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An Unprecedented Look At Apple's "Black Labs"

An anonymous reader writes "Apple recently granted ABC Nightline unprecedented access to its secretive 'black labs' where it puts upcoming products through exhaustive testing."

125 comments

  1. Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Chas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe their testing isn't, exactly, "exhaustive".

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
    1. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they mean "exhausted." I would suffer retinal exhaustion pretty quickly if I looked at shiny chrome and other polished objects all day!

    2. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by nomadic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Considering the past 20 years of structural design flaws, as well.

    3. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by cpscotti · · Score: 1

      That's not the case..
      To put something like that into market they NEED to do extensive testing.
      The thing with apple is that it just wasn't enough testing... so it wasn't AS exhaustive as the one RIM, Nokia or Motorola does.

    4. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 5, Funny

      Have you EVER tried to exhaust a Black Lab? I mean, your Golden Retriever may be something to talk about.

      But the Lab? They're indefatigable!

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    5. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either that or it is so exhaustive that the engineers are knackered when they get to the antenna tests.

    6. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hence allowing the news media in to see their cool lab so they can get the masses thinking, "oh, wow - they really DID test the phone and antenna and maybe Jobs is right about the 0.55% of people being all that are having the non-existent problem."

    7. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by xclay · · Score: 1

      especially if you're sitting on a rotating chair while holding it right in front of your face all day in a sound chamber.... poor guy.

    8. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Maybe they need to get out of that Faraday cage. Then they might find out whether or not their products actually work.

    9. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by MrNaz · · Score: 1

      This "inside look" given to the ABC is just more PR spin to offset the iPhone 4 stink.

      "Hey look how good our testing is. So you see, it *can't* be a product defect, it must be AT&T's network or a software glitch or somehow the fault of Nokia/RIM/Samsung. Can't be us, no siree, we have 'black labs' to do our exhaustive testing."

      --
      I hate printers.
    10. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      Maybe their testing isn't, exactly, "exhaustive".

      Just because the iPhone 4 has antenna problems doesn't mean they weren't known about beforehand and dismissed as "not enough to break the reality distortion field".

    11. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by nomadic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uhh.... A battery failure that wasn't their fault and unsightly fine cracks? You fanboys have resorted to just making things up, havnt you. Go play halo er something.

      Uh oh, I made one of them mad. Hopefully he didn't spill his organic espresso on his vintage Ramones t-shirt, or his underemployed coworkers down at the indie record store will make fun of him.

      Out of the two macs I've owned, one ultimately died because the power supply burnt out (which has never happened with any of the dozen or so PCs I've owned in my life), and the other, a macbook, stopped sending data to the screen because of a poorly designed hinge (Apple fixed it once, but would not fix it the second time it happened).

      And maybe I WILL play Halo when I get home. It's an excellent game.

    12. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Chas · · Score: 1

      Like I said...

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    13. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Meski · · Score: 1

      ok, it is off-topic, but somewhat funny.

    14. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by bandmassa · · Score: 1

      Hmm, it's illegal to berate people on the basis of race so the bigots all buy PCs and spout crap about "typical" Mac users instead these days. Your type used to hang "strange fruit" from Alabaman trees barely 100 years ago, therefore your ideas count for nothing.

      If any of you PC bigots have ever owned an Apple product I might listen to your "product advice" about build quality, but I'll choose the "poor reliability" of my Macbook at home over the "mission critical performance" of the Dell on my desk at work, anyday.

      Organic espresso? Go fuck yourself.

      --
      "I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
    15. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by nomadic · · Score: 1

      If any of you PC bigots have ever owned an Apple product I might listen to your "product advice" about build quality

      If you had actually read my response you would notice that (a) I said my opinion was based partially on the mac products I've owned; and (b) I was referencing STRUCTURAL DESIGN FLAWS, not build quality.

      Organic espresso? Go fuck yourself.

      Oooh, hit close to home there, huh?

    16. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Structural design flaws is just a wanky, latte drinking term for build quality, and no, not close to a nerve about coffee, mostly drink black instant

  2. Exhaustive testing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Just too easy... does exhaustive testing include: HOLDING THE PHONE?

    Apparently not.

