves and fry the engine electronics. Sure. Might work on some rear-engine cars.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    7. Re:Interesting choice of wording by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      then its high time victims start suing the criminals for the damage caused, instead of suing the police.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    8. Re:Interesting choice of wording by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Read the article - thats EXACTLY what they are saying. They are using microwaves, NOT an EMP.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    9. Re:Interesting choice of wording by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope your wrong, just like if the police kick in your door to search your house and don't find what they thought you had, you get a new door. Just because they might at first claim they arn't liable, they are. When the government takes away from innocent people they have to repay, its kinda like them paying for property, they cant just go and say thats mine now. its the same principal. A 8th grade civics class could do wonders for you, perhaps you could look into that.

    10. Re:Interesting choice of wording by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Yeah, no shit. Even in modern cars the various metal pieces in the car body would attenuate and diffract the signal so much it's likely little of the energy from it would get past the voltage fault circuits in the electronics wiring to actually disable the ignition circuits or computer. I'd give it an outside chance of working on some cars, some of them are pretty badly engineered. But not on the majority of them.

        This is more pie in the sky wishful thinking shit, brought to us courtesy of companies selling snake oil to LE organizations. The commentary stemming from this article is rather entertaining, tho.

        If disabling automobiles via EMP pulse was practical the military would have been doing it years ago in Iraq and Afghanistan.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    11. Re:Interesting choice of wording by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. This technology sucks and is dangerous, with dire financial consequences for those suffering collateral damage. They should abandon this technology and just go back to the good old method of chasing down a car at high speed until it stops safely inside someone's house; or try P.I.T. manouvers and spike strips so the car spins out of control, poughing through pedestrians until it gently stops on top of a crossing student.
      Boo for technology!

    12. Re:Interesting choice of wording by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that the metal pieces don't attenuate cell phone signals badly enough to prevent them from working. We have a signal in the roughly 13 centemeter wavelength. There are plenty of areas much bigger than that that have no metal components in a typical car. It would certainly be possible for enough signal to make it to the area under the drivers seat where the ECU can be found in many vehicles.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
  10. Questions by tylerni7 · · Score: 1

    I have to wonder a few things after seeing that video:

    What happens when a person going 70mph suddenly loses control of their vehicle?
    How accurate can that sort of gun be? Over what sort of angle and distance is it will effective?
    Is there a way to shield the car with a faraday cage to prevent this sort of thing from happening? And if not, wouldn't this just mess up the police cars? What's going to stop the police (or **AA) from "accidentally" frying your computer with one of these?

    This is certainly cool technology that I'd love to get my hands on.. but more info would be nice...

    1. Re:Questions by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > What happens when a person going 70mph suddenly loses control of their
      > vehicle?

      The run into somebody and kill them. Just like they do when being chased at high speed.

      > How accurate can that sort of gun be?

      It cannot be accurate at all, but the cops will become convinced that it is laser-like.

      > Over what sort of angle and distance is it will effective?

      The field will be blob-shaped, with slightly more range forward than back. It will only wreck cars at a fairly short range but will destroy unshielded electronic equipment (cellphones, 'Pods, laptops...) at a much greater range.

      > Is there a way to shield the car with a faraday cage to prevent this sort
      > of thing from happening? And if not, wouldn't this just mess up the police
      > cars?

      A bit of filtering and shielding will suffice, and the cop cars will get it. So will the vehicles of some criminals.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Questions by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      Time to start a business selling tinfoil hats for use on cars ^^

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    3. Re:Questions by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Same thing that happens now if your engine quits suddenly at 70mph, you slow don fairly quickly while at the same time lose power sterring. However if your going 70mph your going in a mostly straight line anyways. Unless your dumb enough to go 70 down city streets. worst case is you crash going a lot slower than70 mph.

      Distance unknown however it will probably be like a spot light in it's target area a spot probably about 10 meters wide at most.

      nope, only if it hits them too, we shall find out.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    4. Re:Questions by beefmusta · · Score: 1

      And if it's anything less than laser-like in accuracy you can bet any unfortunate cars nearby will have their electronics fried as well. Because it's not as if criminals swerve in and out of traffic or anything.

    5. Re:Questions by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      The same thing that happens when you run out of gas going 70 mph. Fortunately cars don't suddenly swerve violently, flip over and explode when the ignition is turned off, even if they're moving at the time.

    6. Re:Questions by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      Zapping the cars that the criminals are trying to swerve around probably will stop them though. As they crash into the zapped and out-of-control cars.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    7. Re:Questions by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      The run into somebody and kill them. Just like they do when being chased at high speed.

      Won't the effect of the pulse gun be more like running out of gas?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    8. Re:Questions by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Which completely defeats the purpose of safely disabling the car. Most car chases already end with a crash into a bystander's vehicle - that would just add an additional possibility for a lawsuit against the city.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    9. Re:Questions by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      >>The run into somebody and kill them. Just like they do when being chased at high speed.

      I'm going to play devil's advocate* here. The difference between this device and other like it versus out-of-control chases is that the police can choose when and where to deploy it. That is, it's doubtful that they will use it on a crowded section of highway- it is much more likely that the first time the car is alone on the street, or better yet walled-in between dividers, the police would use the device. But then again, maybe you're right and all police are mouth-breathing hydrocephalic half-wits.

      >>It cannot be accurate at all, but the cops will become convinced that it is laser-like.

      Yes, after seeing it cause collateral damage again and again, they will become convinced that it is laser-like. Kind of like how they are always spraying OC upwind. Ho Ho, they'll never learn! :)

      >>A bit of filtering and shielding will suffice, and the cop cars will get it. So will the vehicles of some criminals.

      And that's why we have the time-tested PIT maneuver ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIT_maneuver ). This is just another tool in a large inventory of strategies for dealing with chases. If it gets out of the lab, approved by all the governing bodies, and then used for routine traffic stops, get back to me.

      -b

      *In the slashdot sense. You know what I mean.

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
    10. Re:Questions by jimicus · · Score: 1

      How accurate can that sort of gun be?

      It cannot be accurate at all, but the cops will become convinced that it is laser-like.

      Not just that, the manufacturer will swear blind that it's perfect.

      Which means if your car is caught in the crossfire, getting some bugger to admit to it and pay for repairs will be well-nigh impossible.

    11. Re:Questions by arekusu_ou · · Score: 0

      > The run into somebody and kill them. Just like they do when being chased at high speed.

      Have you ever had your electrical system and engine shut off on you while on the highway? I have, twice. Sure the steering wheel is sluggish, but it's more like locking you in the straight direction rather than erratic movement, though with some decent elbow grease you can still turn your car and roll off the road safely. And unless you're on a steep slope, gravity and friction will slow your car to a stop rather fast or at least a relatively low speed that you can jump out of the car.

      On high-speed chases, they also try and clear the way as well, wouldn't be hard to get a nice 1 min clear area to zap them.

      What's the alternative? Blow out the tires? THAT will cause erratic movement and collision.

    12. Re:Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And of course all safety systems will be disabled as well, so no air bags and no power assisted brakes, how bloody stupid!
      The guy behind this invention clearly has a serious common sense deficiency.

  11. Uh-oh... by Third+Position · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not sure I like the sound of this. Consider the lesson of the taser. Now that the cops have a weapon that doesn't kill or maim, they've gotten increasingly slap-happy about using it. Cops were at least cautious about using firearms, least they have to defend themselves against using deadly force. But they're happy to pull out the taser at the drop of a hat.

    This may sound like a good idea, but I suspect the cops will be using this a lot more liberally than intended.

    --
    American Third Position
    Finally, a real choice!
    1. Re:Uh-oh... by MarkvW · · Score: 1

      Doubt it. Destroying somebody's property without just cause invites a 1983 suit.

      Does make a good point though. The legislature should make it so that the device used must have built-in data collection that details when (and maybe where) the device was employed. That way, there be some splaining to do if the device gets discharged without a report detailing the incident that caused the discharge.

    2. Re:Uh-oh... by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Of course it will. I would rather have the cops use a taser on someone than say beat the crap out of someone with wooden batons to get a drunk to listen to reason and stop driving.

      If the problems with cars electronics is only temporary(pull battery cable off, let system rest, put battery cable on and go) I would rather have cops using this than say following a drunk doing 90 down a street cause the guy can't read the difference on his speed gauge.

      Indeed Police really need a shoot first weapon to diffuse stupid people and still be able to ask them questions later with no real trauma(Taser really isn't it). will it be abused. Yep but we can make laws to limit police abuse, we can't make laws that stupid people won't break anyways.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:Uh-oh... by CannonballHead · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Is the problem the Taser, or the fact that it's considered "safe" then? I'd certainly rather be tasered than shot. And I'm glad cops user tasers instead of shooting. And I'm not sure it's "at the drop of a hat."

      And frankly, I get tired of the anti-cop sentiment. Sure, we hear all the bad stories and there have been abuses and they should be dealt with. To me, those stories are roughly equivalent to, oh, senators abusing their power/position. To reflect the actions of the ones that abuse it on all cops is, IMO, very childish.

      I know actually quite a few cops, they are very good people. One in particular, I know, risks his life very frequently during night raids and the like. Another one I know was in a very extended undercover thing... complete with growing a beard, changing his name, and everything. I hate it when they, who are "cops" and who actually write *gasp* speeding tickets for people who *gasp* were breaking the speed limit, get a bad rap because of the ACTUALLY bad people that end up being cops and abuse their power. I think abusing that power is sick and it should be treated very justly... which it doesn't appear it generally is. On the other hand, cop-killings don't seem to be treated very justly, either. Or most violent crimes, IMO. "Temporary insanity" and all that.

      It's "excessive" force not "deadly" force. Deadly force is fine, when not excessive.

      Sorry for the irritable tone. I'm a nice guy, really. :) hehe.

