Pointing Stick Keyboard Roundup

It's not a pointing stick... by AccUser · 2010-05-12 03:56 · Score: 5, Informative

It's a clit mouse.

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Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.

Re:It's not a pointing stick... by toastar · 2010-05-12 03:59 · Score: 4, Funny

It's a clit mouse.
It depends on who your talking to:
http://xkcd.com/243/
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by FooAtWFU · 2010-05-12 04:00 · Score: 2, Informative

On an IBM^H^H^H^H Lenovo laptop, it's a TrackPoint. Much more convenient than the lame touchpads most computers have (with the possible exception of Apple) and can give you much finer control. And you don't need to move your hands from the typing position at all, so it's even more convenient than an external mouse for quick tasks.
The one downside is that it will start to chafe your fingertip if you use it for hours and hours and hours on end.

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by sznupi · 2010-05-12 04:05 · Score: 1

The one downside is that it will start to chafe your fingertip if you use it for hours and hours and hours on end.
That's only for those of weak mind, who give up early. Similar thing to the one with guitars...

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One that hath name thou can not otter
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by cmiller173 · 2010-05-12 04:08 · Score: 1

Somewhere I have an old IBM mouse with a TrackPoint stick instead of a wheel. Was nice for scrolling about in huge spreadsheets or poorly designed web sites. Even for vertical only scrolling it was better because applying more pressure made it scroll faster.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by Kazymyr · 2010-05-12 04:09 · Score: 1

It can be used to defend yourself if someone attacks you with fruit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w

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I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by Nadaka · 2010-05-12 04:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

It isn't about looks. It is about operation. You use the trackpoint more like a clit.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 04:35 · Score: 4, Funny

IBMer's referred to it as the Centrally Located Input Thingy
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by ReverendLoki · 2010-05-12 04:37 · Score: 1

It's a clit mouse.
Can't be. Too easy for most people to find.

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 04:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

I've never understood why so many people have difficulty finding the clit... it's not exactly rocket science; it's pretty well front and center!
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by Squeeonline · 2010-05-12 04:44 · Score: 4, Funny

Personally, I've always called it a g-spot,

as it is situated next to the g key in case some of the virgins on here didn't get that...

*ducks*
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by artemis67 · 2010-05-12 04:55 · Score: 1

FTA:

Don't let the "regular" laptop keyboard look fool you, it's even better than the keyboard on my Toshiba, as well as my girlfriend's modern Lenovo laptop. The keys have a buttery softness to them, a firm response, and they're quiet.

Oh baby... wait, are we still talking about the keyboards here?
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by nazsco · 2010-05-12 04:56 · Score: 2, Funny

btw having it on the g/h keys is the dumbest thing.
if you had it on the j or f key, then touch typists would already have the clit on their finger. no need to move it to reach and then point. just point.
but then you would have a right hand and left hand keyboard.
which is perfectly fine.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by d3ac0n · 2010-05-12 05:00 · Score: 1

It's a nubbin. As in: "Who wants to touch my nubbin?" /donut

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by Hal_Porter · 2010-05-12 05:04 · Score: 1

The G spot is more like the slightly textured touch pad you get one some machines - especially if you lubricate it with some WD40 you've warmed up a bit.
If my ex boss is reading this - remember that exploding WD40 can in the kitchen. Guess what....

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by RobertM1968 · 2010-05-12 05:24 · Score: 3, Informative

On an IBM^H^H^H^H Lenovo laptop, it's a TrackPoint. Much more convenient than the lame touchpads most computers have (with the possible exception of Apple) and can give you much finer control. And you don't need to move your hands from the typing position at all, so it's even more convenient than an external mouse for quick tasks.
The one downside is that it will start to chafe your fingertip if you use it for hours and hours and hours on end.
Nah, not really. IBM/Lenovo usually shipped them with at least two different types of trackpoint caps... the original cats tongue and a domed, wider, more rubbery one with little raised grippy dots on it. And there are about 3 more aftermarket styles to choose from as well (commonly found on eBay).
I prefer the cats tongue ones myself, but they wear down a lot quicker than the others. But new out of the box, they seem the most responsive. Once old, the "grippy-dot" ones become the best - and the cats tongue ones start to slide under your fingertip, which may be the cause of the "chafing" you are noting. I thoroughly hate the concave aftermarket ones and find them near unusable. Some of the convex aftermarket ones (that are different than the two original options) are ok - but not as good as the two original designs. At least in my opinion.
I'm a proud owner of one of the IBM ThinkPad TrackPoint keyboards (which btw, also came with a neat carrying case (leather or pleather or something), and multiple IBM M13 Trackpoint keyboards in black and beige (which are IBM Model M keybeasts... err, keyboards... with trackpoints).
For those looking, the IBM Thinkpad TrackPoint keyboard reviewed in the article comes in two "styles" I remember. Mine is a Model SK-8845 (the BETTER model). The difference between the two are one (mine) is not Thinkpad branded (simply IBM branded), the other is Thinkpad branded. The SK-8845 model comes with a USB hub and two USB ports, uses only one USB connection to your computer, and has dual height adjust legs (2 legs on each side - a short set, and a taller set), and a cut-out compartment to tuck the cable into when travelling with it (no tie-wraps or rubber bands needed). There's also a slight difference in key layout. The insert/home/del/end/pgup/pgdn key row and the escape key on the model I have is actually normal.
AND the other major difference (which I hate) about the model I have, is that it also comes with a touchpad, and two additional (Right/Left) mouse buttons below the touchpad. With the IBM/Lenovo drivers, one can select "use both" or "use Trackpoint" or "use touchpad" - without, both are enabled. Followed by one other big difference... there is no mic control/microphone in the model I have.
Regardless, if you are looking for one, I'd recommend the model I have.

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StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by RobertM1968 · 2010-05-12 05:33 · Score: 1

FTA:

Don't let the "regular" laptop keyboard look fool you, it's even better than the keyboard on my Toshiba, as well as my girlfriend's modern Lenovo laptop. The keys have a buttery softness to them, a firm response, and they're quiet.
Oh baby... wait, are we still talking about the keyboards here?
Interestingly, it is mostly (or entirely) a laptop keyboard. The IBM Thinkpad keyboards were simply a lot better than the Toshiba (or other) keyboards. Some notable exceptions in the non-Mac world were various of the older Dell keyboards - but I dont count those, since they were manufactured by IBM/Lenovo (or their manufacturing companies) for Dell (including, on many, the Trackpoint).
The model I have is definitely a laptop keyboard (Model SK-8845). The difference is, the IBM laptop keyboards had multiple screw-down points along the back and side edges. It was not uncommon to find an IBM laptop keyboard (like the ones in the Thinkpad 600 series) that used ELEVEN or MORE screws on top and bottom edges, and across the middle (instead of the customary 2 or 4 on the top edge) to hold the keyboard rigid to the laptop (or in this case to the keyboard casing), and was made of thicker metal, with curved-upward edges to help prevent flex.
The Thinkpad keyboards were never exactly "regular" laptop keyboards though - like the reviewer said. :-)

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StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by flanaganid · 2010-05-12 06:01 · Score: 4, Funny

You use the trackpoint more like a clit.
But how am I supposed to see the screen if my tongue is anchored to the keyboard?
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by 0100010001010011 · 2010-05-12 06:14 · Score: 1

Except it's not. My problem with the trackpoint (vs either a clit OR a regular track pad) is that you need rather fine motor control.
I play quite a few sports and have decent hand eye coordination but the track point only has an operating range of less than 1/8" (give or take). I always seem to overshoot my position. The trackpad (or even a mouse) I have a bit finer control. Apple's trackpad (vs my Dell's) seems to be the optimal size for fine control and large movements.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by 0100010001010011 · 2010-05-12 06:15 · Score: 1

G-spot on the clit? Well that's your problem.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by rsborg · 2010-05-12 06:19 · Score: 1

Much more convenient than the lame touchpads most computers have (with the possible exception of Apple)
The only thing that could take me away from a trackpoint was the elegant and powerful trackpad of my 2006 Macbook (the unibody models have even nicer trackpads).
I did always hate the "drift" issue that I had with trackpads (even in thinkpads from 2 years ago).