    1. Re:Exhaustive testing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Don't blame the testers. They did their job. Blame the guy that decided to launch the product despite its known performance issues.

    2. Re:Exhaustive testing? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't blame the testers

      It's not a problem with testers, it's a lack of testees.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:Exhaustive testing? by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      Don't blame the testers

      It's not a problem with testers, it's a lack of testees.

      Or ignoring the testers.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    4. Re:Exhaustive testing? by Tejin · · Score: 1

      Steve Jobs has plenty of testees, did you see his "Don't hold it that way" response? Testes of steel.

      --
      The seekers do no need truth, the seekers do find truth and the finding do be painful
    5. Re:Exhaustive testing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      blame it on the tasteless sodomites that buy the plastic tat in the first place.

      what's really laughable is the myth that 'designers' tend to go for apple. well yes, maybe the type of 'designer' that likes the hideous web 2.0 icons and design aesthetic that are all over their sickly saccharine interfaces.

  3. This is going to be posted quite a bit. by Adaeniel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apparently, their exhaustive testing doesn't actually include using the product.

    1. Re:This is going to be posted quite a bit. by ahankinson · · Score: 1, Funny

      Apparently posting about it doesn't require using the product either.

    2. Re:This is going to be posted quite a bit. by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Funny

      Apparently posting about it doesn't require using the product either.

      You must be new here... it doesn't even require reading about the product, let alone using it.

    3. Re:This is going to be posted quite a bit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But their test groups loved how it looked! How can you say that's not exhaustive testing from their art labs?

    4. Re:This is going to be posted quite a bit. by PsychoElf · · Score: 1

      Hell, I don't even know what product we're talking about!

    5. Re:This is going to be posted quite a bit. by Albatrosses · · Score: 1

      There's a product?

    6. Re:This is going to be posted quite a bit. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Any product, it doesn't matter, somebody will trash it without any knowledge whatever.

  4. Apple's Black Labs: by not+already+in+use · · Score: 5, Funny

    Where Apple tests for flaws in other phones to justify the flaws in their own phones.

    --
    Similes are like metaphors
    1. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by Keebler71 · · Score: 1

      No joke... I'll bet recently their competitors' phones have been in these labs more than the iPhone 4g (to "prove" that they have similar problems)

      --
      "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
    2. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by Alistair+Hutton · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      And even then they have to fake it by showing (at least one) phone(s) that were on minimal battery power and had thus entered a power saving mode.

      --
      Puzzle Daze is now my job
    3. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by Lars+T. · · Score: 0

      No joke... I'll bet recently their competitors' phones have been in these labs more than the iPhone 4g (to "prove" that they have similar problems)

      How silly of them - they could have just gone to YouTube and found tons of videos showing that.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    4. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do they mix up the kool-aid in the black labs?

      wasn't this site meant to be 'news for nerds', and not 'news for sad pathetic little consumerists'

    5. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by Lars+T. · · Score: 0, Troll

      wasn't this site meant to be 'news for nerds', and not 'news for sad pathetic little consumerists'

      And what, pray tell, qualifies you as a "nerd"? The fact that you can't accept that all phones have a "death grip"?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    6. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 1

      So these days phones are dying even before their batteries are over, is that what you're sayin?

    7. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by AmonTheMetalhead · · Score: 1

      I haven't found the one on my HTC Legend yet...

    8. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Out of interest, I tried the grip of death on my work Blackberry, and I couldn't get more than a 10db signal drop worst case, whereas the iPhone 4 averages a 20 db drop according to Anandtech.

      http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

      Also, the Blackberry includes a numeric display of the signal strength, rather than only displaying the data only via a possibly-fiddled-by-the-marketing-department bar chart.

    9. Re:Apple's Black Labs: by Lars+T. · · Score: 0, Troll

      Out of interest, I tried the grip of death on my work Blackberry, and I couldn't get more than a 10db signal drop worst case, whereas the iPhone 4 averages a 20 db drop according to Anandtech.

      http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

      Also, the Blackberry includes a numeric display of the signal strength, rather than only displaying the data only via a possibly-fiddled-by-the-marketing-department bar chart.

