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California To Drop State Rock Over Asbestos Concerns
Diamonddavej writes "The LA Times reports that Californian legislators are close to dropping the translucent green rock Serpentine as the state rock of California because of its tenuous association with chrysotile asbestos. Sen. Gloria Romero declares in her bill (SB 624) that Serpentine should be dropped as California's state rock because it 'contains the deadly mineral chrysotile asbestos, a known carcinogen, exposure to which increases the risk of the cancer mesothelioma.' The bill has backing from mesothelioma support groups. Critics point out that Serpentine is a group of 20 different minerals, and Californian Serpentine rarely contains much chrysotile, never mind its dangerous fibrous asbestos form. Its is suspected that lawyers involved in asbestos compensation claims and cleanup companies will profit from the bill. Vast tracts of California where bedrock is made of Serpentine could be declared hazardous to health... even if it contains no crysotile at all! It looks like SB 624 will be passed; it won unanimous bi-partisan support from an Assembly committee last week."
Rock on.
There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
Beaten by my iPhone 3G. Can you feel the burn? Oh yes.
And I even snuck in a PUN! FP with humor!
There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
California has a State rock.
Even their state rock is known by the state of California to cause cancer.
If California ever decided to do some research like the New England Journal of Medicine they would find articles all the back to the late 1980's showing that this type of asbestos is not cancerious. The other funny thing is the "doctor" in the 1960's who said that cancer was bad wasn't even a doctor but researching someone's background is a lot harder than just gining into some idiot. If they are banning this rock maybe we should ban dihydrogen monoxide I hear that kills thousnads of people every year.
I had a pet rock. It wasn't as maintenance-free as you'd expect.
Also, is this part of the Daily Mail's efforts to categorise all known substances/things/ideas into those that cause and those that cure cancer?
I find it amusing that a state rock even exists, let alone the fact that it's causing such a ruckus! You Americans!
*ruffles hair*
... Dihydrogen Monoxide.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Why is it that every time I read the words "Unanimous bi-partisan support", the result is always and without exception... Trouble?
Isn't ALL rock hazardous to your health if you breathe it?
crazy dynamite monkey
Maybe they should just put warning labels on all the rocks. "Serpentine, the state rock of California, contains substances known to the state of California to cause cancer".
I thought California was bankrupt or something. But I guess this is the biggest problem.
Seriously, what the hell is the point of having a state anything? They got birds, fish, various rodents or whatever the fuck.
Can them all and save us the time of ever having to debate this shit.
..while California doesn't even have a budget. This isn't their job.
As a non-american i have to ask, What the hell kind of insane place has a 'state rock'? IT'S A ROCK!! Is the state so well run that this is the kind of nonsense they need to have legislation for? Do they have nothing better to do than designate 'state $inanimateobject'?! If that's the case fire them and spend their wages on something useful. What the hell is going on with the world?
Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does designating something as the state rock cause it to give people cancer? PS: The state rock of Utah is coal which has led to more than 100000 deaths and injuries due to mining (never mind the air pollution issue...).
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
...why CA is so screwed up.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
*cue image of evil looking guy sneaking up on unsuspecting California assembly-person holding large green rock in a menacing fashion*
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
There's been a lot of fraud around asbestos. Recently it's also transferred to silica dust somewhat. It is based in truth, because asbestosis and silicosis are real dangers, but lawyers have committed real fraud with it. In some lawsuits, the same people who were made sick and diagnosed with asbestosis were later diagnosed by the same doctors with silicosis for a different lawsuit. Here is that story. Here are some other lawyers who were recently convicted for fraud with asbestos cases.
Lawyers are one of the biggest areas of fraud and corruption the US right now. In a lot of states, the attorney general sets up a pay-to-play system where they get kickbacks to let certain law firms handle certain legal issues (or even pursue cases that normally would be ignored). In other cases, lawyer lobby organizations try to get laws written in vague ways that will require extra legal work, or as in this case, create potential lawsuits where there doesn't seem to even be danger.
Qxe4
Well, I guess the CA legislature needs some distraction from their complete and utter incompetence and stupidity with regards to the budget, spending, and tax revenue for their state.
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
The people who run California are doing a terrible job. The 2010 budget is 20.7 billion dollars in debt. If we returned to a part-time legislator then they wouldn't have enough time to come up with crazy ideas like this. Unfortunately the California Part-Time Legislature Initiative (09-0031) will not be on the November 2, 2010 state ballot. The petition drive deadline for the measure was March 29, and organizers did not turn in signatures by that date. You can find out more information on how we can pass this in 2011 at http://www.reformcal.com/
...is this really a matter of pressing urgency in California? Wouldn't working towards plugging the state budget gap be a better use of the CA Legislation's time?
I know what you're thinking. Did I forward 65,535 packets or 65,536 packets?
