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Apple Removes Wi-Fi Finders From App Store

jasonbrown writes "Apple on Thursday began removing another category of apps from its iPhone App Store. This time, it's not porn, it's Wi-Fi. Apple removed several Wi-Fi apps commonly referred to as stumblers, or apps that seek out available Wi-Fi networks near your location. According to a story on Cult of Mac, apps removed by Apple include WiFi-Where, WiFiFoFum, and yFy Network Finder."

461 comments

  1. walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    for the win.

    if you wanted options, you would have gone android... fucksticks.

    1. Re:walled garden by node+3 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      for the win.

      if you wanted options, you would have gone android... fucksticks.

      iPhone has more software than Android, hence more options.

      What you really mean is if we wanted specific options (those that aren't available for iPhone, but are for Android), we'd have gone Android. So what it really comes down to is whether one really wants (in this case) a WiFi finder. I certainly won't miss such apps. But you're right, if I did, Android might be a better option.

    2. Re:walled garden by interkin3tic · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      if you wanted options, you would have gone android... fucksticks.

      Why am I reminded of the "Love it or leave it" statements from the days of the Bush administration here?

      Oh right, the cursing...

    3. Re:walled garden by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 5, Funny

      iPhone has more software than Android, hence more options.

      Ah yes, greater variety in fart generator applications is really high on my list of features I want from a phone.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    4. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about a Slingbox player for Android?

    5. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good satire of Slashdot groupthink.

    6. Re:walled garden by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      iPhone has more software than Android, hence more options.

      Increased Volume != Increased Options.

      Android already has a far greater variety of software then the Iphone due to the locked nature of the application delivery and development system. The Iphone simply has more of the same applications then Android or as everyone points out, 100 times the number of fart applications but no third party mail clients.

      So with the Iphone, you have more software but fewer options.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    7. Re:walled garden by burris · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The irony of course is that Apple initially refused to approve fart apps.

    8. Re:walled garden by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So what it really comes down to is whether one really wants (in this case) a WiFi finder. I certainly won't miss such apps.

      First they came for the VoIP apps, and I did not speak out--because I had unlimited minutes;
      Then they came for the erotic apps, and I did not speak out--because I am religous;
      Then they came for the WiFi stumblers, and I did not speak out--because I do not need one;
      Then they came for my app--and no one spoke for me because 'Apple knows best'.

      A little melodramatic, maybe, but still somewhat apt I think. Apple has shown they have no qualms about removing entire categories of applications for the iPhone, all without provocation, explanation, or compensation. Anyone who depends on (develops for or uses) the iPhone in a serious business or financial sense is crazy.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    9. Re:walled garden by peragrin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      yep, and if you read the previous article, you would know developers are having problems coding for android as you never know what kind of hardware you will get.

      so you can have a dozen third party mail clients but only two of them will work on your android phone cause it has a different screen that doens't work quite right with the other apps.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    10. Re:walled garden by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

      no shit?

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    11. Re:walled garden by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      yep, and if you read the previous article, you would know developers are having problems coding for android as you never know what kind of hardware you will get.

      Yet there are many many applications which perform well on all android hardware.

      You logic explains why Windows is not the most popular development platform, because you never know what hardware you're going to get, nor which version of Windows, .net, DirectX and so forth. No wait...

      Android, much like Windows provides a consistent framework across multiple devices. For simple applications this is very simple, for difficult applications this is difficult, the same as in Windows and there are games and applications out there so poorly coded and tested that require a very specific version of DirectX just to run, you don't think they exist because no-body buys them. Only bad developers have these problems.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    12. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for the win.

      if you wanted options, you would have gone android... fucksticks.

      Three seconds reading TFA, and it seems that apps using the PlaceFinder library were removed, not a category of apps. Probably.. because it actually uses private APIs... *yawn*

    13. Re:walled garden by arazor · · Score: 1

      Until apple sues android out of existence.

    14. Re:walled garden by McGiraf · · Score: 1

      lol

    15. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > So with the Iphone, you have more software but fewer options.

      Apple trained its customers to pay for apps encouraging more developers and more ambitious development. We'll see how it turns out in the end, but that's why the iPhone App Store has remained successful.

    16. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think you mean "iphone developers" not "developers"

      applications have been dealing with variations in hardware since, well, forever. the iphone has cultured a breed of pampered developers with limited competence and allowed them to be profitable. the android platform does require a bit more skill, but that just means less shit apps and more useful stuff.

    17. Re:walled garden by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, what you say isn't quite true. If it were, the problem would be self-correcting.

      In order for app development to be financially viable, it has to possess a risk/reward ratio that compares favorably to other possible investments. Apple's trigger-happy tendencies raise the risk; but their install base and user willingness to shell out keeps the reward high. The real risk is not that they'll drive out app developers; but that they'll manage to preferentially drive out the good app developers.

      If I am running some cookie-cutter app sweatshop, churning out masses of crap under one or more company names that are little more than reskins of one another, with slightly different content packs(here's an app with twenty fart noises, here's another one with the same noises that we had the intern spend ten minutes tweaking with audacity and the buttons reskinned to look more like mucus blotches! Here's 50 pictures from the cheapest softcore porn back-catalog that we were able to licence. Hey, here's the same app with 50 different pictures! And so on and so forth), all I need to do is make money on average. If some of my apps never get approved, some get sacked 18 months in, some do OK, some prove PT Barnum right yet again, I'll come out just fine. By making so many crap apps, each one representing a small investment, I spread my risk out substantially(and, since the iPhone is the hot thing among well-heeled and app-happy cellphone users, getting merely average results will probably be satisfactory, particularly if I'm paying offshore rates for my dev time).

      On the other hand, some classic Mac indie dev house, pouring their heart and soul into one or two apps at a time, faces a very different situation. Their apps are substantially less likely to get shitcanned for sucking or for being tasteless; but their costs per app are comparatively huge. If an important patch update gets stuck in review hell for three weeks, while they rack up negative reviews, they are sunk. If their brilliant little gem happens to be a little too close to something Apple has planned for iPhone OS v. 4, it'll simply be murdered in the cradle without useful comment. Those odds are considerably less compelling.

    18. Re:walled garden by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      The oddness here is that these apps were ever approved to begin with. The phone already comes with built in functionality that scans for available hotspots.

    19. Re:walled garden by c_forq · · Score: 1

      I understand this argument, but in the case of phones it is a different beast entirely because the input devices are completely different. In PCs you assume everyone has a pointing device and a keyboard, but with phones they may have a touch screen, or lack a touch screen. There might be an accelerometer, or it might not be there. You may be able to have a physical keyboard, but a lot of Android phones don't. Even with touch screens they don't all respond to input the same way. Can you imagine making a PC program when a quarter of your users have mice that give completely different input than the rest of your user base?

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
    20. Re:walled garden by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Until apple sues android out of existence.

      I was actually thinking about this, today, in regards to HTC.

      One problem Apple has with Android is a similar problem that Microsoft had with Linux--there's no one to sue. Android "belongs" to no one--it's an open source project.

      So, for example, let's say Apple manages to get an injunction against HTC and they can't import their phones. So HTC stops installing Android on the phone and sends a phone without an operating system on it. When the customer buys the phone from T-mobile, say, T-mobile takes it in the back room and installs the latest greatest version of Android for that phone and brings it out to the customer.

      Now Apple would obviously try to go after T-mobile. I wonder how effective that would be...

    21. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My iPhone is unlocked, and I am not using the AT&T network either.

      It's easy to call people anything you like when you're anonymous, isn't it,
      you brave anonymous cum-slurping cocksucking piece of subhuman
      waste ?

      My name is Dick Cheney, and I'll kick your ass any time you like.

    22. Re:walled garden by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ah yes, greater variety in fart generator applications is really high on my list of features I want from a phone.

      Out of curiosity, did Final Fantasy make it to Android?

      Yes. Every NES, SNES (I think), and Genesis game is on Android via emulators. Here's a review of a NES emulator: http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/26/quick-review-nesoid-nes-emulator-for-android/

      I guess it's not legal, but if you're willing to go the emulator route you pay only $2 for thousands of NES games instead of the $9 I just spent on Final Fantasy on the iPhone.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    23. Re:walled garden by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Out of curiosity, did Final Fantasy make it to Android?

      It probably will be in due time. I don't think it's even been released for the iphone yet, has it?

    24. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      true, but then android has removed all the "usable interaction apps" from its store

    25. Re:walled garden by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 0

      Final Fantasy on the iPhone != NES Final Fantasy.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    26. Re:walled garden by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      iPhone has more software than Android, hence more options.

      300 versions of the same app really don't count as "options".

      And if you're going to advertise the WiFi function of your iPhone/iTouch/iPad, don't you think a "WiFi Finder" might be useful to your customers? That is, if you cared about your customers.

      But I understand, node 3. You have to fly the flag.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    27. Re:walled garden by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      PCs you assume everyone has a pointing device and a keyboard, but with phones they may have a touch screen, or lack a touch screen. There might be an accelerometer, or it might not be there. You may be able to have a physical keyboard, but a lot of Android phones don't.

      I dont think you understand Android development at all.

      I'm not having a go at you but you seem to miss important points which are massive flaws in your arguments.

      Android much like Windows has certain minimum hardware requirements (pointing device, x number of physical buttons, display device with minimum resolution). Much like Windows I can have additional or disparate hardware (D-pad vs trackball, higher res screen) but the API's are still meant to interpret the minimum standards of input so text from a soft keyboard is treated the same as text from a physical keyboard, the d-pad on a Droid/Milestone acts the same as the trackball on my Dream/G1 from the perspective of the application as that input is coming from the OS (HAL) not the HW directly.

      Your issue hinges on a program which require specific hardware to be present, if a developer has this requirement then they've made a conscious decision to use a specific platform and has to deal with the problems that arise from that. This is a conscious decision on the part of the developer, not a flaw in the OS.

      A program like APNDroid will work the same on all models as it was developed to use Android API not vendor specific hardware. The same as in Windows where a game (Half Life 2 for example) will work on a Logitek keyboard as well as it would on a Microsoft keyboard because it uses the Windows API for input, not hardware specific vendor drivers.

      The problem you describe is exactly the problem Operating Systems, or more specifically the HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) were made to solve. It's a 25 yr old problem, with a 24 yr old solution.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    28. Re:walled garden by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Yes, I have it right now.

      I'm not asking to be a butthead, I'm just curious. Apple's customers pay money for their apps in a way I've never seen with Palm or Windows Mobile. I think that's why we're seeing major companies using a lot of resources to release apps on the iPhone. I'm just trying to get a sense of if the Android developers are seeing the same benefit.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    29. Re:walled garden by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you would know developers are having problems coding for android as you never know what kind of hardware you will get.

      Microsoft and the Linux community seem to have worked that bit out.

      I'm not sure Slashdot is the best place to advocate for fewer hardware choices.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    30. Re:walled garden by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      the iphone has cultured a breed of pampered developers with limited competence

      You don't think it takes some competence to come up with 143 varieties of "Bikini Girls"?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    31. Re:walled garden by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On the other hand, some classic Mac indie dev house, pouring their heart and soul into one or two apps at a time

      And we all know how Apple treated them.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    32. Re:walled garden by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      libtards

      Cutting political commentary from the peanut gallery.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    33. Re:walled garden by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I don't know, sounds like he's talking out of his ass.

    34. Re:walled garden by LBt1st · · Score: 1

      It's true not all Android phones have a physical keyboard, they do all have touchscreens though. They also all have a standard set of buttons (granted not necessarily in the same place). Pretty sure they all have accelerometers too.

      As far as I know the only significant differences with the various phones currently out are the versions of Android. Old phones may still be running 1.5. Version 1.6 is still popular and newer phones like the Droid and NexusOne use 2.1 I believe.

    35. Re:walled garden by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      Yes, I have it right now.

      Really? When did it hit the app store?

      I'm honestly asking, as the "preview" I just saw on kotaku says "Available soon on the App Store"

    36. Re:walled garden by BrokenHalo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If their brilliant little gem happens to be a little too close to something Apple has planned for iPhone OS v. 4, it'll simply be murdered in the cradle without useful comment.

      It is the sheer nastiness of Apple's extreme highhanded policies and litigious corporate mindset that makes Apple platforms less and less attractive to me as time goes by. I have (and actually quite like) a MacBook, and the iPod is by far the best mp3 player around, but hardly a day goes by without Apple or sometimes Steve Jobs personally fucking someone over.

      I'll be voting with my wallet next time any of my devices need replacing. I've been using Linux on my desktop machines for over 15 years, and there's nothing stopping me using it on my next laptop. And I will not be buying an iPhone.

    37. Re:walled garden by Idiomatick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you bought it before then count it as format shifting. And bravely break laws that you find are unjust. Think of it as protest. Otherwise you are succumbing to threats by the mafiaa which is kinda lame. That and I haven't heard of anyone dling a rom getting charged millions for doing so (unlike mp3s).

    38. Re:walled garden by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      It was like 3 days ago. The updated the graphics and music, it's nice in that regard. I think the control's a little weird.. but for a Final Fantasy game that's not that important. I really wish they'd release IV, though. :D

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    39. Re:walled garden by mrsquid0 · · Score: 1

      Freedom of meaningless choice.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    40. Re:walled garden by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      The problem comes with a lack of strong standards. When you have a computer it has devices attatched to it and drivers that allow programers of aps to not need tweak for every computer setup.

      The same is not true for phones. For example. Sliding keyboards which rotate the screen. This rotated screen setup is non-standardized. So on one phone your ap might rotate as expected when you slide out the keyboard (or hold the thing sideways). But on another phone it won't. This feature needs to be part of the OS and standardized. (Disclaimer: I know this is broken in windows mobile but i dont know if it is done right in android)

      Another example is various processor types. A solution for this would be to have all apps release with a version for every chip. But devs don't seem to do this across the board for windows. (Likely solved by an ap store setting standards)

      As well for windows, backwards compatibility was important. With some tweaks I can get aps from the dos days running on windows 7. With windows mobile aps they are usually poorly documented perhaps not labeling even which version of windows it has been tested on. And there is no sign of aproval. Again something a strong ap store could help fix.

      I don't think an ap store is a requirement, it wasn't for windows. BUT I do think that the marketplace is too fucking messy atm. That wasn't a problem for windows. So I think it would be helpful to have one simply to set standards and layout how to do things (requiring meeting certain quility guideline or not ignoring certain features like.... differing resolutions). After that people can go off on their own.

    41. Re:walled garden by norpy · · Score: 1

      You mean like the network selector in the settings app provided with the phone?

    42. Re:walled garden by Erinnys+Tisiphone · · Score: 1

      Darn it, thank you for showing me the error of my ways. I *knew* I should have built that time machine in 2007 to go forward in time and get a phone that didn't exist yet... (?)

    43. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what a total bullshit answer.
       
      once an app that is worth anything is made someone is going to port it to other platforms and likely without as many limitations as the original. either you know this and you're being a troll or you don't know shit about the nature of apps development.
       
      so keep defending your little locked down gadget. i know, with confidence, which is the better choice. have fun sucking on steve jobs' nuts.

    44. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that the iPhone FF is a port of a PSP game, not a NES game. Good luck getting a PSP emulator to run.

    45. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Final Fantasy has been out for mobiles for ages - like six years. Granted, it only made it out to mobiles in the US recently, but yes, it's available for any phone that supports J2ME.

      Except that that's the real Final Fantasy, not the craptastic PSP port of the revised game that the iPhone got.

    46. Re:walled garden by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      What about customers that don't like that app, or simply prefer some aspect of another implementation? They are shit out of luck now.

      (Note -- I have no personal opinion about Apple's wifi finder -- I use Android.)

    47. Re:walled garden by daveime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      iPhone has more software than Android, hence more options.

      We are the iBorg. Resistance is Futile. Your culture will adapt to service ours. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. And then after a period of time, we will nerf your distinctiveness because it contains naughty words or functionality we should have provided in the first place, but decided to leave it till the next version so we could milk you for another $879 bucks.

    48. Re:walled garden by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      For example?

    49. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show me Final Fantasy for Android.

      You can run it on Nesoid.

      What about a Kindle app?

      I dunno... what about it?

      Can I at least get some native Exchange support?

      Search the app store.

      Surely it has an app that fully supports Skype?

      Yes, it does.

      Surely, it MUST have some sort of Push notification that Apps can tie into...

      Yes, it does. It also has multitasking, incidentally, and background processes.

      Any more questions?

    50. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll be voting with my wallet next time any of my devices need replacing. I've been using Linux on my desktop machines for over 15 years, and there's nothing stopping me using it on my next laptop. And I will not be buying an iPhone.

      Same here. The shiny 27" iMac was beckoning, but I opted for a Windows 7 machine instead (actually about the same price with the high res monitor).

      And my Droid isn't quite as good of an MP3 player as my old iPhone, but I actually think it's a better phone on balance.

    51. Re:walled garden by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      I really fail to see significance here. It'll be on android soon, the difference is people will probably do it themselves.

      meanwhile, apple's starting to go very short term business strategy. I think they're more screwed than people know right now.

    52. Re:walled garden by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      Soon? Citation needed

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    53. Re:walled garden by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      Why is this flamebait? Parent is right, android devs are having a hard time because of the variety of android hardware. I've noticed all the iPhone comments are marked flamebait but Android are all insightful, what happened to mods today? When did the iPhone go from jesus phone to anti-christ?

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    54. Re:walled garden by InlawBiker · · Score: 1

      Common sense needs no citation. And your meme button is stuck.

    55. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you had just bought the iPhone Final Fantasy you would realize that it is not the same as the NES version, and has a few extra things perhaps justifying the increased cost.

    56. Re:walled garden by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I really fail to see significance here.

      There really wasn't any. I was just asking. I was surprised that the game was being re-worked (new artwork and music and all) for the iPhone and wanted to know if an Android version was coming, too. I'm wondering (not stating... WONDERING, in case the nitwit that modded my post as flamebait is reading) if apps on the iPhone make more money than comparable apps on Android. If FF comes out on both platforms, the amount of money they both bring in is really interesting to know. If the iPhone's is higher, then that is something important for devs to know despite it being fashionable to shake our pitchforks at Apple. Unfortunately if that release is not soon, that really taints the data.

      It'll be on android soon, the difference is people will probably do it themselves.

      Um, no. It'll be on Android if Square ports to it or it won't happen at all.

      I think they're more screwed than people know right now.

      I think you're overestimating how much the masses care. People are happy to pay for apps on the iPhone. Developers will follow the money. The masses will then go "oh, neat! Actual game publishers are making games for that phone, I should get one!" Then more money is made. Then more developers go "whoah, there's money there!" And so on.

      It also doesn't help that Slashdot has already cried wolf at least once with these "Apple is locking people out!" stories.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    57. Re:walled garden by MikeFM · · Score: 1, Troll

      Or you can jailbreak your iPhone in about five minutes and do the same thing if you really want to. Personally I think jailbreaking the iPhone makes it have almost as poorly designed an interface as Android so I don't do it. I did try it though to see just how easy it is to do.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    58. Re:walled garden by MikeFM · · Score: 0, Troll

      Your argument would carry more weight if I didn't have years of experience in how crappy a platform Windows is - especially for games. Refusing to install, failing to run, random crashes, conflicting versions, missing dll files, etc. You can keep that crap - I'll stick to consoles where programmers and users know what to expect and will have many fewer problems. Android isn't a bad platform to develop for, it's better than Windows anyway, but it does have issues largely due to the flexibility it tries to offer (and a crap UI). Maybe this is balanced by letting developers code in Java instead of having to learn an oddball language like Objective-C.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    59. Re:walled garden by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Different screens are the biggest issue IMO. They want you to use vector graphics but vector graphics look like crap. They do provide some facilities for making it easier to handle the screen sizes but it still isn't as easy as the iPhone. Even with the iPad developers only have to worry about two screen sizes. I think there is a benefit to being slow to offer options.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    60. Re:walled garden by MikeFM · · Score: 0, Troll

      Anyone that relies on a single app, cateogry of app, or platform for their financial well being is crazy.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    61. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it me or is this the general business scheme of most silicon valley companies?

      Which is why Silicon Valley is increasing becoming the Silicon Desert. Another company comes to mind, Linden Lab. You know, the "creators" of that failure called SecondLife.

      I have friends who play that shit and the bullshit I hear from them about what the company does (seems to be the main form of entertainment) sounds just like what apple does.

      Guess what? They're also a silicon valley startup as well.

      The only company that isnt doing stupid "fuck the users we know best" seems to be google at the moment. But I wonder how long until after the founders step down (or "step down" in a Steve Jobs fashion) that google will become the real evil empire and start pulling random crap like this.

    62. Re:walled garden by pcolaman · · Score: 0, Troll

      You also forgot to specify that Android Developers can specify which version of the Andriod OS that their App will be available for on the Android Market. So if a Dev knows that their App will not work with pre 1.6 or pre 2.0 devices, they can deliver their app in such a way that it will not even be on the market for those who cannot properly run the program. The tired argument of too many hardware models is typical FUD spewed by entities like Apple, who like to have 100% control of their platform at every layer. I'm not saying the iPhone is a bad system in any means (have an iPod Touch myself) but I always laugh when I hear some Apple Fan making this same argument over and over again like the movie Groundhog Day. It wasn't right the first time and it's not right the next five billion times either.

    63. Re:walled garden by Morth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The builtin one is way worse though. It can't find wifis with no SSID and has a much higher threshold on the signal strength. No SSID might be a misconfigured wifi, but for example on a bus trip there's not much I can do about that as a passenger.

    64. Re:walled garden by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      More accurately, it's "mac developers." Apple has had a closed platform for some time now, and their team of lawyers ensures it stays that way.

