Slashdot Mirror


Apple's "iPad" Out In the Open

Reader oxide7 is one of the many to note that the heaviest speculation is mostly over (still waiting on the price, though) about Apple's anticipated new device (though there are surely plenty of questions about the device's hardware capabilities and the scope of its software and content marketplace): "At an event in San Francisco Apple released its anticipated iPad.'[It's] Way better than a laptop, way better then a phone. You can turn it any way you want. To see the whole page is phenomenal,' said Jobs." The (0.5") skinny: 1.5 lbs, multitouch, up to 64GB of flash, 9.7" screen, and a 1Ghz "Apple A4" chip (more about the A4 in Engadget's developing story). The iPad is closer in concept to an expanded iPhone (OS and all) than a miniaturized laptop, though it doesn't have quite as much connectivity as you might expect, with no 3G connection built in. (You'll have to make do with 802.11n, Bluetooth, and tethering.) Live coverage is ongoing at gdgt live, Engadget, and Gizmodo, as well as various others. Update by timothy, 19:58 GMT: Got the 3G part wrong; 3G is indeed an option. Prices run from $499 (16GB flash, WiFi but no 3G) to $829 (WiFi and 3G, 64GB flash). Should start shipping in 60 days (WiFi only), in 90 days for 3G. Surprsingly, no built-in camera.

156 of 1,713 comments (clear)

  1. No flash support by vivek7006 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Which means no hulu.com, espn360.com or fancast.com. Somehow Mr. Jobs is touting this as a feature.

    1. Re:No flash support by mdm-adph · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yep, this picture (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0128-rm-eng.jpg) pretty much spells it out.

      The fact that they didn't even try to hide this during their usually precise demo of the product is surprising.

      --
      It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
    2. Re:No flash support by Enderandrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you can free TV shows and movies streaming over Flash, why buy them on iTunes?

      I don't expect Flash on this or the iPhone anytime soon.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    3. Re:No flash support by jfenwick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is a feature because it means an insecure plugin that security experts have said will cause more remote exploits than any other software this year is banned from the OS. Webkit already supports HTML 5. Those sites need to upgrade their technology if they don't want to endanger their customers.

    4. Re:No flash support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I rather have Apple kill Flash. Flash is a piece of shit. HTML5 is the future.

    5. Re:No flash support by pydev · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Flash can be made completely secure by sandboxing it at the OS level. If iPhone can't do it, it's a problem with its OS, not with Flash.

    6. Re:No flash support by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Funny

      No one really bitches about not having it on the phone, except the people who scream 'I'm not buying because it doesn't do flash!!'

      So let me get this straight: No one is complaining about this, except for the people who are?

      Thanks for the insight man. You have any ideas on how to solve this whole "economy" thing?

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    7. Re:No flash support by LaminatorX · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think it likely has as much to do with the impact of Flash's unquenchable thirst for CPU cycles on battery life.

    8. Re:No flash support by onefriedrice · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Will Adobe even be invited on board to write a plugin?

      Hopefully not. I don't know of any products with worse security records than Acrobat Reader and Flash. It's time for Flash to just go away. Fortunately, unlike FF, Safari does support h.264 which will surely be supported by hulu et al. eventually.

      --
      This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
    9. Re:No flash support by jo_ham · · Score: 5, Informative

      Youtube serves up an H.264 version of the video to your iPhone. Not all videos are converted yet (google is massively numbercrunching behind the scenes to convert older ones). If the phone meets a video with no H.264 version it just says "cannot display movie at this time" or something like that.

      You can use ClickToFlash on Safari in 10.6 to tell the Youtube site to serve the H.264 iPhone version to your browser instead of the flash version too - much nicer.

    10. Re:No flash support by Larry+Lightbulb · · Score: 4, Funny

      And if it had wheels you could drive it around. It's not replacing notebooks, it's something different.

    11. Re:No flash support by quadelirus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Flash and Silverlight won't see the inside of this box because they are both proprietary and HTML 5 can do everything flash or silverlight can do in a standards based way (just ask google voice). Also Flash and Silverlight are good attack vectors--why would Apple want a 3rd party responsible for the security of the product when HTML 5 is going to replace the other technologies anyway.

    12. Re:No flash support by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Flash video nowadays is H.264. (Older Flash video is H.263.) If Flash Player can't hardware-accelerate H.264 video playback, that's a defect in Flash Player.

      Yes, it's a defect in the Flash player, and it's one of the reasons why using Flash video players might not be a great idea if you have a viable alternative.

      As far as DRM, I'm sure Apple would be willing to work with studios to make sure their content is protected if it meant they could get free (ad-supported) streaming to the iPad and Apple TV.

    13. Re:No flash support by MistrBlank · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually it's worse, because there are movies that I know are new videos and are in h.264 format and are NOT being served to the iPhone.

      I'm surprised more coverage hasn't been brought to bear on this.

    14. Re:No flash support by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 5, Funny

      I rather have Apple kill Flash.

      If you're going to wish for something unrealistic and beyond their power, at least shoot for world peace.

    15. Re:No flash support by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Informative

      I highly doubt Hulu or anyone else will ever support H264.

      You mean except for the fact that Hulu currently does use H.264? Same with youtube?

      From Hulu's about page:

      Leveraging the H.264 capability of the new Flash Player

    16. Re:No flash support by A12m0v · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Flash is proprietary I'd like to see it fade into oblivion. Maybe the iPhone and iPad will be what it takes to get people considering HTML5 instead of Flash.
      YouTube now has an HTML5 beta, and some other streaming sites as well.

      --
      GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    17. Re:No flash support by bonch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      YouTube and Vimeo already support it. Replacing Flash is much more than a "marginal enhancement."

      But hey, you're welcome to live in 1999 forever and stick with HTML4. It's what Adobe wants.

    18. Re:No flash support by naz404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow. Like the iPhone and OSX aren't proprietary. Perhaps you'd like to see those fade into Oblivion too?

    19. Re:No flash support by MojoRilla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You can run plugins in a sandbox in Chrome. Use the --safe-plugins command line switch.

    20. Re:No flash support by cowscows · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a big difference between the display device and the content.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    21. Re:No flash support by MBGMorden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wait a minute. You mean that people who don't like particular features or limitations of a product probably won't buy it?

      You might be onto something here. All those stupid customers at the drive through who keep driving off because you wouldn't leave the onions off their burger probably weren't going to buy it anyways!

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    22. Re:No flash support by Swampash · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Flash is the number-one cause of application crashes on OS X, and it's outside Apple's control. No way Flash is going to be supported by Iphone or Ipad.

    23. Re:No flash support by tgd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      HTML5 is nice, but if you think it can do 1% of the things Silverlight can do, you're not an engineer or have never actually looked at Silverlight.

    24. Re:No flash support by DangerFace · · Score: 4, Informative

      Dude, H.264 is proprietary, and that's what Apple want as part of the HTML5 specs. Also, it's what the Youtube et al HTML5 betas are running.

    25. Re:No flash support by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > and the limited iphone style OS (why not full mac OS).

      Because at this point Apple would like nothing better than to find a way to discontinue OS X. The huge revenue stream they unleashed with the App Store has distorted everything at Apple. OS X on the desktop doesn't give Apple a cut of every app sold; so all new products are going to be in the iPhone development model. Hence this new product, which COULD have run a more open operating system and supported a lot of traditional OS X applications (add ARM to the fat binaries and ship) is instead an iPod/iPhone with a bigger display.

      Since they will sell a ton of these shiny iTurds expect them to take it as a green light for the next step and move the closed Nintendo/Cellphone OS model to the all in one desktops next. If that works the bottom end of the laptops will go next.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    26. Re:No flash support by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, we watch FILMS! "Movies" are for the unwashed masses.

