Man Emails AT&T's CEO, Gets Threatened With C&D Order

An anonymous reader writes "After its recent bait and switch, AT&T went ahead and threatened someone emailing the company CEO about customer service concerns, namely with a query about tethering and eligibility rates. The email author also put up a voicemail recording of the company's response and how he managed to contact the CEO in the first place — through The Consumerist." As Engadget notes (as does the complaining customer's updated page), AT&T did at least offer an apology for the threat of legal action, which the company says was unauthorized.

Comments

Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

is like trying to decide whether you'd prefer to have cancer or AIDS.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Beelzebud]

Or if you live in an area like me, it's Comcast cable, or nothing else. There is no choice.

It always annoys me to no end when I have to call their dismal tech support line, and am greeted with "Thank you for choosing Comcast!"....

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

So which is it, cancer or AIDS?

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[davester666]

Well, you did choose Comcast over watching the paint on your walls dry. Now doesn't that make you feel better?

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Foobar of Borg]

yes

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[NicknamesAreStupid]

Completely untrue and an insult to medicine. It is actually like choosing to live under Hilter or Stalin.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[peragrin]

I don't know I would rather watch paint dry and grass grow rather than watch idol, or dancing with egos.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[drachenstern]

I would choose Stalin. I hear he was a froody dood.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[drachenstern]

No, you die!

I choose cancer...

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

I choose cancerAIDS

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

... but you don't need comcast to see either of those, they waste perfectly good over-the-air bandwidth on that.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[moxley]

Honestly,

Comcast is better than most in the US, IMO.

I find Comcast's internet offerings to be the best option in all the areas I've lived where Comcast operates, far faster and more reliable than Time Warner or Adelphia. I download a lot of binaries and torrents and never had a problem - and I have 22/8 to the home, and 50/10 for my office - both of which I get (and then some) consistently in real world testing...The other services I have used and seen didn't have those speeds, and weren't as reliable.

I dislike some of Comcast's politics in the past, their support of "Partnership for a Drug-Free America," etc, as well as the cost of their TV services and some of the unclear undefined policies they used to have - but they have changed those.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[swb]

Is Comcast that bad?

I recently switched and have been happy. I got 12/2 business class with 5 static IPs for $69/month, free installation and it was all up and working within FOUR DAYS OF ORDERING.

Performance has been great, and it beats the shit out of the 1.5 I was stuck with on DSL forever.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Xyrus]

Looks like the old slogan is still true: "AT&T. We don't care. We don't have to."

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[LordNimon]

So in other words, you had a choice between DSL or Comcast? Not that the GP was talking about how much Comcast sucks when you don't have a choice.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Cylix]

I remember quite clearly that congress said the FTC cannot regulate cable companies because consumers have a choice.

So, clearly you not correct and you have a choice!

Congress told me so :P

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[erroneus]

It's comments like the one above that convinces me that Comcast is doing more than just port blocking to the packets flowing through their network. Instead of the expected complaints, they inserted a commercial advertisement!

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

So AIDS it is, then!

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, guess you've never heard of Satellite for your TV, and DSL for your internet?

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[flappinbooger]

yeah, I wonder how long this "moxley" person has worked for comcast.

I've HAD comcast. I had it for about 2.5 years, but don't now (it's not here but it's all around, lurking, stalking, to the north, south east and west. Waiting, to pounce, and buy out mediacom cable who I have now.

I even dealt with them a number of times because I moved like 4 times in that 2.5 years and moved the service as well. When it worked I guess it was fine, and generally it actually did work. There were a few hassles with the moving instances, as you would imagine.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[dangitman]

Or if you live in an area like me, it's Comcast cable, or nothing else. There is no choice.

Not true. There's always suicide.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Satellite doesn't work too good with that big tree in the neighbor's yard to the south of me, and I'm too far from a DSLAM to get any DSL.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Comcast business service is a good deal, IMHO. It's not much more expensive than residential service, and is free of restrictions on running servers and such.

Also, something that many people don't realize is that the RIAA and other lawsuit-happy organizations are less likely to go after an IP in a given provider's business-class block. They're looking to catch the slowest gazelle in the herd, and businesses tend to have better access to lawyers.

I'm not sure I've ever heard of a business-class user being sued for torrenting, actually. Anyone know differently?

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Beelzebud]

No DSL in the town I live in. Hence, no choice.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[antdude]

Not in my city. See, you order business package so of course you get better services.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Achromatic1978]

22/8 to the home, and 50/10 for my office

22/8? Our service only offers 22/5 or 50/10....?

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Achromatic1978]

Well, yay for unadvertised upgrades... 22/8... :D

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

You must have an alternative. Here in New Hampshire, there is no real competition. Verizon sold out to FairPoint, which theoretically provides comparable service. In reality, though, FairPoint is so completely out of their depth they can hardly even get monthly bills out properly. Comcast has gotten lazy, complacent, and their formerly excellent service is now in the toilet. I spent literally 15+ hours in 10 separate phone calls over 4 months trying to straighten out my package and get something I could live with.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Molochi]

No reason to get dramatic... If you just gouge your eyes out, radio becomes an acceptable alternative.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[dangitman]

If you just gouge your eyes out, radio becomes an acceptable alternative.

Not if you only receive ClearChannel stations.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[LordKronos]

Is Comcast that bad?

Are they that bad? Well, lets see. The last time I had them, I had no internet service for 3 days. After repeated calls and a tech coming out I got no resolution. Finally I took it upon myself to install a packet sniffer, and what do you know...all of the IP traffic on my subnet was in an entirely different range than the IP I was being assigned. I picked a random IP in the valid range that appeared to not be in use and statically assigned it, and *mysteriously* every was suddenly working. I had to wade through first level tech support, convince them to let me talk to a network engineer (because he had no clue what I was talking about), and then tell that guy how to fix my internet service.

Then there is the billing department. The bill is conveniently itemized so that you can see the comcast charges, and then separate entries for the franchise fees, city taxes, universal service fees, etc. Comcast raised the bill by exactly $1 with absolutely no mention in any of my previous 6 bills about a coming change. That $1 increase was in the line item for the comcast charge. Yet when I spoke to the billing department, they were insistent that they absolutely did not raise the rate on me, and that the increased charge was solely due to city taxes. Even showing them my previous bill and pointing out exactly where the increase occurred could not budge them. They blatantly lied to me, and continued to lie even when shown evidence that they were clearly lying.

Now, compare that to WOW, where I can personally email the CTO directly about a problem, and he'll happily respond with a technical answer, and even admit fault if something went wrong on their end. Or with the install techs, who routinely show up in the first 30 minutes of the 4 hour service window, instead of the last hour (or even after the 4 hour window). And those techs are always willing to chat with me about how much better WOW treats them and makes it easier to do their job.

yeah, comcast is that bad. I kind of feel bad for the comcast guys that come around to my door every now and then trying to get me to switch back. They probably feel like I treat them as if they're carrying the plague or something, as I won't even humor them to listen to their sales pitch. I'm very polite in declining to hear their offer (I know the guys going door to door really have nothing to do with my experiences), but they always act like they've never seen someone so dissatisfied with a company before.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Beelzebud]

This has been similar to my experience dealing with them. If you do have a problem with your line, it can take weeks to get someone who knows what they're doing to look at it.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

I would have thought "within four days of ordering" was great until I moved to South Korea. Here it is usually same day unless you call after about 2-3pm, then it is first thing in the morning. That and the price of 100mbp to the house is about 1/4 of what you are paying. Even with the language barrier, I still get far better service than I did in the US.

I had to get a modem replaced here and a technician replaced it within 2 hours. In contrast, AT&T made me buy a new modem and replace it myself unless I wanted to pay them to hook it up. I dread having to go back to the US and deal with Cox, Comcast, or AT&T again.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[datapharmer]

I feel your pain. Here we are stuck between Cox and AT&T. Cox experience is about like yours. I can't get anyone out to fix problems even after I prove it is their equipment. As for AT&T, we tried to get a business contract with them at work and after 12 unreturned phone calls our secretary called the cellphone that was listed on the voicemail. The rep screamed at her about how she shouldn't bother him on his cellphone and how she should call back on his main number. Seriously? Is that how you treat a customer that wants to know where to send a 36 month contract for 20+ lines?

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[jtownatpunk.net]

"Thank you for choosing Comcast!"

Hah! That's the monopoly mentality.

Back in '99, I moved across town and wanted to keep my phone number. I called PacBell a month in advance to schedule the move. "No problem. Just let me know which day you'd like it done and we'll take care of it." So the day comes and I go to the old house. No dial tone. I toss the phone in the car and take it to the new house. No dial tone. Well, maybe the internal wiring's messed up. I was moving into a geek house so there's no telling what fantastic wiring kludges had been imposed on the wiring. I plugged my phone directly into the TNI (Telephone Network Interface) on the side of the house. Nothing. There's my number written on the socket's cover but no dice. So I whipped out my analog GTE cell phone and called Pac Bell. "Oh, I'm sorry. We ran out of lines in that area. We're going to have to dig a trench and lay some new lines. It shouldn't take more than 30 days." "Why didn't your inventory show that you were out of lines back when I scheduled the installation?" "How could we know we were out of lines until we went out to hook up your line?" Wow. So she thanked me for choosing Pacific Bell and hung up.

My GTE contract was up so I shopped around for the best plan that would cover my monthly calling. Ended up with a plan that gave me 180 peak minutes and 600 minutes of off-peak (started at 6pm back in those days) for around $30 bucks/month. And calling my family would now be a local call! Called Pac Bell and told them to cancel the installation. I was going cellular. "I'm sorry to hear that. Thank you for choosing Pacific Bell." A week or so later, I got a call apologizing for the accidental cancellation of my installation order for three phone lines. After explaining that I never had that many lines to cancel and that the cancellation of my ONE line was not a mistake, she thanked me for choosing Pacific Bell and hung up.

Haven't had a land line since.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Amouth]

never seen dancing with egos before but

http://www.watching-paint-dry.com/
is currently off line as it has dried and is now directing you to
http://www.watching-grass-grow.com/

so really not much choice there...

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[fishexe]

Is Comcast that bad?

...I had to wade through first level tech support, convince them to let me talk to a network engineer (because he had no clue what I was talking about), and then tell that guy how to fix my internet service.

That's amazing. Customer knowing better than tech company how to fix company's own tech = WIN.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[fishexe]

Or if you live in an area like me, it's Comcast cable, or nothing else. There is no choice.

Not true. There's always suicide.

"Thank you for choosing Comcast over death! Please hold while we find someone to torment you into regretting your choice..."

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

I know the feeling.

In two weeks time, I'll be moving to Singapore. Already set up in my apartment (I'm going to have to learn to call it a flat.) and just waiting for me to flip the power switches to turn everything on, is a package from Starhub with basic cable, landline phone (With a US number so people in the states can call me without paying international long distance.), 30Mbps broadband (Could have had 100Mb. But it'll be just me in the flat and even 30 is really overkill.), a 1Mbps USB dongle for my laptop, and cellular service with 12GB/month data (I could have an iPhone 3GS set up and ready to go. But I'm holding out for the new one.)... ... all of that for $20 LESS that what I'm paying Comcast for just cable and crippled internet with a cap! And it's even less than that because I'm just looking at the numbers and haven't applied the fact that 1sgd is about 0.7usd.

If I go over my 12GB wireless data cap, which is shared between my phone and USB dongle, additional data is metered until I pay an extra $30, at which point it becomes unlimited for no more cost than that $30. Oh... and as a public service, SingTel provides free nationwide 512KBps WiFi. Yes.. free and nationwide.