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by BlackSnake112 · 2010-05-12 06:23 · Score: 1

It's a clit mouse.
Can't be. Too easy for most people to find.
The clit is easy to find. Sometimes you do need to coax it out of it's hiding place.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by gauauu · 2010-05-12 06:28 · Score: 1

I did always hate the "drift" issue that I had with trackpads (even in thinkpads from 2 years ago).
Most of the time, if you just leave it alone when the drift starts, it will auto-recenter and correct itself. Generally it's only when you keep messing with it that the drift continues. (I've gone through a number of thinkpads for years now, and never had one where the drift wouldn't auto-correct itself if you left it alone for a minute or so).
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by Captain+Splendid · 2010-05-12 06:29 · Score: 1, Funny

I am the master of the clit! Remember this fucking face. Whenever you see clit, you'll see this fucking face. I make that shit work. It does whatever the fuck I tell it to. No one rules the clit like me. Not this little fuck, none of you little fucks out there. I AM THE CLIT COMMANDER! Remember that, commander of all clits! When it comes down to business, this is what I do. I pinch it like this. OOH you little fuck. Then I rub my nose with it.

Quick aside: Why does FF's spellchecker not like the word clit? That's some sexist shit right there.

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Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by TeknoHog · 2010-05-12 06:45 · Score: 1

From now on, I think I'll call it gamma, after its location in the middle of GHB.

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Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by rsborg · 2010-05-12 06:46 · Score: 1

Most of the time, if you just leave it alone when the drift starts, it will auto-recenter and correct itself.
Yes, and more recent trackpoints do not have as many drift issues... but why should I even bother when the Macbook trackpad is more precise in scrolling and pointing, and has no such issues at all? I loved my trackpoint 10, even 5 years ago. It's 2010. If they haven't fixed the drift issue, I'm not going back (unless I'm forced to, like at work).

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by mcmonkey · 2010-05-12 07:22 · Score: 2, Funny

I don't have mod points today, but thank you for making it worth my while to bring my laptop (with clit) to this meeting.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by toastar · 2010-05-12 07:31 · Score: 1

Dear Grammer Nazi,
Please Below Me!
I mean really It's not like i can go back and edit my post when i mistype.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by donatzsky · 2010-05-12 08:07 · Score: 1

I don't know when they started doing it, but all ThinkPads come with three different caps: "cat's tongue", convex and concave. With the convex factory fitted.
I used to prefer the original, but must say I have really come to appreciate the concave. First of all it doesn't chafe the finger and it gives a mechanical advantage, meaning that less pressure is required - which is great since Windows seems to have a hard time keeping different settings for different input devices and so tends to reset pointer speed etc. (it might be that it's actually the lousy Logitech drivers that are at fault here, though).

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by tresho · 2010-05-12 08:15 · Score: 1

the optimal size for fine control and large movements I suspect whatever is optimal varies from user to user. My hands are way too large for netbook keyboards. I have used trackpoints and trackpads, some are better than others.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by MichaelSmith · 2010-05-12 10:53 · Score: 1

Mmmmmm forbidden nipples...

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by mobby_6kl · 2010-05-12 11:00 · Score: 1

Because the TrackPoint is much more convenient since it's placed where your fingers already are, as opposed to the ridiculously huge apple trackpad which requires much more hand/finger movement.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by mobby_6kl · 2010-05-12 11:04 · Score: 2, Funny

Your tongue isn't long enough to allow you to see the screen while touching the trackpoint? No wonder you're having all these kinds of issues.
Re:It's not a pointing stick... by rsborg · 2010-05-12 11:17 · Score: 1

Because the TrackPoint is much more convenient since it's placed where your fingers already are, as opposed to the ridiculously huge apple trackpad which requires much more hand/finger movement.
This is an important point; however, I find that when I'm typing (coding or documenting) I am rarely using the mouse. However, when I'm mousing around, I'm rarely typing (ie, browsing/researching/designing).
I do think that if you're mousing and typing a lot like if you have several terminal windows open, etc, then the trackpoint's benefits outweigh the disadvantage (ie, drift). However, I find that when I'm coding, I have mouse/keyboard/monitors, and when I have the laptop on the couch, for example, I tend to be more seperate with my pointer/keyboard usage.

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by StikyPad · 2010-05-12 12:29 · Score: 1

Why does FF's spellchecker not like the word clit?
Because the word is actually clitoris?
That's some sexist shit right there.
Indeed.

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by StikyPad · 2010-05-12 12:35 · Score: 1

Wait, are you saying I shouldn't be putting the trackpoint in my mouth, or that I *should* be putting the trackpoint in my mouth?

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Re:It's not a pointing stick... by Calinous · 2010-05-12 18:33 · Score: 1

I've used the trackpoint on an IBM Thinkpad - and I found it pretty much unusable (versus the trackpads which I've found usable, even if far from the usability of a mouse). The trackpoint has practically zero movement (for me), so it was either too slow or overshooting the intended target.

Re:Pointing Stick? by Rhaban · 2010-05-12 04:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

Depends on who can hear you.

Friends: Keyboard Clit
Coworkers: Keyboard Nipple
Boss: Pointing Stick.

chiropractor by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 04:01 · Score: 5, Insightful

>After a chiropractor urged me to...
>chiropractor

Oh dear....

Re:chiropractor by raddan · 2010-05-12 04:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

The physicist would respond, however, "Necks are not my field." A chiropractor, however, claims be able to cure any ailment using spinal adjustments, which is patently absurd.
Re:chiropractor by natehoy · 2010-05-12 05:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

Depends on the chiropractor.
I wrenched my back pretty badly last summer, and it kept getting worse. I finally went to see a chiropractor who spent some time examining the bone positions, used some electric thing to warm up the muscles, did some twisty crunchy stuff, and I walked out of the office upright and nearly pain-free, and armed with some photocopied sheets of appropriate exercises to strengthen the muscles and stretch things back into shape. I went back for a couple of followups, and he fine-tuned the adjustment, and my back felt perfectly normal within a couple of weeks, and we were done.
If the problem is skeletal, a competent chiropractor is an appropriate person to see. There are cases where misalignment of the spine can cause problems elsewhere (nerve issues, breathing issues, etc).
But, yeah, claiming to cure cancer by doing an adjustment is off in oogy-boogy land, and gives the competent bone manipulation folks a bad name.

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Re:chiropractor by phantomcircuit · 2010-05-12 05:20 · Score: 1

In general chiropractors are full of shit. However this is clearly an instance of something where there is ample research to backup the claim that using a laptop display is going to hurt your back.
In fact workers comp claims are often filed because of poorly setup desks with monitors that are either too high or too low.
Re:chiropractor by aztracker1 · 2010-05-12 05:54 · Score: 1

A chiropractor I used to go to was an MD as well, so he was pretty knowledgeable all around. His father disapproved (being a heart surgeon) though.

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Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
Re:chiropractor by flappinbooger · 2010-05-12 06:09 · Score: 1

my back felt perfectly normal within a couple of weeks, and we were done.
This is the key. Being DONE.

There are very professional looking and sounding chiro's out there who scare you into thinking you have some sort of horrible chronic life threatening time bomb in your spine that will leave you paralyzed or crippled unless you DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW and OH HOW FORTUNATE WE CAUGHT THIS JUST IN TIME and he signs you up for something like a three year long multi-time-per-week thousands of dollars regimen to totally rework your entire spine, and your family too. And the dog. Or you will ALL DIE A HORRIBLE DISFIGURING DEATH.

I worked with a guy that got roped into this, he and his son. I tried to convince him there was no way he had to do this, get a 2nd opinion, but he was convinced because he had x-rays and the Dr. pointed out the "problems."

But, hey, my wife has wrenched her back doing something dumb and she goes in and it's put right, a one shot deal. Chirpractors can help, and they can be quacks. The key is to get one thats just there to help and not one that's looking for his next three boat payments out of you, or one who is into all the crazy new age crap. I want to see joints and muscles on the wall, not crystals and scientology stuff. (I've done comp work for both kinds lol...)

