Promised Microsoft Tablet 'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

Barence writes Microsoft will deliver a touchscreen PC that is 'no thicker than a sheet of glass' within the next three years, according to the company's principal researcher. The device will be the next generation of Microsoft's Surface project, which currently houses a touchscreen PC in a deep cabinet that uses cameras to detect hand gestures and objects placed on the screen. According to Microsoft's Bill Buxton, 'Surface will become no thicker than a sheet of glass. It's not going to have any cameras or projectors because the cameras will be embedded in the device itself.' Microsoft is developing a new screen technology to make this possible. 'The best way to think about it is like a big LCD where there's a fourth pixel in every triad. So there's red, green, and blue pixels giving you light, and a fourth pixel which is a sensor that will capture stuff,' Buxton claims in an interview with The Globe and Mail."

Comments

Thick as a sheet of glass...

[Anonymous Coward]

But how many Libraries will it hold?

sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[Anonymous Coward]

how thick can glass be?

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[camperdave]

Apparently some porthole glass is two inches thick.

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[PopeRatzo]

how thick can glass be?

Seriously, does anyone want to carry around something that's "thin as glass" if it's going to be rigid? Unless it can be folded or rolled into a tube, I really don't want something as thin as a sheet of glass.

The mental image of carrying around an 8 x 11" sheet of glass does not appeal to me. After a certain point, I'm not sure thinner is better. I think the Mac Air did so poorly just because it felt too fidgety. If the Mac Air had been covered in some soft, tough silicon, I might have bitten, but it just didn't feel good in the hand, the way an iPod Touch does.

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[Myopic]

A nice attractive looking tablet which can accept third-party operating systems definitely appeals to me. It's too bad this one is from Microsoft, and therefore I can not trust it. Same with that Dell tablet we heard about yesterday. If HP announces something similar, it will be a trifecta.

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[Zarf]

Interesting point. There might be such a thing as too small and too thin. Hard to believe we've already gotten there.

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[dmacleod808]

That's what she said!

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[tehcyder]

Seriously, does anyone want to carry around something that's "thin as glass" if it's going to be rigid? Unless it can be folded or rolled into a tube, I really don't want something as thin as a sheet of glass.

But if you start off with a very thin computer, you could always thicken it up by adding proper armour without it weighing as much as a suitcase full of bricks.

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[Hymer]

The thickest glass I've seen is 30 cm thick, it is used in a 12 m high aquarium.

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[PopeRatzo]

But if you start off with a very thin computer, you could always thicken it up by adding proper armour without it weighing as much as a suitcase full of bricks.

If you're just going to "thicken it up" why go through all the trouble and expense of making everything "as thin as a sheet of glass"?

One of the reasons the Mac Air failed (besides its absurd price-point) is the fact that making it so thin also made it underpowered both from a computing and from a battery power standpoint.

I admire the industrial design that went into the iPhone, the iPod Touch and iPad, and handling one makes me want one on a very visceral level. When I see someone with a Mac Air, though, I just think "what a douche, you paid all that money to try to look cool and it only made you look like you don't know what you're doing".

I think computer manufacturers and designers should really take a look at all the things that made the Mac Air such a loser, the same way they should look at what makes the iPad and Touch such winners.

And Apple ought to put a whole lot of effort into making their devices get more work-time out of a battery charge. Looking cool is fine, but battery life is going to be the killer app of tablets and handhelds in the near future. The company that solves battery life is going to be the market leader. And by "battery life" I mean I should be able to get 14 hours of heavy duty work out of a single charge on my iPad or Touch before I would consider one seriously for anything but a toy.

Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium?

[mabhatter654]

an iPod Touch is already pretty close to the thicker tempered glass used for glass-top dining room tables. If you "flattened" the iPad you could probably get the current hardware nearly that thin as well.

Of course that stuff is so "out of date" cause it's out now. what will Apple have in 3 years?

I was commenting to my wife, while we were at the store, that I didn't need the new Halo game because they're already working on a newer, better game right now... why would I waste my time playing an "inferior" game that's already "out of date". It seems everything of Microsoft's is "coming soon".

will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll believe it when I see it. Otherwise it's just vaporware that will clog blogs with nonsensical hype.

Re:will believe when i see it

[hazmat2k]

Speaking of vaporware, what ever happened to the Origami Project? It really looked like it had potential.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

what ever happened to the Origami Project?

It folded.

Re:will believe when i see it

[gurner]

Say what you like about Apple, if they announce it you can buy it shortly after.

