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EA Editor Criticizes Command & Conquer 4 DRM
Command & Conquer 4's DRM hasn't garnered Electronic Arts as much bad press and fan outrage as Ubisoft's scheme, despite being very similar. Nevertheless, it's been causing problems and frustrations for some users, including EA.com's own editor-in-chief, Jeff Green. An anonymous reader points this out:
"Green wrote on his Twitter account late last week: 'Booted twice — and progress lost — on my single-player C&C4 game because my DSL connection blinked. DRM fail. We need new solutions.' He continued later, 'Well. I've tried to be open-minded. But my 'net connection is finicky — and the constant disruption of my C&C4 SP game makes this unplayable. The story is fun, the gameplay is interesting and different at least — but if you suffer from shaky/unreliable DSL — you've been warned.'"
Because A) he is surprisingly honest and B) he will be needing one.
Isn't pirating for consoles still doable? If we stop making PC games will the pirates do the same for the consoles as they have done for the PC, if they're not already doing it?
Xbox360 is heavily pirated you know.
So is the Wii.
The only console that haven't been hacked yet, is the PS3.
- Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
Hey Mr. Green, the solution is quite simple and at your fingertips
That patch will fix your broken version of C&C4 ;-)
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Not to mention the added value to GNP by having us all purchase a console or two for gaming and a PC for work (not to mention a few televisions) instead of just one PC. The Crisis of Capitalism will be over! The only ones who can be against must be banker-commie-hippie-traitor-pirate-terrorist-cultist-atheist scum of the Earth.
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
I wouldn't be so sure about that. http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/01/25/0654253
Interesting. I, however, will be continuing to play open source games which do not require me to buy an entire new computer just to play them.
Some people can just pay for a better connection; living in the middle of the desert in a Marine Corps barracks leaves me with fewer options.
While I'm more than willing to shell out the cash for a game like C&C4, my internet is horrible (one of the main reasons I like playing SP games so much now) and to make SP games reliant on a constant internet connection means one less sale for them. Ubisoft has already lost my sale on AC2 and now it looks like EA is going to follow in their footsteps.
A shame too because I loved AC and the C&C series.
"Dictator Flakes. They WILL be delicious."
Had me going until I read the account name. Good one BadAnalogyGuy.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
"too-open platform of PCs."
Damn you're horribly misinformed. Security through obscurity never works and DRM is the gaming industry shooting themselves in the foot; they are bitting the hand that feeds. If the gaming industry wants money, all they have to do is make games that aren't shit. And lately, that has been an epic fail on there part. Just yet another reason why the industry is screwing up. There's nothing like spending millions on a piece of crap that no-one will want. Not to mention releasing so early, not only is the game itself crap, it's a buggy as all hell as well. So, a constantly freezing/weird shit going on, piece of crap.
But, hey. Why bother with facts. Let's just do what the gaming industry is doing and blame piracy.
..its likely a planned statement. The guy is supposed to be a "mouthpeice" for the company. I highly doubt he would just up and "go rogue" on EA since its a really good way to lose his job in the long run. More than likely the intent is a bit more subtle. Perhaps to throw the (slow selling) game under the bus for awhile only to result in either a patch after the story is run awhile to ramp up news reaction to the break. Giving them quite a bit of press for having to "listened to the fans" or just allow them to retain cred by trashing a game thats not going anywhere anyway cutting thier losses and putting a good spin on a bad move "hey, it sucks, but we admitted it sucks. So, we're cool and can keep the money you paid us right?" or something along those lines.
I was in my local games shop the other day and I brought this title to the counter. In the queue I noticed it said "requires online connection". So I asked the clerk if it was an online game but he said no. I subsequently put it back in the shelf and walked out of the store.
That's one lost sale EA. I'll buy it when you loose the funky DRM. (I have bought almost every other C&C title)
Assuming, that is, your goal was to destroy the PC as a gaming platform.
How we know is more important than what we know.
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5464114/Command.And.Conquer.4.Tiberian.Twilight-RELOADED
...why i am losing interest in games rapidly.
While i can still play games i bought 15 years ago, there is no guarantee whatsoever that i can play today's games in 15 years. In the past, i got the feeling of really 'owning' a game (well, a non-revokable license to play it, you know what i mean), but now, i can only play it if the publisher is still in business *and* allows me to activate the game, so essentially holding hostage a game i paid good bucks for.
Another reason is that intolerable dlc business, which i still suspect is a mechanism for publishers to hinder the secondhand market, and/or generate 50% more revenue of a game by selling content that (in most cases) might as well have been included in the release.
Then again, maybe it is just me getting older, having kids, etc.
And you still can't pirate with PS3, which is the point. It also took 3 years for that hack to come up too and probably more until you can actually get the games running.
The PC as a gaming platform is done.[...]PS3 offering unparalleled processing power[...]
