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Southwest Declares Kevin Smith Too Fat To Fly
theodp writes "Kevin Smith is not a happy Southwest customer. The director was thrown off a flight from Oakland to Burbank, after being deemed too fat to fly. He later wound up on another Southwest flight, but has declared It's On and taken his rants to Twitter. 'Dear @SouthwestAir — I know I'm fat, but was Captain Leysath really justified in throwing me off a flight for which I was already seated?' he began. He also let the airline know he'd made it to his destination. 'Hey @SouthwestAir! I've landed in Burbank. Don't worry: wall of the plane was opened & I was airlifted out while Richard Simmons supervised.'"
I'll bet Southwest will wish he really was Silent Bob.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Do you even know who this guy is? He isn't THAT big.
I still think its awesome, but let's keep this next celebrity rivalry off of slashdot. Slashdot didn't cover trump vs o'donnel, and it doesn't cover paris hilton, so while Kevin Smith is a nerd celeb, let's not report on every twitter update in this matter? Mmmkay?
Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
They should kick the people off who are jerks, to smell, too. Those are even more offensive
If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.
how exactly is the airline supposed to know he is too fat when they sell the ticket? Most airlines sell their tickets online without ever seeing the person.
Qxe4
I'm about 135 pounds. Why the fuck do I get charged extra if my bag is 55 pounds, when the fat bastard behind me has 150 pounds on me, and his bag is slightly less? Like somebody mentioned above, yes, I DO think they should weigh people before they get on. The nominal reason for this is fuel charges, right? Can I get a discount because I'm not toting my giant bloated belly around?
</rant>
The only reason they're working to resolve it is because of Kevin Smith. If it was a nobody with no platform to mention this from, Southwest would've cared much less.
Do you even know who this guy is? He isn't THAT big.
Are you referring to his weight or his career?
http://www.macworld.com/article/146331/2010/02/kevinsmith.html
IIRC, airline regulations require that a passenger be in THEIR seat. If you're sitting next to a morbidly obese person, and they annoy you, just ask them to stay in their space. If they cannot, and it bothers you a lot, call a stewardess and explain that you understand your rights, and wish her to enforce them. At this point, the person who cannot remain in their seat will either be assigned a new one or forced to deplane. If you're fat, and upset by this--suck it up. You did not pay for the space the other passenger is in. THEY did.
C//
If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.
I understand the sentiment, but how would you implement that? Are you going to make people weigh in before they can buy a ticket? Going to rely on self reporting?
I've always thought that people should be counted in the weight allowance instead of just luggage. A bit porky like me? You get to bring less stuff (or pay more for the same stuff). Properly obese? You get even less. That and people who are for too large to fit in a single seat (with people to their sides being comfortable too) should be made to purchase the double seat they need.
Of course there are logistical complications to this. Firstly there is weight distribution between the passenger cabin and luggage hold which may affect the handling of the craft if most of the passengers are porkies with little luggage. And there is the issue of defining what constitutes too big for one seat. And finally there will be the people who cry like babies and moan that "it isn't my fault" - well it might not be (in which case get a medical cert and we'll consider some extra compassion) but it isn't the airline's fault either and it certainly isn't the fault of the other passengers who get less space between them because of your lardy presence. Another complication is what to do at the other end of the scale - it would be important not to encourage the "a stick of celery and half a tomato is more than enough for lunch" mob so there would need to be lower limit on the luggage gains (perhaps the weight distribution issue would be a legitimate reason for imposing this lower limit).
FYI: I'm a chunk overweight myself and not exactly getting any less so as time passes, and I would have no problem with getting a lower luggage allowance than someone of more healthy proportions. It seems quite fair to me: I want you to transport X kilograms of stuff from here to there which will use up Y amount of fuel, it just so happens that Z% of that mass is me and the heavy boots I prefer to wear. What's that? Xkg is over the total allowance and I'll have to pay a fee for the extra? Fair enough.