    4. Re:Uh-oh... by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      It's way worse than the taser. The proper equivalent would be for the cops to have a "directed" gas weapon that'd knock down everyone in the area of effect, causing injuries when they fall. Tasers are problematic, but this would be beyond ridiculous. They could kill dozens of cars in a chase! Just imagine if the weapon is fired near a critical location like an hospital or a power plant...

    5. Re:Uh-oh... by aaandre · · Score: 1

      The lesson of the taser is that it's fun, fun, fun!

    6. Re:Uh-oh... by Hurricane78 · · Score: 0, Troll

      That whole “doesn’t kill” idea, is just *wrong*.

      As if killing would be the worst case possible.
      It’s not. By far.
      There are much worse things.

      Like becoming a drooling retard in a wheelchair, after the needle shocked right into your spinal nerves!
      I’d rather be shot.

      Besides: Contrary to popular belief, gun shots do not have to be lethal at all!
      A small bullet in a leg muscle is far less bad than a taser in your central nervous system.
      Of course there are even less bad systems. A couple of ropes, around the legs. A net thrown over someone. Foam that gets hard.
      All simple, non lethal, not even painful, methods to stop someone quickly and effectively.
      There are thousands of methods.

      I’ll go out and say, that the only reason, tasers are more popular, is that it satisfies the perverse sadistic needs of the average cop / security guy / blackwater murderer / soldier. You know. Those types that don’t do it to do good, but because of the“fun” of legally hurting others. Those types that pull every good cop into their dirt.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    7. Re:Uh-oh... by Angst+Badger · · Score: 1

      This may sound like a good idea, but I suspect the cops will be using this a lot more liberally than intended.

      Not only that, given that they are already legally protected from liability in high speed chases -- including cases when bystanders are killed -- I don't expect anyone will have any luck getting their car repairs (or injuries) paid for when the cops overuse it or, just as likely, miss and hit the wrong car. The OnStar kill signal is noxious and prone to abuse, too, but this is just reckless endangerment.

      Good luck talking them out of it, though. Cops being cops, resistance will only encourage them.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    8. Re:Uh-oh... by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      It is a lie that Tasers were implemented as an alternative to firearm use. Anything you would have been shot for 30 years ago you will still be shot for. It is now standard practice for police to use tasers and pepper spray to torture suspects into compliance rather than to use physical manipulation. Granted the latter was often painful, but there is a difference between twisting someone's arm behind his back in order to cuff him, and subjecting him to enough torture that he wants to put his arm behind his back to top the pain. It may be easier or even safer, but it is a "cruel and unusual" violation of human rights and indeed only strengthens "anti-cop sentiment." (That and that police are non-productive members of society mostly doing the counter-productive work of "drug enforcement.")

    9. Re:Uh-oh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Realistically, tasers are roughly equivalent to billy club/kinghtsticks with (depending on model) a longer reach. I imagine that getting tased probably hurts more at initially, but on average has shorter lasting effects. As with the billy club, it can be abused (the Rodney King incident for instance).

    10. Re:Uh-oh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure you would rather be shot in the leg, than tazered if, for example, you have a heart condition, which a cop would have no way of telling. Also, being shot in the leg, vs being tazered (even in a perfectly healthy person) for too long... come on.

      You don't have to shoot someone to kill, you know. Police aren't just tazering criminals. They're zapping people before even asking questions or being given a reason to sometimes. It's like that guy that was going into an epileptic seizure on a 911 ambulence call and a cop tazered him, leaving permanant damage to the guy. I would rather police just had guns, and used them wisely. Wrongful shootings happened, but to be honest, we shouldn't be hiring jumped up lunatics with a mean streak to be Peace Officers in the first place.

      They should be guardians of the public, not attack dogs looking for someone to assault.

    11. Re:Uh-oh... by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 1

      That's great you know a few good cops. The reason "all cops" suffer the bad rap is that even the ones who technically do a good honest job tend to act like asshole thugs toward civilians. As far as I can tell they've totally forgotten the "serve" part of "protect and serve". And no I don't want them to serve me ice cream and rub my back. But not acting like Nelson from the Simpsons would sure be a good start.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    12. Re:Uh-oh... by DrKnark · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of something I saw on "Cops" which I was surprised was actually shown on TV. The cops were chasing a random drug-dealer or equivalent, during the chase / apprehension he was resisting. Then once the criminal was on the ground and in handcuffs, a female cop was screaming something about "never put your hands on me", and then said to the other cops "let me tase him". Which she did, while reiterating her previous statement.

      I'm Swedish, so I'm not sure about laws and practices in the US. But in Sweden it would definitely not be acceptable to intentionally harm a person who is safely in custody, no matter how much they've resisted. I understand that the cop was pissed off at the criminal for resisting so vigorously, but that doesn't seem like a good enough reason. It was surprising to me that this part was on the show.

    13. Re:Uh-oh... by cynyr · · Score: 1

      I'd rather my wife be shot than tasered... For the most part the bullet wound is going to be relitivly repairable, her heart stopping from the taser is probably going to do some damage long term, even if they have the defibulator on hand and preped and ready to go. Seeing as the cop doesn't know about her condition by looking at her, I'm willing to bet that the taser would just get whipped out and bam.... Those with heart murmurs or pace makes are likly to suffer quite a bit of trauma from a taser. So in my case it's the fact the cops seem to think they are "safe". Cops get a bad rap because they are seen as overstepping their bounds or "selectively" enforcing. If all of the traffic is speeding but i'm the only one in the 40 cars around me that gets pulled over, that isn't "fair". Also is the cop 100% sure that is wide angle radar/laser gun only targeted my car? that it was a correct reading? if i want to argue the ticket how much time off work do i need? if it is thrown out does the cop get pay docked to cover my lost wages? Even something like a speeding ticket isn't simple from a human point of view. Also most states have a "obstructing traffic" law, so which law wins? speed limit or slowing down traffic?

      So i'm in full support of the police doing their jobs, but they(as a group) need to enforce uniformly. Speeding tickets for all speeding or none at all, etc.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  12. Loss of potential acronymic irony by bobdotorg · · Score: 1

    If only they called it the:

    High ElectroMagnetic Power System

    the headlines could read:

    "Cops Use HEMPS to Catch Criminals"

    Hemp - is there anything it _can't_ do?

    --
    __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
  13. In an attempt to... by tocs · · Score: 1

    "In an attempt to put an end to dangerous police high speed chases," might also read: In an attempt to make lots of money...

  14. "I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers." by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sure, but not intentionally. They'll also "test" it on parked vehicles, tv sets, computers, iPods, traffic light controllers, and anything else that happens to get into the "beam" as the cops treat it as a precise magic car-killer that affects only cars and only the ones they aim at.

    Eventually there will be an "underground" business in installing filters and shielding. It will become illegal to possess ferrite beads without a license.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:"I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Carburetors?

    2. Re:"I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers." by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Testing it on pacemakers would be easy. Testing it on pacemakers installed into living humans would involve a high degree of liability.

        I can definitely see, in the not so far future, police being required to inspect vehicles for "illegal shielding modifications". Most officers I know would consider it gilding the lily, however, on top of all the other stuff they are asked to do but not even remotely trained for.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    3. Re:"I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers." by iksbob · · Score: 1

      Or just wrap all the wiring harnesses with aluminum foil duct tape.

    4. Re:"I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers." by digsbo · · Score: 1
      It's already becoming illegal to fortify your home against invasion. The justification is that no one who's not doing something illegal has a reason to fear no-knock forced entry from the police/ATF/FBI/DHS.

      http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=3269

    5. Re:"I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers." by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't. The article says it's against the law in Oklahoma to fortify a home "where a felony offense prohibited by the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Act is being committed". That's hardly a general prohibition. And I might mention too that the law pertains only to Oklahoma. Most sane people live elsewhere anyway.

    6. Re:"I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they unintentionally tested it on the video camera they were using and it kept working perfectly...

    7. Re:"I wonder if they'll test it on Pacemakers." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmmm.

      How about shielding your engine with ferrofluid in a flexible plastic container?

      Imagine the excitement when the ferrofluid reacts to that emp blast! :)

  15. I'm assuming any serious criminal by Undernet-hobbit · · Score: 1

    Would build a faraday cage around the sensitive electronics in a vehicle once a device like this comes to fruition for the authorities... I guess it's good for your ho-hum car-jacker though

    1. Re:I'm assuming any serious criminal by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Would build a faraday cage around the sensitive electronics

      Shielding and filtering should suffice.

      > I guess it's good for your ho-hum car-jacker though

      Of course, the jacked car will suffer $5,000 damage...

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  16. This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Using it on a car sounds really REALLY stupid.

    1. It will kill the car, not merely create a carefully programmed disabling like the Onstar system. Most likely this leads to a car crash and quite likely require complete replacement of all electronics.

    2. As others stated, pacemakers, watches, cellphones, laptops, etc. will also be affected.

    3. This will get into the hands of criminals. I am quite frankly they don't already have it. Here are some of the things I think people might use it on:

    ATM's If there is a 1 in 100 chance of it malfunctioning and spitting out the money, then ATM's will be hit 100 times.

    Toll machines - obvious

    Red lights (and the cameras aimed at them).

    cop cars

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see a scenario of criminals using this:

      Take a stretch of I-10 or a highway. The van or whatever carries the gear gets set up. Someone drives past in a decent car, *pop*, car gets stalled, the people in the car get jacked, shot and tossed in a ditch, the car gets stripped and remnants pushed somewhere not seen from the highway and the criminals wait for the next victim.

      What I'm even more worried about is when (not if) criminals are able to forge kill signals from OnStar. This would allow the criminals to knock out vehicles on a remote highway, cap the occupants, restart the engine, and have a perfectly useful stolen car without any threat to them.

