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AI Predicts Manhole Explosions In New York City

reillymj writes "Every so often, a 300-pound manhole cover blows sky high in Gotham, followed sometimes by a column of flame and smoke. (There are a few hundred 'manhole incidents' per year in the city, not all of them this dramatic.) Researchers from Columbia University applied machine learning algorithms to Con Edison's warren of aging electrical wires and sewage access points around Manhattan. As the system learns where dangerous mixtures of sewer gas and decrepit wiring are likely to come in contact, it makes forecasts about trouble spots, including where the next explosion may occur. The team has just completed rankings for manholes in Brooklyn and the Bronx, and plans to return to Manhattan's grid, armed with the most recent inspection and repair data." The research was published in the July issue of Machine Learning.

213 comments

  1. I saw Batman, I remember this by DriedClexler · · Score: 3, Funny

    I thought those manhole popping incidents were due to the heavy microwave emitter vaporizing the water?

    --
    Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    1. Re:I saw Batman, I remember this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      I thought those manhole popping incidents were due to the heavy microwave emitter vaporizing the water?

      Oh, you mean the device they stole on a boat where they turned it on and did not plummet to the bottom of the ocean floor, cooking in steam? The one that doesn't seem to affect the 70% of water that makes up your body?

      I am not a physicist but I'm not stupid either.

    2. Re:I saw Batman, I remember this by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Does that mean CowboyNeal wasn't involved after all?

    3. Re:I saw Batman, I remember this by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Did anyone else read this and immediately just start giggling? In my defense, it IS Friday...

      AI Predicts Manhole Explosions In New York City

    4. Re:I saw Batman, I remember this by h4rm0ny · · Score: 2, Funny


      I read it and thought: 'who is Al?'
      They need a better font.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    5. Re:I saw Batman, I remember this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You might not be a physicist, but you'd still suck to go to the movies with.

    6. Re:I saw Batman, I remember this by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I thought it was because of exploding sharks.

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      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:I saw Batman, I remember this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I thought, "Al doesn't do anything like that, Ziggy does all the probability work."

    8. Re:I saw Batman, I remember this by MoeDumb · · Score: 1

      When in NYC walk gingerly around manholes. You never know when one might blow.

      --
      Mod Me Up. You'll make a grown man cry.
  2. Rio de Janeiro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They need something like this here in Rio de Janeiro. There have been several exploding electrical manholes around here too.

    1. Re:Rio de Janeiro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      We did not have such things in Berlin (or any other city i lived in) as electrical wiring and gas pipes are physical placed in different locations beneath the street. Further there has to be a minimal distance between gas and electricity and the electric wiring must be isolated in a way that there is no leakage. If so they replace the wiring/gas pipes. However, I expect that this will go downhill since they privatized such infrastructure lately.

    2. Re:Rio de Janeiro by delinear · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've never heard of anything like this either (UK here). It seems like a recipe for disaster in a country where litigation famously isn't capped by actual loss, surely no matter how much it costs to separate these would be offset by avoiding the first couple of multi-million dollar lawsuits.

    3. Re:Rio de Janeiro by camelrider · · Score: 2, Informative

      The gas involved here is from the sewer system, not "gas lines". Access to the sewer system is through the passageways for electric, water, etc., which are above.

    4. Re:Rio de Janeiro by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 2, Funny

      You Brits are so soft. I suppose that an average British family can expect their children to survive into adulthood. What a bunch of pampered pussies.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    5. Re:Rio de Janeiro by DJRumpy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I have to wonder whey they just don't use manholes with a mesh appearance, rather than a few holes. It would drastically increase the amount of pressure needed to blow the cover if it's more like a screen than a bottle cap.

    6. Re:Rio de Janeiro by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Because letting pressure out means letting water in. Tunnels filled with electrical/phone/cable equipment and wires, as well as steam pipes, should probably not be allowed to fill with water.

    7. Re:Rio de Janeiro by phoenix321 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's sewage pipes. There's some water in there, of course, and it could overflow with the next thunderstorm.

    8. Re:Rio de Janeiro by bws111 · · Score: 1

      I think most of the explosions happen in the electrical tunnels (which is why ConEd is doing this project, not the sewer district). The sewer pipes are well below the electrical tunnels.

    9. Re:Rio de Janeiro by SEWilco · · Score: 1

      Well, if they'd keep those pipes full of water and sewage then there wouldn't be gas explosions. For safety's sake they'd better keep them full to overflowing. Surely it's better to have some sewage running in the streets than to have an explosion. Better safe than smelling good. Oh, this is New York. Better safe, then.

    10. Re:Rio de Janeiro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Couldn't they just elevate the manhole sections slightly? The only water to be captured (unless there's a flood) would be the water that fell directly on it.

      In the case of a flood that covers the entire road with water, they have larger issues regardless.

  3. death by manhole cover? by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder if anybody has ever died from being hit on the head with one of these, seems it is likely. Shouldn't there be a way to secure the covers to the ground with a bolt that would at least cause the cover to not fly up but just turn over in case of an explosion?

    1. Re:death by manhole cover? by Linker3000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      They should just put them on bungee cords so they shoot into the air and then slam back down in place.

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    2. Re:death by manhole cover? by RobertLTux · · Score: 4, Informative

      the problem is that just about any bolting scheme will fail due to the bolting frame getting ripped out of the street if something big enough goes BOOM.

      oh btw i think most manhole covers in major cities are bolted down for security reasons

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    3. Re:death by manhole cover? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Good idea.

      Submit it to the NYC government. The most costly thing is maintenance of the old monuments and buildings and infrastructure created by previous politicians.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:death by manhole cover? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      oh btw i think most manhole covers in major cities are bolted down for security reasons

      sure, they're bolted, but it's usually just a pentagonal head that's not particularly difficult to come up with. further, if you really want in, you can use a vehicle-mounted welder to weld a rebar handle onto the bolt so you can turn it with a cheater bar, or a vehicle-mounted plasma cutter to cut it out. This can be done in a surprisingly short period of time and there is ample opportunity around 3am in most cases.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:death by manhole cover? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I mean bolts and some hinges to turn the thing over and slam it into the ground rather than for it to fly up

    6. Re:death by manhole cover? by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh yeah, Coyote ACME style, the only problem is calculating the event at the precise moment when the roadrunner is right above the manhole cover, or so that it gets right underneath it, I still think it is the Coyote who'll get hurt.

    7. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      you spend an oddly large amount of time planning to break into sewers. Personally I put most of my effort into avoiding rivers of shit.

    8. Re:death by manhole cover? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      you spend an oddly large amount of time planning to break into sewers. Personally I put most of my effort into avoiding rivers of shit.

      There's a lot below manhole covers besides shit.

      This took zero time planning; I have simply welded a bolt to the head of another bolt to get it out before. It's not rocket science. Hell, all you need is a couple of car batteries, some jumper cables, and some welding rod to do this, although you will want some way to clean the top of the bolt first.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:death by manhole cover? by ProppaT · · Score: 1

      If someone really wants one, they're going to get one...but I think the point was it's to prevent pranksters (read kids/teens) from pulling them out for fun. I fell in a loose manhole cover once...these things are dangerous if not secured properly or tampered with.

