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XBMC Discontinues Xbox Support

Xistic writes with news that the XB in XBMC won't mean Xbox any more. Quoting the project's own website: "The last official release for the XBOX by the XBMC team was Atlantis, over 18 months ago. Since then, one brave soul (Arnova) has been merging code from the main codebase into the XBOX branch in our repository. Because there were many users out there that took advantage of these updates, we had no problem with this. But times have changed. The XBOX has hard limits for what it can handle. Some users are satisfied with these limits, and we encourage them to use XBMC there if they are happy. But it is a popular misconception that official XBOX development is still taking place by the team, so we have decided to set it free. We have enough on our plates already, and worrying about a deprecated platform just increases our workload. A few days ago the XBOX branch was finally removed from our subversion repository."

213 comments

  1. XBMC4XBOX Lives by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 5, Informative

    We have been working on taking over the xbox branch for the last couple of months. http://www.xbmc4xbox.org/ so if you feel you can help head on over. We still have tons of work to do but it's getting really close to being back on track with continued development.

    1. Re:XBMC4XBOX Lives by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Will builds still end up coming from T3CH or...?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:XBMC4XBOX Lives by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Eventually he and I will merge our builds but for now My builds now are totally vanilla. no changes from svn at all. t3ch updater should be able to pull my builds as well now so its all good there. Most updater scripts now have options to pull from my builds. After r28000 everything went to hell though and as of r30621 scrapers are still an issue. Actually all addons are an issue. No scripts/addons/skins writen for post 28000 will work on these new builds. I'm doing my best to fix/mod most of the skins I have onsite and adding scripts as they come through to allow people to fully utilize the newer svn builds and for the last few months it has been really touch and go. Last few builds are shaping up well though and at least TvDB scraper is working again :) It's something at least :)

    3. Re:XBMC4XBOX Lives by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Fantastic news! I'm wating for a Phenom II X6 price drop before I replace my Xbox. I want that black edition... Thanks for your hard work!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:XBMC4XBOX Lives by malakai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I feel a bit back stabbed by the XBMC core developers for cutting lose the whole reason for the project in the first place. Granted, it has many limitations, but limitations like these help make software more robust. When you have to worry about something like the FATX file system and it's limitations on characters and character length, the solutions you come up with help you solve other problems later on. Yes it takes more work, but it generally forces you to abstract out another level and really think about what you are building and the flow through the different modules.

      I've seen game engines keep around TTY plugins just for this reason.

      The XBOX port should be kept around as the bare minimum scalability test for all code. If your particular plugin is too CPU intensive to run even in a redacted state, then meta data should flag that with some sort of required minumum clacs/second threshold. Some people have moded their xbox with faster CPUs, more memory, etc...

      I appreciate the work the xbmc4xbox guy is putting into it. I run TECH builds non stop on my xbox's and have them setup to auto update from the tech installer. I really like the tech builds because they seemed to simply 'just work'. If you two can collaborate and make us build toned down for XBOX that'd be great.

      To the XBMC developers, I'd say look at ROCKBOX and CrystalSpace and other projects that have had to deal with limited hardware while trying to keep pace with new features and better hardware.

    5. Re:XBMC4XBOX Lives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect part of the issue is that the hardware just isn't there anymore. The Xbox hasn't been in production for about 4 years now.

    6. Re:XBMC4XBOX Lives by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Mods? Insightful? Puh-leez.

      I'm pretty sure they don't care at all how you feel "back stabbed".

      They spun off the code, you're more than welcome to fix your feelings of loss by taking it over.

      Mods: Insightful would have been, "Hey, I saw this coming and I've been putting in 20 hours a week working on the XBox port. I feel back stabbed because they didn't tell me they were about to throw the code out."

      Back-stabbing usually requires a personal relationship with someone.

      --
      +++OK ATH
  2. A pity; but not a huge shock... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In its day, and for a fair while after, the XBOX was an excellent deal for video applications. ~PIII-733 level performance and(rather more importantly) a decent set of video outs, something that was sort of dodgy with the PC graphics cards of the day. They got quite cheap, especially used, as well.

    However, at this point, a PIII-733 with, IIRC, 64MB of RAM, just isn't that exciting. Nor, with the proliferation of nettops, is the price delta between a real computer and a used xbox nearly what it used to be. Then there is the fact that, while XMBC as a project has always been legit, actually building it for the xbox has been legally kind of dodgy.

    1. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You can find a cheaper media center than a used XBox? How do you beat "free" when it comes to price?

      Seriously, we're at the point where you could even make a few bucks buying a used XBox with all the gadgets the former owner collected and then resell the addons while you keep the box.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      One of the big limitations is the fact that most content now is high definition (720p, 1080i, 1080p) - The xbox simply can't display HD video to appropriate display devices.

      Which is why my xbox has been on a shelf for 3-4 years without ever getting turned on at this point. I bought it as a MythTV frontend, and it worked for that purpose for a while, but then I bought a Silicon Dust HDHomeRun digital tuner in early 2006 and that rendered the xbox a paperweight as far as MythTV usage was concerned.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    3. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I have had no trouble finding SD content for my Xbox. For those of us who don't care about HD video (I'm not wearing my glasses to watch TV), the Xbox is a fine option.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Oh, there's no way in hell that anything contemporary is going to beat a used Xbox on price. Those things are at a practically perfect historical moment in terms of cheapness. Mass market item, so there are millions of them floating around. Generally considered obsolete(particularly now that MS scotched their multiplayer). Durable enough that many of those millions are still alive.

      And, given that today's move doesn't retroactively break XBMC builds for XBox, all those used Xboxes should be fine until they die or become victims of disinterest.

      However, it isn't a huge shock that the project would abandon further development on a decade-old hardware platform which imposes nontrivial constraints, particularly now that much more modern hardware is available at prices approaching what an Xbox went for in its heyday, but with a faster CPU, GPU, and mass storage, no dodgy legal build issues, and a supply that isn't gradually dwindling.

    5. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by linzeal · · Score: 1

      I can get a new dual core barebone system off Pricewatch for ~200 bucks. An Xbox is only useful if you are locked into it because of the games you bought. I've not owned a gaming system since the 8 bit Nintendo system, all the games I bought since DOS run on all the computers I own.

    6. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by negRo_slim · · Score: 1

      Yeah HD is fine for games and the odd OTA sports broadcast but there are really no other situations where I've even noticed HD resolution, let alone cared or sought it out.

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    7. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. I put together an Atom 330 media system w/2G RAM and a PCI 8400GS (that's PCI, not PCI-E) through a DVI to HDMI cable, that does full 1080p x264 AC3-5.1 MKV playback without putting more than 12% CPU load using vdpau-enabled mplayer. If you're still languishing in XviD-MP3 axxo mode, the xbox will do the trick, but there are better low-cost options that are significantly more capable, these days.

    8. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find that video resolution makes no difference for many flicks, but there are some which really benefit from HD. The three Pirates of the Caribbean flicks, for instance. I gained a whole new appreciation for Disney after watching these in HD, the attention to detail is phenomenal. The BBC documentaries (Planet Earth, Wild/South Pacific, etc), Baraka, Avatar, King Kong - I've seen all in SD and HD, and HD makes a difference. I'd say maybe 5 or 10 percent of the digital media available in HD is worth the stretch. I've yet to watch ANY television worth the extra bandwidth (even sports).

    9. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main benefit of an Xbox-based XBMC, IMO, is that it plays Xbox games, as well as some fairly mature emulator ports. So if you want to watch some video, you've got that, and if you want to play some games, you've got that, and all without needing a keyboard and mouse. I put mine above the treadmill a couple of years ago and I've lost a lot of weight :)

    10. Re:A pity; but not a huge shock... by BoberFett · · Score: 1

      I bought several Xboxes a couple years ago for $50 each. They're probably cheaper now. They don't have the power for HD material, but I don't do Bluray yet so most of my stuff is still DVD quality anyway. It looks quite good scaled up on the Xbox using XBMC, so for right now I'm quite happy to keep using them. It's unfortunate that development has stopped, but I can understand why, and I'll keep using the old builds until the Xboxes die, or I really decide I want to watch HD rips.

  3. XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by Parlett316 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That huge black box was the best media center I have had, the WD TV Live only comes close since it can play H.264.

    1. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by qortra · · Score: 1

      XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox

      And now, it's the best thing for everything else. If you're happy with your WDTV, then there isn't any sense in "fixing it". However, the day it dies or fails to do something that you'd like it to do, install XBMC on a spare PC to which you have access. It is absolutely the best media center software I have ever used.

    2. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by Parlett316 · · Score: 1

      Boxee has recently captured my attention and I've been playing with it on a VM. When I finally get around to building a HTPC I'm going to try both.

    3. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by elrous0 · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's a shame you had to physically mod the Xbox to get it. If MS had allowed for easy and legal installation of something like this, the Xbox would have taken off like a rocket (and the 360 too for that matter).

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by EllF · · Score: 1

      You actually didn't need to physically mod the XBox -- a copy of Splinter cell, a third-party memory card, and some software from the net were all you needed to "soft-mod" it. Same effect as a hardware mod, no need to open the case.

      --
      We who were living are now dying
      With a little patience
    5. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by JDAustin · · Score: 1

      I modded my old xbox which was closeted for 4 years recently. Splinter Cell cost me about $2 used. The bigger issue was finding a compatable USB stick.

    6. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 1

      I think half the point of the 360 was to copy all the stuff XMBC put in it. Of course, they still aren't there, but in terms of being a front end for a media server it does a good job. Of course, its still a walled garden so you can't do things like throw up hulu without some hacking, but if you do your timeshifting off bittorrent its just fine :)

    7. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by negRo_slim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is absolutely the best media center software I have ever used.

      Nothing beats the simple listing of directory content shared on a Windows PC by the 360, sure it would be nice to play all or create a play list. But I'll take that lack of functionality any day over some gaudy interface that does absolutely nothing other than create another obstacle between me and the content I want displayed on the screen. And if I ever feel the need for a pretty GUI to get to my videos, well then hey look at that Windows Media Center is already built right in!

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    8. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Boxee browser needs lots of work first, or it needs to support more sites. Lots of Fringe episodes on WB website, but boxee fails to play that at all.

    9. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by qortra · · Score: 1

      I've used Boxee as well. It really is pretty nice - imagine taking XBMC an adding a ton more content and a ton more bugs. I love it for my baseball games, but when I want to play my Flac library (which is buggy on Boxee), I find myself switching back to XBMC.

    10. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I modded mine about a year ago and, despite purchasing Splinter Cell and burning out a few old USB flash drives in the process, I found out that there are methods of soft modding the xbox by using a desktop PC that still has a PATA controller. I don't have a link ATM, but it is possible. My bigger issue is that I'm an idiot and haven't looked up how to update it, so the build is over a year old, but it ain't broke right now.

    11. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by qortra · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Wow, I don't even know where to start.