AT&T and Comcast can bite my shiny metal ass.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

I have 25/2 for $60, cox.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Then at least _I_ should be glad that my wife has chosen cancer. Yeah, sometimes a poor sick joke is the best one can make out of a month long hospital stay.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[X0563511]

That's funny, I'd have to pay over $90 for a lesser Comcast business plan, and only get one static IP.

Yea, that's interesting...

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Aeternitas827]

Nothing makes that 'Thank you for choosing Comcast' bit worse than the following 'Our offices are currently closed' when your cable just crapped out.

Particularly aggrivating for me is how my state (Illinois) handles regulating cable companies; the prevailing law (220 ILCS/5 - Public Utilities Act) changes on occasion, and includes the following bit:

All cable or video providers in this State shall comply with the following customer service requirements and privacy protections. The provisions of this Act shall not apply to an incumbent cable operator prior to January 1, 2008. For purposes of this paragraph, an incumbent cable operator means a person or entity that provided cable services in a particular area under a franchise agreement with a local unit of government...

The date given there changed with a 2009 version of the law, and indicated Jan 1, 2007 as the date, which was before Comcast took over operations from Insight (thus making them NOT incumbent, until the current version). Interesting in the bit, is that they at least WERE required to maintain staffing 24/7...and because the relevant law has been updated, I guess they're no longer subject, which sucks for we consumers who would like to at least have some lube when we get fucked.

Linky to the legalese, if anyone cares...hosted on the IL General Assembly's page.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[interkin3tic]

To me, whats bad about comcast is not their customer service, but their lobbying efforts. Not to say the other guys are saints, but for example I've heard of Comcast busing in people paid to just take up space in hearings on net neutrality (to crowd out consumers voicing their opinion).

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[ncgnu08]

Sounds very much like Charter in my area. I had multiple techs out, and no one on the phone would ever listen to what I was trying to tell them. Finally one night around 3am I got transferred to a very nice lady in Nebraska, who turned out to be in the engineering department (she coordinated with the actual engineers). She had been working with tech for 10 years or something like that. After actually LISTENING for a few minutes, she started running some tests over the line and found out I was right! I guess all those years of school and working for a large computer company taught me something. The very next day a senior tech came to my house, and within 30 minutes had the problem solved. It turns out their equipment, at a node within 50 yards of my house, was malfunctioning. They replaced it, and the problem was solved. Now, if only I did not have to spend 3 months working with operators and repair techs before I got the problem solved I would have been a happy customer. If I was not so fortunate to get transferred to that one lady that night I would still be dealing with their crap. I don't know what is worse: that for month after month (with me calling almost daily) they could not figure out the issue, or that they would not listen to me when I did their job in under an hour from my own cpu? Me thinks it is obvious they really don't care about customer service. I'm SURE they know exactly what % to keep the churn rate under to keep a profit, and know most people will either not change service providers or like me, only have one option. Just keep the service good enough to keep X% of customers and we will stay in the black - completely sad!

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[wye43]

is like trying to decide whether you'd prefer to have cancer or AIDS.

...AIDS? Wow, that's really... retro.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Aeternitas827]

Way to take things too seriously, douche.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Aeternitas827]

and I have 22/8 to the home, and 50/10 for my office - both of which I get (and then some) consistently in real world testing

You must either be a corporate plant, or living in the middle of nowhere. I've got 12/2 where I'm at, yet I've never--NOT EVEN at 2 in the morning when usage should be pretty damn well at a minimum--been able to perk above 8/1.1. A couple years ago, when the line was 10/1.5, downlink was never above 6, but uplink usually exceeded 2. The excuse, regardless, is always the same; the advertised rates are PEAK rates (though, on uplink only, I've been able to exceed them), that vary based upon blah-dee-blah-dee-blah. Frankly, it comes down to a lack of planning an execution when getting their cable/fiber laid, and overselling the area with promise of decent rates. Sadly, their Terms of Service pretty much prevent it being a case of Bait and Switch; the one area they seem to put a gob of money into is their Legal department.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Ultracrepidarian]

One ringy-dingy.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Krneki]

For US maybe.

In EU we have 20/20 optical ine for 30E/month.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[dangitman]

"Thank you for choosing Comcast over death! Please hold while we find someone to torment you into regretting your choice..."

Yo, Dante! Whats up, bro? Long time no speak... by the way, this is a really clear connection, you sound like you're right next to me.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus Christ. Where do you live? I don't want to be anywhere near there.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[HopefulIntern]

I choose Hitler. At least I would have career prospects.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[redscare2k4]

Ha! In Sweden maybe. In Spain, Portugal, Italy... no way!

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Ihmhi]

Is Comcast that bad?

I recently switched and have been happy. I got 12/2 business class with 5 static IPs for $69/month, free installation and it was all up and working within FOUR DAYS OF ORDERING.

Performance has been great, and it beats the shit out of the 1.5 I was stuck with on DSL forever.

Business class is almost universally better in terms of service and customer support as well as universally more expensive.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

"rather than watch idol, or dancing with egos."

I don't know. Those waffles can be really sexy sometimes.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[shiftless]

get Comcast Business service. then you get somebody's cell phone number to call if there is a problem.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[hey!]

That's the problem between selling an item that people buy for the quality of the experience, and buying a commodity item like bandwidth that people buy on price, period.

That's why the bandwidth providers are against net neutrality. They don't want to be in the business of selling a commodity to users. They want to be in the business of making side deals with content providers. Trying to differentiate bandwidth on quality of service is just a form of selling your labor, something you'll never get rich at doing because your costs scale with sales. What management is looking for is the proverbial license to print money. You can only get this show on our Internet service!

The disconnect between the business the bandwidth providers are in and what the consumers actually want for them makes me think that bandwidth should be treated as a public good, like highways. If the bandwidth providers want to go into the content business, let them.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[shiftless]

try Business Class. it's a totally different experience. the one time i had a problem, i called the account manager on his cell phone, let him know what was up, and within 5 minutes a real technician (with a clue) called ME to figure it out. turns out my linksys router gets flaky after transferring X amount of data and starts dropping more and more packets. so it wasnt their problem but everybody involved acted like they were more than happy to help.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[shiftless]

weird, my comcast business package is 6/1 for $59.95 a month and does not include static ips, but its only like $10-$15 extra a month to get a number of them (like 10 or so I think, dont really remember as i have no need for it)

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[mcgrew]

I have to sympathise with the poor guy, although I agree he should have let it be. I can understand the heartache the poor fellow is feeling; have you ever seen anyone die of cancer, particularly someone you love? I have, and I know the poor fellow is hurting badly. You should have let it slide, too. There was no reason for your flamebait.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[mcgrew]

Credit where credit is due, and the correct quote (from the days when AT&T was a monopoly)

"We're the phone company. We don't have to." -- Lily Tomlin's "Ernestine the telephone operator" character

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[LordKronos]

Why should I pay MORE for the business class service from Comcast when I can pay LESS to WOW and get wonderful service? Wouldn't that just be rewarding Comcast for their inferior service? "Your service was so bad...how about I give you MORE money and maybe THEN you can deliver what you promised me".

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

This is EXACTLY the same issue my company had with AT&T. We told them we needed around 10 existing cellphones on different plans/carriers consolidated into a new corporate plan, and add a few new lines to it. It took over two months to get anybody to call us back from corporate to set up a contract, and our "account manager" couldn't be bothered with anything as soon as the ink was on the paper. What we could get her to do, after about a month of ignored phone calls and messages, she screwed up so horribly we wound up having to drive to the next city over on our lunch to the AT&T retail store to get taken care of. The people there were far more helpful and eager to please, and got everything sorted out within an hour. If it wasn't for all the execs here having raging boners for these god damn iphones, we would have told AT&T to go eat a dick and happily paid any ETF just to get away from this madness.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Just Some Guy]

Now, compare that to WOW, where I can personally email the CTO directly about a problem, and he'll happily respond with a technical answer, and even admit fault if something went wrong on their end.

That's exactly why I still with my local ISP. They're not the cheapest, but whenever I have a (rare) problem, I can call Dan The CTO and he'll either have it looked at ASAP or tell me what's wrong and how long I can expect it to be down. My end of the bargain is that I don't call him until 1) I'm darn sure the problem's not on my end, and 2) it's been going on for a little while. I'm happy to hold up my end for that level of service.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Cobol God]

I had Comcast Cable TV and Internet service.. No TV for 3+ months. Had over 12 visits from different techs over the 3 months. Replaced cable box 4 times, Replaced repeater on pole, replaced line to house, I redid line from outside to tv, comcast tech redid line as well, Signal was just unwatchable. Told Comcast to cancel.

  3 months after I turn in my box I get another bill for $180 saying I owe it for the time I DID NOT HAVE SERVICE THAT I PAID FOR and for the another month after I canceled. I called and oh its a MISTAKE you only owe $30. You will get a bill in a week. TWO MONTHS LATER another bill for $180. I hate Comcast with a passion and am seriously thinking of getting a lawyer.
Got a call from COMCAST saying IF I DON'T pay the $180 they will turn it over to a collection agency and to the credit bureaus.
$180 to pay for service that I already paid for and didn't have. What reality do they live in to think that makes sense?

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

By wow, I assume you mean Wide Open West. If that's that case then I feel I should post a different perspective.

I had WOW in the last summer/fall but canceled after four months because they kept turning off my internet. When I would call, they would tell me it was due to their billing system. When I signed up, I got a month free, but they didn't enter it into their billing system, so the system always thought I was a month late. By law, they can't turn off the cable until 10 days after notifying me that payment is late and they are terminating service, but there is no such provision for internet access. The fourth month, they had not only received my check, but it had cleared. It took four days after clearing to post to their billing system and the fourth day was the following day. So not only was I not late, but I was early in paying and yet they were terminating my service (including cable, although they had never notified me) and going to charge me a reconnection fee unless I paid by credit card by midnight. There was no way I was paying three months a head of schedule just to make them happy, so I canceled yet they refused to refund the $140 I had on credit.

Faster forward to October when I bought my house. The other cable company wanted $300 to do an installation (wires were already ran; previous owners had them so there was no reason to run new wires). I basically decided which ever cable company offered me free installation first would get the chance to provide service. WOW was the first when the offered in march so I tried them. They swore they already had a line ran to my house, so they would just need to physically connect it to the existing wires. When the installation guy came, he ran a cable above ground (just laying on the ground, not strung as we have buried utilities) and promise they would bury it in the next week or two. After a month, I called them to find out that "by the end of April, they expected to start burying lines again" after more prodding I found out they hadn't buried any since the previous year so hopefully by the end of June they would bury the cable line. I explained this was unacceptable and literally was told "too bad". After a complaint to the state, WOW did end up burying the line 6 weeks after installation.

They turned off my internet for non-payment. Again, I wasn't late and the person told me there was nothing I could do. I said thank you, talked things over with my fiancee and was going to cancel. When I called, I got a very nice and helpful guy who restored service, took payment (after restoring and confirming it was restored; that meant something to me), and said from now on to call him directly and gave me his number. I haven't tried that number as I haven't had another problem, but he was literally good enough to make me give them a second chance.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[n0084ever]

... and gets modded Interesting on top of it. nice.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[X0563511]

Do you have any other Comcast services? Apparently they rape you if you don't buy their cable service too.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[swb]

Singapore is about the size of a small metropolitan area. They could run the whole place on ethernet.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[BikeHelmet]

I recently switched and have been happy.

But you switched. To get you to switch, they had to put in money and effort making their lines better.

Read what you were replying to:

Or if you live in an area like me, it's Comcast cable, or nothing else. There is no choice.

If you have no choice, why would they waste money on infrastructure? There is nobody else, so they're the best by default, even if their connection drops out every 20 minutes and you get 1/10th the advertised speed!