      --
      Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
    10. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "For information purpose only"

    11. Re:death by manhole cover? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      There's a lot below manhole covers besides shit.

      I know! I saw a documentary back in the 80's about a bunch of people living down there. One of them (I think his name was Vincent) had some weird mutation or birth defect or something though.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    12. Re:death by manhole cover? by Linker3000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      There may be some merit in a hinge, as suggested a bit further down, but how's about also incorporating a large-scale version of the party blower that uncurls with a whistling noise - this would channel the explosive force harmlessly upwards (20ft?) and provide some entertainment at the same time. /yeah, it's Friday!

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    13. Re:death by manhole cover? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder if anybody has ever died from being hit on the head with one of these

      Obviously, there is some danger, but still, how cool is it that manhole covers are shooting into the air in a column of flame?

      Just a little something to make a New Yorker's day just that much more stressful.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:death by manhole cover? by JediTrainer · · Score: 1

      They should just put them on bungee cords so they shoot into the air and then slam back down in place.

      Now that we can detect when they will occur, I'm smelling a new opportunity for a Darwin Award winner....

      --

      You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
    15. Re:death by manhole cover? by MetalPhalanx · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A friend of mine who does some professional photography takes some really cool pictures while "draining". There are a lot of neat places down there!

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/cshepherdson/

    16. Re:death by manhole cover? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Why not vent the inspection covers? It would be trivial to create a manhole cover with a one-way valve to allow pressure to escape without explosively ejecting the whole thing.

      Ah, I've just read a little lower down. As dkleinsc said, "maybe because there are no financial consequences to any organization if a manhole cover gets launched 300' up and lands on some 3-year-old."

      I'm going to go one step further and use the word legal instead of financial.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    17. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      you spend an oddly large amount of time planning to break into sewers. Personally I put most of my effort into avoiding rivers of shit.

      Dude's name is drinkypoo. What did you expect?

    18. Re:death by manhole cover? by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Check out this interesting documentary: Although it has more to do with underground railroad tunnels and the people living under them.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Days_(documentary)

    19. Re:death by manhole cover? by Flea+of+Pain · · Score: 1

      Ya! I want to be the first to ride one like Silver Surfer! Although I guess I'd be the Dirty Iron Surfer...

      --
      Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
    20. Re:death by manhole cover? by AikonMGB · · Score: 1

      I think the OP was proposing something along the lines of a hinged joint, such that as the pressure underneath the cover increased, it would pivot the cover about this hinge, somewhat like a butterfly valve. An interesting proposition, though I'm not certain how you would stop it from flipping over if a heavy enough vehicle drove over it.

      Aikon-

    21. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 5, Funny

      >> large-scale version of the party blower

      I think this would have to make a tremendous farting noise.

    22. Re:death by manhole cover? by Verteiron · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's New York, no one will care.

      Or notice.

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    23. Re:death by manhole cover? by delinear · · Score: 1

      I wonder, is there any reason they're a solid block and not a grid of bars or something instead - that way they help with draining and would surely alleviate the explosive build up situation too, which might mean you can secure them even better (I guess half the reason they're not that secure is because at the moment you want them to act as a vent if there's an explosive build up, at least the damage then happens in a location you can guarantee easy access to as opposed to under someone's home).

    24. Re:death by manhole cover? by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Nearby a small girl entering the Ladies room could ask "Momma is that you?"

    25. Re:death by manhole cover? by htdrifter · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the great link.
      Good subjects for a Hasselblad.

    26. Re:death by manhole cover? by rubycodez · · Score: 0, Troll

      remember that New York is mostly full of metro-sexuals and the kind of skanks who date them. no real downside in most fatalities.

    27. Re:death by manhole cover? by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      didn't sarah connor live with him?

    28. Re:death by manhole cover? by russotto · · Score: 1

      I wonder if anybody has ever died from being hit on the head with one of these, seems it is likely. Shouldn't there be a way to secure the covers to the ground with a bolt that would at least cause the cover to not fly up but just turn over in case of an explosion?

      I think any reasonable bolt would shear off in one of these incidents; it wouldn't hold it down, just make it tumble more. There are devices which allow controlled release of gas under the manhole during an explosion, but I imagine it comes down to cost (which makes certain people froth at the mouth when big evil multinational corporations consider it, but for some reason not when benevolent municipal governments do)

    29. Re:death by manhole cover? by AvenNYC · · Score: 1

      I'd hate us because of the greedy wall streeters....

    30. Re:death by manhole cover? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      isn't cost of the clean up a downside?

    31. Re:death by manhole cover? by camelrider · · Score: 1

      The long, loud whistle noise would annoy the neighbors?

    32. Re:death by manhole cover? by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      not true

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    33. Re:death by manhole cover? by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Because it is better to have rain, melting snow, etc draining into the sewer than into tunnels filled with electrical equipment and steam pipes.

    34. Re:death by manhole cover? by Dr.+Zim · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then she met some time traveler with a better looking lip and ditched his ass.

      --
      (name withheld by request)
    35. Re:death by manhole cover? by CrashandDie · · Score: 1

      And for once the goatse spammer wouldn't have been off-topic.

    36. Re:death by manhole cover? by swb · · Score: 1

      I think you're onto something. The storm drains around here are basically just a row of bars; you couldn't ever fall through one but the gaps are large enough that magnets, string and sticks were deployed for toy extraction as kids.

      With manhole covers, I think they want the minimal amount of drainage into them since they are generally for access to either sanitary sewers (which can get inundated in heavy rainfall and overflow discharge where you don't want them to) or electrical/comm vaults which don't mix well with large amounts of water. Plus they are often welded down to keep people out or for event security.

      One idea that occurred to me for manholes that could accommodate some water would be microperforation -- thousands of 1/16" holes drilled into the manhole would allow pressure to escape while making it less likely that tons of water would drain in as well as allow them to be welded down for security without making it possible to get into them or force objects into them.

      The other idea (which is probably too complex) that occured to me would keying the covers so that it required a half-turn to secure them to the frame, but have the frame be such that it would allow the manhole cover to lift up a couple of inches to let pressure escape.

      You could probably get the same effect by welding a T bracket to the bottom of the manhole cover and attaching another to the inside of the hole -- the cover could "pop off" but the cable would keep it from flying in the air. The cable could be easily removed from the bracket for maintenance.

    37. Re:death by manhole cover? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      "Party blower" has an entirely different meaning in NYC.

    38. Re:death by manhole cover? by peragrin · · Score: 1

      you can buy the pentagon socket heads relatively easily. depending on size I have some in stock.

      snap on tools has a good selection of them though. It isn't a home dumpster or blowes kind of stock you have to go to a real tool shop but they aren't hard to get a hold of.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    39. Re:death by manhole cover? by JohhnyTHM · · Score: 1


      Buuuurrrrrrrrppppppp!
      </Barney>

    40. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jasmine is hot

    41. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it bothers me that i caught that beastly reference.

    42. Re:death by manhole cover? by Syberz · · Score: 1

      incorporating a large-scale version of the party blower

      I don't see how a giant stripper would help with anything. Or maybe we don't go to the same kinds of parties and I'm missing something?

