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Spamming a Judge Is Contempt of Court
eldavojohn writes "TV pitchman Kevin Trudeau was sentenced to 30 days in jail because he urged his fans and followers to spam a judge. Apparently the judge (who was deluged with emails) decided that this was an act of contempt of court on the court's 'virtual presence' since nothing happened while the court was in session in regards to Trudeau's courtroom behavior. US Marshals are now trudging through those emails to decide if any are threatening."
Apparently everyone is afraid that spamming Slashdot would be a Contempt of CowboyNeal.
First, this is a great thing, spammers should be punished, and whatever you think of our Legal system, it it was it is. Second, Spamming in general should be a crime!
There Can Be Only One...
Because people I've never met annoy the judge?
Harassment sounds more like it.
Contempt of court is such a mis-justice in that its application is arbitrary. Basically if the judge doesn't like you for any reason they can take away your liberty. I think a lot of judges themselves deserve contempt but I don't see them being locked up.
Shh.
In a free society, shouldn't people be allowed to buy snake oil if they choose to. More importantly, why is a state that is trying to protect the population from the likes of 'Kevin Trudeau' and at the same be peddling lottery tickets to those who are bad at math?
Just Curious
Lots of times "spam" represents an attack, DDS, harassment, unsolicited advertising etc. These are a problem, and people rightly want this controlled.
But if I ask all my friends to send emails, and thousands of individuals all reply, I would think that is more like speech, a la "free speech". Nothing in TFA says the emails were threatening or trying to harm the judge.
write A Letter on behalf of First_Name Last_Name and mail it via the U.S. Postal Service to the judge.
Yours In Bishkek,
Kilgore Trout .
Unfortunately, Kevin Trudeau has another title which no one mentions when he goes on the air: Convicted felon. In fact he was barred by the FTC in 2004 of promoting products on TV ever again. That's why he's now an "author" because he can't sell products. His books however had raised warnings from multiple consumer protection agencies. Most noting that his book Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know About contains no actual cures.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I remember that guy, from TV-Shop, many years ago. When I was young and impressionable (read: stupid).
I bought a set of 8 tapes, called Mega-Memory. Kevin gave a few smart "initial pointers" on how you could memorise things really quickly by using the "peg system", associating an item or a "doing" with something (an item) etc, or a situation. And he used catchy sentences like this:
"Everyone remembers faces, right, but names? Oh - I remember his name, but what's his face like? (Everyone in the audience laughs and agrees)" And goes on by telling us we can remember anything by using his mega-mind system. Which is utterly bullshit, because once you get to advanced formulas, actual stories etc. you won't remember squat anyway, not anything extra with his system. With his system, you may improve to remember 20 SIMPLE items instead of ...say 10...
He's well known for scams like this, take some 10% truth things (which most people agree too, and understand immediately) to sell something thats a complete lie - based on that 10% of truth (which you got for free, in the infomercial in the first place).
It's like people who win because they tell HALF-truths, because everyone understands the first part, the second part must also be true? Right? Wrong! Thats how people like him scams millions across the world.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
The difference is that this was not a publicly available email adress. Trudeau gave out the judges email to his followers and encouraged them to contact the judge. The judge does have a publicly listed phone number available for those that wish to contact him.
When they're a natural result of people's desire to make their opinions known, versus an act designed and intended to get people to overwhelm one person with a deluge of communications.
Apparently the judge decided this was the latter, not the former.
Sometimes they do that.
But if I ask all my friends to send emails, and thousands of individuals all reply, I would think that is more like speech, a la "free speech". Nothing in TFA says the emails were threatening or trying to harm the judge
Free speech guarantees you the opportunity to say what you wish, but it does not let you force the audience to listen. The content of what you say is protected, but the manner in which you say it is not. If you are choosing your delivery method in a manner specifically to harass others, you are not eligible for free speech protections.
Your rights only go so far as they do not impinge on the rights of others...you cannot force people to listen to you.
What if you were on trial and asked your friends to fill the presiding judge's mailbox or worse, congregate and protest in front of his house. The message isn't being restricted, just this very targeted delivery.
