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Recycling an Android Phone As a Handheld GPS?
imblum writes "So my dad's antique handheld GPS unit just went toes up and I was considering replacing it for him with an old Android Smartphone. All he really needs it for is hunting and camping (no navigation), so I don't want to pay for cell or data service. I found the program Mobile Atlas Creator to download map files onto the SD card, and an app called Maverick Lite to view them. Now all I need is to decide on an Android phone. I was considering a Samsung Behold II ($100-200 on Craigslist), but thought it would be nice to get some input from the Slashdot community. It seems like I can get a lot more functionality for the money out of an old Android than I could from a big name handheld GPS. Does this plan sound reasonable? Is there anything I'm overlooking?"
Battery life will not be as good as on a real GPS, but should be ok.
You're talking about spending $100-200 on an Android phone, and you can get a real dedicated GPS receiver for $90 that requires no effort to set up, no purchase of an additional flash card, has a warranty, etc.
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I just bought a used Magellan explorist 500 ion Amazon for $7. Why bother with hacking an android phone?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
There's a reason why 'real' GPS units cost more, despite not necessarily having as many fancy 'features' that often end up being unnecessary.
Cell phones rarely have WAAS. Cell phones usually also use the cellular system to receive the phase of the GPS satellite transmission to aid in reception--but--if you don't have any service, the accuracy can get pretty deplorable (well, compared to say my GPSmap 60CSx that usually locks within fourteen to sixteen feet)...the battery life isn't as good, cell phones are horribly made, and the chipsets and antennae are simply much, much, much better in a dedicated unit. Pick up a used GPS--that's a real GPS--and it will be much better suited to hunting and camping rather than looking for the closest Starbucks. Real GPS units have rubber gaskets for a reason.
Get a good Garmin or other hand held GPS. One that can be operated with winter gloves on or such. If he's like my dad, he's not going to want to mess with any other applications or functionality. He wants a device to tell him how to get to the next camp site or hunting spot. Not listen to MP3s. He's also going to want something that is probably water proof, drop proof and has a battery life much longer than that of an old phone.
Garmins are by far the easiest to hack and even allow you to use your own maps. TomTom from what I've heard locks their stuff down hard. Plus Garmin has been around longer in the 'off road' GPS device market.
For yourself, sure, sounds like a fun project. I'm considering an iPod Touch + Bluetooth GPS + Jailbreaking as an in car GPS device. I was looking for an application to make the maps from OSM, but it looks like Mobile Atlas will do that.
GS runs on AA, can get spares & carry them with you. Android will want to be charged at some point, and how will it behave if it can't find a cell site? GSM units will keep transmitting, increasing battery drain. Spend a hundred bucks on a new GPS for him.
A GPS device in my experience is much more durable than a smartphone. Smartphones are delicate devices. My GPS has been dropped tons of times, been left in the car in hot weather and cold winter, even sprayed with water on a couple of occasions. It still works. I doubt a smartphone would do that. On the other hand you could use the android for more than just navigation. You could have apps installed that don't need an internet connection, music, videos and what not. Although most new GPS devices do play mp3s.
An android phone will have a bigger, more colorful screen and a more open/versatile OS, and it will undoubtedly be easier to load whatever maps you want on it, rather than vendor-approved, possibly expensive ones. Without some sort of additional protection, though, the device will break the first time it gets dropped on a rock or rained on. It'd be more suited to city and car navigation than camping and hunting.
Get him a dedicated GPS device. What are they, under $100 now? They work off satellites and don't require any spotty cellular phone triangulation. Do it. You seriously don't want to be the guy who sent his father out into the woods with sub-par gear. That's how people fucking die.
I live within eyesight of Mt. Hood so I don't take a "quick jaunt in the woods" at face value. Prepare for the worst, pack your gear like it'll be the last trip you ever take.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
Android is what, 22 months old?