    2. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by CodeBuster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nevermind the fact that this has "massive liability" (i.e. instant class action lawsuits) written all over it; especially for the manufacturer of the device (Eureka Aerospace). The car might as well be sent to the crusher after being hit with this device because it will effectively be a complete loss with damaged or destroyed electronics. No doubt the insurance companies, who will be forced to "total out" stolen vehicles hit with this device, will have a thing or two to say as well.

    3. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

      If they don't crash (or other damage), they can simply replace the electronics. It should be no more than a couple grand, not a total out. But I do agree about liability.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    4. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

      Nah, the kill signal is an example of too much effort. If you are good enough to crack the OnStar system, you are good enough to crack a bank. Trust me, I've worked at banks, their software is not particularly strong. Cracking the bank will offer much much more bang for your buck than risking picking a car whose owner belongs to the NRA.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    5. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by indiechild · · Score: 1

      Huh, why would an ATM spit out money when it goes dead? Sounds too much like Hollywood.

    6. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by easyTree · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Would an EMP-pulse disable an airbag-release system?

    7. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      Nevermind the fact that this has "massive liability" (i.e. instant class action lawsuits) written all over it;

      Is it really any worse, liability-wise, than the high-speed chase that would be the alternative? What's the liability when one or more cars involved in the chase lose control and wipe out an entire Starbucks?

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    8. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Informative

      1. It will kill the car, not merely create a carefully programmed disabling like the Onstar system. Most likely this leads to a car crash and quite likely require complete replacement of all electronics.

      Have you ever driven a car where the engine failed at speed? I have -- all that happens is the steering goes stiff and the car starts to slow down. You've got plenty of time to make your way out of the traffic lanes.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    9. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WOW, you have it all figured out. You should be president or something.

    10. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Graff · · Score: 1

      Huh, why would an ATM spit out money when it goes dead?

      Random electrical input (in the form of induced currents from an EMP) can cause random effects in electronic devices. Yeah, it's not likely for an ATM to start spitting out cash but it might happen if hit by an EMP.

      Years ago I knew people who would soak dollar bills in a salt solution then use them in vending machines. The conductive fluid would short out components and once in a while the vending machine would dump change or vend random items. I'm pretty sure that today's machines are hardened against this type of attack so it doesn't work any more.

      There were some similar attacks when slot machines went from mechanical to electronic. People would build shock devices - high voltage, low current, battery-powered devices. They would brush electrodes against the metal parts of the slot machine and sometimes it would cause the machine to glitch and dump cash. Now all the slot machines are hardened and tested against these sort of attacks.

    11. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it's also a lot harder to get in a position in a bank to deploy software to crack their systems (never mind then laundering the money enough so that it's not traced back to you) than to sit on the side of the road with the car equivalent of a tv-b-gone.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    12. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Firehed · · Score: 1

      I doubt it - my understanding is that a sufficiently strong crash will rupture a barrier between two chemicals that basically explode (thus filling the airbag) when mixed.

      Of course, we like to over-engineer everything else with unnecessary electronics - I don't see why airbags would be any different.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    13. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Random electrical input (in the form of induced currents from an EMP) can cause random effects in electronic devices. Yeah, it's not likely for an ATM to start spitting out cash but it might happen if hit by an EMP.

      No, the ATM is designed so a single fault cannot dispense cash. First the cash requested is dispensed into an internal holder, and counted. (This is the whirring you hear before you get your money) If it reads a miscount its dumped internally and re-dispensed. Only when it gets a correct count is the money transferred from the internal holder to the output slot.

      It is impossible for a random electrical surge to cause the above sequence of events to happen. So no, an EMP will not cause money to spit of of an ATM.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    14. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      >>The car might as well be sent to the crusher after being hit with this device

      Have you ever actually seen what happens to most cars at the end of a high-speed chase? They're not exactly ready for the sales lot.

      Why do you all think that this will be used for routine traffic stops?

      "Hey, that guy's got expired tags. Zap him and brick his $40k suv. Don't worry about the consequences, because we are teh police and it's totally fair to compare us to the SS and the gov't of the book 1984 which someone read 15 years ago and we never get punished and it's completely appropriate for the country to judge the entire force based on the actions of a few screw-ups even though we're the first people they call when their neighbor won't turn down the music. Also: run-on sentences."

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
    15. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Ranzear · · Score: 1

      It would actually be more likely to trigger it.

      --
      Slashdot: Where opinions are just opinions until you have mod points.
    16. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by thogard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You may have to replace every sensor and there are several hundred. Just replacing a modern dash could is a 3 hour job on an easy car. Throw in replacing all airbags, all the sensors, the ABS computer, the ABS sensors, the fuel level sensor, the radio and the 40 or so sensors in the engine compartment. I don't think you could do that for a couple of grand.

    17. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but the practicality of vehicle-mounted EMP beam weapons is nicely coinciding with the introduction of commercial drive-by-wire only vehicles. Recipe for serious problems, IMHO, whereas if they;d been able to miniaturize this weapon 5 years ago, they'd be off the hook and the new-fangled vehicles would get blamed...

    18. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      I don't think you could do that for a couple of grand.

      They would basically have to take the car completely apart to get at every sensor and computer, replace all of them and then put everything back together again. The newest cars are the worst in this regard; they are literally jammed full of electronics, sensors and computers. It would probably take them at least a couple of weeks to finish everything with a couple of grand just for the parts alone. Then you have to factor in the labor, which would probably have to be done by a factory authorized dealer with all of the licensed diagnostic software and manufacturer parts support; so figure about five times the cost of the parts in labor. Unless your vehicle is a late model luxury car, it is likely that all of this is going to cost more than the residual value of the repaired vehicle or in other words the insurance company would "total it out" and sell it on as a used parts wreck.

    19. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Graff · · Score: 1

      It is impossible for a random electrical surge to cause the above sequence of events to happen. So no, an EMP will not cause money to spit of of an ATM.

      I certainly don't know everything about the internals of an ATM machine but I do know 1 thing: impossible is a very strong word. A sequence of glitches like you describe may be extremely unlikely but that doesn't mean that it is impossible. The very nature of an EMP attack is that it creates a lot of glitches at once and I'm sure there is some chance that the right ones can occur to cause an ATM to dump cash.

      However, I can see that it is very improbable that it will happen.

    20. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by JohnnyBGod · · Score: 1

      You forgot to mention your braking power plummeting.

    21. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you missed the part where it says that this is intended to stop fleeing criminals. Making the car crash is already the standard (and only way) of stopping them, and considered better than letting the criminal escape or crash on his own into some innocent bystander.

    22. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Sure it is possible but very improbable, along the same lines that the uncertainty principle says it is possible but highly improbable that a Ferrari will spontaneously appear in my driveway.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    23. Re:This is an anti-robot weapon, not anti-car by Graff · · Score: 1

      along the same lines that the uncertainty principle says it is possible but highly improbable that a Ferrari will spontaneously appear in my driveway.

      Damn, I'm waiting on that one too! Well, if the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is true then maybe there's a universe out there where that's happened...

  17. Reality catching up to past TV shows by ArcticBirdman · · Score: 1

    This is interesting in that a TV show from 1994 used a Dodge Viper equipped with such a device to stop vehicles the 'Good' guy was chasing. They were also able to morph the car. I can see that coming soon as well.

  18. Viper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one mentioning Viper, where this was used? Come on, Slashdot!

  19. try it on my '81 diesel VW by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    Since I have a car w/o any electronics, I'm fine. Not that a diesel Rabbit is really going to outrun a cop car anyway.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  20. What a great tool for robbery! by gti_guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A focused EMP beam from a gun? What a great way to destroy video cameras & alarm systems! It sure would make robbery a LOT easier.

    1. Re:What a great tool for robbery! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many security systems rely on a keep-alive signal. Disabling these systems through EMP will just end up triggering them.

    2. Re:What a great tool for robbery! by the_fat_kid · · Score: 1

      and think of the get-away opportunities.
      you would be unstoppable.
      Cop cars, helicopters, Knight-boat. All useless.
      Unless they came after you in Diesel VWs.
      and that sight alone might be worth getting caught...

      --
      -- Sig under construction...
    3. Re:What a great tool for robbery! by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Sure, if an EMP gun were real, BUT IT'S NOT REAL! It doesn't exist.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  21. Pacemakers? by northernboy · · Score: 1

    Did anybody stop to consider the possibility of collateral damage? Aside from beloved portable electronics, what about a hostage with a pacemaker? We don't want to disable that device do we? And to penetrate the body of the car (which side of the engine block are these microprocessors located on, anyway?) they're probably generating a pretty significant pulse.

    What about residences or businesses down range??

    1. Re:Pacemakers? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > What about residences or businesses down range?

      They had better have insurance.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Pacemakers? by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      They're not on the engine block.

      Every relatively modern car I've ever seen has had the engine computer located under the dash.

      The only exception to this that I've seen is my brother's 1977 Mercury Monarch, which has an electronic ignition module mounted on the inside of one fender. The rest of the system, though, - fuel, timing, etc. - is all old school. Carburetor, distributor, etc.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    3. Re:Pacemakers? by northernboy · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I had a 1986 Ford Taurus wagon that had the mechanics thinking it needed a new cpu module, and I swear that it they showed me something flat, black and squarish under the hood. I thought it was on the forward side of the engine block, but that was a long time ago, and my memory has more holes than swiss cheese.

    4. Re:Pacemakers? by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      A mid 80s domestic could have had a similar electronic ignition module on the engine. But that's not the actual engine control computer - it's a few solid state bits and the ignition coil.

      The computer that actually sends the signal to fire the thing is still under the dash.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  22. ..and speaking of OnStar: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This is the #1 reason why you should NOT ever had OnStar in your car. Ever. Not even for free. You do NOT need any 3rd party being able to disable your car, let alone be able to monitor where you are and the conversations going on inside your car. If you have OnStar, stop paying for it, find all the antennas associated with the system and cut the leads, preferably shorting them out in the process.