      --
      ~Syberz
    43. Re:death by manhole cover? by chakras · · Score: 1

      How about instead of a party blower we use:

      Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man
      Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man
      Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

      Hi, I’m Al Harrington, President and CEO of Al Harrington’s Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man emporium and warehouse. Thanks to a shipping error, I am now currently overstocked on Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Men, and I am passing the savings on to you.

      --
      America needs fewer laws, not more prisons -- James Bovard
    44. Re:death by manhole cover? by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      One of the photographers that took the amazing pictures of the Niagara Falls Power Station tailrace tunnels (with a pretty amazing writeup of rappelling down a 100 meter shaft full of rusty broken machinery in the dark while evading security people) does a lot of urban underground photography. If you poke around a bit -- which I'm not going to do from work -- you can find his contributions to the pretty-girls-not-wearing-clothes-in-sewer-systems genre of Art Photography.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    45. Re:death by manhole cover? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      you spend an oddly large amount of time planning to break into sewers. Personally I put most of my effort into avoiding rivers of shit.

      You think it's easy disguising this half-shell on my back?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    46. Re:death by manhole cover? by spazdor · · Score: 1

      This cheer might be best appreciated in the Bronx.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    47. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you spend an oddly large amount of time planning to break into sewers. Personally I put most of my effort into avoiding rivers of shit.

      Why would you think someone named DrinkyPOO would avoid rivers of shit?

    48. Re:death by manhole cover? by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 1

      Nice. It almost screams "Welcome to City 17!"

      --

      kurzweil_freak

      5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

      Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

    49. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if anybody has ever died from being hit on the head with one of these, seems it is likely. Shouldn't there be a way to secure the covers to the ground with a bolt that would at least cause the cover to not fly up but just turn over in case of an explosion?

      Sounds more like a hinge than a bolt. Such a cover actually does exist. http://www.pamcovers.com/pamrexCovers.html (Waterworks / Sewer nerd here)

    50. Re:death by manhole cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking as a New Yorker we don't sweat the "small things in life".

      I've personally seen 2 manhole covers go over 40 feet high and nearly kill someone.
      I've seen buses collapse into streets in front of my eyes.
      I've seen people hit head on by a bus, cars any and everything between.
      I've seen shit fall off a building and knock someone out.
      I've seen people jump off roofs to there death.
      I've seen airplanes go into buildings.
      I've seen hot steam pipes blow up and gush 80 stories high blocks from my home and where I just was.

      O yeah and when I say "I've seen" i don't mean on TV i was fucking there!!!

      Nobody here is worried about a man hole cover, that falls under the "when it's your time" category and they blow up here all the time btw!!!
      Bolting them DOWN IS NOT THE SOLUTION, have you ever seen the pressure and shit that comes out of these streets?

    51. Re:death by manhole cover? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      we don't hate all of them, the dead ones are ok.

    52. Re:death by manhole cover? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      well yeah, there are also those who work in the infrastructure that supports them...the cabbies, the hookers, the narc gangs.....let's just nuke the whole mess from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

    53. Re:death by manhole cover? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they should just not have exposed wiring arcing in a sewer gas environment. Most cities don't have a problem with exploding manholes.

  4. Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New York is Metropolis.

    Chicago is Gotham.

  5. the Manhole Incident by lxs · · Score: 1

    So many possibilities with a name like that. Naming an indie band would be the most obvious.

    1. Re:the Manhole Incident by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      Sounds more like a Goatse reference to me.

  6. A couple vent holes would let the gas escape by Darth+Sdlavrot · · Score: 1

    Et voila, no more gas build up, no more explosions.

    Even if they're primarily covers for electrical boxes there are obviously drains or some other means by which the sewer gas infiltrates.

    Seems like the little bit of rain or snow that would get in through vents would be able to drain away.

    1. Re:A couple vent holes would let the gas escape by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Southern California Edison requires two ventilating pylons for each manhole. They are much bigger than you might expect, and need to be spaced apart. It greatly increases planning complexity.

      Methane build-up is only one cause though. Venting that causes ...odors... that people tend to not want to be near. The more common cause is failure of oil-filled equipment ranging from link switches to transformers to oil-insulated cables. When these go you need someplace for the explosion to expand to... or you will destroy everything in the manhole.

      This is an interesting solution to the problem, but I have trouble understanding how it is more effective than root-cause analysis and post-incident review of data they already have. It isn't like the combination of factors is the problem... more like aging and over-burdened equipment that should already be on a predictive-maintenance plan.

    2. Re:A couple vent holes would let the gas escape by maxume · · Score: 1

      It is likely just an improvement in their predictive maintenance.

      The article says there are hundreds of incidents each year spread across the 51,000 manholes, and it implies that many of the incidents are not particularly spectacular, so this could just be one of those things where the outlier events that do occur show that they are spending approximately enough money (because the events are outliers).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:A couple vent holes would let the gas escape by Rub1cnt · · Score: 1

      That opens a Whole new can of worms for prank ideas...

      --
      Remember, it's not paranoia if they really ARE out to get you... :)
    4. Re:A couple vent holes would let the gas escape by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

      Actually in New York street vents are all over the place. Knowing what street vents are separates the real NYers (and civil engineers) from the rest.

      .

    5. Re:A couple vent holes would let the gas escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, they should just burn off the smelly gas and refuse like what was done in Centralia, Pennsylvania. No one complains about the underground refuse odor there anymore.

    6. Re:A couple vent holes would let the gas escape by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Venting that causes ...odors... that people tend to not want to be near.

      No big deal.. Methane is actually one of the more pleasant odors in New York.

    7. Re:A couple vent holes would let the gas escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Southern California Edison requires two ventilating pylons for each manhole. They are much bigger than you might expect, and need to be spaced apart. It greatly increases planning complexity.

      Methane build-up is only one cause though. Venting that causes ...odors... that people tend to not want to be near. The more common cause is failure of oil-filled equipment ranging from link switches to transformers to oil-insulated cables. When these go you need someplace for the explosion to expand to... or you will destroy everything in the manhole.

      This is an interesting solution to the problem, but I have trouble understanding how it is more effective than root-cause analysis and post-incident review of data they already have. It isn't like the combination of factors is the problem... more like aging and over-burdened equipment that should already be on a predictive-maintenance plan.

      actually it's hydrogen sulfide. not methane.

  7. Pathetic humans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Always one step behind the CHUDs.

  8. WTF? by Dr.+Hok · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's a joke, right? Exploding manhole covers? In pre-Snake Plissken-New York? OMG

    --
    Say out loud: I'm an Aspie and I'm somewhat proud, I guess. Uh. Can I write an email in all caps instead? Hm...
    1. Re:WTF? by captainpanic · · Score: 1

      You wonder why they're still afraid of terrorists when their ordinary standard normal manholes that exist in every street can just detonate at any moment.

    2. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      New Yorkers aren't as scared of terrorists as all the red-state housewives and average joe plumbers who believe Osama bin Laden to be 1,000 feet tall and breathe nuclear fire.

    3. Re:WTF? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Hey, people who live in low risk locations take those low risks seriously...

    4. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's true. The most advanced country in the world is not able to implement and maintain its infrastructure in a safe way. However, they can send their troops to any place on the globe in days, but they cannot send enough people to New Orleans (or fix the dikes in advance). This is all really strange and it shows that the problem are not real of a technical nature, but a policy and priority problem. And we have such policy and priority problems in all (so called) Western countries.

