Apple's "iPad" Out In the Open

Reader oxide7 is one of the many to note that the heaviest speculation is mostly over (still waiting on the price, though) about Apple's anticipated new device (though there are surely plenty of questions about the device's hardware capabilities and the scope of its software and content marketplace): "At an event in San Francisco Apple released its anticipated iPad.'[It's] Way better than a laptop, way better then a phone. You can turn it any way you want. To see the whole page is phenomenal,' said Jobs." The (0.5") skinny: 1.5 lbs, multitouch, up to 64GB of flash, 9.7" screen, and a 1Ghz "Apple A4" chip (more about the A4 in Engadget's developing story). The iPad is closer in concept to an expanded iPhone (OS and all) than a miniaturized laptop, though it doesn't have quite as much connectivity as you might expect, with no 3G connection built in. (You'll have to make do with 802.11n, Bluetooth, and tethering.) Live coverage is ongoing at gdgt live, Engadget, and Gizmodo, as well as various others. Update by timothy, 19:58 GMT: Got the 3G part wrong; 3G is indeed an option. Prices run from $499 (16GB flash, WiFi but no 3G) to $829 (WiFi and 3G, 64GB flash). Should start shipping in 60 days (WiFi only), in 90 days for 3G. Surprsingly, no built-in camera.

Comments

gay

[Anonymous Coward]

as usual

Re:gay

[Anonymous Coward]

If I remember correctly, the term for new overhyped Apple products here on slashdot is: Lame

Re:gay

[sopssa]

I do understand why Apple went for iPad name, but maybe they should had think a little bit more about it.

Re:gay

[toastar]

Well, it could of been worse, they could of named it the iTampon

Re:gay

[icebike]

And it is over hyped. First by every blogger out there, then by Apple.

There is NOTHING new here, and much that has been left out.

Apple has run out of ideas, and have taken to eating their young. This thing will kill off the iPod Touch sales in a heart beat, especially the low end wifi version.

It might server for Grandma who can't quite figure out that laptop thingie you gave her last year with all those buttons and stuff. The only time she uses that is when you call her up and ask her if she got your email last week.

Its a huge disappointment if you ask me, but this time next year they can add a front facing cam, a mic and maybe Grandma can talk to the grand kids over it.

Wait till next year.

Re:gay

[sopssa]

I completely agree with you. This whole thing just asks for "fail". The whole thing is completely unintuitive, has the same closed approach as iPhone and doesn't have any technical or usability options one would think would be good. Missing a pen too.

And no, I do not want to buy every single software from an App Store that I would like to use. I want there to be freeware and shareware programmers, and I WANT TO DEVELOP SOFTWARE MYSELF. Even Microsoft's tablets are more open than this. Give me choice.

I won't be buying this. Ridiculous prices to pay even more for the software. It's funny to see what will come out of this. This will most likely be a slap on Apple's face and they will fall back to earth from their cloud castles.

Re:gay

[Goaway]

Yes, this will totally DOOM IT TO FAILURE just like the "WEE"!!!

Re:gay

[cheesybagel]

Minuses:

• no camera
• no USB ports, I/O is done via the same horrible iPhone connector you have know and hate
• VGA out requires using an adapter
• card reader requires an adapter
• no Ethernet port
• no Adobe Flash
• more expensive than a $399 netbook or CULV which has all the above, not to mention more memory and storage space
• need to use Apple store

Pluses:

• Apple Office suite
• light
• not horribly expensive

Re:gay

[sopssa]

Comments of a guy who copied everything else in the industry

Re:gay

[wealthychef]

Steve Jobs says this is better than a phone. My immediate question is, well, does it make phone calls? Um, no. So I still need to keep my phone around with me, right? So now I have to pay $100/month instead of $70/month for mobile connectivity...

Re:gay

[sopssa]

Claiming that he completely forgot about the much-hyped electronic device until the last minute, a frantic Steve Jobs reportedly stayed up all night Tuesday in a desperate effort to design Apple's new tablet computer. "Come on, Steve, just think—think, dammit—you're running out of time," the exhausted CEO said as he glued nine separate iPhones to the back of a plastic cafeteria tray. "Okay, yeah, this will work. This will definitely work. Just need to write 'tablet' on this little strip of masking tape here and I'm golden. Oh, come on, you piece of shit! Just stick already!" Middle-of-the-night sources reported that Jobs then began work on double-spacing his Keynote presentation and increasing the font size to make it appear longer.

Re:gay

[Miseph]

Could they have? Could they really? Have? HAVE?

Re:gay

[Cassius Corodes]

I don't understand how apple gets away with charging so much for so little HD space. But I dare say this will be a success - its getting to the point where apple can take a turd and convince people its a revolutionary product.

Re:gay

[supremebob]

It costs more than a Nomad, too. Lame ;)

Re:gay

[samantha]

No multi-tasking;
No new APIs for background processes;
Keyboard is just as lame as iPhone and badly scaled to larger screen;
no path for Kindle users except iPhone kindle app;
no file system access to organize all the stuff you can cram into one of these;
no wireless sync whatsoever;
only a pound lighter than my macbook air;
only 3 hours more battery life than my new macbook pro;
no new apps just rework of iWork when all its components are apple proprietary non-industry standard crap.

Re:gay

[cheesybagel]

I used to own a Commodore Amiga. It was really, really great, except programmers hardcoded everything, so when people later on got hard drives, they could not install their games on them. They still had to use floppies. Processor clockspeed had to be downgraded on newer and faster machines because otherwise internal game timers would malfunction. You had to use software to reduce the amount of visible physical RAM because programs were written with software tricks where pointers wrapped around, or they exploited the "unused" high memory bits in the pointers to stuff data, etc.

Cue 2010. Remember how everyone said it was much easier to develop applications for the iPhone OS rather than Android because all iPhones had the same 320x480 screen resolution? Now Apple launches iPad, with more screen resolution, and they have two backwards compatibility modes. One where apps run as a tiny rectangle in the middle of the device, another where everything is upscaled, maintaining the same application resolution.

Uniform hardware specs are so much better. Right?

Re:gay

[jedwidz]

And also on the minus side, won't this thing rock, in a bad way?

The iPhone isn't stable when rested on a table, due to the curved back and thin edges. From the photos it looks like the iPad will be unstable too.

Re:gay

[Anonymous Coward]

"Minuses:"

Add to that not widescreen. And no multitasking maybe.

Apple is claiming 720p support (under TV and Video) with the display's resolution is only 1024x768.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/

720p is widescreen, so I have no clue how Apple is claiming this. I guess upscaling is the new lie.

What bullshit is this. People are going to lap this up, and this device sucks.

Yes, it'll sell, but like the iphone and the ipod, there will be people who think what they have is just so cool, and the knowledgeable few looking on will be wondering what idiot bought the trendy device when other, more available options are out there.

In any case, thanks Apple for the info. After the long wait from the build up and fail last September, I can get a Vaio and Nokia for $70 more than you device and not be bothered with this lockdown.

Re:gay

[Anonymous Coward]

That was really funny !!

Re:gay

[Anonymous Coward]

> Add to that not widescreen

That's because it's meant to emulate a sheet of paper. A letter-size page has approximately 4:3.1 aspect ratio, almost the same as the iPad or SDTV.

Re:gay

[Anonymous Coward]

I completely agree with you. This whole thing just asks for "fail". The whole thing is completely unintuitive, has the same closed approach as iPhone and doesn't have any technical or usability options one would think would be good. Missing a pen too.

As much as I don't like this - it appears to be the worst of an iPhone and a Macbook - to imply that the iphone is fail because it is closed is just stupid. The iphone is a huge success, whether you like it or not. I suppose you think that Linux on the desktop is a huge win?

Most people in the world are not software developers - why would they care how open the development platform is when deciding what to buy?

I'm sure you not purchasing this will be a massive slap in Apple's face. I can just imagine the boardroom meeting now...
SJ: Global sales are strong, but there is this far more pressing matter of sopssa from slashdot not purchasing an ipad. If this doesn't change we better just close up shop
board: yes, agreed, this could spell doom for our company. And with the impending year of Linux on the desktop this is definitely the end.

Re:gay

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather get one of these. I think they run a similar price range, except the Viliv is more portable, has better specs and uses a x86 CPU.

Re:gay

[smash]

Disagree. If there is an app for it that can work on Excel spreadsheets or word documents, we have plenty of Employees who are looking for something cheap, extremely portable, with decent battery life that they can use on the plane. A 2kg notebook won't cut it (too heavy, too big to use on the tray table), and your typical netbook wastes a lot of space/weight with the keyboard as well.

If you want to develop apps yourself (99.9% of users won't) you can do so on a mac with the included xcode software and a nominal license fee.

I see it as being an epic win for corporate users who travel a lot and are finding that the smartphone they've been tethered to for the past few yeas is good for their email, etc while on the move, but not quite big enough to be productive.

That is a niche that will love this device.

Re:gay

[smash]

Apple are masters of making stuff pleasant to use for the average Joe. On paper the iphone is pretty average. In reality, the touchscreen is awesome, the apps are pretty good and it "just works". The storage space is plenty for what I think is the target market - people who want a portable media device for plane trips that they can actually do work on. Laptops are too big to use on planes.

Re:gay

[smash]

The netbook wastes space/weight on the keyboard. We have execs crying out for a touchscreen tablet that is light enough and small enough to do lightweight work/review of spreadsheets and email whilst in transit on the plane (we have remote sites that are 3 days travel time to get there). The iphone has been OK for this sort of thing when limited to email, but these users we have typically want a desktop replacement laptop (so its powerful enough for everything they may need to throw at it) which is just way too heavy and unwieldy to use whilst actually in transit.

The iPad is going to be a major win for these people. Its going to be the difference between losing 6 days of work for a trip to one of our remote sites, vs being able to spend at least SOME of that time number crunching in an excel equivalent.

Re:gay

[Anonymous Coward]

720p is widescreen, so I have no clue how Apple is claiming this. I guess upscaling is the new lie.

It's too early to get anything confirmed, but it's likely the external video can run at a separate resolution (perhaps while turning off the internal display), so I suspect it spits out 1280x720 in "movie mode" and 1024x768 for "presentation mode". We'll see though.

Re:gay

[lazyforker]

There's an iPad SDK just for you: http://www.apple.com/ipad/sdk/

Re:gay

[mxh83]

Pluses:

• Apple Office suite

• Not free

• light

• 1.5lb is light? I don't concur. And the exterior design is bad. It would be fine for a small device like a phone. This is a slab and Apple has made no effort to make it easy to hold. That weight will take its toll within 10 minutes of usage. It will be an ergonomics disaster.

• not horribly expensive

• I disagree. See the opportunity cost over time. And if I wanted wifi at $500, I could buy a full featured laptop instead and do *whatever* I want with it, not just what Apple says I can.

Re:gay

[mxh83]

This thing will kill off the iPod Touch sales in a heart beat, especially the low end wifi version.

Great comment. I agree.

Re:gay

[Carewolf]

Actually, what made the Amiga great was that they couldn't hard code everything. Moving to harddisk was easy. I never got one, but I had extra memory and loaded two floppy to RAM to cut down on disk changes (Monkey Island II: 22 disks). What made it easy was that all drives had to be accessed by name, so you just had to have another possibly virtual disk with the same name as the floppy.

Re:gay

[Zebedeu]

Minuses:

• (...)
• more expensive than a $399 netbook or CULV which has all the above, not to mention more memory and storage space
• (...)

Pluses:

• (...)
• not horribly expensive

So the price is bad, but it's good?

Re:gay

[MrMickS]

The whole thing is completely unintuitive, has the same closed approach as iPhone and doesn't have any technical or usability options one would think would be good. Missing a pen too.

And no, I do not want to buy every single software from an App Store that I would like to use. I want there to be freeware and shareware programmers, and I WANT TO DEVELOP SOFTWARE MYSELF.

Like, what appears to be, the vast majority on slashdot you are missing the point.

The point is its not for you. Its not designed to address the requirement you list above. However, that doesn't mean that its fail. More likely it means that you are close minded.

I hate to rain on people's parade but technology is no longer exclusively for geeks. The Internet has made technology a part of most people's lives. Most people don't need your requirements. What they want is access to the Internet. Even then, they don't want the whole internet. They would be happy with the Web, Email and some sort of IM.

At the moment these people have PCs and they cause them no ends of issues. They get viruses, because they don't want to become enough of an expert to know how to avoid them. They get problems and have to call someone out to connect them back onto the Internet. They have 4 or 5 toolbars running in their browser. They don't know how they got there, and don't know how to get rid of them. They don't understand URLs and type them into Google. These are the people that the iPad is going to address.

Yes it has some limitations, no Flash means some sites won't render, but the majority of standards compliant sites will work. So what the iPad is doing is providing Internet access in a clean, protected, form for people that don't care about how things work, just that they do. If you are too rigid in your mindset to see this please, please, find another area to work in.

Re:gay

[sticky_charris]

I don't think this thing will be a hit with business users as you simply wont get proper office support for editing documents. Secondly I think it would still be a bit awkward for use on a plane - you would have to prop it up on a tray table to be able to use it sensibly. A tablet running Windows 7 would of course be more suitable for business users, given that you have FULL office functionality (even openoffice if your company has made the switch). And can multitask between apps, drag this in, drop that there etc. I think the iPad fits into the toy/gadget category.

Re:gay

[sticky_charris]

I think the people who know nothing about technology are exactly the same people who will return it because Youtube doesn't work for them or the flash e-card they got sent won't open. Or their friends can listed to streaming music while they go on the internet but they can't etc. Besides, how will they get online with this - in most cases they would have had to have set up a Wifi router - no doubt requiring the use of a REAL COMPUTER in the process. I think this thing will sell well but not to the lowest rung of society - rather to the technically able masses who simply love everything that Apple produces and have more money than sense.

Re:gay

[sticky_charris]

You would have to carry your iPhone AND your iPad around with you.

I would feel like such a dong bag if I got both out at the same time and sat site by side. The irony of the whole 'free thinking' strapline would make me feel nauseas.

Re:gay

[SolusSD]

So download the SDK and develop software yourself! Oh, and don't complain about the $99 devloper program fee-- It's quite a bit cheaper than a copy of Visual Studio and comes w/ all the tools you need. Plus, if the iPhone is any sign of what software on the iPad will be like (and it should be given they share an app framework and it can run iPhone apps) 70+% of apps will be free.

Re:gay

[SolusSD]

It's an article from The Onion- Don't give the poster too much credit.

Re:gay

[sticky_charris]

Sheets of paper come in all different sizes.

International paper sizes (A6, A5, A4) are actually closer to widescreen format. Paperback books are generally closer to widescreen format. Also consider that this is as much for browsing and watching films (I would hope) and you can see that 4:3 isn't a great choice.

Of course, because it is Apple it is great though, and LCD is now way better than e-ink for long reading sessions.

Re:gay

[sticky_charris]

And not a WIndows 7 tablet? Really? Try throwing multitasking at it. Try natively editing those documents you were talking about. Try opening several word documents and a few spreadsheets at the same time. The iPad isn't powerful even by netbook standards and is seriously crippled by comparison for (serious) business use. Perhaps what they really want to do is look cool in front of the stewardess, impress a few business buddies with the iBoobies app and then settle down to a movie marathon. I certainly wouldn't allow my staff to put such a toy/gadget through expenses.

Re:gay

[sopssa]

The iPhone is only success in US (says something about the population?). Elsewhere, without contracts, Nokia and HTC are dominating and Apple can barely sell any. And they've got into big legal battles.

Re:gay

[sopssa]

Visual Studio is free for students.

Re:gay

[Stupendoussteve]

Why would setting up a wireless router require a computer? Plug it in, connect to linksys.

Re:gay

[Stupendoussteve]

You obviously haven't met many execs. What CEO isn't trying to look cool in front of the stewardess? Upgrading to the latest and greatest Blackberry is so out of style.

Re:gay

[sticky_charris]

I don't doubt that some routers allow you to set it up via wireless connection - most still require an initial ethernet connection for this though.

price?

[Anonymous Coward]

price?

Re:price?

[vivtho]

$799 for the top of the line version

Re:price?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wireless. More space than a Nomad. Lame.

Re:price?

[TheKidWho]

$499 according to Steve Jobs for the base model.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/live-from-the-apple-tablet-latest-creation-event/

Re:price?

[dgatwood]

Nope.

Wi-fi versions are $499, $599, $699 for 16/32/64GB versions, respectively.

3G versions are $629, $729, $829, respectively.

Re:price?

[sopssa]

Nope.

Wi-fi versions are $499, $599, $699 for 16/32/64GB versions, respectively.

3G versions are $629, $729, $829, respectively.

$120 for 3G? Now just.. wtf? And does it even have both then, or is it either one that you choose?

3G is for outside. Wifi is for inside use. ffs.

Re:price?

[mrdoogee]

Almost $850 for what amounts to a Hi-res iPhone without voice service? Pass.

Re:price?

[Rycross]

The 3G version has both.

Re:price?

[quadelirus]

Of course it has both of them.

Re:price?

[sopssa]

That's still ridiculous price increase for merely getting 3G. What I also would like to know if it supports fallback to gprs in case 3G isn't available, as is usually outside cities.

Re:price?

[Man On Pink Corner]

It's unlocked, which means it's unsubsidized. The 3G data plan is pretty cheap.

Re:price?

[Aeros]

and without a camera

Re:price?

[gyrogeerloose]

$499 to $899, depending on how much memory you want and whether or not you want 3G.

Re:price?

[Rycross]

That's still ridiculous price increase for merely getting 3G.

I wonder what the hardware cost for the 3G stuff is? Regardless, prices are set based on what people are willing to pay. I'd wager that being able to browse the internet while loafing around in the park is worth $120 to some people. It seems a bit steep to me too, though, and I have to admit I did a bit of a double-take at the price. The main kick in the balls is that you have to pay $30 a month on top of that for the data plan...

What I also would like to know if it supports fallback to gprs in case 3G isn't available, as is usually outside cities.

Good question. It doesn't mention anything about that, so I'm assuming that its going to be useless outside of cities. Not a big deal for some people, I would guess, and that's probably why they're offering the WiFi-only versions too. That way, if your 3G coverage stinks, you don't have to pay extra for a useless feature.

Re:price?

[cabjf]

I bet AT&T is getting a cut from every 3G unit sold in exchange for the availability of a cheap, non-contract data plan. Plus, I get the wifi-only version doesn't have a sim card, so it's not just the 3G antenna being added for 130 dollars; it's also the sim card and associated hardware.

Re:price?

[rindeee]

No kidding. What a piece of crap. No front facing camera (for iChat). No internal GPS (seriously?!?!). No flash (which means no free TV via Hulu...you gotta buy it from iTunes. No phone (and I'm guessing no VoIP apps for the foreseeable future). More expensive that the highest end of Netbooks (which it is essentially one of sans a useful keyboard). I could so have gone for an Apple tablet done right. Not so in this case. HIGHLY disappointed.

Re:price?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope.

Wi-fi versions are $499, $599, $699 for 16/32/64GB versions, respectively.

3G versions are $629, $729, $829, respectively.

$120 for 3G? Now just.. wtf? And does it even have both then, or is it either one that you choose?

3G is for outside. Wifi is for inside use. ffs.

Do you even stop 1 second between posts? You know, you could use that time to actually *gasp* read a few lines before getting into this psychotic frothing and Apple hating? 3G has both. What's your next problem? Oh right, 130$ extra. Wait, it's unlocked. But wait, you still fucking complain. If you are so unhappy, don't buy the fucking thing. And if you are hating apple that much, laugh at them when the iPad fails. But just SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Fucking douchebag.

Re:price?

[sopssa]

It's unlocked, which means it's unsubsidized. The 3G data plan is pretty cheap.

I live in Europe so I dont need to worry about that anyway - I buy devices and mobile contracts differently.

And yes the 3G data plan is pretty cheap, 9e/month for 1mbit unlimited.

Re:price?

[sopssa]

Oh right, 130$ extra. Wait, it's unlocked.

And what does this have to do anything? Any device I buy is unlocked.

Re:price?

[tyrione]

Nope.

Wi-fi versions are $499, $599, $699 for 16/32/64GB versions, respectively.

3G versions are $629, $729, $829, respectively.

$120 for 3G? Now just.. wtf? And does it even have both then, or is it either one that you choose?

3G is for outside. Wifi is for inside use. ffs.

3G + GPS

Re:price?

[Anonymous Coward]

No problem.

Guess we'll wait nine months to see other makers with competitively-priced pads. The amazing thing is that this doesn't cost in the thousands of dollars, like all those other swivel-head 'tablets' you see at computer stores.

Re:price?

[sglewis100]

I wonder what the hardware cost for the 3G stuff is? Regardless, prices are set based on what people are willing to pay. I'd wager that being able to browse the internet while loafing around in the park is worth $120 to some people. It seems a bit steep to me too, though, and I have to admit I did a bit of a double-take at the price. The main kick in the balls is that you have to pay $30 a month on top of that for the data plan...

Really? $30 a month is a kick in the balls for data? You may or may not like the iPad, but $30 for unlimited data without the 5GB data cap is pretty damn competitive compared to those USB 3G sticks the carriers typically sell for $80 a month.

Re:price?

[Rycross]

$120 + $30/month is a kick in the balls. Well, actually, you're correct that its hyperbole on my part. I was comparing it to my iPhone (yes, an Apple product!) which I got for $200 ($30 a month for the data), but as some other posters pointed out, there's no contract and its unlocked. Taking that into consideration makes it seem a *lot* fairer.

Still, no Flash is going to be a deal-killer for me personally, I think. At first, I was thinking about getting one of these for my wife, but no Flash support means she can't watch Japanese TV over the internet while loafing on the couch.

Re:price?

[Tikkun]

Really? $30 a month is a kick in the balls for data?

Yes, it is. I pay $15 a month for unlimited data from AT&T. Of course, I have an unlocked Nokia E51 (i.e. it's a dumb phone that is mainly a modem for my notebook).

Re:price?

[manicb]

Didn't realise there was a 64Gb iPhone...

Re:price?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nitpick: Yes, there is a 64 Gigabit iPhone, more commonly called the 8GB iPhone.

Re:price?

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

>so it's not just the 3G antenna being added for 130 dollars; it's also the sim card and associated hardware

Right, that's why gsm phones are so expensive, all that added cost for the sim card and socket. Oh, wait...

Re:price?

[PopeRatzo]

It's unlocked

Where did you see that? I was hoping this was the case but I couldn't find any articles saying this would be an "unlocked" device.

Please let us know where you found that information, kthx. I'd like all the data before I go line up at the Apple Store on Michigan Avenue later tonight.

I'm so excited about the iPad that I can barely hold down solid food.

Re:price?

[John Whitley]

But the iPad is unlocked out of the gate -- no contract and no provider lock-in. Whether or not AT&T gets a cut, these data plans create interesting competitive price pressure.

Re:price?

[Tjp($)pjT]

And the 3G version includes GPS

Re:price?

[mxh83]

There's no "lock in" because you're paying more than full price. And there's no phone service. Sounds like you're pathetically attached to Apple.

Re:price?

[Anonymous Coward]

The 3G antenna is almost definitely the vast majority of the additional cost there. SIM card hardware is very, very simple; intentionally, so. The specs for SIM cards were put together almost two decades ago, for devices with chips so underpowered we'd scarcely call them processors today. They're incredible simple and easy to read. The hardware for reading these probably hasn't changed in years.
I haven't checked definitively (and I'm too lazy too right now), but I'd be willing to bet one could easily wire a reader for a SIM card with any old embedded processor with connections soldered to the card. In an afternoon. One-handedly. While watching porn.
For a company like Apple (or, well, any phone company, really), this is practically free. They just have to find a spot on the circuit board to stick it...they probably spend more time agonizing over where to place it than they do actually designing the hardware itself.

3G, on the other hand, involves some rather complicated signal processing. It takes beefy (expensive) processors, digital to analogue converters (and vice-versa), etc. It's something that is still being actively developed and refined. It's not a cheap technology (I believe there are also some licensing fees involved).

Re:price?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wireless. More space than a Nomad. Lame.

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/1816257

They claimed 10 hours of battery life on the original iPod? My first iPod (3rd gen) had less than that....

Is that an OLED screen?

[FooAtWFU]

Or just regular?

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[MoonBuggy]

It's LCD. IPS, to be specific.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[Anonymous Coward]

A power hungry LCD (relative to LCD's) in a portable device. Genius.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[SocietyoftheFist]

A cost decision I'm sure.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[ringm000]

IPS, PVA and MVA panels are much more expensive than TN.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[rinoid]

Have you SEEN OLED outside? It blows. Have you used an iPhone/Touch screen outside, it's pretty damn readable.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[Wingsy]

So power hungry that it gets 10-hour battery life. Geeez

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[DJRumpy]

Here are the full specs: http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[UnknowingFool]

Well current OLED screens have much more richer colors than LCD; however, the drawback is they are harder to see in direct light. Also they are more expensive. Maybe in the future when these disadvantages are addressed will Apple switch to an OLED screen.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[amRadioHed]

Probably. Too bad though. This isn't as likely to be used outside as a phone, so it would have been a perfect place for OLED.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard there is a bug that causes blurriness, but they plan on fixing it with an iPatch.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[hey]

That wiki page says: requiring a brighter backlight, which will consume more power, making this type of display less desirable for notebook computers. ... or tablets, I guess.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[icebike]

10 hours runtime on a charge.

No spinning hard drive or fans, and only 64gig memory max.

That's not impressive for a device this new. There would seem to be a lot of room in a device this big to pack in lots of battery. But no.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[LucidBeast]

OLED screen comes with iMaxiPad

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[Anonymous Coward]

also a 10 watt charger for a 25 Watt/hr battery, 3-4 hours charge time, for a less than a all day device. Hope it has swap-able batteries.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[falconwolf]

Well current OLED screens have much more richer colors than LCD; however, the drawback is they are harder to see in direct light. Also they are more expensive. Maybe in the future when these disadvantages are addressed will Apple switch to an OLED screen.

According to Apple's spec page the iPad uses an LED screen not LCD. The only thing missing is the "O", organic. It's also backlit, and has an ambient light sensor.

Falcon

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[Capsaicin]

So power hungry that it gets 10-hour battery life. Geeez

Yeah, my 1980s digital watch gets more than that. ;)

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[woozlewuzzle]

Granted I got my information from the live updates on Engadget and Gizmodo, but my understanding of the 10 hr runtime was when running video. So, not a maximum runtime but to demonstrate a runtime under a particular load. It is possible the feed got the details incorrect, but i don't consider 10 hrs all that bad for constant use.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[timeOday]

No, it has an LED backlight for its LCD screen. LED backlights are better than the older fluorescent type because they are brighter, more efficient, and last longer. On the other hand, at least on my T400, the LED backlight has a bit of strobing effect. But perhaps newer LED backlights do not.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[BrokenHalo]

Yeah, my 1980s digital watch gets more than that. ;)

Well, your digital watch seems to have nearly as much functionality as the iPad. If it runs on the same OS as the iPhone, then as far as I'm concerned that is an absolute show-stopper. I can pretty much understand why the iPhone is as popular as it is, but it's easy to forgive a phone for having a single-tasking operating system.

Persisting with that platform on a device approaching the size of a laptop is where the product loses me. It just doesn't have a big enough advantage over the laptop, especially since the LCD screen is no better.

I wouldn't attempt to predict the success or failure of the iPad, but if that depended on the reactions of people like me, it would fail dismally. I would rather have a MacBook Air: at least there's a real computer inside it. Fortunately for Apple, their success doesn't depend on me. I use and like their MacBooks for the same reason I like Linux on my desktop machines: the ability to pull up a decent CLI in a terminal window.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[fractoid]

If we're talking about cost decisions, what the hell is this thing's advantage over an iPod touch? A bigger screen so that older, more presbyopic people who don't like moving pictures can use it? Touchscreen is a good replacement for mouse/keyboard in a pocket-sized form factor but if you're looking at something bigger than a netbook, why not just use a friggin' netbook? Get one with a touch screen that folds into a tablet if you want, but when you need to type something, you'll have a keyboard right there.

It astonishes me, although I guess it shouldn't given Sturgeon's Law, that people will watch Jobs giving a laundry list of ways in which this device is stupid and defective and then praise it as innovation. "Doesn't have X" and "can't do X" are NOT FEATURES. *GAH*

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[MrYotsuya]

Not quite right. It's an IPS panel LCD screen, with an LED backlight .

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[Capsaicin]

[I]t's easy to forgive a phone for having a single-tasking operating system. Persisting with that platform on a device approaching the size of a laptop is where the product loses me.

I agree, and it first glance it seems crazy for a company whose flagship OS is a fairly nice adapatation of microkernel architecture for GUI-land. The idea clearly is the leverage off the surprising (even to Apple) success of the iPhone appstore. I guess you can blame them for following where the customers are leading.

The main thing I dislike about modern Apple hardware are the keyboards, I like a bit of feedback, so the idea of an onscreen keyboard fills me with horror. But maybe this isn't really meant as a laptop replacement.

I would rather have a MacBook Air

I would rather have the 13" MacBook Pro ... oh wait I do! ;)

I use and like their MacBooks for the same reason I like Linux on my desktop machines: the ability to pull up a decent CLI in a terminal window.

A usable shell and a GUI that quite frankly whips the pants off Gnome or KDE imo, yup OSX appeals. (When the linux box at home finally gave up the ghost, I installed it on the iMac via Parallels).

Yeah we are not the target market for this particular toy. You know my wife has been eyeing off the Kindle recently, and she has zero interest in a laptop. So I wouldn't be 100% surprised if this device eventually finds its way into my house ...

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[Capsaicin]

err... "can't blame them"

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[h4rm0ny]

What I want with it is a stylus, but it doesn't appear to have that. In which case, I'm hanging on to see what the Courier is like. I want hand-writing recognition and a convenient book format. I think the iPad might be a handy gizmo for lying in bed browsing / reading, but I can do that with a laptop. I'm not so sure it will be useful for doing work / taking notes when out and about. Which is what would justify paying hundreds of pounds for.

I guess the real question shouldn't be endless arguing over whether the tablet is good or bad, but what is it for?

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[fractoid]

Not you!

I'm sorry, I felt strangely compelled to post that.

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[h4rm0ny]

I can't see the slightest bit of relevance to what I said, but it is funny. :)

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[terrasanta]

Our Father Our Father, Who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. http://holylandprayers.net/ or http://terrasanta-products.com/

Re:Is that an OLED screen?

[treeves]

Why did you say "as a phone"? If it were OLED, you couldn't use it outside as anything but a paperweight.

No flash support

[vivek7006]

Which means no hulu.com, espn360.com or fancast.com. Somehow Mr. Jobs is touting this as a feature.

Re:No flash support

[mdm-adph]

Yep, this picture (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0128-rm-eng.jpg) pretty much spells it out.

The fact that they didn't even try to hide this during their usually precise demo of the product is surprising.

Re:No flash support

[saihung]

Bingo. This is a huge problem. Will Adobe even be invited on board to write a plugin? Apple should have sorted this out before releasing this. Even my Nokia E71 supports Flash, for God's sake.

Re:No flash support

[Enderandrew]

If you can free TV shows and movies streaming over Flash, why buy them on iTunes?

I don't expect Flash on this or the iPhone anytime soon.

Re:No flash support

[MikeKD]

It is a feature, for their iTunes partners.

Re:No flash support

[jfenwick]

It is a feature because it means an insecure plugin that security experts have said will cause more remote exploits than any other software this year is banned from the OS. Webkit already supports HTML 5. Those sites need to upgrade their technology if they don't want to endanger their customers.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple killed the floppy. Maybe they are doing us a favor. I hope so, Flash is a horrible creation.

Re:No flash support

[Jeng]

I'm thinking that Jobs ain't exactly a TV watcher. It just doesn't seem to be his niche.

Why just look at the fail that is the Apple TV.

Re:No flash support

[polar red]

No flash ? GOOD RIDDANCE. maybe flash will take a big hit, OR adobe fscking FIXES it(NOT!).

Re:No flash support

[nine-times]

On the plus side, maybe this will start to pressure sites like Hulu to find a better way to handle things.

Also, I bet the 10 hour battery life is based on some decent hardware-accelerated h264 decoding. Watch video in Flash and that number goes out the window.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

I rather have Apple kill Flash. Flash is a piece of shit. HTML5 is the future.

Re:No flash support

[pydev]

Flash can be made completely secure by sandboxing it at the OS level. If iPhone can't do it, it's a problem with its OS, not with Flash.

Re:No flash support

[Professor_UNIX]

Do netbooks do a decent job playing Flash though with that slow Atom processor? I've thought about getting one, but I hear the performance isn't that great, especially under Linux.

Re:No flash support

[BitZtream]

It is a feature in my opinion, and nothing of value is lost.

Time for morons to get of the flash bandwagon. No one really bitches about not having it on the phone, except the people who scream 'I'm not buying because it doesn't do flash!!'

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Cheap flash (the other kind) devices and PC BIOSes eventually supporting booting off them were what killed floppies, not Apple.

Re:No flash support

[TheKidWho]

If you get a netbook with an Nvidia ION it can play flash video very well. $399 for the HP Mini311.

Re:No flash support

[tepples]

On the plus side, maybe this will start to pressure sites like Hulu to find a better way to handle things.

Not likely. Studios that publish their video on Hulu will want to have copy deterrence no less effective than what its Flash Player already implements. If anything, Hulu would follow Netflix and switch to Silverlight with DRM. This would work on a hypothetical Zune Pad even if not iPad.

the 10 hour battery life is based on some decent hardware-accelerated h264 decoding. Watch video in Flash and that number goes out the window.

Flash video nowadays is H.264. (Older Flash video is H.263.) If Flash Player can't hardware-accelerate H.264 video playback, that's a defect in Flash Player.

Re:No flash support

[Joe U]

Bingo!

Flash and Silverlight won't see the inside of this box unless something huge happens with Google and media distribution.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuch Flash.

Re:No flash support

[MBGMorden]

No one really bitches about not having it on the phone, except the people who scream 'I'm not buying because it doesn't do flash!!'

So let me get this straight: No one is complaining about this, except for the people who are?

Thanks for the insight man. You have any ideas on how to solve this whole "economy" thing?

Re:No flash support

[LaminatorX]

I think it likely has as much to do with the impact of Flash's unquenchable thirst for CPU cycles on battery life.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a feature because it means an insecure plugin that security experts have said will cause more remote exploits than any other software this year is banned from the OS. Webkit already supports HTML 5. Those sites need to upgrade their technology if they don't want to endanger their customers.

Well not everyone likes to develop in Javascript and I shudder at the thought of having to develop a large application with it even though there are some promising frameworks like qooxdoo available. While HTML 5 might be more open (oh, except that little video flaw) I am not happy that Javascript is going to be the lingua france for developing complex applications with it. Flash (and even Silverlight) have their place for rich client applications.

Re:No flash support

[onefriedrice]

Will Adobe even be invited on board to write a plugin?

Hopefully not. I don't know of any products with worse security records than Acrobat Reader and Flash. It's time for Flash to just go away. Fortunately, unlike FF, Safari does support h.264 which will surely be supported by hulu et al. eventually.

Re:No flash support

[fiannaFailMan]

If you can free TV shows and movies streaming over Flash, why buy them on iTunes?

I don't expect Flash on this or the iPhone anytime soon.

Er, Flash isn't on the iPhone? How come I'm able to watch all those youtube and other web movies on mine then?

Re:No flash support

[geoffrobinson]

Look, I like my iPhone so I don't feel a desire to get this.

But if this can kill flash, I hope it is insanely successful.

Re:No flash support

[commodoresloat]

I think youtube provides videos in a more readable format through its mobile website; I can watch them even on my Palm Centro.

Re:No flash support

[Trails]

Yes! If by "future" you mean "marginal enhancements to a decade old spec, solving problems that have already been fixed, and still isn't done yet, let alone supported" then yes, future indeed. I'm thoroughly prepared to have my mind blown by it, on the five example pages w3c will eventually put out. Phenomenal.

Re:No flash support

[ByOhTek]

even with that, it's still got very limited disk space (why no rotational drive option?), and the limited iphone style OS (why not full mac OS).

I'd rather have something that can hold at least a 250GB hdd and full MacOS/Windows.

Actually, with those, and give it at least a 14" screen, and they would switch me away from Toshiba.

Re:No flash support

[jo_ham]

Youtube serves up an H.264 version of the video to your iPhone. Not all videos are converted yet (google is massively numbercrunching behind the scenes to convert older ones). If the phone meets a video with no H.264 version it just says "cannot display movie at this time" or something like that.

You can use ClickToFlash on Safari in 10.6 to tell the Youtube site to serve the H.264 iPhone version to your browser instead of the flash version too - much nicer.

Re:No flash support

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

So let me get this straight: No one is complaining about this, except for the people who are?

He's saying that nobody who knows better is bitching about it.

It's like me bitching about how I won't use Linux because it doesn't have any useful apps for me. Linux users would think I'm a tard.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

> Apple killed the floppy. Maybe they are doing us a favor. I hope so, Flash is a horrible creation.

Help me out here with understanding all the Flash hate?

I've never had a problem with it, except that later releases run slow on my 5-year-old G4 laptop.

So far, GTK is the only thing I've seen that provides animation quality anywhere near Flash...so what's the beef? Memory/CPU usage? Proprietary license? What/

Re:No flash support

[Larry Lightbulb]

And if it had wheels you could drive it around. It's not replacing notebooks, it's something different.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the insight man. You have any ideas on how to solve this whole "economy" thing?

Buy more stuff. Then people will have more money.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

I think his point is that there are millions of people with iPhones who've discovered that they really don't need Flash. Then there's a handful of whiners who think they do. It's like someone at the beginning of the 20th century crying about how they won't buy a car because it doesn't have anywhere to put your buggy whip.

Re:No flash support

[quadelirus]

Flash and Silverlight won't see the inside of this box because they are both proprietary and HTML 5 can do everything flash or silverlight can do in a standards based way (just ask google voice). Also Flash and Silverlight are good attack vectors--why would Apple want a 3rd party responsible for the security of the product when HTML 5 is going to replace the other technologies anyway.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Economy is not bad, except where it is!

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

OS level sure, but could you show an example of that done in a browser? Sandboxing plugins is damn hard. I don't think anyone's done it yet.

Re:No flash support

[CAIMLAS]

I highly doubt Hulu or anyone else will ever support H264. By the time they start to move away from Flash, there will be something else on the horizon.

There's a reason why they encapsulate their shows/movies in Flash and inhibit more than a token 'buffer' (making a marginally slow connection, either to or from Hulu, useless for their site). They want to make it as difficult as possible for people to 'steal' the show from them.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Because I won't buy the device. No Flash means no paid streaming either, like Crunchyroll, where most shows aren't on itunes at all.

It's a multiply locked device, both in hardware, software, and content. Damn nice, but useless for what I was waiting for without Flash.

Only way I'll get it is if I can find a way to take a Flash stream like Hulu and dump it to drive, re-encode, and serve it up.

No too is DAMN stupid.

And I can't find out what the screen res is. It just says doubling, which means no 720p.

Good pricing, but for the price of the 3G 64GB, I can pick up a damn damn nice Sony Vaio. I want to like the device, and in my respects it works, but the lockdowns are IRRITATING as hell to the point it's freaking useless for a lot of video streaming.

Re:No flash support

[e2d2]

I assume you mean the QuickTime player because h.264 is just an encoding method, not a content player. Flash Player 9 supports h.264

Re:No flash support

[nine-times]

Flash video nowadays is H.264. (Older Flash video is H.263.) If Flash Player can't hardware-accelerate H.264 video playback, that's a defect in Flash Player.

Yes, it's a defect in the Flash player, and it's one of the reasons why using Flash video players might not be a great idea if you have a viable alternative.

As far as DRM, I'm sure Apple would be willing to work with studios to make sure their content is protected if it meant they could get free (ad-supported) streaming to the iPad and Apple TV.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Do netbooks do a decent job playing Flash though with that slow Atom processor? I've thought about getting one, but I hear the performance isn't that great, especially under Linux.

I have never used netbooks. The real issue is that at with the meager resolutions that portable devices play video under, they are probably not taxed as much as a high-res PC running fullcolor.

My issue with flash video is that every year that passes, full screen playback gets slower on my PCs and laptops. Huge resolutions are becoming standard for streaming on Hulu and Youtube, forcing the player's bandwidth to choke and framerates to go down to under 5 per second. My single core machine with this problem runs Windows, and a browser, and then a custom player that rides on flash. Now, I know the overhead can be great, but in the single core world, I don't think a 1GHZ tablet, even if optimized, could beat a single core 1.7GHZ desktop even if Flash were available for both.

Re:No flash support

[idontgno]

Yes, exactly. It's a notebook with no keyboard. Completely different thing.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! DIDN'T YOU HEAR STEVE!?!?!

Re:No flash support

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

But you're just assuming that millions of people with iPhones have discovered that they really don't need flash. That's not a rational conclusion.

Lets extend that logic to a different domain: healthcare

Millions of Americans have discovered they don't need health insurance! They continue to go to the emergency room when they are sick! The only people who think they do are small in number and whine a lot about it.

Re:No flash support

[jedidiah]

...except this is a bit more precise than "where's the apps".

If this thing has the same browser as the iPhone does then it will fail to
deliver on expectations on some of us that are actually waiting on the thing.
While the lack of Flash here certainly poses a major problem, the fact that
this thing really isn't a general purpose web surfing platform in general is
far more troubling.

The lack of Flash is just another reflection of that.

Re:No flash support

[jonbryce]

You can watch youtube because there is an app for it. You can watch iPlayer and TVCatchup (from a UK IP address) because they provide h.264 as an alternative to flash video. Otherwise, you probably can't watch it.

Re:No flash support

[TheKidWho]

It's not FLOSS!!!

Re:No flash support

[MistrBlank]

Actually it's worse, because there are movies that I know are new videos and are in h.264 format and are NOT being served to the iPhone.

I'm surprised more coverage hasn't been brought to bear on this.

Re:No flash support

[Mongoose Disciple]

I rather have Apple kill Flash.

If you're going to wish for something unrealistic and beyond their power, at least shoot for world peace.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Flash has been able to be exported to the iPhone for over a year. You mean you don't expect the Flash plug-in for Safari any time soon.

Re:No flash support

[0100010001010011]

Hopefully it'll get those sites to drop Flash. HTML5 is here and can easily replace all the need for flash on all the sites listed.

Looks like it'd be a great time to start a website that only did HTML5 video of sports events. You'd have the entire iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch market cornered rather quickly.

ESPN isn't going to want to miss out on a very large demographic. I bet they (and others) will be adding HTML5 support rather soon.

Re:No flash support

[Aeros]

isnt this basically a mac laptop your describing?

Re:No flash support

[Lunix Nutcase]

I highly doubt Hulu or anyone else will ever support H264.

You mean except for the fact that Hulu currently does use H.264? Same with youtube?

From Hulu's about page:

Leveraging the H.264 capability of the new Flash Player

Re:No flash support

[jdgeorge]

I highly doubt Hulu or anyone else will ever support H264. By the time they start to move away from Flash, there will be something else on the horizon.

You can watch YouTube videos on a Palm Pre because YouTube videos are also encoded in h.264 (the Pre doesn't yet have an Adobe Flash player).

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully not. I don't know of any products with worse security records than Acrobat Reader and Flash.

How about the Quick Time plugin that is forcibly installed whenever I install iTunes?

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

No one complains about the economy except those who scream that we are in a recession.

Re:No flash support

[Mongoose Disciple]

Not likely. Studios that publish their video on Hulu will want to have copy deterrence no less effective than what its Flash Player already implements. If anything, Hulu would follow Netflix and switch to Silverlight with DRM.

This is a great point, and it cuts to the heart of what everyone talking about how HTML 5 will kill Flash any minute now is missing: technical superiority and especially a greater tendency towards freedom in a technology are no guarantees of its ascendancy, especially where old media companies are in any way involved.

Let me be clear, I hate Flash and I think it would be great if it went away, but as long as A) There are a ton of existing flash apps/sites that no one is in a rush to rewrite, B) It's the technology that most of the people who create the kind of flashy user experience websites are used to using / have experience with and C) People who own the rights to movies, TV shows, etc. think they can protect their revenue stream better by using it, it just isn't going away fast.

Re:No flash support

[A12m0v]

Flash is proprietary I'd like to see it fade into oblivion. Maybe the iPhone and iPad will be what it takes to get people considering HTML5 instead of Flash.
YouTube now has an HTML5 beta, and some other streaming sites as well.

Re:No flash support

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I agree with that. I just don't see it as a total deal-breaker, just makes its perceived cost value lower to me.

On the topic of Flash, though, I've had my iPhone for over a year. No Flash. I thoguht I'd hate that but I'm not actively missing it. (Well occasionally I wish I could get Hulu on it.) It's one of those things where the theory of it sounds really bad but in reality doesn't line up. Unfortunately, this is why the fanboys and haters get lit up so easily. The ones with practical experience are arguing with the ones that don't have it, but think they're right anyway because of their knowledge of blinkie things. Funny thing is, I have seen a phone with Flash and I watched its battery flatten out right before my eyes.

It's for this reason I'm hesitant to proclaim how useless something is for lack of a feature. I did that with both Linux and OSX and only exposed my ignorance.

Re:No flash support

[A12m0v]

Memory/CPU usage? Proprietary license?/

exactly

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate flash because the CPU hog that it is. I'm "forced" to upgrade a processor to watch video that is crappier in quality than the mpegs I had no trouble playing before. I think that misuse of flash is the reason for the hate. Animation? Sure, I don't watch much animation, so you might have a good point, but the whole flash container shit that is used for video makes my machine slow to a crawl. It isn't like it is high definition or anything, just some youtube shit that won't play on an older machine. In the end, I don't really care too much about youtube, but others also use the same bullshit flash video. For what reason? DRM? "value" added features? Flash to me brings little if any added value. It is just an overused tool that annoys those of us not on the bleeding edge of computer hardware.

Re:No flash support

[black88]

Fuck Flash. Seriously. HTML5 or DIE!

Re:No flash support

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

and recently, youtube is giving users of chrome and safari the option to stream h.264 directly to the browser if you sig nfor their HTML5 beta.

Re:No flash support

[phorest]

We have a Dell Inspiron Mini 10, It has an Atom Z5xx with 1G RAM running XP Home. It has HDMI out and we watch Netflix all the time over a wifi-G connection. It drives a 52in. plasma and looks beautiful for what it is. That's about all we use it for.

Re:No flash support

[Steve Max]

Depends on the exact CPUs. A 1GHz Cortex A8 should run circles around a 1.7GHz Netburst-based Celeron, for example.

Re:No flash support

[binford2k]

Flash can be made most secure by simply getting rid of that garbage.

Re:No flash support

[shutdown -p now]

I rather have Apple kill Flash.

I'd rather have Google kill Flash. Apple's motives are likely to be more sinister.

That said, in this day and age, lack of Flash support really is not an option for a device, the primary function of which is web surfing, like it or not.

Re:No flash support

[Tokerat]

With the advent of HTML 5 <video> tags, Flash will soon be unnecessary. Browsers can also play audio, display vector graphics, and network behind the scenes, plus it's all interactive via JavaScript.

Tell me, with all those features maturing quickly, what is the point of duplicating that effort with a plug-in, other than making stupid animations for Newgrounds?

Re:No flash support

[bonch]

YouTube and Vimeo already support it. Replacing Flash is much more than a "marginal enhancement."

But hey, you're welcome to live in 1999 forever and stick with HTML4. It's what Adobe wants.

Re:No flash support

[poetmatt]

well, they seemed to imply that it will have an app for hulu or something. It doesn't make up for the fact that for a $500 you're getting a 10" ipod, which is basically worthless. You can get a $400 netbook with significantly more functionality for less (toshiba s1120 is my most recent example that even my very not-technical 64 year old mother bought).

Re:No flash support

[Neoprofin]

If that were really an issue people wouldn't be playing 3D games on their poor overworked iPod touch.

Re:No flash support

[gobbo]

people in black turtlenecks watch movies, not network TV

Re:No flash support

[naz404]

Wow. Like the iPhone and OSX aren't proprietary. Perhaps you'd like to see those fade into Oblivion too?

Re:No flash support

[Swift2001]

You're watching the H.264 version.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Flash supports hardware H.264 decoding in the 10.1 beta.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

No hes saying that it really doesnt matter if it has flash because it is doing fine on its own and the people who bitch about flash are just complaining about apple being stupid. Thats what hes saying. Slashdot cynicism and circle jerking at its finest. btw dont you have to bitch about flash being internet cancer in some other non-apple related discussion?

Re:No flash support

[DdJ]

ESPN will have a solution. It'll probably be a standalone app, maybe an update of their existing (iPhone) app. I expect it to work like the MLB.com app that was demoed.

We'll have to see what happens with Hulu. I half expect Hulu and Netflix apps to appear within six months.

Re:No flash support

[Swift2001]

Go to YouTube and enroll in the HTML 5 beta. Except that there's no full-screen there, it rocks.

Flash does have some good content, but it bites the big one.

Re:No flash support

[MojoRilla]

You can run plugins in a sandbox in Chrome. Use the --safe-plugins command line switch.

Re:No flash support

[Swift2001]

It will dock with a keyboard.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

just a big sized itouch. Not attractive.

Re:No flash support

[pydev]

And your Mac can be made more secure by removing OS X. What's your point?

I don't like Flash, but like it or not, there's a lot of content available in it. And the reason Apple isn't offering it has nothing to do with security, it has to do with wanting to control the app store.

Re:No flash support

[Chris Pimlott]

You can use ClickToFlash on Safari in 10.6 to tell the Youtube site to serve the H.264 iPhone version to your browser instead of the flash version too - much nicer.

Or, as of last week, you can have YouTube give you H.264 videos with HTML5.

Re:No flash support

[Swift2001]

Apple AND Google AND Microsoft AND HTML5 may kill off the bloated, useless crap, though.

Re:No flash support

[Midnight Thunder]

If you movie is H264, requiring the Flash player, then why not simply make MP4/Flash. Nobody says you need to stream to a web page. You can use a dedicated application as YouTube do and then perform anything encryption you wish. If you don't care so much about people hacking and downloading the stream, then just use the video tag in the HTML5 spec.

Re:No flash support

[BitZtream]

Too bad anyone who wants to rip this can just use a virtual machine ... Its amazing what you can do with a few hacks to VirtualBox's video subsystem. :)

Flash, Silverlight, windows media player, who gives a crap, it all turns out the same way on my media center PC.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Which means no hulu.com, espn360.com or fancast.com. Somehow Mr. Jobs is touting this as a feature.

And a lot fewer ads jiggling on regular web pages that you visit.

I generally surf with Flash turn off on my Mac (unless hitting Youtube once or twice a week), and have ClicktoFlash on all my Firefox installations (work machine).

Re:No flash support

[hitmark]

there is a powervr core in there for 3D stuff...

Re:No flash support

[jedidiah]

An iphone has the benefit of satisfying another hard requirement. It has
the luxury of being a mediocre media player, or a really bad camera or
terribly anemic when it comes to storage space. It also can get away with
having a relatively lame web browser and being mostly dependent on "apps"
that are just a way to repackage fairly standard web pages in an entirely
proprietary manner.

It's in your pocket anyways because you need a phone.

This iPad doesn't have that advantage.

A device that doesn't address the shortcomings of the iphone is just... redundant.

Re:No flash support

[binford2k]

That must be why they don't let you run web apps!

Oh, wait, they do. Maybe it really has something to do with what they've stated many times. Flash is CPU hungry and would eat the battery for lunch. Yes. It's garbage. I'm happy that my phone doesn't do flash.

Re:No flash support

[saider]

If an app needs to be sandboxed to be secure then the problem is with the App, not the OS.

Re:No flash support

[Jason Pollock]

I'd willingly give up hulu.com to avoid the flash advertisements.

Re:No flash support

[BitZtream]

Except the first part is actually correct. Millions of people with iPhones dont' really notice they cant' use flash.

There are a few places where you go that use flash for some critical part of their site and those don't work, but the popularity of the iPhone has made it so most of the sites you would want to visit on a credit card sized screen have made it so you don't need flash.

The people who complain about it not having flash are also the same people that brag about blocking flash in their browser as well in many cases.

Its just an example of people whining about stuff they have no intention of every using.

Re:No flash support

[itsdapead]

How come that, here on Slashdot, Flash is usually regarded as evil, spawn of the devil, violater of web pages, scourge of the internet and mortal enemy of standards-based web... until Apple don't support it.

Yet Apple are one of the few companies with a high enough profile to actually stand a ghost of a chance of persuading major websites to look at standards-based solutions (as distinct from Microsoft, who'd presumably prefer them to use Silverlight).

Re:No flash support

[billcopc]

HTML5 doesn't actually specify a native, portable video format. It only specifies the TAG that will reference the video file. Implementation details are left as an exercise for the content providers and browser developers. In layman's terms, whatever Google decides is best will become the de facto standard. Whether that's H.264, Theora, or something else, it's not for the W3C to decide.

In light of this non-commited stance, Flash video is at least slightly better than HTML5 Video tags, since the codecs are bundled with the Flash player, so anywhere you can run Flash, you can play Flash video. With HTML5, you could (and will) end up with a scenario where the browser supports HTML5, but lacks the required codec to play a certain video, and then we're right back where we started fifteen years ago with platform-specific media support. E.g. Sorenson codecs on Mac, WMV on Windows, and MP4 / H.264 locked away in patent hell.

Re:No flash support

[BitZtream]

Those who say 'I'm not buying it because it doesn't do flash' in general were never going to buy it, its just a troll.

The iPhone doesn't support flash, yet it flies off the shelves.

The iPhone doesn't allow you to install any random apps you want, and requires them to be purchased from apple with their blessing, yet it flies off the shelves.

People who do buy the device don't really bitch about not having it. Everytime you see someone bitching they follow up with 'I'm not buying it!'

Reality check: They never were, its just an excuse to troll.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know of any products with worse security records than Acrobat Reader and Flash.

Wait.. let me think hard... very hard.. Microsoft Windows? Nope, it was not hard at all.

Re:No flash support

[Stele]

It can. Every iPhone app is already sandboxed.

Re:No flash support

[cowscows]

There's a big difference between the display device and the content.

Re:No flash support

[ClosedSource]

So this device fully supports HTML 5?

If paying for everything via iTunes makes you feel like you're doing your part to destroy Flash, fine, but most people will buy based on what the product does for them, not what it will do to others.

Re:No flash support

[FlyingBishop]

They were demoing how you can browse the web and never have to worry about obtrusive Flash ads.

Which is actually a feature I can get behind. That said, unless iBooks is opened up to other platforms like iTunes, this is just going to be another Apple TV - after all, that's what killed it and every other set-top box is that it's not worthwhile to buy a device that's locked into a single market when there are other markets that give you the full range of programming.

Re:No flash support

[PenguSven]

Well not everyone likes to develop in Javascript and I shudder at the thought of having to develop a large application with it even though there are some promising frameworks like qooxdoo available. While HTML 5 might be more open (oh, except that little video flaw) I am not happy that Javascript is going to be the lingua france for developing complex applications with it. Flash (and even Silverlight) have their place for rich client applications.

The main use for Flash on the web is video. There are much better ways to play video than through Flash.

As for Apps, I have a couple of points for you:

• Flash uses ActionScript, which is based on ECMAScript, the same as JavaScript, and has a lot of similarities.
• If you want to create a "desktop" like app and you're too stupid to learn JavaScript + CSS, write an app using Cocoa and submit it to the app store.

Re:No flash support

[ravenscar]

Meh - I don't bitch about the issue on my iPhone because...it's my PHONE. I don't expect it to be the end all be all of web surfing. If it doesn't load certain pages I'll live with it. The fact that my phone offers me a reasonably good browser, a rich media experience, and a few other worthwhile features makes it better than most other phones out there.

On the other hand, Apple is marketing the iPad as the best thing with which to browse the web. Well, when a web browsing tool won't allow me to view the full content on many media sites I call that a problem. One of the core (not extraneous) features of the product is severely limited. That would set me to bitching.

Re:No flash support

[thetoadwarrior]

Because the movie file is not flash. Flash plays a movie file. Apple grabs that file and plays it in something else.

Re:No flash support

[Sal Zeta]

Not likely. Studios that publish their video on Hulu will want to have copy deterrence no less effective than what its Flash Player already implements. If anything, Hulu would follow Netflix and switch to Silverlight with DRM. This would work on a hypothetical Zune Pad even if not iPad.

Or just, you know, publish them through the factory-installed iTunes, using the fairplay DRM.

Re:No flash support

[ClosedSource]

The youtube experience:

1) Try to find the show. If you can't find it you're SOL

2) Find show part 1. Move closer to the monitor to recognize the characters.

3) Find show part 2. Oops wrong part 2, this one has a gap.

4) Find show part 3. Shit there is no part 3, you're SOL.

Re:No flash support

[daveime]

And Quicktime *isn't* proprietary, and never had any attack vectors ?

Apple will no more support HTML5 than anyone else with a vested interest of selling their own spyware / nagware / crapware (delete as appropriate).

Re:No flash support

[quadelirus]

The iPhone supports HTML 5 (at least video tag and Google is using it for voice), and this is running the iPhone OS, so yes it supports HTML 5. Maybe not fully, but for the things you reference it works. Vimeo and YouTube work fine sans Flash on the iPhone. Seriously, why do we still want Flash? It's buggy and a security problem, the browsers should (and increasingly do) just handle those sorts of things internally.

Re:No flash support

[Nimey]

I'll take "Internet Explorer" for $500, Alex.

Re:No flash support

[Judge_Fire]

Er, Flash isn't on the iPhone? How come I'm able to watch all those youtube and other web movies on mine then?

Because you're actually watching h.264, not Flash. YouTube converted their stuff, as did Vimeo and now support both. This was partly for HTML5, too.

Re:No flash support

[quadelirus]

Sure Quicktime has had problems, but then I'm only depending on one company for security fixes. If you have flash and safari you are depending on two which means less security.

And what are you talking about saying that Apple won't support HTML 5. It already does, at least it supports enough HTML 5 that every flash app I use can (and has) been replaced by iPhone ready HTML 5 apps.

Re:No flash support

[Sandbags]

Hulu and Youtube are already beta testing HTML 5. This will be replacing flash in months... Adobe is dead.

Re:No flash support

[ClosedSource]

"It's like me bitching about how I won't use Linux because it doesn't have any useful apps for me. Linux users would think I'm a tard."

Being called a "tard" by Linux users might cause a rise in social status.

You may think non-technical people are fools, but they will be the ones who determine if this new product will succeed or fail.

Re:No flash support

[ArcherB]

I'd rather have something that can hold at least a 250GB hdd and full MacOS/Windows.

If it had 250GB and a full MacOS, it would be a Mac, sans the keyboard.

Besides, if it had a full OS and desktop level storage and power, it would compete with the Mac. The way it stands, it too big to compete with the iphone/pod and too underpowered to compete with the Mac. It's perfect from a marketing perspective. They found the niche between the two and filled it without overlapping either.

Re:No flash support

[grub]

Doubling resolution is for current AppStore apps. The new SDK supports the higher resolutions.

Re:No flash support

[tyrione]

WRONG!

ESPN, Hulu, YouTube [Google] and many others are moving to H.264 backends w/o Flash. Check out the licensee list for H.264 for a reference.

Re:No flash support

[mr_death]

Not to mention the fact that it is a steaming pile of insecurity.

Re:No flash support

[DeadPixels]

In that case, I don't expect to see HTML5 support, either, considering YouTube and a few other major video streaming sites are experimenting with it now.

Unless, of course, it already supports HTML5 and I've missed it in the onslaught of coverage. A quick scan of TFAs didn't reveal anything, but if anyone knows differently, please let me know.

Re:No flash support

[ClosedSource]

Yes, it's like a notebook but without fulfilling any needs.

Re:No flash support

[cheesybagel]

Actually Crunchyroll has some iPhone app as well (alpha). Still, yeah, Flash support is interesting.

Re:No flash support

[bemenaker]

Yes, even the all Intel version. The ION version is definitely better though.

Re:No flash support

[chris.alex.thomas]

sorry to spoil your party, but isnt the whole point of accelerating javascript higher and higher in performance terms, along with native video codecs and search optimisation all part of the worlds effort to reduce our dependance on flash? so it sounds like apple isnt on it's own, youtube itself will see flash usage drop visibly, then you'll only have those full page flash websites to deal with and they are only written in flash because SVG isnt good enough/supported enough yet. what happens then? (disclaimer: it'll be 10 years before microsoft supports SVG, either that, or nobody will care because nobody weill use IE in those days)

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

So you'd rather they don't offer the feature at all instead of giving the user the option of enabling/disabling by choice?

Hmm, ok. Have another glass of Kool-Aid!

Re:No flash support

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

Somehow Mr. Jobs is touting this as a feature.

For many of us, total protection from Flash is considered a feature.

Re:No flash support

[ClosedSource]

"Hopefully it'll get those sites to drop Flash."

Even in Steve Jobs' wettest of wet dreams he can't imagine the market share to be high enough for this device to motivate people to drop Flash for that reason alone.

Re:No flash support

[gilgongo]

Which means no hulu.com, espn360.com or fancast.com. Somehow Mr. Jobs is touting this as a feature.

HTML 5, baby, HTML 5.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe it was on purpose...you know...use standards instead of plugins.
i don't get why flash should be supported...

Re:No flash support

[gaspar ilom]

That's Apple's fault for not exposing the relevant APIs, according to Adobe:

In Flash Player 10.1, H.264 hardware acceleration is not supported under either Linux or Mac OS X. [...] Mac OS X does not expose access to the required APIs. The Flash Player team will continue to evaluate adding hardware acceleration to Linux and Mac OS X in future releases.

Seems like anti-competitive behavior coming from Apple, there.

Re:No flash support

[binford2k]

Yes, I'd rather they focus on the shit that I actually use.

And each additional option they add reduces usability. Come out of your basement someday.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, of course nothing google does is sinister, they're even worse than apple!

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Flash and Silverlight won't see the inside of this box because they are both proprietary and HTML 5 can do everything flash or silverlight can do in a standards based way (just ask google voice). Also Flash and Silverlight are good attack vectors--why would Apple want a 3rd party responsible for the security of the product when HTML 5 is going to replace the other technologies anyway.

hahahahaha, because Apple loves open standards? No... they just don't like proprietary formats that they don't control. Apple would happily watch HTML 5 die if it meant wider adoption for a proprietary Apple format.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

...

Flash video nowadays is H.264. (Older Flash video is H.263.) If Flash Player can't hardware-accelerate H.264 video playback, that's a defect in Flash Player.

You lie!

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Gordon's Alive!?

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple only killed the floppy on Apple computers.

Cheap writable CDs/DVDs and flash drives killed the floppy.

Re:No flash support

[quadelirus]

Fair enough, but point still stands. Apple knows users want this type of functionality, and they don't want another company to have control of it, so they'll support HTML 5--who cares what they "Why?" is?

Re:No flash support

[nine-times]

Yup, done and done. I do watch Hulu, though, and I'd like a better way to watch that; I'd love to be able to watch it on my Apple TV (no, owning an Apple TV isn't THAT pathetic. I tried installing Boxee and it was super-slow and it will play Hulu, but it looks choppy and horrible.

If Apple could negotiate Hulu and Netflix streaming for their AppleTV and iPad, they'd really have something.

Re:No flash support

[ArbitraryDescriptor]

More likely factors:
Having no means to control an internet full of Flash apps and games vs the App Store
Hulu, Netflix, and the like vs iTunes video.

Re:No flash support

[Danathar]

The popularity of Apple's products mean that it's those sites that will have to conform to the Apple environment and not vice versa if they want the people using Apple's products.

Quite honestly Java would not bother me so much as it's now GPL'd.

Flash and Silverlight are proprietary runtime environments. Yes, so is Apple's stuff but I'd rather run stuff using HTML5 and Javascript than Flash and/or Silverlight.

Re:No flash support

[31415926535897]

No one really bitches about not having it on the phone, except the people who scream 'I'm not buying because it doesn't do flash!!'

So let me get this straight: No one is complaining about this, except for the people who are?

Thanks for the insight man. You have any ideas on how to solve this whole "economy" thing?

I have an idea along those lines. Let the economy work for everybody, except those it doesn't work for.

Re:No flash support

[Totenglocke]

even with that, it's still got very limited disk space (why no rotational drive option?), and the limited iphone style OS (why not full mac OS).

I'd rather have something that can hold at least a 250GB hdd and full MacOS/Windows.

Actually, with those, and give it at least a 14" screen, and they would switch me away from Toshiba.

Apple already makes such a device! It's called a "Macbook Pro".

Re:No flash support

[Lars T.]

So let me get this straight: No one is complaining about this, except for the people who are?

No, no one is complaining about this, except for the people who wouldn't buy one even if it did play Flash.

Re:No flash support

[MBGMorden]

Wait a minute. You mean that people who don't like particular features or limitations of a product probably won't buy it?

You might be onto something here. All those stupid customers at the drive through who keep driving off because you wouldn't leave the onions off their burger probably weren't going to buy it anyways!

Re:No flash support

[RESPAWN]

Flash may be dead, but Adobe certainly is not. Their Creative Suite is still king, and PDF is probably the most common real world document format.

Re:No flash support

[shutdown -p now]

I'm no Google fan by a long margin, and they have their shady sides. That said, specifically with respect to Flash, Google interests clearly lie strictly in open standards, which neatly lines up with what I want.

Re:No flash support

[quadelirus]

I just came across a really good discussion by John Gruber about this: http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/apple_adobe_flash

Re:No flash support

[mattack2]

"The" primary function? Seems to me like "a" primary function would be more accurate.

Re:No flash support

[TheGeneration]

Colonel Mustard killed the Flash with the iPad in the Library.

Re:No flash support

[ImpShial]

So Adobe's only product is Flash?

Photoshop
Acrobat
Illustrator
After Effects
Premiere

Re:No flash support

[I Am Defragged]

You can use ClickToFlash on Safari in 10.6 to tell the Youtube site to serve the H.264 iPhone version to your browser instead of the flash version too - much nicer.

Not just the iPhone version, but all the way up to 720p if it's available (I believe it's the video the flash player serves you when you append &fmt=22 to the URL, if that still works).

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck Flash. Fuch Flash. Fuch Flask. Fush Flask. Fush Flack. Fash Flack. Fash Fluck. Flash Fluck. Flash Fuck.

Re:No flash support

[diodia_teres]

exactly. How is this an internet device?

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple killed the floppy.

I use floppies regularly. Try again.

Re:No flash support

[Idaho]

Which means no hulu.com, espn360.com or fancast.com. Somehow Mr. Jobs is touting this as a feature.

Anything that improves the chances of Flash disappearing from the web *IS* a feature.

Apple obviously thinks about this the same way, although likely for different reasons than I do.

They care because they don't control Flash, for technical as well as political reasons; technical: they cannot make it 64 bit, they cannot fix crashes caused by Flash as they can with pretty much everything else in OS X, etc. Political: they don't like someone else to have control and receive licensing fees over something that central to the user experience).

