Wine 1.2 Released

David Gerard writes "Stuck with that one Windows app you can't get rid of? Rejoice — Wine 1.2 is officially released! Apart from running pretty much any Windows application on Unix better than 1.0 (from 2008), major new features include 64-bit support, bi-directional text, and translation into thirty languages. And, of course, DirectX 9 is well-supported and DirectX 10 is getting better. Packages should hit the distros over the weekend, or you can get the source now."

Comments

Hmmmm.

[click2005]

DirectX 10 is getting better.

I wish someone would port Wine to WindowsXP.

Re:Hmmmm.

[Batty0ne]

It's happening. You can actually somewhat use wine on windows. http://wiki.winehq.org/WineOnWindows

Re:Hmmmm.

[suso]

7 isn't bad if you turn Aero off. I'm posting this from a Windows 7 netbook, "Windows Classic" theme.

HAHA! This sounds exactly like a Linux apologist from 5 to 10 years ago.

"Linux isn't bad as long as you don't try to play anything proprietary like a flash video or avi. And as long as you buy the right sound card and video card, you'll be fine."

Re:Hmmmm.

[arcade]

Some of us wasn't appologetical about it.

I've been a linux-only user since 1999. In that time, I've gone from KDE 1.X to 4.X (Okay, 4.x is still crap, 3.x was better :-). I've been through a huge load of linux distros (slack, debian, redhat, suse, mandrake, ubuntu, etc).

I don't regret it. I have a system I understand. I've learned way more about how computers and the internet works, than I would have if I had stayed with windows.

There certainly are things in Linux that aren't entirely up to scratch, even to this day. Sound is one of them. While there is plenty of options, they all suck in different and all non-interesting ways.

And then of course there is the problem of games. While there does exist a few, it is rather annoying to have to go through hoops with wine to get the games to run properly.

But would I switch back? I think not. The first thing I do when my computer is booted is to fire up a couple of xterms, since that's where I do most of my stuff. I can understand that not everyone wants be fiddling around in "the terminal" all the time, but that's where I feel at home. :-)

Re:Hmmmm.

[TheRaven64]

Probably because he never used Windows 2K.

Re:Every windows application

[KDEnut]

That's what wineprefix is for.

Well, that and copious amounts of prayer.

I used to use wine...

[foxtyke]

Long ago when I first switched to Linux I made the decision that I would not run a dual boot environment and would instead use Wine to run my apps I NEEDED from Windows on my Linux machine.

Fast forward six months from that switch, I removed the NEEDED applications because I found better ones (hello GnuCash) and haven't used a Windows application or required Wine since then, that was almost 3 or 4 years ago now when I fully switched my desktop to Linux.

Re:I used to use wine...

[foxtyke]

Gosh, you're SO L33T!

Why do you think the rest of us care?

I know its bad to feed the trolls but here's a thought...

My experience has shown me that I don't need Windows apps as much as I though I needed them, I found better alternatives and while Wine is great at some point you just have to sit back and wonder, "Is it worth it?"

I went through updates which broke previously working applications, I went through configuration edit after edit for each application to get things working and at one point just decided to look for a better way. Don't get me wrong Wine is great for beginning Linux but it really shows the flaws in many Windows programs and with closed source, you can stumble onto one at random even if you're coding to established API for compatibility.

So why my comment? I commented because I felt it showed that Wine helps break the reliance on Windows applications, it's great for transition but not for long haul requirements and I'm not commenting for the sake of commenting, a review of my account can attest to that. You however seem to enjoy placing your finger up your rear trying to tickle the back of your throat hoping something worthwhile will eventually come out of your mouth.

Too bad it is a miss today for you but thankfully, I'm at least not an anonymous coward like you.

Re:I used to use wine...

[foxtyke]

That's great for you and all, but almost every PC game that has ever been released is a testament to why Wine is still necessary (even if not necessary for some).

My words only express my experience, nothing more and nothing less.

I encourage those whom play Windows games to use Wine, to get Crossover Games and tell the game publishers, if you have a problem, call it in to support, go to their forums, make a little bit of noise showing your support for the game and your platform of choice, just don't be insane about it.

By all means use the tools available and work to make them better, give your feedback and help support those who work to support your gaming. Don't think that just because you've switched that you can't continue to enjoy your computer as you've done in the past.

And while it may not be perfect, if you're adamant about it and help others on official forums, you show that the market can be viable and that the risk for exploring it can be negligible especially given our normal distribution methods for software over the Internet.

Re:Every windows application

[Lennie]

I think Wine needs a usability team. Some kind of gui/tooling to make things easier for newbies to Wine.

Never Works Properly

[Anonymous Coward]

Apart from running pretty much any Windows application

Except the one you want to run requires about 5 hours of fucking around with Wine only to get about 70% of the functionality working and only 40% of the performance despite having being listed as GOLD PLATINUM UNOBTAINIUM in the wine-db. Hurray!

Re:Never Works Properly

[icebraining]

The summary doesn't say it runs "pretty much any Windows application", it says it runs "pretty much any Windows application better than Wine 1.0".

Re:Never Works Properly

[Jorl17]

I've used Wine for a long time. I've modified its source-code several times to make my apps run and I'm usually around the winehq.org forums.
I can say with a high degree of confidence that it runs most applications flawlessly. Of course, you need to remove many of the new .NET crap, which is ruining the industry for everyone. The only issues I found Wine to have were related to sound. Progressively, I fixed those and got the best out of my Wine installations. Heck, when I cross-compile, I always test my apps in Wine and verify that they are 1:1 with Windows. I constantly run different games in Wine and sometimes with better performance than my windows peers.