    5. Re:WTF? by chameleon3 · · Score: 1

      Snake Plissken? I heard he was dead.

    6. Re:WTF? by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      I cannot think of a single respect in which the U.S. is the most advanced country in the world. (It is *among* the more advanced in many respects, especially those that correlate well to GDP as measured in dollars, but in many other important respects it is not.)

  9. I can beat the machine by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I predict massive manhole manhole cover blowouts and big explosions anywhere within a mile radius of the next Michael Bay movie.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  10. Its a male, male, male world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Why not call it 'humanhole incidents', you male chauvinistic pigs??

    1. Re:Its a male, male, male world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not call it 'humanhole incidents', you male chauvinistic pigs??

      Because 'man' is actually gender neutral, as are many 'masculine' words, and have been for hundreds of years. Quirk of the way the language evolved. "Man" was and is gender neutral, "Wyf" was a female and "Were" was a male. The French (Well... the Normans) came in and fucked everything up, so "Man" became both gender neutral AND masculine. And thus it's been for almost a thousand years now. It wasn't until "womynists" were too stupid to grasp that that anybody had an issue.

    2. Re:Its a male, male, male world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not call it 'humanhole incidents', you male chauvinistic pigs??

      Because as goatse clearly indicates, it's a manhole thing. Women just don't do that.

    3. Re:Its a male, male, male world by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      A woman I know recently asked the questions "Why do they call it menopause and menistration?

    4. Re:Its a male, male, male world by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      and WTF is menistration?

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    5. Re:Its a male, male, male world by siride · · Score: 1

      You were right up until you started talking about "wyf", which was actually "wif" and was neuter in Old English (but "wer" was in fact masculine). The French didn't have anything to do with "fuck[ing] everything up", at least with respect to "man".

    6. Re:Its a male, male, male world by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      A fat finger typ[o. See here

  11. Who? by Thinine · · Score: 1

    Who the fuck is Al and why should I care if he predicts manhole explosions? What, is he psychic or something?

    1. Re:Who? by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      No Al is a hologram projected from the real person in the future... He actually doesn't predict it himself he uses Ziggy a supercomputer with a personality, to do the actual predictions. He is telling us this so his friend Sam Becket (who looks a lot like Captain Archer from Star Trek Enterprise) can Quantum Leap again hopefully back to his own time...

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Who? by molecular · · Score: 0, Redundant

      mod parent funny

      "Al".upper() == "AI"
      False

  12. DC is just going downhill by will_die · · Score: 1

    So they are now doing villians that spend their time blowing up manhole covers. Remember the good old days when Gotham would be under the attack of villians like Ra's al Ghul and Bane.

  13. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by Morty · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The skyline and culture for Gotham always seemed more like New York City. wikipedia also identifies Gotham City with NYC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotham_City#Origin_of_name

    Metropolis, meanwhile, appeared Midwestern in the early comics, although wikipedia claims that they haven't been consistent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(comics)

  14. Poo Energy by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Couldn't they harness all that energy that blows up manhole covers into some kind of renewable energy? Feed the sewer gas back into natural gas lines, attach pistons to manhole covers, etc

    1. Re:Poo Energy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I could see trying to harness the gas and use it in a power plant, but do you realize how much energy it would take (both electrical and man) to implement and maintain something like "attach pistons to manhole covers" and how little energy you'd get out of that? It's not like they go off every three hours, this might happen to a single manhole once in its lifetime.

    2. Re:Poo Energy by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      yes, because being lofted 300 feet into the air is usually the end of that particular cover's life.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  15. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by ffejie · · Score: 1

    Christopher Nolan (director of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) has adapted Gotham to be Chicago. However, throughout history, Gotham is most closely recognized as New York City in the Batman comics. Wikipedia weighs in.. Search for Chicago.

    Comics aside, one of New York Cities many nicknames is Gotham. Check the nickname sidebar. Quite a few businesses in NYC have taken this nickname as part of their name. Most famously, the Gotham Gazette and, more recently, Gothamist.

    --
    Disagreeing with me does not mean you get to mod me troll.
  16. Not every major cities by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Around in Paris and the suburb (wonderful Banlieue...) all manhole cover can be removed with a metal crowbar. there is no bolting. And this is the first time I *ever* hear of manhole cover blowing up (stolen , oh yes, as a dangerous prank). I got the feeling it is not the wide spread problem in major city you think it is.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Not every major cities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Happens (I think more rarely) in Washington, D.C., which some might argue constitutes a major city.

      Last time I remember it being reported, a local bar made an "Exploding Manhole Cover" cocktail with an oreo on top :-)

    2. Re:Not every major cities by umghhh · · Score: 0, Troll
      How decadent Americans really are - so they have a problem with infrastructure that is falling apart and instead of fixing it they write software to predict where it happens (so that they can install a web come and get million hits on you tube ????). OTOH maybe it is not a decadence but a sign showing the real state of the country? Or is this a commie crime to try to fix infrastructure that serves all?

      I wonder why this is not a problem in Germany? I mean I live here a dozen years now and I have heard about a lots of unexploded munitions from WWII but the problem with thick cast iron plates flying randomly over the frequented streets is not known to me. Obviously on the way to become undeveloped world we Europeans are again lagging behind US.

    3. Re:Not every major cities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I understand it's only a large problem in new york city (not the nation). I live in nyc and it's semi rare to see any sort of gas or ruptures happens in queens, however in Manhattan it would be almost weird to not bump into some weird gas escaping form underground here and there. I'm used to a giant smoke stack in the center of a 5 lane avenue in Manhattan, yet never seen one in queens (I'm sure it happens just it's a rarity). New york city is an "old" city that had skyscrapers built on infrastructure that was clearly developed before the concept of 30-story buildings occupying every single block. I think the main issue was that nyc was built haphazardly, sure the subway in frankfurt is MUCH better (in terms of noise/pollution/reliability, cause it's hard to beat the coverage/service of nyc's) than new york's, but so is the one in DC, I bet you Frankfurt's and Washington's subways were built 50+ years *after* nyc's. Also a city like Hong Kong likely (too lazy too look it up) did not have many skyscrapers until it was a solved problem on how to support such structures. I'd imagine much of the electric grid, telecommunications, sewers, subways, etc.. had to be built *after* huge towers occupied the surrounding blocks. Hell they're currently building a new subway line on 2nd avenue and it's causing issues with old buildings that can't take the stress of underground drilling, explosions, and excavations.

      NYC in almost any case is an exception in america, not a rule. Where else are people more annoyed than scared when a terrorist plot reroutes your subway, massive underground explosions barely make an impact on the news, where a fire that can be seen from 10-20miles away (I was in the upper east side watching a giant fire happening all the way in brooklyn from a roof last Thursday) barely gets a passing mention on the local news. Our roads are shit, and our trains have "signal problems" like every day, our bridges are crumbling, but almost everything is 100+ years old. It's not age that's killing us, it's that back then people didn't have a great idea on how to build these things compared to more recently. And before remarks are made about how everything's in decline, when you consider the economy, I find it amazing that they're changing the cables on the manhattan bridge (didn't even realize that was possible on an already built suspension bridge) painting other bridges, massive random construction on nearly all the highways (usually past midnight for traffic reasons), skyscrapers being randomly built all over, a brand new subway line being built, rolling out of fiber optics network, etc..

