Southwest Declares Kevin Smith Too Fat To Fly

theodp writes "Kevin Smith is not a happy Southwest customer. The director was thrown off a flight from Oakland to Burbank, after being deemed too fat to fly. He later wound up on another Southwest flight, but has declared It's On and taken his rants to Twitter. 'Dear @SouthwestAir — I know I'm fat, but was Captain Leysath really justified in throwing me off a flight for which I was already seated?' he began. He also let the airline know he'd made it to his destination. 'Hey @SouthwestAir! I've landed in Burbank. Don't worry: wall of the plane was opened & I was airlifted out while Richard Simmons supervised.'"

Comments

Before the dust settles

[Vinegar Joe]

I'll bet Southwest will wish he really was Silent Bob.

Re:Before the dust settles

[jra]

Perhaps.

Here's their blog response: http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/not-so-silent-bob

Re:Before the dust settles

[crazycheetah]

Did blogsouthwest just get slashdotted?

Re:Before the dust settles

[Anonymous Coward]

Twitter: "For people too fat to fly or type more than 140 characters."

Re:Before the dust settles

[HybridJeff]

Copied from the google cache.

Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you. We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines.

As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well. Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank - as he's been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.

You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.

Re:Before the dust settles

[MrNaz]

As a traveler I hare airlines. They are a bunch of snivelling money grubbing slime balls who would never give anyone an inch more room than they paid for in blood.

That said, SWA's response does sound quite reasonable, much as it pains me to admit.

Re:Before the dust settles

[twiddlingbits]

Yep, I fly a lot too, SWA's response is very nice and very reasonable. It's a LOT more than other airlines, say American, would do. In this case the customer IS wrong and SWA points that out in a nice way.

Re:Before the dust settles

[CohibaVancouver]

As a traveler I hare airlines. They are a bunch of snivelling money grubbing slime balls who would never give anyone an inch more room than they paid for in blood.

The main reason airlines never give 'anyone an inch' is because their profit margins are unbelievably small - They transport thousands a day. An inch here and inch there, and suddenly they're bankrupt.

This happens largely because airline passengers day to day often have little brand loyalty. They simply shop for the cheapest fare.

Re:Before the dust settles

[CohibaVancouver]

If a company wants my loyalty, they have to be loyal to me. Pretending to give a shit when my luggage goes missing or waiving the cost of one of those padded sleeping goggle whatchamacallits instead of carrying on like I'm trying to screw them out of the 2c those things cost would go a long way

Right, but you're the exception, not the rule. Airline customers *claim* they'd pay more for a fare that included things like free eyemasks and pretzels, but then when the time comes to book a ticket they pick the airline with the cheapest fare. Airlines have, in the past, tried to be 'loyal to you' and have learned it gets them nowhere, at least in the USA and Canada. Customers aren't interested in good service, they're interested in getting where they're going on the cheap, pure and simple - And with respect to service, passengers have reaped what they've sown. Compared to 20 years ago, airline fares are dramatically cheaper, and service is dramatically worse. Coincidence? I think not...

Re:Before the dust settles

[griffjon]

No, they just ran out of Capital Letters to make Various Departments and Policies sound More Official.

Re:Before the dust settles

[morari]

That sounds perfectly reasonable. Maybe this Kevin Smith guy should try getting outside and exercising now and then instead of sitting around on his fat ass in his mom's basement bitching on the internet.

Re:Before the dust settles

[Jaqenn]

I'm 5'11", and I would fly folded into a 4'x4'x4' box if it would save me $50.

Welp, that's it

[gruvmeister]

There goes the last shred of credibility Twitter may have had. Fatties are now using it to vent rage over how cruel the world is for discriminating against them for being fat.

Maybe if he directed some of that rage into jogging or not stuffing twinkies into his maw it wouldn't be a problem.

Re:Welp, that's it

[shentino]

If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.

And they'd better damn well have given him a full refund or a free transfer or it's fraud.

Re:Welp, that's it

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you even know who this guy is? He isn't THAT big.

Re:Welp, that's it

[phantomfive]

They put him on the next flight and gave him a $100 voucher. Didn't seem to make him feel better, and I can't say I would feel better either, but about your point

If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.

how exactly is the airline supposed to know he is too fat when they sell the ticket? Most airlines sell their tickets online without ever seeing the person.

Re:Welp, that's it

[Hatta]

If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.

I understand the sentiment, but how would you implement that? Are you going to make people weigh in before they can buy a ticket? Going to rely on self reporting?

Re:Welp, that's it

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you even know who this guy is? He isn't THAT big.

Are you referring to his weight or his career?

Re:Welp, that's it

[Servaas]

http://www.macworld.com/article/146331/2010/02/kevinsmith.html

Re:Welp, that's it

[pipedwho]

If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.

And they'd better damn well have given him a full refund or a free transfer or it's fraud.

Either that, or they should never have sold me a ticket when I failed to mention I have a chronic aversion to sitting next to someone who overhangs their seat so far that I can't see my own lap.

And if they don't give me a full refund or transfer, then it's $RANDOM_LEGAL_TERM.

Re:Welp, that's it

[asdf7890]

If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.

I understand the sentiment, but how would you implement that? Are you going to make people weigh in before they can buy a ticket? Going to rely on self reporting?

I've always thought that people should be counted in the weight allowance instead of just luggage. A bit porky like me? You get to bring less stuff (or pay more for the same stuff). Properly obese? You get even less. That and people who are for too large to fit in a single seat (with people to their sides being comfortable too) should be made to purchase the double seat they need.

Of course there are logistical complications to this. Firstly there is weight distribution between the passenger cabin and luggage hold which may affect the handling of the craft if most of the passengers are porkies with little luggage. And there is the issue of defining what constitutes too big for one seat. And finally there will be the people who cry like babies and moan that "it isn't my fault" - well it might not be (in which case get a medical cert and we'll consider some extra compassion) but it isn't the airline's fault either and it certainly isn't the fault of the other passengers who get less space between them because of your lardy presence. Another complication is what to do at the other end of the scale - it would be important not to encourage the "a stick of celery and half a tomato is more than enough for lunch" mob so there would need to be lower limit on the luggage gains (perhaps the weight distribution issue would be a legitimate reason for imposing this lower limit).

FYI: I'm a chunk overweight myself and not exactly getting any less so as time passes, and I would have no problem with getting a lower luggage allowance than someone of more healthy proportions. It seems quite fair to me: I want you to transport X kilograms of stuff from here to there which will use up Y amount of fuel, it just so happens that Z% of that mass is me and the heavy boots I prefer to wear. What's that? Xkg is over the total allowance and I'll have to pay a fee for the extra? Fair enough.

Re:Welp, that's it

[PolygamousRanchKid]

how exactly is the airline supposed to know he is too fat when they sell the ticket? Most airlines sell their tickets online without ever seeing the person.

Well, I'm no fan of sitting next to fatties either, but maybe they should have decided *before* they let him board the plane?

Like, when I was a kid at amusement parks, they had signs, "you must be this tall to get on this ride."

Why don't they have similar constructions at airports that say, "you must be skinny enough to fit through this to get on this plane" . . . ?

That would save everyone some grief later on.

Re:Welp, that's it

[The Grim Reefer2]

If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.

And they'd better damn well have given him a full refund or a free transfer or it's fraud.

I understand where you are coming from as I have to fly frequently and am tired of everything that the airlines have taken away from their customers over the years. However I also find it annoying when I'm stuck sitting next to someone who clearly should be forced to purchased two seats for their fat ass. Why should I have to deal with their fat ass spilling over into my already cramped space? If they choose to be the size of two people I nor someone else that is stuck sitting next to them should have to suffer for it.

We also don't know the entire story. There may have been weight or weight balance issues. It's common on smaller planes to have to move people to the back of the plane for balance issues. Perhaps he didn't want to give up his first class seat (not that I fly Southwest so I don't know if they even have it) or just refused to move to the back of the plane. Perhaps the captain chose to boot one fat person rather than two normal sized people. That would make sense to me. This probably happens all of the time to regular people. I get tired of celebrities who get treated like everyone else and then use their status to make a big deal about it.

Re:Welp, that's it

[TheRaven64]

I never understood this either. It's also not just fat people. A weight limit in your luggage encourages you to put all of the heavy things in your coat pockets or hand luggage for the flight. Why do I pay less for something heavy in my hand luggage than something heavy in my stored bag? You should pay the same amount for 1kg, whether it's 1kg in a suitcase, 1kg of hand luggage, or 1kg of you.

Re:Welp, that's it

[tibman]

My guess is that weight isn't the issue, it's volume size and overflow into adjacent seats. Could a fat man fly if he didn't have any checked bags? Could a high density, heavily muscled, guy get kicked off because he weighs too much but is compact enough to not overflow the seat? If it is weight dependent, couldn't a fat man pay the extra $10 in fuel?.. or reduce his baggage weight? I think it has to do with seat overflow.. which is related to weight but more about volume.

Re:Welp, that's it

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, don't forget the skinny, tall people like me (6'2", 135lbs). I can't get into a seat without my knees getting smashed by the seat ahead. And forget it if the person in front tries to put the seat back. I can only fit (semi-comfortably) in exit-row seats, or other rows where there's extra leg space.

It's one of the reasons why I now refuse to fly.

Re:Welp, that's it

[Hognoxious]

Why don't they have similar constructions at airports that say, "you must be skinny enough to fit through this to get on this plane" . . . ?

They do. They're called doors.

Re:Welp, that's it

[ae1294]

Romanes eunt domus!