I care because Flash is the only "real" remaining proprietary extension that is pretty much required to experience the "web" currently, if at least you care about A/V on the internet (Youtube etc.). Pretty much everything else can be used without paying royalties to anyone just to use the technology.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardware accellerated H.264 on Apple products is available only through QuickTime APIs which Adobe either refuses to, or cannot use...I'm not sure I'd call this a defect.. A serious shortcoming on the Mac platform certainly.

Re:No flash support

[Swampash]

Flash is the number-one cause of application crashes on OS X, and it's outside Apple's control. No way Flash is going to be supported by Iphone or Ipad.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

I want *pdf's* to go away. What's the point of a format built for 8-1/2 x 11 anyway? 'Specially when ink costs more than a printer.

Re:No flash support

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

But there is no proof that is the case. You can't just assign an opinion to millions of people. How does anyone know what millions of people want without doing a statistically significant poll? Furthermore, millions does not necessarily imply a majority. Millions of people may live in the United states, but that doesn't mean that that most people live in the united states.

For the most part you're taking your opinion, or those of your acquaintances, and assigning them to a huge number of people. I object on the basis of logic, rather than any opinion I actually have about flash.

Re:No flash support

[ncc74656]

Go to YouTube and enroll in the HTML 5 beta. Except that there's no full-screen there, it rocks.

It also apparently doesn't support Firefox, even though HTML 5 is supported by Firefox 3.5.x. Bummer.

Re:No flash support

[zeroRenegade]

Flash H.264 hardware acceleration is only implemented with the Windows version of the plugin. It is not a feature for the Linux or OS X versions. I'd say it will be a very short time before it is implemented in the Linux and OS X versions, but it will be even longer before the iPod Touch, iPhone, and the pathetic iPad, support flash. I am not sure if this is a windows/adobe agreement, or if it is just another sign that flash is on its death bed.

Re:No flash support

[tgd]

HTML5 is nice, but if you think it can do 1% of the things Silverlight can do, you're not an engineer or have never actually looked at Silverlight.

Re:No flash support

[DangerFace]

Dude, H.264 is proprietary, and that's what Apple want as part of the HTML5 specs. Also, it's what the Youtube et al HTML5 betas are running.

Re:No flash support

[jmorris42]

> and the limited iphone style OS (why not full mac OS).

Because at this point Apple would like nothing better than to find a way to discontinue OS X. The huge revenue stream they unleashed with the App Store has distorted everything at Apple. OS X on the desktop doesn't give Apple a cut of every app sold; so all new products are going to be in the iPhone development model. Hence this new product, which COULD have run a more open operating system and supported a lot of traditional OS X applications (add ARM to the fat binaries and ship) is instead an iPod/iPhone with a bigger display.

Since they will sell a ton of these shiny iTurds expect them to take it as a green light for the next step and move the closed Nintendo/Cellphone OS model to the all in one desktops next. If that works the bottom end of the laptops will go next.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to wish for something unrealistic and beyond their power, at least shoot for world peace.

I'd rather have Apple kill Humanity. Humans are a piece of shit. Peace is the future.

Re:No flash support

[mdm-adph]

I would LOVE if it was actually a secret jab at Flash, trust me. ;)

Re:No flash support

[mdm-adph]

The problem is Joe User is going to buy this thing, see the big screen size, and expect to browse the web just like they do on their laptop.

And they're going to be disappointed...

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the info... Hulu (flash) runs terrible on my old system while Netflix (silverlight) is smooth. That would explain it; hope it gets fixed soon.

Re:No flash support

[mdwh2]

Agreed. It's absurd how Apple dropping the floppy from the Imac is upheld as some key moment, especially when most computers aren't Macs (and this was even more so back in the Imac days).

There were companies that dropped floppies from platform before than (e.g., the Commodore Amiga CDTV, years earlier in 1991), and there were companies that dropped it later. Most companies doing it later was quite sensible, given that floppies were still needed - hell, the Imac didn't offer any alternatives (such as a CD writer). It was particularly laughable that the response to this criticism was "Well you can buy a USB floppy" - er yeah, right, as if that doesn't defeat the whole point of killing the floppy. So Apple kills the internal floppy, just so that we can start with the external one...

Re:No flash support

[Sandbags]

Acrobat is dying. Yes, PDF is used widely, but BUYING acrobat is at best optional now as all Macs, and MS Office, and many other products make PDF for free. The advanced features of PDF creation are rarely used. Acrobat will likely stop being a product in the near future.

Photoshop, yea, still big. no longer quite as impressive since Gimp. Loosing market share. Time the product dropped to under $199.

After Effects and Premiere, i know a few people who have it, most of them moved to FilmMaker Pro. The more popular Apple and Linux gets, the smaller Adobe's business will get.

When i say Adobe is dead, I mean it's a company that's got no future. They were the king, and they got too comfortable on the throne and failed to continue true innovation. Their current security issues, and bloated under performing code base is their death knell.

Re:No flash support

[elrous0]

i don't get why flash should be supported...

Because people will actually have to use it in the real world?

Re:No flash support

[k8to]

Where by completely secure you mean that they can do anything inside the sandbox that you do not explicitly disallow, including the potential of storing data for later execution, communicating with the outside world, modifying other things running in said sandbox later, etc.

There's ways to mitigate many of these things, but they're not simple. The point is sandboxing itself is not the fix-everything tool, it's one of several ways to mitigate security issues. Another one is to reduce the attack surface area, and that has a much higher chance of real improvement.

Re:No flash support

[bluec]

You've just made that up, haven't you? Care to provide a citation?

Re:No flash support

[elrous0]

Either that or they've build a turd with no reason to exist (too big and expensive to be an iPhone/iTouch, too weak to be an actual netbook).

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

The main use for Flash on the web is video. There are much better ways to play video than through Flash.

I agree.

As for Apps, I have a couple of points for you:

• Flash uses ActionScript, which is based on ECMAScript, the same as JavaScript, and has a lot of similarities.
• If you want to create a "desktop" like app and you're too stupid to learn JavaScript + CSS, write an app using Cocoa and submit it to the app store.

The current version of ActionScript is IMHO more advanced and more suited to rich clients than JS (static typing for example).
Maybe some people are not too stupid to learn JavaScript & CSS (nice condescension there) but have come to the conclusion it is not the right tool for the job. I developed a fairly large mash-up rich-client application in JS and was not satisfied with tools and language in this regard. ActionScript or C# would have been a better choice.

Oh and I didn't know I could develop Cocoa for web browsers.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

One step at a time. Kill Flash today, save the world tomorrow.

Re:No flash support

[elrous0]

No, we watch FILMS! "Movies" are for the unwashed masses.

Fin

Re:No flash support

[MichaelSmith]

My eeepc 701 plays my "flash movie collection" just fine.

Re:No flash support

[MichaelSmith]

I rather have Apple kill Flash. Flash is a piece of shit. HTML5 is the future.

For what? Writing games? What happened to write once run anywhere? Or do we want job creation for application developers?

Re:No flash support

[Kelbear]

Flash is poorly optimized, but even using the original EEEPC with the weakest hardware of all the netbooks out there, running the default Xandros distro, I haven't had any issues with websites using Flash.

Re:No flash support

[elrous0]

Welcome to /. sir. You'll quickly learn that anything that's not open source or that is associated with Microsoft in any way is the demon spawn of Satan, here to rape your daughter and piss in your drink. By contrast, anything that is open source, or associated with Linux of Apple, is manna from heaven--sent here by Jesus to save us all and to preclude a golden age where horny Natalie Portmans rain from the sky wanting to sleep with us all and to give us free grits.

Re:No flash support

[gaspar ilom]

To be fair, Macromedia originally created Flash, not Adobe. Macromedia made a better, more versatile plugin than any of the [also proprietary] competition. Unfortunately, Adobe has now spread their funk to Macromedia. The FTC should never have allowed Adobe to buy their only competitor.

Re:No flash support

[Mongoose Disciple]

Seriously, why do we still want Flash?

It's not about wanting Flash, it's about where a lot of content that people are interested is and will be for a while.

Re:No flash support

[indi0144]

What?! I would like to play Flash games here, I would like to show some presentation to a client (powerpoint? for an advertising presentation? yeah right) How do I demo my clients an AIR app they need? This was supposed to be the ultimate tool for the designer or creative guy.

Flash is not only video, I can't believe so much hatred against Flash because it's a LAME video platform, IT DOES HAVE OTHER _VALID AND USEFUL_ USES.

I was waiting for this announcement, Now I know I will go with a Tablet and Linux.

You're Stabbing the back of the creative sector that once helped you so much, stupid Apple and stupid Adobe.

Re:No flash support

[Squeakstar]

yep!

Re:No flash support

[The End Of Days]

There are actually a few porn sites that do HTML 5 video right now, essentially for iPhone support. Works fairly well.

Re:No flash support

[indi0144]

Sadly we all know what happens when some new technologies is pushed so hard with the intent of killing another.

Flash is dead slow for video but HTML5 RIA "capabilities" are a emo slow.

Who wants to spend more than double the time developing something thats going to run at half speed in the ~10% of browsers?? no really, get serious.

Re:No flash support

[jwdav]

http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/apple_adobe_flash

Re:No flash support

[TRRosen]

Would a few million witnesses do?

Re:No flash support

[hondo77]

Movies are for the masses. Films are watched by poseurs. We watch cinéma.

Re:No flash support

[steelfood]

The economy is good; there is no problem. See, everybody has a job, except for the ones who don't. And inflation is low, besides where the prices are increasing. And the banks, they are lending money again, unless you don't qualify.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

What? You hope the release of a proprietary device will kill off a proprietary software - and that's a good thing?

Re:No flash support

[TRRosen]

That's a whole other product line. Hmmmm MacPad?!

Re:No flash support

[horigath]

Here

Because Flash is so widely used and commonly loaded, it crashes more than anything else on the mac, according to Apple's crash-reporting data. It's one of the stated reasons why apple made Safari load plugins seperately from the main application in 10.6 (the other being 64-bit compatability), because they crash so much. And the most used, most-crashy one is Flash.

Re:No flash support

[bluec]

So basically, apple propaganda. I've been supporting 100's of Macs for over 2 years and I have never ONCE seen a crash caused by Flash. The most common crashes I see are Mail.app and iCal.app - both crash extremely frequently.

Re:No flash support

[TRRosen]

Yeah just because Apple owns 51% of the mobile browsing market already isn't a good enough reason.

Re:No flash support

[Volguus Zildrohar]

We are not talking about your sex life, sir.

Re:No flash support

[TRRosen]

Much in the same way the iphone and iPod are 51% of the mobile browsing market.

add 20 million new devices per quarter.

Re:No flash support

[PaganRitual]

Well, nerds already hate flash, so if something that is going to be popular with the un-tech-savvy (or wanna-be tech savvy) crowd is going to drop flash, then there's hope yet. Oh god I'm so close to hoping for success for Apple. I think I hear the stamping of distant hooves.

Re:No flash support

[bigstrat2003]

Presumably because different people are voicing the opinions? There are plenty of comments in this story saying that Flash is evil, spawn of the devil, violater of web pages, scourge of the internet and mortal enemy of standards-based web.

Myself, I don't give a rat's ass about any of that (and will never understand why anyone would), so yes, I would consider non-support of Flash to be a negative thing.

Of course, this device is a solution in search of a problem, with or without Flash. It's too big to really be a good portable device, at which point you may as well use a real computer (which is far more useful and powerful), or a netbook (which is more useful, powerful, and cheaper). This device will have only two good uses: replacing e-book readers, and letting hardcore Trek geeks have one of those data pads (once someone figures out how to give it an LCARS interface).

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called SproutCore.

Re:No flash support

[KlaymenDK]

Same situation on Android's "YouTube" application, btw.

Re:No flash support

[Draek]

Flash is proprietary I'd like to see it fade into oblivion.

Yeah, pity that you wishing it won't make it so. And until it does fade into oblivion, lack of flash *is* a strong limitation for the device.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Were you paying attention at the time? Coz I sure was, and the universal cry might be translated to Slashdot colloquial terms as "iBook with no floppy disk? Lame!" SaintJobs argued at the time that with multi-gigabyte HDs no one would need to back up to floppies anymore, and with wireless networking in your laptop nobody would want to, but *everybody else*, IBM, Dell, Compaq, you name it, either kept the floppy or at the very least provided an external device that could be plugged either instead of the CD or thru PCMCIA III (USB 1.0 wasn't all that popular back then). Which was actually necesary, since they didn't have CD burners or wireless networking in their default laptop configurations. In comparison to those remote times, cheap flash and PC BIOS supporting boot off'em are very, very recent improvements.
The continual improvement in capacity in HDs was what really killed floppies, but there's no question that SJ's Apple was there to write the epitaph and that they were the first to break the news to the rest of the industry!

Re:No flash support

[TrancePhreak]

That may be the case, but Adobe showed Flash 10 running full speed on other devices. Apple most likely wants to lock out Flash because it steals away from their revenue. Apple would no longer get a 30% + $100/yr take on selling them in the Apple App store.

Re:No flash support

[TrancePhreak]

Flash has been shown running full speed on other devices. iPhone 3G/2G already have low battery life when playing games. If Apple doesn't open up, people are likely to notice that Apple products are missing functionality.

Re:No flash support

[sonamchauhan]

Yes, but you've only brought one.

Re:No flash support

[rtb61]

Doesn't really matter the iPad is an iKaboom, it just wont work. All the sales, marketing and forum hype (could apple trolls be considered maggots) are not gonna get that platform moving. Likely the iPad will just end up damaging the 'i'Apple branding, remind everyone of overbearing iDRM and iClosed, rather than being an open and flexible device. I can't help but feel the iPad will be Jobs, iSwan song.

Sticking an i in something doesn't make it more saleable, the tablet has always had the one big problem, drop factor, it is to large to be effectively hand held, a keyboard is the quickest input device and the tablet has always been this only for pose platform.

Being a bit older I can remember doing stuff like stock takes with a clip board, how often you would need to put it down (where it falls or is knocked), how often you would drop it, it was big enough to do the job but to big to be really comfortable, if you can't carry it in a pocket it is to big to carry around.

The proper current market segment is a smart book in conjunction with a smart phone, with the two devices tightly linked together via wireless, so you can readily access one from the other and exchange and manipulate data stored on either. Phone for walk around and netbook for casual sit down (even then it needs to be a pretty sturdy design). In fact you can envisage buying them together as a single package, even with a phone contract.

That is all still based on that smart book being a second computer, which together with the phone, connects to your main computer, a desktop (be it a large form factor notebook or an actual desktop).

Re:No flash support

[falconwolf]

I don't know how many tymes I've run into this on my MBP. I frequently land on pages saying I need the latest Flash player yet when I go to Adobe's test page it says I have the latest player. Right now that's 10.0.42.34 for Linux, OS X, Solaris, and Windows. The only thing I can think of is that these pages test for Windows as well.

Falcon

Re:No flash support

[Tim C]

Yes, there sure is. I pay (lots) for the display device, and would quite like to use it in whatever way I choose.

Re:No flash support

[nobodyman]

. If the phone meets a video with no H.264 version it just says "cannot display movie at this time" or something like that.

Actually, it seems like the act of requesting the h.264 version for the conversion process. When I receive the "cannot display movie" message, it'll usually play just fine if I request it a second time. Perhaps by second attempt youtube has converted the video.

Re:No flash support

[AmiMoJo]

Actually I think it is supposed to replace notebooks, and PCs in general. Apple want to build a computer which they can control completely, just like the iPhone.

For historic reasons they can't lock down their laptops or desktops. All their 'post PC' products like the iPod and iPhone are though, and they make a lot of money by doing that. They get to decide what runs on their hardware, what peripherals can interface with it and how you are allowed to use it. The point is to force the owner to buy stuff that makes them money (licences on 3rd party hardware, no alternative app stores or emulators, no flash because it could be used to make apps without paying and getting approval from Apple etc.) They have even managed to get mobile phone operators to kiss their ass just for a chance to carry the iPhone. Control and lock-in is their business model.

The iPad is what they are hoping computers will become.

Re:No flash support

[falconwolf]

Adobe showed Flash 10 running full speed on other devices. Apple most likely wants to lock out Flash because it steals away from their revenue. Apple would no longer get a 30% + $100/yr take on selling them in the Apple App store.

What revenue and sell? Flash is a free download. Right now I have Abode's latest version of Flash Player installed on my MacBook Pro, 10,0,42,34. Apple's own downloads, Quicktime for instance, is free too. Apple even has links to other free downloads. Though Apple sells MS Word and Office as well as it's own office suite, Apple also as a link to NeoOffice, which I use, the native Mac port of Open Office. And though I have XCode installed, it comes free with Macs, I use Eclipse. Though not Eclipse itself Apple has the link for EasyEclipse which is based on Eclipse.

Falcon

Re:No flash support

[DrXym]

No, they won't see the inside of the box because Apple doesn't want them there. They provide users a huge amount of functionality, games, apps etc. without paying Apple for the privilege.

Re:No flash support

[SimonTheSoundMan]

Can you ask Apple to get a decent MPEG2 decoder for OS X too. Their codec which is used in all their processional applications from Final Cut to Quicktime Pro 7 all use a PowerPC only codec, and will only run on one core. Makes your Mac Pro struggle worse than h.264 encoded in flash player.

Re:No flash support

[twisty7867]

I just don't get all the pro-HTML5 hype. HTML5 is going to be no different than any previous version of HTML... eventually bastardized by each browser vendor in the name of "innovation". Flash is successful today because of it's proprietary nature. Every browser renders Flash using a single vendor's engine (FOSS alternatives execpted, they're certainly an edge case). I realize that proprietary software is a practical or philosophical problem for some folks, but the reality of the matter is that it's a necessity for consistent content rendering. Flash isn't present on the iPhone because you wouldn't need the App Store to deliver half the janky 99-cent games that people are buying (and sending 29 cents per to Apple). Apple won't ever allow Flash (or Silverlight or proper HTML5) on these devices unless customers just don't buy them otherwise.

Re:No flash support

[Brian Gordon]

Flash is proprietary

Maybe if Apple opened up their platform then a free Flash implementation could gain some momentum.. An "app store" for an $829 computer is ridiculous. You should be able to run any downloaded code like on OS X.

Also, "i" is quickly passing "e-" as corniest tech prefix. I suggest "Apple Books".

Re:No flash support

[spearway]

This is a lie from Adobe. Translation it does not work the same way on Linux and MacOS than on Windows and we cannot be bothered to write the code for it. If you don't make the effort why should Apple do it for you?

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

There are easy solutions to our societal problems, see Murray Rothbard's What Has Government Done to Our Money? and the Tannehill's The Market for Liberty.

The hard part is getting over the fear of doing something new. Imagine explaining to a Middle-Age indentured serf that he'd be better off under democratic rule: he would sooner kill you than risk thinking a new thought not approved by his society (king, church, other slaves).

Re:No flash support

[kaizokuace]

do you mean the iBookstore?

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

They used the term "magical" to describe the iPad several times. Maybe, just maybe, it can bring us that world peace...

Re:No flash support

[nine-times]

Yes, for the time being this is a different class of device, and people shouldn't expect it to be a general-purpose PC. The aim doesn't seem to be aimed at replacing your desktop or laptop, but functioning more as a Kindle/Internet appliance thingamabob.

On the other hand, there's actually a fair amount of potential to this thing. In addition to the keyboard dock (and maybe the option to use a bluetooth keyboard?), some sites are reporting that the SDK indicates you have the ability to support an external display through the dock. What I would *love* to see is to Apple make use of a patent they hold for a docking station for the iPad, allowing you to plug this thing in and end up with a full desktop configuration.

Theoretically, that would seem like an extremely elegant solution, if you could have the iPad/iPhone UI on the pad itself, but have it present a full desktop UI when you dock it and have a large screen, keyboard, and mouse to work with. Or in a similar way, perhaps they could even have an small portable keyboard accessory that would allow the iPad to be turned into a netbook.

Of course, there are problems with this idea, and I don't know if Apple is thinking along these lines at all.

Re:No flash support

[falconwolf]

To be fair, Macromedia originally created Flash, not Adobe. Macromedia made a better, more versatile plugin than any of the [also proprietary] competition. Unfortunately, Adobe has now spread their funk to Macromedia. The FTC should never have allowed Adobe to buy their only competitor.

Though I wish Macromedia stayed a separate company, it wasn't Adobe's only competitor. Virtually every market they compeated in there are and were other competitors. Now the one market Adobe has little mass competition with is Photoshop and Macromedia didn't compeat with it.

Falcon

Re:No flash support

[TRRosen]

hey Andy Ihnatko says so its all I need.

Re:No flash support

[mgblst]

Really? So you have never heard of Microsoft and Windows.

Re:No flash support

[dissy]

Wow. Like the iPhone and OSX aren't proprietary. Perhaps you'd like to see those fade into Oblivion too?

Since when is HTML5 proprietary?

I've never once had an issue on the web where HTML5 prevented me from seeing/using/viewing any webpage, unlike flash.

Re:No flash support

[Rhinobird]

We're the United States government. We don't do that sort of thing!

Re:No flash support

[dissy]

Maybe if Apple opened up their platform then a free Flash implementation could gain some momentum.

I am very interested in this free flash implementation you speak of.
Where is it? URL? Even a project name would be helpful.

Because despite apples wishes, I run my apple platform fully open (jailbreaking ftw) and even with a fully open platform I have access to, there still does not seem to exist any free flash implementation that supports a fraction of the flash features the binary version does.

About the closest thing to a point I see you having, is that if apple officially opened its platform instead of forcing the end user to do it, then Adobe might cross over their already existing closed player.

However you mention a free one in existence somewhere, and would like more information about it, as myself and many others can't seem to find any such beast.

Re:No flash support

[dougisfunny]

Hopefully they'll use an open standard with HTML 5 video rather than h.264 then.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. The grandparent was following the money. You're not. You lose.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

> Macs ipad
> Max ipad
> Maxi pad

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Certainly no worse than javascript

Re:No flash support

[Nerdfest]

Sticking an i in something doesn't make it more saleable

Dude, hang around an Apple store for a while ...

Re:No flash support

[falconwolf]

No, they won't see the inside of the box because Apple doesn't want them there. They provide users a huge amount of functionality, games, apps etc. without paying Apple for the privilege.

That sounds just like my MacBook Pro, almost all of the software I installed on it is FOSS, Free and Open Source. Just like HP, MS, and others Apple got it's money when I bought my Mac. Now I don't have a lot of games installed, OS X installs Chess, but a therapist I was seeing suggested I get some. She suggested they could improve my memory, speed, and other things. Otherwise for an office suite I use the native Mac port of OO.org NeoOffice and for an IDE I use Eclipse. What I am missing is a photo editor like Photoshop, so I plan on installing K/Ubuntu to dualboot and try out Krita before I have to buy Photoshop.

Falcon

Re:No flash support

[DragonWriter]

The iPhone supports HTML 5 (at least video tag and Google is using it for voice),

Actually, Google is using HTML5 features for the UI for the Google Voice web app for iPhone, but is not using HTML5 for voice. In this case, capitalization really matters.

Re:No flash support

[westlake]

Flash is proprietary I'd like to see it fade into oblivion.

It isn't going to happen any time soon.

Flash has supported H.264 since Flash Player 9 in 2007.

Flash Player 10.1 supports H.264 video hardware decoding on desktop and mobile devices and hardware (GPU) graphics rendering on mobile devices
  Flash Player 10.1 hardware acceleration for video and graphics, Flash Player 10.1 Beta 2 - Downloads

Freescale is bringing Adobe Flash Player 10.1 to its ARM based i.MX platforms, enabling the creation of consumer products running either the Linux or Android operating systems.
Smartbooks, smartphones, netbooks and other Internet-centric consumer products based on the i.MX51 family of processors will be able to access full H.264 video playback when accessing rich content built with the Flash Platform, including HD and SD video from sites such as YouTube. Collaboration For Flash Player 10.1 on Freescale i.MX

Re:No flash support

[quenda]

We watch cinema. Films are for the aspirational middle classes.

Re:No flash support

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

That's easily fixable: /etc/adobe/mms.cfg:
OverrideGPUValidation=true

The problem is with mobos that have intel video. Flash doesn't detect your hardware acceleration, and doesn't use it. Create that file with those values, and it'll work nicely.

I'm posting this from an Atom 330 with an Intel GMA on Ubuntu 9.10. Flash Video at full screen (1280x760) works perfectly.

Re:No flash support

[hawaiian717]

It also apparently doesn't support Firefox, even though HTML 5 is supported by Firefox 3.5.x. Bummer.

From what I read elsewhere, this is because Firefox doesn't support H.264 video with HTML5, only Theora.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Which means no hulu.com, espn360.com or fancast.com. Somehow Mr. Jobs is touting this as a feature.

If code is speech, isn't this the same as censorship?

Re:No flash support

[timeOday]

They were demoing how you can browse the web and never have to worry about obtrusive Flash ads.

Seek help, your reality is 60% distorted and it's spreading fast.

It's not a feature, it's a bug.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

O Really? Just how exactly do you plan on implementing DRM protection that streaming video, let alone convincing the bagillions of marketing and distribution agencies of it. Or what about adding on related video and inline animated ads, embedded analytics, and for shits and giggles lets throw in dynamic video stream adjustment (adaptive streaming). You must be completely off your rocker or know next to nothing about SilverLight or Flash. Let's not even touch the ability to actually produce this rich applications in rich development environments which is a monumental factor in developing great applications with any of the aforementioned technologies. Oh Oh I know, you must be J.S. Ghandi, the god of HTML 5 who can write mint.com inside a HTML5 canvas tag blindfolded.

I wish there was a good alternative, but as it stands SilverLight & Flash will continue to dominate this field. Our best bet I believe is to hope that MS continues to do a great job with SilverLight as it is vastly superior in architecture to the Flash Virtual Machine, and the speed of MS development on it is outstanding.

Re:No flash support

[khellendros1984]

It's a closed-source application used ubiquitously on the internet (to the point that many webpages require it to function). The fact that it's not open would be less of a problem if Adobe fixed security holes, released the plugin for new platforms, and generally kept up with new segments of the market (ARM devices, smartphones, etc).

Not to mention that it's overused on many sites. Using flash to provide the user interface for your site is just heinous.

Re:No flash support

[rockout]

I'm suddenly reminded of something about wireless nomads, and the word "lame", but I can't quite put my finger on it.....

Re:No flash support

[khellendros1984]

If you want performance, I really wouldn't go for a netbook. They're a better choice for portability and long battery life. Flash performs better on Windows, but even in Linux, I don't have much trouble with youtube videos (non-HD versions of the video). I've got a GMA 950 video chip in mine...the Nvidia one probably has better performance.

Re:No flash support

[RCL]

Has Flash fixed any problems? Flash plugin is currenlty the only reason left why my computer gets unresponsive. Even OpenOffice seems to be less resource-hungry than browser with several heavy Flash-based sites open.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Works fairly well... I hear

FTFY :)

Re:No flash support

[Macrat]

I rather have Apple kill Flash. Flash is a piece of shit. HTML5 is the future.

Apple doesn't need to do anything. Flash dies on it's own.

Re:No flash support

[indiechild]

You're nothing but an ignorant troll. Apple through WebKit is basically driving the adoption of HTML5, it's being used everywhere in their products.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

er flash is not dead, check out the figures.

it seems to go from strength to strength in fact. in the push into the mobile arena it is getting somewhere and has big plans.

it has near total ubiquity on computers connected to the web, close to 100%. perhaps not amongst a small number of apple and linux bell-ends, but you can't please everyone.

in terms of educational software (my field) there is no alternative, and won't be for many years.

if you think html 5 combined with some hacked together svg is going to make any difference then you don't know what you're talking about. dream on fools.

this latest piece of icrap is irrelevant and even more so given its failure to support the defacto standard for web animation.

whats really funny is how must of the conversation about it here on slashdot seems to be focused on flash - the same bleating voices. wasting their hot air on another lost cause.

apples control freakery is what this is about - apple customers are gullible and stupid but even they won't put up with no flash support.

Re:No flash support

[rsborg]

HTML5 is nice, but if you think it can do 1% of the things Silverlight can do, you're not an engineer or have never actually looked at Silverlight.

Maybe those things that Silverlight can do shouldn't be on the web (especially when it's being forced down the throat of all IE/Windows users).

Re:No flash support

[Cyberllama]

Is that really so impossible a problem to engineer around? Just make it so you have to tap flash elements of a webpage to run them. Then their not just draining my battery life with regular usage -- but if there's some specific reason that i want to be using flash, I can. Win/win, right?

Re:No flash support

[BenLeeImp]

While I am not the person you replied to, I believe I can help you interpret his post. Basically, he seemed to be saying that most of the iPhone apps/games/etc could be just as easily implemented in flash and stuck on a webpage somewhere. If the iPhone could run flash, then popcap (for example) would simply host its own games, keep all of its tasty revenue and Apple wouldn't get its 30%.

Re:No flash support

[Cyberllama]

I think the older ones are not the issue, it's the new ones that won't usually stream h.264. They do the basic low-quality flash stream first, then encode HD and then iPhone versions. I think iPhone is usually last, so sometimes it takes up to a day after a video is posted before you can watch it on your iPhone.

Re:No flash support

[BrokenHalo]

Maxi pad

I want one with wings... :-P

Re:No flash support

[TrancePhreak]

This is exactly what I was saying.

Re:No flash support

[cgenman]

I believe he means "future" by "not the present."

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

That will be an available feature in the upgraded iPad, which will be called the iPon.

Re:No flash support

[Brian Gordon]

Gnash seems to work for flash video and many flash games.

Re:No flash support

[quadelirus]

That's true. Flash does have other uses. But a lot of the loud complaints center around video. I am personally not showing advertising presentations to people and I think most people aren't (not to mention the fact that if there is a market for it, there will be an app for that). Apple doesn't want this device to be all things to all people. It seems like Apple sees this as a media device for consumers, not a presentation tool for advertisers. It makes sense to leave out flash because flash is buggy and isn't updatable by Apple (see Gruber's post for why this is such an important point).

Re:No flash support

[quadelirus]

That is true, you can't do DRM with it. Your sarcasm is a bit overblown, however.

Re:No flash support

[quadelirus]

Flash isn't on the iPhone because it would be a piece of software bundled with the OS that isn't updatable by Apple. So if Apple decides to go from 32 to 64 bit chips, what would they do? Wait for Adobe to get their act together (there still isn't a 64 bit version of flash for snow leopard which is why Apple had to completely change Safari's plugin architecture). And flash is buggy (the number one cause of application crashes on OS X is Flash--see Gruber's post). Why would any company want to be so dependent on another company without any monetary compensation?

Re:No flash support

[jk379]

And silverlight is so cross platform.... Once is a patent free open standard let us know. Until then silverlight can have a long slow death.

Re:No flash support

[White Flame]

I fully agree with your sentiment, but it was the exact same situation with the iPhone, and it sold like gangbusters. Do not underestimate the purchasing power of Apple customers. :-P

Re:No flash support

[westlake]

Yes, it's a defect in the Flash player, and it's one of the reasons why using Flash video players might not be a great idea if you have a viable alternative.

Flash Player 10.1 hardware acceleration for video and graphics

Re:No flash support

[nine-times]

That's fine, but Flash really still shouldn't be necessary for watching movies anymore than it is for looking at a JPEG or listening to an MP3. In the mean time, it's also a bad movie player.

Re:No flash support

[snowgirl]

Yes! If by "future" you mean "marginal enhancements to a decade old spec, solving problems that have already been fixed, and still isn't done yet, let alone supported" then yes, future indeed. I'm thoroughly prepared to have my mind blown by it, on the five example pages w3c will eventually put out. Phenomenal.

Wait... you're complaining about Apple making a MARGINAL enhancement to a well-established format, that people have already fixed?

The areas where Apple has performed the best is taking tried-and-true technology, simplifying it, and making it polished.

While flash has solved a lot of issues on the web, it is also a first-gen solution. In many ways, it's inelegant, it's a pain, and it's annoying. Going back to the basics, and solving the problems again with a mind for what the real problem is, and what ideas work and don't, can provide you with a more robust solution than the hacks all thrown together.

Look at what Apple does to the "power apps" that come out for their products. They look at it, redesign it, refine it, and push it out to the customer as a new feature of the OS. Perhaps the best/worst thing one can do is make an app that people begin to view as "essential" or "required to be seriously considered". If your install base approaches 50% of the market, Apple takes notice, sucks your ideas in, and plops out a version of their own... and you're left in the dust as an obsolete "inferior" option...

Re:No flash support

[fractoid]

Well, that and ubiquitous network and internet access.

Re:No flash support

[fractoid]

So let me get this straight: No one is complaining about this, except for the people who are?

Not only that, but the only sales lost because of the lack of flash are the ones that didn't buy the product!

Re:No flash support

[falconwolf]

While I am not the person you replied to, I believe I can help you interpret his post. Basically, he seemed to be saying that most of the iPhone apps/games/etc could be just as easily implemented in flash and stuck on a webpage somewhere. If the iPhone could run flash, then popcap (for example) would simply host its own games, keep all of its tasty revenue and Apple wouldn't get its 30%.

If I can develop and test my own software on an iPhone you should be able to install said software on an iPhone too. On the other hand I don't see how software can be installed, other than by the app store, in Apple's support section.

While I'm disappointed it appears most people can only install software on their iPhone by using Apple's app store, it doesn't affect me much now. I love my Mac but I do not have nor have any desire to buy either an iPhone or an iPod. For a cellphone all I want is one I can make calls on. And my Walkman CD player works fine as well. The only reason I see for getting something else is for longer battery life.

Re:No flash support

[falconwolf]

even with that, it's still got very limited disk space (why no rotational drive option?), and the limited iphone style OS (why not full mac OS).

I'd rather have something that can hold at least a 250GB hdd and full MacOS/Windows.

Actually, with those, and give it at least a 14" screen, and they would switch me away from Toshiba.

Apple already makes such a device! It's called a "Macbook Pro".

Except a MacBook Pro also requires a Wacom tablet. Now if Apple made a 17" MBP with a built-in tablet like Wacom's Cintiq I'd try to find a way to buy it. Even more if it were 21" instead.

Falcon

Re:No flash support

[falconwolf]

Of course, this device is a solution in search of a problem, with or without Flash. It's too big to really be a good portable device,

I don't think so, it's no bigger than any of the clip boards and paper notebooks I've carried as well as seen others carry whether working, in school, or relaxing. Now the big users I can see who'd be interested are artist but I can see it being said by a lot of them is that the iPad is too small. Both the screen and storage. The biggest storage is a 64GB flash drive? I replaced the 160GB drive in my MBP with a 320GB drive, and it's too small for me.

Falcon

Re:No flash support

[falconwolf]

It's in your pocket anyways because you need a phone.

This iPad doesn't have that advantage.

A device that doesn't address the shortcomings of the iphone is just... redundant.

Gee, I didn't know you can draw or write on an iPhone. That is what I want an Apple tablet for. Unfortunately the iPad is too small. And has the iPhone OS, not a full blown OS. I don't know for sure but I bet you're also locked into using Apple's app store to download and install software.

Falcon

Re:No flash support

[westyvw]

You mean use WPF? No thanks, HTML5 + Canvas can do an awful lot, check out the NES emulator, or the 3d Rendering, or GPS and mapping, etc. And remember, for millions of us, Silverlight can do nothing as we are unsupported.

Re:No flash support

[umberto_soprano]

When i say Adobe is dead, I mean it's a company that's got no future. They were the king, and they got too comfortable on the throne and failed to continue true innovation. Their current security issues, and bloated under performing code base is their death knell.

Agree. Not to mention that in 2010 their Reader needs 30 seconds for a TEXT search which was performed in less than 1 second 20 years ago.

Re:No flash support

[beelsebob]

If by "solving problems that have already been fixed" you mean you have another way of drawing arbitrary 2D/3D on the fly at reasonable speed, embedding videos in a web page in such a way that you can provide your own interface and controls, providing local storage so that web pages continue to work offline and all that other jazz, I'd love to see it.

In the mean time HTML5 is very well supported by both Chrome and Safari, and Opera and Firefox's support is getting pretty good too.

Good job though – you were right one 1 count out of 3.

Re:No flash support

[rtb61]

Tablets as a market segment just don't make sense. Of course I forget the final piece of the near future digital suite, to be accurate, the smart phone connects to the smart book and the smart book connects to the smart theatre. So you can use the smart phone as a fully functioning remote for your smart theatre and of course your smart book as the keyboard and second screen (detached picture in picture) for the smart theatre. The smart theatre is connected to the net, has the digital tuners, dvd players, is a full featured server as well as a big screen TV. So a three piece package, with additional smart books and smart phones as required. So a tablet doesn't really fit, especially when you will be able to get cheaper smart books with rotating screen providing tablet functionality at a marginal extra price. The proper direction for apple would have been the complete digital suite but it doesn't really work with iDRM up the wazoo (people would be unlikely to completely surrender digital control of their ihome).

Re:No flash support

[pydev]

Stop imagining things. Flash works and is widely used even on the desktop. It's easy to sandbox Flash because it usually doesn't do anything other than display stuff and make HTTP connections.

These objections are even more silly on the iPad/iPod where applications are so isolated from each other anyway and where there is so little user data other than commercial audio and video.

Other personal data should be encrypted anyway, in which case sandboxing becomes even more effective. Of course, Apple doesn't. When Apple plays so fast and loose with security anyway, Flash is really the last of your worries.

Apple needs to add full sandboxing and data encryption to all their systems. After that, discussions about theoretical risks from Flash become academic. And unless you are intrinsically opposed to executable content (do you browse with JavaScript off?), Flash is no worse than JavaScript, Java, etc.

I don't like Flash as a technology, but to object on it the grounds you do is silly and stupid.

(Also, your understanding of sandboxes is rather faulty, but that's really not the point here.)

Re:No flash support

[Vitani]

You're right, there is a big difference between the display device (Flash) and the content (the video).

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

Flash has been H.264 for over 2 years. It's time for Web publishers to stop forcing Flash on us and just give us the raw video and let us play it in whatever player we like.

Re:No flash support

[slim]

+1

A large userbase of machines like this, for which the only realistic video option is H.264, is going to force video sites to provide H.264. Effectively forcing them to choose a format that involves paying MPEG LA licence fees.

Since Apple gets some of those licence fees, they'll be delighted with this.

For webmasters, the only options will be:
  - Pay for encoding/distributing H.264
  - Use an open codec, accepting that iPad/iPhone users won't be able to view
  - Don't do video

It's pretty underhand.

Re:No flash support

[Neoprofin]

Doesn't change that most decent 3d modeled games eat through that battery like popcorn. Just means you have to plug it in more often. I don't think the power consumption of flash is an issue.

Re:No flash support

[Xest]

I agree Apple seem to want to move in a direction involving greater control for them and even less openness, but I'm not sure money made by the app store is the reason. See here:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/26/app_store/

Apple seem to be suggesting themselves that iTunes and the App store don't really make them that much money.

Re:No flash support

[slim]

I use it because it seems to put less of a load on my machine.

However, in Chrome, the video looks a lot more pixelated than when viewed in Flash. Perhaps Flash is doing some smoothing?

Re:No flash support

[itsdapead]

The biggest storage is a 64GB flash drive? I replaced the 160GB drive in my MBP with a 320GB drive, and it's too small for me. Falcon

...so use your iPad to stream your video from your media server as H264. Yes, you can now watch pr0n in bed without getting heat rash from your Macbook's hard drive.

Folks, this isn't a laptop replacement or a phone replacement.

Re:No flash support

[nick.cash]

Even on Windows (yeah, I know... I'm forced to use it at work, same story as everyone else), it's the only real program that ever seems to cause crashes. In my case, I listen to last.fm all day long, and occasionally when opening multiple tabs where one tab is loading and I'm trying to open others, it totally crashes Firefox. Without Flash, this never happens.

This shouldn't be hard to avoid, given what Flash does. I can only assume that it's a poorly written program.

Re:No flash support

[Transfinite]

Which means no hulu.com, espn360.com or fancast.com. Somehow Mr. Jobs is touting this as a feature.

Yawn, Flash *IS* dying, the future is NOT flash, it's javascript HTML5 canvas. So yes I think Mr Jobs, Mr Youtube, Mr Vimeo, Mr Google, Mr Firefox..... are right on the money. No problem here please move along.

Re:No flash support

[nick.cash]

As already stated, Chrome does this. But it runs everything it can in different processes, so this isn't too surprising, Even if it didn't sandbox, a crash in Flash would only take down the one tab that had Flash. I imagine with a sandboxed system the same thing would happen.

Supposedly, IE8 also sandboxes plugins (I know there have been stories about it on slashdot even!), but I'll be damned if I can find a reference for this right now.

If IE8's sandbox model is actually decent (unlikely), that leaves only Firefox being left out of the sandbox playground. ...Also, I think we're using "sandboxing" here to mean that the plugin runs in a separate process. There are other meanings of sandbox, though. Java has always been considered "sandboxed", although browsers traditionally run it in their own process space. In this case, it just means that the Java plugin itself corrals its own programs from doing anything sneaky. This doesn't really apply to Flash (or Shockwave, or any of the other common web plugins) as it doesn't have such capabilities.

Re:No flash support

[Transfinite]

Dude, H.264 is proprietary, and that's what Apple want as part of the HTML5 specs. Also, it's what the Youtube et al HTML5 betas are running.

Wow you know so much....."H.264/MPEG-4 AVC is a standard for video compression. The final drafting work on the first version of the standard was completed in May 2003.".... Dick

Re:No flash support

[Transfinite]

Perhaps it's time you read some specs and educated yourself then.

Re:No flash support

[nick.cash]

I readily see the logic in what you're saying, but I'm terrified it might be true. I currently rather like Apple, primarily because I think OS X is a great OS. It's everything about Unix I like (and to be truly productive, need!) but still totally usable, attractive, and stable. On top of this, I think the way Applications work in OS X is utterly perfect. I can't believe no other OS does it this way.

But I've resisted getting an iPhone because I don't like the App Store distribution model. I happen to be a fan of Android phones, and I use Google Voice daily. Apple rejected the Google Voice app for iPhones and I couldn't fathom using a phone without it now. I'm sure there are other examples I could find of things that the iPhone won't do but more "open" phones will. Not that it can't do, but won't.
And that bothers me, inherently.

I have no intention of buying an iPad as is, but I sincerely hope this isn't a sign of where Apple's other computer offerings are headed. I love my Mac Book. But the things I love about it are things that wouldn't be remotely true if it were running the iPhone OS. (does it have an official name? "OS X but not quite" isn't very friendly)

So..uhhh...I guess now is a good time to ask...how are everyone's experiences with Darwin? Should I look into migrating there? If OS X dies out, I'll be quite sad indeed. Is the FOSS world prepared to step up to keep it going? I know it's only the Unix basis of OS X, but has anyone implemented any of the OS X GUI, or is it just a standard X Server? (sorry for somewhat offtopicness of this... and sorry that this is probably all information I could google easily, but I'm more interested in what everyone else has to say about it)

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

You're allowed to go first.

Re:No flash support

[ByOhTek]

Nope.

The mac laptop has an attached keyboard, something I don't care about (actually, like any laptop, I actually *do not* like this - I'm quite nearsighted)

Re:No flash support

[ByOhTek]

Nope. It has an attached keyboard, so it is different.

For a highly nearsighted individual, the attached keyboard reduces functionality, unless there is a swivel screen (like on most tablets - unfortunately, they are all tiny).

Re:No flash support

[ByOhTek]

Did they forget about the late 80s and early 90s?

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

the other explanation is that apple computers are a bit pooh; it's a bit more likely than adobe deliberately putting bugs into the mac version of the plugin isn't it....? oh and by the way, why would adobe do that? lol

as to the iphone, flash works very well on all the other smartphones, how come it uses too much cpu here.

the mental gymnastics people go through in order to convince themselves they're not getting ripped off by apple. sad but inevitable.

Re:No flash support

[Transfinite]

Then neither are you. Perhaps you should read the HTML5 specs.

Re:No flash support

[Ilgaz]

I am ready to bet that Apple, to show off their CPU, doesn't put a $2 h264 decoder chip inside the device. They were also cheap to pay Adobe for Flash on that device.

With fans (!) who can come up with standards arguments like that, why would they bother?

IMHO, 2 companies who aren't really small are mad about Apple choices now. Intel (Atom) and Adobe (Flash). They will sure make Apple pay for that. Adobe already does, see no 64bit support in pro apps on OS X but they exist on Windows.

Re:No flash support

[FlyingBishop]

That was a joke. Sorry. I shouldn't mix sarcasm with informed commentary.

Re:No flash support

[nahdude812]

Flash and Silverlight may be proprietary (for some narrow definition of proprietary: they both have public specifications and even fairly featureful open source implementations of both), but don't kid yourself into thinking this has anything to do with why they won't be permitted on that platform.

Apple rejects them for one reason only: they grant the user control over their own device, and Apple wants anything but that. You can run software with these (and the Java runtime which also won't be permitted past the Apple gatekeepers), which you didn't downloaded through Apple's exclusive and tightly controlled distribution channel and which isn't just an elaborate webpage.

Apple won't let any virtual machine or runtime compiler on their hardware no matter how standards compliant it might be. They even blocked the Commodore 64 emulator for a while because being able to run software from almost 30 years ago that hadn't previously been approved by Apple was giving the user too much control over the hardware they own.

Re:No flash support

[dcarmi]

Apple TV! That is the reason for the failure. It should have been called iTV.... or is that taken?

Re:No flash support

[timeOday]

Heh, I probably would have taken it the right way if the next 100 comments hadn't been rationalizations of why not supporting Flash is good.

I am aware of its problems, but for me FlashBlock Firefox plugin is the solution because I can still play whatever flash I do want.

Re:No flash support

[Anonymous Coward]

How was the parent modded Insightful? This is a Troll if I've ever read one. Apple doesn't care about OS X? That's the biggest bunch of baloney I've read recently.

Re:No flash support

[FlyingBishop]

Likewise.

Though Flashblock is somewhat imperfect. I'd prefer it pretend my browser doesn't support Flash until I want Flash, rather than pausing the Flash quickly.

Re:No flash support

[Enderandrew]

Apple is helping drive HTML5, but Firefox has a much larger market share, and they're trying to push HTML5 as well. Let's not forget Google and Chrome.

Re:No flash support

[intheshelter]

The iPhone is proprietary? Is that really your argument? Isn't EVERY device manufactured proprietary then? You idiot, try and think before you post.

Re:No flash support

[Trails]

Indeed. You realise that the browsers you enumerated do not account for the majority of the market share, right? I'll give you a hint Micro_____. No wait, that's too obvious, how about _____soft?

So less than half of the browser market share has some (often incomplete) support for HTML5. Awesome, let me go recode all my sites now!

Re:No flash support

[Trails]

You realise we're discussing HTML5, right?

It's a spec, not an app, authored by a consortium of people with, in some cases, questionable commitment to interoperability.

HTML5 is not an apple product. All your talk of polish on apple products is accurate but irrelevant.

Re:No flash support

[Simetrical]

Flash and Silverlight won't see the inside of this box because they are both proprietary and HTML 5 can do everything flash or silverlight can do in a standards based way (just ask google voice).

Um, not quite. HTML5 is awesome, yes, but it's not up to Flash's feature levels yet. Not even in the spec, let alone implementations. For example, audio input (along with webcam, etc.) is in the spec labeled as "Idea: yet to be specified". Let alone things that are a little more obscure or less obviously useful. Google Voice ain't going to work in pure HTML5 just yet.

But Apple is big enough to get major sites to make an iPhone app so they work anyway. So, minimal harm to them, lots of harm to Flash, which is great for the web.

Re:No flash support

[Simetrical]

Then neither are you. Perhaps you should read the HTML5 specs.

Have you actually done that? Because it's well over 600 pages in PDF format. No, I thought not, or else you'd realize that there are key things that HTML5 is still missing. Support for microphone/webcam input, for instance, is a glaringly obvious feature that has yet to be specced, let alone implemented.

Re:No flash support

[fiftyfly]

I live in Canada. What's this Hulu of which you speak? The sooner flash dies the better.

Re:No flash support

[snowgirl]

You realise we're discussing HTML5, right?

It's a spec, not an app, authored by a consortium of people with, in some cases, questionable commitment to interoperability.

HTML5 is not an apple product. All your talk of polish on apple products is accurate but irrelevant.

It doesn't have to be an Apple product. It's a spec that they're pushing, and someone was complaining that it didn't really do anything, just pushed a small incremental increase that is...

I was showing an analogy...

New Ipad

[snmpkid]

How will that new iphone fit in my pocket? its 10" diagonally!

Re:New Ipad

[Anonymous Coward]

You need some of the giant pocketed pants that niggers wear. You know, the ones that you can fit a telephone pole in the pocket.

Re:New Ipad

[Hatta]

I'm just waiting for Apple to announce the new iPud. Is that an iPud in your pocket?

Re:New Ipad

[natehoy]

Silly! You just need to buy iPants! They're shiny, and you can walk in them for about two hours until the batteries run out. Then the innovative active polymer reverts back to hard plastic until you recharge them from any iTunes-compatible computer.

Re:New Ipad

[iMac Were]

How will that new iphone fit in my pocket? its 10" diagonally!

You need an iPurse. Well, you need several - unless you're the kind of person who'd wear brown shoes with a blue frock.

Re:New Ipad

[NaCh0]

Sounds like a personal problem. I walk around with 10" in my pocket every day.

Re:New Ipad

[BetterSense]

I wonder what the Japanese, and people that speak other languages that don't have the frontal vowel in "iPad" are going to think when they hear that it's called the same thing.

"We are calling it the iPod!"

But your other thing was called "iPod"?

"No, not "iPod", it's "iPod"!"

???

Re:New Ipad

[Anonymous Coward]

That's no telephone pole, they're just happy too see you.

What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

Re:What is the point?

[dave024]

Yeah I'm surprised they haven't mentioned anything about it supporting either Verizon or AT&T's network. Maybe it is still coming...

Re:What is the point?

[clampolo]

Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I was expecting the thing to have a different take on ebook readers. I'll stick to a kindle/nook with its eink and the smaller profile..

Re:What is the point?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Yes. Whether that is a weakness or a strength depends on what you want, though. I personally would rather have the tablet than an a Macbook Air.

Re:What is the point?

[eln]

It's more than just an iPod touch that won't fit in your pocket...it's also an underpowered netbook with no keyboard. It's the worst of both worlds!

Re:What is the point?

[chentiangemalc]

exactly, fail from apple. And LCD screens are poor for serious reading, so don't see this taking away the eReader market.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know!
Man, I wish they'd make a smaller version I could put in my pockets and maybe make calls with? ...oh wait!

Re:What is the point?

[natehoy]

I haven't read the slideshow in detail, but the thing does support Bluetooth. I wonder if it could work with a Bluetooth keyboard, and maybe mouse.

Mousing is going to be a toughie with an OS designed for multitouch, but if you are using it for document editing and/or other stuff you'd at a desktop where an efficient input mechanism trumps any desire for multitouch, it could still be OK for specific tasks.

I dunno. I really like my wife's iPod Touch, and she's hankering for a netbook/larger screen version, but neither of us would have been willing to shell out the kind of bucks that Apple wanted for the iTouch (I won it in a writing contest). I can't imagine the price they are going to get for an A4-sized iTouch.

Re:What is the point?

[zstlaw]

It's more than just an iPod touch that won't fit in your pocket...it's also an underpowered netbook with no keyboard. It's the worst of both worlds!

No no no! It has a faster processor than the iTouch, better resolution that iPhone, and some nifty new features to make up for the lack of keyboard... Iit is more like a Nexus One that won't fit in your pocket!

Re:What is the point?

[TrippTDF]

I wish I had mod points... You nailed it.

Re:What is the point?

[pydev]

And LCD screens are poor for serious reading

You just go on believing that.

I have tried a bunch of eInk devices and they are complete junk. I have been waiting for a mainstream LCD-based electronic reader.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most netbooks have multitask OSs installed. This is worse on that count, too.

Even Slashdot's servers think so: CATPCHA for this post is capable.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

An underpowered Netbook that doesn't run Flash player.

Re:What is the point?

[Archangel Michael]

It's more than just an iPod touch that won't fit in your pocket...it's also an underpowered netbook with no keyboard. LAME!

TFIFY

Re:What is the point?

[Sl4shd0t0rg]

Yeah I'm surprised they haven't mentioned anything about it supporting either Verizon or AT&T's network. Maybe it is still coming...

From the summary "...though it doesn't have quite as much connectivity as you might expect, with no 3G connection built in. (You'll have to make do with 802.11n, Bluetooth, and tethering.)"

Re:What is the point?

[arose]

I want to see this picture, but with a scratched iPad in place of the netbook.

Re:What is the point?

[VoiceInTheDesert]

Not only is just a big iPod touch...it's been done before by someone else.

http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/index.html?country=mz&lang=en

Archos has had these little multi-media things going for a couple years now. That one isn't quite as big as the iPad and it's probably short a few features here and there on things like Multi-touch...but it has wifi, hd video, hd sound..and it costs 350 instead of (what I'm hearing) 800 for this thing.

It wouldn't be an Apple product if it didn't cost way more than comprable hardware though.

Re:What is the point?

[nine-times]

It's kind of a big, powerful, expensive iPod touch with better battery life and a big screen and optional 3G networking. Yeah. Of course, the iPod touch is sort of a tiny tablet computer, arguably too small for lots of tasks, so a big one makes a certain amount of sense.

Re:What is the point?

[syousef]

It's more than just an iPod touch that won't fit in your pocket...it's also an underpowered netbook with no keyboard. It's the worst of both worlds!

Steve Jobs will be releasing the new iPants in the next couple of months. The iPants have iPockets that will fit an iPad. If you don't own a pair you won't be iCool anymore, so better save up those iPennies.

Apple has always released crippled products and insisted that they were superior. You had to wait till iPhone 3.0 to have MMS and buy a 3rd party app (not available at release) to record video. These are things that have been standard in phones for 5 years. Apple's genius is not the product, it's the marketing which seems to catch out every wannabe geek and fashion victim.

Re:What is the point?

[jeffmeden]

They did the brilliant thing... supporting bluetooth tethering. That means it doesn't need either Verizon or ATT, as long as you have a phone that can deliver data via a bluetooth tether, just get the two close together and you have a mobile internet device. Now, if you have a data plan you probably already have something quite close to the iPad already on your phone, but that's beside the point. Apple doesn't really care if something else can do what it's new product does, they will simply do it with more shine and win marketshare with mindshare.

Re:What is the point?

[dave024]

Actually it looks like they just saved the 3G part for the end of the presentation....

Re:What is the point?

[doconnor]

There are lots of things that a iPod Touch with a larger screen would be useful for, like web browsing, book reading and movie watching.

Re:What is the point?

[Piquan]

I wonder if it could work with a Bluetooth keyboard

There's a dockable keyboard.

Re:What is the point?

[natehoy]

Well, there you go then. If you work on something that doesn't require massive amounts of horsepower, you could just have your own very portable computer to take wherever you want to go.

Yes, a netbook will be cheaper, more durable, more powerful, etc. But there's a lot of appeal to a flat unit you can use like a clipboard while resting back in your favorite lounge chair or sitting up in bed.

There will be a market for this. I probably won't be part of it, but mostly on price and lack of flexibility.

Re:What is the point?

[H0p313ss]

Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

Depends on how you spin it. I look at it as an eBook reader with an awesome web browser, GPS, WiFi, 3G, local storage, a MP3 player and access to the thousands of apps in the app store. Which, personally, is exactly what I've been waiting for to hit the market to handle my eBook and casual browsing needs. I'm sure I'm not alone here.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir truly made me laugh out loud. +1 Internets to you.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Jailbroken iPhone's work with Bluetooth keyboard, so presumably yes. However, there is no concept of a pointer on these things, yet...

Re:What is the point?

[TrippTDF]

Except... who is going to buy this? People that own iPhones!

Can you tether your iPhone?

Re:What is the point?

[pydev]

Wow, Slashdot group-think at its best again.

Let me say that again: I have tried eInk devices and I hated them. So have many others.

I have no problem reading on LCD screens. Neither do hundreds of millions of other people.

Re:What is the point?

[IronChef]

It's also a $500 16GB USB device with no mass storage mode! Assuming that it works like the iPhone.

If I could drag 'n' drop content to this thing, it might, MIGHT be on my shopping list. A 10+ hour color ePub reader would be truly swell. But forcing me to use iTunes sync is a complete killer because it prevents me from adding content from two different computers.

Say I am at home with my iPhone. I sync the device to my computer and copy over books and music. Then I go to work, and a coworker says, "check out this mp3."

I want to put the mp3 on my iPhone so I can listen to it later, maybe in the car on the way home. But I can't. My iPhone is paired to my Mac at home, and if I want to put an MP3 on while I am at work, iTunes insists on erasing the device first. (It doesn't do this for some data, like contacts, which sync at home & work with no problem.)

I still use a Zune, a BROWN Zune, because it has a "guest mode." Mass storage support would be better, but at least with guest mode I can manage the content from the 2 machines I use most, home and work.

If I am a moron, and I have missed some obvious way to do that on my iPhone, I will happily take a -5 iTard moderation if someone tells me how to do it.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dont' forget that it's also a kindle with added eye strain.

Re:What is the point?

[jitterman]

I imagine this is a very subjective topic. I have books on my iPhone, but I received a Nook for Christmas, so I've been able to compare. I prefer reading on the Nook. The relatively slow page refresh doesn't bother me (it's actually not that bad IMO), and I *do* find that e-Ink is close enough to ink-n-paper print that it makes for a much easier read than back-lit LCD screens. But clearly, not all of us will prefer the same reading platform.

I have to agree with part of the GP's statement: this probably won't take away from the eReader market. What it might do, though, is provide a good alternative for people, like yourself, who do prefer LCD displays. That's a good thing, as it gives that segment a way to keep many books/magazines/etc. with them in a format and on a viewing device they enjoy.

Re:What is the point?

[Alinabi]

Yeah, but it will come in handy when you get your iPeriod.

Re:What is the point?

[hey!]

Hmmm. The thing about the iPod is that the killer features is the integration of iPod/iTunes/iTunes store. The devices are nice of course, but each part of this triangle has significant limitations.

The key is that they all work together to support use cases that consumers find convenient and valuable. That's why "iPod Killers" never kill. You have to get all three pieces, and that is hard especially the store end of things.

Now Amazon nailed it with the Kindle. The Kindle is not the best eBook reader, but Amazon + WhisperNet + Kindle work together better than anything anybody had ever seen before. You can make a better eBook reader, but what you really have to do is to make sure that whole source to use chain has no serious mistakes in it (like not having enough books to sell, having lousy battery life, or having DRM so restrictive it interferes with the primary use of the devices).

So you can't look at this device and say "meh", because it has never been the best device that wins. It's the affordable looking system that offers a convenient solution for something consumers value that wins.

You're going to have to see the whole thing in action to know whether this is "meh" or not. I suspect it may be, but I'm not shorting Apple stock yet.

Re:What is the point?

[jalefkowit]

That means it doesn't need either Verizon or ATT, as long as you have a phone that can deliver data via a bluetooth tether, just get the two close together and you have a mobile internet device.

Unless your carrier has disabled tethering on your phone, which many (most?) do. There are tons of phones out there that are technically capable of tethering but have that feature disabled at the carrier's request.

Re:What is the point?

[scorp1us]

Where did you see this?

I won't ever buy it if I have to pay for *two* *unlimited* data plans, when I already pay for one.

Re:What is the point?

[Godai]

This is probably a stupid question, but marketshare of what? Does the tablet industry even really exist yet? You're right about Apple, but I thought they generally waited until there was something to capture. Neither the iPhone nor iPod created a market, they just took over what was there.

What's actually there to take right now in the tablet space? Or is the tablet market is bigger than I give it credit?

Re:What is the point?

[BarryJacobsen]

Except... who is going to buy this? People that own iPhones! Can you tether your iPhone?

Yes, but I jailbroke mine ages ago. Can't wait to jailbreak an iPad, too!

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm, jailbreak? That's all there is to it, it's pretty easy to do these days....

Re:What is the point?

[WinterSolstice]

I agree - I find that the same epub format book on my laptop or phone screen is harder to read late into the night than my e-ink PRS-505.

Even if given one of these iPads, it wouldn't replace that Sony. It might replace a Kindle if I had one, though - the Kindle is probably my least favorite form factor of all time.

My point being that while this isn't an ideal device, it may be more/less competitive based on what personal devices a person has.

I'm more disappointed by the form factor. It doesn't seem to be a 'comfortable' size, based on the pictures of the people holding it. I guess seeing one in a store would clear that up.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but is it better than the laptops and Kindles that people already own? I don't see anything there that justifies spending another $500. It certaintly isn't going to replace my laptop.

Re:What is the point?

[nyctopterus]

Exactly! That's what I bought my iPod Touch for. If the iPad had been out, I would have got that. It would also serve as small computer to take out of the house (I have a desktop) when I expect I'll want to write anything or show people something.

Re:What is the point?

[Imagix]

If I've got a device that size, I'll go use my desktop. And for book reading, the 10 hour battery life is lousy, I'll keep my Kindle with the 2 week battery life. For movies, I've got a TV with an actual sound system. Sorry, I'm underwhelmed by the iPad. It's an iPod with more screen real estate, and still no way to distribute one's own apps except by the app sort (OK, other than jailbreaking it).

Re:What is the point?

[shutdown -p now]

They did the brilliant thing... supporting bluetooth tethering. That means it doesn't need either Verizon or ATT, as long as you have a phone that can deliver data via a bluetooth tether, just get the two close together and you have a mobile internet device.

You don't need bluetooth tethering for that. You just need to go for UMTS 3G, and provide a slot for a SIM card. I buy one from whichever provider I want, stick it in, and it just works, no tethering involved.

That said, it's not like bluetooth tethering is anything new, either. I've been using it for several years now. Not sure what's brilliant about it - I would be extremely surprised to see a Bluetooth-enabled device (notebook, netbook or tablet - doesn't really matter) that wouldn't support that.

Re:What is the point?

[Duradin]

Try unchecking the sync button.

Re:What is the point?

[shutdown -p now]

I have tried a bunch of eInk devices and they are complete junk. I have been waiting for a mainstream LCD-based electronic reader.

While I prefer eInk myself, I can understand that this is highly subjective, and that some people would prefer more traditional screens. That said, for a reader, I think that an OLED screen would be preferable (which iPad doesn't have), so if I were you, I'd rather be looking forward to ASUS DR-570.

Ironically, that one has 3G, and is more compact, so it may turn out to be a better "web tablet" than iPad, as well as a better ebook reader.

Re:What is the point?

[eabrek]

With a 9.7" screen?

Re:What is the point?

[Zerth]

Pricing starts at $500, oddly enough. I expected it to be more like $1000.

Unless it is under .5" thick, I'd probably rather get one of those flippy screened netbooks, or tablet mod my current one.

Re:What is the point?

[Chris Pimlott]

But what if I need iPants now because iShatMyself?

Re:What is the point?

[sammy baby]

Basically it's a Kindle DX, only with color, games, a touchscreen, and its own office suite. The base model is ten dollars more than the DX.

Re:What is the point?

[jeffmeden]

Steve Jobs: "a Netbook is the worst of both worlds! [it only lasts for 10 hours and doesn't fit in your pocket] however our iPad is the best of both worlds, it lasts 10 hours and won't fit in your pocket!"

Why would anyone want an iPad if they already have a smartphone, when they can buy a kindle (for less) to read books, arguably the only thing it does better than a smartphone?

But don't worry, soon there will be about 4.5 million brainwashed followers out there handcuffed to their iPad wondering how they lived without the thing they had no practical use for before they bought it.

Re:What is the point?

[Yhippa]

To be fair, Apple probably made the decision to get the base product in the hands of customers. You can choose to buy it or not. Nobody is putting a gun up to your head or anything. I have a Palm Pre and it seems like it gets additional useful features every few months that go by. I'm OK with that. I liked the base functionality enough where I was willing to sacrifice having a video player and an app store right now. Iterative releases aren't always bad. I'm okay with delayed inclusion of features as long as the overall package makes my life better.

Re:What is the point?

[Remus Shepherd]

Um...people who own (or wanted to own but held off) a Kindle.

The iPad is an ebook reader. It sounds as if they geared it toward that particular purpose and got rid of a lot of extraneous abilities. Ebook readers don't need cameras or flash or GPS.

They may have miscalculated the public's reaction -- the public wanted a super-device that incidentally was a superior reader. That might sink the iPad. But Apple wanted an ebook reader, and that's what they made.

Re:What is the point?

[niittyniemi]

I still use a Zune, a BROWN Zune...

You're brave. I'd rather 'fess up to kiddy fiddling on /. than owning and using a brown zune ;)

Re:What is the point?

[Captain Splendid]

I want to put the mp3 on my iPhone so I can listen to it later, maybe in the car on the way home. But I can't. My iPhone is paired to my Mac at home, and if I want to put an MP3 on while I am at work, iTunes insists on erasing the device first. (It doesn't do this for some data, like contacts, which sync at home & work with no problem.)

Have him email it to you. Or FTP it somewhere. There's plenty of ways to get things on your iphone/touch without syncing.

Re:What is the point?

[BitZtream]

Yes, I tether my iPhone all the time when I end up somewhere with no wifi and time to kill.

Also, I won't be buying this device, since its just a bigger iPhone or iPod Touch. You don't need to tether if you get the one with data built in.

I actually may purchase one to put in my boat however, to replace the dash cluster. Currently I've got a prototype implementation using a old macbook for display, but without the touch screen its purely a static display, with a iPad I could actually make it a dynamic display.

I'll have to wait and see how well it can be waterproofed, but I was going to buy a 10 inch touch screen to get the dynamic dash anyway, this would probably work out better since the OS is more touch centric rather than keyboard/mouse centric. Not that its a big deal, but the GUI widgets being designed for touch makes things a lot easier, especially with multitouch.

I wonder how good the multitouch would work when it gets water droplets on it.

Re:What is the point?

[elnyka]

Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I was expecting the thing to have a different take on ebook readers. I'll stick to a kindle/nook with its eink and the smaller profile..

I'd actually go for an iPad to tell you the truth. I have a kindle and I like it... for what it is. But I have a ton of PDFs and videocasts (all work-related) that I can't use on my kindle. All that stuff I have to carry on burned DVDs and thumb drives. Having them, and watching them in one of these thingies would be so convenient.

Considering that I paid over $300 for my kindle when it came out, I think this is a well-priced gadget... for what it is. Whether I can afford to for almost $500 right now for one of them, though, that's another thing :)

Re:What is the point?

[Nyeerrmm]

Exactly. I have an air that I carry with me most everywhere -- I'm a student and like being able to work wherever I end up. (To defend myself from the detractors, yes its underpowered and expensive, but I was tired of dealing with Linux laptops, I had the money, its light and more pleasant to use than a small netbook, and I still like it).

Looking at this, if done right, it could eliminate many of my needs, making it easier to pair this with a cheaper, heavier, more capable notebook. You can get browsing/research, document reading, SSH stuff, etc. done on a smartphone, but its not especially pleasant.