      Nothing beats the simple listing of directory content shared on a Windows PC by the 360

      XBMC is an absolute joy to use with a decent media library. I have around 225 movies, 6500 songs, and 4000 television episodes. XBMC cheerfully and quickly scrapes all the media information and indexes all video content by actor, year, genre, TV series, season number, and episode number. These indexes are really quite helpful, and if you don't like the added flexibility, the default functionality is to browse by directory anyway (what is more simple than that?). Not having used a 360 with Windows Media Center, I can't comment on that setup. I do however own a 360 that I use as a game console. It sounds like a jet engine, possesses about the same power efficiency as a Hummer, has a life span that compares poorly to a Yugo, and looks like a Caribbean oil leak. The thought of using it as my main media device chills me to my core.

      other than create another obstacle between me and the content I want displayed on the screen

      An Obstacle? What program were you running? The XBMC interface on my rig is so simple that my parents can use it. The fact that you consider it an obstacle is more telling about your computer competency (or lack thereof) than about the capabilities of XBMC.

      it would be nice to play all or create a play list

      It is shocking that WMC/XB360 can't do that. Both WMC and XB360 are software upgradeable, and have been upgraded on several occasions, yet they still lack these basic features. This is the kind of thing that always annoyed me with Microsoft. The good folks at XBMC, who aren't even getting payed, are better about listening to what I want than the $250b software giant.

      hey look at that Windows Media Center is already built right in!

      For those of us fortunate enough to have something other than Windows, it isn't built right in. Hell, it isn't even built into most copies of Windows! But whether you have MacOS, Windows (almost any version), Linux (almost any distribution), or even an Xbox, XBMC will run just fine. Also as somebody who was forced to use WMC at a previous domicile, it is a big heap of putrescence. While it handled OTA DVR relatively well, its support for various media types was completely underwhelming, and its extensibility was low. The third party "codec packs" that were required to make it work with even the most common of media types frequently broke and I was without Dolby Digital and DTS for a large portion of my tenure with WMC. That being said, I wasn't the one who maintained the system, and it probably would have worked better if I was.

    12. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by negRo_slim · · Score: 1

      It displays a list of all my media from inside NXE. Because you see, I'm there to consume my media. Not gawk at a UI.

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    13. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by tcdk · · Score: 1

      You can play H.264 with newer XBMCs on the original xbox. It's still our main media center. You only need to make sure the data rate doesn't saturate the CPU, by adding something like ":vbv-maxrate=2000:vbv-bufsize=750" to the advanced encoding settings in Handbrake. I also lower the resolution a bit in my default preset, but I'm not sure that's really needed..

      --
      TC - My Photos..
    14. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      And XBMC is perfectly happy to do the same if you want - just don't use Library Mode. The fact that it can play MKVs, AVI, XVID, and a zillion other containers and CODECs without much care taken to choose how it's encoded rocks. PS3 and 360 are more picky for sure or require a box in the back transcoding - no thanks. XBMC is far from gaudy but hey if yuo want something akin to a commandline be my guest - I'll stick to XBMC.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    15. Re:XBMC was the best thing for the Xbox by Cico71 · · Score: 1

      Of course, they still aren't there, but in terms of being a front end for a media server it does a good job.

      Good job? You must be joking. Can't access regular CIFS shares, requires DLNA and then it's not able to play FLAC, which is pretty much standard among people taking digital backups of their CDs, unless you have something that transcodes on-the-fly and not many NASs are powerful enough to do that. A complete failure I would say. Let alone the UI which is horrible.

  4. the irony of this by batistuta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is kind of funny how history made this package evolve. The XBMC, which abreviates "XBOX Media Center", was originally developed for the XBOX. And now, it supports different platforms and operating systems but not the XBOX any longer. If you don't know its history, you'd find it a joke what XBMC stands for.

    1. Re:the irony of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wow. I wouldn't have figured that out myself.

    2. Re:the irony of this by qortra · · Score: 3, Informative

      The XBMC, which abreviates "XBOX Media Center"

      If you don't know its history, you'd find it a joke what XBMC stands for.

      You might as well just say it. It now stands for "XBMC Media Center". Perhaps it's somewhat funny, but recursive acronyms are hardly new, and they have a long and proud tradition in Free Software. GNU, the name for the userspace tools in most Linux-based operating systems, is among the oldest of currently used recursive acronyms in free software.

    3. Re:the irony of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I prefer eX xBox Media Centre...

    4. Re:the irony of this by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      No it doesn't. It stands for nothing else than "XBMC".

      In the same manner "Tactical Studies Rules" became "TSR" meaning nothing else than "TSR".

    5. Re:the irony of this by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 2

      I thought TSR was Terminate and Stay Resident. Yah I'm that old :(

    6. Re:the irony of this by qortra · · Score: 1

      No it doesn't. It stands for nothing else than "XBMC".

      Can you provide evidence for this? It is entirely possible that they changed it again, but at one time it was a recursive acronym. My evidence is as follows:

      It means XBMC Media Center. It is officially a recursive acronym and has been for a few years. source - natethomas

      The "about" page of THIS SITE says 'XBMC, recursive acronym for "XBMC Media Center"' source - XFaktor

      XBMC is now only a semi-recursive acronym for XBMC Media Center. source - Gamester17

    7. Re:the irony of this by Gyske · · Score: 1

      "TSR" means nothing else than "Terminate and Stay Resident" ;)

    8. Re:the irony of this by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 1

      Still drives me crazy. XBMC means XBox Media Center. XBMC Media Center is like Windows NT Built on New Technology just way too much redundancy. They had to pretty much change the name to start distancing themselves [the devs] from the grey area that is XDK. I have personally built almost 800 builds now over the last 2 years on my binaries site [google XBMC nightly SVN. And whilst not a 10 ten site by any means I am freaked out every day on just how many people download XBMC 4 Xbox. In the last 14 months almost 950,000 downloads [all branches] of that XBMC 4 Xbox has been downloaded almost 90,000 times since 11/7/09[US] which is amazing considering this poor little old box has been around now for about 9 years now. It refuses to die :)

    9. Re:the irony of this by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 1

      grrr. i should not type after being up for 37 hours. The total download count is also from Nov.7.2009 so that is nearly a million downloads in 6 months. No wonder my host had a cow.

    10. Re:the irony of this by qortra · · Score: 1

      Yep, just because they're ending support doesn't mean that the XBox branch isn't still wildly popular. I for one still have a deployment at my folks' place.

      Out of curiosity, are the nightly SVNs usually stable enough for production? Does that site archive known-stable revision of the repository and/or document which revisions tend to be relatively trouble-free?

    11. Re:the irony of this by ShadyG · · Score: 1

      ...and you can now say "SAT Test" without too much ridicule, as SAT no longer stands for anything. Mostly due to people having problems with the words "Aptitude".

    12. Re:the irony of this by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 1

      I normally keep the last 100 builds online. TeamXBMC does the stables :P. It REALLY depends on the day as to whether they are stable enough for production use. Right now? Not so much. Well it depends on the platform. Xbox is not getting any of the crazy stuff that is going into the other branches for obvious reasons. And right now Arnova is pretty much chillin on updates [usually about once a week] so even though it gets built nightly, it doesn't get changed nearly as much as the other branches, so yeah. It is pretty much always stable enough for every day usage. phew

    13. Re:the irony of this by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 1

      Oh God, Apple should fracking buy it and call it Halo.

      --
      If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
    14. Re:the irony of this by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      You offering full DLs or hosting as Torrents? You might save some bandwidth by hosting torrents and having a machine somewhere with full copies to seed. Hats off to you continuing to host the XBOX supported versions for those who want them but I have to admit I'm happy to see them move forward. Especially with a new milestone coming up fast, they needed to cut the legacy string. So long as someone out there is still willing to backport good updates the XBOX guys should continue to enjoy updates but the current dev team has bigger fish to fry IMO.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    15. Re:the irony of this by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 1

      way too much work dealing with torrents. I have over the last couple of years setup a fairly good automated system for nightly builds on all platforms. I just let it do its thing then test them to make sure they work and then type in a build# and a stupid comment and the site does all the work for me. As far as bandwidth is has pretty much topped out at about 1.5TB per month so its not so bad. I have an unlimited account [which is actually limited to about 3TB per month] so I am not hurting :) And people like being able to download the bins without having to deal with a bunch of crap. It also allows me to open some API's up that let other projects use my builds so it benefits all :)

    16. Re:the irony of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought TSR was Terminate and Stay Resident. Yah I'm that old :(

      You mean young. Dungeons and Dragons was around for more than a couple of years before either PC-DOS or MS-DOS.

      I don't know if CP/M took advantage of int 13h in the same way as DOS TSR programs, but even if it did, I think TSR (the company) was around a couple of years prior to CP/M's advent.

    17. Re:the irony of this by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      That's a "TSR program" not "TSR inc" :)

      Favorite TSR program: the ping-pong virus! (Nah, Desqview really)

    18. Re:the irony of this by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      The official description: http://xbmc.org/about/

  5. The end of an era...but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...XBMC showed what a dedicated hacker community could accomplish with tight code and open source to draw upon.

    For years to come, the XBMC community will be a shining example of what a hacker group can accomplish.

    XBMC was the first truly great hack project.

    1. Re:The end of an era...but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about the Linux kernel?

    2. Re:The end of an era...but by Tink2000 · · Score: 1

      I'd have said the Trojan Horse was the first truly great hack project.

  6. Can a nettop that can run media centre software? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    I thought that the XBOX graphics chipset was the reason that it could run. CAn any nettops run media PC stuff reasonably well?

  7. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Buy something with hdmi and nvidia ion and I'm sure you can run xbmc with hd content.

    I'm less sure about how good chipset acceleration is in standard intel atom netbooks etc.

  8. Maybe now they've freed up all that resource... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...they can implement horizontal scrolling in audio on the non-XBOX platforms.

    At the moment XBMC is unusable for audiobooks with mouse/keyboard control.

  9. Alternatives? by Tigris666 · · Score: 1

    Out of curiosity, what are people using instead? I was looking to upgrade from the old noise xbox about 2 years ago because it couldn't play 720p, so I went with the ps3. It suffers because it can't play mkv but has some conversion tools, but still I find many avi files it can't play. Would definitely be interested in alternative hardware to install XBMC onto other than my xbox, so long as it doesn't require me assembling it myself or any crazy linux installs trying to get hdmi and 3d cards to play nicely.

    --
    Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer J. Simpson
    1. Re:Alternatives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WD Tv Live is a good alternative. It will play 1080p content mkv's included. The one thing I like about XBMC is that it will play iso's that I have of ripped dvds and also plays files within rar's.

    2. Re:Alternatives? by qortra · · Score: 1

      Just about any decent hardware will work fine with XBMC. Zotac Ion seems to be a popular choice at the moment. If you want to seriously research out what to buy, visit the XBMC Hardware Discussion forum

    3. Re:Alternatives? by RMH101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think best option is probably an Ion chipset small box, and run XBMC natively booting off USB/SD card. One of the nice things about my Xbox XBMC is that it works like an appliance - it does't need to be booted/shutdown like a conventional OS - you just turn it on and off. Yes, I know it boots, but you know what I mean - my kids can use it, turn it on/off with impunity etc.
      It's the little things that count - the Xbox had IR control, a DVD drive, and didn't ever need a keyboard or mouse connected to work. It's going to be difficult to replace with something half as functional and easy to use...

    4. Re:Alternatives? by drb_chimaera · · Score: 1

      Personally I've gone with Ion-based nettops running Ubuntu linux and XBMC with vdpau enabled. VDPAU offloads the video processing onto the onboard graphics and means that the machine can handle playing HD streams quite happily. It was pretty much off the shelf and required next to no special skills to get it working. The machines are cheap (£150 and up) and almost silent.