Re:Welp, that's it

[gid]

I hate flying for the same exact reason. I can control my weight by diet, but I'd have to cut my legs off if I was to get any shorter. (6'5) On the same note, some amusement park rides are excruciating, especially the ones with the over the shoulder harnesses. They need to have a height max, in addition to a height minimum--I've learned that there's just something things to avoid.

Re:Welp, that's it

[colin_young]

Actually, you'd probably create a secondary market where us skinny folks could sell our "extra" weight allowance. Assuming of course that the airlines couldn't find some way to have laws passed to outlaw that (kind of like how they didn't complain too hard about the ID requirements since it neatly solved a business problem for them, namely the resale of unused return tickets, although that's become less of an issue now that one can routinely find one-way tickets for close to half the round trip fare).

Re:Welp, that's it

[thewils]

What's all this then?

People called Romanes, they go, the house?

Re:Welp, that's it

[Foolicious]

In this case, "Romanes eat donuts"

Re:Welp, that's it

[ray-auch]

The terms don't exactly look secret. From: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html

The armrest is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size. It serves as the boundary between seats and measures 17 inches in width. Customers who are unable to lower both armrests and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed prior to travel.

In fact that looks pretty darn simple and straightforward (and fair) - if you fit in the seat (that's the bit between the armrests) then sit in it, otherwise buy more than one seat.

It'll still be a lot cheaper for fat people than tall people who have to pay for business class (ain't no special offers for upgrades if you're too tall to fit your knees behind the cattle class seat, I've tried). Furthermore, fat people can lose weight, tall people are stuck being tall.

Re:Welp, that's it

[Cryacin]

Damn straight it's about seat overflow. I flew from LA to Sydney (15 hr flight) next to a rather stout Polish tire salesman. He couldn't even fit into the damn seat! He lifted the arm rest, took over half of my seat, and I would up crunched against a couple next to me.

When I found out, I complained to the QANTAS stewardess, and she said that I could move seats later. Quite hard on a full plane.

you know how uncomfortable it is having a seat rest firmly wedged in your back for 15 hours?

Sorry people of carriage, but if your caboose cannot fit into the seat to the point where you need to lift your armrest, you simply need to buy another god damned seat.

Re:Welp, that's it

[couchslug]

Of course it's about overflow, and those of us who take care not to be grossly fat fucks shouldn't have to be victims of the hambeast in the next seat.

No sympathy here. If you don't fit an airline seat, cargo net your fat disgusting ass to a pallet and go air freight.

Re:Welp, that's it

[SerpentMage]

I was flying from Newark to SanFran. And I was in the last row. Ahead of me were three ladies, and these ladies were HUGE! The interesting part was that these three ladies all had to sit in the same row. They complained and said that they would like new seats. The stewardesses in their nicest voice said, "sorry but this flight is full and you will have to sit in your assigned seats."

When the ladies had to sit they moved up all of the armrests and honest to goodness their butts and bodies melted into one another! Needless to say most people around those ladies were relieved that they did not have to endure one those ladies sitting beside them.

I thought it was pretty efficient for Delta to say, "hey you want to be fat, go for it, its a free country. But while we are at it we are going to put you beside each other..."

Re:Welp, that's it

[MichaelSmith]

It could be a bit like the frame they use to assess carry on baggage. If they can't fit through this narrow doorway they can't get on the plane.

Re:Welp, that's it

[MichaelSmith]

I probably weigh as much as Kevin Smith, but my BMI is about normal. I am 193 cm tall and I find economy seats very uncomfortable. Any taller and I wonder if it would even be safe to travel in those seats.

Re:Welp, that's it

[Antique Geekmeister]

Please actually read the twitter and the letter from Southwest. They sold him _2_ tickets, to accomodate his size, but he switched to an earlier flight at the last minute. That means his new pair of seats were standby, not confirmed seating, so legally they offered him 2 seats _if they had the space_. They didn't have the space, so couldn't accomodate him. They shouldn't have seated him considering his size: at the last photo I saw of Silent Bob, he was pretty big and definitely needs 2 of those teeny little Southwest seats.

Re:Welp, that's it

[ChrisMaple]

tall people are stuck being tall.

Let me introduce you to Mr. Procrustes.

Re:Welp, that's it

[nanospook]

Co-pilot, rev up the left engine, hmmm, for some reason we are tilting..

Re:Welp, that's it

[need4mospd]

Confucius say, man who walk through airport turnstile sideways is going to Bangkok.

Re:Welp, that's it

[ae1294]

... and now for something completely different!

You awake to find yourself on a Southwest flight out of Oakland. It is pitch black.
You are likely to the eaten by Kevin Smith.

Re:Welp, that's it

[CohibaVancouver]

Numerous airplanes (except the small ones) have varying sized seats (even in coach) - just like many movie theaters. Simply accomodating a larger passenger by placing them in a larger seat seems to be a viable method of ensuring people's comfort.

Can you provide some specific examples of carriers and seat configurations? I fly about once a month, mostly on US-based 'domestic' routes, and I'm not familiar with what you're talking about. An airline like United has 2 types of passenger seats on the aircraft - A wider 'business class' seat, and a narrower 'economy class' seat. United also has "Economy Plus" whereby they increase the seat pitch (the distance between the seat and the seat in front of it). Southwest is all one class, with identical seats.

A transatlantic mainline carrier might have four classes of service: First class, business class, "premium economy" and economy. However, this is rarely the case flying economy in the United States.

Re:Welp, that's it

[mysidia]

Actually, what they should do is publicly disclose the maximum distance around your waist.

E.g. They can print something like "To get on this plane, you must have a waste circumference no larger than 15"

So then people can simply measure themsevles, and avoid any unanticipated embarassment.

Re:Welp, that's it

[kklein]

Numerous airplanes (except the small ones) have varying sized seats (even in coach) - just like many movie theaters.

Huh? What plane and what theater? I've never seen either!

I spent a nice 11 hour flight across the Pacific with a morbidly obese Singaporean guy going home after a comic con (he owned a comic book store). His arm was all the way into the middle of my chest, and his upper fat roll engulfed the arm rest. I couldn't believe that he was allowed on with one seat. I asked a sky waitress if there was anything we could do, but the plane was full and said I'd have to take another flight if I didn't like my seat.

I would have to take another flight because the fatass next to me was taking up half of my seat!

I just pounded Chivas Regal throughout the trip so I wouldn't care so much.

As I did, I started chatting with him. He was a really nice guy, although way too otaku for my tastes. It made it harder for me to wish death upon him, so I've decided to instead wish death upon United Airlines.

This is a serious problem and needs to be addressed as a matter of course. I payed full price for half a seat!

Re:Welp, that's it

[michael_cain]

Sorry people of carriage, but if your caboose cannot fit into the seat to the point where you need to lift your armrest, you simply need to buy another god damned seat.

Yep. I've been known to demand that the person next to me leave the armrest down, and called the flight attendant to enforce it. There is no requirement that passengers be allowed to put armrests up during a flight if the adjacent passenger does not wish to. I find that mentioning "inappropriate physical contact" with a hint of sexual harassment gets the airline's staff's attention.

Re:Welp, that's it

[CohibaVancouver]

What's your point? It's OK to be morbidly obese as long as your wife is hot? Does it occur to you that health might be something worth considering hot wife or no?

For many men (both heterosexual and homosexual), particularly those who are single and under the age of 40, a key motivator to get fit is not 'health reasons.' Rather, it's the desire to be more sexually attractive to a mate. In Kevin Smith's case, this motivator isn't present. He's already got an attractive mate. Therefore, in his case a key incentive to lose weight, quit smoking and reduce drug use isn't present. Usually the next driver comes after a health scare (i.e. heart attack or diabetes), and that may not happen for another 10-15 years.

Re:Welp, that's it

[daveime]

Centurion: What's this, then? "Romanes eunt domus"? People called Romanes, they go, the house?
Brian: It says, "Romans go home. "
Centurion: No it doesn't ! What's the latin for "Roman"? Come on, come on !
Brian: Er, "Romanus" !
Centurion: Vocative plural of "Romanus" is?
Brian: Er, er, "Romani" !
Centurion: [Writes "Romani" over Brian's graffiti] "Eunt"? What is "eunt"? Conjugate the verb, "to go" !
Brian: Er, "Ire". Er, "eo", "is", "it", "imus", "itis", "eunt".
Centurion: So, "eunt" is...?
Brian: Third person plural present indicative, "they go".
Centurion: But, "Romans, go home" is an order. So you must use...?
[He twists Brian's ear]
Brian: Aaagh ! The imperative !
Centurion: Which is...?
Brian: Aaaagh ! Er, er, "i" !
Centurion: How many Romans?
Brian: Aaaaagh ! Plural, plural, er, "ite" !
Centurion: [Writes "ite"] "Domus"? Nominative? "Go home" is motion towards, isn't it?
Brian: Dative !
[the Centurion holds a sword to his throat]
Brian: Aaagh ! Not the dative, not the dative ! Er, er, accusative, "Domum" !
Centurion: But "Domus" takes the locative, which is...?
Brian: Er, "Domum" !
Centurion: [Writes "Domum"] Understand? Now, write it out a hundred times.
Brian: Yes sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir.
Centurion: Hail Caesar ! And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.

Re:Welp, that's it

[RobertM1968]

American (and possibly others) seem to cram the seats closer depending on the shape of the plane where the seats are.

An example is this link: AA 737-800 [seatguru.com] shows that certain seats (like the back 3 rows) have reduced hip and shoulder room (though the stock chart does not show the seating width difference).

I've seen other charts for other planes (that I cannot find right now... found them when I was booking a flight a couple years back... I think for American) which showed two different sizes in Economy.

I was also on another flight (Delta I think?) where certain rows in Economy had only two seats instead of three so that they fit without a reduction in seat size.