      So how much signal did your Blackberry have compared to the iPhone before any touching started?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  5. teehee by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    where it puts upcoming products through exhaustive testing

    Does that involve letting Apple fanboys and Apple haters handle the devices, just to be sure they can make sufficiently outrageous claims about the product?

  6. For those of us not in the US and Hulu'd up.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq6sjH1W7hA

    1. Re:For those of us not in the US and Hulu'd up.. by alphax45 · · Score: 1

      Thank you!

      --
      K Man
    2. Re:For those of us not in the US and Hulu'd up.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq6sjH1W7hA

      Seriously, how lazy do you have to be to not make that a proper link?

    3. Re:For those of us not in the US and Hulu'd up.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gracias... Danke... Merci... Grazie... Obrigado... Arigato...

  7. ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by Dynamoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ABC is owned by Disney. Steve Jobs owns 138 million Disney shares or about $4.7bn worth of stock. Anyone else think it odd that Disney is running a puff piece for one of its major shareholders?

    --
    Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
    1. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      No, it's Jobs using his advantages. While Jobs owns that many shares, it is about 7% of Disney. He is the largest single stockholder. However, his place on the Disney board might be of more influence. Is it unfair for him to use that position? Perhaps. But judging by the large amount of press coverage this issue has gotten, it is also a scoop for any news outlet that would have gotten access.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyone else think it odd that Disney is running a puff piece for one of its major shareholders?

      Somewhere around 5 media companies control about 99% of what the general population sees, hears, reads, and frankly, thinks.

      So, if a rich dude invests in a major media company, then pretty much by definition there is about a 1 in 5 chance that a report from a major media outlet will be covering one of their own shareholders.

      Its not like we have a free market of numerous equal competitors trying to push commodities in the media world.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Somewhere around 5 media companies control about 99% of what the general population sees, hears, reads, and frankly, thinks.

      Unfortunately, (or not) Geeknet, Inc is not one of these 5 companies.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by hitmark · · Score: 1

      tho the shares may allow jobs and apple marketing more say in the final presentation then they would get with any other outlet.

      and heck, its fun to see apples press presence backfire on them, as i claim they get much more (especially outside the tech press, where they are virtually the only company talked about beyond stock market trends) coverage then their market presence should make one think (but then their products are old school in media creation circles).

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    5. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you mean "Steve Jobs ordered ABC News to run a puff piece on the iPhone 4 to help Apple PR" when you say odd, then no. The news divisions have editorial independence (or at least should have) from their owners. Even then, to break journalistic integrity in such a blatantly obvious way is just plain stupid. N.B.: While 138 mil shares may seem a lot, it's only 7% of Disney, albeit making him the largest single shareholder. Major institutional investors with an activist bent, like CalPERS, would most certainly object.
      That being said, there is a relationship there, and imho, because of that perceived (or alleged, if you want) conflict of interest, a different network might have been a better choice to grant access to.

    6. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      I think part of the press coverage is the fact they don't do a lot of interviews and stories. When they do grant media access, it's a big deal to anyone who can get it.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    7. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      However, his place on the Disney board might be of more influence.

      I might be tempted to add that perhaps his influence might be better spent on impressionable children.

      Oh wait...

    8. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by hitmark · · Score: 1

      indeed, unless most other companies, apple is downright coy.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    9. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by Lars+T. · · Score: 1
      There is one tiny flaw with your argument - http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/07/18/1239249

      See that? On the same day, 16th of July, they funneled dozens of journalists through those "Black Labs". Now this may have been the only one who has video footage - but lets face it: this is a DUPE

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    10. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the Carver Media Group!

      Making Tomorrow's headlines Today!

    11. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by bynary · · Score: 1

      Disney owns ABC. Disney owns Pixar. Steve Jobs sold Pixar to Disney. Pixar is now in charge of Disney animation studios. Steve Jobs is on the Board of Directors as part of the negotiations over Pixar. I don't think it's odd at all. In fact, if I had that much sway in a media conglomerate I would definitely use it to promote my new products or to help put out PR fires.