    65. Re:walled garden by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      The line must be drawn here!

    66. Re:walled garden by MrHanky · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Oh, how cute. Whiny Mac fanboy confuses his own personal opinion with reality. Outside of your little bubble, the reality distortion field doesn't work so well: Windows is a huge success, and it works well most of the time.

    67. Re:walled garden by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 1

      No software installed when imported happens in the UK. If a PDA (like iPod Touch) has a calculator function, you have to pay import duty. If you import with no software, it lacks a calculator, no import duty to be paid.

    68. Re:walled garden by delinear · · Score: 1

      And similarly, "did Final Fantasy make it to Android?" != "did the iPhone specific version of Final Fantasy make it to Android?", what's your point?

    69. Re:walled garden by Burz · · Score: 1

      At this rate, it won't be long before Android at least has more types of software than iPhone. And that IMO counts more than 100 different brands of the same thing.

    70. Re:walled garden by siloko · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The oddness here is that these apps were ever approved to begin with.

      No - the oddness here is that people can't see beyond the end of their nose. The issue is not that a specific class of applications has been pulled but that any application is pulled. I am not going to argue with Apple's right to choose what happens on their App Store but I do question a geeks's choice when he supports a closed system over an open one. When others are making the decisions the function he takes for granted in the form that he deems pleasing is eventually going to be eroded. The market will decide whether this is a good thing for Apple's bottom line but for a geek to be an Apple apologist now just seems plain weird.

    71. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What your argument doesn't take into account, though, is that Google are developing a platform while Apple are merely trying to sell hardware. Bear in mind that, as successful as the iPhone has been in bringing smartphones to non-business users, it's still got a small share of the smartphone market and a tiny share of the overall market. By driving a non-hardware specific platform, google hopes to be able to leapfrog Apple's share on the market by simply putting their OS physically on other handsets.

      To win this race, they don't even need to compete with Apple, they just need to offer something which is better than the competitor offerings - given the state of the competition after a ten year head start, that shouldn't be too taxing. It might take more work to develop for multiple platforms, but people generally only even try if the returns are potentially much greater (and if they're not, the developers will stick to what they know and develop for a subset of the total number of handsets). All it takes is a moderate migration to Google's platform (no need to struggle trying to sell 10 million handsets when you can just cut a deal with someone who is already selling 10 million handsets to put your OS on their phone) to give them a strong market position and to woo all those iPhone App developers. If that means more open applications then it'll be a rare win for the consumer and no bad thing in my book.

    72. Re:walled garden by delinear · · Score: 1

      More to the point, if it doesn't have any of those things, you can brew your own without breaking the terms of your contract and maybe even make a little money (or just share the love) by letting others use it, too.

    73. Re:walled garden by DJRumpy · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Because we simply don't care? People here get so stressed about some of the most pedantic things. I use the WiFi outside my home once in a blue moon. It's just not that important since my data plan is unlimited. 3G is perfectly suitable for the occasional internet need while I'm at the doctors office, or sitting eating lunch and reading slashdot or some random news tidbit.

      'Joe User' simply doesn't care as the functions and apps they have work just fine for day to day use. I shouldn't be surprised given the typical slashdot reader, but it's almost like there's a complete disconnect between the geeks and the typical user in here. Usually folks in here are a little more level headed to at least attempt to understand the general wants and needs of the non-nerd folk (outside of linux anyway..lol).

      It like some sort of weird political extremist group in here lately. This whole Apple/Droid thing reminds me of the old Windows/Apple wars. It's become so polarized in here lately that people can't even state that they don't really care if it's a closed system, they just like the damn phone and geek ideals be damned.

      Every iPhone topic turns into how Apple is evil (+1 insightful, yeah baby), and how we should despise them (+1 underrated), or their the new 'Microsoft' (+1 fanboi), even if these 'blocked' apps aren't even apps we use, or care about. You end up reading post after post about how we're missing out by not buying a droid, and we're mindless drones, ect, etc, ad-nauseum.

      The very folks saying we're mindless drones just want us to become mindless droids. It's just turned into some weird caricature of South Park where the goths are running around calling everyone conformist, and stating you only need to wear dark clothes, listen to sad music, and hang out with the goth crowd to be non-conformists.

      Whatever...

    74. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the kind of argument which, taken to its natural conclusion, would have us all still back in the days of the punch card computer. After all, if something already exists which does what you need, why would anyone want to build something with a better UI, or more features, or that is faster or more efficient? The fact is, if people were buying these apps, they clearly had a need for them.

      The heavy handed approach of first approving and then nuking certain catagories of app (either because they show up the native iPhone apps as inadequate or for whatever reason) is what people object to more, though. It shows a total lack of respect for the developers (who cares if your arbitrary business decision just put a little indie development house under) and a total lack of respect for their customers (oh, you bought the phone specifically for this feature, well if you're lucky there'll still be a crippled version buried in the settings, enjoy the rest of your 24 month contract).

      Our best hope at this point is that their total lack of respect for their competition will allow Google or someone to come eat a big slice of their pie and maybe restore some balance, at the moment Apple are acting like some insane Roman emperor, bouyed up on their own sense of absolute power.

    75. Re:walled garden by siloko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually I probably misrepresented my views. I think it is fair enough to just 'not care' and use a product because it does what you want. But detaching personal preferences from the wider issue is important. The creeping control mindset which is increasingly evident at Apple does have negative consequences. To think that Apple used to be about individual expression . . . to see what it has become is frankly depressing!

    76. Re:walled garden by lewko · · Score: 1

      God you are so right. Although modded funny, your post is insightful.

      I've been comparing iPhone and Android, and the really useful apps are available on both platforms. Shazam, Evernote, Trapster. The gimmicky compass, spirit level, sound boards etc. as well.

      The extra thousands of apps for the iPhone are crap I'd never use anyway. It's as redundant as one country being able to blow up the whole world five times, versus another country only being able to do it once.

      What I really want, is a keyboard. Palm have abandoned us in Australia and the other phones are taking their sweet time getting here.

      Apps schmapps.

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
    77. Re:walled garden by lewko · · Score: 1

      Solution: Mac indie dev house porno.

      Everybody wins.

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
    78. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People don't buy a product to make other people happy. They buy it to make themselves happy, as is appropriate. Do you really expect people to buy a product that makes you happy regardless of their needs?

    79. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Troll? Parent must have struck a nerve...It's not without relevant content. Mods, really?

    80. Re:walled garden by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      300 versions of the same app really don't count as "options".

      They do whenever we talk about Linux applications...

    81. Re:walled garden by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

      Using someone else's wifi (unsecured) is generally illegal and hence applications which help people perform illegal acts are bound to be withdrawn.

    82. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So on the iPhone you have 1 good email client,
      0 third party email clients and 100 fart apps

      On the Android you have 100 third party email clients
      (network permitting) of varying quality and 100 fart apps.

      Not sure what's lost here?

      And yes, on the Android there will be fart apps ...

    83. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it pretty funny that the anti-Apple crowd that use to crow on and on about how there are "so many different apps for PCs than for Macs" are the same ones that are using the exact opposite argument for Android.

    84. Re:walled garden by plaincorgi · · Score: 1

      Android was not out when I bought this phone. Though it is looking more and more like my next phone will be android based. just need to find a few replacement apps (winadmin and beejive).

    85. Re:walled garden by tepples · · Score: 1

      The problem you describe is exactly the problem Operating Systems, or more specifically the HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) were made to solve.

      Unless it's a feature that's poorly exposed by the HAL. I've read reports in other comments on Slashdot that the Android HAL reports the GPS/compass/accelerometer in one device and that in another device as completely different kinds of device, and some of these devices have defective drivers.

    86. Re:walled garden by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      iPhone has more software than Android, hence more options.

      Citation? And not just for Android, but other platforms too (e.g., Symbian)? And by that, I don't mean app-store counts, as other platforms aren't restricted to that closed model - I mean total amount of software.

      And yes, the other commenter makes a good point - the type of applications is more important than the raw number. Consider one platform having applications in every area of functionality. Then consider a platform that has a higher number of overall applications, but misses out applications in some areas of functionality (in other words, the higher number is due to duplicating functionality). Which is better? The Iphone falls into that latter category - because we know there are areas that are missing, because Apple refuse those, and there's no other way to download them.

    87. Re:walled garden by siloko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you really expect people to buy a product that makes you happy regardless of their needs?

      Errr no - I'm guessing you have some issues with reading comprehension . . . When discussing the pros and cons of a company/product it is important to be able to detach ones personal preferences/choices from the wider issues at hand, else all we end up doing is cheerleading the shit we like - which, although fun, is hardly enlightening . . .

    88. Re:walled garden by mdwh2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because we simply don't care? People here get so stressed about some of the most pedantic things. I use the WiFi outside my home once in a blue moon. It's just not that important since my data plan is unlimited. 3G is perfectly suitable for the occasional internet need while I'm at the doctors office, or sitting eating lunch and reading slashdot or some random news tidbit.

      Standard Apple rule - if the Iphone has it, it's great (3G, unlimited dataplan). If not, it's "Why would I need that" or "Why care?" The great thing about this rule is that you can even change when new features are out - e.g., the Iphone had 3G years after other phones, before then it was "Why would I need that?"

      but it's almost like there's a complete disconnect between the geeks and the typical user in here.

      Yes, in that Apple phones are far more popular here than in the general public, judging by market share.

      This whole Apple/Droid thing reminds me of the old Windows/Apple wars.

      More like BeOS versus OS/2.

      Every iPhone topic turns into how Apple is evil (+1 insightful, yeah baby), and how we should despise them (+1 underrated), or their the new 'Microsoft' (+1 fanboi),

      Generally, anything pro-Apple is instant mod points, and any criticism usually gets modded down, unless you're careful or lucky.

      The very folks saying we're mindless drones just want us to become mindless droids.

      Oh right, because it's called a droid, this means people buying it are "droids".

      Personally I Think Different by not buying Apple.

      South Park is comedy, it's not actually based on reality. Their goth story was as much of a straw man as your argument against Droid users.

    89. Re:walled garden by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      People have been paying for things on mobiles long before the original Iphone was even released. Just look at the ring tone craze, where people hand over money even for something as trivial as a short mp3 tune.

      Palm and Windows Mobile (and indeed Android) are small players these days - how does the rest of the market compare?

    90. Re:walled garden by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      The difference is that the PC isn't locked down - having more applications (if it's even true - source, please?) is less of a bonus if some categories of applications aren't available because the company doesn't allow them on the platform, or if a particular application can be blocked or removed.

      I find it pretty funny that the pro-Apple crowd that use to crow on and on about how "having more applications is irrelevant so long as it does all I want" now quote the (alleged) claim of more applications as if the raw number is now the most important thing worth having. Which is it?

    91. Re:walled garden by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      But what if Apple bans something you do want tomorrow? It's not like people bought the iPhone knowing Apple wasn't going to allow WiFi finders and then complained about it. I just can't imagine paying money for a device that someone else still controls like that. To each their own I guess.. or is that to each Apple's?

    92. Re:walled garden by morgauxo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's actually a very good reason for this. The market doesn't build for geeks anymore. Once upon a time computers were a very geeky thing (make no mistake, that's what an iPhone is... a computer). Products where actually marketed with us in mind.

      We are still here. As a potential market we still exist but no one cares because now there are so many more 'regular' users. In comparison companies don't see us as worth marketing to.

      That's actually ok. There's a long history of geeks 'hacking' standard consumer devices and making them do new things. Sometimes this even results in new products for the 'normal' users. We can deal with that. Things are changing though. Manufacturers are becoming protective of their platforms. They are adding roadblocks to keep us from customizing our own stuff. Sure an iPhone can be jailbroken today but what if there isn't a bug in the next version we can exploit to do that? What if the iPhone puts the more open phones out of business? They sure seem popular enough. What if other manufacturers see the success of the iPhone and emulate them, closed nature and all? There could be nothing left for us. That's what we are really concerned about, not the 'normal' users.

      It's not just the geeks that lose out if this happens. Like I said earlier, our tinkering does often lead to new features for the next generation of 'normal' user products. It's not that the iPhone doesn't do a lot of cool things today, it's that it might not do anything better tomorrow. I don't think ranting on Slashdot will do much to enlighten the public about this but it's probably about as useful as anything else we can do.

    93. Re:walled garden by Duradin · · Score: 1

      We've always been at war with Apple.

      Did you hear the good news about our chocolate rations?

    94. Re:walled garden by Gta-Klue · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Really? And what about the iPod Touch users? We don't have a data plan, we depend on WiFi.

      --
      This is PURE EAU DE TROLLETTE
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    95. Re:walled garden by PeanutButterBreath · · Score: 1

      Anyone that relies on a single app, cateogry of app, or platform for their financial well being is crazy.

      That is a completely batshit crazy load of crap.

    96. Re:walled garden by Nerdposeur · · Score: 1

      What you really mean is if we wanted specific options (those that aren't available for iPhone, but are for Android), we'd have gone Android. So what it really comes down to is whether one really wants (in this case) a WiFi finder.

      No, what he really means is if you wanted freedom from someone arbitrarily removing options or preventing you from creating them yourself, you would have gone Android.

      Maybe lots of people picked iPhone based partly on having a WiFi finder. But now they don't. What favorite app will disappear next? Nobody knows.

      What it really comes down to is whether one really wants the final say about one's own device.

    97. Re:walled garden by pastafazou · · Score: 1

      how about when the geek is writing software for the closed system and making good money at it? If I had to choose between writing software for two different platforms, whether they are open or closed isn't going to play much of a factor in my decision. What I care about is which platform is going to outsell the other, thereby increasing the potential for profits of my software.

    98. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh you laugh now, but one day you will need a fart generator application to get yourself out of a shitty situation without looking too awkward...

    99. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The touch also comes with the same built-in WiFi scanner. It will tell you if a network is secured via the lock next to the name. These 'apps' that were removed use the same API's. I don't see they would be more 'sensitive' using the same hardware/antenna's.

    100. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the iPod is by far the best mp3 player around

      Not any more. The classic is stale and the Touch has never been great as an mp3 player, though it is a good all around device. If you want a great mp3 player I suggest...hold on to your hat...a Zune HD. The interface is better than iTunes on the Touch and the sound quality is much better.

    101. Re:walled garden by Desert+Raven · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, I seriously want to see them take on Motorola. Taking on HTC was like taking on the scrawny kid in school who isn't part of the "in crowd". He's not that dangerous, and nobody will back him up. Taking on Motorola would be more like a junior high art student taking on a college senior on a martial arts team.

      They get away with HTC, because they know HTC's patent portfolio is thin. But all it would take is for Motorola to drop the filing cabinet on them containing their patent portfolio and Apple will crawl away crying for mommy.

    102. Re:walled garden by Sparr0 · · Score: 0, Troll

      One of the prerequisites for owning an iPhone is having more money than sense, and being willing to spend it on frivolous things that are free/cheap elsewhere. That has applied to most Apple products throughout history. Take almost any application available for free on Linux, and there is someone publishing a $20 shareware equivalent for Mac OS(X), and hundreds to tens of thousands of Mac users paying for it.

      If I had a dollar for every time someone asked me (who carries and has access to a lot of random hardware on a regular basis) for an iP____ charger, when I had access to dozens of normal standard (usb, barrel plug, etc) chargers... I'd have a lot of dollars.

    103. Re:walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you would know developers are having problems coding for android as you never know what kind of hardware you will get.

      Microsoft and the Linux community seem to have worked that bit out.

      Not that I disagree with you, but do keep in mind that Microsoft Windows on PC's and Linux on PC's have much more processing power than the smartphones. So, while you are correct, that this problem is largely solved on desktop PC's, this solution isn't necessarily a 1:1 transfer to smartphones, with much slower hardware in comparison.

    104. Re:walled garden by killsome · · Score: 1

      the iPod with Rockbox installed is by far the best mp3 player around

      Fixed that for you.

    105. Re:walled garden by slycrel · · Score: 1

      The iPhone port of FF1 and FF2 (japan 2) are apparently the same versions as were released for the PSP, but less expensive and with some touch inputs added. They aren't perfect control-wise, but very fun for the nostalgia involved and at a reasonable price.

    106. Re:walled garden by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Take almost any application available for free on Linux, and there is someone publishing a $20 shareware equivalent for Mac OS(X), and hundreds to tens of thousands of Mac users paying for it.

      Really? I've never heard of this. Do you have an example? Is that why shareware apps aren't made for Windows?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    107. Re:walled garden by BoberFett · · Score: 1

      Of course Apple will sell more than Android. The larger installed user base makes that inevitable. Even if it were released the same day for both platforms, the fact that there are 20x more iPhones out there (number pulled from ass, don't know what it actually is) means it will sell more.

    108. Re:walled garden by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      I hate to defend those people, but if they have an iPhone* they might want to have an application for some specific purposes. They have paid the $99 for the right to put their application on their own phone, so it's a no brainer that they would start distributing it through the AppStore.
      *- Face it, when it came out, it was the most usable smartphone out there by far.

    109. Re:walled garden by BoberFett · · Score: 1

      I can practically smell the patchouli...

    110. Re:walled garden by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Given that Final Fantasy has not been ported to Android, nor has it been announced, I'm not sure why you need clarification on my point.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    111. Re:walled garden by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      If you want a great mp3 player I suggest...hold on to your hat...a Zune HD.

      Putting aside my temperamental aversion to Microsoft, that just isn't an option here in Australia. Remember, the Zune is not available outside the US or Canada. Just goes to show how serious Microsoft ever were about that the mp3 player market.

      The claim that the Classic is "stale" seems a bit silly. Sure, it's not be the most recent design, but who cares? It is elegant, simple to use, and hasn't really dated. And 160GB is more storage than anything else I've seen on offer.

    112. Re:walled garden by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Yes, not putting all your eggs in one basket is a new and crazy concept I just came up with. I invented financial diversity.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    113. Re:walled garden by dwightk · · Score: 1

      100 times the number of fart applications but no third party mail clients.

      no third party mail clients except all of the web based third party mail clients... like gmail

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    114. Re:walled garden by c_forq · · Score: 1
      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
    115. Re:walled garden by c_forq · · Score: 1
      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
    116. Re:walled garden by Wyvern2005 · · Score: 1

      Too true, chum. But they didn't so now they can all just stand around while their world is "sanitized" to make it safe....
          I have a G1 and will eventually be buying another Android phone (once they come up with a better dev phone with a hard keyboard)
          Apple can go stuff itself-I hear their stock is taking a hit, too.
          MORE ANDROID!!!

      --
      Oops..was I supposed to push that button?
    117. Re:walled garden by jaysones · · Score: 1

      No, I disagree. He mentions several input options that are specific to phones. A phone may or may not have a keyboard but a computer will always have a keyboard and a mouse. An example is: if you're create a driving game for Android, why would you code for accelerometer steering if a big chunk of the users won't have the hardware? A desktop programmer would never think "what if they don't have a mouse?" Android developers will neglect everything above the bottom spec because otherwise they're limiting their market or wasting their own time.

    118. Re:walled garden by jaysones · · Score: 1

      It's not that. PC developers never think "what if my user has no mouse? Better only use the keyboard." That should be a fear for Android users though. Why write for higher-end phone hardware features if that only limits your market? As a user, why buy the nice hardware if none of it's implemented in apps?

    119. Re:walled garden by jaysones · · Score: 1

      Why do you think the MacBook and the iPod are so nice? Because of the exact same things you're turned off by. You wanna make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs.

  2. Really? by GaryPatterson · · Score: 5, Informative

    I just ran a search for WiFi in the app store, and plenty of free finders appeared.

    Was there something about these specific apps, or is this just about those apps using reserved (ie subject to change) frameworks?

    In short - let's not panic just yet, hm?

    1. Re:Really? by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Informative

      I just ran a search for WiFi in the app store, and plenty of free finders appeared.

      TFA mentioned 3 apps, and gave the reason for one of them as being because they used a private API. Maybe its just a PO'd or two developer beating up a story?

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    2. Re:Really? by anagama · · Score: 5, Informative
      I read this morning that the ones removed were the ones using private frameworks. Indeed, a quick google: http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/03/05/apple-bans-wifi-hotspot-detecting-apps-from-itunes-iphone-ipod-touch-apps-using-%E2%80%98private-frameworks%E2%80%99-pulled/

      It should be said that so far the only Apps to be pulled are those that actively scan for WiFi hotspots and not those that employ a database paired with the iPhone's GPS capabilities

      So the ones left are totally lame.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    3. Re:Really? by clang_jangle · · Score: 4, Informative
      Looks like you're right. FTFA:

      "We received a very unfortunate e-mail today from Apple stating that WiFi-Where has been removed from sale on the App Store for using private frameworks to access wireless information," WiFi Where-maker Three Jacks Software, wrote on its Web site.
      There was no explanation as to what Apple meant by "private frameworks." Apple representatives were not immediately available for comment when contacted by CNET.
      TechCrunch says Tonchidot, a Tokyo-based developer, had its app Sekai Camera removed because of its use of Wi-Fi, too. Sekai Camera uses PlaceEngine as a way to determine a user's location over Wi-Fi.
      PlaceEngine developer Koozyt says other apps that use its technology have also been removed, including Yahoo! Maps for the iPhone.

      So it looks like this may be about the PlaceEngine framework, not wifi per se. And this is why we need to RTFA, there are just too many false and/or misleading summaries.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    4. Re:Really? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are technical measures Apple can take to prevent applications from using private frameworks. But Apple doesn't use that approach.

      This whole issue smells like selective enforcement of Kafkaesque ever-shifting, secret rules against applications Apple needs an excuse to remove.

    5. Re:Really? by GaryPatterson · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. I'm not sure that's what you meant though.

    6. Re:Really? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      More to the point does this mean that the iphone API provides no way to scan for hotspots? If that is the case I am glad I didn't try to build this list with an iphone.

    7. Re:Really? by Virak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How are programs that provide superior functionality 'clutter' by any definition of the word?