    4. Re:Not every major cities by Josh04 · · Score: 1

      New York just wishes it were London, clearly.

  17. It's all NY, NY. by archangel9 · · Score: 1

    Superman - Metropolis.

    Batman - Gotham

    Chicago never entered into it, except in your mind.

  18. In all seriousness by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So we have millions of people desperate for work, and a whole lot of dangerous wiring all over New York City. Why aren't we (and by "we", I mean ConEd or any level of government) investing in training up as many electricians as we can and replacing the bad wiring while it's relatively cheaper to do so?

    Oh, wait, maybe because there are no financial consequences to any organization if a manhole cover gets launched 300' up and lands on some 3-year-old.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:In all seriousness by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Cost of law suit vs bad wiring, it the old line "when there are enough tombstones the technology gets fixed"

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:In all seriousness by gerddie · · Score: 0, Redundant
      I would guess that in a country where a hot coffee can get you sued, someone would have to pay, but ...

      A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

      It is left as an exercise to the reader to (a) name the movie and (b) translate this to the scenario of accepting manhole incidents instead of repairing the bad wiring.

    3. Re:In all seriousness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone that has personally worked with ConEd for the past number of years, I can say that there is so much burecratic red tape in that organization that getting anything done requires at least two years of hassle.

    4. Re:In all seriousness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the wiring would be own be the city (the people) and the regulations would demand that the wiring has to fulfill certain criteria, then they would fix it. This would make energy a little bit more expensive as more safety is always a little bit pricey while unsafe structures only cost lives. As long as the public makes no issue out of it nothing will happen.

    5. Re:In all seriousness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would guess that in a country where coffee that is heated beyond all industry standards, and served to customers at a temperature unfit for human consumption can get you sued

      Fixed that for you. Kindly read up on the Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants case before repeating the bullshit that "all lawsuits are bad."

    6. Re:In all seriousness by sunking2 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yah, lets deficit spend our way out of this! People need jobs, why doesn't the government just hire them and give them busy work!

    7. Re:In all seriousness by RivenAleem · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Clearly we need better tombstone technology

    8. Re:In all seriousness by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I suspect that there are several complicating factors:

      Getting electricians who are competent to work on high voltage or high current distribution systems(and not make the situation worse) is probably a trifle harder than getting ones capable of doing home wiring without the place burning down(the latter, now that the fad for building shitty houses in the exurbs that nobody wants, should be in excellent supply). Not impossible; but you are probably looking at a nontrivial amount of theory, plus some time following around people who know what they are doing.

      Second, in dense urban areas, maintenance often means cutting power to whiny people, or digging up roads for days at a time that a bunch of complainers were trying to "commute" on. I strongly suspect that, if you cornered the highest ranking guy at ConEd who wears a hard hat for purposes other than publicity photos, he could tell you all kinds of upgrades and repairs that he would love to make. After the third scotch, he could probably stop shaking and tell you about the various obstacles in his way...

    9. Re:In all seriousness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fight Club!

    10. Re:In all seriousness by izomiac · · Score: 2, Informative

      Two points. The first is that while there are plenty of frivolous lawsuits, the plantiff in the McDonalds coffee was hospitalized for over a week and had to have skin graphs because the coffee was almost boiling when served. The second is that your quote isn't applicable to bad wiring because bad wiring has to be replaced eventually, and the cost for maintaining that wiring is likely rising until it's replaced.

    11. Re:In all seriousness by Nadaka · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An investment in repairing decaying infrastructure and even putting in new infrastructure is not a zero sum game. Let the infrastructure decay long enough and you will no longer be able to support industry and commerce, leading to an exponential rate of decay. Meanwhile, working laborers will be able to afford to consume and increase the growth of industry and commerce.

      The New deal gave us a national network of interstates, bridges and highways that have dramatically increased the productivity of the nation as a whole for the last 50 years. These were only designed to last about 50 years. Now after 30+ years of neglect and decay they are falling apart. Now more than ever, we need a reinvestment in national infrastructure. I am not talking about just roads and bridges; but power, water and information distribution systems as well.

    12. Re:In all seriousness by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      So we have millions of people desperate for work, and a whole lot of dangerous wiring all over New York City. Why aren't we (and by "we", I mean ConEd or any level of government) investing in training up as many electricians as we can and replacing the bad wiring while it's relatively cheaper to do so?

      Because "relatively cheaper" is still pretty dang expensive - because you still have to buy all the tools, vehicles, etc... these 'cheap' employees will need to do their jobs. (As well as paying medical, pensions contributions, taxes, etc...) Then there's the factor of the difficulty of ensuring that you don't send out a 'trained' but inexperienced team without competent supervision. (Which is going to mean promoting at least some existing personnel - but not having jobs for them when the temporary surge is over.) Etc... etc...
       
      IOW, while not hugely complex, it's more complicated and there are more considerations than you might think. (There's also unions.)
       

      Oh, wait, maybe because there are no financial consequences to any organization if a manhole cover gets launched 300' up and lands on some 3-year-old.

      And you don't think there will be financial consequences in sending masses of inexperienced workers to do a skilled job in a dangerous environment? (Not only with regards to the workers, but with regards to the quality of work they do and the consequences of them not doing it quite right.) Again, not as simple as you might think.

    13. Re:In all seriousness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lets deficit spend

      Stop weirding language

    14. Re:In all seriousness by cowscows · · Score: 1

      Ah, but fixing the roads would just lead to the unemployment of guys who fix automobile suspension systems. Won't anybody think of them?

      Whether or not the stimulus plan was a good way to fix the economy is out of my area of expertise, but I have noticed a ton of sorely needed roadwork happening in my town, and I'm very grateful that that is finally happening. The amount of road construction that's been going on around here in the past 6 months is amazing.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    15. Re:In all seriousness by digitig · · Score: 1

      So would there have been no case had it been tea, which should be near-boiling when served?

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    16. Re:In all seriousness by digitig · · Score: 1

      This would make energy a little bit more expensive as more safety is always a little bit pricey while unsafe structures only cost lives. As long as the public makes no issue out of it nothing will happen.

      Actually, the safety can be cheaper than the lawsuits. Sure, you'll want a margin for error on the safety, but the insurers will put a margin for error on the cost of the lawsuits, so safety can still work out cheaper.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    17. Re:In all seriousness by smaddox · · Score: 1

      These is becoming another one of those stupid slashdot memes that gets repeated over and over again, any time liability or lawsuits are mentioned. However, this one isn't even funny...

    18. Re:In all seriousness by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      I agree with your thoughts on rebuilding infrastructure, but I want a true infrastructure program, where things are built to last 100+ years, not a jobs program where roads are resurfaced every 5 years, etc.

    19. Re:In all seriousness by izomiac · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, apparently McDonalds and Starbucks are both being sued right now for burns caused by tea. The McDonalds suit doesn't look very serious though.

      But, really, anything that can cause third degree burns shouldn't be served. Most people have never seen worse than a mild second degree burn. Third degree means that the skin was burned all the way though and you can see the fat or bone that's underneath. If you drank something that hot, it'd literally burn a hole in your stomach or esophagus.