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Flappinbooger isn't my real name
Re:chiropractor by geekoid · 2010-05-12 06:14 · Score: 1

here is the problem:
"Chiropractors" refuse to clean house of non science mumbo jumbo, and in mayy places you don't actually need to understand the body to practice.
Until the do so they should be treated with scorn and contempt.
YOU can find a dostor that spiaclized in that kind of care. SOmeon who went to medical school and needs to stay current.
I can stitch a person up, but if I tried to become a 'suturalogist' , I would be put in jail.
However, if you claim magic spirits cause you ailments, and use procedures that put you at risk it's OK.
Now if I went to medical school why would I create a new field that does the same thing as an existing field unless is was to promote a scam to make me more money?

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Re:chiropractor by Sir_Lewk · 2010-05-12 06:15 · Score: 1

If your chiropractor is trained and operating as a physical therapist, then you should just call him your physical therapist.
If your chiropractor is acting as a physical therapist, but is not trained as such, then you should go find a real physical therapist.
If your chiropractor is acting as a chiropractor.... Oh dear...

--
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Re:chiropractor by geekoid · 2010-05-12 06:17 · Score: 1

Was he current? where was he getting his CMEs? Why would he go into a field where the major idea is 'magic'? Why not become a specialized in an existing field?
Seems pretty suspicious and I wonder about his critical thinking and skills and science knowledge.
It's like find an evolutionary biologist that promotes young earth. You can't be in your right mind and promote both.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:chiropractor by billstewart · 2010-05-12 06:30 · Score: 1

Yeah, some chiropractors are quacks, and some of the theories behind chiropractic are bogus; obviously anybody who tells you they're going to cure the plague by adjusting your back should be avoided like, uhh, whatever...
However, chiropractors are specialists in back and neck pain, and these days they do get a good education in anatomy, muscles, tendons, etc. As a computer abuser, I've dealt with their profession over many years. Some are good, some aren't, one was also an MD (he did the chiro first, then got into "real medicine". I've had a chiropractor tell me that, sorry, he don't do shoulders, see an MD. My current chiropractor has been able to tell me a lot about what's going on inside my rotator cuff and does a lot of the same things that a physical therapist did when I had problems on the other shoulder a few years ago (on the other hand, she's not much help with non-carpal-tunnel hand problems other than advising general exercise, and will tell you that, but she's really good with elbow mechanics.)
One thing I've noticed over the years is that a lot of people in the chiropractic and physical therapy businesses got into it as a result of injuries that exposed them to the practice. A couple of them used crutches (I think it was the chiro who'd wrecked a motorcycle and the PT had wrecked a car, and hip replacement technology has gotten really good for old people but wasn't quite ready for young active people.) Another PT had a black eye when I first met her - she was a rugby player, so she was a frequent patient at her shop, at least on Mondays, as well as a practitioner.

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New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Re:chiropractor by pavon · 2010-05-12 06:40 · Score: 1

It is interesting how stereotypes differ in locations.
Where I grew up, we didn't have any quack chiropractors who thought they could heal cancer with back manipulations. It was just a synonym for back doctor. Physical therapists were who you went to to relearn how to walk after a serious accident. The idea of going to them for back pain or ergonomic advice is just bizarre to me.
Re:chiropractor by natehoy · 2010-05-12 06:51 · Score: 1

Yes, you generally want to find places that mention things like "sports medicine" or have large stacks of photocopied exercise and stretch instructions on the front desk, and avoid places that use words like "holistic", "energy medicine", "chakra", and advertise the use of crystals or magnets.
"Payment Plan Available" basically means they want you to pay rent on your spine forever.

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Re:chiropractor by Locklin · 2010-05-12 07:07 · Score: 1

Look up the history of chiropractors. The term (and accompanying philosophy) has always been quackery.

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"Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
Re:chiropractor by wworf · 2010-05-12 07:08 · Score: 1

fwiw, a licensed occupational therapist would be a better option for workspace setup and body mechanics in this instance.
Re:chiropractor by Locklin · 2010-05-12 07:09 · Score: 1

Sad when a testimonial qualifies as an "insightful" evaluation of a medical treatment.

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"Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
Re:chiropractor by Sir_Lewk · 2010-05-12 07:20 · Score: 1

Sure, I'm not familiar with exactly what sort of trained medical professional you'd want to see for specific injuries, I only know that you'd want to see one ;)

--
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Re:chiropractor by Sir_Lewk · 2010-05-12 07:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

It never fails. Whenever chiropractors are mentioned on slashdot inevitably a dozen people and their cats sign on and make comments about how they know it is all mumbo jumbo but they or a loved one actually benefited from it. They, and the occasional mod, think these are actually insightful comments, which they are not.
Of course, someone that goes to a chiropractor is probably more pre-disposed to not understand the concept of scientific evidence so I guess it's not all that puzzling...

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"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Re:chiropractor by natehoy · 2010-05-12 07:38 · Score: 3, Interesting

Look, I know the chiropractic field is full of a lot of quacks, asshats, and "energy practitioners" who are either incompetent or make claims about their abilities that just ain't so. Finding a good practitioner is almost as hard as finding an honest politician. That doesn't mean that all of them are bad.
In my case, the problem was simple - I was shoveling gravel, moved wrong with a heavy shovel extended, and shifted a bone ever so slightly out of place. I thought I had pulled a muscle, but the pain got worse and worse over time, not better.
Simple problems do not require complex solutions, and my GP isn't prepared to handle this type of injury. I went to someone who did specialize in it, and he figured out the problem and fixed me up (for about $100 total over the course of two weeks - which is less than the referral visit to my GP), gave me a stern lecture about not being stupid, some good advice on exercises to keep my back strong, thanked me for my business, and that was that. No drugs, no crystals, no payment plan, no ongoing maintenance except a recommendation to keep up with the exercise sheets he gave me for free.
He make pain go away, he tell me how to avoid pain in future, I give him money.
When something is wrong with my teeth, I go to my dentist. When something is wrong with my eyes, I go to my optometrist. When something is wrong with my back, I go to a chiropractor. When I can't figure out what's wrong, I go to my GP and she fixes it or (more often) refers me to a specialist.

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"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Re:chiropractor by Rantastic · 2010-05-12 08:10 · Score: 2, Informative

But, yeah, claiming to cure cancer by doing an adjustment is off in oogy-boogy land, and gives the competent bone manipulation folks a bad name.
Actually, you've got that backwards. Claiming to cure whatever ails you by adjustment is exactly what Chiropractic is all about.
That some practitioners also practice physical therapy (with good results) lends undue credence to an otherwise completely bogus profession.

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Ask Slashdot: Where bad ideas meet poor googling skills.
Re:chiropractor by alexo · 2010-05-12 08:14 · Score: 1

here is the problem:
"Chiropractors" refuse to clean house of non science mumbo jumbo
Some, not all.
Re:chiropractor by natehoy · 2010-05-12 08:45 · Score: 1

I stand corrected, then. I was thinking chiropractors were back docs, some of whom had gotten uppity and expanded their field of medicine beyond its ken.
So, technically, I did not go to a "chiropractor", though that's what the shingle on his door says. I went to a "back doctor". :)
Unless, of course, he practices the same bullshittery on people who ask him to, and treats folks with injuries like I had as walk-in cash physical therapy patients unless we show signs of buying into the whole energy medicine thing. ;)

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Re:chiropractor by fustakrakich · 2010-05-12 09:50 · Score: 1

Hello Simon... Miss us?

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Re:chiropractor by fbjon · 2010-05-12 12:36 · Score: 1

Actually, it's no surprise that the GP benefited from it, since back problems is the one thing it's good for.