Just keep voting that way and you'll get more of the same.
Just another nail in the coffin of intelligence, just goes to show how the politicians are getting dumber every year. I feel sorry for Californians that have to pay taxes to support such idiots and their retarded bills.
Whatever you do, don't let them know that Cyanide is made of carbon and nitrogen. It could spell the end of California!
Actually, on second thought...what the hell, let's tell 'em and see what happens!
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Surely there are more important issues.
The minor one of what to do about the imminent bankruptcy of the US's largest single state economy, and the worlds 8th largest economy springs to mind, but maybe this is more critical.
Actually, translucent, green, are we sure this isn't a blatant ad to invite Superman to give up his Arctic home, and move to the Golden State? That would definitely bring in tourists, and that could solve the budget crisis. Brilliant thinking there....
...Paper still covers Rock.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
... they could always make it crack.
Have gnu, will travel.
Fools Gold seems appropriate for California these days.
To anyone wondering why the state is in so much financial trouble perhaps this story will explain why. Most state legislatures have their heads up their own asses. In California they can see daylight and teeth.
Don't believe him. He obviously works for them.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
In other related news, Sarah Palin and her army of professional teabaggers demanded an alternative bill be considered that would redesignate asbestos as a childhood nutrient.
This last session here in Washington State, some idiot tried to pass a bill that would change the words "At risk children" in all laws, state documents, etc... to "Children at Hope". She even wrote pleading editorials on the subject. All this while we were facing a huge (and still are) budge deficit, declining revenue, and all the other associated evils of the recession. But do these kinds of idiots get voted out? Oh no. The wrong lizard might win instead.
California is crazy. People are fond of making fun of places like Arkansas, Alabama, and Mississippi, but at least they don't spend their time passing stupid crap like this into law.
Who exactly was drunk enough to come up with the idea of a state rock in the first place?
You sometimes wonder if this should be a part time gig for these guys. :( Yea!, my tax dollars at work. :(
Incredible that folks can make an issue out of absolutely nothing and get pumped up by the media for it. Obviously, the 21st century interpretation of "Pet Rock" (trademark belongs to someone somewhere) involves inert matter and lawyers (or is that another type of inert matter).
California has a state rock and people are concerned about it.
After all, everything in California causes cancer.
Took the words right out of my mouth. According to Wikipedia, the following state insignia exist: amphibian, beverage, bird, butterfly, color, crustacean, dance, dinosaur, fish, flag, flower, food, fossil, grass, insect, instrument, license plate, mammal, mineral, motto, nickname, poem, poet laureate, reptile, route marker, seal, shell, ship, slogan, soil, song, sport, tartan, toy and tree.
OK, I can understand flag, license plate, motto, route marker and seal. I can understand the nickname (although why it's apparently official is beyond me). I probably could understand the slogan if I knew how it differs from a motto.
But the rest? I mean... grass? Tartan? Crustacean? I'm not from the USA, so can somebody explain to me what the point of these is?
Re: dihydrogen monoxide - I hear that it is the principal cause of drowning...
Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
"...this type of asbestos is not cancerious."
One: it's spelled cancerous, not cancerious.
Two: Cancerous means being a cancer - e.g. "that lump on your lip is cancerous". By definition, no rock is cancerous (unless it is on a Horta or other silicon based life form, I guess - currently a moot point).
To be capable of causing cancer is to be carcinogenic.
Of course, the rock in question isn't carcinogenic as well as not being "cancerious".
... the example of what happens when you don't have any meaningful requirements to be a voter.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
The same legislature can't even pass a budget. Some how they can find time to debate the various pros and cons of the state rock, but they can't pass a budget. I swear that politicians are a layer of middle management that need to be downsized out of the system. We can call it an efficiency improvement.
I thought everything caused cancer in California.
While your second point is spot-on, this is incorrect: cancerious denotes something that is seriously cancerous.
Actually, chrysotile is not a proven carcinogen. It is a suspected carcinogen, and its toxicity is at worst rather low. There are many forms of asbestos, only a handful have been linked to mesothelioma by solid evidence, but the plaintiff's attorneys try to exaggerate it to "a single fiber of any asbestos could theoretically cause cancer." I'm not kidding; I've heard that from an attorney.
The Environmental Working Group cites 2,509 deaths from mesothelioma per year. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration cites, in 2008 alone, 34,107 fatal crashes, which sent 26,689 people to their own funeral.
According to the California Office of Traffic Safety there were 3,995 fatalities from car crashes in 2008 alone. More people die in car accidents in one year in California than nationally from mesothelioma.
Do these pesky politicians actually think they're doing good with laws like these? How do people like Sen. Gloria Romero prioritize risk and public safety?
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
Grizzly bears kill people, too.