Can I play every PS3 game in 1080p, 8xAA ? Didn't think so. On my gaming PC, I can. With an Xbox Controller and HDMI output, I can play Batman, GTA, etc. on my HDTV, sitting on my couch, with (far) better graphics than on any so-called Next-gen console. And with the same machine, I can play FPS, CRPGs, and strategy games with proper controllers (mouse/keyboard). Oh, and thanks to Steam's constant stream of special deals, I don't have to pay 50-70€ for each game.
Each time a console's price drops, I've had the temptation to buy one. But each time I quickly remember that I would hardly use it, except for playing the odd exclusive title.
>>Oh, and thanks to Steam's constant stream of special deals, I don't have to pay 50-70 for each game.
The only trouble with Steam is that it requires... an internet connection.
People will say that Steam can run in offline mode, and that's true... as long as there's no patch pending for Steam.
If there is, then when you run Steam offline, it tells you it is trying to patch, and canceling or trying anything else results in it quitting. There's literally no solution until you get internet access again, which really sucks if you're on a laptop without access, or if rain gets into a conduit and your internet goes down for a week, like it did for me last Thanksgiving. I'd just bought Dragon Age, and being unable to play it for an entire week because of Steam's butt fucking retardnessness really turned me off to the platform.
It's been a "known issue" for, oh, since Steam began.
Razor1911 is on it.
Read radical news here
> the constant disruption of my C&C4 SP game makes this unplayable
So how is the producer of the game get the message via free market tools, when EULA's as well as store policies prohibit the return of 'opened' games? From what I can tell for at least this user above the product is clearly defective. It relies on the non-defectiveness of things outside the package, such as his ISP etc.. Yet I am sure they will not give him a return/refund because they'll disagree about the defectiveness of the game. But is this even enforcible? I'd say, something like this needs to go to court eventually!
This has been a great year for PC gaming. There's still a lot of money to be made in making and releasing games for PC. I doubt very much that game manufacturers are going to leave that money on the table just because some people are copying those games illegally.
You are welcome on my lawn.
these DRM failures have scared me away from buying games, life is too short.
Much like Sony demonstrated that CDs are fair game for malware deployment, I'm never buying another CD or game again.
My gaming is pretty retro by now, so I can live with it, and the occasional pirated/cracked game.
It's kinda funny that I have more faith in crackers to give me a "clean" product, than i do in the publishers.
I have the money for the odd game i want, but I have exactly zero patience with DRM. Oh and my original Quake and Diablo install discs don't require any kind of activation from a remote server, and should work just fine in another 20 years.
I resemble that remark.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The pirates won't notice the DRM either.
I just went to look at a popular private tracker (for informational purposes only) and saw that more than half the list of top 50 games for download are for consoles.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The PC as a gaming platform is done.
Not done, but perhaps we're starting to see the sunset. I gave up on PC gaming when Microsoft moved past Windows XP. I couldn't even get my motorola phone to work on 64 bit Windows Vista or 7 even while following various sets of directions because Microsoft boned the whole driver signing thing, and I hate to dual-boot, so now I just run the handful of games which are both good and fun on Linux.
While the CPU power and abundance of input devices make it an attractive target platform, there are simply too many problems related to software piracy to sustain the PC as a viable platform for much longer.
All the piracy-related problems are actually developer-related problems.
With X-Box supporting all the latest DX technology,
It doesn't. DirectX has moved on from what the Xbox 360 has.
PS3 offering unparalleled processing power,
It doesn't. Not only is the Xbox 360 about as powerful as the PS3, but home PCs are available with vastly more power in all areas today.
and Wii providing an innovative user interface,
Having a remote-shaped replacement for a spaceball is evolutionary, not revolutionary.
DRM? It won't be an issue when the game is keylocked to your personal console and media. You won't even notice the DRM.
Won't be? Microsoft and Sony both have direct-download marketplaces which use this scheme. It's here already.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Not to mention the added value to GNP by having us all purchase a console or two for gaming and a PC for work (not to mention a few televisions) instead of just one PC.
Just one PC? Ordinarily, if you want more than one player, you have to buy a separate PC and a separate copy of each game for each person in the house.
With an Xbox Controller and HDMI output, I can play Batman, GTA, etc. on my HDTV, sitting on my couch, with (far) better graphics than on any so-called Next-gen console.
Does your "etc." include proper counterparts to Super Smash Bros. series, Mario Kart series, and Animal Crossing series? I'd like to know what PC games you recommend for fans of these Nintendo-exclusive franchises.
Consoles and physical media will be the way forward from now. With X-Box supporting all the latest DX technology, PS3 offering unparalleled processing power, and Wii providing an innovative user interface, the time has never been better for game developers to migrate away from the too-open platform of PCs.
Except for students, hobbyists, and studios that are that too small to qualify for a devkit. See also Bob's Game.