Depends on how your dad uses his GPS and what he needs to do with it, but Android smart phones aren't generally designed for rough conditions.
I've got a Garmin eTrex and an Android phone. The Garmin is way more ruggedised than the touch screen smart phone (Motorola Milestone). I don't think the Milestone would cope with pouring rain, snow, getting knocked about in rucsacs, dropped in puddles, sat on, etc, and still function in bad weather at night when I really need to know where I am: it might be life or death. "Smart phones" with a few exceptions are much too flimsy for outdoor use in severe conditions.
Airplane mode disables all the wireless including gsm. Battery life will still likely be an issue for hunting, probably can get a few days with occasional checks.
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Dear slashrock,
My gene donor's old wheel finally broke. Sure, I could tell him to buy a new one that would work perfectly but I have some old rocks laying around and was thinking of learning masonry so that I could build him a new one. I have pretty much everything I need, and it'll only cost twice as much as a new wheel. I plan on using rocks. I know its older technology, and not as reliable, nor are they made for wheels (not since bronze finally got out of beta, anyway) but I figure that re-using old technology would be good.
So, what kind of rock should I get? Granite? Sandstone? And which quarry should I get it from? I was thinking that granite would last longer but sandstone would ride nicer and would be easier to lob at a dinosaur in case of attack.
Thanks SlashRock!
Nobodies Prefect
Tidbits for Techs Technology Blog
Airplane mode disables all the wireless including gsm. Battery life will still likely be an issue for hunting, probably can get a few days with occasional checks.
If he's going out into the wilderness any appreciable distance and doesn't know how to use a map and compass, or how to find the four directions without a compass then he might be a candidate for a Darwin Award except that he's apparently already reproduced.
Seriously. A sharp person can learn basic old-fashioned navigation in about ten or twenty minutes. Do that and a GPS device is just a convenience. Nice to have for sure, but out in the wilderness you need some skills too. A knowledge of common edible plants for the area and the know-how to make basic snares and traps for wild game and makeshift shelters is a good idea too.
It's nice to have backup when your phone's battery dies. Or if the thing falls into a creek. Or is eaten by a bear.
Really, it isn't that hard to learn the basics, and it's fun - so why not do it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGPS
Some A-GPS devices cannot fall back to standard GPS, needing cell tower or internet signal as these A-GPS devices won't function with only GPS satellite signal.
Many mobile phones combine A-GPS and other location services including Wi-Fi Positioning System and cell-site triangulation in a hybrid positioning system.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_devices_with_Assisted_GPS
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I took my Moto Droid to France and Spain this spring for just that purpose. By definition there was no phone network in Europe, it only works with Verizon. I downloaded maps using MapDroid and planned to use it for GPS and email in wi-fi zones. The wi-fi email tool worked ok except the phone has a hard time hanging onto a wi-fi connection. As a GPS it was worthless. I find that if the phone network is disabled, the GPS takes forever to find it's location (sometimes it failed completely). If you are planning to not have a phone network connection, don't bother with this one.
Like I've explained in a previous post in much greater detail, the GPS of a Nokia phone (even with its free off-line Ovi vector maps) is almost completely useless without a data connection.
I recently wrote a rant about smartphone vs dedicated GPS unit comparisong to my blog (no ads) http://code.vn720.com/2010/08/14/dedicated-vs-smartphone-gps/, but I copypaste it here to save you from trouble. :) So here it goes:
... drove me crazy. Dedicated unit gets the route planning done 10x faster.
I've used a lot of smartphone GPS solutions, and two dedicated units. The biggest issue with all smartphone solutions is that you cannot *rely* on them. I've used Navicore/Wayfinder, Nokia Maps and Google Maps on Droid. They make nice demos but seriously, you really want to buy a dedicated GPS unit. I paid recently $130 for a new unit on a sale, and it's far superior to any mobile stuff that is out there.