      BTW, for the McDonalds hot coffee suit, it was her thighs and genitalia that got burned. If the femoral artery was hit, she'd have bled to death within minutes. I'm trying not to picture what a third degree burn on the genitalia looks like, though fortunately they're relatively painless since the nerves have been destroyed.

    20. Re:In all seriousness by Seth+Kriticos · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As I don't live in NYC, I just checked out their website for the first site. The "about us" section describes how they make $13 billion revenue.. And still, the site I'm presented with looks like this: http://j.imagehost.org/view/0334/Untitled_8 in my browser. Checking out the sources it seems this masterpiece is coded in classic ASP.

      Now don't get me wrong, but why does a company with such a high profile present the world such a peace of misery? I mean, this is one of the most important interfaces they have to the world, and it's garbage. Should I assume that all their services have this quality, especially those which I don't directly see? Just asking..

    21. Re:In all seriousness by M8e · · Score: 1

      The first is that while there are plenty of frivolous lawsuits, the plantiff in the McDonalds coffee was hospitalized for over a week and had to have skin graphs because the plantiff spilled coffee that was almost boiling when served.

      TFTFY

    22. Re:In all seriousness by gerddie · · Score: 1

      Firstly, coffee should be hot: If it will be a few minutes before it will be served, the temperature should be maintained at 180 - 185 degrees Fahrenheit. and secondly, of course you are right about the increasing maintenance costs, and adding this to the equation is what the exercise for the reader was about.

    23. Re:In all seriousness by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Money. How much are you willing to pay for this additional service?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    24. Re:In all seriousness by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Look at the normal timetable for these recession events. It looks like we have cut that in half.

      Yes, a lot fo work is getting done, people are employed and paying taxes. Spending on infrastructure is working, and quite frankly, we need more.

      I would pay another 1000 bucks a year in federal taxes for more infrastructure updating.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    25. Re:In all seriousness by digitig · · Score: 1

      Well, apparently McDonalds and Starbucks are both being sued right now for burns caused by tea.

      In the case of the McDonalds' one the tea spilt over him as the car he was in went over a speed bump. The problem wasn't that he was served hot tea, it's that he treated it irresponsibly.

      But, really, anything that can cause third degree burns shouldn't be served.

      In India, tea is usually served along with an empty cup. You pour the tea from one cup to the other until it's cool enough to drink. The trouble with insisting that tea be served cooler is that the water must be boiling when it hits the tea if you're going to make a decent brew. Fast-food restaurants are not going to spend five minutes waiting for your tea to cool down, they're going to make it with tepid water which results in terrible tea. I don't go along with the mentality that you shouldn't sell people stuff that can harm them if treated irresponsibly. Maybe builders' yards shouldn't be allowed to sell bricks because they can break bones if dropped on your toes, and supermarkets shouldn't sell oven cleaner because it can cause blindness if used in the eyes?

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    26. Re:In all seriousness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      new deal interstates? that's why they call it the
      dwight d. eisenhower interstate system!?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

    27. Re:In all seriousness by Kevin+Stevens · · Score: 1

      Come on now, I live in NYC, and I assure you this isn't something that happens every day. This is a rare occurrence, it just has a lot of wow factor so it gets attention when it does.

      On my list of fear factors, exploding manhole covers is somewhere below rabid squirrels attacking me. Stuff falling off buildings, sidewalk grates/basement access doors, getting hit by a car, getting bitten by someone's dog, and many many other things are higher on the list. This is *not* something I want to pay higher taxes for, or pay higher electric rates for. There are many many more efficient uses of capital to make NY safer. Also, keep in mind that this is NYC, where any sort of trade has a strong union. There could be 75% unemployment, and electricians would still get the prevailing wage, which is somewhere around $40/hour when including benefits.

    28. Re:In all seriousness by izomiac · · Score: 1

      I usually agree that if you hurt yourself then it's your own fault. But I also think that if you sell someone something, it should be usable for it's intended purpose, or you've committed an act of fraud. If you drank a 180+ degrees Fahrenheit beverage you'd probably die, but drinking is the intended purpose. McDonald's market research also showed that most customers intended to drink the coffee immediately, and no warning was given that you shouldn't do that, hence why they lost the lawsuit (the jury reduced the judgment by 20% since they felt the plaintiff was 20% responsible for her injuries).

    29. Re:In all seriousness by digitig · · Score: 1

      I usually agree that if you hurt yourself then it's your own fault. But I also think that if you sell someone something, it should be usable for it's intended purpose, or you've committed an act of fraud. If you drank a 180+ degrees Fahrenheit beverage you'd probably die, but drinking is the intended purpose.

      I hardly think that hot tea is unfit for purpose. My local supermarket sells packs of fruit, half ready-to-eat and half under-ripe to eat in a couple of days. If you ate the under-ripe fruit then you'd probably get an upset stomach, but that doesn't make it unfit for purpose. If you think there should be a sign saying "we make our tea fresh, so wait a couple of minutes before drinking it" then fine (although I think it's overkill), but if you think that freshly made tea is unfit for purpose then you have a strange idea of purpose.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    30. Re:In all seriousness by izomiac · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't drink tea myself. If I ever decided to try it, and somehow didn't notice the temperature, then I'd be placed in the hospital with permanent injuries if I weren't warned. People generally don't expect to be given a beverage that they can't safely drink. We all know food is hot when it's being cooked, but everything else in a restaurant is allowed to cool before being served.

      A few months ago I went to a chinese buffet and poured myself some hot and sour soup. What I didn't realize was that they'd changed the ladle on me to one with a higher capacity than the bowl... so it obviously overflowed. The soup was hot enough that it takes ~20 minutes to become edible, and viscous enough to stick to my hand and gave me a decent burn. But I didn't even bother complaining since it was my own carelessness and it was only a first degree burn. This isn't the kind of thing I think someone should sue over. I would not expect it to burn through my skin and expose the bone under any circumstances. That'd be ridiculous, and is basically what McDonalds did.

    31. Re:In all seriousness by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      I'm not suggesting that the job is easy. I'm suggesting that the job is necessary (because faulty wiring causes explosions), and easier to do now than later.

      In other words, I'm taking about a, say, $120 million project now versus a $180 million project later. Still huge, still unpleasant, but less so than it will be if you wait.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    32. Re:In all seriousness by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      ... I went to a chinese buffet and poured myself some hot and sour soup.

      That was your first mistake - wasting valuable stomach space on soup!

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    33. Re:In all seriousness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you're saying that someone may decide to move into or out of ConEds service area based on the layout of their web site, I don't see how it qualifies as anything remotely resembling a "most important interface". And except for the 'Go' button overflowing slightly into the adjacent area, what qualifies this as "a piece of misery"?

    34. Re:In all seriousness by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      i see no reason why a fast food tea maker could not include a countercurrent exchange that cooled the outgoing tea and prewarmed the water going in to make more tea, serving a safer product and conserving energy

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    35. Re:In all seriousness by digitig · · Score: 1

      It might be possible, but it's not obvious how it would work. The tea has to steep in very hot water for a couple of minutes, but it gets bitter if left for too long, so by its nature it is an on-demand batch process rather than a continuous process. If there were a high turnover of tea I could see a line of such machines like a coffee bar, with barristas taking tea out, serving the tea, and reloading for the next batch. In places like McDonalds, though, most of the demand is for sodas, and the tea demand would be too erratic. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not easy.

