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Long In Development, Toshiba 'SCiB' Battery Debuts
relliker notes Toshiba's announcement of the SCiB, a battery we have been following for years. (As usual, use NoScript to avoid the incredibly annoying timed begging popup on Gizmag's site.) Here is Toshiba's SCiB site. The battery's specs claim 6,000+ charge/deep-discharge cycles with minor capacity loss, safe rapid charging to 90% in 5 minutes, and enhanced safety regarding overheating or shorting out. It could make its way into electric vehicles before long.
SCIB = Super Charge Ion Battery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery
What's the catch?
...when does my laptop get one?
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
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CAN I HAS for my mobile phone please?
Seriously, it's a problem in the winter.
.: Max Romantschuk
i would not mind getting a electric trike for those "short" trips around the local area.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Toyota? Or Toshiba?
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Is Toyota really involved or do all Japanese companies look the same to you?
My original post's title did not have the company name in it :)
Why do they present it as "a rechargeable battery"? I mean, charged up to 90% of the capacity in 5 minutes... What was the marketing department thinking?
A 2kg battery pack is 24V for 4.2Ah. That's ~100wh
To match the Chevy Volt's 16Kwh You'd need around 160 of these. That's for a tiny 40mile range. These aren't going to be the main power source of a car any time soon
According to Wikipedia, the disadvantage compared to Lithium Ion batteries is that they store less energy in a given space/weight, which is why this tech may not extend to small devices such as laptops.
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According to this page they state "SCiBTM is a well-balanced battery that combines high power output and large capacity with power density almost equal to that of capacitors":
http://www.scib.jp/en/product/detail.htm
Also on this page, they state 96 watts per kilogram (12 volt x 8 amp):
http://www.scib.jp/en/product/spec.htm
Only 96 watts per kg? That's not close to a capacitor which is about 1000-10000 watts per kg. Maybe I'm missing something but what gives?
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The electric motor beats the combustion engine in every way: Simpler, more reliable, much more efficient, more powerful, smoother and leveler output of power over a wider range of RPMs, quieter, smaller, lighter weight, and much less expensive. The big reason we don't use them everywhere is lack of a way to store sufficient energy that is 1) cheap, 2) lightweight, 3) quickly refillable, 4) durable, 5) not bulky. The humble gas tank is far better than the batteries, fuel cells, ultra capacitors, and other things (like flywheels?) that we have now. Solve these problems and bring the battery to the point where it is at least competitive with the gas tank even if still a little inferior, and powering cars with gasoline will be history so fast that the oil companies won't know what hit them.
Overhyped breakthroughs that really aren't are legion. But often it really does happen. 2009 was the year of the LCD. I'm still astonished at how quickly the CRT vanished last year. Over the last decade, the incandescent light bulb was pushed into niche applications as compact fluorescents took over But seems they won't reign long with LEDs steadily improving. The 1980s was huge, with the shift from vinyl records to CDs, the microwave oven, and the PC. The 1990s was even bigger with the Internet and the gigantic leaps in hard drive capacity. Doesn't seem there will be a year of the Linux desktop, more like a decade.
But this change seems very likely to be real. We've had electric motors on the sidelines for more than a century, and we know they work great. We've also had batteries a long time, so maybe we should be more cautious and skeptical about breakthroughs. But what we haven't had all that long are all these new battery materials such as lithium-ion. So I think that even if Toshiba's advance is less than it sounds, many others are working hard on the same problems, and we'll see huge improvements soon. Like LCDs were 5 years ago, batteries are on the cusp, and it really won't take much more to make the battery + electric motor combination better, much better, than combustion engine + gas tank. I'd be hesitant to buy a new car with a combustion engine. Might be obsolete very quickly, the way CRTs went last year. Combustion engine powered cars still have a few years, perhaps, the only question is how many?
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
Aren't they all just Nakatushi Industrial Conglomerate anyway? *ducks*
Pretty soon, except those without their own garage.
