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An iPhone App Store That Apple Doesn't Control
waderoush writes "Princeton's Ed Felten has criticized the iPhone and iPad as Disneyland-like 'walled gardens' and says there's no way the iTunes App Store can 'offer the scope and variety of apps that a less controlled environment can provide.' Now there's a central marketplace where developers can sell iPhone-optimized apps without going through Apple's gatekeepers. Launched today, it's called OpenAppMkt and it's a showcase for mobile Web apps — not just the type seen back in 2007-2008, before the advent of the App Store, but also for new games and other apps developed using HTML5/CSS/JavaScript (in some cases, the same apps compiled and sold as native iPhone apps). Xconomy has a behind-the-scenes interview with OpenAppMkt's creators, who say they're not out to compete with the native App Store, but that developers deserve new ways to reach users."
And I would like to tell you this:
The iPhone App Store never, ever looked so good.
Sudoku. A flip clock. A picture of a watch. I'm so not impressed.
Ed Felten has criticized the iPhone and iPad as Disneyland-like 'walled gardens'...
I like Disneyland. It's a ton of fun. I especially enjoy Bats in the Park. Good fun.
Oh. Wait. You were trying to use Disneyland as a way to imply there was something wrong with it? Oh. My bad. Sorry.
On a serious note, however, I think it's very cool that there's now an app store for the web apps that can run on the iPhone. After all, that is one of the features of the device.
Apple has a web app gallery too.
The difference between now and then is, that web apps have access to most of the sensor data on the phone... so there are a lot more ideas that a practical to do as web apps now than there were before.
But still native apps will always give a developer the performance edge and full access to every nook and cranny of the device.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Doug: "It's like 'that guy's coming around the corner?' BOOM, HEADSHOT! It's like 'that other guy's coming around the corner?' BOOM, HEADSHOT! Send yer tank, I got frags! I got frags!"
Jeremy: "So, you're like a one-ranger army coming at me and I'm like SCUD STORM. BOOMBOOMBOOM."
Doug: "OK, Mr. Botanical tank with no balls, that's all I gotta to say. It's like 'Botanical tank, Look at me, no balls, no balls!"
Jeremy: "You wanna see some balls? My Nuke Overlord will show you some balls!"
Ah, such an oldie but a goodie...the TV show was decent, but there was nothin' quite like the early web episodes...
Living With a Nerd
have the first "app store" in its vcast offerings? It wasnt really too good, and there was not a lot of content, but i believe that they were actually the first to offer such an idea that apple generally is credited with creating, rather than making viable as it should be. Than again I could be wrong.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
I wouldn't want to live there
It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
It's more like Nazi Computering with the banning and censorship that is in the istore.
As a developer, this is completely useful to you. Not stated is the words "including, but not limited to", words that anyone with so much as a sliver of common sense would know are implied, but you have obviously thrown common sense out the window. This new applications store would enable you to push applications that don't conform to the iPhone SDK EULA.
Opera could push Opera Mobile for iPhone (which is not the same as Opera Mini, as Opera Mini is a web proxy + web browser renderer in the cloud + quasi-renderer on the phone that renders the SVG-like output of the browser in the cloud, and Opera Mini doesn't include Presto. Opera Mobile does.)
This means that if your iPhone app is a pile of Perl scripts, you can push it. What iPhone SDK EULA? We don't know what C/C++/Objective-C limitation you're talking about, we'll list your app in our store! If you feel like writing an app for iPhone in C#, you can push it as a .NET exe in PE-COFF format, instead of having to compile it to native code. If you wanted to port Firefox Mobile and have it use it's own JavaScript engine, you can. You could even push a port of Chrome using V8.
This means that if your iPhone app is a pile of Perl scripts, you can push it. What iPhone SDK EULA? We don't know what C/C++/Objective-C limitation you're talking about, we'll list your app in our store! If you feel like writing an app for iPhone in C#, you can push it as a .NET exe in PE-COFF format, instead of having to compile it to native code. If you wanted to port Firefox Mobile and have it use it's own JavaScript engine, you can. You could even push a port of Chrome using V8.
I'm pretty sure that none of this is true...
Go to openappmkt.com and click on "Install OpenAppMkt" using an iPad.
Popup sez "To install our app, use the iPhone browser" and offers to text the link to a phone number, same as if attempted on a PC.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
because some people don't want to go there.
Isn't this what Cydia accomplishes?
The Cydia App Store has also been around for a while, serving the jailbroken iPhone market. Of course there is not a huge number of apps on it, but there are also lots of free apps in the Cydia repository.
Disney should be forced to allow 3rd parties to do anything they want inside Disneyland. If their customers don't want to go into the porn shops, gun shops, brothels, casinos, and check-cashing stores then they can simply avoid those places while walking down Main St.
It's really just a question of freedom.
All walled garden discussions begin and end with this: Internet vs AOL.