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[drachenstern]

Yeah, but which would you prefer to die from? Cancer or AIDS? I would prefer to die from cancer. It's like having a sworn enemy. Versus AIDS you might die at the slightest thing, given the circumstances.

So, while the "joke" was indeed insensitive, I still stand by my choice. I would prefer cancer over AIDS.

Not sure who the AC was that posted after me, and I feel really bad for him, but I don't think he considered what I considered before getting upset with me. I also reckon Aeternitas827 was a bit out of line.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[rdnetto]

Is Comcast that bad?

I recently switched and have been happy. I got 12/2 business class with 5 static IPs for $69/month, free installation and it was all up and working within FOUR DAYS OF ORDERING.

Performance has been great, and it beats the shit out of the 1.5 I was stuck with on DSL forever.

That's why - from what I've heard, Comcast's business customers get completely different treatment to their residential customers.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[Lost Race]

That sounds like Zipcon.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[shiftless]

Well if you have better alternatives, then by all means use them. But for the people bitching because Comcast is their only provider and they get shitty service---upgrade to Business Class. it's not much more expensive and the service is far better.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[mcgrew]

I'd rather e shot by a jealous lover. On the upstroke. At age 110.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[drachenstern]

c'mon mcgrew :p ~ We're deciding between those two explicit choices! I would prefer to go quietly in my sleep when I'm like 70-80. I wanna get out of the way sooner, but not that soon.

Re:Having to choose between AT&T and Comcast

[mcgrew]

I've never seen anyone die of aids, so I couldn't make a reasonable choice. I know I'd rather be shot than have cancer, though.

suop

[Anonymous Coward]

sup

Fuck it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck AT&T. Go Android.

Re:Fuck it.

[Lunix Nutcase]

Fuck AT&T. Go Android.

You mean except for the fact that AT&T has Android phones?

Re:Fuck it.

[Kenja]

Since when? Nothing listed on their phones page, or anywhere else.

Re:Fuck it.

[Lunix Nutcase]

Since a while? I found this in 2 seconds by googling "at&t android phones".

Re:Fuck it.

[inpher]

Try here then: AT&T Android.

Re:Fuck it.

[Kenja]

So there is. Pity its such a crap phone. Stuck with Droid 1.5 due to some proprietary facebook/twitter client that the entire phone is centered around.

Re:Fuck it.

[Lunix Nutcase]

Oh it's well-known that AT&T's Android phones are some of the weakest out there.

Re:Fuck it.

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

Oh it's well-known that AT&T's Android phones are some of the weakest out there.
Oh, it's worse than that. The backflip has signed boot loaders so you can't really upgrade the Android version if you wanted to.

Re:Fuck it.

[Kenja]

And it seems that you cant install apps directly using an AT&T android phone. And they replaced all the google search features with yahoo...

Was almost tempted there for a moment.

Re:Fuck it.

[__aasqbs9791]

T-Mobile seems to be right there with them. My contract's up and I want to jump ship to get an Incredible but I have to get paid on some work I did for a friend first... Grrrrr. Friends. Can't live with them (sometimes), wouldn't want to live without them (sometimes).

Re:Fuck it.

[Anonymous Coward]

T-Mobile seems to be right there with them. My contract's up and I want to jump ship to get an Incredible but I have to get paid on some work I did for a friend first... Grrrrr. Friends. Can't live with them (sometimes), wouldn't want to live without them (sometimes).

it isn't your friend's fault that you're a people-pleaser and a pushover. if money is a problem require it up-front. if you decide not to require it up-front as a favor to them then take responsibility for your decision to offer that instead of blaming them for taking you up on your offer. simplicity itself and also why i don't have these problems.

Re:Fuck it.

[virtualXTC]

T-mobile seems fine in the north-east. Though if you live in the south you can just get a flash a Motorola Droid and switch metro pcs for the cheapest monthly rates.

Re:Fuck it.

[__aasqbs9791]

I'm in the North-west. They aren't terrible in coverage, but not great, either. Wait, isn't the Motorola Droid CDMA?

Re:Fuck it.

[virtualXTC]

Yes, and that it works on metro pcs shocked me too.

Re:Fuck it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck Android and their half-assed "open source" development.

Go MeeGo!

Re:Fuck it.

[Inner_Child]

Yeah, except only one of those is an Android phone. The Backflip. And it is possibly the single worst Android phone ever: the touchpad is on the BACK of the screen, it's slow, unresponsive, and will never get upgraded past 1.5. AT&T's Android offering is horrible.

Re:Fuck it.

[ducomputergeek]

And guess what, you get the same "bait and switch" data plans with Android & Blackberry on AT&T since it applies to all their phones with data plans.

Re:Fuck it.

[afidel]

It's not bait and switch, it only applies to new lines or to month-to-month plans like the iPad.

Re:Fuck it.

[KovaaK]

And it seems that you cant install apps directly using an AT&T android phone.

On the surface, it seems that way. But if you install the SDK, you can install whatever app you want (that works for version 1.5 of the OS).

I own a Backflip, and I'm pretty happy with it. It's my first Android phone, but I don't really see any major advantage that my dad's Droid has over the Backflip aside from a faster processor.

In related news...

[Sepultura]

Steve Jobs says, "You can do that?"

Re:In related news...

[xTantrum]

You hear the one about the unemployed man about to jail time for complaining to his senator? classic.

Re:In related news...

[Low Ranked Craig]

Seems more and more like the country is being run by Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader with Grand Moff Tarkin tightening his grip.

These elitist assholes need to be slapped upside the head with the constitution, and the bozos on the grand jury that handed down the indictment need full frontal lobotomies. I guess I should be waiting for a knock on the door for the previous statement...

Re:In related news...

[Mike Van Pelt]

But... but... but...

This can't happen. The One is President. It's all fluffy bunnies, rainbows, and unicorns now. Hope. Change.

Isn't it?

</sarcasm>

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dicks will still be dicks no matter who's in power.

Unless...

Re:In related news...

[interval1066]

You hear the one about the unemployed man about to jail time for complaining to his senator? classic.

If its in the Huffington Post it must be about a republican senator... Oh look! It is. Well, its only natural, democrat lawmakers never do anything wrong; http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1865781,00.html

Re:In related news...

[je ne sais quoi]

On the other hand, the political climate in the U.S. is becoming unstable. Just off the top of my head, in the last couple of years we've had a security guard at the holocaust museum gunned down by a white supremicist holocaust denier, a guy flew his plane into an IRS building because he didn't want to pay his taxes and a christian militia that was allegedly planning on murdering police officers. This is to say nothing about the people screaming threats at e.g., Obama, at conservative/tea party rallies. I was just in eastern TN last weekend and saw a bumper sticker on a traffic light box that read, "Secession before socialism." I'm glad that the FBI is checking up on these things, because I have no desire to see any assassinations in this country. We heard one side of this story, until we know the whole story in the court case, I will reserve judgment.

I'm certainly not for AT&T sending C&D orders because people are e-mailing them rants, but I am tired of the minority of people in this country who think they can hold the entire country hostage to their will through threats, imaginary or real. I'm also tired of hearing of people espousing sedition.

Re:In related news...

[Majik Sheff]

>>people screaming threats at e.g., Obama, at conservative/tea party rallies

[citation needed]

Re:In related news...

[Macrat]

www.huffingtonpost.com

No link to a RELIABLE news source?

Re:In related news...

[Jedi Alec]

But! But! The other kid jumped off the bridge too!

Will you americans grow the fuck up?

Re:In related news...

[StikyPad]

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me.

Re:In related news...

[nomadic]

Complaining to his Senator with a bunch of emails where he used a fake name. Still stupid, but the emails alone aren't putting him in jail.

Re:In related news...

[je ne sais quoi]

Right here.

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

I was just in eastern TN last weekend and saw a bumper sticker on a traffic light box that read, "Secession before socialism." I'm glad that the FBI is checking up on these things, because I have no desire to see any assassinations in this country.

Wow, the nerve of that person to exercise his 1st amendment rights by having a bumper sticker that you might not agree with. Pray tell, what does such a bumper sticker have to do with assassinations?

I'm also tired of hearing of people espousing sedition.

This country was founded on sedition.

Re:In related news...

[omega_dk]

Not his senator, actually. He's from PA and the senator was from KY. (Not that that makes it any less ridiculous)

Re:In related news...

[tsm_sf]

This country was founded on sedition.

Aren't most of them?

Re:In related news...

[jvkjvk]

Right, because what Blagojevich did TOTALLY absolves everyone else of anything they might do.

Perhaps you should judge people for what they do regardless of any other affiliations.

Regards.

Re:In related news...

[LanMan04]

It has to do with war. That he wants to start. With his countrymen.

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

It's called freedom of speech. Sorry if that notion offends some of you.

Re:In related news...

[dangitman]

You hear the one about the unemployed man about to jail time for complaining to his senator?

Jailing time is quite an achievement! One would think that would be the work of a scientist with a time machine, not an "unemployed man."

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

a guy flew his plane into an IRS building because he didn't want to pay his taxes

True, but that guy was being robbed by an illegal statute that was going to be fixed after the bill was passed. (oh, where have I heard that one before?!)

a christian militia that was allegedly planning on murdering police officers

emphasis mine. And what does being Christian have anything to do with it. I can guarantee, if this group was as malicious as the media make them out to be, all of the Christian sects would stand against their actions.

people screaming threats at e.g., Obama, at conservative/tea party rallies.

Most of the TEA party rallies around the nation are very peaceful, except for the liberals trying to subvert the party. Many of those people are then asked to leave.

I'm glad that the FBI is checking up on these things

Heaven forbid they check on the real terrorists that attempt to blow up their pants on planes, their trucks on streets, or check on personnel that may be psychotic because he is of a certain religion (and are afraid of a profiling charge). Oh, that's right, there is no terrorism, there are no terrorists, and jihad is a legitimate tenet. I will agree with you. I do not want an assassination. It is interesting to note, however, that it is usually the left that are the ones committing the violence. (Don't like those sources, doesn't matter, fact is fact no matter the source.)

Re:In related news...

[MindlessAutomata]

*waves hand* This is not the CHANGE you're looking for.

Re:In related news...

[MindlessAutomata]

By secession? It's only war if the rest of the country decides to murder and kill to keep people in it that want to leave. That's something gangs do.

Re:In related news...

[jbeach]

Change from Bush was enough for me. Now I actually have hope the country can recover.

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

What's interesting is that I didn't hear any of these leftists throwing around the 'S' word when Bush was in office and the progressives were musing about leaving the union.

Re:In related news...

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

On the other hand, the political climate in the U.S. is becoming unstable.

Wrong. It's simply becoming more extremist; though instability is one of the side effects of this.

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty much sucks to be obama right now. His states are challenging his power (see AZ), the economy is still in the shitter (recovery my ass) and he's successfully ignoring the biggest ecological disaster in the years since leaded gasoline, ddt, and the industrial revolution. He's oversteering his way into the most disastrous term since the last one.
 
I really wish that a real candidate would have ran in the 2008 election, unfortunately, he's the best of that stock.

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    -- Thomas Jefferson

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a moron because I say so. Don't like my sources? Doesn't matter, fact is fact no matter the source.

Re:In related news...

[Lehk228]

no, it was founded on treason, but that doesn't keep it from being a hanging offense

Re:In related news...

[timmarhy]

what makes you say that, because a politician tells you so??? kettle, meet pot...

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

I don't think you can claim that a "Secession before socialism." bumper sticker equates to giving the enemies of the United States aid or comfort.

Re:In related news...

[jbeach]

What makes me say that is, my own eyes.