I have sat next to these guys.

[sycodon]

Even if they can get their butts between the armrests, the rest of them overflows into the next seat.

They should have required him to buy two seats, since he takes up two seats and twice the gas as a normal person.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[jaymz666]

They should kick the people off who are jerks, to smell, too. Those are even more offensive

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[IdleTime]

Why is he angry?

It's all his own fault! Stop shoving worthless crap into your pie hole, start exercising. If you are fat enough for the airline to have an issue with you, it should tell you all you need to know. Haviung problems fitting your ass into a plane seat? You are too fat, start loosing weight.

Bottoom line, fat asses of the world, it is your own fault for allowing yourself to blow up like a balloon. Nobody was forcing you to eat the shit you have. Take some fucking responsibility for your own fat ass first!

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Courageous]

IIRC, airline regulations require that a passenger be in THEIR seat. If you're sitting next to a morbidly obese person, and they annoy you, just ask them to stay in their space. If they cannot, and it bothers you a lot, call a stewardess and explain that you understand your rights, and wish her to enforce them. At this point, the person who cannot remain in their seat will either be assigned a new one or forced to deplane. If you're fat, and upset by this--suck it up. You did not pay for the space the other passenger is in. THEY did.

C//

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Idiomatick]

Kevin smith is fat but he's not one of those huge guys... He looks to be around 235lbs. That is no where near some of the people that have gotten on the plane I'm sure.

Average weight is over 190 lbs (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/tallbutfat.htm). In places like Mississippi (1/3rd of the population is obese) it is likely near 220.

So throwing him off the plane seems pointed for whatever reason. Were he 350 or 400 then I'd get it.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Idiomatick]

That would be taxing the healthy ... And planes are designed to fit the world's average ... Americans are just particularly fat... Ranging 10~30lbs fatter than other country's averages. It isn't subtle.

BTW! If you need a bigger seat I wouldn't suggest coach, it is meant to be cheap and not comfortable. If you feel your size isn't met then move up a class, I can guarantee you will find a seat that fits you. And YES, this is perfectly fair that you pay more for more space.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[DeadboltX]

This will take quite some time to take off.

Even when there are proper justifications for discrimination, the feel-gooders will still fight for the right for everyone to be treated equally, despite not being equal.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, as recently as 16 months ago he was highly concerned over his weight. I don't know how recent these pictures are, but airline seats are somewhat narrow and it would not surprise me if his girth extended into an extra seat. If this was some schmuck off the street nobody would be talking about it, but because we feel some kind of connection to him everyone is up in arms. Obviously the airline definitely handled it in the wrong way, but he still is a fat fuck.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Frosty Piss]

Even if they can get their butts between the armrests, the rest of them overflows into the next seat.

And that's exactly what Southwest requires. He could certainly have afforded the second ticket. From the LA Times:

Southwest Airlines measures whether a customers too large to fly based on the passenger's ability to lower both armrests while sitting on the plane. If the passenger cannot lower one or both armrests, the carrier typically requires the passenger to purchase an additional seat or make arrangements on other flights that may accommodate for extra space.

So why didn't he?

There is a segment of the hideously obese population that thinks there is nothing wrong with it, and society should accept it. That's fine for the most part, but clearly if a fat guy takes up two seats, the fat guy should pay for two seats. And THIS fat guy can certainly afford it.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Idiomatick]

http://imgur.com/UfBNC.jpg has GOT to be pretty close, he is wearing the same sweater on the plane in question as in that talk.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[leetrout]

He is AT LEAST 325, if not over 350 lbs. Look up some recent pictures of him. At least a size 48 pants.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Courageous]

While I shall assume you are attempting to be humorous, the parlance of the English language allows the use of "their" for the singular gender-neutral possessive.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Tycho]

What about those of us who are tall simply due to genetics? The seats in airplanes don't fit very well when one is 6'7" (2m). Of course, one could say this shouldn't matter, excessive height is not a choice and obesity is often not a choice or a failure of will, and thus both should be considered disabilities. In the US and under the Americans with Disabilities Act, accommodations MUST be offered at no additional charge for those with disabilities at public facilities. Allowing an airline to charge someone extra because the airline has arranged their seats so that 15% of the population cannot not fit into a seat is something that is the airline's problem, not the passengers. This may explain why individuals who cannot fit in one seat on Delta flights are now able to receive an additional seat at no cost.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Dahamma]

I think he's closer to 350. He even says about himself in an interview:

"I'm really, really fat right now. Fattest I've ever been. I broke a toilet. That's how heavy I am. I can't take all the credit — that was an old toilet and a very waterlogged wall — but my size took that toilet down."

Apparently (does anyone RTFA!?) he usually buys two seats when flying SWA, anyway - so he admits it's a problem. In this case he tried to take an earlier flight standby, and they didn't have two seats available. So SWA put him on the next flight that did. I don't see the problem...

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[electrosoccertux]

This will take quite some time to take off.

*snicker*

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Cederic]

but every once in a while I get some asshole who not only reclines it, but slams it back, right on my knees.

I find pushing it back upright, perhaps with the occasional irritated punch, always works.

Maybe it's the look on my face whenever anybody actually turns around to complain..

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[VShael]

So why didn't he?

Well, if you'd read the article (I know, slashdot, why would you read the article?) you'd know that he did buy an additional seat. But when he asked to be flown out on an earlier flight, you go onto standby. And *that* flight only had one spare seat available, so he tried to take it.

So it's not that he thinks he's hideously obese and society should accept it.
Look at his tweets. He's pissed that they waited until he was in the seat, to tell him "sorry, you need the second seat after all"

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[thetoadwarrior]

This shouldn't be modded troll because he's spot on. Obesity is one of the few diseases that is self inflicted and especially for a rich celebrity who will have access to the finest health care, there really isn't much excuse. If he's happy with it then fine but like all freedoms there are responsibilities. It really hacks me off when people cry for their freedoms but once the responsibilities come up they want nothing to do with those.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[WCguru42]

I find pushing it back upright, perhaps with the occasional irritated punch, always works.

Maybe it's the look on my face whenever anybody actually turns around to complain..

I support this 100%. Mastering a proper scowl is a must for minimizing verbal garbage.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Frosty Piss]

Well, if you'd read the article (I know, slashdot, why would you read the article?) you'd know that he did buy an additional seat. But when he asked to be flown out on an earlier flight, you go onto standby. And *that* flight only had one spare seat available, so he tried to take it.

So in fact he *DIDN'T* have a second ticket for the flight he *actually* took. SO WHAT IS HE BITCHING ABOUT?

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[adisakp]

They should kick the people off who are jerks, to smell, too. Those are even more offensive

I agree with you on the smelly people. I was on a flight from Chicago to London and I sat next to a smelly Indian guy who hadn't bathed in months and had curry sweating out of his pores. It was a completely full flight and they couldn't move me. I could barely breathe the whole 9 hours and each breath made me want to puke from the smell. To make things worse, the flight ventilation system wasn't working properly so I couldn't get fresh air. I was leaning over to the other side so much (to get a couple inches further away from his stinkiness) that I actually bruised my side and ribs against the arm rest on the opposite side.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[MikeBabcock]

And the women who wear way too much perfume or hairspray and make my eyes water the entire trip.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Anonymous Coward]

You would've been somewhat right (food industry has a large role), but the rest of what you say just ignores reality. The reality is - A country where people exercise less has much higher obesity rate than other countries. A country that had chosen fast food and high fructose corn syrup is more obese than others, and it is more obese since those choices were made. I have moved to the US 6 years ago. The first thing me and my family noticed is how uber-sweet everything is - everything from bread to meat was sweetened. But - that doesn't mean you can't find less sugar saturated food, it just takes a bit more effort. If genetics are to blame, why is obesity growing so fast in recent decades? Where are genetics when it comes to children diabetes - did new genes appeared in the last 20 years?
Show me an obese North Korean (not from the top echelons of the ruling party), and then go claim that calorie restriction and exercise won't help control weight. Yes, for a modern middle class American it is practically impossible to exercise enough (considering how many calories and carbs he consumes), but this is hardly genetic. You are right, some people react differently to exercise and their metabolism is different. But it is all a matter of degree.

Run 10 miles every day and eat 1500 well balanced calories a day (proteins/fats/carbs) and you will not be obese - guaranteed.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[vadim_t]

Two things.

First, it can't be all genetic. People living in the US aren't native americans for the most part, they came for a large part from Europe, not so long ago. They shouldn't have wildly different genetics, yet you're going to find a lot more fat people in the US than in Europe.

What the US has that is considerably different is the food and the layout of the cities. When I came to the US I was quite amazed at the rather insane serving sizes. An US "normal" sized ice cream is something I simply couldn't finish eating. The idea of a restaurant serving enough food that you'd ask for a box to take it home was completely alien to me before visiting the US. Getting the drinks refilled constantly was another new thing.

Also, in Europe you can, and usually do walk to places. Even if you have a car, there is a small grocery store somewhere nearby you can walk to when you find you don't have enough milk, and not far enough to actually bother getting into the car. In the parts of the US I've been to, however, it seems impossible to do that as the streets aren't made for it.

Second, no matter what kind of metabolism you have, you can't violate the conservation of energy. If you use enough energy, or eat less than you consume, you will HAVE to get slimmer, eventually. Your body can't create additional mass out of nowhere, or produce energy to keep you going out of nothing.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[joocemann]

And the women who wear way too much perfume or hairspray and make my eyes water the entire trip.

And the dialect of some of the southerners is just appalling.

And the way the chinese people talk to each other just sounds annoying and I can't even think when they are talking!