      Fin

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    27. Re:No flash support by twisty7867 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I just don't get all the pro-HTML5 hype. HTML5 is going to be no different than any previous version of HTML... eventually bastardized by each browser vendor in the name of "innovation". Flash is successful today because of it's proprietary nature. Every browser renders Flash using a single vendor's engine (FOSS alternatives execpted, they're certainly an edge case). I realize that proprietary software is a practical or philosophical problem for some folks, but the reality of the matter is that it's a necessity for consistent content rendering. Flash isn't present on the iPhone because you wouldn't need the App Store to deliver half the janky 99-cent games that people are buying (and sending 29 cents per to Apple). Apple won't ever allow Flash (or Silverlight or proper HTML5) on these devices unless customers just don't buy them otherwise.

  2. What is the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

    1. Re:What is the point? by eln · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's more than just an iPod touch that won't fit in your pocket...it's also an underpowered netbook with no keyboard. It's the worst of both worlds!

    2. Re:What is the point? by zstlaw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's more than just an iPod touch that won't fit in your pocket...it's also an underpowered netbook with no keyboard. It's the worst of both worlds!

      No no no! It has a faster processor than the iTouch, better resolution that iPhone, and some nifty new features to make up for the lack of keyboard... Iit is more like a Nexus One that won't fit in your pocket!

    3. Re:What is the point? by arose · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I want to see this picture, but with a scratched iPad in place of the netbook.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    4. Re:What is the point? by VoiceInTheDesert · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not only is just a big iPod touch...it's been done before by someone else.

      http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/index.html?country=mz&lang=en

      Archos has had these little multi-media things going for a couple years now. That one isn't quite as big as the iPad and it's probably short a few features here and there on things like Multi-touch...but it has wifi, hd video, hd sound..and it costs 350 instead of (what I'm hearing) 800 for this thing.

      It wouldn't be an Apple product if it didn't cost way more than comprable hardware though.

    5. Re:What is the point? by syousef · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's more than just an iPod touch that won't fit in your pocket...it's also an underpowered netbook with no keyboard. It's the worst of both worlds!

      Steve Jobs will be releasing the new iPants in the next couple of months. The iPants have iPockets that will fit an iPad. If you don't own a pair you won't be iCool anymore, so better save up those iPennies.

      Apple has always released crippled products and insisted that they were superior. You had to wait till iPhone 3.0 to have MMS and buy a 3rd party app (not available at release) to record video. These are things that have been standard in phones for 5 years. Apple's genius is not the product, it's the marketing which seems to catch out every wannabe geek and fashion victim.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    6. Re:What is the point? by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They did the brilliant thing... supporting bluetooth tethering. That means it doesn't need either Verizon or ATT, as long as you have a phone that can deliver data via a bluetooth tether, just get the two close together and you have a mobile internet device. Now, if you have a data plan you probably already have something quite close to the iPad already on your phone, but that's beside the point. Apple doesn't really care if something else can do what it's new product does, they will simply do it with more shine and win marketshare with mindshare.

    7. Re:What is the point? by doconnor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are lots of things that a iPod Touch with a larger screen would be useful for, like web browsing, book reading and movie watching.

    8. Re:What is the point? by Piquan · · Score: 3, Informative

      I wonder if it could work with a Bluetooth keyboard

      There's a dockable keyboard.

    9. Re:What is the point? by natehoy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, there you go then. If you work on something that doesn't require massive amounts of horsepower, you could just have your own very portable computer to take wherever you want to go.

      Yes, a netbook will be cheaper, more durable, more powerful, etc. But there's a lot of appeal to a flat unit you can use like a clipboard while resting back in your favorite lounge chair or sitting up in bed.

      There will be a market for this. I probably won't be part of it, but mostly on price and lack of flexibility.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    10. Re:What is the point? by H0p313ss · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

      Depends on how you spin it. I look at it as an eBook reader with an awesome web browser, GPS, WiFi, 3G, local storage, a MP3 player and access to the thousands of apps in the app store. Which, personally, is exactly what I've been waiting for to hit the market to handle my eBook and casual browsing needs. I'm sure I'm not alone here.

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    11. Re:What is the point? by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hmmm. The thing about the iPod is that the killer features is the integration of iPod/iTunes/iTunes store. The devices are nice of course, but each part of this triangle has significant limitations.

      The key is that they all work together to support use cases that consumers find convenient and valuable. That's why "iPod Killers" never kill. You have to get all three pieces, and that is hard especially the store end of things.

      Now Amazon nailed it with the Kindle. The Kindle is not the best eBook reader, but Amazon + WhisperNet + Kindle work together better than anything anybody had ever seen before. You can make a better eBook reader, but what you really have to do is to make sure that whole source to use chain has no serious mistakes in it (like not having enough books to sell, having lousy battery life, or having DRM so restrictive it interferes with the primary use of the devices).

      So you can't look at this device and say "meh", because it has never been the best device that wins. It's the affordable looking system that offers a convenient solution for something consumers value that wins.

      You're going to have to see the whole thing in action to know whether this is "meh" or not. I suspect it may be, but I'm not shorting Apple stock yet.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    12. Re:What is the point? by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Steve Jobs: "a Netbook is the worst of both worlds! [it only lasts for 10 hours and doesn't fit in your pocket] however our iPad is the best of both worlds, it lasts 10 hours and won't fit in your pocket!"

      Why would anyone want an iPad if they already have a smartphone, when they can buy a kindle (for less) to read books, arguably the only thing it does better than a smartphone?

      But don't worry, soon there will be about 4.5 million brainwashed followers out there handcuffed to their iPad wondering how they lived without the thing they had no practical use for before they bought it.

    13. Re:What is the point? by elnyka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

      Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I was expecting the thing to have a different take on ebook readers. I'll stick to a kindle/nook with its eink and the smaller profile..

      I'd actually go for an iPad to tell you the truth. I have a kindle and I like it... for what it is. But I have a ton of PDFs and videocasts (all work-related) that I can't use on my kindle. All that stuff I have to carry on burned DVDs and thumb drives. Having them, and watching them in one of these thingies would be so convenient.

      Considering that I paid over $300 for my kindle when it came out, I think this is a well-priced gadget... for what it is. Whether I can afford to for almost $500 right now for one of them, though, that's another thing :)

    14. Re:What is the point? by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not with an LCD screen it's not an eReader. There's a world of difference between an eInk display and a backlit LCD. The LCD can do so much more, so much better, but eInk still takes the cake for readability and power consumption. Which is why the Kindle goes 2 weeks on a charge vs 10 hours.

      I did notice that they compared the $500 (min) iPad to the $280 Kindle, instead of the $489 Kindle DX. That's natural, as the DX has the exact same size screen (9.7") as the iPad, so the comparison wouldn't be quite as stark.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    15. Re:What is the point? by exomondo · · Score: 4, Informative

      better resolution that iPhone

      Actually it has a WORSE resolution than the iPhone (132ppi Vs 163ppi), the screen is just bigger, but not as sharp.

    16. Re:What is the point? by gknoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a large segment of the book reading public that do not care about battery consumption. They read at home or where there are power outlets. For them, LCD is superior to eInk in just about every way.

      Except, e-ink displays are reported to be easier on the eyes to read, because they are a reflective surface and not an illuminated one.

      Having read books on my computer screen, the only advantage is that it scrolls relatively smoothly. Otherwise, my eyes felt like they'd been sucked out Gollumn-style after 4 hours of reading. I'd much rather read on an e-ink display, even if I were near an outlet. I am also unlikely to try and read in the dark, where an LCD screen would be more visible.

    17. Re:What is the point? by Eil · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hmmm. The thing about the iPod is that the killer features is the integration of iPod/iTunes/iTunes store. The devices are nice of course, but each part of this triangle has significant limitations.

      The key is that they all work together to support use cases that consumers find convenient and valuable. That's why "iPod Killers" never kill. You have to get all three pieces, and that is hard especially the store end of things.

      I got an iPod Touch right after Christmas (to replace my Nokia N800) and the iTunes integration is the thing that drives me the most crazy about it. I bought the device under the assumption that I would be able to use it to easily download, manage, and listen to podcasts. This was my first real Apple product and after having heard how cool the iPhone was and how easy Apple makes everything, I figured I couldn't go wrong.