Of course, if its done right and does prove useful and the UI is a better paradigm, I'm curious to see if we end up with a flood of android/other-based tablets, as opposed to current desktop-os based tablets. That could be very interesting.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

it may be more/less competitive based on what personal devices a person has.

Fascinating observation, Professor Obvious! You mean people may have varying opinions about the device's usefulness depending on what specific uses they would have for it?!

I like your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:What is the point?

[narnarone]

The innovation on display with the iPad is one of interface and quality control if you will. For better or worse, for 90% of the population that uses computers migrating away from installing and managing software/OS to one where iTunes and the app store serve as both gatekeeper and quality control will yield a highly enjoyable computer experience. Less crashes, less malware, more overall productivity. This gives apple much more control but response has been very positive with the iPhone.

Re:What is the point?

[elnyka]

Well, there you go then. If you work on something that doesn't require massive amounts of horsepower, you could just have your own very portable computer to take wherever you want to go.

Yes, a netbook will be cheaper, more durable, more powerful, etc. But there's a lot of appeal to a flat unit you can use like a clipboard while resting back in your favorite lounge chair or sitting up in bed.

There will be a market for this. I probably won't be part of it, but mostly on price and lack of flexibility.

Exaaactly. This is not a product for a customer base made out of power computer/laptop video-streaming users. It could perfectly appeal, however, to a mass of netbook users who only care about checking e-mails, sending/storing pictures (pretty much the standard user profile in, say, Japan). Reading books and googling things out on it, that's another plus.

I can see a lot of netbook users wanting to get one of these. It would have been perfect for my wife (for whom I got a netbook and loves it), except that with a one-year old baby this iPad thing would be a lot more fragile than the netbook she already has.

The problem with a lot of /. posters (or people in general) is that they equate themselves with *what they think* is the average customer on *what they think* is an homogeneous computing market. If we really pay attention, this is not even close to market reality.

Re:What is the point?

[Sandbags]

underpowered? I know of VERY few netbooks that can handle 720p video, let alone ANY 3D gaming at all.

Oh, and a netbook is heavier, runs batteries down faster, and has to be patched and maintained like a PC (which means AV etc), and all the software you have on your PC needs a seperate license to run on the Netbook (if it runs at all). It's also not landscape/portrait native, doesn't support multi-touch, and doesn't feel right as an e-book reader.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://imgur.com/uWIDR

Re:What is the point?

[doconnor]

I think the main market for this is people who don't have a laptop, or a laptop is over powered for what they do with it.

Re:What is the point?

[Overzeetop]

Not with an LCD screen it's not an eReader. There's a world of difference between an eInk display and a backlit LCD. The LCD can do so much more, so much better, but eInk still takes the cake for readability and power consumption. Which is why the Kindle goes 2 weeks on a charge vs 10 hours.

I did notice that they compared the $500 (min) iPad to the $280 Kindle, instead of the $489 Kindle DX. That's natural, as the DX has the exact same size screen (9.7") as the iPad, so the comparison wouldn't be quite as stark.

Re:What is the point?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Yeah it's really an issue of what it does do, not what it doesn't do. It has the iPhone's browser, instant on, light-weight, and long battery life. That has some value with me. It plays QTs, which would be helpful at work. That has some value with me. I don't know if it's worth $500 to me, but we'll see when I get to play with one.

It not having the ability to store cold beers in it doesn't lower it's value. It just doesn't raise it. The 'worth-getting' price goes up when it supports Flash, for example. If it had an SD slot, the worth-getting price would go up further. If it had a networking feature that'd grab stuff like JPGs and QTs off the network, the worth-getting price would go up. They haven't quite sold me yet, but my curiosity is piqued.

Re:What is the point?

[Xamusk]

Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

Depends on how you spin it. I look at it as an eBook reader with an awesome web browser, GPS, WiFi, 3G, local storage, a MP3 player and access to the thousands of apps in the app store. Which, personally, is exactly what I've been waiting for to hit the market to handle my eBook and casual browsing needs. I'm sure I'm not alone here.

Oh, you were waiting for a Nokia N900?

Re:What is the point?

[Xamusk]

Basically it's a Kindle DX, only with color, games, a touchscreen, and its own office suite. The base model is ten dollars more than the DX.

And much smaller battery life to support those "features"

Re:What is the point?

[NevermindPhreak]

More importantly, someone explain to me why this is better than a T91, which has most of its features, and a keyboard, and a swivel screen so you can use it like a netbook, etc.

Re:What is the point?

[Overzeetop]

You're dead on. It's not going to be a great ebook reader because of the screen, but even in the stock config it would be nice for lounging about the house surfing the net (which I do about 10:1 over TV watching). The lack of flash is going to really get under the skin of all those FB users who want to play games, though, along with having missing parts of a lot of websites. That's the real fail here. Otherwise, it's a cool device in it's niche.

Re:What is the point?

[H0p313ss]

Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

Depends on how you spin it. I look at it as an eBook reader with an awesome web browser, GPS, WiFi, 3G, local storage, a MP3 player and access to the thousands of apps in the app store. Which, personally, is exactly what I've been waiting for to hit the market to handle my eBook and casual browsing needs. I'm sure I'm not alone here.

Oh, you were waiting for a Nokia N900?

Certainly the same price point and many of the same features. I've been tempted by the N900. But since my current phone already fits my needs nicely I'm more tempted by the iPad as a bookreader/browser. (But my inner geek is conflicted... handheld linux is just so damn sexy)

Re:What is the point?

[mliu]

It's also an eBook reader with a traditional LCD display that burns your eyes as you stare at it for hours, as opposed to all the actual eBook readers that use e-ink displays which are frontlit, like paper, or a book.

Re:What is the point?

[natehoy]

My wife does most of her websurfing on an iPod Touch today, and her biggest complaint is the screen size.

She's been bugging me for a netbook but when it came down to a choice between that and upgrading the desktop, she chose the desktop. She's not really sure about the netbook form factor for sitting-in-the-bed-surfing and getting-a-little-work-done-portably tasks. She's unhappy with our old Dell D600 for that, and fears that the netbook might be just more of the same with a smaller screen.

Once she hears about this, she'll probably want one. We'll see...

Re:What is the point?

[WaywardGeek]

Agreed. E-book reader is the killer app for 10" tablets. Replace the display with a sunlight readable Pixel Qi, thus reducing the battery size and price. I think it should run Ubuntu Netbook Remix, and be price-competitive with the Kindle, meaning around $300 or less. I think we'll start seeing these things later this year!

What's up with all the wasted screen space on the iPad? It's got like 1" all the way around with no purpose other than the "Home" button. Couldn't they have shrunk this device a ton, or offered a larger screen?

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as someone who actually has one (actually, the Archos 5 -- same thing, just a 5 inch screen, as opposed to the 7 inch screen), I think I'll be keeping mine. I'm very satisfied with it.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that in the tech specs (http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/ ) it indicates that "assisted GPS", whatever that is, is only in the 3G capable model. Perhaps it locates based on cell tower signals? The Ipod Touch does something similar, but it doesn't work everywhere.

Re:What is the point?

[H0p313ss]

It's also an eBook reader with a traditional LCD display that burns your eyes as you stare at it for hours, as opposed to all the actual eBook readers that use e-ink displays which are frontlit, like paper, or a book.

I already spend most of my waking hours staring at an LCD screen in darkened rooms so I personally see this as a bit of a red herring. (I do read an awful lot of "conventional" printed books, but if I read outdoors in bright sunlight I get headaches already... so not being able to do it with a book reader is no loss for me since I do most of my reading in the evening.)

Re:What is the point?

[Nerdfest]

If Archos had opened up their OS (Linux based) to outside developers instead of locking it down for a couple of codecs, they could have owned the market 4 years ago.

Re:What is the point?

[stewbacca]

My thoughts exactly. I don't want a larger iPhone. I want a smaller Macbook.

Re:What is the point?

[AnotherShep]

Pixel Qi is cool, but if you think UNR is a good solution, you're out of your mind. Don't get me wrong, I use it and don't mind it at all, but it's SO rough around the edges that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else if there is a better option.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt that it will be very productive for the individual, but it can certainly be productive for the companies that own the copyright to music, movies and books.

It is a dumbed-down computer that you can't program, except by committee. I gave Apple the benefit of the doubt that they would include some form of touch-screen technology that would allow you to use a pen to draw. A pad for creating art as well as for enjoying art. Apple's advert kind of hinted at that. But no. It's basically as creative as a TV is. Sit down and watch.

But I'm an optimist. I hope it spurs other manufacturers to release a pad that you can truly be productive on and I hope that the Apple chip gets hacked and gets a Linux distro soon.

Re:What is the point?

[Gilmoure]

Yup, exactly what I want. Am just planning on using it around the house or in the car on long trips (keep the kidlet lobotomized). Am glad there's an option for no 3G like the iPod touch.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

My shitty attempt at Photoshopping:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2wd7y8k&s=6

Re:What is the point?

[Gilmoure]

$500 for base model (wifi only, 16GB RAm).

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

And your pointless stupid attempt at humor added what astute commentary to their post?

Re:What is the point?

[seebs]

Something without multitouch is not "comparable".

I buy devices for what they do, not how much silicon they need to accomplish it. Same reason we get hours and hours of gameplay from the Wii, and my PS3 has been sitting on a shelf, not even plugged in, for most of the last year; the PS3 is way more powerful, but the games I want to play are on the Wii.

Re:What is the point?

[WaywardGeek]

Agreed, but what's the better option? Android? I want Open Office, for example. I'd like to develop directly on the device, not through an emulator. I'd say, run UNR, but work closely with Canonical to get it working very with the new tablet e-book readers.

Re:What is the point?

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

Anyone know if the iPad can be used *without* a computer? My iPod Touch still needs a computer running iTunes when I want to update the system software... which is a pain in the arse really!

Re:What is the point?

[Old97]

Some key differences other than the larger display: 1) supports a bluetooth keyboard; 2) available dock with a keyboard; 3) supports a full blown office suite - iwork

But don't underestimate the difference a larger display makes when reading, watching video or playing games.

That means it really is a better alternative to a PC, Laptop or Netbook for people who do only basic office tasks, surf the net, read books, play games, e-mail, maintain contacts and calendar, watch movies and listen to music. That group includes my wife. Frankly I rarely need a laptop as I don't tend to do development while traveling on my own time. Otherwise I'd use my work laptop.

I love this device and as soon as there is a 128gb version with a camera, I'll get one for me. In the meantime I'll get one for my wife and then monopolize it until I get my own.

Re:What is the point?

[exomondo]

better resolution that iPhone

Actually it has a WORSE resolution than the iPhone (132ppi Vs 163ppi), the screen is just bigger, but not as sharp.

Re:What is the point?

[kaiidth]

Basically it's a Kindle DX, only with color, games, a touchscreen, and its own office suite.

And:

* Crap battery life (10 hours instead of weeks, or about four days if you leave on the wireless).

* Added weight (0.73kg instead of 0.53kg for the Kindle DX, against 0.36kg for a Sony Daily Edition). Several reviewers have reported that they found the Kindle DX too heavy compared to the competition, which given that it's an ebook reader seems like a reasonable comment. The DX is already pretty heavy.

* Several hundred dollars of difference in price, assuming you want 3G; the base model has very little in common with the Kindle DX.

I'm not saying this because I'm a fan of the DX; personally, I loathe the design, the inability to add extra storage and the essentially proprietary nature. But if you're going to compare, compare like for like. This does not fit the existing niche for ebook readers very well, being rather heavy, rather expensive, and prone to run out of battery half way through a long haul flight - frequent travel and student life seem to be the sort of use case that suit existing ebook reader designs the best.

It's also not ideal as an office tablet, given the lack of input devices - you can dock a keyboard on all sorts of devices. Lots of people buy bluetooth keyboards for use with portable devices. I don't think I've ever seen a person using one in an airport, except for me, and I'm a vi masochist.

Perhaps there is a large niche for not very good but very expensive ebook readers that also offer not-very-practical but very expensive office-suite functionality and moderately acceptable but very expensive media playback. Perhaps people will just buy it so they can be people who own an iPad. Either way, it has very little in common with Kindle DX.

Re:What is the point?

[Remus Shepherd]

There is a large segment of the book reading public that do not care about battery consumption. They read at home or where there are power outlets. For them, LCD is superior to eInk in just about every way.

The market will decide which is superior. But the Kindle is the target competitor, not the iPhone or any full-powered laptop.

Re:What is the point?

[Golddess]

Some people would consider the lack of MMS and the ability to record video to be a feature.

No, I do not have an iPhone. I'm still using a 6 year old Sony-Erickson. And I'm not saying people who use their phones for more than just making phone calls are stupid, just that calling a phone crippled because it can't do MMS or record video is a matter of opinion.

Re:What is the point?

[mcgrew]

every wannabe geek and fashion victim

Real nerds are never fashion victims. When I was a kid, even if I hadn't carried a slide rule my coke bottle glasses would have given me away.

I never in my life ever thought that being a nerd would ever become cool. What a world!

Re:What is the point?

[Totenglocke]

It can run some programs an iPod / iPhone can't (like iWorks for $10) and the keyboard is much more usable for typing something big (like say editing a document or writing a long email). It's also easier to read websites on. As long as you're not going to flash-based video sites, I see this being much more useful than a netbook for the "only does email and web-browsing" users - also that starting price of $499 is pretty damn nice.

Re:What is the point?

[Fulg]

I wonder how good the multitouch would work when it gets water droplets on it.

It doesn't work very well. Try to use your iPhone outside the next time there is a light rain... (it's not to bad but it's enough to be annoying!)

Re:What is the point?

[rolfwind]

I have to agree with you. E-paper excited me at first, I got a second generation Kindle... only to be disappointed by the low contrast of black on light-brown-gray whatever. I don't like LCDs all that much for reading, but until they can get the e-ink background white (or reasonably close), count me out.

Re:What is the point?

[DragonWriter]

Not with an LCD screen it's not an eReader.

Its clearly not an ideal eReader.

OTOH, whether it is a good enough eReader is an open question.

The LCD can do so much more, so much better, but eInk still takes the cake for readability and power consumption. Which is why the Kindle goes 2 weeks on a charge vs 10 hours.

Sure, but is 2 weeks on a charge really that much better than 10 hours from a practical standpoint for most users? Once you get more time on a charge than you are likely to be away from a point where you can conveniently plug into to recharge, the marginal utility of additional battery life is low (its nice, but not all that important.)

The Kindle DX is a fairly optimized single-purpose device. The iPad is designed to be a "good enough" device for a wide variety of purposes. Its not as good of a reader as the Kindle DX, to be sure. OTOH, its a lot better web browsing tool than the Kindle DX, a lot better mobile media player than the Kindle DX, and a lot better platform for a wide array of other applications than the Kindle DX. And, yes, in each of those other roles, there are better narrowly-focussed devices than the iPad -- few of which are as good of an eReader at the price as the iPad is.

Re:What is the point?

[AnotherShep]

The better option tends to be "Anything that isn't commercial suicide". I would love it if UNR was a better option, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

It supports any standard Bluetooth keyboard.
You indeed can't use a mouse with the iPad (by design. maybe an app / jailbreaking will change that).

Re:What is the point?

[IronChef]

If, on the secondary PC, Sync is unchecked then iTunes doesn't let you add any content of that type to the iPhone.

If you check Sync, even if you only want to sync manually selected items, iTunes says, "The iPhone 'XXX' is synced with another iTunes library. Do you want to erase this iPhone and sync with this iTunes library?"

So it does not seem possible to add an MP3 to my iPhone from a foreign PC without clobbering the existing content on the device.

If I am misunderstanding you, seriously, please enlighten me.

(There are obviously workarounds like FTP or Airshare to get a file on the device. But they all have drawbacks, like MP3s you add that way will not be in the phone's iPod's database and you'll need an external player for them.)

Re:What is the point?

[_Sprocket_]

I have to agree with part of the GP's statement: this probably won't take away from the eReader market. What it might do, though, is provide a good alternative for people, like yourself, who do prefer LCD displays. That's a good thing, as it gives that segment a way to keep many books/magazines/etc. with them in a format and on a viewing device they enjoy.

Or even possibly expand the eReader market. There's still a lot of folks convinced that reading is for paper medium. If they end up with one of these iPads in their hands for other purposes, they might find themselves toying with reading electronic media and liking it. And then they might even go so far as look at a purpose-oriented eReader (whether they'll pick one up over their iPad is a subject for a different flame war / jihad / personal anecdote fodder).

Re:What is the point?

[gknoy]

There is a large segment of the book reading public that do not care about battery consumption. They read at home or where there are power outlets. For them, LCD is superior to eInk in just about every way.

Except, e-ink displays are reported to be easier on the eyes to read, because they are a reflective surface and not an illuminated one.

Having read books on my computer screen, the only advantage is that it scrolls relatively smoothly. Otherwise, my eyes felt like they'd been sucked out Gollumn-style after 4 hours of reading. I'd much rather read on an e-ink display, even if I were near an outlet. I am also unlikely to try and read in the dark, where an LCD screen would be more visible.

Re:What is the point?

[okmijnuhb]

I'll do the brilliant thing, and buy a magnifying glass to use on my iPhone.

Re:What is the point?

[WaywardGeek]

Hmmm.... so maybe a custom multi-touch desktop running GTK with a multi-touch overlay? Wouldn't it be easier to get UNR working well, since that's basically what UNR is?

I understand UNR isn't sold commercially on any netbooks, but the first thing I do is remove the OSes they do sell and install UNR. Why would I want a netbook or tablet that doesn't even ship with word processing?

Re:What is the point?

[Eil]

Hmmm. The thing about the iPod is that the killer features is the integration of iPod/iTunes/iTunes store. The devices are nice of course, but each part of this triangle has significant limitations.

The key is that they all work together to support use cases that consumers find convenient and valuable. That's why "iPod Killers" never kill. You have to get all three pieces, and that is hard especially the store end of things.

I got an iPod Touch right after Christmas (to replace my Nokia N800) and the iTunes integration is the thing that drives me the most crazy about it. I bought the device under the assumption that I would be able to use it to easily download, manage, and listen to podcasts. This was my first real Apple product and after having heard how cool the iPhone was and how easy Apple makes everything, I figured I couldn't go wrong.

To listen to podcasts on the N800, all I had to do was run gPodder. It automatically checked for new episodes, downloaded them, and kept track of which ones were new, which ones were downloaded, which ones I've already listened to, and which ones have been deleted. Very slick. Too bad the N800 kinda sucked for just about anything else.

After I got my iPod Touch, and after I had fiddled with the pinch zooming, inertial interface widgets, and slick web browser, I eventually discover that there's no podcast manager at all. And further investigation revealed that Apple won't allow a third-party one because they claimed it would compete with iTunes. The problem is, iTunes on the iPhone OS really, really sucks for listening to podcasts. You can only download podcasts that happen to be in the iTunes store. There's no way to just enter an RSS feed. There are no automatic updates and no automatic downloads, you're forced to memorize which episodes you've listened to and you have to download each episode one at a time. The only way to listen to podcasts that aren't in the iTunes store is to sync the device with a desktop computer running the full-blown version of iTunes. The iPod Touch is a portable wifi-enabled computer in its own right, I shouldn't have to sync it with fucking anything just to get content onto it. I have no computers that iTunes will run on, and of course, Apple encrypts communications to and from the device so no open-source software can connect to it either.

Convenient and valuable? Feh, I say.

Re:What is the point?

[hey!]

I understand. I happen to hate the iTunes store. I much prefer Amazon's MP3 download service. It meets my needs. I don't much care for the way iTunes wants to steer me to the latest episode of popular TV shows. I have no interest in that, and I always feel like I'm fighting the software to get it to do what I want.

But one thing I've learned after decades in this business is that you can't design products around your own preferences. I've seen that approach fail time and time again. I've even seen the same guys make the same mistake more than once.

It doesn't matter that I hate the iTunes store. Steve Jobs would be an idiot to design products that cater to people like me, because we're lousy, cranky, critical customers and cheapskates besides.

Re:What is the point?

[elrous0]

One of these days Steve Jobs is going to stand up on stage and literally offer up a big turd with a button on it. He's going to call it the "iFece," and make vague promises about it bringing "synergy," changing the world, and revolutionizing the way we think of turds. And on the day it goes on sale, a million Macheads will stand in line in the rain outside Apple stores across America to pay $1000 for one.

Re:What is the point?

[wall0159]

"It is more like a Nexus One that won't fit in your pocket!" ...except that Apple decides what apps and hardware you can or can't use with it.

Re:What is the point?

[Mr_Silver]

There are lots of things that a iPod Touch with a larger screen would be useful for, like web browsing,...

Except that you have no flash, no adblock and no ability to load another web-browser which competes against Apple because their store policy won't allow it.

...book reading

Reading in direct sunlight is going to be next to impossible. No information as yet on whether it is possible to load your own content onto there.

...and movie watching.

Just so long as you're happy encoding all your movies from XviD into Apple's preferred format. Want another media player that supports that codec? No sorry, Apple won't allow it. Fingers crpssed you don't get the infamous "Invalid Public Atom" Quicktime error as Apple still haven't got around to fixing that one yet.

Finally the $499 one has only 16Gb which isn't going to leave you much space once you've loaded up some music, books, pictures, applications and movies. Better suck it and upgrade to the one with more memory. Ouch.

It's sexy kit, but flawed in a lot of ways.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

All of us wannabe geek with CS graduate degrees and years (13+ in my case) of IT support and management experience, respond with a firm, "STFU."

Re:What is the point?

[mdwh2]

But for that market, any bog standard phone, tablet, netbook etc is an e-reader. And you can get that for far cheaper.

But the Kindle is the target competitor

Are you serious? So how is it better at the Kindle for e-reading? Because it certainly doesn't beat it on price!

Re:What is the point?

[Squeakstar]

So you can't look at this device and say "meh", because it has never been the best device that wins. It's the affordable looking system that offers a convenient solution for something consumers value that wins.

I'm saying "meh" already - what problem is it solving exactly? It's a giant iphone - without the calls; it can't multi-taks apps; it's another poncey bit of hardware for apple fanboys to salivate over and impose their misguided superiority over other OS/hardware users.

Re:What is the point?

[joost]

The problem is, iTunes on the iPhone OS really, really sucks for listening to podcasts. You can only download podcasts that happen to be in the iTunes store. There's no way to just enter an RSS feed.

Advanced > Subscribe to podcast... > enter RSS url.

Next question?

Re:What is the point?

[H0p313ss]

Let me Google that for you... in short assisted GPS is where you use the cell towers known physical position, along with the current time, to quickly locate and identify available satellites to speed up location acquisition.

Many devices that support AGPS will still work when cell towers are not available, but some won't.

In your defense, the only reason I know about this is having participated in the Openmoko mailing lists when the FreeRunner shipped and there was an initial issue with the GPS antenna picking up interference off one of the capacitors (?) connected to the microSD slot.

Re:What is the point?

[mdwh2]

In that case, it's just like a general purpose netbook (except more expensive and running a cut down phone OS), or any of the other tablets already out there.

Anyhow, the OP claimed it was an ebook reader, intending to replace the Kindle, which is clearly ludicrous.

Re:What is the point?

[mdwh2]

Neither the iPhone nor iPod created a market, they just took over what was there.

The Iphone didn't take over.

Re:What is the point?

[flynt]

It's funny enough that as of my posting, the menu immediately to the right of your linked picture contains an image of Jobs holding an iPad.

Re:What is the point?

[mdwh2]

So why not buy any one of the netbooks, phones or tablets that have been around for years? If you prefer LCD to the e-ink, you can get something much cheaper.

And this isn't mainstream (it's only just been announced), and there is no way to know if it will be.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not going to be a great ebook reader because of the screen

No, it won't. It has active lighting which makes it useless for extended reading. LCDs are acceptable for reading shorter articles, but for books, you're just ruining your eyes. eInk, or some similar tech that reflects light rather than emitting it, is much more suitable for extended reading periods.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

wannabe geek and fashion victim.

Internally at Apple it's less words to simply use 'Target Market'.

You just clearly don't understand the focus of this device. The iPad is clearly designed for people that want to be seen using an iPad.

Re:What is the point?

[Ma8thew]

You think a netbook is more durable? Apple's always had a good reputation for solid hardware. Their unibody laptops are built like tanks. You can hold them by one corner with no flex to it. Just because the iPad looks nice doesn't mean it's not also extremely sturdy.

Re:What is the point?

[mdwh2]

Ah, but it is at least more expensive than netbooks - more money for Apple! ;)

Re:What is the point?

[mdwh2]

But there's a lot of appeal to a flat unit you can use like a clipboard while resting back in your favorite lounge chair or sitting up in bed

What, having to hold it all the time in one hand? Flat just means it lies flat, which is not what you want unless you're walking around with it. I much prefer having a netbook/laptop sit on my lap or desk, with the screen automatically angled just right.

There will be a market for this.

I'm sure there is - tablets have been around long before Apple decided to play catch-up again.

Re:What is the point?

[93 Escort Wagon]

I want to see this picture, but with a scratched iPad in place of the netbook.

Actually, prior to the March ship date Apple is planning to introduce new apparel - the iJean. Their design includes 10-inch cargo pockets that are only 1/2" deep - perfect for the iPad.

Re:What is the point?

[DragonWriter]

In that case, it's just like a general purpose netbook

Except that the tablet format (which is less than ideal for anything that needs substantial text input) is more convenient for reading.

or any of the other tablets already out there.

Except that there are a dearth of tablet-focussed applications; running apps like an iPod Touch (iPhone apps that don't require the phone-specific functionality) basically gives it access to a vast library of mostly-inexpensive applications targetted at a tablet-like UI (most of them, at launch, will be apps designed for a smaller screen than the iPad has, but that isn't likely to be a big problem.)

Anyhow, the OP claimed it was an ebook reader, intending to replace the Kindle, which is clearly ludicrous.

Its pretty clear that one of the key selling points is utility as an eReader, and so, yes, one of things it is competing with is dedicated eReaders like the Kindle, Nook, etc. (And, since it runs iPhone apps, it has one clear advantage over the Kindle and Nook, in that not only can you use the bundled bookstore, but any supported by an reader app available for the iPhone.)

But its not trying to be a better single-use eReader than those, its trying to hit the sweet spot of being good enough at that while doing other things that people will see it better to get an iPad than getting a netbook and a dedicated eReader.

Re:What is the point?

[jesterpilot]

Come on, you're an Apple customer now. Why would you want to listen to podcasts which aren't in the iTunes Store? You don't want to anymore. You just don't, right?

Re:What is the point?

[PaganRitual]

I so did not post anon.

Re:What is the point?

[natehoy]

OK, maybe/maybe not more durable, though I'm not entirely convinced that an exposed 9+" glass screen with no significant edge protection and no front surface protection whatsoever could be built that durably.

The iPod Touch and iPhone are relatively rugged (for low values of rugged) because their glass surface is pretty small and they don't weigh a lot. So if it falls on a corner against the glass screen, there's not a lot of force behind that impact. And you don't have a large surface of relatively unsupported glass that will break before bending.

Take something that weighs 10 times as much, and has a larger surface to hit, and I have more doubts about the outcome.

This isn't an Apple criticism - they make things rugged, no argument.

But... That large a sheet of glass with no protective cover and not even a bezel around the edge... I fear the screen break rate is going to be very high on these.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know I keep seeing this argument about e-ink and I'm not convinced. I just recently got a touch - I never expect to read ebooks on the thing, but it's a surprisingly nice (and convenient) ebook reader. I sometimes read with it for hours and I don't suffer any more eye strain than I would with paper. Sure battery life doesn't compare - but it's rare that I will read for weeks in a single sitting (or be out of range of a power outlet for that matter).

This is of course my personal opinion, but e-ink and battery life are not enough for me to shell out $250-$500 for a device. However, the features that apple is advertising are likely to be enough for many people to shell out $500-$1000 for a device.

Re:What is the point?

[hey!]

I'm pretty sure most people who own iPods have never watched a MacWorld keynote, and have only a vague idea of who Steven Jobs is. So it's a mistake to believe Apple survives on its fanboys.

I'm as mystified as you as to why anyone would buy this thing. But my point is that it may not be embodied in the device at all. We'll have to see the services and apps that are built for the thing, and that might not come out right at the launch either. That would be characteristic. They staged the introduction of iPhone/touch features more slowly than they might have.

Re:What is the point?

[DrShoe]

With an iPad version of iWork, if you could email PDF's of the documents, print them and use a projector for a presentation. This could be a very useful device for a sales force.

Re:What is the point?

[tftp]

Have him email it to you. Or FTP it somewhere. There's plenty of ways to get things on your iphone/touch without syncing.

It is mighty stupid to have to email a multi-megabyte file when you hold the phone in one hand and the USB cable in another. On my planet such a product would be reviewed as "poorly done."

Re:What is the point?

[natehoy]

I understand that, but you've obviously never tried to use a laptop computer in your actual lap - while sitting up in bed or sideways in a couch, or reclining in a comfy chair. Your legs provide a perfect angle for viewing AND what little typing you need to do, and you don't need to hold it in either hand.

The desktop form factor is ideal for sitting at a desk. You can place your monitor at a perfect viewing angle, place your keyboard and pointing device at a good manipulating angle, place the box somewhere the hell out of the way, and have at it.

The laptop form factor is a compromise. It works OK at the desk but when you have the keyboard at the right spot you are looking down at the screen, and when you have the screen right your hands are way the hell up in the air. But it can be moved around and used somewhat comfortably on your lap, the kitchen table, etc.

The tablet form factor is designed for an entirely different usage pattern. It can be used while you are standing and moving around, sitting up in bed, reclining, or as a casual clipboard-style thing, which is not true of any other form of computer today.

And yes, they've been around for a while, but most of the operating systems for them are desktop OSes that were poorly adapted for the form factor. Apple, for all their faults, "gets it" on how a handheld computer should work.

It's a shame the thing is a nonextendable unit with nonreplaceable parts based on a closed operating system run by a company that has demonstrated incredible nannyism toward its users. Other than that, it looks great.

Re:What is the point?

[masmullin]

lies... very few people have ever tried to read an entire novel on a computer screen... its damn challenging

reading things like slashdot is not like reading a novel.

Re:What is the point?

[KnownIssues]

There are lots of things that a iPod Touch with a larger screen would be useful for, like browsing porn, reading porn and watching porn.

There. Fixed that for you.

Re:What is the point?

[masmullin]

enjoy your iPad then... the rest of us serious readers (those who have to read for work reasons) will be waiting for Plastic Logic.

Re:What is the point?

[slater86]

Why am I still waiting for an apple product that can do video calls that is not a laptop/desktop
They either have no camera at all (yes I know there seems to be a camera kit at "extra cost" for the iPad) or the camera is in the wrong direction for use with calls. Just stick a damn camera in the top like the iMac already.

I'd hardly even call this a tablet PC other than it is shaped like a traditional stone slate, I guess I'll need to wait for a thrid party app to be able to draw on the screen. It does eveything my iPhone already does except make calls...colour me unimpressed :-(

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, because everyone has "casual browsing needs" :P

Re:What is the point?

[uniquegeek]

My Archos 5 is multitouch (not sure about the 7). The iPad has 1/4 of the hard drive space for twice the cost of my Archos 5.

The other way of looking at their device is it's a touchscreen netbook. Wooo.

This doesn't really strike me as anything close to innovation.

Re:What is the point?

[asolidvoid]

I wonder if it could work with a Bluetooth keyboard

There's a dockable keyboard.

and a Bluetooth keyboard... so, yes.

Re:What is the point?

[NewbieProgrammerMan]

Wow, nice trick...double the karma just for restating your point. I'm impressed!

Re:What is the point?

[AmiMoJo]

gknoy is absolutely correct. People read to relax, and part of that is being able to relax your eyes with a lower contrast non-illuminated paper "display" rather than a backlit high contrast LCD. LCDs also tend to become unreadable outside of your office/home, while you can read an eInk screen on the train or outdoors without any problem.

You also have to consider the size of eBook readers. They fit in your pocket and are light weight to hold when reading. Ideal for reading on the daily commute or in bed. I'm not really sure what they expect you to do with the iPad - if you are on the go it's too large to carry easily without a bag and indoors you might as well just use your PC which is unrestricted and doesn't require you to hold it when sitting down to read.

Re:What is the point?

[skingers6894]

Yeah I reckon it is.

Having said that it's almost like someone said "Hey this iPod touch would be a reasonable netbook replacement if it had a bigger screen."

I think they are right, the iPod touch + app store makes it pretty versatile.

It's just not for everyone - especially geeks on /.

Re:What is the point?

[Stray7Xi]

For them, LCD is superior to eInk in just about every way

For them, LCD is superior to eInk in just about every way except for reading. You obviously haven't used eInk. It's like advertising HD movies on a SD screen, no one can tell the difference until they actually try it.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a big enough screen to do office stuff on, while a long enough battery life to last all day. Potential use-cases where apples other lines don't fit as well:

1. Student. Lighter and easier to carry around all day. Can do word processing on it with a virtual, nearly full size keyboard.
2. Frequent traveller. Ever tried to open up a laptop on a airline seat? easier in business class but the combined screen and keyboard is a plus here, as is the battery life.
3. um... ok, I'm out.

The point though is that even a macbook is kind of a pain to carry around classes, and the air is very expensive. I'm one of those sad individuals with five computing devices: iPhone, samsung netbook, apple macbook pro, Windows Vista Desktop, iMac 27". They each serve a different purpose. The laptop is good for going to friends and in the living area, but is too heavy to just grab if I'm not sure I'll need it. The netbook can do office type work, but is under-powered. On the plus I've been carrying it and had to check if it was there because you can't tell by the weight. The iPhone is good for un-expected websurfing and email needs, but can't help if I need to make a presentation or do some word-processing. The windows desktop machine makes a decent media server and games machine, but is a pain to do development on. the iMac's massive screen is better than two smaller monitors, and has a decent Unix system underneath.

I don't need the iPad because I have got it covered already. The netbook does what I would use the iPad for well enough. Also if I wanted it as a book reader I'd use an e-ink device (up to 3 weeks actual use, not just 10 hours). If my netbook got stolen though or mysteriously self-destructed I'd be tempted.

Re:What is the point?

[AmiMoJo]

You have no problem reading on LCD screens in your home/office on a desk.

Try reading one outside, or even on public transport or too near a window in your office.

Can you be a bit more specific as to why you hate eInk? It is pretty much the same as reading paper (since it is a matte display with ink on it) so presumably you also hate books and newspapers too, or am I missing something? Sure, the refresh rate is low, but not that much lower than my page turning or newspaper flipping speed.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

So it's computer hardware with a dumbed-down OS and no keyboard? And it has features to make up for the lack of keyboard, which was their own design decision?

Re:What is the point?

[AmiMoJo]

Haven't we had tablets for years already though? I remember seeing them in the mid 90s. Sure, this is thinner and lighter and maybe the interface is better than Microsoft's tablet OS but is that really going to sell it?

The fact that you can't run more than one app at a time means it can't really be used as a computer: who would settle for having to save their document, quit the word processor, load their browser, load a bookmark, makes some research notes (presumably on paper since you can't run a note taking app), quit the browser, load the wp back up and re-open the document? It's not even a very effective clipboard replacement because you can't just flick between different pages as your workflow requires.

So you can't really do much desktop computing on it. It's too big to fit in your pocket like a smartphone. In fact it's too big to easily type on like you can with a smartphone too, since your thumb can't reach all the keys but you still need to hold it.

Re:What is the point?

[Stray7Xi]

It's more than just an iPod touch that won't fit in your pocket

That's the best feature, even though I won't be buying one. That means people will need bags to hold it in. 2010 will be the year of the manpurse. Finally geeks will be able to carry gadgets in a convenient bag without getting mocked!

Re:What is the point?

[AmishElvis]

So, I'm in the market for an E-reader. Would the iPad be a better E-reader than the kindle or nook? The LCD display has pros (no annoying pause-and-flicker during page turns, night lite that doesn't suck, high contrast) and cons (battery life, glossy) but the 3G wireless access costs 19.99 per month instead of...nothing. That might be a deal breaker. I already have an iphone so features like web browsing, GPS, WiFI, etc don't really matter to me. It's not like I'm going to be carrying this thing around with me everywhere i go. Although, come to think of it, a small kindle or a nook would fit in one of my cargo pockets. this iPad thing needs a backpack.

I guess the games that come out for it might be cool. It remains to be seen how well the processor will handle it, but with a decent sized screen we might be able to get some nice RTS games or something. Although the same reasons large, quality apps on the app store are so few and far between will apply to this thing as well. If you write and sell software for a living, it's difficult to justify the risk of spending a lot of time and money to write an app given the stories about the app store's approval process being maddeningly arbitrary. Also, I think software development using X-Code and Objective-C is a miserable pain in the ass compared with... well... any other modern programming language at all.

Re:What is the point?

[man_of_mr_e]

As an owner of the Archos 7, I can tell you that it's not as nice as it seems. They nickel and dime you on everything. For instance, if you want AC3 playback, you have to buy an add-on for like $35. Also, it doesn't have 3G, doesn't have multi-touch, doesn't have 140,000 App Store apps (most of which probably won't even work on the iPad.. lol), doesn't have GPS or an Accelerometer. doesn't have a capacitance sensitive display (the pressure sensitve on the Archhos is not very good), and I could go on and on.. the A7 is a decent enough media player, but other than that it's basically useless.

Re:What is the point?

[tyrione]

better resolution that iPhone

Actually it has a WORSE resolution than the iPhone (132ppi Vs 163ppi), the screen is just bigger, but not as sharp.

And your laptop resolution is less than them both. The larger screen at 132ppi will pop to people currently used to laptops and desktops.

Re:What is the point?

[fsiefken]

Hi Joost, you confuse the iTunes for iPhone with iTunes for OSX or Windows. Subscribe to rss url is not possible in iTunes for iPhone or iPod.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

-1, Pedantic

Re:What is the point?

[tyrione]

There is a large segment of the book reading public that do not care about battery consumption. They read at home or where there are power outlets. For them, LCD is superior to eInk in just about every way.

Except, e-ink displays are reported to be easier on the eyes to read, because they are a reflective surface and not an illuminated one.

Having read books on my computer screen, the only advantage is that it scrolls relatively smoothly. Otherwise, my eyes felt like they'd been sucked out Gollumn-style after 4 hours of reading. I'd much rather read on an e-ink display, even if I were near an outlet. I am also unlikely to try and read in the dark, where an LCD screen would be more visible.

I spend 10 hours a day before my HP LP2475w H-IPS panel. My eyes don't bulge at all and I've got contacts.

Re:What is the point?

[DragonWriter]

Actually it has a WORSE resolution than the iPhone (132ppi Vs 163ppi)

PPI measures dot pitch (well, the reciprocal of dot pitch), not resolution (screen size, resolution, and dot pitch are all related, of course, but they aren't the same thing.) The iPad has a higher resolution than the iPhone, and a larger screen size; since the screen size is larger by a greater factor than the resolution, it also has a larger dot pitch (and, thus, lower pixels-per-inch.)

Re:What is the point?

[Hannahzee]

No multitasking. Enough said.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another smart move: enable iPhone iPad tethering... however AT&T/Apple will most likely not go for it, both hoping for the extra profit from the 3G version.

Re:What is the point?

[Kitkoan]

I have tried a bunch of eInk devices and they are complete junk. I have been waiting for a mainstream LCD-based electronic reader.

Its called a laptop. Most people here most likely are reading slashdot with them. They are also standard for desktops since few people still own a CRT screen.

Re:What is the point?

[exomondo]

PPI measures dot pitch (well, the reciprocal of dot pitch), not resolution (screen size, resolution, and dot pitch are all related, of course, but they aren't the same thing.)

You're then defining resolution as number of pixels which is useless, the Image Resolution is what you care about because it determines how sharp the image can be and therefore how good the display will look and that is the number of pixels relative to the size of the display, hence the use of dot pitch. Obviously 1024x768 is larger than 480x320 but when you compare the screen size as well you will see that an image will look sharper on the iPhone screen than the iPad screen.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats because your just not thinking far enough ahead. Trust me, I use to be the same way until I bought an Asus T91. (In every way superior than the iPad just FYI.) I originally bought it as a toy. Something to read books off of (cheaper than a kindle overall). Then I started doing other things, web surfing, email, movies, hulu, war driving, etc. Eventually I transitioned over to it 24/7. I use to carry both this and my laptops (Asus 1000H and a larger HP desktop replacement, it sucks so I wont say its name) This thing never leaves my side. Im now nearly 100% (Non desktop related) on this thing.

Think about it. To check a webpage, you have to, Unpack your laptop. (Optional) Plug it in, Start the thing up (Granted, these 3 can be quick, very quick) find a flatish surface, then load up the page. This thing, you just hold like a clip board and bring up the page. With Bluetooth, added internal Antennas and a G3 unit, Its even started to replace my phone. Sure its big, not exactly something you can slip into your pocket. But considering I use to always carry a laptop or two with me, Plus my phone (Non smart...) and an Mp3 player (see previous as to why). This is great.

My only complaint.. screen is irratingly small sometimes, and the battery life pales in comparison to my Asus 1000H (Which gets 12 hours, extended battery).

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me say that again: I have tried eInk devices and I hated them. So have many others.

Greetings to our world. We apologize - E-Ink was made for superior experience to humans. Since you are from AppleLand, it is no wonder that you find E-Ink worse...

Re:What is the point?

[langelgjm]

I have don't have any problem reading on LCD screens either. The point is not that you can't read on LCD screens, it's about how much you can and want to read on those screens.

I have a Kindle, and it's wonderful. I've read several thousand pages on it already. There is no way I would have read all that material on an LCD screen. The battery life is better than any laptop or netbook. It weighs less than netbooks.

Can I read material without it? Yes. But I don't want to anymore. Remember, just because someone disagrees with you, it's not group think.

Re:What is the point?

[ErkDemon]

That's the iPoo

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

ugh... as an e-reader? do you hate your eyes? or are you just already mostly blind? LCD screen e-readers suck. I don't care how awesome the device is or what magic it can do, but if it has an LCD screen, it automatically fails as an e-reader.

Re:What is the point?

[natehoy]

Hmm, I don't know. There's a difference between "running" an more than one application at a time and "having an application open". The iPod Touch does allow many applications to be "open" at a time.

In other words, as it stands right now on my wife's iPod Touch, she can go into an application and do something, then hit the HOME button and go back to that application, and nothing is lost. Nothing has happened with that application since she hit the HOME key (it wasn't running) but all the web pages she had open were still open, or whatever game she was in went back to wherever she left off.

I think (but I don't have one, so I can't say for sure) that you'll be able to pop from your word processor to your email and back without actually having to save your document and close the application.

This isn't as convenient as having the application actually running (as in, start some long process and go off and do something else while it finishes), but it's a far cry from the application totally terminating and having to be reloaded from scratch. My wife constantly hops back and forth between Safari, Facebook, and Gmail, and each app comes up exactly the way she left it.

The iPod Touch does it just fine - I'd have to imagine they'd carry this capability forward to the new iPad. If you have the applications you use most frequently on the same page (and this thing is big enough to hold a LOT of application icons on the first page!) you can switch between them with two clicks (home, then the app icon you want).

As far as form factor and typing, I'm not sure but I think I'd prefer this type of layout. Assuming, of course, that I could hold it like a clipboard while standing and use 5 fingers of one hand to type, or set it on a desk for brief heads-down typing.

I'd still prefer an actual hard keyboard for mass text entry, but I can see the form factor being handy for casual use. Especially if I could get some sort of decent keyboard and still have the capability to scribble out drawings interspersed with the text, this would be a major boon at meetings.

The trouble is, no one has gotten the interface right. I remember seeing the experiments with tablets in the 90s, and the technology was NOT ready at that point. I don't know if it is now, and I don't know if Apple has it right, but based on my experience with the iPod Touch I'd say they've come the closest anyone has so far.

Re:What is the point?

[yabos]

Yes I can tether my iPhone simply by plugging it into my Mac and having tethering enabled on the iPhone. Snow Leopard instantly recognizes it as a new device and sets up the tethering for you. No I don't live in the USA where AT&T runs the show, I live in Canada, where Rogers rips us off but at least I can tether.

Re:What is the point?

[RazorSharp]

How is it comparable if it lacks the multi-touch that makes the iPad so easy to use and the large screen which makes it such a good eBook reader? Not to mention developer support. . .

Re:What is the point?

[BitZtream]

I've used it in the bathroom before taking a shower with it steamed up, seemed to work, but no actual drops I don't think.

I've got one with a cracked screen ATM, I guess I could get it a little wetter with some droplets to see what happens after I replace it.

What kind of issues does it have? Wrong position of the touch, not detecting the touch, random phantom touchs with no actual input?

I guess my question is, could you expand on what the problem(s) is(are)? This so far seems to be my best solution for touch as I've yet to find a cost effective marine touch screen. My previous plan wouldn't be multitouch and would still require a fair amount of hacking on my part to make it survive fishing in the rain.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The display resolution of a digital television or display device is the number of distinct pixels in each dimension that can be displayed."

Like it or not, that's the definition. PPI/DPI/pixel density/etc refers to what you want, but resolution is raw pixels.

Re:What is the point?

[exomondo]

Failure to read your own link makes you look like an idiot:

The term “display resolution” is usually used to mean pixel dimensions (e.g., 1920×1200), which does not tell anything about the resolution of the display on which the image is actually formed. In digital measurement the display resolution would be given in pixels per inch.

Re:What is the point?

[AnotherShep]

Yes, that's exactly what I did, too, but I'm willing to put up with the warts.

I wouldn't say that it'll be "easier" to get it going, though. The linux "community" is way to ADD-addled to focus on polishing something for any length of time.

The warts must be removed if something is going to be even vaguely viable. People won't adapt to something new without a damn good reason, and even though us geeks think so, viruses are NOT enough of a concern to Joe Public.

Re:What is the point?

[Wayne247]

wondering how they lived without the thing they had no practical use for before they bought it.

So I've been eating my raw meet and crunching vegetables for some time when one day, Borgt brings a thing he calls "iFire" from his city to mine. He tells us iFire is like the sun but portable.

I told him to take it away, as I have no practical use for it. My vegetables are crunchy, and meat tastes good, what could I possibly benefit from fire?

Oh you mean, we can discover NEW USES after being put in contact with new applications of technology?

I guess all those sheeps will still buy iPads, right? Damn sheeps!

Disclosure: Ba-a-a-a-h.

Re:What is the point?

[lee1]

No, he's right, you're wrong. The ipad has a lower resolution than the iphone, and larger pixel dimensions. "Resolution" is a well understood concept that has been with us much longer than digital displays. The resolution of a camera lens, for example, is the number of lines/mm that it can resolve.

Re:What is the point?

[fractoid]

No, this is NEW because it's got 'i' in front of it and because Jobs just listed all its shortcomings as wonderful features. Hopefully not too many people will be suckered into buying one before the world realises that flipscreen tablet netbooks are far, far more practical and useful.

Re:What is the point?

[fractoid]

And I think this is the main point that a lot of people, including me, are missing about this. It's not meant to be a netbook. It's not meant to be an ebook reader. It's meant to be a big iPod Touch, and that's IT. I see this and I think "how cruddy, it's too big to pocket and it doesn't have a keyboard." Mr Silver sees it and thinks "how cruddy, it has no flash, no adblock and is a closed software platform." But the market they're aiming for are people who saw an iPod Touch and thought "wow that's awesome, I wish it were bigger so I could read news pages more easily." And that's who this device is for.

Re:What is the point?

[fractoid]

Why would you have two plans? He's talking about using the iPad's bluetooth tether setup to use your existing phone's data plan for wireless browsing. Now you have internets in your lap and cancer in your pocket, all on the one plan, yay!

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to see this picture, but with a scratched iPad in place of the netbook.

Finally, a reason for Mr. Goatse's years of stretching ...

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if it could work with a Bluetooth keyboard

There's a dockable keyboard.

More to the original point, yes, it does work with at least some Bluetooth keyboards.

Re:What is the point?

[shellbeach]

I have no computers that iTunes will run on, and of course, Apple encrypts communications to and from the device so no open-source software can connect to it either.

Yep, iTunes sucks big time. But it will work quite happily running in a VirtualBox virtual machine -- that's the only way I use my iPod Touch. And if you don't happen to have a copy of Windows to install, TinyXP might be something to search for ... :) You can share your music folder (or podcast folder in this case) with the virtual machine, so it's pretty straightforward.

What annoys me far more than dodgy iTunes, though, is the lack of available memory on the iPod Touch -- meaning that even jailbroken and with backgrounder, you can never get multi-tasking happening. That and those pathetic slidey-zoomy time-wasting transitions really drive me nuts. Oh, and the fact that despite being a powerful computer, it won't let me save a frikken playlist without iTunes holding its hand ...

Re:What is the point?

[shellbeach]

Having read books on my computer screen, the only advantage is that it scrolls relatively smoothly. Otherwise, my eyes felt like they'd been sucked out Gollumn-style after 4 hours of reading.

I know what you mean, but it's nicer reading on an iPod Touch than reading on a computer screen. And eInk isn't quite there for me -- the lack of contrast is just too sucky right now (dirty newsprint ... yuck!)

But the iPad isn't the answer, and eInk screens will surely keep improving. Actually, the iPad reminds me of Palm's Foleo, except that Palm finally saw sense and pulled the plug before the release date ...

Re:What is the point?

[pydev]

So why not buy any one of the netbooks, phones or tablets that have been around for years?

What makes you think I haven't? But their physical form factors, weights, and battery life aren't even close to this, mostly because they try to be powerful enough to run Windows.

And this isn't mainstream (it's only just been announced), and there is no way to know if it will be.

It's an Apple product; the Apple fanbase will buy it no matter what. And my hope is that it will encourage others to deliver cheaper and better devices based on Android and Chrome OS.

Re:What is the point?

[pydev]

very few people have ever tried to read an entire novel on a computer screen... its damn challenging

For "eyestrain" it doesn't make a difference whether you're reading code, the web, or a novel. And people spend many hours each day in front of computer screens, most of them without eyestrain.

Books and eInk, on the other hand, also cause eyestrain. It's not the backlighting, it's other factors.

lies...

I think your moronic commentary speaks for itself.

Re:What is the point?

[pydev]

Try reading one outside, or even on public transport or too near a window in your office.

I frequently do, on my cell phone and iPod. Maybe you have a bad LCD screen.

Pixel Qi and Nokia screens remain readable under any illumination, even if the backlight is overwhelmed.

Can you be a bit more specific as to why you hate eInk? It is pretty much the same as reading paper (since it is a matte display with ink on it)

Simple: it has slow refresh, low contrast, and bad/no color. Those problems are compounded by really bad user interfaces.

eInk also requires a separate backlight in low light.

Sure, the refresh rate is low, but not that much lower than my page turning or newspaper flipping speed.

A newspaper has 1-2 orders of magnitude as many pixels as an eInk display, so it's OK if flipping takes a little longer.

An eInk display is closer to a small paperback in size and resolution. I can flip through a small paperback in a few seconds. Try that with an eInk display.

Re:What is the point?

[VlartBlart]

I quote from the Apple site

"And because iPad has built-in Bluetooth wireless technology, it works with the Apple Wireless Keyboard, too."

http://www.apple.com/ipad/design/

Re:What is the point?

[pydev]

Can I read material without it? Yes. But I don't want to anymore. Remember, just because someone disagrees with you, it's not group think.

It is when they mod me down as a "Troll" for stating my preference.

I have a Kindle, and it's wonderful.

And I have several other eInk readers and tried the Kindle, and I think they all suck: slow refresh, low contrast, no color, bad user interface. I can't fathom why anybody would want to do that to themselves.

Re:What is the point?

[master_p]

Thank you, I did not know Archos. I am going to buy two, one for me and one for my wife. And it runs Linux!

Re:What is the point?

[Xest]

Hehe, I just read the quote from Apple from that article:

"...Right now, from our point of view, the products in there are principally based on hardware that's much less powerful than we think customers want, software technology that is not good, cramped keyboards, small displays. Et cetera. We don't think that people are going to be pleased with those type of products. But we'll see."

It's quite an ironic quote in the context of the iPad- the iPad is even less powerful than most netbooks, has a more limited OS than most netbooks, has an even more cramped keyboard that is also on-screen, and has an equally sized display.

So basically, what Apple are saying with the iPad is "We've taken all the negative traits we thought about netbooks, made them worse, added more, and doubled the price".

Re:What is the point?

[emm-tee]

The only way to listen to podcasts that aren't in the iTunes store is to sync the device with a desktop computer running the full-blown version of iTunes. The iPod Touch is a portable wifi-enabled computer in its own right, I shouldn't have to sync it with [..] anything just to get content onto it. I have no computers that iTunes will run on, and of course, Apple encrypts communications to and from the device so no open-source software can connect to it either.

You must have missed the requirements list when you bought it. It requires iTunes to work, that's the way it's designed to work.

The word "pod" has always meant something detachable, long before Apple existed. It's designed to detach from your main system so you can take part of your stuff with you. It's not meant to be a computer in it's own right. For most people this works better than having entirely separate devices because synchronisation is automatic and straightforward.. you're not duplicating the management effort.

Convenient and valuable? Feh, I say.

You ignored the requirements and bought the wrong product, I'm afraid.

Re:What is the point?

[Ma8thew]

No, it has a better resolution, but a worse pixel density. It's still got a pretty good density for its size though.

Re:What is the point?

[nick.cash]

Nah, "synergy" was a mid-90s buzz-word. Nobody buys synergy anymore.

We in the hipster computing community have moved onto newer buzz-words. What we want is a "cloud computing" turd*! And we'll settle for nothing less than that! Everything else you said was pretty much dead-on, though. I can't believe how many people are obsessing over this iPad even though it was a total let down, by nearly all expectations.

* Today, that is.. Tomorrow we'll pick up on some other meaningless marketing term and demand it whether it makes sense or not.

"And one more thing! With the iFece, your shit literally will not stink! It's the Apple-lovers dream!"

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course you can't do any of those things at the same time, since it can't multitask....

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

With no USB host! So you can't even plug a pen drive into this thing!

Man it sucks.

Re:What is the point?

[langelgjm]

slow refresh, low contrast, no color, bad user interface. I can't fathom why anybody would want to do that to themselves.

Most of those points are true, but they're also irrelevant for many people's reading needs. It takes at least 20 seconds to read a page, the contrast is really no worse than a newspaper, and 95% or more of my books are black and white. The user interface is a matter of opinion, but also mostly irrelevant, since it's mainly used to select the book and start reading.

I've written about this before - people's reading needs differ. If you need to quickly reference a lot of full color PDFs and annotate them, then no, the Kindle is not for you, and you would likely be better off with some kind of tablet computer.

But if you're like me and you tend to read straight text, with the occasional black and white diagram thrown in, for hundreds of pages on end, eInk kicks ass.

Re:What is the point?

[MistrBlank]

Uh, I think you misread, I think the GP is saying you can tether to your phone with a data plan over bluetooth.

Re:What is the point?

[MistrBlank]

Exactly, I don't know why they thought it succeeded at being better at any of those things.

Really though, we'll need the app writers to prove why the iPad is useful. That's the problem, they showed us a bunch of fun toys and didn't show us why we needed it over any of the less expensive devices.

Re:What is the point?

[Atryn]

You don't need bluetooth tethering for that. You just need to go for UMTS 3G, and provide a slot for a SIM card. I buy one from whichever provider I want, stick it in, and it just works, no tethering involved.

Why would needing to move hardware (even a SIM card) around be easier than wireless connectivity? Whether you are using Bluetooth or WiFi (such as a walking hotspot app on several smartphones, a MiFi, or other mobile WiFi personal access app/service) isn't no cables, no sim, always on, using your existing paid connection/account better than saying "well, as long as it supports x specific standard and I can insert hardware for it..."

WiFi and BT are standard enough and allow you to completely disassociate the iPad from the network/carrier issue.

Re:What is the point?

[Atryn]

...than my e-ink PRS-505

Just a side observation here but... WTF?

"Kindle", "iPad", "Nook" and you have a "PRS-505"... wow, is that selling well?

Having worked in the carrier industry, I've been amazed with the lack of creativity and marketing in naming of some devices. Even putting the technical improvements aside, should we be surprised when the "Touch Pro" outsells the "PPC-6800"?

I think this is one area Apple has done well with. Even with Blackberry adopting names like "Curve", "Pearl", etc. you somehow always still need to know its numeric identifier to find the right updates, support, talk to your carrier, etc... Simplicity is an advantage and marketing/branding certainly has a role to play in simplicity.

Re:What is the point?

[tehcyder]

the A7 is a decent enough media player, but other than that it's basically useless.

But presumably you bought it to play media, and if it's OK at that what's the problem? How would having 3G, multi-touch, GPS or an Accelerometer make it play music or video files any better?

Just curious.

Re:What is the point?

[LanMan04]

Apple has always released crippled products and insisted that they were superior.

Yeah, I really hate my substandard octo-core 2.8GHz Xeon Mac Pro with 18GB of memory. So crippled.

Re:What is the point?

[Atryn]

...than we think customers want...

So basically, what Apple are saying with the iPad is "We've taken all the negative traits we thought about netbooks, made them worse, added more, and doubled the price".

Clearly you don't understand Apple... What they are doing is changing what people want. ;)

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, this is like saying that while someone already invented fire, you have a new version of fire to sell that can only be used for cooking, not for heating your domicile. While it may cook a little bit better than the other, more generic fire, it can't be used to keep warm and therefore you are forced to keep two or more kinds of fire around if you want all your needs met.

Don't get me wrong, Apple has been doing great work, sells some great products, and the competition they provide is vital to the consumer electronics market. But to say this iPad is anything more than a toy and a reinvented iPod is fooling yourself.

Disclosure: my smartphone doesn't doesn't have a fart app installed on it.

Re:What is the point?

[Remus Shepherd]

Color display and the size of the screen are enough to validate the price. But again, the market will be the final arbitrator.

Re:What is the point?

[Just Some Guy]

Actually it has a WORSE resolution than the iPhone (132ppi Vs 163ppi), the screen is just bigger, but not as sharp.

Actually, it has a better resolution than the iPhone (1024x768 vs 480x320) but a larger dot pitch. Don't try to correct someone unless you're sure of the terms being used.

Re:What is the point?

[WinterSolstice]

It was actually one of the early e-ink devices (and not even a stunningly good example of one). Which was sort of my point...

I agree on the name, though. Sony has probably as bad a naming team as IBM or Apple.

You're dead on with the naming issues in the industry - it's especially bad at either edge. The ones composed entirely of numbers and a couple letters (video cards, for example) and the ones that are exceedingly word (like the MyTouch 3G) always annoy me.

I think the iPad is a pretty seriously poor name though. I get the whole concept of playing off the iPod (who doesn't?), but
1) Fujitsu already has a touchscreen device called that
2) Hasn't the 'i' thing been driven into the ground already?

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

web browsing: no flash, safari has the worst autocompletion ever seen, most of the websites doesn't scale to small screen OR will show you a terrible iphone optimized screen - for example every link from google to gamespot is broken on the iphone right now because gamespot redirects you to his own mobile version homepage ignoring the url you've followed.

book reading: no can do, backlight lcd are a terrible thing to look at for extended hours at close range focusing on tiny details, moreover the dpi is quite low

movie watching: too small for watching in two, will also have banding problem for 16:9 stuff.

but the worst of all is the ergonomicity of this device. how are you supposed to hold it while watching movies? on your lap? watching two hours downward is terrible for your neck. on front of you? it may be a featherweight but you cant hold it up for two hours. on a table? perhaps, but if you have a table available you probably have tons of more option for watching/reading/browsing.

so this is in the end a device which will need a dedicated bag, that needs to be always carried with the stand and the power chord, and while it's an amazing piece of technology I don't see people comfortably carrying it around for its intended usage. the additional bag space is not to be underestimated, its "uncool" effect may very well drive early adopter to be regretters.

Re:What is the point?

[pydev]

But if you're like me and you tend to read straight text,

Almost everybody reads lots of news, blogs, recipes, howto manuals, travel guides, photo albums, and tons of other materials for which browsing and page flipping are common.

LCD-based devices are vastly superior for everything other than linear text. And for linear text, it's really a toss-up: eInk has longer battery life, but LCD has better contrast, resolution, and supports better user interfaces.

Are you really going to carry around two different reading devices, deal with two contracts, two different UIs, and all that hassle? I'm not.

Re:What is the point?

[AvalancheBurn]

I don't understand your point. You can use iTunes for OSX or Windows and subscribe to the podcasts and than just synch them to your iPhone/iTouch. This seems to be the way to accomplish this with the least amount of problems.

Re:What is the point?

[intheshelter]

It has a keyboard, as you well know, it's a software keyboard. Your misrepresentation doesn't exactly buy you any credence if you're trying to make a point.

Re:What is the point?

[AvalancheBurn]

Isn't this just a big expensive iPod touch now?

Depends on how you spin it. I look at it as an eBook reader with an awesome web browser, GPS, WiFi, 3G, local storage, a MP3 player and access to the thousands of apps in the app store. Which, personally, is exactly what I've been waiting for to hit the market to handle my eBook and casual browsing needs. I'm sure I'm not alone here.

The problem though is the price. I am not sure if the price is worth the equipment since you can get a netbook for much cheeper that can do more. Though if they dropped the price to around $200 USD I would but one in the next couple of days.

Re:What is the point?

[Painted]

I disagree completely; after reading for ages about how eInk is the second coming of display technologies and is the answer to all things for all people, I expected it to be a very impressive technology.

Then we got a Sony PRS-505 here at work- it's ok, kinda blurry and washed out. It does* look fantastic under direct, from behind you sunlight, but in an office environment with flouros, it was distinctly 'meh.' After installing Stanza on my iPhone, and I have to say I found reading on it, apart from the small screen, to be as good if not superior to the Sony Reader.

I dunno- your milage may vary, but I'm pretty tired of hearing "LCD is garbage compared to eInk for reading!" It's not, it's really not bad, and eInk isn't actually all that.

Re:What is the point?

[Fulg]

What kind of issues does it have? Wrong position of the touch, not detecting the touch, random phantom touchs with no actual input?

Usually, if there's water on the touch screen, the touch input won't be responsive. You get missed inputs, or you can't drag the on-screen controls (because it thinks your multi-touching). I haven't seen phantom inputs. Wiping the water drops off the screen will take care of it... Maybe keeping a towel nearby is enough to deal with this.

You could probably simulate the problem by putting one or more drops of water on your iPhone screen, or by touching the screen with a wet finger. Controlled tests only, no need to use the phone in the shower :)

Re:What is the point?

[Fulg]

damn, I've been reading too much slashdot, I'm starting to write "your" when I mean "you're", grr!

Re:What is the point?

[Fulg]

Actually, I don't know why I didn't think of this before... It's possible that simply wrapping the iPad inside something like an InvisiSHIELD may be enough to weatherproof it for your uses, as it encloses the entire device.

Surely they will make a version for the iPad...

Re:What is the point?

[shutdown -p now]

Why would needing to move hardware (even a SIM card) around be easier than wireless connectivity?

Why would you need to move your SIM card? You just get as many as needed for your mobile account, and stick them into devices that you need 3G for. So it's just as much "always-on".

WiFi and BT are standard enough and allow you to completely disassociate the iPad from the network/carrier issue.

Well, I hear that some (many?) carriers in US aren't exactly happy about that whole tethering thing, so it would seem it's not that simple.

Re:What is the point?

[DragonWriter]

You're then defining resolution as number of pixels which is useless

Number of pixels is useful for somethings, dot pitch is useful for others. Both are important.

Otherwise, a 1x1 display would be better than a 1920x1080 screen, so long as the single pixel on the former was smaller than one pixel on the latter.

but when you compare the screen size as well you will see that an image will look sharper on the iPhone screen than the iPad screen.

If viewed from the same distance, sure. But I don't think that that represents typical usage: the way I see most people using smartphones like the iPhone is that they only hold it at arms length when using the dialer or some other big-button function, and hold it much closer for web browsing, texting, other work that requires seeing detail on the screen. That's not how I've usually seen people use tablets, or how I'd expect them to use the iPad.

Re:What is the point?

[Atryn]

some (many?) carriers

just to clarify... "few" might be a better phrase. Plenty of options here.

Re:What is the point?

[gknoy]

In contrast to your anecdote, I read the entire Honor Harrington series of books in my web browser, usually in the evenings in blocks of 3-4 hours. I felt noticeable eye fatigue. I'm currently reading some Warhammer 40k books at a similar pace, but in paperback form, and have felt none of those symptoms. Perhaps it's the nature of reading on an uninterrupted scrollable window, rather than having to turn (real or virtual) pages, perhaps its the nature of what I'm looking at. I don't know.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it has a better resolution than the iPhone (1024x768 vs 480x320) but a larger dot pitch. Don't try to correct someone unless you're sure of the terms being used.

From the article you linked:

Note that the use of the word "resolution" here is misleading. The term "display resolution" is usually used to mean pixel dimensions

It's an unfortunate accident of history that "resolution" came to mean "pixel dimensions," because the term was previously established to mean number of resolvable details in a specified distance or area. Pixel dimensions don't give you that information unless you have standard-sized displays, like the original Mac did. So the GP is correct, but due to "terminology creep" the meaning can be confusing - dot pitch is the reciprocal of resolution, i.e. lower dot pitch = higher resolution. The iPhone has better resolution in PPI, that's the point.

Re:What is the point?

[exomondo]

Why not just read the article you linked to? Not only have you managed to disprove your own argument with the link YOU posted but you have done exactly the same thing as a previous poster did with the exact same link. At least READ the article before linking to it.

Note that the use of the word resolution here is misleading. The term “display resolution” is usually used to mean pixel dimensions (e.g., 1920×1200), which does not tell anything about the resolution of the display on which the image is actually formed. In digital measurement the display resolution would be given in pixels per inch.

Re:What is the point?

[Just Some Guy]

Why not just read the article you linked to?

OK. The very first sentence reads:

The display resolution of a digital television or display device is the number of distinct pixels in each dimension that can be displayed.

When dealing with display screens, "resolution" almost always refers to "display resolution", or number of pixels in each dimension. In fact, in 30 years of working on computers, I've never seen "resolution" refer to anything else. Even Apple's spec sheet says "1024-by-768-pixel resolution at 132 pixels per inch (ppi)".

Dude, just admit that you called someone out incorrectly and move on. We all know you did, and arguing your point just makes you look silly.

Re:What is the point?

[masmullin]

It is different, you've obviously never tried to read a novel on a monitor.

Just try it before you bitch me out.

You see, when you read code/view blogs/web your eyes roam around the screen looking at various different things, your eyes must refocus or something. It must be because they jump around and you momentarily lose concentration.

When you read a novel your eyes do not refocus, they keep staring at the screen and only slowly move across.

I work on a computer writing code all day long. I can work like this for 8 hours before my eyes go "buggy"

However, when I need to read documentation from my technical specs (see http://www.3gpp2.org/Public_html/specs/C.S0005-E_v1.0_cdma200_1x_Layer_3-090925.pdf), my eyes get really tired after 15min. My coworker has printed that entire spec out and when I read that book, my eyes dont get tired.