I, however, will be continuing to play open source games
Even a game that uses an open-source engine can still have DRM. The game doesn't run without the assets (meshes, textures, maps, audio, etc.), and the assets don't get decrypted without the separate executable that enforces the DRM and sends the decrypted assets over a local socket to the game.
which do not require me to buy an entire new computer just to play them.
They might not require you to buy a new computer, but a lot of PC games require other people in your household to buy separate PCs in order to play multiplayer.
now, [PC] games from 1995 to about 2000 were all Win9x abominations that won't work.. unless you've still got an old machine lying around with win98
But do they work in Wine? Or have you tried the PlayStation versions in an emulator?
"The game is fine. It's your hardware that is defective."
I bought the hardware from your store. It obviously has a defect because it won't run this game. Will you take the hardware back too? Here are my extended service plan papers.
They are doing the same crap to the consoles too. Testing the waters with DLC that is only available via the code in the new game box. Right now it's fluff crap that nobody really cares about (ME2: none of the DLC is useful at all, it's all worthless) but it will change, like 1/2 the game being a DLC that is locked to a user.
It's crap like this that makes me think the pirates have the right idea and are justified. I'm a legit customer, and I get reamed in the butt without lube by the company I bought from. That makes me want to say "screw you" and pirate the stuff next time.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I've been stung by this one. There was little (or in fact no) warning in advance of release that the copy protection would take this form and, as this was an EA rather than an Ubisoft game, I didn't assume that it would. So, like a fool, I went and placed a pre-order with an electronic-only retailer.
Of course, the release day comes and various forums explode with news of the DRM. I had already made a decision not to buy any games with Ubisoft-style DRM... and now find myself accidentally in breach of that. I try to get a refund... and fail.
After a few days of unsuccessfully trying for a refund, I give up. I say "ok, I'll see for myself just how bad this is". So I pass up any lingering hopes of a refund and download and install the game. Just getting the launcher to start up is a hassle, as there are assorted known issues with it. Eventually, I figure out that I have to manually update the EA Download Manager (an entirely separate piece of software) before the game will run. Having done all of this, and created an account, I click the button to try to play the game. And get told that the DRM client "cannot connect to the internet". I check my net connection; no problems - I've had an IRC client running the whole time with no interruptions. Ok, maybe it's a router problem... nope, everything's fine there. I check a few forums and find that the solution is "keep trying, it works eventually."
Ok, so I do this. On the 7th or 8th try, it succeeds in logging in (so yes, it's just an inappropriate error message). The game starts, and I marvel at how retro and primative everything feels. Yes, it's defaulted my graphics to 800x600, despite the fact that pretty much every other game around these days will default to my desktop resolution and take a stab at estimating my graphics settings. Ok, no big deal, it only takes a few minutes to change things.
So, time to start the game. I'm only interested in the singleplayer campaign. I don't tend to play non-subscription games online these days; I've long since gotten sick of tolerating the 14 year old pottymouths who infest pretty much any other kind of online play. So you can imagine how delighted I am to find myself in a chatroom full of said lowlifes... on the singleplayer campaign menu. Yes, while I try to read the mission briefing, I have a window open below it full of idiot children amusing themselves in the usual way. Clicking past that, I get into the mission.
I knew from the pre-release reviews (none of which mentioned the DRM) that the C&C gameplay had been radically altered; that base building had gone. I hadn't been massively enthused by this, but I'd decided to give it a go. After all, I got plenty of enjoyment out of Dawn of War 2 and its expansion, even though I would have preferred they stuck to the traditional RTS approach. Anyway, the first couple of C&C4 missions are tutorial type things, which is fine. I'm already starting to worry that we've lost some gameplay depth, but now I've committed my money, I'm determined to give it a go. The first two tutorials are over very quickly. I get into the third, and notice that while it's still a tutorial, it's a good bit longer. 15 minutes into it... disconnected from the server... progress lost.
Fantastic.
It takes me 10 minutes to manage to log into EA's servers again (and this isn't launch day, but several days later). When I get back in, I manage to complete that mission. I then get into the game proper, and choose my faction. Starting the first proper mission (for the Nod faction) my worries about the gameplay really start to grow. There's no robustness to the micro-level combat. You're just dragging a force around from one waypoint to the next. Mid-mission, my objective changes abruptly, from conquest to escort. Before I've really cottoned on to this, the vehicles I'm supposed to escort have wandered off and been destroyed. So I revert to a mid-mission save, and go again. This time, I'm ready for the objective switch. I escort the units across the map. Just as they're a
The annoying part is that it knows a patch is available, but doesn't download it or do anything with it, it just notes the fact, and then refuses to run if the internet goes down before it gets patched. This is a Really Bad Design for a service that supplies single player games. Not quite as bad as the DRM fiascos people are reporting, but it's been an extant issue with Steam (with people complaining about it) for years.