The outlands will always become more diverse and desirable than the garden. The garden's residents will therefore always abandon it. It is only a matter of time.
Sure it is. All you have to do is writing a Perl/.NET/whatever interpreter in Javascript.
(+1, Disagree)
The story attempts to suggest that this is a way to get around Apple's walled garden. On the contrary, this is a fully supported system that Apple has promoted many times. They always say there are two ways to develop apps: an open HTML5-based web app method and the curated App store. What's the news here other than showing people the showcase itself?
No, anyone with common sense would know that there is no "including, but not limited to" implied in this. The iPhone doesn't let you download and run programs from arbitrary websites. This is a well known limitation of the device.
This "app store" sells (bundled?) web applications. As such, there is no executable code.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
But have you been paying for apps on Linux? Are there any popular Linux package managers that support authorization and payment to the repository owner for access to particular packages? Not all paid apps have a Free or even free alternative; I've given examples in another comment.
There were app collections that were essentially app stores for the Palm V. The idea of an app store is not new, I don't know that anyone credits Apple for making it - just for making it very successful.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They always say there are two ways to develop apps: an open HTML5-based web app method
Can an HTML5-based web application make real-time 3D graphics? (I tried making my own 3D engine in JavaScript with the 2D canvas, but it was fairly slow even on a PC, and there were always cracks between the polygons.) Can an HTML5-based web application ask the user's permission to turn on the camera and microphone? Can an HTML5-based web application run with zero bars and save the user's work?
I didn't post a question, I posted a statement - the point of which was to inform /. readers about to do what I did, and to prompt discussion thereof.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
But still, let's not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy adventure.
There are no apps...all this "store" does is place shortcuts on your iPhone home screen to existing web-based apps like Google Voice and other apps which are mobile-friendly.
And, really, I don't want the crap arguments about how they will lead to totalitarianism in the consumer computing space. The same folks who argue that tend to have no problem with Linus Torvalds being the benign dictator of the linux kernel, so please spare me. Someone please explain to be why it's so bad to have one, _just_one_, closed ecosystem? Ya'll have android. (The primary SDK for which is Java based, which I always found ironical.) Why the need to trash the iphone?
As a Symbian user, I really wonder what kind of evil thing not having a walled kindergarten like Appstore cost to me.
You know; iPhone and iPad app store also means you can't take extra measures such as app firewall/antivirus if you really have critical data or overly concerned about the threats. It is not like Apple will allow something like "F-Secure" for iPhone and obviously, nothing can hook to file IO etc. functions.
Those "black hat" conference guys aren't really black hats. The actual black hats are waiting for the first opportunity to expolit a device which has rich owners, no protection and perfect communication abilities along with mic/camera built in. You are relying on couple of symbol checking mnonkeys for security. If you call it security of course.
I have a hard time seeing how using this "app store" is any better than just googling for "iphone web app," or visiting Apple's web app link page, or any of a number of other methods for finding these things online.
Non-jailbroken iPhones don't let you download and run programs from arbitrary websites. This is a well known limitation of the device.
Fixed that for you. Now that jailbreaking is unambiguously legal, markets like this have a chance of going mainstream.
Where's the outrage against Microsoft for controlling and having the final say for anything published on XBoxLive?
Where's the outrage against Sony for controlling and having the final say for anything published on PSN?
Where's the outrage against Nintendo for controlling content on their systems?
Lets not forget so-called apps does nothing more than displaying HTML with couple of stock Obj-C UI tricks.
If I have agreed to Steve Ballmer of MS one time, it is the time when he mentioned that fact.
Sad thing is, that joke like claimed "apps" made their way to Symbian too, with stupid Nokia/Symbian shipping a web wizard for them. http://www.oviappwizard.com/web_nokia/signIn.jsp . So there we have thousands of "apps" (!). Of course, it is the bloggers/users/industry constantly whining about number of apps on Symbian to blame. I bet J2ME/Oracle will do a similar trick soon.
But I'd rather have a more controlled environment where, for the most part, the apps have been vetted so they're not trying to steal any info from me. Part of the reason I'm not an Android fan (and no, I don't have an iPhone. Actually, I don't even have a smartphone).
Being open and fancy-free is fine for some things, but for others I'd prefer some measure of security.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
You mean, markets which distribute web apps exclusively?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
The Wild West is fun but most people don't want to live there. Most people want the walled garden of safety. If anything I think Apple should be more aggressive in screening out offensive, dangerous, and just plain bad apps that don't add value for the customer.
On the flip side I think Apple should sell Xcode for iPad ($9.99 like iWork apps?) that lets you actually write iOS code including putting your iOS devices into a developer mode that will let you compile and install whatever you want with minimal interference. Not quite the same as jailbreaking in that I wouldn't remove all restrictions but you'd have freedom as far as apps were concerned and you wouldn't have to fight the warden with every new release. You still couldn't install stolen apps maybe but if you had source code then you could install. This is basically what signing up as a developer lets you do anyway but I'd flatten the cost to the app cost and only charge the $100/yr if you wanted to distribute your app in the App Store. And of course you could actually write code from the iPad which you can do anyway but it'd be nice to have actual Xcode and be able to compile and run directly on the device.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I've tried and like this not-Apple-controlled web app store.... so, could someone PLEASE (with sugar on top!) create a good BASIC programming language environment/shell webapp, so that I may do some BASIC programming directly on my iPhone?