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True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
Re:chiropractor by sysrammer · 2010-05-12 13:43 · Score: 1

Works for me.
I had gone 6 months or so w/o going to the chiro (the old one retired). I could feel that my back needed it. So I go to a new chiro, and in the course of the initial interview I mentioned something about the chronic knee pain in my right knee (my Dad had the same thing). He mentioned that he could take care of that, and went on with the interview.
Well, while I knew from experience that a good chiro could tune my back, but I mentally scoffed at the idea that he could stop the knee pain, and wondered if this guy was any good.
So we proceed with the adjustment. As he's pushing on the left sacroliliac, he mentions that that should take care of the knee. He does a few other manipulations but finishes before I expect him to, and sends me on my way.
So I leave the office thinking I'm going to have to find another chiro. He didn't "do" anything.
Well, for me it always takes a day or so for the adjustment to take affect. The day after my back was feeling better. To my astonishment, the day after that my knee felt better. The beneficial effects last from 1 to 3 months between adjustments.
I long ago realized that I would have to go to a chiro the rest of my life because the effects aren't permanent, but I accept this as a much better & cheaper solution than some sort of medical procedure. I have had that done in the past, too...similar results, but much more expensive...and that wasn't permanent either (except for the spinal disc contents between L3 & L4 that were permanently dissolved)).
As with many (or all) things related to the body, the attitude of the mind can affect it. I originally visited my first chiro with an open mind...I had few preconceived notions besides curiosity...and had success. With the knee situation, I had discarded his claim and really thought nothing more of it. While I wouldn't say that I had a closed mind, it certainly wasn't open to the idea.
And I don't think it is the placebo effect. I had to find another chiro recently because the old one moved away. The new guy was nice & friendly, but did little to help my back or my knee. I've had three chiro's in my life. One I'd rate as a B, one as an A, and the last one as a D or F.
Your Mileage Will Vary.
sr

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His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Re:chiropractor by rueger · 2010-05-12 14:36 · Score: 3, Informative

In my case, the problem was simple - I was shoveling gravel, moved wrong with a heavy shovel extended, and shifted a bone ever so slightly out of place

I'm sorry, but is that even possible? As far as I know (IANAD or AC)all of our bones are pretty much solidly in place thanks to muscle, ligaments and other stuff. I suspect that if a bone became "out of place" you'd be writhing around in the back of an ambulance, not trekking to mall to find a chiropractor.

Now if you can tell me that a trained medical professional (aka "real" doctor) using diagnostic imaging equipment made that diagnosis I may be convinced. Otherwise I'll assume you had nothing more than a strained muscle.

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Three Squirrels
Re:chiropractor by Locklin · 2010-05-13 03:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

In my case, the problem was simple - I was shoveling gravel, moved wrong with a heavy shovel extended, and shifted a bone ever so slightly out of place
I'm sorry, but is that even possible? As far as I know (IANAD or AC)all of our bones are pretty much solidly in place thanks to muscle, ligaments and other stuff. I suspect that if a bone became "out of place" you'd be writhing around in the back of an ambulance, not trekking to mall to find a chiropractor.
You are correct, there is no evidence that the "miss-alignment of bones" that chiropractors "diagnose" exists. They have been shown to, at most, have similar efficacy to physiotherapists when doing the same procedures, and that's about it.
I love how readers just provided *more* testimonials in response to my comment. Seriously people, this isn't how medicine works. There are people who use the *exact same* arguments to support prayer based healing, leeching chemicals for autistic kids, WD-40 for arthritis and all sorts of Woo. Testimonials are *not* valid support for medical treatments. Put up clinical trials or go home.

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Re:chiropractor by Sir_Lewk · 2010-05-14 06:46 · Score: 1

Wow, it is like you have managed to completely avoid reading my post you responded to entirely.
I'll sum it up for you: Your story doesn't mean shit. It is absolutely worthless.

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"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)

Love Thinkpads.. by mdwntr · 2010-05-12 04:05 · Score: 1

I would be interested in using the Lenovo one for my desktop, that's not too weird/impossible right? (I don't need a numeric keypad, though it wouldn't hurt). Anyone use one in Linux? I figure everything would work as expected, TrackPoint scrolling, etc?

Re:Love Thinkpads.. by damn_registrars · 2010-05-12 04:12 · Score: 2, Informative

Anyone use one in Linux?
I have the full-sized lenovo UltraNav (with the numeric pad and touchpad) hooked up to my Linux workstation at work. Works great; although I haven't bothered to setup the scroll function for the third button - it is worth more to me as a "paste" function in X.

Overall it's great. I bought it to replace the M2 I had with a pointing stick in it - which I replaced only because the person I share my office with was annoyed by the sound of the buckling spring keyboard (and offered to buy me a new, quieter keyboard).

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Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Re:Love Thinkpads.. by mdwntr · 2010-05-12 04:25 · Score: 1

Thanks for the info, I looked into those models a while back, they don't seem to be particularly available at the moment and I was never a fan of it having a trackpad (hence why the one in the article interests me). I suppose the model above would mean you have some certain laptop-like looks about it such as the symbols on the function keys and such... still not such a big deal.
Re:Love Thinkpads.. by Eil · 2010-05-12 04:57 · Score: 1

I have the full-sized lenovo UltraNav (with the numeric pad and touchpad) hooked up to my Linux workstation at work. Works great; although I haven't bothered to setup the scroll function for the third button - it is worth more to me as a "paste" function in X.
I have a Thinkpad T61 with both the pointing stick and touchpad and I find that I switch between both depending on the task.
The trackpoint scrolling functionality in Linux doesn't impede the middle-button's use for pasting.
Re:Love Thinkpads.. by bhtooefr · 2010-05-12 05:10 · Score: 1

The way I've seen to set it up in Linux, as a click, it still functions as a middle-click, but as a drag, it functions as it does in Windows. Best of both worlds.
Re:Love Thinkpads.. by bhtooefr · 2010-05-12 05:13 · Score: 1

They do, sorta.
The Unicomp board reviewed in TFA is a 104-key version of that in a different case: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104wh.html
That exact board isn't made any more, though: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/onthestick.html
Re:Love Thinkpads.. by Sir_Lewk · 2010-05-12 06:21 · Score: 1

The Linux support for IBM/Lenovo gear like this is generally absolutely superb. I don't have one of these per-say, but the trackpoint/trackpad on my thinkpad is actually more configurable (that I can figure out) in Linux than it is in Windows. Works absolutely flawlessly.

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"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Re:Love Thinkpads.. by mirix · 2010-05-12 13:07 · Score: 1

I've got the one in the article, or very similar, and it has no problems on debian. It 'just works'.

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Sent from my PDP-11
Re:Love Thinkpads.. by bemymonkey · 2010-05-12 23:12 · Score: 1

I have the full-sized lenovo UltraNav (with the numeric pad and touchpad) hooked up to my Linux workstation at work. Works great; although I haven't bothered to setup the scroll function for the third button - it is worth more to me as a "paste" function in X.
Interesting - the awesome scroll function is half the reason I use Thinkpads... Is it possible you've only used "Smooth scrolling" mode (where the middle button just acts as a middle mouse button and only works for scrolling in programs like Firefox)? That pissed me off to no end until I discovered that in Standard mode, you can regulate the scrolling speed much more accurately, the mouse pointer doesn't move about as you're scrolling, and scrolling horizontally works perfectly as soon as you add the appropriate rules to your tp4table.dat file...
As for using the middle button to paste - why? I've always wondered this... why not just use CTRL+V?
Re:Love Thinkpads.. by damn_registrars · 2010-05-13 01:35 · Score: 1

As for using the middle button to paste - why? I've always wondered this... why not just use CTRL+V?
In a standard X windows configuration, when text is selected with the mouse, it is generally automatically copied. Then middle button then is the paste function; hence you are saving both the Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V. It can be quite useful for working with larger documents - especially if you are rewriting large bits of code.

Granted, the whole idea probably came about so that people who had to take their hand off the keyboard to use the mouse could work a bit faster. If your mouse is a trackpoint stick in the middle of the keyboard, it isn't as much of an advantage, but can still be useful.

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Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.

Ouch by Itninja · 2010-05-12 04:09 · Score: 1

I have consistently chosen ThinkPad laptops for the very reason that they had these things. But, after a long period of screen navigation, I would get this wicked blister on my fingertip. I wish they had one that, instead of being a textured nub, was more like the XBox360 analog stick (but smaller).

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Re:Ouch by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 04:14 · Score: 2, Informative

You can get one that is concave instead. It's much more comfortable than the "eraser tip" style. Below is a link to a set of different styles you can buy from Lenovo.
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:show-category-with-items?category-id=44A77E4BFC554CEBA4D064394A24A0B8
Re:Ouch by Jeffrey+Baker · 2010-05-12 04:37 · Score: 2, Informative

When you buy a thinkpad new in the box, it comes with a little bag of replacement pointer tips in various styles. I prefer the original dot texture, but I do hate that it collects filth easily.
Re:Ouch by dyingtolive · 2010-05-12 04:49 · Score: 1

"I'VE GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!"

Obligatory other text for loudness filter.