    5. Re:Alternatives? by qortra · · Score: 1

      booting off USB/SD card

      As an ardent quiet-computing aficionado, this was one of the first components that I purchased when I started building my XBMC rigs. My word of caution is that you really want something with very decent write performance, since the average XBMC system will have to do a lot of writing in its lifetime. The most common kind of writing that an XBMC system has to do is caching the results from scrapings. This includes not only movie/tv actor, genre, description, year, and other text vitals, but also fanart, some of which can be very large. The other major writing that you'll do is when you "apt-get dist-upgrade" your system (something that you'll inevitably want to do). If you don't have decent write performance, a USB drive (or SD card) will make your life miserable.

      In fact, if you have the money, I highly recommended getting a decent SATA SSD drive. Unfortunately, this is a serious expenditure and will nearly double the cost of an XBMC rig on its own.

    6. Re:Alternatives? by BarryJacobsen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For $100 you can get an Asus O!Play that will play all your files (at 1080p, including MKVs), has HDMI output, and comes with a remote, and requires no additional software.

    7. Re:Alternatives? by j-cloth · · Score: 1

      I've been running it on a Mac Mini for a few years. If I did it again, I'd get an Ion machine, but the mini works great in either OSX (with XBMC or the mac fork Plex) or in Linux. Having a real CPU means that I don't have to worry about VDPAU and such to get 1080p working, I just let the thing chug and I've never dropped a frame.

    8. Re:Alternatives? by LizardKing · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, what are people using instead?

      I got given an Apple TV, one of the first ones with a fairly low hard drive capacity. My original plan was to install NetBSD or Linux onto it, but I out of curiosity I first installed XBMC and Boxee as apps for the original Apple TV OS. I've never got around to installing another OS on it now, as use I regularly use it for watching BBC iPlayer stuff and the occasional film rented from iTunes.

    9. Re:Alternatives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got 2 of the original Xboxes. I bricked one of them trying to get XBMC installed. I haven't gotten around to toying with the second one, but interest in it's potential lead me to go the whole nine build a HTPC based on Vista (Win7 wasn't out yet, but that's what it is running now). So, that's what I'm using in my house at the moment. I have 2 Xbox 360s and 2 Linksys extenders distributing it's content around the house over Cat5e. It has two dual-tuner PCIe cards in it to record all the unencrypted TV we watch, and they'll be replaced with CableCard tuners later this year. It has almost 3 TB of starage, so it also holds my entire DVD/Blu ray collection, MP3 library, photo collection and accesses Hulu, Netflix and YouTube.

      It has high wife approval factor and my 10-year old navigates it easy enough. It's nice having my Time Bandits disk safe from her destructive hands.

      I have coworkers that own PS3s and they do notice the lack of format support. There is an app called PS3 Media Center that will run as a service on one of your networked PCs. I hear it does a decent job of transcoding formats that the PS3 won't natively handle.

    10. Re:Alternatives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have their own forum/wiki. You should check it out for answers.

    11. Re:Alternatives? by Nukenbar · · Score: 1

      While the XBMC still had a better interface, once I started playing more 720 and 1080p videos I bought a Popcorn hour.

      There is a pretty active support base and it is pretty easily to customize it, but the options are still limited compared to what you could do with XBMC. But if your main use of XBMC was to play videos and now you want to play HD, a popcorn hour or similar device does it pretty well for $200.

    12. Re:Alternatives? by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      As an ardent quiet-computing aficionado, this was one of the first components that I purchased when I started building my XBMC rigs.

      Why not just netboot and bypass the issue entirely? At least use a remote drive for all this metadata and fanart. Certainly you have a server or NAS box stuffed away in a closet or the basement, and aren't storing all your media on that same flash drive.

    13. Re:Alternatives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Popcorn Hour products are great. I've got an A-110 NMT, draws 6 watts w/out a hard drive (plays HD media from a fileserver), utterly silent
      Alternately, if you don't need local storage, then the Popbox will likely do the trick.

    14. Re:Alternatives? by adolf · · Score: 1

      The original Xbox remote and controllers (and memory cards, FWIW) were all USB. Just solder some USB A connectors on, or buy some cheap Xbox controller extensions and hack those instead.

      I haven't researched this, but I'd place a bet on the notion that someone has written the necessary glue software to integrate these peripherals with XBMC running on whatever OS on a PC.

      So, if you want the same behavior (only faster), there's an easy route to do it.

  10. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by GraemeDonaldson · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, Zotac ION boards do it exceptionally well according to pretty much every review I've read. I'm going to build a HTPC based on one of these.

    --
    I think, therefore I am. I think?
  11. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

    Get a Nettop with the Nvidia ION chipset, put Linux and XBMC on it and you have a cheap, tiny, silent HTPC with HDMI and hardware accelerated video playback playing those 1080p MKV's without problem. Some of them (Asus Eee Box, ASRock Nettop and Acer Aspire Revo for example) also come with a remote control.

    --
    My other account has a 3-digit UID.
  12. Dull surprise by DirePickle · · Score: 1

    I'm amazed this thing could ever run on an XBOX. I installed it once on a dual-core 2.2GHz something-or-other with a few gigs of ram and it was just... awful. Huge delay between pressing a button and anything happening. Slow menu changes. Etc.

    1. Re:Dull surprise by qortra · · Score: 1

      Huge delay between pressing a button and anything happening. Slow menu changes.

      Sounds like you didn't have decent hardware video acceleration. The XBMC processor and memory requirements are quite modest, and you are well over them. Heck, XBMC runs like a dream on the Ion platform which uses atom processors (the most meek processor you will ever meet). It's all about video acceleration, something that the XBox was quite good at for its time.

    2. Re:Dull surprise by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      Your system is probably misconfigured. XBMC runs perfectly on an Acer netbook with 1GB RAM, Atom and an Intel 3100 onboard graphics card (with Windows XP).

    3. Re:Dull surprise by DirePickle · · Score: 1, Informative

      GeForce 8800 GT not enough? Maybe somewhere in the chugging menus there was a setting to enable video acceleration that defaulted to 'off', but woo. I'd honestly never seen a program run that poorly on that computer.

    4. Re:Dull surprise by H.G.Blob · · Score: 1

      Actually it runs on the beagleboard too

    5. Re:Dull surprise by DirePickle · · Score: 1

      I knew someone would say something like that--but I can guarantee that my system wasn't 'misconfigured'. I'm actually half-convinced that the slow menus were a UI decision sort of like Windows Vista's half-second start-menu-fade-in. Though it may be that it was a bad build of the program, or a conflict between the program and a driver, or some setting in XBMC that needed to be changed.

    6. Re:Dull surprise by Neil+Hodges · · Score: 1

      Did you even enable VDPAU?

    7. Re:Dull surprise by DirePickle · · Score: 1

      It was a Windows machine, and I think it was before VDPAU was available, anyway.

    8. Re:Dull surprise by DirePickle · · Score: 1

      So I actually just gave it a try on my laptop running linux (a slower, but still reasonably fast system), just to see, and it actually ran much better. I still think the UI is ass, but it definitely wasn't the torpid thing I saw on Windows a couple of years ago. Bad build, crappy nvidia drivers, vagaries of Windows XP, combination of the above?

    9. Re:Dull surprise by qortra · · Score: 3, Informative

      Configuration failure. I've seen XBMC running flawlessly on various chipsets from vintage 2007 integrated ATI chipsets and old 5xxx series Nvidia cards to 4xxx series ATI cards and newer AMD/ATI integrated chipsets. In fact, I doubt that it is even an XBMC configuration problem - sounds like DirectX or your NVIDIA drivers are out of date. Either way, head over to the XBMC Forums" for support. It's a fantastic community that will almost certainly help you out with your problem. Only, try not to slander XBMC until you figure out how you mis-configured your system.

    10. Re:Dull surprise by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      Might have simply been "too early in the porting process".

      At that point the codebase would still have been heavily Xbox-focused (and optimized towards that platform).

      Over the years as the Xbox has become a less optimal platform for media (can't really do HD, and the whole world has basically gone to high def), so the devs have moved focus towards platforms other than xbox.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    11. Re:Dull surprise by Mr.+DOS · · Score: 1

      I experienced the same thing. A friend of mine has his Xbox modded to run XBMC, and he encouraged me to try it on my computer. I just couldn't do it. On (I think it was) a 3.2GHz P4 with a gig of RAM, it was practically unusable. I don't know what the difference is, but on an Xbox, even at 720p, it's relatively smooth.

    12. Re:Dull surprise by DirePickle · · Score: 1

      1) Drivers and DirectX were current. Are always current, unless I know they break something. nvidia's drivers frequently break things, though, so perhaps they were not good with XBMC at the time.

      2) This was quite a while ago--don't even have most of the same components anymore (well, the 8800 GT is still around).

      3) PS3MS worked much better for my purposes anyway.

      4) If you'll look a couple levels up, I replied to my first comment saying that the problems did not appear when I just installed it in linux (after getting a few other fans protecting their loved one).

      5) I'll still slander XBMC, because it ha(s/d) an obnoxious UI. ;)

      6) I'll concede that the UI probably wasn't designed with a mouse in mind.

    13. Re:Dull surprise by qortra · · Score: 1

      2,4) Acknowledged. Trying to figure out why software wasn't working with a no-longer-in-service system configuration is fruitless. Suffice it to say, modern XBMC works flawlessly with even the most meek system configurations (as long as they have decent video acceleration). 5) This is, of course, a subjective measurement. That being said, it is certainly an atypical opinion of the XBMC UI. I personally have found it to be both beautiful and functional. My non-techie roommates and parents have been able to navigate XBMC with ease, and have noted how much they like it. In fact, I managed to convert a few people who have been at my house and seen my setup. It is worth noting that the XBMC uses a 10 foot interface (just like your PS3). It isn't designed to be used by a nerd huddled up next to a laptop like a white guy driving a Geo. If that's what you're looking for, perhaps you should be using something else anyway. 6) Well conceded - as mentioned before, XBMC is a 10 foot interface. It definitely isn't meant to be used with mice. In fact, many of the skins specifically advise the they are not mouse compatible (though this will probably change in the next version).

    14. Re:Dull surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ran the Live version for a long time on a 1.6 P4 cast-off from work with a 7xxx Nvidia without any of those issues.

    15. Re:Dull surprise by soupd · · Score: 1

      Weird. I run XBMC on a 2Ghz Core2Duo 1Gb RAM Intel GMA950-based MacMini with OSX 10.6 which also runs TED (scheduled torrent downloader) and Transmission (P2P client) and it XBMC outputs 1080p from an external USB drive just fine as well as downloading in the background. iStatPro tells me the CPU-usage never goes over 90% (1080p only). On a modern MacMini with 9400M GPU it'd probably never peak above 40% CPU usage.

    16. Re:Dull surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, no, come on guys, one person has some anecdotal evidence about XBMC being slow, ergo it must be true, despite the massive fan base and huge number of users.

    17. Re:Dull surprise by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I think by mis-configured everyone means your XBMC settings were not correct for your system.

      I use it and have none of the issues you describe.
      The only problem I have with it is when I play 720p MKV on my TV using XBMC on XBox...
      Scene changes freeze frame for about 250mS, long enough to be disconcerting, but quite acceptable given the HW that I'm running it on. On my media PC *everything* is smooth as glass.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    18. Re:Dull surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chances are he tested it during the VERY early days of the windows/linux ports when they where using software for all video (no hardware support on any platform) IE it was for rapid testing of skin development at that point.

