Slashdot Mirror
EA Editor Criticizes Command & Conquer 4 DRM
Command & Conquer 4's DRM hasn't garnered Electronic Arts as much bad press and fan outrage as Ubisoft's scheme, despite being very similar. Nevertheless, it's been causing problems and frustrations for some users, including EA.com's own editor-in-chief, Jeff Green. An anonymous reader points this out:
"Green wrote on his Twitter account late last week: 'Booted twice — and progress lost — on my single-player C&C4 game because my DSL connection blinked. DRM fail. We need new solutions.' He continued later, 'Well. I've tried to be open-minded. But my 'net connection is finicky — and the constant disruption of my C&C4 SP game makes this unplayable. The story is fun, the gameplay is interesting and different at least — but if you suffer from shaky/unreliable DSL — you've been warned.'"
Because A) he is surprisingly honest and B) he will be needing one.
Xbox360 is heavily pirated you know.
So is the Wii.
The only console that haven't been hacked yet, is the PS3.
- Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
Hey Mr. Green, the solution is quite simple and at your fingertips
That patch will fix your broken version of C&C4 ;-)
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Some people can just pay for a better connection; living in the middle of the desert in a Marine Corps barracks leaves me with fewer options.
While I'm more than willing to shell out the cash for a game like C&C4, my internet is horrible (one of the main reasons I like playing SP games so much now) and to make SP games reliant on a constant internet connection means one less sale for them. Ubisoft has already lost my sale on AC2 and now it looks like EA is going to follow in their footsteps.
A shame too because I loved AC and the C&C series.
"Dictator Flakes. They WILL be delicious."
..its likely a planned statement. The guy is supposed to be a "mouthpeice" for the company. I highly doubt he would just up and "go rogue" on EA since its a really good way to lose his job in the long run. More than likely the intent is a bit more subtle. Perhaps to throw the (slow selling) game under the bus for awhile only to result in either a patch after the story is run awhile to ramp up news reaction to the break. Giving them quite a bit of press for having to "listened to the fans" or just allow them to retain cred by trashing a game thats not going anywhere anyway cutting thier losses and putting a good spin on a bad move "hey, it sucks, but we admitted it sucks. So, we're cool and can keep the money you paid us right?" or something along those lines.
I was in my local games shop the other day and I brought this title to the counter. In the queue I noticed it said "requires online connection". So I asked the clerk if it was an online game but he said no. I subsequently put it back in the shelf and walked out of the store.
That's one lost sale EA. I'll buy it when you loose the funky DRM. (I have bought almost every other C&C title)
Assuming, that is, your goal was to destroy the PC as a gaming platform.
How we know is more important than what we know.
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5464114/Command.And.Conquer.4.Tiberian.Twilight-RELOADED
...why i am losing interest in games rapidly.
While i can still play games i bought 15 years ago, there is no guarantee whatsoever that i can play today's games in 15 years. In the past, i got the feeling of really 'owning' a game (well, a non-revokable license to play it, you know what i mean), but now, i can only play it if the publisher is still in business *and* allows me to activate the game, so essentially holding hostage a game i paid good bucks for.
Another reason is that intolerable dlc business, which i still suspect is a mechanism for publishers to hinder the secondhand market, and/or generate 50% more revenue of a game by selling content that (in most cases) might as well have been included in the release.
Then again, maybe it is just me getting older, having kids, etc.
The PC as a gaming platform is done.[...]PS3 offering unparalleled processing power[...]
Can I play every PS3 game in 1080p, 8xAA ? Didn't think so. On my gaming PC, I can. With an Xbox Controller and HDMI output, I can play Batman, GTA, etc. on my HDTV, sitting on my couch, with (far) better graphics than on any so-called Next-gen console. And with the same machine, I can play FPS, CRPGs, and strategy games with proper controllers (mouse/keyboard). Oh, and thanks to Steam's constant stream of special deals, I don't have to pay 50-70€ for each game.
Each time a console's price drops, I've had the temptation to buy one. But each time I quickly remember that I would hardly use it, except for playing the odd exclusive title.
>>Oh, and thanks to Steam's constant stream of special deals, I don't have to pay 50-70 for each game.
The only trouble with Steam is that it requires... an internet connection.