Re:What is the point?

[exomondo]

Read the article you linked to and/or use some common sense. Number of pixels is NOT resolution, 30 years of experience and you don't know what you're talking about is pretty lame.

Resolution is number of pixels in a given area, hence to compare resolutions you need a COMMON size for that given area, which is one square inch. Number of pixels tells you nothing without the screen size and so comparing displays of different sizes with different amounts of pixels means you use that common term DPI (or PPI).

I hate to have to be Captain Obvious but seriously in 30 years you haven't figured that out? Resolution is measured in DPI because it's obvious that you cannot compare 2 displays of differing sizes and differing numbers of pixels otherwise.

Re:What is the point?

[crtreece]

Is that just a limitation of the i[Touch,Phone] version of iTunes? I use iTunes on XP and OSX, and they both autmatically download podcasts from sites other than iTunes. Either click on the podcast link, or go to Advanced > subcribe to podcast and paste in a URL.

Re:What is the point?

[Z8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution

I think it's pretty clear what "resolution" means when applied to pixelated displays.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

> I think it's pretty clear what "resolution" means when applied to pixelated displays.

It only came to be misapplied that way, because increasing the resolution on the same size display (say, a 17-inch MultiScan) meant you got MORE PIXELS. No matter that your resolution would actually drop again when you upgraded to a 19".

They should have just used a new term, because this stupid mistake has been bugging us engineers for 30 years!

Re:What is the point?

[pydev]

It is different, you've obviously never tried to read a novel on a monitor.

I've read dozens of novels on LCDs. It's fine.

my eyes get really tired after 15min

That may just be psychosomatic or postural.

I mean, which property of the LCD screen do you think makes you "tired"? It's all just light and darkness from a flat surface. The LCD has higher contrast, but if you don't like that, just lower it.

Re:What is the point?

[sshock]

Yeah, but we're talking about digital displays not camera lenses. The term resolution has always been used to mean pixel dimensions.

Re:What is the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

> The term resolution has always been used to mean pixel dimensions.

No, it hasn't - that's a fairly recent usage.

Early on in computing, "high-resolution display" meant "more pixels per distance/area unit," not merely "more pixels."

Doesn't Create a Need

[Bryan Gividen]

This entire presentation seems a little disappointing. Really, it looks, acts, and feels like a giant iPod Touch. Whereas the iPhone and iPod really created a need , I don't see that this substantially innovate to make it a must-have. It doesn't seem to improve on anything so substantially that it is an obvious choice. Maybe I need to see a few more videos, but I don't see this pulling serious market share away from Kindle's targeted market segment.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[fiannaFailMan]

This entire presentation seems a little disappointing. Really, it looks, acts, and feels like a giant iPod Touch. Whereas the iPhone and iPod really created a need , I don't see that this substantially innovate to make it a must-have. It doesn't seem to improve on anything so substantially that it is an obvious choice. Maybe I need to see a few more videos, but I don't see this pulling serious market share away from Kindle's targeted market segment.

Yes, quite.

Last time I saw a /. commenter speculating about the future of Apple's latest new thing, it read something like this:

Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...

Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port ...

Raise your hand if you have both ...

Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device ...

There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.

~LoudMusic

I prefer to take the 'wait and see' approach.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[ShadowRangerRIT]

Given that the Kindle's target market is book readers, I don't think tablets like this will have much effect. It's more of a laptop replacement than a book reader; eInk is way more readable, and requires charging far less often. Yes, multiple single-purpose devices can get bulky, but then, I was already carrying around my books anyway. If I wanted a laptop, I'd look at the iPad as an alternative (just like I'd look at a netbook), but if I want to read books and newspapers, I'll stick with paper or eInk.

I'm not saying it will fail, I'm saying it will take market share from laptops far more than eBook readers.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[flabordec]

The last time you saw a comment in /. speculating about the future of Apple's latest new thing was with the release of the iPod? You don't visit very often.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[eln]

Agreed, but Apple is not the first to try and sell a tablet device. Many other companies have failed at this, and I'm not at all convinced that the tablet form factor can be a winner for anyone. Having said that, Apple has shown they can make a shit-ton of money selling stuff lots of people have failed at before.

However, it's still fair to note that in the eyes of many of us, their big reveal failed to show us why we would want this device. The iPhone reveal convinced me I wanted one pretty much immediately, but this one didn't excite me at all. Sure, the really rabid Apple fanboys will probably get one, but the road to this thing becoming a huge trend like the iPod or the iPhone were is difficult to see. I don't understand why someone who already owns both a smartphone and a laptop (much of their target market) would want a device that seems to be a poor substitute for either. Maybe Apple will prove me wrong, it wouldn't be the first time...but I don't see how at this stage.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Professor_UNIX]

This product reminds me of the Macbook Air. That was another one of their products that was created to fill some apparent missing niche between smartphones, PDAs, and full blown laptops and where has that got them? It is essentially worthless and priced MORE than a full blown Macbook or 13" Macbook Pro.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[fermion]

It provides the potential of watching movies, reading, etc on a very convenient platform. What it does not do it run Flash or Silver-light. This means that unless Apple is going to open up a streaming service that is as convenient and comprehensive as Hulu or Netflix, it is only about 1/2 of the machine it could be. Not disrespect, but Youtube has almost nothing on it I find compelling enough to own any machine.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[MBGMorden]

I think this may be a shot across the bough of netbooks rather than smartphones or laptops.

I've got an iPod Touch already. I love the thing. It travels with me everywhere. I can go online, do just about anything I need, etc. I even have Kindle for iPhone installed on it, though the small screen has kept me from reading much on it.

I also have a laptop. It's great for taking on the road so I have a computer in my hotel room, but in reality if I go into a coffee shop or other wifi hotspot, the laptop is just too damned bulky for me.

Recently I had thought about getting a netbook. Not to replace either of those devices, but to complement them. I'd have it for those times when I want a screen bigger than my iPod can handle, but when I want a smaller device than my laptop. Truthfully, having seen this, I'm now thinking about it a bit more seriously than the netbook. The question though, is cost. If it's priced like a netbook, then I see the beginnings of a beautiful relationship. If it's priced like Apple's laptops, then no thanks - I like this product more but not enough to spend several hundred extra dollars on it.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[arkhan_jg]

On the other hand, witness the stunning universal success and popularity of the macbook air.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[noidentity]

There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.

~LoudMusic

And that, my friends, is why the Post Anonymously checkbox exists.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[arose]

So how many firewire only iPods have they sold for $400?

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[TheRaven64]

And it was a pretty accurate summary. The first generation iPod was a niche product and didn't sell particularly well. The second generation added USB support and Windows syncing (via MusicMatch at first, which was a terrible piece of software, then by a crappy port of iTunes, and eventually via a less-bad port of iTunes) and it sold well. Oh, and the price was dropped by about 50% too.

The iPad looks like a well-engineered device, but it's aimed squarely at a market that doesn't contain me. I can think of a few people that I know who might be in the target market, but not many. Presumably Apple has done a bit more market research than me, but if they haven't, then it wouldn't be the first time they've launched a product aimed at a market made entirely of Steve Jobs and two of his friends...

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[quadelirus]

I want this far more than I want a Kindle. I would love to take my research PDFs on the road with me on a large device with office products built in (not to mention all the other media I use). I tend to carry my ipod touch around as a reading/media device but a larger screen will be MUCH better for 90% of the things I do with it, and the size will make it a lot more portable than even my 13" macbook pro which I prefer to only take with me when I actually need the horsepower.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[godawful]

Having watched the updates I too was left wondering "What's the killer app?".. The book reader portion does look nice to me, and it'd be nice to browse the web casually on this rather than my iphone.. but I don't know that I need it _that_ badly.

However, I do have the feeling that the version 2 of the iPad (blech, what a name) will be much more appealing.

Finally, seeing the iWork demo kind of gives you an idea of what app developers are going to be able to do with this and _that_ is what I think will make or break this. Someone out there is going to have a brilliant idea for an app for this and that's when I'll be shelling out the money. Cos right now paying 500 to 900 to not be able to multitask seems like a deal breaker to me.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this may be a shot across the bow of netbooks

It's a naval term - you shoot in front of a ship as a warning to stop/change course, the implication being that the next shot won't miss. A shot across the bough would merely leaf you defenceless...

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[dougman]

You're right - it doesn't create a need. I fills a need.

My wife and kids spend 95% of their time on our laptop surfing the web, watching movies, emailing, etc. While our PowerBook is tiny compared to the laptops of the mid-90's, they are still relatively big and get very warm on your lap. Batteries seem to need charging on a regular basis. A PowerBook costs a lot. I can see this being a device that each member of the family could have (and I could afford). While not everything Apple touches turns to gold (Apple TV comes to mind), I believe this will be a winner.

There's going to be some amazing apps for this. I would love one in the kitchen. A laptop takes up counter space. This thing can sit in the cookbook holder as geek cooks have imagined for years. Play some music, pull up your recipe, can be a slideshow picture frame when not in use... You know there will be some great accessories for this. I predict a picture frame dock that hangs on the wall. It can recharge and show photos in style.

With regards to the Kindle... would you really take a grayscale eBook reader with a text browser (yay Lynx!) for $489 or an iPad with HD resolution, Safari, email, iphoto, itunes, 140K apps, etc., etc., for $499? The Kindle is marginally smaller and may have one or two very minor benefits for book readers, but c'mon... really?

If the iPad delivers on performance/battery life, this is a winner.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[jollyreaper]

This entire presentation seems a little disappointing. Really, it looks, acts, and feels like a giant iPod Touch. Whereas the iPhone and iPod really created a need , I don't see that this substantially innovate to make it a must-have. It doesn't seem to improve on anything so substantially that it is an obvious choice. Maybe I need to see a few more videos, but I don't see this pulling serious market share away from Kindle's targeted market segment.

Yes, quite.

Last time I saw a /. commenter speculating about the future of Apple's latest new thing, it read something like this:

Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...

Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port ...

Raise your hand if you have both ...

Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device ...

There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.

~LoudMusic

I prefer to take the 'wait and see' approach.

Nothing could live up to this hype.

I never played around with iphones when they came out. Got a touch because I was told it makes for a good ebook reader. Bought it with little more to go on than that. Therefore I'm pleasantly amazed at how neat of a gadget it is. If I spent two years reading up about how it will make my old palm pilot look like banging two rocks together I probably would have been a lot less impressed.

Personally, what I wanted to see was an ultra-thin hybrid. The same sort of instant-on and always-available you get with the iphone and touch coupled with the larger screen, bigger battery, more ram, and a keyboard. I would have wanted to see something that folded shut as thin as the Air and you could then rotate the screen around and close it with the keyboard now providing the back of the device.

What's the difference between that and a PC tablet? Same difference between the iphone and windows mobile. Mobile has too much shit running and is trying to be a desktop OS in a phone. The iphone OS was a rethinking and redesign of what a phone OS should be and is thus very friendly to use, not resource intensive and none of the legacy issues of a desktop or laptop OS. We've seen people dicking around with netbook-optimized OS's but haven't seen anything trend-setting hit the market.

What I was hoping we'd see is something that seems as far beyond the current generation of laptops as the current generation is from 90's laptops. My first laptop experience was with 95, shitty dual-scan screen, underpowered and embarrassing. Couldn't even get out of its own way. Modern laptops kick so much ass compared to that but the hardware requirements are a bit insane when you stop and think for a moment. W7 wants 2 gigs just to run at a decent clip?! No, maybe a laptop doesn't need a full-featured desktop OS, or at least not every laptop should have it.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Wraithlyn]

Yes, it is "just" a larger iPhone.

But multi-touch on a larger screen genuinely opens up new interface possibilities not possible on an iPhone form factor. Instead of just multiple fingers at once, think multiple hands, even multiple people. The true value of this will only become apparent in time as new apps are developed to take advantage of the larger screen real estate.

I seriously don't get all the hate and cynicism already pouring out over this. What exactly were people expecting?

Perhaps it is just backlash caused by the hype... but you can't really blame Apple for the hype, they didn't breathe a word about it. They're in a weird position where everyone creates these crazy expectations for them.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Darth Snowshoe]

Take a look at what all the red-shirts are carrying around onboard the Enterprise in Star Trek (any version). It's essentially some flavor of this device - this form factor, these kinds of features. Why is it you're willing to accept it (without even thinking about it) in your science fiction, but can't imagine anyone possibly wanting one in real life?

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[prockcore]

I think this may be a shot across the bough of netbooks rather than smartphones or laptops.

My wife's netbook is half the price of the cheapest iPad, and it can play Hulu and Netflix Instant View.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[0100010001010011]

I would buy this for my mother.

She wants a 'computer.' All she does is browse the internet and update her facebook. I'm looking at a MacMini Refurb. But I honestly think that that may be a bit too much.

I could get this, toss in the Dock and I know she's set. No tech support needed. If she wants to watch stuff on the couch, she can take it to the couch. I imagine there will be an App soon for everything here. I've seen her pick up her sister's iPhone and use it with 0 learning curve. This is the woman that freaked out when she hit Expose on my brother's laptop and then set it down and wouldn't listen to us explaining how things worked. (She keeps telling Me that she wants 'Computer Lessons' but then refuses to be instructed because its "too difficult").

This would be perfect for her.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[soupd]

I got my Macbook Air a few months ago and, unlike any other laptop I've had before, I take it everywhere. You know why? Because it's no bother to keep it my my backpack all the time and that's kind of the point.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't see this working as a netbook replacement for taking with you to the coffee shop - the form factor pretty much means you can never use it hands free, with a netbook you can place it on the table, position the screen to suit the ambient lighting, tap away at the keys and hold a coffee cup. With this you'll need one hand to hold it, and you'd better have the stamina to hold it at the best lighting angle for a decent amount of time, the other to tap away at an on-screen keyboard, that leaves no hands for your latte, to place it flat on the table while you juggle things around it's going to have a bigger footprint than a netbook... unless people are going to buy these to browse from the couch in any great numbers I just cannot see the point.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Zerth]

If I wanted a bookreader, I'd rather have a $250 device that did grayscale, had free cell service, and ran for days than a $500 one that did color, cost $30/month if you want to leave the kitchen, and ran for hours.

I'd put the other $250 on a netbook with better specs.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[emt377]

I could easily see myself having one of these in a stand on my night table as a fancy alarm clock. I like to go make coffee and breakfast, then bring it back to bed with a laptop - to check the news, mail, ical (to see what meetings I have), and so forth. Nothing I really need a whole laptop for. The iPhone can do the same but is a bit small... I need glasses to read text on it.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[vlm]

All she does is browse the internet and update her facebook.

I've seen her pick up her sister's iPhone and use it with 0 learning curve.

Ipod touch with the free facebook app?

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this may be a shot across the bough of netbooks rather than smartphones or laptops.

you've gotta be careful with those tree-shots, you could kill a squirrel

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[UnknowingFool]

According to wikipedia, about 250,000 units. While that is nothing compared to current iPod numbers, it probably was a good share of the market at the time.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Sancho]

What laptops are you comparing it to?

Because the thing is, Apple has other notebooks that are the same sizes, only a little bit thicker, and are generally more capable. That's the issue. Is the extra 1.5 pounds really that big a deal?

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[gilgongo]

I prefer to take the 'wait and see' approach.

Very wise. However, consider this: the iPhone and the iPod had games to change. That is, before the iPod, if you'd asked Joe Sixpack what an MP3 player was for, he'd have given you a simple answer as to what the "game" was there: playing music, on your own, donwloading stuff onto it. Simple. Same with the iPhone: what's a smartphone for? Making calls, reading the manual about other "features" that you hardly ever use. All very well established games. All a bit geeky and rather boring to Joe Sixpack. Sales (at least of MP£ players) bore his out. Then boof! Apple changed all their with their magic Apple magic.

The same is NOT true of iPad. Joe sixpack (and everyone else for that matter) has no idea what the game is with a "tablet." Is it a laptop? Is it for movies? Games? What?

No game to change = no revolution. The iPad will be like Apple TV: a nice idea, it just won't go anywhere (or somebody else will get there instead).

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[fiannaFailMan]

Presumably Apple has done a bit more market research than me,

You know what? I would presume that too.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[soupd]

Mac-wise I've had a PowerBook G4 (12"), MacBook and MacBook Pro 15" and yeah, when you carry a laptop everywhere (and a lot of work crap too), you have no idea how much difference a fraction of an inch and a pound of weight makes when your laptop is with you from 7am when you leave the house til whatever time it is you crawl home.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Mr. Flibble]

Given that the Kindle's target market is book readers, I don't think tablets like this will have much effect. It's more of a laptop replacement than a book reader; eInk is way more readable, and requires charging far less often. Yes, multiple single-purpose devices can get bulky, but then, I was already carrying around my books anyway. If I wanted a laptop, I'd look at the iPad as an alternative (just like I'd look at a netbook), but if I want to read books and newspapers, I'll stick with paper or eInk.

I'm not saying it will fail, I'm saying it will take market share from laptops far more than eBook readers.

I am not so sure about this. I see eBook readers often on the plane. I remember going around with an MP3 Player, Cell phone and Palm pilot, and wishing that these things could all be combined into one device. I disliked carrying multiple devices. On many levels, my Palm Pilot was better than a iPhone for business tasks - but the iPhone integrates all those 3 features well so I don't have to carry all 3 devices (I actually use a work supplied blackberry curve, but I digress).

The iPad removes the need for a kindle+netbook+itouch, just like the iphone eliminated the need for carrying 3 devices, in a similar way, this combines features in the niche. It does not remove the laptop requirement. As an ebook reader it is "good enough" for most people. And that is all that most non-geeks want. They just care that it looks cool so they can be seen with the device and not look geeky. That the interface of the device is dead-simple to use, so they don't have to spend time trying to learn it (that is what geeks like to do).

The iPad is not the best at the things that it does - the iPhone is not the best at the things that it does - they are all just "good enough" but at the same time just easy enough to use. And that is the secret that Apple is REALLY offering with these devices - "easy enough to use".

This is why Commander Taco's infamous "no wireless, less space than a nomad, lame" comment is funny. The iPod took off mainly because it was the easiest MP3 player to use for most people. The secret weapon is the ease of use.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[amicusNYCL]

I want this far more than I want a Kindle.

I tend to carry my ipod touch around

the size will make it a lot more portable than even my 13" macbook pro

Well, if you've already got at least one iPod flavor, and at least Macbook flavor, then you're Apple's target audience. Of course, for the past several years you could have been carrying around a notebook smaller and lighter than your Macbook, but significantly larger than your iPod, and it would have included a keyboard, speakers, webcam, etc, with whatever office products you wanted installed. You could have had that for $600 two years ago, but I can understand how you would have passed on that since it didn't have an Apple logo on it. So this product sounds just about perfect for you, and I'm sure Apple is happy to have you as a customer.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife's netbook is half the price of the cheapest iPad, and it can play Hulu and Netflix Instant View.

And, I am guessing, USB ports, a card reader, Ethernet jack, video out, upgradeable RAM, an x86 processor, a keyboard, a touchpad, upgradeable storage space, a webcam, a microphone...

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[93 Escort Wagon]

Agreed, but Apple is not the first to try and sell a tablet device. Many other companies have failed at this, and I'm not at all convinced that the tablet form factor can be a winner for anyone. Having said that, Apple has shown they can make a shit-ton of money selling stuff lots of people have failed at before.

You may very well be right, and only time will tell. But in my opinion (for whatever that's worth), part of the problem with past tablets has been the OS. Not because they've been Windows-based per se, but because Microsoft has been so adamant about forcing the same visual paradigm ("it must be visually recognizable as Windows") across all versions of its OS family.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[bobstreo]

What I am now waiting for:

7-10 inch touchscreen

wifi/Bluetooth

IR and RF (LOL Logitech) for controlling my home theater and home automation.

Linux/Android...

microsd support up to 128GB.

It would be nice if I could roll it up/fold it up and put it in my pocket.

Maybe a nice HDMI out with 1080P support.

Under $300 (USD).

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I bought a kindle for my wife I read stuff on it and I don't agree that e-Ink is more greatly more readable. I would rather have a back lit display especially for reading in bed. I think e-Ink is over hyped. It's monochrome and slow.

e-Inks real advantage is battery life. You are reading this and all of Slashdot and other sites on a back lit LCD probably and that works out great. I know I spend many hours a day reading on a computer screen and it works fine. So I think that aspect of eInk is overplayed a bit.

Personally I would rather have this iPad 10 inch display rather than the Kindle DX display. They are similar in price but the iPad does so much more with video, iPhoto, audio, web browsing, email, sweet looking organizer, and here's the big part. It's Apple so it will all work really slick and be really well integrated far more so than my 12" Asus netbook. I am still keeping the netbook too though.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Stray7Xi]

The iPad removes the need for a kindle+netbook+itouch, just like the iphone eliminated the need for carrying 3 devices, in a similar way, this combines features in the niche. It does not remove the laptop requirement. As an ebook reader it is "good enough" for most people. And that is all that most non-geeks want.

It will meet the requirement of an ebook reader without being a good ebook reader. What I mean, is it will be "good enough" that the consumers won't want to buy an ebook reader. But it won't be a good enough ereader that people actually use it to read books. It's the wrong type of display.

It will be a good enough netbook as long as you don't want to type anything lengthy. I certainly wouldn't want to ssh home with it.

My opinion is it lends itself best to streaming video. This is a device I can be watching TV and take it with me into the bathroom while I take a shit. That is the killer app for the ipad. Unfortunately no flash will limit this at launch but I expect there will be good sources for video before long. The standalone unlocked 3g dataplan offered is also awesome.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[bar-agent]

It should be fine. All you need is a way to set it at an angle. Apple sells a case that holds it at, I guess, a 30 or 60 angle from the table. There will be other products that are more adjustable.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget to add "a macintosh" the original iPod was not PC compatible.

And it didn't sell well, and was kinda shitty.

Apple just advertised the hell out of it, and eventually released a PC compatible version, you know, so 95% of people could use it.

Apple products start out shitty and get better. The first iPod was shitty, the first iPod was shitty, the first iMac was shitty, the first Apple PC was shitty, OS9 was shitty, etc. The deal with Apple is to wait for version 2 or 3. They release things early for wow, fanboys buy, then they release a non-shitty version a year later, normal people buy, fanboys buy again, etc.

Its brilliant marketing.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[cgenman]

Have you used an iPhone? I find myself Kindle-ing on the iPhone a lot, and wonder if a real eInk reader is better enough to warrant another device.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[quadelirus]

Yeah, I have looked at netbooks (I actually probably won't buy an iPad b/c it costs money which I don't got). The problem with netbooks is that it isn't really different than a laptop except for portability. The screens are generally too small (although this might have changed, correct me if it has). Netbooks are just slow, small, portable laptops which don't have any features that my laptop doesn't have (aside from added portability). What I really want is something different and the iPad *MIGHT* be such a device. The touch screen is definitely very tempting, especially for things like reading and image editing.

Another thing about netbooks is that they run apps that were designed with larger screens in mind. They really just don't have the right feel.

At this point though, its mostly opinion.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[quadelirus]

Oh, an owning two apple devices does not constitute a fanboy. I also run a dell with Windows 7.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[VShael]

They started bundling iTunes with Quicktime, thus widening their potential market.
They made the iPod USB compatible, thus widening their potential market.
They dropped the price way down from $400 thus widening their potential market.

LoudMusic's comment was perfectly valid at the time. Apple reacted.

Many of the complaints about the iPad are equally valid. We'll see what happens to it, but it's not going to ignite the world tomorrow.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Quantumstate]

Of course at the time that was a perfectly sensible comment. Apple actually changed their iPod so now you can use it with usb, iTunes is available on Windows and you can get an iPod for significantly less than $400.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Anonymous Coward]

You're supposed to be shooting at boats, not trees.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[MistrBlank]

I'm calling BS. The only ones I've seen that can do that aren't installed with intel boards and cost in the ballpark of $400-500.

Hell, there aren't even netbooks out there that are "half the price of the cheapest iPad" because the market ballooned to the over $300 range with most netbooks costing $350-400. Anything at the low end is clearance for the next model.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[MistrBlank]

Oh, and lets not forget that this thing costs less than an unlocked iPhone.

If I could buy a replacement iPhone for $500 I wouldn't fear every day about dropping accidentally or having it sprout legs.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[dfghjk]

And all those observations were valid. Apple addressed a lot of those limitations with follow-on products or perhaps it would have failed.

Perhaps what you mean by "wait and see" is to see if Apple fixes the iPad to be what people want.

Re:Doesn't Create a Need

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, quite.

Last time I saw a /. commenter speculating about the future of Apple's latest new thing, it read something like this:

I prefer to take the 'wait and see' approach.

Personally, I will continue to throw it under the bus, just as I would have an iPod in that state.

Call me when they do something as mainstream as Firewire->USB and 80% of the market starts using iTunes.

The Chinese

[Anonymous Coward]

Chinese junk for uneducated American consumers.

iTouch on steroids

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a glorified iTouch (not iPhone - there's no phone in it at all unless you count Skype.)

Re:iTouch on steroids

[ickleberry]

Apple don't make any device called the iTouch. I'm no fanboy but I still can't understand why people insist on calling it the "iTouch" when there are plenty of other things with that name - its just about the least original name going in the tech world

I never herd of people talking about the iMini or the iNano or iClassic but for some reason iTouch seems to be used a lot Now where did I put that 8P8C connector?

Re:iTouch on steroids

[quadelirus]

I think people generally refer to their iPod Nanos as iPods (not iPod Nanos). iPod Nanos aren't significantly different than other iPods. iTouch differentiates between the iPod Touch and other iPods which makes sense because it really is a different class of device--there really isn't a need to verbally differentiate between iPod 120GB and iPod Nano--it's simply your apple music player, or iPod. That's why I think most people use iTouch (and b/c iPod Touch is too many syllables to use every time you want to talk about your device).

Re:iTouch on steroids

[WiiVault]

You nailed it. It's kinda silly some people can't see that as obvious. The Touch is really an iPod in name only (and lack of comm features).

Taking Jobs at his word

[DoofusOfDeath]

"Way better than a laptop, way better then a phone."

So Apple is basically saying that we should stop buying MacBooks and iPhones?

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he's trying to be like Nintendo, they announce some useless Wii accessory and people come in droves to buy it.

How they expect me to believe this is an adequate gaming machine is beyond me. If they showcase Crysis running smoothly on that iPad, they might have a case; NFS means jack.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[nine-times]

I know you're joking, but it makes more sense in context. He's saying that there's no point in creating a new class of devices unless it actually does something better than the existing classes of devices. So if the iPad doesn't do *something* better than both the iPhone and MacBook, then they wouldn't be releasing it as a product. That doesn't mean that Macbooks and iPhones won't continue to do other things better.

So their hope is that the iPad will be better for reading ebooks (for example) than either the iPhone of MacBook, but the MacBook may still be better for general computing and the iPhone will be better at being a cell phone.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[Archangel Michael]

Phone suck for "reading" and movies ... Laptops mostly overload for reading and movies. There is other potential market places for this like perhaps a new class of games or games that already exist on iPhone that would like more screen.

I don't know the pricing on these things, but imagine if you bought one, and it came with two ebooks and a movie download from iTunes. I would rather have something like this on a long flight than having to flip open my notebook just to watch a movie, and when I was done, switch to the latest book i am reading.

This is what iTouch should have been.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[jellomizer]

Because I want an oversized phone and a slow limited laptop.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[quadelirus]

"How they expect me to believe this is an adequate gaming machine is beyond me."

Because good gaming isn't all about graphics (for an extreme case, look at D&D). Sorry, but your statement is just silly.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[Loco3KGT]

Serious question - does it do phone calls? I saw microphone and speaker listed as features, but I saw nothing about voice calls.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I can see this working (for me) is the use of reading. Be it comics or online books (Safari online / Books 24x7).

If iPhone apps work on it, all the better. If I need to do serious typing then I will just use my computer.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[proslack]

Which would be paraphrased as "Less screen space than a laptop and much bulkier than a phone." A phone for trolls or a laptop for dwarves...in other words, a device with great sales potential in Middle Earth.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[gnasher719]

So Apple is basically saying that we should stop buying MacBooks and iPhones?

No. Apple is saying we should stop buying netbooks. And laptops running Windows. But mostly netbooks.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word

[MistrBlank]

The context of that statement was the list of capabilities that it needs to be good at.

The iPad will not replace a laptop which has fully feature command line environment, fully flexible software environment, productivity, etc. And it will not replace a device designed to fit in your pocket, plays music well (interestingly plays video only moderately well) and receives phone calls.

No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Mindjiver]

How can you claim to be making a mobile device if it does not have mobile broadband? This thing yearning for a mobile internet connection so bad. The only reason that I can think of is that Steve is waiting to deploy this on Verizon's coming LTE network.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[ceoyoyo]

You can tether it if you want. Or just download stuff to it that you want before you go. It's not really a problem.

Putting cell connectivity in this thing would be the kiss of death. Who wants to pay for ANOTHER cell contract?

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

They will wait until next year to show the new iPad 2.0 with innovative 3g capability.

Apple is always innovating.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Mindjiver]

If you need another device to make it mobile it is not really a mobile device is it? Anyhow, how do I tether it? Do I need to buy this AND a iPhone?

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[mdm-adph]

Just buy a Verizon mifi and tape the fucking thing to the back, jesus christ. It's big enough.

Problem solved.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[arcite]

wifi is in Starbucks, Mcdonolds, bars & cafes, and all other cool places where people will hang out with these things.

Universities and colleges all have strong wifi coverage

wait for Rev. B!

Apple will sell millions.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[CannonballHead]

Do I need to buy this AND a iPhone?

Apple thinks you are on to something there.

And you have a really low UID. I am sure you hear that a lot.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[R3d M3rcury]

Really? You mean I can carry around an iPad and a laptop?! Ooh! Where do I sign up?!?

That said, there are other ways besides carrying around a computer.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[ceoyoyo]

Mobile does not mean connects to a cellular network. That association is a very recent affliction.

It's got bluetooth. It should tether with anything.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[UnknowingFool]

How can you claim to be making a mobile device if it does not have mobile broadband? This thing yearning for a mobile internet connection so bad. The only reason that I can think of is that Steve is waiting to deploy this on Verizon's coming LTE network.

For the same reason that Apple never comments on new products. Apple never said it was a mobile device. It was all the rampant speculation on the internet that said it would come with 3G and use AT&T/Verizon (varies with rumor site).

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[ceoyoyo]

Laptop? How about a phone?

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[tepples]

Do I need to buy this AND a iPhone?

No, you need to buy this and a phone not locked to a network that hates tethering.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

Mobile does not mean connects to a cellular network. That association is a very recent affliction.

It's got bluetooth. It should tether with anything.

Well, Steve is comparing Apple to Nokia for a reason isnt he?

The Internet is moving from a network that connects PCs to a network that connects things. I thought that Apple had recognized this and was launching a product that create a new market that would utilize this, but I was wrong. Even the Kindle can download from a mobile connection (EVDO IIRC) but this can't.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[slimjim8094]

they do have 3g. just announced

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[CSHARP123]

They are going to have 3G with this

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, buy an iPhone and tether it.... oops my bad. They don't allow that here. Try again.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

Does AT&T allow tethering with the iPhone in the US? I thought they still didn't.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[mdm-adph]

Eh -- looks like it might have built-in cellular, anyway. ;)

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Mindjiver]

How can you claim to be making a mobile device if it does not have mobile broadband? This thing yearning for a mobile internet connection so bad. The only reason that I can think of is that Steve is waiting to deploy this on Verizon's coming LTE network.

Now it came! :)

It will be using AT&T's WCDMA/HSPA network. Good stuff!

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Professor_UNIX]

You're just impatient and didn't wait for the thing to finish. It supports 3G with AT&T... $30/month unlimited, no contract, fully unlocked. If this thing supports VOIP via 3G I could ditch my iPhone. :-/

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[MarcoAtWork]

no camera, no microphone, I don't see you ditching your iphone any time soon... or at least they haven't shown either up to now

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Lumpy]

I do.

I carry around my 17" laptop AND a 13" tablet. In meetings I use the tablet, plus I can do easy markup of a customers blueprints with them looking on and making their own notes directly to the screen, then email off a copy to them and the engineer.

I tend to steal a lot of contracts from the dweebs that only carry around a tiny light laptop.

it's all about putting productivity over whining about carrying a little more weight around.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[jo_ham]

Yes, at the moment the US is backwards - since you can actually tether with the iPhone in many other places, including the UK. Actually pretty handy if you already have a 3G phone, especially if it is the traditional Apple way - slide a checkbox on your phone to say "tether", click a box in the iPad to say "tether" and that's all you need (obviously pair them via bluetooth).

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Tumbleweed]

no camera, no microphone, I don't see you ditching your iphone any time soon... or at least they haven't shown either up to now

Bluetooth headset eliminates the need for a microphone, so you could skype, I suppose.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[0100010001010011]

The deal with AT&T is the biggest news. Holy hell that's fucking awesome.

$15 for 250MB
$30 for UNLIMITED DATA.
No contract.

I bet you just have to activate it on a iPad, then put it in any phone that will handle GSM and use VOIP for unlimited data and minutes for $30 a month.

AT&T will try and lock it but I imagine that we can get around that rather quickly. I'd consider going back to AT&T for that price.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[hrimhari]

You can buy the version that includes 3G if you want. $120 more.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

they do have 3g. just announced

lol 3g, what is this? Kindergarten?
I usually move around 100g a week and thats nothing!

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[tirerim]

Yeah, and it will only cost an extra $30/month compared to the built-in 3G!

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[mr100percent]

It has a built-in microphone, although it wasn't mentioned in the keynote

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[AlXtreme]

In meetings I use the tablet, plus I can do easy markup of a customers blueprints with them looking on and making their own notes directly to the screen, then email off a copy to them and the engineer.

Collaboration seems like a sweet-spot for larger tablet devices, and although the iPad seems on the small side for this purpose the hardware is slick for the price. Tablet/laptop hybrids are insanely expensive.

Here's hoping that the iPad results in cheap 13"-15" hybrid-alternatives, this would be ideal for collaborative UI design and modeling software with a team.

For the time being, good old-fashioned paper & whiteboards will do though.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[tyrione]

no camera, no microphone, I don't see you ditching your iphone any time soon... or at least they haven't shown either up to now

Bluetooth headset eliminates the need for a microphone, so you could skype, I suppose.

This site continues to show, like the parent you responded to how come they never see the storm behind Apple that is a Cash Cow. 3rd party opportunities for customization is high.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Tumbleweed]

This site continues to show, like the parent you responded to how come they never see the storm behind Apple that is a Cash Cow. 3rd party opportunities for customization is high.

What I've figured out after checking out the actual tech specs on Apple's site is that it won't do HD video - even 720p. The panel is 1024x768. They got the vertical resolution fine, but it's 20% too narrow to be 720p widescreen, which even YouTube and Hulu do now. What a missed opportunity! If they had made it 720p capable and added a microSD slot, I might've actually bought an Apple product. *shrug* No third-party is going to make it show more pixels than it has available.

I am still very impressed by the quality of the display (an LED-backlit *IPS* panel?!), and the price, however.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[cheesybagel]

Yes. Steve wanted to make his very own N800 tablet.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Lord Ender]

The Kindle has a free unlimited data plan with no contract, a screen that's much easier on the eyes than backlit LCD, a much longer battery life, and it run Linux.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, buy an iPhone and tether it.... oops my bad. They don't allow that here. Try again.

Then move to a civilised country.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

McDonalds and Starbucks are cool?

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Haeleth]

Yeah, before you get too excited, you might like to remember that "unlimited" simply means "we're not going to tell you what the limit is until you hit it".

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[mdm-adph]

Which you have to pay $30 a month for, anyway. :P

_If_ you spend the money to get the $820 3G Ipad.

Though, I do like the lack of contract.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[zippthorne]

The only downside is that you have to take your five hundred dollar handheld computer into a restaurant where you eat greasy things with your fingers...

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[TeknoHog]

Here in Finland we have unlimited 3G data for 10 euro per month, and it doesn't exactly feel fucking awesome. Actually that is the lowest speed of 384/384 kbps, and for 30 a month you can get a few megs of downstream, though good luck getting the maximum in practice.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Tim C]

Yes - they have free wifi.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

I am waiting for the lettuce upgrade

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, there's some big potential here.

All models of the iPad device are unlocked, which means that other carriers will probably try to offer plans similar to the AT&T deal. (Would anyone really buy a data plan from AT&T right now, given that the iPhone has devastated their network?) And if multiple carriers start offering these plans, then multiple devices will probably support these plans. I predict that we will see an Android 2.x update that will use such a plan combined with Google Voice. That's how the iPad will change the world...I just hope it sells enough to get the ball rolling so I will have plenty of competing hardware to choose from!

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Arthur Grumbine]

The deal with AT&T is the biggest news. Holy hell that's fucking awesome.

...I'd consider going back to AT&T for that price.

Are you, by chance, from some Bizarro world where AT&T has a robust network capable of providing satisfactory speeds to hundreds of thousands of new bandwidth-gobbling internet tablets? If so, has the Year of Linux on the Desktop happened there?

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[RedWizzard]

The Kindle has a free unlimited data plan with no contract, a screen that's much easier on the eyes than backlit LCD, a much longer battery life, and it run Linux.

Yeah, but videos look like crap on it.

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[quenda]

It's got bluetooth. It should tether with anything.

Any chance of bluetooth tethering to my Nokia? Oh wait, the Nokia fits my pocket, does multitasking, Flash, has camera, GPS, a real keyboard, notification, Skype, and allows "competing" software (e.g. firefox) to be installed. Oh and it runs Linux. :-)

Re:No WCMDA/HSPA or even CDMA/EVDO is a huge miss

[Anonymous Coward]

Except it uses a microSIM, so it won't go in any old GSM phone. Even if you do eventually get a microSIM handset, the plan is almost certainly restricted to iPad devices--AT&T will more than likely prohibit the use of the plan on other devices in much the same way as they currently add the iPhone data plan automatically when you connect an iPhone to their network.

iPad? Really?

[FSWKU]

What an unfortunate name. One could conceiveably think that Apple is delving into the untapped market of network-enabled feminine hygiene products... What was wrong with the oft-rumored "iSlate" moniker? Also, what's the PRICE on this thing?

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPad, it has wings!

Re:iPad? Really?

[Enderandrew]

I really preffered Slate or iSlate over iPad.

Apple is not perfect. They whiff just like everyone else from time to time.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Canvas also seemed like a nice name

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

The downside of these new network enabled feminine hygiene products is that you have give it over to your wife for 3 days every month.

Re:iPad? Really?

[klubar]

And I was so hoping that they called it the Newton. Has a catchy ring to it, don't you think. Or they could have called it the Apple Newton Cube. Even better.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Arthur Grumbine]

What an unfortunate name.

Just wait until Apple partners with Sprint next year and releases the WiMax iPad.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Sponge Bath]

Apple is not perfect.

Heretic! No iPad for you!

Besides, iPad makes sense as a name since it is just a large screen iPod Touch. This choice of name makes it clear even Apple thinks of it that way.

Re:iPad? Really?

[syousef]

What an unfortunate name. One could conceiveably think that Apple is delving into the untapped market of network-enabled feminine hygiene products.

You're thinking of the second generation yet to be released iPad Maxi.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

$499+

Re:iPad? Really?

[kungfugleek]

Predicted by MadTV years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1BUH9eXy18

Re:iPad? Really?

[MaerD]

The next version will be a small stick with a holographic projector on top. It'll be known as the iTampon.

Re:iPad? Really?

[LittleBigScript]

Yes, we were all thinking it.

The infamous MadTV skit.

Re:iPad? Really?

[fieromerk]

"Pricing will start at $499 for the 16-gigabyte version, $599 for the 32-gig version and $699 for the 64, Jobs said. Having 3G mobile access will cost an extra $130 on each, he said." From cnn.com (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/01/27/apple.tablet/index.html?hpt=T1)

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, you mean we could see the iTampon and iDouche too?

Re:iPad? Really?

[LordKronos]

I agree that it is an unfortunate name, but I was more thinking for the sake of non-hip parents everywhere, and for the sake of their kids.

Mom: "Little Jimmy said he wants one of those iPad things for Christmas"
Dad: "You mean the iPod"
Mom: "Uhh, yeah, I guess that's what he said"
Dad: "No problem honey, they're only $100"

Re:iPad? Really?

[garg0yle]

They start at $499, and even the top-end model (64Gb and 3G wireless) is under a grand. US funds, of course.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Jazz-Masta]

Just wait until Apple partners with Sprint next year and releases the WiMax iPad.

Or they'll call it the MaxiPad

Re:iPad? Really?

[Arthur Grumbine]

OMGWTFBBQ - just like the woman's hygiene product, LOLZ!!11! I didn't even think of that!! Brilliant!!! Well-played!! What a CRAZY coincidence!1!l1!

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

It appears that Apple has taken a page from Nintendo's thinking. "I'm gonna go home, turn off all the lights, and play with my Wii hahahaalolz" is going to become "Hey come look at my iTampon hahahaalolz." Every incredibly obvious joke is free advertising for Apple.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess they figured only childish idiots would make the association, and who cares about useless zeros like that?

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

What an unfortunate name.

Just wait until Apple partners with Sprint next year and releases the WiMax iPad.

It's bleeding-edge technology, regardless.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Lemmy Caution]

Well, you do power it up by holding down the period key...

Re:iPad? Really?

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

They start at $499, and even the top-end model (64Gb and 3G wireless) is under a grand. US funds, of course.

When the 64GB/3G version is $499, I might start to think about being interested. Given Apple's pricing history, that should be around Q4, 2011.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

and just think of all the people in the boston area unable to differentiate the pronunciation of the the ipad and the ipod.

this could lead to poor communication when attempting to purchase the product, resulting in violence and possibly a Martin Scorsese film.

very bad move by apple indeed :/

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think its quite an apt name, finally an apple product that sounds to be of good use to the fannies that buy the overpriced crap.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

And...removed, terms of use violation.

Re:iPad? Really?

[jo42]

What an unfortunate name.

Nintendo got away with using Wii (urinate, pee, tinkle, piss, whiz).

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I never thought I'd see anything from MadTV modded 'funny'...

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

For those heavy data flow days.

Re:iPad? Really?

[tendays]

That video got deleted for not complying to site rules or something. What was it?

Re:iPad? Really?

[pclminion]

I don't like the name because it's too close to iPod.

Re:iPad? Really?

[zippthorne]

Why is that the first thing you think of? This is a geek site, you're supposed to be thinking that one more "d" and they'd have to pay royalties to the Paramount.

Re:iPad? Really?

[tendays]

Ah, this. :)

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the best 'iPad' joke i have head all day. Kudos!

Re:iPad? Really?

[broken_chaos]

Throws a TOU violation error. Anyone want to summarise or provide a more reliable link?

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why maxi pad?

Re:iPad? Really?

[KlaymenDK]

slate
      verb 1. cover (a roof) with slates. 2 Brit. informal criticize severely. 3 chiefly N. Amer. schedule; plan.

No highlighting required, I trust.

Re:iPad? Really?

[bdleonard]

Next up, the iPon ...

Re:iPad? Really?

[M. Baranczak]

"iPad" is the Bostonian pronunciation of iPod.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could have been worse. They could have called it the ... tap-on.

Re:iPad? Really?

[kungfugleek]

Thanks. They really took my link down fast.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Macrat]

Not exactly a new name.

In Star Trek TNG, the hand held tablets were called PADs.

Re:iPad? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your video has been yanked (as expected). You mean this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eF0y0IfpPU

Re:iPad? Really?

[evanspw]

Slate is a pretty horrible word (so is tablet). I imagine Jobs just screaming "no no no", and maybe firing someone just for fun at suggesting one of those. I though it would be iNote, with iPad a distant second choice. I guess they thought iNote would confuse people with notebooks, or hurt their notebook sales, so iPad it is (not withstanding tampon jokes). And they do want to convery the sense it a product between the iphone and the imac notebooks, so a pad kinda fits that.

Re:iPad? Really?

[klui]

Steve Jobs slipped up a couple of times saying iPod when he should have said iPad.

Re:iPad? Really?

[GNious]

Also, what's the PRICE on this thing?

The other day I saw an iPhone 3GS at little over €1000 - these things seems to be cheap!

Giant iPhone

[jfenwick]

How disappointing. I hoping this would be more like a Wacom tablet computer hybrid and less like a giant iphone.

Re:Giant iPhone

[trash eighty]

It might be a normal iPhone but Steve has shrunk

Re:Giant iPhone

[OldeTimeGeek]

HP made one, the T1100. It even used Wacom drivers. I have one. It sits gathering dust in my closet because it sucks. Too slow for graphic applications, too limited for anything else than taking notes and Magnetic Ink in Windows XP Tablet edition made that impossible because it was incapable of telling the difference between a lower case L and the number one.

The only thing nice about it was that the keyboard detached and it could be used as a true tablet.

Is that the real actual name?

[Spy Handler]

Ipad?? That sounds retarded... seriously. Even the Islate is better than that

Re:Is that the real actual name?

[olsmeister]

I would have gone with iSlab, myself. Or iPlank. How about iBlink?

Re:Is that the real actual name?

[N1tr0u5]

I agree.

Also, I don't think New England was considered when they were looking at names. I'm sure there's a bit of confusion in conversation among Mac enthusiasts.

Re:Is that the real actual name?

[Mr. Flibble]

Ipad?? That sounds retarded... seriously. Even the Islate is better than that

Well, you see, this version with the 10" screen is the iPad. The newer version, with a larger screen will be called the Maxipad.

Re:Is that the real actual name?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooh, iGetIt!

Re:Is that the real actual name?

[mrdoogee]

Sounds like a Kennedy talking about their iPod.

"Er ah, I, eh want an iPad! I want to watch, er ah, Dora the Explora!"

Re:Is that the real actual name?

[Anonymous Coward]

iPaperWeight?

Re:Is that the real actual name?

[rxan]

She doesn't need the iPad because she iSlate.

Backlit and eyestrain

[jbezorg]

I may still get a Kindle because of this reason.

Re:Backlit and eyestrain

[tirerim]

My girlfriend has the same problem (and she has a Kindle), and I tend to agree that the Kindle is better just as a book reader. A color screen with the ability to handle animation is better for a lot of other applications, though. I predict that it won't be long before there are devices with Pixel Qi screens or similar that can do both.

Re:Backlit and eyestrain

[GraZZ]

Hey, my eyes are so burnt from using my laptop in the dark that they PREFER a backlight!

Re:Backlit and eyestrain

[venicebeach]

When did everyone become such a wimp about looking at LCD screens?

I mean, how much time each day does any self-respecting Slashdot reader spend not looking a backlit screen?

Re:Backlit and eyestrain

[jbezorg]

Well, I thought it may be time to step away for a bit when I tried to get a tan by making a picture of the Sun my screen saver.

I sure as hell wasn't going to see the actual Sun and with it always moving across the screen and bouncing off the edges, I'd minimize tan lines.

Re:Backlit and eyestrain

[jbezorg]

That's so cool. You could hold your hand up so it shows up in the lower part of the rectangle view of the world and practice your head bob.

Re:Backlit and eyestrain

[jbezorg]

My friend let me take a look at his Kindle but I wanted to see what the iPad offered. Now that I have and given that I don't travel that much, I have to consider that a Kindle or iPad would be a at home appliance.

That means, for me, all the functionality offered by the iPad has already been covered and done so by better methods. It's also true that all the functionality offered by the Kindle has been covered but it offers better methods even though it offers a much narrower scope of them.

My conclusion is that the Kindle is cheaper and I get a better return on my investment for my circumstances. If I traveled more often, I would have to reevaluate or end up with both.

Like him or loath him

[arcite]

Steve Jobs IS a real life wizard of OZ.

And Apple will sell millions of these things.

Re:Like him or loath him

[yurtinus]

I dunno about that... Past iAnnouncements that took off (imac, ipod, iphone) had folks going "wow." This is just "hey look, big iPod..."

I mean, this *could* be neat and maybe there is something worthwhile in the available apps-- but so far I'm not seeing it. It will certainly be interesting to see if this takes off...

Re:Like him or loath him

[WegianWarrior]

Because people - and not just the fanboys - buy into the iHype and are fooled into believing they need one.

Re:Like him or loath him

[jo_ham]

Well, I needed a portable music player, so I bought an iPod.

I needed a new cellular phone, and I liked the look of the iPhone over the blackberry, so I bought an iPhone.

I needed a computer and I liked the iMac's all in one design, so I bought it (and dual boot OS X and XP).

Sorry, how have I been "fooled" into "thinking I need one"?

Re:Like him or loath him

[zegota]

Yep, just like the MacBook Air and Apple TV!

Re:Like him or loath him

[Darth Snowshoe]

Apple will sell many millions of these things. This thing is basically a hybrid between every other media-related thing you like, in a form factor that is exactly in the sweet spot of convenience and usability. The pricing alone is an indication that they intend to take over the world with this - the profit margin has got to be awfully thin. They intend to kill several other categories of device (say goodbye, Kindle, Garmin, Palm, hand-held DVD players) with this one. The form factor is durable - they're not going to shrink this any more, only continue to pack more and more features into the same carapace for the foreseeable future. Your grandchildren will be carrying around something that looks a lot like this.

Re:Like him or loath him

[WegianWarrior]

Well, I needed a portable music player, so I bought an iPod.

I needed a new cellular phone, and I liked the look of the iPhone over the blackberry, so I bought an iPhone.

I needed a computer and I liked the iMac's all in one design, so I bought it (and dual boot OS X and XP).

Sorry, how have I been "fooled" into "thinking I need one"?

Well, have you bought one yet? I though we were discussing the iPad - not any other products Apple has made so far.

Re:Like him or loath him

[jo_ham]

I don;t need one at the moment, so probably not. If I ned one, I might just. At any rate they are not available in the UK at the moment.

You seem to be implying that "fanboys" and the "general public" will be fooled into thinking they need an iPad, regardless of any actual free thought.

Can't a successful product simply be popular? Is it not possible that it will sell well because it's actually desirable? For some reason, because Apple's goals don;t *precisely* match the needs and wants of geeks, it means that any mass success of their products must be because people are being "duped" not because the device is actually worth buying, right?

They could deal with the Mac platform being the way it is because the marketshare is small, but iPods and iPhones sold like hot cakes - it can't be because they're any good right? It must be some sort of mass deceit!

Re:Like him or loath him

[KlaymenDK]

Caveat: I've only seen one short clip on youtube, but...

For the first time, I was actually disappointed by his performance.

I mean, I'm no Mac addict by a long shot (I gave away my last Mac, a Colour Classic) but this guy is legendary for his seriously effective presentation style. Usually, it's because he has the gadget to back it up, and it'll sell like hotcakes for a reason.

But this? Really, it lacks the supreme innovation that we're used to seeing (but which, I must grant, is bound to be a bitch to keep having to live up to). When he said, "You can view a *whole* web page!!1!" it sounded like a throwback to the (then and now) horrible computer commercials of the 80s, and so out of character for him.

I'm not saying he or Apple is "over the hill", but this is out of the ordinary, and not in a good way.

Oblig

[fiannaFailMan]

No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

Re:Oblig

[LordKronos]

Considering how much it is like the iPhone, I'm really disappointed that you can't use it as a phone. It had serious sidetalking potential.

Re:Oblig

[Sandbags]

What? WiFi N built in, 3G optional, tethers as well.

No, 16GB for the base model is not a lot, but 64GB is fine (especially since you'll stream most video in your home), and the 64GB model is $100 less than the low estimates that were given for the starting price estimate just yesterday...

You're getting 64GB for $699 if you have an iPhone and $830 if not and you need 3G. NO CONTRACT REQUIREMENT for the 3g as well and only $29/month (prepaid terms). Just yesterday everyone assumes $899 - 1000. You're complaining that you got what you expected for less money?

Re:Oblig

[witort]

Wireless. More space than a Nomad. Still lame.

Re:Oblig

[cualexander]

Updated version: No flash. Less space than an Archos. Lame.

Re:Oblig

[Pinky]

Different, updated and personalized version:

No full MacOS X, too big, lame...

Re:Oblig

[fiannaFailMan]

Whoosh!

Re:Oblig

[intheshelter]

Who cares about a Nomad or an Archos? I've NEVER seen or even heard of someone with them. Maybe there's a reason neither of those has any buyers?

You ridiculous posts making no sense. Lame.

Awkward keyboard usage

[jimasksme]

A nice solid entry and a step ahead in the evolution of portable computing. Although, the usage of the keyboard perplexes me. Using a keyboard while the screen lays flat just seems awkward to me..

http://jimasks.me/if-you-could-choose-how-you-would-die-what-would-you-choose-and-why

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[Noexit]

My thought exactly. I've been looking at this thing trying to figure out how you'd hold and use it. Too big to use your thumbs for the keyboard like a smartphone, you'd have to sit bolt upright and look directly down at it to use all 10 fingers. Weird.

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[natehoy]

You're assuming you'd ever use this at a desk without some form of external keyboard. I can see something like this sliding into a dock that holds it at a comfortable viewing angle and having a separate keyboard and some form of pointing device (mouse, trackpad, wacom, whatever) for desktop use.

That is, of course, assuming you want to use a device like this as both your go-everywhere oversized iPod Touch and your underpowered, small-screened desktop. However, a lot of people will make pretty serious compromises to consolidate to one device that can do everything they want.

More likely, this is targeted for doing what my wife does with her iPod Touch - checking her Facebook, surfing the web, typing up short emails, etc while sitting in bed or on the couch. For desktop stuff, we have a desktop computer.

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[phantomfive]

It has a keyboard dock, which makes this into essentially a netbook. Thus it is good enough for anyone who wants to watch movies, check email, play a few games, surf the net......basically the netbook market. It appears to have USB ports on the side.

It would be a travesty if this thing didn't support third party apps.

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[gobbo]

Using a keyboard while the screen lays flat just seems awkward to me

it probably has a PVA (etc.) screen that has a wide viewing angle so putting it on the desk and typing should be serviceable, but typing on a screen is an enormous compromise anyway

bluetooth = 3rd party devices like a roll-up keyboard, etc.

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[Sandbags]

It not only has a keyboard dock, but it also natively supports the Apple Bluetooth keyboard (which means likely other Bluetooth keyboards as well). It's a tablet, not a notebook. If you want a notebook, spend $400 more and get an iBook, spend the same and gett a poorer performing PC netbook. Spend $1500 and get a "real" tablet. I think it;s a REAL NICE pricepoint for it's features. (and we still only know have it's capabilities).

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[Sandbags]

the case is designed to give the back enda a 1-2" lift, which should make it feel fairly natural of an angle (just no tactile feedback)

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[proslack]

I'm sure someone will be selling a third-party "iEasel" with attached keyboard and mouse for a few hundred bucks by next Christmas.

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[dorre]

To be honest there's potential that apple might have struck gold again.

This is device for information consumption! This is what it was designed for and this is what most will use it for. Media/web/tvshows.

It makes sense to compare it to the iPhone in the perspective that the iPhone is pretty lousy phone, but a very smart platform for having information available 'at a touch of your fingertip (or other bodily part)'. In this sense the iPad probably outperforms the iPhone.

And personally i think surfing with a touchscreen is one of the nicest ways of surfing. It's very intuitive. Take this concept and make it work on a 10" device and at least you've got yourself a good gamble.

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[RightSaidFred99]

Solid entry and step ahead in what? Tablets have been around for ages. Apple has just "invented" them...again.

Re:Awkward keyboard usage

[Arthur Grumbine]

It has a keyboard dock, which makes this into essentially a netbook.

Except that the dock appears to only hold it vertically, which means you only have 768px horizontally. This seriously hampers laptop/desktop-equivalent web browsing capability - especially because the iPad being in the dock makes it a lot more awkward to be using the pinch-zoom functionality that would normally allow you to reasonably navigate 1024+ pixel-wide formatted websites.

Perfect!

[Anonymous Coward]

I was looking at the iPhone the other day and I was just thinking that it would be so much better if it didn't fit into any of my pockets.

Re:Perfect!

[cowscows]

The usefulness of a larger screen than an iPhone for many many tasks is obvious. If you have a way to make that bigger screen fit into our pockets, please develop a product and sell it. You'll make a ridiculous amount of money.

Re:Perfect!

[okmijnuhb]

Or make phone calls

No 3g?

[Blimey85]

With no 3G I suddenly don't want one. I love my iPhone and thought this would be great for watching videos and surfing on the couch, but I also want to take it places where I don't have wifi and in the modern age, most things you do require the internet. Seems silly to not include that.

Re:No 3g?

[ceoyoyo]

Were you going to leave your phone at home?

Re:No 3g?

[ceoyoyo]

Hey, there you go, for those who enjoy paying their cell company twice, there's one with 3G and accompanying data plan!

Re:No 3g?

[StuartHankins]

It has 3G on some models. $15 for 250MB / $30 unlimited. AT&T (yuck). No contract though.

Re:No 3g?

[bloosh]

Nobody thought to wait until the end to state it wouldn't support 3G??? The thing does indeed support 3G on AT&T.

Re:No 3g?

[Anonymous Coward]

There will be 3g models available 30 days after the non-3g models are available. Not sure where Slashdot is getting its information. http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/live-from-the-apple-tablet-latest-creation-event/

Re:No 3g?

[Anonymous Coward]

With no 3G I suddenly don't want one. I love my iPhone and thought this would be great for watching videos and surfing on the couch, but I also want to take it places where I don't have wifi and in the modern age, most things you do require the internet. Seems silly to not include that.

It DOES have 3G, and it's UNLOCKED. Just pick a carrier that offers Micro SIM cards, and go...

If anyone would watch any of the live blogs before posting, you would see that there are two versions: With and without 3G. The 3G models cost $130 more, and will be released 30 days after the initial Wifi-only versions.

Re:No 3g?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's built in. Two models, one with Wifi, one with Wifi and 3G. Unlocked 3G, any carrier using the micro-sim format.

Re:No 3g?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a wfi model and 3g+wifi model

Yes but...

[thewils]

Does it run Linux? And can I play Duke Nukem Forever on it?

Re:Yes but...

[chentiangemalc]

well it uses Apple A4 chip, based on ARM architecture with integrated GPU. possibly linux compiled for ARM processor may run with some modification?

Re:Yes but...

[flanksteak]

Only when you have multiple iPads in a Beowulf cluster.

Please tell me I can remove the battery

[matty619]

I'm guessing they kept some of the worst features of the iphone, such as lack of flash support (mentioned above) no memory expandability, proprietary USB cable, no user replaceable battery, etc.....its all going to depend on the price...$1,000? No way. $3-400? I could see having one or 2 of those laying around the house. But I'm just not getting the same "gotta have it" feeling as when they unveiled the iphone. Oh well....at least its shiny :)

Re:Please tell me I can remove the battery

[Anonymous Coward]

Here are a soldering iron and Dremel tool. Go to town, podner.

Seriously: nobody gives a shit about replacing batteries in these things. The battery in my launch-day iPhone 2G still works fine.

Multi-tasking

[konadelux]

So help me god this thing better have multitasking

Re:Multi-tasking

[prockcore]

It doesn't.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm afraid the answer is a gritty, in-your-face NO.

Re:Multi-tasking

[xactuary]

If it does, I didn't see it. But then again, engadget failed on me 25 times during the presentations.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

So help me iGod this thing better have multitasking

there, fixed that for you. ;)

Re:Multi-tasking

[Selfbain]

According to Engadget it doesn't multitask at all.

That's the deal killer for me.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, no multitasking from what I've read on several sites.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

Dream on.. It uses the same OS as the Iphone and Ipod. It's already been confirmed there is NO MULTITASKING in this device.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say it does, therefore it doesn't.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Sandbags]

Well, since it has no native GPS chip (i think a bad move, but hey, there will be another model in 8 months...), then what are you missing? media streaming? Apple has already admitted an iPod/iTunes app plug-in model is in the works for iPhone OS 4, so Pandora streaming while editing docs should be a non issue... Outside of that, c'mon really. It;s 64GB for $830 at 10", or for $899 you get a 13" macbook... WEhat would you choose if you were a power user of a device (lets face it, a power user looking for multitasking is going to want 3G and 64GB and not be happy with the 16GB $499 base model).

Honestly, Apple is dead on in the market segment, and they're right, multitasking is irrelevent. So long as i can use it while it's syncing, and i get an iPod plug-in system, Safari already background downloads, iPod already backgrounds, notifications work, e-mail is allways on, it's not a phone... multitasking is not required. there is no use case.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

So help me god this thing better have multitasking

Oh don't worry... it doesn't.

Re:Multi-tasking

[D4MO]

Nope

Re:Multi-tasking

[Sandbags]

there is no confirmation one way or the other on that. iPhone OS DOES multi-task, just not foreground user apps. notifications, messaging, audio source playback all do work in the background on iPhone OS 3.1. This new UI does make it much simpler to create a solution to handle more intuitive app switching (which is all we're really talking about since all other OS level functions, including downloads in Safari, do work in the background). This very well could have more features that we've been exposed to.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

it doesn't.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't.

Hear that? That's the sound of Steve Jobs trolling EVERYBODY.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone 3.2 SDK docs definitely indicate it does not multitask.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Sami00Sami]

Silly you, there is no god.

Re:Multi-tasking

[broken_chaos]

Which just killed any grudging interest/drool I may have reserved for it.

It's not a reader device (certainly not for me -- I'm someone who prefers e ink for large amounts of pure text), it's not a portable device (a little too large for most pockets, probably even for many purses), and it's not a computer (no multitasking). I can deal with no multitasking on an iPod touch or similar, but not on something of this sort of size/usage -- it seems to be being pushed as an 'internet tablet' for the most part, with some lesser emphasis on books and multimedia (sometimes all three in hybrid). Sorry, but if I'm browsing the web in any significant fashion (beyond very simple reading or single-intent searching, the like of which I'm happy to do on a much smaller screen), I'd like to be able to swap (easily and quickly) between web browser tabs/windows, e-mail messages, sometimes instant messaging, occasionally IRC, and miscellaneous other stuff I'm doing at the time (such as SSH sessions, text editing, FTP upload/download, etc.).

They're even releasing a keyboard accessory for it, but it will be unable to properly, say, edit a document and browse the web at the same time... No easy copy/paste from sources, no quick 'alt-tabbing' between the pages you're reading and the document you're writing... I know the reality-distortion field is a real effect of Apple's marketing, but this iPad (why is that one letter off from iPod? Isn't that confusing too?) starts becoming more underwhelming the more you consider it... And I honestly like Apple's computers, iPods, and several of their software products (such as OSX).

Re:Multi-tasking

[prockcore]

there is no confirmation one way or the other on that

Engadget played around with one.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/apple-ipad-first-hands-on/

There's no multitasking at all. It's a real disappointment. All this power and very little you can do with it at once. No multitasking means no streaming Pandora when you're working in Pages... you can figure it out. It's a real setback for this device.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

So help me god this thing better have multitasking

God doesn't care if it has multitasking. He just sits in a cloud, waiting for you to make a mistake...and then KAPOW, off you go to the hot place.

Re:Multi-tasking

[KnownIssues]

Ergo, there is no god.

Re:Multi-tasking

[nobodyman]

... multitasking is not required. there is no use case.

I dunno man, sounds like your trying to convince yourself, not us. To say that there aren't *any* use cases is just silly. How about skype calls while using another app? There's a case right there!

Having used an iPhone and and Android phone I can tell you that multitasking is a nice feature to have. And the iPhone notifications are a joke compared to what you get with android (especially for IM and VOIP clients).

The only reason iPhone/iPad doesn't have multitasking is because of battery life issues and RAM limitations. To say "oh you don't need those things" is just being an apologist.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

So the thing can't check for email in the background while you are reading a book on it? Or any other browser or pushed tech while accessing some other app?

That is lame. Even an iphone can handle a call and web access or email at the same time.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, it doesn't.

But Apple designed it that way, so that must be how we want it, right?

Re:Multi-tasking

[Anonymous Coward]

No multitasking, sorry.

Re:Multi-tasking

[Charybdis3]

Nope. Wait for jailbreak. (Isn't it annoying that you have to hack your iDevice to make it do what it should already?)

Re:Multi-tasking

[Sandbags]

Hmm, why for instance would a device with no Voice calling chip have SDK functions to background a "call"?

The iPad has call suppression features. The battery life deal was in fact pretty big for the iPhone. Also, it's original incarnation didn't have an app store, and Apple didn't have plans for all other forms of things (almost all their own original apps did multitask).

Yea, switching can use serious improvement, but it;s not like you're "quitting" apps when switching today (unless they don't code for suspend support) and the difference between RAM and Flash is really a grey area... It's kind of like having 1GB of ram and 15GB of swap space... it;s easily interchanged, and OS level functions like downloads continue.

I've looked at a lot of use cases, given the iPhone UI there was less of a case than with the iPad, and some levels, like chat, could easily be brought through now.

OS 4 is around the corner. Apple has ADMITTED additional levels of both background and foreground processing are in the works. Use of a single IP connection will likely prevail forever (there really is not argument against that), and certain centralized processing subsystems (like audio generation/playback), but we do expect continued improvement in this area.

Still, I have a hard time multitasking unless I've got multiple displays and a whole lot more screen resolution. multiple apps running at the same time if they're on top of each other doesn't gain me any productivity. Make the pop-ups more thorough (don;t just give a notification, give the complete text, and a reply option, this slight modification to notifications essentially BECOMES a chat app and could be used more flexiblally elsewhere).

The real limitations on the iPhone were RAM, battery, and UI SPACE. UI space is solved, as soon as they redesign it... Don't believe us? wait until June and OS 4 to buy it...

iPhad

[ddebrito]

Phirst iPost!

Compared to netbooks

[kovari]

Slightly lighter, smaller screen, no proper keyboard, no expandable storage, less powerfull processor, similar battery life, no support for Beowulf clustering. Did I forget anything?

Re:Compared to netbooks

[flabordec]

Did I forget anything?

Higher price and hundreds of thousands of sales more

Re:Compared to netbooks

[shutdown -p now]

Yes. You can buy a netbook with internal 3G, which this thing lacks (and is unlikely to be extensible in terms of hardware).

Re:Compared to netbooks

[Sinning]

It also doesn't play Crysis.

Re:Compared to netbooks

[afidel]

Netbook sales were 33.3M with $11.4B in revenue in 2009, this thing isn't going to put any kind of dent in that.

Re:Compared to netbooks

[Marcika]

Netbook sales were 33.3M with $11.4B in revenue in 2009, this thing isn't going to put any kind of dent in that.

iPhone sales were 9M in the last three months alone - and that is for a $2000+ TCO device. The iPad is even more of a status symbol than the iPhone, so I wouldn't wonder if it captures 80% of the nongeek market (which is 10x as large as the geek market)...

Phenomenal

[amicusNYCL]

To see the whole page is phenomenal

I'm not sure "phenomenal" is the right term to describe "seeing a whole page". You would think that we've never been able to see a whole page before and that Steve Jobs is personally responsible for some entirely new experience.

I guess that's what they mean by the reality distortion field.