It's not free speech in a public forum, and the public doesn't have a right to address the court, at least not without going through certain channels. They need to be able to file an amicus brief under the rules of the jurisdiction if they want to speak to the judge on the issue the court is deciding. But the judge doesn't have to listen; courts aren't democratic. If you want to overturn a court democratically, you're supposed to do it through the legislature.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
This sounds more like a care of civil disobedience and protest. As long as he didn't encourage people to threaten the judge, I don't see anything wrong here. If your filters can't handle this, sounds like a personal problem. How many times have you heard something like, "Let your voice be heard. Contact your local Representative, Senator, etc.?"
One never knows when one might need a rotten tomato... - King's Quest IV: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
Since when is an annoyingly-high volume email campaign illegal?
If one were going to actually inflict harm upon another, why would they give them a heads up with a threat? You'd think they'd just do it. Ever notice in horror films that the guy who says "I'm gonna kill you" is always the one being killed. You'd almost think that a threat is an indication someone's not going to commit a crime. "Excuse me sir, I'm going to rob your convenient store at 11pm"...wtf?!?
The difference is that this was not a publicly available email adress.
So? Was he ordered not to disclose the address? I've been a party to lawsuits before and received private e-mail addresses of the Judge and attorneys. I've never been asked nor ordered not to disclose those addresses.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Just to play devil's advocate to some of the comments thus far... I wonder how people would differentiate this from political lobbying. This guy had a court case pending before the judge, and asked his followers to write the judge in hopes that it will sway the judge's impartial decision-making. Large special interest organizations ask their followers to write Congressmen, in hopes that it will sway the legislator's impartial decision-making.
What's the difference between lobbying a government's judicial branch, as opposed to lobbying the legislative branch? I'm not necessarily saying that there ISN'T an enormous difference between these two things... I'm just curious what kind of answers I'd get by posing the question.
I'm sorry, schmucks like Kevin Trudeau need to be in jail for the same reason you put violent offenders in jail.
To protect the public from their predatory behavior.
And make no mistake, that's all Kevin Trudeau is about. You cut off one avenue of exploitation for him, he simply rolls over into another. And another. And another.
Until they physically stop this jackass, he'll continue preying on gullible people via any and every means possible.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Isn't that a tautology itself?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I guess it comes down to the definition of "contempt of court" and what that entails. If you ask me - it's simply ridiculous. But, i guess fences exist for a reason. Keeping the cows out = order in the universe.
L'esperienza de questa dolce vita (The experience of this sweet life) - Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
Yeah, I bought one of his books for Health Cures.. There was not one cure in it.. HE IS BOGUS!
How does a weasel like Kevin Trudeau gets fans by continually scamming people?
Trudo is a blowhard fraud AND a spammer. That's probably why the judge got pissed. See:
http://www.skepdic.com/trudeau.html
"The New York state Consumer Protection Board warns those who follow Kevin Trudeau's advice to call a toll-free number for information that Trudeau is selling their name and contact information to telemarketers and junk mailers."
and...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau#2010:_Arrest_and_imprisonment_for_criminal_contempt_of_court
http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0323064.shtm
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/01/trudeau.shtm
Sounds like he deserves whatever he gets...
All the folks on here saying "wha? But he just asked people to e-mail support, that's not spam!" are entirely missing the point.
You are not allowed to approach the Judge, or ask anyone else to approach the Judge, outside of court and certain other specially-sanctioned venues. It's called ex parte , and is only appropriate in very specific circumstances, because - duh - that's likely to be unfair. That's the basis for the contempt charge.
Now, if it had been a friend or two that e-mailed the judge, he might have just warned them off with a "that's not appropriate." But when enough people e-mail to fill his Inbox, it's quite clearly an attempt to influence the judge, and that's not OK .
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
Is there any offense like "contempt of the people" for judges, politicians, business-greedies?
Your rights only go so far as they do not impinge on the rights of others...you cannot force people to listen to you.
Then perhaps the judge needs to learn how to setup mail filters instead of whining about people he doesn't want emailing him.
There must be limits on the powers of the judiciary. No judge should have the power to jail anyone for contempt except those who are appearing before the court. If you are in the audience, all the judge should be able to do is throw you out of the court room or file a complaint of disturbing the peace with the local police. To suggest that you can be jailed for sending email is ludicrous.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
My understanding of contempt of court, which wikipedia confirms is that the following have to be shown
* Existence of a lawful order
* The contemnor's knowledge of the order
* The contemnor's ability to comply
* The contemnor's failure to comply
The lawful order can be a specific order by the judge, or an existing rule or law concerning the operation of the court. There is such a rule in place - except in limited circumstances, discussing the case with the judge outside of the official proceedings of the court is not allowed. This is to prevent biasing the judge, putting forth arguments to which the other side cannot respond, and limiting opportunities for bribery or blackmail. The judge can be punished if he allows any of this sort of communication to occur, and repeated attempts to contact the judge outside of court have resulted in contempt of court rulings in the past. Furthermore, inciting someone to break the rules of the court can absolutely land you contempt charges yourself.