People will say that Steam can run in offline mode, and that's true... as long as there's no patch pending for Steam.
If there is, then when you run Steam offline, it tells you it is trying to patch, and canceling or trying anything else results in it quitting. There's literally no solution until you get internet access again, which really sucks if you're on a laptop without access, or if rain gets into a conduit and your internet goes down for a week, like it did for me last Thanksgiving. I'd just bought Dragon Age, and being unable to play it for an entire week because of Steam's butt fucking retardnessness really turned me off to the platform.
It's been a "known issue" for, oh, since Steam began.
Razor1911 is on it.
Read radical news here
these DRM failures have scared me away from buying games, life is too short.
Much like Sony demonstrated that CDs are fair game for malware deployment, I'm never buying another CD or game again.
My gaming is pretty retro by now, so I can live with it, and the occasional pirated/cracked game.
It's kinda funny that I have more faith in crackers to give me a "clean" product, than i do in the publishers.
I have the money for the odd game i want, but I have exactly zero patience with DRM. Oh and my original Quake and Diablo install discs don't require any kind of activation from a remote server, and should work just fine in another 20 years.
I resemble that remark.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The PC as a gaming platform is done.
Not done, but perhaps we're starting to see the sunset. I gave up on PC gaming when Microsoft moved past Windows XP. I couldn't even get my motorola phone to work on 64 bit Windows Vista or 7 even while following various sets of directions because Microsoft boned the whole driver signing thing, and I hate to dual-boot, so now I just run the handful of games which are both good and fun on Linux.
While the CPU power and abundance of input devices make it an attractive target platform, there are simply too many problems related to software piracy to sustain the PC as a viable platform for much longer.
All the piracy-related problems are actually developer-related problems.
With X-Box supporting all the latest DX technology,
It doesn't. DirectX has moved on from what the Xbox 360 has.
PS3 offering unparalleled processing power,
It doesn't. Not only is the Xbox 360 about as powerful as the PS3, but home PCs are available with vastly more power in all areas today.
and Wii providing an innovative user interface,
Having a remote-shaped replacement for a spaceball is evolutionary, not revolutionary.
DRM? It won't be an issue when the game is keylocked to your personal console and media. You won't even notice the DRM.
Won't be? Microsoft and Sony both have direct-download marketplaces which use this scheme. It's here already.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Consoles and physical media will be the way forward from now. With X-Box supporting all the latest DX technology, PS3 offering unparalleled processing power, and Wii providing an innovative user interface, the time has never been better for game developers to migrate away from the too-open platform of PCs.
Except for students, hobbyists, and studios that are that too small to qualify for a devkit. See also Bob's Game.
I've been stung by this one. There was little (or in fact no) warning in advance of release that the copy protection would take this form and, as this was an EA rather than an Ubisoft game, I didn't assume that it would. So, like a fool, I went and placed a pre-order with an electronic-only retailer.
Of course, the release day comes and various forums explode with news of the DRM. I had already made a decision not to buy any games with Ubisoft-style DRM... and now find myself accidentally in breach of that. I try to get a refund... and fail.
After a few days of unsuccessfully trying for a refund, I give up. I say "ok, I'll see for myself just how bad this is". So I pass up any lingering hopes of a refund and download and install the game. Just getting the launcher to start up is a hassle, as there are assorted known issues with it. Eventually, I figure out that I have to manually update the EA Download Manager (an entirely separate piece of software) before the game will run. Having done all of this, and created an account, I click the button to try to play the game. And get told that the DRM client "cannot connect to the internet". I check my net connection; no problems - I've had an IRC client running the whole time with no interruptions. Ok, maybe it's a router problem... nope, everything's fine there. I check a few forums and find that the solution is "keep trying, it works eventually."
Ok, so I do this. On the 7th or 8th try, it succeeds in logging in (so yes, it's just an inappropriate error message). The game starts, and I marvel at how retro and primative everything feels. Yes, it's defaulted my graphics to 800x600, despite the fact that pretty much every other game around these days will default to my desktop resolution and take a stab at estimating my graphics settings. Ok, no big deal, it only takes a few minutes to change things.