I was cured by Red Altert 3, where they did or did not remove the drm afterwards. After 6 month being installed on my machine and fully patched it refuses to start anymore (drm error). There isn't even an offcial customer support for that game, you have to go throught your retailer or rely on the community. Reinstall, few GB patch and try again is the common solution.
:(
I am not buying from EA anymore...
It is sad about the game
Democracy as a form of government is done. While the lack of corruption and abundance of liberty make it an attractive target platform, there are simply too many problems related to iron-fisted political control to sustain democracy as a viable platform for much longer.
Oppression? It won't be an issue when you are keylocked to your personal console and media. You won't even notice the oppression.
Funny how easily that translates... Also, whoever thought "strong" was a good replacement for the "b" tag obviously never wrote HTML by hand, the jerk.
When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
I don't have this problem, I haven't been buying new games at all. They just aren't worth the price to me and yet I can't get enough of old games I can fire up under Wine or Dosbox.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Possibly, but he isn't playing them, and no there isn't. There are however people that will sell you a solution for pirating PS3 games. They usually stand next to the guy that sells you bridges.
I highly doubt he got a "modchip" for a PS3, unless he got ties in the underground.
There is nothing publicity available about being able to load PS3 Games from images yet.
It's been years since they enabled the PS3 to make backups from your games, but there still isn't a way to run those images.
Not public anyway.
I've heard rumours some of the underground groups have successfully ran certain images, but nothing ready to the public.
- Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
Are you paid to say this? You sound like an advertisement.
"With X-Box supporting all the latest DX technology, PS3 offering unparalleled processing power, and Wii providing an innovative user interface, the time has never been better for game developers"
And c'mon, while all the above are pretty good, it still can't match the potential of the PC:
Latest DX: PC is on DX11
PS3 processing power: Seriously? Core i7/ATI 5870. Nuff said.
Wii: The gimmick gets old. Back to what actually works: buttons on a controller. But I'm sure of PC's millions of peripherals they have an alternative.
I work on an offshore oil rig. Internet access is available, but not in my cabin. I had HL2 backed up to DVD but couldn't install it without dragging my laptop to where I could get a net connection. Got it all installed from DVD, patched from the net.
Went back to my cabin, and it wouldn't start. Not authorized! I had to get it back to an internet connection, start the games to authorize them, then go back to my cabin. Why the hell didn't it authorize when I installed and updated!!! Was too late to play.
After that, offline mode was fine. But I paid for this shit. It's frustrating. Newer games will be impossible for me, with a connection required all the time.
You damn well can notice DRM on the Xbox 360. I recently had mine die and I sent it back to MS for repair. They sent back a referb unit as per their usual policy. Along with the Xbox was a note telling me to redownload all my DLC so that the licenses on my hard drive would be updated to work with the new console. Well that only works if the jack asses at MS remember to actually transfer the licenses to the new Xbox on their servers, which they failed to do in my case.
It took a lot of poking around but I eventually found xbox.com/drm which gave me proof that they indeed forgot to transfer the licenses and also gave me a way to transfer the licenses to the new Xbox, though you can only do this once per year.
While I was having these DRM issues I could only play DLC games when I was on the account they were purchased on and logged on to Xbox live. As soon as I lost my internet connection (which happened to be having issues around this time) all my DLC games would get the word trial added beside their name. I did a test and brought up the list of all my DLC games, pulled the network cable out of the Xbox and saw the word "Trial" added to the name of every one of my games, top to bottom, one at a time. Event my damn wallpaper disappeared because that was DRMed too.
That said at least they have a tool like xbox.com/drm and at least they do allow you to link your games to a console so they can be played offline once that is achieved. Still, I'm sure this isn't the last I'll see of these issues.
Say I have a friend who likes Dance Dance Revolution and Guitar Hero. He'd be well served by StepMania and Frets On Fire. But say I have another friend who likes Smash Bros., Mario Kart, and Animal Crossing. What open-source Linux games would you recommend?
isn't a replacement for . is a replacement for . is a semantic markup tag indicating that the text should be represented in a stronger manner than normal text, typically by using a bold font. Fortunately, you can just use on Slashdot when you want bold text.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Or.... you know you could disconnect your computer from the Internet.
My game machine only plays the games that I'm currently interested in. I can wipe it at the drop of a hat. Hacks really don't bother me, I do my browsing and real work on my Macbook.
Just patch before you go in offline mode.
The comparison was with the PS3, so how is the PC any different than is if you want to play Nintendo exclusives?
I apologize for being unclear; I didn't necessarily mean Nintendo exclusives. For example, "a game like Street Fighter" would include King of Fighters and Mortal Kombat, even though each Street Fighter game started out as a CPS exclusive. Likewise, "a game like Super Mario 64" would include the Spyro series, "a game like Halo" would be other first-person shooters with a vaguely similar play style, and "a game like Smash Bros." would be other platform-fighting games. My point is that I don't know of a lot of open-source platform-fighting games, comic racing games (TuxKart looks stuck in the N64 era), social simulators, or even 3D platformers for Linux.