We haven't started another two wars, we actually have a health care bill, we actually have a stimulus package, we actually passed the Ledbetter Fair Pay act, and on and on. That makes him far better than Bush right there. And as a bonus, Obama didn't bring that obscenity Palin one heart attack away from The Button.

Now, there's a lot with Obama that sucks. I wish he was also better than Bush on warrantless wiretapping, prisoner rights, stuff that really bothers the crap out of me. But Obama's not really, at least at this point. Can't deny it.

But he's still better than Bush in enough other ways, and it's important to keep a clear perspective on it rather than get sucked into purity troll rhetoric. That's what gave Nader enough juice to give the White House to Bush ten years ago - when it's pretty clear that Gore, whatever his faults, would have been a far better President.

Re:In related news...

[TooMuchToDo]

The British were technically our countrymen until the colonies declared their independence.

Re:In related news...

[Yvanhoe]

Fact : most Americans have a mental representation of "socialism" that depicts something that never existed outside their borders. A bit like their "football" thing.

Re:In related news...

[Ultracrepidarian]

Too late. The corporations have a grip on all three branches of our federal government.

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

So do you just believe everything that you see on the news? I mean really, they are out to make a profit. Don't you think that might skew their reporting, ever so slightly?

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

The US already is socialist. The roads are provided by general taxation. A real non-socialist country would require people to pay as they go.

Not to mention all the support for the welfare queens on wall street and the 'tax breaks', sorry subsidies, for corporations.

Oh, I get it, the sap in the car means no socialism for poor saps like him.The man is a real serf and doesn't know it.

Re:In related news...

[je ne sais quoi]

Just because you are within your 1st amendment rights to talk about seceding if you don't get your way politically doesn't mean that I can't criticize you for it, nor talk about how I believe it's a good thing the FBI is investigating people who might kill innocents. The point of my quoting the bumper sticker was another example that the political climate is unstable in the U.S. That there is a fine line between protecting your first amendment rights and crossing it and using violence against your fellow citizens. Conservatives like yourselves like to couch your arguments in select passages of the constitution without consideration of the larger context. I believe that people like yourself are not actually patriots, you don't give a damn about the rest of society you just want your freedom to act any way you please and not have to answer for yourself and you couch that in convenient sounding platitudes and select texts of the constitution.

This country was founded on sedition.

Yes, but somehow I think that secession because the U.S. tries to give health care to poor people is not on the same caliber of "good reasons to secede" as say, taxation without representation, the quartering of troops or the right to a speedy trial. Next you'll be telling me that since Rand Paul was within his 1st amendment rights to say that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against black people, we shouldn't criticize him for it. While far from perfect, the U.S. government does much more good than harm for U.S. citizens. You should really stop and reflect on that.

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

Businesses should be allowed to discriminate against black people. We have freedom of association in this country. That also includes the right not to associate. What are you so worried about anyway? No business that did this would keep it's doors open for very long. They would be boycotted out of existence.

BTW, I'm not a "Conservative", at least in the current American sense of the word and I'm tempted to tell you to go fuck yourself for questioning my patriotism. I didn't attack yours, why are you attacking mine?

Re:In related news...

[ultranova]

By secession? It's only war if the rest of the country decides to murder and kill to keep people in it that want to leave. That's something gangs do.

Using force to maintain authoirity is something any authority does, which any authority has to do to do its main job: protecting people.

People join gangs because it's much better to have other people you can rely on to back you up when needed than being alone, and all governments are really just scaled-up and further refined gangs. They are in fact sufficiently advanced that some of their subjects have forgotten just how weak and helpless a lone human is. This, in turn, has caused the upsurge of extreme form of libertarianism and other ideologies which confuse heroic fantasy with real life.

Besides, a society which allows secession will simply break apart and be eaten piecemeal by one that doesn't.

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just off the top of my head, in the last couple of years we've had a security guard at the holocaust museum gunned down by a white supremicist holocaust denier, a guy flew his plane into an IRS building because he didn't want to pay his taxes and a christian militia that was allegedly planning on murdering police officers.

That's really not unusual. Go back to the 90s and you'll find similar isolated incidents. Oklahoma City? Columbine? Things really aren't any worse now. If you want unrest, try looking at the 60s.

Re:In related news...

[interval1066]

Shall I trot out more stories of democratic shenanigans?

Re:In related news...

[jahudabudy]

No business that did this would keep it's doors open for very long. They would be boycotted out of existence.

I know you are a big believer in the power of the free market to cure all ills (I read your posts), but I gotta ask how you can believe this? The actual evidence from history contradicts this belief. Segregated businesses thrived until the Federal government stepped in. In fact, after it was made illegal, there were a few high-profile instances of things almost coming to physical conflict over the right to discriminate.

Now, if you want to argue that there is some demonstrable good to society (that I admit I don't see) from allowing discrimination that outweighs the demonstrated harm, that's different. But given the historical record, you'll need some rather convincing arguments to successfully defend the idea that society is now at a point that it will not tolerate racism.

Re:In related news...

[blackraven14250]

Businesses should be allowed to discriminate against black people. We have freedom of association in this country. That also includes the right not to associate. What are you so worried about anyway? No business that did this would keep it's doors open for very long. They would be boycotted out of existence.

That small business will be boycotted out of existence, as soon as black people move into the area, which won't happen because of the current population's unwillingness to sell homes to blacks....

The idea that you have the right to non-association is nonsense. It would create segregated pockets within the country.

Re:In related news...

[jahudabudy]

Completely off-topic, but whoever came up with "Would you jump off a bridge just b/c someone else did it first?" as a rhetorical device indicating juvenility has obviously never jumped off a bridge. It's rather fun, and in fact fairly safe as long as someone else goes first.
</pet peeve>

I think I'm just bitter b/c my mom never accepted the obvious logic of this response to her rhetorical question.

Re:In related news...

[ultranova]

Conservatives like yourselves like to couch your arguments in select passages of the constitution without consideration of the larger context.

This reminded me of a recent slacktivist blog entry, which was about how Christian fundamentalists keep on focusing on the few parts of the Bible which talk about homosexuality and ignore the huge passages of text which condemn hoarding wealth. Given the overlap of conservatism and religion - the infamous "religious right" - I wonder if there's a connection?

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

The actual evidence from history contradicts this belief.

That was the 50s and 60s. Today is the 21st century. Do you seriously believe that a business that put up a "No Negros" sign would remain in business very long?

Now, if you want to argue that there is some demonstrable good to society (that I admit I don't see) from allowing discrimination that outweighs the demonstrated harm

IMHO, the "demonstrated harm" is irrelevant. If you believe in free association then you can't condone a policy that compels people to associate with one another.

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

The idea that you have the right to non-association is nonsense.

False.

It would create segregated pockets within the country.

Those pockets already exist. They are just based on economic factors rather than racial ones.

Re:In related news...

[jahudabudy]

Do you seriously believe that a business that put up a "No Negros" sign would remain in business very long?

No, but neither do I believe any business would be so blatant. I think a more subtle approach very well might be successful. Additionally, as I think more about it, I have come to the conclusion that it is disingenuous to argue that forced association is unnecessary and wrong b/c it has been so successful in the last 50 years. Modern societies' attitude towards racism is a direct result of forced integration 50(ish) years ago. Your argument strikes me as "Forced association is wrong, and furthermore isn't even necessary because it has already been done and succeeded admirably".

As to "believing in free association", it is certainly an admirable ideal. However, and perhaps this is where we will just have to disagree, I think a nebulous ideal good that has no specific benefit to society should be compromised in the face of a specific, demonstrable harm adherence to that ideal creates.

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

I think a nebulous ideal good that has no specific benefit to society should be compromised in the face of a specific, demonstrable harm adherence to that ideal creates.

Using that line of reasoning we can gut the 1st amendment. After all, it allows the KKK to speak....

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Look Jihad up in the dictionary, dipshit.

Re:In related news...

[EricTheGreen]

-- "This country was founded on sedition"

Birthed by it, yes...but jolly well neither grown nor sustained by it. We forget that, once the revolution ended, the foundation allowing those upstarts to survive and thrive was laid down by unglamorous compromise and consensus-building, allowing people with dramatically divergent viewpoints on everything from government power to personal freedom to both co-exist and act effectively to deal with looming threats to their existence. Sound familiar these days?

You want to solve problems? So solve them. At some point the mob shouting has to die down, the cheap signaling of bumper-sticker populism needs to get out of the way and people need to work towards real consensus on how to solve real problems. The screaming does absolutely nothing. Other than remind me of my 6-year old daughter throwing a tantrum when she doesn't get her way.

Not easy, not sexy and certainly not nearly as cathartic as screaming "Obama the Socialist" (or, to be fair, "Bush the Idiot Emperor" in times past). And it does require compromise and change. God forbid, I know. But since no one on any side of this latest 21st-century American collective existential crisis seems to be truly happy with the status quo, aren't we asking for some kind of change anyway?

Quit your collective yapping, all of you, and do something productive. Deal with the reality that the world you're familiar with from the past is changing and how we collectively engage it is going to change as well, one way or another. And then try to build a reality that incorporates what you respect with the ability to accommodate the world as it is now.

And, for the love of real discourse, lose the bloody bumper stickers...

Re:In related news...

[jahudabudy]

Not at all. The 1st amendment has one very tangible, very ubiquitous benefit to society: it removes an incredibly powerful tool of suppression, censorship. This goes a long way towards preventing suppression of political dissent, cultural expression, religious expression/practice, almost certainly many other areas. Taking these benefits to society and weighing them against the harm in allowing the KKK to spread its hatred allows me to make a pragmatic risk vs. reward judgment. I'm still uncertain as to specific "reward" aspects of freedom of association, in contrast to very clear "risks" associated with institutional racism.

Re:In related news...

[Shakrai]

We ought not to weigh risks vs. rewards with regards to civil liberties.

Re:In related news...

[VisceralLogic]

We haven't started another two wars, we actually have a health care bill, we actually have a stimulus package, we actually passed the Ledbetter Fair Pay act, and on and on. That makes him far better than Bush right there. And as a bonus, Obama didn't bring that obscenity Palin one heart attack away from The Button.

You may have missed it, but there's actually been a lot of controversy about both of these bolded items...

Re:In related news...

[MindlessAutomata]

So you don't believe in self-government? Who is the rightful ruler, then? And how is a government protecting people by forcing them under rule they might find oppressive? I can see that under many strains of conservatism and paternalistic liberalism, but...

Besides, a society which allows secession will simply break apart and be eaten piecemeal by one that doesn't.

Secession only occurs if the need or want to secede exists.

Re:In related news...

[Jesus_666]

Except for a few oddballs, yeah. Germany has a habit of going against the trend, either arising out of conglomeration (more than twenty small countries merging into the German Empire in 1871) or out of decree (the creation of the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic in 1949). Of course the situation before 1871 was essentially the aftermath of the Holy Roman Empire blowing up.

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually...since the government seems to favor large corporations and special interest groups, you could argue that the general public is taxed without representation. In addition, as our country grows, the house of representatives or the representatives themselves, actually lose more 'voting' power via population growth. So we effectively get less representation thru more representatives. Now if you don't believe me just look at our dependence on oil. Ford motor company(special interest group), Mr Ford in particular, lobbied our government to increase roads and not fund public transportation initiatives. We built our cities around the automobile so he could sell more cars. Sure the roads made our country great at distributing goods and services, but it also led to our huge dependence on foreign oil and other special interest groups: big oil. Now we find ourselves looking at quite possibly the worse ecological disaster in US history because the government was so concerned about the citizens and our evironment that it regulated those big oil guys and represented its citizens like they should have. I have to say the government is a perfect machine, just not for citizens.