      To listen to podcasts on the N800, all I had to do was run gPodder. It automatically checked for new episodes, downloaded them, and kept track of which ones were new, which ones were downloaded, which ones I've already listened to, and which ones have been deleted. Very slick. Too bad the N800 kinda sucked for just about anything else.

      After I got my iPod Touch, and after I had fiddled with the pinch zooming, inertial interface widgets, and slick web browser, I eventually discover that there's no podcast manager at all. And further investigation revealed that Apple won't allow a third-party one because they claimed it would compete with iTunes. The problem is, iTunes on the iPhone OS really, really sucks for listening to podcasts. You can only download podcasts that happen to be in the iTunes store. There's no way to just enter an RSS feed. There are no automatic updates and no automatic downloads, you're forced to memorize which episodes you've listened to and you have to download each episode one at a time. The only way to listen to podcasts that aren't in the iTunes store is to sync the device with a desktop computer running the full-blown version of iTunes. The iPod Touch is a portable wifi-enabled computer in its own right, I shouldn't have to sync it with fucking anything just to get content onto it. I have no computers that iTunes will run on, and of course, Apple encrypts communications to and from the device so no open-source software can connect to it either.

      Convenient and valuable? Feh, I say.

    18. Re:What is the point? by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I understand. I happen to hate the iTunes store. I much prefer Amazon's MP3 download service. It meets my needs. I don't much care for the way iTunes wants to steer me to the latest episode of popular TV shows. I have no interest in that, and I always feel like I'm fighting the software to get it to do what I want.

      But one thing I've learned after decades in this business is that you can't design products around your own preferences. I've seen that approach fail time and time again. I've even seen the same guys make the same mistake more than once.

      It doesn't matter that I hate the iTunes store. Steve Jobs would be an idiot to design products that cater to people like me, because we're lousy, cranky, critical customers and cheapskates besides.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    19. Re:What is the point? by joost · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem is, iTunes on the iPhone OS really, really sucks for listening to podcasts. You can only download podcasts that happen to be in the iTunes store. There's no way to just enter an RSS feed.

      Advanced > Subscribe to podcast... > enter RSS url.

      Next question?

    20. Re:What is the point? by tftp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have him email it to you. Or FTP it somewhere. There's plenty of ways to get things on your iphone/touch without syncing.

      It is mighty stupid to have to email a multi-megabyte file when you hold the phone in one hand and the USB cable in another. On my planet such a product would be reviewed as "poorly done."

    21. Re:What is the point? by Stray7Xi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For them, LCD is superior to eInk in just about every way

      For them, LCD is superior to eInk in just about every way except for reading. You obviously haven't used eInk. It's like advertising HD movies on a SD screen, no one can tell the difference until they actually try it.

    22. Re:What is the point? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Haven't we had tablets for years already though? I remember seeing them in the mid 90s. Sure, this is thinner and lighter and maybe the interface is better than Microsoft's tablet OS but is that really going to sell it?

      The fact that you can't run more than one app at a time means it can't really be used as a computer: who would settle for having to save their document, quit the word processor, load their browser, load a bookmark, makes some research notes (presumably on paper since you can't run a note taking app), quit the browser, load the wp back up and re-open the document? It's not even a very effective clipboard replacement because you can't just flick between different pages as your workflow requires.

      So you can't really do much desktop computing on it. It's too big to fit in your pocket like a smartphone. In fact it's too big to easily type on like you can with a smartphone too, since your thumb can't reach all the keys but you still need to hold it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    23. Re:What is the point? by fsiefken · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hi Joost, you confuse the iTunes for iPhone with iTunes for OSX or Windows. Subscribe to rss url is not possible in iTunes for iPhone or iPod.

    24. Re:What is the point? by natehoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hmm, I don't know. There's a difference between "running" an more than one application at a time and "having an application open". The iPod Touch does allow many applications to be "open" at a time.

      In other words, as it stands right now on my wife's iPod Touch, she can go into an application and do something, then hit the HOME button and go back to that application, and nothing is lost. Nothing has happened with that application since she hit the HOME key (it wasn't running) but all the web pages she had open were still open, or whatever game she was in went back to wherever she left off.

      I think (but I don't have one, so I can't say for sure) that you'll be able to pop from your word processor to your email and back without actually having to save your document and close the application.

      This isn't as convenient as having the application actually running (as in, start some long process and go off and do something else while it finishes), but it's a far cry from the application totally terminating and having to be reloaded from scratch. My wife constantly hops back and forth between Safari, Facebook, and Gmail, and each app comes up exactly the way she left it.

      The iPod Touch does it just fine - I'd have to imagine they'd carry this capability forward to the new iPad. If you have the applications you use most frequently on the same page (and this thing is big enough to hold a LOT of application icons on the first page!) you can switch between them with two clicks (home, then the app icon you want).

      As far as form factor and typing, I'm not sure but I think I'd prefer this type of layout. Assuming, of course, that I could hold it like a clipboard while standing and use 5 fingers of one hand to type, or set it on a desk for brief heads-down typing.

      I'd still prefer an actual hard keyboard for mass text entry, but I can see the form factor being handy for casual use. Especially if I could get some sort of decent keyboard and still have the capability to scribble out drawings interspersed with the text, this would be a major boon at meetings.

      The trouble is, no one has gotten the interface right. I remember seeing the experiments with tablets in the 90s, and the technology was NOT ready at that point. I don't know if it is now, and I don't know if Apple has it right, but based on my experience with the iPod Touch I'd say they've come the closest anyone has so far.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  3. Doesn't Create a Need by Bryan+Gividen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This entire presentation seems a little disappointing. Really, it looks, acts, and feels like a giant iPod Touch. Whereas the iPhone and iPod really created a need , I don't see that this substantially innovate to make it a must-have. It doesn't seem to improve on anything so substantially that it is an obvious choice. Maybe I need to see a few more videos, but I don't see this pulling serious market share away from Kindle's targeted market segment.

    1. Re:Doesn't Create a Need by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This entire presentation seems a little disappointing. Really, it looks, acts, and feels like a giant iPod Touch. Whereas the iPhone and iPod really created a need , I don't see that this substantially innovate to make it a must-have. It doesn't seem to improve on anything so substantially that it is an obvious choice. Maybe I need to see a few more videos, but I don't see this pulling serious market share away from Kindle's targeted market segment.

      Yes, quite.

      Last time I saw a /. commenter speculating about the future of Apple's latest new thing, it read something like this:

      Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...

      Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port ...

      Raise your hand if you have both ...

      Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device ...

      There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.

      ~LoudMusic

      I prefer to take the 'wait and see' approach.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    2. Re:Doesn't Create a Need by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given that the Kindle's target market is book readers, I don't think tablets like this will have much effect. It's more of a laptop replacement than a book reader; eInk is way more readable, and requires charging far less often. Yes, multiple single-purpose devices can get bulky, but then, I was already carrying around my books anyway. If I wanted a laptop, I'd look at the iPad as an alternative (just like I'd look at a netbook), but if I want to read books and newspapers, I'll stick with paper or eInk.

      I'm not saying it will fail, I'm saying it will take market share from laptops far more than eBook readers.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    3. Re:Doesn't Create a Need by flabordec · · Score: 5, Funny

      The last time you saw a comment in /. speculating about the future of Apple's latest new thing was with the release of the iPod? You don't visit very often.

      --
      "I see undead people" Warcraft III - Necromancer
    4. Re:Doesn't Create a Need by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think this may be a shot across the bough of netbooks rather than smartphones or laptops.

      I've got an iPod Touch already. I love the thing. It travels with me everywhere. I can go online, do just about anything I need, etc. I even have Kindle for iPhone installed on it, though the small screen has kept me from reading much on it.

      I also have a laptop. It's great for taking on the road so I have a computer in my hotel room, but in reality if I go into a coffee shop or other wifi hotspot, the laptop is just too damned bulky for me.