Re:will believe when i see it

[gurner]

MS can invent what they like, if they don't ship I don't care. My point is valid, your point is a sideshow.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats comparing Apples to oranges

The difference is, when Apple announce something it is already a viable consumer product that is going into mass production/distribution. They never announce anything before hand even when every one and their gran knows that Apple are working on the next Apple phone/pod/tablet/multi-pass

They don't have to worry about not being able to come up with the good becasue its alreeady in Jobs sweaty palms.

"Most" tech companies will annonce or preview prototypes or projects before anything is viable, so while you may not have the finished item in your hand in 3 months there will be something like it coming out in the forseeable future

Re:will believe when i see it

[nkh]

Cool stuff like Courier (vaporware) or the Kin (dead project, cost 1 billion dollars). I agree that Apple makes shiny products from existing technology, but at least I can use those.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

what ever happened to the Origami Project?

It folded.

And that is exactly what will happen to this crazy idea just what is the point of making something so think and vunerable to damage . Laptop displays and LCD flat monitors are way too easy to damage so making something this stupidly thin and by the nature of it's thinness fragile make no common sense at all but just like the stupid iPhone ipad iPod and all the rest some jerkoff will keep on wasting time and money on it

Re:will believe when i see it

[Pieroxy]

what ever happened to the Origami Project?

It folded.

And you've got to give kuddos to MS for this one. Announcing a project and its demise in the same press release... Wow, these guys are good.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Pieroxy]

Indeed they have, and we're all grateful for that. I mean, if noone invented multitouch, where would we be now?

Inventing is good, making real life product is good too. But the end user will favor the latter.

Re:will believe when i see it

[arivanov]

I would not be so sure about that. Hystorically, microsoft hardware division has been reasonably good in delivering on its promises.

Also, funnily enough, most of their hardware works quite well with Linux. This reminds me, I need to get some more Microsoft XP Media Center Edition IR remote controls for my Linux HTPCs. While MCE XP was a flop, the hardware for it performs fantastically under a proper OS:)

Re:will believe when i see it

[gilesjuk]

Once again it's all vaporware from Microsoft and everyone knows that no matter how cool the hardware is, if the software sucks then what use is it? Looking at the surface software list there's nothing available for it that is of use to anyone, unless you want a big photo viewer or map. Where's the web browser, email or office tools?

Re:will believe when i see it

[Hognoxious]

what ever happened to the Origami Project? It really looked like it had potential.

It looked good on paper.

Re:will believe when i see it

[notknown86]

Yeah, but the flip side of that is Foxconn employees - if they announce it they die shortly after.

Re:will believe when i see it

[FaxeTheCat]

Considering that Surface OS is based on Vista (or probably 7 by now), don't you think that there may be just a few more applications available by the time this (still vaporware) is launched?
There are rumors that Microsoft has created both web browsers, email tools and office software in the past. Who knows. Maybe they can do it again!

Re:will believe when i see it

[peragrin]

MSFT has had a Tablet OS for almost a friggin decade and they have yet to port over their most useful applications to a touch based interface.

Why does it take Apple to finally pull all the parts together in both hardware and software and show the computer world how to do things like create products customers demand.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Say what you like about Apple, if they announce it you can buy it shortly after.

Not true.

Take Leopard for example. It was announced in the spring of 2005 and didn't show up until the fall of 2007. Which means that MS has 2 1/2 years to get this released to meet your definition of "shortly after".

Re:will believe when i see it

[ciderbrew]

Because someone has to do it first to prove that there is a market to go to. It's a business case.
MS wouldn't have made the Xbox; but as a few other companies were doing very nicely thank you very much. Management and marketing had a business case with good numbers and wanted a bit of the action.

Henry Ford said "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse". MS would have given them the horse. It's a sound business choice. I'm sure there is a lot of office politics between the good idea and the money. The person that can get the money wins, not the best idea.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

I was under the impression that it was not MS or Apple who "invented" multi-touch, it was a group of college students over the many... many years of Computer history. Apple was the first to release a product with it though, if memory serves.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

The vast majority of research Microsoft does is never released, and never intended to release. The media gets the reports on it wrong and claims "Microsoft will release yadda-yadda-yadda", when research projects are almost always just that.

The IP produced from the research projects is licensed to partner manufacturers to turn into products, which is why there's usually such a lag (or why tech seems to just disappear). Courier was a perfect example of that. See the new Libretto laptop?

You need to pay attention to WHO is announcing inside of Microsoft. Microsoft Research is not about products.

(Posted anonymously to preserve some moderation and because I'm not 100% sure what I should or should not be posting in this regard ...)