I have a suggestion for an alternative all natural, eco-friendly solution: Coprolite
It even fits well given the politics of California.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
The federal government is considering outlawing douches, due to the fact that so many Californians are douches. There is fear that repeated douchings may be the cause of the douches in that once great state.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
If ever there was an example of shallow, inane, uncritical and utterly monochrome thinking, this is it. The thinking of this elected representative has gone somthing like this:
Asbestos is bad. Rock is associated in some way with Asbestos. Therefore rock is bad. Ban rock.
Students of basic logic/philosophy may weep, but this is not only the thinking of the representative, but also of a substantial portion of the California electorate and indeed the electorate throughout the western world. This pantomime logic characterizes many of the reasons for why California in particular is the way it is. Politicians and voters who are opinionated, vocal and hubristic, yet simultaneously uncritical, gullible and capricious.
To compound matters Californians decided that this irresponsible electorate should have the ability to override any and all other checks and balances in the state, from the courts to the government to the civil service. And they did; and the state is all but a wreck as a result. This is what comes from placing the will of the people on a pedestal.
The old Greek theory divided governments into three basic forms; rule by the people, rule by a select group, and rule by a single person. What's often forgotten is that each of the three forms had both virtues and vices. A single dictator might be cruel, but could also be a decisive leader. Similarly, the people could rule for the benefit of all, but they could also degenerate into rule by the mob or by demagogues. The western form of Government is(really was) an attempt to blend all three governments; a lower house and referendums to represent the people, a largely appointed upper house to represent select groups, and a single president/kind to represent a single person.
The Californians have forsaken these lessons and history by giving all power to the people and allowing no other checks and balances. If nothing else, the state is a textbook case of what happens when a state loses balance in its form of government.
May the Maths Be with you!
Re: dihydrogen monoxide - I hear that it is the principal cause of drowning...
It can also kill you if you drink too much of it. People have also been crushed by it in frozen form. You can avoid drowning by avoiding immersion, you can drink only beer, but for purposes of bathing regularly, unless you are quite well off or are content with just sponge bathing, even the cheapest beer is too expensive. As with so many things, it is the poor who suffer most.
Loose lips lose spit.
If California ever decided to do some research like the New England Journal of Medicine they would find articles all the back to the late 1980's showing that this type of asbestos is not cancerious. The other funny thing is the "doctor" in the 1960's who said that cancer was bad wasn't even a doctor but researching someone's background is a lot harder than just gining into some idiot. If they are banning this rock maybe we should ban dihydrogen monoxide I hear that kills thousnads of people every year.
It's well established (search PubMed) that chrysotile asbestos is carcinogenic, though not nearly to the degree amphibole asbestos fibers are (lung cancer from chrysotile is most strongly correlated with sustained, industrial exposure). Chrysotile exposure is only weakly correlated with mesothelioma.
What is ridiculous about California's impending law is that not all serpentine is comprised of chrysotile. Based on the available data, it would be reasonable to conjecture that there are dozens if not hundreds of anthropogenic chemicals that cause cancer at the same rate chrysotile does. Better get busy CA legislature!
When it gets really hot in Cali we sometimes find our men with no skin and hanging from their feet. But things are better now our Governor can handle that problem all by himself!
So the state of California itself may cause cancer? Seems fitting...
-Xoltri
I live in CA, with some of my property on exposed serpentine. I therefore, have to pay extra taxes to California any time I want to dig. The more serpentine, the more money the government receives. These laws are so easy they practically write themselves. Also, it is proposed that the earth's mantle is comprised almost entirely of serpentine (iron/magnesium/silicon), so I suspect these taxes will soon arrive at a county near you. --edfardos
The pussification of the state and the country continues - nothing to see here. :(
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
Maybe californians should stop being such a bunch of candy assed weenie whackers and find something productive to do with their time. Like incite flamewars on slashdot to give the pussy moderators something worth modding down instead of spending mod points promoting their personal agenda.
So do real doctors say that cancer isn't bad?
Of course, like all American legislation, just follow the money.
Like most American legislation, it has nothing to do with the public good, it has everything to do with greed and corruption.
Seems like a large part of the problem has been the prevalence of referendums, rather than laws passed by the legislature. No one votes to raise taxes and everyone votes to create a new program to save the rattlesnakes or whatever. There is a reason we have a representative democracy, we can't all be expected to be informed on every issue or bill. We aren't even supposed to worry so much about whether we agree with the positions a politician takes, but rather whether we think they are keeping themselves informed and are honest and difficult to corrupt. If we all voted for honest and intelligent people that have the talent of spotting when they are being BSed, then we would see change. Instead we let ourselves be manipulated by dishonest and intelligent people, who use issues we don't fully understand to convince us to vote for them or their bill that reaches into our pockets. The problem is scale. How can you tell if that guy on TV is honest using sound bytes? The only solution I can think of is a hierarchical vote sort of like super voters at party conventions, but that still isn't a very good one.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Eh, I doubt money has anything to do with this. Choosing a new 'state rock' will not get the current one declared toxic.