You say that Steam requires and internet connection. But then your example is a rare edge-case involving a half-way downloaded patch. It sounds like a bug, and it sounds annoying, but it isn't the same as saying that steam requires an internet connection.
Oh yeah, he'll just get that rainstorm that knocked out his internet to give him a warning next time.
Here's a nifty statistic for you:
Command and Conquer style games I've bought (first sale):
- Command and Conquer
- Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun
- Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun - Firestorm expansion pack
- Command and Conquer: Renegade
- Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
- Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars - Kane's Wrath expansion pack
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2 - Yuri's Revenge expansion pack
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3
- Command and Conquer: Generals
- Command and Conquer: Generals - Zero Hour expansion pack
Command and Conquer style games I won't be buying because of DRM restrictions on single-player gameplay:
- Command and Conquer 4: Tiberium Twilight
So, there you have it. One guaranteed, demonstrable lost sale because of your choice to implement a ridiculous restriction on single player gameplay. Thanks for reading.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Obviously I'm talking about the times where it's not accidental, but it seems you're going for funnies and not an actual logical argument so it's okay.
People have literally been saying this for 20+ years. Quit being silly, it's just not going to happen.
There is a war going on for your mind.
The USB dongle has been around for years, though I only recall seeing it in association with "professional" applications such as CNC and CAD software. Do you think the gaming world would be receptive of some sort of hardware key for applications with such a low price tag?
Monitor bandwidth usage on IIS6 in real-time: http://www.waetech.com/services/iisbm/
Piracy's an excuse, not the reason.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
notice the little thing at the end of the subject line of that article... its a little thing called a question mark.
Also, if you read the "hack" it's nothing but a guy pissing around in linux, causing a voltage spike allowing him access to pretty much nothing.
You need to gather the encryption keys in order to do anything...
Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
there are simply too many problems related to software piracy to sustain the PC as a viable platform for much longer.
Yet surprisingly indie gamers, seem to be doing OK releasing PC-only games.
Frankly, I would like the "big boys" to stay out of PC gaming. Let them buy the arguments from their accountants that it's just "not worth" developing or porting to the PC (especially when they have switched over most of their production to producing for consoles first). These large corporations are only milking the same concepts they invented or purchased long ago, in endless boring sequels.
The beauty of the PC is that ANYONE with a compiler can write games. By definition, it will always be among the first platforms to receive truly innovative concepts - because the amount of people who CAN write a game for the PC is so much greater. The "barrier to entry" is much lower. You need no specialized equipment or software. Hell Microsoft even gives away "free trials" of its compilers nowadays. All you need is an idea, and the patience to code it.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Oh yeah, he'll just get that rainstorm that knocked out his internet to give him a warning next time.
Done and done.
What does linux have to do with it? What does open-source have to do with it?
It's PC games, a term that refers to games running on MS Windows.
I screwed up. I confused this part of the discussion with another part of this discussion. So what platform fighting game should I play on a PC running Windows? Street Fighter IV is not a platform fighting game because there are no platforms to jump on; the floor is a straight line. And is there any Windows game closer to Animal Crossing than The Sims is?
That is the typical scaremongering of the BSA. Although some of the patches have trojans, the idea of using sites like PirateBay and the like where releases are PEER REVIEWED pretty much renders that point moot.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
While the CPU power and abundance of input devices make it an attractive target platform, there are simply too many problems related to software piracy to sustain the PC as a viable platform for much longer.
Why would there be more problems now than any other time in computer gaming history? There has always been piracy; it was sneakernet and BBSes before the internet came along. The difference is, back in the days of the floppy when Duke Nukem was a squeaky little side scroller, gamers revolted and stopped buying games with any sort of DRM, and DRM went away -- for a decade or two.
Piracy does not cost anybody and actually can cause a company to make even more money, by getting the word out that it's a kickass game. The only people who pirate are those who just want to try it out, and they'll buy it if it's good, and the rest of the pirates aren't going to buy the game anyway and wouldn't even if it was impossible to pirate it, so there aren't any lost sales to pirates. But pirates help sales when their non-pirate friends see the game.
The kicker is, for piracy to help sales of a game, the game has to be good, as opposed to being a piece of shit that the publisher bribes gaming magazines to lie about. Bad games that shouldn't even be on the market are the only ones that piracy will hurt, because the pirates will let everyone know that the game is shit.
If you believe the bullshit the RIAA, MPAA, and BSA spew, I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in buying. DRM only helps games, movies, and music that suck anyway; good media will sell regardless.
Free Martian Whores!