      Recently I had thought about getting a netbook. Not to replace either of those devices, but to complement them. I'd have it for those times when I want a screen bigger than my iPod can handle, but when I want a smaller device than my laptop. Truthfully, having seen this, I'm now thinking about it a bit more seriously than the netbook. The question though, is cost. If it's priced like a netbook, then I see the beginnings of a beautiful relationship. If it's priced like Apple's laptops, then no thanks - I like this product more but not enough to spend several hundred extra dollars on it.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    5. Re:Doesn't Create a Need by noidentity · · Score: 5, Funny

      There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.

      ~LoudMusic

      And that, my friends, is why the Post Anonymously checkbox exists.

    6. Re:Doesn't Create a Need by prockcore · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think this may be a shot across the bough of netbooks rather than smartphones or laptops.

      My wife's netbook is half the price of the cheapest iPad, and it can play Hulu and Netflix Instant View.

  4. Taking Jobs at his word by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Way better than a laptop, way better then a phone."

    So Apple is basically saying that we should stop buying MacBooks and iPhones?

    1. Re:Taking Jobs at his word by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know you're joking, but it makes more sense in context. He's saying that there's no point in creating a new class of devices unless it actually does something better than the existing classes of devices. So if the iPad doesn't do *something* better than both the iPhone and MacBook, then they wouldn't be releasing it as a product. That doesn't mean that Macbooks and iPhones won't continue to do other things better.

      So their hope is that the iPad will be better for reading ebooks (for example) than either the iPhone of MacBook, but the MacBook may still be better for general computing and the iPhone will be better at being a cell phone.

    2. Re:Taking Jobs at his word by proslack · · Score: 5, Funny

      Which would be paraphrased as "Less screen space than a laptop and much bulkier than a phone." A phone for trolls or a laptop for dwarves...in other words, a device with great sales potential in Middle Earth.

      --


      Floating in the black seas of infinity without a paddle.
  5. iPad? Really? by FSWKU · · Score: 4, Funny

    What an unfortunate name. One could conceiveably think that Apple is delving into the untapped market of network-enabled feminine hygiene products... What was wrong with the oft-rumored "iSlate" moniker? Also, what's the PRICE on this thing?

    --
    "So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
    1. Re:iPad? Really? by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 4, Funny

      What an unfortunate name.

      Just wait until Apple partners with Sprint next year and releases the WiMax iPad.

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    2. Re:iPad? Really? by kungfugleek · · Score: 4, Funny

      Predicted by MadTV years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1BUH9eXy18

  6. Backlit and eyestrain by jbezorg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I may still get a Kindle because of this reason.

    --
    I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
  7. Oblig by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 5, Funny

    No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

    --
    Drill baby drill - on Mars
  8. Awkward keyboard usage by jimasksme · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A nice solid entry and a step ahead in the evolution of portable computing. Although, the usage of the keyboard perplexes me. Using a keyboard while the screen lays flat just seems awkward to me..

    http://jimasks.me/if-you-could-choose-how-you-would-die-what-would-you-choose-and-why

  9. Perfect! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was looking at the iPhone the other day and I was just thinking that it would be so much better if it didn't fit into any of my pockets.

  10. Re:Is that an OLED screen? by MoonBuggy · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's LCD. IPS, to be specific.

  11. Multi-tasking by konadelux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So help me god this thing better have multitasking

    1. Re:Multi-tasking by prockcore · · Score: 5, Informative

      It doesn't.

    2. Re:Multi-tasking by nobodyman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... multitasking is not required. there is no use case.

      I dunno man, sounds like your trying to convince yourself, not us. To say that there aren't *any* use cases is just silly. How about skype calls while using another app? There's a case right there!

      Having used an iPhone and and Android phone I can tell you that multitasking is a nice feature to have. And the iPhone notifications are a joke compared to what you get with android (especially for IM and VOIP clients).

      The only reason iPhone/iPad doesn't have multitasking is because of battery life issues and RAM limitations. To say "oh you don't need those things" is just being an apologist.

  12. Phenomenal by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Funny

    To see the whole page is phenomenal

    I'm not sure "phenomenal" is the right term to describe "seeing a whole page". You would think that we've never been able to see a whole page before and that Steve Jobs is personally responsible for some entirely new experience.

    I guess that's what they mean by the reality distortion field.

    You can turn it any way you want.

    Good god, you mean I can pick the thing up and actually turn it? I'm so excited I'm about to soil myself! Will Apple innovations never cease?

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  13. Re:New Ipad by Hatta · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm just waiting for Apple to announce the new iPud. Is that an iPud in your pocket?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  14. Watching the presentation live... by Hamster+Lover · · Score: 5, Funny

    Watching the announcement live I was struck with just how absorbent the crowd was regarding iPad presentation. It's like this product has wings. I wonder how well the iPad will handle those heavy work flow days.

  15. Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss by mdm-adph · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just buy a Verizon mifi and tape the fucking thing to the back, jesus christ. It's big enough.

    Problem solved.

    --
    It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
  16. Re:Giant iPhone by trash+eighty · · Score: 5, Funny

    It might be a normal iPhone but Steve has shrunk

  17. Wifi tethering with Android or Nokia, of course! by pydev · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can use this as a mobile device by tethering it over Wifi to an Android or Noikia device.

  18. Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss by arcite · · Score: 5, Insightful
    wifi is in Starbucks, Mcdonolds, bars & cafes, and all other cool places where people will hang out with these things.

    Universities and colleges all have strong wifi coverage

    wait for Rev. B!

    Apple will sell millions.

  19. Fantastic! by diskofish · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now that we've gotten that out of the way, can we move on now?

    1. Re:Fantastic! by e2d2 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Slow down speedy, we have to take a shit on it first. Then we move on.

  20. Premature by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Steve Jobs is still on stage in the middle of announcing this thing. Couldn't the Slashdot article have waited until they've finished announcing all of the features?

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  21. This fits squarely in the category of "meh" by SwabTheDeck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have both an iPhone and a MacBook and I use and love both everyday. However, I've never thought to myself, "how great would it be to have a 10-inch iPhone?" After watching the live coverage for the last hour, that's basically all this is. The OS and UI are basically the same, just upscaled and optimized in some places for the larger screen. As far as I can tell, there are none of the clever innovations that are typically present in a new Apple product. The only people that I can see this thing appealing to would be people that have a strong fascination for touch screens and people that don't feel that they can properly lounge about with a laptop (as exemplified by Steve Jobs lounging in a love seat during the presentation). I think the only obvious application would be as an ebook reader (side note: I nearly had a fit when they decided to reuse the term iBook to brand their ebooks). The presentation still isn't done so there isn't a word on price, but if it can't come within range of the Kindle and similar devices, I'd say this thing is purely novelty.

  22. underpowered? by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny

    It actually has a robust power source; it is powered almost entirely by the user's sense of self-importance.

  23. Re:price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wireless. More space than a Nomad. Lame.

  24. Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss by slimjim8094 · · Score: 3, Informative

    they do have 3g. just announced

    --
    I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
  25. is late by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What was wrong with the oft-rumored "iSlate" moniker?

    "Ip ad" doesn't mean anything in English. "Is late" meant Duke Nukem Forever for several years.

  26. Error in the article by garg0yle · · Score: 5, Informative

    "There will be models with 3G support" according to Steve Jobs, so saying that it doesn't support 3G is just a bit, um, wrong.

    --
    Modding "-1, Troll" is not a proper response if you disagree with me. Try reason.
    1. Re:Error in the article by SwabTheDeck · · Score: 5, Informative

      Details:

      AT&T (per usual)
      $15/mo for 250 MB or$30/mo for unlimited
      Free use of AT&T Wi-Fi hotspots
      Uses GSM Micro SIMs and will work with any GSM provider that has these cards, all models are "unlocked" and not bound to a carrier

  27. 3G Data Plans by rotide · · Score: 3, Informative

    Notes from watching streaming event.

    3G Wireless w/AT&T

    $14.99 for up to 250 MB per month

    $29.99 for unlimited per month

    Discuss?