When you can charge up enough for ~2-3hours driving in ~15 minutes with an hour or so between possible recharges, this will be fine for long distance driving.
If you drive less than 2-3 hours to work (actual moving, so traffic jams don't count) and have your own garage, it's good NOW.
If you don't have your own garage, then unless you drive off specifically to recharge, they still don't work.
Unless there's a way to get your home electric power to the car on the main street without someone jacking in to your tarrif, or most workplaces have a work recharge station, those without garages are going to be in a pickle.
There goes my pithy slogan: "Toyota: there's no stopping them now!"
Someone explain why we can't refill batteries with 'charged' chemicals (drain quickly first) as we would petrol.
With an energy density of 1/4 to 1/5 that of a lithium ion battery (in terms of volume and weight), I don't see this going too far.
What is the energy density of SCiB? And what is the energy density of a conventional battery? Thanks.
Use electricity from overhead lines instead. Hauling energy around costs energy and slows your vehicle.
It's Toshiba, not Toyota.
Unless they're the same density materials, the volume and weight aren't the same thing. I think you're making up a problem here.
Read TFA carefully, and you'll notice they never guarantee 6000 cycles AND 5-minute recharge at the same time.
Also a 5-minute recharge is NOT going to be very economical-- a significant fraction of the applied power is going to be lost as heat.
In a real car, you'll need a few dozen of these little bugers, and when you stack them, heat dissipation will be a huge issue. A real design ... and they don't mention really important details, such as COST, or reliability or what kind of warranty they will provide.
will require a very fancy liquid cooling system to keep the thing from melting down during charge and discharge.
And of course there is no way, not by a factor of FIVE, to get enough electrical power to recharge a nation of these.
GP obviously has units confused.
Easy solution to this. Gas Station can become 'charge' stations. You could use your credit card which could be tied to your home 'electricity' account. The station will charge a % premium for using the facilities but the actual electric rate should be the same as your home's. Regardless, electric will be the way to go for the majority of commuters in the next 2-3 yrs.
Yes. This makes it almost useless for cars. I would love a laptop SCIB.
These have terrible energy density.
A current battery, limited to using 80% capacity, is much better than one with 25% capacity being able to use 100% of that capacity.
There are lots of interesting battery tech that has either long cycle life, fast charging or high energy density. We need one that has some intersection of these abilities.
Energy Density is especially important. With it this low, I consider this a non starter for cars.
Seriously, we spend our R&D money on batteries. The interesting thing is that much of the core tech started here in the USA, then was moved to Japan and China. Now, if we leap-frog this and jump to Ultra-caps, we can lower the prices and increase capacity. They already have super fast charges, and nearly all of the ultra caps leak at the same rate as a battery. One last thing is that an electric car with a 2 minute fast charge would sell great at 100 miles range. Why? Because as was pointed out by Chevy, the average daily driven is less than 40 miles. As such, how often do you need to go more than say 80 miles on one charge? Not often for the vast majority of Americans (and I would guess that the average Westerner drives less than 25 miles daily, with America doing the most).
There really isn't a need for a garage. Your employer or apartment complex might install charging stations that only employees (or residents) can use. I can also foresee parking garages offering the same for their customers. Park here and charge your car (for an additional fee of course) while you are doing whatever business you need to be done.
But on a short commute to work? There is one garage on the way to my work, but getting in and out during peak times is going to be a bugger.
For those who use their car to work and back (NOTE: I cycle), they really WILL need a garage, or it needs to be common enough that any parking at your place of work will have a charging station.
But that garage means that as long as you've got ~150-200miles range on a charge you can refill in 15 minutes or near enough, then you have a viable system for long distance driving.
If you have a rush hour commute and your own garage, electric cars are a winner NOW, however. After all, you won't burn electricity sitting in stationary traffic and your daily commute won't require a fast recharge, just recharge it at low usage times overnight for a few hours. That long recharge does require a garage, however.