The second criteria is where I think there may be problems. Lawyers are assumed to know the rules of court and can be issued contempt charges without warning. However, it is not generally assumed that the defendant does, and it is customary to warn them and only charge them with contempt if they continue. If the judge can't prove that that Trudeau was aware that this action was breaking a rule of the court, then it may likely be overturned in appeal (which is being heard right now).
Anyone can file an amicus curiae brief if they have something to say regarding a trial. That is the proper channel of communications. If I had a bunch of people protest outside a judge's house, or send tons of snail mail, that would also likely be judged as contempt. That's not how we conduct law in America. And before you scream 'free speech,' remember, the content of your speech is protected, not the delivery method. Free speech does not give you the right to force your speech on others. This is what Kevin the previously convicted felon did when he told his followers to fill the judge's personal email with unsolicited comments on a pending case. He tried to force his views on the judge, not the court, and therefore the judge is perfectly within the law to rule contempt.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Or as my grandfather always put it: "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."
I agree, how is a whole bunch of real people sending emails in any way related to spam.
Wikipedia defines spam as "the abuse of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately."
As far as I can tell, these messages were not "bulk," or "indiscriminate."
Furthermore, the people sending them were hardly "abusing" the system.
RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
TV pitchman Kevin Trudeau was sentenced to 30 days in jail...
This alone made me smile
The guy is a serious asshat.
Promotes scientology too.
Technoli
To me, if it was public information then the judge would be wrong. The supporters would have every right to ceaslessly use the judge's publicly listed contact information. It crosses the line when the dude starts giving out private information and uses it to hareass the judge. It's in a way a lesser degree of giving out the judge's street adress and encouraging people to go to the judge's house.
This judge should be thrown from the bench. This is not Contempt of court. This is harrassment at best. Regardless whether Trudeau is an Asshat or not, he has the right to free speech, and unsolicited mail is harrassment.
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
Contempt of court is whatever the judge decides it is. It is his courtroom and he is the one the contempt is aimed at.
Lesson for today: If you go to court the only two phrases you should say to the judge are "yes, your honor" and "no, your honor." He has your fate in his hands.
So each time we see "Contact your congressmen" here on slashdot means some sort of harassment?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Please allow me to elaborate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau
Just because you're a convicted criminal making money by selling snake-oil, doesn't mean everything you do is wrong. That said, he was basically trying to win a court case via popularity contest instead of through the legal process. There was no reason to ask supporters to do this. There was no expected benefit. If he wanted their testimony he should have introduced them as witnesses, which would open them up to be cross-examined.
Instead, he gave one-sided testimony directly to the judge, bypassing discovery rules, with no possibility for the prosecution to cross-examine. I'm surprised this isn't a mistrial.
And regardless of what happened in this case, he should serve his time in a furnace.
Your rights only go so far as they do not impinge on the rights of others...you cannot force people to listen to you.
Then perhaps the judge needs to learn how to setup mail filters instead of whining about people he doesn't want emailing him.
no.. he didn't whine. he convicted the idiot with contempt of court as he deserved.
No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
The most bizarre part of it is that he had supporters.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
IANAL either, but hopefully one out there can answer this because I know it has had to have come up in the past?
If a person is on trial and asks friends and supporters to engage in a letter-writing campaign on their behalf, is that contempt of court?
Would it make a difference if the address provided was the Judge's home address rather than the court address?
If someone asked friends and supporters to send email on their behalf (character references) to the Judge's court email address, I do not see how this could possibly be classified as either SPAM or as contempt of court. Has a similar physical letter campaign ever been classified as contempt?
If you stand on the street in front of my house with a megaphone, is it up to me to get thicker walls for my house?
And no one is forcing the judge to read his emails. No one is stopping the judge from setting up a filter.
Look at it this way: If they had all sent in letters through the post office, would this have been considered illegal?