    19. Re:Dull surprise by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Good you kept that 800, it would work great in an XBMC build it you don't choose to spend the money for a board with onboard NVIDIA. Probably won't do HDMI output or HDMI audio though. Spend a couple of bux on an ION rig and be happy...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    20. Re:Dull surprise by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      By misconfigured I think he means the guy didn't bother to take the time to set it up right and would rather rag on it years after the fact because he was too lazy to get it running way back when. My main XBMC machine was a 2.2Ghz dual core with an 8800 for well over a year and it would even play the "killa sample" video without dropping frames - this was BEFORE VDPAU. When VDPAU became available I swapped the mobo, dumped the video card, and used an onboard NVIDIA chipset to do both 5.1 audio and 1080P video - and slowed the CPU down with zero dropped frames. Finally ION came along and I'm now using an even slower CPU with video acceleration to do the same. No lag or delay, it just works. But hey, years ago his setup didn't work so he is sad about it even today - never mind that he tried to run it on XP with a mouse. Meh, one less person on the XBMC forums crying so far as I'm concerned.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    21. Re:Dull surprise by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Have you looked at the Crystal HD cards? You could offload a great deal of HD decoding if you could manage to squeeze one of those on-board. You'd lose the wireless card and have to use a dongle but for the price I think you'd have a much cooler running machine.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  13. Hardware alternative to XBOX? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm down to my last two XBOXen (components just die after 10 years).

    Is there currently another device that runs XBMC and is/has:

        o sub $100;
        o instant on;
        o ethernet & video ports;
        o IR controller support;

    Something like the WD TV Live seems to have the right hardware but I suspect the GUI blows and codec support is always a couple of steps behind.
    Has anybody tried the b-rad firmware?

    Any suggestions? (I'm quite open to building my own but can't see how to meet all of the above criteria.)

    1. Re:Hardware alternative to XBOX? by Parlett316 · · Score: 1

      The D-Link Boxee device looks interesting if it ever decides to get released. The beauty of the Xbox w/ XBMC was that you didn't have to reconfigure hardware and dick with drivers.

    2. Re:Hardware alternative to XBOX? by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      Using a ION nettop is the current best replacement for an Xbox for XBMC. It takes about 10-15 seconds to power on and be at the menu after starting from powered off, but you can sleep it and have it wake instantly. The ION boards have built-in Ethernet, and normally VGA and HDMI. You'll also be able to find boards with a TOS-link audio out, but all of the ones with HDMI also support audio over that connection. IR support is a cheap USB adapter if build your own. Getting the box to power on via IR is tricky, but the Xbox didn't support that either.

      The only thing you can't have it sub $100. The only devices you'll be able to get in that range are like the WD TV Live. None of the devices will make you happy when you compare their interfaces to XMBC.

    3. Re:Hardware alternative to XBOX? by QuantumBeep · · Score: 1
  14. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Buy something with hdmi and nvidia ion and I'm sure you can run xbmc with hd content.

    I'm less sure about how good chipset acceleration is in standard intel atom netbooks etc.

    I have both, as well as a couple of small VIA boxen.

    Basically, for 1080p IMAX content, get an ION based atom. I have a Zotac N330 running the latest XBMC. It can do the aforementioned quality at 60fps, has an onboard HDMI out (including audio!) and was extremely simple to set up.
    Zotac ION UK price: £130 plus a stick of ram and a case. It's great value! Just remember to offload the graphics using VDPAU (it's a setting inside XBMC).

    The Atom DG (Intel reference) doesn't do anything like it. The VIA equivalents don't have graphic support for linux VDPAU either. Net result - they struggle with anything over SDTV. forget 720p or above with those.

  15. Other Platforms by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    I don't get why it even supports other platforms in the first place.

    it is a amazing xbox media center(on an amazing console), but the whole design in my opinion does not work well at all for high res mouse environments.

    It would be interesting to see the ratio of xbox users to other users of the xbmc.

    Does anyone hear use it on their computer, I sincerely do not get why anyone would (unless they changes it radically since the last time I used it).

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:Other Platforms by pumkinut · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've been using XBMC for over 5 years now. Up until last year it was completely on two XBoxen. It was fine for it's time, but as more and more HD content became available, the XBox started revealing its limitations in a big way.

      I started using XBMC on a computer with the Live version on a USB thumbdrive. I would boot the thumbdrive on my work laptop and plug into my HDTV via a VGA connection. Last summer I built a full fledged mini-ITX HTPC with a Zotac Intel motherboard and integrated nVidia graphics. I don't use a mouse to control it. I use my Wii remote or a PS3 Bluetooth remote. Both work well. The Wiimote works almost completely out of the box, the PS3 remote takes some work.

      If you visit the XBMC boards, you see that there are plenty of people using it on computers both hooked up to televisions and those that aren't. It's available for Linux, Windows, and OSX. There's even a GSOC project for porting it to a Beagleboard platform.

      If you can't understand why someone would use it on a comp, then you haven't seen it lately.

      --
      "It's hard to be a man when there's a gun in your hand"
    2. Re:Other Platforms by Compholio · · Score: 1

      Does anyone hear [sic] use it on their computer, I sincerely do not get why anyone would (unless they changes [sic] it radically since the last time I used it).

      Yes, I use it on my computer that I have plugged into my TV.

    3. Re:Other Platforms by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You know why I used an XBox as a media center in the first place? It had a SCART adapter and I had an old CRT that just so happened to "already" have a SCART plug. It was simply and plainly cheaper than any solution I could have designed to connect any of my PCs to that TV. And even today, it would possibly be the cheapest way to get a media box going for your TV. Did you check lately what those DVI to HDMI cables cost? A used XBox beats that any time. Plus you don't use up one of the screens of your PC and you don't use up its audio capability. Sure, you could use another computer, but then we're still at the point where you need some way to connect it to your TV and we're back at the cable price. Yes, yes, you'd also need that cable for the XBox, but buying a box used means that you get that cable thrown in for free, and the price of a used XBox (with a ton on games coming free as an addon) rarely even comes close to the price of even the lowest spec PC you could assemble.

      So unless you really, absolutely need HDMI (I'm no movie enthusiast, the only thing I'd want is History Channel HD, and only because it's available, it's not like I need that HD to enjoy HC), what's the reason not to go for an XBox for your TV needs?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Other Platforms by RonnyJ · · Score: 1

      It might not work especially well with a mouse - but it works very well with a remote control.

      Connect a remote control, and a large monitor/HDTV, and it's one of the best media centre interfaces out there.

    5. Re:Other Platforms by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      "but the whole design in my opinion does not work well at all for high res mouse environments."
      Um that's the exact point.

      It's designed for people who are building HTPCs, connecting them to a TV, and controlling them with a remote control.

      The idea is that if you have to touch a mouse or keyboard (assumption: properly configured remote control is attached to the system), the XBMC developers have failed in their UI design.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    6. Re:Other Platforms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you check lately what those DVI to HDMI cables cost?

      ...$3.24 from Monoprice?

    7. Re:Other Platforms by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      Did you check lately what those DVI to HDMI cables cost?

      What about $4? The Xbox is still a great option for a HTPC; however, if you want HD content you are extremely limited in what it can do. If HD isn't important to you then stick with what you have. But many PCs are now coming with HDMI connectors built-in and it's only a few bucks to but a cable or adapter to go from DVI-HDMI if you needed to.

      http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023104&p_id=2404&seq=1&format=2

    8. Re:Other Platforms by soupd · · Score: 1

      XBMC runs just fine on a MacMini with no keyboard/mouse and using just the standard 5 button Apple remote for navigation.

    9. Re:Other Platforms by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Does anyone hear use it on their computer, I sincerely do not get why anyone would (unless they changes it radically since the last time I used it).

      I do, but the computer I am using it on (Mac mini) is designated as an HTPC, and home file server. The computer is plugged into my TV and I use a Logitech Harmony remote for controlling it. I did recently get a wireless keyboard for dealing with the things the remote couldn't handle.

      People tend to start off with basic expectations of their HTPC, and then end up piling on what they want to do with it. Sure you could have a separate media server and have a thin client connected to your TV, but in many cases having one small computer fill both tasks is actually and simpler set up.

      While I use a Mac mini, other solutions I have looked at are the Shuttle X27D and the Dell Inspiron Zino.

      In case you are interested there is whole community dedicated to the Mac mini, whether using MacOS X, Windows or Linux: http://www.123macmini.com/ - you can also check out the gallery to see some of the HTPC setups.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    10. Re:Other Platforms by GoodNicksAreTaken · · Score: 1

      I have XBMC running on an Acer Aspire Revo nettop as well as on an original Xbox with a Windows MCE remote. The interface looks pretty and the hardware has HDMI output. I've got the HD cables for my Xbox though and we use the Xbox more often because it does everything I need it to without extra complications. Sure, I could use a different remote and change somethings to simplify it. The Xbox though appears to load XBMC more quickly although I've never actually timed it. It is also really nice to be able to play the old Xbox games and things through an emulator occasionally. My nettop will soon be repurposed as I am content with my Xbox XBMC and have no need for all the fancy new features other than keeping the Google Video and other plugins updated to work.

  16. TV Support = real media center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps now XBOXs aren't supported, they could put in support for Live TV? XBMC is awesome, but pretty useless as a 'media center' without live tv support.

    1. Re:TV Support = real media center by pumkinut · · Score: 1

      There are SVN branches that offer front end support to different live TV backends. MythTV is a viable backend with XBMC.

      --
      "It's hard to be a man when there's a gun in your hand"
    2. Re:TV Support = real media center by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Has it - the box supports the HDHomerun. It also has support for the Myth backend server. Rather than rewrite the wheel ala MythTV the devs are going to hook into what's already been built. If you want Live TV and DVR build a Myth backend and figure out how to hook it to an XBMC front-end. It's not fully baked yet but that's the path and it's much smarter than trying to do all of that work themselves. Frankly though I seldom watch Live TV and instead watch stuff I've yanked from my DVR or downloaded.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  17. Xbox still great! by orateam · · Score: 1

    We own a highend PC gaming rig, 2 xbox 360's, PS3, 2 Wii's, dreamcast, psp, and of course the XBOX. The XBOX along with it's XBMC is still our most coveted machine. I once rented it out to a nightclub on weekends for a commission that got me $300 a weekend. With its slick OS and ability to store games galore on it, it was meant to be the future and it was. It still is the only gaming rig that allows me to use CDX to emulate any older console (ninento, sega genesis, etc) and Mame for arcade games of yesteryear. No other machine has this ability. I don't see why it's no longer supported. With PS3 removing support for Linux distros, this is it. KEEP XBOX support alive.

    1. Re:Xbox still great! by damien_kane · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wii has emulators for every older console available for it, and the classic controller is closer to those older controllers than an xbox-controller.

    2. Re:Xbox still great! by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=40715

      It's coming, slowly, but it's coming. XBMC can do this and it will be able to do so on a lowly ATOM CPU I predict... the devs have just had bigger fish to fry getting the other things working.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  18. Great move by the XBMC team (Still a little sad) by AZURERAZOR · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a XBMC user on the old Xbox platform, I would like to say thank you to all the code monkeys out there who made that old junky hardware viable for nearly ten years even though it was not the purpose design for the hardware.

    I see this as a great move for the project to disregard the limitations of the original hardware as they revitalize the project to better compete with some of the other Media Center software that has started looking more attractive in the last 2 years.