      Of course, some places put the milk in at the same time as the water, taking the heat off too soon. But McDonalds, whilst not serving great tea, is better than that.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    36. Re:In all seriousness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you want to pay for it? infrastucture always decays, it's idiots like you that think it's free to replace.

    37. Re:In all seriousness by Kattspya · · Score: 1

      When I was about six years old I upended a pot of boiling water on my woolen clad foot. All I got was a second degree burn on my big toe. Please tell me how the fuck an adult gets third degree burns from tea.

  19. Prognostication process revealed by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1, Funny

    Some wise guy just noticed one day that all known incidents happened near the locations of Taco Bell toilet sewer pipe connections, and so extrapolated the other locations from all known franchise pipe connections.

  20. Video? by shish · · Score: 1

    Every so often, a 300-pound manhole cover blows sky high in Gotham, followed sometimes by a column of flame and smoke.

    Video or it didn't happen.

    --
    I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    1. Re:Video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Video or it didn't happen.

      Youtube is your friend!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZcIwdVY3n4

    2. Re:Video? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Will a crappy video of a steam pipe explosion suffice?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENCflNuklH0

      It happens right about 14 seconds in and takes place right behind the date/time stamp

      Than there's this cruddy video which shows a nice amount of flames coming from a manhole cover. No explosion however. There is also a nice voiceover describing how the explosions occur.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxW78fYo5z0&feature=related

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    3. Re:Video? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      NY manholes way 300 pounds? thats almost 3 times more then any other city. I suspect it's wrong.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  21. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by careysub · · Score: 3, Informative

    New York is Metropolis.

    Chicago is Gotham.

    Gotham is New York. This is a popular name for the city that dates from the Nineteenth Century (Washington Irving in 1807 to be precise).

    The association with Bat Man is due to a DC writer's decision to invoke this nickname of the actual city of New York to evoke its essence in the fictional city.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  22. Changes in predictions by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    Won't a "save" or two totally screw with the AI's pattern matching since the gas isn't building up the same way as it would have? It will have to let a lot go pop before learning a new pattern.

    1. Re:Changes in predictions by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I would assume that there is some way for maintenance incidents to be fed into the system. Heck, those are probably even more instructive than simple explosions; because it is a lot easier to measure things like transformer coolant levels/temps, line amperages, atmospheric methance concentrations, etc. before everything is a smoldering mess...

  23. PRV by spdiscus · · Score: 1

    How about some sort of pressure relief valve... so it just steams people alive instead of squashing them.

  24. A good doco on ideas like this by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    History Channel:The Crumbling of America
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBSPcIGGcIc

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  25. These things can explode spectacularly... by What'sInAName · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One time I witnessed one of these explosions in Boston, and let me tell you, it's quite impressive! It was a hot August day and I was standing about 20 ft away from it, when out of nowhere, BOOMBOOMBOOM! There were actually a series of explosions that knocked the manhole cover a foot or two in the air each time, and each time the cover came back down perfectly on the hole, as if nothing ever happened. There was a college kid who was even closer to it than I was. He was just a few feet away when it happened and I could see that it shook him up pretty badly.

    I asked the workman who was there a short time later what exactly had happened and he said a transformer had blown.

  26. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by Clueless+Moron · · Score: 1

    Metropolis is a composite, but it was originally inspired after Toronto

  27. What about fixing broken infrastructure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder why they need to predict that. Wouldn't it be better to fix the stuff? I've heard that sometime animals get electrified in NY because the wiring is broken. I don't know, but when such thing happens I would either fire the responsible person and order to fix it (as mayor) or when the infrastructure is not state/city owned (which is definitely stupid) I would revoke their commission on the lines.

  28. Questions (yes I did RTFA) by TheLoneGundam · · Score: 1

    Do they have any way to measure the accuracy of the prediction algorithm? The article says of a 'blind study'that "The top 2 percent of manholes ranked as vulnerable by the algorithm included 11 percent of the manholes that had recently had a fire or explosion" but to me that seems like statistical blather: do they mean that if they ranked 10,000 manholes and there had been 100 incidents recently then the top 200 manholes they ranked included 11 manholes that had incidents? And if the answer to that is 'Yes' then how does that compare to a random guess? In my view (I am not a professional statistician), you could flip a coin about whether the manhole will have a problem or not, and probably come up with 11 correct answers out of the first 200 flips.

  29. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2, Informative

    The News Building in New York was the basis for the Daily Planet in the first two Superman movies. For reference: http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID014.htm

    As a side note, if you're in New York go visit the lobby of the building and walk around the globe exhibit therein. Look at the floor and note the distances to various locations. The walls surrounding the exhibit have clocks for different parts of the world as well.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  30. Sure an AI can predict the explosion by RevWaldo · · Score: 3, Funny

    but can it predict whether it lands heads or tails?

    .

    1. Re:Sure an AI can predict the explosion by locallyunscene · · Score: 1

      Depends if it's a Tuesday.

    2. Re:Sure an AI can predict the explosion by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes if you can get it all the variables.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Sure an AI can predict the explosion by hoytak · · Score: 1

      With probability 1/2, yes.

      --
      Does having a witty signature really indicate normality?
  31. unfortunate publication venue by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Informative

    The research was published in the July issue of Machine Learning.

    Too bad, because if it had been published in the Journal of Machine Learning Research instead, people might actually be able to read it.

    1. Re:unfortunate publication venue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad, because if it had been published in the Journal of Machine Learning Research instead, people might actually be able to read it.

      According to your second link, I should still be able to read this article if the author wants to put it online.

  32. Am I missing something here? by BangaIorean · · Score: 1

    As a concept, this AI thingy to 'predict' manhole explosions sounds cool - but can anyone explain why they don't just change the 'decrepit wiring'? First time I'm hearing of exploding manholes, and on top of that, a cool technique to 'forecast those explosions'!

    1. Re:Am I missing something here? by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      Because NY is in the US of A, and everyone knows that if you want to make it you'll just have to pull yourself up by your own shoelaces. Anyone willing to work hard can make it big and afford a car that can handle manhole covers pounding into the bottom. And the rest of them...well, who gives a shit?

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
  33. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gotham actually came from a need to express the love for bacon and since Gotbacon sounds pretty weird, they decided to use Gotham.

  34. Sewer gas by westlake · · Score: 2, Informative

    A friend of mine who does some professional photography takes some really cool pictures while "draining". There are a lot of neat places down there!

    Yes there are.

    But you can die in the drains - and it can happen very quickly.

    Sewer gas is mostly methane but may include hydrogen sulfide, ammonia, methane, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides. Improper disposal of petroleum products such as gasoline and mineral spirits can add to the fun. [freely adapted from the Wikipedia]

    Methane is something to be feared:

    Two kids among five killed by methane gas

    1. Re:Sewer gas by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I used to use a storm drain as a shortcut to get from San Lorenzo Lumber to Nob Hill Foods (Well, a ravine behind it) but I never ran around in the sewers, and I've never messed around with manholes or their covers. Heh heh.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  35. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

    Interesting. I'd always assumed Gotham's name came from the Gothic style of the comics, including the architecture.