      --
      http://www.bynarystudio.com
    12. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by cusco · · Score: 1

      "News" divisions haven't had editorial independence for years. Editors who display any sort of independence get canned, especially if they piss off an advertising customer with a budget the size of Apple. I suppose the Ayn Rand fanbois will declare that this is rightful and just, since they'd be damaging shareholder value by chasing off prospective ad revenue, but it just seems slimy to me. That's why actual investigative reporters like Greg Palast have to leave the country to work, no one will employ a muckraker in the US any more. Too financially risky.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  8. Sorry this news story is for US citizens only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    where's the video that I am allowed to watch ?

    1. Re:Sorry this news story is for US citizens only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the net somehow knows that you are a US Citizen? So Americans living abroad can see this video just fine because of this special technology? Do USA-ians have a chip embedded in them that performs a Diffie Hellman key exchange to ensure absolutely only US Citizens can see this story??
      (I'm a Canadian citizen so I can't see this story)

    2. Re:Sorry this news story is for US citizens only by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      it's where that missing flash plugin icon is on the webpage

  9. Sorry, it's US only. by Moskit · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Video of the "unprecedented look" is hosted on Hulu, which allows only US viewers.

    Racists! ;-)

    1. Re:Sorry, it's US only. by AlexCold · · Score: 0, Redundant
    2. Re:Sorry, it's US only. by Moskit · · Score: 1

      Thank you :-)

      Pity that editors did not notice the limitation and provide a YT version.

    3. Re:Sorry, it's US only. by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Oh, they noticed, surely enough. It's just that they couldn't give a rat's ass about anyone outside the US. Much like The Register is UK-centric, Slashdot is a US-centric rag.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  10. Hey look, damage reduction! by kyz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder how much it costs to get your damage-limiting press release videos on to national television?

    Apple are the brand that never make any mistakes. EXCEPT WHEN THEY DO. But that's because everybody makes mistakes, not just Apple.

    It's important to know: all phones are susceptible to the "death grip"... it's just a tiny minor detail, not really worth mentioning, that the iPhone 4 "death grip" is "holding it normally in your left hand".

    --
    Does my bum look big in this?
    1. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Joe+U · · Score: 2, Funny

      that the iPhone 4 "death grip" is "holding it normally in your left hand".

      Wait a sec, doesn't everyone use a rubber band to hold the phone to their head nowadays?

    2. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Apple's demo videos seem faked. I have a friend with a Droid X and another with an Eris (I personally have a Nexus One - which is very similar to the Eris) - both of which seem to have negligible signal loss no matter how I hold them (at first using their video as a reference). Eris dropped a whopping 6 db signal when I held both hands around the bottom of the phone - and I have really sweaty hands most of the time. There really is no way to just hold the phone like normal or even abnormal and go from full signal to zero.

      The Droid-X actually has two antennas - one at the top and bottom - holding both had similar effect.

      I've only been able to handle one iPhone 4 - and just touching the two antennas on the gap for me (again sweaty hands) causes reasonably large signal loss (I really don't know because unlike Android the iPhone doesn't have an actual s-meter buried anywhere it seems).

    3. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's more than that: All antennae in the frequency bands used by cellphones will suffer some attenuation if your meaty hands are wrapped around them. You are absorbing a chunk of the radiation. This applies to all brands, and is why many cellphones have an area, or areas, they encourage you not to touch during use. Typically, phones are designed so that you won't tend to hold this part during routine use.

      On the iPhone 4, the antenna is external and does not have a dielectric coating. In addition to attenuating the signal with their meaty consumer-hands, the user can actually modify the performance characteristics of the antenna(for the worse); by being conductive enough to count as part of it, or by bridging the two sections.

      Apple has, naturally, been doing their best to conflate these two distinct antenna issues. All phones suffer from finger-meat signal attenuation. The iPhone is pretty much the only phone in the industry that has an exposed, externally conductive, antenna. Even the old-school designs with external pull-up antennas generally had those coated with plastic, and the user was hardly encouraged to hold the phone by a flexible extending antenna, rather than by the body.

    4. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is more or less exactly what I was thinking as soon as I saw the title.

      Thanks to the stink over the iPhone, Apple is desperate for any good press they can get. By making it look like they're some kind of special super high tech testers (when in fact they're probably little different form other companies) they get people to go "Oh them Apples, they do good work."