Missed that last line of the parent post. :-X
Because Android users actually do things with their phone, and don't just sit around all day downloading apps?
Yes, when on a plane I overheard one android user saying what he does all day.
It was using a task manager to kill apps about every hour or so to keep up the battery life. He stated they "mysteriously" came back after an hour or so, he had to then kill them again.
Frankly I'd rather be downloading apps than killing them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
LOLwhut? Regardless of what you think of Javascript, it is indeed executable code.
The CB App. What's your 20?
because some people don't want to go there.
Is it some kind of American thing that, when you don't want to go somewhere, you just have to criticize other people for wanting to go there?
You are NOT the target audience for the iPad/iPhone/iPod.
You have NEVER been the target audience for the iPad/iPhone/iPod.
You will NEVER be the target audience for the iPad/iPhone/iPod.
You are NOT the target audience for iTunes.
You have NEVER been the target audience for the iTunes.
You will NEVER be the target audience for the iTunes.
The target audience for the iPad/iPhones/iPod and iTunes does not care a fat rat's ass for YOUR perceived "limitations" and "restrictions" that Apple imposes.
The target audience only wants something that works when it's turned on. The target audience wants a simple seamless one click music buying experience that buys the file and places that file in the correct spot inside iTunes.
The target audience for iPhone and iPad apps wants a simple, seamless one click app buying experience that buys the and places that in the correct spot on the iPhone/iPad. They want an App Store that at least makes an effort to keep malware off their iPhone and iPad.
Please, feel free to vent and complain and moan and piss and bitch all you want about Apple and its products.
The people that buy Apple products like Apple products. They don't care what you think, nor does what you think affect how THEY think of Apple products.
You are, essentially, pissing into the wind.
Thank you for your kind attention, Ed!
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
The subject says it all
No, because this IS NOT APPLE'S APP STORE and therefore you can push whatever apps written in whatever language you like.
I guess that you and the guy you replied to both missed the mark entirely. This is not Apple's App Store, the iPhone SDK EULA doesn't apply here. Do you get it now? Need I bludgeon you with a LART until you do?
And before someone else hops on and tries to correct me again (and be wrong again by trying so), we're talking about an appstore for jailbroken iPhones. Please, read every single printable ASCII character in a posted story, not just the ones that your spin-doctor mind wants to see so that you can push your faulty and incorrect "facts". Fuck, the name of the story is An iPhone App Store That Apple Doesn't Control. I guess your backwards mind reads that as "An iPhone App Store That Apple Controls.
is that you've purchased a ticket to Disneyland by purchasing an iPhone, you haven't purchased Disneyland itself.
Considering you paid a few hundred bucks for an iPhone and not a few billion dollars, that seems pretty reasonable.
just like buying a ticket to Disneyland doesn't preclude you going to Detroit instead.
It would be more accurate to summarize the opinion as "Disneyland should have an exit".
Honestly, what walls? I haven't struck any in my use of it and I'm pretty demanding.
Lets see, half the apps on iTunes equate to a flashlight, a farting toy and a few other toys? Hmm, then how come I have an office app compatible with Macroslop's offering, several music apps including a 16 track recorder, a few MIDI apps and various audio field recorders I use for work (all mission critical quality) and any number of really good communications and network tools, such as GPS apps, social apps, oh why do I bother feeding the trolls?
Simple - 130,000 apps. If there is a wall, it's a long long way away and it's hardly East Germany inside. Seriously, the people hating iPhone and iPad today are the descendents of those who burned crosses 100 years ago.
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
It's NOT for jailbroken iPhones, it's for web apps. HTML, JavaScript, CSS, etc. You don't need a jailbreak to run those.
Cydia and Rock are for jail broken phones, this is not.
Trolling is a art,
No, because this IS NOT APPLE'S APP STORE and therefore you can push whatever apps written in whatever language you like.
I guess that you and the guy you replied to both missed the mark entirely. This is not Apple's App Store, the iPhone SDK EULA doesn't apply here. Do you get it now? Need I bludgeon you with a LART until you do?
And before someone else hops on and tries to correct me again (and be wrong again by trying so), we're talking about an appstore for jailbroken iPhones. Please, read every single printable ASCII character in a posted story, not just the ones that your spin-doctor mind wants to see so that you can push your faulty and incorrect "facts". Fuck, the name of the story is An iPhone App Store That Apple Doesn't Control. I guess your backwards mind reads that as "An iPhone App Store That Apple Controls.
I'm pretty sure that none of this is true...