    --
    Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
  36. How accurately? by wealthychef · · Score: 1

    Making predictions is not impressive. Making *accurate* predictions is. I'm sure you could get a psychic to predict this too if you paid one.

    --
    Currently hooked on AMP
  37. Allen Iverson?! by HelperMunkee · · Score: 1

    Truly a man of many talents; who knew he was so scientifically minded?

  38. My Cousins injured by manhole explosion by hydromike2 · · Score: 1

    I had never heard of this happening before a week and a half ago, my cousin and his wife were crossing the street in Rio de Janeiro and a manhole cover blew off throwing her a few meters and burning 80% of her body and cousin only had 35% of his body burned. They are both doing ok, luckily no third degree burns, but the idea that this can happen is absurd. I thought that is was ridiculous that this could happen in South American country, but especially so that it happens in NYC.

  39. Algorithm looks like failure by odin84gk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Con Edison blind-tested the team’s model by withholding information on a recent set of fires and explosions. The top 2 percent of manholes ranked as vulnerable by the algorithm included 11 percent of the manholes that had recently had a fire or explosion, Rudin notes.

    According to the article, there are about 51,000 manholes in New York. A few hundred explosions occur every year. (Lets say 300). So the algorithm listed (51,000*.02)=1020 manholes that were high risk. Out of that 1020 manholes, they were correct on (300*.11)=33 manholes.

    In my industry, we would call this a complete failure. Even the weather forecaster would call this a failure. It reminds me of Demolition Man

    Chief George Earle: We can just wait for another code to go red. And when Phoenix performs another Murder Death Kill, we'll know exactly where to pounce.
    John Spartan: [sarcastic] Great plan.
    Chief George Earle: [not realising the sarcasm] Thank you.
    Erwin: He likes your plan, Chief!

  40. Please, think of the children... by wzzzzrd · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...err, foreigners. Don't use words like "manhole" in headlines. My native tongue isn't English, and you don't want to know what kind of associations comes to a foreign mind while reading the word "manhole".

    --
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
    1. Re:Please, think of the children... by Thundersnatch · · Score: 1

      There used to be a gay bar in Chicago's "boys Town" neighborhood called "The Manhole". Never went in myself, mind you. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    2. Re:Please, think of the children... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't want to know what kind of associations comes to a foreign mind while reading the word "manhole".

      I do. Please elaborate. Slowly...

  41. New Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *pop*

    Heads!

    Aw, phooey. You win.

  42. Manhole Explosions by AvenNYC · · Score: 1

    Not really furthering the discussion, but all Tuesday night from 7 pm to 9 am Wednesday I was without power because a manhole (or 2) exploded at the end of my street. 8 firetrucks, many many police cars.... tons of fun. I'd really hate to be on top of one when it explodes.....

  43. But are they chocolate covered... by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 1

    And what can you say about them?

    1. Re:But are they chocolate covered... by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

      They are irony fortified.
      Yes, I know the Niven short story to which you are alluding.

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
    2. Re:But are they chocolate covered... by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 1

      No. "Don't get it sandy. We can eat the chocolate. It's the only thing on this world we know we can eat." ;-)

  44. Who? by sanjosanjo · · Score: 1

    Al Gore?

  45. List of things that can kill you in New York by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Steam Explosion
    Manhole Explosion
    Crane collapse
    Manhole electrocution
    Light Pole electrocution
    Then there are the construction and scaffolding deaths from stuff falling on peoples heads, not to mention getting hit by a taxi or bus or falling on the subway tracks. Watch your step!

  46. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by jdgeorge · · Score: 1

    Agreed. The source is the Salmagundi Papers, 1807.

  47. I would quit my job if by Combatso · · Score: 1

    I would quit my City Works Dept job if my Identification Tag said "Manhole Inspector"

  48. Theft prevention. by swb · · Score: 1

    They're often welded to the frame for theft prevention. IIRC when metals prices were peaking, there was a rash of manhole cover thefts in Detroit. Apparently it got bad enough that it became a substantial road hazard in some areas.

  49. Nickname? by dragmar · · Score: 1

    Is this to be known as the Goatse effect?

  50. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    New York has been called Gotham since long before Batman was inked. Metropolis was any city, since "metropolis" is a synonym for "city." It only became midwestern when an actual, real town in Illinois named Metropolis adopted Superman.

  51. Publish it to the Web by wowbagger · · Score: 1

    They should publish this to the Web - there are lots of looky-lous that would happily traipse from site to site, waiting for a show.

    If they charged for access, they could even raise some money for repairs.

    They could raise even more by requiring a cut from any video taken of the events.

  52. Safety first! by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 1

    All of those high voltages in wet areas are dangerous. They should be running power over fiber.

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    Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
  53. great by multi+io · · Score: 1

    So it seems that by now the public infrastructure in NYC (and elsewhere in the US?) has deteriorated to the point where they've given up on fixing it, instead resorting to using computer models to predict when and where it will literally blow up.

    1. Re:great by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Where does it say they've given up on fixing it? What do you expect them to do to 'fix it', replace the whole system? How long would that take? How much inconvenience would it cause? How much would it cost? Who is going to pay? Maybe the smarter thing to do is use computer models to predict where there are likely to be problems, and repair those areas first.

  54. Preburn. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With timed electrical arcs or a heated element.

  55. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember reading somewhere that metropolis was supposed to be "New York City by day" and Gotham was supposed to be "New York City by night" And it's true to me, during the day the skyline does resemble metropolis quite nicely, but once it gets dark, there are lots of dark gloomy places all over the city. York Avenue facing the 59th street bridge from around 64th street looks scary in an industrial grity way in the dark. This is it at day but night changes it a good amount.

  56. I think they are by hoytak · · Score: 1

    If you read the mentioned JMLR journal article (link to free version: here), it presents this problem as one of prioritizing maintenance. It's some neat AI, and seems quite useful.

    --
    Does having a witty signature really indicate normality?
  57. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by moortak · · Score: 1

    It became Midwestern when they wrote the original strips in Cleveland and set some of them there. It was based more on Toronto. As it went on it became more of a vague somewhere on the east coast location.

    --
    Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
  58. Perforated covers! by thodelu · · Score: 1

    Why not make the manhole covers perforated so that the pressure never builds up?!?

  59. Re:Gotham? I thought the article was about NY? by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

    No, Chicago is Gotham. Didn't you see the scene in Dark Knight where Batman stood on the Sears Tower?

  60. Al or AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot, could you change the font used on the site to something where "I" and "l" do not look the same?

    Thank you.

  61. My manhole vents dangerous explosions... by dogzdik · · Score: 0

    I feel much better afterwards tho.

    --

    .

    Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.

  62. Old solutions by Tuor · · Score: 1

    The old London sewer system had a system of gas lamps atop flues that drew the air out of the sewers, and the flame helped reduce the odor of the sewer gases. Most of these sewer problems have been looked at for a couple thousand years now. Electric wires are a new addition, but I'm sure that other ignition sources were problems before.

    I'm actually surprised that several hundred gas explosions that rocket 300 pound discs of steel into populated areas is considered so minor, but perhaps the chances of death are much less then I would expect.

    --
    I love my computer -- You make me feel alright (Bad Religion)