      It's a smokescreen meant to continue their confusion and disinformation about the iPhone until public goodwill returns. Expect another 3-4 months of Apple throwing out "unprecedented" interviews "never before seen in the cellphone world."

      Do you know why it was never before seen? Because WE DIDN'T CARE. I'm more than a little bit sure that both A) The news never gave a shit about asking to see into this kind of thing for any other company and never asked for such privileges before and B) APPLE was likely the one who crafted this entire news piece to make themselves look good.

      Expect public good feeling for about 2 months then absolute fallout due to unforseen consequences within the next 6-12 months.

    5. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Joe+U · · Score: 4, Funny

      There really is no way to just hold the phone like normal or even abnormal and go from full signal to zero.

      Sorry, you're wrong, after holding the Eris with both hands, and feet, underwater, on top of a mesa while in a Faraday cage I experienced significant signal loss. While in comparison, I saw absolutely no signal loss after using the new bumper Apple issued (while attached to the 12 ft iTenna, but most iphone users have at least one of them)

    6. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the workaround is to be less conductive?

      In other news does anyone have any idea if there are any brands of spray paint which are a good dielectric?

    7. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      This whole fiasco is really
      1 part Engineering Mistake by Apple (Placing the week spot in an easy to use spot)
      2 parts Anti-Apple fan-boyism (We want to feel cool and smart for choosing an Android phone over the Iphone).
      1 part Apple Competitor egging on.
      1 part viral internet spreading
      1 part non-geek reproducible allowing for non-geeks to confirm the problem, it is easy to show and copy.
      1 part customer problems

      Yes Apple Messed up... But it isn't a huge mistake. I have seen Apple Mess up on their designs for much bigger problems then this.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by kaiser423 · · Score: 5, Informative

      +1. Mod parent up. I think that the iPhone is a great phone, but as an RF engineer I'm tired of two people conflating the issue. The issue with the iPhone is that some RF engineer lost a fight and there's no conductive coating, so you effectively bridge two antennas if you happen to touch a specific spot. That's a totally different problem from the "my hand is absorbing the radiation and weakly coupling to the antenna" that all phones have.

    9. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by dogzilla · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't have an iPhone 4, but I've been following this pretty closely as I'm interesting in buying one. One thing I note is a similarity between what many people report with the iPhone and what you describe with the Droid X. This is borne out by those people I personally know who already own an iPhone 4 - none of them have reported a problem in daily use. Two of 4 report being able to cause the issue although it doesn't affect them in normal use, the other 2 can't seem to replicate the issue. I don't personally know any Droid X owners. This really feels like a silly manufactured issue that now has a life of its own with the sniping back and forth. I have a lot of trouble believing that a major company like Apple would fake a video with a competitor's product though. Maybe back in the days of Edison and Tesla, but I don't buy that anyone would do that today.

      --
      The crimes of eBay are a disgrace to it's pig latin heritage!
    10. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by dzfoo · · Score: 0, Troll

      Although you may be right, this is only a problem if the calls get dropped. And it is not so certain that they will as a result of the new antenna design, except in areas where the signal is weak to begin with.

      This is Jobs' point, not necessarily conflating two separate issues. In essence, he is saying "something causes our phones to attenuate signal, but something causes all phones to attenuate signal." The fact that these two somethings are different is not really relevant.

      What's relevant is the degree to which it affects call performance. So far, Apple's assertion is that the iPhone 4 seems have generally better call quality than the previous version--because and not in spite of its antenna design.

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    11. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by jkoke · · Score: 1

      Another anecdote to offer support to what you're saying. I was at a poker game the other night and noticed that two of the other guys also had iPhone 4s. I asked them about their reception and both said they hadn't had any problems and couldn't replicate the problem -- neither one was using a case. I have a case on my phone now, but I used it without a case for 3 weeks and was able to reproduce the bar drop one time when I was in a fairly weak signal area. It dropped from 3 bars to 1. I haven't dropped a call in the month that I've owned the phone.

      I think this is a real issue that affects a very small percentage of owners of the phone.

    12. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Wait a sec, doesn't everyone use a rubber band to hold the phone to their head nowadays?

      No, most people I know use Tarzan-Grip.