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Re:Ouch by Francis · 2010-05-12 04:54 · Score: 4, Informative

I found a "replacement nib" pack for Lenovo Thinkpads for a dollar. There's actually 3 different shapes that you can get, maybe one's more comfortable for you?
I have no opinion on these sellers, but they have a picture of the 3 different types:
http://www.6store.net/other-accessories/328/
http://www.machinaelectronics.com/store/buypart/Lenovo_Thinkpad_R61_E/91P8421
(PS. What the heck are you doing that you give yourself a blister on your trackpoint? I personally have never had a problem, nor has anyone I know who uses a Thinkpad. They're standard issue at work, so I actually do know quite a few people who use them.)

--

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Re:Ouch by Itninja · 2010-05-12 05:05 · Score: 1

Maybe I have sensitive finger skin, I don't know. All I know is, that after a few days of 8+ hours of work, I get these blisters. It's gotten bad enough in the past where I start using a *gasp* mouse ;)

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I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
Re:Ouch by ZERO1ZERO · 2010-05-12 05:38 · Score: 1

I love the think pad trackpoints as well. I have the concave pointer (like the xbox360 pad) and it's the best imo. The problem I find with the trackpoint is that my shoulder gets really tense after using it for a few hours as I find you do need to have quite fine motor controls to use it precisely. I can feel my whole arm tense up when using my finger to just nudge to pointer carefully.
As for trackpads, never been a fan, I always end up accidentally clicking all over the place and accidentally brushing the pad with my wrists, but DAMN I just got a Macbook Pro and the trackpads on them are phenomenol - multiouch, gestures, so smoooth, whole button click, ability to disable 'taps'
Also, the IBM thinkpad keyboards are in a league of their own when it comes to laptop keyboard quality.
Re:Ouch by Nesman64 · 2010-05-12 07:41 · Score: 1

He forgot to lick it first.

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coffee | nose > keyboard
Re:Ouch by Itninja · 2010-05-12 07:57 · Score: 1

I recently found a laptop (can't remember which one..I was just browsing) that had a significantly textured trackpad. I found the helped a lot. I also cannot type without bumping those things with my wrists.

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I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
Re:Ouch by LiENUS · 2010-05-12 16:52 · Score: 1

I also cannot type without bumping those things with my wrists.
Play piano a few years, it helps.
Re:Ouch by bemymonkey · 2010-05-12 23:13 · Score: 1

Start playing guitar without a pick and your troubles will be over ;)
Either that or use the trackpoint so much that your fingertip toughens up enough :)
Re:Ouch by bemymonkey · 2010-05-12 23:15 · Score: 1

Same here... I find that soaking them in a solution of lukewarm water with dishwashing liquid over night works relatively well for getting the gunk out, though. It's either that or putting on a new one every month (gets pretty annoying when you've got more than one or two Thinkpads)...

Pretty Good Article by DarkKnightRadick · 2010-05-12 04:12 · Score: 2, Informative

This is actually a pretty good article. Good run down on features and problems with each. I like the Unicomp-style keyboards too much though.

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"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)

Re:Pretty Good Article by je+ne+sais+quoi · 2010-05-12 04:40 · Score: 1

Yeah, I myself have become addicted to this thing. I didn't think I'd like it, but Apple seems to have managed to shorten the keystroke length substantially relative to other keyboards, making it effortless to type on, but still gives you a good strong tactile feedback when the key is fully pressed (i.e. the key comes to a full, abrupt stop when it's at the length of its travel). Getting the function/media keys working properly in linux requires some editing of keyboard map though -- I just run a script at startup that assigns values to the media keys that X11 doesn't know about. I never thought I would like it when I got one with a new computer, but then typing anything else became a chore after a few weeks on it.

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Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
Re:Pretty Good Article by bendodge · 2010-05-12 08:30 · Score: 1

I like the Unicomp-style keyboards too much though.
I personally love my '87 M13: the noise and feel of a classic, indestructible IBM Model M with a ThinkPad-style mouse-thingy. The only problem is that it's PS2.

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The government can't save you.
Re:Pretty Good Article by DarkKnightRadick · 2010-05-12 09:46 · Score: 1

There's a dongle for that.

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"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Re:Pretty Good Article by owlstead · 2010-05-12 13:32 · Score: 1

I like them too, however:
- I like very flat keyboards as well (less wrist strain)
- they are too regularly shaped, I normally use smiley keyboards or, at work, MS 4000 that is split in two (less wrist strain)
- they are awfully loud, don't use them when you've got a colleague sitting next to you
- they are awfully expensive, for a keyboard any way
- just a bit too much travel (very minor issue)
Re:Pretty Good Article by bendodge · 2010-05-14 02:37 · Score: 1

I've got one, but unfortunately it doesn't handle games very well, which is one of my favorite uses of the keyboard. It seems to have a max repeat time of about 3 seconds, which is extremely annoying in an FPS. But it may just be the particular adapter I bought...

--
The government can't save you.
Re:Pretty Good Article by DarkKnightRadick · 2010-05-14 04:49 · Score: 1

I wouldn't have thought an adapter would have any limits that the keyboard/OS didn't (e.g. a straight pass through). Guess I have much to learn.

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"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)

The lenovo is good, but not perfect by damn_registrars · 2010-05-12 04:19 · Score: 2, Informative

I've been using the full-sized variant of the Lenovo UltraNav keyboard at work for a few years now (not sure if they still sell it). Mine has the numeric pad as well as a two-button touchpad underneath the regular keyboard (with the nipple).

I do have a couple complaints for it though:

The finish wears off - just like my laptop keyboard. You can definitely tell that I tend to hit the space with my right thumb much more often than with my left. For that matter you can tell which non-letter keys I use the most (such as space and enter) based on what remains of the finish on the keys. Fortunately the letters themselves are still adequately visible.
Recently the left trackpoint button seems to have lost its spring. It doesn't have the resistance that it used to have, although if you can accept that it works pretty well. I now often use the touchpad left button instead.
The touchpad itself is too close to the trackpoint buttons; I often click a button and then end up moving my mouse cursor due to a clumsy thumb.
There is no obvious way to disable the touchpad as far as I have seen - in Windows or Linux.

Otherwise, its a great keyboard. A bit expensive but worth the money IMHO.

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Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.

Re:The lenovo is good, but not perfect by Ipeunipig · 2010-05-12 04:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

The touchpad more than likely has its own connection wiring in the internals of the keyboard.
Re:The lenovo is good, but not perfect by wordsnyc · 2010-05-12 05:01 · Score: 1

gpointing-device-settings will supposedly let you disable the touchpad in Gnome, but I have problems making the settings stick
I have a Lenovo Thinkpad and two desktop PCs, on both of which I use the original IBM-branded Ultranav short-form keyboards (PS/2). Supposedly these are of slightly better build quality than the Lenovo Ultranav boards and can easily be found on eBay. But having one without a touchpad would be nice.

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Re:The lenovo is good, but not perfect by bhtooefr · 2010-05-12 05:22 · Score: 1

Most likely the rubber dome under the trackpoint button has worn out. Find an old ThinkPad T4x or R5x that's dead, and steal the dome from its keyboard.
Re:The lenovo is good, but not perfect by decnartne · 2010-05-12 06:21 · Score: 1

The Lenovo keyboard I have (SK-8835) on XP has two entries in the Device Manager under "Mice and other pointing devices", one of which is the touchpad. Disable, and voila no touchpad. It's done wonders for avoiding my own 'clumsy thumb' syndrome...
Hope that helps

Re:what? by Itninja · 2010-05-12 04:37 · Score: 1

Personally I love them too. They are for the exceptionally lazy; for those whom a trackball is way too much physical movement.

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I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.

Re:what? by tecnico.hitos · 2010-05-12 04:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

Insightful, seriously? Some modders here seriously disappoint me.

It's a matter of preference. Disliking them doesn't make you more rational than the article writer.

--
The good, the evil and the vacuum tubes.

Where are the trackballs? by Civil_Disobedient · 2010-05-12 04:48 · Score: 1

While I'm glad to see Lenovo get honors for their (IMHO, awesome) keyboard design, I don't understand why the nub/clit/eraser/whatever is ubiquitous among laptop manufacturers. I find trackballs so much easier to use on laptops--particularly since there's no fuzzy-logic-acceleration involved.