And the old people constantly talking about what they ate just kills me.

And the smell of baby powder on the baby next to me is really gonna ruin my meal.

And the mothers breast feeding babies just grosses me out.

And the midgets being seated with the rest of us is just ridiculous.

And the dreadlocks on that rasta guy is disgusting.

And that kid with a cold is ridiculous and he should not be flying with me!

------------ (that was all sarcasm)

Ever stop to think that someone doesn't like you, either? Maybe they don't always feel the need to tell you why you're bugging them, but I'm sure there are plenty of 'reasons' to be overly sensitive over.

I'm not saying you complained about the kid with a cold, but I would bet people that have been upset about it have taken flights with contagious diseases of their own as well.

Life isn't so shitty if you learn to like it.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[thetoadwarrior]

That crossed my mind but I do believe that is a smaller percentage of the population than people would like to believe.

We didn't go from being a thin nation to one of the fattest by passing on defective genes overnight and having been born in the US and living abroad, it's very apparent that portions are bigger in the US and, along with a nearly allergic reaction to public transportation/walking would lead me to believe in most instances it isn't some sort of disorder.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[grimdawg]

Spoken like a true fatty. If you put as much effort into losing weight as you do making up excuses for your giant arse, you might be better off.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[grimdawg]

I read it plenty, and I read it hard. Each of your points is valid and interesting. Each is also an excuse, trotted out by the fatties of this world trying to tell us that they can't help the way that they are.

Unfortunately your attitude does the bloaters a disservice, too: the more you tell fat people that they can't change the way they are, the more fat they get, the less confident they get, and the less happy they'll get in general. You're part of the problem - by trying to stick up for them you're actually marginalising them more than I am.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[vadim_t]

First, if you read my post, it does not say that it is all genetic. It simply points out that the skinny people in the use are not generally skinny because they are superior.

I don't deny that there may be a genetic component. But that doesn't explain the disparity between the US and Europe, especially when most people living in the US are descendants of Europeans and shouldn't be that different genetically speaking.

For it to be a genetical difference over so little time there would have to be something that consistently selected for the propensity to obesity over so little time. But that seems rather illogical, because with the harsh conditions early Americans had to endure, the propensity to have such an inefficient energy usage as to die of hunger while remaining fat should have been selected against, not for.

Second, The "you can't violate the conservation of energy" argument is stupid. It is only used by the people to simple minded to understand that humans have an anus.

Lack of comprehension here. When speaking of calories in nutrition, it refers to the amount of energy a human body extracts from food. What comes out of your other end isn't included in that measure. For humans, celery has negative calories, because the body expends more energy trying to extract something from it than it ends up receiving. A rabbit probably gains from it, though.

There are exactly 0 people on the planet whose body is balanced via calories eaten vs. calories burned. The argument is simply absurd.

Sure there are. Not every single day of course, but on average. People with a disposition to staying skinny are those whose bodies demand just enough or a bit too little food, and eat that much instead of gorging on it every day. That's what hunger is for.

Can you run forever without stopping? Can you do an infinite number of pull ups? Not likely. When you have tried to do as many pull ups as possible, was it reaching 0% body fat that caused you to stop? not likely. Why? Because calories consumed vs. calories burned isn't even a 1/4 of the story.

No, at a point you "hit the wall", due to exhaustion of glycogen, and buildup of lactic acid.

No, you cannot violate conservation of energy, but you can starve to death while still being obese. Both obese by the absurd BMI standard, or by the 'Holy Crap man, your wider than you are tall' standard.

Please provide examples. Humans can last a long time without food. You could probably go weeks without it. A human couldn't possibly exist that long on stored glucose/glycogen. Glucose is very short term, and glycogen can be exhausted with intensive exercise in a few hours. After that energy has to come from somewhere.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Anonymous Coward]

First - your bread point - Bread is carbs everywhere, but most places it's not sweet, don't confuse carbs with sugars, they are similar, but not the same. Meat is not served with jam like it is in the US in most other places

Now for the rest- I read and understood your post perfectly well. You are shifting the blame from the individual to the food industry and genetics. You are saying that exercise and diet do not always work. To which i say - you are wrong. It takes a lot of effort, but eat less (and balanced) and exercise more - and it'll work. The great food experiment that was conducted here could only succeed because the people are eating fast food and eating out more than they cook at home. Go get some veggies from the grocery store, good lean meat, even add a bit of olive oil - and you get a pretty well balanced dinner (just make sure your steak is under 1 ton).

Small proportion of population stays thin not because they won a genetic lottery, they either exercise, or eat less, or both. If obese people would really count everything that gets into their mouth (consciously or otherwise) most would discover the simple fact - they overeat. Most are simply not aware of the amount of food that makes it's way to their stomach.

Think about it - what is the modern's medicine's most radical cure for morbidly obese? That's right, various techniques of stomach reduction. And they all work with dramatic results. What does this have to do with genetics? Or with the food industry? Make your stomach accept less food, and suddenly you are losing weight...

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[boxwood]

You don't even have to go to North Korea to see the difference. South Koreans and Japanese are generally not as fat as North Americans and Australians. But talk to a Korean or Japanese person living in North America or Australia and they'll tell you that they started gaining weight as soon as the left their home country.

But apparently your DNA magically changes as soon as you move to a new continent.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[vadim_t]

Well, of course such a thing would be unhealthy.

But, the grandparent's claim was that some people would die of hunger while still being fat. There might be somebody somewhere with freak genetics that would result in such a thing, but if it was a common ocurrence I think I'd have heard of it, so I'd like some proof of that it is a more or less frequent ocurrence in cases of starvation.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[grimdawg]

When a sweeping generalisation has exceptions, it's not "simple-minded" to make assumptions with the generalisation at their core - especially when dealing with a topic as emotionally charged as weight.

If a fat person told you they'd tried diet and exercise, which of the following is your response?

a) You feel sympathetic to their cause: it's not their fault! Clearly they're one of those people whose genetics mean they can eat and exercise and remain in an unhealthy state!

OR

b) You feel sympathetic to their cause, but wonder whether they really tried hard. It's tough to stick to a diet and exercise regimen.

If you answered a, you're incredibly naive. I hope you're stuck between 175 kilos of hypothyroidism and 200 kilos of big bones.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[ceoyoyo]

"Exercise is the another myth."

This is ridiculous. You're quite correct that genetic factors and some acquired diseases can predispose you to be fatter or thinner by changing the way your body processes food but it is certainly not a myth that exercising more will cause you to be thinner and exercising less will cause you to be fatter. It is also not a myth that your diet affects your weight. You do not directly burn fat while exercising but you certainly divert calories from fat production when exercising and you do burn fat between exercise sessions to support increased muscle mass, muscle building, repair, etc.

It is not very common for a person who gets a reasonable amount of exercise and eats a reasonable diet to be two-seater obese. That usually requires both genetics AND poor diet and exercise habits. In the majority of cases obesity is a preventable disease.

None of which changes the fact that, if you need two seats and only one is available you should not be allowed to fly, regardless of whether it's your fault you need two seats or not.

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[infinite9]

This shouldn't be modded troll because he's spot on. Obesity is one of the few diseases that is self inflicted and especially for a rich celebrity who will have access to the finest health care, there really isn't much excuse. If he's happy with it then fine but like all freedoms there are responsibilities. It really hacks me off when people cry for their freedoms but once the responsibilities come up they want nothing to do with those.

Obesity is also the last physical characteristic where discrimination is socially acceptable. I agree that many people are overweight because they choose to eat and not exercise. And everyone brings up the fact that some people have physical problems that make it impossible to lose weight. But I frequently see this minimized so that people can continue to not feel bad about making fun of fat people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pcos

As an example, 5% to 10% of all women of child-bearing years (not just obese women) have PCOS. And I know from the experience of my family members that the weight problems don't go away after menopause. Imagine being a 5'6" woman, 100lbs overweight, and eating only 800 calories a day with a brutal exercise campaign (2-3 hours every day at the gym), but still unable to lose weight. Then you go out in public and get made fun of... I mean, people laugh and point. People make fat jokes loud enough for you to hear. Imagine a mom going to the grocery store (alone) to shop for the entire family and having someone look at the full grocery cart and say that if you wouldn't eat all that, maybe you wouldn't be fat.

Sitting next to a huge person on an airplane sucks. But I assure you being fat sucks more. And every one of them, if they could overcome whatever problems they're dealing with, would choose to be thin. The next time you want to make fun of a fat person, why not tell a nigger joke instead?

Re:I have sat next to these guys.

[Overzeetop]

I skimmed the wiki article, and didn't see any direct causation between PCOS and morbid obesity. There is correlation, and those with PCOS may be predisposed to weight gain, but one of the treatments is weight loss through diet and exercise.

I'm technically overweight - 6' tall and 190-195lbs. I have some sympathy for obese people because it really is hard to fight your body's tendency to shift from your "settling point" (mine is about 205lbs - I won't gain more, but it takes effort to drop below 195).

If you're spending 2-3 hours in the gym doing high level aerobic activity, eating 800 calories a day, and still gaining weight, you are a miracle case. Even if you could survive with a Basal metabolic rate half of normal, you'd burn almost 1000 calories a day without exercise. Any good exercise should burn at least 175-200 cal/hour. Just running a 12 minute mile (almost a fast walk) should be good for 500 calories an hour.

I have no doubt that being fat sucks, and it takes a shitload of willpower to drop the weight. I would venture, though, that most people (and by most, I mean greater than 95%) who have weight problems simply lack the willpower to fix it.

Re:That's what you get

[PizzaAnalogyGuy]

Hello Mr. Dear Anonymous Coward,

Your words disgust me. Not only because they are not true, but some people just have big bones.