    13. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      Mod parent WAY up. The issues with the iPhone 4 has *nothing* to do with human hands absorbing RF radiation, and everything with having two exposed antennas right there where it's supposed to be gripped by the user. Theres a good reason why it's the only phone on the market with this "feature".

    14. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I held my friends iPhone 4 the wrong way and nothing happened no bars lost. I bridged the gap and still nothing except one bar going down.

      I also tried it with my BB curve it does go down maybe one or two bars not much.

      I tried with my bros SE Z600 I believe one bar.

      Nothing major across all phones, moving from one room to another wi cause the signal to change by similar amounts.

      I live outside the US and I don't recall having a dropped call in the last years. The only places where I will lose calls is when I'm a couple of stories underground, or in ths on spot next to my home where everyone loses there signal, it's not a big spot just a street corner.

      Anyway my point is that your milliage will vary, my tests were not scientific.

    15. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      In other news does anyone have any idea if there are any brands of spray paint which are a good dielectric?

      Any sprayable lacquer will do just fine, thing is, it won't last too long. You might want to try some Kapton tape...

    16. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      It's totally relevant why the issue occurs, since one is a minor issue, and the other is a guaranteed dropped call.

    17. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Except that it isn't a guaranteed dropped call. It's a drop in reception, which may cause a dropped call. Similarly, attenuation can result in a dropped call, although its effects are generally less severe.

      From the user's point of view, the important thing is that the iPhone 4 has an unusually large drop in performance when touched at a certain spot. Nothing else matters.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    18. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by thoromyr · · Score: 0

      Don't even bother trying to have a discussion. The Apple haters are out in force, and they want blood. Never mind that a non-Apple analysis found significantly greater signal drop in the worst case and that it provided better reception at equal signal strength, focus on the "greater signal drop" and bash, bash, bash.

      (I bash Apple when they are wrong, not just because its fun to join the group think.)

    19. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      It may guarantee a drop in signal strength, but not a dropped call. A dropped call will occur as a result of this issue when the signal is weak to begin with. However, since the iPhone has higher sensitivity than other phones at lower signal strengths, this issue is still mitigated.

            -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    20. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Wow, "troll"? Really? A response that qualifies and adds perspective to a previous post a "troll"?

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    21. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More from the anecdote department...

      I've had my iPhone 4 for a few weeks now and I've only been able to reproduce the issue when deliberately trying to cause the issue. And, even then, it's only when I've got a very specific signal strength. Meanwhile, I used to get dropped calls at my home constantly on my iPhone 3G, but the 4 gets a stronger signal to the point where I haven't dropped a single call yet.

      Honestly, my biggest complaint is that the glass on the front and back is too slippery and it's hard to set it down without it sliding off onto the floor. I've tried to use GPS maps in the car like I did with my 3G and I have a hard time keeping it resting in my lap. So when Jobs announced the free case program, I jumped at it since a case will solve my slipperiness problem. It might also have some effect on signal strength, but damned if I care.

    22. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Apple's demo videos seem faked. I have a friend with a Droid X and another with an Eris (I personally have a Nexus One - which is very similar to the Eris) - both of which seem to have negligible signal loss no matter how I hold them (at first using their video as a reference).

      Steve's only telling a half lie (half truth for the optimistic fanboys).

      He's right in that all phones drop signal when being held but normally it's imperceptible. The effect tends to become less pronounced the closer you get to a signal source (the tower). Normally phones lose about 3-7 dBm when held, this can become as high as 10-15 dBm when you have a bad signal but the Iphone4 loses 20-25 dBm when other phones lose 3-7 dBm. This looks like the Iphone4 is suffering approximately 4 times the interference from the same source (but this also is not true, the Iphone has another problem). Other phones do not have the grip of death issue despite Apple's claims.

      The Iphone4's biggest issue is it's external antenna. As the fanboys at Anandtech asserted just wearing a glove will reduce the signal loss to normal levels. This assertion is supported the popular theory that touching an exposed antenna with a bare hand increases the electrical length. Electrical length determines what frequencies an antenna receives and transmits on. This is where most of the signal is going, as a person touches the antenna the antenna changes frequency and has more difficulty transmitting and receiving. We've know about the affect of bare metal antenna's for some time. Those of us who predate digital TV remember adjusting antenna's and tuning them. Bare metal antenna's are great for receiving a poor signal but need to be fine tuned as they are also quite vulnerable to interference, you cannot do this with a mobile phone as it needs to transmit and receive on an very narrow frequency band. We've known about this since the 1930's, mobile phone antenna's have almost always been shielded because of this.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  11. Hulu sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Ugh, Video is from Hulu and is region restricted.