I have an electric bicycle, made in China (which China is your guess) by EzEE . The model is the Torq II . It has a 350 watt front-wheel brush-less motor. Its battery is a 40 v. 14 aH 'lithium polymer' unit .. gives me about 30 miles
on a 12cent 5-6 hr charge. The battery weighs 3 kg, is removable. The control
unit is built-in to the bike.
The main advantages i see to the SCiB are its longevity and quick-charge ability. Today, I'm sure such longevity come at a price .. and the site makes no mention of any real economics comparison.
When you add up the likelihood of 'high price for the bleeding edge' , plus the fact that
each unit has a built-in controller, well, this is gonna be 'one expensive mother!'
Of course, the advanced safety features, too, are especially important to automobile applications.
Yes, the low-temp performance might be better than mine (which exists today, not 5 yrs
from now), but Ive not ridden any bike in -30C degrees, either.
Don't get me wrong: I highly endorse efforts such as this to advance our planet's power options.
At my age, though, I won't be seeing this design mod'd for my bike anytime!
"There are 11 kinds of people: those who know binary, those who don't, and those who could not care less!"
Everyone that complains about electric cars always seems to quote that there's a 10% electrical loss between the power plant and your house, but I've never heard anyone do a study of how much gasoline is lost between the refinery and your gas tank. Between spillage and evaporation, I'm willing to bet a 10% loss there as well.
Then there's the fact that a gas-engine is only 25% efficient. Most of the energy of the ICE is wasted as heat, either going to the radiator, or blown out the exhaust.
And if everyone could get solar panels on their roofs, we'd make up that 10% loss, even on cloudy days. I'm not sure how you get back the 10% loss of gasoline.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
An energy refill station built for "quick charge" could operate unattended for long periods of time without underground tanks needing periodic refill, inspection, maintenance or supervision. I'm guessing the former is much more expensive in terms of initial and recurring costs than standardized high current power transformers.
My point is the "gas station" paradyme need not extend to electric vechicles. When it comes down to it all you're doing is hanging an extension cord off a telephone pole.
Power stations could be mass-produced and shipped pre-fabbed to new locations where they would only need to pour slabs and connect to the mains to open up shop.
If people are not totally stupid about standardization of receiptical, power and connectors all you would need to do is park, swipe a credit card and the power boom would extend and automatically connect to the vechicle without driver having to get out as mechanics are much simpler with no fear of spillage, driving away with gas nozzel still attached or shock as power would only be energized after a capabilities handshake with the vechicle.
The robotic shit needs to be deployed to Oregon and New Jersy as quickly as possible!!
Unfortunately, these things are useless for most use cases. Anything use case that cares about size or weight will favour higher density batteries.
These things provide up to 67Wh/kg (the smaller cells provide 10.08Wh in 150g cells). Lithium ion batteries can provide up to 250Wh/kg (I'll admit I'm grabbing the upper limit of what's possible from Wikipedia).
An electric car that has 100kWh of capacity would require 1492kg of SCiB batteries, or as little as 400Kg of Li-ion batteries. That pretty much rules them out for electric cars, and those kind of recharge speeds in electric cars are useless anyhow since you can't get enough power to the battery to charge them anywhere close to that fast (charging a 100kWh battery to 90% in 5 minutes would require 1.08 megawatts of power).
The only thing that I can think of where these things might be useful are UPS. These already use lead acid batteries, which don't go over 40Wh/kg to begin with. I don't believe that lead acid batteries can be charged very quickly. Providing 500kW to a consumer UPS (on top of load) for charging is not unreasonable, and a consumer UPS providing 100Wh is also not unreasonable, so being able to charge that UPS in 12 minutes is probably a big step up over what we have now.
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...when does my laptop get one?
The wikipedia article says that, on July 7, Toshiba announced a prototype laptop battery using the same technology.
That was two days before TFA about the car battery appeared in Gizmag. (Perhaps they were both announced the same day?)
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