    8. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The term "Kafkaesque" usually refers to Kafka's "The Trial", where a man is arrested and prosecuted without ever being told what the crime is. Although sometimes it refers to "Metamorphosis", which involves people turning into giant roaches. You make the call.

    9. Re:Really? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Because they clutter your device with useful features, duh.

    10. Re:Really? by Wayne247 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Can you honestly say that with a straight face while browsing the hundreds of fart apps and stupid slideshows of 5 pictures or less? The App store is indeed cluttered by tens of thousands of utterly useless and worthless apps, but the Wi-Fi finding category is certainly not contributing by much.

    11. Re:Really? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The Castle" arguably qualifies as well.

    12. Re:Really? by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 3, Informative

      Clutter is the wrong word, however, you are correct in that the use of unpublished APIs should be enforced. The problem with the average use is, that if an App uses a private API and that API changes, the user will blame Apple when the next version of iPhone OS breaks the app. Developers should NOT use unpublished APIs in production software.

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    13. Re:Really? by jrumney · · Score: 1

      The quality of the overall iPhone experience is threatened by being able to find WiFi networks?

      Drink the black turtleneck kool-aid much?

    14. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's because apps like WiFiTrack actively search for networks, then connect to each and test it. Apple doesn't like apps that disconnect from wifi networks and join others, it could DoS something or be used to hack or phish.

    15. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is something that worries me and will likely keep me from developing any apps using Flash CS5. Apple could one day just up and decide they don't approve of Adobe's reverse-engineer method of publishing apps from Flash, and POOF, goodbye to all apps originating from Flash.

    16. Re:Really? by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Actually it's a dung beetle.. I have no idea if that makes it more appropriate in Apple's case or not.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    17. Re:Really? by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      I originally read kefka. And thought he meant apple is an insane clown. Which i guess i could see. Then you commented about 'the trial' and I thought you meant 'the trial' scene from chrono trigger.

      I'd say too much squaresoft but you can never really have too much.

    18. Re:Really? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      So it looks like this may be about the PlaceEngine framework, not wifi per se.

      The OS X version of PlaceEngine is an app, not a framework - and it, err, umm, uses a private framework:

      $ otool -L PlaceEngine
      PlaceEngine:
      /usr/lib/libxml2.2.dylib (compatibility version 9.0.0, current version 9.16.0)
      /usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.7.dylib (compatibility version 0.9.7, current version 0.9.7)
      /System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework/Versions/A/Cocoa (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 11.0.0)
      /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/Apple80211.framework/Versions/A/Apple80211 (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 2.0.0)

      ...

      The iPhone OS version might do the same. Yes, it's unfortunate that there's no public API in OS X - and, I suspect, iPhone OS - to get information about nearby access points, but I wouldn't assume that the private interfaces are, in their current state, something that Apple would like to be forced to preserve in a compatible fashion so as not to break third-party apps.

    19. Re:Really? by Threni · · Score: 2, Funny

      They'd be clutter if it's not core functionality. So if Firefox had a built in feature which allowed you to encrypt local files, it might be `superior` functionality but it doesn't belong in a browser - it should be an add-on at best. You can imagine 1000 similar features and it would bloat firefox to about a larger than needed install, it would take ages to start up and require a large memory footprint....

    20. Re:Really? by Eightbitgnosis · · Score: 1

      If you complain with enough words and veracity the other monkeys in this online zoo will clap for you

    21. Re:Really? by Threni · · Score: 1

      Arguably, he only actually wrote the one book; they're all fairly similar.

    22. Re:Really? by dargaud · · Score: 1

      The term "Kafkaesque" usually refers to Kafka's "The Trial", where a man is arrested and prosecuted without ever being told what the crime is.

      Maybe we should update the vocabulary to 'Guantanamesque', like 9 years without trial. Or 'ACTAesque', like secret laws you are not allowed to know.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    23. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this is why we need to RTFA, there are just too many false and/or misleading summaries.

      What, on Slashdot? Surely you jest!!

    24. Re:Really? by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I have WifiFoFum, and use it for network troubleshooting and such - along with seeing if there is a decent hotspot before digging out my laptop in an unfamiliar place.

      I'm curious to see how they treat users who have purchased rejected apps. What happens if I remove it, and want to re-download it? Do I get my money back?

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    25. Re:Really? by ActiveMan · · Score: 0

      They have removed just WiFi signal scanners such as WiTrak

  3. What's next? by ryantmer · · Score: 4, Funny

    First they remove the pron apps, then the wifi steal- er, "borrowing" apps... What use do these "iPhone" devices have anymore, anyway?

    --
    Whatever it is, it's notablog.
    1. Re:What's next? by Voyager529 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sports Illustrated and Playboy, but only over 3G.

    2. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... all the people who were moaning that Apple couldn't survive without Steve Jobs: Are you glad he's back to micromanaging the company again?

      I don't wish the man ill, by any means. But as an Apple customer I'm beginning to wish he'd take more extended vacations.

    3. Re:What's next? by Tobenisstinky · · Score: 1

      Oh, about 134,997 apps...

      --
      wha'? where am i?
    4. Re:What's next? by smash · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Without jobs, there would have been no imac, ipod, iphone, etc.

      So... you take the good with the bad. Without Jobs, or someone like him who is actually passionate about making a product HE would like to use, apple would (and almost did) die.

      I am wondering what's going to happen when he retired, which surely isn't that far off...

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    5. Re:What's next? by icannotthinkofaname · · Score: 1

      What use do these "iPhone" devices have anymore, anyway?

      Well...I'm pretty sure they're still phones.... I bet they can still make phone calls. Maybe even send text messages, too!

      I hope, anyway....

      I do not own an iPhone, nor do I ever plan to own one, but...yeah...I'd hope anything with "phone" in the name would be able to contact other phones.

      --
      Let q be a radix > 1. I am in ur base-q, killing 10 d00ds.
    6. Re:What's next? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      In all probability, the bean counters will find somebody with all the control-freakery and none of the taste. They should be able to coast for a few years without much trouble, squeeze out some very impressive profits in the short term, liquidate the cash holdings and whatever isn't nailed down in favor of the shareholders with the most pull.

      Once, they've sucked the place dry, they can spin the patents off as a fearsome patent troll, which should be able to levy a tax on pretty much all computers and smartphones produced for a fair few years, and whore out the trademarks and logos to assorted random products, just like Polaroid.

      Chillingly plausible, no?

    7. Re:What's next? by smash · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I seriously hope not, but the cynic in me says thats a scary possibility.

      Agree with Apple's policy on various things (drm, itunes app store, etc) or not - Jobs has been responsible for some pretty revolutionary products, and just plain "cool" stuff. I'm talking NeXT, OS X, iphone, ipod, etc.

      I mean, look up the NextStep demo on youtube. Thats from 1993! The PC world was on Windows 3.1 or DOS, while Jobs is sending voice annotated email, developing a GUI database app with drag and drop (virtually no code), etc.

      Sure, NEXT machines were expensive, but the capabilities were (at the time) just out of this world...

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    8. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without the mature Jobs. He was the reason Apple got in trouble in the first place and had to be got rid of.

    9. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple does not have any use for them after they are bought.

    10. Re:What's next? by walter_f · · Score: 1

      "I am wondering what's going to happen when he [Steve Jobs] retired, which surely isn't that far off..."

      Might be pretty close, yes.

      In one of Apple's most recent press releases, Steve Jobs was quoted as having said the following:

      "We're excited for customers to get their hands on this magical and revolutionary product and connect with their apps and content in a more intimate, intuitive and fun way than ever before."

      http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/24260/

      (Please note, he was referring to just the iPad...)

  4. Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by russotto · · Score: 3, Informative

    It appears Apple's problem with the apps isn't with what they do but with how they do it; namely, using non-public frameworks. There probably isn't a way to do it using public frameworks, though (on Mac OS X, you need to use the private Apple80211.framework, not sure about iPhone OS X).

    1. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by mjwx · · Score: 1

      It appears Apple's problem with the apps isn't with what they do but with how they do it; namely, using non-public frameworks. There probably isn't a way to do it using public frameworks,

      So, according to your logic, Apple pulled the applications not because of their function but because they did not implement it using public frameworks, however Apple have not sanctioned this function in the official framework? Presumably this was done because Apple does not agree with/want the function.

      Have you officially been inducted into the vague tautology club yet?

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      Have you officially been inducted into the vague tautology club yet?

      Kind of.

    3. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by russotto · · Score: 1

      Presumably this was done because Apple does not agree with/want the function.

      Have you officially been inducted into the vague tautology club yet?

      It's only a tautology if you make that particular assumption, which I do not.

    4. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I hear that if a million iPhone users join there'll be a million iPhone users in the club.

    5. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by mjwx · · Score: 1

      It's only a tautology if you make that particular assumption, which I do not.

      How else do you explain it? If Apple did not care about the function it would leave the app's as they were, if it did care about the function it would include it in the public frameworks?

      Function is the common denominator in the revoked applications, to try and say it they were retroactively revoked due to some QA seems absurd due to the fact that only applications with a specific function were targeted . It seems failing to make that particular assumption is like not being able to put two and two together (be careful with Occam's razor, it's sharp).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      IMHO, any framework that is accessible is by default public.

    7. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by falconwolf · · Score: 1, Informative

      It appears Apple's problem with the apps isn't with what they do but with how they do it; namely, using non-public frameworks. There probably isn't a way to do it using public frameworks, though

      No, other apps that do the same thing are still allowed and available in the app store.

      (on Mac OS X, you need to use the private Apple80211.framework, not sure about iPhone OS X).

      No you don't. Unlike with iPhones and iPads, with their crippled phoneOS, I can use any framework I want that I can install on my MacBook Pro. Developers can even develop for X11. I have X11 installed on my Mac, it comes on OS X DVDs and can be downloaded as well.

      Falcon

    8. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by vijayiyer · · Score: 1

      Except that it actually takes _work_ to expose APIs to the public. It means documentation, support, and the baggage of not breaking it in the future.
      Did you consider that they just don't feel that it's worth the effort?

    9. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How else do you explain it? If Apple did not care about the function it would leave the app's as they were, if it did care about the function it would include it in the public frameworks?

      Function is the common denominator in the revoked applications, to try and say it they were retroactively revoked due to some QA seems absurd due to the fact that only applications with a specific function were targeted . It seems failing to make that particular assumption is like not being able to put two and two together (be careful with Occam's razor, it's sharp).

      You don't seem to understand WHY programming interfaces are labeled public and private, or stable and unstable.
      If they cared about the functionality, they could whip up a technical means of restricting access. Private interfaces are private because they might not be formally documented, designed or committed to. What's private now might be made public later if there is enough demand for it and the design is solid. If they liked the design of it, it would probably already be a public interface though...

      I don't know why Apple isn't picking these things up sooner, maybe they know but revoke apps only when a particular interface is about to change?
      It doesn't matter how they do it, using private/unstable interfaces is gamble any way you cut it.

    10. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by agrif · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, other apps that do the same thing are still allowed and available in the app store.

      As far as I can tell, these other apps don't scan actively for access points. That is, they don't use the private framework.

      (on Mac OS X, you need to use the private Apple80211.framework, not sure about iPhone OS X).

      No you don't.

      Yes, you do.

      That is, unless you want to rewrite the portion of the Darwin kernel that interfaces with the plethora of wireless network devices that Mac OS X is designed to handle, and provide support for that, all for your wifi stumbler or whatever. The option is always open to roll your own code, even in these cases on the iPhone. Sometimes, though, that option is just stupid.

      Unlike with iPhones and iPads, with their crippled phoneOS, I can use any framework I want that I can install on my MacBook Pro.

      The iPhone OS is far from crippled. It's a full UNIX running on a phone, with a full-featured Apple Objective-C runtime, with a snazzy custom multitouch UI. The sandbox and features given to developers through the official Apple program is crippled. The OS is not.

      To be pedantic, as well, you can use any framework you want that you can install on your iPhone as well. You may have to jailbreak it to get write access to the frameworks, but you can still use it once it's on there.

    11. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by yodleboy · · Score: 1

      "No, other apps that do the same thing are still allowed and available in the app store."

      NO! they do not "do the same thing". I just tried two of the remaining apps. when you launch it, it asks for your location or permission to use location services. THEN it searches a database of "free" wifi hotspots near you. near meaning 5 miles away at the nearest starbucks, not the 5 networks my neighbors have listed in my laptop's wifi app. what it does not do, then, is sniff the air for random wifi signals and let you know there's one available. seems like only apps that direct you to retail locations are gonna be approved.

      the deal is, i don't see the usefulness of this kind of app in either implementation. if you open the wifi section in the iphone settings screen, you get a list of all networks within range of your phone and whether they are secured. in my experience, MOST pay networks seem to be secured in some way, so that's a fairly accurate indicator of whether you can get free wifi.

    12. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by agrif · · Score: 1

      The functions involved here are cutting close to the kernel. It could be that it's not possible (or easy) to expose this functionality in a way that prevents access to system-breaking interfaces, or that using these functions can keep some integral part of the iPhone OS from functioning properly. Apple is understandably very protective about the lowest-level radio controls on a cell phone.

    13. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      IMHO, any framework that is accessible is by default public.

      What's the problem honoring someone's logical distinction between things they have committed to maintaining vs. things they have not and will remove you from their store if you depend on it not changing? We're talking stability here, not security. Lets please not introduce more access controls to protect the stupid.

    14. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by falconwolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The iPhone OS is far from crippled. It's a full UNIX running on a phone, with a full-featured Apple Objective-C runtime, with a snazzy custom multitouch UI. The sandbox and features given to developers through the official Apple program is crippled. The OS is not.

      If I can not install whatever software on my equipment and instead have to use the app store then it is crippled. If I don't do what I want on it that I can do on my Mac then it is crippled.

      To be pedantic, as well, you can use any framework you want that you can install on your iPhone as well. You may have to jailbreak it to get write access to the frameworks, but you can still use it once it's on there.

      But I don't have to jailbreak my Mac. Heck I've even got assistance from Apple store genuses to set up my Mac to dual boot Ubuntu. What I have been told at a store though is that they can not help me with developer uses, instead I'm referred to the Apple Developer Connection.

      Falcon

    15. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      NO! they do not "do the same thing".

      Why then does the link the Cnet article links to say this "Not all the Wi-Fi finding apps have been removed however. There are still a couple of Wi-Fi finders, including JiWire's Free Wi-Fi Finder and WiFi Directory"?

      i don't see the usefulness of this kind of app in either implementation. if you open the wifi section in the iphone settings screen, you get a list of all networks within range of your phone and whether they are secured. in my experience, MOST pay networks seem to be secured in some way, so that's a fairly accurate indicator of whether you can get free wifi.

      If as you say the iPhone lists access points it detects then I don't see a use for these apps either. I don't know if they do that though, I don't have and have no interest in getting an iPhone, but whenever I'm out and I launch a browser on my Mac I am asked if I want to join any of the access points it detects.

      Falcon

    16. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Why do they need to protect me from maintaining my app? If I use an API and they do something that breaks it, it's my responsibility to fix it or they pull the app. This is the exact same way it worked going from the 2.0 SDK to the 3.0 SDK and will be how it works as they deprecate parts of the API going forward.

      The stability reason is just an excuse to remove apps at will for whatever real reason they have at the time.

    17. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by Guy+Harris · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do they need to protect me from maintaining my app? If I use an API and they do something that breaks it, it's my responsibility to fix it or they pull the app.

      If it's an officially documented API, that is not the case, at least not with Mac OS X (and, as far as I know, with other commercial UN*Xes and Windows). People generally get peeved if updating the OS breaks an app, and the first organization to which they complain is likely to be the OS vendor, so the OS vendor makes at least some effort not to break APIs. I think Raymond Chen has talked about this at Microsoft, and it's also an issue at Apple (try doing nm -p /usr/lib/libSystem.dylib | egrep '\$' on OS X - at least in newer versions, you'll find multiple versions of some APIs, so that the API can be changed without breaking binary compatibility with older apps).

      Does the iPhone OS SDK say otherwise? Does it explicitly say that, if any app works on version N and fails to work on version N+1, it's ipso facto the app developer's fault?

    18. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      NO! they do not "do the same thing".

      Why then does the link the Cnet article links to say this "Not all the Wi-Fi finding apps have been removed however. There are still a couple of Wi-Fi finders, including JiWire's Free Wi-Fi Finder and WiFi Directory"?

      Because, to quote an update to the Cult Of Mac article, "Perhaps the private framework is the iPhone’s built-in 802.11 radio? The remaining Wi-Fi finders in the App Store aren’t stumblers, but lists of free hotspots that are found using the iPhone’s GPS or network triangulation capabilities." (emphasis mine).

    19. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Apple is understandably very protective about the lowest-level radio controls on a cell phone.

      Apple's cell phone has more than one radio in it. The radio that implements IEEE 802.11 is separate from the radio that implements the GSM/UMTS air interfaces (and separate from the radios that implement Bluetooth and GPS).

    20. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by tofubeer · · Score: 1

      So, according to your logic, Apple pulled the applications not because of their function but because they did not implement it using public frameworks, however Apple have not sanctioned this function in the official framework? Presumably this was done because Apple does not agree with/want the function.

      or... link any non-public API in any system it is for internal use and could be modified. If people call undocumented APIs on any system then apps will break if the API changes in the future. What would be best is if Apple would disallow apps from entering the store if they use undocumented APIs directly rather than pulling them after the fact. It should be relatively simple for Apple to write a tool to check that no undocumented APIs are directly called. On the other hand, if developers paid attention and didn't call undocumented APIs in things they submit to the App store this also would not be an issue. Apple makes it very clear that the use of non-public APIs is verboten.

    21. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by TRRosen · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      because dumbass when someone applies the 4.0 update and your app stops working their going to bitch to Apple that 4.0 broke your app. Of course when you use improper APIs your app is broken to start with.

    22. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is crippled, in the sense that it has lots of power that you can't touch. But you're right, it's still OSX, it's still based on Mach with shitty threads.

    23. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be pedantic, as well, you can use any framework you want that you can install on your iPhone as well. You may have to jailbreak it to get write access to the frameworks, but you can still use it once it's on there.

      "Just works!",
      that's what the fanboi's tell us, isn't it.

    24. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

      Unless there is a public framework somewhere to do the same thing--and you admit this is unlikely--you're doing nothing but regurgitating Apple's corporate PR speak justifying why they were completely right to do exactly what they would have done either way.

    25. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      This is exactly what happened when moving from 2.0 to 3.0. Developers had to update their apps or they may have stopped working and got pulled. It doesn't matter if you used improper APIs.

      And bitching at Apple is part of what Apple gets for being the sole provider/gatekeeper/censor for the app store. They have forced themselves into that role, so I don't think they can complain when they catch the complaints in addition to the compliments.

      While I'm ranting on the app store, another huge annoyance is the refunds. Apple gives them but will never tell the developer why. Instead they give some form message that if you get a lot of refunds you might have a quality issue. Huh? To get a refund you have to fill out a whole form. Why can't that form be anonymously sent to the developer? They treat developers like crap and this issue with the APIs is just more of the same.

    26. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by TRRosen · · Score: 0, Troll

      Poor baby those mean old men gave you the chance to make millions of dollars. How cruel of them.
      How dare they update their OS and expand their SDK giving more opportunity to make money.
      Why their so cruel they might even come up with a new device that will expand the market for your apps even further making you waste your time counting money.

    27. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by falconwolf · · Score: 0, Redundant

      They still do the same thing, find wifi.

      Falcon

    28. Re:Doesn't appear to be a moral judgement by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      This is exactly what happened when moving from 2.0 to 3.0. Developers had to update their apps or they may have stopped working and got pulled. It doesn't matter if you used improper APIs.

      O RLY? I didn't see updates for all the third-party apps on my iPhone prior to 3.0 or when 3.0 came out. Apple might require you to verify that your app still works with an OS update, and fix it if it doesn't, but if it still works on the new OS, there should be no need to make an update and, as far as I know, there is no need to make an update.

  5. I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is Apple actively trying to destroy any developer relationship that they had, and are they trying to show the community that they are not up to the challenge of hosting an app store?

    As a software developer that owns an iPhone 3GS owner, and a first generation iPod touch, I feel like I am reminded every day as to why I do not drop $100 and write an application for my own phone.

    1. Re:I wonder by sbeckstead · · Score: 3, Funny

      As a software developer that owns an iPhone 3GS owner
      Wow, how do I get one of those. I've always wanted a 3GS owner.

    2. Re:I wonder by anagama · · Score: 2, Funny

      Didn't you get the memo? Even though I'm sure Iphone 3GS owners are not a protected class, slavery is definitely NOT legal anymore.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    3. Re:I wonder by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wow, how do I get one of those. I've always wanted a 3GS owner

      You can't buy one, but if you wink just right, one might follow you home from the bar.

    4. Re:I wonder by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is Apple actively trying to destroy any developer relationship that they had, and are they trying to show the community that they are not up to the challenge of hosting an app store?

      No, they're just trying to show their users that they have total control. Just to remind you. In case you forgot.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    5. Re:I wonder by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Wow, how do I get one of those. I've always wanted a 3GS owner.

      Become Apple, they own many.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:I wonder by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I don't think being an iPhone 3GS owner can quite be considered a form of forced labor.

    7. Re:I wonder by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Is Apple actively trying to destroy any developer relationship that they had

      Awaken from your dreamy state, Apple has never cared about community development. Once more big boys sign on community (individual) developers will disappear from the app store as advertising precedence is given to those who are paying Apple the most money.

      and are they trying to show the community that they are not up to the challenge of hosting an app store?

      No they are trying to show large publishers that they are up to the challenge of delivering their software to users without regardless of type or quality (pushing shovelware for a profit basically).

      This is why every Ibikini app got kicked off but Playboy and Sports Illustrated didn't. I predicted this two years ago when the Iphone was released in Australia, you've got to be pretty naive not to believe it not.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    8. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, but how do I get a female one?