  12. It's like a golden ticket! by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    Except Steve will have you shot in the head if you don't do what he says, instead of just turning you into a blueberry.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  13. I can't get to the link. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1
    So, what this about Apple's black labrador retrievers?

    Cute dogs always makes people happy.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

  14. Puh-lease! by Trip6 · · Score: 0, Troll

    OMG, when will the Apple spin machine take a fricking rest? Secretive "black labs?" Sure they aren't killer canines?

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
    1. Re:Puh-lease! by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Apple's main product is spun hype. Their physical products are just the dongle. So it shouldn't surprise anybody that their spin machine never takes a rest.

  15. Anti-Internet Territorial blocking by ChocNut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Living in the past and breaking the international web with your territory blocking BS. Screw Hulu

  16. What's so special about labs that don't work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's so secret and special about testing labs that don't work and fail to test for common usage patterns like left handed people?

  17. WHATEVER YOU DO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Don't google the phrase "I'll be in my lab" with image search.

  18. Did they show em the... by Sinn3d · · Score: 1

    ...waterboard/torture room where they jog the memory of people who lose or misplace their prototypes?

  19. They are prioritizing the black labs by shikaisi · · Score: 1

    Apple are currently having manufacturing challenges with the white labs, but they'll be available to the public later this year.

    --
    No left turn unstoned.
    1. Re:They are prioritizing the black labs by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      The white ones will turn out to be valuable collectors items. Because the market demand for the product is dying * before the white ones can be brought to market. Look for 'White iPhone 4' to be a rare collectible on eBay in about 10 years.

      (*all the true-believers already have theirs. regular folks aren't going to buy a turkey)

  20. OK, this is a reach, but here goes... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Does that involve letting Apple fanboys and Apple haters handle the devices

    They can't let fanboys handle the devices, because then they have to run them through the autoclave and that messes up the electronics.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:OK, this is a reach, but here goes... by rjch · · Score: 1

      Does that involve letting Apple fanboys and Apple haters handle the devices

      They can't let fanboys handle the devices, because then they have to run them through the autoclave and that messes up the electronics.

      Fanbois have electronics? No, this can't be true. No fanboi would put themselves in the position where they could be called an Android...

  21. And yet, by Iburnaga · · Score: 1, Insightful

    And yet they still miss obvious bugs in design. Now, I'm an Apple hater, I admit it, I will never buy an Apple or encourage someone to do so. I don't imagine anyone would change their opinion about Apple after seeing their testing chamber that may or may not have been set up on the fly for the purposes of marketing.

    --
    iburnaga.blogspot.com
  22. Re:Considering ... by sonnejw0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think it's QC, not R&D. An Apple store recently opened near me so I got to play with some iPhone4's for a while in the store, and I might go back because I found some interesting things. Two iPhone4's right next to each other, one dropped to 0 bars in the store within 30 seconds of merely touching the antenna gap, the other one dropped 2 bars after a couple minutes of death gripping it. There was NO discernable exterior difference in the phones. I even scratched at the metal to try to see any noticeable polyvinyl coating on one v the other. At that point, the third "Genius" in a matter of 90 seconds asked if I needed any help, so I began to feel awkward poking at the phone (it was very busy in the store).

    I would not be surprised if one manufacturing plant in China has a poor Quality Control or Quality Assurance division that just is not doing their job. I've seen pictures of iPhones with reversed volume controls on the side, and this lends to that explanation, and to Apple's personal assurances that they've thoroughly tested these phones. A coating of some sort should be sufficient to abrogate any conductivity, and it does not make sense that Apple did not think of that. I might return and take a look at the batch numbers on the back of the iPhones I played with in the store. I'm still not buying one, because I have no idea if I'm going to get one that works or one that does not, and I'm not playing games with the return people. By the time they get it sorted out, if ever, the Next Big Thing will probably be out. I still own the original iPhone, because nothing has seemed worth the upgrade yet.