The only reason I can think that their is not more piracy on consoles is the kind of people that use them.
If gaming ever dies, and computer lovers are forced to get a console to play anything good, then the amount of piracy will not change at all (it might even increase).
In general piracy has always been a lot easier on the consoles then on a computer
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
The only trouble with Steam is that it requires... an internet connection.
And who has one of those these days?
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
Everyone knows getting it to work is part of the game. The harder it is to get it working the greater the sense of accomplishment. Why do you think consumers LOVE DRMs so much!!
I'm still waiting for the next batch of Console to come around with no disc slot. Everything gets downloaded over the internet. Possible some proprietary media that works via flash memory. No input ports, not expansion ports, just wireless controllers, and downloadable games. Kind of like the PSP GO, but a full fledged console. It's the only way to make it so that you can't pirate games. I'm not sure if it would fly, but if the big 3 all did it, you wouldn't have much of a choice, except to not play.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I keep windows on my box only for games. I purposefully switched off all network in order keep the viruses out. So now I will not able to play. Thanks. And to think of it, I've legitimatrly bought all C&C series games.
If things start moving more towards console land, how long will it be before consoles get equipped with proper FPS, CRPG and strategy game controllers?
And in the 21st century, we invented virtual machines, so keeping a Win98 install "lying around" means a couple of mouse clicks.
And a lot of hunting on eBay to find a genuine copy of Windows 98 to install in the virtual machine.
You should join us here in the Future
Before or after 2094, when copyright in Windows 98 expires?
I'm not in full agreement with this, I think that DRM can be a good business strategy if done well. Steam has become a fantastic example of this after its troubled early days, the trick is simply to be honest about what it is and offer some benefit to the system to balance the irritation and the risk.
What I really wanted to say though is that the problem of spending millions on a game isn't that the game is crap, just that it isn't worth millions. Cheap indie games that were developed on practically a budget of zero and sell for trivial amounts if they aren't free can do pretty much the same gameplay concepts as any major game. Trying to compete on graphics is an uphill struggle too, and with poorer returns ever since games stopped looking shit.
I honestly think that most large publishers should turn into nothing more than advertising consultants. Sign deals with games studios to generate customers in return for a percentage, and keep all dealings on a per-game basis. No ownership -> no incentive for ridiculous chains of sequels.
my issue with console gaming is....the games i like, i cant play well on a console. RTS games and FPS games require, for me, a keyboard and mouse....i just cant get the knack of a controller well enough to be any good and those, and theyre my favorite types of games.
thing is, with more and more drm creeping in, im about ready to sell my video card and look for a ps3. ive been playing dragon age and just found out that the downloaded content means i cant play *ANY* saved game with said content if im not logged in. my internet connection is pretty reliable....but thats just not acceptable to me.
with half life 2, i ran into the issue where i have a boxed copy but couldnt play because id forgotten how to access my old steam account....it took 3 days and me sending in a picture of the case with another special code to access my account so i could play a game i WAS HOLDING IN MY HAND.
world at war? love that game. love it. despite having to login to access my account to play online, when i had to reinstalled after a windows 7 upgrade...my account had been reset, all my accomplishments etc. i could play...but it was annoying as hell to have to redo everything i had already done.
i dont mind drm to an extent..i get it. requiring the disc can be annoying but fine, whatever, a disc and a key...but making it a pure hassle to play irks me to no end. i should be able to play without a net connection, i have the content, its here legitimately, leave me the fuck alone already.
the only games ive bought in the last few months were cheap games on STEAM specials, where for the $5 or so i figured it was worth it. thing is...i dont have to be on steam to play them all, it has an offline mode.
bah.
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
Here's a better idea...
Don't buy the retail game at all. If you're needing to "break" the game, why give the SOB's cash to begin with? Because you can't not buy the shiny new game that's overpriced and like excrement locked inside of a safe inside of another safe?
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Man, I'm bored of TuxRacer
...but you get to drop the price of a console on a new graphics card every 6 months...!
This is not true. I had that result but the solution was to just disable your ethernet adapter. If steam can't even find an ethernet adapter on your system, it will ask if you want to run offline.
I'm pretty sure what he's getting at is this DRM system is failing because it requires you to have an internet connection. Steam, which I do like, also requires an internet connection. Steam is better because it doesn't require a persistent connection. However, If for some reason you don't have an internet connection you can't use steam.
As an example if you work in a remote location like an oil rig, scientific research station, space, etc...
More commonly, if you live in a very rural area you might not have access to the internet or limited access through dial-up.
The issue with Steam and this DRM system is that it is assume everyone who wants to use the product has an internet connection. People know what they're getting into with Steam, but DRM schemes don't have to be listed on the box so you might not even know you need an internet connection to play until you get it home and open it, although I read somewhere else that "internet connection required" is on the box for AC2. I use to live in a rural area and once in a while would drive into the city to buy games, movies and anything else I wanted. It was a long trip and my DRM frustration would have been compounded knowing I'd have to make another 3 hour, each way, trip to return the stupid game, if I could return it at all.