Concerned parents demand removal of Arsenic from Periodic Table of Elements
http://www.theonion.com/audio/concerned-parents-demand-removal-of-arsenic-from-p,13863/
Sometimes the difference between reality and The Onion's headlines becomes rather vague...
"And in other news, California has been legislated as unhealthy. More on this after our report on the dangers of children's playgrounds. Over to you Bob."
...only fools rely on Wikipedia.
According to the LA times article, the state mineral is gold! Do they know that gold is a heavy metal, and as poisonous as lead? (Yes alright, I know it has get into your blood in soluble form or something, and that is a bit difficult to manage, but if it did happen, it would be poisonous).
with an "IOU". After all, they've done it with everything else.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
The state animal will be changed from the Grizzly Bear to the newt over bear attack concerns.
The state dance will be changed from West-Coast Swing dancing to the Drunk Uncle Shuffle over swing dance accident concerns.
Srsly. Are there any geologists here who can suggest a rock that isn't dangerous to breathe? Oh, and is this the same state that has just reduced state-workers pay to minimum wage? Did you guys not learn from the last time you elected an actor to public office? Hell in a handbasket.
which is also in sulfuric acid, which is hazardous to your health, so sulfur should be illegal, and therefore fools gold should be illegal
also, iron is in steel, which is used in battleships, which are used to kill people, so that should be illegal too
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Don't be fooled! Most brands of beer contain dihydrogen monoxide in large amounts.
I recommend to limit your drinking and bathing to vegetable oils which have been shown to keep the hazardous substance away. Some brands of vodka keep their dihidrogen monoxide level low and may be safe to drink and bathe though but most use it to 'cut' their products.
nobody understands that they FORCE FEED the state rock to elementary school students here. its horrible, passing it off as captain crunch. they sprinkle powered asbestos on it as sugar. thank god somebody is doing something about this.
Though the seeds do not contain opium like other types of poppies, if smoked, it still gives a mild sedative buzz. While they are getting rid of asbestos that doesn't cause cancer, California should also get rid of poppies that don't contain opium. Makes just as much sense.
Could do something so stupid.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Real doctors don't say it is, chrysotile is not canerous at all and when a person applies it all they need to wear is a face mask as a general precaution, once applied it is harmless to the people of the building. The canerous type is amphibole. If you get a chance you might want to read the book Eco-Freaks by John Berlau, he covers asbestos as well as some other things we have banned that were never bad in the first place but had idiots who know nothing about it say they are bad for us and the enviroment.
The "doctor's" name was Irving Selikoff.
The unofficial responses to which are:
Which is less hot? (tourist)
Which is hotter? (local)
Which is better today? (foodie)
On the side. (wimp)
Christmas! (wiseass)
It was yellow when I went through it, officer,
and three other cars came through behind me! (local)
The question:
Red or Green? (chile, not political affiliation.)
Serpentine!
So we can't get the legislator to pass a budget so that State employees won't end up getting federal minimum wage, but we can vote on this? Great.
Why is this modded troll? I live in California, I can attest to the accuracy of the claim.
Warning! This Rock Contains Chemicals Known To The State of California To Cause Cancer and Birth Defects Or Other Reproductive Harm. A Brochure With More Information On Specific Chemical Exposures Is Available Inside The Rock.
Say out loud: I'm an Aspie and I'm somewhat proud, I guess. Uh. Can I write an email in all caps instead? Hm...
If I understand properly, isn't asbestos just a common geological term for a fibrous mineral? So wouldn't this have nothing to do with carcinogenic asbestos insulation?
I love to slaughter the english language.
why so cancerious..?
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
We have long since passed the point where science is as important a driving force behind societal development as the classic shapers of such development, religion, politics, education. It is high time we required scientific competence from the holders of public office. The Luddites have inherited our government; if our institutions are to adapt to our developing human realities, we must install in office those with a clear ability to grasp technical issues. California appears to have failed in this regard.
Since when can a State KNOW? A state can declare, recognize, propose, define, etc., but a state can not KNOW.
The amount of people that are dying every year from Mesothelioma is terrible. Being exposed to Asbestos from decades prior allows scar tissue to take place and for Mesothelioma to form. What a horrible disease to have.
They can't balance their budget ...but they have plenty of time to get all worked up over their pet rock. Recall the whole f*cking lot of them
Subject line says it all.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
This inane political correctness is almost amusingly bizarre. The interesting line of thought about her being supported by trail lawyers almost could be true.
Serpentine is one of the most common rocks in California. Easily ahead of granite of the Sierras.