Just a quick comparison:
+ Dedicated GPS units are more robust. You can rely on them. Smartphone based solutions do crash. You cannot rely on them. That's the most important factor for dumping them for any serious usage. They lose signal without being able to restore it without reboot. Theylose data connection (only prob for Google Maps based navisystems, Nokia Maps is offline). They just stop working. Every smartphone based solution had problems (at least after using them some time, not in "demo sessions"...) and the dedicated units don't (crashes are very rare).
+ Dedicated GPS units have far superior signal strength compared to any smartphone based GPS. Just try it in a parking hall: Dedicated unit will pick a signal no prob, smartphone will not. Smartphone will also lose signal easily when you're driving where dedicated unit is not. Trust me, I've done lots of comparisons running dedicated units and phones side by side.
+ Dedicated units are much faster. Offline maps is the first key requirement where Google Maps based systems fail. I used Google Maps on Droid for couple of months (on T-Mobile) until time wasted restoring data connection, downloading map, getting signal, downloading map again, downloading instructions,
+ Dedicated units have better functionality and usability compared to any smartphone solution. For example, Google Maps does not have "search along route" functionality which is really nice during any road trips.
Still, I find uses for mobile GPS as well, but not as a dedicated GPS replacement but for "fun usage" e.g. during walking tour in a new city. Just don't buy mobile GPS solution and imagine that it's competing in the same league with dedicated units.
If you insist buying a mobile GPS, you can get Nokia 5230 with $160 or something like that. Nokia Ovi Maps can at least use offline maps, unlike Google Maps.
Anyone who is going hunting and camping (as the Asker said his dad would be doing) and doesn't know the basics of direction finding and survival in the wild has no business there, at least without a knowledgeable human guide. That said, many experienced hunters, hikers and campers these days carry GPS units for that extra added layer of security, as well as making it easy to map out a path in new territory.
Personally, I'd ditch the idea of buying a cellphone to "repurpose" it as a standalone GPS unit. Not only is this inefficient and potentially expensive, it's not really repurposing at all. Repurposing is finding a new use for something you already own and no longer use, not buying someone else's old gear and wasting your time and money on a half-assed solution.
In this situation, I'd prefer my dad to have a true GPS unit that is weather resistant, has long battery life, and (ideally for a hunter or hiker) topographic maps. A device like that has much more to offer than a used cellphone for perhaps $100 more.
That's idiotic. Cell service is tower based. GPS is satellite based. If you have clear sky to two of the satellites, you can get a decent idea of where you are, three and you can really only be two places and it's a safe bet you're in the place closest sea level. The general idea is that GPS should be visible from anywhere. Cell towers are located close to population centers because it's cost efficient.
I agree with you on the standalone GPS... they have plenty of decent models for around the price OP was talking about.
I disagree with you on everything else. OP never said his father wasn't capable of using a map. Just because he knows how to use a map, though, doesn't mean he wouldn't want a GPS unit for its convenience. Also, think about why you would need a map for hunting... it's not just trying to find your way back where you started. It's keeping track of where you've already been and sticking waypoints in "good spots" and on each (if any) of your tree stands, etc. With a GPS unit, you can set a waypoint at your vehicle and start walking wherever you want. Then when you get to your tree stand, you can set another waypoint... If you go looking around more and find a good spot (maybe you find some animal tracks or scrape marks, etc.) you can mark THAT with a waypoint as well. Doing the equivalent on a map would involve: 1) taking out the map 2) unfolding it 3) figuring out roughly where you are since you know the direction from your compass but don't know how far in that direction you've traveled since the topographical map doesn't necessarily help much if the entire wooded area is flat and homogeneous 4) physically making permanent marks on your now-one-time-use map
With a GPS unit you can both add and remove waypoints with the touch of a button. If your batteries die, then sure, pull out the map and get a compass and figure out roughly where you are based on geography and start walking in the direction of your vehicle. (you don't need a distance measurement for that)
As for the "repurpose" argument, you're poisoning the well with a false definition of "repurpose." Here are six definitions of the word and not a single one requires prior possession of the object. "Taking a thing or a material and using it for a purpose not originally intended" You're taking an object intended to be used for communication (a phone) and using it for navigation instead by adding an application to it. If you ask me, it's ridiculously petty to say that it's not "repurposing."