I personally don't have issues with DRMs, I've never had one stop me from playing a game, but it should be very clear when one is used and what DRM it is. My older sisters computer was messed up when she bought Spore, I fixed it for her twice before I read about Spores DRM. That being said I have no evidence that was the problem, I just know that after she gave up on Spore and moved on to other things there was no more issue.
/. mantra "Correlation doesn't mean causation"
Well, this isn't a rant and it provides a rational review of what is a unmitigated disaster. I'm a C&C fan and I won't be buying this one. I don't buy DRMed games, especially ones as horrible as this one. It's funny, you take the best and most loved franchises and you give us this sort of crap. Outstanding. But they are weaning me off of games, except for the old standbys I have my copies of. And of course, I'll be open to buying it when the DRM is legally stripped out of it.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
"It's also a lot more technical and creates problems with firmware updates"
He's right. While it was common on the last generation of consoles, the PSP was really the beginning of the end of pirating on consoles, since it introduced new firmwares within the games released every few months. The new firmware was required to play that game and new releases, and it would disable whatever hacked firmware was on the device. There has been at least 23 PSP firmware updates since it's release in 2005. These constant updates force pirates to keep hacking the latest firmwares and users to have to keep searching for new updates.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
I fear that instead of releasing new controllers, they'll dumb down games (à la Halo) : huge crosshair or auto-targeting, slow IA, auto-regenerating HPs, ... That's what kids are used to, after all. One more reason for me to stay away from consoles.
Disregarding the various moral, philosophical, first-sale doctrine stuff for a moment.
This thing makes absolutely no practical sense for EA.
The one thing DRM has going for it, from the publisher's point of view, is preventing some guy who bought the game from putting it in the drive and making a few copies for his friends, in the hope that they might buy when that option is unavailable.
Now there's been DRM that's been able to do that for years.
Once someone is committed enough to install something like Alcohol 120% or look for the cracked game online the game is over for DRM.
All a publisher can gain from more draconian DRM is maybe buy themselves a few more days, at the cost of dissatisfaction from customers and now apparently upkeep for servers.
Once the crackers have access to the files it's a matter of personal pride to prove how clever they are, and there will be someone motivated enough and clever enough to break this thing that the publisher spent developers, time, money on, and will have to do so again next time.
So I really don't see an economic reason they would do this.
Am I missing something or are they just misinformed or just wanting to appear as if they're doing something to keep the stockholders at bay?
You damn well can notice DRM on the Xbox 360. I recently had mine die and I sent it back to MS for repair. They sent back a referb unit as per their usual policy. Along with the Xbox was a note telling me to redownload all my DLC so that the licenses on my hard drive would be updated to work with the new console. Well that only works if the jack asses at MS remember to actually transfer the licenses to the new Xbox on their servers, which they failed to do in my case.
Hmm, I don't have much experience with additional-DLC (map-packs, extra levels, characters, gear, etc).
But I recently got myself a new XBox after giving my old one away to a family member a few years ago. Once I logged into Live! I saw it listed all of my purchased Arcade titles that I could download again free-of-charge. The fact I could download wasn't a big surprise, but I did enjoy that it bundled them all together in a single list.
I would've thought they'd implement something similar with additional-DLC, that it would be tied to your Live! account and not your individual console.
But I guess I'm wrong.
For one, there's the second hand game market. DRM does a good job of killing it. Even with Steam, there's no way to sell your old games.
It's a stupid argument too, though; you have to be willing to suffer all of this bad press and associated lost sales in the hopes that you will get extra sales in the tail end of your product's life-cycle.
It also fails to take into account that most people have a certain finite amount of disposable income they're willing to spend on games. I suppose the studio would rather see you spend money on one new game instead of one two used games, but on the other hand the guy who sold those two used games is probably going to take the money and spend it on a new game.
Never said PC gaming was cheap :) Hardware may be more expensive, but as I said I pay (much) less for my games, so if you play a lot of different games as I do, it evens out in the end.
My last upgrade was a GTX275 which I bought almost a year ago, and even new games run fine. And if I turn off FSAA, I'll be able to play 2010 and 2011 games just fine. And I buy most of my games for 20-40€ (last purchase : L4F2 for 25€), or even cheaper as Steam has lots of indie games and oldies for less than 10€ (recently bought BG&E for 5€).
no one has a faster processor or video card that gives them an advantage or an edge in some way
What kind of advantage does a faster CPU/GPU give?
If your system meets the minimum requirements (display/movement is not lagging) the only difference high-end hardware makes is prettyness. (Not saying that prettyness is not important, just not a competitive advantage.)
We both said a lot of things that you are going to regret.