According to http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
It sounds like the determination is made if you can not fit within the confines of a standard seat with the arm rests down on both sides. I wonder if they don't have a test airplane seat you can sit in before hand at the terminal before trying to board or set of measurements you can take at home before buying your ticket/boarding to reduce the potential for embarrassment of being forced off the plane once you try to seat onboard.
From the link above:
"I am a large person and use a seatbelt extension, but I fit in one aircraft seat. Do I have to purchase two seats? Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. We use the ability to lower the armrests as the gauge, as the armrests are truly the definitive boundary between each seat."
Another interesting tidibt from the link:
Are all overweight people subject to the policy?
Many Americans are "overweight" or "clinically obese." A number of overweight or obese people occupy only one seat. In fact, many Customers may use a seatbelt extension but occupy only one seat, and these Customers would not be asked to reserve a second seat. If a Customer cannot lower the armrest (and is unable to comfortably travel with it in the down position), he/she is required to pay for the additional seat occupied. Again, we will offer a refund if the flight does not oversell.
.... ... }
int main (void) {
Here's what really happened.
The pilot, a registered Republican, woke up from his nap (pilots cat-nap as much as they can because of the new budget-saving schedules), saw the guy, and mistook him for Michael Moore.
If you take up two seats, pay for two seats. And not one here and one 4 aisles back.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
The only reason they're working to resolve it is because of Kevin Smith. If it was a nobody with no platform to mention this from, Southwest would've cared much less.
Actually, I suspect it's mostly because it's on Twitter that they reacted at all. Random average Joes have had similar responses from other corporations as well. They tend to be scared to death of bad publicity and Twitter especially seems to make them nervous.
Of course, the fact that it's a celebrity, however minor (sorry Kevin; I love your films but ...) on Twitter doesn't exactly hurt.
You know the thing about UDP jokes? I don't care if you get it or not.
My guess is that weight isn't the issue, it's volume size and overflow into adjacent seats. Could a fat man fly if he didn't have any checked bags? Could a high density, heavily muscled, guy get kicked off because he weighs too much but is compact enough to not overflow the seat? If it is weight dependent, couldn't a fat man pay the extra $10 in fuel?.. or reduce his baggage weight? I think it has to do with seat overflow.. which is related to weight but more about volume.
http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
They do. They're called doors.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Romanes eunt domus!
If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets.
Well, what it comes down to is they can only sell whole seats. Your 6 year old might only need half a seat, but that still means he's taking up the whole seat - they can't sell the other half seat to someone else. A fat guy might prefer to buy 1.5 seats, but that isn't an option: he has to buy 2 seats, and that second seat is being taken away from another paying customer.
On the other hand, there's a possible solution: seat the kid who isn't using half of his seat next to the fat guy who needs an extra half seat. But in order to accurately bill everyone for the fractional seats they use, the airline would have to know everyone's measurements ahead of time (not just weight, because bulk is what really matters).
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets.
It's simple: Airlines don't sell distance per gas consumed. They sell seats. People are not packages. You can't fly more of them in a plane if they weight less in a linear manner. One seat is the minimum allocation unit you can buy. Whether you use the whole seat just put your purse on it is not their business. You're paying for it if you're going to use it. If you're so fat that you cannot fit into the single smallest allocation unit they provide, you will have to purchase two of them (or upgrade to a higher class with bigger seats).
I think he's closer to 350. He even says about himself in an interview:
"I'm really, really fat right now. Fattest I've ever been. I broke a toilet. That's how heavy I am. I can't take all the credit — that was an old toilet and a very waterlogged wall — but my size took that toilet down."
Apparently (does anyone RTFA!?) he usually buys two seats when flying SWA, anyway - so he admits it's a problem. In this case he tried to take an earlier flight standby, and they didn't have two seats available. So SWA put him on the next flight that did. I don't see the problem...
some people just have big bones.
And then some people are just fat.
The terms don't exactly look secret. From: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
The armrest is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size. It serves as the boundary between seats and measures 17 inches in width. Customers who are unable to lower both armrests and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed prior to travel.