Re:In related news...

[mcgrew]

*waves pennies* This is!

Re:In related news...

[jbeach]

I haven't missed it, I've been conscious and sentient.

What seems to be going on is, a lot of people don't like the bills - but some of them for "going too far", and others for *not going far enough*.

I think it's fair to say that those who don't the bills go far enough, still think they're better off than they would be under a continued Republican conservative administration.

Re:In related news...

[jahudabudy]

As I suspected, it boils down to this fundamental difference in our philosophies. I think all policy implementations ought to weigh risk vs reward (however those are defined and measured for that situation). I just can't see doing obvious harm in the name of some higher ideal, without any tangible benefits to offset the tangible harm. But I can understand the impulse.

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

The U.S. is not trying to give health care to poor people.

They're simply ensuring that -everyone- is a customer of one insurance provider or another.

Sorry, but whatever good the US govt does is for its insiders only. They do only harm to the common citizen nowadays.

Re:In related news...

[ovu]

Did you read that article? The guy was previously arrested for a string of 35 burglaries w/ his girlfriend, and when the cops apprehended him, he was getting it on with his girlfriend on a pile of stolen property. He's not exactly a model of innocence!

Re:In related news...

[scot4875]

Sure, and then others can respond with stories of Republican shenanigans, and you can argue about who is worse. That will be constructive political discourse.

Oh wait, no it won't -- it'll be the equivalent of a couple of children calling each other names.

You clearly don't get it though, so go ahead and post some more stuff about William Jefferson or whatever other democrat misdeeds make you feel better about the republican misdeeds.

--Jeremy

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that the whole text of the constitution effectively prohibits socialism. The government defined by the constitution cannot have the authority to centrally control the US economy.

Rand Paul's point was that the federal government should not have the power force associations (there is no intrinsic difference between an economic transaction and a social transaction between associated parties and we still do have the freedom to associate with whomever we choose, right?). The civil rights act was a dirty hack from a troubled time; a necessary, lesser evil. The trouble was that racism was prevalent enough that it could dramatically lower the quality of life for someone on the receiving end of it. There are enough businesses run by non-racists these days that it really shouldn't be a problem any more.

Rand Paul doesn't believe that business should be able to discriminate against black people, he believes the government having the power to dictate otherwise is a greater danger.

Re:In related news...

[ultranova]

So you don't believe in self-government?

A person can self-govern himself. A bunch of people can't, because they aren't a single entity, yet they must if they live next to each other, or they'll end up killing each other. Add the fact that humans are physically too feeble to survive on their own, and you get a nasty little problem, which we still haven't really solved.

Who is the rightful ruler, then?

No one. It's one of those "we're in a lifeboat and have no food, so let's draw lots to see who gets eaten" -situations. It's not right by any stretch of imagination, but it's that or everyone dies.

And how is a government protecting people by forcing them under rule they might find oppressive? I can see that under many strains of conservatism and paternalistic liberalism, but...

If government allowed people to secede whenever they wanted, I could simply secede, mug someone, then rejoin. By not accepting my secession the government is not protecting me, obviously, but both my victims and the victims of vigilantes that would rise to hunt me down if the police failed to do so. And if the government doesn't allow me to secede whenever I want, then it's keeping me in by force.

Basically, rule that's not backed by force is just another name for anarchy, since you can simply ignore it, and anarchy can only work if humans are not bastards, and, well...

Re:In related news...

[MindlessAutomata]

So might makes right, then? You must have some odd views about the holocaust...

Winders makes you into stupid winbreds

[Anonymous Coward]

Winders XP? What does the XP mean? eXtra Poopy? I imagine a bunch of you winbreds are going to mod me down.

even kids know better...

[Anonymous Coward]

AT&T needs to take the hint. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qb0vquRcys

bottom line is

[Dyinobal]

Bottom line is you can't do anything all you can do is if you don't like they way they run business is to cancel your service with them. America is for the corporations now after all they paid for it.

Re:bottom line is

[nurb432]

and if you cancel, you get charged for early termination.

Re:bottom line is

[jvkjvk]

I'm sorry, but that's not how it works anymore.

Now, large corporations have a right to profits.

If enough people switch to a model that causes profits to fall, the corporations will cause laws to get passed to restore them.

Witness the tax levy on blank media in Canada.

Witness the proposed tax on electronics to support the news conglomerates in the US.

Witness ACTA.

Face it, they have Power now and they will amass an increasing amount in the foreseeable future because the problem has become systemic.

Regards.

Re:bottom line is

[schon]

Witness the tax levy on blank media in Canada.

What about the levy on blank media in the USA?

Re:bottom line is

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they've even stolen most of your punctuation.

Re:bottom line is

[jvkjvk]

Well, I bet that we could go on for quite a while listing examples.

My list certainly wasn't meant to be exhaustive or even particularly long.

I find the USA'S policy A BIT DISGUSTING as well.

Regards.

How is it bait & switch

[PatHMV]

I continue to fail to see how it is "bait & switch" when a company decides to stop offering one plan, after several years, and change to offering a different pricing plan that it thinks will better meet its and its consumers needs. No contract you ever signed with them guaranteed that you would ALWAYS be able to buy unlimited access at $30. They never guaranteed that unlimited access at $30 would be available forever. Me, I've been using my iPhone pretty extensively for almost 2 years now, and I've run up a grand total of 3.8 GB. That's 2GB a year for me, and AT&T's service will now be $5 per month less and give me 2GB per month. I'm coming out ahead of the game here. I'm glad AT&T has decided to change their plan to charge me less for the same amount of service that I am actually consuming now. AND they've announced this change just before release of the new iPhone version. That's the exact opposite of bait & switch. "Hey, folks, before you sign a new 2 year contract to get the new iPhone, we're telling you about this new service terms that you'll be signing up for, so you can make an informed decision." That's truth-in-advertising, not bait & switch.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

It's bait and switch because they advertised $15 / month for 250 MB and $30 / month of "unlimited" (5 GB) for the iPad - you know, that same iPad that's only been on sale (well, with 3G) for about a month. AT&T advertised that you will have no contract, can change your plan at any time (go up, down, or no data all together) at no charge, and that you can have unlimited data on your iPad to watch all the Netflix, browsing, apps, etc you could want. So yes, telling a customer X to get them to buy a product and then just a couple weeks later making changes that make it impossible for the customer to use what they bought under the terms with which they purchased it, is a bait and switch.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[calmofthestorm]

Current customers are grandfathered in and can continue to receive what they signed up for. For now.

I agree that changing things after a month or two is pretty crappy, but I guess on some level no-contract is a two-way street.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[rickb928]

My lunch partner used 5.5GB last month. Many podcasts, a few higher quality videos, and swapping a lot of music in and out. Same the month before.

You are not using your iPhone very extensively, relatively speaking.

And he's grandfathered in for now. They could change their terms and soft cap him.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lunix Nutcase]

AT&T advertised that you will have no contract

And thus in the absence of a contract they had no legal obligations to maintain these terms. If you wanted a guarantee things maybe you should have had them written down in a legally binding document (aka a contract)?

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

Current customers get to keep unlimited data for $30 / month as long as they never change their plan. If they take advantage of the iPad's no contract feature and go down to the lower data plan or cancel it all together for a month (say going out of the country), they then lose the ability to get unlimited data.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

You're using two different usages of the term "contract". Just because there is no "contract" requiring you to pay $X for Y service for Z months doesn't mean that there isn't a "contract" that you have the ability to choose from 3 plans (no data, limited data, or unlimited data) from month to month and you can change which option you pick each month with no penalty.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lunix Nutcase]

Just because there is no "contract" requiring you to pay $X for Y service for Z months doesn't mean that there isn't a "contract" that you have the ability to choose from 3 plans (no data, limited data, or unlimited data) from month to month and you can change which option you pick each month with no penalty.

In what way was a contract established if you hadn't even bought the product?

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because there is no "contract" requiring you to pay $X for Y service for Z months doesn't mean that there isn't a "contract" that you have the ability to choose from 3 plans (no data, limited data, or unlimited data) from month to month and you can change which option you pick each month with no penalty.

In what way do you have a contract which guarantees those terms? Because they happened to offer such a deal at some point in the past? AT&T isn't obligated to offer such a deal in perpetuity nor that they can't add additional terms to the deal.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[ClosedSource]

To advertise a per month price that only lasts a single month is inherently misleading because such an offer assumes a multiple-month scenario. AT&T did this to try get people to decide on buying a device and hoping that once the decision is made and the customer has gone to the trouble of going to the store and the phone is in their bag they'll reluctantly agree to the new price.

A company the size of AT&T doesn't turn on a dime. The change in policy was most likely planned well in advance and doesn't in any way reflect a desire to better meet its consumer's needs.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Rogerborg]

Current customers are grandfathered in and can continue to receive what they signed up for.

Say, by any chance did they sign up for an "unlimited" plan with a "reasonable use" caveat? You know, it's "unlimited" up until you hit the limit, which is entirely up to AT&T and not guaranteed by the contract. So it's 5GB this month. Next month it's 3GB. Then 1GB. Then you're a filthy resource hogging parasite if you use your "unlimited" connection to download a couple of email headers, and AT&T exercise their reserved right to terminate your contract. That sort of plan?

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Anonymous Coward]

There can still be bait and switch even if there's no contract. These contract features were advertised to sell ipads. If you bought one, but haven't signed up for a data plan yet, you're screwed.

Bait and switch is a scam whether there's a contract or not. Actually, bat and switch is a scam precisely because there is no contract. If there was a contract, you could recover under contract law without alleging fraud.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[ClosedSource]

Being guilty of "bait and switch" doesn't require a contract or even a purchase. It's fraud on its face.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lunix Nutcase]

Unlimited has never really meant unlimited transfer amounts. It was also about having unlimited access.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Snowhare]

Up until an hour or two ago (it is now 5pm in California), the Apple store listed the iPad as having the $30/month unlimited plan available if you bought one - period. About four hours ago AT&T stated on their Facebook account that you could (1) Only get the $30/month plan if you activated it before June 7th, and (2) You had to have the physical device to activate. That would mean *EVERYONE* who bought a 3G iPad via the Apple store during the last week or two and hasn't yet received it would have been sold a device under the false promise of being able to subscribe to the unlimited data plan : The very definition of 'Bait & Switch'.

I lodged a complaint with the FTC via their web site and posted that I had done so to AT&T's Facebook page a couple of hours ago and advised others to do the same.

Magically,just hours later, if you go to Apple's store right now it clearly states that if you buy an iPad by June 6th, you *WILL* be eligible for the $30/month unlimited plan - in contradiction to AT&T's previous clear statements on it only a few hours ago.

Which probably means *someone* at AT&T blinked in the face of facing legal charges of a blatant bait and switch by the company.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[calmofthestorm]

Personally I like the t-mobile plan. It's advertised not as "unlimited" but as "no overage". You get up to 5 GB and then they reserve the right to throttle.

Of course, throttling ranges from reasonable QoS stuff to Comcast's "throttling" torrents to less than 1 kbps, but even so I like the guarantee that I won't get slapped with extra fees.

My main complaint isn't the caps, but the misleading advertising surrounding them. Having unlimited access isn't the world's best idea for obvious reasons from game theory. Of course, I do worry about how much the lack of net neutrality and static bandwidth caps are going to hold back innovation in the coming decade.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[nurb432]

As much as i hate to say this, perhaps congress needs to get involved. That is what our government is for, to protect is from garbage like this.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like they took one out of Sony's playbook.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lars T.]

Current customers get to keep unlimited data for $30 / month as long as they never change their plan. If they take advantage of the iPad's no contract feature and go down to the lower data plan or cancel it all together for a month (say going out of the country), they then lose the ability to get unlimited data.