    1. Re:..and speaking of OnStar: by adolf · · Score: 1

      Why not just route them all to a switch, so you can still use it when you want to? Or, simpler: Find the brick the antennas plug into, and switch the 12V lines going to it.

      I'm a privacy nut, myself, at times. When my boss installed tracking software on my company-owned phone, I bought a nice vinyl-covered Faraday cage for it made out of conductive fabric to use in those times when he needn't know where I'm at.

      Yanking antennas and destroying electronics seems far-fetched and brutal. It's easier to keep the OnStar system for what it is useful for, and provide oneself a method to turn it off when it's not needed.

    2. Re:..and speaking of OnStar: by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      Why didn't you just leave the phone on your desk at work or were you a travelling salesman?

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    3. Re:..and speaking of OnStar: by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Why didn't you just turn the phone off?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:..and speaking of OnStar: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess he didn't want to be bothered with having to *turn it on* when he pulled it out to make a call or check for messages. Or he's full of shit. Probably the latter.

    5. Re:..and speaking of OnStar: by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      I'd be willing to bet that the OnStar system is controlled by the same computer that controls your ignition, fuel injection, and transmission shift points.

      Meaning....cut power to OnStar, and the car won't start.

      Cutting the antennas might be the only way to do it.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    6. Re:..and speaking of OnStar: by adolf · · Score: 1

      Because it's a pain in the ass to turn the phone on and off. It took just a second or two to slip it into its Faraday pouch, as opposed to several seconds to shut down, and half a minute to boot back up.

      For the AC posting below, who likely will never see this, the case is here.

    7. Re:..and speaking of OnStar: by adolf · · Score: 1

      And I'm willing to bet that, having seen the variety of separate electronic modules in a modern fancy car, that Onstar is its own box. Especially, since it's still optional on many GM models, and they've never been a big fan of reinventing a wheel that already exists.

    8. Re:..and speaking of OnStar: by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      Electronic module != Computer.

      Although you might be right with it being an optional component, but since it's tied into airbags, ignition, and probably other systems, I doubt you could just unplug the module and the car would still run properly.

      But then, I had to replace the computer in my Camaro a little while ago, and there was a different computer for the automatic transmission version than the manual version. Not just an extra module plugged in, but the wires that went to the transmission to control shifts on the automatic didn't even have a connector to plug into on the manual transmission computer.

      I've seen a case where disconnecting a seized up rear wiper motor caused the car to miss and run roughly. On a car without OnStar, it's probably got some kind of bus terminator type thing that plugs in instead of the OnStar module, if it's not a completely different (maybe internally modular, but still different) computer.

      Although, since this is purely speculation - although based on experience - I could be completely wrong, and you could just unplug the separate and nicely labelled OnStar module with the cable running to the engine computer that's labelled "Unplug this cable here to disable OnStar."

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  23. Sounds great, until... by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 1

    Just wait until it's used in a high population density area, and everybody within three blocks who has a pacemaker keels over. And how many bystanders do you think are going to want their watches, cellphones, laptops, etc., replaced by the cops? Free upgrades for all!

    1. Re:Sounds great, until... by Maxmin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      how many bystanders do you think are going to want their watches, cellphones, laptops, etc., replaced by the cops?

      Good luck with that ... and when it happens, I bid you welcome to the infamous blue wall of silence. After NYPD cops illegally confiscated and damaged a camcorder of mine, it took nearly six months for them to acknowledge that the incident even took place! Despite having excellent video evidence, from other videographers.

      --
      O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
  24. "designed to disable a cars microprocessor system" by Maxmin · · Score: 1

    One more reason to never let go of my supercharged '68 Oldsmobile 442 getaw^H^H^H^H^H ride... no integrated circuits. Except the sound system, of course - which, to keep up the stereotype, plays only 8-track tapes, preferably from the mid-Jurrasic rock period.

    C'mon coppers, let's see your puny little raygun take on some Detroit Iron!

    --
    O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
  25. So What Happens... by Ken+McE · · Score: 1

    The first time an officer fires this at a suspect vehicle, and hits the Cadillac dealership right in back of the suspect???

    1. Re:So What Happens... by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Nothing, because those vehicles are off and wouldn't be affected.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    2. Re:So What Happens... by AxeTheMax · · Score: 1

      Nothing, because those vehicles are off and wouldn't be affected.

      Wrong. They would be affected, since EM induction occurs anyway, whether things are on or off. What you mean is that the cars would not crash if they are not moving. You would probably find that you have to replace all the electronics and some of the electrical components before you could restart those cars however. And the dealership would likely also lose all its computers, communications, and anything else electronic on the site, whether on or off.

    3. Re:So What Happens... by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Wrong. They would be affected, since EM induction occurs anyway, whether things are on or off.

      Yes it occurs but since the computers are off they will not lock up. The only thing that happens when hit by this microwave is a current is induced which locks up the microprocessor, or WORST case, blows a fuse. It's not going to fry anything.

      What you mean is that the cars would not crash if they are not moving.

      No thats not what I meant. Even if it were moving it wouldn't crash. Its the same as running out of gas - you coast to a stop.

      And the dealership would likely also lose all its computers, communications, and anything else electronic on the site, whether on or off.

      No they wouldn't - nothing would happen at all. This is NOT an EMP, its a directed microwave pulse that induces a current on whatever is in the line of sight. Don't believe me? Then explain how the video camera that was filming what happened STAYED ON without even so much as a minor glitch??

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    4. Re:So What Happens... by AxeTheMax · · Score: 1

      I have to admit that I don't know how far the modern car depends on electronics when in motion. I'd like to see a study on what happens to cars if their electrics and electronics die (or get fried) suddenly at speed, till then I'll assume that there is potential for disaster.

      BTW, it is an electromagnetic device by definition; it induces current in a distant conductor. If it is adequately directed, that is one thing, but then the question was what else could be in that direction. I've no idea about the camera of course, maybe it was an old style hand cranked roll film camera immune to all EMP!

      (ps. not only is universal health care a good thing, it is socialist also.)

    5. Re:So What Happens... by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Yes thats right - they had to use a manual camera because of the devastating effects of the EMP gun. Sure.

      PPS: If you consider heath care socialist, then public schools and the court systems are also socialist? Don't confuse socialism with social programs - they are not the same thing.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  26. Probably won't kill anything by mbessey · · Score: 1

    Automotive electronics are fairly tough, because of the noisy environment they operate in. I would bet that in the typical case, the voltage pulse just confuses the computer, and/or latches a few inputs, causing it to shut down. You could likely start it right back up afterward.

    1. Re:Probably won't kill anything by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Automotive electronics are fairly tough, because of the noisy environment
      > they operate in.

      And the importance of reliability and fail-safe operation.

      > I would bet that in the typical case, the voltage pulse just confuses the
      > computer, and/or latches a few inputs, causing it to shut down.

      No, causing the computer to "reboot" itself. The engine might miss a couple of times, but that's all. They'll have to do permanent damage to reliably stop cars.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Probably won't kill anything by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      More likely the microprocessor would freeze than restart. You would see the engine stall and 'check engine' light on.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  27. Movie Plot Threat by BoydWaters · · Score: 1

    Terrorists stage a high-profile robbery to incite a police chase, which leads to the use of one of these EMP things, aimed at Mae West. Th' InterTubes go dark, civilization collapses.

  28. Muscle car market boom by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Suddenly there's a big market for pre-electronic-ignition muscle cars.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  29. extortion by bugi · · Score: 1

    Let me inspect your computer without a warrant or this EMP gun might just accidentally discharge in an inconvenient direction.

  30. More importantly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will it work on my neighbor's stereo?

  31. Nothing like a portable holocost. by CrepitousCurmudgeon · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Are these guys nuts or con men? They want to design a portable device to generate a directional EMP to help police stop fleeing cars. Point and click, off goes the suspect's car computer and the thing rolls to a stop. Whee! Sounds great, doesn't it? But physics and legal liabilities will stop them from getting this out of the lab. First, EMPs are not directional. So the first time a cop uses it, off goes his car and every car around him along with every bit of electronics in the cars. And every bit of electronics in the homes nearby and the stores and the hospitals, etc. Permanently. Thousands, maybe millions of dollars of damage and potentially many deaths. Let's not forget the folks with pacemakers, hearing aids or insulin pumps, either. The power required to make an EMP strong enough to disable a car isn't trivial either. It takes some huge high voltage capacitors or nasty explosives to manage the job. Los Alamos Labs can do this, but it's very expensive for each EMP produced. The car computers are pretty well shielded and located in protected areas in the car. So the EMP will have to be much stronger than what's needed to damage the computer. Almost all of the EMP will be reflected. Reflected only God knows where. Jerks.

    1. Re:Nothing like a portable holocost. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus all effected cars will loose power steering and most likely power brakes.

    2. Re:Nothing like a portable holocost. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Power steering works off a belt-driven pump. As long as the engine is turning enough to pressurize the pump you will have power steering. There are electronic units, but I don't know of any production cars that have them. I want one for my car because the belt-driven versions are power sapping and prone to failure.

    3. Re:Nothing like a portable holocost. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      EMP is not directional? Yeah. Tell that to the inventor of the lens, the flashlight, and the parabolic mirror!
      Because flashlights are just that: EMP guns in the visible light spectrum.

      Electromagnetic waves are just electromagnetic waves. It does not matter if they are microwaves, visible light, or something else.
      Of course you can focus, direct and channel them. Just like light.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    4. Re:Nothing like a portable holocost. by Criton · · Score: 1

      You loose power steering the moment the engine dies unless it's a manual and the clutch is still in gear which would cause the engine to still spin. As for power breaks they are almost always vacuum assist though sometimes are hydraulic.