It's been a long standing fact that crime does not require a physical presence. If harassing someone over the phone with incessant calls can be a criminal offense, shouldn't the same hold true for email, another form of communication?
Shut up, they could have just dragged him off his bench and beaten him.
Contempt this.
Its like "101 Things 'They' Don't want you to know about Court!" He could write another book about the judge and jail and offer free legal advice. Alll you have to do is pick up the phone and call now! Its a $70 value, yours for just 24.95. But wait, there's much much more. You will also get this tip sheet "50 jail cell tips to keep your butt away from Bubba" Its invaluable, but the retail value lists for over $200, we include it free. And there's still more! We also include this 24 page "Shackles and lockpicking guide" and "50 ways to piss off the judge and theres nothing he can do about it" guide. Its a great value: "101 Things 'They' Don't want you to know about Court", "50 Jail Cell tips to keep your butt away from Bubba", "Shackles and Lockpicking guide" and "50 ways to piss off the judge and there's nothing he can do about it", an over $500 value, yours for only $24.95, operators are standing by, call now.
The Constitution specifically protects the right to petition your government. It does not specify any restrictions. It doesn't exempt the judiciary. Don't want to be petitioned? Easily taken care of, resign from government.
Doing this sort of thing might be rude, but it's not illegal. Being part of the government means that you don't have the same standing as a member of the general public with respect to shielding yourself from contact.
And a contempt citation/jail is certainly an abuse of power by this judge. But it is an indication of how members of the judiciary view themselves, as above reproach. They are unelected, they serve for life. This contempt citation should be overturned because the judge has no authority to cite anyone for behavior not done in his courtroom, or in violation of one of his orders.
Frankly, I think the whole concept of contempt of court, as being able to be absolutely applied by one person with absolute authority is something that should be outlawed. No one should be able to be sentenced to jail without due process of being charged, tried by jury, and convicted.
Corporatism != Free Market
It's like people who win because they tell HALF-truths, because everyone understands the first part, the second part must also be true? Right? Wrong! Thats how people like him scams millions across the world.
This is how a lot of con-men operate in this world. Take a little money and make a good return for you, then when they ask for more, suddenly they're gone. It's also one of the best methods used for interrogation. You get a person to trust you a little and suddenly they say things they wouldn't normally in that situation. All it takes is a little trust to turn someone into a complete fool.
It could be said that a fool and his money are soon parted, but really it can happen to anyone given the right circumstances.
His biggest mistake was, when confronted by the judge about the emails, when he simply replied: "Bazinga!"
Nerd Rock In Progress
There actually is a system known as the peg-link system, which is mostly a mnemonic technique. I'm not sure if your actually aware of this or think it's total bs based on your double quotes around peg. There is some merit to the system itself, particularly associating phonetic sounds with an item and generating a bizarre image to reinforce memory. Ultimately though, the link-peg system is really only good for establishing a stronger memory on a list of items, with little regard to ones comprehension of what that list might mean. The amount of information involved in this method, would probably amount to a wikipedia article and not much more. As for its effectiveness, I was able to use it to memorize 50-100 items, but usually setting up the mnemonic visualizations is more trouble than its worth.
He's lucky it was only Contempt of Court and just 30 days. This could have been considered threatening a judge, attempting to extort a judge, bullying a judge, attacking the court etc. Criminal charges could certainly have been levied against the idiot. You do not orchestrate an "attack" on a judge, especially one that is hearing your own case. Severe punishments are attached to such things simply to keep the impartiality intact (don't bother whining about that to me). The law upholds the integrity of the court and violating that integrity carries severe punishments.
No, this guy got off easy.
I am a Constitutionalist, and those claiming it was a violation of the Constitution have not read it. Grievances, petitions, etc. are allowed to be given to the GOVERNING body, not the judicial. The judicial branch is tasked with deciding based on the given laws. It is not to be swayed nor influenced by public opinion. The decisions are to be made based on the law and the evidence, period. The US is a Republic based on law. It is not (contrary to common belief) a Democracy based on the whims of the mob. Judges decide if you violated the law. They do not make law. Public petitions to sway decision have no legal place in the courts. Public petitions are for the Legislative branch.
This isolation of the judicial was designed to shield it from politics and the whims of special interests and the public. If the public didn't like a ruling or law, then it was their responsibility to petition the legislature to change the law. That is what the legislature is for. Judges are not there to change the law. Judges can only rule for the plaintiff or the defendant with only one possible third option, declare a law unconstitutional. That's it. The Constitution laid it out that way to preserve justice and keep it safe from the mob.