You can turn it any way you want.

Good god, you mean I can pick the thing up and actually turn it? I'm so excited I'm about to soil myself! Will Apple innovations never cease?

Re:Phenomenal

[shutdown -p now]

I'm not sure "phenomenal" is the right term to describe "seeing a whole page". You would think that we've never been able to see a whole page before and that Steve Jobs is personally responsible for some entirely new experience.

I suspect it was "phenomenal" in a sense that you couldn't do that on iPhone/iPod. Which just reiterates the point that this really is just a big iPod Touch, and little else.

Re:Phenomenal

[chentiangemalc]

i have a couple of books around me - guess what? i can turn them anyway I want as well, AND see the whole page at the same time.

Re:Phenomenal

[CannonballHead]

Yes, but those books only cost $15, whereas this will cost many hundreds more than that... which just proves that Apple's solution is better.

Re:Phenomenal

[jo_ham]

How do the words rotate around if you hold the book sideways, or would you ordinarily read sideways.

Re:Phenomenal

[Sandbags]

Well, considdering both the low res of netbooks, and the portrait-only widescreen display mode, and considdering no other mobile device can do that, honestly he's right, this is the first mobile device other than an full scale notebook platform that can display an entire web site on a screen. (old school tablets too, but they're not exactly $500 devices either).

on the exclamation of turning it, yea, i agree. Not exactly revolutionary.

Re:Phenomenal

[amicusNYCL]

considdering no other mobile device can do that, honestly he's right, this is the first mobile device other than an full scale notebook platform that can display an entire web site on a screen

I guess, if you only live your life in small mobile devices (which apparently Steve Jobs does), then you would probably consider seeing more than 400 pixels at once "phenomenal". I've got a pair of 28" monitors with one portrait and one landscape, so for me seeing a whole page is "how it works", not "phenomenal".

I'm curious how many people will watch his presentation and then try to explain to their friends how seeing an entire page of text at once is phenomenal, while actually believing that this is something new.

on the exclamation of turning it, yea, i agree. Not exactly revolutionary.

Very punny.

Re:Phenomenal

[broken_chaos]

You can turn it any way you want.

Good god, you mean I can pick the thing up and actually turn it? I'm so excited I'm about to soil myself! Will Apple innovations never cease?

Yes, you can only turn your iPod or iPhone (I say 'your' because you must have one, otherwise you don't exist) in three directions and have the screen rotate. This adds a full fourth direction (not a half of a direction!) so it's 1/4th better already!

And that seeing the whole page thing? Well, you can only see like, 1/4th of a page on your iPod or iPhone, so that's where the other 3/4ths come from, making this 100% better than your iPod or iPhone -- so you need to go buy it, now!

(...Note: Post may contain large amounts of sarcasm. Do not take with alcohol.)

Re:Phenomenal

[Anonymous Coward]

So why don't you take your existing PC or phone and turn it any which ever way you like. See how it works when you're about to go to sleep. Or when you're just waking up and a bit late for your train but still want to check mail for urgent stuff. Or when you've had a few too many beers and are lying on the floor and just feel obliged to check your mail before you pass out.

Or when you need the keyboard fast. I mean fast - like now! No time to fiddle with tethering, unfolding and all that balls - I just want it now.

Or when you're talking to a lady, out in the garden, and all of a sudden this massively romantic memory of yours says - play that thing on the ipad/pod/slate whatever. Of course, you geeks wouldn't really know about that, would you?.... see, I didn't even leave the QM out...l

Re:Phenomenal

[amicusNYCL]

So why don't you take your existing PC or phone and turn it any which ever way you like.

Why exactly would I do that? The reason I have one monitor in landscape orientation and the other in portrait orientation is so that I can have, for example, my page of code showing up in landscape (less line wrapping and horiz. scrolling), while simultaneously viewing the project I'm working on in portrait mode (less vert. scrolling).

It sounds phenomenal, I know. I call it "iWork".

See how it works when you're about to go to sleep.

Considering the fact that it's in my bedroom, it works pretty well. It even has Flash player on it so that I can watch any content online, not just Apple-approved content!

Or when you're just waking up and a bit late for your train but still want to check mail for urgent stuff.

Email goes to my (non-Apple) phone, and has been for years, I don't need a new device from Apple to be able to read email away from my computer.

Or when you've had a few too many beers and are lying on the floor and just feel obliged to check your mail before you pass out.

Not really an issue.. among other things, if I'm that drunk I'm usually more interested in many other things before email.

Or when you need the keyboard fast. I mean fast - like now! No time to fiddle with tethering, unfolding and all that balls - I just want it now.

A physical keyboard sitting in front of me works remarkably well when I need it now.

Or when you're talking to a lady, out in the garden, and all of a sudden this massively romantic memory of yours says - play that thing on the ipad/pod/slate whatever.

When I'm talking to a woman, regardless of where we are, my romantic side is not telling me to bring out the gadgets. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Re:Phenomenal

[shutdown -p now]

Well, considdering both the low res of netbooks, and the portrait-only widescreen display mode, and considdering no other mobile device can do that, honestly he's right, this is the first mobile device other than an full scale notebook platform that can display an entire web site on a screen.

What "low res" of netbooks? Mine does 1366x768, which is more than this thing. Most do 1024x600, which isn't all that much different from iPad.

Then again, 768x1024 is not good enough (i.e. not wide enough) for quite a few websites out there, so even disregarding any comparison, it's still one lousy point for Steve to make. Of course you can find a website that "fits", but then you can find one that'd fit on, say, a N900 (800x480) just as well.

Re:Phenomenal

[Anonymous Coward]

When I'm talking to a woman, regardless of where we are, my romantic side is not telling me to bring out the gadgets.

Well, it depends on the woman...

- T

Re:Phenomenal

[Anonymous Coward]

To see the whole page is phenomenal

I'm not sure "phenomenal" is the right term to describe "seeing a whole page". You would think that we've never been able to see a whole page before and that Steve Jobs is personally responsible for some entirely new experience.

I guess that's what they mean by the reality distortion field.

*Slapsknee* Hooo, boy, y'sure got 'em with that one, Mikey Jack. I bet your existing mobile device can show a readable page on a single screen too... right, Mikey? Hey, Mikey, why don't you answer?

You can turn it any way you want.

Good god, you mean I can pick the thing up and actually turn it? I'm so excited I'm about to soil myself! Will Apple innovations never cease?

Burn! Face! Moded! Ha ha, you sure showed them Silly Con Valley boys, Mikey Jack. Why, just the other day I flipped your laptop sideways and the monitor stayed exactly in place without adapting for your convenience... Mikey, come back.. awww, where ya goin, Mikey?

Re:Phenomenal

[Sandbags]

Gee, never though of a pair of 28" monitors as portable....

Re:Phenomenal

[Sandbags]

I've not seen 768 lines on a sub 10" netbook, and certainly not on any netbook under $500 unless it was subsidized below that point by a $60/month data plan contract for a 2 year commitment.

1024x600 is not sufficient. I tried. I got by in 1024x768 for years. 768 wide is not bad either since it auto scales, and very few sites are designed for wider than 800 pixels. (there are a few, but then those are also designed for a lot more than 700 lines vertical too...

the point however was not the resolution, it was the experience, fluidity, rotation, and more. A netbook MIGHT have a better resolution screen (though certainly not IPS response and color in this price class), but netbooks don;t do portrait, weigh more, have more limited batteries, and don't do HDTV (in this price class).

Will it replace all uses for a netbook, hell no. It replaces 70% of the reason though, and likely half the users could easily exchange an iPad for 100% of their needs in this class. That's tens of millions of devices per year, and they're hoping to sell 4 million atm...

Re:Phenomenal

[amicusNYCL]

Yeah it's hard when they're bolted to the wall. Of course, I've never considered a mobile device as anything I'm able to be remotely productive or efficient on for work. A mobile device would be handy to be able to connect with a server and fix a problem, but I'm not going to even try to develop on a ten inch screen.

Re:Phenomenal

[Sandbags]

Develop? no, it's not for that.... but neither is any netbook or low cost portable computer at all, so that is not a valid argument against the class of machine or it;s viable use cases. Edit, fix a bug, yea if you had to. Read an error log? yea. Diagnose issues? yea. Use it as a production machine? hell no.

I don't develop when I'm not at work (at work does sometimes include at home, but I'm on the clock doing something productive). When I'd be out and about with an iPad, I'd expect I'm NOT on call, and not planning on any active work. If I was on call, I'd have my desktop replacement 17" machine with me. If I'm headed to be beach or the pool, or just to lounge in the back yard, no. Also, hanging a 17" laptop from by back seat so the kids can watch a flic on a long trip is not quite as ideal, nor it trying to tie it into my home theatre system as an HTPC (as getting a call and needing to do some work would interrupt the movie for everyone else beside me, when i could simply leave the iPad plugged in).

Coughcough.

[mattcsn]

Four out of six for sure. I'm just waiting to see what the price is, and if it's usable without the usual itunes umbilical.

iPad

[dark42]

No WWAN. Less space than an Eee PC. Lame.

Re:iPad

[itsdapead]

Why would I get one? For half the price I can get a 12" Wacom tablet.

But they're crap! You can't run a web browser on them and they don't even have a display - you have to hook them up to a laptop! And you can only write on them with a special pen! How am I going to use that to browse websites and stream video in my armchair?

See the problem? I can see a use for a 10" wireless media terminal. You want a specialist pen input device for your photography work. One of these things is not the same as the other.

I don't want a pony, but I don't go onto MySpace and post "OMG! Ponies are so lame! You can't use them on the freeway, and you have to feed them even when you're not using them! Fail!".

Maybe you were hoping that the iPad would be an alternative for a $1000 Wacom Cintiq with built in display (nice...) or the equally expensive pen-driven laptops from Toshiba, HP, Fujitsu et. al. which have been failing to sell outside of niche markets for years.

Re:iPad

[falconwolf]

I don't want a pony, but I don't go onto MySpace and post "OMG! Ponies are so lame!

Now where did I say iPads were lame? Hint, nowhere. What I have said was that Apple was missing a market for larger tablets, photographers who are a natural market for them.

Is this a troll?

Falcon

Well, if there's one thing Apple fans need...

[Anonymous Coward]

it's a PAD!

Watching the presentation live...

[Hamster Lover]

Watching the announcement live I was struck with just how absorbent the crowd was regarding iPad presentation. It's like this product has wings. I wonder how well the iPad will handle those heavy work flow days.

Re:Watching the presentation live...

[Anonymous Coward]

And if you check out the comments on twitter, people seem to be gushing about the iPad.

Re:Watching the presentation live...

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how well the iPad will handle those heavy [work] flow days.

You'll need the maxi size iPad, or switch to the iTampon, on your heaviest days.

Re:Watching the presentation live...

[peterprior]

Well it is bleeding edge hardware....

Re:Watching the presentation live...

[lowrydr310]

iPad. 40% more absorbent than iTampon.

Re:Watching the presentation live...

[steelfood]

It's like this product has wings.

That's coming in the next version. I hear they're great for preventing leaks.

Original iPod review

[Wyatt Earp]

/. just should have taken this - http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/1816257&tid=107 and formed it for iPad.

With
"No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

Wifi tethering with Android or Nokia, of course!

[pydev]

You can use this as a mobile device by tethering it over Wifi to an Android or Noikia device.

Fantastic!

[diskofish]

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, can we move on now?

Re:Fantastic!

[e2d2]

Slow down speedy, we have to take a shit on it first. Then we move on.

Re:Fantastic!

[GraZZ]

No, now we have 60 days of "ZOMG it's coming!!!" news to look forward to. Especially as everyone and their app-programming-mother shows off their NEW, on-the-iPad apps.

Re:Fantastic!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait to see that youtube video:

"guy camps to be first in line for the ipad, only to take a shit on it in front of the amassed crowd of apple fanboys" ...I'm just throwin seeds out there.

Re:Fantastic!

[complete loony]

But now there's an (almost) shipping product, there's a whole range of new topics to discuss. Like; will it blend, a step by step dis-assembly, etc.

Re:Fantastic!

[Anonymous Coward]

Has this been compared to a Nomad yet? Once I can compare the 2 then we can move on.

For one the name "iPad" is hysterical

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason why I would need a bigger iTouch is because apple intentionally does not provide an onboard PDF reader on the smaller version. And the only reason the iPad will be bought is that apple has restricted that feature intentionally.

No Thanks, I will be getting an Entourage instead of a Steve Jobs Etch-a-sketch. It will most likely be way cheaper than it - that's for sure.

Plus the name is hysterical iPad?! Really LMFAO! xD

Mediocre

[hh4m]

Shares of Apple dropped 1.68 percent, or 3.46 dollars as Jobs took the stage and unveiled the new device.

btw, the 64GB version is called iPad MaXi!

Re:Mediocre

[Lars T.]

+2.04 (0.99%) - thanks for playing

Re:Mediocre

[hh4m]

200.92 -6.97 (-3.35%) Real-time: 10:14AM EST Today

Re:Mediocre

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you going to admit that you're wrong you fucking idiot?

Trading under $200.

Thanks for playing (poorly).

Re:Mediocre

[Lars T.]

Are you going to admit that you're wrong you fucking idiot?

Trading under $200.

Thanks for playing (poorly).

Well, that has more to do with the Nokia results than the iPad, you highly intelligent AC. Or rather their weird claims about marketshare, mixing "strong demand for high-end smartphones" with an increased share in all handsets. Which of course must mean that Apple is doomed Yeah, the market has already forgotten that Apple doubled their sales of iPhones compared to last years quarter.

Extra things you'll need

[suso]

Well on top of whatever this costs, you're going to have to consider that you'll still need to have your iPhone and your iBook, so you'll need to buy an iRack to hold it all.

What was I saying just a few days ago about how we never build devices that replace previous ones, we just augment the array of what you need to have? Ah yes, here it is

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

But it doesn't.

I use a 1.2ghz Pentium M tablet PC running XP tablet edition (Less than $350 with a new battery). Why? because I can annotate PDF files, take notes with one note (PLEASE we need a OSS version of that app) and then at the end of the meeting I can simply email all of it via my corperate email. Those two apps are the killer apps most people that use a tablet professionally need. I can annotate the customers blueprints and send them and engineering a copy, Plus my notes in one note are easy to organize. All on something that costs less than this thing will even in it's el-cheapo form.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[bendodge]

Jobs just said it starts at $499.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[sopssa]

Exactly. Apparently this one costs $499. And it doesn't even have 3G (afraid of Nokia's patents?). Thats a major letdown for me, as I have cheap unlimited 3g and it would be perfect with a thing like this.

And the device is completely closed down like iPhone - if you want apps, you need to buy them from App Store.

I was waiting for the announcement, but meh. Not for me. I'll just wait for Courier.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Moryath]

Let's see: so in essence what we have here is an iPod Touch with a 10" screen, and still pretty skimpy storage space.

Plus, it's only useful if you jailbreak it, once people figure out how to do so.

Yeah. I get the feeling this is gonna fly like the Macbook Air did. Give 'em 48 hours and people will wonder what the hell Apple was thinking.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Sexy Commando]

More on the iRack.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[cayenne8]

"Exactly. Apparently this one costs $499. And it doesn't even have 3G (afraid of Nokia's patents?). Thats a major letdown for me, as I have cheap unlimited 3g and it would be perfect with a thing like this."

Not sure where you and the summary of this got that the iPad doesn't have 3G??

There are 3 models with only WiFi...and 3 models that have WiFi + 3G. 3G uses something called a "Micro Sim"??

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Eponymous Coward]

If you already have 3g, why would you want another wireless contract? Just tether it to the one you already have.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[sopssa]

Yeah summary mislead me.

"So $499 for 16GB of iPad," Jobs explained. "That's our base model. 32GB is $599, 64GB is $799. 3G models cost an extra $130. $629, 729, and 829 with 3G."

$130 extra for 3G. Geez.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Aeros]

dont forget your iWallet and your iMoneyTree to get all your money for these products. Actually the pricing sounds pretty fair for this. The only downside is they dont include a camera and a card reader.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[cayenne8]

"If you already have 3g, why would you want another wireless contract? Just tether it to the one you already have."

As far as I know, in the US, they still don't allow tethering to your iPhone?

That, and I'd rather not run the battery out on my phone if I don't have to...since I cut the landline, I gotta keep my phone charged at all times.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Aeros]

it does have 3G for an extra price

Re:Extra things you'll need

[cayenne8]

"The only downside is they dont include a camera and a card reader."

Those will come on the next iterations, I'm sure...well,at least cameras. I suppose you could just hook up a USB card reader to this thing (does it have USB connectivity?)

Re:Extra things you'll need

[kju]

Not sure where you and the summary of this got that the iPad doesn't have 3G??

Because the article was written when neither the price nor the 3G feature were announced yet. Apparently slashdot wanted to be quick to report the iPad, so they did not care to wait for further details.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[quadelirus]

Or it will fly like the iPod touch did.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[bonch]

The iPad supports 3G.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[bemymonkey]

This device has nothing to do with actual Tablet PCs - it's a tablet form factor, but I doubt you'll get the same accuracy that a Wacom-Tablet/Screen offers with a capacitive stylus and this screen...

For surfing the web or reading eBooks... yah, maybe. I'll stick with my keyboard and trackpoint, thank you very much, but I'm sure a lot of people will find this more intuitive.

But for actual work? Forget it.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[bonch]

Slashdot's color commentary on important Apple announcements over the years:

iPod - "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."

iPod mini - "Nobody is going to buy a 4GB external drive for $250."

iPad - "It's just a useless iPod touch with a bigger screen. What were they thinking?"

Re:Extra things you'll need

[aslate]

Exactly my thoughts, they've done the Tablet PC without including the pen, the reason that Tablet PCs are so useful.

Our Uni publishes all the notes online as PDFs, i load up aforementioned app and annotate right on the notes. But i can also insert extra pages, copy-paste and insert diagrams. My logic coursework and having the ability to copy/paste/edit previous lines, as well as doodle without wrecking it is so much more useful than a pad of paper. The brilliance of a Tablet PC is the pen, not the fact you can poke it.

My 3.5 year old Tablet PC has a 1.7Ghz Pentium M with 1GB RAM and is now running Windows 7. It blows the functionality of this thing out the water.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

The Macbook Air is the best laptop I've ever got. This one isn't 'luggable' but truly portable. It's what the market always promised but never could deliver.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[daveime]

What gets me is the price step up for the memory ...

To get +16 GB the price increase is $100
To get +32 GB the price increase is another $200

So basically, we are talking $100 per 16GB of flash memory, when I could buy a 16GB USB dongle for any other device for $10 ???

And the $130 extra for 3G ? A lot of mobiles don't cost that, and have a hell of a lot more than 3G built in.

As usual, another iRipoff, and the fanbois will lap it up ... fucking mugs.

I have karma to burn, so do your worst, it won't change reality, only the visibility of this comment ...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Garrett Fox]

Wow, Apple managed to invent the netbook only a couple years late for several hundred bucks more! Jobs' comments said that he wanted to establish a new class of device between smartphones and laptops. It's as though he was unaware that there's been such a category for years, and that it costs a lot less than $500, and that it doesn't lock you into one manufacturer's control so hard you can't even change the battery yourself.

The parent comment is right in that a lot of people will probably buy the thing, 'cause it's new and shiny and Apple made it. But it's an obviously inferior device as I see it.

(Now if only Asus will replace my $320 lemon eeePC now that I've mailed it in for repair for the fourth time...)

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Judge_Fire]

3G and GPS to be exact.

It's a slightly different build for the backplate to allow for a plastic strip (3G radio transmission) and thus isn't the unibody thing. More parts, less rigidity and so on

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod Parent Up!

Fuck the Apple Trollboys, they hate it when you don't bow down to the cult of Jobs.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[ZOmegaZ]

http://www.osalt.com/wikidpad http://www.osalt.com/zim I can't vouch for their quality or usefulness, but there's a non-zero chance this post will help you, so...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

But it doesn't.

I use a 1.2ghz Pentium M tablet PC running XP tablet edition (Less than $350 with a new battery). Why? because I can annotate PDF files, take notes with one note (PLEASE we need a OSS version of that app)

have you ever tried basket notes? I actually prefer notecase because i like the tree structure better, but basket notes has more of a "one note" look and feel to it

Re:Extra things you'll need

[bailout911]

Kind of amusing that you're bashing a $500 device when your $320 netbook has been in for repair FOUR TIMES. People always rail on the interchangable battery thing, but I've never carried spare batteries for ANYTHING I've owned. If you're on the move, do you really want to lug around a couple extra pounds? They list 10 hours of battery life including video playback, which, judging by my experiences with a 1st gen iPod touch, is believable.

This thing is more a web-surfing super eBook reader than a true netbook, but in my opinion, it looks awesome. No, it's not a hacker's dream come true mega-portable computer, it's a "normal" person's digital media device. It's for eBooks, music, photos, the web and email and it's designed to do those tasks in a sleek, sexy, simple manner.

This happens with every Apple product announcement. People speculate and expect it to have every feature under the sun, cost next to nothing and be 100% open source, cure cancer, make coffee and have its only environmental by-product be rainbows. Sorry, people, this is the real world. This product looks awesome for what it's designed to be. It's not going to replace your netbook for hacking perl on your favorite geek project and it's not supposed to.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[PopeRatzo]

But for actual work? Forget it.

It's not meant for work.

It's a social signifier, meant for being seen pretending to read the Infinite Jest ebook in an overpriced caffeine boutique.

It's how a certain segment of the population can identify one another without having to expose their tattoos of improperly-used Chinese characters.

Think of the iPad as the tech version of eyebrow jewelery.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[theJML]

I read that as "Sweet, I can save $130+ by not getting 3G." Seriously. If this thing did everything I wanted and I had to get a 3G service contract and such I'd never buy it. With the fact that everywhere I go there's an access point, or a lack of me needing access 3G is so useless.

There's no reason to drag something this large outside of the work/home offices. I mean, I could see maybe reading with it on a trip, but do you really need 3G for that? you buy the book before you leave just like you'd have done normally. If you want to web surf, then I suppose I can see that, but it's $14.99 for the CHEAP 3G data plan (250MB/mo), that's $180/year... + the $130 extra at purchase... I'm glad it's an option.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[iccaros]

Please post where I can buy a touch screen tablet (not pen) for that price (I have been searching and it may change my mind) and does Pages, Keynote and numbers not count. Can not do blue prints as I assume they are Auto CAD.. but hay .. but can any non windows device can do that.. so I think for the majority of business people, as most do not need Auto CAD, could get around nicely with this.. also the multi-touch interface is the killer for me over standard tablets.. rotate, stretch and zoom.. as for 3G, I am not sure its needed by me.. as most of my work on this would be at home, or on the Plane. I could tether it to my Phone if its Bluetooth supports DUN, but I am not holding my breath.. from work I already get free internet from WIFI from most providers.. my complaint.. no built in ISight..

Re:Extra things you'll need

[sopssa]

But will it support gprs too on places where 3G isn't available? It's something it really need to have.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[dkh2]

Skimpy storage space? You must be planning on running enterprise data storage on yours 'cause 64GB is about twice what I'm used to. For a portable device that augments a stationary workstation I figure 64GB is pretty generous.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[BodhiCat]

I hate to agree with a PC user, but that is what I see as lacking in the iPad; no useful text editor. Also no useful spreadsheets or web page editors, its only good for fun, can't do any real work on it, except answer e-mails. Maybe Apple didn't want to compete with its MacBooks, and so they didn't give this an OS X operating system, but if they had, then it would be the revolutionary device that all the hype was about.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[cheesybagel]

Actually I hated the 1st generation iPod. Firewire port. Expensive. Only thing it actually had going for it was the storage space. Really. The fact that Steve was able to leverage his media industry connections into supporting the iTunes store was probably the thing that saved it.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[meta-monkey]

If you watch the video, the word "work" is almost never used in the product demo, where the word "fun" is used 20+ times. This is not being marketed as a work device, it's being marketed as an entertainment appliance. Surf the web, read books, watch movies, play games, show pictures of your kids to your friends, etc. It looks like it will do all of those things very well, so I think it'll sell.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Atryn]

no useful text editor. Also no useful spreadsheets or web page editors

Assuming you've already sifted through the 140,000 apps and not found a text or spreadsheet editor, you could always use Google Docs and Spreadsheets...

No reason to use AT&T's 3G, just get an Overdrive with Sprint 3G/4G and use it with the WiFi version. Or for 3G only, a MiFi.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

I concur wholeheartedly with this posters post.

I've had a Tablet for ~ 7 years. (I know, yay for me you are thinking).

Anyway, PDF annotation, and OneNote are the two key things that rock on a Tablet. Well, being able to mark up PowerPoint presentations while you talk is also nice.

I've been waiting years for Apple to "do the Tablet right" - sadly, they haven't yet. Not running OSX makes it pretty much useless for University/Science/Business apps. Although I'm sure some new apps may come along, who knows.

Overall, I'm disapointed - looks like I'm staying in the PC world.

I had such hopes that St. Job would pull it off.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[MoonBuggy]

While I absolutely agree with you that the prices above the base seem exorbitant in comparison to the 'extra' parts you're getting, you're thinking of the prices in terms of construction, not marketing.

It's an annoyance, of course, but the simple fact is that Apple will have put an awful lot of effort into setting these prices: they don't want to sell for under $600 but marketing tells them that launching at less than $500 will hook the customers. Simple solution is to sell a base model at that price which fewer people will buy, but many will decide that they want. Once people have decided they want it and rationalised that they can afford it, it's much easier to upsell to the one that Apple intended on making all along, at the price they intended all along, by adding an extra $20 of hardware. Make them look at a $630 base unit and many people will write it off out of hand.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[pboyd2004]

... and so they didn't give this an OS X operating system, but if they had, then it would be the revolutionary device that all the hype was about.

I'm sure this will burn my karma... but how is a tablet form factor running the same OS as a desktop or laptop revolutionary? Didn't PC's do this years ago?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Cajun Hell]

If one of my computers already has an ethernet port, why would any of the others need one? Just get a digiboard and run RS232 cables to the other computers.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen! Its a fashion accessory for hipster fanboys. And people think women obsessing over guicci bags and prada shoes are somehow worse.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[mdwh2]

Does it have e-ink quality screen, with 10s of hours of use? No. As you say yourself, only 10 hours use. That's not an e-book reader. It's no more of an e-book reader than any netbook, tablet or phone. Let alone a "super" one.

What exactly is "super" about it anyway?

It's for eBooks, music, photos, the web and email and it's designed to do those tasks in a sleek, sexy, simple manner

Oh I see, just like every other portable device for donkeys years. Great, but please don't pretend it's anything new.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Jherico]

It looks like they jumped through an enormous number of hoops to ensure that you couldn't add memory to this device with things like micro-SD, specifically so they could do price hiking like this.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

So basically, we are talking $100 per 16GB of flash memory, when I could buy a 16GB USB dongle for any other device for $10 ???

Do you really think that's the same kind of flash with the same kind of performance?

Have you ever watched a video straight from a USB flash drive?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[mdwh2]

If they want tethering, let's hope they didn't get an Iphone too ;)

Re:Extra things you'll need

[vishbar]

Didn't we invade iRack?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[thepotoo]

These are my sentiments exactly, but remember that you and I are not the target audience here. Apple sells fashion accessories, not electronics. People will buy one of these (the most expensive one no doubt), just to impress their friends. Yes, there may be some people who genuinely need the features offered by this (although I cannot think what features these are off the top of my head), but the majority will be buying just for the sake of owning the latest and greatest.

P.S. If you ever build a time machine and happen to run into me circa 2001 deciding not to buy Apple stock because the iPod is an overpriced, locked down piece of crap that no one will ever buy, slap me. Hard.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Ma8thew]

It's called supply and demand. The price of components is irrelevant. Apple believe the market will bear their pricing structure, and they're probably right. The low end iPad is astonishingly cheap for the technology in it, so I suspect the margins on it are pretty poor. Apple's strategy is to lure people in with the low margin price, then convince people they need more storage and 3G to get up to a regular margin.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Wireless Joe]

And the $130 extra for 3G ? A lot of mobiles don't cost that, and have a hell of a lot more than 3G built in.

The mobiles don't cost that because they're subsidized (I'm assuming US here). The iPad's data is contract free, and so it basically contains an unsubsidized 3G card, and so costs more.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[cbhacking]

There are some apps that have tried to be an open source "like OneNote" but my experience has suggested that none are even close. The ability to import anything into your notes, the quality of the handwriting recognition, the simple but powerful UI, the lack of limitations on writing or annotation area... it's a damn good program, definitely one of *the* reasons to get a tablet PC.

Of course, it has to be an actual PC. This "too big to put in your pocket but doesn't actually run a desktop OS" device isn't going to run OneNote any time soon.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[okmijnuhb]

But can it run a spell checker?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[sopssa]

You US and your stupid contracts while buying device. Here in Europe you buy the device, then you ask your mobile operator to send you an extra SIM card so you can attach it to iPad in addition to your mobile phone and 3G usb device. All on same service contract and price.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[BodhiCat]

Well, it could be argued that Apple was the first with a tablet with the Newton, it was just before its time.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[rdwulfe]

This. This is exactly what I'd envisioned when e-readers and digital books were ever discussed.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

So it's shit designed for shit. That's what you're saying? On the flip side of what you claim people expect. Fanboys like you don't care if it came hardwired to play pong all day. You would just cry about how it's so awesome to carry an atari classic in your hands and that it's sleek and sexy. You guys are like a broken record. I hope old Jobs brings back Vinyl, then it will REALLY be the 2nd coming for Vinyl for every garbage eating hipster. This may be a troll but somebody had to say it.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[ColdWetDog]

Except that they've ported iWork to the iPad for $10 an app. Now, you can argue that iWork really isn't a business class software product but at least they mention the outside possibility that you can do something useful with it...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[IKnwThePiecesFt]

There was a whole section of the presentation about how iWork is available for the iPad for $9.99 an app.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Macka]

Welcome to the real world, where teams of marketing professionals set price points based on perceived value, at levels they believe the market will stand. This has nothing to do with the actual cost of components. The fact is that even at $829 the top of the range iPad is considerably cheaper than alternative tablet devices. The proposed price for the HP iSlate is around $1500, and that looks like a "load of crap" compared to this (that's a quote from my wife).

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Guy Harris]

Assuming you've already sifted through the 140,000 apps and not found a text or spreadsheet editor

For example, a text editor/word processor such as Pages or a spreadsheet such as Numbers?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Verminator]

Dear Europe:

You win.

You're better, and we suck.

We're closing up shop.

Sincerely,
The United States of America

P.S. You can now stop all shipments to us of your pricey cars and kitchen appliances.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[robosmurf]

Blu-ray full HD video tops out at 40 megabits a second. This is easily handled by any half-decent USB flash drive.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[dougisfunny]

But...but... but yours isn't an iPod, so it isn't as good.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

oh the irony...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Totenglocke]

$130 extra for 3G. Geez.

While it's a bit much, I understand the reasoning for it. For one, it probably allows them to have a lower price on the non-3G versions, thus helping to subsidize those. For another, it helps Apple make more of a profit off people who want the "always online" functionality. Come on, you can't tell me that you were expecting this device to cost WAY more than it does. $499 - $829 means that Apple isn't putting anywhere near as much of a markup as they normally do for an Apple product, and I applaud them for that.

My only real complaint with the device is that it doesn't allow for input with a stylus, so you can't just write on it to take notes.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

After today's Doonesbury, sorry, but I have to point out that yours doesn't make perfect paninis.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[catchblue22]

I'm not sure if the potential of this device is immediately apparent. Wait for a couple of years for the apps to be developed. I don't see any real reason why this device cannot outperform current tablet PC's. Firstly, what is to stop you from using a stylus? What is stopping application developers from creating apps that allow annotation of PDF files or that duplicate the functionality of "One Note". If the market demands such functionality, will the market not deliver it?

Furthermore, what makes you think that software such as "One Note" is anything but a niche market for certain professionals? And do you really need to be able to scribble ugly handwriting on the screen? Aren't there better ways of inputting text? I suppose the market will decide.

Anyways, my opinion is that this is an embryonic platform. Once HTML5 starts to take over, the Flash issue will be less of a concern. And with HTML5, you will be able to do things with a browser that you probably couldn't imagine.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Cassius Corodes]

I never understood this - its the same for the IPhone - are they using some kind of uber high quality SSD or is this where they make the money?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Culture20]

But...but... but yours isn't an iPod, so it isn't as good.

His can run iTunes natively. Who needs a tablet sized iPod? ;)

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

Sort of like wearing cynical tshirts that reference videogames and loudly talking about distros? Not to mention a silent interaction/acknowledgment system I like to refer to as "stenching"...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Tjp($)pjT]

$130 extra for 3G. Geez.

3G option also adds GPS. Not in the presentation by Jobs. You actually had to go look at the Apple site for the info. Much like other things in life, research can find more details. Here's to hoping it is A-GPS ala the iPhone where the assist is optional, not like cheaper things called a-gps where the cell tower does computations for the phone. And I wish they had made the SIM card slot a real SIM card slot. There is not much advantage to using the micro SIM form factor and it makes being unlocked semi-useless in other countries I frequent (well hey, the 3G is unlocked as well for that 130 dollars)

And as to the cost for storage, compare it to a SSD not a USB dongle or SD card. The cost to Apple is about 23$ per 32GB. And they will drive the profit margin lower on the 16GB model in order to have their average be where they want it (and consequently raise the margin on the high end). If you want SD card speeds they have a dongle for that.

Lastly I hope the camera connector is the one I have already for my iPod Photo ... Which is alas unsupported on current iPods and the iPhone devices of late ...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[dougisfunny]

People who don't want a Tablet computer, but rather an iPod Tablet?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[k2r]

> Not running OSX makes it pretty much useless for University/Science/Business apps.

It runs OSX and I guess that by demonstrating spreadsheet, wordprocessor and presentation software on i guess that means that it's perfectly capable of running "University/Science/Business apps."
Of course, only the stuff that you really want to run on a mobile device, it does not make sense to run your OLAP ON the tablet.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

My 3.5 year old Tablet PC has a 1.7Ghz Pentium M with 1GB RAM and is now running Windows 7.
It blows.

FTFY

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Hamsterdan]

My netbook runs XP, Linux and OSX. It has a non-reflective screen and can multitask.

The iPad doesnt' multitask, can't run plugins, and has a *I can see myself in the screen* screen.

Besides, it has an IPS screen, much too expensive since it doesn't have anti-glare. Give me a TN screen at a much lower price and anti-glare. We don't need IPS for a disposable device...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Kell Bengal]

When's the yard sale? I hear you have some shuttles going cheap. I want to get the launch equipment to go with it.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Concerned Onlooker]

For high speed memory? I'm thinking they're not that far off. Of course I'd expect a little gouge. Apple is not the only manufacturer to do that.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[justin12345]

While what you're saying is certainly true regarding the hype getting out of control, as an Apple Fanboy* I'll repeat here what I said to my business partner earlier today: even if they got everything else right, the fact that you can't run real OS X on it makes the thing worthless.

The other problem is, they didn't get anything else right. No GPS, no camera on the front so no video chat, no camera on the back so no augmented reality apps, uninspired industrial design, stupid name (I know they were going for the Star Trek reference, but came out more Maxi-pad), not enough storage to be a viable video player, no video out, and its too expensive for what is essentially an iPod touch for the visually impaired.

I've had my iPhone 3G since it came out and I've never gotten around to spending the hour or so of effort to jailbreak it, so I guess don't mind the iPhone being locked down. But that's because its just a phone. With a tablet I expect more. Specifically I expect it to run a real OS. Even if they got everything else right, for a tablet, no OS X is a deal breaker.

*To establish my Apple Fanboy cred: I personally have owned 4 Mac Laptops (the only major "Pro" or "Power" revision I missed was the TI Book, but I was still in college and had to settle for the first white iBook), I spent my teens using a NeXT Station Color, I have an iPod, I have no idea how to use Microsoft Windows, I have an iPod Nano, I have a white and a rainbow Apple sticker on the bumper of my car, I have an iPhone, and I run a business that uses nothing but Macs (except the servers which are FreeBSD).

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Cyberllama]

Meh, I guess if you see this as something set to infiltrate the business environment.

I'm seeing it missing a lot of things that *I* would want in a tablet.

Multi-tasking? I want to listen to pandora and browse the web while I lay on the couch, k?

I want Netflix/Hulu/Etc. I'm sorry, iTunes is not good enough. Throw in some actual codec support while you're at it.

With a real tablet I can do all these things, and maybe throw boxee on it to and use it as a HTPC when I'm not using it -- and you know what? I still haven't bought one, anyways. I can do so much more with a regular tablet PC and it's still not particularly compelling . .

I just finished watching the Official keynote from Apple's website and even Steve Jobs didn't seem very enthusiastic. He spoke slowly and constantly repeated himself, it was as if he was just filling time. He had a device that did stuff we've ALL already seen in the iPhone and yet went through feature by feature like we didn't already know how mobile safari or google maps worked. "It's the web in the palm of your hand" he exclaimed -- and I thought "Isn't that what my iPhone was and still is?"

It's just not an impressive device and even Steve Jobs couldn't make it seem like one. The whole thing sorta made me think I might want a tablet -- but *not* an iPad. I was sorta thinking "You know, I might like a windows 7 tablet to watch netflix in bed with . . . too bad this won't do that." In other words, I was more impressed by the features that were glaringly omitted than the ones that were included.

I will, however, say that I did find the 3g pricing to be mildly impressive. It left me wondering if you can activate a Sim with that price plan and then pop it into some other device . . .

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

Wow, Apple managed to invent the netbook only a couple years late for several hundred bucks more! Jobs' comments said that he wanted to establish a new class of device between smartphones and laptops. It's as though he was unaware that there's been such a category for years, and that it costs a lot less than $500, and that it doesn't lock you into one manufacturer's control so hard you can't even change the battery yourself.

Um, no. Apple's very aware of netbooks. They're also very aware that people don't want them. What they want is low cost and portable. Until now, netbooks were pretty much the only product to fit that bill.

Contrary to popular belief, people don't simply choose the cheapest item. If they did, there would only be one model of iPod, one model of HP notebook, etc. The iPad costs more than the base model of most netbooks, but it's also going to be exceptionally more useful for most people.

I'm highly confident that, placed side-by-side, people will prefer the iPad over any netbook. Specifications geeks, floss geeks, and people who need some particular program may choose the netbook, but the average person? Forget about it. The netbook is a dead end.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[good water]

iPod is going to sell like hot buns, even if you are not going to purchase it yourself you should rejoice that it's out there. It's going to "open up the market" and push forward the development of other ebook readers. Can't wait for what Amazon will [have to] follow this with! Let the war begin! We'll be the winners.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

Oh I see, just like every other portable device for donkeys years. Great, but please don't pretend it's anything new.

The thing that's new about it is that, unlike all those "donkey's years" products, this is the first one that doesn't outright suck.

Those other products (aside from the Kindle) are aimed at geeks. You're clearly a geek, and you can't seem to see past your own prejudices. And the Kindle is an excellent point to bring up. It's got the specs (specifically, e-ink and long battery life), but those specs are just ingredients into making it what it is, which is a great ebook reader. Unfortunately, that's *all* it's good at. Ignoring those two aspects for the moment, the iPad is going to be a far superior ebook reader for most people (some will prefer monochrome e-ink no matter what). When you throw battery and e-ink back into the mix, while these count in the Kindle's favor, most people are not going to find those things to be as important as you may think. Bright backlit color screen, fast and responsive UI, multitouch? Those alone will sway all but the most ardent ebook reader. Throw in the rest of the device (web, photos, email, music, video, maps, apps, etc.) and it's no contest.

It's not about making the cheapest product, or making the product with the greatest specs. It's about making products that people want to use. The former is a geek's game, and you're more than welcome to play it. The latter is a human's game. Notice how Apple doesn't like the amount of RAM in the iPad (or iPod or iPhone, for that matter)? It's not because it's so low that they want to hide it. It's because the amount of RAM is completely unimportant in terms of a feature point. It's no more important than the voltage of the battery or the chipset for the WiFi.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[cgenman]

Have you tried Evernote as a One Note replacement? Oddly enough, it has a native iPhone client which should work fine on the iPad (or the android, palm, winmobile, blackberry, windows, osx... sadly no Linux other than the web client). The iPhone has native exchange support, which works well for corporate e-mail.

Really the only missing link in the chain that you mentioned is annotating PDF files, which is something that I haven't looked into. Maybe an iPhone client exists for that? I don't know.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[k2r]

> Apple sells fashion accessories, not electronics

Ah, that's what Steve Jobs meant when he said that Microsoft had absolutely no style...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[babyrat]

The other problem is, they didn't get anything else right. No GPS, no camera on the front so no video chat, no camera on the back so no augmented reality apps, uninspired industrial design, stupid name (I know they were going for the Star Trek reference, but came out more Maxi-pad), not enough storage to be a viable video player, no video out, and its too expensive for what is essentially an iPod touch for the visually impaired.

I will agree with you and disagree too. They got very little right in technical terms. They got everything right in the backwards Apple marketing thing they do so well.

People will buy this (not me, I waited in eager anticipation for the announcement, was disappointed and immediately bought an T91MT - I personally was wanting a tabletted version of the macbook, not an enlarged version of the an iPod Touch). Then, in a year, those people will toss theirs and buy the new iPad with a camera in the back, and GPS. Then in another year, they will buy the next one with increased resolution and a second camera in the back. and so on, just like the iPhone 2g,3g and 3gs. And meanwhile they'll a variety of cables (sync, video, camera connect etc) from apple for nothing less than $19 each.

Or perhaps no-one will buy them and they'll turn into a macbook Air or AppleTV...neat but never a bestseller.

*I too am an avid Apple User - iPods, iPhone 3G, macbook and mac mini - but no bumper sticker :(

Re:Extra things you'll need

[smash]

I think you underestimate how many people are willing to use the app store to make it useful. If you can do spreadsheets on it, plenty will find it useful for downtime whilst on the plane...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[babyrat]

Please post where I can buy a touch screen tablet (not pen) for that price (I have been searching and it may change my mind)

asus t91mt. multi touch tablet (with or without pen) under $500 at newegg. I suspect by the time iPad is released, there will be many more as many have already been shown at CES.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[babyrat]

does it have USB connectivity?

no

Re:Extra things you'll need

[snowgirl]

I was going to post the chinese characters for this, but then I realized that Slashdot is going to mangle my non-ASCII7 input...

So, instead, I write here in pinyin:

wo shi yi ge yu chun di mei guo ren.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[David Jao]

Apple's very aware of netbooks. They're also very aware that people don't want them.

If people don't want netbooks, then why do they buy netbooks? Are you suggesting that people are somehow buying netbooks against their will?

What they want is low cost and portable. Until now, netbooks were pretty much the only product to fit that bill.

Is there some reason why Apple waited until now to make low-cost portables?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[GauteL]

"If people don't want netbooks, then why do they buy netbooks [netbookchoice.com]? Are you suggesting that people are somehow buying netbooks against their will?"

Did you stop reading his post early on purpose? If you finish the paragraph you quoted you will see that he has already answered your question:

"What they want is low cost and portable. Until now, netbooks were pretty much the only product to fit that bill."

He has an excellent point. People haven't had a choice before if they wanted something portable and cheap.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Calinous]

Not to rain on your parade, but...
e-ink is much better in direct sunlight than backlit screens (especially if they are shiny)

Re:Extra things you'll need

[David Jao]

Did you stop reading his post early on purpose?

No, but you stopped reading my post early on purpose.

If you finish the paragraph you quoted you will see that he has already answered your question:

"What they want is low cost and portable. Until now, netbooks were pretty much the only product to fit that bill."

He has an excellent point.

Yes, and if you had finished reading my post you would have seen that I quoted that "answer" too. But this quote doesn't answer the question of why netbooks sell. If low-cost portable devices are in such obvious demand, then why did everyone (including Apple) ignore this market segment until netbooks came out?

People haven't had a choice before if they wanted something portable and cheap.

Why are manufacturers not providing that choice? As far as I can tell, Apple doesn't provide that choice (or didn't prior to the iPad) because "people don't want them", which is circular reasoning.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[VShael]

We're closing up shop.

You'll close up shop when China TELLS YOU you can close up shop.

And not a minute before.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Briareos]

I hate to agree with a PC user, but that is what I see as lacking in the iPad; no useful text editor.

I'm sure the release of the viPad is just a bit further down the road...

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Dilaudid]

hehe where are the mod points when I need them?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[jecblackpepper]

But if they are on a plane travelling for business then they're pretty likely to have a laptop to do any spreadsheet crunching; if you've got to have a laptop for that then you'll use the laptop for those jobs since it will still be much easier to use a keyboard for that type of business work. The iPad is only good for those types of travellers where it can be a replacement for their laptop and at the moment I don't see that - I could well be wrong, and I certainly don't downplay the effect that hype will have on people.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[nick.cash]

Apple has always over-charged for upgrades when you buy from them. Every time I buy a Mac, I always immediately upgrade the RAM (which it generally needs), but with memory from a different vendor for far far less.

But those sneaky bastards have found a way to close that loophole. By having non-upgradeable components, you can't avoid paying their exorbitant upgrade costs (short of hardware hacking...which, however cool, is not practical). So iPod, iPhones and now iPads have drastically different price points for what amounts to an extra dirt-cheap memory chip being added.

This is partially why I have an android phone, and partially why I love having one... I can always upgrade the SD card, and prices on those things seem to fall monthly. Every time I fill it up, I buy a new one that's twice the size of the one I have, for less than I paid for the smaller one... and then sell my old card to some grumpy blackberry user.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

wo shi yi ge yu chun di mei guo ren

If anyone is wondering, its Chinese for "Translate Server Error."

Re:Extra things you'll need

[smash]

When flying economy (sometime the only option in remote places) laptops are too big to use on the plane.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

I think many people on slashdot are missing the point. Like this guy point out blog This is a great device for people who want to consume information, not produce it. Sure, it might not have flash, but is Flash the future?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[dave420]

Why compare it to an SSD? It's not an SSD. It's just basic USB-based storage, just like a dongle. There's no way Apple can get SSD-quality storage for $23 per 32GB.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

Not to rain on your parade, but...
e-ink is much better in direct sunlight than backlit screens (especially if they are shiny)

Not to rain on your parade, but you can turn away from the sun with an LCD, you can't turn towards a light in the dark with an e-ink display.

In more practical terms, my iPhone does just fine in the outdoors.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

Apple's very aware of netbooks. They're also very aware that people don't want them.

If people don't want netbooks, then why do they buy netbooks? Are you suggesting that people are somehow buying netbooks against their will?

Your questions are strange. You seem to answer it with your quoting below. People don't want netbooks, they want portable, cheap computers. Until now, netbooks were pretty much it, so that's what the only thing that fits the bill. But it's not the netbook they wanted, it's the cheap portable they want.

It's like someone dying of thirst drinking from a mud hole. They don't want mud. They want water. Mud happens to fit the bill, but it's far from ideal. But if it's the only thing there...

What they want is low cost and portable. Until now, netbooks were pretty much the only product to fit that bill.

Is there some reason why Apple waited until now to make low-cost portables?

Again, I don't understand. Obviously the answer is yes. For everything that happens, there has to be a reason.

If what you're really asking is, "what is the reason", it's three-fold.

1. Apple likes to be sure there's a market for something before releasing it. Netbooks have shown there's a market for cheap and small.
2. iPads (or any product, for that matter) don't instantly materialize the moment you decide to create one. It takes a long time to make something like that, even if you do it poorly, which brings us to...
3. Apple puts a lot of effort into getting their products right on the first go. There's not a series of iterations of, "we'll try this, then we'll try that, then we'll try that". It's, "we think this product is a perfect embodiment of the market we are targeting". They surely do provide updates, and have practical considerations (i.e., 2G iPhone at first, 3G later), but this basic idea is evident in what they do.

So yeah, of course there's a reason. How could there not be?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[David Jao]

Apple likes to be sure there's a market for something before releasing it. Netbooks have shown there's a market for cheap and small.

In that case, thank god for netbooks. Otherwise Apple never would have acknowledged the market for cheap small computers. And if every company behaved like Apple, no new market niches would ever be supplied.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[aslate]

Wait for a couple of years for the apps to be developed.

But current Tablet PCs do so much already! With the kick of "Apple's doing one" we've got some innovation finally, they'll get as cool as the Apple one but be a fully fledged multitasking OS to boot.

Firstly, what is to stop you from using a stylus?

Somewhere to keep it!

What is stopping application developers from creating apps that allow annotation of PDF files or that duplicate the functionality of "One Note". If the market demands such functionality, will the market not deliver it?

As you said, they will but it will take time.

Furthermore, what makes you think that software such as "One Note" is anything but a niche market for certain professionals? And do you really need to be able to scribble ugly handwriting on the screen? Aren't there better ways of inputting text? I suppose the market will decide.

I agree, a decent touch on-screen keyboard is a good idea that should be used on other systems. The correction is really good too. It is faster than using a pen, but with the auto-completing browsers and search by keying one or two characters will be just as quick with the pen. Don't forget that doing sketches, diagrams and mixing writing with text (think notes, maths work) is a very useful part of the pen's function.

Anyways, my opinion is that this is an embryonic platform. Once HTML5 starts to take over, the Flash issue will be less of a concern. And with HTML5, you will be able to do things with a browser that you probably couldn't imagine.

HTML 5 based apps, and therefore cross platform, would be a really good launchpad. But with the Apple iStore interface behind their core product lines now i can see plenty of iPhone OS-only based apps.

Will it flop? Not completely, there is a market. But this doesn't innovate, it's not the magical grand leap forwards they want us to believe and it won't be massively popular. It will sell well, but it's not going to be a major line.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

Apple likes to be sure there's a market for something before releasing it. Netbooks have shown there's a market for cheap and small.

In that case, thank god for netbooks. Otherwise Apple never would have acknowledged the market for cheap small computers. And if every company behaved like Apple, no new market niches would ever be supplied.

You're still not understanding.

IT'S NOT NETBOOKS PER SE.

That means, it's not netbooks themselves. They are just a placeholder that could have been anything. There could have been no netbooks at all and even no middle-ground computers at all. All that was needed is for Apple to see that there's an actual market for the product.

Apple has been working on a tablet form factor since the '80s. They created that market with the Newton. Apple's recent tablet research pre-dates the netbook.

But until the iPhone OS, Apple didn't have the technology in place to create one that wasn't just a crappy MacBook.

So it's not the netbook. People aren't buying the netbook per se. They are buying a product in that category. And until yesterday, the only product that remotely filled that need was the netbook.

The point isn't that there had to be a netbook before an iPad. It's just that there *was* the netbook before the iPad.

But the iPad is no netbook, and that's both why it'll succeed, and why the geek patrol on the net is lambasting it.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[David Jao]

Look, you're contradicting yourself. Either netbooks were a factor in Apple's decision to introduce the iPad, or they were not a factor. It is mathematically impossible for neither statement to hold.

If netbooks were a factor in iPad development, then this statement of yours:

That means, it's not netbooks themselves. They are just a placeholder that could have been anything. There could have been no netbooks at all and even no middle-ground computers at all. All that was needed is for Apple to see that there's an actual market for the product.

is false, since the content of your statement is that events would have transpired in the same fashion even had there been no netbooks at all.

On the other hand, if netbooks had zero impact on the development of the iPad, then this statement of yours:

Apple likes to be sure there's a market for something before releasing it. Netbooks have shown there's a market for cheap and small.

is false, since the content of your statement is precisely that netbooks played a role in Apple's release.

Which is it?

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

Look, you're contradicting yourself. Either netbooks were a factor in Apple's decision to introduce the iPad, or they were not a factor. It is mathematically impossible for neither [sic] statement to hold.

I didn't make a mathematical statement. If you are having problems with my statements in a mathematical sense, the problem is your translation from English to logic.

To paraphrase the two statements of mine you quoted:

1. Netbooks provided an example for Apple to look at.
2. iPad would have existed without netbooks.

It is by no means "mathematically impossible for both statements to hold."

Re:Extra things you'll need

[David Jao]

I didn't make a mathematical statement. If you are having problems with my statements in a mathematical sense, the problem is your translation from English to logic.

Even in plain English, the statements "X" or "not X" cannot both hold, no matter what X is. Indeed, exactly one of the two is always true.

If your argument is that your English is incapable of being translated into logic, then I am done with this discussion. I require logic as a condition of participating in a debate.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

Even in plain English, the statements "X" or "not X" cannot both hold, no matter what X is. Indeed, exactly one of the two is always true.

I didn't say "X" and then later, "Not X".

I stated (again):

1. Netbooks provided an example for Apple to look at.
2. iPad would have existed without netbooks.

#2 is not "Not #1".

If your argument is that your English is incapable of being translated into logic, then I am done with this discussion. I require logic as a condition of participating in a debate.

No, my argument is that your attempt to translate my English into logic was flawed.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[David Jao]

I didn't say "X" and then later, "Not X".

But I did. Let X be the statement "netbooks were a factor in Apple's decision to introduce the iPad." Then exactly one of "X" or "not X" is true. No matter which one is true, you made a statement that contradicts the one of these two which is true.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[CubicleView]

I know, it sucks that I can't use my kindle as a sun shade and read it at the same time.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

I didn't say "X" and then later, "Not X".

But I did. Let X be the statement "netbooks were a factor in Apple's decision to introduce the iPad." Then exactly one of "X" or "not X" is true. No matter which one is true, you made a statement that contradicts the one of these two which is true.

Just so I'm clear, I said X. I later said Y. Then you come along and say "Not X" and demand I defend why *I* contradicted X?

You said, "Look, you're contradicting yourself." Then went through the whole X, Not X thing.

So, unless you can explain this colossal pile of nonsense, I'll assume you've conceded the point and are just throwing crap out there in order to confuse things and hide the fact that you've long since given up on trying to make an honest point that's either factually or logically sound.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[David Jao]

Just so I'm clear, I said X. I later said Y. Then you come along and say "Not X" and demand I defend why *I* contradicted X?

Your reading skills are poor. You asserted Y and Z. "X" implies "not Y". "not X" implies "not Z". Therefore you can't be right.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[node 3]

Your reading skills are poor.

As I've stated many times:

1. Netbooks provided an example for Apple to look at.
2. iPad would have existed without netbooks.

If it's *my* reading skills that are poor, please explain how both 1 and 2 cannot both be true.

You asserted Y and Z. "X" implies "not Y". "not X" implies "not Z". Therefore you can't be right.

Your attempt at logical obfuscation does nothing to alter the fact that what I wrote above is not contradictory. Given that, the only logical conclusion is that your attempt to rephrase what I wrote into logical statements and/or your applied logic is flawed.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you say "e-ink" and "quality screen" in the same breath? The current e-ink screens suck. You want a device that does greyscale with a 2s page load time that can't do even basic animation? Maybe you're still excited about the advent of flipbooks too?

What exactly is "super" about it anyway?

He called it a super eBook reader. For a little more than the books-only e-book readers, it has a full color screen and does music, movies, web surfing, photos. It's just as locked down, but then it also has excellent apps to begin with, so it's not something the vast majority of people care about.

It's obvious you're not really this dense, you're just trolling because you have some dozen-year-old prejudice against Apple and refuse to even consider the merits of their products.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Anonymous Coward]

People buy netbooks in the same way we bought MP3 players before the iPod. There is no real netbook market yet, and there might never be. Certainly not in the current '8" QWERTY keyboard laptop' sense.

The iPad will most likely create a substantial tablet/netbook market (including competitors), just as the iPod did, and just as the iPhone has created a market for touchscreen multimedia phones.

The latter market is still clumsily attempting to knockoff the iPhone, but the attempts are getting better, especially with the latest Android models. Even if you hate Apple and will never buy an Apple product, you'll still benefit greatly from their pushing technology forward.

Pretend it's because Apple users are stupid and Steve Jobs mesmerizes them if you honestly can't figure out the things Apple is doing so much better than its competitors. The tech world is better off with Apple popularizing these new technologies with the masses either way.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[lennier]

an overpriced, locked down piece of crap that no one will ever buy

Two out of three ain't bad.

Re:Extra things you'll need

[Tjp($)pjT]

On the contrary. That is the parts cost. Manufacturing, etc. is not included. Not even the PCB it sits on. Current SSD prices are overinflated compared to other media because it is in a low uptake environment. The solid state memory on the iPhone, and presumably iPad will be as well, are the same tech for the chips built into the SSD devices. If you could ship 75 million 32GB SSDs your BOM cost for the memory would be around 23 bucks too. That is how many iPod Touches and iPhones are out there. The Nano iPod used a different controller architecture before this last version, but the latest iPod Nano is up at the SSD level controller tech as well. Similar logic to scatter gather writes, and remap, for wear leveling is the only difference and that is in the controller of the SSD not the memory chips themselves. If you look at the throughput of the memory reads and writes for the iPhone it is considerably faster than the low end USB dongles by a wide margin. I am not sure why you compare it to USB dongles with the SoC addresses it directly as a parallel path not serialized. Just because the device has a USB connection doesn't mean the memory internally is anything close to related to a serially addressed slow as a dog USB dongle.

New app website

[Anonymous Coward]

Maximum iPad. No confusion, whatsoever. Guess the URL.

yak, itunes

[Joe U]

Itunes for Windows, the realplayer of the late 2000's.

Seriously, to sync an ipod, I need how many running apps and services? And a new network protocol, sure, why not.

Itunes lives in a VM in my house.

Re:yak, itunes

[BitZtream]

Aren't you special. If you hate iTunes so much, why do you use it? Why get a device thats tied to something you hate so much?

Finally ... you're complaining about the number of services running? You know they just idle and are swapped out any time your not syncing, right? Its not like they sit there eating away ram and processing power. I'm sure you have plenty of other retarded services that do the same thing on your Windows machines. Do you bitch about the Windows Error Reporting service too?

Re:yak, itunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, to sync an ipod, I need how many running apps and services? And a new network protocol, sure, why not.

True, I hate when installers add services for stuff less than half of the people use. I remember that they have an iPod / iPhone sync service, some audio (playable on old-stereos) CD burning helper service, Bonjour (network inter-connectivity and network bookmark and printer sharing) and a separate service for that wireless speaker thing --not very sure about that last one.

For the home user with just 1 PC, and no iPod / iPhone or need to create audio CD's these are uselessly eating resources. Inter-bundling of apps sucks too: if my wife installs Safari on the living room PC, she's bundling quicktime and iTunes by default. If each of those installs a special system service, the computer ends with crud that I never needed for the purpose of web-browsing.

Apple is not the only one doing this crap. I have seen a comeback in an old OEM trend to include checker / installer apps and plugins that run in the background. Google, Apple, Yahoo, Toshiba, Adobe... they either have installer services running, or force you to accept some download "plugin" or full EXE just to obscure and control the install process for their products and prevent seamless redistribution.

For small office or lab environments with macs to have functionality for the day they might need it, packing services on PC's to get around inconvenient API's is good, but I prefer speed. I don't get why apps can't just go 'it looks like you want to checks this for viruses from your browser, so let's download that for you know if you meant to.' Non-default help works for Ubuntu's restricted drivers and codecs. The command line doesn't download, but gives you the verbatim command on how to install 'emacs' because they prefer assisting for stuff that is efficient not to bundle and install by default.

Re:yak, itunes

[Joe U]

Aren't you special. If you hate iTunes so much, why do you use it? Why get a device thats tied to something you hate so much?

My wife got an ipod touch as a gift. So, short of me saying: No way will I re-install any appple crapware on the computer, we decided a virtual machine would be a fine place for apple to install quicktime, itunes, bonjour and whatever other crap it needs to SYNC A FUCKING OVERHYPED MUSIC PLAYER.

Finally ... you're complaining about the number of services running? You know they just idle and are swapped out any time your not syncing, right? Its not like they sit there eating away ram and processing power. I'm sure you have plenty of other retarded services that do the same thing on your Windows machines. Do you bitch about the Windows Error Reporting service too?

Spoken like someone who never had issues with services. Especially when they all start fighting for the same resources. And yes, I do turn off unneeded services because even idle they are eating ram and processing power and if they're not needed, I don't want or need them running.

Also, why would I ever want to add a possible attack vector to my system? Apple software for Windows is written pretty horribly, I have no idea how many holes are lurking in there. Simply, I do not trust Apple as a developer.

So, yes, iTunes sucks, keep it away from me.

Re:yak, itunes

[amicusNYCL]

Itunes for Windows, the realplayer of the late 2000's.

Jesus Christ, how long have I been asleep?

Re:yak, itunes

[Merls the Sneaky]

Itunes is banished from my house. So are all Apple and Sony products.

Re:yak, itunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you bitch about the Windows Error Reporting service too?

The Windows Error Reporting service doesn't look and act like it was written by someone who learned how to program using the 'writing application services for dummies' book.

Re:Wifi tethering with Android or Nokia, of course

[Mindjiver]

You can use this as a mobile device by tethering it over Wifi to an Android or Noikia device.

So I need a phone, which already does most of what this thing does, before I can use it on the subway?

One heckuva phone!

[serviscope_minor]

That is one heckuva phone. It's nearly the size of a DynaTAC.

Slate this!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes! It's not called iSlate - Ballmer' going be throwing chairs at this one. Not only does
he look like he's been manipulated, it's also shown MS up to be even more of a bunch
of iWannaBe's than we ever realised.

And it's using Apple's own CPU - so no Windows running on this puppy I guess,
but it does give Apple more leverage for locking it down ...

Hmm

[Tobor the Eighth Man]

My biggest problem with this is that it seems to be locked into the app store, just like the iPhone. In that sense, it does LESS than a netbook. Not saying this won't be successful, since Apple is nothing if not great at marketing consumer electronics, but what does this do for me task-wise that I can't do on a netbook? It's especially funny because, if you noticed, one of Jobs's slides touted PC software as a downside to netbooks. From where I stand, the huge open architecture of the PC is preferable to a tightly controlled store.

Re:Hmm

[DragonWriter]

My biggest problem with this is that it seems to be locked into the app store, just like the iPhone. In that sense, it does LESS than a netbook. Not saying this won't be successful, since Apple is nothing if not great at marketing consumer electronics, but what does this do for me task-wise that I can't do on a netbook?

Its a convergence device. As such, its designed to be a better netbook than the Kindle DX, a better eReader than an EeePC, and a better portable media player than either.

Its not a better netbook than a dedicated netbook, or a better eReader than a dedicated reader (though, of course, Apple will try to sell it as being better in both these roles than the existing competition.) And maybe not a better portable media player for most uses than an iPod Touch. But Apple's bet is that the perceived price/utility it will provide is better than any of dedicated readers/netbooks because it does a good enough job in all three roles to be a one-stop multirole device.

Re:Hmm

[Tobor the Eighth Man]

Of course.

I think the best argument advantage is the ereader function, especially with most commercial ereaders still being fairly expensive. The entry level iPad is almost at a competitive price vs. buying a Kindle DX even at inflated 1st gen Apple product prices, and it inarguably does far more than a Kindle does. The Kindle absolutely does not do the majority of what this does; I think the netbook/media player aspects are less compelling, but certainly bolster the case.

Re:Hmm

[MistrBlank]

AppleTV is a better convergence device in my opinion.

Re:Hmm

[Myopic]

Are you saying that you have a netbook that can install third-party apps AND can get apps from the App Store? Wow, what netbook is that?

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

From now on, like it or not, all mobile devices will be compared to iPhone, iPod, and iPad. Any time anybody releases a new mobile product or even upgrades their mobile OS slightly, Apple will be mentioned. Apple's mindshare is going to snowball even more rapidly as a result.

Lots of these posts are nitpicks about missing features. Apple will add those features if they make sense, over time. The big picture isn't a checklist of hardware components and software options. It's the experience, not the specs, that will drive sales. Ease of use is a huge part of that experience, as is performance and battery life.

Oh, and one more thing. $499 for the base model is going to put the hurt on all those e-waste-netbook makers out there in Crapgadget Land. They'll be forced to cut even more corners. They'll be pushing each other off the low-margin cliff with even more urgency now. Because they're all generic commoditized appliances and they can only compete on price. Good riddance.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but if it is locked into the app store, it is not just a bad netbook, it is nothing like a netbook.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet, as a convergence device, it falls short in several key areas: no multitasking, NO CAMERA for goodness sake (does it even have a microphone?), no usb or card reader (though there is an add-on for that). Oh yeah, and NO CAMERA! That's just craptastic.

Re:Hmm

[cgenman]

I think Apple's bet is that the reward of creating a new device class like the iPod or the iPhone is worth the development cost of a few duds like the Apple TV and Newton.

This is a risk. A big risk. If it didn't look like a risk, everyone else would have done it already, and there wouldn't be any potential payoff for risking going into the market.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

We're all very glad you had the time travel ability to go forward, get one of each, and compare them all side by side, in the real world, for an extended period of time.

Then return here and give us the results.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

well said. Personally, I don't need such a device, but yes, that is the angle I guess.

Intellectual property and the Singularity

[Singularity42]

The iPad is going to be chained by "intellectual property"--there's no doubt. Will it take the Singularity to blow everything away to get beyond IP?

Maybe Apple will make enough to fund the Singularity--iSingularity.

Premature

[Bogtha]

Steve Jobs is still on stage in the middle of announcing this thing. Couldn't the Slashdot article have waited until they've finished announcing all of the features?

Re:Premature

[Fahrvergnuugen]

It's more fun this way. Now we have a bunch of "no keyboard! FAIL!! +5 insightful" posts to sift through, since they held off showing the physical keyboard until the end.

Re:Premature

[mevets]

You must be new here. Its not like people will check their WAGs before posting. This discussion could have happened yesterday.

Re:Premature

[grouchomarxist]

Yo, the /. crowd is all about being premature. I mean...uh.

The A4 processor..

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

The A4 processor. Sounds like a sheet of paper!

Re:The A4 processor..

[JackDW]

Sounds like a close relative of the ARM Cortex-A8 and Cortex-A9: the line of ARM CPUs specifically intended to run end-user applications rather than embedded control software.

On a related topic, people who pray for the end of x86 should be careful what they wish for, because their desire brings completely closed platforms and proprietary app stores. There is one reason why you can install software on your Windows machine without a "developer key" or Microsoft's explicit approval, and that reason is backwards compatibility.

Re:The A4 processor..

[gmuslera]

At least isnt a piece of sheet.

Re:The A4 processor..

[cptnapalm]

So we will go from having to have a particular OS on a particular architecture with a lot of DRM to having to have a particular OS on a particular architecture with all DRM? Not exactly a huge shift.

Re:The A4 processor..

[Bill_the_Engineer]

On a related topic, people who pray for the end of x86 should be careful what they wish for, because their desire brings completely closed platforms and proprietary app stores. There is one reason why you can install software on your Windows machine without a "developer key" or Microsoft's explicit approval, and that reason is backwards compatibility.

yea, because we can't possibly be able to write programs for the ARM CPU. Oh wait, we can...

Of course we couldn't run linux on an ARM CPU. Oh wait, we can... Ubuntu on ARM

Oh I guess you must be mistaken.

Re:The A4 processor..