    Good by Xbox, you had a good run!

  19. Re:Golden Girls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Confidant. Not cosmonaut. Does cosmonaut make sense there? Idiot.

  20. apparently you're not nearly old enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or maybe just not geeky enough.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSR,_Inc.#Tactical_Studies_Rules "TSR" meant "Tactical Studies Rules" to geeks nearly a decade before "Terminate and Stay Resident".

    I actually played a dungeon with Jim Ward back in the mid-80's, dunno why he's not even mentioned in the history of TSR...

    1. Re:apparently you're not nearly old enough by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Any of us old geeks know the zip code for Lake Geneva, Wisconsin by heart: 53147

  21. XBMC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that some kind of cross between XKCD and SMBC?

  22. Still happily run mine by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

    My XBMC original Xbox setup happily powers my 32" LCD just fine and wirelessly streams media (bridged wireless router) through my house from my server. Serves up all the old game systems and games, and even some cool streaming from the Internet via a few apps. I wish it had Netflix or Hulu, but oh well, once something comes out that rivals it full and for a low enough price I'll switch, but for now it just keeps chugging along fine.

    Hoping new ventures pick it up and run with it.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  23. The Xbox graphics chipset by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Xbox graphics chipset had only two advantages over PC chipsets of the time: 3D graphics, and SDTV output as a standard feature. The SDTV feature is less important now that virtually all TVs made in the past three years have VGA and HDMI inputs. And unless one writes half the video decoder in a shader (as in some modern H.264 decoders), 3D graphics won't take much load off the CPU for video decoding; perhaps the biggest thing a GeForce 3-class pixel shader can do is help convert YUV to RGB. Remember that the video codec that was popular among pirates and spaceshifters at the time was MPEG-4 Advanced Simple Profile (DivX and Xvid), which is roughly on par with Theora and less computationally complex than H.264.

  24. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Pvt_Ryan · · Score: 1

    Can you post your Zotac setup?

    Where you got it for that price would be nice to know, cheapest I can see is £160 for just the MB.

    Did you need to buy a PSU for that board/case or did the case/board come with it?

  25. What a great run by The+Yuckinator · · Score: 1

    Congratulations and a big THANK YOU to everyone who has ever had a part in making XBMC possible.

    I have had hours of fun building, breaking and rebuilding my xbox. In fact I don't think I've spent even 1% of the time playing games on it than I have using XBMC in various capacities. Whether trying out new scripts and plugins or just generally screwing around and customizing things, it has provided me with an awful lot of enjoyment.

    It also makes a great present for a friend since used Xboxes are only about $25. Come to think of it, I've got one modded and booting to XBMC just sitting in the trunk of my car. I should probably take that out of there.

    I'll look to some of the suggestions in this thread for my next-gen XBMC machine. I've tried to use a PS3 as a media centre. I just didn't like it, probably because I'm so used to XBMC.

    THANKS XBMC

  26. Aspire Revo by tepples · · Score: 1

    But does an Asus O!Play also play games? Those who use XBMC on an Xbox can reboot to the Windows XB dashboard to run single-player or local-multiplayer Xbox games. Likewise, those who use XBMC on an Acer Aspire Revo (a $200 ION nettop) can reboot to Windows to run single-player or local-multiplayer PC games, although the local-multiplayer selection for PC is a bit limited due to the historical lack of TV-sized PC monitors.

    1. Re:Aspire Revo by BarryJacobsen · · Score: 1

      But does an Asus O!Play also play games? Those who use XBMC on an Xbox can reboot to the Windows XB dashboard to run single-player or local-multiplayer Xbox games. Likewise, those who use XBMC on an Acer Aspire Revo (a $200 ION nettop) can reboot to Windows to run single-player or local-multiplayer PC games, although the local-multiplayer selection for PC is a bit limited due to the historical lack of TV-sized PC monitors.

      No, it can't play games. I use the PS3 or my desktop for that. He asked what people are using instead of XBMC for videos (MKVs and AVIs that the PS3 doesn't like in particular, and made no mention of games), and that's what I'm using instead and it plays those MKVs and AVIs fine.

    2. Re:Aspire Revo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have to reboot, even, you just launch the game from XBMC. I don't have any other dashboards installed, and it makes no difference. Maybe it would for Xbox live though? I don't know, I only do single player.

    3. Re:Aspire Revo by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      There's currently some movement afoot to have the current XBMC support emulators just as it does video - with a scraped catalog etc.

      Several threads on the XBMC forums about it but this one seems to be the most updated -> http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=40715

      If folks are willing to help PLEASE do so! MAME runs fine on these boxes and with the add-on framework coming this milestone to XBMC it's my hope that something awesome can be built to allow MAME and other emulators to run :-)

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  27. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Zotac offers a Z-Box mini PC where you have everything except RAM and harddrive for 200 - 250€. They don't offer space for a disc drive and I'm kind of suspicious about the cooling, but it's worth a look.

  28. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Nearly all nettops are NVidia ION based.

    The CPU in any nettop (at the worst a single core Intel Atom) is somewhat better than the 733 MHz PIII in the Xbox (Maybe significantly? I'm assuming the PIII has significantly better performance per clock cycle than the Atom, but I'm not sure if it's enough of a delta to make up for less than half the clock speed), and the Ion is a significantly better NVidia chipset than the one in the Xbox.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  29. Or an ION nettop by tepples · · Score: 1

    It still is the only gaming rig that allows me to use CDX to emulate any older console (ninento, sega genesis, etc) and Mame for arcade games of yesteryear.

    How do you dump your NES, Sega Genesis, and Super NES carts to put them on your emulator rig? I know the Retrode works with Sega Genesis and Super NES carts, but it's fairly new, and it doesn't work with NES games.

    No other machine has this ability.

    Not even an ION nettop such as Acer Aspire Revo? The HDMI and VGA outputs work with any HDTV, and the VGA out also works with SDTVs through a $30 adapter cable.

    1. Re:Or an ION nettop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you dump your NES, Sega Genesis, and Super NES carts to put them on your emulator rig? I know the Retrode works with Sega Genesis and Super NES carts, but it's fairly new, and it doesn't work with NES games.

      He doesn't dump them, he downloads them. XBMC on the xbox isn't even legal by itself, so what makes you think he's jumping through ridiculous hoops to legally obtain old roms? Stop being such a troll.

    2. Re:Or an ION nettop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not even an ION nettop such as Acer Aspire Revo? The HDMI and VGA outputs work with any HDTV, and the VGA out also works with SDTVs through a $30 adapter cable.

      Not as nicely as the xport emulator series for the xbox, at least. Those emus were ported from PC and got an UI on the xbox that is strictly made for joypad usage, along with nice previews and other Metadata. PC based console-emulators are either completely mouse dependent or have lousy joypad support hacked in (like MAME).

      Also, framerate/Vsync synching works perfectly on the xbox, which results in buttersmooth scrolling on 8-bit and 16 bit titles, where PC based emus always had problems (this might not be the case anymore, it has been a long time since i tried PC based emus on TV). This might sound silly, but is a very important aspect for retrogamers...

    3. Re:Or an ION nettop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not even an ION nettop such as Acer Aspire Revo? The HDMI and VGA outputs work with any HDTV, and the VGA out also works with SDTVs through a $30 adapter cable.

      For Retrogaming, nothing beats the XBOX. The xport-series of emulators feature an UI designed for joypad usage and nice previews and other Metadata. PC-based emus are mousedependent (MAME has some lousy joypad support hacked in for the ROM browser) and seldom feature previews and the like.

      Also, the Vsync works perfect on the xbox. This means buttersmooth scrolling on those 8bit and 16bit titles, whereas PC based emus traditionally either had lots of tearing or stuttery (?) scrolling (this might be outdated, last time i tried PC based emus on TV is about the time when emus took of on the XBOX). This might sound like nothing, but is a very important aspect for retrogamers...

  30. Seagate Freeagent Theater+ HD by mrops · · Score: 1

    Yah, the name is a mouth full, UI has lots of room for improvement on the network side, however it more than serves the purpose, plays everything I have thrown at it. Its backed by my NAS on gigabit network, two of these devices on two TVs and I can stream two HD (720p) movies (of any kind) at the same time.

    Disclaimer: Usability and customization is not even close to XBMC, nonetheless functionally it does exactly what I want i.e. play any content shared on my local network.

  31. It's been flagging for a while by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    It's gotten to the point where it's hard to play video streams, because the Xbox just can't handle the bitrate. If they had CUDA they could do video decoding partially on the GPU, but since they don't they can only use the GPU for pretty visual effects (and they do.) Consequently the Xbox is on its way out as a platform for playing media. I'm going to replace mine with a Phenom II X3 720 because that's what's in my desktop system and AMD was good enough to stick with one socket for a while, meaning that I can actually upgrade my CPU (and double my cores!) So the old one will get kicked down to the task of playing video, probably on a Zotac Mini-ITX board with nVidia 6100 graphics — which is to say, it supports VDPAU and CUDA :)

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:It's been flagging for a while by marsu_k · · Score: 1

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but you need at least an 8xxx-series card for VDPAU (actually it seems Go 7700 will do as well). At any rate, 6100 is not going to cut it. Dunno about CUDA.

    2. Re:It's been flagging for a while by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Definitely does CUDA, too bad about VDPAU. VDPAU doesn't seem to work properly on my GeForce 240 GTS under Ubuntu Lucid, but who knows whose fault that is. Maybe mine.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  32. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF is a nettop?

  33. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by PouletFou · · Score: 3, Informative

    ASRock ION 330 works like a charm for £260.

  34. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just get something that supports VDPAU. Contrary to what most new system builders think, you do not need a quad core 2.5gHz CPU to play back video when you have hardware acceleration.

    I bought the cheapest CPU/Mobo bundle with gigabit ethernet at Newegg. It was a 1.8gHz Celeron with 1GB of RAM. Everything accelerated with a GT220.

    I've played a blueray rip with 0 studdering. The only time I get studdering is when SABnzbd is finishing unrarring a file. As long as you are using it for JUST an HTPC you should be fine. It's not completely fanless, but I can't hear it behind from 12' away.

    Asus Revo 1600s are on sale for $140-160 refurbed and should work great.

  35. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can confirm this. My HTPC is built around a Zotac ION board in a Mini-Box M350 enclosure. XBMC on Linux does a great job of playing back anything up to 1080p.

    As a bonus, the system draws 18-28W depending on load, so I don't mind leaving it running continuously while it downloads content.

  36. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by greed · · Score: 1

    They're great. I've got one running XBMC Live.

    One of the few problems I have is, suspend/hibernate don't work right. The usual finger-pointing is to the binary nVidia drivers.

    But with the binary drivers, CPU load for playing back Blu-Ray ".m4ts" stream files is less than 10%--the GPU is doing all the heavy lifting. Anything DVD resolution is background noise. (I got the dual-core ION; that's probably overkill.)

    If you're really into Linux and PXE boot servers, you can run them without any disk drives at all. Just the Zotac ION board, some RAM, power supply, and Ethernet. Plug in HDMI and digital audio and off you go.

    (I don't have audio over HDMI working, but I don't really care, because my receiver can't handle 1080p so the HDMI has to go right to the TV and the audio to the receiver anyway....)