    9. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why I won't drop a couple grand to get xcode in order to write one for mine.

    10. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps his cat owns an iPhone 3Gs? Nah, then he'd be owned by the 3Gs owner. Must be his dog.

    11. Re:I wonder by vijayiyer · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it's simple. If you have an idea, and it fits the terms of service, you're fine. OTOH, if your idea _requires_ the use of private APIs, then maybe you should buy some beer instead.

    12. Re:I wonder by anagama · · Score: 1

      You miss the point, he owns an iPhone 3GS owner -- that does not mean he forces someone to own a 3GS. Indeed, he doesn't mention what he forces his 3GS owner to do for him.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    13. Re:I wonder by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I live in Mauritania, you insensitive clod.

    14. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a software developer that owns an iPhone 3GS owner, and a first generation iPod touch, I feel like I am reminded every day as to why I do not drop $100 and write an application for my own phone.

      We'll just have to suffer the loss of your brilliant contribution with as much courage as we can muster.

    15. Re:I wonder by Cwix · · Score: 1

      What makes you think such an owner exists?

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    16. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, but how do I get a female one?

      Then it will only work if you're female yourself, because everyone knows that Apple is for gays.

    17. Re:I wonder by mikestew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It could be argued that Apple is trying to maintain their developer relationship. I have an app idea, and I know I can't write it without using a private framework or API. So I stick my idea back on the shelf and go work on something else. But then I see other apps with similar functionality, and I know they didn't do it while playing by the rules. At that point I'm a little irked at Apple when the rules apparently don't apply evenly.

      That's not hypothetical, it's happened to me. The Red Laser app used the exact API I needed to use. They get to submit something that becomes best-selling, I didn't bother even creating a new project file. Later, instead of yanking Red Laser, Apple changes their mind and says, "umm, okay, go ahead and use the API". In the end, it's the better thing for Apple to do. Doesn't make me feel better about losing lead time.

    18. Re:I wonder by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      I feel like I am reminded every day as to why I do not drop $100 and write an application for my own phone.

      Umm because everything you think of is already $.99 in the app store already. (thats why I don't)

      As a software developer that owns an iPhone 3GS owner,

      Letting your slaves have iPhones will not end well.

    19. Re:I wonder by Magada · · Score: 1

      How about the case where you have an idea and you don't know and can't find out in advance whether it fits the TOS or not? It's not like these guys set up to break an already-known Apple rule - the fucksticks running the appstore are making these things up as they go along. Classic Catch 22.

      --
      Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
    20. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...if you wink just right, one might follow you home from the bar.

      At the Blue Oyster bar, you don't even have to wink.

    21. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A real software developer would drop $100 in a heart beat. Because a real software developer enjoys writing software. Even if its just for fun, its just $100...

    22. Re:I wonder by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      I have an app idea, and I know I can't write it without using a private framework or API. So I stick my idea back on the shelf and go work on something else. But then I see other apps with similar functionality, and I know they didn't do it while playing by the rules. At that point I'm a little irked at Apple when the rules apparently don't apply evenly.

      Maybe they shouldn't have let in those other apps with similar functionality in the first place. So you wouldn't feel a little irked, and they wouldn't need to relieve your irkiness by removing lots of apps from the app-store.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    23. Re:I wonder by slycrel · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is close to 2 years overdue.

      I have developed a few apps and one that I wanted to develop since launch is a WiFi finder. There is no API for wifi hardware access unless you use apple's non-published APIs. APIs which are strictly forbidden by their SDK license and crap.

      I've been bugged for some time that apps like these, blatantly disregarding the rules, were able to make a bunch of money while the developers who played by the rules were not able to accomplish the same thing. I'm surprised that it took them this long to do so.

      That said, I think it's annoying and stupid to somewhat arbitrarily enforce these rules (or have them in the first place!). The rules are there, it would be very doable to add a technological piece to the app review process to stop this from happening entirely. For some unknown reason they are not, saying one thing and doing another.

    24. Re:I wonder by vijayiyer · · Score: 1

      They did break an already known Apple rule. It just took a while for Apple to figure it out. It has always said right up front that apps aren't allowed to use private APIs. It's not like you can accidentally use a private API thinking it's public.

    25. Re:I wonder by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Actually, no. As TFA (but not TFS) points out, only apps that use a certain private API were pulled. Apple didn't change anything, they just chose this particular point to enforce the already-established rule of developers not using private APIs. Why now? Maybe they only noticed it now. I don't know. But they were entirely within their rights to pull those apps.

      One could ask why the API isn't public. It also isn't on desktop OS X. Perhaps it works in a way that allows the user to have the radio violate the 802.11 spec, which is a very good reason not to let users mess with it. Perhaps it's not frozen and can change at any moment. Perhaps it's simply not very good.


      It's not a case of "Apple is being evil" but rather "Apple has noticed that people were using APIs not deemed fit for public use". The appropriate course of action is not to vow never to buy an Apple product again but to contact Apple and ask for the Apple80211 framework to be made public (or a suitable public wrapper framework to be provided).

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    26. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't buy one, but if you wink just right, one might follow you home from the bar.

      If you are going to rip off a bash.org quote, the least you can do is attribute it.

  6. Why? by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What does Apple gain by removing these things?

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Why? by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      Attention on Slashdot apparently. I would imagine that by now most people expect this as part of the cost of owning an iphone.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    2. Re:Why? by recoiledsnake · · Score: 1

      The feeling of Control. ala 1984.

      --
      This space for rent.
    3. Re:Why? by alen · · Score: 5, Informative

      if it's for using private API's, avoiding the MS bad publicity. everyone worked around MS bugs and Microsoft couldn't make needed changes in their OS's due to developers complaining it was going to cause them to write code. in Vista they had to pull a new anti-virus API because of this.

      Apple is just forcing everyone to follow the rules in the developer agreement. last thing Apple wants is to release an iPhone OS update and to have thousands of apps fail due to private API use and then all the devs will complain how it's Apple's fault

    4. Re:Why? by maxume · · Score: 1

      They don't have to choose between user complaints and making changes to the private apis (used by the apps).

      (Which perhaps isn't the most convincing reason, but it isn't all that crazy)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:Why? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What does Apple gain by removing these things?

      The kind of total control over their platform which they expect to have. I'm reminded of the quote on Twitter the other day from the story about the top developers fired by Activision: "Getting mad at [Apple] for this is like getting mad at an ape for throwing feces. It's just how the beast communicates."

      This kind of control is Apple's MO, and anyone buying their products should either know that, or wouldn't be affected by it (some people do want their choices made for them).

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    6. Re:Why? by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      The thing is, the iPhone OS is short-term, a desktop OS is long-term. Even if design principles of iPhone OS doesn't change much in 2013, hardware will have advanced monumentally to the point where it might be nearly impossible to even run applications.

      What really makes sense on high-capacity devices such as the iPhone is to allow small "emulated" apps to be run in earlier versions of iPhone OS with the older APIs when it detects a version that is untested with the current version.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    7. Re:Why? by bertoelcon · · Score: 1

      Slightly more size on their e-peen (or iPeen since it is Apple).

      --
      Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    8. Re:Why? by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But OS X would not be successful if it was not open. If OS X would not allow various apps that wouldn't be allowed on the iPhone to be on OS X, it would have almost no marketshare.

      It is only a temporary glitch of the failures of all other mobile OSes at the time (Windows Mobile, Symbian, That crappy Java-Based OS, etc), large portions of the phone being paid for by phone carriers and the like that let the iPhone get even a small marketshare. If Google ever gets their act together, Android can easily crush the momentum from the iPhone. If Palm can saturate -all- carriers and not just CDMA ones with WebOS phones, WebOS can get decent marketshare. It would really help Apple if they didn't piss off their developers and users. They might be number one now, but they were number one with the Apple II and look at how quickly they lost that lead.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    9. Re:Why? by alen · · Score: 1

      this is a cell phone. in the USA when your 2 year contract is up you junk it and buy a new one. you don't treasure it like a Mac like the crazy people on MacRumors do

    10. Re:Why? by mysidia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That would be all well and good if they were providing complete public frameworks, so that private ones would not be needed for any valid use case.

      But it's not... these apps can't possibly be implemented using the public frameworks

      So, Apple is essentially stifling their platform.

      Better to have some apps broken by an update of the OS later, than to have those apps never written at all, probably.

    11. Re:Why? by smash · · Score: 1
      Apple has done hardware transitions before with seamless app compatibility. 68k to ppc, ppc to intel... so long as the app is well behaved it has worked. Which is what they're trying to enforce here - well behaved apps that use published iphone APIs.

      Yes it sucks that these apps have been pulled - hopefully apple do the right thing and put the functionality they are using into the official public API.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    12. Re:Why? by nutznboltz · · Score: 1

      So instead of devs will complaining how it's Apple's fault that an update broke their apps they have users complaining that it's Apple's fault they pulled the apps. What an improvement!

    13. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When your phone costs as much as a PC, you might.

    14. Re:Why? by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

      What does Apple gain by removing these things?

      More carrier lock-in?

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    15. Re:Why? by jo42 · · Score: 1, Informative

      the iPhone OS is short-term

      I'll repeat this fact one more time: iPhone OS and core Mac OS X share over 80% of their source code (see WWDC'09 sessions). The major difference being the UI on top of the core OS. For the iPad, Apple is pulling even more bits from Mac OS X and putting them into iPhone OS 3.2.

      Why no Mac OS X UI or multi-tasking? Desktop UI's make absolutely no sense on a small form factor multi-touch based mobile device. If you want to get a taste of what multi-tasking on a smartphone hardware spec device would be, install Windows 95 on a 600 MHz Pentium III with 128 MB of RAM and a 8 GB hard drive. Disable the swap file. Then install Firefox and a few other small productivity apps and run them at the same time.

      Also the issue isn't public APIs (Apple's modus operandi is to keep those around for a while, deprecate them, and a few years later drop them). The issue is private APIs that the developers of those apps had to use since there is, unfortunately, no similar public API exposed. Those specifically are verboten per the agreement that you sign with Apple.

    16. Re:Why? by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Informative

      Those would've been phenomenal specs for a windows 95 box....

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    17. Re:Why? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you want to get a taste of what multi-tasking on a smartphone hardware spec device would be ...

      ... you can check out any WinMo smartphone from, oh, 5 years ago, which could handle that just fine. Perfectly smooth? No. Working? Yes. Useful? Damn yes.

      And today, with all competitors offering perfectly usable multitasking, this argument is dead in its tracks.

    18. Re:Why? by schon · · Score: 1

      ... go look at an Android phone, which seems to have managed it just fine, even though everything is running in a non-JIT Java RE.

    19. Re:Why? by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      If you want to get a taste of what multi-tasking on a smartphone hardware spec device would be, install Windows 95 on a 600 MHz Pentium III with 128 MB of RAM and a 8 GB hard drive.

      Windows 95 would run blazingly fast on that hardware. My Win95 box was a 90 MHz Pentium (1st-gen) with 32 MB of RAM and a hard drive of 1.2GB or so. Running Word and Internet Explorer and Calculator and Explorer all at the same time worked fine, provided we're talking about versions of these programs from 1996 or so.

      Disable the swap file.

      Why the hell would you do that? There's absolutely no reason you couldn't use some of the iPhones's storage as swap space. Flash will wear out eventually, but it takes a long time with modern chips, and with modern wear-leveling algorithms every time you write to the pagefile it would go someplace else in the physical storage, so no specific cells would wear out particularly fast. That's leaving aside the fact that for the 1995-1998 era, 128MB was a ton of RAM by desktop standards; my RAM plus pagefile *might* have been that big, but probably not (that would be a pagefile 3x the saize of physical RAM on my old Win95 box)

      Then install Firefox and a few other small productivity apps and run them at the same time.

      Ignoring the fact that Firefox didn't exist back then (and current versions won't run on Win95 anyhow), see my above comment about multitasking on a system with about 1/4 the hardware capabilities. Substitute Netscape for IE, if it makes you feel better. You wouldn't use modern desktop software on an iPhone anyhow (did you think that MS Office Mobile is simply an ARM port of desktop Office?). If I want to have Pandora playing in the background, be browsing RSS feeds in the foreground, and have a couple web pages open for when I'm done with the RSS, then that would be *entirely* within the capability of the iPhone's hardware.

      Hell, ever played with a Nokia N8x0? Physically about the size of a first-gen iPhone, 400MHz ARM CPU, not much RAM (96MB?) although it can use a SD card as swap, and it runs Linuk (literally, a modified Debian GNU/Linux called Maemo). Web browsing (with Flash even) while playing music/chatting on Skype and reading a PDF/checking mail all at once, totally possible (although the Flash might drag on the CPU, depening on how demanding it is). The default X window manager only displays one application at a time, but the others are still running and can be switched to with two taps of a finger.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    20. Re:Why? by Draek · · Score: 1

      Hell, they would've been great for a Windows 2000 box and even passable ones for XP if it were not for the scarce RAM.

      Kids these days are far too used to these multi-core 3 Ghz monstrosities to have a good perspective on what machines can do.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    21. Re:Why? by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      What does Apple gain by removing these things?

      A reliable operating system. Although I'm betting this came to be due to someone using those "private APIs" poorly. Sloppy coding and an API that connects to a radio spell huge battery draw. I'm certain power use and abuse started this whole thing. Several of the apps were all using the same third party framework that did location tracing using wi-fi. Apple has made it clear it doesn't want apps using location without the users consent or for frivolous uses. Once again I will bet this is related to battery draw.

    22. Re:Why? by NiteShaed · · Score: 1

      If you want to get a taste of what multi-tasking on a smartphone hardware spec device would be, install Windows 95 on a 600 MHz Pentium III with 128 MB of RAM and a 8 GB hard drive.

      Yeah, you could do that, but it'd probably be easier to just go to Best Buy and try a WebOS or Android phone. Oddly though, multitasking seems to work just fine on those, so I guess that wouldn't really help in proving your point....

      --
      Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
  7. Fouling the well by garethw · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I think this is called pissing in the well from which you drink. I really don't get why Apple is trying so hard to alienate developers. / Android user

    --
    garethw
    1. Re:Fouling the well by Microlith · · Score: 1

      I really don't get why Apple is trying so hard to alienate developers.

      Because they have a massive, dedicated user base and a store like no other. Generally, they can count on the developers sucking it up and coming back, or someone taking their place.

    2. Re:Fouling the well by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Generally, they can count on the developers sucking it up and coming back, or someone taking their place.

      Agreed, but then again the iPhone ecosystem is a fairly new model for software. The total control that Apple demands hasn't really been tested before, most of the old-school Mac hackers are guys who really did have total control over their hardware and were able to tinker with whatever they wanted in the Mac. That's just not the case any more, so I'm interested to see how new developers who come into this model react to it. I'm willing to bet that there aren't going to be a lot of people learning to program on a Mac, the tinkerers are much more likely to go to Linux, it would seem.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    3. Re:Fouling the well by garethw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're probably right. I bought a MacBook last year (having used Debian for the last 9 years), and while I don't dislike it, I'm not keen to buy more Apple products given dumb shenanigans like this. So they are alienating some users.

      --
      garethw
    4. Re:Fouling the well by falconwolf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're probably right. I bought a MacBook last year (having used Debian for the last 9 years), and while I don't dislike it, I'm not keen to buy more Apple products given dumb shenanigans like this. So they are alienating some users.

      So don't use those products you have to put up with these shenanigans. I'm typing this on my MacBook Pro, when I replace it the replacement will probably another MBP or its replacement, and if Apple were to release a bigger iPad (say 17") that runs the full OS X like my MBP does I may get one. I might also get a Mac Pro, but I do not plan on getting an iPhone or iPod.

      Actually I plan on setting up my MBP to dualboot, OS X and Ubuntu, and if I were to get a Mac Pro I'd do the same with it. Now if Apple were to get as restrictive with Macs as they are with iPhones and iPads I'd move over to Linux compleatly.

      Falcon

    5. Re:Fouling the well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they aren't. In this case it's shitty developers pissing in Apple's well. There are reserved/private APIs that as an iPhone developer, you aren't supposed to fuck with. Partially because they let Apple (and only Apple) do cool things (and that reason sucks), and partially because those APIs are subject to change.

      There are plenty of other WiFi finders in the Apple Store that haven't been removed. It looks like the only ones that were removed were screwing with those APIs.

      No big surprise.

    6. Re:Fouling the well by TRRosen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      , but then again the iPhone ecosystem is a fairly new model for software.

      NEW? lets see Atari Nintendo Playstation Xbox Sega .... All these systems required every piece of software to meet the system makers requirements and limitations. This is not new.

    7. Re:Fouling the well by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Atari, Nintendo, Playstation, Xbox, and Sega were not actively courting and promoting their developer communities, and all software for those platforms was of a single category: games. Unless you consider the iPhone a gaming console, which it's not, it's not a very good comparison. The iPhone developer ecosystem and the Playstation developer ecosystem are entirely different. Both of them have total control, sure, but Sony isn't trying to get a bunch of independent developers to write software for their platform. Publishers who already have hefty bank accounts approach Sony, Sony doesn't need independent developers. Apple does.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    8. Re:Fouling the well by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      Soooo Apple is more controlling because they allow apps that aren't games and independent developers. Thats like saying something is more expensive because it costs less.
      By the way nearly 100 million devices in use and over 1 billion apps delivered means Apple doesn't need independent developers either. Apple could easily cut them off and just license to the big boys but they don't and you think they should be berated for that.

    9. Re:Fouling the well by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Soooo Apple is more controlling because they allow apps that aren't games and independent developers.

      Good lord.

      No, that's not why they're more controlling. That's why iPhone is different. I.E. untested. Get it?

      Apple could easily cut them off and just license to the big boys but they don't and you think they should be berated for that.

      Thanks for trying to tell me what I think, but no, that's not what I think. That's not what I said either.

      Good god, only 2 posts in and I'm already tired of trying to argue with you.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  8. Thank you Apple! by headkase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm so glad you make all the hard decisions for me! Would you like to cast my next vote for me?? Oh yeah, when I actually succumb to mobile devices they will be open. This is like Microsoft telling you what software you can install on Windows! Is this the future? Twenty years from now Mac's will only be able to get applications from Apple's approved store? Yeah, I'm not gonna help with that.

    --
    Shh.
    1. Re:Thank you Apple! by calmofthestorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Until all mobile phones suck a lot less or go down in price a lot, I'm not getting one. $2500 for two years? No thanks. Even if the devices available were polished, beautiful, powerful, and bug-free. And they're not.

      Still it's only a matter of time. I said the same thing about cell phones, and then prices dropped and coverage improved, and now I have one.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    2. Re:Thank you Apple! by Cosgrach · · Score: 1

      Beware those who would deny you Information. For in their heart they dream themselves your master.

      Amen to that brother.

      --
      Why is it that most of the people that I encounter seem to have been shat from the Sphincter of Mediocrity?
    3. Re:Thank you Apple! by agrif · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This is like Microsoft telling you what software you can install on Windows!

      Just so we're clear here, it'd be like if Microsoft could decide what software it wanted to host on it's servers, and provide a shop framework for. Which, last time I checked, they have every right to do.

      There is a difference here, obviously. For most people (those who haven't jailbroken), Apple's store is the only place to get software. Apple has to approve this software. But since when is this any different than the software released for the xbox 360 or any other game console? At least Apple has a reasonable excuse: their phone has to work on a cell network, and it needs to have restrictions placed on software. Game consoles have no such excuse.

      I'm not saying it's not stupid, I'm just saying that it's their right to do this. I don't see why people can be so uppity about the iPhone when there are plenty of other closed systems to complain about that have been around for much longer.

    4. Re:Thank you Apple! by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Twenty years from now Mac's will only be able to get applications from Apple's approved store?.

      And don't forget they can be removed without notice or reason.

    5. Re:Thank you Apple! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Twenty years from now Mac's will only be able to get applications from Apple's approved store? Yeah, I'm not gonna help with that.

      Twenty, try two. Apple is going to move its laptops and desktops away from X86 and into ARM and have them use the iphone OS. Why? control, apple hates the hackintoshes and even jailbroken iphones, with every update there is something that stops hackintoshes or jailbroken devices from working correctly. Yes there are developers who specialise in getting around this but it's pretty clear the vendor is fighting you tooth and nail for control of your devices.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:Thank you Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other closed systems don't sell "we have thousands of apps for you" as feature. Other closed systems doesn't sell ""you can extend your device by installing apps" as a feature.

    7. Re:Thank you Apple! by recoiledsnake · · Score: 1

      WTF is this nonsense, there's so many phones out there that run on a cell network without taking 30% cut of all software sold, just see all WinMO and Android phones.

      --
      This space for rent.
    8. Re:Thank you Apple! by bh_doc · · Score: 1

      On something tangential: "mobile phones" versus "cell phones". Where I live, "mobile phone" is synonymous with the (less common) "cell phone" - this is a well known difference in language that's been around for a long while. Its interesting to see you use the two terms with different meanings, when I would still say both devices are "mobile" phones. Considering that what you call "mobile" phones will gradually supercede "cell" phones, do you suppose we are seeing the convergence of language, here?

    9. Re:Thank you Apple! by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      I'm not really sure. I will tell you I'm 22 and grew up a nerd in Ann Arbor, MI if you want your first data point for a survey;)

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    10. Re:Thank you Apple! by agrif · · Score: 1

      I'm not defending that argument, I'm just pointing out that they at least have a reason that it's possible to argue against. There are so many systems out there without even that, so why do people hate Apple so much?

    11. Re:Thank you Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2500?? What are you buying/using or where the h*ll do you live?