Re:Where are the trackballs? by Hatta · 2010-05-12 05:03 · Score: 1

Trackballs take more space. That's really all there is to it.
I wasn't aware that trackpoints were "ubiquitous among laptop manufacturers". Who makes them besides Lenovo? I thought everyone had moved to those awful track pads. You know, the ones that take several strokes to move the pointer across the screen and click if you tap too hard.

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Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Where are the trackballs? by Eil · 2010-05-12 05:08 · Score: 1

I don't understand why the nub/clit/eraser/whatever is ubiquitous among laptop manufacturers.
I don't know that I would call the trackpoint ubiquitous on laptops... If I recall, IBM has a patent on the design so other manufacturers (excepting Lenovo) have to license the technology. I haven't seen anything but Lenovo laptops using them for quite awhile.

I find trackballs so much easier to use on laptops--particularly since there's no fuzzy-logic-acceleration involved.
Easy answer: trackballs are much more fragile than trackpoints or touchpads. They get filled with gunk, break easily, and the ball comes out and gets lost. Not an issue if you take care of your stuff, but we're talking about the general population here.
Re:Where are the trackballs? by j_sp_r · 2010-05-12 05:11 · Score: 2, Informative

You know you can configure them to move the whole screen in one swipe? Does take a bit of practise but it is almost as good as a screensaver lock ;-)
Re:Where are the trackballs? by sznupi · 2010-05-12 05:12 · Score: 1

"The nub/clit/eraser/whatever is ubiquitous among laptop manufacturers"?! I don't really care how are you posting from another Universe...I do care how to get there though.

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One that hath name thou can not otter
Re:Where are the trackballs? by bill_mcgonigle · 2010-05-12 05:51 · Score: 1

You know, the ones that take several strokes to move the pointer across the screen and click if you tap too hard.
Most OS's have configuration tools to adjust both of these to your preference. 'Mouse acceleration' and 'tap to click' would be terms to look for.

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Re:Where are the trackballs? by egcagrac0 · 2010-05-12 06:44 · Score: 1

Some higher-end Dell laptops have them, too. Look at the Latitude and Precision lines.
Not a Dell employee or stockholder, no pecuniary interest.
Re:Where are the trackballs? by fumblebruschi · 2010-05-12 07:54 · Score: 1

Both my old Dell 620 and my current Dell E6400 use a trackpoint. (I still call it the "eraser mouse", even though the Dell ones are concave.)
Re:Where are the trackballs? by Hatta · 2010-05-12 07:59 · Score: 1

I hadn't considered that tap to click was configurable, I'll have to try that. Mouse acceleration however, is really hard to get right. Accelerate it enough so that one drag of the finger gets you across the screen, and you end up with a pointer so sensitive that you can't click on anything small.

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Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Where are the trackballs? by donatzsky · 2010-05-12 08:14 · Score: 1

I don't know that I would call the trackpoint ubiquitous on laptops... If I recall, IBM has a patent on the design so other manufacturers (excepting Lenovo) have to license the technology. I haven't seen anything but Lenovo laptops using them for quite awhile.
Dell certainly has them on some of their higher-end/business laptops, HP as well I believe. Sony has at least one ultra-portable sporting a trackpoint and Toshiba used to have them, but I don't know if that's still the case.

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Re:Where are the trackballs? by bill_mcgonigle · 2010-05-12 08:28 · Score: 1

Accelerate it enough so that one drag of the finger gets you across the screen, and you end up with a pointer so sensitive that you can't click on anything small.
That's c. 1990 mouse-speed settings. Any good OS should now support an acceleration curve. I always set mine to be very slow for fine movements and very fast for gross movements. So I can do pixel-level editing in GIMP, but still jump across the screen with a swipe or so.

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My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Re:Where are the trackballs? by Civil_Disobedient · 2010-05-12 08:34 · Score: 1

I thought everyone had moved to those awful track pads.
Sorry, I apparently had blocked them from my mind, though the point still stands (the dearth trackballs).
Trackballs take more space.
More than a trackpad?
Re:Where are the trackballs? by bemymonkey · 2010-05-12 23:18 · Score: 1

The biggest advantage (IMO) of a trackpoint is that you don't need to take your hands off the keyboard to use it... where would you put a trackpoint on the keyboard? Putting one on there that's as small as the trackpoint probably wouldn't work very well.
Re:Where are the trackballs? by bemymonkey · 2010-05-12 23:19 · Score: 1

HP has 'em, Dell has 'em... albeit not on their consumer lines, but who on Slashdot buys consumer-type laptops these days...?

Correction by raddan · 2010-05-12 04:54 · Score: 1

it's

if(you're like me && you love it) {
blah
}

not

if(you're like me) {
you love it
}

Parent is insightful, people? Come on.

Re:Correction by geekoid · 2010-05-12 08:54 · Score: 1

Maybe they found it funny and wanted to give me mod points?
I mean, come on it's clearly a joke.

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Re:Pointing Stick? by natehoy · 2010-05-12 04:55 · Score: 2, Informative

A company called Unicomp is still making the Model M with the same gear IBM used to use in Lexington Kentucky back when they made the Model M. A few IBM retirees bought up the gear when IBM stopped making them, and have been making keyboards with it ever since. They are located at http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/index.html

The "classic" model M is now called the "Customizer", http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html

But they're not just making the old ones, they've been busy reworking the design. You can get one with a titmouse if you want. http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104wh.html

They don't only sell buckling spring, so look at the product descriptions carefully before you buy...

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Re:Products you didn't know existed, yet want. by bhtooefr · 2010-05-12 04:56 · Score: 1

Unless, you know, he has.

Half the time, I prefer a TrackPoint over a MOUSE.

I just wish the EnduraPro had lighter switches (they're slightly lighter than the Model M already, but I like my switches light,) and a genuine TrackPoint IV mechanism instead of Unicomp's mechanism.

Re:what? by Hatta · 2010-05-12 04:59 · Score: 1

Sure, it's not the best pointing device out there. Either a mouse or a trackball is going to be necessary for any serious clicking around. But for those times that you just need to move the mouse a bit and go back to typing, the keyboard clit is awesome. That actually describes most of my mousing so I'd love to have one of these. By any measurement it's far, far better than those crappy touchpads everyone is using these days. Those are simply unusable for any purpose.

After getting my clicky Das Keyboard a couple years ago, I thought I was done buying keyboards. But I'm lusting after that Unicomp. I wonder if you can get it with black keys.

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Anyone else have this problem? by raddan · 2010-05-12 05:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

I've been a ThinkPad user for over 10 years (I tried a Sony and a Panasonic-- both were lousy machines), and the best feature in my mind is the pointing stick. Touchpads give me terrible wrist/forearm pain, especially when I'm on an airplane or train, because the seating tends to force me into an uncomfortable position. But in these spaces, I can use the pointing stick without a problem.

Sadly, over time, my pointers start to drift to one side. At first, if I take my finger off of it, it will recenter itself. Over time, though, it eventually loses this ability. Is there some kind of calibration tool I need to run, or is this usual wear and tear? It's happened on every ThinkPad I've ever owned, including my first 365CD and my current X61.

Re:Anyone else have this problem? by inigopete · 2010-05-12 10:16 · Score: 1

Sadly I think it's usual wear and tear. I've had the same problem on a couple of Dell Latitudes - even though it was only a slow drift, it seemed to be something to do with a gradual shift of the components on the circuit board. I found sometimes that picking up the laptop and physically "twisting" it a little ameliorated the problem. Or caused it to get worse. Either way, it had some effect, so by manipulating the main body of the laptop itself I was often able to cure the problem. Until it p*ssed me off too much and I bought another cheap laptop...
Re:Anyone else have this problem? by bemymonkey · 2010-05-12 23:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sounds like you're pressing too hard. Crank up the sensitivity all the way and you shouldn't have that problem, because you won't be applying enough physical force to cause that much wear and tear.
Obviously it'll die sooner or later, but luckily with Thinkpads, you have the option of just popping in a replacement keyboard with a new trackpoint built right in ;)

Not by DrYak · 2010-05-12 05:07 · Score: 1

btw having it on the g/h keys is the dumbest thing.