So, time to start the game. I'm only interested in the singleplayer campaign. I don't tend to play non-subscription games online these days; I've long since gotten sick of tolerating the 14 year old pottymouths who infest pretty much any other kind of online play. So you can imagine how delighted I am to find myself in a chatroom full of said lowlifes... on the singleplayer campaign menu. Yes, while I try to read the mission briefing, I have a window open below it full of idiot children amusing themselves in the usual way. Clicking past that, I get into the mission.
I knew from the pre-release reviews (none of which mentioned the DRM) that the C&C gameplay had been radically altered; that base building had gone. I hadn't been massively enthused by this, but I'd decided to give it a go. After all, I got plenty of enjoyment out of Dawn of War 2 and its expansion, even though I would have preferred they stuck to the traditional RTS approach. Anyway, the first couple of C&C4 missions are tutorial type things, which is fine. I'm already starting to worry that we've lost some gameplay depth, but now I've committed my money, I'm determined to give it a go. The first two tutorials are over very quickly. I get into the third, and notice that while it's still a tutorial, it's a good bit longer. 15 minutes into it... disconnected from the server... progress lost.
Fantastic.
It takes me 10 minutes to manage to log into EA's servers again (and this isn't launch day, but several days later). When I get back in, I manage to complete that mission. I then get into the game proper, and choose my faction. Starting the first proper mission (for the Nod faction) my worries about the gameplay really start to grow. There's no robustness to the micro-level combat. You're just dragging a force around from one waypoint to the next. Mid-mission, my objective changes abruptly, from conquest to escort. Before I've really cottoned on to this, the vehicles I'm supposed to escort have wandered off and been destroyed. So I revert to a mid-mission save, and go again. This time, I'm ready for the objective switch. I escort the units across the map. Just as they're a
The annoying part is that it knows a patch is available, but doesn't download it or do anything with it, it just notes the fact, and then refuses to run if the internet goes down before it gets patched. This is a Really Bad Design for a service that supplies single player games. Not quite as bad as the DRM fiascos people are reporting, but it's been an extant issue with Steam (with people complaining about it) for years.
I highly doubt he got a "modchip" for a PS3, unless he got ties in the underground.
There is nothing publicity available about being able to load PS3 Games from images yet.
It's been years since they enabled the PS3 to make backups from your games, but there still isn't a way to run those images.
Not public anyway.
I've heard rumours some of the underground groups have successfully ran certain images, but nothing ready to the public.
- Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
I work on an offshore oil rig. Internet access is available, but not in my cabin. I had HL2 backed up to DVD but couldn't install it without dragging my laptop to where I could get a net connection. Got it all installed from DVD, patched from the net.
Went back to my cabin, and it wouldn't start. Not authorized! I had to get it back to an internet connection, start the games to authorize them, then go back to my cabin. Why the hell didn't it authorize when I installed and updated!!! Was too late to play.
After that, offline mode was fine. But I paid for this shit. It's frustrating. Newer games will be impossible for me, with a connection required all the time.
You damn well can notice DRM on the Xbox 360. I recently had mine die and I sent it back to MS for repair. They sent back a referb unit as per their usual policy. Along with the Xbox was a note telling me to redownload all my DLC so that the licenses on my hard drive would be updated to work with the new console. Well that only works if the jack asses at MS remember to actually transfer the licenses to the new Xbox on their servers, which they failed to do in my case.
It took a lot of poking around but I eventually found xbox.com/drm which gave me proof that they indeed forgot to transfer the licenses and also gave me a way to transfer the licenses to the new Xbox, though you can only do this once per year.
While I was having these DRM issues I could only play DLC games when I was on the account they were purchased on and logged on to Xbox live. As soon as I lost my internet connection (which happened to be having issues around this time) all my DLC games would get the word trial added beside their name. I did a test and brought up the list of all my DLC games, pulled the network cable out of the Xbox and saw the word "Trial" added to the name of every one of my games, top to bottom, one at a time. Event my damn wallpaper disappeared because that was DRMed too.
That said at least they have a tool like xbox.com/drm and at least they do allow you to link your games to a console so they can be played offline once that is achieved. Still, I'm sure this isn't the last I'll see of these issues.
Just patch before you go in offline mode.
You say that Steam requires and internet connection. But then your example is a rare edge-case involving a half-way downloaded patch. It sounds like a bug, and it sounds annoying, but it isn't the same as saying that steam requires an internet connection.