So? They can go to any mobile provider at any time, the iPad isn't exclusive to AT&T.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I just recently canceled a $4 or $5/mo unlimited text plan from AT&T -- they stopped offering it three years ago, but I was grandfathered in because that's what I signed up for. Do you have any indication that this will be any different?

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

Technically you're right, but if I remember correctly, only AT&T currently supports the Micro-SIM cards that the iPad uses (at least in the US).

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

Personally, I prefer Sprints new plan you get with the Evo even more - 100% certified unlimited bandwidth (3G or 4G).

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

This post is, obviously, talking about people who already own an iPad and now lose the ability to change their data plan as their needs suit them from month to month without losing the ability to have the unlimited data plan.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

It's part of the TOS when you bought the iPad - that is a type of contract.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

As much as i hate to say this, perhaps congress needs to get involved. That is what our government is for, to protect is from garbage like this.

That's what government is supposed to be for. =) Those of us over the age of 5 are aware that the reality of government is very, very different.

And in response to your sig, yes, Booth was a patriot and Lincoln was a power hungry bastard (by his own admission in personal letters to Confederate leaders).

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Fanboys_Suck_Dick]

So you don't download iTunes songs, don't watch Youtube videos, don't download Apps and don't listen to streaming audio? What about your phone data usage would you say qualifies as "pretty extensive"? I checked my iPhone data usage and I use about 1GB a month over the past year. I consider myself a light user because my data is consumed primarily by Email. If I actually used the advertised features of the phone it would be easy to exceed 2GB a month. For now I'm also happy to be saving $5 per month.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[QuantumRiff]

You know.. the thing that bugs me is, if ATT gave a shit for their customers, if you have the $15/200MB plan, and you go over your limit, they would, for that month, charge you the $25 for up to 2GB total. Instead, it looks like they charge you $15 for another 200MB (or $30 for 400MB).

Way to go the high road, just like the airlines..

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lehk228]

you can cut down a regular sim to fit

Re:How is it bait & switch

[DarkBlackFox]

Speculation is that AT&T sanctioned tethering is coming in iPhone/iPhone OS 4. I see this as AT&T preparing for the inevitable onslaught of people who would use an "unlimited" data plan as their primary internet connection. The grandfathered unlimited plan will likely have tethering disabled, while the limited plans would allow it. I use my phone extensively, and I usually end up around 300-400mb/month, and the ability to tether would likely increase that substantially. With the official announcement likely coming early next week at WWDC, it makes sense for AT&T to get this out there now before people rush out to purchase a new phone/plan.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Totenglocke]

The modem also doesn't support frequencies for 3G other than AT&T, so you'd be stuck at EDGE speeds. So you're locked into AT&T, but on paper you're not.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[calmofthestorm]

And this is why I don't mess with carriers or phones that think they have any right to tell me what software I may run on my computer or device.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lunix Nutcase]

Which also says that they can change the terms whenever they want. Basically you still fail.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lunix Nutcase]

Where was such an ability ever guaranteed by AT&T? It certainly wasn't in any contract. Every service provider always has stipulations that one has to agree to that says they can change the terms of service at any point. If you don't agree to these changed terms you can cancel your service. But you can't whine after the fact when you accepted those terms already.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lunix Nutcase]

I never claimed that one couldn't be guilty of a bait-and-switch in absence of a contract. That was someone else. I was only pointing out that if you have no contract with the service provider that says they can't change the terms, they have no obligation to NOT change the terms of your service.

Re:How is it bait & switch

[Lunix Nutcase]

There can still be bait and switch even if there's no contract.

I never made any such claim to the contrary. Maybe you are confusing me with this post?

Re:How is it bait & switch

[sjames]

It is a contract for those who DID buy. For the rest, it's bait and switch. That is, get people excited to buy the product and then when they get there, refuse but offer them a lesser value instead.

It was presented as a benefit of buying the product. Some people bought the product on the strength of that benefit. Now they are told that that cannot, in fact, switch between those plans at will.

Man Emails AT&T's CEO, Gets Threatened With C&

[thedogcow]

Is this site about Unix?
Man Emails AT&T's CEO, Gets Threatened With C&D Order" gets me nowhere.
> Man Emails AT&T's CEO, Gets Threatened With C&D Order
[1] 346
[2] 347
-bash: Ts CEO, Gets Threatened With C&D Order

Man Emails AT&Ts: command not found
-bash: D: command not found
[2]+ Exit 127 T's CEO, Gets Threatened With C&D Order

Man Emails AT&T's CEO, Gets Threatened With C
Home:$ No manual entry for Emails
No manual entry for AT

Flash...

[mikeskup]

[Flash 9 is required to listen to audio.]14,323 plays

Grrrrrrrrrrrr

Re:Flash...

[Kitkoan]

[Flash 9 is required to listen to audio.]14,323 plays

Grrrrrrrrrrrr

AT&T doesn't want it's iPhone and iPad users from hearing that message.

Re:Flash...

[noidentity]

[Flash 9 is required to listen to audio.]14,323 plays

Name ONE other format they could have put the audio into so that it was listenable to almost anyone. Well, er, except .mp3...

Re:Flash...

[Anonymous Coward]

WAV.

WAV and MP3 play on almost everything, including Windows and OS-X, the two systems targeted by Flash.

Sure, Windows + OSX have 99% of the PC market, but by that definition, you might as well choose WMA.

re AT&T

[freddieb]

AT&T is a far cry from the original company (before the Carterphone Decision and the breakup). The company was a national treasure in those days. The customer service (free phones, free replacement phones, the best in the world quality, etc). Bell Labs was the foundation for much of what we have today. It is sad they have disgraced the name. I get 3 to 4 solicitation calls from them each week. The people are probably contractors (they can barely speak english). They will say anything to get you to upgrade your phone/internet, etc. What a mess.

Re:re AT&T

[samkass]

And you'd still be getting those same free rotary-dial phones today to hook up when/if they felt like it, and still need permission from them for each device you connected to your POTS line, once that device type had been cleared with AT&T.

Re:re AT&T

[jackspenn]

Bell Labs isn't part of AT&T (or is it at&t?), whatever.

With things like MOSFET, C, TTL, UNIX, C++, CDMA, etc. it's like Bell Labs made the greatest stuff to come out of New Jersey from the invention of the light bulb up until Bon Jovi.

Re:re AT&T

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

and still need permission from them for each device you connected to your POTS line, once that device type had been cleared with AT&T.

Not only permission, but you get to pay for that connection, monthly, forever. And yes, they had phone police who checked.

Re:re AT&T

[mirix]

The phones were leased, not free. You didn't own it at all. That's why they were built like brick shithouses and only changed design a couple times in a century.

Re:re AT&T

[sauge]

Bell Labs is long gone. Lucent bought it a while ago and it's pretty much dismantled for lack of immediate profitability. A problem with a lot of research these days. At least we have open source.

Re:re AT&T

[mirix]

When ma Bell got split up, Bell labs got stuck under Western Electric (AT&T's manufacturing arm) under the name "AT&T technologies", which was still under what was left of AT&T.
In the mid 90's this got spun off to "Lucent Technologies", so it was then independent.

Then about 5 years ago It got bought out by the French telco "Alcatel", becoming "Alcatel-Lucent".

Transistors, UNIX and C. What more can a guy ask for.

Re:re AT&T

[ClosedSource]

Actually, the introduction of touch-tone phones preceded the break-up of AT&T by over a decade.

Re:re AT&T

[glebovitz]

but it wasn't free, which was the point being made.

Re:re AT&T

[Registered Coward v2]

AT&T is a far cry from the original company (before the Carterphone Decision and the breakup). The company was a national treasure in those days. The customer service (free phones, free replacement phones, the best in the world quality, etc).

I hate to break the news to you, but the phones weren't free. For years there was a lease charge and eventually you could buy your phone. Customer service and line quality was good; but you paid for it in high local access charges as well as long distance. Today, in real dollars, I pay a fraction of what local service used to cost, even excluding the difference in the value of a dollar, and can call anywhere in the US and Canada, as well as parts of Europe with no long distance charge.

ROFLMAO!

[U8MyData]

Beautiful!

Unauthorized

[SilverHatHacker]

It worries me slightly that someone would send out a letter threatening legal action without even considering whether or not they had the authority to do that.
Every day I try to be a little more cynical, but I can't keep up.

Re:Unauthorized

[jimicus]

He didn't send out a letter, he made a phone call.

It's equally likely that a more accurate description would be he no longer has authority to do that.

To all the morons against network neutrality

[unity100]

this is the company to which you are going to entrust control of your internet. enjoy.

Re:To all the morons against network neutrality

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should I care? As a gift, they are offering me a free, totally unlimited, unrestricted Internet connection (plus a bit of cash). So, yes, I do intend to enjoy it.

Yours truly,
      Your elected representative.

Re:To all the morons against network neutrality

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it would have been more productive to direct that remark at everyone, not just the morons.

Re:To all the morons against network neutrality

[/dev/trash]

But see NO one wants PORN and all people do want is to GET THINGS done with expertly created UIs.

Re:To all the morons against network neutrality

[unity100]

sometimes you need to hit people in the head. see, there was at least one person still who was able to downmod it.

haber

[haber-24]

Eywallah Hac.

I dont get it

[lakin]

Frankly I dont see a problem with threatening to cease and desist. He emailed the CEO twice in two weeks, both times threatening to leave if he didnt get what he wanted. The tone of his language seemed worse in the second email and I suspect the exec service agent (who handled both emails) thought he was being called a "$12/hour Executive Relations college student" - not realising the customer meant the usual helpline staff.

I love how he ends his first blog post about this with:
"So in the end, I'm definitely switching to the HTC Evo, and cancelling my iPhone & iPad 3G AT&T services - I don't want to give my money to a company that is bothered by its customers, and threatens them legally to prove it."
I thought he said he was going to leave if they didnt solve his problem anyway!

I guess I just dont get this whole "email the CEO" thing. We keep seeing people getting replies from Steve Jobs (no doubt really from his team) and I have read of people having luck with other big companies. I think the problem would go away if they just stopped answering normal customers emails to the CEO and executives, or at least just replied with the customer service contact details.

Re:I dont get it

[Stiletto]

That's right. How DARE the unwashed masses try to contact a clearly superior human being. The aristocracy should be protected from such riff-raff. Don't you people understand that certain people are just better than others and should not be even looked at--let alone have their judgment questioned--by a "commoner".

Re:I dont get it

[MightyMartian]

I guess I just dont get this whole "email the CEO" thing. We keep seeing people getting replies from Steve Jobs (no doubt really from his team) and I have read of people having luck with other big companies. I think the problem would go away if they just stopped answering normal customers emails to the CEO and executives, or at least just replied with the customer service contact details.

"Dear Mr. Tony Hayward, we, the collective fishermen from the Gulf Coast would like to apologize for taking your life away from you. We realize that you, as a CEO of British Petroleum, have had a hard time what with all these US politicians, sportsmen, fishermen, tourists, vertebrates and invertebrates being a little miffed that your company continues to vomit well in excess of 5,000 barrels a day of poisonous hydrocarbons. You, as a CEO, shouldn't have to surrender your golf game or your wife's Sunday tea just because your company and its subcontractors are poisoning the living shit out of the one of the most economically important strips of water in North America. Please except our humble apologies.

Signed - the people, animals and single-celled life you're wiping out."

Re:I dont get it

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right. How DARE the unwashed masses try to contact a clearly superior human being. The aristocracy should be protected from such riff-raff. Don't you people understand that certain people are just better than others and should not be even looked at--let alone have their judgment questioned--by a "commoner".