Because it's pretty terrible. Well, let me clarify that. If it was some other combat game set in any other universe released for cheap on Steam it would be OK. For a Command and Conquer game it blows.
No base building?
No resource gathering?
No continuity with the previous story?
Did anybody in EA management play any of the other C&C games? Or even know of their existence?
C&C 4 is the Indiana Jones 4 of the gaming world. What is it with 4s?
Renaming (or deleting, if you're feeling adventurous) your clientregistry.blob file should let you work around this bug.
Note: this is also the approved fix for when the system fucks up and you *do* have an internet connection,as happened to me just yesterday. Sigh...
If all you have is a grenade, pretty soon every problem looks like a foxhole -- MightyYar
But I won't buy an Ubisoft game. I really really want the Anno game and expansion. Didn't get them.
Same with any Ubisoft game at this point.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Go buy Sega and Sonic All Stars Racing [and] Powerstone Collection for PC
Thanks a lot. I'll look into the games you suggested.
I'll second this. I'm an avid gamer. Between my Wii, Xbox, PS3, and PC I probably have AT LEAST 500 games. Steam alone has ~150, Impulse ~50, disc-based games (and floppy before) make up the rest. I still have some old SNES (I lost my NES and Atari years ago, somehow only my SNES survived to my adulthood).
That said, I pirate games. Alot. As in, I pirated probably at least 1/2 of my steam collection, and just about every other PC game I own. Why? Because the demos honestly suck. One tutorial level and maybe a random campaign mission? Yea, right.
I pirate it, play it through (If I even get that far, most games don't make it past the 2nd-3rd area/mission), maybe do a skirmish or so to see how well the game balance is, and if I liked it, I buy it. Not just "Oh, I see it's on the bargain bin now for $5" buy it, I mean "Oh, this just came out this week, I pirated and liked it, so here's $50-70, good job guys" buy it. They're not only NOT losing sales due to my piracy, they're GAINING sales.
For instance, I pirated this one RTS game a year or so ago, played a couple campaign missions, did a skirmish. I really liked it, and bought it. At the same time, I gave my friends (Who I regularly game with) copies of the game and told them if they liked it, to buy it and we'd all play together. Not only did I manage to convince them to buy the game, but we all also bought the expansions.
Now, I know that there's only anecdotal evidence here, but what I'm saying is that the game company got $350 ($70 each for game + exp * 5) because I pirated the game, rather than $0 if I hadn't. I just wouldn't have really bothered with it unless it really caught my eye somehow, and I definitely wouldn't have talked a few friends into buying copies.
Conversely, this new DRM stuff (Tages, Starforce, etc) is so obnoxious, I just won't even bother pirating the games, because I won't be buying them. I simply don't have enough time to play ALL the games out there, so I really don't mind too much if I miss out on one or two titles - even if I was looking forward to them, as was the case with anno 1404. TAGES? Blah, not even a pirate from me. Sad that I couldn't play it? Sorta. I've looked at videos and it's just a rehash of the previous games. Nothing really new to see here, moving on.. :)
Is this really that hard to understand?
If they want to screw you, do not buy the game.
Lol such a low UID for such a stupid college kid-esque attitude. There are no PS3 modchips. Thanks for playing.
>>You say that Steam requires and internet connection. But then your example is a rare edge-case involving a half-way downloaded patch.
It's not a halfway downloaded patch. Steam doesn't automatically patch while running - it'll note that there's a patch available, and will patch the next time it loads. So if you've had a computer running for a long time (and new patches come out every couple weeks) odds are you'll have a patch queued. Then when your internet connection goes down and you try to restart steam, you have lost access to all your games.
Like I said, bad design, and not a rare edge case at all. I found lots of people complaining about this, going back years.
>>This is not true. If you disable your ethernet card so that it looks like you do not even have an IP, Steam will prompt to run in offline mode, even if it was formerly applying an update.
I tried this. It doesn't work.
Offline mode doesn't work (in any form) if Steam knows there's a patch queued.
Look up the XFPS. It allows mouse and keyboard to be used with consoles.
Yeh, because I can't pirate games on my 360... I don't at all have a copy of ACII on my console that I didn't buy, or MW2, or any of the other games that aren't sitting in a pile in my lounge room.
Nice rationale.
In fact, the Wii doesn't even require you to open it to pirate games for it. You can even load them on to an external USB HDD and load them from there...
If you think you can count on the DRM then you can allow people to download content at kiosks in game stores, too. That way, people with poor or no internet connection can give you their money as well. You split the profits with the store to encourage them to not blow the thing up as the obvious threat to their future. Of course, most retail is going away. It'll just be small speciality stores and big box stores, and the internet.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Odd, when I had to get mine repaired one of the instructions was to remove the hard drive. So unless you had a dead drive, perhaps the issue was not following instructions?
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.