    5. Re:Nothing like a portable holocost. by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Read the article - its not an EMP.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  32. Eureka by Pretzalzz · · Score: 1

    The bigger news is that the town of Eureka is real. I always thought it was fictional.

  33. Dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do believe this is a dupe. I seem to recall a article about this device from months and months ago. Someone who cares more can dig for it if they want to, I won't bother seeing as the search capability here on slashdot blows.

  34. Oudin coil by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Informative

    build one of these

    Use a mile of copper wire for the inside windings, and several turns of flexible copper pipe for the outer ones. Not directional, but it WILL disable a lot of the nearby electronics while in operation.

    1. Re:Oudin coil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too expensive though; The price for that much copper would be astronomical. I suppose that since it is HV, and the windings would experience the skin effect, one could just use copper coated plastic for the coils, and save some cash...

      However, that will still result in a very large device.

      Personally, I'd be more interested in a beat-frequency pair of resonant klystrons mounted under the dash. Far more accurate (Klystron beam is maser energy, and is thus aimable, rather than "lobbable", like the EMP system proposed), and could induce enough energy in the impacted target to melt metal.

      The idea is to use the beat frequency of two microwave klystron beams interacting with a metal surface to produce a reinforcement resonance wave (at a much lower frequency) within that material, causing runaway excitations.

      (Similar idea, you use two sound sources on a bell to get the bell to sympathetically resonate, by calibrating the beat frequency of the two sound sources to be reinforcing to the bell's natural frequency. Same idea here. You have 2 calibratable klystrons, which you slowly spread over the spectrum until you get feedback, which indicates that you have found the resonant frequency of the target. After that point, you start saturating the target in EM radiation until it either melts, or the car dies-- whichever happens first.)

      I dont think that such a system could be made "Portable" though-- unless you count a modified police wagon as portable.

    2. Re:Oudin coil by wagnerrp · · Score: 4, Informative

      Too expensive though; The price for that much copper would be astronomical.

      Nonsense. 1.5mi of high grade copper is as close as the nearest 1kft box of bulk CAT5.

    3. Re:Oudin coil by BoppreH · · Score: 1

      kft? I hope I got your units wrong, or else this is a new low for the S.I. standards.

  35. HOLY CRAP! by jeko · · Score: 4, Funny

    You mean I don't have to spend 100 bucks on bulbs, ammo and spackle every month?!

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
    1. Re:HOLY CRAP! by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 1

      Well, you don't have to...

  36. unsafe in the extreme. by timmarhy · · Score: 0
    I'm all for giving police more tools to use against crooks, however there is a glaring fault with this proposal - disabling the car also means loss of control. so if you have a police chase and the cops use this thing, suddenly the only thing driving the car is it's own momentum which makes it more dangerous then the criminal driving it since he atleast still wants to live, and so will try avoid on comming traffic.

    this is even worse then road spikes since taking out the tyres atleast slows the vehicle down a lot. this thing could only be used after the cops have blocked off traffic and there's no chance of the car running into anything.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:unsafe in the extreme. by fotbr · · Score: 1

      You'd still have brakes and steering ability, but you'd lose the power-assist when the engine quit. Loss of control is more likely from a spike strip and resulting blowouts & flat tires.

      Still think this is a bad idea though -- what happens when they trigger it at the "bad guy" and the guy in the next lane also gets his car's electronics fried? Yup. Lawsuit. Paid for by the taxpayers.

  37. Own your car, yeah baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who writes this mess?

    Only one of the world's largest industrial corporations - DUH!!! Ermm, well they *were* one of the largest. Then their sales dropped off. Wonder why. Hurray, I can buy a car that the government can control!!! Morons.

  38. Answers by mbessey · · Score: 1

    What happens when a person going 70mph suddenly loses control of their vehicle?

    They won't "lose control", exactly. It'll just get a lot harder to steer, and the car will slow down rapidly

    How accurate can that sort of gun be? Over what sort of angle and distance is it will effective?

    Not terribly accurate. The spread of the beam is determined by the antenna geometry and the frequency of the radiation. The range, of course, is subject to the power level. With a big antenna, and enough power, you could disable a car from miles away. Practically speaking, it'll probably need to be effective from 100 yards or so in order to be useful. I expect that the effective width of the "beam" would be several lanes wide at that range.

    Is there a way to shield the car with a faraday cage to prevent this sort of thing from happening?

    Not really. I mean, you *could do so*, but it'd be hard to make the car 100% shielded. It's probably 90% covered already, actually.

    And if not, wouldn't this just mess up the police cars?

    Well, the bulk of the radiation pattern will go forward, obviously. The backward-facing component can be made arbitrarily small.

    What's going to stop the police (or **AA) from "accidentally" frying your computer with one of these?

    Probable cause? The police can't just destroy property because they feel like it. Unless you're currently engaged in a crime, they wouldn't have a reason to try to kill your computer.

    1. Re:Answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      would you actually slow down? Your engine suddenly shutting off, which is basically what would happen if your ignition timing computer dies, would have the car slow down only slightly faster than putting your car into nutral while driving, no? It would basically be coasting to a stop, which while reasonably quickly, is nowhere near as quick as applying the brakes.

      (I'll admit that more than just the Ignition timing could be killed by this system. The electonic fuel injector should the car use that is also killed, and even the cruise control functionality of the ECU. Further the head unit, clock, GPS, electronic climate thermostat, and quite a bit more would be destroyed. Parts alone could have the potential to runs thousands of dollars, not to mention the labor costs, especially since labor is often charged by looking up the number of hours in a book, which would result in double counting time to perform some tasks like remove the dashboard trim which would be shared by multiple tasks. I would be very surprised if the total repair costs were not at minimum in the $5,000-$10,000 range)

  39. Secondary effect on criminals by horza · · Score: 1

    If it fails to stop the car at least it may knock out the onboard GPS. Then after they get lost and run out of petrol the police can just pick them up.

    Phillip.

  40. Real life is not like the movies by mbessey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your average high-speed chase participant is not a criminal mastermind. They're somebody who got caught doing something stupid, and panicked.

  41. EMP! by 424f54 · · Score: 1

    Don't worry about this. The cops can only get it after a 15 killstreak which is pretty hard to get for noobs..... or a random care package (oh no).

    1. Re:EMP! by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Most likely, suckNet will lose their lobby just as they're about to fire the EMP.

  42. Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by spineboy · · Score: 1

    I guess most of the EMP comes through the windows/body panel seams, etc, but building a faraday cage would stop that.
    Although most criminals are being stopped because they stole the car, and aren't usually preparing for such an event.

    I do like the idea of criminals preparing for a robbery with one of these in their get away car though; they can hit the cop car with it, or just a bunch of other random cars, making a roadblock.

    What we really need is the CARPOON (tm) an explosive fired harpoon from the cop car, designed to hook on to the fleeing car. If it happens to hit some meat - the TooBad (tm) clean up kit can be of use.

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
    1. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      No, becausde THIS IS NOT AN EMP GUN!!! There is NO SUCH THING!!!!

      Read the article. It's a microwave gun, and makes no mention of EMP. The microwave is transmitting energy, which probably induces a current on the cars electronics ground plane (the frame) which fries the electonics. It's NOT an EMP!

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    2. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by sabre86 · · Score: 1

      Since microwaves are electromagnetic waves, I presume you're disagreeing with the pulse part? The video, posted to Youtube by Eureka Aerospace, refers to it as an "electromagnetic pulse" and the demo seems to show a very short duration of operation is needed to shut down the car.

    3. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      It's not an EMP as in the same EMP that disrupts electronics from a nuclear blast. The device uses microwaves, which are an electromagnetic wave in the same way that light is an electromagnetic wave.

      I can pulse a light beam but no one would refer to this as an EMP.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    4. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "I can pulse a light beam but no one would refer to this as an EMP."

      I would because that's exactly what the fuck it is - a pulse in the electromagnetic spectrum.

      But then again my job requires such distinctions.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    5. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      When people refer to EMP, they're usually referring to that from a nuclear bomb (or an attempt to simulate the same).

      The fact that - on a pedantic level - you're right matters not one jot.

      There are lots of common expressions that have different meanings to what you'd obtain by analyzing their component words.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      So to you basically everything (tv, MRI, flashlight, microwaves) are EMP devices. When you label everything with such broad definitions they lose all practical meaning. I highly doubt your job requires yo to make such ridiculous distinctions, as this is not a distinction at all but ambiguation.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    7. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      I can give you a 400MW 550nm EMP to the face and you'd be dead. It's still dangerous at proper power levels, no matter HOW you put it, and it's STILL an EMP.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    8. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Are you not aware of a job in which you must distinguish between EMPs of varying wavelengths unless you achieve no results?

      Here's one - plant physiology. I'll leave the rest as an exercise for you to think about.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    9. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Well since you call everything a n EMP your job could vary from geneticist to watering plants.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    10. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      So what? You were arguing about flashlights. You really are a pedantic idiot.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    11. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      He probably argues all day about exactly what "plant" means. When he's done with that he nitpicks over the precise definition of "physiology".

      Professional pedant.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Except any physicist.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    13. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Really? How many physicists do you know that say they are going to tun on the EMP (instead of lights) or say they are going to EMP their lunch (instead of microwave)?

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    14. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      It's an EMP gun. The fact that it operates in a specific frequency is irrelevant. Light is also electromagnetic radiation, albeit with a higher energy - hence the different name.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    15. Re:Faraday cage around motor vs CARPOON!! by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      When people think of an EMP gun, they think of a device that emits an electomagnetic pulse similar to that one emitted by a nuclear blast. That type of gun does not exist, and this gun is not an EMP gun in that sense.