    1. Re:3G Data Plans by mdm-adph · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You forgot the most important part -- they're all contract free. Gotta admit that's pretty neat.

      --
      It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
  28. *yawn* by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 5, Funny

    No WiMAX. Same storage as an iPod. Lame.

  29. Re:Extra things you'll need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    But it doesn't.

    I use a 1.2ghz Pentium M tablet PC running XP tablet edition (Less than $350 with a new battery). Why? because I can annotate PDF files, take notes with one note (PLEASE we need a OSS version of that app) and then at the end of the meeting I can simply email all of it via my corperate email. Those two apps are the killer apps most people that use a tablet professionally need. I can annotate the customers blueprints and send them and engineering a copy, Plus my notes in one note are easy to organize. All on something that costs less than this thing will even in it's el-cheapo form.

  30. Re:price? by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nope.

    Wi-fi versions are $499, $599, $699 for 16/32/64GB versions, respectively.

    3G versions are $629, $729, $829, respectively.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  31. Re:Extra things you'll need by sopssa · · Score: 3, Informative

    Exactly. Apparently this one costs $499. And it doesn't even have 3G (afraid of Nokia's patents?). Thats a major letdown for me, as I have cheap unlimited 3g and it would be perfect with a thing like this.

    And the device is completely closed down like iPhone - if you want apps, you need to buy them from App Store.

    I was waiting for the announcement, but meh. Not for me. I'll just wait for Courier.

  32. Re:Hmm by DragonWriter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My biggest problem with this is that it seems to be locked into the app store, just like the iPhone. In that sense, it does LESS than a netbook. Not saying this won't be successful, since Apple is nothing if not great at marketing consumer electronics, but what does this do for me task-wise that I can't do on a netbook?

    Its a convergence device. As such, its designed to be a better netbook than the Kindle DX, a better eReader than an EeePC, and a better portable media player than either.

    Its not a better netbook than a dedicated netbook, or a better eReader than a dedicated reader (though, of course, Apple will try to sell it as being better in both these roles than the existing competition.) And maybe not a better portable media player for most uses than an iPod Touch. But Apple's bet is that the perceived price/utility it will provide is better than any of dedicated readers/netbooks because it does a good enough job in all three roles to be a one-stop multirole device.

  33. Re:The A4 processor.. by JackDW · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds like a close relative of the ARM Cortex-A8 and Cortex-A9: the line of ARM CPUs specifically intended to run end-user applications rather than embedded control software.

    On a related topic, people who pray for the end of x86 should be careful what they wish for, because their desire brings completely closed platforms and proprietary app stores. There is one reason why you can install software on your Windows machine without a "developer key" or Microsoft's explicit approval, and that reason is backwards compatibility.

    --
    You're an immobile computer, remember?
  34. Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I do.

    I carry around my 17" laptop AND a 13" tablet. In meetings I use the tablet, plus I can do easy markup of a customers blueprints with them looking on and making their own notes directly to the screen, then email off a copy to them and the engineer.

    I tend to steal a lot of contracts from the dweebs that only carry around a tiny light laptop.

    it's all about putting productivity over whining about carrying a little more weight around.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  35. Re:Extra things you'll need by Moryath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's see: so in essence what we have here is an iPod Touch with a 10" screen, and still pretty skimpy storage space.

    Plus, it's only useful if you jailbreak it, once people figure out how to do so.

    Yeah. I get the feeling this is gonna fly like the Macbook Air did. Give 'em 48 hours and people will wonder what the hell Apple was thinking.

  36. Re:price? by Rycross · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The 3G version has both.

  37. yes for example by commodoresloat · · Score: 3, Funny

    That Divinyls song from the 90s, "iTouch Myself"

  38. http://www.apple.com/ipad/ by Singularity42 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not seeing it on the front page, but it's all up here.

  39. No contract need for 3G! by WiiVault · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unlocked, MicroSIM compatible. SOLD

  40. multiple SIM cards by pydev · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know this comes as a surprise to US users, but in many countries, you get multiple SIM cards on the same contract for no or little extra money. Put one in your phone, one in your reader, one in your laptop, etc. Nice, eh?

  41. Re:price? by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's unlocked, which means it's unsubsidized. The 3G data plan is pretty cheap.

  42. True by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is exactly what happened when the iPod was announced: slashdot dismissed it as derivative while Apple quietly reinvented the freakin' walkman. One thing Apple generally gets right is marketing. There may be nothing technologically revolutionary to most slashdotters in the iPad but the fact is it's already shaken up the consumer world even before it was officially acknowledged as an existing product. At the Consumer electronics show in Las Vegas this year the upcoming Apple tablet was a bigger topic of excitement than any device that actually existed at the time -- Apple didn't even go to the convention and yet they managed to have a significant presence there. They have been very successful in the hype department without even spending a dime on advertising. Technological merits aside they will sell a boatload of these.

    1. Re:True by proslack · · Score: 4, Informative

      Where Apple spent it's money last year: Operating expenses: Research and development 1,333,000,000 Selling, general and administrative 4,149,000,000 Notice that they spent about three times as much convincing you to buy stuff as they did designing it...

      --


      Floating in the black seas of infinity without a paddle.
    2. Re:True by Princeofcups · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Notice that they spent about three times as much convincing you to buy stuff as they did designing it...

      Worthless statistic. A device only has to be designed once. If you sell millions of them in a hundred different countries over several years of course your marketing is going to grow large.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    3. Re:True by PAKnightPA · · Score: 4, Informative

      Your comment is very misleading: Sales, General and Administrative is not merely marketing expenses. It includes, among other things, the salaries of everyone at the company (thus the word general) and numerous other expenses. Therefore it is not accurate to use SG&A as a substitute for marketing costs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SG%26A

    4. Re:True by vakuona · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree that Apple gets the marketing right, but I think that's not what Apple really gets right. What Apple really gets right is making products that are simple and not annoying to use for the masses. Compare the original iPod to its mp3 playing peers. Until Apple made the iPhone and the iPod Touch, no other player came close. That and the iTunes store tie up, and Apple really got it right. It makes marketing the damn product easy. How memorable are the iPhone ads. In fact, how many ads do you know where all someone is doing is showing you what the device can do, easily? Imagine such an ad for the Sony Ericsson W960i http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w960i. The phone has many of the features on an iPhone, but even Sony Ericsson would not be caught dead demonstrating it on TV.

      The technology is important, but isn't everything. Making it work for people is more important than any ingenuity that went into making the product

  43. Re:price? by cabjf · · Score: 3, Informative

    I bet AT&T is getting a cut from every 3G unit sold in exchange for the availability of a cheap, non-contract data plan. Plus, I get the wifi-only version doesn't have a sim card, so it's not just the 3G antenna being added for 130 dollars; it's also the sim card and associated hardware.

  44. They killed their own baby. by foo+fighter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This thing kills the MacBook Air.

    On the other hand, I guess we now know Apple's premium for running an unlocked operating system. (iPad: $500, MacBook Air: $1500; you do the math)

    --
    obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
  45. No stylus eh? by mikael_j · · Score: 4, Funny

    I see nothing about stylus support, guess I won't be buying one then.

    It would have been a perfect device with stylus support, now it's just not for me (although I do see a lot of possibilities for others).

    /Mikael

    --
    Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
  46. Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The deal with AT&T is the biggest news. Holy hell that's fucking awesome.

    $15 for 250MB
    $30 for UNLIMITED DATA.
    No contract.

    I bet you just have to activate it on a iPad, then put it in any phone that will handle GSM and use VOIP for unlimited data and minutes for $30 a month.

    AT&T will try and lock it but I imagine that we can get around that rather quickly. I'd consider going back to AT&T for that price.

  47. The iPad is a Platform by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most people here don't see past their own noses... Myself, I like the iPad except for the fact that Apple decides what I can install... but that's the whole point.

    The iPad is a platform, not a device.