This idiot was attempting to usurp justice and bully the judge into deciding not based upon law and evidence but by public opinion and intimidation. If he feels the judge's decision was wrong, the law gives him the right to appeal that decision.
If they had all sent in letters through the post office, would this have been considered illegal?
Uh, yeah! It would still be illegal. If you're involved in a case before a judge or jury, you're not allowed to try and influence the judge or jury outside of court. The judge shouldn't set up filters to block e-mails from people involved in his cases, though, as there are legitimate communications that need to be made (scheduling, for example).
I thought this was common sense. How is this controversial?
Except you aren't standing in the street with a megaphone, you're just a stupid mime.
The same technology that enables a bunch of idiots to spam you also allows you to ignore them. Nothing "extra" or "special" is required.
All you have to do is close the drapes and you don't have to see the idiot mime.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
What about this post is insightful? Sending email is does not impinge on this judge's rights. It's a work-related issue, and the email is a work-provided inbox. If anything, the judge has impinged on this man's rights.
Yes but they don't give their home address or personal email address when they ask you to contact a representative. We use proper channels. As mentioned above there are proper channels to contact a judge and comment on a case. Personal email is not it.
For instance, what if Slashdot asked you to call them while at home. Would that be okay? The answer seems evident to me, it's over the line.
Congressmen, as elected representatives, directly represent the voice of the people so receiving such emails is really part of their job, unlike a judge, who represents the law and justice instead. While he does represent the people--anyone in government should, theoretically--he needs a buffer between him and popular opinion, as popular opinion can easily be very impulsive and, sometimes, unjust.
It could be said that a fool and his money are soon parted, but really it can happen to anyone given the right circumstances.
Which is to say, we're all fools.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
He's well known for scams like this, take some 10% truth things (which most people agree too, and understand immediately) to sell something thats a complete lie - based on that 10% of truth (which you got for free, in the infomercial in the first place).[...] people like him scams millions across the world.
So he's just another politician?
Anyone can file an amicus curiae brief
Not true.
And before you scream 'free speech,' remember, the content of your speech is protected, not the delivery method.
Wrong. "You can say what you like, but only to this wall" - still got free speech?
The problem is that the world is changing - everyone now feels entitled to an opinion and by jimminy they're going to tell you it. However, there's no actual process for letting the public in general interact with the courts and so you get a mess like this.
Not helped by the other change which is the erosion of free speech, encouraged by people like you, who will happily castrate it with the "only the right to say what you want, not when you want or where you want" mantra.
FGD 135
The Constitution specifically protects the right to petition your government. It does not specify any restrictions. It doesn't exempt the judiciary. Don't want to be petitioned? Easily taken care of, resign from government.
Doing this sort of thing might be rude, but it's not illegal. Being part of the government means that you don't have the same standing as a member of the general public with respect to shielding yourself from contact.
And a contempt citation/jail is certainly an abuse of power by this judge. But it is an indication of how members of the judiciary view themselves, as above reproach. They are unelected, they serve for life. This contempt citation should be overturned because the judge has no authority to cite anyone for behavior not done in his courtroom, or in violation of one of his orders.
Frankly, I think the whole concept of contempt of court, as being able to be absolutely applied by one person with absolute authority is something that should be outlawed. No one should be able to be sentenced to jail without due process of being charged, tried by jury, and convicted.
You think you know the law, but you are not a lawyer.
Do not fuck with a federal judge; as has already been stated by a lawyer here.
The asshole in jail was under the judge's specific orders and he did not comply. This in a preventative measure to keep him from instigating his followers to continue to mess with the judge. In theory the judge can keep his ass in jail until the case is over. Furthermore in the case of preventative measures, bail is not even required. So on the charge of contempt of court, the asshole can be kept in jail till arraigned, then kept in jail through the actually trial. Which is a much longer process than the 30 days ordered by the judge.
The title of the article would have been more appropriately titled: Fuck with a Federal Judge and go to Jail. Now the asshole will be getting into a little anal stretching of his own.
It does not seem like an act of contempt of court but more like spamming through third person
Anyone I don't like who is being sentenced can be 'helped' into a longer sentence.
Great idea.