  37. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here you go, from mini-box.com:

    2x2GB DDR2 Memory: $100.00
    160GB 2.5" SATA HDD: $62.00
    Intel ZOTAC MB Atom N330 ION ITX-A-U with 90W adapter: $189.00
    M350 Universal Mini-ITX enclosure: $39.95
    Total: $390.95

    The whole package is smaller than Stephen King's latest book and sits behind a closed door in the unit that supports by television.

    For video storage I use a 2TB USB drive.

  38. xbox 4 lyfe, yo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Posting as AC, considering...

    Got a v1.0 black xbox (c. 2001) and a v1.4 green Halo xbox (c. 2004). Both have 120GB HDDs, Xenium ICE modchips, and are loaded with old games - Atari, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Playstation, you name it. I've played through everything from The Legend of Zelda (NES) to Final Fantasy VII (PSX) and many in between! And of course, they still play xbox games too.

    Besides the retro gaming potential (yes you can play NBA Jam with four players), they also stream TV shows and movies across the network w/o having to unpack any multi-part compression.

    Both xboxii are still running fine after years of abuse, including 6 years getting kicked around in college, and I have absolutely no intention of giving them up!

    Not normally such a MSFT fan, but the XBOX was quite possibly the best thing Microsoft has ever done or will ever do.

  39. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by mlk · · Score: 1

    Take the internals of a Netbook, throw away the battery and the screen. Add a HMDI port.

    Cheap computer to throw under the tell and stream content.

    --
    Wow, I should not post when knackered.
  40. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by b0bby · · Score: 2, Informative

    CAn any nettops run media PC stuff reasonably well?

    Look for the Acer Revo - $200 for the single core Atom version, ION chipset, does full HD easily, small, quiet, HDMI out... I have the dual core version which was $330, but that also comes with twice the RAM, a wireless keyboard & mouse, & Windows 7. There are a lot of places with information on XBMC & Windows MC setups, search for Revo HTPC. I really like mine, it's recording OTA HD & works great.

  41. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF is a tell?

  42. Apple-TV by anethema · · Score: 4, Informative

    I find Apple-TV to be a wicked XBMC platform.

    By itself the Apple-TV is pretty junky. You can buy stuff from iTunes store or rent etc, and stream your iTunes stuff over to it for easy playing, but overall not worth the money.

    BUT, i threw a Broadcom Crystal HD (http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Broadcom_Crystal_HD for some info) in it (replacing the wifi card which I did not need) and put XBMC on there and it is fantastic. Will play 1080p HD no problem, and damn near any format used in online downloading without a hitch.

    This way, the features that weren't so compelling on an Apple-TV before are now great perks to my XBMC install. I can instantly rent a movie in HD if my download doesn't complete or the file ends up corrupt. If I can't find a move online, I usually can on iTunes. They are fairly complementary.

    All in a tiny little box 7x7x1.

    Only real disadvantage I've run into is the limited remote.

    --


    It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    1. Re:Apple-TV by Strider- · · Score: 1

      Another vote for this solution.

      Another benefit is that the aTV is an incredibly quiet package. While it does contain a fan, I have never actually heard it run.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    2. Re:Apple-TV by HBI · · Score: 1

      Might I suggest a Bluetooth keyboard? I know it doesn't have it internally, but an external receiver would be nice, if it could be made to work.

      I do the same thing you are, but on a Mini. I run XBMC and control it with a Logitech DiNovo mini. It's flawless and the battery life rocks. The Mini had Bluetooth built in. The DiNovo came with an external BT receiver (which I do not use) which has provided drivers only for Windows, but some hacking might be possible.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    3. Re:Apple-TV by anethema · · Score: 1

      Yeah unfortunatly the Apple-TV OS (some modified Panther or somethin) is a bit harder to get external receivers going but it may be possible. Might have to put linux on it.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
  43. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Zotac boards look promising and I have made the mistake of buying 3-4 of them. However, when you need to deal with support it is impossible. You can only reach someone on the phone during extremely limited hours. They took 2 months to RMA a mobo and during the process they tried to give me a mobo replacement that was an "upgrade" vs my original. However the "upgrade" didn't have RAID, went from ION to intel graphics, and 1 memory channel of a slower speed. I couldn't believe they actually tried that crap.

    I know those mini itx boards are very tempting, but go for the more reliable solution with a solid atx or micro atx board from a proper manufacturer. You'll save yourself the headache in the future

  44. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by sglewis100 · · Score: 1

    I have an Acer Aspire Revo that is about $199 at Newegg, Bestbuy or Amazon, single core Atom, nVidia chipset. Came with XP Home, I think - never booted the hard drive. HDMI out w/ audio, I have an 8gb USB stick I boot Linux/XBMC off of, and 1080p is no problem. Haven't bothered reformatting the 160gb hard drive yet - I stream (mostly 720p) video over 802.11n with no stutter. Wired would be better for 1080p, I get some stutters sometimes with anything 9gb or higher...

  45. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

    Modern nVidia and ATI integrated graphics found in nettops are more powerful than the high end chip that powers the XBOX. They also offer hardware accelerated decoding to make up for the deficient CPUs they use (which are also more powerful than the stripped P3 in the XBOX).

  46. And nothing of value was lost by kriston · · Score: 0, Troll

    And nothing of value was lost.
    The daunting task of actually getting XBMC onto an Xbox when it won't even get you HD is supremely disappointing. A cheap mini-ITX system for a few dollars more is easy and HD.

    --

    Kriston

    1. Re:And nothing of value was lost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, my XBOX w/XBMC runs 720p and optical audio out just fine...

    2. Re:And nothing of value was lost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A few dollars more than $40? I'd like to see that.

  47. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Pvt_Ryan · · Score: 1

    Ideally I'd like a case I can stick a 2TB hdd in. Trying to get rid of cables (and by extension external disks)

  48. Re:the irony of this (this isn't irony) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is kind of funny how history made this package evolve. The XBMC, which abreviates "XBOX Media Center", was originally developed for the XBOX. And now, it supports different platforms and operating systems but not the XBOX any longer. If you don't know its history, you'd find it a joke what XBMC stands for.

    Like raaaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day...

    Like making a post on slashdot about irony that contains no irony whatsooooooever

    Like a black fly in your chardonnay

    Who would have thought, it figures?

  49. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

    The cheapest Zotac ION over here goes for $100. Ones that come with a DC power supply start at $140. $25 for memory, $20 for an IR receiver, $40 for a cheap case, and $40 for a hard drive. If you want cheaper, you can run diskless, booting off the big server actually housing your content, you can build your own IR receiver to interface with the serial port or audio line in, and you can omit the case, just using a piece of plywood to mount the board directly to the VESA mounts on your TV.

  50. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by metrometro · · Score: 1

    I shopped this recently, and the answer I came up with was... almost. The form factor, outputs and prices are good, the hardware was a little underpowered to stream HD. I decided to wait 6 months or so till there was a rock solid option in the $300 range.

  51. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

    Telly. Television.

  52. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by warrior389 · · Score: 1

    I got an Acer Aspire Revo with the single core from best buy for $199. It runs windows 7 and boxee just fine. 1080p h.264 videos are flawless over hdmi. I also like the boxee remote control for the iPhone.

  53. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by eln · · Score: 1

    It's something you do, like touching your nose or scratching your head, while playing poker that lets other people know what kind of hand you have and whether or not you're bluffing. Please try to keep up.

  54. So? by balbus000 · · Score: 1

    I still have an X-Box with XBMC from 2003 which works fine. I keep it at my girlfriend's house however, since I have new and shinier toys at mine.

    Let the developers focus on the new stuff.

  55. Next step, next gen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What they really need to do, is get 'official support' from Microsoft, so I we can get XBMC working on the 360.
    The 360's default media player is GARBAGE. Almost no support for anything other than avi or mp4, and no support for subtitles or alternative streams, combined with a terrible interface for managing what limited options DO exist, I dream of the day I can play mkv or similar on the 360. Sadly, it's just a dream...

    1. Re:Next step, next gen by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Why in the world would they support the PS3 and 360 when both platforms are closed and would require hacking? A better system for equal or less cash can be had by buying an ION nettop. No hoops and it works just as well with no fears that a firmware "upgrade" will trash their hard work. the team doesn't seem interested AT ALL in closed systems and I don't blame them. Why encourage the sales of such systems?

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    2. Re:Next step, next gen by TouchAndGo · · Score: 1

      And I'm sure this better system for less cash will also play 360 or ps3 games, right? No? Then that's why people would want them to support those systems, because they already own them.

    3. Re:Next step, next gen by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      What part of closed and requires hacking did you miss? Do you think either of those platforms will continue to support games after you've hacked them? They aren't supporting closed proprietary platforms, they do not wish to support that model. If you've bought those platforms and now wish they had the features that XBMC offers for media playback perhaps you should have considered this before purchase?

      However it's Open Source code so feel free to port it yourself rather than bitch because they aren't following YOUR selfish wishes.

      I own a Wii, 360, and a PS3. It has never once crossed my mind that these guys were somehow failing me because they didn't support some specific piece of hardware. They support multiple OS on flexible hardware now, what's not to like?

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    4. Re:Next step, next gen by Geise · · Score: 1

      Do you think either of those platforms will continue to support games after you've hacked them?

      The 360 was hacked shortly after release and the PS3's hypervisor has been completely dumped. The Wii has been hacked practically since day one. The fact that all three consoles are still supporting games kinda makes you look like a dumbass, doesn't it?

    5. Re:Next step, next gen by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Umm no, the DVD drive firmware on the 360 was hacked to play burned games - you aren't running 3rd party code on it and if you are you aren't connecting to their online game service. You know how many 360 boxes have been banned? Plenty but go ahead and play those games standalone and miss out on downloaded content. Kripes sneeze wrong around a 360 and it RROD, why would you want to risk losing warranty support? Been there, done that - no thanks.

      Likewise the PS3 expects their up to date firmware on it as well. Yes there's been some hacks on their hypervisor (thank you Geohot) but so far as I know you aren't going to be running that stuff and connecting to Sony's online services (oh wait, through a proxy hack?! geez) - just like the 360 issues. By all means play standalone and miss out on much of the reason why these platforms are fun for the sake of running 3rd party code. Hey maybe you can sneak by for awhile and then get caught up in a massive ban - isn't that fun? Sorry, not willing to play whack-a-mole with these consoles hoping not to get banned.

      Wake me when the Wii does 1080P, my Wii is hacked - big deal.

      No matter - the XBMC team has made their position clear. They do not wish to assist closed proprietary platforms by creating code for them. Cry all you want but those guys aren't going to support it and I see their point. ION systems go for as little as $170 if you catch them on sale, if that's too much for you then stick to free XBOX and a tube TV.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  56. Re:the irony of this (this isn't irony) by Z8 · · Score: 1

    No, it is ironic, and a decent example of it. See situational irony.

  57. OUCH Hurting the POOR in us all. by lordmage · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow. Just hurt us people who rely on CHaOS (Cheap Array of Obsolete Systems). The Xbox was a 39.99 dollar media center which played all DVD's and some good games on the TV and it was networked into the File servers. It is GREAT and XBMC is great too... and now.... wow.

    Come on, Whats the point of XBMC if you dont have it on an Xbox. Btw, just crack the darn 360 and put it there too... or the ps3 or.. Wii... for gosh sakes!

    --
    I can program myself out of a Hello World Contest!!
    1. Re:OUCH Hurting the POOR in us all. by TouchAndGo · · Score: 1

      Exactly. They're dropping support for the only thing they're known for, and happily moving forward into obscurity apparently.