Not necessarily. It's in the middle between the two hand-zone. So no crossing over it and no perturbation to the usual haptics.

i.e.: not matter which key a touch-typist is hitting, the typist in never going to have a finger moving over the stick/nipple/clit.
So no way to move the pointer by incident, and no way that typist tries to press it instead of a key, because the the finger-tip "counted" move 3 objects to the right and the finger thinks it's above a key when in fact its above the stick/nipple/clit.

--
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]

Re:Pointing Stick? by Nimey · 2010-05-12 05:11 · Score: 2, Funny

I learnt it as "clitmouse".

However, you shouldn't try to move it with your tongue.

--
Hail Eris, full of mischief...

E pluribus sanguinem

Re:Pointing Stick? by Reece400 · 2010-05-12 05:15 · Score: 1

Doesn't look anything like a titmouse to me...

Re:Pointing Stick? by Hurricane78 · 2010-05-12 05:16 · Score: 2, Funny

If I rub the pointing stick on the keyboard nipple, will I get a hard drive?

--
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.

Re:Products you didn't know existed, yet want. by jargon82 · 2010-05-12 05:23 · Score: 1

I have one, I love it. Never use a touchpad, never use an external mouse, and even have an IBM travel keyboard very much like the one reviewed for my desktop.

Re:Products you didn't know existed, yet want. by rickb928 · 2010-05-12 05:32 · Score: 1

Some people might call it a pointing stick, but the stick part is disguised.

Some people might call it "the little button some keyboards have in the middle which can tilt and control the mouse", but tilting a mouse is not common behavior, and besides, this is a mouthful. Cue tasteless jokes here.

If you had called it by its correct name, a TRACKPOINT, I would have grokked it even faster.

I used to call it the "F$&*ing eraser head", but then I got an X41 tablet, and got used to it. Other than the autocalibration, it works just fine, though I wouldn't want to try and play Bad Company with it.

My wife loathes it. Good. I get to keep my tablet.

The correct terminology solves a few problems.

--
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.

Primadonna by Hylandr · 2010-05-12 05:35 · Score: 1

I have always felt people that feel the need to elevate their laptops and use ergonomic keyboards to be prima-donnas.

If you find you're injuring yourself with your keyboard then perhaps we need to re-evaluate our method of typing? How is it we could go so many decades with mechanical type-writers and not 'injure' ourselves? You would think *something* would have come up during WWII at least...

- Dan.

--
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.

Re:Primadonna by OldeTimeGeek · 2010-05-12 06:15 · Score: 1

I have little objective evidence to support this, but I have a suspicion that people could use the old manual typewriters for so long without problem because it took quite a bit more effort to press a key on them than it takes to press a key on a modern keyboard. I've asked people who used to work in typing pools in the past about it and they didn't indicate the same problem with RSI that people who have never used anything but a computer keyboard seem to have. Some of this can be chalked up to the way that worker's comp works now, but the anecdotal evidence I've seen seems to support it.

As for keyboards, I seem to have fewer problems typing for long periods without strain with my old Northgate OmniKey (key switch - a bit harder to press) at home versus the cheapo membrane Dell keyboards that we use at work.

Re:what? by aztracker1 · 2010-05-12 05:52 · Score: 1

I've actually got one at work, it's pretty nice, but the nub is pretty easy to accidentally brush up on, so when I am typing something with g's or h's, a lot of the time I accidentally hit the nub instead of the key. Only really an issue with passwords. I would say that it's a really nice keyboard, I've got a unicomp 104 key keyboard at home as well. Been thinking of getting another customizer 104, and dropping the one with the nub. It's totally worth it though, I would put the typing experience in line with a das keyboard and don't mind the clackety noises. I use Auto-Hot-Key to capture Super/Win + [ ] \ for volume down, volume up and mute toggle. Overall it's a pretty awesome keyboard, and I'm not going back. My last Model M died around 2001, and didn't realize how good I had it, until suffering through 8 years with other kinds of "soft" keyboards. Carpel tunnel has gotten better as well, for a "non-ergo" keyboard, but I think IBM put a lot of effort into the tech earlier on, where as now, it's mainly gimmicky.

--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info

HI by gurps_npc · 2010-05-12 06:11 · Score: 1

Does anyone know of a good WIRELESS version? I am looking for wireless keyboard with some kind of track ball/pad/pointy thing built in. Silly to have two items (wireless keyboard plus a wireless mouse). That is just asking for the mouse to get lost, lose it's power, etc.

--
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com

Re:HI by gurps_npc · 2010-05-18 04:38 · Score: 1

Thank you. I think I will take your advice and buy the logitech wireless touchpad version

--
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com

My wish by bunglebungle · 2010-05-12 06:18 · Score: 1

I love my Microsoft Natural 4000 keyboard except for the truly worthless zoom toggle right in the middle. If they were to replace that with a pointing stick (or even trackball) I would be in heaven. (The back/forward buttons could be left/right click instead.)

Re:what? by geekoid · 2010-05-12 06:23 · Score: 1

While I could list a series of actual physical reason why they aren't better, I won't.

I am posting because, honestly, I was unaware that anyone liked them. All the people I have ever worked with, whether they where programmers, manages, consultant, contractors, writes all have universally hated the damn thing.

SO I was surprised by the number of poster that do like them.

Apparently I was wrong.

BTW, Insightful is the way to getting funny posts some karma.

I just did a quick and completely non-scientific study of asking several people about these, all of them hate them.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re:what? by stoborrobots · 2010-05-12 06:24 · Score: 1

Poking around their website, it looks like they used to have all-black keyboards, but they're not available at present...It's not obvious whether they're ever coming back....

--
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco

Ergonomic keyboard with pointing stick? by gauauu · 2010-05-12 06:34 · Score: 2, Interesting

So, it seems this place is the thread to ask -- I absolutely love the nub mouse/trackpoing/whatever, but I also absolutely love a big huge rounded ergonomic keyboard. Has anyone found an ergonomic shaped keyboard that has a trackpoint-style mouse nub?

Re:Pointing Stick? by egcagrac0 · 2010-05-12 06:38 · Score: 1

I believe the term is "tits on a keyboard".

First Summary Line? by DeadboltX · 2010-05-12 06:38 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Blogger pettijohn went on the search for the best USB external keyboard with a pointing stick."

Is there such a thing as a USB internal keyboard?

and did anyone else envision him poking at various keyboards with a stick?

Re:First Summary Line? by pdabbadabba · 2010-05-12 07:56 · Score: 1

and did anyone else envision him poking at various keyboards with a stick?
Yes. I had no idea what that "pointing stick" keyboard business was about. I thought it was, perhaps, for users with some sort of disability that somehow made poking a keyboard with a stick easier than typing.
Though in retrospect, I suppose I should've known that such a thing would never be called a "pointing stick" keyboard even if it did exist. It's not exactly a politically correct name.

--
caritj.org
Re:First Summary Line? by bpfinn · 2010-05-12 08:48 · Score: 1

USB internal keyboard not working on macbook: what to do?

Apparently there is.
Re:First Summary Line? by inigopete · 2010-05-12 10:17 · Score: 1

Yes, my first thought was "oh, there are at least three different kinds of those sticks you attach to your head to type when you have no hands - that's interesting..."

Thinkpads? Hates them, we does! by billstewart · 2010-05-12 06:49 · Score: 1

Thinkpad keyboards have cost me a couple of years of thumb joint pain, because they've an attractive nuisance encouraging me to turn my thumb in odd ways to use their left-hand alt keys.

And unfortunately I've had to mostly give up playing mountain dulcimer because the hand positioning that my teacher uses uses the left thumb a lot (there are tradeoffs between speed, chord options, and hand vs. arm motion) and there's a couple years worth of stuff to unlearn and relearn if I want to do cool stuff again.

--

Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks

The EndoraPro is a Model M by ThousandStars · 2010-05-12 06:50 · Score: 2, Informative

I believe the Unicomp EnduraPro is the same basic design as the Customizer/Space Saver keyboards, which are reviewed at the link, and those in turn are modern Model Ms.

For those of you seeking the One True Keyboard, take note.

Stylus-pad as a keyboard replacement? by billstewart · 2010-05-12 07:02 · Score: 1

What I want is the opposite kind of pointing stick - something like a Wacom tablet that lets me use one hand to point at letters to use as a keyboard replacement. Back when I had a Palm Pilot, it could do that (or use Graffiti), but anything I've seen for the Wacom so far seems to use it as a mouse instead. Is there anything like that out there?