    Most people just want stuff to work, and don't want to care how. Most of the time, so do I. I don't want my stove in the kitchen to require a friggin manual to do basic cooking even if I could patch it to boil eggs 15% faster I never would be bothered. It's the same for regular people with all tech, computers included. People don't want to know the details, they just want to tap on a movie/book/app/whatever, confirm their transaction, and have it all just work.

    The iPad can run iPhone apps, and the SDK is available now. App developers will be falling over each other to be first with new apps taking advantage of the larger screen.

    I'm very tempted, but still skeptical I'll buy this myself. The closed platform is an issue for me. But most people couldn't care less about what they can't do on a device like this, if they just can do all they want. Freedom is great, but how many of us have truly bothered to go under the hood in our games consoles for instance? I can do all I truly need with our Wii even if I can't run SCUMMVM. Hell, I don't even have time to play all the games I've bought.

    The iPad will be a great example of good enough technology. "The internet", in your lap, on this amazing looking little device. With movies, books, music and apps to boot. Joe and Jane Average are gonna think it's great.

    --
    .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    1. Re:The iPad is a Platform by Reformed+Lurker · · Score: 3, Funny

      Mod poster up. My wife, who thinks I sound like Charlie Brown's teacher when I mention technical terms (like "mouse") abosolutely loves the iPhone she got in November, and constantly finds ways to use it whenever she can - without needing my help. She'll eat this iPad up. It's people like her who will make this a success. Easy to use; fits their needs. Their target market is not slashdot (except to entice developers to get on-board).

    2. Re:The iPad is a Platform by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Joe and Jane Average do not have an extra $500 -$860 plus another 30/mo in addition to their cellphone and wireless internet costs to drop on "the Internet", movies, books, and apps in their laps when they have a laptop which does the just about the same thing already.

      I have yet to see a laptop which is comfortable to use on a bus/train commute. The world is larger than the US, and public transportation actually works in a lot of places. Also, unlimited 3G data is 10€ a month here.

      I've been looking for a decent PDF-capable ereader for my own commute for ages. This is definitely a candidate.

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    3. Re:The iPad is a Platform by Eil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There have been a few times where I've seriously considered plunking down some cash and getting a Mac Mini to use as my primary desktop at home, for the sole reason of having a nice fluid well-engineered interface and set of tools for my increasing interest in web development.

      But if this is the direction that OS X is headed down, I don't want any part of it. I suspect that Apple is trying to get to the point where the desktop version of OS X (as we know it) will eventually be available only to developers while the locked-down iPhone/iPod/iPad OS will be the standard on all of Apple's consumer-level hardware like laptops and desktops.

  48. Re:Extra things you'll need by kju · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not sure where you and the summary of this got that the iPad doesn't have 3G??

    Because the article was written when neither the price nor the 3G feature were announced yet. Apparently slashdot wanted to be quick to report the iPad, so they did not care to wait for further details.

  49. Re:Is that an OLED screen? by DJRumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here are the full specs: http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/

  50. Re:Extra things you'll need by bonch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Slashdot's color commentary on important Apple announcements over the years:

    iPod - "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."

    iPod mini - "Nobody is going to buy a 4GB external drive for $250."

    iPad - "It's just a useless iPod touch with a bigger screen. What were they thinking?"

  51. Re:Extra things you'll need by aslate · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Exactly my thoughts, they've done the Tablet PC without including the pen, the reason that Tablet PCs are so useful.

    Our Uni publishes all the notes online as PDFs, i load up aforementioned app and annotate right on the notes. But i can also insert extra pages, copy-paste and insert diagrams. My logic coursework and having the ability to copy/paste/edit previous lines, as well as doodle without wrecking it is so much more useful than a pad of paper. The brilliance of a Tablet PC is the pen, not the fact you can poke it.

    My 3.5 year old Tablet PC has a 1.7Ghz Pentium M with 1GB RAM and is now running Windows 7. It blows the functionality of this thing out the water.

  52. Re:Taking Jobs at his word--misquoted by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Funny

    It was actually "way more intimate than a laptop, way better than a phone"--which makes sense.

    So it's some kind of fancy vibrator?

  53. Something the world DIDN'T need... by logicassasin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...was a bigger iPod Touch.

    I stick by my earlier statement that the name makes it sound like digital Kotex. However, it mus be noted that Steve Jobs may have his first Edsel on his hands.

    Seriously, the ASUS Eee PC T91MT gives you more of a computer for a bit less than the cost of this iPad (I chuckle every time I read or type that). REAL applications, REAL OS (not a "gadget" os), REAL everything! It's a tablet and a netbook at once. Approx $450 gets you 32GB SSD, 1GB RAM, and Win 7 all in a small package with a proven processor underneath it all.

    $50 more get's you less drive space, an unknown amount of RAM, and a gadget OS running on what appears to be a 2010 version of the Cyrix MediaGX processor.

    Steve needs to take some time off and rethink this one.

    --
    Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
  54. Re:Is that an OLED screen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I heard there is a bug that causes blurriness, but they plan on fixing it with an iPatch.

  55. The iPad nano is available too by kindbud · · Score: 5, Funny
    --
    Edith Keeler Must Die
  56. Re:Extra things you'll need by daveime · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What gets me is the price step up for the memory ...

    To get +16 GB the price increase is $100
    To get +32 GB the price increase is another $200

    So basically, we are talking $100 per 16GB of flash memory, when I could buy a 16GB USB dongle for any other device for $10 ???

    And the $130 extra for 3G ? A lot of mobiles don't cost that, and have a hell of a lot more than 3G built in.

    As usual, another iRipoff, and the fanbois will lap it up ... fucking mugs.

    I have karma to burn, so do your worst, it won't change reality, only the visibility of this comment ...

  57. Re:Extra things you'll need by Garrett+Fox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow, Apple managed to invent the netbook only a couple years late for several hundred bucks more! Jobs' comments said that he wanted to establish a new class of device between smartphones and laptops. It's as though he was unaware that there's been such a category for years, and that it costs a lot less than $500, and that it doesn't lock you into one manufacturer's control so hard you can't even change the battery yourself.

    The parent comment is right in that a lot of people will probably buy the thing, 'cause it's new and shiny and Apple made it. But it's an obviously inferior device as I see it.

    (Now if only Asus will replace my $320 lemon eeePC now that I've mailed it in for repair for the fourth time...)

    --
    Revive the Constitution.
  58. Might be perfect computer for mom. by hostmaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't think it's going to be another iphone, the market for tablets is not as big as that for smart-phones. But, I don't think it will be an apple-tv either.

    It effectively kills the "electronic photo-book" market. People are paying 70-150 for those things, that is now gone. I like the leather-ish case which turns it into a keyboard type stand and into a photo-frame/tv stand, that seems like it will win some minds.

    One wild-card in all of this is that it is the PERFECT computer to give your mom since it's got very simple icon entry into apps, and not too many complicated menus you have to sift through. That might just lift it into another category of sales. For people who use computer apps for different and varied tasks (say photoshop, or full-fledged spreadsheet use) this is never going to be enough. But for mom or grandma to keep photos rolling on her mantle so her friends can see them, to e-mail the kids, watch a few movies, maybe play some games, this may well be ideal.

    My take is that this is not really designed for slashdot readers, it's yet another device to expand the market for apple computers to another type of user by offering a simple interface and the most frequently used features. I suspect they'll succeed, especially since the entry-price is reasonable.

    --
    -- Equity lord of the Trill Consortium
  59. Re:Disappointing. by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This thing would have been far more appealing to me if it ran a customized version of OSX...

    He wasn't building it for you.

    OK, snottiness aside, it probably would be much better for the geeks out here (and maybe a few professional Mac users out there) if it did have a full OS X running on it. On the other hand, most people don't give a rat's ass about what OS is on their computer. What they care about is (a) can it do what I want; (b) if it can't do what I want right now, can I easily get software that lets me do what I want; (c) is it easy to use; and (d) is it not a PITA to maintain/keep stable. The iPad, as a closed environment with a ton of apps and good enough connectivity (OK, good enough connectivity if you get AT&T to get it's act together) provides that. Most people won't care what OS it runs. And, in fact, as a device that converges music playing, e-book reading and movie watching I think he's hit the entertainment-oriented market he wanted to hit.