All the best,
Me

News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters

[TinBromide]

I still think its awesome, but let's keep this next celebrity rivalry off of slashdot. Slashdot didn't cover trump vs o'donnel, and it doesn't cover paris hilton, so while Kevin Smith is a nerd celeb, let's not report on every twitter update in this matter? Mmmkay?

Re:News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters

[Anonymous Coward]

I still think its awesome, but let's keep this next celebrity rivalry off of slashdot. Slashdot didn't cover trump vs o'donnel, and it doesn't cover paris hilton, so while Kevin Smith is a nerd celeb, let's not report on every twitter update in this matter? Mmmkay?

It's an excuse for a massive flamewar between the obese nerds munching on pizza and the excessively skinny nerds sucking down sugar-free caffeine drinks. Anything to take our minds off the fact that it is February 14th again and Natalie Portman still hasn't turned up at our door covered in hot grits and bearing a court order reversing the previous decision and allowing us to communicate with her again.... sigh.....

I think this is probably wrong and demented......

[phantomfive]

........but somehow the only thing I can feel about this is "Yay Southwest!" Hello schadenfreude. I am an asshole.

SWA is aware, dealing w/ it

[horatio]

Southwest Airlines was aware of the situation last night, and is working to remedy it. Nothing to see here, move along rubber neckers. From @SouthwestAir:

I've read the tweets all night from @thatkevinsmith - He'll be getting a call at home from our Customer Relations VP tonight.

So why is this posted as a story on /.?

Re:SWA is aware, dealing w/ it

[TooMuchToDo]

The only reason they're working to resolve it is because of Kevin Smith. If it was a nobody with no platform to mention this from, Southwest would've cared much less.

Re:SWA is aware, dealing w/ it

[GabriellaKat]

Southwest Airlines was aware of the situation last night, and is working to remedy it. Nothing to see here, move along rubber neckers. From @SouthwestAir:

I've read the tweets all night from @thatkevinsmith - He'll be getting a call at home from our Customer Relations VP tonight.

So why is this posted as a story on /.?

Because a lot of /.'er are Kevin Smith fans, and fat? (ducks and prepares to lose her Karma)

Re:SWA is aware, dealing w/ it

[JustNilt]

The only reason they're working to resolve it is because of Kevin Smith. If it was a nobody with no platform to mention this from, Southwest would've cared much less.

Actually, I suspect it's mostly because it's on Twitter that they reacted at all. Random average Joes have had similar responses from other corporations as well. They tend to be scared to death of bad publicity and Twitter especially seems to make them nervous.

Of course, the fact that it's a celebrity, however minor (sorry Kevin; I love your films but ...) on Twitter doesn't exactly hurt.

Re:SWA is aware, dealing w/ it

[mister_playboy]

(ducks and prepares to lose her Karma)

Fishing for a /. Valentine, are we? :)

Know what *really* bugs me?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm about 135 pounds. Why the fuck do I get charged extra if my bag is 55 pounds, when the fat bastard behind me has 150 pounds on me, and his bag is slightly less? Like somebody mentioned above, yes, I DO think they should weigh people before they get on. The nominal reason for this is fuel charges, right? Can I get a discount because I'm not toting my giant bloated belly around?
</rant>

Re:Know what *really* bugs me?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm about 135 pounds.

Did you get a lot of sand kicked in your face at the beach? Is that why you're so angry?

Bruce Lee weighed 135 lbs. Would you kick sand in his face while he was still alive?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_Bruce_Lee%27s_weight

Southwest Airlines "Customer of Size" Q&A

[codeonezero]

According to http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html

It sounds like the determination is made if you can not fit within the confines of a standard seat with the arm rests down on both sides. I wonder if they don't have a test airplane seat you can sit in before hand at the terminal before trying to board or set of measurements you can take at home before buying your ticket/boarding to reduce the potential for embarrassment of being forced off the plane once you try to seat onboard.

From the link above:
"I am a large person and use a seatbelt extension, but I fit in one aircraft seat. Do I have to purchase two seats? Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. We use the ability to lower the armrests as the gauge, as the armrests are truly the definitive boundary between each seat."

Another interesting tidibt from the link:
Are all overweight people subject to the policy?
Many Americans are "overweight" or "clinically obese." A number of overweight or obese people occupy only one seat. In fact, many Customers may use a seatbelt extension but occupy only one seat, and these Customers would not be asked to reserve a second seat. If a Customer cannot lower the armrest (and is unable to comfortably travel with it in the down position), he/she is required to pay for the additional seat occupied. Again, we will offer a refund if the flight does not oversell.

Re:Southwest Airlines "Customer of Size" Q&A

[duguk]

Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. We use the ability to lower the armrests as the gauge, as the armrests are truly the definitive boundary between each seat.

From: TFA Link
"why wait til my bag is up, and I'm seated WITH ARM RESTS DOWN. In front of a packed plane with a bunch of folks who'd already I.d.ed me as 'Silent Bob,"

Irrelevant of all the other slashdot members complaining that "being fat is disgusting", the fact remains that Southwest Airlines went against their OWN policies, and they didn't go about this in the right way at all. If he was already seated comfortably, wasn't blocking the aisle and no other customers complained, then what the hell is their problem?!

Just measure before boarding.

[formfeed]

New rule: "If your butt doesn't fit in this box, you will have to go first class or buy two tickets."

Here's what really happened ...

[tomhudson]

Here's what really happened.

The pilot, a registered Republican, woke up from his nap (pilots cat-nap as much as they can because of the new budget-saving schedules), saw the guy, and mistook him for Michael Moore.

Yuh Huh

[Greyfox]

As someone who's flown several times with some fat fuck overlapping into the seat I paid for, I really wish they'd do that more often.

If you take up two seats, pay for two seats. And not one here and one 4 aisles back.

Re:Yuh Huh

[StormyWeather]

I wish I could mod you up. I was squished against a window by some fat guy on my way into Dallas on southwest, and of course it had all kinds of storm delays. The guy was sweaty, smelly, and not at all concerned about suffocating me. I could have only wished the guy was as fat as Smith. This guy barely fit in his seat belt with an extra seat belt to extend it.

 

Re:Yuh Huh

[Cederic]

This is what elbows are for. You'd be amazed how much smaller some people become after the eighth 'Sorry, was that you?'

Re:Yuh Huh

[Anonymous Coward]

I once boarded a multi-hour flight only to find that I was ticketed as the middle seat amid several rows of men travelling together to a weight lifting competition. These guys could put the armrests down, but physically couldn't put their arms down at their sides. I had elbows in my face the whole way. I tried starting a fight but they wouldn't take me seriously.

And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas

[melted]

Yet airlines want me to pay a full fare. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets. Otherwise, just reduce the passenger density and charge everyone the same.

Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas

[pipedwho]

Or just charge by weight.

Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas

[Mr2001]

If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets.

Well, what it comes down to is they can only sell whole seats. Your 6 year old might only need half a seat, but that still means he's taking up the whole seat - they can't sell the other half seat to someone else. A fat guy might prefer to buy 1.5 seats, but that isn't an option: he has to buy 2 seats, and that second seat is being taken away from another paying customer.

On the other hand, there's a possible solution: seat the kid who isn't using half of his seat next to the fat guy who needs an extra half seat. But in order to accurately bill everyone for the fractional seats they use, the airline would have to know everyone's measurements ahead of time (not just weight, because bulk is what really matters).

Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas

[pchan-]

You can't have it both ways. If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets.

It's simple: Airlines don't sell distance per gas consumed. They sell seats. People are not packages. You can't fly more of them in a plane if they weight less in a linear manner. One seat is the minimum allocation unit you can buy. Whether you use the whole seat just put your purse on it is not their business. You're paying for it if you're going to use it. If you're so fat that you cannot fit into the single smallest allocation unit they provide, you will have to purchase two of them (or upgrade to a higher class with bigger seats).

Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas

[Anonymous Coward]

What if the fat bastard tries to eat your kid?

Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas

[BitterOak]

What if the fat bastard tries to eat your kid?

Then he would have to pay extra on the food portion of his ticket. And your kid would get a corresponding discount.

Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas

[mjwx]

It's simple: Airlines don't sell distance per gas consumed. They sell seats.

Actually they sell freight space and the meat they transport is the least profitable as it requires to be heated and fed in a pressurised cabin (it also complains) where as most other freight can happily sit in an unpressurised hold.

The reason airlines in the US started charging for baggage is to dissuade you from bringing more of it (you should have figured this part out already). Now most people assume that this is to cut down on weight, wrong. Airlines can sell the space they freed up to logistics companies who want to move small sized parcels to other parts of the country or world rapidly. This appears cheaper but has a much higher rate of return per KG and is more steady and less problematic then the meat transportation business.

Budget Airlines like Tiger, Air Asia and Ryan Air make all of their money on freight, the passenger service is only expected to break even.

Good for southwest

[Degro]

As much as I am a fan of Kevin Smith and take pride in the fact that he's from my home state of NJ, I have to side with Southwest on this one. I've had the horrible experience of being seated next to and between very fat people several times and it just isn't fair. They should have paid for part of my ticket each time. Flights are cramped uncomfortable experiences as it is, but to have some bloated wheezing corpse pouring over the arm rest into my seat really crosses the line socially.

The Better Question??

[markass530]

Why is he not flying first class on a different airline?

Re:awesome!

[nomadic]

I think the key word here is obese, usually defined as a BMI over 30 kg/m^2, i.e. weight divided by height squared. You might not enjoy sitting next to a person with a BMI around say 28 kg/m^2, but they'll basically remain inside their seat. Anyone whose BMI exceeds 30 will spill over into your seat, so removing them will make the crowded flight much more pleasant.