      I have to pay a grand total of 19€ per month (+ 9.80€ per month for UNLIMITED internet) for my HTC Hero. INCLUDING all calls within the service provider's network. That's about 690€ in 2 years for ALL calls, internet activity AND my Hero. Oh, and the internet is available for up to five devices - including my laptop via a provided-for-free huawei 3G modem - simultaneously.

    12. Re:Thank you Apple! by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      FYI, you can write and run your own software on an Xbox 360 (or a Zune, if you're so inclined) using XNA (C# framework for games, although usable for non-games too). It's a high-level language and you only have access to those parts of the system that the framework exposes, but if you can compile it, you're allowed to run it. Microsoft even hosts homebrew Xbox 360 games in an online catalog/store, if their developers choose to pay the $100 fee (much like Apple's dev kit, except the actual SDK is free).

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    13. Re:Thank you Apple! by Draek · · Score: 1

      Because its been the standard in consoles for far too long. Back in the days of the original NES, older C64 and Atari players *did* deride it for the same reasons, but eventually the fact that Nintendo marketed almost exclusively to children made it easier to dismiss it as a mere 'toy' instead of a real, useful machine, and their success drowned what little criticism remained. In contrast, WinMo and JavaME developers haven't even been pushed out of the market yet let alone been gone long enough to be forgotten, so obviously the criticism will be much louder.

      Furthermore, I don't give a shit about whether it's their right or not to do so. I only care that *I* don't like it and it is my right to voice my displeasure with it.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    14. Re:Thank you Apple! by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      yeah I remember buying winMo apps from there store before Apple ....er wait they didn't have one..But I could buy Apps for my phone for only $5 a month and they stopped working as soon as my phone contract did.

      Remember this the only reason there are usable apps on any phone is because Apple made the iPhone. Before that no android. WM and palm Sucked ass.

    15. Re:Thank you Apple! by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      Twenty years from now Mac's will only be able to get applications from Apple's approved store?

      This may be closer than you think:

      http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/05/apple-seeking-to-stimulate-mac-development-with-99-mac-dev-program/

      Though this is just a first step toward an iPhone-like developer model, and I suspect they'll just introduce a mac store as an add-on first of all, and allow apps to be released in other ways, at least at first.

      What scares me about this though is that Apple are gradually being sucked into their own hype; that only end-to-end control of the experience by Apple is the way to ensure quality. This in spite of the obvious failure in quality control in their store and the many inconsistencies in applying their policy. If there were some other option for getting apps onto the platform it wouldn't matter as much, but of course there isn't on iPhone.

      This particular example probably isn't a good one, as the apps in question did use private APIs knowingly, which frankly they should not have done and is explicitly disallowed in the developer agreement. However it does bring into focus Apple's lacklustre quality control, ad-hoc and arbitrary approval process, and abuse of their powerful position as platform makers.

      With the banning of some porn apps but not others, abuse of their power as arbiters on the app store to force out competitors (Google Voice), their casual indifference to the plight of pulled third party app developers, while leaving all sorts of crap on the app store, and their lawsuit against HTC for bullshit software patents (which makes them look like a fearful monopolist), Apple is in danger of becoming the next evil empire.

      The hypocrisy is astounding, and is starting to make long-term Mac users rethink their commitment to both platforms, which are headed in a direction which is anti ethical to user and developer interests. A certain amount of control-freakery is good for the platform in that it keeps the hardware supported tight and the software selection high quality, but Apple have consistently overstepped the mark on iPhone OS and are now starting to abuse their power over the platform to their own ends. Jobs seems to be genuinely affronted that other platforms have 'stolen' their ideas, though of course he lives by the credo of 'great artists steal' himself and is not afraid to lift ideas from other sources.

      As an iPhone/Mac user and developer, Android is looking a lot more interesting by the day, in spite of all its warts.

    16. Re:Thank you Apple! by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      That's about as likely as a slashdot user reading the article.

      There is no evidence to suggest, and if fact the opposite is really the case) that Apple are going to move their main computers to the iPhone OS.

      Just because the iPhone and iPad feature a closed, walled garden approach does not mean that the rest of the hardware is going to follow suit. They are different products.

      Microsoft's control over the Xbox360 platform is pretty closed - that means that they are going to make Windows 7 just like that! I know it's true! Someone on slashdot said it!

    17. Re:Thank you Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember this the only reason there are usable apps on any phone is because Apple made the iPhone. Before that no android.

      Google acquired Android, Inc in July 2005. The iPhone was released Jan 2007. Are you still sure there would be no Android without the iPhone?

    18. Re:Thank you Apple! by Guy+Harris · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This may be closer than you think:

      http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/05/apple-seeking-to-stimulate-mac-development-with-99-mac-dev-program/

      Though this is just a first step toward an iPhone-like developer model,

      By which I presume you mean "a model where they only charge you $99/year, don't have multiple tiers of developer, and perhaps don't offer hardware discounts". There are a number of ways in which the Mac OS X and iPhone OS developer programs differ; the fact that they're getting rid of one of them (higher price) does not ipso facto mean that the long-term plan is to make the Mac OS X developer program exactly like the iPhone OS program, down to the app store and restrictions.

      What scares me about this though is that Apple are gradually being sucked into their own hype; that only end-to-end control of the experience by Apple is the way to ensure quality. This in spite of the obvious failure in quality control in their store and the many inconsistencies in applying their policy.

      Which is inexcusable, as Apple have had over 10 years worth of iPhone experience and should know how to do the app checking by now. Oh, wait....

      (Yes, it should've been better from the start. I suspect it'll get better over time.

      And, yes, I think there should be an option to allow installation of non-App Store apps, with a big pop-up warning that "IF YOU FLIP THIS SWITCH, AND YOUR PHONE TURNS INTO A BRICK OR GETS BROKEN INTO OR SOME APP STOPS WORKING AFTER A SOFTWARE UPDATE OR..., AND YOU BRING IT TO THE GENIUS BAR TO GET IT FIXED, WE WILL TAKE GREAT DELIGHT IN YOUR MISERY AND LAUGH YOU OUT OF THE STORE", so that you're not stuck with approved apps and they're not stuck with supporting apps that haven't gone through the approval process or devices running those apps. I like contracts that bind both parties, like API contracts - "you use only the documented routines, and use them only in the documented fashion, and we won't change them so that they stop working that way"; as somebody who's designed and implemented various program interfaces, I like them a lot better than, say, "I get to do what I want with your libraries and you have to support me".)

    19. Re:Thank you Apple! by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the iPad and iPhone have no such restrictions, yet they are crippled by the same policy.

  9. Time to go Android! by thescooterman · · Score: 0

    I've been using Android for a while now, and except for the whole ' evil android overlords ' thing... I love it! The apps rock, and you can have what you want, not what someone else does[n't] want you to have.

  10. Timothy is at it again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Three apps get removed and suddenly it becomes "Apple removes Wi-Fi finders from app store".

    Like the adult apps topic of a few days ago, let's not panic.

    * in case you still don't know, Apple has added a new category for those apps.

  11. Even Yahoo Maps is gone by recoiledsnake · · Score: 1

    PlaceEngine developer Koozyt says other apps that use its technology have also been removed, including Yahoo! Maps for the iPhone.

    If big companies are not spared what about the individual developers?

    --
    This space for rent.
    1. Re:Even Yahoo Maps is gone by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Funny

      If big companies are not spared what about the individual developers?

      I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they aren't spared either.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  12. As a life long Apple user by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Informative

    All I can say is get a real phone with options you like eg android, nokia 9x ect.
    Apple makes a great OS, some great hardware.
    Just stay away from the DRM junk and itoys.
    Or help port a real OS to it.
    As amazon showed with 1984, MS with win 7 mobile and now Apple shows, your just a consumer renting space on their their vision of the world.
    Time to disconnect Apple and buy or use/write a real mobile OS.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:As a life long Apple user by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      I'm missing something here... why the reference to Windoes Phone 7 (or whatever the hell it's called)? MS has added restrictions to OEMs/distributors, but from the sound of things the owner of the phone can still run just about anything they want on there, MS-approved or not.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    2. Re:As a life long Apple user by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      Nobody wants a "real mobile OS" 99.9% of people don't want to ever know there phone or computer has an OS. They just want to get their email, view a few web pages and waste some time playing a game every once in a while. Guess what else 99% of people never replace there phone or laptops battery.

      Don't expect Apple to design for geeks. Grandma doesn't give a frack about private frameworks and little billy has no ideal what an API is.

    3. Re:As a life long Apple user by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/03/winmob-65-to-windows-phone-7-series-upgrades-to-be-rare.ars
      "The bad news is that it comes at the loss of many of its current faithful Windows Mobile customers."

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  13. Re:filter by a_nonamiss · · Score: 2, Funny

    I believe you may be thinking of Engadget.

    --
    -Arthur
    Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
  14. Private Frameworks, people. by pclminion · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apple has NEVER permitted the use of private frameworks in iPhone apps. My company had to rewrite an app we were trying to deploy because we were using some undocumented features for still frame capture from the camera device. We almost made it through the authorization process, then Apple shot us down at the last second because of it. We had to wait a few more minor releases before the functionality we needed was exposed through an approved interface. It had nothing to do with our application, but rather, the way it was implemented.

    In general, the use of undocumented APIs is frowned upon throughout the industry, as it makes for flaky application and reverse-vendor-lockin, when an extremely popular application relies on undocumented APIs, the APIs change, then people come bitching to the platform manufacturer for "breaking" their applications. There's nothing weird about this, whatsoever. Chill out, folks.

    1. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by GaryPatterson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sadly this critical part of the story is being submerged under the usual "Apple is the great Satan" Slashdot groupthink. It seems to be an easy road to be modded up if a poster makes a short criticism of Apple, even if they don't know any of the facts.

    2. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Apple has NEVER permitted the use of private frameworks in iPhone apps. * They allow such things in their own apps but if Microsoft did such a thing /. would be melting down from the nerd rage

    3. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by pclminion · · Score: 1

      *Apple has NEVER permitted the use of private frameworks in iPhone apps. * They allow such things in their own apps but if Microsoft did such a thing /. would be melting down from the nerd rage

      Wow, a vendor using their own code? Shocking! What the hell are you smoking?

    4. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your user number is low enough for you to have been here when /. blew up about Microsoft using internal APIs that no one else knew about. IIRC such actions got them in a little bit of legal trouble.

      But since it is apple we are perfectly happy with letting apple tell us what we can and can't do with our own hardware.

      Bet you are a BIG FSF / GPL support though.

    5. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If people use undocumented APIs it just means that Apple is also failing on the API front. Private API bad! Private API bad!! Well sure, but let's look at why people need to use it - it's because we aren't offering a published API that does what they want to do.

      Not providing rich enough APIs, not deciding upfront what applications are allowed to do and what they are not, then not catching apps that use private API and approving those apps and finally abruptly removing the apps from the store - to me that's atrocious. Sane people will stay away from making any "bets" on the Apple store.

    6. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by pclminion · · Score: 1

      If people use undocumented APIs it just means that Apple is also failing on the API front. Private API bad! Private API bad!! Well sure, but let's look at why people need to use it - it's because we aren't offering a published API that does what they want to do.

      Back to the example I gave from my own company, it was our complaints (and probably those of other developers) that got the API we were using opened up for official use. I wasn't on that project, but from what I heard, we had official access to those frameworks within a couple of months. Before trying to go through the back door, you can try asking.

    7. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by pclminion · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your user number is low enough for you to have been here when /. blew up about Microsoft using internal APIs that no one else knew about. IIRC such actions got them in a little bit of legal trouble.

      That was a lot of beers in the past. Perhaps you could refresh my memory and we can actually have a conversation about it. I vaguely remember something of it, but I was using Linux and as such, didn't really care about Microsoft's monopolist practices since I had already escaped them.

      But since it is apple we are perfectly happy with letting apple tell us what we can and can't do with our own hardware.

      First of all, Apple has nowhere near a monopoly position on the smart phone market, despite what marketing hype might imply. That makes their situation quite different than Microsoft's.

      Second, we are talking about applications which are sold through an online store which is owned, managed, and hosted by Apple. It's not unreasonable, to me, to expect that Apple might want a fairly tight degree of control over that, since the impression given by the store and the apps themselves reflects directly on Apple. I've spoken to iPhone users who don't even understand that the applications aren't made by Apple.

      Third, Apple isn't telling you what you can do with your hardware. You can develop, install, and run anything you want on your phone. I do not see how phone ownership automatically grants you the right to access any application you want to through Apple's storefront. Your argument is based on the principle of ownership and so surely you must respect Apple's ownership over their own storefront.

      Bet you are a BIG FSF / GPL support though.

      I am. I have a couple of Mac Minis which I bought mostly because they were extremely small and could fit in the corner of a small desk. I run Linux on them. I don't own an iPhone. Full disclosure...

    8. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      Apple have always claimed the private frameworks are subject to change, and so including them in a third-party app is a terrible thing to do. When Apple make a change for their own reasons, they'll break the app or introduce undesired behaviours.

      If they use their own APIs, the issue is removed, as they know the changes and if their new API breaks their apps or their OS, they will know either through dependencies or testing. It's their problem.

      When Apple review apps, they're meant to check for private APIs and reject the app at that point if they find any evidence that they're being used. This whole story seems to be that they failed to check properly up-front and are picking the ball back up by advising the developers that private APIs were used and removing the apps from the store.

      The side-issue is that there may be no API for the functionality the developers want, which is why they went down the path of private APIs and all the risks their use entails. Apple could have managed this better, but the developers can't claim innocence on the private API thing. It's been made pretty clear by Apple.

      As for relating this to Microsoft's use of private APIs in the past... well there may be some similarities if Apple are using the APIs to lock competing products out of the market. That case can be made, but Apple don't provide WiFi stumbler functionality so it's not a strong case.

    9. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly this critical part of the story is being submerged under the usual "Apple is the great Satan" Slashdot groupthink..

      How nice, uh!? We were all so sick and tired of the "Microsoft is the great Satan" Slashdot groupthink.

      Besides with the smarter technical level of Apple, it's all more fun now. With M$ was all so boringly plain...

    10. Re:Private Frameworks, people. by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      That's great, but the correct way to handle apps that slipped through the cracks would seem to be:

      1) Contact that developers
      2) Give them X weeks to rewrite the app to fit the standard
      3) Expedite the approval process for effected apps
      4) Update the API specification, removing any apps which have not yet been updated.

      Instead, it appears that Apple immediately removed the apps from the AppStore. As an iPhone owner, this kind of.. abusive treatment of application developers and app owners is unacceptable.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
  15. "Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It can be said that it is Kafkaesque when a reason isn't given but others with the same capabilities are allowed.

    Falcon

    1. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by ADRA · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you refer to his novels, 'Kafkaesque' would most likely denote the endless pain and futility of dealing with an organization where the participant has no idea what hoops to jump through until they are prevented without achieving them.

      Kafka used the individual's ignorance of the system as a weapon that is used to dis-empower him. Even the most crazily elaborate set of obstacles can be overcome with planning and diligence if you're aware of them, but in Kafka's novels, there was always a new challenge to overcome whenever the previous one was achieved. This ultimate futility was the driving theme of many of his stories.

      Dictionary quote:
      adjective
      Complex or illogical in a bizarre, surreal, or nightmarish manner.

      In either case, the original poster of the phrase miss-appropriated it into their post to express what would be best served just dropping the word and leaving the sentence in tact without "active enforcement of ever-shifting, secret rules against applications" would have served just fine.

      --
      Bye!
    2. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by falconwolf · · Score: 4, Informative

      Dictionary quote:
      adjective
      Complex or illogical in a bizarre, surreal, or nightmarish manner.

      Which describes Apple's actions.

      Falcon

    3. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by JustOK · · Score: 1

      you misspelled miss-appropriated therefore your whole argument is lame and misvalidified. Keep trying.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    4. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by pantherace · · Score: 1

      So World of Warcraft is Kafkaesque?

    5. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      What "organization?" Kafka's most famous work is about a guy that wakes up one morning to find he's turning into a cockroach. No reason is ever offered, no "organization" was there to ignore his appeals. The rest of the man's life was so extraordinarily banal that he should have wished for death if something as diverting as turning into an insect hadn't happened to him, and he manages to take that experience and find the boring in it as well.

      It was later made into the film, "The Fly" iirc.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    6. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by abigor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Actually, The Trial is what gave birth to the term "Kafkaesque" and definitely has to do with an organisation. It is a very famous book.

      2. The movie The Fly has nothing to do with Kafka. It's about a guy and a teleportation device.

    7. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 4, Funny

      That does it. I need to find a cockroach costume for the Apple Developer Conference this year.

    8. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So World of Warcraft is Kafkaesque?

      Totally.

      Actually, it brings Camus' working of the Sisyphus story to mind. Running around doing a meaningless activity over and over and over and...

      yet never quite getting there.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by allseason+radial · · Score: 1

      Wow, while reading the second paragraph of your description of Kafka's stories, I thought,"Geez, I've had nightmares like that!" Then you provided the definition. Well done, sir.

    10. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      That would be so awesome...

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    11. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by binarybum · · Score: 1

      good point. The movie "A bug's Life" was actually based on the Kafka story.

      --
      ôó
    12. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by ByteGuerrilla · · Score: 1
      --

      A block of code, sufficiently well-written, is indistinguishable from magick.

    13. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not a reference to The Fly, at least not directly. It's a reference to Kafka's Metamorphosis, and the character of Gregor Samza. Now, The Fly itself was an updated version of metamorphosis.

      You may now remove your foot from your mouth.

    14. Re:"Kafkaesque" = "boring" as far as I can tell. by prichardson · · Score: 1

      That was a great comment. You and people like you truly make Slashdot worth reading.

      Thanks for lurking here.

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
  16. Great News !! by ianare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is great news !! This is the only way developers and users will learn never to trust a closed platform. Hopefully this starts pissing people off enough to go towards Android, or preferably the only truly open smartphone OS : Maemo / Meego. So I say, please Apple, remove more useful apps !!

    1. Re:Great News !! by matrixskp · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      learn never to trust a closed platform.

      Why do people insist on regurgitating the same inaccurate crap all the time?

      iPhone OS is NOT a closed platform, for $160 I get a world class development environment and I can install and run what ever I want onto my iPhone or any of the devices owned by my co-workers or friends. I also get a world wide distribution network for Apps I choose to sell.

      If I choose to jail break my device (which is a 10 minute process) I can install and run thousands of apps created by others around the world (cydia etc) including ones which use custom API's and undocumented features, they may feature backdoors, trojans and steal my credit card details, but it is open!

      So Apple wants to make sure the Apps people sell in the iTunes store actually work, and will continue to work next week? Good on them, its obviously working for the consumers.

      iTunes Store does not equal iPhone OS.

    2. Re:Great News !! by pclminion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is the only way developers and users will learn never to trust a closed platform.

      As a developer, I like the enforcement of the "no private frameworks" rule. I don't want to have to compete against other developers who can implement things I can't implement, because they are willing to stay up for three weeks reverse-engineering some undocumented interface. It's kind of like doping in the Olympics. If everybody was allowed to do it, soon it would be impossible to be competitive UNLESS you were doing it, and the result would be an incredible mess where every application was doing things using undocumented interfaces. And on top of that, Apple would have to be extremely careful whenever they want to alter their "private" APIs because it would risk breaking a huge number of applications -- and guess who the end user is going to complain to? (Hint -- not the application developer.)

      If you don't like the restrictions, fine. Jailbreak your phone. Or choose a different platform. I'd rather work with something stable where the playing field is somewhat level.

    3. Re:Great News !! by ianare · · Score: 1

      iPhone OS is NOT a closed platform

      iPhone OS is not open source, furthermore its applications can only be obtained from a single source. If THAT'S not a closed platform, I don't know what is.

      If I choose to jail break my device

      Fail. You should not have to resort to voiding your warranty and possibly bricking your device simply to do what any other smartphone out there can do.

      BTW I say this after having owned the original iPhone, and jailbreaking it. I tried it, and hated all the artificial limitations.

      But whatever floats your boat.

    4. Re:Great News !! by ianare · · Score: 1

      As an OSS developer, I can't stand a platform that won't let me see the sources of the framework, nevermind private APIs. And although I agree with your point about hacking and reverse engineering a platform, the solution is simple : break the internal API every now and then as needed, but provide a stable API for apps to hook into. This way a developer will think twice about doing such things, as it means their app could very well break come next update.

    5. Re:Great News !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      They're well on their way to keeping me from buying an iPad. I was all set to buy it when it became available but they're determined to discourage me.

    6. Re:Great News !! by ThePengwin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't want to have to compete against other developers who can implement things I can't implement, because they are willing to stay up for three weeks reverse-engineering some undocumented interface.

      You don't want to compete with people who put in more effort into coding their apps than you?

      .....what?

    7. Re:Great News !! by pclminion · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You don't want to compete with people who put in more effort into coding their apps than you?

      No, what I want is to not have to be an expert in reverse engineering in order to compete with other developers.

    8. Re:Great News !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      iPhone OS is not open source

      Agreed that the OS is not open source, but your saying closed platform, isn't that different?

      or does platform = OS now? When I think platform I think OS X with Xcode connected to an iPhone or running an iPad simulator.

      furthermore its applications can only be obtained from a single source. If THAT'S not a closed platform, I don't know what is.

      Sorry, but you need to check your facts - You can download apps from LOTS of other places apart from iTunes, Apple just forces you to make a conscious decision to do this, probably to avoid "I downloaded this app and now I'm powned" type support complaints. Thats why I stated iPhone OS does not equal iTunes App Store. You can also share your source code online and let other people use your code (creative commons etc) or download and build your apps using source code from others. The fact is you don't need the OS to be open source if the development environment gives you access to all the great features like GPS, compass etc.

      You can do everything you want to do with out ever accessing the iTunes store. ie build your own App and run it on your phone... distribute your code to others to let them do the same, just forget about the iTunes store.