Occasionally, you'll have to bring out the nerd in you and do some hacking to get games to work. For instance, it was a long process for me to get Red Alert 3 to work online and via LAN. The forums helped me a lot. It was also difficult to get Age Of Empires III to run, but I did it.

I am only sorry that so many people end up bashing Wine. If they'd waste part of that time in contributing to the community, submitting patches, helping out in forums and irc, or simply stopping complaining, I think we'd be better.

Re:Never Works Properly

[David Gerard]

"I am only sorry that so many people end up bashing Wine."

It's because no-one complains worse than the people getting something for free.

Re:Never Works Properly

[ProzacPatient]

I'd prefer to bash Wine because you get a better idea of whats going on when you run it from the terminal.

*ducks*

Re:Every windows application

[Kell Bengal]

Yeah! Something with a GUI front end, and separate windows for each program... and a start menu. Oh, wait.

Re:Every windows application

[h4rr4r]

buy crossover. That is why they sell it.

Re:Are IE 7 or 8 useable?

[MrEricSir]

IE 7 and 8 are not usable, but that has nothing to do with Wine.

Re:Any success stories with Wine

[Dunbal]

AFAIK Wine and Cedega are still ahead of virtual machines in terms of graphics drivers and gaming. Wine is far from dead.

Re:StarCraft

[Randle_Revar]

I saw recently that a fix went in to make shadows work correctly in SC2. I guess that probably means it works ok.

Re:people still use wine?

[Jorl17]

No. From what I've seen, Wine has acquired more and more users recently. You can clearly see that based on forum activity or even commit numbers.

Virtual Machines are slow, no matter what. They require a windows license and they suck when it comes to D3D and even OpenGL. Wine fixes that. It is POSIX-compatible, AFAIK, and it is an excellent study case. It helps people migrate to differet OS/es and it doesn't eat up half your RAM just to launch a crapload of services that come in your typical Windows installation. I've tried both things: VMs and Wine. Once I saw how faster Wine was, and how it never crashed my system, in contrast to the many BSODs I got with games in the VM (direct accelaration enabled), I never looked back.

Also, I like being able to quirk with Wine's code. If I don't like something in an app, I debug it and change Wine to have fun. I can't do that in a VM unless I recompile some core libs (or port Wine's to Windows), but that would be stupid.

Re:Every windows application

[David Gerard]

You want Crossover.

(Buying Crossover funds Wine, by the way - half the Wine devs work for Codeweavers.)

Re:Are IE 7 or 8 useable?

[MrEricSir]

As we're referring to IE, the antecedent of your proposition is false therefore the consequent does not apply.

Re:Replacement to DOSBox?

[BobNET]

Anyone expecting their 20-year-old legacy system to run on a modern OS is insane.

...or a Linux user. DOSEMU+FreeDOS is awesome for old apps (games still run better in DOSBox, though).

Re:Replacement to DOSBox?

[1u3hr]

Anyone expecting their 20-year-old legacy system to run on a modern OS is insane.

I do half my work using 1980s DTP software (Ventura GEM). Runs in XP fine full screen in glorious VGA resolution. Prints to Postscript which my HP laser can print as-is; and I can convert to to PDF if I need to exchange files with anyone.

Old software doesn't wear out; it just gets faster as hardware gets exponentially more powerful.

But I will look at running it under Wine, probably a safer bet in the long term than hoping Microsoft doesn't break it.

No people complain when you over claim

[Sycraft-fu]

Wine, and in particular Wine fanboys, sell it as a sure fire way to run Windows apps on Linux. They happily point to success stories and say "See you can ditch Windows, just run your stuff in Wine! Look how well Office runs!" People then try it and discover three things:

1) It is complex as all get out. You don't just go and start Wine and run a Windows installer to put your application on. No, it is way fucking complex in many cases. Even people familiar with virtualization are amazed at how complex it gets.

2) It works poorly in many cases. A "working" app in Wine speak seems to mean "runs". It may have massive glitches. Most people take working to mean "Works fully with some minor glitches." Even so of the top apps have some rather noticeable glitches.

3) Plenty of stuff doesn't work at all, and there's no readily apparent reason. It just fails.

For example I was trying to move to a Linux desktop at work, to learn more about Linux and its working in our setup. However, being work, I had to be able to get everything done. So I tried Linux AV software and it was crap, couldn't do what I needed to do. I went and asked our Linux head if he'd be willing to help see if Wine could run Sony Vegas. He said sure. After 3 days of fairly intense work and research, he said no, he could find no way to make it run. He was pretty good too, he didn't blow this off he really tried.

So that's why people get mad. Wine shouldn't be marketed as a Windows compatibility layer. Wine is more of an experimental program that can help some Windows software run sometimes. If you want to get your hands dirty and mess around with some complex stuff, maybe it can make things happen. However it is not a friendly compatibility layer that you install and suddenly Windows apps can be run just like on Windows with ease.

People get mad because it is oversold, and because it is something they want. They hear "Windows on Linux," and get all excited. They can use Linux now and not have to sacrifice their computer experience. Then they try it and find no, they can't actually and get real angry.

Re:No people complain when you over claim

[Draek]

Really? in my experience nearly all mentions of Wine are along the lines of "hey, it's fairly hit-or-miss but perhaps Wine can help you, give it a try" rather than "use Wine, it can run every Windows app flawlessly!". Hell, even Wine's own website states that it doesn't run everything so where you got the hype from I have no idea.

And in Wine's favor, my experience with them have been that nearly all apps either work out-of-the-box or don't at all. The ones that work-but-require-a-day-of-editing-config-files are more of a rarity that can be safely ignored by normal people since that issue will most likely be fixed by next version anyways. And if you absolutely *need* some specific app right here right now, well, you should've used VirtualBox to begin with.