      This gun does NOT emit an EMP that destroys electronics. It emits a directional microwave signal (note that a true EMP is omnidirectional) that indices a current on metal objects in its path. In this demo that current tripped the onboard electronics on the car (or more likely just blew the fuse).

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  43. This isn't new a new idea at all. by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Eureka Aerospace can call it "HPEMS", but really it is just another HERF device, and it is certainly not a new thing. In fact you can buy kits from places like this and build your own.

    This is a High Energy Radio Frequency (HERF) gun not an EMP weapon, although the two are very similar in their final effects. EMP devices are omnidirectional and create a blanket pulse across a far larger portion of the EM spectrum. HERF affects a much smaller part of the spectrum, which allows the generating electronics to be tuned for higher efficiency and allowing the antennas to be directional. EMP devices are usually much higher power that fry the electronics, whereas HERF devices typically only cause disruption (requiring pulses to be sustained to prevent the normal function from restarting).

    It will shut down the engine computers of most modern cars, but cars with carburetors and mechanical based ignition systems (ie. distributors) and diesel engines without electronic injection will be unnafected. While this may affect most cars and trucks made since 1970, it does not include them all.

    To get to the power output that will stop a vehicle from distances usually seen in car chases would require a massive arrangement, capacitor bank, and a dedicated power supply to keep the HERF pulses sustained. This certainly will not be the kind of device that will be mounted on police cars any time soon.

    I have to also wonder how effective it would be in an actual car chase (assuming they could find as way of making it mobile). They would typically be shooting it at the rear of the car where the bodywork would act as shielding for the engine computer, and there is nothing to stop portions of the RF pulses reflecting off the metal bodywork and disabling chasing police cars.

    1. Re:This isn't new a new idea at all. by bartkusa · · Score: 1

      To get to the power output that will stop a vehicle from distances usually seen in car chases would require a massive arrangement, capacitor bank, and a dedicated power supply to keep the HERF pulses sustained. This certainly will not be the kind of device that will be mounted on police cars any time soon.

      I have to also wonder how effective it would be in an actual car chase (assuming they could find as way of making it mobile). They would typically be shooting it at the rear of the car where the bodywork would act as shielding for the engine computer, and there is nothing to stop portions of the RF pulses reflecting off the metal bodywork and disabling chasing police cars.

      Strap it to a police helicopter (or a police UAV, in 10 years).

    2. Re:This isn't new a new idea at all. by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Strap it to a police helicopter (or a police UAV, in 10 years).

      Sure, but this makes the distance much greater, requiring a yet larger arrangement (with larger capacitor bank and power supply). Police helicopters and UAVs really can't handle much of a payload. Also, even if you could get over the problem of the inverse square law with a pinpoint beam, there will still be the issue of RF bounce off the metal bodywork potentially affecting surrounding vehicles

    3. Re:This isn't new a new idea at all. by adaviel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I remember seeing one of these things on a thing like an R/C model car on a wire, dropped down from under the police car to run forward under the suspect's car and zap it from underneath. Crazy. I aso recall, I think, a HERF gun described by Winn Schwartau at DEFCON 7 that used explosives to move a conductor *really fast* through a magnetic field, generating a huge EMP. I have my doubts about using anything like this in a city - too much chance of getting innocent bystanders, traffic light controllers etc. Maybe they could mount one in a helicopter and zap someone fleeing on the highway.

    4. Re:This isn't new a new idea at all. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Most vehicles with distributors on the road today have electronic ignition. Breaker points were deprecated in favor of an ignitor transistor long before cars went computer-controlled; Chrysler started doing it in the sixties. If you manage to activate that transistor remotely, you can cause the coil to over-fire, with predictably negative results.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:This isn't new a new idea at all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their aim better be good, they could disable other cars. Who would be liable for damage if that happened?

    6. Re:This isn't new a new idea at all. by aXis100 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think this article really refers to cars with engine management computers, as opposed to "points" substitutes.

      The simple transistor ignitions are pretty robust units with high current BJT components in metal cans. By their very nature you still need quite a large base current to switch them, and I doubt a HERF gun would do this.

      Bu comparison it would take much less energy to disrupt an engine management computer.

  44. Re:"designed to disable a cars microprocessor syst by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    Don't taunt them . . . their next toy will be designed to disable the microprocessor between your ears. Why bother zapping the central nervous system of a human body, when you can design a gadget that turns criminals' brains into 7-Eleven microwaved burrito goo.

    When "Make" comes out with an issue of how to build these thingies, I will be encouraging the local teenage miscreants to stay on my lawn . . .

    . . . at least long enough to give them a lethal dose of that death ray.

    Do you think that the police might be concerned about piles of dead teenagers on my front lawn?

    In Detroit, probably not.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  45. EMP and atomic weapons. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in July 1962 the Starfish Prime test damaged electronics in Honolulu and New Zealand (approximately 1,300 kilometers away), fused 300 street lights on Oahu (Hawaii), set off about 100 burglar alarms, and caused the failure of a microwave repeating station on Kauai, which cut off the sturdy telephone system from the other Hawaiian islands.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_nuclear_explosion

    The idea of MAD is silly these days with regards to loss of human life. However indirectly, millions would parish who rely so much on modern technology should an atomic weapon be detonated at high altitude. In such an event, you would see a flash in the sky and then suddenly the power going out. You look to your cell phone only to find it's turned off. Cars humming along the highway slowly coast to a stop - engines no longer idling. Kit airplanes having to make an emergency landing without power (hope it's not at night). Basically, if it's got a micro chip, the gates get fried. Your fucked. Start walking pal.

    That is your EMP holocost. This new COP toy aint shit in comparison.

    1. Re:EMP and atomic weapons. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      My uncle who now a retired electrical engineer was shown around an Antanov transport jet a few years ago. His initial study and work in the 1950s involved valves instead of transistors but he was still amazed that the aircraft built in the 1970s used them everywhere. The only thing that made sense was EMP hardening, since the civilian aircraft is jut the military one with a different nameplate.
      As for landing aircraft without power at night, that's a drill that light aircraft pilots have to do on occasion to keep their licence. It came in handy for a friend that rented a plane with a dead alternator and had to make two landings without power in the same day. I'm no pilot so I've got no idea how the larger aircraft handle it, but I suspect badly.

    2. Re:EMP and atomic weapons. by chromatix · · Score: 1

      There are basically two classes of fixed-wing aircraft: those where the controls are physically connected to the flight surfaces, and those that are controlled entirely by hydraulic pressure and/or electronics. The latter is increasingly common in large airliners, but has been around for decades (a DC-10 was infamously controllable only by the wing-engine throttles after the tail engine shattered and took all the hydraulics with it - roughly half the people on board survived the "landing").

      Both of them are easily capable of landing after all engines fail at cruising altitude. Electric power, where necessary, is generated by a small windmill which extends from the body of the plane when needed.

      Only the directly-connected type - which (conservatively) includes pretty much anything up to about corporate-jet size or built before 1970 - will be able to continue flying in a controlled fashion if the electronics are destroyed by a large EMP. Some of the hydraulic indirect types will probably fly too, depending on how independent the controls are of EMP-sensitive electronics and whether a source of hydraulic pressure remains. You do *not* want to be on board *any* Airbus if an EMP goes off within range - they are entirely computer-controlled, and the pilot's joystick inputs are merely suggestions.

      Whether the navigation equipment will still work is, frankly, unlikely. The pilot will have to find his way to an airport the hard way.

      Going back to the original subject, all cars certified for road use have a physical link for steering (usually with power assistance these days, but this does nothing at highway speeds), and two braking systems that can be applied by human effort alone (both hand and foot brakes, though the footbrake is usually power-assisted too). That's enough to easily retain control in the face of total electrical failure and engine cutout.

      But it is worth noting that a lot of old cars have engines, with carburettors and distributors, that would not be affected by any kind of EMP. At worst, it would induce a momentary misfire and fry the radio. If you look in the right scrapyards, you can find Renault and Volvo engines that have outlived their vehicles and are robust enough to withstand quite a lot of boring and boosting... so serious criminals who put some thought and effort into preparing their crime can avoid being stopped by the EMP and still have a fast enough car to keep ahead of the chase. But high-speed chases are usually the result of insufficient planning anyway...

      --
      --- The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it ---
    3. Re:EMP and atomic weapons. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HEY .. shit for brains .. Talk about something you know .. and this is NOT a subject you know about.

      As for landing aircraft without power at night, that's a drill that light aircraft pilots have to do on occasion to keep their licence.

      ive had my private single engine land for at least 20 years now .. and have never had to demonstrate that skill to keep my license at all

      Second .. Do you even realize that an aircraft engine uses magnetos ( YES PLURAL .. TWO .. REDUNDANT SO THAT IT WILL STAY RUNNING ) .. the alternator is used ONLY to power the on board electronics .. if the alternator dies , the engine just keeps on purring.

      fucking idiot !!!

  46. points by codepunk · · Score: 1

    Time to bust out that old points distributor.

    --


    Got Code?
  47. emp facts by luther349 · · Score: 0

    a emp blast on a car will not damage the car. it will stall it. but the car will run again when the emp is shut down. only magentic storage like a pc hdd can be permenty whiped by one. cars dont use hard-drives thow normal rom chips for the cpu.it will disrupt not damage. emp blast on cars have been tested on the past guy blast car with emp gun car stalls car restarts and drives off. of course in a high speed chase stalling out the car for a few mints is all they need.in essence crashing that cars computer but once you restart the computer it can run again. you radio wont be effected btw. studys on this where done heavly on what would happon if there was a nucler blast and what the emp effect would actually be.of course most movies dnt use fact its just more drama to have every car die. also a old car whont be effected at all being they are not computer controlled.

  48. Fun to snipe at this gadget... by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    ...but nothing will actually come of it. It isn't practical.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  49. Overkill by LostCluster · · Score: 1

    "Good news, we've recovered your car and caught the person driving it. Bad news, we broke your car's computer in order to do it."