[molecular]

The A4 processor. Sounds like a sheet of paper!

Yeah, and for next iteration, the will just fold it in the middle: half as big, but 2 cores now, same power and still the golden ratio! Ingenious!

Re:The A4 processor..

[JackDW]

That's pretty rude, Bill_the_Engineer. I'm not sure anyone on this site is unaware that compilers and Linux distributions exist for ARM-based platforms. However, you have given me an opportunity to re-iterate the point I was making.

The point is that when a non x86 based system is designed, built and sold, there is a break with backwards compatibility at the binary level. This is both good and bad. Good, because it provides an opportunity to get rid of legacy cruft, no longer required by modern applications. Bad, because it provides an opportunity to lock the system down with DRM. Users do not expect that their old applications will continue to work on the new platform because there is no backward compatibility: the new platform is not a PC.

The obvious example is the iPhone, but I'm not going to bash Apple on apple.slashdot.org when I can pick on Microsoft. So, consider the XBox 360. It's not a PC. This is a good thing, because it makes the hardware cheaper and the software more efficient. However, it is also a bad thing, because no compatibility with Windows and DOS applications is expected by the users. "Not being a PC" gives Microsoft the opportunity to control the admission of applications to the platform, through XBox Live and the approval process for games sold on disc. The price of getting rid of the legacy cruft of the PC is that you also lose one legacy feature that really really matters: the lack of DRM.

Sometimes legacy compatibility is a very good thing. Microsoft may want to Tivoise the PC platform, but they can't do it. It would break too many old applications. We may complain that AMD64 CPUs "needlessly" support the 8086 real mode just in case someone still wants to boot DOS and run Wordstar, but the very fact that you can boot DOS means that you can boot anything. It's not a flaw but a feature of immeasurable value.

Re:The A4 processor..

[hirschma]

Sounds like a close relative of the ARM Cortex-A8 and Cortex-A9 Says who? You're probably right, but why can't it be a PPC CPU - which was PA Semi's expertise before they got bought by Apple (low power, high performance PPC CPUs). Seems that OSX and derivatives are pretty portable. Does anyone actually know what the iCPU's instruction set is? Which graphics core that they're using? Any other particulars?

Re:The A4 processor..

[JackDW]

Why not indeed. The PPC architecture is very nice, and at one time there were some pretty cool SoCs from PA Semi. I assume ARM only because of the name and number scheme and because of the iPhone's CPU.

Re:The A4 processor..

[Froggie]

The point is that when a non x86 based system is designed, built and sold, there is a break with backwards compatibility at the binary level.

So, consider the XBox 360.

Of course, the Xbox is an x86 based system. But don't let that get in the way of your reasoning.

Re:The A4 processor..

[Froggie]

Did PA design their cores, or license them?

Re:The A4 processor..

[Bill_the_Engineer]

The point is that when a non x86 based system is designed, built and sold, there is a break with backwards compatibility at the binary level.

Apple users said the same thing when Apple switched from the Apple II series (MOS 6502) to the Macintosh (Motorola 68000 ). They repeated their argument when Apple switched from the Motorola 68000 series CPU to the PowerPC CPU. They said it yet again when Apple switched from the PowerPC CPU to the Intel CPU.

Apple users weren't the only ones. Commodore 64 and Atari 400/800 users said the same thing when they had to leave their dying MOS 6502 CPU based system, and switch to the Amiga (Motorola 68000 series), Atari ST (Motorola 68000 series), or the multiple IBM PC clones (Intel x86).

My point being that switching CPU architectures are a sign of a industry/market evolving to take advantage of any advances in the newest designs. Or in the case of Apple's last transition, the market realities of Intel dominance. The legacy software argument are what CPU manufacturers use to cling to their customers who don't see any advantage from changing from what they currently have.

The main reason that Intel dominates in the small computer market is because they formed an alliance with Microsoft. Intel is safe as long as Microsoft developed most of its products for the x86 platform. Microsoft also recognized that if they did leave the Intel platform, they would lose their incredible advantage since they pretty much shut out most of their competitors in the Intel arena. I'll hazard a guess that Microsoft wouldn't be able to repeat some of their tactics to capture a new market, and they know this. This is probably why Microsoft is worried about the industry's move to appliances and "cloud" computing.

Anyway, when it comes to other CPUs, there are general purpose boards available for most any processor out there. You can find these by googling for 'ARM', 'PPC', etc.

You are blaming a CPU architecture for the actions of a hardware manufacturer. The hardware manufacturer can lock-down any platform at the ROM/Bootstrap level.

Re:The A4 processor..

[JackDW]

1. The XBox 360, the subject of my post, is not an x86-based system.

2. The XBox is x86-based, but not a PC, as the system architecture is quite different.

3. I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make.

Re:The A4 processor..

[JackDW]

Thankyou for replying. What you say does make sense and is correct but I still think you are missing the point I'm trying to make.

I do not blame any CPU architecture for anything. Rather I say that maintaining direct hardware compatibility with an old, established architecture prevents a lock-down, since such a lock-down would break older software. In this sense, backwards compatibility is highly desirable.

A transition to a new, incompatible architecture provides a possibility for lock-down. Especially if the old applications can now only be run in an emulation environment, as in PPC code on x86, or M68K code on PPC.

I am glad that Microsoft does not have much control of emerging platforms. Competition is good. What is not good is the new platforms often have something worse than Windows: software ecosystems that are heavily locked down - app stores, central approval of applications, royalties. This would not be possible if the new platforms were PC compatible, because PC compatible means "able to load your old applications".

Re:The A4 processor..

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, you're right on the CPU in the 360 and I apologise, I clearly misremembered.

But what was getting to me was your generalisation that reads as if it's necessary to change CPU to lock down an architecture. I think it's the other way around - you need to create a new system to add in DRM, and that creation gives you the ability to choose a new architecture.

I don't think people design a system on the basis thatt "we'd better not use x86 in our system because people will expect us to run popular x86 programs."

Re:The A4 processor..

[JackDW]

I don't think people design a system on the basis thatt "we'd better not use x86 in our system because people will expect us to run popular x86 programs."

Yeah, I basically agree with you, especially with this bit. The thing is not so much x86 compatibility but PC compatibility. If the new system is PC compatible, then that's a good thing, because the compatibility requirement strongly limits the possibility for lock-down. That's what I'm getting at.

Re:The A4 processor..

[Anonymous Coward]

ARM is at least as open (or even more) than X86. The CPU manual (the thing you need to program in assembler) is freely available, and they sell (non exclusive) rights to manufacture the chips to anybody (contrast X86, where the only companies that has those rights are Intel and AMD, and AMD had to fight in court to get those rights). The open platform you are thinking of is PC (and Microsoft et al are trying to close it with TPM), but even then there are ARM-based platforms where you can at least run whatever software you want.

The only truly 100% open CPU I know of is OpenSPARC, but there are probably more around

Where have I seen this before?

[CSMatt]

Oh yeah. Now I remember.

Re:Where have I seen this before?

[masmullin]

did you mean to say iRemember?

yeapers

[NetNinja]

IPaid to Much!

beowulf?

[achten]

I wonder if ...

A4...

[Singularity42]

It's some form of ARM, right? When is someone going to do something cool that isn't ARM or x86?

Re:A4...

[Froggie]

Uh, 1992? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Alpha

This fits squarely in the category of "meh"

[SwabTheDeck]

I have both an iPhone and a MacBook and I use and love both everyday. However, I've never thought to myself, "how great would it be to have a 10-inch iPhone?" After watching the live coverage for the last hour, that's basically all this is. The OS and UI are basically the same, just upscaled and optimized in some places for the larger screen. As far as I can tell, there are none of the clever innovations that are typically present in a new Apple product. The only people that I can see this thing appealing to would be people that have a strong fascination for touch screens and people that don't feel that they can properly lounge about with a laptop (as exemplified by Steve Jobs lounging in a love seat during the presentation). I think the only obvious application would be as an ebook reader (side note: I nearly had a fit when they decided to reuse the term iBook to brand their ebooks). The presentation still isn't done so there isn't a word on price, but if it can't come within range of the Kindle and similar devices, I'd say this thing is purely novelty.

Re:This fits squarely in the category of "meh"

[Nukenbar]

At least your iPhone has a always (usually) present internet connection. Without 3G or whatever, this is just a big iTouch.

Also, 10 hour battery? Maybe only playing music.

Re:This fits squarely in the category of "meh"

[Nukenbar]

Guess I spoke too soon. Micro GSM cards? I guess I can't just lug in my AT&T card and use my free wireless internet that way.

Re:This fits squarely in the category of "meh"

[commodoresloat]

I've never thought to myself, "how great would it be to have a 10-inch iPhone?" After watching the live coverage for the last hour, that's basically all this is.

Yes, but imagine watching the live coverage on a 10-inch iPhone!

Re:This fits squarely in the category of "meh"

[nyctopterus]

I have an iPod Touch. I have always thought I wanted a 10-inch iPod Touch, because I use it for web browsing and eBook reading.

Re:This fits squarely in the category of "meh"

[Not_Wiggins]

I have both an iPhone and a MacBook and I use and love both everyday. However, I've never thought to myself, "how great would it be to have a 10-inch iPhone?"

Don't know if you know it, but you have an EXCELLENT idea!

IPhone screen too small for Grandma's failing eye site? FINALLY an IPhone for an older generation! Imagine... a bus full of elderly dialing out on their IPad phones!
It would harken back to the early days of cellphones... you know, for the nostalgic missing their brick/bag phones.
You can even explain that since it is bigger, she'd be able to hear the conversations better, too! ;)

Re:This fits squarely in the category of "meh"

[Anonymous Coward]

I like lounging around with both my iphone and my laptop. The iphone fits squarely in my palm, the laptop can rest snuggly on my knees. I am not sure how the iPad will fit into my sofa/ass relationship. Also on occasion i need to browse with one hand, (ahem) this new design does not seem condusive to that!

Good enough?

[DragonWriter]

Its:

• an portable media player (ala iPod) that won't fit in your pocket, and
• a netbook where the entry surface is fixed with the viewing surface rather than at an adjustable angle from it, and
• a nearly-full-page sized e-reader with a backlit rather than reflective screen.

The question is will it be good enough in each of these roles that the compromises make it worthwhile?

Re:Good enough?

[frozen_kangaroo]

I have my MacBook Pro, iPhone and Steve-Jobs-Picking-Up-A-Quarter-Blow-Up-Doll, presumably just like everyone else who would consider buying one of these things. But I agree that it is less good than the other devices that I have for all of the above tasks. Therefore I can't see why I would want one of these.

underpowered?

[commodoresloat]

It actually has a robust power source; it is powered almost entirely by the user's sense of self-importance.

Re:underpowered?

[TheRaven64]

Wow, I hope they implement that on the MacBook Pros too - I'll never have to charge my battery again!

Re:underpowered?

[Anonymous Coward]

If that source fails, it falls back on the wireless connection and gains power from the perpetual internet rumors about the next apple product that will revolutionize the tech market and life as we know it.

Re:underpowered?

[lastchance_000]

I laughed so hard, my beret fell off!

Re:underpowered?

[S.O.B.]

There you have Apple's new marketing campaign slogan:

Self-importance - Powering Macs since 1984.

Re:underpowered?

[ArcherB]

It actually has a robust power source; it is powered almost entirely by the user's sense of self-importance.

So, it runs on smug?

Re:underpowered?

[Anonymous Coward]

It actually has a robust power source; it is powered almost entirely by the user's sense of self-importance.

If this were true it would never need charging.

Re:underpowered?

[KnownIssues]

It actually has a robust power source; it is powered almost entirely by the user's sense of self-importance.

Then mine's gonna go to 11.

Re:underpowered?

[blackpig]

I thought Toyota had the patent on that for the Prius?
Hope they licensed it or the lawsuits will be flying.

iFlop

[Anonymous Coward]

the iPad, revolutionary, everyone will own one, just like the segway.

iPad, a new term to be added to the Apple dictionary along with, iFlop and the iFad

what does this sell for$$$

its cool anyway and I would buy one at $99

Deja vu?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have to use a tethered iPhone for 3G access? Why does this
sound familiar

Yay?

[brianmat]

Unless this comes in around the cost of a regular netbook (~$320 USD) then I don't really see the point.

Netbook:
Flash: Yes
Replaceable battery: Yes
Touchscreen: No (for the most part)
Real keyboard: Yes
Bluetooth: Yes
Tether: Yes

Unless you have a dying need for a 10" touchscreen and the ability to blow up an iPhone application to super pixel size then I really don't see the market. You could argue it as an ebook reader, but the price points they have set in place make the Nook, Kindle, and others look a bit more appealing from the $9.99 and under book list. Overall, I give it a 9.5/10 on the "solution looking for a problem" scale.

Entirely underwhelming.

[Anonymous Coward]

So it's a bloated iPod Touch. That's it?

Now I really want Dvorak.

[Singularity42]

If this is two-hand typing, Dvorak will be great for this. There still isn't one for iPhone (just a hack if you jailbreak).

Re:Now I really want Dvorak.

[KlaymenDK]

Yes well then quit being such a jerk with your oh-so-special so-called "superior" keyboard, you dweeb! ;-)

(...on a completely unrelated note, I'm still looking for a Norwegian variant (Dvorak with æøå caps) for my Android phone...)

What an IRip

[parallel_prankster]

It literally looks like a giant IPhone. This is an ISlap to the IPeople.

What it really needs

[Anonymous Coward]

It better have an iGloryHole to expect anyone to buy it.

RAM? Resolution? Price?

[alexandre]

Where are the real specs?
Are they afraid? :P

iFad?

[bertramwooster]

iFad - 'nuff said :)

is late

[tepples]

What was wrong with the oft-rumored "iSlate" moniker?

"Ip ad" doesn't mean anything in English. "Is late" meant Duke Nukem Forever for several years.

Re:is late

[Anonymous Coward]

What was wrong with the oft-rumored "iSlate" moniker?

"Ip ad" doesn't mean anything in English. "Is late" meant Duke Nukem Forever for several years.

In the UK if you really like this latest apple offering you could be said to be a "fan ipad" (fannypad over here is slang for a womens sanitary towel).

Re:is late

[grepya]

Speaking of feminine reproductive system, "is late" would sound much worse than iPad... no ?

Re:is late

[Theaetetus]

What was wrong with the oft-rumored "iSlate" moniker?

"Ip ad" doesn't mean anything in English. "Is late" meant Duke Nukem Forever for several years.

Touche... I also figured it was the fact that, while cool, "iSlate" is awkward to say due to the transition between the 'eye' and the 'sssla". Ends up sounding more like "ice-late".

Re:is late

[DragonWriter]

"Ip ad" doesn't mean anything in English. "Is late" meant Duke Nukem Forever for several years.

OTOH, "I pad" (which is how "iPad" is pronounced) does mean something in English, usually involving deception (whether it refers to a resume or an undergarment), so I can't see how that makes "iPad" a better product name than "iSlate".

Re:is late

[Tim C]

fannypad over here is slang for a womens sanitary towel

I can see how it might be (fanny = woman's genitals, pad = towel) but I've never heard it, and I'm UK born, bred, and lived all my life.

Re:is late

[Anonymous Coward]

Intellectual Property Advertising

Apple needs a new prod to put all these iProducts

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like MadTV said they need an iRack.
Yes, but like this unveiling show of the iPad the iRack is mismanaged and looks like it was put together with no direction what-so-ever.

Neverthless, let's not focus anymore time on the iRack and now focus all our attention on the new Apple sneaker product the iRan. I hear it's the hottest item out there on the market; so hot it's nuclear!

Apple iPad... on MadTV

[Brazilian Geek]

Just this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1BUH9eXy18

Oh, Steve, Steve, Steve...

[Millennium]

Come on. For three years now, people have known that uttering the words "Five hundred ninety-nine US Dollars" during the big unveil is a kiss of death. Did you really have to go and blow it like that?

Re:Oh, Steve, Steve, Steve...

[Piquan]

For three years now, people have known that uttering the words "Five hundred ninety-nine US Dollars" during the big unveil is a kiss of death.

Good thing it starts at $499, then.

Why buy this

[Anonymous Coward]

Disappointing, but why am I not surprised? Why would anyone buy something that is a closed operating system like this? Give me something that runs OSX, Windows 7, or Linux so I can install software that I want instead of having to buy it from Itunes. Quit trying to control my content for your profit Apple. Let me buy what I want from whom I want.

Re:Why buy this

[quadelirus]

Because most users aren't geeks. My parents/wife/grandmother/friends/baristas/local-coffee-shop-attenders could care less about a closed or open OS. They want something that is simple to use, does what they want to do, is portable, and gives them easy access to facebook, music, movies and now books.

Apple isn't marketing to the geeks, they are marketing to the masses. Similarly the iPhone and iPod Touch have the same closed OS and Android has the open OS. Which one is selling better with non-geeks?

WiFi or 3G

[Lectoid]

Spoke too soon. There are 3G models available.

Re:WiFi or 3G

[RedTeflon]

3G pricing
14.99 for 250 MB
29.99 for Unlimited
A&T of all things

It has 3G.

[WiiVault]

Uhhh. it has 3G dude.

Re:It has 3G.

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

In his defense, Gizmodo reported that it doesn't have 3G. Unfortunately hindsight will ram his karma into the ground.

Re:It has 3G.

[WiiVault]

I'm in the same boat. I was bitching that it was tied to AT&T and then they dropped that it was unlocked. Guess we should learn not to criticize until the event is over.

Re:It has 3G.

[TheRaven64]

Wow, second post to say that, moderated up, and yet completely clueless. 3G means UMTS (if it accepts a SIM, which this does). UMTS is the standard that, everywhere outside the USA, mobile operators are frantically moving away from as they roll out HSPA (3.5G), which provides an order of more speed, or in some case LTE, which is another order of magnitude beyond that.

It also made me chortle a bit to see the prices that Steve Jobs was saying were a 'breakthrough' in pricing for data access. I didn't realise how overpriced data traffic was in the USA. You'd think that companies charging that much would have enough money to roll out HSPA...

Re:It has 3G.

[WiiVault]

The iPhone 3G even supports HSPA 7.2 so what makes you think this wont?

Re:It has 3G.

[WiiVault]

On further note check the specs on Apples site. It shows you to be quite "clueless".

Re:It has 3G.

[quadelirus]

Unfortunately the telcos have some kind of oligopoly here and they aren't looking at giving us better service OR better prices any time soon. $29.99 is pretty good for unlimited. The real catch is that in 6 months AT&T will say that there Unlimited users are using too much bandwidth and its unfair to poor AT&T and will try to charge them more.

Re:It has 3G.

[slimjim8094]

We largely skipped UMTS over here and went straight to HSPA. That's what people in the US mean when they say 3G (except for Verizon, which is closer to 2.5g)

Re:It has 3G.

[quadelirus]

And by "there Unlimited" I meant "their Unlimited." *sighs*

Error in the article

[garg0yle]

"There will be models with 3G support" according to Steve Jobs, so saying that it doesn't support 3G is just a bit, um, wrong.

Re:Error in the article

[SwabTheDeck]

Details:

AT&T (per usual)
$15/mo for 250 MB or$30/mo for unlimited
Free use of AT&T Wi-Fi hotspots
Uses GSM Micro SIMs and will work with any GSM provider that has these cards, all models are "unlocked" and not bound to a carrier

Re:Error in the article

[samkass]

Not only does it support 3G, but it's an unlocked 3G device that requires no contract to activate.

Re:Error in the article

[Anonymous Coward]

Might be kind-of academic whether or not it is unlocked if it uses a new SIM-card standard with unknown support levels from the different GSM carriers.

Re:Error in the article

[shutdown -p now]

And an extra $100 for the 3G-enabled unit.

Re:Error in the article

[Anonymous Coward]

Would that be the real-world "unlimited" or the quantum kind, where it's unlimited only until you observe it?

Re:Error in the article

[antibryce]

you left off the most important part: no contract.

Re:Error in the article

[Sandbags]

more importantly, NO CONTRACT REQUIRED. One month you turn it on, next month you can turn it off, then on later. Activates from the device itself. Also like that it's OPTIONAL. (since it can also tether with an iPhone).

Re:Error in the article

[RightSaidFred99]

Lol. Because people are going to pay $30 for internet access for their tablet, right? Ahahaha. They must be on crack.

Re:Error in the article

[farble1670]

$15/mo for 250 MB

that's about 3x smaller than the smallest movie file i've ever seen. interesting. i guess AT&T is being more realistic about it's capabilities.

Re:Error in the article

[ryanleary]

You should be aware that with those data plans, there is no contract and you can opt-in and opt-out right from the device.

Re:Error in the article

[quenda]

Expensive! In Australia, best price for no-contract postpaid SIM is 1.5c/MB, only pay for what you use. OR $15/month 1G plan with others.
But then the iPad will probably retail for twice as much here.

Re:Error in the article

[Anonymous Coward]

What was funny is they state that the 250MB is a substantial amount for most users...
That is no user that wants to watch a tv show or movie via 3G.
It would be nice if my same plan for my IPHONE covered the IPAD.

iReturned myKindle

[Singularity42]

Sorry about the title...couldn't help it. Anyway, the killer for me was waiting for the page to turn. iPhone is too small, and still waiting on Kindle for my MacBook. I'm interested.

and it will come again

[pydev]

Apple really isn't that innovative, they are simply 6-18 months earlier shipping something. They can get away with that because they can charge a premium. So, you get a $800 iPad with OS X today, or a $300 Chrome OS pad next year.

Re:and it will come again

[tyrione]

Apple really isn't that innovative, they are simply 6-18 months earlier shipping something. They can get away with that because they can charge a premium. So, you get a $800 iPad with OS X today, or a $300 Chrome OS pad next year.

None too swift about Patents I see.

Re:and it will come again

[pydev]

What's there to patent? We've had touch-screen based devices like this for decades. Except for multi-touch, where Apple has managed to get some patents (unjustified IMO), there's nothing new about these devices.

What's happening now is just that they are getting small, cheap, and light enough that people actually want to use them.

AT&T!?!?!?!

[WiiVault]

God tell me this is a bad dream. Cool HW, but WTF are they thinking?

Re:AT&T!?!?!?!

[WiiVault]

Apparently I jumped the gun and it it unlocked and supports microsims. Not so bad.

3G Data Plans

[rotide]

Notes from watching streaming event.

3G Wireless w/AT&T

$14.99 for up to 250 MB per month

$29.99 for unlimited per month

Discuss?

Re:3G Data Plans

[Nukenbar]

If it's all prepaid, how about 1GB for $10 (or whatever) without any time limit.

Re:3G Data Plans

[murphyd311]

They are also pre-paid plans that you can activate directly from the device.

Re:3G Data Plans

[flabordec]

And a $130 increase in the initial price tag.

Re:3G Data Plans

[mdm-adph]

You forgot the most important part -- they're all contract free. Gotta admit that's pretty neat.

Re:3G Data Plans

[Yhippa]

This makes me iSad because I already pay about $60/mo. for FiOS internet. $29.99 is a great deal but that's just too much money on top of what I'm paying. And what's up with the 250 MB for $15? Who would really use that? The average user would probably use that up in two days.

Re:3G Data Plans

[eggnoglatte]

They better be if you are going to have to dish out up to $830 for the hardware!

Re:3G Data Plans

[theantipop]

I'm hoping there will be some way to rig up the sim on my phone to use a contractless $30/month data plan.

Re:3G Data Plans

[theantipop]

And what's up with the 250 MB for $15? Who would really use that? The average user would probably use that up in two days.

That's a lot of web page data to use only during the times you can't get wifi. I've rarely gone over 250megs in a month on my phone.

Re:3G Data Plans

[Z_A_Commando]

Something else for AT&T to blame for overwhelming its network...?

Plus since there are no contracts, AT&T can raise the price every month if they want

Re:3G Data Plans

[GraZZ]

Bring them to Canada please!

Re:3G Data Plans

[cbhacking]

s/unlimited/5GB/g

One of these days there's going to be a suit over how bloody much the carriers charge you if you go over 5GB on their "unlimited" plans. Probably not an issue with a phone, but something like this? At full resolution that's only a few hours of video.

Re:3G Data Plans

[mdm-adph]

I have a feeling I've found out where the contract price is secretly rolled up in. :P

Re:3G Data Plans

[RightSaidFred99]

Right. Paying $30 a month so you can access the web from a Tablet (which has been around forever) is just so _neat_. I'm sure people will be lined up to do that. On top of their existing broadband and their existing cell phone bill, people are just going to fall all over themselves to pay $30 for this, I'm just sure of it!

There is wireless, guys

[Piquan]

Some models have 3G through AT&T, $15 / mo (250 MB) or $30 / mo (unlimited).

"Highly recyclable" battery

[ickleberry]

What exactly do they mean by this? can they recycle (nearly) all the material used to make the battery to make a new battery? how many cycles does it last?

And more importantly, since it's Apple have they managed to somehow wedge the battery in between the layers of the motherboard's PCB to enforce planned obsolescence? Does it shoot nails in your face if you attempt to open it and replace the battery yourself?

Re:"Highly recyclable" battery

[cowscows]

Nails would add too much weight to the device. Instead it detects someone illegally prying it open, and contacts Apple HQ. They then dispatch a hit squad who will storm your house and manually drive nails into your face with beautiful unibody hammers.

iWaited

[Singularity42]

$15 for 250MB, $30 for unlimited (for some values of unlimited). Lemme guess, 10GB, with each additional GB $100 each.

*yawn*

[0xdeadbeef]

No WiMAX. Same storage as an iPod. Lame.

Big disappointment.

[dannydawg5]

More like an iPod Touch that won't fit in your pocket. There's no phone. I'd've been be much, much more impressed if it ran Mac OS X and not iPhone OS. That decision greatly cripples what the device can do.

I'm not impressed seeing the Facebook iPhone app running on it. I can run the full-version Facebook in Firefox on my $300 netbook. However, I suppose I can't install iFart on my netbook, but I'm sure I could find a worthwhile desktop replacement for that. At least I have that option. I'm not tied to the App store like the iPad. There's no Flash either. That means there is no Hulu on any other flash-based content streaming service.

This is an expensive netbook without software customization and without a keyboard. No thanks.

Just as wireless as iPod Touch

[tepples]

Let's see how the stereotypical dismissal of the first-generation iPod classic holds up to the first-generation iPad:

No wireless.

As another user pointed out, iPad supports Wi-Fi. Bring your own Verizon MiFi gateway for even better U.S. 3G coverage than the iPhone.

Less space than a Nomad.

Creative's current MP3 player only goes up to 32 GB.

Lame.

That depends on what restrictions Apple puts on apps for this device.

Re:Just as wireless as iPod Touch

[Neoprofin]

The 32GB iPad costs enough that one could buy two of the latest model Creative Zen Fi-2s.

Oblig.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that an IPad in your panties, or are you just happy to bleed?

IPad name already taken... ?

[Jasonv]

Unfortunately, it seems MadTV has already claim to the name "iPAD" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

Prices

[MilesTails]

Basic Model is $499. Wow, was not expecting that.

time to put "i" names out to pasture

[logicassasin]

I mean, really though... they couldn't come up with a better name??? iPad sounds like digital Kotex...

Re:time to put "i" names out to pasture

[sloth10k]

The 64 GB version is the Max-iPad

Re:time to put "i" names out to pasture

[bughunter]

Does it have 'wings?'

Re:time to put "i" names out to pasture

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a money saving scheme. They already have the tools to print iPod logos ... so now all they need is a sharpie to change their stickers and marketing material to iPad...

Re:time to put "i" names out to pasture

[logicassasin]

ok, that was f_ckin funny.

Re:time to put "i" names out to pasture

[codeAlDente]

Rejected names include iMaxi and iPon. Maybe when the 7 inch version comes out...

Re:time to put "i" names out to pasture

[Thelasko]

iPad sounds like digital Kotex...

NPR actually has a story about this.

Re:time to put "i" names out to pasture

[masmullin]

sounds like a most apt naming scheme.

Re:time to put "i" names out to pasture

[Quantumstate]

Not only that but the name has been trademarked by Fujitsu http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article7006023.ece

$500!

[7Prime]

Wow... nothing really excited me all that much until this price point. Now, THAT'S low! Very unexpected. I was thinking $600 at bear minimum.

Re:$500!

[yurtinus]

Better than I expected, but still pricier than most netbooks. Time will tell I suppose.

Re:$500!

[shutdown -p now]

Well, it's still more than most (more functional) netbooks out there, and more than most eInk readers (and eInk screens are way more expensive than LCD).

Re:$500!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow... nothing really excited me all that much until this price point. Now, THAT'S low! Very unexpected. I was thinking $600 at bear minimum.

$500 + the connectors (they have SPECIAL connectors for TV/Monitor,USB and MEMORY CARD READER) = 600+

Come on... not even a mini-display port? One SD-memory reader? or just a stupid USB!

Re:$500!

[Totenglocke]

Yes, but it's also an ebook reader and at 10 hours of battery life, it beats most netbooks too. So while it's more expensive than a Kindle and a netbook, it's LESS expensive than a Kindle AND a Netbook. It's all a matter of what you want out of your devices on if it's "expensive" or not.

Re:$500!

[yurtinus]

It does win on battery life, so I'll give it that, but there's no compelling reason a netbook can't act as an ebook reader-- albeit a bit less conveniently.

Basically it all comes down to the apps and implementation (as it did with the iPhone). It's definitely an interesting gadget, and the price point isn't terrible. Essentially you need to put the dollar value on the battery life and the app/itunes store convenience.

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad deal-- but unless it manages to create it's own niche it will be competing with the Eees and Aspire Ones of the world, where it does lose out a bit in capability and price. You're absolutely right though that the price all comes down to what you want out of your devices. It really might not be right to even compare this with the netbooks, though until it comes to market there's no telling what market it will be in.

Pricing announced

[garg0yle]

Unit is to start at $499 for 8Gb, $599 for 16Gb, or $699 for 32Gb models
3G enabled units $130 more

Data plans (with AT&T) are 250Mb/month for $14.99 (surely they mean Gb?), or unlimited for $29.99

Re:Pricing announced

[garg0yle]

Mis-type in the above - it's for 16Gb, 32Gb, and 64Gb models, there is no 8Gb model. Sorry :(

Re:Pricing announced

[Anonymous Coward]

The pricing of the unit is terrific, the AT&T pricing is crap. I'll definitely be buying one, but I have a specialized homebrew app where a large multi-touch screen for a control surface is very beneficial.

Anyone have any real info on the processor, and especially how it compares with the performance of the different generations of iPhone? The iPhone actually has a fair amount of processing power, especially once you offload the graphics to OpenGL.

Re:Pricing announced

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely they mean 250Mb/month. Their so-called unlimited plan is capped at 5Gb/month.

Re:Pricing announced

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course not. They fully mean 250Mb. They want people paying them 15 bucks more each month. Why give you a low cost attractive option?

Re:Pricing announced

[EricWright]

Ummm, no. Mb is accurate.

Re:Pricing announced

[jandrese]

(surely they mean Gb?)

You've never dealt with phone companies before have you?

Re:Pricing announced

[rotide]

Just for clarification, it's MB, the capital 'B' signifies Byte over Bit.

Re:Pricing announced

[MistrBlank]

I don't even know why apple bothered. 250MB is laughable. With the way providers calculate data, you'll use that just turning the device on.

Re:Pricing announced

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, that's MB. Also, I'm skeptical of the 'unlimited' claim- At&t only offers laptop connect plans up to 5gb/mo, and even those are double the price of the iPad's 'unlimited' plan.

Re:Pricing announced

[Anonymous Coward]

The storage is actually 16GB, 32GB, and 64GB at those prices.

Re:Pricing announced

[mosb1000]

I average about 250 MB a month on my iPhone. Right now I'm at 125 and my billing cycle is half over. I feel like I'm on it too much as it is, so I don't think there's any reason to believe that 250 is too small to be usable.

Re:Pricing announced

[SimonTheSoundMan]

The capacities are also 16, 32 and 64 GB.

Too many SKUs

[Singularity42]

16, 32, 64 GB? There's at most $50 in actual cost difference between 64 and 16. Apple keeps doing this.

Re:Too many SKUs

[MarkGriz]

That's where they are making most of their profit.
Otherwise they would just put an SD slot in it and let people do their own upgrades.

Re:Too many SKUs

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, 16Gb SDHC cards have been around $30 for 6+ months, so I'd say more like $90 in retail terms. It's the jump from 16 to 32 that's way too high.

iPad = Oversized iPod (almost)

[internetdarwin]

Seeing Jobs hold the "iPad" reminds of this, in both form and relative functionality: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3244/3137570578_6d9ab29809.jpg

$499 for base model; not bad!

[enilnomi]

16GB for $499; 32Gb for $599; 64GB for $699. Add $130 for 3G; carrier will be ATT -- 250MB of data per month for $14.99 or unlimited for $29.99

::sigh:: sign me up, Scotty

It has a keyboard!

[slimjim8094]

as a dock accessory.

starts at 499$

[Anonymous Coward]

wifi:
499 - 16gb
599 - 32gb
699$ - 64gb

wifi + 3g
629$ - 16gb
729$ - 32gb
829$ - 64gb

At a min 2x price of Kindle

[yumyum]

Not sure about this or the market for it...

Re:At a min 2x price of Kindle

[presidenteloco]

But you're missing the point.

A "Birkin" handbag costs 1000x as much as another one you could get at Zellers,
and holds the same amount of stuff.

Apparently, people would rather be seen carrying the "Birkin".

Re:At a min 2x price of Kindle

[WiiVault]

Or maybe have access to the dozens of extra features the iPad provides. Real games, real internet, maps, ect. Is it really that hard for you to grasp?

Re:At a min 2x price of Kindle

[Totenglocke]

It starts $19 more than a Kindle DX and does a hell of a lot more than a Kindle DX.

Re:At a min 2x price of Kindle

[Americano]

Yep, you're right, they're functionally identical, it's just the brand name that's different.

Because the Kindle also has GPS, Compass functionality, video capabilities, and thousands of other applications it can run from day 1.

Oh wait.

The iPon - New Announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

For those customers who find the iPad to unwieldy we announce the iPon. Instead of carrying it on you it can go in you.

xD iPAD?? :) still laughing at that one.

So far some interesting points

[gmuslera]

- Takes advantage of the huge amount of available iPhone apps, at least the ones that have sense to be run without phone.

- ePub format for ebooks. Still can be DRMd (and probably with a format that makes it incompatible with other viewers?) but at least is an open format.

- Capacitive touchscreen, what about accuracy? will matter in such device?

- The presentation seems to be more about apps than about device

For a mobile device, still takes the desktop approach of storage (of movies, apps, books,etc), instead of the cloud one. Google could get the edge over them if moves to their cloud the most used parts of that functionality with Chrome and CHromeOS in ANY computer, not just tablets (if manage to calm down people worried about privacy and ownership of that content).

Re:So far some interesting points

[Nukenbar]

What will be interesting with the epub format is whether or not they will allow you to use epub books that don't have whatever DRM that they will put on the epub files.

This was something that they couldn't do with MP3 files on the iPod because everyone already had a collection of MP3. But they may rightly or wrongly believe that they can create a DRM only library of books, similar to the APP store. This would lock people out of using the vast librabry of epub files that already exist on the internet.

Re:So far some interesting points

[Overzeetop]

This device is severely limited and would do a quick faceplant if it were not Apple. I don't say this as a troll; Apple creates a marketplace for their devices, and that's what makes them great.

This device NEEDS a dedicated app store to make it useful. There's nothing valuable written for touchpads right now - no decent OS support, no decent touch oriented apps, nothing. MS has been very lax in their support of touchpad devices because they've been chasing other things. WinMobile still thinks most people use a stylus on a PDA. They've ignored finger-driven phones for two full code cycles already. Most apps are desktop based (or laptop), so they're driven my mouse/pointer interaction. This iPad doesn't have a keyboard, so kb shortcuts that power users are used to are out the window. The lack of a WM app store means that practically anything you buy for a WM device is going to be $20-$30 per app from a 3rd party. It's hard to get a good stable of apps for less than the price of the phone!

It's Apple, so there's a single interface. That will get the accessory makers to make this thing connect to everything we already use (like the iPod is to car stereos...every heard of a Zune native interface on an mass produced aftermarket head unit?) By getting really good apps on this, people will find it useful, if not ideal. And ideal isn't what people want - they just want good.

Don't get me started on the cloud, though. I don't live in a major metro area, so finding 3G outside of my town is a bit dicey. That means 60-90kbps data rates, and I'm not going to get anything useful in realtime over a link like that. And if I don't pony up $360/yr (or tether my $1000/yr phone plan), I'm stuck with no cloud resources at all when I'm out of a wi-fi hotspot - which is practically everywhere. You can still use the cloud if you have local storage; you can't work off-cloud if you don't.

Re:So far some interesting points

[gobbo]

Teh Cloud is worse than useless in a power outage or road trip or inside a faraday cage-like-room... give me redundancy, please!

Re:So far some interesting points

[gmuslera]

The cloud have just a little advantage over desktop storage. Your content could follow you, not the particular piece of hardware where you have it stored. Will be great that you also be able to do local copies, or remove what you dont want on the cloud from it, but still, the idea of i.e. be able to read a book just like in the iPad, but enabling you to change from location and device to keep reading it looks attractive.

Re:So far some interesting points

[shutdown -p now]

ePub format for ebooks. Still can be DRMd (and probably with a format that makes it incompatible with other viewers?) but at least is an open format.

Well, at least there may be something good coming out of it. So far there has effectively been just one ePub DRM scheme, and if Apple signs up for that (I sure hope they do), this just might tip the scale enough to force Amazon to follow suit, and we'll finally get to the point where you can buy your book in any store, and, even though it is DRM'd, it can be opened on any reader.

Re:So far some interesting points

[babyrat]

There's nothing valuable written for touchpads right now - no decent OS support, no decent touch oriented apps, nothing

Have you tried the touch support in Windows 7? It integrate the touch stuff with the rest of the operating system, allowing touch access and gestures to apps that aren't written specifically.

I'll admit there could be more touch specific apps - I suspect that the slew of new tablets introduced at CES might spur some new development.

Price

[geoffrobinson]

$499 to $699

yes for example

[commodoresloat]

That Divinyls song from the 90s, "iTouch Myself"

Re:yes for example

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, you saw that creepy Mick Jagger-esque guy on American Idol too, I see.

Guessing the iPad application will change its name

[dunsurfin]

Looks like the unfortunately named iPad application will be changing it name: http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/business/ipad.html As of the time of writing, this was the only result searching for iPad on Apple's site.

keyboard dock / multi tasking / phone

[alexandre]

And to add to that, It's so nice to see apple make a keyboard dock and ditch the ... mouse ? haha

Also, still no multi tasking and phone?
I guess you can use voice app but since there is no front cam (what were they thinking?!), i'm also guessing you need an external mic?

_FAIL_

iSingularity

[Singularity42]

The Singularity (moving, not copying) to machines won't have all these SKUs. Wait for it.

Microsoft needs to swallow its pride and ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... ship Office for this thing. If Microsoft were in pursuit of profits rather than illegal market domination, they would have been there at the creation of a brilliant evolutionary turn in the way we use computing devices.

Re:Microsoft needs to swallow its pride and ...

[Don_dumb]

Microsoft might be wary of the embarrassment that having the app rejected by Apple would cause

iAnswer

[Singularity42]

It does most of the phone--minus the camera. There are capacitive pens--there will be a market with such a big device now.

latest draft of the spec

[commodoresloat]

Here. It's not like this is GNU Hurd or something.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

[Singularity42]

Not seeing it on the front page, but it's all up here.

No contract need for 3G!

[WiiVault]

Unlocked, MicroSIM compatible. SOLD

Re:No contract need for 3G!

[autophile]

GSM only, no Verizon possible. NOT SOLD.

Re:No contract need for 3G!

[newcastlejon]

All well and good, but MicroSIM? Why?! What possible need was there for another size card? The credit card-sized ones were obviously too large but you couldn't argue that the space savings in something so much bigger than a phone were worth putting off anyone who already has a SIM.

It's unlocked but good luck getting a SIM for it.

Re:No contract need for 3G!

[LanMan04]

Who cares, CDMA *sucks*. SOLD

apple doubles prices again

[farble1670]

an apple laptop is about 2x the price* of a PC laptop for about the same hardware. and continuing with that trend, they have now released a netbook that is about 2x the price of a PC netbook.

* a strict price comparison is not possible. apple tends to have better form factors. in laptops (at 2x the price), they have a slightly better processor, and usually a smaller hard drive. the iPad (at 2x the price) obviously has a better form factor and a touch screen, but a netbook has a more powerful processor and bigger disk.

Re:apple doubles prices again

[MistrBlank]

Please do not compare this to a netbook, this doesn't do half as much as my netbook can and has nothing in it that makes it more attractive than the iPhone I already have.

I like that Jobs took a shot at Netbooks, but then failed to deliver a product that is better.

Re:apple doubles prices again

[rahvin112]

In this case that ARM 1GHZ chip is about half the speed of the currently shipping N450 Atom. Sure it consumes a tenth of the power but is half the processing power worth half the electricity for twice the cost? ARM is supposed to be cheaper than Intel, not more expensive.

Re:apple doubles prices again

[farble1670]

people are already unimpressed w/ the ipad's purported battery life. battery life is king when it comes to portable devices. as unfortunate as it is, the ARM processor was probably a good tradeoff.

Nah, the iPod was truly special, this is just..

[Shivetya]

just... If it had come out before the iPhone it might have been something. Instead we now have a device which takes a purse to carry, or perhaps your supposed to carry it in addition to your macbook, and does what exactly? Gives me a bigger screen to read on?

This device is just large enough to not be portable enough for the majority. Its a Starbucks "cred" toy. Something to whoop out at Starbucks so you can have people fawning over you. Its expensive enough to where you can't just leave it unattended either and too large to take many places comfortably.

The keyboard demonstration was just painful.

A "size" smaller and maybe... really, how do I carry it "conveniently"

Re:Nah, the iPod was truly special, this is just..

[Kelbear]

I'm half-joking and half-serious here, but man-bags are on the rise.

It's still sort of taboo here in the US(unless it's a bag for work), but in Europe and Asia, there's nothing out of the ordinary when a man walks around with a bag. It's a bit odd since men had been wearing bags for quite a long time before men in the US decided it was unfashionable.

I was a little anxious about walking around in public with a man-purse, but I got over it. Yes all my friends made fun of me at first, but they had to grudgingly acknowledge that all they were carrying was keys, phone, and a wallet because they couldn't fit anything else. Meanwhile I had a keys, wallet, phone, ipod, card wallet, gum, glasses, cleaning cloth, contact case, eye drops, aspirin, pen, notepad, athsma inhaler, and a multi-tool, and an alcohol spray by default, with room to add anything I might need specifically for that day like gloves, tieclip, USBstick, etc. etc. A manbag works well with the geek-lifestyle, particularly for the gadget fiends out there. It even works for Jack Bauer man-of-action! Saw him sporting a new leather bag this season.

I could conceivably toss an "iPad" in there(that is, if I wanted one). The main issue is weight because once a shoulderbag goes beyond 2lbs it stops being comfortable during long walks. Netbooks can be carried in a shoulderbag, but not comfortably, I'd rather leave it at home if I didn't need it. At 1lb, an iPad may be feasible for some people to carry on a day to day basis.

Kenneth Cole has a fine variety of man-bags (The canvas day bag at around $50 is a great place to start), there are also some good deals at Ebags.com

Re:Nah, the iPod was truly special, this is just..

[mr100percent]

I think the fact that the Kindle is immensely popular proves your argument wrong. The iPad outdoes the Kindle in almost every way too

Re:Nah, the iPod was truly special, this is just..

[socsoc]

Your alcohol comes in spray form? I still have to drink it here. The US is so backwards...

Seriously though, many yanks in their 20s and younger (not just college folk) just carry nicer backpacks or messenger bags, especially if there's a computer inside. Not out to the grocery store, but going to work or for a day spent drinking downtown. You can only fit so much into cargo pants.

multiple SIM cards

[pydev]

I know this comes as a surprise to US users, but in many countries, you get multiple SIM cards on the same contract for no or little extra money. Put one in your phone, one in your reader, one in your laptop, etc. Nice, eh?

Re:multiple SIM cards

[sopssa]

Exactly, these are even free from my mobile operator and all work independently. Technically the different sim cards have different numbers, but they all work under same "number"/contract. I have one for my phone, one for my 3G usb plugin and one just as a backup :)

Re:multiple SIM cards

[Neoprofin]

Not as much as having one phone but needing to switch between 5 different SIMs with 5 different numbers because the cheap carrier in one country will rape you brutally in the next.

Re:multiple SIM cards

[Comboman]

What happens if you put two SIM cards in two phones? Do incoming calls get routed to both phones? Or is one SIM voice-only and one SIM data-only?

Re:multiple SIM cards

[PopeRatzo]

I know this comes as a surprise to US users, but in many countries, you get multiple SIM cards on the same contract for no or little extra money.

You mean you can use more than one device with the same account?

You must live in one of those horrible European socialist countries where your markets aren't as free as in the US. I get the feeling that the only thing that's "free" in a "free market" is that corporations are "free" to fuck over consumers.

Now I'm depressed. thanks a lot.

Re:multiple SIM cards

[am 2k]

I just looked that up for my european GSM provider (guess why), and they state that both phones ring, outgoing calls on both phones display the same number on the caller's phone and you can use the simultaneously. Sounds like the ideal deal, the only problem is getting a micro-sim...

Re:multiple SIM cards

[ColdWetDog]

You must live in one of those horrible European socialist countries where your markets aren't as free as in the US. I get the feeling that the only thing that's "free" in a "free market" is that corporations are "free" to fuck over consumers.

Hey, give them a break. Those corporations that you're dissing spend a lot of money bribing the congresscritters.

Not free at all....

Re:multiple SIM cards

[node 3]

You must live in one of those horrible European socialist countries where your markets aren't as free as in the US. I get the feeling that the only thing that's "free" in a "free market" is that corporations are "free" to fuck over consumers.

Hey, give them a break. Those corporations that you're dissing spend a lot of money bribing the congresscritters.

Not free at all....

You're thinking of free as in beer, but it's free as in speech. Just look at the recent Supreme Court ruling...

Re:multiple SIM cards

[nick.cash]

No, no, no, no, nonsense. We have more freedom because we get to pick between four totally different phone carriers, and get cheap cheap phones at the tiny of cost of a two (or more, in the end) year contractual commitment! It's totally more convenient that way. And the best thing is, once you're contract is up and you want to go to a different company, you get to throw away your old phone (cuz its not compatible!) and start all over! (Yes I'm aware T-Mobile and ATT are both GSM and unlocked phones are compatible between them, but they have different 3G frequencies, making modern phones non-portable if you care about using 3G. Sprint and Verizon use a silly CDMA system almost no other country uses and aren't portable between the two anyway) Vendor lock-in makes everyone happier! Nobody wants to pick phone companies based on their actual merits. We prefer when the decision is easier and based on what trendy phones are available to suck us into a commitment. Yay!

Crunchpad... er JooJoo

[fibrewire]

I hope Michael Arrington and Chandra Rathakrishnan will overcome there differences, and release their beast for $200 like they said they would, else all their greed will go unrewarded. And for everyone that pre-ordered, GOOD LUCK!

Played with my first iPod Touch a month ago . . .

[OnTheEdge]

... and my first thought was, damn - I wish this screen was bigger. Plus as much as I despise the iTunes store (for numerous reasons), especially loaded on a PC, accessing it over the iPod Touch directly, wasn't so bad. It will be interesting to see how this thing takes off.

Whats new?

[plague911]

What can the "crap-pad" do that cant already be done by a different device? It seems like apple made the iphone a little large or they made a tablet PC which can play iphone apps. This is not a new device at best its a product refresh..

Re:Whats new?

[exomondo]

And i'd say that - for that very reason - the iPad has put the kibosh on any hopes of a ~5" iPhone, which would be MUCH more practical!

Apple spec site is up

[Singularity42]

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

--

I wasn't seeing this on the main apple page. Store hasn't been down today.

Not for me.

[B5_geek]

It's not a Nokia N900.
You need iTunes to use it.

I am tired of my gear owning me. DRM that makes it hard for me to use what I bought. Cell phone companies crippleing the hardware and then 'selling' you the features at a higher cost. Operating Systems that assume I am an idiot and don't let me get at the guts to configure it the way I WANT IT!

No thank-you. I am getting off this roller-coaster.

Re:Not for me.

[Americano]

Doesn't much sound like you were on the Apple rollercoaster to begin with. But thanks for checking in to let us know you're not in their target demographic.

Re:Wifi tethering with Android or Nokia, of course

[pydev]

Actually, turns out it comes in 3G versions as well, so you can use it directly.

it has 3G

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.apple.com/ipad/pricing/ Expensive as hell

SimonTek

Has a keyboard dock

[SuperKendall]

You should have waiting until the end to comment, there's a dock (that it comes with) where you can attach some kind of external keyboard (probably supports bluetooth).

Re:Has a keyboard dock

[socsoc]

The keyboard sold by apple isn't bluetooth. It's physically attached to the dock, but iPad will work with any bluetooth keyboard.

Re:Has a keyboard dock

[SuperKendall]

Good point, I had not realized until recently that they have a keyboard dock, and also a smaller dock without a keyboard.

Cannot write with a pen!

[heteromonomer]

I was hoping that this will be my ultimate notes-taking and doodling and design device. I own an X61 tablet with Win7 and am disappointed. Unfortunately the iPad is also disappointing. And what is with that name? iSlate would've been better.

Re:Cannot write with a pen!

[mosb1000]

I doubt you will have to wait long before someone makes a stylus and a note-taking app for it.

Woosh!

[Overzeetop]

Even without the missed humor, there are things here that spell a challenge: No cell data on the stock model (it's a $130 upgrade), no flash in the browser (most video sites require it, and some commercial sites are solely flash (yes, I hate you RainforestCafe)), horrible battery life compared to an eReader (10h vs 2 weeks).

Will it succeed? Of course. Apple will tweak it, and it will have very cool app support. People who don't own an ereader won't realize how straining it is to read a full book on a backlit screen, or conversely how much easier it is to read an eInk page. It will get flash support of some kind, I suspect. And every accessory maker and their brother will make adapters for it. Actually, that's the only reason I have an iPod - it's the only mp3 player that works well with practically any car stereo.

BTW - You can get a Kindle DX with the same size screen, so the "full page" experience ereader already exists (with free 3G, at that).

iPad or ...

[Anonymous Coward]

more like an iFad

True

[commodoresloat]

This is exactly what happened when the iPod was announced: slashdot dismissed it as derivative while Apple quietly reinvented the freakin' walkman. One thing Apple generally gets right is marketing. There may be nothing technologically revolutionary to most slashdotters in the iPad but the fact is it's already shaken up the consumer world even before it was officially acknowledged as an existing product. At the Consumer electronics show in Las Vegas this year the upcoming Apple tablet was a bigger topic of excitement than any device that actually existed at the time -- Apple didn't even go to the convention and yet they managed to have a significant presence there. They have been very successful in the hype department without even spending a dime on advertising. Technological merits aside they will sell a boatload of these.

Re:True

[Mongoose Disciple]

They have been very successful in the hype department without even spending a dime on advertising.

Sure, we haven't seen an iPad ad yet, but do you really believe that

A) Some of the hype around this thing wasn't intentionally engineered by Apple and

B) They did so without spending a dime?

What marketing is in the modern world is changing fast. It's not all about print ads and TV commercials, or even web ads.

Re:True

[jedidiah]

...it was dismissed because it was terribly flawed. It did not start to take
off in the market until those flaws were addressed. So the "bogus slashbot
commentators" were actually 100% right.

      You never know, history might repeat itself here.

Re:True

[Anonymous Coward]

Please show me exactly which flaws were fixed when compared with a graph of the sales records (preferably logarithmic, to help see detail in the early days), because I have this feeling -- well, more exactly a strong and precise set of memories as a person who was gifted a first gen. iPod and also held shares of Apple back in those days -- that you are completely full of shit with your revisionist history. Apple stock lagged the release of the iPod, however the iPod crushed the competition rather quickly and the later rises in sales was part of an overall major increase in mp3 player sales. The first gen. iPod was in some ways better than the following few generations -- in that it had the clicky-wheel to provide tactile feedback, and firewire which made it a good portable hard drive.

Re:True

[proslack]

Where Apple spent it's money last year: Operating expenses: Research and development 1,333,000,000 Selling, general and administrative 4,149,000,000 Notice that they spent about three times as much convincing you to buy stuff as they did designing it...

Re:True

[Nerdfest]

After all that hype, it seems like a bit of a disappointment, which is inevitable in most cases.

Re:True

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing Apple generally gets right is marketing.

We'll see. The iPad video on apple.com pissed me off with its sanctimony, and I own an iMac.

Re:True

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn to paragraph.

The fact that the iPad has no drawing/handwriting app (not that people won't try) shows it's got a long way to go. The fact that it's not a multitasking OS means that it's mostly a glorified media player and not really meant to be a legitimate computing device.

The utility of a device (especially one from Apple) has nothing to do with whether it sells. Apple could create a unisex wallet and you know they would sell millions of them. Would it be a decent wallet? Probably. Would it justify the consumer craze and sales volume? No.

So you hit the nail on the head: Apple is good at selling itself. They make decent products, but their whoremanship is what sets them apart as a company.

Re:True

[Princeofcups]

Notice that they spent about three times as much convincing you to buy stuff as they did designing it...

Worthless statistic. A device only has to be designed once. If you sell millions of them in a hundred different countries over several years of course your marketing is going to grow large.

Re:True

[exomondo]

The difference here is that they have re-created their own device, down to even running virtually the same operating system and just given it a bigger screen (making it less practical) and removed the ability to make phone calls (making it less useful). With regard to eBooks who knows, sure it's not as good for reading as an e-ink display but they made a phone that has horrible call quality and that was still successful.

Re:True

[sootman]

This is exactly what happened when the iPod was announced: slashdot dismissed it as derivative while Apple quietly reinvented the freakin' walkman.

True. In the beginning of today's preso they showed some numbers: 250M iPods, plus (slightly combined with) 75M iPhones/iPod touches. So let's round that off and say roughly 300,000,000 devices in just over 8 years--roughly one for every man, woman, and child in the United States. (And pretend that the average price of those was $100--that's THIRTY BILLION DOLLARS. No sense mentioning the iTMS and App Store.) Obviously Jobs and crew know something that CmdrTaco and LoudMusic* and the rest of the unwashed masses of Slashdot don't. I'm not saying that Apple only hits home runs (Cube, puck mouse, newest Shuffle) but they score more often than they don't.

And look at delivery and pricing. Compare this to all the tablets from CES earlier this month: either underwhelming, or expensive, or not being released until the end of the year. Apple may not have invented the be-all, end-all device, but it's $500 and will be shipping in 2 months.

And remember folks, it's only going to get better.

* with respect to LoudMusic: iTunes is free, Apple went to USB, and they lowered the price. Still, the lesson is, it's bad form to predict success or failure based on the first version. It'd be like looking at a baby and saying "10 pounds, can't walk, can't talk, no teeth... he's doomed."

Re:True

[patSPLAT]

we were all hoping to see mac os x join the netbook crowd. it is very nice to have a small bag carry around, and it would be nicer if mac os x was in that bag. unfortunately, windows 7 or ubuntu will have to suffice.

Re:True

[jimicus]

Where Apple spent it's money last year:

  Operating expenses:

Research and development
                                  1,333,000,000

Selling, general and administrative
                                  4,149,000,000

Notice that they spent about three times as much convincing you to buy stuff as they did designing it...

I would point out that Steve Jobs can afford to wipe his arse with $100 bills. Can you wipe your arse with $100 bills?

Re:True

[Anonymous Coward]

Duke Nukem Forever was a pretty big topic at some events, too.

I wouldn't have been disappointed by the iPad except that, in the past few days, articles started appearing about how the mystery product could be useful for education...articles saying that one of Steve Jobs' passions was education reform.

Education reform is one of my passions, too. One of the best things we can do for education right now would be to bring a computer of some kind to every student. Some schools have computers for all students, most schools have computers for many students, but making sure every student has a portable computer with a few basic universal functions would be game-changing. Providing teachers with interactive whiteboards is kind of nice, but in the end it perpetuates the exact same lecture-based classroom we've always had. We've reached the upper limit of the lecture-based classroom, it's time to take it to the next level with one-to-one computers.

The problem is that, even when netbook hardware can be had for $300~, it's not happening. Nobody is pushing schools to do it. Nobody is helping schools get past the infrastructure problems. Nobody is offering etextbooks easily and cheaply and trust-worthy enough to convince schools to switch.

Steve Jobs could have done that. He could have developed a device and support system that every school in the nation would pick up on. He could have tweaked the app store to make distributing apps to student devices easy, and to restrict underage access to inappropriate app demos and screenshots. He could have signed up some etextbook companies. Business case: he could have exposed tens of millions of youth to Apple products for 8 hours a day, 180 days a year, dealing a devastating blow to Microsoft.

But he didn't. The Mac changed computers. The iPod changed music. The iPhone changed telecommunications and more. The iPad will change...tablet PCs? Wake me up when the i____ changes education.

Re:True

[PAKnightPA]

Your comment is very misleading: Sales, General and Administrative is not merely marketing expenses. It includes, among other things, the salaries of everyone at the company (thus the word general) and numerous other expenses. Therefore it is not accurate to use SG&A as a substitute for marketing costs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SG%26A

Re:True

[vakuona]

I agree that Apple gets the marketing right, but I think that's not what Apple really gets right. What Apple really gets right is making products that are simple and not annoying to use for the masses. Compare the original iPod to its mp3 playing peers. Until Apple made the iPhone and the iPod Touch, no other player came close. That and the iTunes store tie up, and Apple really got it right. It makes marketing the damn product easy. How memorable are the iPhone ads. In fact, how many ads do you know where all someone is doing is showing you what the device can do, easily? Imagine such an ad for the Sony Ericsson W960i http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w960i. The phone has many of the features on an iPhone, but even Sony Ericsson would not be caught dead demonstrating it on TV.

The technology is important, but isn't everything. Making it work for people is more important than any ingenuity that went into making the product

Re:True

[Anonymous Coward]

Big difference between ipod/iphone and the ipad.

Before IPod, there were a ton of people who knew what a portable audio device was and had a desire to own one. The IPod reinvented a device that people needed and wanted.

Before iphone, there were a ton of people who knew what a cellphone/pda device was and had a desire to own one. IPhone reinvented a device that people needed and wanted.

Before the ipad, there were very few people who knew what a tablet was designed for or cared to own one. Now that ipad is out, that desire is not likely to change. True it is probably the best tablet on the market so far, but I dont think its "game changing" enough to convince those who never wanted one that they have a new need for one.

Will see how it goes, but I dont think IPod/IPhone are really comparable to this launch.

Re:True

[Rennt]

At the Consumer electronics show in Las Vegas this year the upcoming Apple tablet was a bigger topic of excitement than any device that actually existed at the time

No it wasn't. CES was dominated by Android, and the blog sphere hyped the Nexus 1 much more then this device. The Apple hype machine was surprisingly lacklustre for the iPad.

Re:True

[Anonymous Coward]

bullshit. you act like apple doesn't have failed products, which is absolutely untrue.

Re:True

[commodoresloat]

OK, I'm guilty of overstating the case, but the Nexus and the Android devices actually were at the show. A lot of folks (including some of the people pushing ereaders) were talking about (and even got downright dreamy about) a product from a company that wasn't even there. That's remarkable. Even moreso given the lack of the hype machine there.

Re:True

[commodoresloat]

Oh for sure they've had some failures -- the cube, the MacTV, and much more. But they did something really right here, marketing-wise, and they did it seemingly effortlessly. How do you generate hype about a product when you won't even tell anyone that you're working on it? Apple managed to do that. It's remarkable, no matter how boring or derivative the technology might be. A lot of people wanted this device very very badly long before its existence was even acknowledged, much less leaked.

Re:True

[MistrBlank]

The problem I think is that Apple Marketing failed this time. They failed with the name (iPad sounds like a feminine hygiene product) and they failed to produce an event that shows us why we need this.

They showed us some nifty little gadgets and apps for it, but the reality is the applications are going to have to sell this. I don't think enough time was spent on iWork for this. I don't think they spend nearly enough time with productivity applications in relation to

If this thing ran ALL of OpenOffice.org or Microsoft Office on day one, it would probably start to sell huge.

And don't get me wrong, there are a number of hardware changes that need to occur as well. For one, it should have a magnetic dock charger (the fact that they came out with a 6 foot extension cord for the usb wall charger is laughable). The keyboard dock is a fail, they need to advertise this is as a micro workstation with a BLUETOOTH keyboard and possibly mouse.

Now you combine hardware and software such as a good remote desktop app and you have a good setup that you can pick up and walk away with even easier than a laptop. I can't wait to see what RealVNC, LogMeIn and the open source community can roll out on this. And best of all, it's a sync device remoting into another system on a (potentially) 802.11n network.

A photographer in the family is frothing at this, assuming apple can get the hardware act together quickly enough so his cameras can communicate easily with this. This is a great viewing device for field work (stuff like class photos and "Santa at the Mall" shoots) according to him as long as the software catches up too.

And that's why Apple failed with marketting yesterday. This should have been introduced at a Developer's conference so that they could pitch to developers what will now be available and then have the hands on sessions. But then again, this gives developers 4 or 5 months till the WWDC.

The iPad EASILY has the potential to become part of a greater home hub.

My only question, why are these wireless devices still syncing over dock connector only? AppleTV has proven it can be done over the network.

Wrong prices...

[denzacar]

From TFA:

"So $499 for 16GB of iPad," Jobs explained. "That's our base model. 32GB is $599, 64GB is $799. 3G models cost an extra $130. $629, 729, and 829 with 3G."

Re:Wrong prices...

[rotide]

The article you quoted has a typo. The 64GB
model does _not_ start at $799, it starts at $699.

Base model with no 3G is $499.
Each model higher with no 3G is $100 more.

Base models: 16GB-$499, 32GB-$599, 64GB-$699

Add $130 more to each of those prices to get the 3G enabled versions.

Cheapest 3G model is $499+130=$629
Most expensive 3G model is $699+130=$829

They killed their own baby.

[foo fighter]

This thing kills the MacBook Air.

On the other hand, I guess we now know Apple's premium for running an unlocked operating system. (iPad: $500, MacBook Air: $1500; you do the math)

Re:They killed their own baby.

[farble1670]

they are pretty different markets. the air is a fully-featured laptop (with a keyboard) running OSX. the iPad has no keyboard and is much less powerful and runs "iphone OS.next" or whatever they are calling it.

Re:They killed their own baby.

[foo fighter]

Gotta disagree that the Air and iPad target different markets.

The market for the Air is executives and frequent travelers who need something small to take notes on, edit spreadsheets, power projectors, and kill plane time, all while looking cool.

Now that same group will be able to do the same thing, except for $1000 less, plus the new thing plays games and is a much better ebook reader.

Re:They killed their own baby.

[farble1670]

The market for the Air is executives and frequent travelers who need something small to take notes on, edit spreadsheets, power projectors, and kill plane time, all while looking cool.

i'd disagree, for the reason that you simply cannot do anything more than the simplest data entry with a touch screen.

1. it's a very small keyboard
2. you don't have physical button edges which means you *must* look at every key you press
3. the on-screen keyboard severely hides the display when it's up
4. you are either standing with the device typing with one hand and holding it with the other, or sitting down with it on your lap with the entire device flat, keyboard and display which puts the display at an awkward angle making it hard to see (along with the keyboard, which is on the display as well).

but

[commodoresloat]

it has wireless!

Re:but

[Wyatt Earp]

And more space than a Nomad.

So it should be "no 3G connection built in. Less space than a Inspiron Mini 10v. Lame."

No stylus eh?

[mikael_j]

I see nothing about stylus support, guess I won't be buying one then.

It would have been a perfect device with stylus support, now it's just not for me (although I do see a lot of possibilities for others).

/Mikael

Re:No stylus eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this post possibly considered insightful?

Re:No stylus eh?

[cowscows]

I doubt it'll be long before you can buy any number of stylus accessories for it. Sure, they probably won't have all sorts of neato buttons and such built in, but it'll at least allow you to draw in a more familiar way.

Re:No stylus eh?

[mikael_j]

That's probably true but my experience tells me the precision won't be anywhere near that of a Wacom tablet since it'll essentially be a "fake finger" (so no pressure sensitivity).

But I'll keep my eyes open and decide if I'll buy an iPad for the other features and development possibilities or if I'll just get a Modbook.

/Mikael

Re:No stylus eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I really hope you're being sarcastic. If not, here's a hint - I just used a butter knife to navigate my ipod touch. Maybe not the most ergonomic "stylus" but functional. More importantly, it means that it is painfully simple to make your own stylus.

Re:No stylus eh?

[mikael_j]

And I suppose it was touch-sensitive? and that it had sub-pixel precision? and what about tilt sensitivity? Because these are all standard features with a "real" active digitizer.

Precision that is ±15px and without pressure sensitivity just isn't enough.

/Mikael

Re:No stylus eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I really hope you're being sarcastic. If not, here's a hint - I just used a butter knife to navigate my ipod touch. Maybe not the most ergonomic "stylus" but functional. More importantly, it means that it is painfully simple to make your own stylus.

Can you also take notes with your butter knife? :-) I had hoped to use this as a note taking device instead of a tablet of paper (make them searchable etc.). Then I could browse the web during boring meetings. I guess I'm not in the target market for this device though.

Re:No stylus eh?

[AiTuDou]

If you mean handwriting support, you're boned. If you just want a stylus for being a bit more precise: http://www.google.com/search?q=stylus+for+iphone http://tenonedesign.com/stylus.php http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/06/diy_iphone_stylus.html Anything that's conductive (and earthed to you) can be used as a stylus on capacitive screens. My missus has even used a mushroom to type on my N1.

Re:No stylus eh?

[RazorSharp]

Yeah, it's one of those special touch screens that only reacts to fingers. It's programmed to reject little plastic sticks.

Re:No stylus eh?

[mikael_j]

I want a stylus so I can draw, paint and sketch, and for that the Pogo stylus and those homemade ones just aren't good enough, it needs to have an active digitizer.

/Mikael

Re:No stylus eh?

[mikael_j]

Well sort of, it's not an active digitizer, even if you use a homemade stylus for it you still won't get pressure sensitivity, angle sensitivity or sub-pixel precision.

/Mikael

Re:No stylus eh?

[SimonTheSoundMan]

Capacitive stylus will work with this, just like on the iPhone.

Re:No stylus eh?

[mikael_j]

Yes, and if you had read any of my previous replies to replies stating this I pointed out that such a device is practically useless if the reason for wanting a stylus isn't "I'm clumsy and can't hit the screen using my fingers" but rather "I want to draw/sketch/paint/do 3d modeling" since the precision is still awful and it lacks basic features that any consumer-level active digitizer will have (pressure sensitivity for one, this is a deal breaker btw, I can live without it sensing the angle of the stylus but without pressure sensitivity it's useless).

/Mikael

Exactly ! so it is great !