In fact that looks pretty darn simple and straightforward (and fair) - if you fit in the seat (that's the bit between the armrests) then sit in it, otherwise buy more than one seat.
It'll still be a lot cheaper for fat people than tall people who have to pay for business class (ain't no special offers for upgrades if you're too tall to fit your knees behind the cattle class seat, I've tried). Furthermore, fat people can lose weight, tall people are stuck being tall.
Damn straight it's about seat overflow. I flew from LA to Sydney (15 hr flight) next to a rather stout Polish tire salesman. He couldn't even fit into the damn seat! He lifted the arm rest, took over half of my seat, and I would up crunched against a couple next to me.
When I found out, I complained to the QANTAS stewardess, and she said that I could move seats later. Quite hard on a full plane.
you know how uncomfortable it is having a seat rest firmly wedged in your back for 15 hours?
Sorry people of carriage, but if your caboose cannot fit into the seat to the point where you need to lift your armrest, you simply need to buy another god damned seat.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
Of course it's about overflow, and those of us who take care not to be grossly fat fucks shouldn't have to be victims of the hambeast in the next seat.
No sympathy here. If you don't fit an airline seat, cargo net your fat disgusting ass to a pallet and go air freight.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I was flying from Newark to SanFran. And I was in the last row. Ahead of me were three ladies, and these ladies were HUGE! The interesting part was that these three ladies all had to sit in the same row. They complained and said that they would like new seats. The stewardesses in their nicest voice said, "sorry but this flight is full and you will have to sit in your assigned seats."
When the ladies had to sit they moved up all of the armrests and honest to goodness their butts and bodies melted into one another! Needless to say most people around those ladies were relieved that they did not have to endure one those ladies sitting beside them.
I thought it was pretty efficient for Delta to say, "hey you want to be fat, go for it, its a free country. But while we are at it we are going to put you beside each other..."
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Airlines have overcrammed more seats into each plane than the original designers would have believed possible. When people complain, they respond with "You're freakishly tall," or "You're mbidly obese," when the real answer is "The airlines are so greedy they're cramming so many people into their cargo hold it would make a slave trader of old boggle."
My 5'2", 100lb mother-in-law complains that they've made the seats too small to be comfortable, and she's been flying for 50 years. Do we really think the problem is Kevin Smith is too husky?
How about this for an answer? Let's make airline seats the same size and legroom as movie theater seats and see if the problem goes away.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
This shouldn't be modded troll because he's spot on. Obesity is one of the few diseases that is self inflicted and especially for a rich celebrity who will have access to the finest health care, there really isn't much excuse. If he's happy with it then fine but like all freedoms there are responsibilities. It really hacks me off when people cry for their freedoms but once the responsibilities come up they want nothing to do with those.
"Customer of Size"? Is that like "People of Color"? Has political correctness come so far that you can't even call someone a fatass any more? I'm with Southwest on this one. Brilliant director or not, if I had to spend an "Evening with Kevin Smith" squished up against him in a coach-class seat, I would not be happy and would be demanding my ticket price back. They tried to accommodate his special request to fly early and couldn't. He should graciously accept their apology (it's more than he would have gotten from me).
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
He normally buys double seats due to his width.
This time he was on standby and there was no double seat for him. To prevent the person next to him from suffering the overflow they made him take the next flight and gave him $100 for his trouble.
He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.
No sig today...
I find pushing it back upright, perhaps with the occasional irritated punch, always works.
Maybe it's the look on my face whenever anybody actually turns around to complain..
I support this 100%. Mastering a proper scowl is a must for minimizing verbal garbage.
"Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
What if the fat bastard tries to eat your kid?
Then he would have to pay extra on the food portion of his ticket. And your kid would get a corresponding discount.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Mr Smith is acting like an asshole. That sort of language isn't going to win him any sympathy from SWA even if they WERE wrong.
Two things.
First, it can't be all genetic. People living in the US aren't native americans for the most part, they came for a large part from Europe, not so long ago. They shouldn't have wildly different genetics, yet you're going to find a lot more fat people in the US than in Europe.