BMI isn't just useless, it's worse than useless. Not only does more muscle mass than usual completely skew the results, but being taller than average does as well.

have you seen him lately?

[YesIAmAScript]

That pic is from 2007.

Have you seen him lately?

http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/1/2008/11/Rogen_Kevin_Fat_Guys.flv.jpg

Slashdotted - here's the text

[Mr2001]

Here's the text:

Not So Silent Bob
Sun, 02/14/2010 - 14:57 — Christi Day

Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you. We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines.

As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well.

Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.

You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.

Re:Slashdotted - here's the text

[Brian Gordon]

Well that pretty much deflates the whole issue. Plus Southwest's policy is pretty generous, and giving him $100 because he couldn't get a seat on standby was totally unnecessary.

I was skeptical about the headline anyway. If you can't be accommodated safely due to your size, then you cannot fly. There's no outrage fuel here.

Re:Slashdotted - here's the text

[glodime]

Kevin Smith wrote:

Dear Fucktarded PR-Challenged Fatty-Haters at @SouthwestAir: Your "apology" blog is insulting, redacted bullshit. FULL details in two hours.

According to TFA Kevin Smith claimed to be sitting in the seat with the armrests down before he was asked to leave the plane. He also claimed to have purchased only one ticket when flying the first leg of his trip. He was kicked off on his return leg.

The Southwest PR people seem to be stretching the truth in their side of the story. I think that the Southwest policy to require the purchase of two tickets when some one cannot fit between the armrests of one seat is generally a good one. However, I think the pilot was overzealous in enforcing the policy. Southwest has not apologized for the mistake they actually made. They merely said, "we're sorry that you don't like our policy." They need to say "we're sorry that we misapplied our policy," in this instance.

Re:Slashdotted - here's the text

[twiddlingbits]

Mr Smith is acting like an asshole. That sort of language isn't going to win him any sympathy from SWA even if they WERE wrong.

Re:Slashdotted - here's the text

[Zemran]

Boycott? I am more likely to fly with them now I realise that I am less likely to have someone like him squeezed into the seat next to me.

Re:Slashdotted - here's the text

[Jahf]

I've seen this policy applied before by Continental. A kid of about 17 years old was forced to buy a 2nd ticket. Or rather was forced to call the mother of his friend who had purchased his tickets for him to make her buy another ticket. He told me this as the 2 of us were sitting in the 3-seat row of the plane as his way of letting me know I wouldn't have to worry about someone taking the middle seat because he paid for it. He was quite embarrassed.

I personally am a bigger dude, but not that big, so I was relieved we were going to have some extra space.

Then Continental seated a deadheading pilot from another airline in that empty seat. For free. And the kid next to him was able, barely, to lower the arm rest.

The kid was too embarrassed to speak up for himself. So I mentioned it to both the pilot as well as the Continental flight attendant for our section. The pilot's reaction? "I dunno, not my call". The stewardess? Pretty much no response at all.

I've seen a similar case as well where the person bought 2 seats and someone on standby was given their seat. In that case the airline refunded their money and let the person on standby take the seat. Which means the airline wasn't caring at all about the safety of anyone, they just wanted their cash.

The airline policies are invoked willy-nilly at THEIR convenience without a care for the injury caused. The policies would be understandable if they were enforced justly and equally, but they do not. If you buy 2 seats then the flight attendants should not be able to reassign you. I could name plenty of other policies that get applied unfairly too, like luggage sizes, after 13 years of business travel ... but they would get so mind-numbing that it's just not worth it.

Re:That's what you get

[trapnest]

some people just have big bones.

And then some people are just fat.

Re:FFS!

[dadelbunts]

Just work out. Then you will fit into the seats.

Re:I think this is probably wrong and demented....

[Hognoxious]

captain in a plane is as much a captain as one on a boat. If he says you're not welcome on board, you're out.

We'll give some seats to the chinks and the niggers, but we don't want the Irish.

In simple terms: you're full of shit.

Re:If he were fat

[ModernGeek]

You have to be let on the plane to get kicked off.

Dimensional Weight

[Cliff Stoll]

Most air freight shippers use dimensional weight to charge extra on high volume/low mass items. Charging by weight alone won't recover the costs of shipping lightweight items. For example, a pound of popped popcorn will cost more to ship than a pound of popcorn kernels.

Typically, a shipper assumes that typical freight has a nominal density of about 0.2 gm/cm^3 ... packages with a lower density than this will be charged more.

Of course, humans have a density of about 1gm/cm^3, so we wouldn't be charged extra, should we decide to be shipped airfreight.

Because they're spilling over into my seat

[Rix]

The seat I, not they, paid for.

Yes, it's not right to sneer at people for being fat, whether it's their fault or not. It's perfectly all right to sneer at someone for stealing someone else's seat.

If you need two (or three...) seats buy them. Don't steal from your neighbours.

Kevin Smith is not the problem.

[jeko]

Airlines have overcrammed more seats into each plane than the original designers would have believed possible. When people complain, they respond with "You're freakishly tall," or "You're mbidly obese," when the real answer is "The airlines are so greedy they're cramming so many people into their cargo hold it would make a slave trader of old boggle."

My 5'2", 100lb mother-in-law complains that they've made the seats too small to be comfortable, and she's been flying for 50 years. Do we really think the problem is Kevin Smith is too husky?

How about this for an answer? Let's make airline seats the same size and legroom as movie theater seats and see if the problem goes away.

Re:Kevin Smith is not the problem.

[Reality Master 101]

How about this for an answer? Let's make airline seats the same size and legroom as movie theater seats and see if the problem goes away.

You already have this option. It's called first class.

People have chosen this world of crammed airlines, because people will choose the airline that's $1 cheaper than the other guy. Very few people use any other factor as a consideration. They want cheap flights, and that's exactly what they have.

Re:Kevin Smith is not the problem.

[gatkinso]

I am 6'1" and weigh 195 pounds, and I call bullshit on that claim.

I have almost 2 million miles on United, 300K on American, and a bunch on several others.

Because of my status I rarely fly coach anymore, but I still get stuck in the goat locker when there is no other choice, and while it is by far from spacious it is not that bad.

Re:Kevin Smith is not the problem.

[barzok]

Southwest only has Coach class.

Re:Kevin Smith is not the problem.

[XantheKnight]

Hear fricking hear. Thank you for posting this. I am horrified that this thread has turned into a fat-hating fest instead of a reasoned discussion of all the issues here. Leaving aside the really controversial issue of whether most people's weight is genetically determined and thus "their fault", and even whether your size should incur a negative moral judgment from those around you, for some illogical reason (maybe if you guys had universal medicare I would understand, but, you really don't!) , there has been a surprising dearth of critical thought in this threat regarding just how much airlines "policies" are motivated by profit riding on the acceptability of fat phobia than this nebulous "safety" concern. Have people seen the width of an airplane aisle lately?? I'm a 5'8" female of 140 pounds and I can barely pass through those things, let alone when one of the drink/food carts is completely blocking one. I'd just love to see the fricking pandemonium if the shit hit the fan while those carts were blocking both aisles (as they are 50% of the time) and people were trying to get out. Bullshit this policy is motivated by safety concerns! Bullshit! It's motivated by money!! It's just that fat phobia is one of the last remaining "acceptable" discriminations allowed in North America and they want their piece of it.

I vaguely recall a thread on Slashdot the other day where we discussed the pricing of eBooks. A lot of grief was being aired regarding the "unfair" $15 price point for eBooks. A lot of people thought it was B.S. that despite lower production costs for an eBook version, the print version and the eBook version were similarly priced. A few industry insiders had to remind us of the cardinal rule of capitalism: Everything is worth what its buyer will pay. So, if we force fat people to pay double for an airline seat, and give them no other choice, they're going to pay it, aren't they? The airlines may couch this policy in "safety" or what-not, but that is crap. Must we be reminded yet again that this is really about money?

If it's really about fuel costs, then every passenger would pay for their tickets BY WEIGHT. Including baggage. Airlines could easily provide a fixed # of smaller seats per plane for children, and larger seats for fat people. Airlines are very, very good at knowing the average demographics of their passengers. They could easily, easily do this, and in fact provide *added* safety for children and fat people by doing so. But they don't. Why would they, after all, when parents will pay full price for their half-sized children, and fat people will pay double? If you owned the airlines, would you change such a profitable policy? No way.

Re:Kevin Smith is not the problem.

[arose]

You're height is not in your legs, good for you. I'm 6'3" and half of the time it's not that the guy in front of my would crush into my knees, it's that he would never get anywhere in the first place.

Customer of Size?

[Comboman]

"Customer of Size"? Is that like "People of Color"? Has political correctness come so far that you can't even call someone a fatass any more? I'm with Southwest on this one. Brilliant director or not, if I had to spend an "Evening with Kevin Smith" squished up against him in a coach-class seat, I would not be happy and would be demanding my ticket price back. They tried to accommodate his special request to fly early and couldn't. He should graciously accept their apology (it's more than he would have gotten from me).

Re:Customer of Size?

[Rich0]

At work they had a big article about "differently abled persons" recently. I just don't get it? How is it derogatory to call somebody disabled? Am I "differently abled" if I can juggle?

There is no need to use slurs like "fatass" or whatever. You can just call them overweight, or oversized - kind of like luggage. It is hardly unusual to charge a different rate when shipping a piano when compared to shipping a book. Will amazon.com start a "products of size" shipping policy soon?

Re:Customer of Size?