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPod touch is a great device ! It is small and portable, runs oodles of nifty applications (many of them for free), shows pics, plays videos and music, and it's just $199, and you can develop your own apps for free (ish, you kinda need a mac :), it is a great device for displaying information, and the touch screen makes it usable for some input.

This is an even better device for displaying information (much bigger screen, which enables much better output and also input), although not as portable and more expensive ($500).

The OS is both a feature and a bug :), since it is much less complex that other modern OSs, which makes it very very stable, but you can't run 10 things at a time (5 of them servers :)

It is a simple device, at a decent price point (can probably get a really crappy wintel tablet for $300, a smartphone is $500), and it can replace many special purpose devices (UPS tablets :)

I think it will greatly impact (revolutionize ?) ebooks (yes, an epaper display would be better, but ... :), education, and many other areas. People will find many uses for it, I hope (and yes, I will probably buy one :)

Fix economy

[alcmaeon]

Well, you could take his suggestion and actually go out and participate in the economy by working, investing, and innovating instead of sitting in front of your computer bitching about how bad the economy you don't participate in is.

My New Audrey

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I'm going to get one of these things. I used to have one of those 3Com Ergo Audreys sitting in the dining room for quick email & web browsing, and it was great for the early 2000s. This thing on its dock on the kitchen counter, plugged into the speakers, should be a nice modern replacement and as a bonus you can walk around with it & read books if you want. 3Com tried to get $500 for the Audrey when it first came out, this may actually be worth it.

32Gb?!

[commodoresloat]

That's more space than a Nomad!!!

Sure, but

[zookeeperme]

does it make coffee?

Glass...

[oh2]

The front of the thing is glass. I was enthusiastic until I realized that a 10" glass plate at the front doesnt make for a portable device thats very tough. I bet theres a very good reason they designed that sleeve for it...

Some possible design flaws

[OG]

1) While it's nice that it has a keyboard dock, it appears that the dock may only support the iPad in portrait mode (they placement of the connector on the long side of the iPad made it seem a bit precarious for putting in a docked mode).

2) Nothing said about mouse support. Seriously, if I'm going to be using it for any type of document creation (and they seem to think people will, as they're providing iWorks in the app store), I don't want to have to use the screen for copy and paste. Lack of mouse support would be a killer for me.

3) Main screen is nothing but icons to get into applications. With more screen real estate there should be support for widgets on the home screen (as I understand it, iPhones and iPod touches don't allow that--one must jailbreak a phone and do it manually).

I'm sure there are more, but those are some things that pop right out at me. As others have said, it really looks like the worst of both worlds. Not as portable as a smartphone, not as good at document creation as a netbook or notebook. eBooks, papers, and mags seem to be the only things to gain from this device.

Re:Some possible design flaws

[mosb1000]

1) While it's nice that it has a keyboard dock, it appears that the dock may only support the iPad in portrait mode (they placement of the connector on the long side of the iPad made it seem a bit precarious for putting in a docked mode).

You can also use the apple wireless keyboard with it.

2) Nothing said about mouse support. Seriously, if I'm going to be using it for any type of document creation (and they seem to think people will, as they're providing iWorks in the app store), I don't want to have to use the screen for copy and paste. Lack of mouse support would be a killer for me.

I think very few people would find use for a mouse with this thing. Copy/Paste is very usable on the iPhone (I use the feature all the time).

3) Main screen is nothing but icons to get into applications. With more screen real estate there should be support for widgets on the home screen (as I understand it, iPhones and iPod touches don't allow that--one must jailbreak a phone and do it manually).

Can't argue with you there. Hopefully Apple will see the light and change things up a bit. I sold my original iPhone to my coworker and she promptly jail broke it and unlocked it. I do get a bit jealous of all the neat things she can do on it that I can't do on my 3GS

Re:Some possible design flaws

[tknd]

I think very few people would find use for a mouse with this thing.

The major benefit of the mouse is that you can rest your hand on the desk rather than keep your arm lifted to touch a screen.

Re:Some possible design flaws

[Totenglocke]

2) Nothing said about mouse support. Seriously, if I'm going to be using it for any type of document creation (and they seem to think people will, as they're providing iWorks in the app store), I don't want to have to use the screen for copy and paste. Lack of mouse support would be a killer for me.

I would assume that since it has bluetooth, you would be able to connect a bluetooth mouse to it.

Re:Some possible design flaws

[mosb1000]

I don't think it's meant to be used at a desk.

Re:Some possible design flaws

[slim]

From the looks of it, the keyboard dock is can *only* be used at a desk.

Re:Some possible design flaws

[Culture20]

I would assume that since it has bluetooth, you would be able to connect a bluetooth mouse to it.

People assumed that about the iPhone too. They were disappointed.

The iPad is a Platform

[Max Romantschuk]

Most people here don't see past their own noses... Myself, I like the iPad except for the fact that Apple decides what I can install... but that's the whole point.

The iPad is a platform, not a device.

Most people just want stuff to work, and don't want to care how. Most of the time, so do I. I don't want my stove in the kitchen to require a friggin manual to do basic cooking even if I could patch it to boil eggs 15% faster I never would be bothered. It's the same for regular people with all tech, computers included. People don't want to know the details, they just want to tap on a movie/book/app/whatever, confirm their transaction, and have it all just work.

The iPad can run iPhone apps, and the SDK is available now. App developers will be falling over each other to be first with new apps taking advantage of the larger screen.

I'm very tempted, but still skeptical I'll buy this myself. The closed platform is an issue for me. But most people couldn't care less about what they can't do on a device like this, if they just can do all they want. Freedom is great, but how many of us have truly bothered to go under the hood in our games consoles for instance? I can do all I truly need with our Wii even if I can't run SCUMMVM. Hell, I don't even have time to play all the games I've bought.

The iPad will be a great example of good enough technology. "The internet", in your lap, on this amazing looking little device. With movies, books, music and apps to boot. Joe and Jane Average are gonna think it's great.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Hannahzee]

"The internet", in your lap, on this amazing looking little device. With movies, books, music and apps to boot. Joe and Jane Average are gonna think it's great.

Joe and Jane Average do not have an extra $500 -$860 plus another 30/mo in addition to their cellphone and wireless internet costs to drop on "the Internet", movies, books, and apps in their laps when they have a laptop which does the just about the same thing already.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[autophile]

The iPad can run iPhone apps, and the SDK is available now. App developers will be falling over each other to be first with new apps taking advantage of the larger screen.

Isn't it the case that yes, the SDK is available, but you would still have to go through the app store to get your app into the hands of The People? And that means jumping through the Apple app store hoops?

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Max Romantschuk]

I likely would not. Thousands of iPhone app devs have already, however.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Reformed Lurker]

Mod poster up. My wife, who thinks I sound like Charlie Brown's teacher when I mention technical terms (like "mouse") abosolutely loves the iPhone she got in November, and constantly finds ways to use it whenever she can - without needing my help. She'll eat this iPad up. It's people like her who will make this a success. Easy to use; fits their needs. Their target market is not slashdot (except to entice developers to get on-board).

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Max Romantschuk]

Joe and Jane Average do not have an extra $500 -$860 plus another 30/mo in addition to their cellphone and wireless internet costs to drop on "the Internet", movies, books, and apps in their laps when they have a laptop which does the just about the same thing already.

I have yet to see a laptop which is comfortable to use on a bus/train commute. The world is larger than the US, and public transportation actually works in a lot of places. Also, unlimited 3G data is 10€ a month here.

I've been looking for a decent PDF-capable ereader for my own commute for ages. This is definitely a candidate.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[riffzifnab]

Right idea, wrong product. You're thinking about a ChromeOS laptop. It's the internet in your lap, it will just work and it will be fast. It also wont cost $500 per device.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[proslack]

Joe and Jane Average aren't even going to know it exists. Joe Techie and Jane Hipster might.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[servognome]

Totally agree with you, the iPad needs to be looked at in terms of a media delivery platform. Unfortunately, Jobs put it squarely in competition with netbooks, which this would not replace for many users. The iPad lacks the capabilities and flexibility to really replace a good keyboard and touchpad device.
At it's size it's not a phone, it's not a camera, and not really a convenient music player. I see this device in its basic form aimed at replacing the portable DVD player and ebook reader.
The community will ultimately decide whether it's just a bigger iPod meant for video and books, or if it truly is a breakthrough product. It has a lot of things going for it in terms of form factor and computing power. A few great apps will make this device compelling in a number of different markets.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[jpmorgan]

The iPhone was successful as a new platform because it was a phone. A lot of people got iPhones initially because it was a phone + iPod. That, and a certain amount of Apple fanboyism was enough. The question is, is the iPad going to be compelling enough to get the same kind of traction as the iPhone did? And from what I'm seeing on the internet, the early adopters are not impressed.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want my stove in the kitchen to require a friggin manual to do basic cooking even if I could patch it to boil eggs 15% faster I never would be bothered.

Of course you would ;-). Are you seriously telling me that you'd be able to resist a Linux powered, programmable stove?

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[mako1138]

Yeah, I think the iPad will be attractive to normal folks. It certainly gives a prospective netbook buyer something to think about.

Like you, I don't like closed platforms. The iPad is pretty and would be fun to play with, but I can't see myself getting one until it gets jailbroken.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[nickyj]

Most people just want stuff to work, and don't want to care how.

Flash will not just work.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Eil]

There have been a few times where I've seriously considered plunking down some cash and getting a Mac Mini to use as my primary desktop at home, for the sole reason of having a nice fluid well-engineered interface and set of tools for my increasing interest in web development.

But if this is the direction that OS X is headed down, I don't want any part of it. I suspect that Apple is trying to get to the point where the desktop version of OS X (as we know it) will eventually be available only to developers while the locked-down iPhone/iPod/iPad OS will be the standard on all of Apple's consumer-level hardware like laptops and desktops.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed.

the ipad is good enough as far a i'm concerned to sell to all my parents, grandparerents, and parents-in-law.

done

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[CODiNE]

Ya know with all the emulated games showing up on the iPhone lately it seems to me that SCUMMVM is missing their chance.

Make the app free and sell inside the app (after making agreements with the owners) ... Broken Sword may be possible, Beyond A Steel Sky, etc... several companies have freewared their games or would be glad to make such an agreement with the SCUMMVM guys. It doesn't seem like they're forced to be for just jailbroken phones anymore.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Anonymous Coward]

A platform that plays exactly none of my DvD rips.... PS3 needs "main profile level 4.0"(i'm using High Profile level 4.1), this thing needs "Main profile level 3.0" Actually thats my complaint with the whole of H264 land... you get to say "Plays H264 videos" with out specifying which parts you support. My phone(nokia 5310) plays H246 videos as well, 480x320 base profile level 2.0 or some shit like that. Anyways it can go to hell until i can run linux or OSX on it.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Quantumstate]

Try getting a tablet PC. You can get some which have a keyboard as well so you just flip the screen over and turn it into a tablet. Best of both worlds except it is a bit thicker and heavier. They are used a bit here at university because you can easily write notes on them with a stylus.

Re:The iPad is a Platform

[Max Romantschuk]

I know, but so far they are all too expensive for what I would be doing with them... Newer generations of atom and associated HD decoding chips will hopefully change that.

Notebooks are cheap, open, and Not Shiny

[billstewart]

It's definitely a different kind of market.

Just wait for their next announcement...

[Daetrin]

It's immature, i know, but the name keeps making me think that they will announce a stylus for use with the iPad, called the iTampon.

But there is an option for 3G - unlocked at that

[Dasher42]

Why are so many outlets reporting no 3G? It's optional, it's using GSM micro-SIM, it's unlocked. Oy. It's all over the place at sites like this. Don't jump the gun!

Re:Taking Jobs at his word--misquoted

[sribe]

It was actually "way more intimate than a laptop, way better than a phone"--which makes sense.

Sadly, this is the entry item

[MistrBlank]

It's a product entry, just like the original iPhone was. Now we just need tons of applications and iPad 4G and it will be a golden device.

Why would anyone get excited over 3G in this? I'd still rather pay $60 over $30 a month and get a MiFi that I can use my iPhone, iPad, netbook, Xbox, PSP and home computers with.

Why doesn't this have wireless syncing? Don't tell me they can't do it, the AppleTV does it easily. Why does this still use that crappy dock connector, which also requires me to display the device in portrait mode on a dock? Why doesn't it instead use the magnetic charger like the Macbook Air? Can it use Airtunes speakers? Where are the speakers located? What is the screen resolution?

How is it Apple spent an hour and a half and told us nothing important about the product?

Mac system requirements

[mblase]

According to Apple's tech specs this thing requires OS X 10.5.8 to sync to a Mac, but WinXP is okay for a PC.

What the hey? I've got an older Mac that syncs fine with my iPod nano; can anyone explain why Apple would alienate all their own OS X 10.4 users?

Re:Mac system requirements

[Anonymous Coward]

... but WinXP is okay for a PC. ... can anyone explain why Apple would alienate all their own OS X 10.4 users?

They don't need to pander to those who already wear the slave collar; those who might be tempted to try one on, though, that's another matter.

Re:Mac system requirements

[itsdapead]

this thing requires OS X 10.5.8 to sync to a Mac, but WinXP is okay for a PC. [snip] can anyone explain why Apple would alienate all their own OS X 10.4 users?

Because a big enough proportion of Mac users have upgraded from your 2005 version of Apple's OS to make it economical for them to drop support.

Meanwhile, Microsoft has had a rather well-publicized spot of bother tearing the 2001 version of their OS from the cold, dead hands of their users - so dropping support for XP would potentially alienate more PC users than there are users of any Apple OS.

In other news, Steve doesn't love you anymore because he hasn't heard from your wallet in 3 years.

just don't drop it

[sucati]

what's the over/under on days until you drop it and it explodes into pieces

All I'm wating for....

[s0litaire]

...is to see iFixit's teardown if the iPad...

3G adapter is built in

[nmg196]

Why do nearly all new sites and the slashdot summary all say "no 3G connection built in" when Steve Jobs so clearly talked about the 3G version of the device and even showed a price list of what it would cost? Have I somehow got the wrong end of the stick? Do you need an external adapter??

See here for picture

Re:3G adapter is built in

[rotide]

No, there are "base" models with _no_ 3G adapter built in and then there are the "3G" versions which are a carbon copy of all the base models but with a 3G adapter built in at a $130 higher tag. Basically, there are 6 versions of the iPad.

Now Apple will just sell you a screen

[Anonymous Coward]

The only way Apple has ever been able to sell consumer technology below $1000 is by selling you a screen. Joking aside the more I think about it the more screwed up this is.

I still can't keep my whole music collection on a single device. I have to attach a hard disk instead. ( I realize this is a special case - but I don't need to just listen to Bob Dylan or the Beatles all the time - there's a larger Universe of sound out there than those jokers)

It doesn't look like I can use Darwin and do shell scripting either. People who use computing devices are not an insignificant minority.

From and ergonomic perspective typing with this in my lap is not going to work. It will slip all over the table.

This is definitely a situation where the tools we use begin to shape us and in this case, not in a good way at all.

The name makes me laugh but having been a fan of Apple, it's actually quite sad how useless this thing will become no matter how much they sell.

Would have been a better graphics tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

Adding a stylus and combining the pressure-sensitive functionality of a Wacom graphics tablet, with the ability to see results on the drawing surface itself, would have been a far better marketing angle and would serve to cement Apple's position as a premiere content-creation platform.

From what I've seen there is no compelling use-case to warrant buying one of these devices, which (correct me if I'm wrong) is for all intents and purposes less functional than an iPhone.

Disappointing.

[MaWeiTao]

This thing would have been far more appealing to me if it ran a customized version of OSX, in essence making it a more portable alternative to a laptop. Instead we get a glorified iPod touch chained, as are those devices, to the app store. While a tablet PC is very appealing to me I can get a netbook, which offers more functionality, for less money.

And I'm convinced neither the iPod nor this thing supports Flash for the simple reason that it would undermine the app store. As it stands this thing is pretty disappointing. I was looking forward to a proper tablet PC. Way better than a laptop or phone he says when for me it's got the worst of both. It's too big to carry around like an iPhone and doesn't have nearly the functionality of a laptop, at least not without being nickel and dimed for that functionality.

Re:Disappointing.

[frank_adrian314159]

This thing would have been far more appealing to me if it ran a customized version of OSX...

He wasn't building it for you.

OK, snottiness aside, it probably would be much better for the geeks out here (and maybe a few professional Mac users out there) if it did have a full OS X running on it. On the other hand, most people don't give a rat's ass about what OS is on their computer. What they care about is (a) can it do what I want; (b) if it can't do what I want right now, can I easily get software that lets me do what I want; (c) is it easy to use; and (d) is it not a PITA to maintain/keep stable. The iPad, as a closed environment with a ton of apps and good enough connectivity (OK, good enough connectivity if you get AT&T to get it's act together) provides that. Most people won't care what OS it runs. And, in fact, as a device that converges music playing, e-book reading and movie watching I think he's hit the entertainment-oriented market he wanted to hit.

And for those who want a full-featured OS, there's still the Mac.

Re:Disappointing.

[jo42]

iPhone OS is a customized version of OS X (running on an ARM chip) - they share over 80% of their source code...

Re:Disappointing.

[nick.cash]

And for those who want a full-featured OS, there's still the Mac.

Hopefully that stays true! I've said this a few times today, but part of me is very afraid that this is part of a bigger, overall move by Apple to transition to more of the iPhone OS on more devices than OS X. I was really expecting this device to run actual OS X, perhaps with some limitations, but I was clearly wrong. But it makes some sense that that's where they're headed... and now I wouldn't be at all surprised if the next round of Mac Books run this dumbed-down iPhone OS instead of true OS X... and who knows from there?

If this happens, I'll be extremely sad. OS X is a breath of fresh air in the operating system world. I've run more OSes than any normal person, and more still than many hobbyists, and yet OS X is very much my favorite. I'd hate to see it cast aside by Apple because they don't want to make real computers any more.

iHype

[slasho81]

The amount of superlatives they used this time in the keynote was phenomenal.

Well, I don't really know what to think.

[Anonymous Coward]

In a way, ti doesn't have multitasking (how the hell can such an advanced device not have multitasking? That's insane), it doesn't have a camera (c'mon, this would be very nice to use Skype for instance), and it still doesn't support flash (which for me it's the biggest problem of the device, it should just be open ... anybody should be able to program for it in which language you have a compiler for in Mac OSX and do whatever they want to do ... and one of the first in the list would be flash. Apple is being greedy wanting everything to pass by the App Store and get their share).

On the other side a kindle DX costs $490 for christ sake if I had use for a Kindle DX, I would certainly be happier and better served by the iPad.

Re:But there is an option for 3G - unlocked at tha

[rotide]

Not all models are 3G enabled. If you watched the presentation you would have noted that the 3G versions are $130 more expensive than the non-3G versions.

Wonder if "MiFi" would be cheaper tho?

[JSBiff]

One interesting possibility, particularly if you think you'll have more than one iPad, iPhone, etc in your household might be to just get a Mifi(Myfi?) type device - you know, one of those Wifi-to-3G gateway devices some of the cell companies are trying to sell. It might not be cheaper for a single iPad (the number I saw listed for the 3G versions of the iPad was +$130 more than the 'base' iPad price). But if you have 2 or 3 of the iPads, Mifi seems like a better way to go?

Re:Wonder if "MiFi" would be cheaper tho?

[Theswager]

Who is going to have 2 or 3 iPads? I family might have multiple ones but they would either be at home where they could use regular WiFi, or separated during the day where MiFi would be useless for all of them. Now that would make sense for someone who had an iPod Touch and a Laptop that they wanted to use when they were out of the house rather than buy an iPhone+Data-plan and Laptop+3G adapter.

Magical + Corner of Technology & Liberal Arts

[Steauengeglase]

As an IT worker that sounds like the most horrible place on Earth.

Looks like house boat syndrome to me...

[SandBender]

It isn't a good house and it isn't a good boat...

Ya? But how absorbant is it?

[DarthVain]

KeKeKeKeKe!

I couldn't help myself...

[Anonymous Coward]

really just thought it had to be done...

http://www.itslennysfault.com/stuff/ipad.jpg

Reality Distortion Field

[stonecypher]

I lol'd while reading Jobs talking about how awesome it is to look at something on a rotated screen on a laptop, because I was reading it on a rotated screen on my year old laptop, and I have been doing generally that for the last ten years on my various other laptops.

All the same, Apple fans will be sure Steve invented this, just like they're sure he invented multitouch, standardized motion control, et cetera.

Ok

[Sycraft-fu]

Let's see. Web browsing, sure though lacking Flash is an issue. Lot of Flash sites these days. Not saying it is a good thing, but it is what it is. Book reading, not so much. For one, the battery life is fairly short compared to most readers. With a Kindle or a Nook, you are talking weeks of battery life, not hours. LCDs also aren't as nice as eink (or real paper) for long periods of reading. Plus you aren't going to get good outdoor performance. You need a reflective screen for that, there's no way you can crank the brightness enough on an emissive screen and keep the battery life useful.

Watching movies? Maybe, but of course Flash is how one watches movies online that is right out. There's also the question of how you get non-online movies to it, doesn't appear to have USB or SD card the like so you have to transfer everything wirelessly from your desktop and then save them on the small internal memory.

Re:Ok

[doconnor]

Flash is a concern that may be fixed with time.

The battery life is long enough if you remember to charge it every couple of days.

eink works better in bright sunlight, but can't work in the dark. lcd can work in bright sunlight with the right angle, and can work in the dark.

The should be enough room to store a few movies or they could be streamed from you media server.

Re:Ok

[Totenglocke]

There's also the question of how you get non-online movies to it, doesn't appear to have USB or SD card the like so you have to transfer everything wirelessly from your desktop and then save them on the small internal memory.

One of the accessories for the iPad is a SD card reader - I would assume that this would allow you to access music, movies, ebooks, and documents stored on the SD card.

Re:Ok

[exomondo]

Watching movies? Maybe, but of course Flash is how one watches movies online that is right out.

But who wants to watch movies on a 4:3 screen anyway.

Re:Ok

[DragonWriter]

Watching movies? Maybe, but of course Flash is how one watches movies online

Or HTML5 video, which YouTube (who has recently entered contract to get TV content) has started to support, and which Safari supports.

There's also the question of how you get non-online movies to it, doesn't appear to have USB or SD card the like so you have to transfer everything wirelessly from your desktop and then save them on the small internal memory.

It comes with a dock connector and a cable to connect the dock connector to a USB port on a computer (just like iPods, iPhones, etc.), and there is an "Camera Connector" accessory that includes both a USB connector and an SD card reader that can be used to transfer videos and photos from SD cards. So, I would say your "you must transfer everything wirelessly from your desktop" description is just plain wrong.

Re:Ok

[93 Escort Wagon]

Let's see. Web browsing, sure though lacking Flash is an issue. Lot of Flash sites these days. Not saying it is a good thing, but it is what it is.

I dunno... people on this site seem to absolutely hate Flash - except when it's useful to bring up the iPhone's (and now iPad's) lack of a Flash player.

On my laptop I browse the web with FlashBlock or ClickToFlash, as do many folks here - and in my experience, blocking Flash significantly enhances my web browsing experience. Most of those "lots of Flash sites" I run into are mainly using it to serve annoying ads. I know there are exceptions, and I'm only one guy - but right now I can't think of a site I use where this blocking Flash is a problem.

Re:Ok

[DragonWriter]

But who wants to watch movies on a 4:3 screen anyway.

As opposed to a 16:9 screen? Anyone who wants to see anything originally filmed for IMAX without big black bars on the sides. (IMAX is 1.43:1, which is just a little wider than 4:3, and a lot more square than 16:9.)

Re:Ok

[quenda]

One of the accessories for the iPad is a SD card reader -

"accessories"!? A 10" screen but no SD card slot or USB host? That's miserly even for Apple.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

Disappointing. I mean, 500 bucks for just an LCD glass, 16G flash and an unheard-of processor...?? They'll make a ton of money selling this, I bet. There's no microphone, no camera, no Skype, no way to telecommunicate with this one. Not even USB for connecting external camera or microphone. That's just a platform for selling apps.

Re:Taking Jobs at his word--misquoted

[DoofusOfDeath]

It was actually "way more intimate than a laptop, way better than a phone"--which makes sense.

So it's some kind of fancy vibrator?

What the hell

[jim_v2000]

"So $499 for 16GB of iPad," Jobs explained. "That's our base model. 32GB is $599, 64GB is $799"

The fucking price goes from mediocre $499 to an insane $799 for an extra 48GB of space?

Re:What the hell

[Adult film producer]

No worries.. the chinese knockoff will be available on ebay for $199 in a year.

Re:What the hell

[Sechr Nibw]

See, it's tempting to say, "No, the GP got it wrong, it's only $699 for the 64 GB" but that would just be wrong. It's $499 for the base model, $100 for the first 16 GB upgrade, then $100 for another 32 GB, and $130 for 3G & GPS. There really isn't room in there for a "just" anything, except maybe multitasking. How much is it for that upgrade?

better info than sites in summary on apples page

[thenextstevejobs]

Lots of info here: http://www.apple.com/ipad

Name already in use.

[base3]

Wonder if the guy who wrote this will be upset.

Re:Name already in use.

[bill_mcgonigle]

Sucks to be him:

Hmm, the page you're looking for can't be found.

Let's see how long it takes the MadTV prior art to get taken down.

Re:Name already in use.

[base3]

I knew there was a reason I printed that to PDF before I posted! Also, archive.org has got it, at least until the takedown there.

Re:Name already in use.

[base3]

And of course I replied to myself. Please see my reply to your post above :)!

Re:Name already in use.

[bill_mcgonigle]

And of course I replied to myself. Please see my reply to your post above :)!

Nice. Too bad the developer's site has gone to the squatters.

The point...

[bonch]

Instead of thinking of it as big, expensive iPod touch, think of it as a smaller, cheaper MacBook.

Negatives...

[LeonPierre]

Off the top of my head:

No GPS on WiFi unit (only A-GPS on 3G unit).

No camera.

Still no flash on the new processor that "screams".

And to add speculation:

I'd wager that AT&T's data plan for it will forbid any VOIP from going through the "unlimited" data plan.

Something the world DIDN'T need...

[logicassasin]

...was a bigger iPod Touch.

I stick by my earlier statement that the name makes it sound like digital Kotex. However, it mus be noted that Steve Jobs may have his first Edsel on his hands.

Seriously, the ASUS Eee PC T91MT gives you more of a computer for a bit less than the cost of this iPad (I chuckle every time I read or type that). REAL applications, REAL OS (not a "gadget" os), REAL everything! It's a tablet and a netbook at once. Approx $450 gets you 32GB SSD, 1GB RAM, and Win 7 all in a small package with a proven processor underneath it all.

$50 more get's you less drive space, an unknown amount of RAM, and a gadget OS running on what appears to be a 2010 version of the Cyrix MediaGX processor.

Steve needs to take some time off and rethink this one.

Re:Something the world DIDN'T need...

[coxymla]

*First* Edsel?

I guess this is the old thing about forgetting the failures and celebrating the successes. NeXT, iPod HiFi, G4 Cube, etc.

Re:Something the world DIDN'T need...

[lazyforker]

The Asus is thicker and heavier. This matters to me when I'm trying to read on the subway or in bed; or when I'm sitting on the sofa. At the moment I use a netbook or an older 15" laptop for casual websurfing or remote control of my htpc - this device would be a book/newspaper, remote control, web browser and casual gaming toy all in one. I don't see myself using iWork on it though - that seems more like a gimmick to me.

Re:Something the world DIDN'T need...

[Big_Mamma]

A quick comparison:

iPad: iPhone OS. T91MT: Windows 7 home premium included, runs any other x86 OS.
iPad: No multitasking. T91MT: Yes. Even better with a $40 upgrade for a 2GB stick of ram.
iPad: Safari only. T91MT: Firefox and Chrome for me, oh, and it has flash too. IE is also an option but noone uses that :P
iPad: App store only. T91MT: Anything x86.
iPad: Has notepad. T91MT: can run the full version of Office / Onenote, Windows Journal is free. Best hand writing recognition, has math support.
iPad: SketchBook Mobile. Finger only. T91MT: SketchBook Pro, Corel Painter, Inkscape and lots more. Has stylus, only lack a pressure sensitive pen.
iPad: Dockable keyboard. T91MT: Convertible tablet.

After a few weeks of serious use, I must say that while having a touch screen is a major plus, you won't be entering a lot of text with the on screen keyboard. Seriously, even a longer url can take a while to write with tapping letters or writing and correcting letters, and complex passwords have a random chance to fail. I only use the tablet mode during note taking, browsing the read-only web, watching videos and reading pdfs in full screen mode, the speed difference in text entry is just too large. Be ready to bring the wireless keyboard with the iPad all the time.

Re:Something the world DIDN'T need...

[ukyoCE]

$50 gets you an OS and apps with interfaces made specifically for the iPad, as a massive upgrade over WindowsXYZ

Fixed that for you. Tablets and netbooks are nothing new, but they've never been successful so far. The software and interfaces have all sucked.

The Flava-Flav of iPhones

[twilliam]

Get Flava Flav to put an iPad around his neck for a week and tell everyone it's his new custom iPhone.

Apple Needs To Ditch AT&T

[TheNinjaroach]

I can't believe Apple has married another mobile device to AT&T, which immediately renders the 3G model useless for me. I was expecting to hear an announcement about Apple on Verizon for both iPhone and iPad. Instead it sounds like it is more of the same, at some point AT&T's lack of adequate coverage is going to hurt Apple's image.

Re:Apple Needs To Ditch AT&T

[Prien715]

Did you miss the "major carrier announcement" coming in June or the "iPad will ship unlocked" part of the presentation?

Re:Apple Needs To Ditch AT&T

[TheNinjaroach]

Unlocked for GSM carriers, so my choices are the worst network in the nation (T-Mobile) or the second worst (AT&T). I know that CDMA isn't compatible with the rest of the world, but its networks are far better developed here in the States than all of our GSM networks combined.

No Flash? No deal, and it's not just youTube

[yodleboy]

Well... As soon as I saw this, I said "must have now" and then I saw "No Flash". Apple is essentially crippling the internet to protect their media position. Sorry Steve, I have an iPhone and I have come to terms with lack of flash on it. However, for a device that's intended to compete with a netbook and be a portable computing platform, this just won't cut it. Give us 6 months and we'll be seeing iPad clones in droves anyway. Devices that won't sacrifice functionality in order to protect their media distribution channel. It's really sad, because I was ready to swap this with my iPhone and get a bare bones cheap phone for calls. Every time the lack of flash on iphone and now ipad is brought up, the debate revolves largely around video, and to a lesser degree around gaming. Unfortunately, you're missing the bigger picture. It's not the big media sites, it's the little unexpected things, like when I go to a restaurant website to place a takeout order and the whole menu is only available as a flash app. it happens frequently. The flash issue for me is about these little interface apps that, without flash, are unusable; not some big honkin, cpu gobbling media site. Sure, the designers should have a non flash version, but with 98% of internet connected pc's having flash installed, well you can see why they don't bother.

Re:No Flash? No deal, and it's not just youTube

[Overzeetop]

Flash omission does seem like a pretty big miss for a couch-surfer. The reason you won't see clones too quickly is that there isn't an OS for them. Until/unless Google updates android for the bigger devices and gets serious about an "app store," any other device will flounder without a major UI design team to make the device useful. MS has effectively written off the consumer market in the tablet arena (no decent finger-based UI in any of their products, including winmobile).

Until everyone unwrites their sites for flash (a good thing, imho), surfing "for real" on a flashless device is going to be frustrating.

 

Re:No Flash? No deal, and it's not just youTube

[CxDoo]

what do you mean by 'iPad clones'? Slates market is well and alive for many moons, covering a variety of platforms.

This post brought to you from fully functional Windows 7 on a Fujitsu Siemens ST5031D. Look it up; it is a couple of years old design, and still better spec'd then iPad.

Re:No Flash? No deal, and it's not just youTube

[yodleboy]

i mean "ipad clones" in the same way that i would mean "iphone clones". sure there were smartphones out there, but let's be honest, until the iphone came out, most of them (and i went through many of the "best" available in the US) lacked in both interface and functionality. The iPhone showed what a smartphone SHOULD do and made it desirable by the masses. Have you noticed how a smartphone without a touch screen interface is a non starter these days?

Of course, there are slates out there, but how many have the level of refinement, usability and desirability that the iPad has? They may be better specced, but to the average Joe, details like that will take a back seat to form. Like past smartphones, most slates shout "geek". I would expect iPad clones to branch from the slate designs and now that apple has raised the bar, they will be copying it as much as possible.

Air 2.0

[Slash.Poop]

I don't see the market, but that is just me.

iBachelor

[yabba-dabba-do]

The iPad sounds like a place an iBachelor would live. He might even try bring his iDates back to his iPad...

Surfing with the Alien

[xactuary]

E.T. here. WTF? I can't use it to phone home?

iWhat

[Anonymous Coward]

iWhat? uSuck!

Pros vs Cons

[docbrody]

Cons:
- No Flash
- No WebCam
- No Microphone
- No Multi-Tasking
- No HD Video (1024x768)
- No Front facing speakers
Pros:
- Great for watching Porn
- Will greatly enhance the experience of taking a dump
- Bright Screen, good viewing angle
- 140k apps already
- Seems very very fast and responsive
- Thin and light
- Unlike Kindle, no night light required
- Price (of base model)
- Battery life

Re:Pros vs Cons

[logicassasin]

price of the base model is $50 more than a multi-touch ASUS Eee PC T91MT, which has more features.

Don't forget, you have to buy a keyboard and dock for the iPad (chuckle) just to get the functionality of the ASUS.

Re:Pros vs Cons

[jo42]

No HD Video (1024x768)

Actually, it does output 720p via a "Dock Connector to VGA adapter http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/.

It can even output the video and show something completely different on the unit's on-board display...

Re:Pros vs Cons

[docbrody]

Huh. That's pretty cool, but even so - 720p output via a doc connector still doesn't cut it in my book. If there is ever a doc conctr to hdmi that could be cool though.

Re:Pros vs Cons

[docbrody]

Yeah but the UI on the t91mt sux ass (my opinion) and the muti touch is not responsive for simple shit like smooth scrolling. That being said, the 499 iPad has only 16gb storage so that's kind of a bait and switch. At least for my needs, 32gb is probably the least I'd want. And the 3g probably can't be used for tethering of any kind.

Re:Pros vs Cons

[mxh83]

720p is NOT hd.

Re:Pros vs Cons

[slim]

Feel free to make up your own definitions of HD.

However, a 720p TV is allowed to display the HD logo.

Re:Pros vs Cons

[docbrody]

turns out it has a Mic so thats off the list of cons. ALSO I forgot to include AT&T as a major con - should have been first on the list

Re:Pros vs Cons

[docbrody]

720p is NOT hd.

You are wrong....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television#High-definition_display_resolutions

Re:Magical + Corner of Technology & Liberal Ar

[gobbo]

As an IT worker that sounds like the most horrible place on Earth.

Way to keep up the Nerdly stereotypes! But the fact is that the whole future of networked computing is based on designed information, and that's where the liberal arts impacts the future of the web etc.: good design through aesthetics and smart human interfaces. Plus gud grammer and proofreeding.

The raw feature list is less important than the presentation abilities... as they pertain to joe user.

"Magical", though, that's just the Reality Distortion Field in full fail mode.

LoC

[Anonymous Coward]

No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

No neural interface. Less space than the Library of Congress. Lame.

iPad?

[countertrolling]

What, is this along the lines of, "I was going to drive over to my girlfriend's house, but I lost my khakis?

What's wrong with ARM?

[JSBiff]

Don't get me wrong, it might be very cool to see another design enter the market place (*if* it was superior to the existing alternatives), but I suspect Apple wanted to get a product shipped, and starting from scratch to create a whole new CPU design would have added years and many millions of dollars to the cost of designing the unit, wouldn't it? For what benefit? I suppose with years of R&D, Apple could develop a new architecture that had better performance/power consumption than an ARM, but ARM is really pretty good for performance/power (better than anything x86 based).

It's like, you use x86 if you want to run Windows and/or want the top performance, but don't really care about power consumption/battery life. For any applications where you want a useable level of performance but very lower power consumption, you use ARM. Well, I *suppose* they could have gone back to PowerPC, or maybe MIPS; is MIPS still alive? Seems like MIPS had been trailing ARM in the performance/power consumption curve, but at the *very* low end where you want cheap and lower power, but don't need much performance, MIPS was king?

Might have been interesting to see a PowerPC iPad - use Intel for the high-end Mac workstations and Macbook Pro laptops, and use PowerPC for the iPad, but I think part of the reason to go with ARM for the iPad was to maintain maximum compatibility with the iPhone/iPod Touch.

The iPad nano is available too

[kindbud]

Check it out.

I CALLED IT.

[Anonymous Coward]

I knew it would cost $500-1000. Apple always overprices their products.

- PC.

Re:I CALLED IT.

[Quill_28]

Overpriced for you. Products are not over-priced if they sell well, which apple products appear to do.

Big ass iPod Touch - I don't think so

[thetoadwarrior]

It is truly just a big ass iPod Touch and just as closed up as an iPod so no flash, no Java, no choice. Just lots of pretty colours for guys in turtle neck sweaters.

my reaction

[Anonymous Coward]

no keyboard. less space than a netbook. lame.

Might be perfect computer for mom.

[hostmaster]

I don't think it's going to be another iphone, the market for tablets is not as big as that for smart-phones. But, I don't think it will be an apple-tv either.

It effectively kills the "electronic photo-book" market. People are paying 70-150 for those things, that is now gone. I like the leather-ish case which turns it into a keyboard type stand and into a photo-frame/tv stand, that seems like it will win some minds.

One wild-card in all of this is that it is the PERFECT computer to give your mom since it's got very simple icon entry into apps, and not too many complicated menus you have to sift through. That might just lift it into another category of sales. For people who use computer apps for different and varied tasks (say photoshop, or full-fledged spreadsheet use) this is never going to be enough. But for mom or grandma to keep photos rolling on her mantle so her friends can see them, to e-mail the kids, watch a few movies, maybe play some games, this may well be ideal.

My take is that this is not really designed for slashdot readers, it's yet another device to expand the market for apple computers to another type of user by offering a simple interface and the most frequently used features. I suspect they'll succeed, especially since the entry-price is reasonable.

Re:Might be perfect computer for mom.

[mliu]

I don't see this as killing the electronic photo-book market at all. This thing at cheapest is 3 times the highest end of the range you quoted. Many people are not in the market for this thing but would like to display pictures.

It does seem like a good computer for mom though.

Re:Might be perfect computer for mom.

[sxtxixtxcxh]

this whole thread, and you're the only one who actually hit the nail on the head. let me guess, you spend the holidays doing tech support too?

GOOD; I hate flash!

[bussdriver]

Flash was a nice vector animation format that turned into a backdoor for everything JAVA Applets were not and the pain and poor integration of all the video plug-ins. Sure, the others helped make the need but Flash turned into a bloated security hole, browser crasher, and privacy problem.

HTML 5 and SVG will help to fix this.

Video shouldn't require a messy container kludge to run or a virtual machine. Have you ever noticed how much CPU flash kills trying to playback video that should hardly phase the system?

Why support Flash just for its lame video support? The real reason we use it is because everybody has the plug in already and we can save bandwidth by hosting video elsewhere for free while creating a larger exposure to the net... (you tube, the 2nd largest search engine.)

Youtube is going to html5 + h.264- the rest will follow; flash served its good, it can die soon.

Re:GOOD; I hate flash!

[gaspar ilom]

Ha ha ha! People will eventually write sluggish JavaScript code to animate HTML5/Canvas/SVG -- just wait and see. (and, this sluggish code will be trying to do many of the same things that are done in Flash, now!)

You want the version with the Unobtainium screen

[itsdapead]

I may still get a Kindle because of this reason.

...and that's probably a good choice if all you ever want to do with it is read black and white ebooks page-by-page - because current e-ink screens may be beautifully clear but they have refresh times measured in seconds, making them unusable for most other purposes.

Yes, there are better technologies in the pipeline. I'm sure Apple is watching them carefully - but you can't use last month's new screen technology in a product that's going into production this month.

SoC

[Singularity42]

Well apparently it's an SoC, but they are likely using external IP for different areas of the chip. So some of it is cool. One thing--wasn't the problem with G5 it being too hot? Don't see why they would go back to that for something portable.

Don't know about MIPS--might still be hanging around in embedded industrial.

But MIPS, PowerPC, ARM will all give you nicer stack traces than x86--is that too much to ask? I'd be fine with MacBooks inheriting this A4.

Re:SoC

[TeknoHog]

Well apparently it's an SoC, but they are likely using external IP for different areas of the chip. So some of it is cool. One thing--wasn't the problem with G5 it being too hot? Don't see why they would go back to that for something portable.

Apparently the CPU in iPad was designed by the former P. A. Semi designers. Before the Apple merger, they designed the Pwrficient, which was basically a G5 SoC, consuming a few watts at a GHz or two. An excellent processor on paper, but it was never available except on dev kits.

the internet-enabled panty liner

[cfriedt]

please tell me someone thought this was a funny name before i did...

Ad-supported streams?

[tepples]

I seem to remember that the TV networks already sell copies of episodes of their series through iTunes Store. But that doesn't match the advertiser-supported model of Hulu. Or has Apple recently introduced streaming video to iTunes?

With that weak processor?

[Overzeetop]

No, Jobs won't allow his new baby to stutter, and multi-tasking is just asking for a less brilliant user experience. 1GHz on an ARM is going to be necessarily limited in horsepower, and dividing that between several apps is going to lead to poor input response. Besides, he doesn't want to hear you complaining that your 10 hour iPad only lasts for 2 hours because you left your folding-at-home app running in the background. :-)

I'm kind of amazed it doesn't have a gps. Google maps is going to suck.

Re:With that weak processor?

[Anonymous Coward]

and multi-tasking is just asking for a less brilliant user experience

Really? I didn't know it was still 1968. All this perfectly fluid multitasking I do every day on other kinds of computers must be some sort of dream.

Re:With that weak processor?

[Zerth]

Hey, if it's running on ARM, you can stick linux on it. I wonder if it has any USB pads on the motherboard that could be wired to an internal GPS, like some people did with the EEE.

Re:With that weak processor?

[Anonymous Coward]

1GHz on an ARM is going to be necessarily limited in horsepower, and dividing that between several apps is going to lead to poor input response.

Motorola 68000, 8MHz seemed to handle pre-emptive multitasking just fine. Ah, progress!

Re:With that weak processor?

[Ma8thew]

I doubt there's anything extraneous on the motherboard. Apple designs those things to within an inch of their life. And it already has GPS anyway.

Re:With that weak processor?

[Zerth]

Only on the cell models, and assist GPS hardly counts. I like my GPS to work when I'm not in cell range.

Re:With that weak processor?

[quenda]

Hey, if it's running on ARM, you can stick linux on it.

I can run Linux on my iTouch!?
I wish. Its real Unix inside, so you can port command-line apps. to a jailbroken model, but no X-windows.

Re:With that weak processor?

[jesser]

I'm kind of amazed it doesn't have a gps. Google maps is going to suck.

According to the ipad specs page, the models with 3G will have AGPS. Which kinda makes sense -- AGPS relies on the cell network, and having location information without being able to accept maps isn't very useful.

Re:With that weak processor?

[Ma8thew]

No, assisted GPS means it has a full GPS chip, but in addition it uses cell towers for triangulation. This makes it better than unassisted GPS, because it has the possibility of being more accurate. And there'd be little point in having GPS on the WiFi model, because you'd need a third party app in make good use of it.

Re:With that weak processor?

[__aaxwdb6741]

Well that's true, except for all the whiners who THINK they're "good with computers" but then whine over how slow firefox/chrome/whatever is and how it takes "forever to load a simple webpage"...

This thing will be hacked in a manner of days from public release, and all your fancy multitasking needs will be accommodated.
But Jobs won't be to blame when you stuff it full of crapware and start spreading FUD about how it was 'always this shitty'...

No, single-tasking and appstore are just really, really good ways of accommodating 95% of the customer base AND keeping them happy about their hardware. Good motherfucking product design!

Re:With that weak processor?

[Zerth]

Sure, it'd be more accurate if you're in range, but some AGPS offload initial fix calculations to the cell network. No network means really long time-to-fix and worse battery performance.

Re:With that weak processor?

[Ma8thew]

Not true. Out of range, A-GPS acquires a fix just as fast as regular GPS, with the same battery expenditure (although a phone or tablet likely wouldn't achieve a fix as fast as a dedicated device, since it will probably have a worse receiver in it). In range though, it can get a fix faster than a regular GPS device.

There is no such thing as a homogeneous customer b

[elnyka]

Let's see. Web browsing, sure though lacking Flash is an issue. Lot of Flash sites these days. Not saying it is a good thing, but it is what it is. Book reading, not so much. For one, the battery life is fairly short compared to most readers. With a Kindle or a Nook, you are talking weeks of battery life, not hours. LCDs also aren't as nice as eink (or real paper) for long periods of reading. Plus you aren't going to get good outdoor performance. You need a reflective screen for that, there's no way you can crank the brightness enough on an emissive screen and keep the battery life useful.

Watching movies? Maybe, but of course Flash is how one watches movies online that is right out. There's also the question of how you get non-online movies to it, doesn't appear to have USB or SD card the like so you have to transfer everything wirelessly from your desktop and then save them on the small internal memory.

I dunno, but I would find one of these things to be extremely useful for reading indoors/at night when plugged to an outlet. I have a ton of reading/listening media, PDFs and powerpoint doc$s that *I must read* as part of my work and current studies, and which I can't use on my kindle.

Having one of these would be extremely useful, but I won't buy since I've already invested on my kindle. Perhaps next year when the prices drop. I'm sure there will be better versions of this device, but using an *obsolete* one (obsolete by then) would be fine for me.

There are uses for this thing, and obviously there are usage patterns for which you'll be better served with a netbook or a full-blown laptop. There is no such thing as a homogeneous customer base when it comes to electronic devices.

huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an Apple fanboi through and through. I will be buried in either an iCasket or an iUrn, depending on whether I get cremated or not (note: $250 extra for a black iUrn).

But ... huh? I totally don't get it. I want to get it, I want to like it, but, somehow, it just don't make sense.

Enough about apple for fucks sakes

[BitZtream]

Look, I'll openly admit that I'm an Apple fanboy. I like my MBP, I like my iPhone.

But do we really fucking need a 'rumor round up' post, followed 4 hours later with a post about the rumored product, BEFORE they even fucking tell you about it?

What are we going to do tomorrow? Have a round up of who got the rumors wrong or right, and a 'why the ipad will fail' discussion for the anti-apple fanboys?

Timothy-

When you're in such a hurry to post a story that you can't wait 15 minutes to get the actual details, then you need to see a doctor. I like to get the latest info quick, but pretty much everyone would rather get it correct 15 minutes later, rather than have to come back later to get the actual facts because you were in such a big hurry to get the Frost Piss.

News for Nerd.

Not: Speculation for the idiots with no patients.

Re:Enough about apple for fucks sakes

[Anonymous Coward]

Patience, possibly.

I'm not sure if we would want idiots with patients.

should have used a hybrid e-ink display

[cfriedt]

Does it work without a backlight in direct sunlight too?

Version 2.0 !

Oh Slashdot

[Prien715]

I remember similair comments when Nintendo announced the Wii.

Remember how that went?

I feel a great disturbance in the force...

[RockClimbingFool]

...as if millions of iSheep gizzed their pants when Steve Jobs showed them they could see a whole webpage at once!!!

It's called OpenCL

[tepples]

Can't Adobe write part of the decoder in OpenCL so that it runs on the GPU?

Disappointed.

[Azureflare]

I own a lot of Apple products and I must say I was very disappointed in this presentation. Two major problems with the iPad will probably keep me from buying one.

1. LED backlit screen. This seems strange given the existence of PixelQi and mirasol type LCD displays. Not being able to read this outside really makes it useless as an ebook reader. Oh, and also the 10 hours of reading time is simply pathetic for an eReader.

2. No camera? What happened? This is very disappointing.

I must admit I have, in the past, thought it would be cool to have a large version of my iPhone to view movies in bed or browse the web before going to sleep, but honestly it is not worth the $500 price tag without the 2 features above.

I think I'll just stick with my iPhone, thanks. "Nice-to-haves" do not make product demand.

Re:Disappointed.

[nojayuk]

"1. LED backlit screen. This seems strange given the existence of PixelQi and mirasol type LCD displays."

The PixelQi panel is not available today in quantity ten million unlike the commodity low-resolution display designed into the iPad which is shipping now and has been for the past few years. The PixelQi panel is in high demand which means it costs a lot and that would cut into Apple's profit margins. Apple can't sell iPads at a thousnad-buck pricepoint hence no OLED displays.

"2. No camera? What happened? This is very disappointing."

Power and cost. The iPad has a 25Whr battery and it needs longer runtimes than a laptop to differentiate it from the existing market in laptops and especially netbooks. Adding a camera eats into the power budget. It also adds five or ten bucks to the BOM and that cuts into the profit margins.

Re:Disappointed.

[Azureflare]

The PixelQi screen is not OLED. It uses existing LCD fabs and is very low cost to produce.

Video of an early prototype from CES using the PixelQi screen with a touchscreen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy9fPc1yGSU

Re:Disappointed.

[aralin]

I mean, can you imagine holding this giant thing up to take photos? It is ridiculous and exactly the thing Apple would not do with its products. But I think there should have been front facing camera for video chat.

Re:Magical + Corner of Technology & Liberal Ar

[Prien715]

As an IT worker that sounds like the most horrible place on Earth.

Are you in China hanging out on the corner of the WoW sweatshop and the red light district? Would you like to? Outsourcing gives our company the cost control we need with the benefits you deserve!

Games

[Boawk]

I am curious to see how multi-touch gaming evolves. On the iPhone game controls are confined to a small area due to the size. I imagine there will be some pretty clever gaming innovation once developers apply their imagination to the multi-touch real estate.

um...

[chucklebutte]

This is how big the iPhone woulda been back in the 80's! So we get a big ugly iPhone/iPod with slower specs than the google nexus one... oh and without a camera...

Pointless

[nameless wimp]

I love my iPhone, but this serves no purpose that I can imagine.

Way better?

[stewbacca]

Does it have a phone? If not, how can it be way better than an iPhone? And by no counts will I consider this thing better than a laptop.

Is it fanless?

[Anonymous Coward]

See topic. Also, I love the price. Up until now, if you wanted a tablet computer, you've had to shell out over a thousand USD for one. I guess it takes an Apple to make things mainstream (see mp3 players and smartphones).

Re:Is it fanless?

[Azureflare]

All of what you said would be true, if this were actually a full function computer. However, this is just an oversized iPod Touch.

I'm afraid this is going to fail, hard. And I'm usually an Apple fanboi. Sadly, not this time...

Re:Is it fanless?

[Anonymous Coward]

"All of what you said would be true, if this were actually a full function computer."

What is it missing? I wouldn't define a full function computer as x86 + Windows.

Re:Is it fanless?

[Azureflare]

What I mean by full function computer is one with a real operating system, not a crippled version of an existing operating system. If it ran OS X and allowed installation of any application, then yeah, it would be full function.

Honestly I don't think it's reasonable to expect Apple to release a tablet with a full function OS like they have for their desktops due to the interface, but it still kind of sucks (for now). We'll see if the iPad App developers can pick up the ball and make some applications that make the iPad worth having beyond reading, writing and movie watching.

Re:Is it fanless?

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone'll crack it and let anyone put Linux on it :)

Yes, it is pocketable

[korpenkraxar]

Just make sure to get the iPants! http://www.jokesy.com/images/who-wears-the-trousers.jpg

Typical techies and gadget freaks

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

After reading the comments here and on Engadget, it just confirms that your average techie doesn't know a great new product when he sees it. So many people seem to be complaining that it doesn't have some certain deal-breaking hardware feature, yet they haven't even noticed the most important innovation: The software. The greatest part of this device simply flies over the head of so many people here because they have no understanding about what makes a computer great to use.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[Azureflare]

I beg to differ. I'm both a techie and an artist, and I have to say that it's the marriage of great hardware with great software that make a product great to use.

In this case it's missing some pretty important functionality: battery life is laughable in comparison to eReaders, can't use it outdoors, and no camera. Why would anyone want to get an iPad if they have an iPhone and a Kindle?

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[Princeofcups]

After reading the comments here and on Engadget, it just confirms that your average techie doesn't know a great new product when he sees it. So many people seem to be complaining that it doesn't have some certain deal-breaking hardware feature, yet they haven't even noticed the most important innovation: The software. The greatest part of this device simply flies over the head of so many people here because they have no understanding about what makes a computer great to use.

Exactly. Within minutes of the announcement people here at work were already talking about it. Besides, the original iPod didn't play games or movies, only music. This is just the first iteration of the product, and I'm sure that Apple has a roadmap of potential future functionality and features.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

What's supposed to be innovative about the software? It's exactly the same as an iPhone. "Doing the same thing on a slightly bigger screen" is not innovation.

Maybe next time round Apple will come up with some really innovative ideas, like multitasking, or some kind of clever interface where multiple applications can be displayed at once by dividing the screen into "windows".

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[iroll]

Why would anyone get an iPhone if they've got a Moto Razr and an iBook?

Why would anyone get an iBook if they've got a Dell on their desk?

Why would anyone get a Dell on their desk if they've got a terminal at work?

Why would anyone need a terminal at work, if they've got a punchcard machine three halls down?

That person may not need one "right now," but in a year or two they might either decide that they convergence device (of which I'm generally skeptical) either does the job just as well as a batman utility belt of other devices, or they may go for it as a lifestyle item, to replace their old gadgets. Or who knows, they might NOT have an iPhone and a Kindle... and let's face it, a lot of us don't.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[DeltaQH]

Ease of use, ease of use and ease of use.

Same problem with Iphone. Oh it does not have Trillion pixel camera, super processor, FM Radio, whatever?

Besides the user interface It is the integration of hardware+software that apple can achieve. It flight around other hardware with more bells and whistles but poorly integrated and with poor UI.

Just check Nokia.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[patSPLAT]

Actually you don't get it, the software is what makes this device nothing more than a giant iPhone. Which is absurd.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[amicusNYCL]

It may also be possible that it's a lot easier to communicate and discuss hardware specs than a software platform and interface.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[Macka]

Well said. I showed my Wife the Apple introductory video of this and she was drooling my the end of it. She's made it pretty clear that if I choose to get one I'd better get one for her too or there will be trouble LOL.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, list the great elements of the software. No multitasking on a 10" device. The same apps you get on the iPod Touch. This is not going anywhere revolutionary, its stagnant. It would have been better named: "iPod Touch Big".

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't seem to understand the product, the iPad uses the iPhone os and ui, so the software is not new at all. Which means that the sole reason to buy this product would be on the hardware features.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[cowscows]

So what exactly are you looking for that would've made this the next great thing?

I use the hell out of my iphone, and in my view the two things that most limit its usefulness are the slowness of 3G, and the size of the screen.

The benefits of a larger screen size obvious have some tradeoffs with regards to portability. But I see no problem with Apple offering two sides of the spectrum and letting consumers decide which features are more compelling.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Are You kidding me. You think that the software is the problem? Just go back a few days days to this Article (http://gizmodo.com/5452501/the-apple-tablet-interface-must-be-like-this) highlighted by slashdot on just how innovative the iPod Touch interface really is. The touch screen form factor lets the developer completely customize the interface to do exactly what the applicaiton needs done, without the baggage from any extra or unnecessary buttons it doesn't need. As other posters have pointed out, the software just works well and is intuitive for the average consumer user.

Anyone claiming that this device won't be a huge hit just needs to wait and see

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[wfolta]

"nothing more than a giant iPhone"... OK. The size difference is a GOOD thing. Yes, the iPhone web browser is amazingly good, but it's SMALL. No way I'll sit there and read a website I care about, unless I'm pretty much desperately bored. The iPhone calendar is very useful, but it's SMALL. You can't see an entire day's activities, and certainly not a week- or month-at-a-glance with any meaningful content. Photos on the iPhone are handled well, but they're SMALL. More like passing a stack of drugstore prints than actual photos.

On the other hand, carrying my laptop for things like that is overkill. And the bulky form factor dictated by a keyboard just makes it worse.

THAT is where the iPad comes in handy: something that's simpler, significantly smaller, and a better form factor than a laptop/netbook, but with a large enough screen that I can see an entire day's worth of activity, I can read a web page basically as large as on my laptop, and I can see photos that are the size of photos. And read a book that's the size of a book: not the size of a deck of cards, and not the size of an old-school atlas.

So even if it were ONLY a giant iPhone (iPod Touch, really), it'd be a good and desirable device. But as far as I can tell, it's more than an iPhone/iPod in several ways, and it has untapped potential that we'll see more and more of in the next year.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Very true.

The iPad isn't a laptop replacement. It's for the vast majority of people out there who don't WANT the hassle of a laptop. They just want something that works, and lets them get their email, browse the web, show off photos, download a movie or an ebook ... and some subset of the other 5K or so more specialized things that apps provide.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[cynyr]

The ability to ask my desktop to do heavy lifting for me via SSH+X forwarding, the ability to play a large range of media formats(VLC), the ability to consume things like hulu/netflix/pandora from the comfort of my comfy chair, playing pandora/lastFM in the background while surfing other pages, or reading an iBook, or pandora + recipe app + cooking. Yes the lack of multitasking kills it as a computing device for me. $500 better get me a slightly underpowered but in no way crippled real computer. I can get a convertible touchscreen netbook that will do the above list for around the 500-700 mark. The HP slate looks good for it as well. Tack on a 150-200 dollar "fee" to get a full OSX install and i'd probably still pay for this thing.

Things my desktop is likely to be doing all at once. Ripping a DvD, encoding the previous dvd(h264 high profile level 4.1, AAC 5.1 and 2.0 audio at 256Kbps per track) playing World of warcraft, and playing music, streaming a video to my PS3 via mediatomb. That's with ignoring running an emerge as well, i usually am not playing WoW while doing an emerge, but some times.

I think most people would like to listen to music and read a "iBook" at the same time. That seems like a common activity to do with a book. What was wrong with giving us unrestricted OSX, with it set by default to "iPad interface" and a button deep in the advanced menus, to give back the normal interface? Give it a big scary message that appstore apps don't work in the normal interface and thats probably enough to keep most people in the iPad interface.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[indiechild]

Sounds like your needs are much better met by an actual netbook/laptop. iPad was always going to be a media/entertainment style device for the masses, not the typical Slashdot geek.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[indiechild]

And why is that absurd? The OS and software is what distinguishes most phones and gadgets these days.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[GauteL]

"Why would anyone want to get an iPad if they have an iPhone and a Kindle?"

I have no idea. But then very, very (I'm tempted to use a few more "very"s) few people actually have Kindles.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

You say that like it's a bad thing. The iPhone is pretty successful, if you hadn't noticed. Many people like the interface because of it's simplicity. Ball's back in your court, I'm afraid.

Besides, it's more than just a giant iPhone. All the default apps have be redesigned to suit the larger display. It's right there if you watch the video, or visit their site.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

The thing is, the iPhone is so great at browsing the web compared to any other pocketable device before it, that I actually spend time browsing the web with it. But that isn't to say that the experience is anywhere near idea -- the small screen is quite a big problem. This iPad may overlap in much functionality, but the sheer improvement from the bigger screen is reason enough for me to get one. As for the Kindle, I'm sure it has it's niche, but it isn't for me. Even though it does have it's advantages, it still lacks the functionality of the iPad. As for lack of camera, I always have my iPhone with me.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I think you need to watch the video, because all the default apps have been redesigned to make use to the larger screen. It's pretty innovative stuff if you take the time to look at how they all work. Perhaps you can give some examples of what you thought would have been innovative?

As for no multitasking, this is actually quite a neat trick Apple has done. Developers are forced to make the apps load fast and save their state in a way that makes sense. It sure sucks for some things, and Apple should get around to addressing this, but most of the time I don't miss multitasking on my iPhone. And as the hardware improves, the loading speed is going to get even snappier.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[klui]

Enjoy your 800x600 screen while I use my 1920x1200.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

It uses many of the same GUI elements, yes, but the interface for all the default apps have been redesigned. They are not simply the same apps scaled up to fill a larger screen.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Perhaps you are not the target market for this device? When I'm just out and about, I don't want all that stuff. When I travel, I have a laptop.

You really switch between reading recipes and reading books fast enough for multitasking to be a problem, and you need that ability so much that it's a deal-breaker? I think you are in a very small minority.

Reading a book and listening to music can be done, I'm guessing, just like the iPhone. Yes, you need to use iTunes, which is fine for most people most of the time.

The problem with designing software that takes every possible situation or eccentricity into account is that you end up with bloated apps that are horrible to use. This isn't as much of a problem on a desktop OS with a large screen, but it's critical on a small device like the iPhone or iPad.

Re:Typical techies and gadget freaks

[nick.cash]

Perhaps. Apple is extraordinarily smart and they may prove us all wrong in the end. I'm currently of the mind that this device doesn't fill any niche I need filled. I have a smartphone with me at all times in case I need to quickly/randomly access a website. I have a fairly small, portable, notebook most of the time, and when I'm at work I have several workstations available to me. Soon, I'll have a Nook to read books on. Between all these, all situations I might use an iPad are soundly covered.
There is simply no time where I need internet access, my phone won't cut it, and I don't have access to an actual computer. And that further generalizes to all of the features that the iPad has. I simply do not need one.

But....that's just me. And that's just right now, today, January 28th 2010. If Apple succeeds, this could become very popular and many people could some day end up with an iPad instead of owning a more traditional computer - netbook, laptop, or even desktop. To the very casual user, this may be all they need. We've all been saying for years that Linux is good enough for the average user because it has a web browser and email, and that most people don't really need Windows... well, here, Apple is saying the same thing. And with their marketing and "cool factor", they might actually succeed with our rthetoric. Pretty soon, people might not be complaining that the iPad doesn't fill any niche... they'll be asking why anyone would buy a laptop or desktop or e-reader when a phone and a tablet cover are all anyone needs.

(This doesn't bother me too much. But what does is the idea that Apple may be eventually abandoning "real" OS X and focusing on locked-down devices like this... but that I shall complain about in more relevant threads.)

iLike iPad

[zebpack]

iWill iGnite iPhone iN iRk iNduced iNside iPad

Skype ap over wifi?

[SlideGuitar]

I wonder if you could run a skype ap over wifi? Just saw this: http://www.skype.com/intl/en/download/skype/iphone/ I assume it would work on speaker. Bluetooth headset option?

iPad Alternatives

[davide marney]

You know, a lot of the UI features of the iPad don't look that revolutionary. Looks almost like a variant of Moblin to me. How hard would it be to create a Linux desktop manager that duplicates the functionality of the iPad? Shoot, it wouldn't even be that hard to go several features better (multi-tasking, daylight-readable screen, video camera, etc.)

It's great that Apple has put their vision out there, but it looks like when all is said and done, they're betting on their media tie-ins to keep their dominant hipster status. The special sauce doesn't seem to be in the software or the hardware of the iPad.

So, while Apple is busy trying to wrangle exclusive deals with Big Content, other smartbook vendors and the FOSS community can be busy analyzing the design choices of the iPad, and dreaming up an even better vision.

Re:iPad Alternatives

[DJCouchyCouch]

> How hard would it be to create a Linux desktop manager that duplicates the functionality of the iPad?

pssh. I could pull it off in a weekend.

Re:iPad Alternatives

[sapphire wyvern]

And, in the end, the deals with Big Content will *still* make the Apple product a million times more successful than the open community's version can achieve, even despite superior feature sets. This thing's not for doing work on; it's a media consumption device (web, streaming movies, streaming tv, ebooks). I suspect the best use of the App Store on this machine will be semi-portable gaming since the iPad doesn't have the in-pocket portability of the iPhones and iPod Touches. So yeah... if this thing succeeds at all, it'll be thanks to Apple's ability to get its customers to hand over money to Big Content via iTunes, and the associated love that Big Content has for Apple.

Re:iPad Alternatives

[Anonymous Coward]

Look buddy if you want to make a desktop environment for Linux that is as usable as something that comes out of Apple, then please for the love of everything good in this world, get started.

Takes equally from both

[SuperKendall]

eInk is way more readable, and requires charging far less often.

I personally find a crisp display more readable than the Kindle, as the greyish e-Ink screen is a bit low contrast for my tastes.

As for battery life, I think the standby time (one month for the tablet) is actually more important. You can leave it around and pick it up later, and charge it every so often. I don't see the charging requirements being that offputting when it can do so much more than a Kindle in the same form factor and roughly the same weight?

It has a harder time replacing laptops, although not that much harder...

Cloud Storage is unreliable hype

[Zan Lynx]

For a mobile device to ignore cloud storage is not a bug, it is a feature. Sure, syncing local storage with the cloud is useful. But any mobile device of mine had better have useful data locally.

For example, GPS mapping applications. Those that rely on the cloud for data are useless anywhere off the data network. That is a lot of places. If you're lost somewhere in the Colorado mountains you may get GPS but cellular data service is laughably unlikely.

Books and music. It is incredibly annoying to press 'next page' and nothing happens because you've walked into a movie theater or are driving through a tunnel with no data service. It would be equally annoying to have the music stop because of that.

Apple does not need a netbook ...

[perpenso]

So Apple is basically saying that we should stop buying MacBooks and iPhones?

I'm going with: Apple is basically saying that they do not need to introduce a netbook, that a pad is a better fit for this market.

I'm not 100% sold on that idea but with iPhone apps supplemented by desktop apps like the iWorks apps that Apple demo'd I'd say the idea is plausible for many users. Anyone else carry around an iPhone/iPod at home to check email and do lightweight browsing, too lazy to visit the computer? :-)

--
Perpenso Calc for iPhone and iPod touch, scientific and bill/tip calculator, fractions, complex numbers, RPN

do NOT want

[adachan]

After watching the live song and dance associated with the device, I ask myself, "Why in the world do I need this?" There is nothing compelling to the ipad. I think this will fail as most tablets have failed before.

Seriously...

[charliemopps11]

Who would buy this? It's garbage.

Re:Seriously...

[Spy Handler]

apple fanbois on slashdot would buy this

Re:Seriously...

[exomondo]

There are a class of people who would buy Steve Jobs' dump if he shrink wrapped it and put an 'i' in front of it.

iPad's impact on mobile computing

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that the iPad is a welcome newcomer to the world of mobile computing. I don't have the room to explain here, but check out this webpage for a more indepth look at its impact on mobile computing: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2638829/apples_new_device_the_ipad.html?cat=15

Re:You want the version with the Unobtainium scree

[jbezorg]

...and that's probably a good choice if all you ever want to do with it is read black and white ebooks page-by-page.

The iPad's size means it's not going to replace my phone. Since my phone can duplicate some, if not most, of the functionality of the iPad those extra features don't add as much value for me.

It comes down to two basic needs. The need for a larger screen for text media and the need for a larger screen for visual media. For me, the former wins out and my phone's capability suffices for the other needs ( mostly communication, natch ).