If you are stupid enough to think that a CEO in any moderately or better sized company really wants to interact with one of his customers, then you really are stuck in the middle ages. If you aren't into the service, cancel it. Better still, return the dammed gadget. If enough people do that, Apple might just step in to save sales of its leading product.

Re:I dont get it

[defaria]

I'm sorry but here in America you don't have the right not to be offended. We have this thing called freedom of speech (- Look it up) and thus have the right to say whatever the fuck we want. This cease and desist bullshit for speaking your mind is just plain fucking bullshit! I congratulate this guy for doing what he did and will do it myself in a similar situation. Meantime I'm gonna "unsubscribe" this fucking CEO's email address from every unsubscribe link I get in SPAM!

Re:I dont get it

[Totenglocke]

Yea, I had one of Sprint's PR guys (I talked to him directly) complain of people emailing Sprint's CEO over the $10 Evo charge for users in a 3G only area and he said that "it doesn't help anything"..........yes, it does - CEO's are the idiots who make the decisions to do things like this and therefore they are the very ones to harass to get them undone.

Re:I dont get it

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I guess I just dont get this whole "email the CEO" thing. We keep seeing people getting replies from Steve Jobs (no doubt really from his team) and I have read of people having luck with other big companies.

But there are two parts to this. First - someone is frustrated and has nowhere else to turn. Second - the CEO (or whomever) may actually nt know about the practice.

A couple of years ago I got a lemon of a Whirlpool refrigerator. After three trips out by the service company (A&E -- don't ever buy an appliance whose warranty service is done by A&E), and five times ordering the wrong part, and several failed attempts to escalate within A&E... I got annoyed and started doing some digging.

I learned the email of the CEO Whirlpool. I took the time to write out the saga -- including the three refrigerators full of lost food, several days spent waiting for service folks (who were either late, didn't show, or "oops" had the wrong part. Did I mention they get paid for each trip by Whirlpool regardless of whether they fix anything?)...

The result? The CEO sent their general council head an email saying "take care of this, it shouldn't be happening." The general counsel got the right people involved -- people who didn't realize the scam A&E was running. I got a new refrigerator (two tiers up from the one I bought) and some cash. A&E at the very least got a firm speaking to, but I suspect it went a bit further than that. The CEO sent me a note thanking me for raising the issue.

So yeah... I could have just sat at home and whined about how unfair life is and how Whirlpool really sucks. Or I could do about two hours of research to find the right email address, send a well-written email detailing how their customers were being treated (including links to several blogs and forums indicating that my experience was not unique) by their service contractor, and see results.

I think the problem would go away if they just stopped answering normal customers emails to the CEO and executives, or at least just replied with the customer service contact details.

I guess that depends on how you see the "problem" -- if the problem is a whiny customer customer annoying you his petty complaints, I guess that tactic might work. On the other hand if the problem is that your customers are being treated poorly by the company you're putatively in charge of-- well no, that problem won't go away if you ignore it. It will just get worse.

Re:I dont get it

[MerlynEmrys67]

Ah lack of understanding of the constitutions amendments strikes again...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Where in that text do you see something that says AT&T can not tell you to stop being a jerk to their CEO. Where in there does it say that Slashdot is required to keep your post showing, where does it say that you are allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater.

All it says is that CONGRESS can not pass laws that abridge your right to speech. If you are talking poorly in my house - I have every right to ask you to leave.

Next

Re:I dont get it

[MemoryDragon]

Problem with all this was that BP outsourced the drilling to a subcontractor, this is a thing which is not really often mentioned in the news, so theoretically BP did not fuck it up but the subcontractor which was specialized on drilling. Not that I want to defend BP here, but this is a thing which should be mentioned more often.

Re:I dont get it

[Anonymous Coward]

I have some of his tar balls. I'd like to return them. Where do I send them?

Re:I dont get it

[Hurricane78]

I’m a virus, you insensitive clod!

Re:I dont get it

[jimicus]

I guess I just dont get this whole "email the CEO" thing. We keep seeing people getting replies from Steve Jobs (no doubt really from his team) and I have read of people having luck with other big companies. I think the problem would go away if they just stopped answering normal customers emails to the CEO and executives, or at least just replied with the customer service contact details.

Shit flows much faster downhill than it does uphill.

FWIW, I think this guy could have worded his email a little more diplomatically - I've contacted MDs offices before now (never actually spoken to the MD, but have spoken to his secretary once or twice) and if you're calm, polite, explain that you're sorry to bother them but you're experiencing an issue and that while you don't make a habit of contacting the MD you can't think of any other way to get it resolved, you almost always get a call back with exactly what you asked for very quickly indeed. But I do sympathise with the general gist of what he's saying, and any senior exec whose team can't handle getting snotty emails - either directly or CC'd in - needs a new team.

I actually think it probably does a lot of companies good to get the occasional call like that - so many senior execs seem to be totally unaware of what a complete mess their company has become that with any luck it'll shake them up a bit. If you're an ardent, dyed in the wool capitalist, think of it as a friendly warning before the free market starts to exert a not-so-friendly warning.

Re:I dont get it

[Anonymous Coward]

Take away the sarcasm and I agree with your post word-for-word. I probably earn more than 95% of the US population, and I have a much higher social status than the average person on the street. I got to where I am because of my upbringing, my intellect, and the fact that I've made good decisions throughout my life. To say that I'm not clearly a superior human being would be false modesty on my part, and transparent, bitter resentment on yours. Some people are better than others, get over it. What gives you the right to take up any of my time, or to hold my attention, for no matter how fleetingly? One of the rewards for getting where I am today is that I get to dictate the terms of any interactions I have with people lower than me. I commend AT&T for using their legal muscle to remind people like you that you have no right to our attention, and that harassment will not be tolerated.

not just about the Ipad

[Widowwolf]

You do realize this isn't just because of the IPAD but also for all those users that will want the brand new Iphone 4G that will be announced last week. There is a reason they did it effective prior to June 7th(Iphone 4G announcement), because to get discount you will need to sign up for a new contract and with that they will move you to the new data plans, instead of being grandfathered in. That is unless you pay full price for the phone without a contract..

Apple?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this filed under Apple?

Re:Apple?

[gyrogeerloose]

Why is this filed under Apple?

It goes like this: Although the story has nothing at all to do with Apple, one of the Slashdot editors decided it would get more page views from both Apple fanboys and haters if it was posted as if it did.

It's all about page hits, my friend, all about page hits.

Re:Apple?

[Mark19960]

Try reading.
The guy was complaining about iPhone stuff, tethering on his iPhone, etc etc.
Since AT&T is the 'only' provider of service for iWidgets that makes this an apple story too.

And it's actually filed under 4 categories, not just Apple.

Re:Apple?

[virtualXTC]

Why is this filed under Apple?

It goes like this: Although the story has nothing at all to do with Apple, one of the Slashdot editors decided it would get more page views from both Apple fanboys and haters if it was posted as if it did.

It's all about page hits, my friend, all about page hits.

...or maybe because AT&T, though some sort of anti-trust loophole, is the exclusive carrier for many Apple products. Therefore, if either company farts, they both get to smell it.

Re:Apple?

[xs650]

Anyone who was going to buy an iMaxipad for heavy day use that hears about this will have second thoughts. So even for Apple, this is an Apple issue.

Apple shouldn't have locked in with a douchbag company, although douchbag and iMaxiPad do go together.

Re:Apple?

[gyrogeerloose]

I did read the story and still maintain that this is not an Apple story. It's a story about AT&T's poor treatment of a customer who complained about the service he's getting. The fact that the customer happened to be using equipment manufactured by Apple on the AT&T wireless network is tangental at best.

My opinion remains that only reason for Slashdot to bring Apple into the topic at all is to increase page hits.

Re:Apple?

[Lars T.]

Anyone who was going to buy an iMaxipad for heavy day use that hears about this will have second thoughts. So even for Apple, this is an Apple issue. Apple shouldn't have locked in with a douchbag company, although douchbag and iMaxiPad do go together.

The use of the term "iMaxipad" probably explains why the fuck you don't know that the iPad isn't exclusive to AT&T in any way.

Re:Apple?

[0100010001010011]

Makes about as much sense as Microsoft replying to Google's comment about dropping Windows being filed under Apple.

Re:Apple?

[LoudMusic]

I completely agree with you, and it seems to be happening quite a lot, not just here but other news aggregators as well. The faux-geek culture is eat up with Apple and the industry is milking their attention for every penny they can squeeze out of it.

Re:Apple?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pshya, Why read when it takes less effort to react?

Re:Apple?

[UnknowingFool]

I did read the original emails and the guy complains about the (1) increase in AT&T's cancellation fee, (2) the change in AT&T's data plan fee and structure, (3) the lack of tethering. Other than the guy having an iPhone and an iPad, this is more a story about AT&T. Other than the iPad part, the guy could have been complaining about his Blackberry and it would have been the same.

Re:Apple?

[wye43]

It's not an Apple story, it's a AT&T story. And cut the crap with "Try reading", smuggy!

Indeed, it is like AT&T doesn't have Android p

[Technomancer]

Because Motorola Backflip they have is such a lame excuse for a phone that it doesn't count.
I doubt this will change significantly while they have iPhone exclusivity.
And if they will ever have any good phone they will definitely spoil it with installing their AT&T crapware. If anyone thinks that preloaded software on PCs is bad, they have never seen crap that AT&T installs on their phones.

One person

[scottwilkins]

Amazing how one person in a company can affect the whole company. One AT&T employee decided on his own to make this threat. Most likely he is looking for a new job tonight. Also, the "Bait and Switch" was nothing of the kind. Anyone who signed up for the old $30 plan can still keep it. So, without a real "switch" it's not a bait and switch now is it?

Actually, the fluffy bunnies, rainbows

[ClosedSource]

and unicorns got blown away in the wind. They just don't make straw objects like they used to.

No, it was a republic senator

[ClosedSource]

I grow weary hearing "democrat party" instead of the proper phrase "democratic party". Of course, it's members of the republic party who are at fault.

Re:No, it was a republic senator

[Eryq]

I grow weary hearing "democrat party" instead of the proper phrase "democratic party". Of course, it's members of the republic party who are at fault.

The wingnuts learned the phrase "democrat party" by listening to Rush Limbaugh -- you know: the OxyContin-junkie radio host that they all worship. Apparently, when a wingnut says "democrat party" it's supposed to make Democrats mad or something. Beats me. I think it's cute, in a pathetic sort of way. Like when a five-year-old calls you a "poopy head" and thinks they've scored a victory or something.

Re:No, it was a republic senator

[VisceralLogic]

I grow weary hearing "democrat party" instead of the proper phrase "democratic party". Of course, it's members of the republic party who are at fault.

It's just keeping the same word case. I.e., "Republicans" are members of the "Republican party," so "Democrats" would be members of the "Democrat party." Either that, or members of the "Democratic party" would be "Democratics."

Did you read his email? It was pretty abusive.

[tlambert]

Did you read his email? It was pretty abusive.

The email contents are on the voice recording page link.

If someone sends you abusive email, and has a history of sending you email, so that you have no expectation he's going to stop any time soon, and the level of abuse in the email has been escalating, then a C&D is probably a pretty reasonable response from a public person like the AT&T CEO.

I'm not saying I like the change AT&T made to cap their data plans, rather than fix their network, any more than anyone else does, but between the two parties involved, the response from AT&T was a lot less rude than the email.

-- Terry

Re:Did you read his email? It was pretty abusive.

[Rogerborg]

the response from AT&T was a lot less rude than the email.

And the email was a lot less rude than AT&T's bait-and-switch. Abusive actions speak a lot louder than words.