Re:will believe when i see it

[Nikker]

I don't mind feeding trolls every once in a while so I'll let you in on something. Companies blow smoke! I have never seen Microsoft to date come through with an actual product that shows off their apparent research. Please, please, please prove me wrong below. It better not be Aero, lol.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep in mind that Microsoft still has more deployed tablets out there than Apple does -- and people seem to think they don't have a tablet solution.

Just because it wasn't targeted to consumers, and didn't meet your needs, doesn't mean it didn't meet precisely the needs it was intended to meet.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Jarik C-Bol]

Actually, I recall an article on /. a few years back talking about a new Apple patent for a monitor where every 4th pixel was a sensor. The idea at the time was that all the input could be compiled, and the entire screen was your camera, thus ending the whole 'looking away from the camera in video chat because you are looking at the screen' and a plethora of other uses. Aha, here's the article. from over 4 years ago:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/06/04/26/1536212/Apples-All-Seeing-Screen

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, you mean like the immensely successful Apple Pippin, the Apple Newton and Copland? See, I can cherry pick too.

Go look at Microsoft Research. They've done a lot more than you are probably aware of.

Re:will believe when i see it

[jedidiah]

You never know. It could lead to it's own market in "protection products".

Oddly enough, that's no something you ever seem to see in the sci-fi visions: counter-tech to deal with how flawed an original idea is. ...makes you wonder if Federation officers are compulsive hand washers.

Re:will believe when i see it

[jedidiah]

...too bad I still need to lug around a netbook because Steve's "netbook replacement" is intentionally crippled for really no good reason.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

but at least I can use those

You ever try gaming with a 1-button mouse? Oh WAIT.... Mac doesn't support gaming. Yeah that's right I SAID IT!

Re:will believe when i see it

[oodaloop]

That's because they're notoriously tight-lipped and don't talk about anything in development.

Re:will believe when i see it

[UnknowingFool]

Because someone has to do it first to prove that there is a market to go to. It's a business case.

Um, MS has had tablets for a decade but haven't been very successful with them. A decade is more than enough time to flesh out the market. The iPad is less than 6 months old and have sold in the millions already. I think the main reason is that tablets where just a computer in a very expensive small form factor without any real thought that the UI might have to be changed.

MS wouldn't have made the Xbox; but as a few other companies were doing very nicely thank you very much. Management and marketing had a business case with good numbers and wanted a bit of the action.

I wouldn't hold the Xbox of a shining example of good business. While the Xbox has a good marketshare, it does not appear MS will make money on the project. Basically all MS did was pay for marketshare with billions of dollars.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Atryn]

MS can invent what they like, if they don't ship I don't care. My point is valid, your point is a sideshow.

Really? Shipping is enough to win you over? I'm still waiting for SP2 before I care.

Re:will believe when i see it

[MightyYar]

They just take existing technology and throw it together in a shiny case.

Wow, that's just awful. I mean, condemn them to hell for using existing technology.

Re:will believe when i see it

[UnknowingFool]

Take Leopard for example. It was announced in the spring of 2005 and didn't show up until the fall of 2007. Which means that MS has 2 1/2 years to get this released to meet your definition of "shortly after".

There's a difference in announcing what your next version of software is going to be called and announcing it is being released. Apple announced in 2005 that they were working on the next version of OS X and it was going to be called Leopard. They released Tiger on April 29, 2005 so it's highly unlikely that they said it would release Leopard in the same year.

Re:will believe when i see it

[ciderbrew]

Apple have the "designer wank" tag and the ability to go forth and make a market. MS doesn't.

I agree the xbox wasn't the best money spinner.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Would anyone really be surprised for a thin Microsoft product to require a two-inch-thick wrapper in order to survive the real world?

Re:will believe when i see it

[Iceykitsune]

yes it does

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Say what you like about Apple, if they announce it you can buy it shortly after.

I am still waiting for my white iPhone 4.

Re:will believe when i see it

[camperdave]

the entire screen was your camera, thus ending the whole 'looking away from the camera in video chat because you are looking at the screen'

I've had that idea myself before, except with each of the red, green, and blue pixels being twinned with a sensor rather than one sensor pixel per triad.

Re:will believe when i see it

[theJML]

So does this mean, "I'll believe it when I see it left in a bar and stolen by Gizmondo" then?

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

If they wait three years then it'll be right on time for a Microsoft product.

Microsoft: "Yesterday's Technology Tomorrow!"

Re:will believe when i see it

[that IT girl]

You say that as though Microsoft has never taken other companies' innovations and profited from others' work...

Re:will believe when i see it

[DinDaddy]

First really good example.