What the US has that is considerably different is the food and the layout of the cities. When I came to the US I was quite amazed at the rather insane serving sizes. An US "normal" sized ice cream is something I simply couldn't finish eating. The idea of a restaurant serving enough food that you'd ask for a box to take it home was completely alien to me before visiting the US. Getting the drinks refilled constantly was another new thing.
Also, in Europe you can, and usually do walk to places. Even if you have a car, there is a small grocery store somewhere nearby you can walk to when you find you don't have enough milk, and not far enough to actually bother getting into the car. In the parts of the US I've been to, however, it seems impossible to do that as the streets aren't made for it.
Second, no matter what kind of metabolism you have, you can't violate the conservation of energy. If you use enough energy, or eat less than you consume, you will HAVE to get slimmer, eventually. Your body can't create additional mass out of nowhere, or produce energy to keep you going out of nothing.
Co-pilot, rev up the left engine, hmmm, for some reason we are tilting..
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
And the women who wear way too much perfume or hairspray and make my eyes water the entire trip.
And the dialect of some of the southerners is just appalling.
And the way the chinese people talk to each other just sounds annoying and I can't even think when they are talking!
And the old people constantly talking about what they ate just kills me.
And the smell of baby powder on the baby next to me is really gonna ruin my meal.
And the mothers breast feeding babies just grosses me out.
And the midgets being seated with the rest of us is just ridiculous.
And the dreadlocks on that rasta guy is disgusting.
And that kid with a cold is ridiculous and he should not be flying with me!
------------ (that was all sarcasm)
Ever stop to think that someone doesn't like you, either? Maybe they don't always feel the need to tell you why you're bugging them, but I'm sure there are plenty of 'reasons' to be overly sensitive over.
I'm not saying you complained about the kid with a cold, but I would bet people that have been upset about it have taken flights with contagious diseases of their own as well.
Life isn't so shitty if you learn to like it.
... and now for something completely different!
You awake to find yourself on a Southwest flight out of Oakland. It is pitch black.
You are likely to the eaten by Kevin Smith.
Boycott? I am more likely to fly with them now I realise that I am less likely to have someone like him squeezed into the seat next to me.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Numerous airplanes (except the small ones) have varying sized seats (even in coach) - just like many movie theaters.
Huh? What plane and what theater? I've never seen either!
I spent a nice 11 hour flight across the Pacific with a morbidly obese Singaporean guy going home after a comic con (he owned a comic book store). His arm was all the way into the middle of my chest, and his upper fat roll engulfed the arm rest. I couldn't believe that he was allowed on with one seat. I asked a sky waitress if there was anything we could do, but the plane was full and said I'd have to take another flight if I didn't like my seat.
I would have to take another flight because the fatass next to me was taking up half of my seat!
I just pounded Chivas Regal throughout the trip so I wouldn't care so much.
As I did, I started chatting with him. He was a really nice guy, although way too otaku for my tastes. It made it harder for me to wish death upon him, so I've decided to instead wish death upon United Airlines.
This is a serious problem and needs to be addressed as a matter of course. I payed full price for half a seat!
Yep. I've been known to demand that the person next to me leave the armrest down, and called the flight attendant to enforce it. There is no requirement that passengers be allowed to put armrests up during a flight if the adjacent passenger does not wish to. I find that mentioning "inappropriate physical contact" with a hint of sexual harassment gets the airline's staff's attention.
What's your point? It's OK to be morbidly obese as long as your wife is hot? Does it occur to you that health might be something worth considering hot wife or no?
For many men (both heterosexual and homosexual), particularly those who are single and under the age of 40, a key motivator to get fit is not 'health reasons.' Rather, it's the desire to be more sexually attractive to a mate. In Kevin Smith's case, this motivator isn't present. He's already got an attractive mate. Therefore, in his case a key incentive to lose weight, quit smoking and reduce drug use isn't present. Usually the next driver comes after a health scare (i.e. heart attack or diabetes), and that may not happen for another 10-15 years.