--

Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks

Re:Why, why, why? by pavon · 2010-05-12 07:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

I don't like trackpads. They always register touches when I am typing and screw things up. Turning off tap-to-click helps somewhat, but they are still a pain. Oh and scrolling using the side of the pad never works for me. As much as I'd like the idea, the OS X multitouch trackpads are worse. They are constantly zooming when I meant to scroll, or scrolling when I meant to move the cursor or vice versa. I absolutely hate those things and they are another reason I will never buy an Apple laptop.

The eraser-caps are much nicer. They never move when you don't want them to. They can be very fast and precise once you get used to using them at high sensitivity. The middle button for scrolling is much nicer than any other implementation I have seen on a laptop.

Mice are much better than both for most things to be sure. But I don't like carrying around a mouse with me and the nubs are the best I have used on a laptop. Even on the desktop, if 99% of what you are doing is text, it is nice to be able to scroll and do quick cursor placements without taking your hands off the keyboard.

Yes we both have the same issues by FranTaylor · 2010-05-12 07:21 · Score: 1

Well, just about every keyboard picks up a shine when it gets used a lot.

I have this keyboard too and I absolutely love it.

The left trackpoint button has lost its spring because the screw underneath it, that holds the button in place, has started to strip out of the plastic.

I have had this happen to two of these keyboards now.

Good luck finding a way to fix this problem.

The real sorrow here is that they have indeed stopped making them.

But that's exactly the claim by Benfea · 2010-05-12 07:27 · Score: 1

Claiming to cure anything by doing an adjustment is exactly what chiropractic "medicine" is. Yes, they are good at helping with certain very specific back problems, but other than that the entire field is woo-woo.

Re:But that's exactly the claim by natehoy · 2010-05-12 07:57 · Score: 1

A qualified chiropractor is really, really good at fixing injury-related back pain. If they stick to that, I'm OK with them in their profession. If they start talking about chi and chakra and energy flows, I'm outta there.
If you prefer to avoid the baggage attached to the term, I went to a "Doctor of Sports Medicine" with training in chiropractic care.
He made no claims to cure anything else that was wrong with me. His equipment appeared to only involve physical therapy gear.
I came to him with an injury, he used his training to figure out what I had done to myself, he fixed it, and he gave me the tools to avoid having to see him again. All for less money than my GP would have even done a referral to a specialist (who would probably have been a physical therapist specializing in back pain, if the word "chiropractor" has so much negative chi for you - grin).

--
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."

Re:what? by bhtooefr · 2010-05-12 07:45 · Score: 1

Their website is far from complete.

Long story short, they couldn't figure out how to make black keycaps with white lettering that lasted as long as they liked, so they discontinued the black option.

However, for an upcharge, you can get black blank keycaps on the board. Hidden option. Best to just call them, they'll do it for you. Or you can put it in the order notes, and they'll call you to verify the upcharge.

Or, if you've already gotten a board from them, or have a Model M that you want blank keycaps for, you can call them and order a set of blank keycaps.

Re:As opposed to laptop keyboards by bhtooefr · 2010-05-12 07:54 · Score: 1

PS/2.

(Some keyboards connect the whole matrix to the keyboard, and decode the matrix on the motherboard, but it's still usually PS/2. Why take up a port on the USB root hub when there's a perfectly good PS/2 controller not being used?)

Re:The EndoraPro is a Model M by bhtooefr · 2010-05-12 07:56 · Score: 1

It is, although there have been some minor tuning changes and some general cheapening of the keyboard.

Myself, I actually prefer typing on my EnduraPro to a "real" Model M, due to the tuning changes. (BTW, at least the EnduraPro and SpaceSaver actually have "Model M" molded into the case plastic.)

Down with the pointy-clicky! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 08:19 · Score: 1, Funny

Reject your pointing sticks, meeses, trackballs, clits, whatever!

Unless you're doing layout or graphics, you don't need a mouse. Just shortcuts. The mouse is a very inefficient interface, IMO.

And before you say web browser, let me say: vimperator.

Re:what? by tresho · 2010-05-12 08:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

I just did a quick and completely non-scientific study of asking several people about these, all of them hate them. Birds of feather...

Re:Pointing Stick? by BikeHelmet · 2010-05-12 08:25 · Score: 1

I call it a joystick nub, or pointer nub.

The guru board by hatten · 2010-05-12 08:45 · Score: 1

http://www.guru-board.com/ An extremely configurable keyboard that's planned to come in Q4 2010. It's got clicky/tactile switches, with/without pointing stick, and possibility to change the hardware layout (and possible to switch between a few) so that eg you can have dvorak without messing up with options on the computer. It's pretty hyped, but if it doesn't come out too expensive I really want one.

Re:what? by Hatta · 2010-05-12 09:39 · Score: 1

Strangely enough, popularity is often a really bad indicator of quality. There's a reason Budweiser is the top beer in the US and American Idol has been the top rated TV show for many years now.

--
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!

Why? by dangitman · 2010-05-12 12:34 · Score: 1

Blogger pettijohn went on the search for the best USB external keyboard with a pointing stick.

That's a very strange way to search for a keyboard. Couldn't he just use Google, or even go to the store and look with his eyes? Perhaps this article is for blind people, but even they can use Google via a screen reader.

--
... and then they built the supercollider.

Re:Pointing Stick? by mirix · 2010-05-12 12:58 · Score: 1

>The USB model cannot currently be shipped outside the USA.

Damn. I wonder what that's about. A model M with nipplemouse would be ultimate.

--
Sent from my PDP-11

I love these keyboards by CAIMLAS · 2010-05-12 17:01 · Score: 1

Ah, this is a topic very dear to my heart!

First off, they're not "stick mouse" keyboards: they're either a keyboard clit or a keyboard nipple; calling it a clitboard suffices, if you prefer. :) Everyone I know who likes these keyboards (there are several) calls the little red thing in the center one or the other, or alternatively (in polite company) a Trackpoint.

I've been using these so-called "stick mouse" keyboards for about 8 years now: ever since I got a Model M work-alike at work with one, I've been sold on them.

The "IBM" variant, now made by Lenovo, has become somewhat disappointing in the last couple years. I've got several of the USB Travelmate UltraNAV keyboards: they're kinda pricey for what they are these days. The price hasn't really dropped at all, while the functionality remains roughly the same. The most recent "redesign" changes the key impact tactility fairly significantly, and the other more recent ones have as well. I've had IBM specimens dating from the mid-late 90s up through 2004 or so: they're all pretty much identical in that regard. Lenovo has done a fairly good job so far breaking a "good thing". :( At least the key spacing is still perfect: that's one thing I can't complain about, even as someone with large hands. "Full size" keyboards tend to result in a bit too much wrist and outer hand strain, and I can type significantly faster on the slightly-smaller keyboards.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is not having to reach over and grab the mouse every time I want to navigate a page or application element. Win!

As it stands it doesn't look like I'll be getting another of the "awesome" IBM keyboards. The last one I have (in an older X30) is pretty much worn out - literally. I don't want to know how many millions of times I've pressed those keys: all but the function keys are smooth, the nibs on the keys are worn smooth, and there is literal significant cavitation in half the keys from fingernail impacts.

--
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers

Re:what? by WuphonsReach · 2010-05-13 03:08 · Score: 1

So I was surprised by the number of poster that do like them.

Try asking someone who's livelihood depends on accurate touch-typing, where your fingers always start properly aligned on the home row.

With a pointer nubby, I can keep my fingers on the home row and quickly bump the mouse to click on a stupid dialog or select some text. Without that, I have to take one hand all the way over to a separate mouse and spend 3x as long taking care of the dialog box.

Would I want to draw figures with it? Hell no. But in 99% of the times when I would normally reach for a mouse, I can quickly accomplish the same task with a light touch on the pointer nubby. (Helps if you set the mouse sensitivity setting to "extremely sensitive" so that you can use a very small touch on the nubby to cover large distances.)

It's the primary reason that I haven't bought a OS X laptop, even though it would be very nice. I can't stand trackpads, they're way too finicky.

--
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?

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