Oh yeah, he'll just get that rainstorm that knocked out his internet to give him a warning next time.
Here's a nifty statistic for you:
Command and Conquer style games I've bought (first sale):
- Command and Conquer
- Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun
- Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun - Firestorm expansion pack
- Command and Conquer: Renegade
- Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
- Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars - Kane's Wrath expansion pack
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2 - Yuri's Revenge expansion pack
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3
- Command and Conquer: Generals
- Command and Conquer: Generals - Zero Hour expansion pack
Command and Conquer style games I won't be buying because of DRM restrictions on single-player gameplay:
- Command and Conquer 4: Tiberium Twilight
So, there you have it. One guaranteed, demonstrable lost sale because of your choice to implement a ridiculous restriction on single player gameplay. Thanks for reading.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
there are simply too many problems related to software piracy to sustain the PC as a viable platform for much longer.
Yet surprisingly indie gamers, seem to be doing OK releasing PC-only games.
Frankly, I would like the "big boys" to stay out of PC gaming. Let them buy the arguments from their accountants that it's just "not worth" developing or porting to the PC (especially when they have switched over most of their production to producing for consoles first). These large corporations are only milking the same concepts they invented or purchased long ago, in endless boring sequels.
The beauty of the PC is that ANYONE with a compiler can write games. By definition, it will always be among the first platforms to receive truly innovative concepts - because the amount of people who CAN write a game for the PC is so much greater. The "barrier to entry" is much lower. You need no specialized equipment or software. Hell Microsoft even gives away "free trials" of its compilers nowadays. All you need is an idea, and the patience to code it.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
That is the typical scaremongering of the BSA. Although some of the patches have trojans, the idea of using sites like PirateBay and the like where releases are PEER REVIEWED pretty much renders that point moot.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
I don't think it would work.
People can still modify the software to not check for a dongle, or create fake dongles. Dongles work well in a big companies because if the company is caught using unlicensed software it can mean hundreds of millions of dollars. However, some companies will still work around, or demand work arounds, dongles. I wish I could remember where I read a post on this. I read someone talking about an application they developed that used a dongle, but the customer used laptops and dongles were frequently lost in the field so the customer demanded the software without the dongles. The developer company was able to turn the dongle requirement off just for this "special case". If one person can turn off the requirement then so can others.
Individuals are (or at least think) they're more anonymous and don't have that kind of capital anyway. That being said, we've all heard about the cases where the *IAA has taken someone to court and won some X hundred thousand dollars.
While the CPU power and abundance of input devices make it an attractive target platform, there are simply too many problems related to software piracy to sustain the PC as a viable platform for much longer.
Why would there be more problems now than any other time in computer gaming history? There has always been piracy; it was sneakernet and BBSes before the internet came along. The difference is, back in the days of the floppy when Duke Nukem was a squeaky little side scroller, gamers revolted and stopped buying games with any sort of DRM, and DRM went away -- for a decade or two.
Piracy does not cost anybody and actually can cause a company to make even more money, by getting the word out that it's a kickass game. The only people who pirate are those who just want to try it out, and they'll buy it if it's good, and the rest of the pirates aren't going to buy the game anyway and wouldn't even if it was impossible to pirate it, so there aren't any lost sales to pirates. But pirates help sales when their non-pirate friends see the game.
The kicker is, for piracy to help sales of a game, the game has to be good, as opposed to being a piece of shit that the publisher bribes gaming magazines to lie about. Bad games that shouldn't even be on the market are the only ones that piracy will hurt, because the pirates will let everyone know that the game is shit.
If you believe the bullshit the RIAA, MPAA, and BSA spew, I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in buying. DRM only helps games, movies, and music that suck anyway; good media will sell regardless.
Free Martian Whores!
I don't even play games, making me even better than you are. All this fuss over DRM is so silly as it doesn't affect me only you fools. You know what else? Why should we help poor and sick people whilst there are so many healthy rich people? LISTEN TO ME PEOPLE I HAVE THINGS TO SAY ON THE INTERNET! WHY DONT YOU UNDERSTAND HOW RELEVENT I AM TO THE CONVERSATION?