    And for those who want a full-featured OS, there's still the Mac.

    --
    That is all.
  60. Re:gay by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And it is over hyped. First by every blogger out there, then by Apple.

    There is NOTHING new here, and much that has been left out.

    Apple has run out of ideas, and have taken to eating their young. This thing will kill off the iPod Touch sales in a heart beat, especially the low end wifi version.

    It might server for Grandma who can't quite figure out that laptop thingie you gave her last year with all those buttons and stuff. The only time she uses that is when you call her up and ask her if she got your email last week.

    Its a huge disappointment if you ask me, but this time next year they can add a front facing cam, a mic and maybe Grandma can talk to the grand kids over it.

    Wait till next year.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  61. With that weak processor? by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, Jobs won't allow his new baby to stutter, and multi-tasking is just asking for a less brilliant user experience. 1GHz on an ARM is going to be necessarily limited in horsepower, and dividing that between several apps is going to lead to poor input response. Besides, he doesn't want to hear you complaining that your 10 hour iPad only lasts for 2 hours because you left your folding-at-home app running in the background. :-)

    I'm kind of amazed it doesn't have a gps. Google maps is going to suck.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:With that weak processor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and multi-tasking is just asking for a less brilliant user experience

      Really? I didn't know it was still 1968. All this perfectly fluid multitasking I do every day on other kinds of computers must be some sort of dream.

  62. Re:gay by sopssa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I completely agree with you. This whole thing just asks for "fail". The whole thing is completely unintuitive, has the same closed approach as iPhone and doesn't have any technical or usability options one would think would be good. Missing a pen too.

    And no, I do not want to buy every single software from an App Store that I would like to use. I want there to be freeware and shareware programmers, and I WANT TO DEVELOP SOFTWARE MYSELF. Even Microsoft's tablets are more open than this. Give me choice.

    I won't be buying this. Ridiculous prices to pay even more for the software. It's funny to see what will come out of this. This will most likely be a slap on Apple's face and they will fall back to earth from their cloud castles.

  63. Re:Extra things you'll need by bailout911 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Kind of amusing that you're bashing a $500 device when your $320 netbook has been in for repair FOUR TIMES. People always rail on the interchangable battery thing, but I've never carried spare batteries for ANYTHING I've owned. If you're on the move, do you really want to lug around a couple extra pounds? They list 10 hours of battery life including video playback, which, judging by my experiences with a 1st gen iPod touch, is believable.

    This thing is more a web-surfing super eBook reader than a true netbook, but in my opinion, it looks awesome. No, it's not a hacker's dream come true mega-portable computer, it's a "normal" person's digital media device. It's for eBooks, music, photos, the web and email and it's designed to do those tasks in a sleek, sexy, simple manner.

    This happens with every Apple product announcement. People speculate and expect it to have every feature under the sun, cost next to nothing and be 100% open source, cure cancer, make coffee and have its only environmental by-product be rainbows. Sorry, people, this is the real world. This product looks awesome for what it's designed to be. It's not going to replace your netbook for hacking perl on your favorite geek project and it's not supposed to.

    --
    --Stupid Sig Here--
  64. Re:Extra things you'll need by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

    But for actual work? Forget it.

    It's not meant for work.

    It's a social signifier, meant for being seen pretending to read the Infinite Jest ebook in an overpriced caffeine boutique.

    It's how a certain segment of the population can identify one another without having to expose their tattoos of improperly-used Chinese characters.

    Think of the iPad as the tech version of eyebrow jewelery.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  65. Re:gay by cheesybagel · · Score: 5, Informative
    Minuses:
    • no camera
    • no USB ports, I/O is done via the same horrible iPhone connector you have know and hate
    • VGA out requires using an adapter
    • card reader requires an adapter
    • no Ethernet port
    • no Adobe Flash
    • more expensive than a $399 netbook or CULV which has all the above, not to mention more memory and storage space
    • need to use Apple store

    Pluses:

    • Apple Office suite
    • light
    • not horribly expensive
  66. Typical techies and gadget freaks by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After reading the comments here and on Engadget, it just confirms that your average techie doesn't know a great new product when he sees it. So many people seem to be complaining that it doesn't have some certain deal-breaking hardware feature, yet they haven't even noticed the most important innovation: The software. The greatest part of this device simply flies over the head of so many people here because they have no understanding about what makes a computer great to use.

    1. Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks by iroll · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would anyone get an iPhone if they've got a Moto Razr and an iBook?

      Why would anyone get an iBook if they've got a Dell on their desk?

      Why would anyone get a Dell on their desk if they've got a terminal at work?

      Why would anyone need a terminal at work, if they've got a punchcard machine three halls down?

      That person may not need one "right now," but in a year or two they might either decide that they convergence device (of which I'm generally skeptical) either does the job just as well as a batman utility belt of other devices, or they may go for it as a lifestyle item, to replace their old gadgets. Or who knows, they might NOT have an iPhone and a Kindle... and let's face it, a lot of us don't.

      --
      Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
    2. Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks by DeltaQH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ease of use, ease of use and ease of use.

      Same problem with Iphone. Oh it does not have Trillion pixel camera, super processor, FM Radio, whatever?

      Besides the user interface It is the integration of hardware+software that apple can achieve. It flight around other hardware with more bells and whistles but poorly integrated and with poor UI.

      Just check Nokia.

    3. Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks by patSPLAT · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually you don't get it, the software is what makes this device nothing more than a giant iPhone. Which is absurd.

  67. Re:Extra things you'll need by MoonBuggy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While I absolutely agree with you that the prices above the base seem exorbitant in comparison to the 'extra' parts you're getting, you're thinking of the prices in terms of construction, not marketing.

    It's an annoyance, of course, but the simple fact is that Apple will have put an awful lot of effort into setting these prices: they don't want to sell for under $600 but marketing tells them that launching at less than $500 will hook the customers. Simple solution is to sell a base model at that price which fewer people will buy, but many will decide that they want. Once people have decided they want it and rationalised that they can afford it, it's much easier to upsell to the one that Apple intended on making all along, at the price they intended all along, by adding an extra $20 of hardware. Make them look at a $630 base unit and many people will write it off out of hand.

  68. iBrick? by mdwh2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My thoughts exactly. The advantage of the Ipod is that it's small - making portable devices bigger? That's what people call a "brick". Yet it lacks the advantages of similar sized devices, most notably netbooks (proper keyboard, open and full computer OS).

    This may sell okay to some Apple fans, but the hype over this is absurdly ridiculous and disproprtionate. I only hope it will return to normal coverage (as happened with the Air - funny how we never heard about that again, after netbooks appeared on the scene). Or I fear it may turn out like the Iphone - free advertising in the media, including daily Ipad stories (or more), even if it turns out to be one of the lesser seller tablets, compared to tablets that never get any coverage at all.

  69. Glass. by mosb1000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apple uses glass in all their iPod, iPhone, MacBook and iMac devices. They switched in response to complaints about the iPod nano scratching, and the way those complaints translated into concerns about the iPhone when the originally announced specs included a plastic screen. Since then Apple has switched their entire line-up to glass, and routinely cites the use of glass in their environmental credentials. Given how widespread their use of the material in applications similar to this is, I doubt it is much of a concern.

  70. Re:I call FUD by jwdav · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If Apple were "blocking" Flash and Silverlight simply to preserve their media sales, they would be blocking any kind of streaming media, including HTML 5/ H.264.

    Since they are not, it makes more sense that they really don't want any single company to "own" the delivery mechansim, especially if it is buggy, crash prone, or a resource hog.

  71. Re:Extra things you'll need by Verminator · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dear Europe:

    You win.

    You're better, and we suck.

    We're closing up shop.

    Sincerely,
    The United States of America

    P.S. You can now stop all shipments to us of your pricey cars and kitchen appliances.