      Fail. You should not have to resort to voiding your warranty and possibly bricking your device simply to do what any other smartphone out there can do.

      If I have a problem with my jailbroken iPhone... I just plug it in, restore to original condition return to store... I'm still covered by warranty.

      If you think of it like this it may make more sense: iPhone starts all ready for average consumer and you need to do some tech work to unlock it and open it up, Android starts open and you need to do some tech work to make it usable by the average person. Take your pick.

    9. Re:Great News !! by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      the solution is simple : break the internal API every now and then as needed, but provide a stable API for apps to hook into. This way a developer will think twice about doing such things, as it means their app could very well break come next update.

      If by "provide a stable API for apps to hook into" you mean "provide a stable API for everything that you could do with an internal API", there's no point in the internal APIs, and you're now required to, for everything that a built-in app can do, design an API you're willing to live with and support for a while. I would not assume that's necessarily "simple".

    10. Re:Great News !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a user, I dislike the enforcement of this, because I do wireless security audits for a living and WiFiFoFum has been my favorite app and has saved me hundreds of hours over the last few years. I will be ditching my iPhone in order to keep using this application, unfortunately.

      Perhaps publicising the framework and simply reminding people that certain updates may break functionality would be the best approach, eh?

      I dunno... Killed the only app that gets used more than mail and phone on my iPhone. That's pretty weak as far as I'm concerned.

    11. Re:Great News !! by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      its not closed its moderated. In if you think thats still evil go to any unmoderated newsgroup and count the number of spam postings.

      Is Linux open? NO! They don'y just let anybody add code to the kernel project do they! There are people who look at submitted code and CONTROL what gets in and what doesn't. They must be evil too huh.

      And what about those control freaks that keep telling how fast to drive in a school zone or how much I can drink before I drive. Screw them If I want to operated an open air unregulated nuclear reaction in my backyard thats my decision damit.

    12. Re:Great News !! by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Is Linux open? NO! They don'y just let anybody add code to the kernel project do they! There are people who look at submitted code and CONTROL what gets in and what doesn't. They must be evil too huh.

      Sure they do. They don't have to accept your patches of course, but nobody stops you from changing anything in the kernel. If they don't like it, you can still redistribute it on your own, and even make devices based on it.

      Android for instance -- the kernel devs don't like Google's modifications as they currently are, so they're not going in the official kernel just yet. But that isn't stopping Google from maintaining their own version, and from making phones with it.

      Also, IMO there's a misunderstanding here in the closed vs OSS development models. In closed development there's an ultimate authority that decides what goes in the code. In OSS anybody can run their fork, and the "kernel project" as in what's hosted on kernel.org is only a de facto standard. It's official only by consensus. Somebody doing a better job could cause the developers to switch over, like what happened with XFree86. Or there may be no single standard at all, forks can exist at the same time, like the different BSDs for instance.

    13. Re:Great News !! by Burz · · Score: 1

      But a closed platform creates the whole reverse eng. issue in the first place.

    14. Re:Great News !! by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This way a developer will think twice about doing such things, as it means their app could very well break come next update.

      The amount of apps being banned for using private APIs disproves your argument.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    15. Re:Great News !! by lewko · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeah!

      Why should someone else's expertise, hard work or effort be allowed to give them an advantage over you? It's not fair!

      I really wish there was a way to mod your comment +1 Socialist.

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
    16. Re:Great News !! by tepples · · Score: 1

      As a developer, I like the enforcement of the "no private frameworks" rule.

      So what do you do when your customers demand a feature, but the only framework that would support that feature is private?

    17. Re:Great News !! by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Comments like these are what gives "free marketer" "libertarian" types their bad name. If "free market" was truly based on merit and if wealth directly corresponded to one's contributions to civilization, there would be very few "socialists" around. But then again there would be no hereditary billionaires (no billionaires in fact - as it is physically impossible for one man to contribute enough to warrant such wealth disparity) surrounded by billions of people whose monthly income does not exceed $20, no matter how hard they work and how clever they get with their minuscule rice paddy, either.

      The emregence of "socialist" and "communist" ideologies is the "free market's" own doing, as its religious dogma is far, far removed from any practical reality, thus resulting in the negative reactions (and over-reactions) of those who are not easily blinded and bamboozled and who also happened be born at the shit-end of the deal.

    18. Re:Great News !! by ianare · · Score: 1

      Good point. I may have overestimated the wisdom of the average iPhone developer ;-)

      Kidding aside, I have noticed this trend when programmers coming from a Windows / proprietary background start working with open frameworks. They'll use these tricks and then get pissed when their apps break on the next framework update.

      It could be a lack of education and experience, coupled with the fact that Windows has extremely stable ABIs and APIs.

    19. Re:Great News !! by celtic_hackr · · Score: 1

      Or, alternatively, Apple could document these APIs which give Apple the upper hand and third party developers at Apple's mercy for creating their own app to replace them. It seems to me, and I'm surprised none of the paranoid /.ers have mentioned this, that Apple is doing this so they can see what apps are really popular so they can create their own apps using the private frameworks which give them superior performance. Has Apple recently hired MS defectees? Or maybe I'm the only paranoid one.

      The reason people are using these private frameworks is they're BETTER than the ones Apple deems developers are allowed to use. No matter how you break it down it's all about power and control. I certainly agree that Apple allowing the use of undocumented APIs and private frameworks is bad for Apple, and they should prevent it. Hoewever, Apple should open these one up that are turning out to be useful. Rather than kill the messenger, they should listen and respond appropriately.

      Oh wait, this is Apple. Nevermind.

    20. Re:Great News !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Waaaah, I don't like that people can do better than me by doing more work and having more skills than I do, waaaah"

    21. Re:Great News !! by pclminion · · Score: 1

      The same thing I do for any other unreasonable demands. The customer can't have what they want, because the application would not be approved. It's not in my hands.

    22. Re:Great News !! by pclminion · · Score: 1

      "Waaaah, I don't like that people can do better than me by doing more work and having more skills than I do, waaaah"

      According to this logic, open source is pointless, because we can all just reverse-engineer other people's shit to learn how they do it.

    23. Re:Great News !! by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      A) Don't you void the warranty by jailbreaking? And the fact, that you need to jailbreak for some features, makes the device closed, not open.
      B) It's not $160, it's $1159 (try adding the price of a Mac OSX equipped laptop to the mix, or do you get it for free?) or at least $759(with a cheap Mac Mini)
      C) Last time I checked, world class was an airline designation of the economy class. So basically crap.

    24. Re:Great News !! by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      because they are willing to stay up for three weeks reverse-engineering some undocumented interface. It's kind of like doping in the Olympics

      No, it's very like you staying on your couch and your competition training for the Olympics day and night. And you wonder why they win!?!?!?!

    25. Re:Great News !! by lewko · · Score: 1

      I'd love to get into a detailed argument with you, but my comment was modded flamebait in a single mouse-click by someone too lazy to come up with a more substantial reply involving, you know, words.

      Dig the Digg generation.

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
    26. Re:Great News !! by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      I'd love to get into a detailed argument with you, but my comment was modded flamebait in a single mouse-click by someone too lazy to come up with a more substantial reply involving, you know, words.

      This never stopped me before. Why just in the other article about Chavez I got a horde of people down-moderating me and then braying as ACs in the same very thread, which usually happens when their hate and loathing gets better of their laziness and so they try to go for the "double whammy" ...

      If you are going to pay any attention to moderation then you will never post anything even remotely thoughtful here as there are always a number of lurkers of any conceivable persuasion ready to down-mod you for anything and everything at a drop of a hat. The good news is that there are also usually up-moderators to balance them out.

      Also, accumulating Slashdot "karma" isn't exactly what I would call "the main objective" of one's life. This is just a goofy entertainment site for techies.

    27. Re:Great News !! by Hazelfield · · Score: 1

      If you don't like the restrictions, fine. Jailbreak your phone. Or choose a different platform.

      Thanks, I think I'll do just that.

    28. Re:Great News !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, lots of open source does come about from reverse engineering or simply re-using code.

    29. Re:Great News !! by jaysones · · Score: 1

      Very well put.

  17. Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by sonamchauhan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just somewhat related: Can Apple's Wifi chipset be somehow set to work in adhoc mode?

    i.e. Can an IPhone/ITouch app (even a Jailbroken one?) let you communicate with the other 50 IPhone /ITouch users in the train you're on, without paying the cell companies?

    1. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      i.e. Can an IPhone/ITouch app (even a Jailbroken one?) let you communicate with the other 50 IPhone /ITouch users in the train you're on, without paying the cell companies?

      Wouldn't bluetooth be the better transport for this?

      I have no idea if Apple's chat program understands bluetooth, though, and you're probably not allowed to write a competing chat app.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      I dont' think Bluetooth would be a better transport as its range and bandwidth are inferior to Wifi.

    3. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I dont' think Bluetooth would be a better transport as its range and bandwidth are inferior to Wifi.

      I guess it depends on the requirements. The Dragon headset review has them working with an iPhone at about 85 feet - how long is the train in question? Could you relay on a mesh?

      WiFi could go further, but getting ad-hoc mode to work might (or might not) be hard, and then you have to develop a comms protocol (use mDNS for discovery, I assume the iPhone has that), all of which is basically already done in bluetooth, just wrap your logic around it.

      Realistically, Bluetooth EDR isn't going to do better than 2Mbps and 802.11 can do much faster. But, again, what do you need for bandwidth? Then figure in the power budget.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      I have no idea if Apple's chat program understands bluetooth, though, and you're probably not allowed to write a competing chat app.

      "Apple's chat program" either refers to 1) iChat, which isn't available on the iPhone or 2) the SMS/Messages app, which only understands SMS/MMS (and MMS only in iPhone OS 3.0 and later and only if you have a 3G phone). On the iPhone, an IM-over-TCP/IP app is "competing" only in that they both let you have short message-based conversations, and there are several IM apps for the iPhone (AIM, Yahoo! Messenger!, etc.), although none from Apple Inc. (no, I have no idea why iPhone OS doesn't include iChat).

    5. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by GordonBX · · Score: 1

      Yes. It's called Bluetooth.

    6. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by NoNickNameForMe · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. You can't create an ad hoc network on your iPhone, but you can join one. So if someone has a notebook and creates (seeds) and ad hoc wifi network, then you can connect to that ad hoc network (This issue has been raised in the iPhone Dev forum, and Apple is aware of it....for what it's worth).

    7. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by NoNickNameForMe · · Score: 1

      i.e. Can an IPhone/ITouch app (even a Jailbroken one?) let you communicate with the other 50 IPhone /ITouch users in the train you're on, without paying the cell companies?

      Wouldn't bluetooth be the better transport for this?

      I don't believe Bluetooth can handle more than 8 devices in a single PAN.

    8. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i.e. Can an IPhone/ITouch app (even a Jailbroken one?) let you communicate with the other 50 IPhone /ITouch users in the train you're on, without paying the cell companies?

      Enter Bluetooth PAN.

    9. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      It's technically possibly to develop an app to do this, like MyFi (for jailbroken phones.) It is strictly Verboten though. I can see why too, imagine an iphone app that lets you send/receive mp3's to/from nearby iPhone users. The music industry's worst nightmare.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    10. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by de_smudger · · Score: 1
      they sure can - for example, I connect my laptop and iPhone together in an ad-hoc network in order to use VNC and have whatever I'm doing on the phone show up in a constantly updating window on my desktop* (note the jailbreak to enable VNC isn't needed for the ad-hoc part to work - that's just done from the built-in settings app - so the capability is definitley there, and presumably you should be able to initiate wifi connections from within an app, but I don't know if the API calls for controlling the settings this specifically are public and/or if such an app would require jailbreak)

      (*web app QA by profession, so hitting Alt+PrintScreen on the VNC window is just a lot more efficient/much faster turnaround for getting a rendering issue into the bug tracker than the other way, which means taking screenshots on the iPhone by holding down the two buttons, quitting the browser, going into the photos app and emailing them to yourself from there, which launches the email app taking yet more time, then you have to re-launch the browser to get back to what you were doing.. and I use ad-hoc as I don't have to share the available bandwidth so it's much faster/screen updates are much more frequent than when going through the wifi router..)

    11. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      no, I have no idea why iPhone OS doesn't include iChat

      Ah, that was my assumption that it did. How very strange - perhaps AT&T wanted the SMS revenue.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    12. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I don't believe Bluetooth can handle more than 8 devices in a single PAN.

      Yeah, you'd probably have to elect a controller node and it would have to park and unpark the nodes (your limit is 8 active nodes, 200 parked IIRC). That's sort of hackish, but it got Microsoft by for a decade or so ('master browsers').

      IP would be easier with mDNS (or heck, AppleTalk would be nice) but I've read that that those WiFi radios eat batteries to fast to make it worth most people leaving them on. The other trick with WiFi is that buses and trains are starting to get Internet connections, and you probably don't want to give that up for 'toothing on the train (many AP's will forbid client-to-client traffic).

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    13. Re:Can Apples Wifi chipset work in adhoc mode? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      no, I have no idea why iPhone OS doesn't include iChat

      Ah, that was my assumption that it did. How very strange - perhaps AT&T wanted the SMS revenue.

      If so, why are AIM, Yahoo! Messenger!, etc. apps allowed on the App Store? Or is the idea that somebody has to go through some effort to find out about and get those apps, so a lot of people just default to using SMS?

  18. What does Apple gain by removing these things? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    I have the same question.

    While I like some Apple products, I love my MacBook Pro I'm typing this on, I question some of Apple's and Steve Jobs' actions.

    Falcon

    1. Re:What does Apple gain by removing these things? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      One thing they gain is not having to care what third-party apps they break if they decide to change the way, say, the private framework in question works, because at time T they decided "it should work this way" and at time T+delta T they realized that with 802.11xyzzy, or with a change to the way they handle captive networks, or..., it really needs to work some other way.

      Of course, they'd gain less irritation if they could catch this beforehand, but maybe the offending apps loaded up the private framework at run time rather than being explicitly linked with the framework; a simple otool -L would identify apps explicitly linked with the framework, but, unless you forbid using any interfaces that let you load libraries/frameworks at run time, it's probably trickier to catch those (although I guess you could sandbox apps so that they're not allowed to load anything from /System/PrivateFrameworks at run time - but that'd prevent Apple's own frameworks from doing that, so some way of granting privileges to some userland code in the process's address space but not to other userland code would be needed).

    2. Re:What does Apple gain by removing these things? by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      a simple otool -L would identify apps explicitly linked with the framework, but, unless you forbid using any interfaces that let you load libraries/frameworks at run time

      What I don't understand is why, given the restrictions in the SDK agreement, they don't run otool automatically on any incoming binaries and flag up use of private frameworks as disallowed, thus giving developers the ability to rework their app before it gets to the store, and saving their reviewers time from manually trying to check for this. Some well known apps have been blocked for weeks in the past for using private APIs when in fact they don't, but the reviewer just assumed that they must be to be able to display the current wireless IP address, which shows you how incompetent their reviewers are.

      If they'd scanned for linking to private frameworks from the start they wouldn't be in the position of removing apps after they'd been launched, but like many things on the app store, they're making up the rules as they go along.

  19. We Don't Know a Thing by repetty · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hey, I know!

    Since nobody on Slashdot knows a single thing about this action by Apple -- at this moment -- why don't we just post a bunch of shit that has absolutely no merit?! Hey, we can even call ourselves "journalists"!

    1. Re:We Don't Know a Thing by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      True. Since a lot of journalists out there don't seem to bother with fact checking anymore. It's all about the sensationalism.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    2. Re:We Don't Know a Thing by knappe+duivel · · Score: 1

      sorry, I modded parent redundant by mistake. this comment is to undo the mod & apologize

    3. Re:We Don't Know a Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be new here.

  20. Freedom by headkase · · Score: 1

    The issue is Apple is a gatekeeper and they are very opaque about their reasoning in the case-by-case calls. I'd rather have incompatibility and no-one telling me what I can and cannot do rather than be forced to choose among the paid offerings that are well integrated. Even if they are really shiny. I suppose this philosophy is why I run Linux, I know there are other philosophies out there: Microsoft's and Apple's existence prove this but this does not mean that I have to buy in. I think choice is a good thing, choose Apple if you like ;)

    --
    Shh.
    1. Re:Freedom by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say "the app has been pulled for using a private framework" was opaque to me, I'd say that was pretty clear, especially since it's spelled out very clearly in the dev information.

      The way the weasly summary was written, with a clear anti-Apple slant, made it look like the fact that the apps were Wifi-stumblers was the reason they were pulled, knowing that no one on slashdot would read the article itself. That's where the opaque vagueness is coming from.

  21. Why 2014 will be like 1984 by ADRA · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Oh what a difference a few decades make.

    --
    Bye!
  22. Re:filter by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

    For the dynamic front page, on the top of the left column, there's a list of sections. Mouse-over the one you want to hide, and click the icon that shows up. Then you can click "hide" to do the obvious.

    For the classic front page, you'll need to go here, then click "Sections" under Classic Index.

    --
    My sig can beat up your sig.
  23. Why Fry WiFiFoFum? by Katyrnyn · · Score: 1

    I'll admit that even it has been a little rough,
    with quirks and blips and little ticks since OS 3.1.
    But even now I just say wow at the news that its been snuffed,
    'cause as of late it's been so great to Find Wi while on the run.

    It was lean and pretty clean as apps are want to be,
    and so of use and not obtuse so now I'm slightly mad.
    For no bugs I've seen have been so mean to give clear reason to me,
    to kick it out and without a doubt this makes my phone so very very sad.

    Uneven rules and duplicate tools have no doubt likely doomed,
    our favorite apps we bought for laughs with money oh so small.
    So let none be shocked and none be fooled to find out that we've zoomed,
    on to other phones with other tones and no more garden wall.

    --
    I dti'r na ndall is ri' fear na leathshu'ile.
  24. They'd also be the only store in town... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Just so we're clear here, it'd be like if Microsoft could decide what software it wanted to host on it's servers, and provide a shop framework for. Which, last time I checked, they have every right to do.

    Yeah, but they'd also be the ONLY store you can buy from (unless you hacked your computer). I know it's within their legal right. I don't believe that they should HAVE that legal right, however.

    Oh, and believe me, I DO complain about those other closed systems. They're just a big and visible target. Thus, they get all the public hate.

    1. Re:They'd also be the only store in town... by agrif · · Score: 1

      It seems to me from the content of your post that you read my first and last paragraphs, and completely skipped the middle one where I made essentially the same points.

      You need to work on your quick-reading.

    2. Re:They'd also be the only store in town... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the GP AC. GP AC must be Woody Allen, posting as an AC.

  25. The mystery of advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The Apple Appstore reaches 100K apps and 2 Billion downloads!!!!" Buy Buy Buy!

    (1 week later)
    "Apple removes 33% or apps (porn/racy, wifi helpers, productivity tools, map tool, skype tools, e-book readers(?), etc..." (Appstore now has 75K apps, and we find out 1 billion downloads were from porn/racy apps)

    For some reason I think iTunes Connect will run faster and the appstore search will be more meaningful...

  26. The Next Big iThing! by interval1066 · · Score: 1

    Jobs: "I've got it! We'll make the iPhone... LESS USEFUL!"

    --
    Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
  27. doesn't add up by sjames · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If the issue is that the Apps used a private API, how did they get approved in the first place?

    I'm not sure why anyone would develop for the iPhone, apparently you not only face a capricious approval process, but they may revoke that approval on a whim.

    1. Re:doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the issue is that the Apps used a private API, how did they get approved in the first place?

      Apple doesn't get to see your source code. To figure out that you are using an API, they have to, to some extent, reverse-engineer your application. Obviously, they don't have the time to do that for every app. But once one application in a given group starts sticking out like a sore thumb, they will look much more closely at other applications in that domain.

      Or perhaps, somebody at Apple had a light-bulb moment and realized "Hey... How can they be doing this without using one of our internal frameworks?"

    2. Re:doesn't add up by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure why anyone would develop for the iPhone, apparently you not only face a capricious approval process, but they may revoke that approval on a whim.

      Just make sure your app complies with all current and future rules and does not compete against any apps Apple plans to introduce down the line, and you'll be fine.

      Want to invest in my iPhone dev business?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:doesn't add up by sjames · · Score: 1

      If your app is calling THEIR API, they can know about it without seeing your source. First, they can look at the symbol tables to see what libraries are accessed and which symbols in that library are called. Second, they can just use a dev version of their library to dump a log.

      see ldd, strace and ltrace, for example.

    4. Re:doesn't add up by mikestew · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple doesn't get to see your source code. To figure out that you are using an API, they have to, to some extent, reverse-engineer your application.

      They have static analysis tools. They nailed one of my apps for subclassing when I shouldn't have. Not a private API, just subclassing something that the docs clearly state (had I read them) shouldn't be subclassed. No way one is going to see that just looking at the app. Used a category instead (which is what I should have done in the first place), and there was no external change to the app. App went through just fine.

    5. Re:doesn't add up by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      see ldd, strace and ltrace, for example.

      ...but not on Mac OS X, which, unfortunately, has none of them. (Do, however, see nm and otool -L; at least OS X has them, and the iPhone OS development tools might have them, or the OS X versions might Just Work on iPhone OS binaries, as iPhone OS binaries are Mach-O binaries for ARM.)

      But, yes, it's certainly possible for some software to look at the executable image for an iPhone OS app and figure out what it's linked with and what routines it's using. It's a bit harder to detect whether it uses, for example, dlopen() to load a library or framework at run time and then uses dlsym() to look up symbols in that library, unless dlopen() and company are on the Forbidden Interface List for iPhone OS apps and they bounce anything that uses them.

    6. Re:doesn't add up by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      But, yes, it's certainly possible for some software to look at the executable image for an iPhone OS app and figure out what it's linked with and what routines it's using.

      Yes it is, and that's what Apple should have been doing from the start.