Excellent for me

[k2r]

It's an excellent device for me.
It will do 80% of what I usually carry my 4(?) yo MacBook-Pro and my eBook-Reader for.
I will be able to leave both at the hotel or at home and do most of the stuff on the iPad / the customers machines and if I really need the power I can still Remote Desktop to one of my company's machines.

Yeah every Apple product is so successful

[mdwh2]

iPod - "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."

I'm sorry, how does its popularity negate criticisms of its functionality? Or are you saying that any criticisms of PCs, Windows and Internet Explorer are also ludicrous, because of their popularity?

The only one of your statements that makes any claims of sales is the one for the Ipod Mini (and a rather straw man claim - you only need one buyer to disprove it, but that's not saying very much).

You are also committing a blatant fallacy: just because one product of theirs is popular (the Ipod) doesn't mean future ones will be. Tell me, do you think that Windows phones and tablets will become dominant, based on the past overwhelming success of Windows?

We could equally point out the Mac, the Iphone, or indeed specific models such as the Air (remember that? Thought not), and conclude that the Ipad will likely also sell okay for Apple to make money, but only to a niche market.

Re:Yeah every Apple product is so successful

[node 3]

You are also committing a blatant fallacy

As are you. Just because you hate Apple, that doesn't mean people don't actually like their products.

However, you are correct. The Ipod, Iphone and Ipad do all suck. The iPod, iPhone and iPad, however. Well, the first two are great products and are doing quite well. The iPad looks to continue the trend. Only time will tell. One thing's for sure, however. And that is that your personal opinion is already at odds with the market, and the market shows no sign of re-aligning with you any time soon.

I'm sorry, how does its popularity negate criticisms of its functionality? Or are you saying that any criticisms of PCs, Windows and Internet Explorer are also ludicrous, because of their popularity?

People don't usually choose IE or Windows. It's the default. It's what they need to be compatible with the office. People chose the iPod when there were other players with greater features or lower prices, and they still do.

Or put differently, when people buy iPods, iPhones and Macs, it's because they specifically want those things in particular. When they run IE, or buy a Windows PC, it's not specifically because they particularly like Windows or IE, but that that's the default choice for a browser or a computer.

That's not to say there aren't people out there who actually want Windows. There definitely are. But I'm extremely confident that number is much lower than Windows' actual market share.

Re:Yeah every Apple product is so successful

[mdwh2]

As are you. Just because you hate Apple, that doesn't mean people don't actually like their products.

Can you point me to where I claim no one likes Apple products?

And another fallacy: just because I don't like a product, or point out factual information about it, doesn't mean I hate them.

The Ipod, Iphone and Ipad do all suck. The iPod, iPhone and iPad, however.

I try to write correct grammar. I don't write the trademark logos, just as I don't write a reversed "R" when talking about Toys R Us, or sing "ding dong ding dong" when I mention Intel.

Well, the first two are great products and are doing quite well. The iPad looks to continue the trend.

The first one is market leader. The second is a niche product. Yeah, I bet Ipad will follow that trend...

And that is that your personal opinion is already at odds with the market, and the market shows no sign of re-aligning with you any time soon.

Come on, citations of actual market figures? What's the Ipad market share?

People don't usually choose IE or Windows. It's the default. It's what they need to be compatible with the office. People chose the iPod when there were other players with greater features or lower prices, and they still do.

Nonsense, plenty of people choose Windows PCs, and if Apple can't be compatible with business, that's their issue. The Ipod is just as much as a default - it's what's advertised prominently by every store, and do you think most people know there are any other mp3 players these days?

Or put differently, when people buy iPods, iPhones and Macs, it's because they specifically want those things in particular.

And even if we said things were different for Microsoft, Apple are still no different to every other tech company on the planet, including those selling better (e.g., Nokia), and which don't get hyped.

But I'm extremely confident that number is much lower than Windows' actual market share.

You could make the same vague untestable claim for Apple, and most other companies.

Re:Yeah every Apple product is so successful

[node 3]

I try to write correct grammar. I don't write the trademark logos, just as I don't write a reversed "R" when talking about Toys R Us, or sing "ding dong ding dong" when I mention Intel.

No, you use deliberately misspelled words to denigrate your adversary. This is just the same as those that use "Micro$oft".

And another fallacy: just because I don't like a product, or point out factual information about it, doesn't mean I hate them.

Your sole motivation on any story about Apple is to put down them, their products, and their users, etc. You truly can't believe that all you're doing is providing "factual information" about Apple, can you? I mean, what are the odds that every single thing about Apple is bad?

So, sure, *maybe* you don't "hate" them. But your bias is extremely evident. As is mine. The difference is I have a good handle on what's opinion and what's fact. If someone has a different opinion than me (like you do), no big deal. But conflating opinion with fact, you are little more than a Fox News "commentator" applied to Apple topics.

Don't you see yourself for the troll you are? You only enter Apple topics to put them down. There's *nothing* wrong with criticism, but when your sole purpose is to simply put them down, you've got a problem. Surely you must have some notion of this while you're typing out your posts?

Nonsense, plenty of people choose Windows PCs

I never said plenty of people don't. I said "most". And to be sure, *MOST* people *DON'T* choose a PC, they choose a COMPUTER. It's like if LG had 90% of the TV market. These people aren't going, "really want an LG!", they're saying "I really want a TV," and LG just happens to be the line that works with their cable boxes and what they use at work and what their friends use.

On the other hand, to chose a Mac, you pretty much have to specifically chose it. When you want a Mac, you go and buy a Mac. When you just want a computer, you go in and buy an HP or a Dell or whatever, and you really don't care specifically who makes your PC.

and if Apple can't be compatible with business, that's their issue.

I never said it wasn't. What's with your incessant need for straw men?

But I'm extremely confident that number is much lower than Windows' actual market share.

You could make the same vague untestable claim for Apple, and most other companies.

Shit, if "vague untestable claims" were not allowed, all your posts would end up quite anemic. But for my specific claim, when people buy a Mac, they specifically want a *Mac*. If they just wanted a computer, they'd most likely just buy a PC.

It's like when people buy an HP. It's usually not because they particularly wanted an *HP* over a Dell or whatever. That's just the one they bought. There are certainly some people who specifically wanted an HP, but most people just don't really care all that much. The same goes for Macs vs PC. Most people who buy a PC aren't buying it because they specifically prefer Windows over a Mac.

panel native resolution?

[aquabat]

anyone see a spec for the panel they're using in this thing? type/resolution/depth/response etc...

iBrick?

[mdwh2]

My thoughts exactly. The advantage of the Ipod is that it's small - making portable devices bigger? That's what people call a "brick". Yet it lacks the advantages of similar sized devices, most notably netbooks (proper keyboard, open and full computer OS).

This may sell okay to some Apple fans, but the hype over this is absurdly ridiculous and disproprtionate. I only hope it will return to normal coverage (as happened with the Air - funny how we never heard about that again, after netbooks appeared on the scene). Or I fear it may turn out like the Iphone - free advertising in the media, including daily Ipad stories (or more), even if it turns out to be one of the lesser seller tablets, compared to tablets that never get any coverage at all.

Re:iBrick?

[Amouth]

the Air look nice - acouple things killed it in my eyes.. the lack of a proper network port/ docking station. SSD only which knocked the price way too high

What a disappointment...:(

[Anonymous Coward]

it's just a big Iphone. Come on steve you really dropped the ball on this one.. Oh and whats with the name it sounds like a feminine hygiene product. iSlate or Itablet would have been much better.

Lisa

[spacemky]

It should more aptly be named: iLisa 2010.

reading on the thing

[Anonymous Coward]

ya know. there's all this touting this iPad thingy for book readin'. it has just occurred to me that the reason my iPod touch is fine for reading might be *because* it's so small. the amount of light hitting my eye, and the amount of light-bleed from the bits that don't have words is just much smaller. maybe apple's done something clever with the 'page' background to mitigate the effects of the glowiness; but otherwise, even if super-high res: it'd be a lot like reading on a laptop.

so far, not impressed. the tech's heading in the right direction; but i'm holding out to see if mirasol's worth a d@mn.

iPad as ebook reader

[Brandee07]

But Apple wanted an ebook reader, and that's what they made.

An ebook reader they made, with pros and cons vs the rest of the ebook world:

Pros:

Color - self explanatory

Backlight - for night reading. Other ebook readers get to clip on old-fashioned booklights.

Access to three different ebook stores - in addition to the rebranded iBook, B&N and Amazon maintain iPhone reader apps, which obviously carry over, for price compaison and greater selection.

Cons:

Backlight - for hurty eyes after 6 hours of reading straight- reading takes a lot more focus than movie watching, and the backlight will strain your eyes after too long.

Multitasking - You know how sleep doctors will tell you not to work in bed, because you don't want to build an association between bed and working, lest it trigger insomnia? I have this problem with my iPhone, and my computer. I constantly flit from app to app, or window to window, doing a dozen different things, and that makes it hard to focus on just one thing when using it. The flip side is the Kindle, where the only thing is does well is reading, and there is no opportunity for another window or app to distract me. Just like beds are for sleeping, Kindles are for focused reading.

Battery - eInk readers are good for ~40 hours of constant use, which puts the total battery life at about two weeks (assuming ~3/day of reading). The iPad looks like it will need a charge every day to every other day, much like the iPhone.

And, of course, there's the iPhone/iPod Touch. The main advantage the iPhone has over the Kindle as a reader is the size- the Kindle goes with me almost everywhere, in my purse. The iPhone goes with me absolutely everywhere, no exceptions, in my pocket. The iPad negates this completely. And the other things I do with my iPhone: logging calories, logging purchases, making calls, GPS navigation, and taking pictures, are all better served by a pocket-sized, with-me-everywhere device.

So, the iPad's killer app is not ebooks. That doesn't mean that there won't be one. I imagine it will be a wild success in the niche markets that TabletPCs are used for... mainly since Apple gives excellent UI tools to their developers. One of the problems is that TabletPCs just use regular PC interfaces. iPad developers will have to make their apps with touch input in mind, rather than blindly assuming a mouse or trackpad.

Important question

[Anonymous Coward]

Will it play World of Warcraft?

Because I wasnt funny enough to think of it myself

[Eggbloke]

http://newstechnica.com/2010/01/27/apple-launches-ipad-for-that-time-of-imonth/

Lame

[wembley fraggle]

So, it's got wireless and I don't even know if they make Nomads anymore. But: no handwriting input, no web cam. Lame.

Re:Lame

[RazorSharp]

That's the next version. All the rich morons are going to buy this first version, bring down the costs for everyone else, and then some extra features will be added next January. When they add the camera I can see great possibilities for video chat (that may scare AT&T). It's just like the iPhone and iPhone 3G. The people who throw their money at anything Apple puts out will get the ball rolling for the rest of us.

I'll admit, I want one, but I certainly don't need one, so I can wait. I never buy the first version of an Apple product but I'm sure glad that people who are more frivolous with their money do.

I call FUD

[RulerOf]

Also Flash and Silverlight are good attack vectors

FUD, sir. (whatever that means)

GP and GGP have it right. Apple's core business model and bottom line is in hardware and software/media sold exclusively through the routes that they (very tightly) control. Flash or Silverlight on these devices subverts that system, and as such, putting either on any is a very unwise business decision.

I'm going to go check their stock price now... and probably wish I owned some :-D

Cheers though ;)

Re:I call FUD

[jwdav]

If Apple were "blocking" Flash and Silverlight simply to preserve their media sales, they would be blocking any kind of streaming media, including HTML 5/ H.264.

Since they are not, it makes more sense that they really don't want any single company to "own" the delivery mechansim, especially if it is buggy, crash prone, or a resource hog.

Glass.

[mosb1000]

Apple uses glass in all their iPod, iPhone, MacBook and iMac devices. They switched in response to complaints about the iPod nano scratching, and the way those complaints translated into concerns about the iPhone when the originally announced specs included a plastic screen. Since then Apple has switched their entire line-up to glass, and routinely cites the use of glass in their environmental credentials. Given how widespread their use of the material in applications similar to this is, I doubt it is much of a concern.

Re:Glass.

[oh2]

Sure, but none of those existing devices have a 10" glass pane without cover. My worry is that it will crack easily if you drop it or it gets subjected to stress in some other way. A small piece of glass, like in a iPod nano or a iPhone is subjected to less stress if its dropped than a larger pane. You dont carry an iMac around very much, and the MacBooks has the other half of the computer shielding the glass when you carry it.

I hope this forces Amazon to

[melted]

I hope this forces Amazon to drop Kindle DX to $299 and include an SD card slot. Fact is, with this device out there, Kindle DX is overpriced as hell.

quality flash ram is expensive

[solsang]

ipod ram needs high speed and reliability; look up the price of the good sandisk 32gb sd card; more than 200$

ipad

[Anonymous Coward]

wife asked if it came with wings .. bhraw-ha-ha, screwed up stevey

big...

[Demerara]

....yawn.....

stylus

[Anonymous Coward]

A tablet needs a stylus and handwriting recognition.

Why is it that 10 years ago Apple Newton came out with the best handwriting recognition ever and no device since has even come clost to matching the Apple Newton? the iPad has missed an oppertunity to be a realy useful business/study tool.

Hmm, bragging about a lack of knowledge?

[jeko]

Sarah? Sarah Palin, is that you? :-)

Seriously though, EVERY profession thinks outsiders are fools. Cops call civilians "sheeple," plumbers and mechanics think people who don't turn a wrench all day are suckers, doctors routinely think of themselves as God Almightier.

If you're not a computer geek and don't like Unix, then why are you hanging out on a forum called "/."?

Re:Hmm, bragging about a lack of knowledge?

[ClosedSource]

"If you're not a computer geek and don't like Unix, then why are you hanging out on a forum called "/."?"

Who are you talking to?

No Multitasking

[HermMunster]

It does not multitask. Enough said.

/. users can be clueless

[aussersterne]

Because they're all geeks. I used to be one, as a young CS student back in the late '80s. But now I'm a busy academic in another field and have a different perspective.

Geeks want to know what you CAN do with a device, i.e. feature set (official or unofficial, the more esoteric and broad the better).
The more possible things you CAN do, the cooler it is, especially if it squeezes more an more things it CAN do into a smaller and smaller space and does them faster and faster.

Non-geeks aren't starting with "need a gadget" and then asking "which gadget does most things?"
Non-geeks start with a limited set of needs (i.e. mobile browsing, eBook reading, etc.) and ask "which gadget does this ONE thing I'm interested in BEST, and with the SMALLEST learning curve and dependency set?"

So it's almost a guarantee that anything /. finds cool will flop massively in the mass market, and anything /. finds appallingly overpriced|oversimple|lacking-in-features-compared-to-x|fornoobsonly will be massively successful.

I know I had an iPod. Loved it. I still remember the infamous (+5, Insightful) comment when iPod was announced that ended with "Lame."

Same with the iPhone. It is the best phone I've ever had, bar none. People here bitch about it all the time; you'd think it was crap. But having owned a bunch of phones on a bunch of carriers, I wouldn't trade my iPhone for anything.

I don't really need an iPad so I'm not too tempted by it, but I'm fairly sure that it's going to do VERY WELL out there, and will appeal directly to a large variety of people who aren't tempted in the least by XP Tablet on a convertible or on UMPC.

Funny thing...

[aussersterne]

As a non-coder who writes and teaches for a living, I would be VERY tempted to get rid of my laptop and use my iPhone as my main (only?) computing device if only it had a USB port or bluetooth keyboard + mouse connectivity.

Re:Funny thing...

[dissy]

As a non-coder who writes and teaches for a living, I would be VERY tempted to get rid of my laptop and use my iPhone as my main (only?) computing device if only it had a USB port or bluetooth keyboard + mouse connectivity.

That is fully possible right now, if you are willing to basically run a program on the pc with itunes, and then install another free program to the phone (or two, i dont use bluetooth mouse support personally, just keyboard)

Download 'blackrain' on the pc with itunes. connect your phone and run blackrain. 5 minutes later your phone is jailbroken, and will have a 'rock' and/or 'cydia' icon (Both are alternative app stores, pretty much using debians dpkg/apt system.)

Then in one of those apt GUIs (I prefer rock these days) do a search for bluetooth.

There is a bluetooth keyboard driver, and I know i've seen a mouse driver as well.

Once that is done, it will install the dependencies for you (the alternate open bluetooth stack) and you will be able to pair with headsets, sound systems, keyboards, mice, even wiimotes for gaming.

Sure, jailbreaking is not apple approved, but feck it :}
It's my hardware by first sale doctrine, so we don't need apples approval.

Apple Announces new iShackle (tm) !

[Jeremy Allison - Sam]

Dateline: Wed Jan 27th 2010, San Francisco: 10:00am

Not since their release of the iWaterboard "enhanced interrogation"
playset (tm) has so much excitement been generated over a new Apple
product. The new iShackle (tm), demonstrated by Steve Jobs on an
anti-DRM protester on stage at a packed San Francisco event this
morning, takes customer lock-in to a new level. "With the new iShackle
(tm), content companies will literally OWN their customers", said Jobs
in front of an ecstatic audience. "No more pesky choice, no more
confusing options, just pure, simple, buy this or ELSE corporate power". As
expected, fans were completely delighted with the new Apple product.
"I can't wait to buy the new iShackle (tm) and take it home and put it
on !" said one excited member of the crowd. "Steve says I never have
to take it off or think about other products EVER AGAIN !"

Not everyone was pleased with the announcement however. A Microsoft
spokesperson said, "We've had the Microsoft zOBEY software for 2 years
now, this isn't a new concept. Apple once again copies the market
leader." Sales of the Microsoft alternative have been poor however,
except for Microsoft employees, who have had use of the software
mandated in their employment contracts since Steve Ballmer announced
the product at a marketing event in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba in 2007.

man-bag, pfft

[jDeepbeep]

I'm half-joking and half-serious here, but man-bags are on the rise.

It's not a man-bag, a man-purse, or a murse. It is a satchel. Get it right!

*adjusts satchel*

Tech Support Nightmare - Accents

[digitalslave]

So when a guy/gal from Texas calls for tech support on their device how do you tell if they have a problem with their iPad or their iPod?! *just starts mashing dialpad*

Re:Tech Support Nightmare - Accents

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't tell the difference between ah-payed and ah-pawd ?

iPad?

[Anonymous Coward]

Will my wife mistakenly attempt to use this during her monthly cycle? Does it have wings?

Lousy name.

It's not a "custom A4"

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a standard ARM Cortex A8 core. And it's no more custom than the last chip (which was also customized).

This is just marketing. Ridiculous.

iPad

[odin84gk]

Makes you wonder if they got the name from Star Trek's data pad.

Some people just don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone is trying to make a computer smaller, Apple is creating a platform to fill a gap that paper still reigns over. It's the first step into a bold world we like to think of in future. You've got to applaud the effort and courage not to make another netbook. Succeed for fail, it's progress--not just another tiny laptop.

Now, about that flying car thing....

Steve Jobs singlehandedly created the iPad

[Boawk]

From America's Finest News source

My review - it will never be a success...

[Darth Snowshoe]

This thing is very flat, and it's possible it could very easily get lost in my cluttered apartment. It has on odd name that could be hard to spell, with a capital later that is placed in an unorthodox location. It has somewhat sharp edges which could present a danger to very clumsy people. Also, it's utility is going to be limited for people who are blind, deaf and also have no fingers or toes. Additionally, it won't work very well for people living underwater. In places that are very hot, like Venus, or the Sun, its durability is questionable and its battery life would be compromised. It could present a choking hazard to very large people or hungry bears. A palette full of them could easily crush someone. It would probably explode in a microwave oven. Honestly, I have to wonder what Steve Jobs was thinking when he designed this! No thanks, Steve, what are you, trying to kill me?

VOIP

[pohl]

There's an app for that.

Re:VOIP

[Sabriel]

But don't also forget to buy a bluetooth headset too, because I can't see a mic on that iPad...?

Re:VOIP

[pohl]

Reading sometimes helps.

Re:VOIP

[Sabriel]

Doh. Sorry.

Steve's Presentation

[bradgoodman]

I think Steve's presentation said it all - not only was the on-screen keyboard too cumbersome for him to even type a small email message, but he lacked his usual cocky showmanship - he reminded me more of Balmer or someone - try to make a hard pitch for little things that weren't that impressive. You can tell when someone is trying to feign excitement. I would say I was "let down" - I envisioned a "bigger iPhone", but was hoping to be wowed by some new, unexpected ingenious new Apple thing. It kind of reminded me of the "eMate"....

It is perfect for maps

[Kyusaku Natsume]

Subject says it all.

I used in my first trip to Japan my Macbook and Google maps to find my way around Tokyo an Kyoto; I would love to have something like this at the time, the iPad is small enough to fit inside a women's bag or a coat pouch, and very light. This coupled with a car kit will be an amazing GPS device.

Re:It is perfect for maps

[exomondo]

This coupled with a car kit will be an amazing GPS device.

No better than an iphone, worse in fact since it's too large to stick on the windshield.

Re:Extra things you'll need - drive size/cost

[Anonymous Coward]

You can be sure that the solid state drive in the ipad isn't just a USB stick - it would wear out too soon as those cheap USB sticks are made from Multi level cells and typically there is a 10000 write cycle lifetime per cell. It is very likely that the ssd is a full blown drive of the single level cell type...with a 1000000 write life per cell

Marble

[donstenk]

Nice toy.

Is the OS a preview of Marble, what with all the dark task bars and so?

That's not impressive for a device this new.

[falconwolf]

10 hours runtime on a charge.

No spinning hard drive or fans, and only 64gig memory max.

There would seem to be a lot of room in a device this big to pack in lots of battery. But no.

Ten hours is pretty respectable, I'd rather more storage. Then again with a larger display and tablet, I'd love to get one 17" or bigger, more storage and battery can be put into it. One with something like the Wacom Cintiq 21UX would be kickass bad.

Falcon

Will it blend?

[GuyFawkes]

Cos I can't see any other use for it, unless you're a fanboi...

Apple launches iPad for that time of iMonth

[David Gerard]

Cult leader Steve Jobs has announced the iPad, a "revolutionary" advance in stylish personal hygiene with elegant design.

The iPad has a 9.7in full-colour touchpad and wings. According to the box, you can watch movies, surf the internet, listen to music, view photos, read electronic books and go horseback riding, swimming, cycling, mountain-climbing and roller-skating. It also comes with iWork, which lets you do interesting and productive things at the office in between screaming at everyone for being such annoying and thoughtless idiots.

Apple has also launched an app store for the iPad which will allow users to purchase chocolate, whisky and heavy objects for when some fucker crosses you, dares look at you funny or is the sort of clueless arsehole who thinks the explanation of how pissed off you are at his behaviour is always PMT. Look, even if it might be, that's not the point.

For those who find pads too bulky, a special fluffy version of the iPod Shuffle is available, on a string.

Microsoft, who have attempted to sell increasingly bulky folded bath towels for the past decade, were not available for comment. Linux users and the Free Software Foundation were still pushing mooncups, but no-one paid them any attention.

"In conclusion," said Mr Jobs, "please, please don't kill me, darling. I love you more than anyone, honestly. Uhm ... flowers?"

Apple Acquires iRobot

[microbee]

CUPERTINO, Calif. - January 26th - Just one day before its much speculated debut of the new tablet product, Apple announced that it has reached a definitive agreement to acquire iRobot, a Bedford, MA based company that specilizes in home robots known as Roomba/Scooba.

"iRobot is a very cool company. Just imagine what can be done when two very cool companies come together." Said Tim Cook, Apple's COO. He said the company's name, iRobot, was also a reason why Apple wanted to acquire it. Tim went on to say that Apple is planning to integrate iRobot's software so that users can monitor and control their Roombas from Mac or iPhone through Bluetooth. "It will be revolutionary on how people clean their homes. It will be fun. And you no longer need the physical virtual walls. They will be obsolete. You will be able to see the map of your house and tell your robot exactly how you want it to clean. You will be able to place a virtual wall by just clicking your mouse or tapping your screen."

But that's not all. Apple is also planning to improve the product itself. "One thing I always hear people complain about Roomba is that it cannot get under furniture with very low opennings. We will fix that. We will introduce a new Roomba as thin as a Mac Air. It will be the thinnest vacuum in the world." Said Tim. He dodged the question where this thin vacuum would store the dust.

Apple is also planning to change the existing brand names of Roomba and Scooba. "We will rebrand those names to make them more like Apple. We will call them 'iSuck' and 'iWet'." He told us those names were hand-picked by Steve Jobs himself.

Other features include:
* The robot will be running OS X
* The iSuck will be available in two capacities. $699.99 for a smaller capacity (cleans 3 rooms) and $799.99 for a bigger capacity (cleans 4 rooms).
* Apple will sell a soft cover for the robot for $29.99.
* The battery of the robot is not replaceable.
* The robot will not have any hard buttons other than the Home button in the middle.

Apple's acquisition of iRobot marks a historical moment that Apple is entering the small home appliance market. What's next? An Apple microwave that can play mp3? Or an Apple coffee maker that can download the latest recipes from iTunes? Only time can tell, but the news has stired tremendous excitement in the Apple community.

score sheet

[Anonymous Coward]

ipod vs sony walkman + rest of world : 1 - nil

iphone vs nokia + rest of world : 1 - nil

ipad vs rest of world: take a guess

 

This is That

[SuperKendall]

Personally, what I wanted to see was an ultra-thin hybrid. The same sort of instant-on and always-available you get with the iphone and touch coupled with the larger screen, bigger battery, more ram, and a keyboard.

But that's exactly what this is. The keyboard is virtual for when you need to do something simple, or you can use a bluetooth keyboard for something more complex. The Apple keyboard is super thin also, or there are compact mobile bluetooth keyboards that will probably work as well.

This is very different than any current laptop or tablet, because it's cutting down to the essence of what you are doing with a computer and getting rid of a lot of baggage. It has word processing and layout applications, and really tons of other interesting applications will end up being developed for the iPad as well.

It is actually JUST useful enough to replace a laptop for many people.

They just did

[SuperKendall]

I'm hoping there will be some way to rig up the sim on my phone to use a contractless $30/month data plan.

A) you can use just about any "MicroSim".
B) The cheapest data plan is $15/month, not $30 (250MB max/month)
C) The most expensive plan is $30/month, "unlimited"
D) Both plans have no contract term.

So basically it already comes out of the box meeting the criteria you set, only you can go even cheaper (if most of the time you are on WiFi 250MB is plenty of bandwidth)

The iPhone just might

[ThrowAwaySociety]

I rather have Apple kill Flash.

If you're going to wish for something unrealistic and beyond their power, at least shoot for world peace.

Okay, so there are three possible visions of the future Web:

1. The AdobeWeb, where every page is just an empty shell around an embedded SWF. There is some risk that this may happen.

2. The SilverWeb, where every page is just an empty shell around an embedded Silverlight object. With ActiveX barely treading water, this is Microsoft's forlorn hope.

3. The iPhone Web, where every page is HTML+JavaScript and scales nicely to small screen sizes.

Personally, I like option 3 the best. And only Apple (and possibly Google, eventually) are backing this horse.

Re:The iPhone just might

[Omestes]

Personally, I like option 3 the best. And only Apple (and possibly Google, eventually) are backing this horse.

Meaning there is a pretty damn good chance of this happening.

Re:The iPhone just might

[fractoid]

How about 4) The Internet, where an appropriate medium is chosen for each web page.

So for your game aggregation sites, you have embedded flash. For educational or lightweight application use you have HTML/DOM/JavaScript with maybe embedded Java or Silverlight, and for the rest of the web you have HTML/CSS. I like this option.

Re:The iPhone just might

[slim]

3. The iPhone Web, where every page is HTML+JavaScript and scales nicely to small screen sizes.

And if you want to serve video, you have to pay a consortium that Apple is a member of. Just saying.

What a let-down...

[davevr]

Why didn't they just call it the iPhone DX?

The problem is Joe User is going to buy this thing

[falconwolf]

see the big screen size, and expect to browse the web just like they do on their laptop.

Big screen? While I like the price, to me the screen is too small. I'd rather keep my 17" MBP and get a 12" Cintiq 12WX.

And they're going to be disappointed...

I am now, not at Apple or Adobe but at web developers. Too often I come across a webpage that tells me I need to update my Flash player to the latest version. I have 10,0,42,34 which is the latest version.

Falcon

lack of principled customers?

[CdBee]

Apple are masters at PR. they had the world media reporting on the fact that they intended to announce a new future product. That is sheer class

Unlike the product. I use a Nokia phone as I took a decision a while ago that i would never buy a mobile phone which had no memory card slot - as the ability to remove the memory card from a dead handset can be a godsend in case of hardware damage. Also the upgradeability is a benefit, if my 16gb MicroSD card is too small in a few yeards I can probably get 32gb for it.

iPhone sheep should have done the same. failing to stick to your requirements ends with vendor lockin.

You're kidding, right?

[Overzeetop]

$130 is the standard price for just about any 3G add on to a netbook/laptop (at least that's what Dell charges, and I think that may be only with a plan purchase). $4/GB for a reliable SSD seems to be about retail, about $3/GB at discount, Dell charges $5.10/GB for an SSD in their laptops. This is closer to $6.75/GB. Not really a huge premium over another integrator, given that this is a "hot" product.

You should be. indeed, be modded down as troll. I'm about the last person you'd find defending Apple, but the pricing really isn't far off from what should be expected. Feel free to argue about how annoying it is that you can't add the memory yourself, or change he battery, or that they didn't bother to include 3G/GPS out of the box. You could say they did, and for less than the rumored $999. They just offered a cheap, stripped down version like Dell does. You know, for the metrosexuals who are out of a job right now.

Apple A4

[No. 24601]

Wow, I'm a bit disappointed :) Yes, with the iPad a bit, but more so with the idea that this is Slashdot and barely anyone has thrown a spotlight on the Apple A4. This is an ARM, high performance, low power CPU with integrated graphics, and more importantly the first piece of processing silicon coming out of Cupertino. Regardless of how much i like the Intel Atom, i think this will be a viable competitor on the ARM front. Too bad it is under lock and key with the iPhone OS :p

Re:Apple A4

[langelgjm]

You're not the only one - the only features I was interested in for this iPad were its processor and its OS. Is it confirmed that it is ARM-based? The stubbish WP article suggests that it may not be... but I did see that ARM stock went up 4.5% this afternoon :-)

I hope that when other companies see that Apple can successfully release an ARM-based device and still sell Intel products, they will grow some balls and release more ARM-based netbooks/smartbooks.

Re:Apple A4

[indiechild]

I'm intrigued by this chip as well, I think it might be a lot more powerful than it looks. Should be interesting to see benchmarks.

Re:Apple A4

[gwdoiron]

Ok, so now I'm curious... what's so special about *this* low-power low-performance (fixed that for you) non-x86 ARM chipset that differentiates itself from the horde of other low-power low-performance non-x86 ARM chipsets?

Re:Apple A4

[babyrat]

uses the Apple A4 processor.

Re:Apple A4

[cynyr]

which is based on??

My bet, a ARM Cortex A9!

Re:Apple A4

[klui]

I am intrigued by the A4 as well, but this "news for nerds" site had less than a doze messages to discussing the CPU while of it talked about how it lacks xyz, abc, blah blah blah.

Re:Apple A4

[Tapewolf]

I simply assumed it was a brain-damaged version of the Cortex A8...

Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve has really nailed this one! Even better than the iPhone! Who needs books anymore, where are my matches. And please don't compare this to a shitty $200 chinese netbook. Come on.

willionaire

[lionaire]

I'm really tired of the "iPad" being called a "tablet". . . .A tablet is something you can write or draw on*, NOT something you awkwardly type and fingerpaint on.

*(with a stylus Mr. Jobs!)

Big Fish, Tiny Pond

[ClosedSource]

Apple could own 100% of the "mobile browsing market" and the result would be the same.

It will be interesting to see how much more congested AT&T broadband gets when these babies get switched on.

Apple event in alternate reality

[azrael29a]

http://www.pidjin.net/2010/01/25/iwish/ I wish that would have happened at the Apple event... :)))

internal camera... in your butt maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

"Surprsingly, no built-in camera."

no duh cameras suck. Pop the lid and you got wiring routed all throughout the thing for that one camera and it sticks outward making it easy to snap off. Then dust gets on it just like the screen so it looks like crap and most of them already look horridly pixelated and minds well buy a high quality external one with far more features and movement options for lighting because *lighting* is the key thing with a camera. I'd rather have an obsolete floppy drive than an obsolete camera least then it doesn't stare at me haunting me for my delapidatedly poor choice in hardware.

25 years and it's still wrong?

[Loki_1929]

I'm not sure I understand, it took them 25 years to "invent" this and it doesn't even have a good spot to grip it like the original did?

So, okay, we've destroyed the market for...

[weston]

People who want to use a lot of Flash sites and read books outdoors who don't get in to a place where they can charge their device once a day.

So... flash-loving backpackers and forest rangers?

Why would I buy an iPad

[samwhite_y]

There is a theme to some of the comments which I wish to rebut. Essentially the theme is that Apple products really are not that good and they sell well only because Apple does such good marketing. The implied assumption here is that if you buy Apple's products, such as the iPod, you are just a sucker fooled by Apple's marketing campaign. Since I have bought Apple products because I thought they were the best products available for my needs, I see these statements as declaring that I am also a sucker and lacking in any real tech smarts. Essentially I feel like I am being called an idiot.

I remember when this debate was between Linux and PCs, and the Linux crowd was trying to argue that nobody should need to run Microsoft software to do their jobs or get things done. This was at time when you could not get Linux to legally read a DVD or use algorithms to do reasonable font rendering. Of course, these limitations were because of licensing issues, some of the most useful software productivity features were protected by commercial licenses or patents. The Linux advocates would argue that I should not be running such software in the first place because it was not "open" software. But that is a different argument. I have far more sympathy for the argument that running Linux is a superior moral choice. But arguing that Linux was a better OS for getting my job done was nonsense.

I am going to come at my argument in a backwards way. Instead of touting features of the iPad, I am going to describe artfully chosen limitations. The biggest limitation is that a developer cannot develop an application that can run as a persistent multi-threaded process. Any application that is not being used at any current moment is torn down and a new one instantiated. This is even more limited than the old Windows 3.x OS with its event driven model for task switching (for those you who don't remember -- Windows 3.x had only one running thread and all applications shared memory). Another limitation is that applications cannot use a shared file system or use shared libraries. You cannot build an application out of other applications or write applications whose purpose is to interact with other applications in useful ways. A user cannot even freely write code for their own application, build it, and run it.

For anybody who likes to tinker with their computers (I consider myself somewhat in that breed, I do programming for a living), this seems almost mind boggling stupid. But there is a method to this madness.

So what do you get back for these choices.

1. A very stable device that does not need to worry about applications doing semi-permanent bad things to your computer requiring a reboot. It is not stable just because applications have a hard time doing bad things, but the basic logic of behavior is so simple that you can "audit" and control it in a way that you cannot control a standard modern OS. This eliminates tangled logic scenarios that come up when you have interactions between device drivers, OS interrupts, glitches in hardware, and complicated applications. Also, it is far easier to write protections against hostile software, especially if you control the distribution of all software for your device.

I think many in the Slashdot crowd underestimate the importance of stability in a portable device. I reboot computers all the time because of glitches of various sorts. It is true that the OS is rarely to blame, it might be the device driver for my mouse, or a disk glitch, a misbehaving network router, or a bad application but generally such issues are fatal. And because of the complexity of the OS, the OS really has no chance at diagnosing the true cause of the problem.

That is not something I will tolerate in a lightweight portable device used for limited but useful activities. I have heard rumors that Android phones, once you start trying to run some of the same application that make the iPhone popular, have far more problems with various issues, such as unwanted battery run down for processes that

Re:Why would I buy an iPad

[indiechild]

Bravo, nicely thought out post.

I use a lot of Apple products but personally, I don't think I'll be buying an iPod for a few years. In particular, the 1024x768 screen has me very disappointed as I was expecting them to use a high dpi screen like the iPhone's. It's not big enough to display HD video natively. Now that they've set this screen resolution in stone, they won't be able to change this for some time even as technology progresses.

I think the iPad is a quiet gamechanger though. It'll bring about a revolution when it comes to epublishing and content delivery. Of course, it's not the iPad alone that makes this possible, it's Apple's strategic partnerships and infrastructure. I have no doubt Apple will rule the ebook and online news subscription market within a few years.

Re:Why would I buy an iPad

[Aceticon]

Your original assumptions are wrong and I'm afraid you just spent 100 lines of comment fighting Windmills, not Giants.

Re:Why would I buy an iPad

[samwhite_y]

You do know the general brevity and slandering nature of your comment reduces its validity.

Could you identify the "giants" for me? My general claim is that Apple is winning because they have a superior technology (not because of marketing). I also believed that was true about Windows 95/Windows NT/Microsoft Office (against the competitors available at that time). Do you disagree and why? I also believe that there are fundamental architectural decisions at the foundations of products that greatly influence their success or failure. Successful (note -- I did not say "good", as a programmer I find some choices made by Microsoft and Apple morally objectionable) software needs well designed foundations. Do you disagree with that? Or do agree with my general assertions but think I have picked lesser arguments to support my statements? What would be stronger arguments?

watching movies

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone is sure to come out with an aftermarket folding stand so you can prop it up to watch movies. Though I would hate to carry more crap, it would be nice w/ bluetooth headphones.

Re:watching movies

[Anonymous Coward]

Pay attention. There is one already.

market share

[falconwolf]

Doesn't really matter the iPad is an iKaboom, it just wont work. All the sales, marketing and forum hype (could apple trolls be considered maggots) are not gonna get that platform moving.

At consumer electronic shows about 30 tablets are expected. MS showed one by HP. So if tablets fail it's not just Apple that loses. I'd love one myself, but not Apple's current iPad, the screen is too small for me. I've been thinking of getting a Wacom Bamboo for now.

Sticking an i in something doesn't make it more saleable, the tablet has always had the one big problem, drop factor, it is to large to be effectively hand held, a keyboard is the quickest input device and the tablet has always been this only for pose platform.

Almost all portable devices have that problem. Years ago I brought my laptop with me when I went somewhere and after I got out of the car I slipped on ice. When I got in I took my laptop out and though it only dropped about 2 feet the LCD was cracked. Hoping but not expecting it to be covered I called tech support but they said they didn't cover cracked LCDs. The person suggested I call my car insurance and when I asked how much it would cost to repair the person just said between $200 and $1200, nothing more precise. $1200? That's half what I paid for it.

And I only had it 3 months.

For now I guess a Bamboo will have to do.

Falcon

We need a better quote for this thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

No 3G yet. Less space than an iPod. Lame!

max altitude

[Anonymous Coward]

10,000 feet. http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/#envrequirements

Can't use this on planes?

Re:max altitude

[babyrat]

only if it's not pressurized unlike every commercial airplane out there.

No mountain climbing though....

I Hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

Some other manufacturer is taking notes on all the rumored features, wish lists and left out items and rolls it all together into a nice iWiper!

cant use on the airplane?

[Anonymous Coward]

So from the apple website.

Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)

Does this mean no one can use it on an airplane?

I have a use for one of these

[Anonymous Coward]

I currently use an iPod Touch as a convenient way to carry around a lot of photos (I'm a photographer). This will solve the only problem I have with the iPod Touch - the screen is too small. So I'm happy to see this announcement. I don't care if you want one. In fact, I'd be delighted if you don't want one - that way I'll be able to get one sooner. Please don't want one :)

Alternatives?

[mordenkhai]

As a college student, the iPad interests me in being a replacement for regular paper notebooks. I'd like to be able to take notes, via a real or virtual keyboard, as well as use a stylus for when I need to take non text notes, ideally on the same 'page'. Being able to browse the web during or between classes in order to get reference documents would be very nice. It is kinda of a pain on my phone, given its size. Add in 3G, and the iPad seems like it would fill the role well enough. I wish it had more storage space, and memory card slots however. So many people are saying this iPad is a flop in the making and that there are other alternatives. I see people say how great their tablet is, but so few people name them. So what other options are out there, in the $500-$700 range. I saw some very nice machines for $1500 but I just do not want to spend that much. Suggestions?

Re:Alternatives?

[babyrat]

So what other options are out there, in the $500-$700 range

I just ordered a t91MT from Asus - convertible netbook. $500 from newegg.

Essentially, a big iPod Touch ... with extras.

[ErkDemon]

Yep, it's essentially a big iPod touch with some of the more Stalinist restrictions of the iPT rolled back a little, so that it can be more useful as a document viewer.

For instance, the list of files that you could put onto your iPod Touch via the USB cable was kinda minimal. No "office" documents to speak of, no spreadsheets, no wordprocessor files, no html files, no PDF files. Sure, you could install "apps for that", but they'd have to get their source document files from the internet, because Apple's gatekeeper sync application would block those file types from being loaded onto the device's internal storage via USB, even if you had an app that could display them. The bluetooth was crippled so you couldn't get your files on by bluetooth, and there wasn't a card slot to get them on that way. So if you wanted to transfer a draft PDF brochure or itinerary onto your iPT, you normally had to do it by loading it onto an internet server and downloading it into the iPT off the net. Or by the back door using Google Docs or Zoho or some other "cloudish" software.

Apple basically went out of their way to make sure that there was no way for the user to have a free choice of what they loaded onto the iPT, short of jailbreaking it. You couldn't even use the Apple bluetooth keyboard with it, because that'd have undercut their laptop sales, so the sorts of peripheral choices you had with the Palm Pilot in the 1990s (remember those cute pocket-size folding keyboards?) were "verboten" for the iPhone.

With the new iPad, things aren't quite so bad. Apple now graciously gives you permission to load your MSOffice files onto the device, along with PDFs. Not OpenOffice files, though, or any other unrecognised file types. You will apparently be allowed to use an external keyboard with it, which is an advance, but that keyboard will probably have to be made by Apple. And hopefully they'll have sorted some of the limitations of the iPT that stopped it being any good as a PDA unless you were synching over wifi to an internet server. Maybe give it a native "ToDo" manager, the native ability to create contact list categories, stuff like that.

But basically, yes, it's a big iPod Touch with a few less limitations. Still gated for most data types, but now allowed to transfer at least //some// ebook formats under iTunes control (although AFAIK we're still waiting to see if it'll support ==all== common eBook formats, or just the ones that Apple will be selling via their shop). It still only seems to have one button, though (sigh. Apple.)

Personally, I think the iPad is still much too restrictive, and I'm planning on waiting for an ASUS EeePad instead.

I want to be able to store any files I want, I want proper working bluetooth and peripherals, I want to be able to run any class of software I choose. I'd quite like the option of installing Ubuntu if the bundled OS doesn't suit me, and I'd like an SD card to allow me to quickly shunt files between machines, and probably also USB, so I could use it with a cheap external keyboard or peripherals like scanners and TV tuners. Basically I'd like a full-blown slate-format version of a netbook, something that'd let me edit and reorganise files on the device itself, rather than just being a dumb satellite device like the iPT, that relies on a parent device to do all its file organisation for it.
Ideally, some sort of additional front-panel or edge-mounted navigation hardware would be useful, with a raised "feel" (unlike the Apple's single recessed "home" button) ... five buttons like the Palm organisers, or a scroll wheel or up-down buttons - something that'd let me jump straight to a few major applications and functions, and maybe page through files without having to use the touchscreen. Some people would also want an inbuilt webcam, for use with Skype. IMO, the device doesn't have to be dirt-cheap, but it has to be flexible, and for me, the Apple device just doesn't have the flexibility that I'd want if I was going to b

As far as DRM,

[falconwolf]

I'm sure Apple would be willing to work with studios to make sure their content is protected if it meant they could get free (ad-supported) streaming to the iPad and Apple TV.

While Apple developed and uses Fairplay DRM Steve Jobs also wrote that open letter asking media businesses to publish music without DRM.

Falcon

Re:As far as DRM,

[nine-times]

Yes, but they still sold music with DRM until the labels agreed to sell it without. Right now, they sell movies and TV shows with DRM. This leads me to believe that, though they'd rather go without DRM, Apple is willing to use DRM if content owners insist.

Re:As far as DRM,

[falconwolf]

Yes, but they still sold music with DRM until the labels agreed to sell it without. Right now, they sell movies and TV shows with DRM. This leads me to believe that, though they'd rather go without DRM, Apple is willing to use DRM if content owners insist.

And I agree. Though I don't like DRM Apple is a business. Like they say in politics, if you don't like it try to change it from within.

Falcon

an observation

[Anonymous Coward]

It tickles me how each story i've read about it so far tout it as being super fast, while at the same time acknowledging it can only do _one_ thing at a time.

Given all those "minuses"...

[nappingcracker]

How is it not horribly expensive? I know each person has a different version of expensive, but ~$450-850 for something that doesn't do all that much seems expensive to me. The Touchbook and Lenovo Ideapad seem like much better solutions.

Re:Given all those "minuses"...

[cheesybagel]

Well, yeah. I bought a CULV notebook in a netbook form factor a couple of days ago. Had I wanted something in a larger form factor I would have got one of those notebooks. When I say it is not horribly expensive, I mean it is not like twice as much as a PC laptop, or that much more expensive than a Kindle DX.

Connectivity?

[ErkDemon]

FYI, on the iPod Touch, bluetooth isn't what a slashdotter would consider to be "proper" bluetooth ... it only seems to be enabled for letting you play audio through a pair of wireless bluetooth headphones. You don't seem to be able to use it for conventional file transfers. You can recognise other bluetooth devices and connect, but apparently nothing else, unless its an "allowed" peripheral.

For instance, you know that fun app that lets users exchange business cards by bumping fists? AFAIK, that's not actually a bluetooth app. To get it to work, the "bump" software company has had to set up an internet server that people can subscribe to in advance, the bump application sends a bump signal over the internet to the server when the accelerometer yelps, and the server works out which pair of worldwide devices are bumping at the same time, so that it can take the business card data from the two subscribers and zap it back to the other (over their net connection?).

They had to jump through hoops to make it //look// like a bluetooth or IR transfer, but AFAIK, it's all internet (someone correct me if I've got this wrong).

If //this// device is the same, then (apart from the possibility of now allowing an Apple bluetooth keyboard) we'd seem to be just talking about wifi and the 3G option as data connectivity options.

I'm not a big Apple fan

[symbolset]

I'm really not a big fan of Apple's PC products. But if the Android ARM slates don't top this on features and ship in time for Christmas I'm afraid I'll be buying four of these.

Re:I'm not a big Apple fan

[Wakko Warner]

Do you really just enjoy wasting money?

Re:I'm not a big Apple fan

[symbolset]

I'm really quite a tightwad. But we're a technology family.

I actually need something like this for work. I have to have an obscene amount of information resources to flip out during presentations mostly in PDF format, and it matters if I have modern tech. I'm sure it will have a Citrix client available, and that will get me back to my real resources as well. My wife gets one if I do - she'll use it in the car to doublecheck the photos she takes and as a navi, maybe mount both of them to the back of the headrest for in-car video on long trips. Two high school students in the house need it for school. That's four.

I'd rather have Android slates for the freedom, but I can't wait forever and it's possible Apple has locked up the entire world's screen making capacity for the forseeable future.

Re:I'm not a big Apple fan

[slim]

My wife gets one if I do - she'll use it in the car to doublecheck the photos she takes

No USB, no card reader... how's she going to transfer her photos to the iPad?

Re:I'm not a big Apple fan

[slim]

My mistake - there will be a dongle kit for USB and SD.

Screen Replacement Industry

[exomondo]

Whoa these guys will be loving these new tablets. Replacement screens for an iphone are expensive enough, the cost to replace the glass on a broken 9.7" screen is going to be huge!

Yes. This is the year

[snowwrestler]

This is the year of Linux on the lap.

it's a lie

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only is it just a Cortex A8 with extra SoC features integrated, the features integrated are similar to the last chip (SGX graphics, etc).

And it wasn't even done by PA Semi, it was done by the same people as before, mostly John Mansfield's group! I have no idea why Apple decided to rebrand this chip as being from someone it isn't from. Lying is apparently second nature to Steve Jobs.

Re:it's a lie

[indiechild]

If you're going to spout speculative unsupported bullshit, at least have the guts to login under your username.

What are you talking about?

[pseudofrog]

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/1816257&tid=107

A quick perusing shows many highly-modded comments extolling the iPod, and no comments supporting your claims.

Ditto for the iPod Mini.

No, it has an LED backlight for its LCD screen

[falconwolf]

True but the spec page specifically states "9.7-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen Multi-Touch display with IPS technology". Cut and paste, there is no mention of LCD. On the other hand it does say it's an IPS which is an LCD technology. I wonder if it's the old IPS, H-IPS, or S-IPS.

I've been looking for an IPS panel monitor myself and have been thinking I'll get the HP HP LP2475w which is a 24" with an H-IPS panel.

Falcon

Not quite right. It's an IPS panel LCD screen,

[falconwolf]

with an LED backlight .

Yea, my mistake. I didn't see "LCD" and missed "IPS". As I told the person who's reply is above yours I wonder if it's an older IPS, H-IPS, or an S-IPS.

Falcon

Bush killed terrorists. Obama kills the economy.

[falconwolf]

Oh, all those killed in Afghanistan and Iraq were terrorists? And Bush didn't do his part in killing the economy? Didn't the recession start when he was president? And didn't he give out Billions of taxpayer dollars to those businesses who caused the problems?

And don't get the idea I support Obama, I didn't and don't.

Falcon

and what about...

[Anonymous Coward]

iPaid ... brilliant advertising for Apple's "premium" products - look, Mom, I paid !!!

It is all about flash.

[poofyhairguy82]

In the end I don't think this will be real popular, and it will be the lack of Flash that makes it unpopular- and no HTML5 is not the answer...

I am not saying that Flash or Silverlight is superior to HTML5 in any way. Flash in particular is proprietary junk. Flash versions for not popular systems (PowerPC, Linux, etc) are usually terrible, and playback of Flash requires WAY more CPU use than it should- on an Atom Netbook fullscreen Flash plays poorly in OSX. I bet Flash on one of these iPads would be super terrible on the 1GHz CPU- Steve Jobs probably considers keeping Flash out of the app store a quality control measure.

With that said the appeal of the Netbook market (which Jobs very blatantly backwards admitted is the competitors to the iPad) was that consumers could get REAL computers for cheap prices at a low size. A Netbook is supposed to be more than a gloried Pocket PC- it is a secondary system when you need more power than an Smartphone can provide. And one of the real barriers that separate a Smartphone and a laptop in 2010 is the ability to use "real" Flash. Even if all of sites switch over to HTML5 in the next year (a very optimistic goal considering that fact that IE use is so high), is it a guarantee that the iPad can play back the content well? Review will soon tell us, and then we will know if this first gen iPad has a promising future or not...

Honestly the form factor for the iPad is perfect- anyone with a brain could figure that the natural progression for Netbooks was for them to ditch the keyboards for touchscreens. Any decent SciFi since the original Star Trek has shown us how important tablet PCs will be in the future.

But the current iPad misses that mark by a great deal because it is not a full featured computer. Is is a bigger Smartphone, with all the limitations of that market.

Until an iPad can do everything a laptop can for say a college student (lacking Flash kills that- my college age sister couldn't go a day without her Hulu) or a business executive (lacking real Microsoft Office kills that for when you REALLY need Office) that what you are really looking at is a EXPENSIVE secondary "toy" for a large part of the market that currently buys laptops. Which is basically the market Netbooks have now (I will admit for serious work they are a toy), but the difference is that a Netbook costs as much as a game console, while a iPad costs as much as a REAL 15inch Windows laptop.

I can guess what Apple is thinking- that there is enough apps in the App Store to do everything that most "real" people do with computers. If someone wants a real computer for something specific then they are advanced enough to shell out the thousand bucks for a real Mac laptop. But I get the feeling that the iPad is purposefully neutered with a kiddie slope OS to ensure that it does not dig into the Mac Book market. Can't wait to see if people can Hackintosh the thing like was done to the AppleTV.

For these reason I am very disappointed in the iPad. The likelihood is that I am wrong and it might have a bright future- as it is it could revolutionize the Medical Industry. And if Apple cuts a deal with Adobe and Microsoft down the line (or HTML5 adoption increases at a brisk pace) then maybe later versions of the device will change everyone's lives and change how we think about computers. But today, as it is today, it is the most underwhelming release of a new Apple product since the AppleTV came out...

And for that I blame the fact that it was maybe one of the worst kept secrets in Apple's recent history, and for that reason a hype machine began that makes it so that even an incredible life-changing device fails to live up to expectations set for it (aka the PS3 effect)....

Developer program too expensive - No demos

[grammyputer]

I am a programmer. Outside of work, it is mostly personal or Open Source (I have to work on Windoze at work). I think $99 is too much money. I wanted to download the SDK and give it a spin to see how hard it would be to port some apps. I'm not sure I will ever do any apps, I just want to evaluate. I think a thirty day trial or something would be appropriate for a new piece of hardware. Maybe they only want paid apps?

During the whole presentation,

[mxh83]

I kept hearing the same thing in different words. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money. Give me your money.

Comic books anyone?

[Amiralul]

I was hoping for a bigger screen, to match the comic book format. It would have been a nice comics reader. Without USB and with a smaller screen, well... dunno...

Aw, nonsense.

[fyngyrz]

My lady has a macbook air. She thinks it's great. Light, etc.

I, however, have a 17" macbook pro. I think it's great. Powerful, etc.

We both take 'em everywhere we go out of town, and we're both happy. I'd say the market delivered for both of us. There is no one size fits all. On the other hand, some people think that anything that doesn't fit their preconceptions is no good, and those people, I am very comfortable saying, are wrong.

Would buy a smarter one for more money

[mattr]

Camera photo import connectivity kit looks hideously clunky. But maybe they know something about camera manufacturers going wireless?
No video camera is bad. Apple must have been incapable of cutting a deal with anyone for good lenses etc. I'd pay a lot if there was a high-end HD quality video camera built in.
Definitely I'd love to use this to read books. But not have to buy from Apple. I want it open.
Problem with using this for business: Can't sign your name or draw diagrams. Could have been smarter and made it possible to use this to lead presentations or draw on a video whiteboard. You could even pass it around a conference table to draw things that people on the other end of a video conference could see. No stylus...
So they are aiming at the "I have a Mac and now want one for the kitchen that I can take to the living room and read books on".
Maybe should wait until they make the next version?
Also I would consider buying two to stay in close touch with someone, if it could do all the time iChat and drawing with stylus.
Unfortunately it still seems to be a luxury item. I do want to buy an eBook reader, but am not sure it will be Apple's iTablet. It looks nice but... Maybe I'll wait and see if something better with an e-Ink display comes out cheaper. 10 hours for an eBook reader isn't good. It really would be good though as a control for a living room speaker system. Or maybe as a TV controller interface.

New and improved!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ipad! New and Improved!! Without wings!

It's a small world after all...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just me, or is seeing Steve Jobs with the iPad a little like seeing a dwarf with an iPod...

We should be CELEBRATING this thing

[hackshack]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that, y'all, collectively, are not the target audience for this thing. That said, we should be celebrating, rather than bitching. Here's why.

Raise your hands, please: those who've installed LogMeIn on their mothers' computers.

LogMeIn is a crutch, and you know it. You know damn well why you installed it, too. It's so you can support her when shit breaks every couple months, or when she can't figure something out.

The nice thing about the iPhone OS is that it's tight. My mom had never used a cell phone in her life, and figured out how to make a call with my iPhone in seconds. The OS is like an appliance, reliability-wise. The target audience is users, not the nerd herd, and the interface reflects that. It's basically a $500 ticket to never having to support Mother again (or really any user that "just needs the basics").

If you really think it's just a big iPhone, look at the iPad interface video (from about 1:00 - 3:00). It was the first time I actually was like, holy shit, it looks like one of those futuristic computers out of a Hollywood movie; except it actually makes logical sense, yet retains teh bling. Unlike every other OS, multitouch is "baked in" to the iPhone OS, and you can really see the level of refinement in that video. All that shit that Microsoft wishes it could do with multitouch, this thing actually does.

No, it doesn't have multitasking or an OLED display or a webcam or a fucking JTAG header; those people can vote with their ducats and get an HP Slate. Have fun troubleshooting your wireless network in Windows 7 or GNOME using your fingertips. Ugh.

Re:We should be CELEBRATING this thing

[alobar72]

I totally agree. I will definitely get one for my mom. No more "why is windows doing this" no more "explain me outlook". It pretty much does everything my mom - and I believe most of the 50+ generation - does with a "computer thing". So I agree: it is not for us - but mostly for our parents ( ok - I will get one for me too, anyway). (smart move btw: first the iPod for the teens, then the iPhone for the next generation and now the iPad - that many of us will be buying for our parents... )

Re:We should be CELEBRATING this thing

[Feral Bueller]

You nailed it.

99.9% of Slashdot are not Apple's target audience. I'm looking at you Freegan Penguinista Android fanbois.

The rest of the world, you know, the ones that bathe regularly, don't go "shopping" for their groceries out of trash bins, have managed to move out of their parents houses?

It's for them. Most people don't want to waste time farting around with their computers. They want to get whatever it is they're trying to get done, done.

Try reading this. It was written by someone who actually develops software for a living, and is apparently confident enough about their appearance to show a picture of their face on their blog.

http://speirs.org/blog/2010/1/29/future-shock.html

Coming soon to a server farm near you

[Simon Brooke]

According to various things I’ve read on the Web this morning, it is not ARM. It’s developed by PA Semi, now wholly owned by Apple, and previously a second source for PowerPC processors. So, you have an operating system which runs nicely on an ARM, which is nicely low powered and would run your new device just fine. What possible reason would you have for porting to a new processor architecture? My guess: because ARM is not 64 bit, and I'm guessing this is.

Of course, the iPad does not need 64 bit. Which means, the new processor core was not designed to the iPad. Which means, the next generation Apple desktops will use A64 chips (probably quad or eight core). But, given that this thing consumes roughly the same amount of electricity as an ARM and delivers at least as many MIPS per watt (possibly more), it’s heat output per MIP is going to be way less than Intel. Which means Apple are aiming at the server farm market, where disposing of waste heat is a big issue.

You heard it here first.

Re:Coming soon to a server farm near you

[SimonTheSoundMan]

Apple have are licensed to manufacture ARM for this product. The SDK builds for ARM on this device. Also, it runs iPhone apps natively.

Apple have had their finger in ARM processors since the 1980's when they helped Acorn Computers developer the architecture.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

is there...

[alobar72]

..a website where the unfullfilled hopes and prognosis regarding the Apple tablet are collected ? I want to post that link, when rumors about an iCar, an iHouse, or an iWife come up :-)

Pros of the cons

[itsdapead]

No camera: why would you want a rear-facing camera on a device this size? The ergonomics are totally wrong. A front-facing camera for video chat might be more sensible - but then the iPhone doesn't have that either, so its no great surprise, and the ergonomics are still less than perfect. (Personally, I think video conferncing is evil anyway).

No USB ports/VGA/need camera adaptor - I'd modify that whinge and say no USB ports or SD on the dock accessory. While the device is undocked, it should be wireless - but the dock should include the full works. I'll give them a bit of slack on VGA because there are are so many other video connection standards punters might want.

No Ethernet: So what? This is the sort of device that wireless was made for (again, maybe on the dock).

No Adobe Flash: Why is Adobe Flash evil until Apple leave it off?

more expensive than a $399 netbook: You were expecting cheap from Apple? However: tattoo on your forehead this is not a netboook. Or rather, its closer to the original EEE PC concept, before that morphed into entry level laptops. Its a web/email/media player/casual gaming appliance. If you want a small, cheap laptop PC, don't buy this.

Also remember: one of the characteristics of Apple is that they don't pack their products with legacy compatability or features that "some people might want".

Fujitsu iPAD

[haploc]

Now this will become an interesting legal fight.

Fujitsu iPAD (scroll down)
http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/retailing/technology/hardware/?navid=608#

Can we use it for sidetalking

[mousse-man]

The device looks like a prime candidate for sidetalking, at least to me.

Does it?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is all well and good but does it run Linux?

It will sell...and people will buy it

[Danathar]

Despite what every pundit and slashdot anti-apple (or even pro apple) people say. It will sell. It will sell in crazy numbers.

It does not matter that it does not have flash, USB, ethernet, etc.

It will sell.

Why? Because of Apple's reputation among consumers.

And those sites that use flash or silverlight or java will make their site iPad compatible if they want those customers.

don't be naive

[Ilgaz]

Brian, don't you know why Flash isn't included? Which tablet user would go buy stuff from iTMS or make Apple "partner" money with Youtube app if a complete browser (with flash) exists? Also check http://g.ho.st/ , with Flash and advanced HTML, it is even possible to run a virtual machine. What would happen to "app store" locks that time?

I know Gnash, sadly it is not "there" yet, if Adobe had little brain, they would support it and even adopt it. Of course, they are Adobe and they don't have the slightest clue about a full Flash 10 open source player means especially in eyes of industry.

Kindle Competition?

[assertation]

I have Kindle using Macophile voracious reader friend. He seems to think the iPad is no threat to the Kindle as the former will have a much shorter battery life. Not the kind of thing that someone who wants to read on the couch for hours at time will prefer.

breakthrough deal with AT&T

[jjmiv]

I was hoping during this event that there would be other announcements during the Apple event. I read reports of Apple stopping AT&T's exclusivity of the iPhone and adding Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile) to the fold. Well, I realized that it would take away too much from the iPad to announce something like that during the even that's supposed to feature Apple's landmark device. There's one sign that makes me think that the exclusive with AT&T will go away. During the presentation Steve Jobs himself exclaimed a "breakthrough deal with AT&T" This makes me wonder if Apple approached AT&T and stated "hey AT&T we are going to end your exclusive access to the iPhone just because its good business for us. But to show our appreciation, we want to give your first-negotiation rights with the iPad" That's what makes me think the iPhone will be going to other carriers in the US. Also, if the exclusivity deal ends in June, why would Apple announce it in January? Makes more sense to wait till its closer. That way people on Verizon aren't foaming at the mouth. Anyways, I'm sorry if this has already been said, i Just didn't feel like reading through 876543 comments on this topic.

Re:The problem is Joe User is going to buy this th

[mdm-adph]

Apparently you've missed the netbook craze, then. I've seen complete computer novices go out and buy those, and be completely fine with 10'' screens, since they're running familiar Windows XP.

And I've never seen a website tell me to update my version of Flash, unless you're running an entire version behind. :P

2 things missing

[linoleo]

That thing needs some sort of protective cover for the screen... how about a hinged lid?
Oh yeah, and while you're at it stick a keyboard inside the lid, then you'd really have something! :-)

Camera

[Nukenbar]

This could have been a great skype video phone with a built-in camera on the front.

Dvorak on Android?

[Singularity42]

Haven't seen much about that. A quick search finds some add-ons, but I'm not sure if those would work with the physical keyboards.

Re:Dvorak on Android?

[KlaymenDK]

Yeah, I know. My phone doesn't have a physical keyboard, either. You'd think that on such an open system, it would be a matter of customising an xml-based keyboard layout file, but evidently it's much more complicated.

Don't have a device, but...

[Singularity42]

This http://www.androlib.com/android.application.jp-jig-fukuno-dvorak-jAwp.aspx link seems to have some sort of Dvorak on Android program.

Re:Don't have a device, but...

[KlaymenDK]

*smacks forehead* What a find, why didn't I come up with that myself (I browse on AndroLib all the time...)! I have to try that out.

Thanks!

Apple A4 = 2010 Cyrix MediaGX???

[logicassasin]

... 'cause that's what it looks like to me. Low power CPU with integrated audio and video... But the MediaGX, which was used in the Casio Cassiopea Fiva tablet PC, was introduced in 1997 so this Apple A4 , conceptually, is a bit less than new.

iPad

[falconwolf]

...so use your iPad to stream your video from your media server as H264.

Why would I get one? For half the price I can get a 12" Wacom tablet. I don't have a media server either, besides my laptop what I have is a Linux tower PC I may setup as a file and webserver for photography.

Folks, this isn't a laptop replacement or a phone replacement.

Agreed, it has a crippled OS and can't make phone calls.

Falcon

But what about writing?

[MrCrassic]

I don't see any discussion here about actually writing on the iPad, nor did I see any mention of it in the WWDC presentation. Since the screen is capacitive, is there any possibility that it can be used as a decent notepad?

Honestly, considering the fact that "old school" tablets tout native pen support as a HUGE feature, I would be pretty disappointed if the iPad doesn't support it. However, Apple has the tendency to add significant features later in the product's lifecycle, so it might be a more viable purchase after a few updates. I'm also sure that there will be hackers out there who will be able to get OS X on it somehow, though I'm even more sure that Apple engineers thoroughly accounted for (and attempted to remove) that possibility.

I, for one, also think that the iPad will steamroll the netbook/eBook market in the months/years to come. If previous history is an indicator of anything, this will become THE device in about a year or two. Especially if people can write on it; imagine being able to actually UNDERLINE and write stuff in eBooks!

Apparently you've missed the netbook craze, then.

[falconwolf]

Not at all. Actually if all you want is something small and portable to surf the web, a netbook makes more since than an iPad. All it adds is a tablet, but it uses a crippled OS. Actually after he saw a netbook in Target my brother-in-law asked me what I thought of it, he said he thought about getting one. But I hadn't seen one there so I couldn't say. I did tell him they were fine for causal web surfing and editing simple documents. Now I don't know if he got the one Target had but my sister now carries one around.

I've seen complete computer novices go out and buy those, and be completely fine with 10'' screens

I want something I can use for photography as well as development, a 10" screen does not cut it. Actually many photographers say the minimum size of monitor for editing photos is 21". Photo.net has a number of threads on monitors in it's forums, in some people ask what size monitor they should use, in some people say they use 27", 30", or bigger monitors that cost above US$2000. I want one 24" and am thinking of getting a 24" HP LP2475w, which costs about $600. It has an H-IPS panel, is wide gamut, and has been gotten good reviews from photographers. I'd then use my MBP's LCD to hold the panels and toolbars. That is when using my laptop. When using my desktop, er tower, PC I can use my 21" monitor, an old CRT, for them.

And I've never seen a website tell me to update my version of Flash, unless you're running an entire version behind. :P

I posted the Flash player version, 10,0,42,34, which is the latest. I even copied and pasted it from the Adobe test page I linked to.

• You Tube keeps saying i need to upgrade my adobe flash player but still cant play videos. Help!?
• "You need to upgrade your Flash Player by clicking this link" I did but still not working
• You need to upgrade your Flash Player

Google has many more results for need to upgrade flash player.

Falcon

Enewspapers and Emagazines could save the planet

[awalker76]

Here is an article that talks about some amazing possibilities for the iPad. I for one think that this is a great thing and if it is used and marketed properly it can mean huge strides toward green living and environmental friendliness for everyone. Read the article here http://hubpages.com/hub/Daily-E-Newspapers-and-E-Magazines-for-Apple-iPad-or-eBook-Readers

Apple iPad Backed As Business Tool By Forrester

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/mwc--apple-ipad-backed-as-business-tool-by-forrester-3221