  58. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Vancorps · · Score: 1

    Careful, the Atom N230 with Ion can play 1080p video but it chokes on most of the HD audio stuff. For that you need to go with the N330 dual core Atom. I play bluray movies with that and it works wonderfully. Course I only have one disc because it was on sale so for the most part its just for watching movies I've already ripped.

  59. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by jvj24601 · · Score: 1

    The Aspire Revo 1600 does indeed work great. I didn't even have to muck around with Windows XP (not even uninstalling it). I used Wubi to install Ubuntu 9.11, added the xbmc repository, spent a few minutes on Google to find some configuration tweaks, and it displays 1080p video perfectly. Since I already have an old computer as a server, the Revo's gigabit ethernet means that I don't care about local disk space.

  60. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ECS-3L (EliteGroup) I got it for 239USD without RAM, and HDD. It accepts a 3.5" sata2 drive, and has vga/dvi/hdmi and Gigabit Ethernet. Intel ATOM/NvidiaION make it almost capable of running some newer games (with 667 ram) though I suspect it would go alot better with 800mhz RAM. There are also Internal mini-PCIe slots, and wifi antennae, but I couldn't get that to work with an intel wifi card (3945).

    I use it on my 50" plasma to watch movies in 1080p all the time.

  61. waiting for a suitable replacement by Foresto · · Score: 1

    I'll be ready to retire my xbox as soon as I find a suitable, affordable replacement. I'm hoping for a diskless nettop with nVidia VDPAU Feature Set C to arrive some time this year. I imagine that ought to run the latest greatest XBMC nicely. Until then, I think I'll continue hobbling along with this poor old nearly-abandoned xbox.

  62. Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    Why would you do this? A complete ready to roll ASROCK 330 complete with memory and CPU can be bought for $350 or so http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856158009&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Barebone+Systems-_-ASRock-_-56158009 Add a MCE remote with IRDA receiver or a BT dongle and a PS3 remote and it's DONE.

    With that you can play 1080P video perfectly using VDPAU on Linux - I do this regularly. It draws little power, has HDMI output including 5.1 surround via the HDMI, and is TINY. I swapped out an overclocked C2D for this tiny thing and couldn't be happier.

    Seriously, there's no sense in building a beast when these little ION powered rigs do it all just fine. the ASROCK is only just one of several cheap ION machines out there too but it's the one I'm most familiar with. Heck I may be buying more to play video on additional TVs here pretty soon and I think there's even a LiveCD just for it.

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    1. Re:Why wait? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Why would you do this? A complete ready to roll ASROCK 330 complete with memory and CPU can be bought for $350 or so

      Right now for $200 I could buy a six-core CPU for my system, $59 gets me a board with onboard video, that leaves $90 for RAM and PSU... and I have a 20+4 pin PSU lying around. I have some various enclosures to use, I have in mind a classic aluminum unit that has a 1960s appearance. I will put root on flash, which I have also. So in my case, even without waiting I could get an upgrade for my system and a dramatically more powerful system to go behind my TV. It can sleep when I'm not using it so power consumption is not a major issue. And if I just wait a few months I'll be able to do it fifty to a hundred bucks cheaper. The Xbox is more or less doing the job for now. I can fill the gap by transcoding.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      If you read down further you'll find guys building ATOM based system for far less than the assembled ASROCK, I think some of the ZOTAC systems were $200 or so. One thing you really want is onboard NVIDIA graphics for VDPAU. Not just because of the video acceleration but because it can do 5.1 audio via the HDMI cable. Damned handy if you have an HDMI switching receiver as I do - one cable to rule them all!

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    3. Re:Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Here try this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157194&cm_re=ion-_-13-157-194-_-Product

      $134 plus the various parts you have laying around and maybe a couple of cheap sticks of RAM.

      Or try this one with a PSU included -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500027&cm_re=ion-_-13-500-027-_-Product 90watts :-) That's what the PSU is rated for, you won't use but maybe half that.

      Just peruse NewEgg and you'll see how cheaply this can be done. Hell, I'm tempted to build a second one myself! http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&srchInDesc=atom&Description=ion&page=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=100

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    4. Re:Why wait? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      One thing you really want is onboard NVIDIA graphics for VDPAU. Not just because of the video acceleration but because it can do 5.1 audio via the HDMI cable. Damned handy if you have an HDMI switching receiver as I do - one cable to rule them all!

      My HDMI switch is in my TV, which has four or five HDMI inputs. I'd like HDMI out, and may spend more to get a motherboard that has it. But dual-core atom is still expensive and single-core is too slow for anything other than watching videos. If I want to even have a good web surfing experience with flash etc I need more than a single-core Atom. This machine is intended to last me years, like my Xbox did, without replacement. Why would I want to use an Atom that is already outdated by dual-core Atoms, which are price-comparable with just using my Phenom II X3 720?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      You seem wedded to the idea of purchasing something else so I'll stop trying to show you alternatives. Can you surf the web on your XBOX?

      You've already made up your mind so go for it, I and others will continue to enjoy ourselves on our platforms. I was just trying to show you that you need not spend so much in power or hardware to get XBMC running on something other than an XBOX but then your requirements seem to be pretty fluid.

      You'll find lots of folks running all sorts of hardware on the XBMC forums and I'm sure can find someone to point you to a good AMD motherboard...

      $135 for a dual core ATOM ION is hardly "expensive". (shrug)

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    6. Re:Why wait? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You seem wedded to the idea of purchasing something else so I'll stop trying to show you alternatives. Can you surf the web on your XBOX?

      Of course, it can run Debian. I do it sometimes but it's pretty slow, an atom kicks its ass there, aside from flash, unless you run windows, etc etc. On the plus side, the Xbox will do 1080i.

      You've already made up your mind so go for it, I and others will continue to enjoy ourselves on our platforms.

      I just want more power than an Atom can give me. I own a Celery netbook, an Atom netbook, and an Athlon L110 netbook, so I have some idea of what's available. It's also an excellent excuse to upgrade my desktop, which I would like to be more powerful for the purpose of faster video encoding.

      I was just trying to show you that you need not spend so much in power or hardware to get XBMC running on something other than an XBOX but then your requirements seem to be pretty fluid.

      I've run XBMC on all my netbooks, so I know that's true. I've even run it under both Windows and Linux on the two more powerful units. I seldom use it on my desktop system, but wow, it's a whole different experience in fluidity. You'd imagine there would be a pretty big difference, though, between a Coppermine Celery 733 with NV2A and 64MB and a Phenom II X3 720 with a GTS 240 and 4GB.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Yeah and there would be a diff between the Celeron and the ATOM dual core as well since it's 2core and hyperhthreaded. I compile XBMC pretty regularly on my ATOM so I know it's not exactly a barn burner but for what I bought it for it kicks ass and I traded up from a C2D running 3ghz to this. What I lost in compile times and sheer power I got got in power savings, cost savings (had I not built the other box) and space savings.

      By fluid I meant ever changing not that you wanted smooth operation. ;-) I get smooth operation on my ASROCK but then I'm not looking to use it for anything more than just media and some playing with Linux - it does have a full Ubuntu install on it. what skin you use can make a huge difference, some are pretty crazy demanding. I have run a torrent client, DC server, SSH obviously, VNC of various flavors, but not much more on it so my box stays happy, I also overclocked it to speed compile times if nothing else. It's hooked to my TV full-time so I'm not looking to go crazy with it. offloading things from my desktop to it or my NAS is certainly of interest though.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    8. Re:Why wait? by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      "Why would you do this? "

      I'll give you ten reasons:
      1. ASRock looks like a PC and IMHO won't look as good as the Xbox does in the living room
      2. Xbox with XBMC = $50 vs $350+ for ASRock
      3. XBMC on Xbox has huge community for help and support spanning many years
      4. Controllers and other devices are very cheap for the Xbox
      5. Hundreds of games are natively supported
      6. Menus and functions are all easily navigated using controller or remote
      7. It's quiet
      8. almost instant boot-time
      9. proprietary hardware makes it easier to support
      10. lack of software incompatibilities makes it easier to support

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    9. Re:Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      1) ASRock looks like a Wii. Is FAR smaller than the original XBOX, uses less power, and is quieter. You've not ever seen one have you? It's actually a little smaller than a Wii.
      2) Original XBOX is ancient! You can build something for FAR less than the ASRock if you're really so cheap. There was a single core ATOM ION system (not just a board) on sale the other day for less than $170 but that's ended. Guess what platform is now considered refrence for XBMC - ION.
      3) That same community is now supporting XBMC on other OS and has been for over 2+ years now. Wake up and get with the program, you've apparently been under a rock.
      4) You can use your old XBOX controllers if you want including the remote. 360 stuff ALSO works. Apparently you've not kept up here either.
      5) Ditto if you run emulators. If that's just too much for you by all means keep your old XBOX too.
      6) Umm, it's the SAME software! I don't use a mouse or keyboard to navigate menus either. Seriously? LOL!
      7) ASRock is quieter. The fan on an ASRock or other ATOM powered box is SMALLER and quieter than the old XBOX fan. I know because I have BOTH.
      8) I could sleep mine but I choose to leave it running to do other things for my network - it uses under 30watts under 100% load. That's one of the nice things about PC hardware, it can do more for you... Guys have their boot times on stripped OS down pretty low from cold boot but no not quite to what an old XBOX can do - while those still boot.
      9) Proprietary hardware means you have to use a pirated compiler to compile the code in violation of the license! Oh wait you probably just download binaries from others right?
      10) Yes, it's so much easier to support that the team who's currently working on the software has DROPPED it. Wow...
      11) XBMC on real hardware supports HD at 1080P.

      Seriously, you don't run XBMC on anything do you? If you did you wouldn't have had to stretch so hard there and might maybe have had more clue. Spend some time on the XBMC forums learning about this stuff and perhaps the light will dawn.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    10. Re:Why wait? by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      I haven't had TV service in 3 years, all media has been through the XBMC and I've never had a problem with downloaded content not working. 1080p isn't a popular downloaded format, you search for any video content and 480i or similar DVD quality will be easier to find than 1080p. Unless there's a huge jump in cheap bandwidth 1080p will continue to be unpopular, especially with Comcast and Earthlink announcing monthly caps. Who'd want to waste 5gb on 1080p when 700mb 480i DivX suffices?

      Like I said support is huge, you start putting the software on dozens of different kinds of hardware and OSes and you're going to have support problems. What happens when you post on a forum "1080p is jumpy"? Now they have to look at the cpu and video card and OS and other software and all these other potential problems, and while people might help you today with your dual core 1.6ghz atom in 5 years time they'll laugh at you and say your PC isn't fast enough and to upgrade.

      I agree with one thing you said: "If that's just too much for you by all means keep your old XBOX too." I can give my parents a Xbox with XBMC on it and not worry about support because I know there's no problems with it, can you say the same about your $350 personal computer? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

      Fragmenting the XBMC is the same mistake Android made: sure the OS is free, but the software that runs on your Android might not run on mine and many have speculated this fragmentation will destroy Android. Windows Mobile did the the same thing for many years and developers had to publish long lists of supported and unsupported Windows Mobile smartphones. That's one of the reasons the iPhone is so successful: every app works on every iPhone.

      This will not end well for XBMC, this will push people off Xboxes and on to Boxee and other competitors because why bother with XBMC when you're already running a dual core PC? Might as well upgrade to Boxee or MythTV.