      It's a bit harder to detect whether it uses, for example, dlopen() to load a library or framework at run time and then uses dlsym() to look up symbols in that library, unless dlopen() and company are on the Forbidden Interface List for iPhone OS apps and they bounce anything that uses them.

      They are on the forbidden list - dlopen works in the simulator but not on the device.

  28. Reason #1352... by Itninja · · Score: 0

    ...not to buy an iPhone.

    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
  29. the common denominator by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Function is the common denominator in the revoked applications

    But others left in the app store have the same functionality, so if the issue is the functionality then why were they left in?

    Falcon

  30. Getting tired... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Getting tired of these "apple removes..." blabla.

    It's almost as if it's a marketing trick... get free news.

  31. It's great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Best idea ever Apple.

    It makes me even more proud to be a PC.

    1. Re:It's great! by Jaxoreth · · Score: 2, Funny

      It makes me even more proud to be a PC.

      Is that you, John Hodgman?

      --
      In general, it is safe and legal to kill your children. -- POSIX Programmer's Guide
  32. useless junk by luther349 · · Score: 0

    the iphone can see any wifi networks it can connect to. so why would you need another app to connect for you. apps with a db are all you need so you knoe where to go.

  33. Ob Godwin by Bryan_W · · Score: 1

    First they came for the porn apps and I did not speak out -- because I did not like porn
    Then they came for the wi-fi apps, and I did not speak out -- because I did not use wi-fi
    Then they came for my apps -- and there was no one left to speak out for me.

    1. Re:Ob Godwin by al.caughey · · Score: 1

      Did someone say something?...

      Nah... its just an echo of an earlier posting

  34. let the iPhone get even a small marketshare by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    The iPhone has a small marketshare? HAHA! It has a 63.7% marketshare. Article linked to postulates one reason Apple slapped HTC with a lawsuit declaring patent infringement is because Android based phones are gaining on Apple's marketshare.

    They might be number one now, but they were number one with the Apple II and look at how quickly they lost that lead.

    In the bookstore of the school I attended in 1985, half of the computers sold were Macs. The rest were divided up by the various PC compatible OEMs. Than was 8 years after the Apple II came out. Looking now, Windows "accounted for 92.1% of the operating systems that powered machines visiting the 40,000-plus sites that NetApplications monitors for clients of its analytics service." That is up slightly from previously, but it does not break down OEMs. Now if Linux and other non-OS X OSes raised the percentage of OSes powering PCs to 93% that leaves OS X running 7%. Now how many of the rest are Dells, HPs, Levenos, or one of the dozens more OEMs? Seven percent may not seem like a lot but how does it compare to OEM sales?

    Falcon

    1. Re:let the iPhone get even a small marketshare by Weezul · · Score: 1

      North America does not lead the world smartphone market. Windows Mobile and Blackberry never count on abroad for example.

      http://vowe.net/archives/008814.html

      http://gizmodo.com/5101114/iphone-conquers-166-percent-of-world-smartphone-market

      http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10283_Gartner_Q2_world_smartphone_sa.php

      Apple has been attracting new smartphone users more oriented towards games, plus Symbian seems outdated now. But now Android has locked onto the exact same market as Apple. Android's enormous variety will prove an astounding asset in the fashion conscious consumer electronics world.

      Nokia has not yet declared their Maemo/MeeGo platform as consumer ready, but their next revision should achieve that status, unless the MeeGo merger shows down their timeline. A solid MeeGo based smartphone with heavy marketing will perform amazingly well.

      Also, MeeGo should provides an easy porting target for Android apps (Java duh?) and eventually iPhone Apps (GnuSTEP). Imagine you're a successful iPhone or Android developer. Do you develop a whole new app for your platform? Or do you port your existing hits to MeeGo? You'll make more money doing less work by porting most of the time.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    2. Re:let the iPhone get even a small marketshare by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Also, MeeGo should provides an easy porting target for Android apps (Java duh?)

      I have the impression that Android isn't exactly a standard Java platform, and it probably also has a pile of its own classes that you don't magically get to use on every Java platform.

      and eventually iPhone Apps (GnuSTEP).

      GNUStep doesn't exactly include every single class that's in iPhone OS (or Mac OS X, for that matter), either.

    3. Re:let the iPhone get even a small marketshare by Weezul · · Score: 1

      Android's Java run-time Dalvik and Java classes are open source and run under desktop linux already, so surely they'll be ported to MeeGo.

      Android's higher level services like address book obviously aren't much use on a MeeGo device of course. So we'd need to rewrite Android's higher level Java classes for many sophisticated apps, but many games could run without those, and developers could simply port their apps to MeeGo.

      GnuSTEP is quite far from fully supporting the iPhone's UIKit framework, but various people are working towards ports, and some apps can still be ported with even fractional compatibility.

      Also, Qt has been a very popular porting target for desktop applications departing NeXTSTEP, Cocoa, etc. and Qt compares quite favorably with Cocoa, iPhone's UIKit, etc. One might even blame Qt for GnuSTEPs stagnation. So sufficiently successful apps could simply be ported to Qt.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
  35. Why pick on Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MS is a virus-laden hotbed of instability. I want things that work. Apple stuff works.

  36. Bombed out garden by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Very mature.

    Apple's corporate nannyism is indeed a pain, and it's what keeps me away from iPhone. But I can't say I like Android any better. It's the usual disorganized Google product, where every product is viewed as emergent from a lot of independent programmers each doing their own thing. So there's no central vision to the product. You have a total mess of a platform that isn't even a single platform, since every Android hardware implementation is different from every other.

    Really, our choices suck. Maemo (or whatever it's called now) will never achieve critical mass. Windows Moblle is, well, Windows. Symbian is showing its age. Blackberry is designed for somebody who texts a lot more than I do.

    I'm sort of flirting with getting a WebOS phone, except I don't trust Palm not to screw this product up, the way they've screwed up every other product. Also, a phone plan that supports it properly costs $60/month (3G data rates in the U.S. are totally out of hand), and while I like having the Internet in my pocket, I'm not sure I like it that much.

    What I should really do is go back to having a separate phone and PDA, and put up with the hassle of sharing data between them manually. (With a PAYG plan, I'd probably save $50/month.) Except nobody makes a decent PDA any more...

    1. Re:Bombed out garden by twerppoet · · Score: 1

      Except nobody makes a decent PDA any more...

      Actually the iPod Touch makes and excellent PDA. The Zune HD probably does too. I haven't played with it. I'm guessing there are several other options out there, even an Android one.

      It's not that good PDA's went away, they just morphed into PDA style apps on more capable devices. Of course most of those devices are cellphones. Luckily not all of them are.

    2. Re:Bombed out garden by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      Good PDAs that are also smartphones aren't good PDAs.

      iPod Touch is the best one I've seen lately. Zune HD... Idunno.
      Android? I've looked and not found.

      I'd rather have a smartphone with the option to block all 3G/EDGE traffic at the phone level, relying on wi-fi except in emergencies. I've been waiting since the Treo 600 was hot news. Its retail launch was in mid 2003, so ... eight years or so?

    3. Re:Bombed out garden by soupforare · · Score: 1

      Except nobody makes a decent PDA any more...

      I don't even bother with the current crop. I'm still using a Treo650 and will probably just buy another one when it dies. The Palm PIMs are still my favourite, I don't have any problems syncing over usb or IP. It's, of course, not as sexy or connected as current smartphones but I don't want a toy. I've already got a DS.

      I don't trust Palm not to screw this product up

      As a longtime palm user, I don't blame you. I'm amazed they're still around. Technological pros/cons aside- someone needs to fire whatever marketing genius was behind the Pre name and campaign.

      --
      --- Do you believe in the day?
    4. Re:Bombed out garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except nobody makes a decent PDA any more...

      Does anybody make any version of these smart phones without the phone part? There's the iPod Touch. What about Android or WebOS devices without the phone?

    5. Re:Bombed out garden by Weezul · · Score: 1

      Maemo ... will never achieve critical mass.

      Don't count on it. Nokia is the best & strongest mobile phone maker in the world. Millions will use Maemo if & when Nokia says "It's ready". Intel and Nokia standardizing their Moblin and Maemo distributions as MeeGo makes the platform considerably more attractive for developers too.

      Windows Moblle is, well, Windows.

      lol yes.

      Symbian is showing its age.

      Symbian is also opening up more in response to internal competition from Maemo/MeeGo.

      Blackberry is designed for somebody who texts a lot more than I do.

      Business users must avoid all the touch screen phones because they lose clients if you send short terse messages.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    6. Re:Bombed out garden by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      lot of independent programmers each doing their own thing. So there's no central vision to the product

      I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with this, but: The disorder is the central vision to the product. Only, the vision is not owned by a single company/person. There are many successful things in this world which came out of an apparent disorder:

      1. GNU/Linux - not that successful on the desktop, but very successful in some fields
      2. Biological evolution - Some absolutely amazing life forms have come about due to it
      3. Capitalism, and economy in general - What happened to all the "planned development" countries? Most successful countries have a chaotic business environment.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    7. Re:Bombed out garden by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Nokia is the best & strongest mobile phone maker in the world.

      That would be great if they put some real effort into marketing Maemo phones. But they're not. They only have one phone running this OS, as opposed to dozens of Symbian phones.

      I see a familiar pattern. I saw it happen with x64 computers at Sun. The company decides to move into new technology, lots of resources go into developing it, but the old tech has too many diehards in the corporate structure, and they undercut the new tech at every level.

    8. Re:Bombed out garden by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Uh, did you notice what I said about not wanting an iPhone? An iPod touch is just an iPhone without the cell radio.

    9. Re:Bombed out garden by twerppoet · · Score: 1

      So, then look into the Zune HD. Creative's Plaszma also looks promising. The point was that there are great PDA's out there. They just aren't called PDA's anymore.

      I'm kind of tired of "this is just a that without the widget." It was an obvious exaggeration when it was first used. Now it's just parrot speak.

    10. Re:Bombed out garden by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Linux lacks a central vision? How about "clone Unix"? I can't think of a single successful Open Source project that hasn't had a strong central team, willing to tell its contributors, "No, you can't kludge in that feature, it just doesn't fit in with the rest of the project."

      As for your biological and economic examples: I never said that emergent behavior didn't happen. Obviously it does. But systems that take thousands or millions of years to evolve, accruing millions of failed experiments on the way, are not comparable to systems that go from conception to implementation in months and that have to promise a decent chance of success to even get off the ground.

    11. Re:Bombed out garden by Matthew+Bafford · · Score: 1

      I'd rather have a smartphone with the option to block all 3G/EDGE traffic at the phone level, relying on wi-fi except in emergencies. I've been waiting since the Treo 600 was hot news. Its retail launch was in mid 2003, so ... eight years or so?

      It's not an option out of the box, but you can accomplish this with software on Android devices. They work by changing the "APN" to invalid values - e.g. "APNdroid" as a simple toggle or "JuiceDefender" to do it based on a schedule.

      Technically you could on iPhone, too, (same general process) but I'm not sure if you can do it on the fly (a profile which changes the configuration will accomplish disabling data).

      The problem is getting a carrier which doesn't require you pay for "unlimited" data. Android has an advantage there since it's easier to buy an Android phone that's entirely unlocked and then bring it to a GSM provider without the provider knowing what you are using.

    12. Re:Bombed out garden by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Linux lacks a central vision?

      That is why I didn't say Linux. I am not Stallman, so I typically don't call it GNU/Linux. I wanted to emphasize on GNU/Linux. For that reason, I would like to use the word Linux as to mean only the kernel. Note also, that I use the word GNU here for the non-GNU open-source software systems also. Stallman sure would be angry with me. Ok, with that out of my system, I begin.

      Look, the kernel rarely works on its own. Leaving aside the embedded stuff, what has been successful, has been a combination of lots of userland applications and the Linux kernel. You are right in saying that most successful Open-Source project have strong central leadership. But GNU/Linux as a whole? Not a chance. So Gnome project goes one way, X(org) goes the other way. Apache goes one way, kernel goes the other way. Millions of such examples where 2 loosely related items in GNU/Linux have their independent leadership, do what they damn please. Yet, GNU/Linux as a whole works. This is one, which didn't take millions of years, and is arguably progressing faster than some proprietary systems with strong, central leadership.

      Similarly, maybe every single successful Android application will have a different single central strong leadership. But maybe Android ecosystem overall might be better off for it.

      Economy / Capitalism also, does not take millions of years. It only takes a few decades of freeing an economic system from the "planned development" idea, when it shows unmistakable signs of tremendous progress.

      Biological Evolution, I admit, does take millions of years. And we don't even know with how many "failed experiments on the way" as you aptly put it. But its achievements have also been equally astronomical, so I wouldn't take it too lightly.

      So yeah, central leadership works. But more times than would be obvious, chaos work too.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    13. Re:Bombed out garden by fm6 · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of project GNU. It started out as nothing more or less than creating a Unix clone. You do know what the initials stand for?

      Capitalism also, does not take millions of years. It only takes a few decades of freeing an economic system from the "planned development" idea, when it shows unmistakable signs of tremendous progress.

      You're talking about the transition of the former Soviet block to market economies, right? But these new economies didn't grow up out of nothing. There was a lot of interaction with the existing market economies, in the form of trade, investment, and assistance. And even so, there's still a lot of state control, especially in Russia. They just don't bother justifying it with a lot of pseudo-socialist ideology.

      Anyway, we're not talking about the shift from socialism to market economies in a planet already dominated by the latter. We're talking about about the invention of modern capitalism. And that took centuries. A thousand years ago, the western world was dominated by feudalism, with very little trade and nothing resembling modern currency. The change arguably started around 1200, and capitalism didn't become the dominant way of doing business until maybe the 1600s. Feudalism fought this trend every inch of the way, and didn't really disappear until the 19th century.

      I don't take evolution lightly. I just don't think it's a model for any project that has to complete in a single lifetime.

    14. Re:Bombed out garden by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of project GNU. It started out as nothing more or less than creating a Unix clone. You do know what the initials stand for?

      Haha. I guess this confusion illustrates my point in a way. Forget about any leadership, there is not even a canonical name for what I wanted to point out: all the open-source software that typically works along with Linux. It is loosely called Linux, and more specifically you could call it by its distribution name. To be more precise than Linux and yet not a pedant, I called it GNU/Linux. But even this caused a confusion. So, I am done with the fruitless search for exact names, and going with loose names from now on.

      Some projects belong to GNU, some pretty huge projects lie outside GNU. Notably, the following come to mind: X, Apache, Firefox. Yet others remain dominated by a single company, but yet open enough: QT & Nokia come to mind. Without all these, we can't really celebrate the success of what is colloquially called Linux. If this is not successful chaos, what is?

      We're talking about about the invention of modern capitalism

      We are not. Given that modern capitalism has already evolved / been invented; a small but yet chaotic sub-ecosystem can evolve relatively quickly. That, is what would possibly be Android. In fact, the chaotic "Linux" world could not have been possible without biological evolution as well as the capitalistic society. Which, in turn, were possible only because earth came into being with so-and-so properties. That does not mean we cannot talk about the "Linux" revolution without talking about these larger "evolutions", does it?

      Similarly, given that here we are: evolved, capitalistic, intelligent; a subsystem of this can evolve without taking millions more of years. Even though our evolution up to this point from, say, maybe the Big Bang, did take much longer.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    15. Re:Bombed out garden by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Look, the kernel rarely works on its own. Leaving aside the embedded stuff, what has been successful, has been a combination of lots of userland applications and the Linux kernel. You are right in saying that most successful Open-Source project have strong central leadership. But GNU/Linux as a whole? Not a chance. So Gnome project goes one way, X(org) goes the other way. Apache goes one way, kernel goes the other way. Millions of such examples where 2 loosely related items in GNU/Linux have their independent leadership, do what they damn please.

      Yup, and they never have Linux Plumbers Conferences to try to get parts of the platform that need to work together to work together well. Perhaps not "central leadership", but not "chaos", either.

      As for Apache, it's an app that runs atop a number of platforms, including Linux-kernel-plus-some-particular-bits-of-userland; it manages to go its own way, and work, even though the Linux-kernel-plus-some-particular-bits-of-userland, Mac OS X, Solaris, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonFly BSD, HP-UX, AIX, Windows, etc. platforms go their own way; Linux isn't particularly special in that case.

    16. Re:Bombed out garden by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

      If you are willing to accept the iPod Touch, you really need to admit the iPhone is a good smartphone. It for all intents and purposes is a crippled iPhone.

    17. Re:Bombed out garden by X86Daddy · · Score: 1

      What I should really do is go back to having a separate phone and PDA, and put up with the hassle of sharing data between them manually. (With a PAYG plan, I'd probably save $50/month.) Except nobody makes a decent PDA any more...

      I've considered this the only sound strategy for years... I currently, desperately, await the release of the Pandora to meet my needs, while I get by with a hacked Zipit Z2. Those meet my needs, but even previous generation PDAs were decent at PDA stuff... I just need a small Linux machine in addition to a phone. Works great for me since I switched from a Palm to a Zaurus many years back. Whatever you use, you can usually boil contacts, notes, and calendar sync down to a one or two click operation between your handheld, phone, and desktop PIM software... "manual" but not troublesome.

    18. Re:Bombed out garden by Weezul · · Score: 1

      You're very likely correct about the corporate momentum issues, but failure isn't a forgone conclusion.

      (a) Symbian has fallen behind real competitors, especially Android. Sun watched everyone else stick with x86. Palm reinvented itself.

      (b) Symbian jobs are not immediately threatened because Symbian's age, stability, and speed make it suitable for mid-level larger market phones.

      Nokia's approach has always been fairly laid back, planning upon five Maemo based platforms before declaring the product ready for prime time. We'll see how well their next Maemo phone stacks up.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    19. Re:Bombed out garden by fm6 · · Score: 1

      No, Sun did try to re-invent itself. I should know, I was part of the reinvention. I used to be docs lead for this product, which used to be the most powerful 4U x64 server on the market. (It got replaced by another Sun server that's essentially the same box with a new version of Hypertransport.) Sun got this product by acquiring Kealia, which was founded by Andy Bechtolsheim, the same guy who designed to first Sun workstation back at the dawn of time, and who had left Sun a decade before because he couldn't get anybody to drink the x64 koolaid.

      It wasn't long before Bechtolsheim left all over again, followed by most of the rest of Kealia. This repeated the acquire-and-destroy cycle that Sun went through when they bought Cobalt networks back in 2000. In both cases they expended huge resources to expand into the x64 user space, but the existing SPARC mafia made sure the new guys knew they weren't welcome.

      Maybe you're right, and Symbian isn't following the same route. But if so, why is it taking them so long to get serious about Maemo? The platforms been out since 2005!

    20. Re:Bombed out garden by fm6 · · Score: 1

      So, what will you do when your Zaurus dies? Sharp has abandoned the Linux device market, and I don't see any other sources.

    21. Re:Bombed out garden by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Yup, and they never have Linux Plumbers Conferences to try to get parts of the platform that need to work together to work together well. Perhaps not "central leadership", but not "chaos", either.

      Very funny. Not sure how to begin, but....
      1. You seem think the conferences (or any other conferences) actually accomplish something.
      2. So maybe Android stakeholders might also have "Android Plumbers Conferences", 5 years hence. How does that invalidate the analogy?
      3. These conferences concentrate on the kernel. I never said anything about the kernel alone. I said GNU/Linux is chaotic, and then further explained in the GP post that when I say GNU, I include other open-source non-GNU software too, which are typically used along with Linux.

      there are a few more points but let us leave it there for now.

      As for Apache, it's an app that runs atop a number of platforms

      Linux, and Apache (and this, and that, and .....) run together. They might run separately too, but that is beside the point. So, Apache is a part of, and contributes to the success of the "ecosystem of open-source software that typically run with Linux". Apache and other members of "ecosystem of open-source software that typically run with Linux" do not have a central leadership. The "ecosystem of open-source software that typically run with Linux" is successful. Hence "ecosystem of open-source software that typically run with Linux" is an example of success of a system without central leadership.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    22. Re:Bombed out garden by Weezul · · Score: 1

      I expect the community will benefit enormously from the fact that both Moblin and Maemo are merging as MeeGo, with support from both Intel and Nokia, and third parties also providing devices.

      p.s. I'd been holding out for their Maemo's fifth generation device, but ultimately decided to buy an N900, partially because the next revision might not be a phone, and I'll likely buy the next revision too. It's true they've not put any marketing behind Maemo, but the device itself is fabulous.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    23. Re:Bombed out garden by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      I am entirely willing to accept that the iPhone is a good, even excellent, smartphone. I am not, emphasis not, willing to accept it as a good PDA when it costs >= $2000 over the life of the product.

    24. Re:Bombed out garden by X86Daddy · · Score: 1

      I used an OQO for a while... after it died on me, I bought a Zipit Z2, and that is my current carry computing device. I'm awaiting release of the Pandora, which should be the spiritual successor and technological superior to the Zaurus line of devices in every way. Oddly enough, my Zaurus still works, but it finally began showing its age a few years back, hence the succession of other machines.

  37. Been trying to get Apple to make this API public by tylersoze · · Score: 1

    Yeah I'm a game developer and have been trying to get Apple to make this API public to no avail. We have a game on the DS that uses wifi hotspots as part of the gameplay. We really wanted to do an iPhone version but weren't able to because the API to find hotspots is private.

  38. Re:filter by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 1

    I believe you may be thinking of Engadget.

    Filtering all the Apple stories on Engadget? Who wants to read nothing but ads?!?

    --
    Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
  39. In Apple America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Steve Jobs' WIFI spots find YOU.

  40. mod parent up! by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    well played sir.

    Death to teh apple tree! Stunted to retardation in its gilded cage.

    --
    -
  41. War-iphoning? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WarIPhoning is not a crime.