[laughingcoyote]

I've got to agree here, even though I'm not at all a fan of Southwest after my own recent experiences with them. First off, there's no guarantees when you're flying standby that you'll get any seats. No room really to complain if you don't. In this guy's case, however, he needs two seats. I'm entirely with that, and it applies in this case-he takes up both the space and the weight of at least two passengers.

If you are severely obese, there will be certain physical limitations as to what you can do. If you would prefer not to have those limitations, your option is to lose the weight. Even those with legitimate medical conditions can do so under a doctor's supervision, and generally the "medical condition" is "Eats too much, exercises too little".

It is of course one's decision whether to continue to overeat and not exercise, but it is then one's responsibility to live with the consequences of that decision. If you don't want the limitations that come with being fat, get to work on losing the weight. If you'd rather not, then yes, you need to buy two seats if that's what it takes to accommodate you. I wish more places would work up the nerve to plainly state that you need to buy as many seats as you overflow into.

Re:Customer of Size?

[palinurus]

insightful, really?

you certainly can call someone a "fatass". there is no law against it. you can call someone anything you want, but in return someone might call you an "asshole", and they might be right.

is there a line between political correctness and politeness? or do you think we need to get rid of that too?

and fwiw, I agree, smith wasn't exactly forthcoming with the details of the case (he was switching flights, only single seat available, etc) and SW has acquitted themselves pretty well from a PR perspective. i think the man just got a little stung by a humiliating experience and wanted to rant a little.

Re:Customer of Size?

[shadwstalkr]

First it's just plain politeness and good business to avoid calling your customers fat, even if they are.

Second, it's not just fat people. A large linebacker would probably also have trouble fitting in one seat.

Re:Customer of Size?

[a whoabot]

I saw a job offer that said, in the small print, something along the lines of: "We are committed in our hiring and operating practises not to discriminate on the basis of gender, religion, race, ethnicity, or ability."

We can see what they wanted to say: They wanted to say "disability" (which itself would read strangely except that by now it has taken on a particular meaning in these situations which is broadly recognised), but because that word is not politically correct they were brought into saying something which reads as if it were patently absurd: That they actually don't take the abilities of the applicants into consideration when they hire. So...what, they cut open a bird and look at the entrails for divine signs?

Much like how every university is now fully committed to diversity, which reads strange every time I see some such statement on the matter.

Re:Customer of Size?

[Concerned Onlooker]

"and does this mean fat people have a larger carbon footprint???"

No. Just deeper.

Re:Customer of Size?

[XantheKnight]

Ugh. The glib "just lose the weight" pseudo-argument. Yeah sure, all fat people are fat by choice, and, with a little elbow grease, could lose weight and be normal like everyone else. Goodness, and you probably call yourself a scientist. What's next in your view: black people can just scrub a little harder and get white? Oh wait, but being fat is a choice, right? Like being gay? Well a few rounds of jogging make some people lose some weight, so it must be the same for everyone. I know because I saw it on The Biggest Loser. Uh oh, look where this road is leading! Unscientific land!

Here's a little thought experiment: what if the average weight of an American citizen was, say, 250 pounds, but Southwest airlines decided to make its seats suitable (safety-wise) and comfortable for passengers with an average weight of 140 pounds. That way, they can shove 50% more seats into the same sized plane and thus make more profit. When a 250 pound passenger boards the plane, after having paid their money for their ticket, like everyone else, they are confronted publicly by an air hostess, who tells them that because of safety concerns, as per the airline's policy, they have two choices: (1) get off the plane and cancel their trip (probably thus losing money for hotels, rentals, perhaps losing their job or ruining their family's holiday), or (2) pay double for another seat. What choice would you make? What choice really IS there, assuming you can afford the second seat??

It is reasonably foreseeable that many North American passengers will be of a size that is too large for the average plane seat. Does this mean those people must pay for two seats? Or, does it mean that airlines should make a few extra-large sized seats? Or has the US become a nation where it's OK to assume everyone looks the same, and one where those who deviate from the norm (in many cases through no fault of their own) should pay an extra price to access the same services?

This crap would never go down in Canada. Thank God we have Human Rights legislation to prevent others from profiting from discriminatory practices.

Re:Customer of Size?

[aussie_a]

Fat and overweight both have similar derogatory connotations

Overweight is a medical term. As is obese. Overweight people have a BMI between 26 - 30 while obese people have a BMI 31 and higher.

I use to be obese, I am now overweight.

If people find these terms offensive, stiff-shit. How about instead of changing how we talk to better suit them, they change their appearance to better suit their own sensibilities. It would be like calling people who need glasses (such as myself) "sight-challenged" instead of "long-sighted" or "near-sighted"

Although I'm sure the suits in legal and public relations will take issue with actually telling the truth.

Re:Customer of Size?

[Ihlosi]

Has political correctness come so far that you can't even call someone a fatass any more?

If you're a professional bodybuilder, you might be a customer of size, but not a fatass.

Re:Customer of Size?

[drsquare]

Yeah sure, all fat people are fat by choice, and, with a little elbow grease, could lose weight and be normal like everyone else. Goodness, and you probably call yourself a scientist. What's next in your view: black people can just scrub a little harder and get white? Oh wait, but being fat is a choice, right? Like being gay?

You're saying that a hundred pounds of excess blubber deposited through years of over-eating is equivalent to being born with a different skin colour? Now I've heard everything...

Seriously, stop making excuses for people's poor lifestyle choices. I'm with Southwest on this one.

It is reasonably foreseeable that many North American passengers will be of a size that is too large for the average plane seat. Does this mean those people must pay for two seats? Or, does it mean that airlines should make a few extra-large sized seats? Or has the US become a nation where it's OK to assume everyone looks the same, and one where those who deviate from the norm (in many cases through no fault of their own) should pay an extra price to access the same services?

A fat person is not accessing the same services, they're taking up two seats and therefore twice the services. Why should healthy people be crushed or financially penalised because some fat bastard won't put down the cake? Maybe it's foreseeable that Americans will just have to pay more to fly than the rest of the world.

This crap would never go down in Canada. Thank God we have Human Rights legislation to prevent others from profiting from discriminatory practices.

Thank God I don't live in Canada, so don't have to pay extra so some salad-dodger can get an extra seat for free. For the record, I'm overweight but fit in plane seats just fine. This Kevin Smith fellow must be a real land whale.

Re:Customer of Size?

[MozeeToby]

Ugh. The glib "just lose the weight" pseudo-argument. Yeah sure, all fat people are fat by choice, and, with a little elbow grease, could lose weight and be normal like everyone else.

Ah, the glib "all fat people are fat because of hormonal imbalance" pseudo-argument. Despite that fact that 2/3rds of adults in the US are overweight and the kind of hormone imbalances that cause massive weight gain occur in less than 2% of the population.

Honestly, it isn't that hard for 98% of people to lose weight, eat less and, optionally, excersise more. And yes, that means writing down what you eat so you can actually track it. Yes, that means weighing or measuring your food before you cook it so you know how much there is. Yes, that means sticking with it over the course of atleast several months. In my opinion, diligently keeping a food diary is the only way to consistently lose weight. If you're honest about filling it out and you have the will power to keep the calorie count at or below your target, it's almost impossible not to lose weight.

Re:He's a "double seater"...

[Joce640k]

He normally buys double seats due to his width.

This time he was on standby and there was no double seat for him. To prevent the person next to him from suffering the overflow they made him take the next flight and gave him $100 for his trouble.

He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.

Too Small

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course its ok if the airlines have cut back both the width of the seats and the space between the rows in order to pack in more cattle. Thats ok, despite the fact that over and beyond the obesity problem people in general are getting taller and heavier. Sure, sell by the seat or sell passage by the pound, but dont cut back on the space and then punish the people who were dumb enough to fly them in the first place.

Re:That's what you get

[Pinky's Brain]

Maybe you are remembering him from his clerks 1/2 days? A quick search turned up this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzvlLyHV4s0

That's quite obese ...

Let us cut though all this BS, what was Kevin's...

[yoshi_mon]

What was Kevin's weight/height? I mean I've seen a lot of subjective options here as to what it's like to fly next to someone who is spilling over into your seat. How it's unfair that a 5 year old has to pay a full fair because they are taking up a full seat but weigh next to nothing compared to an adult. Blah blah blah.

Look, during my real hardcore WoW days was at least 250 lbs. and I stand 6' tall. I've leaned up to 190 lbs. but you know I still fill those airline seats up pretty damn much the same way. (For those who don't understand how the male body stores it's fat, it is not just right to our guts. Look at any obese persons face and think about it.) And I'm quite sure I could have easily packed on another 50 lbs. and not made that much a difference in my presence to the people next to me from 250 -> to 300 at 6'.

My point is that I've yet to see the real reason that Kevin, given that he freaking eventually flew the same airliner to his destination, was booted from the flight in question. I suspect that it had nothing to do with his weight but lets clear that up so that we can get down to what really happened.

Re:Standby?

[BronsCon]

He had a ticket for a later flight and was on standby for an earlier one.

Seat packing

[AlpineR]

Charge a fixed price for the amount of volume occupied by the passenger

I'm having terrible visions of ticket agents playing Tetris to figure out whether or not a plane is overbooked. One of them calls out over the airport public address system: "Is there a tall skinny person who wants to fly to Dallas? I need a tall skinny person!"

Re:Standby?

[CohibaVancouver]

What I wonder is why the heck KS would be flying standby

'Standby' used to mean a cheap ticket bought last minute by a college kid with a backpack.

It doesn't mean that anymore. Let's imagine you're a millionaire like presumably KS is. You're booked on a 1pm flight, then get to the airport early and find out there's an 11am flight, so you try to get on that one instead. You're booked on the 1pm and on 'standby' for the 11am flight.