      I don't mind the developers making a XBMC2 for modern devices, but to end support for the highly successful XBMC and close the forums and start removing things from the wiki is suicide and I can't believe they don't see that. What would happen if Sony or Microsoft announced they'd no longer support the PS3 or Xbox360 and they're focusing on next gen consoles? Think anyone that read that would buy a ps3 or 360? Sony's a genius when it comes to that: while M$ ended support for the Xbox, you can still buy a brand new ps2 and new games at most retail stores and it's paid off big, with 1.8 million Playstation 2s sold in 2009. Yes, Sony sold 1.8 million 10 yr old ps2s in 2009, and brand new ps2 games are still being released in 2010. See you don't slaughter the fatted calf as soon as the next gen comes out, and the fact that XBMC developers are doing so prove they don't care about their community and will drop you whenever it's convenient for them.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    11. Re:Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Most of my HD content is BD rips or video I pull from my Tivo HD. I can find 720P video of most any TV show just as easily as I can SD stuff from the sites I use. Generally though I prefer SD for TV shows just due to volume. But for movies? HD all the way!

      So far the "support problems" seem to be handled just fine. They have a reference platform - it's ION. Of course other platforms are supported and there's help to be found on those too. Heck this will run on an AppleTV if you want. In 5years if folks want to laugh at my hardware that's fine - by then something better and cheaper will likely be around. Right now they aren't pushing the edge of the ATOM processor, in fact there's even a Google SOC ongoing to get the software running on a BeagleBoard to allow embedded use. Perhaps if Microsoft had documented the video hardware for acceleration on the XBOX it would have more life but they didn't and they won't. Bye Bye undocumented proprietary platform.

      You can give someone an ION system just like you could an old XBOX. Slap a LiveCD in it or a USB stick and it's good to go. Heck it's probably even easier to do since there's no hacking involved! I HAVE given away XBOX, if the ION platforms I keep seeing on sale strike my fancy I'll probably build a second one for myself and yeah give one for a gift - I see no issues doing that. Install the software correctly ala the XBOX and there's no reason to muck with it unless you want more features or a bug fix.

      As for Boxee - it's an XBMC fork. In fact Boxee is a sponsor on the XBMC website! Running it is no different than running XBMC - go for it. Myth? Good luck. If you can get that running half as easily as XBMC my hat is off to you and I wish I could do the same. I'd LOVE to have a Myth back-end running tied to my XBMC box but every attempt has been nothing but frustration. Windows Media Center is way easier by comparison. If someone is that technical and wants live or recorded TV then Myth is fine - use XBMC for the front-end :-) You see this as a bad thing, I see no issues.

      See here's the thing. They are allowing and encouraging the data to be pulled from the Wiki and moved elsewhere. The SVN code branch as well. The team developing XBMC right now isn't interested in the XBOX. ONE guy has been doing XBOX development for the last 18 months! You realize that right? you would if you read the forums. What this means is that others who have had to answer questions about the XBOX no longer have to. What has happened defacto is now official - XBOX is abandoned! You make it sound like there's was some huge disturbance in the Force when in fact only one guy did primary development and he can continue. If all of these legions of people are SO upset then why the fuck haven't they been actively helping? Where are their code patches? If this community wedded to ancient hardware is so big and so strong then they will move to the new site and continue on. The XBMC team is assisting in getting the SVN moved, the forum is going to be mirrored, and the Wiki too. What's the big issue? If you're right things will continue, if you aren't then nothing of value was lost. I see no suicide, the XBOX platform is end of life after a long slow death - pull the plug. It will limp along for a bit but I don't see it outlasting the new XBMC...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    12. Re:Why wait? by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      "If all of these legions of people are SO upset then why the fuck haven't they been actively helping? Where are their code patches?"

      You think all XBMC users should be programmers? That's the wrong approach, you need the soccer mom's, the regular people using these devices, not just hackers and geeks, otherwise you'll never get support for cheap set-top devices or people interested in developing it. You tell soccer mom "hey all your movies and tv shows free for just $50 one time" and they'll listen, but you tell them $350 and they'll pass.

      "You realize that right? you would if you read the forums. "

      Again you fail to see the purpose of XBMC. The genius of the XBMC is that you don't have to live your life on a forum to keep it going. Think Soccer Mom Sally wants to visit yet another forum weekly so she can watch TV? Hell no, who does? XBMC was exceedingly simplicity, plug in, turn on, watch streaming videos over network.

      By telling people $50 XBMC is dead, buy something else (they never did give examples of successors) they're fragmenting the community and that's suicide. Like Sony with the PS2 you don't kill your community, you move on and offer them something else but you don't tell them "stop buying/using our product, find something else". If they had done some statistics to see how many people were running on a Xbox vs other devices I'm sure they'd see the Xbox is the most popular device.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    13. Re:Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      You want all soccer moms to be hardware hackers? There - fixed that for you.

      Ya' the ASRock is $350. Other ION systems go for as low as $170 on sale. Newsflash, the $50 XBOX still requires network infrastructure storage to support storing all those movies. Soccer mom ain't building THAT so stop the silly strawman argument that "everyone" can run this on old hardware. I've given XBMC XBOX as gifts, I know what they require to support. Suzie soccer mom doesn't want a box that big, that loud, or that ugly either. You want to give Suzie a box she'll use akin to the old XBOX give her a repurposed AppleTV. It will be quieter, live longer, look better, and OBTW output higher quality video. Level of hacking required is right up there with the old XBOX too.

      *I* fail to see the purpose of XBMC? lol! YOU fail to understand that you can still load the old XBMC code on old XBOX and are no worse off. If it requires so little work to keep going no one will ever know. Suzie ain't updating her old XBOX that's for sure! The boxes I gave away 3 years ago are still running fine - on 3+ year old code. Any video you're streaming is coming from back end architecture that Suzie sure didn't setup either. Strawman FAIL.

      Where did the XBMC guys tell anyone to stop using their product? The reference platform for XBMC is ION. Examples of this abound if you had bothered to read and look. NewEgg sells the Acer Aspire right now for $200, go get it or look for a used AppleTV. ATV run as low as $100.

      The team dropped support for the old XBOX hardware EIGHTEEN MONTHS ago! You are apparently just now waking up to this? They made it official and provided means to move the source and support information elsewhere, what more do you want? The team producing the code is no longer interested in supporting ancient hardware. I ask you where *your* patches are and you whine that you shouldn't have to program? That you shouldn't have to follow the forums? What, besides whining, do you contribute exactly? In your words - they have "moved on" and they offer a pretty stunning product if you run reasonable hardware. Nowhere did they tell anyone to stop using their product and considering they aren't being paid to develop it they could just as easily do that too. The source is free, I download it daily. By all means pick up the torch and get out of the backseat if you want to drive so badly.

      Here, maybe this will help you -> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/interview-cory-fields-xbmc

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    14. Re:Why wait? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      BTW right off the XBMC front page -> http://xbmc.org/theuni/2010/05/04/zotac-shows-off-with-xbmc/

      That a good enough suggested replacement? I am pretty sure you can convince most anyone that's better looking on their stereo stand than an old XBOX. Note that it can be bolted to the back of your flat panel TV to really hide it if you want....

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  63. Oh bullshit.... by BLKMGK · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Fork over a couple hundred bucks and move up from a single core P3 for kripes sake! Why in this world would you want to hold back development of a damned good HTPC software in order to satisfy an ever smaller number of slow proprietary machines? Would you be happier if they just dropped XBOX out of the name entirely and called it something else? These guys don't want to have to sweat the low end hardware anymore and are trying to move forward - as someone who has the newer hardware I commend them! These guys aren't just piling on all sorts of CPU intensive stuff expecting some monster CPU to run it but hamstringing them to sweat performance on a single core P3 class CPU with no memory that has to be hacked just to install and compiled by a pirated compiler is just silly.

    Yes, I still have an XBOX hacked to run older XBMC and that build is like 2 years old - still runs as well now as when it was installed so who cares? There's now folks just working on the XBOX version and that's great but there's no way it's fair to ask the current team who has their sights set on bigger things to keep looking backwards to support the old. Better to drop support than support it poorly and hear the bitching when something breaks.

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    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  64. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    Build a NAS and stream from the network. Even 2TB isn't going to last really long and you don't want to be ripping media on an ATOM CPU anyway - compressing would take forever. I use unRAID and the servers sit on Gig ethernet, works a charm. I have used maybe 20% of the 320Gigs on my ASROCK and that's running SVN builds with other software too...

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    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  65. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    Underpowered? Stream from where? I playback 1080P BD rips on a regular basis off a NAS with zero issues on a dual core ATOM. The CPU never goes above 10% - VDPAU and the NVIDIA graphics do ALL the heavy lifting. I could run a single core and do just as well. You trying to do this on Windows or something? O_o

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    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  66. There's an XBMC iPhone remote too! by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    I might have paid a buck or two for it tops but it works great! Like you are seeing 1080P is just fine and I'm on only a slightly better box with Linux - ASROCK 330. $199 is a damned good price, might have to be my second machine here soon :-)

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    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  67. thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without a doubt buying an xbox was the best 150 euros i ever spent. Thanks to the xbmc people. I guess it'll go down in the history books as one of the top open source projects in history...

  68. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by jubei · · Score: 1

    I also have the AspireRevo 1600.

    It generally works great with XBMC, but if you are going to play a lot of 1080p content, you might be better off getting a dual-core atom. 1080p videos play fine, but there can be some stuttering if you have background processes running (like sabnzbd), or if you need to do any audio processing (like software mixing).

    Since the AR1600 comes with windows XP, I first tried XBMC for Windows, but it didn't have hardware accelerated playback, even with the latest nVidia drivers. I installed an ion-optimized version of the XMBC live cd (based on Ubuntu Linux) produced by XBMCFreak.

    The AR1600 also doesn't have any digital audio outputs, other than HDMI. This means that if you want surround sound and your receiver doesn't support hdmi audio, your tv needs to do digital audio pass-through.

  69. Um what? by mrmeval · · Score: 1

    Embrace extend extinguish?

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    I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
  70. xbmx, pandora by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of putting an opensource handheld game console on the market that nobody will buy, why isn't there a project to make an opensource media device that plays everything with XBMC and is as convinient and slick(the interface not the xbox) as Xbox running XBMC?

  71. The biggest shame about all this is Sony. by AbRASiON · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many of us commenting here love(d) our Xbox's - it was a true monster at playing video, it played _everything_
    Why oh why did Sony block access to the accelerated video features on the PS3 under linux? XBMC would've been PERFECT on the PS3.
    Wifi, gigabit, 1080p output, USB ports, internal HDD :/ such a huge shame.

  72. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by DedTV · · Score: 1

    Yep. I have a couple of these running XBMC Live off a USB stick.

    Mostly they're used in the living room and the family room to play my DVD collection which I ripped to ISOs on a 12TB Windows Home Server machine. I have a few 1080p .ts vids that won't play well on it but it handles my Music Video collection; which are all 1080p x264 MKVs with around a 10MB/s bitrate; without a problem.
    The cheaper Revo 230 can easily handle anything an old Xbox could and a lot more. The one I bought as a test when I was setting up my system is now an emulator machine and it plays many emulated games that the Xbox would choke on beautifully.

  73. Re:Can a nettop that can run media centre software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shit.