  23. Black robots... by __aayejd672 · · Score: 1

    ...with 3 steely fingers do the usability tests

  24. White labs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shouldn't there also be white labs, as they make their products in both black and white? Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

  25. That's a big claim... faked by hellfire · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is not a defense of Apple, but a statement about how large corporations work. I seriously doubt that the videos were completely faked. As with anything, the results can be spun or manipulated, but there has to be a least a shred of truth, or the lawyer attack dogs would be out by now.

    Apple basically called out every single smartphone developer and said "you all suck too!" and posted videos to "prove" it. Those companies all responded so far with nothing but the same tired PR statements. If Apple was actually slandering these other phones and faked the results entirely, I'm sure these companies would love to have some extra cash plus a chance to smear one of their biggest competitors.

    Now, Apple's video proof is mostly annecdotal since it's one phone and one hand. Yours is too, however. I know people who say they can't make the Apple Antenna issue happen on the iPhone 4, and I see videos on Youtube posted both before and after the iPhone 4 that point out signal loss issues with other smartphones. All of this evidence is, again, annecdotal.

    From a scientific standpoint, you have to admit Apple's doing a good job of basically trying to throw a bunch of "proof" out there and making people pick thru it. It stirs in just enough doubt to make everyone stop and think. The hard core haters and fanboys won't change their mind, but this is like election politics, it's not about swaying everyone, just trying to tilt the balance in their favor.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    1. Re:That's a big claim... faked by mjwx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is not a defense of Apple, but a statement about how large corporations work. I seriously doubt that the videos were completely faked. As with anything, the results can be spun or manipulated, but there has to be a least a shred of truth, or the lawyer attack dogs would be out by now.

      I have a very good idea as to how marketing works, I used to work for a marketing^W, sorry Corporate Communications company.

      It is far easier to fake the results you want then to go through an elaborate testing procedure and attempt to spin everything. When we need a picture that conveys a certain message we'll send it to the photoshop guys rather then waiting for the right time of day, hoping the weather is OK, meticulously establishing a set, taking a dozen pictures and hoping one is usable.

      Faking images is standard operating procedure. I have no doubt the significant drop in bars was a complete fabrication. Apple could not afford to play this one by chance and seeing as no-one has been able to replicated the issue as Apple presented it I doubt the results they showed were real.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  26. Re:Considering ... by hitmark · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i get the impression that apple want people to feel the coolness of brushed metal directly. Observe the metal back of the first iphone (before they found it to affect signal quality, and changed to plastic) and the ipad. Its almost as if its a company fetish.

    --
    comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  27. Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like how Apple only shows/tells us what it wants us to know/think.

  28. Next Activision game! by ninjacheeseburger · · Score: 2, Funny

    Call of Duty: Black Labs

    1. Re:Next Activision game! by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      In a soundproof room... nobody can hear you scream.

  29. Disappointingly by amliebsch · · Score: 1

    They did not show Sector C Test Labs & Control Facilities.

    --
    If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    1. Re:Disappointingly by mjwx · · Score: 1

      They did not show Sector C Test Labs & Control Facilities.

      They were about to bring the anti-mass spectrometer up to 110% power when Steve had to cut the tour short.

      However he promised to show them the Apple Enrichment Centre and provide cake on their next visit.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  30. This just in: by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    A top-secret photo of the Black Labs is here

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  31. free markets and consolidattion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its not like we have a free market of numerous equal competitors trying to push commodities in the media world.

    Of course there's a free market: all of these companies were free to consolidate.

    It would actually take a non-free market to fix things: you'd have to create rules about ownership limits to stop conglomerates from forming and to force the break up of current ones.

  32. "Black" labs? Just another plot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...perpetrated by THE MAN, to keep a brotha down. How come there's no "white" labs of even "redman" labs? Imma fast on to the fact that the WHITE MAN uses these labs to perpetrate, incarcerate and incinerate the soul of the strong colored man for his nefarious machinations. NEVER FORGET! NEVER FORGET!

    You will NEVER own me, white man.