Yes, the cell service assists the GPS to find a signal quicker. That doesn't mean you can't get a GPS signal if you don't have cell service. It will just take a little longer.
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"Tiger Direct had an entry-level garmin for $69.... I think you'll be better off with a dedicated GPS than a re-purposed phone. "
Exactly. When I read this " I was considering a Samsung Behold II ($100-200 on Craigslist)" I was starting to doubt the author had even priced GPS units since they're far below $100 now
Since "All he really needs it for is hunting and camping (no navigation)," why not get a device soley created for that purpose like a $75 Garmin eTrex. High sensitivity, waterproof, and up to 17 hours on two AA batteries.
Now if author's dad wanted a Android so he could use GPS and other software I would understand not buying a dedicated GPS, but he made no mention at all of ever using it for anything other than a GPS.
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I think I can consider myself a pro. For 30 years I ran or was navigator on multiweek back country expeditions, about 6 weeks worth a year.
Map and compass is sufficient most of the time. No batteries required.
I have had a few situations that the GPS saved my bacon.
Much of the Canadian Shield has low relief. Hills are glacial till, or gently rounded granite. There are many stretches where the hills are only 30-40 feet tall -- comparable to the scrub pine and spruce.
Many of these hills look very similar -- the glaciers came down and moved in one general direction, so their crests are more or less parallel.
Fortunately the lakes have unique features.
Small windy streams embedded in heavy forest cover are tough. You can't see the hills around you. The stream channel is embedded in peatmoss and willow, and has shifted greatly in the 30 years since the map photography is done. Best you can do without a GPS is track general direction, and use dead reckoning.
One time I was trying to find a portage trail through a 10 year old burn. The fire had flashed through, leaving most of the trunks intact. They fell, and left a 3 foot thick layer of pick-up sticks on the forest floor. Meanwhile the jackpine grew in, so the landscape was covered in 3-12 foot christmas trees on one foot spacing. To see, you had to be up on the pick up sticks. To move you were constantly climbing carefully up and down. (branch stubs were sharp)
It was overcast with not even a bright spot to indicate sun position. No wind. Raining.
There was less than 20 feet of land relief over the entire 2 km span of the portage.
I found that even with a compass I was many degrees off my bearing after even 50 yards.
After that trip, I had a GPS. It lived with my camera in the pelican case most of the time. Sometimes whole trips would go by and it would never come on.
Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
He lives (and goes hunting) in Alaska, and they don't have GPS in most of the state because of how far north it is. He could not see enough satellites to determine his position. I was stunned to think that GPS didn't work up there. I had no idea, and neither did my dad.
Nonsense, Alaska isn't far north. Most of it is on the same latitude as Finland, and we have no problems with GPS here. In fact, you can go to the north pole and have your GPS tell you you're at N 90 degrees. I think your dad was probably between too many mountains.
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This is incorrect.
The GPS constellation is arranged so this should be impossible unless:
Although none of the satellites are in a direct polar orbit (this avoids occasional "bunching" of satellites, a problem encountered by a forerunner to GPS called "Transit".), the constellation is divided into six orbital planes at varying inclinations. There is nowhere on the surface of the Earth where fewer than four satellites should be visible at any one time.
It is true that the lack of a direct polar plane means that in polar regions the satellites will sit lower on the horizon than in regions that are closer to the equator (They'll never be directly overhead in Alaska). But if the device is capable, and it's being used properly, you WILL be able to use it in Alaska or anywhere.
Read up in it if you're skeptical:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fjolles/gps.htm
http://www.kowoma.de/en/gps/orbits.htm
http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html
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