Re:Did you read his email? It was pretty abusive.

[rm999]

Learn your facts. There was no bait and switch, the changes only affect new customers.

Existing customers now have *the option* to pay less per month if they stay under 2 GB. I don't know anyone who uses more than 800 MB of 3G a month.

Re:Did you read his email? It was pretty abusive.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

You seriously think that's an abusive email? The closest he came to profanity was "crappy". He displays some frustration tbs. But I don't see anything in that letter, were it sent to me, that would cause me to reach for my lawyer for protection.

Re:Did you read his email? It was pretty abusive.

[Jerry Rivers]

Because I don't subscribe to cable, I stream a butt load of 3G data over Sprint (mostly via Slingbox), but I have only gone over 5GB once. I would easily pass 2GB. So there are those of us who use "unlimited" to its full potential.

Re:Did you read his email? It was pretty abusive.

[rm999]

It is far harder on the system to use a cell tower as your primary internet source than a wire going into your apartment. This pricing change happened exactly because of the inefficiencies that some people introduce.

Re:Did you read his email? It was pretty abusive.

[Rogerborg]

Oh, pfft to you. AT&T will just lower the SUPAR SEKRIT acceptable usage cap until they've kicked everyone off the "unlimited" plan. A child could see it coming.

at least he gets free food in jail!

[Joe The Dragon]

at least he gets free food in jail!

Don't you dare ever...

[Nick Driver]

...tell the Emperor that his new clothes are fake and that he's actually stark raving naked or you will get your head chopped off.

Re:Indeed, it is like AT&T doesn't have Androi

[HeronBlademaster]

If anyone thinks that preloaded software on PCs is bad, they have never seen crap that AT&T installs on their phones.

The thing that bothered me most about my last phone (a Samsung w580i) was not the shareware-like games and other apps they preinstalled on it, it was that the web browser is accessible from a easy-to-bump button on the keypad, and the phone doesn't bother asking you "are you sure you want to spend $0.01 per KB to access an auto-refreshing webpage?" when the button somehow gets bumped in your pocket.

The phone also includes several "password-lock this program" settings, but the web browser is not one of the things that can be locked.

They can disable data on your line, which solves the problem, except then you can't send or receive MMS messages (even if you have the "unlimited picture and text messaging" package which includes unlimited MMS messages).

So you're hosed either way.

At least the iPhone doesn't come with any pre-loaded AT&T software - they don't even bundle the quite handy myWireless app or the equally handy (from AT&T's perspective) "Mark the Spot" app, both of which I would not have objected to them bundling at all. I guess I'm saying Apple has done quite well at keeping AT&T from digging their claws too deep.

Wow incredible

[al0ha]

That is really incredible. Not to say Time Warner is any better than any of the others, but I was having a recurring data network problem that was no fault of my own, and had a hard time convincing the trained monkeys in customer service of the facts. I finally became so fed up with the run-around I emailed the CEO. The response was terrific, people were really jumping to fix my problem, I was very impressed. Sorry to see AT&T choose an alternative route for legitimate complaint resolution.

Bait and Switch?

[by (1706743)]

There's an app for that.

I know, I know, -1 Troll, -1 Flamebait...

Grain of Salt

[Anonymous Coward]

I would take what defendant claims with a grain of salt here.

I would want to see the email contents before getting outraged.

From your FA

'He's particularly alarmed because he's already got a criminal record: In 1995, he and his girlfriend pleaded guilty to 35 burglaries in Bucks County, Pa. The Philadelphia Daily News dubbed them "Bonnie & Clyde": "Their last embrace came in their Northeast Philadelphia apartment. Cops with a warrant did some breaking in of their own and caught the couple, well, coupling -- surrounded by half the booty they'd burgled." '

Shut up. All of you.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are nothing more than corporate serfs. You'll take what give you (OK, sell you) and like it. It's not like you have a ready choice in a free market now, is it?

Re:Indeed, it is like AT&T doesn't have Androi

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

At least the iPhone doesn't come with any pre-loaded AT&T software...

I got my girlfriend an HTC Fuze (Windows Mobile phone) and she started using Yahoo Instant Messenger on it. The phone bill was $20 higher than expected. Upon inspection I discovered that, by default, the Messenger was using SMS messages to ferry the data back and forth. I did a Google search for the number that the texts come from and found a number of messages from people on forums wondering if that phone number is a sign that their significant others are cheating on them. Heh.

What was the email?

[Theaetetus]

This story was cross-posted at Fark.com also, and everyone immediately launches into a discussion of how awful AT&T is...

... and yet, we've never seen the email the guy sent. He hasn't posted it, and Gizmodo merely describes it as:

a complaint about AT&T's new data rates. Nothing crazy about either of those.

Was it just a complaint? If so, why hasn't he posted it? Or was it a bunch of swears, insults, and threats, like we've come to expect from most anonymous people on the internet?

It's a bit tough to claim the high, noble road when you're hiding your actions.

Re:What was the email?

[caranha]

Way to fail by not RTFA'ing.

http://attepicfail.tumblr.com/

Re:What was the email?

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to fail by not RTFA'ing.

http://attepicfail.tumblr.com/

From his blog: "Many people have been saying ‘well we don’t have the whole story, where’s the first email’?"

So apparently, I was completely right, and he's now remedied the oversight.

Re:Indeed, it is like AT&T doesn't have Androi

[HeronBlademaster]

The Samsung w580i does Yahoo (and MSN) via SMS messages too, but a) it sucks so I only used it briefly, and b) I had unlimited texting...

Don't send emails to:

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, and don’t email this guy

Unauthorized?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like if the CEO did it it was authorized.

Re:Indeed, it is like AT&T doesn't have Androi

[z0idberg]

Or maybe your lady is cheating on you with the same guy!

I just emailed their CEO too.

[Lord Kano]

I just emailed him a link to the Wikipedia page on the Streisand Effect.

These are his email addresses.
rs2982@att.com
randall.stephenson@att.com

I wonder if they'll respond to me too.

LK

Re:Indeed, it is like AT&T doesn't have Androi

[Anonymous Coward]

That's my number. I swear she didn't have a ring on.

The C&D gave a glimpse the true AT&T

[anonymouse23]

AT&T doesn't give a damn about you or anything else, they just care about money. The C&D order was intentional and authorized, I'm sure. Otherwise it wouldn't have been issued. They only "apologized" after they saw that the public reacted the way that the did. The AT&T CEO is the very same one who proposed the idea of a tiered internet and also said something along the lines of "we own all of the lines and they're going to have to pay us for them" in order to make money off every packet of information flowing through their routers. Don't kid yourselves... AT&T/Cingular is as greedy as they come. Anony

Democrat Party

[gd2shoe]

It's actually much simpler than that. The party is not about Democracy any more than the GOP is about the Republic. They (and the Republicans) are about their members and holding power. As their members are called Democrats, it is only natural refer to them colloquially as the Democrat Party. It is even easier to make this mistake if someone is a member of the Republican Party. It's not meant pejoratively. It's just a tini-tiny mistake (and not one that matters).

Re:Democrat Party

[drinkypoo]

Let's just call them the "fuck you on even days party" and the "fuck you on odd days party". They can trade names every four years.

Sounds like grounds for a suit to me.

[Ozlanthos]

If this guy has any balls, he'll take it to court! The only reason crap like this happens at all is that we the consumers have failed time and time again to stand up and face these assholes! So what if you fail, at least the case gets the attention it deserves, and reduces the likelihood that the corporations will act with such impunity in the future!

-Oz

Re:Sounds like grounds for a suit to me.

[aristotle-dude]

If this guy has any balls, he'll take it to court! The only reason crap like this happens at all is that we the consumers have failed time and time again to stand up and face these assholes! So what if you fail, at least the case gets the attention it deserves, and reduces the likelihood that the corporations will act with such impunity in the future! -Oz

Which law firm do you work for? You guys are like sharks swimming in the water when they smell blood.

Suing should be the last resort because ultimately, corporations almost always win and lawsuits cause the prices that companies charge to go up. Only the lawyers come out as winners.

Re:Sounds like grounds for a suit to me.

[Ozlanthos]

So what, teams of top-notch lawyers cost lots and lots of money! Enough law suits (even ones they win) and they may look at the cost/benefit of continuing to abuse their customers in a whole new light! -Oz

Re:Sounds like grounds for a suit to me.

[aristotle-dude]

So what, teams of top-notch lawyers cost lots and lots of money! Enough law suits (even ones they win) and they may look at the cost/benefit of continuing to abuse their customers in a whole new light! -Oz

Wrong. The only way to change things is to lobby the government to make changes through regulation or create a groundswell in the customer base to complain and threaten to cancel on masse. The latter scenario is even less likely given the apathy of the average consumer.

Apple? WTF?

[Rational]

Why the christ is this filed under "Apple"?

Re:Apple? WTF?

[stewbacca]

Because the slashdot audience needs a new Microsoft to bitch about?

Re:Indeed, it is like AT&T doesn't have Androi

[ultranova]

The thing that bothered me most about my last phone (a Samsung w580i) was not the shareware-like games and other apps they preinstalled on it, it was that the web browser is accessible from a easy-to-bump button on the keypad, and the phone doesn't bother asking you "are you sure you want to spend $0.01 per KB to access an auto-refreshing webpage?" when the button somehow gets bumped in your pocket.

Never has "it's not a bug, it's a feature" been more appropriate.

Also, back in my day malicious dialers were written by criminals rather than phone companies. I guess that's decisive prove that crime does pay...

Not bait & switch, but...

[geoffrobinson]

I used to work for Kabletown with a K, not as an installer but in a group that helped plan for future capacity needs. Nothing was explicitly said, but we were all of the belief that no higher up would care if our highest users left for a competitor. Those small percentage of people were responsible for a large amount of costs.

I'm pretty sure that's all AT&T have in mind. And in actuality, the changes aren't going to affect many. And for those it does affect, they don't care.

It's because the rightwingnuts aren't in charge

[Anonymous Coward]

It's because the rightwingnuts aren't in charge any more. When "their" guy was in, they were fine. When "their" guy lost, it's all "too much government!".

[citation needed]

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of us "leftists" didn't want to leave the Union. Most of us held our nose and lived with Bush, protesting his (harmful) policy choices, and worked to install a grass-roots organization that would Get Out The Vote, registered more democrats, and attempted to primary conservative democrats to replace them with progressives.

See, what most of us did was work within the democratic confines of our country and attempt to change it.

And you know what? We're doing a pretty good job. The wack-a-loons on the Right though, you're just spouting rhetoric and threats like "I'm taking my ball and going home!" like fucking babies.

Wahhhhh sedition! Lowest tax burden in almost 50 years and people cry about taxes. Fucking irrational, nitwit low information voters who don't know shit about shit except they hate niggers. Fucking sick of all of you.

Re:[citation needed]

[MindlessAutomata]

How cute. He's bought into Obama's divisive rhetoric, thinks either of us are conservatives, and actually thinks you can become free by doing the king's bidding.

Have to back this up

[Benfea]

I don't personally have experience with Comcast, I only know the horror stories I hear from friends. I can however corroborate that Wide Open West has bangup support. They still have strange and stupid problems with their service like most other ISPs, but their tech support people are generally more helpful.

Re:Indeed, it is like AT&T doesn't have Androi

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if you block data, expect to be charged for data. I finally finished a 2 year contract in February with two lines and despite having it blocked for those two years, 20 our of the 24 months I had data charges. After 9 years with AT&T wireless (well AT&T, Cingular, then back to AT&T), I ditched them for Straight Talk. Shitty phones, but unlimited talk and text (technically web, but they're to shitty to bother with web on) for $45 a month.