Centurion: What's this, then? "Romanes eunt domus"? People called Romanes, they go, the house?
Brian: It says, "Romans go home. "
Centurion: No it doesn't ! What's the latin for "Roman"? Come on, come on !
Brian: Er, "Romanus" !
Centurion: Vocative plural of "Romanus" is?
Brian: Er, er, "Romani" !
Centurion: [Writes "Romani" over Brian's graffiti] "Eunt"? What is "eunt"? Conjugate the verb, "to go" !
Brian: Er, "Ire". Er, "eo", "is", "it", "imus", "itis", "eunt".
Centurion: So, "eunt" is...?
Brian: Third person plural present indicative, "they go".
Centurion: But, "Romans, go home" is an order. So you must use...?
[He twists Brian's ear]
Brian: Aaagh ! The imperative !
Centurion: Which is...?
Brian: Aaaagh ! Er, er, "i" !
Centurion: How many Romans?
Brian: Aaaaagh ! Plural, plural, er, "ite" !
Centurion: [Writes "ite"] "Domus"? Nominative? "Go home" is motion towards, isn't it?
Brian: Dative !
[the Centurion holds a sword to his throat]
Brian: Aaagh ! Not the dative, not the dative ! Er, er, accusative, "Domum" !
Centurion: But "Domus" takes the locative, which is...?
Brian: Er, "Domum" !
Centurion: [Writes "Domum"] Understand? Now, write it out a hundred times.
Brian: Yes sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir.
Centurion: Hail Caesar ! And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.
I've seen this policy applied before by Continental. A kid of about 17 years old was forced to buy a 2nd ticket. Or rather was forced to call the mother of his friend who had purchased his tickets for him to make her buy another ticket. He told me this as the 2 of us were sitting in the 3-seat row of the plane as his way of letting me know I wouldn't have to worry about someone taking the middle seat because he paid for it. He was quite embarrassed.
I personally am a bigger dude, but not that big, so I was relieved we were going to have some extra space.
Then Continental seated a deadheading pilot from another airline in that empty seat. For free. And the kid next to him was able, barely, to lower the arm rest.
The kid was too embarrassed to speak up for himself. So I mentioned it to both the pilot as well as the Continental flight attendant for our section. The pilot's reaction? "I dunno, not my call". The stewardess? Pretty much no response at all.
I've seen a similar case as well where the person bought 2 seats and someone on standby was given their seat. In that case the airline refunded their money and let the person on standby take the seat. Which means the airline wasn't caring at all about the safety of anyone, they just wanted their cash.
The airline policies are invoked willy-nilly at THEIR convenience without a care for the injury caused. The policies would be understandable if they were enforced justly and equally, but they do not. If you buy 2 seats then the flight attendants should not be able to reassign you. I could name plenty of other policies that get applied unfairly too, like luggage sizes, after 13 years of business travel ... but they would get so mind-numbing that it's just not worth it.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
Spoken like a true fatty. If you put as much effort into losing weight as you do making up excuses for your giant arse, you might be better off.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary, and nine other kinds of people.
Coming from a guy named couchslug...
You seem to want First Class elbow room at steerage prices. For that you can't blame fat folks, you can blame your cheapness or poorness.
No, we can blame the really fat guy encroaching onto our seat. The seat that we paid for. The seat that would be fine if it weren't for the guy next to us being really overweight. Airline seats are a certain size. In economy they're pretty small because fares are so damn cheap. Why the hell should I have to pay for a first class seat just to get the elbow room I deserve in economy? This isn't about being poor or being cheap, it's about someone being too fucking big to fit in an economy seat. Let the fat guy spend the cash on a bigger seat in first class. How dare you say it's my responsibility to pay extra cash to accomodate the obesity of someone else. If anyone is being too cheap/poor in this situation it's the fat guy who won't spring for the extra seat that he needs, or one larger seat in a higher class.
You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!