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
I'm pretty sure what he's getting at is this DRM system is failing because it requires you to have an internet connection. Steam, which I do like, also requires an internet connection. Steam is better because it doesn't require a persistent connection. However, If for some reason you don't have an internet connection you can't use steam.
As an example if you work in a remote location like an oil rig, scientific research station, space, etc...
More commonly, if you live in a very rural area you might not have access to the internet or limited access through dial-up.
The issue with Steam and this DRM system is that it is assume everyone who wants to use the product has an internet connection. People know what they're getting into with Steam, but DRM schemes don't have to be listed on the box so you might not even know you need an internet connection to play until you get it home and open it, although I read somewhere else that "internet connection required" is on the box for AC2. I use to live in a rural area and once in a while would drive into the city to buy games, movies and anything else I wanted. It was a long trip and my DRM frustration would have been compounded knowing I'd have to make another 3 hour, each way, trip to return the stupid game, if I could return it at all.
I personally don't have issues with DRMs, I've never had one stop me from playing a game, but it should be very clear when one is used and what DRM it is. My older sisters computer was messed up when she bought Spore, I fixed it for her twice before I read about Spores DRM. That being said I have no evidence that was the problem, I just know that after she gave up on Spore and moved on to other things there was no more issue.
/. mantra "Correlation doesn't mean causation"
Because it's pretty terrible. Well, let me clarify that. If it was some other combat game set in any other universe released for cheap on Steam it would be OK. For a Command and Conquer game it blows.
No base building?
No resource gathering?
No continuity with the previous story?
Did anybody in EA management play any of the other C&C games? Or even know of their existence?
C&C 4 is the Indiana Jones 4 of the gaming world. What is it with 4s?
Renaming (or deleting, if you're feeling adventurous) your clientregistry.blob file should let you work around this bug.
Note: this is also the approved fix for when the system fucks up and you *do* have an internet connection,as happened to me just yesterday. Sigh...
If all you have is a grenade, pretty soon every problem looks like a foxhole -- MightyYar
That's like dumping a fat chick and not keeping her number for a drunken booty call. You know one night, after a bottle of absinthe and half a pack of horse tranquillisers, you're going to regret that.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I'll second this. I'm an avid gamer. Between my Wii, Xbox, PS3, and PC I probably have AT LEAST 500 games. Steam alone has ~150, Impulse ~50, disc-based games (and floppy before) make up the rest. I still have some old SNES (I lost my NES and Atari years ago, somehow only my SNES survived to my adulthood).
That said, I pirate games. Alot. As in, I pirated probably at least 1/2 of my steam collection, and just about every other PC game I own. Why? Because the demos honestly suck. One tutorial level and maybe a random campaign mission? Yea, right.
I pirate it, play it through (If I even get that far, most games don't make it past the 2nd-3rd area/mission), maybe do a skirmish or so to see how well the game balance is, and if I liked it, I buy it. Not just "Oh, I see it's on the bargain bin now for $5" buy it, I mean "Oh, this just came out this week, I pirated and liked it, so here's $50-70, good job guys" buy it. They're not only NOT losing sales due to my piracy, they're GAINING sales.
For instance, I pirated this one RTS game a year or so ago, played a couple campaign missions, did a skirmish. I really liked it, and bought it. At the same time, I gave my friends (Who I regularly game with) copies of the game and told them if they liked it, to buy it and we'd all play together. Not only did I manage to convince them to buy the game, but we all also bought the expansions.
Now, I know that there's only anecdotal evidence here, but what I'm saying is that the game company got $350 ($70 each for game + exp * 5) because I pirated the game, rather than $0 if I hadn't. I just wouldn't have really bothered with it unless it really caught my eye somehow, and I definitely wouldn't have talked a few friends into buying copies.
Conversely, this new DRM stuff (Tages, Starforce, etc) is so obnoxious, I just won't even bother pirating the games, because I won't be buying them. I simply don't have enough time to play ALL the games out there, so I really don't mind too much if I miss out on one or two titles - even if I was looking forward to them, as was the case with anno 1404. TAGES? Blah, not even a pirate from me. Sad that I couldn't play it? Sorta. I've looked at videos and it's just a rehash of the previous games. Nothing really new to see here, moving on.. :)