  50. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some form of this? I'm sorry, a computer telling another computer to stop functioning and an electro magnetic pulse weapon are not some form of each other in any universe!

  51. One big question... by joocemann · · Score: 1

    How much will they cost? How many cars do they plan to put them in? Does this make any economical sense as compared to the benefit?

  52. loss of power steering / brakes can be very bad an by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1, Troll

    loss of power steering / brakes can be very bad that is why stop sicks are better.

  53. They can't kill momentum. by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I just wonder what will happen when they use this on a car hurtling down suburban streets at 100+mph. Killing the electronics would presumably knock out handling and stability controls as well (no power steering, no assisted or anti-lock brakes, no traction control, no airbags). Sure they can stop the engine, but they can't stop momentum. They would just turn the car into an virtually uncontrollable hunk of metal hurtling down the road at 100+mph.... until it hits something.

    1. Re:They can't kill momentum. by cbhacking · · Score: 2, Informative

      Who does this myth keep popping up? Have people honestly never tried turning a car with the engine off?

      The difficulty of turning depends on how fast the car is moving. Stopped, and without power steering, sure it's a bitch. On the other hand, you're stopped, so who cares? Rolling even a little makes turning (with no power assists at all) much easier. By the time you hat 15 MPH or so, it honestly is just as easy as with the power steering still active. At freeway or police-chase speeds, you're completely fine.

      The brakes will get stiffer, yes. This doesn't happen instantly (at least, not in my experience), so the first time you step on the brake it'll still respond pretty well. As the residual pressure fades it will get harder, but seriously, drivers got by for a long time without braking assist; you just have to press harder. The force you would apply anyhow in a "slam on the brakes" situation would be more than sufficient anyhow.

      Yeah, anti-lock brakes and airbags will probably stop working. Does this mean I've been driving an "uncontrollable hunk of metal" for the last 5 years? Hell no! Sure you lose some safety features (assuming your car ever had them installed to begin with; mine didn't) but all you need to bring the car to a safe stop is brakes and a steering wheel. Both of those still use mechanical linkages that operate just fine on muscle power.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    2. Re:They can't kill momentum. by DrKnark · · Score: 1

      Nitpicking: Some modern cars (BMW has a few models for example) have completely electronic drive-by-wire systems. Wouldn't want to get hit with this thing while driving one of those :)

    3. Re:They can't kill momentum. by Geminii · · Score: 1

      Do not fret, citizen! Such things are a worry of the past, with the new fully electronic braking systems!

  54. blues brothers ref. by the_fat_kid · · Score: 3, Funny

    "use of lethal force has been approved."

    --
    -- Sig under construction...
    1. Re:blues brothers ref. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Use of improper blues brothers references has been disallowed.

      "Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of the Blues brothers has been approved."

      So it would probably go something like "Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of the smarmy guy driving the 1980s Mercedes diesel has been approved."

      But as a smarmy guy who'll be driving his 80s Mercedes diesel long after lesser vehicles have failed (apocalypse or not) I don't approve.

  55. They did not really think this out. by Criton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another issue is friendly fire you're going to be more likely to fire your fellow police car then the suspect's car. The HRF pulse also could accidentally or purposely reflected back at the source and damage radios,camera's and cell phones these are a lot less robust then an engine control computer. Last it's not exactly hard to defend against a little copper mesh and foil here and there and you can make a car almost invernable to anything less then a nuclear EMP.

    1. Re:They did not really think this out. by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

      totally agreed.

      faraday up the engine compartment. problem solved.

      I'm more worried about the damn cops hitting my house by mistake and frying all my electronics.

      This weapon should require rigorous certification and a college degree in physics to operate.

      This is not something you put into the hands of badge-bearing knuckle-draggers.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    2. Re:They did not really think this out. by tsjaikdus · · Score: 1

      Thought about faraday, too. It looks cool, but it reminds me of another device that is small already and existed since the dawn of the cold war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_pumped_flux_compression_generator

  56. Re:loss of power steering / brakes can be very bad by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    What is a "stop sick"?

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  57. Thats gotta be one HELLUVA battery... by MindPrison · · Score: 1

    ...and picture this:

    Cop1: There he is, fire'er up!

    Cop2: Steady....steeeaady.... BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!

    Cop1: Damn, you missed, good going - now our battery is depleted, and the chase is over!

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
  58. And GM wonders why they can't sell by gillbates · · Score: 1

    I grew up buying Chevies. So did my family. GM cars had practically become a religious tradition in our family until a few years ago.

    When On-Star appeared, my first thought was, "I'll only buy the lower end models without it". Then GM made it standard.

    I'm sorry, but I'm not going to BUY a car that helps big brother track my whereabouts and allows him to remotely disable my vehicle. The fact that they would do something like this sends a very strong, very clear message the company is anti-American. They just don't get this "freedom" thing the Bible-belt takes so seriously. And as if to add insult to injury, they're cars are now more expensive - in some cases by as much as $20k - than their Japanese counterparts.

    Who do they think they're kidding? Does it really surprise anyone that GM is going bankrupt?

    It's a FREEDOM thing, GM - you wouldn't understand.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:And GM wonders why they can't sell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but I'm not going to BUY a car that helps big brother track my whereabouts and allows him to remotely disable my vehicle.

      I guess you don't have a cellphone either, then?

      Anyway, you can disable OnStar without too much effort, if it really worries you.

    2. Re:And GM wonders why they can't sell by gillbates · · Score: 1

      Removing the battery from my cellphone is a trivial matter, which has the added benefit of keeping it from interrupting me during driving.

      --
      The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  59. Similar? by gillbates · · Score: 1

    Both systems disable the vehicle against the driver's consent.

    Imagine, for a moment, what would happen if a thief could - using OnStar - remotely disable your daughter's vehicle on a lonesome stretch of highway. He doesn't need an EMP gun with a giant capacitor bank when a tethered laptop will do.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  60. Flats at 100mph is better? by daemonenwind · · Score: 1

    Obviously you've never had 2-4 flat tires at 100mph.

    1. Re:Flats at 100mph is better? by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        I blew both front tires out in a Mustang Mach at >120mph in 1991, does that count? (hit a load of smallish scrap iron some idiot hadn't secured in the back of his truck on a 2L country road. I maintained control enough to get over to the shoulder and stop. )

        In a modern vehicle, with everything powered and no backup, I'd much rather lose a couple tires than have the entire fscking vehicle go completely dead on me at high speed. That may be a matter of opinion, but I know which option I'd take, given a choice.

        Some of these modern SUVs would likely be impossible to control even at low speed if the entire engine/electronics package went out. Shudder. No thanks. The fewer components between me and the tires, the better. Sometimes simple is the best way to design vehicles. No amount of mechanical/electronic engineering is going to eliminate human stupidity or human ingenuity at the controls of anything that humans build.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  61. Not many cops want them by Myrcutio · · Score: 1

    See, thing about tasers, in order to be issued one you have to agree to be tazed. Most cops are pretty much fine just shooting a fleeing suspect in the leg rather than be tazed once a year. As they say, you don't give em a gun so they can chase ya.

  62. As usual ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... no one has considered that not all vehicles are cars. The first time this device disables a motorcycle which is leaned into a turn, whether or not the bike was the target, there will likely be a dead or severely injured motorcyclist whose family will win the lawsuit jackpot.

  63. Viper by tru3ntropy · · Score: 1

    Does any one else remember that tv series Viper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viper_(TV_series)?

    --
    In Google we trust.
    1. Re:Viper by KulSeran · · Score: 1

      THAT sir, was the first thing I thought of when i read this headline. I remember that car having an EMP gun that it used to catch cars as well.

  64. Re:loss of power steering / brakes can be very bad by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 1

    Here you go.

  65. Because the engine is the only thing with a chip by nick_davison · · Score: 1

    The good news is the EMP will magically avoid trashing people's smart phones. It'll leave the computers, digital cameras, etc. in perfect working order. Best of all, it absolutely will not kill the person with a pacemaker.

    And they will never, ever, miss, doing all that damage to another motorist, knocking out the street lights the car was passing through and causing other accidents or hitting a building and fragging the poor bystanding company's network.

  66. we'll never see drive-by-wire by r00t · · Score: 1

    This kills an opportunity to improve vehicles.

    We've had fly-by-wire for ages. It's used in all the giant passenger jets, and in all the modern figter planes. It's wonderful.

    Drive-by-wire would let us get rid of the steering column. That improves layout under the hood and is a bit safer even than a collapsable steering column.

    It would have beaten traditional steering for reliability if implemented with redundancy. An EMP kills **all** the redundant devices at once.

  67. If it's 20 years try a mature attitute instead by dbIII · · Score: 1

    OK then - that's a drill that light aircraft pilots have to do on occasion to keep their licence IN AUSTRALIA - landing without lights, manually lowering gear and whatever else uses electricity. I don't know what happens where you are or even if you do.
    So much for the first insult, plain ignorant anger.

    Second thing - lights, lowering and raising gear, radio etc run from the battery - how on earth do you think I was talking about the engine when cars will also run if the battery is flat? So much for the second insult, I can't help it if you read bullshit that doesn't exist into things.
    I don't know much about this stuff but I know what I've seen and are way off the mark there with your petty bullying insults.

  68. Sweet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now it'll be even easier to carjack and rob armored cars.

  69. USAF seeks airborne car-zapper by drew30319 · · Score: 1
    The contrarian in me read TFA and eventually found the source article:

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2010/01/usaf-seeks-airborne-car-zapper.html

    Apparently it's the Air Force that's interested in such a device, which would be used from the air, not via police car.