Safety

[Anonymous Coward]

I was squished against a window by some fat guy on my way into Dallas on southwest

Immediately request an aisle seat, this is a safety issue.

The last thing you need is to be crawling over some fat guy should you be required to deplane quickly.

Re:That's what you get

[Zemran]

Inside every fat person there is a thin person and a lot of chocolate...

Big boned is just another way of saying 'it isn't my fault I eat too much'. There is no such thing in reality. If you start overeating at an early enough age you will develope a larger frame to suit your fat body.

Most of us have watched the fatty squeezing down the aisle and dreaded the idea of them sitting next to us. Why should I have to put up with someone like him taking up my space on an already cramped airline seat?

Re:Obesity is not always a choice.

[Rakshasa Taisab]

There is a condition known as "hypothyroidism". There are many causes; in my case it was an auto-immune disease known as "Grave's Disease". It caused my body to attack my own thyroid gland - a gland in the neck that secretes thyroid hormone, which controls most of a person's metabolism.

Yes, it seems the US has had a pandemic of 'hypothyroidism' the last few decades. I wonder if it is contagious.

Re:He's a "double seater"...

[WasII]

He buys two seats because he hates people and doesn't want to have anyone sit next to him and if you actually read his twitter, you would find out that he can fasten the belt with no extension and sit with the arm rest done.. Ass..

Re:He's a "double seater"...

[TrekkieGod]

He normally buys double seats due to his width.

This time he was on standby and there was no double seat for him. To prevent the person next to him from suffering the overflow they made him take the next flight and gave him $100 for his trouble.

He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.

He's not complaining about the fact that the rules exist. Obviously he didn't mind, since he consistently buys double seats. He's complaining that they let him board the plane and THEN kicked him out. They could have just not seated him and it would be fine.

I still get stuck in the goat locker

[jeko]

"it is not that bad."

And yet you're calling it the Goat Locker?

"It was Hell. It was a little warm."

Pick one. Either it's a goat locker, or it's not that bad. Which is it?

Re:Obesity is not always a choice.

[aXis100]

Metabolic condition or not, the fat does not apppear out of thin air. You still have to have bring your hand to your mouth and consume those calories. It's like an asthmatic complaining of shortness of breath after smoking.

I realise however that in order to control your weight you may end up being hungry all of the time though, and that just plain sucks.

Re:Obesity is not always a choice.

[quenda]

I weigh about 260lbs now. I eat sensibly, get exercise, but none of it does any good at reducing my fat.

Obviously you are not eating sensibly for your condition. Slow metabolism by itself will not make you fat. You have to be eating as if you still had a faster metabolism.
Adjusting eating habits is difficult, which is why so many of us get larger in middle age. Each snack or meal is a choice.

Re:That's what you get

[Barsteward]

Inside every fat person there is a thin person ...

Only one??

Couchslug?

[WiiVault]

Coming from a guy named couchslug...

Swedish Body Builders Suck!

[LostMyBeaver]

Flying on KLM (the Dutch national airline) which has the narrowest seats I've ever seen on any plane from Amsterdam to Singapore, I was placed in between two Swedish body builders. This was a 20 hour flight! At the time, I wasn't very thin, at 5'10", 170lbs, but I wasn't overly large either.

I asked the two gentlemen if they'd be kind enough to sit beside one another so I could either have the aisle or the window, using the excuse that "I don't like flying much and would appreciate sleeping as much of the flight as possible, and their conversation would hinder that." They told me, "Well, you see, we don't fit too well sitting side by side in coach."

So they intentionally sat with a seat in-between them knowing perfectly well that they were almost guaranteed to have someone smaller in-between them who's seat they can overflow into. And yet, this didn't appear to matter.

Well, I survived barely... however on the way back, there was an old Dutch married couple who apparently had the same idea... and they were fat. Their excuse was "Well dear, we've been married so long and it's nice to meet new people to talk to". I nearly died, not only did they want to have their fat asses overflowing into my seat, but they wanted to keep me awake too!

This has become such a problem that now, when I'm traveling on a family trip and my sister is going too, I actually wait to find out which plane she's flying on so I can book another flight. She's 5' tall and weighs in a little over 300lbs (by a little, I mean she's not 400lbs yet). I feel sorry for her kids who are also becoming "shapely" as they are growing up because noone should be forced to sit still in one place with their seats overflowed on by another person.

I think airlines should start advertising comfort features in their coach class like "We have arm rests on EVERY seat so noone else's ass can be in yours!", or "We have seats which are REALLY REALLY uncomfortable for large people", or "We only serve vegetables and water on our flights". I would actually fly more often then.

Re:Obesity is not always a choice.

[Endo13]

Cool anecdote. Guess what - I've got one too.

My mom had Graves as well. They completely killed her thyroid. And you know what? She's in better physical shape than I am. Since that's happened to her, she's been at most 30 pounds overweight, before she decides she wants to get it back where it needs to be. Right now, she's maybe 5 over her minimum healthy weight.

End result - your weight is ALWAYS a choice. You can blame it on medical problems, genetics, or anything else you want. But in the end, it still boils down to a personal lack of discipline.

perfect procedures, imperfect systems

[mangodhamma]

Kevin is not the victim of sizism, he - and you and I - are victims of a common feature of modern life: perfect procedures, imperfect systems. Issues of how many seats can an airline cram into a cabin and America's eating habits aside, the Southwest policy sounds pretty reasonable. Oversize passengers buy a second seat and get a refund if the plane isn't full. So how does it happen that Kevin get's so far along the chain of events that it causes everyone involved a lot of unnecessary pain and embarrassment? The captain who threw Kevin off the plane was enforcing a procedure. Nobody was taking any responsibility for the system. What happened when Kev bought his ticket? Did a screen come up - before the plug in your credit card number screen - warning Kev that if you're over a certain weight you have to buy two seats? What happened when Kev arrived at the check in counter? Are the check in staff blind? How hard is it to notice that man or woman is 'of size' and won't fit into a seat my eleven year old daughter can barely squeeze into (she's big for her age)? Isn't there a role here for the security staff? It IS a safety issue. Plane skids off the runway a large passenger will have difficulty getting down that rabbit trail called an aisle. Kevin's embarrassment, and the discomfort of his seatmates, could have been avoided at any of several steps along the way. But it wasn't, because everyone is responsible for a procedure, but no one is responsible for the system.

Re:That's what you get

[gabba_gabba_hey]

Sooo...

Your statement is that all skinny people wear a shit ton of perfume? Where does that even come from? Hmm...

You sound fat.

Re:That's what you get

[XCondE]

You seem to want First Class elbow room at steerage prices.

No, fatso. I want to fly without your flab invading my seat - thank you very much.

Re:That's what you get

[Shrike82]

You seem to want First Class elbow room at steerage prices. For that you can't blame fat folks, you can blame your cheapness or poorness.

No, we can blame the really fat guy encroaching onto our seat. The seat that we paid for. The seat that would be fine if it weren't for the guy next to us being really overweight. Airline seats are a certain size. In economy they're pretty small because fares are so damn cheap. Why the hell should I have to pay for a first class seat just to get the elbow room I deserve in economy? This isn't about being poor or being cheap, it's about someone being too fucking big to fit in an economy seat. Let the fat guy spend the cash on a bigger seat in first class. How dare you say it's my responsibility to pay extra cash to accomodate the obesity of someone else. If anyone is being too cheap/poor in this situation it's the fat guy who won't spring for the extra seat that he needs, or one larger seat in a higher class.

Re:He buys two tickets to not sit next to people

[Shivantrill]

He always buys two tickets so he doesn't have to sit next to someone, not because of his size. He was able to put both armrests down and buckle his seatbelt without an extender. If you listen to his podcast (named Smodcast), you will get the entire story. He was seated and buckling in when they removed him. He had been recognized by several people around him. There was a guy fatter than him a few rows back that they did not remove. Then when he got on the next flight, an overweight woman sat in the aisle seat of his row. He had bought two tickets so he was near the window. They took this woman aside and told her that next time she should consider buying two tickets. That was just rude and unnecessary. Unless they have a clear guideline, "you must be able to fit between these two bars while seated", and they implement it consistently, he has every right to complain. He isn't that big. Yeah he says he is fat. That's his self-image, and he is willing to own that and be responsible for it. The way the situation was handled was more of the issue. Some people really are not in control of their weight. Many diseases can cause you to gain body mass. Also many medications will do that as well. My mother was on steroids for her lung disease and that made her balloon out. Once she went off the steroids she went back to her normal size. I try not to judge people or label them. This world would be a much better place if people were less judgmental and more compassionate.

Re:Obesity is not always a choice.

[Mr_Silver]

There is a condition known as "hypothyroidism". There are many causes; in my case it was an auto-immune disease known as "Grave's Disease". It caused my body to attack my own thyroid gland - a gland in the neck that secretes thyroid hormone, which controls most of a person's metabolism. The reaction from the thyroid is to over-produce thyroid hormone, sending your metabolism into overdrive.

You raise an extremely valid point and whilst I sympathise greatly with your medically diagnosed problem, you need to look at the figures to understand why people are saying what they do

According to wikipedia about 3% of the population suffer "hypothyroidism".

Yet, according to the CDC:

In 2008, only one state (Colorado) had a prevalence of obesity less than 20%. Thirty-two states had a prevalence equal to or greater than 25%; six of these states (Alabama, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia) had a prevalence of obesity equal to or greater than 30%.

Once you take the 3% out of those numbers, the sad fact is that too many people just eat too much and exercise too little.

Re:I think this is probably wrong and demented....

[Magnus Pym]

Southwest: the airline whose fanboys make those of Apple seem like intelligent, rational adults.