  42. Alternative iPhone app stores by flyingfsck · · Score: 1
    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  43. Punch that meme! by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    And your meme button is stuck.

    Right, because the "Beleaguered Apple is Dying this year" meme is so spring fresh!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  44. Every wall has two sides- volume does equal choice by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Increased Volume != Increased Options.

    Except in the real world, where this is a fundamental truth.

    Android already has a far greater variety of software then the Iphone due to the locked nature of the application delivery and development system.

    Unless again, you consider reality. Reality includes Jailbroken iPhones, which at last count (sometime early last year) was around 3-4 MILLION devices (ad tracking agencies help verify those numbers, but that number is from the founder of Cydia).

    Your wall is illusory. Anything you can name, it's been done on the iPhone - and usually first. Because there are simply more devices for it to be run on, regardless of which side of the App Store wall you are all.

    If you think you really have more choice, look at any Android top ten app list compared to an equivalent Android one...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  45. So then, anti Kafka by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    'Kafkaesque' would most likely denote the endless pain and futility of dealing with an organization where the participant has no idea what hoops to jump through

    Case closed then. Because the hoop is the same one it has always been - don't use private API's.

    It's not like it's a big mystery at this point.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  46. Because Apple tightens QA over time by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the issue is that the Apps used a private API, how did they get approved in the first place?

    Because over time Apple gets better about figuring out who is using private API's.

    In the early days it was the most egregious violations that visually screamed out "hey look, I am using a private API" - like Coverflow.

    So then that died down, and for a while people got away with undocumented framework and system calls.

    But recently Apple has started basically using a symbol analyses tool looking for calls to specific system stuff. I can imagine it was only recently they thought to look at super low level network stuff.

    Apple even has been pretty nice about it generally, most developers just get a warning saying "you are using a private API, fix that before your next update please". I guess whatever this framework was using was a little more undesirable than most calls.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  47. Just wait.... by louiech21 · · Score: 1

    Apple has made the decision yet again to limit the functionality of their own devices and control their consumers choices. You would think instead of removing apps from their store that they would add more to make their own product more marketable and versitile. Maybe instead of worrying limiting functionality, Apple should think about adding functionality and consider why people want other products instead of theirs. The ability to browse flash sites would be a good start, who cares if there are apps to watch porn on the app store. All people really want is the ability to do what they need, browse the web with no limitations, and use the device with no limitations. If I want to tinker with the hardware who cares, the idea is that you are selling phones, ipods and computers.

    1. Re:Just wait.... by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      You just don't get it do you. This is all about consumer choice.
      Will the parents of that teen boy begging for a new phone chose the one with the app store full of boobie apps.
      Will that librarian chose a different phone because she can't tell what frequency a AP is on.

      Apple makes choices it thinks will make more people chose the iPhone. If its a choice between a few thousand whinny geeks and a few million consumers the geeks are screwed. As you said "All people really want is the ability to do what they need" consumers don't give a frack about the stuff that gets talked about here. They don't need access to an API. They don't need an open OS. They don't need Flash (ok nobody needs or wants flash).

      Yes I'm a geek but I already have an app that tells me AP frequencies and MAC Addresses. (os gives strength and SSID) It was free so I doubt the developer went bankrupt when it was pulled.

  48. WiFiFoFum by davvr6 · · Score: 1

    I bought the app and it has been great. It helped me check to see if I was sharing a common wifi channel with my nearest neighbours. It also tells me the -db signal strength around the house. and it lets me log on to a range of foreign hotspots that apples settings just won't let you see. I used it today. I somehow think that this has something to do with the heralding of wireless N on the iphone. Just my hunch. But I agree it is both strange and Kafkaesque.

    1. Re:WiFiFoFum by Sheen · · Score: 2
  49. Complain Much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do people forget that when the iPhone was released it had no App Store? For a year Apple told people "just make web apps". In 2.0 they introduced the app store, and then when the apps came out, they had extremely limited functionality until 3.0. Apple has opened a ton of new APIs up for public use. I don't think it's so much that Apple is trying to block developers from doing things that they want as it is that Apple just isn't ready to support it. I only see them opening things up more in the future as Apple progresses. If they don't.. too bad. But's it's their platform and their decision. If it draws more people to Android then Jobs will need to explain the shift in sales to the shareholders. But you can't blame Apple for rejecting apps that aren't following the rules laid out before app was ever coded (though these apps should have been shot down in the approval process). If Apple changed their policy and cut off developers that were doing things by the rules before, that's a valid complaint.

    So far though, I am very pleased with the iPhone. It could use a LOT of improvement for sure. They could make a more rugged model that isn't so focused on being thin and sexy, but more battery and a far less fragile case. Rated to be "resistant" to falls from 5-6 feet onto an unforgiving surface would be great. A little thicker so it's easier to hold onto without feeling like you're smashing a pancake into your ear would be great too. It's cool that these phones can be made so thin, but that's just not always the best thing for usability.

    At the end of the day, though, you have to tell yourself "this is still a phone". If you have software on there that causes it to act funky and not work as expected, there's going to be hell to pay when I miss important business calls. Everything else comes second to it getting calls and keeping me connected to the people that fund my paycheck.

  50. More predictable "nyah-nyah" and defensiveness. by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Happens every time and even though the intelligent users of slashdot are more than aware of this, they can't seem to fight the compulsion to re-re-re-re-state their position/perception/opinion on the matter.

    Apple strong on consistent user experience. (by this I mean consistent with apple's ever-changing idea of what the user experience should be.)

    Android strong on openness and flexibility. (except for where the carriers object and attempt to control it... but even then, not so much.)

    When the iPhone came out with a battery that couldn't be replaced by the user, I wrote it off. To me, that was the primary show-stopper. It's a privacy and security concern. It's a battery life/conservation concern. It's even a safety concern.

    Android, on the other hand is interesting in that it is yet another high profile Linux based product that has elements of traditional Linux failure all over it. I don't mean this to sound as bad as it sounds, but I can think of no better way to put it. The game isn't over yet and perhaps the people steering Android will see the failures and find some solutions, but what traditional failures am I talking about? Simple: "Being strong on consistent user experience" among other things.

    Previous articles on slashdot came close to describing problems by talking about the wide variety of android phones and how software for one does not work for all. (it's not a problem for normal Linux hackers... we know all about tarballs, DEBs and RPMS, i386/i586/i686/x86_64/PPC and other divisions based on which version of glibc it was compiled for.) But there is more. The apps themselves are "more free" and therefore have less consistent delivery of look and feel. When this happens, a solid device starts to feel like a handful of marbles. At some level of consciousness, we all perceive problems when we are presented with things that don't match up well. Whether or not it's an actual problem is irrelevant to the feelings of the user (which, by the way is foremost on the minds at Apple) which is where the real success or failure of a project lies. "Better things" fail all the time at the hands of better marketing of lesser things. If people feel one thing is better than another or more reliable or will last longer or be supported longer or will have better backing, the truth doesn't matter so much as their feelings.

    As a Linux optimist, I see this as an opportunity for Linux to gain recognition and public favor. We all know that Linux is a kernel and that it's in a LOT of stuff everywhere that most people never see or think about. We also know that because it's just a kernel, the REAL problems are in how it's packaged with other things... with or without a GUI, which GUI, what package management, etc. But there's more. Look and feel has never really been stressed. KDE users will probably disagree with me on this because KDE does, in fact, push more in favor of a consistent look and feel. But they are an exception.

    But even if the Android project pulls itself together and actually does build a very successful consumer implementation of a Linux based OS, it can't quite be said "It's good because it's Linux." It would still be more accurate to say "It's good in spite of being Linux" because at the moment, a successful consumer Linux OS doesn't fix all the others that we know and love.

    1. Re:More predictable "nyah-nyah" and defensiveness. by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      at the moment, a successful consumer Linux OS doesn't fix all the others that we know and love.

      Imho, the first fairly successful consumer Linux was Ubuntu 8.04, released two years ago. At any rate, it was the first Linux distro that my 70y/o, tech-illiterate mother could use (she says it's easier than Windows). But really, the Gnome desktop has been user friendly for several years -- what made Ubuntu 8.04 truly consumer-usable, was that Dell installed it at the factory. No funky driver issues, no editing files under /etc just to make the damn thing work.

    2. Re:More predictable "nyah-nyah" and defensiveness. by erroneus · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure "user friendly" means everything you think it means. The user interface is only part of the equation. Other aspects are the availability of applications and ability to use and configure hardware. By extension, the availability of techs who can work with your computer is another aspect that is rarely discussed.

      Apple addresses the latter question with their genius program. If you are reasonably close to an Apple store, you have access to geniuses. Applications are somewhat less available but available enough for many.

      The unfortunate reality is that the measure to compare to is Microsoft Windows. Not quite "Does it run windows programs?" so much as "can it do what Windows does?" And more to the point of hardware support is that while there is quite literally more hardware supported under Linux than under contemporary Windows, it still often takes some tweaking to get it right. (For most of us, the tweaking is part of the fun!) And frankly the biggest hurdle Linux has to overcome is the fact that it's not Windows and it's still not known. Apple is at least known to people.

    3. Re:More predictable "nyah-nyah" and defensiveness. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but, the Iphone is still the best easiest to use "phone" around.
      As a workstation it is severely limited but as phone that is able access MS Exchange and Google maps map and a reasonable camera and haps of other tricks it is brilliant.

      I support about a dozen of these things at works and they are less effort to support than any other phone.

      Also the battery life is great, there were a few early issues but they are long gone.

  51. Re:Every wall has two sides- volume does equal cho by yacc143 · · Score: 1

    Reality is, that a jailbroken iPhone is not really feeling right. It's a closed platform that you've cracked. It can be bricked anytime, by just clicking the wrong button in iTunes.

    It's one of very very few phones that come only with specific carriers.

    you can easily compare it for tethering:

      * the iPhone of my wife learned to tether when she decided to pay the carrier extra so that the carrier enabled it. No other option at the time was viable, because her phone was rather unjailbreakable for quite some time.

      * the G1 of mine, I had basic tethering working on the first day that I've picked it up. (Long, long before I decided to root it.)

    Same thing goes for changing SIMs. My wife has been locked to one carrier till she managed to jailbreak her phone. I, OTOH, do travel often, hence I've got a box with a varying number of SIM cards, seldom less than 5. Hint: Switching cards worked on day 1 too, quite well.

    The UI is another thing. Hard as it sounds, while the iPhone does have colorful and nice to look at UI, it's rather unergonomic. (ergonomic btw is not "easy-to-use", look it up) No multitasking. No way to have an IM client that is not server based (basically a 3rd party that reads my "mail"), and even that has been for years impossible at all. No hardware keyboard (ever considered, that touch screens, or even keys that change dynamically meaning, are a really bad thing in situations where you cannot concentrate fully, including full use of vision, on the device?), and so on.

    Yeah, it's not politically correct, to yell "the emperor is naked", but the UI of the iPhone is at best mediocre, because it's hindered by so many limitations from the onset.

    Not that the Android UI is perfect, but you'll notice it's problems are related more to polish, and not to fundamental decisions early on.

  52. smelly business? by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    Maybe because that business reeks too much?

    Same reason the iphone isn't called iOdorize.

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  53. Am I missing something? by ewrong · · Score: 1

    I don't understand why you would need a wi-fi "finder" app on an iPhone, the thing does a pretty good job of finding them by itself.

    I was in Paris a while back and needed to send a quick email, just flicked to the wireless settings page walked fifty yards down the road watching all the networks scrolling by until one popped up without a lock symbol next to it.

    1. Re:Am I missing something? by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      So you approve of Apple removing any app, or entire class of apps, that you do not personally use? Why do we want Apple to decide what we do and don't "need"?

    2. Re:Am I missing something? by ewrong · · Score: 1

      I stated no approval, just pondered the value of such apps.

  54. Removal by igor123 · · Score: 1

    I for one have to agree with apple's removal of those apps. I dont know how those apps slipped trough review process , but it created uneven plain-field among developers. I dont mind hard work but i mind when i dont have same treatment as some other developer , i suspect decision to pull those apps was made because complaints from other developers or bug reports, even change in that api might be a reason for application being pulled! Company or developer made calculated risk when they used private api in their application, and suspect their risk was wary well payed off.

    1. Re:Removal by Flowstone · · Score: 1

      the whole private api bit is probably a cop out, a card they finally pulled and played to placate cellphone providers.

    2. Re:Removal by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      the whole private api bit is probably a cop out, a card they finally pulled and played to placate cellphone providers.

      ...because, without those apps, an iPhone cannot possibly find Wi-Fi networks, so you're forced to use GPRS/EDGE/HS*PA everywhere. Oh, wait....

  55. But there are legit uses for some of that software by Phoenix · · Score: 2, Informative

    I use WiFiFoFum at my hospital to check the strength of the Wireless AP's scattered through the floors. At the moment I'm using it on a Intermec CN3 handheld scanner that we're using for Medicine scanning and verification. I wanted to get an iTouch or an iPhone so I could use it on that device since I may or may not be able to keep the CN3 that I'm currently using as my dedicated Test Platform.

    By denying us access to such tools, Apple is alienating the IT Professional community and may drive us to find other applications or even (in their eyes) worse, jail-breaking the damn things so we CAN run whatever the hell we want and not what THEY want us to run.

    Remember the days when we used to mock Microsoft and their advertisements by saying "Microsoft: You WILL go here today!"?

    --
    -- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
  56. How to work around drawbacks of XNA? by tepples · · Score: 1
    I would develop for XNA if I could solve these problems:
    1. My Windows PC is too old to run Visual Studio 2008, on which XNA Game Studio is based. The effort to get XNA running in Mono has stalled.
    2. I have decided not to buy an Xbox 360 until Microsoft has finally solved red ring of death and other issues that make its hardware less reliable than, say, a Wii or an Aspire Revo. Has it?
    3. No runtime audio synthesis means I'd have to hire voice actors and bloat my binary instead of using speech synthesis to read game characters' lines.
    4. The ban on text or speech in an unsupported language means the characters in the hidden elf village can't speak an elvish language.
  57. North American video game recession of 1983 by tepples · · Score: 1

    At least Apple has a reasonable excuse: their phone has to work on a cell network, and it needs to have restrictions placed on software. Game consoles have no such excuse.

    Video game console makers' excuse is that they don't want their consoles to fall victim to an event like the North American video game recession of 1983.

  58. Try Settings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please correct my ignorance...

    Wi-Fi sniffers alert you when you are in range of a wifi signal.

    I do this all the time with an app from Apple. Go to Settings > WiFi . It will tell you all the Wifi networks around you. If you cant see or dont know the ssid then you probably arent supposed to be on the network. Please explain the other benefits of a third party wifi sniffer....

    Also I noted some people chatting about how the iphone is better because of all the apps. I'm a mac guy, and we need to look at this. Remember the mac/pc argument...

    "X86 computers have all the software! There aren't any games for the mac, no way i'm using one!"

    a plethora of software does not make a good product...

  59. Apple's submission tools aren't static by NameIsDavid · · Score: 1

    Everyone who's had an app pulled from the store has known beforehand that they were doing something risky and were counting on using public opinion as their insurance policy. The prohibition against using private APIs is right in the developer agreement and Apple's submission tools have become increasingly sophisticated so that some apps that made it through at one point are now being flagged. There's no risk of doing this by mistake as Apple's API docs are extensive. If you don't see the desired class documented there, it's not intended for your use and you probably reverse-engineered the OS to find it in the first place.

  60. Sex apps not removed by Brian+Kendig · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile, among the Top Free Apps in the iTunes App Store right now are "Sex Positions Game - 18+ Free" (#5), "69 Positions Lite - Sex Positions" (#8), and "Adult Sex Trick" (#25). What was this about Apple removing all sexual content from the App Store?

  61. Re:Every wall has two sides- volume does equal cho by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

    Who wants to developer only for a hacked platform, with just a few million users - and where the number is very much a vague uncertain estimate?

    (When there's a story about an Iphone virus, no doubt you or someone else will be saying it's irrelevant, because it only applies to jailbroken phones...)

    Anything you can name, it's been done on the iPhone - and usually first.

    3G? Copy/paste? Internet access? Mapping software? Multitasking? MMS? Video recording? Java?

  62. Wi-Fi Could Lead Thieves Right to Your Laptop by i621148 · · Score: 1

    I love WiFiFoFum. I use it all the time because I don't have a data plan. I think the reason they are removing them is there is recently some news story about how people are using wifi finders to find laptops located in cars and steal them. http://www.pcworld.com/article/190674/wifi_could_lead_thieves_right_to_your_laptop.html

    1. Re:Wi-Fi Could Lead Thieves Right to Your Laptop by Flowstone · · Score: 1

      that would naturally mean that you would have to have your laptop on, and broadcasting through wifi, to some extent. i don't know of anyone who would leave their laptop on and running, and then leave it in their car unattended.

  63. Re:But there are legit uses for some of that softw by BooTy6 · · Score: 1

    At the Wireless Geographic Logging Engine (wigle.net), a database and mapping system for "Net Stumbling" or "War Driving" hobbyists, we've seen the iPhone provide a low barrier-to-entry for this hobby. It combines a GPS with a Wifi radio, but it can only work when apps like Wifi-Where, WiFiFoFum and others are allowed to exist.

    These apps were inspected for months before finally getting through the nebulous App Store approval process. Some have been available for months or even years. Now, arbitrarily, they are banned. If they use API calls that Apple didn't want them to, why were they approved? Why weren't the developers contacted behind the scenes to address any fiddly technical issues Apple might foresee?

    As users all we see is a useful app, that was paid for, that now can not be updated. We can't find the least used frequency channels to set our access points to, can't take surveys of campus wireless coverage or find rogue wifi on a corporate network. And we can't help with wireless mapping projects. There's no app for that.

  64. Was a matter of time by Flowstone · · Score: 1
    The main bread and butter made on smartphones by the cursed cellular providers was the whole dataplan bit.

    When you didn't opt for a dataplan, your iphone would still attempt to reach out through 3g for data. This would eventually add up on your bill and they'd make their crooked money by having the iphone ping the datanetwork everytime you brought it out of sleep mode. regardless of whether you were on a wifi, it continuously attempts this every chance it gets.

    For those users who didn't want to give the providers money for nothing useful at all, they wanted to use the wifi as the primary means of data transmission. and after changing the api of the datanetwork defaults on the phone to a "fake" one, they were completely free of the bullshit that is normally involved with not signing up for a contract and being alienated by their provider.

    these wifi apps empowered the user to make the most out of their wifi on their phone, which made it "easier" to opt out of the seemingly obligated contracts and dataplans. resulting ultimately in less money for the greedy bastards.

    So im sure that they all bitched and moaned incessantly to apple crying about how those wifi apps are the devil and the user shouldn't have things so easy. now apple, naturally wanting to "improve" their relations with the companies; fucked the customer's choices because they see very little to no consequence over removing that group of apps.

    I actually haven't jailbroken my iphone, because i believe in choice and paying for apps that deserve my money. I have however disabled my 3g data, and don't ever plan on caving in to getting a "convenient" dataplan.

    Now that those apps have been taken from me as a choice, i am more prone to consider jailbreaking my phone so that i don't have to bend to whatever whim apple decides to take.

    in the end, every move they make to control our choices; will push us to take our freedoms back. and if any developers' wallets get harmed in the process, it's apple's fault.

  65. Re:Every wall has two sides- volume does equal cho by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

    Unless again, you consider reality. Reality includes Jailbroken iPhones, which at last count (sometime early last year) was around 3-4 MILLION devices (ad tracking agencies help verify those numbers, but that number is from the founder of Cydia).

    And I taped my iphone to my car so it now drives me to work!

    --
    Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  66. Re:Welcome, Comrades! by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    You forgot one:

    Simplicity is power!

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  67. Vetting for security only? by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one who would like to see an app store where the applications are vetted for security -- i.e. will this app install backdoors in my phone, steal my identity, etc -- but otherwise allowed totally open access? I personally don't care if there are dumb, broken, offensive, duplicate, etc apps; because they might be of service to someone, even if not to me.

  68. Re:But there are legit uses for some of that softw by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

    If they use API calls that Apple didn't want them to, why were they approved?

    Perhaps because the review process isn't as good as it should be?

    There's no app for that.

    There's no supported stable API for that (in iPhone OS or in Mac OS X). (Yes, I think it would be nice if there were. I'm not about to say "Apple should ship what they have now", however.)

  69. Re:Every wall has two sides- volume does equal cho by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ergonomic btw is not "easy-to-use", look it up) No multitasking.

    You're telling me to "look up" ergonomic, then claiming it means "multitasking"?

    Since you are so keen on "looking up" things, lets look at the actual definition:

    "The applied science of equipment design, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by reducing operator fatigue and discomfort. Also called biotechnology, human engineering, human factors engineering."

    Please enlighten us as to how the kinds of multitasking not allowed by third party iPhone apps (because the iPhone does support multitasking, and some form of that for third party apps) help in those regards.

    Not that the Android UI is perfect, but you'll notice it's problems are related more to polish, and not to fundamental decisions early on.

    Actually both, like the mandate of the Four buttons being a fundamental design mistake at the outset. Really kills an Android tablet. Apple made many more intelligent design choices up front and over time they are reaping the benefit of that.

    Because the thing you are missing, is that the ONLY limitations the iPhone really has are things Apple can simply REMOVE from the system. That is the real secret, Apple can allow something to work when they feel like they have how it should work well thought out. The fact that you can do anything with a jailbroken iPhone you can with Android shows this to be true. You can already do more things with an iPhone today than you could at launch, Apple simply opens the platform more slowly but also more thoughtfully.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  70. Need some app management? by pomerane · · Score: 1

    Need to delete apps? There's an app for that. It's called my Trash bin.

  71. Oh no! by Sunnz · · Score: 1

    Oh no! Can they actually hack into my phone and remove that app since they have removed it from the app store?