    --
    "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
  72. Re:iPad Alternatives by sapphire+wyvern · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And, in the end, the deals with Big Content will *still* make the Apple product a million times more successful than the open community's version can achieve, even despite superior feature sets. This thing's not for doing work on; it's a media consumption device (web, streaming movies, streaming tv, ebooks). I suspect the best use of the App Store on this machine will be semi-portable gaming since the iPad doesn't have the in-pocket portability of the iPhones and iPod Touches. So yeah... if this thing succeeds at all, it'll be thanks to Apple's ability to get its customers to hand over money to Big Content via iTunes, and the associated love that Big Content has for Apple.

  73. The iPhone just might by ThrowAwaySociety · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I rather have Apple kill Flash.

    If you're going to wish for something unrealistic and beyond their power, at least shoot for world peace.

    Okay, so there are three possible visions of the future Web:

    1. The AdobeWeb, where every page is just an empty shell around an embedded SWF. There is some risk that this may happen.

    2. The SilverWeb, where every page is just an empty shell around an embedded Silverlight object. With ActiveX barely treading water, this is Microsoft's forlorn hope.

    3. The iPhone Web, where every page is HTML+JavaScript and scales nicely to small screen sizes.

    Personally, I like option 3 the best. And only Apple (and possibly Google, eventually) are backing this horse.

    1. Re:The iPhone just might by fractoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about 4) The Internet, where an appropriate medium is chosen for each web page.

      So for your game aggregation sites, you have embedded flash. For educational or lightweight application use you have HTML/DOM/JavaScript with maybe embedded Java or Silverlight, and for the rest of the web you have HTML/CSS. I like this option.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  74. You're kidding, right? by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Informative

    $130 is the standard price for just about any 3G add on to a netbook/laptop (at least that's what Dell charges, and I think that may be only with a plan purchase). $4/GB for a reliable SSD seems to be about retail, about $3/GB at discount, Dell charges $5.10/GB for an SSD in their laptops. This is closer to $6.75/GB. Not really a huge premium over another integrator, given that this is a "hot" product.

    You should be. indeed, be modded down as troll. I'm about the last person you'd find defending Apple, but the pricing really isn't far off from what should be expected. Feel free to argue about how annoying it is that you can't add the memory yourself, or change he battery, or that they didn't bother to include 3G/GPS out of the box. You could say they did, and for less than the rumored $999. They just offered a cheap, stripped down version like Dell does. You know, for the metrosexuals who are out of a job right now.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  75. Apple A4 by No.+24601 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wow, I'm a bit disappointed :) Yes, with the iPad a bit, but more so with the idea that this is Slashdot and barely anyone has thrown a spotlight on the Apple A4. This is an ARM, high performance, low power CPU with integrated graphics, and more importantly the first piece of processing silicon coming out of Cupertino. Regardless of how much i like the Intel Atom, i think this will be a viable competitor on the ARM front. Too bad it is under lock and key with the iPhone OS :p

  76. Re:gay by cheesybagel · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I used to own a Commodore Amiga. It was really, really great, except programmers hardcoded everything, so when people later on got hard drives, they could not install their games on them. They still had to use floppies. Processor clockspeed had to be downgraded on newer and faster machines because otherwise internal game timers would malfunction. You had to use software to reduce the amount of visible physical RAM because programs were written with software tricks where pointers wrapped around, or they exploited the "unused" high memory bits in the pointers to stuff data, etc.

    Cue 2010. Remember how everyone said it was much easier to develop applications for the iPhone OS rather than Android because all iPhones had the same 320x480 screen resolution? Now Apple launches iPad, with more screen resolution, and they have two backwards compatibility modes. One where apps run as a tiny rectangle in the middle of the device, another where everything is upscaled, maintaining the same application resolution.

    Uniform hardware specs are so much better. Right?

  77. Why would I buy an iPad by samwhite_y · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a theme to some of the comments which I wish to rebut. Essentially the theme is that Apple products really are not that good and they sell well only because Apple does such good marketing. The implied assumption here is that if you buy Apple's products, such as the iPod, you are just a sucker fooled by Apple's marketing campaign. Since I have bought Apple products because I thought they were the best products available for my needs, I see these statements as declaring that I am also a sucker and lacking in any real tech smarts. Essentially I feel like I am being called an idiot.

    I remember when this debate was between Linux and PCs, and the Linux crowd was trying to argue that nobody should need to run Microsoft software to do their jobs or get things done. This was at time when you could not get Linux to legally read a DVD or use algorithms to do reasonable font rendering. Of course, these limitations were because of licensing issues, some of the most useful software productivity features were protected by commercial licenses or patents. The Linux advocates would argue that I should not be running such software in the first place because it was not "open" software. But that is a different argument. I have far more sympathy for the argument that running Linux is a superior moral choice. But arguing that Linux was a better OS for getting my job done was nonsense.

    I am going to come at my argument in a backwards way. Instead of touting features of the iPad, I am going to describe artfully chosen limitations. The biggest limitation is that a developer cannot develop an application that can run as a persistent multi-threaded process. Any application that is not being used at any current moment is torn down and a new one instantiated. This is even more limited than the old Windows 3.x OS with its event driven model for task switching (for those you who don't remember -- Windows 3.x had only one running thread and all applications shared memory). Another limitation is that applications cannot use a shared file system or use shared libraries. You cannot build an application out of other applications or write applications whose purpose is to interact with other applications in useful ways. A user cannot even freely write code for their own application, build it, and run it.

    For anybody who likes to tinker with their computers (I consider myself somewhat in that breed, I do programming for a living), this seems almost mind boggling stupid. But there is a method to this madness.

    So what do you get back for these choices.

    1. A very stable device that does not need to worry about applications doing semi-permanent bad things to your computer requiring a reboot. It is not stable just because applications have a hard time doing bad things, but the basic logic of behavior is so simple that you can "audit" and control it in a way that you cannot control a standard modern OS. This eliminates tangled logic scenarios that come up when you have interactions between device drivers, OS interrupts, glitches in hardware, and complicated applications. Also, it is far easier to write protections against hostile software, especially if you control the distribution of all software for your device.

    I think many in the Slashdot crowd underestimate the importance of stability in a portable device. I reboot computers all the time because of glitches of various sorts. It is true that the OS is rarely to blame, it might be the device driver for my mouse, or a disk glitch, a misbehaving network router, or a bad application but generally such issues are fatal. And because of the complexity of the OS, the OS really has no chance at diagnosing the true cause of the problem.

    That is not something I will tolerate in a lightweight portable device used for limited but useful activities. I have heard rumors that Android phones, once you start trying to run some of the same application that make the iPhone popular, have far more problems with various issues, such as unwanted battery run down for processes that

  78. We should be CELEBRATING this thing by hackshack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that, y'all, collectively, are not the target audience for this thing. That said, we should be celebrating, rather than bitching. Here's why.

    Raise your hands, please: those who've installed LogMeIn on their mothers' computers.

    LogMeIn is a crutch, and you know it. You know damn well why you installed it, too. It's so you can support her when shit breaks every couple months, or when she can't figure something out.

    The nice thing about the iPhone OS is that it's tight. My mom had never used a cell phone in her life, and figured out how to make a call with my iPhone in seconds. The OS is like an appliance, reliability-wise. The target audience is users, not the nerd herd, and the interface reflects that. It's basically a $500 ticket to never having to support Mother again (or really any user that "just needs the basics").

    If you really think it's just a big iPhone, look at the iPad interface video (from about 1:00 - 3:00). It was the first time I actually was like, holy shit, it looks like one of those futuristic computers out of a Hollywood movie; except it actually makes logical sense, yet retains teh bling. Unlike every other OS, multitouch is "baked in" to the iPhone OS, and you can really see the level of refinement in that video. All that shit that Microsoft wishes it could do with multitouch, this thing actually does.

    No, it doesn't have multitasking or an OLED display or a webcam or a fucking JTAG header; those people can vote with their ducats and get an HP Slate. Have fun troubleshooting your wireless network in Windows 7 or GNOME using your fingertips. Ugh.