    "The Air Force Air Armament Center (AAC), 308th Armament Systems Wing, Rapid Acquisition Cell is seeking information that could lead to development of an air-delivered capability to disable moving ground vehicles while minimizing harm to occupants. Development schedule is expected to be a critical factor in any potential development effort, so responses should focus on feasibility and maturity of the key technologies. Responses should include candidate integration concepts which take maximum advantage of existing infrastructure in order to minimize cost and development time."

    And since I bothered posting I guess I'll add that the comparison to the On-Star solution is bizarre. Obviously the On-Star approach has nothing to do with EMP but instead is a command sent to the on-board computer via satellite. I suppose it's comparable in that both solutions involve things above us adversely affecting motor vehicles (and to that extent I guess it's also like a traffic jam caused by drivers looking at the Goodyear blimp).

    --
    JAGga.me ----> Producing video games addressing emotional health and wellness issues affecting teens.
  70. Remember "Don't Taze Me Bro"? by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

    In "don't taze me bro", the kid might have been making scene and being disruptive, but that just shows that the cops are willing to use the Tazer on a kid who is just making a scene and being disruptive.

  71. lol by Charliemopps · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How long do you think it will take for some disgruntled cop to point one of these at his ex-wives plane on take-off?

  72. Hell, this isn't even new to /. by dlenmn · · Score: 1
  73. What bullshit by ZuchinniOne · · Score: 1

    The argument that this is being designed for car chases is complete BS. And while the technology is very cool, the potential for abuse is tremendous.

  74. Well F* them by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    Good luck trying this on me my twin Weber 40DCOEs. They can throw all the EMP at my all alloy twin cam hemi and I expect I will keep running just fine thank you very much. Computers don't belong in cars!

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  75. Stolen Car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if the car was stolen. EMP, will damage the owners property.

  76. Summary sucks ala On-Star by BLKMGK · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually READ the linked article on On-Star before trying to summarize it please! On-Star doesn't "beam" a signal down from a satellite - it uses CELL PHONE technology. The only satellite involved in that scenario is the ones in the sky enabling the GPS. Unlike in some crap movies GPS is actually ONE-WAY and you're not beaming your location or anything else back UP. They're simply querying the GPS to find out the current location of the vehicle via cell phone - nothing else. CSI TV technology this ain't.

    Also - if you READ the article the signal sent to the On-Star simply tells it to not START the next time the thief tries to use it. It does NOT cripple the computer, it does not degrade the performance, it simply tells the computer not to restart. "Block the ignition on the next restart" is that NOT clear enough? REstart as in the NEXT time someone turns the key for a start. So if it's running this article doesn't say squat about turning it off remotely.

    On-Star has plenty of things going for it that I don't like and wouldn't want in my car - to include at one point the ability for law enforcement to remotely eavesdrop on you - so you really don't have to make up crazy things and lose credibility.

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  77. Will it kill Tasers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please don't EMP me, bro!

  78. Drop it from a plane by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Which is roughly the only way to get my car to break any speed limit :)

    Still I think it is all a bit silly. I can stop any car with just a pistol, that most cops carry already. 1 stop sign, after that, your rights to continue breathing are temporarily suspended.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  79. I approve by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    But the more realistic measures of getting your tires punctured or your car pushed off the road are no picnic either.

    Still, it says a lot about the GP that he is glad his car can run from the cops. Mine has no need to. And if people think carjackers are going to use it... then you are to stupid to function. What would a carjacker want with a car that can't move anymore?

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  80. Cry me a river by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    So now we got to worry about a tool to stop criminals because it might kill them. Better recall police guns then, people could get hurt if you shoot them.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  81. If you get tired of the anti-cop sentiment by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    If you get tired of the anti-cop sentiment then you have to block all the teen boys who want to watch the world burn.

    This system is only of use to cops to stop people trying to evade arrest. They are NOT going to use it to pull you over for a drink driving test, JUST as they do NOT puncture your tires with a nail-mat at this point in time.

    But if it stops some idiot from speeding through a residential area not caring who he/she kills in their maddness, then I don't care if they MIGHT be killed when the police tries to stop them. In fact, I don't understand why they don't just shoot the drivers. The bleeding hearts have gone out of control.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  82. BS by PJ6 · · Score: 1

    I know of only one practical device that disabled a car in this manner, developed more than 10 years ago - it was a little sled with a wire that fired forward from underneath a cruiser to slide under a fleeing vehicle. The designers of the device specifically noted that this was the only way you could disable a car with EMP, because it is extremely difficult to get a pulse to punch through the car's metal to the bits that matter.

    So who is this guy who's apparently made a major technological breakthrough? Some Joe Blow in a garage who apparently claims that in 5 years we will have hand-held EMP rifles. Reporters don't know crap about engineering - I call bullshit.

  83. Stop them with legislation by Marrow · · Score: 1

    Make a date when by all cars and trucks are requires to have a "slow down"
    chip in their computer. Not to stop the car, but more of a governor to make
    30mph the top speed for a car in that area. A audible warning lets the driver
    know the governor is about to go into effect.

    Authorized vehicles would have the governor disabled.

    They could even implement the system in school zones.

  84. Carburetor for the win by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

    Carburetors: Not just for bongs anymore.

    --
    Furries make the internet go.
  85. Microwave Jam by Matheus · · Score: 1

    I can't believe no one has mentioned Knight Rider yet... "KITT! Try using microwave jam to stop their vehicle!"

    Bah. I bet this one won't even make the cool sound!

  86. Real background information to "override" on-star. by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    It's been some while I've been installing these things in an car; but there are 3 types of alarm systems and 3 types of anti-carjack systems.

    All of these systems include a box with a relay or circuit breaking off the key ignition towards the computer and a box shutting off the gasoline supply when the alarm or carjack system is armed. This box has a dozen of wires, colorcoded but impossible to "hack" into without knowing what you'd be doing.

    The Onstar system can easy be defeated by removing the SIM card; although; it would also defeat the real purpose of the system (mostly used by companies) and that's CARJACKING.

    In Belgium we call these VV1, VV2 and VV3 for the alarm systems and CJ0, CJ1 and CJ2 for carjacking systems.

    • VV1: Anti thefth system which activates automatically after a few seconds when the engine stops running, so the car won't be left alone unattended.
    • VV2: The same as VV1 but always includes perimetric sensors which activate after leaving the car.
    • VV3: The same as VV1 & VV2 but with an alarm for perimetric and volumetric sensors

    Carjacking systems, alike on-star:

    • CJ0: This protection level has a sat receiver/transmitter giving the exact location of the car.
    • CJ1: The driver needs to authorize with a code or card before allowing the car to leave. If you'd leave with the car without authorization, the direction lights will start flashing, claxon will start buzzing and the engine stops.
    • CJ2: (Alike On-star) A combination of CJ0 and CJ1, protecting more expensive cars. Through sat the cars can be localized fast and can be disabled from distance. If the engine is not running, the terminal will react with shocks and will control any movements by satelite. The owner will be contacted when the car gets moved or towed away.

    None of these systems got an easy "override" button and are mostly built in deep under the dashboard -or- under the hood. The only thing you can do is remove the sim card or stop paying your subscription if you value your privacy over the value of your car. Yet, a nice thing to know ; The on-star system will not listen to conversations, UNLESS the car is on the move without authorization; so there is no immediate privacy risk of on-star listening with the system.

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  87. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A magnetic pulse will disable a pacemaker and/or defibrillator. For those of us who are pacemaker dependent (It works all the time to replace the electrical system of the heart (or something)) if it shuts down so does the the wearer of the device - it's called DEATH. No way around it if you are pacemaker dependent and this device hits you - bye, bye. Can'r believe they would allow such a device to be marketed.

  88. Don't forget the environment!!!!! by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    Use a hammer instead .. throw it and yell "FIRE IN THE HOLE" .. works every time to turn off your light without any environmental impact.

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  89. If this works, then Iran can shut us down by mesocyclone · · Score: 1

    If cars are this susceptible to microwave energy, then Iran will shortly have the ability to shut down much of our country, in an instant.

    Exo-atmospheric nuclear EMP is easy to generate if you have a nuke (even a small one, although the area affected would be somewhat less) and can put it in a low orbit satellite. Iran has the latter (and is about to launch a couple more) and will soon have the former. Their nukes can be small (they have implosion technology).

    They have also been testing an alternate delivery system - a SCUD launch with the warhead detected at the top of the trajectory - EMP is the only explanation for such tests.

    So, if they are nutty enough (and do you want to bet your survival on the sanity of President ImANutJob?), they can kill tens of millions of Americans, with no warning at all. They can orbit a nuke in a satellite, to be detonated on command. Or, they could launch a few SCUDs from merchant ships hundreds of miles off our shores.

    Imagine a US where a large area (say, 1000mi in diameter) suddenly has a destroyed electrical transmissions system,almost all telecoms down, and almost all vehicles unusable. It's not a pretty thought.

    See US Gov report at http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf (pdf)

    --

    The only good weather is bad weather.

  90. http://www.paramounthotel.vn by tanict106 · · Score: 0
  91. Also good for... by kobiashi+maru · · Score: 1

    if the police officer needs to erase the *you know* off his hard drive, he can do it without going to the trouble of dragging it into the trash.

  92. Is this a weapon? by bobdinsf · · Score: 1

    I've heard conspiracy theories that EMP can be used to bring down airplanes to assasinate the occupants. Maybe I should have believed those theories.

  93. Now we understand the second condition. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation."

  94. Disabling a car by ps2os2 · · Score: 0

    Disabling a car is a decent idea. One that should have come to reality years ago (before the police video camera and TV looking on).

    One issue I have with this though. We have enough rogue cops tasering old ladies. Since the courts seems to have looked the other way I wonder how many stories we are going to get with cops using this for catching their wives boyfriends while fleeing?
    Too bad we cannot trust cops to use good judgement anymore.