Re:will believe when i see it

[tlhIngan]

Speaking of vaporware, what ever happened to the Origami Project? It really looked like it had potential.Reply to This

They were around. I saw the Samsung model at Fry's one day. Problem was, "cheap tablets" they were - they were like paving stones in size and thickness.

But the complaints on the features were numerous. First, sub-GHz CPU, lame one at that (800MHz Celeron I think?) - so we're talking netbook specs here. A 7" screen that was a really high res 800x480. A battery life somewhere aorund the couple of hours mark. And it still required special stylii because it ran Windows XP Tablet Edition, which requires active digitizers. And while it was cheap, at $1200, it wasn't *that* cheap.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Cicada7]

That's probably an entirely unnecessary degree of resolution.

If we imagine that each 'pixel' is comprised of an individual R, G, and B subpixel, your 'camera' will have triple the resolution of your screen's native resolution.

I think 1 sensor per RGB cluster is plenty fine.

Re:will believe when i see it

[nametaken]

Exactly. Microsoft is terrible about this sort of thing. They already had the Courier, then they shelved it.

It was one of the few MS projects where people seemed to really like the device and got exciting about buying an MS product. Then they just didn't come to market.

So MS... tell me when you actually have a product shipping to the local big-box store. Then I'll care.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft press release no thicker than a tissue of lies!

Re:will believe when i see it

[camperdave]

But you still need to sense red, green, and blue, which means three sensors per pixel. So, no. It's not triple the resolution, it is the same resolution. One sensor per pixel will give you monochrome.

Re:will believe when i see it

[ScrewMaster]

But you still need to sense red, green, and blue, which means three sensors per pixel. So, no. It's not triple the resolution, it is the same resolution. One sensor per pixel will give you monochrome.

Here's a question: how do you get an image out of a simple array of photosensitive elements?

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually tablet computers in various forms have been around since the late 80's.

Earliest example I saw was the Dauphin DTR-1 in like 1993. It was about the size of a paperback book with a grayscale screen and Windows 3.1 with pen extensions.

Had a little 486SLC for a CPU.

http://www.computercloset.org/DauphinDTR1.htm

I remember seeing these at CompUSA when I was a kid for about $2500 or so. I never owned one, they were really pricey. I got a Newton instead.

IBM's ThinkPad 2521 was a tablet with a 386 that came out in 1992. They even had a couple UMPC's in the early thinkpad lineup. Like a lil 486 with a 5" screen.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

"Would anyone really be surprised for a thin Microsoft product".
Ok, everybody - they said "no thicker than a sheet of glass". So, the first thing I asked myself was "a sheet of WHAT KIND of glass?" Bullet-resistant glass is often more than an inch think, so now you're already thicker than the iPad.
This is the beauty of such comparisons, most people are going to think on the thin side, while they are thinking on the thick side. Did they lie? No, of course not! Did they mislead? I think so,

Re:will believe when i see it

[geminidomino]

I was thinking "Sea World Whale Tank" myself.

Re:will believe when i see it

[dwinks616]

That's assuming that each "sensor" is a full, bayer-filtered pixel. I doubt they'd put 3 pixels for the screen in a little square, then on the 4th quarter of that square put 4 more bayer-filtered pixels.

If you put 1/4th of a bayer filter based sensor at each pixels site, your resolution would only be 1/4 the resolution of your monitor. So a 1920x1080 monitor would be a 480x270 camera, and on 1360x768 netbook/small laptop screens, it'd be 340x192, which would be pathetic and look awful. I think I'll keep my 1.3MP built-in webcam rather than "upgrade" to something like this.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

So that gives you what? Half-Life 2, Portal and some unknown clones of puzzle games.

Wake me when Mac OS has at least 10,000 more titles available for it.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft took a TCP/IP stack from BSD. Apple took an entire OS from BSD.

Have a look for yourself at which company does more R&D.

Try harder next time. It's not really that difficult to comprehend.

Re:will believe when i see it

[exomondo]

I wouldn't hold the Xbox of a shining example of good business. While the Xbox has a good marketshare, it does not appear MS will make money on the project. Basically all MS did was pay for marketshare with billions of dollars.

They have actually been making a profit on the xbox console for the last 4 years, despite that it's well-known that console hardware is generally sold at a loss (particularly in its early life) and made up for with game sales. MS have been making a profit on the hardware sales, game sales and xbox live subscriptions so it seems they are doing quite nicely in the console business.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Bigjeff5]

Why do people insist on asking questions without using question marks.

Re:will believe when i see it

[Bigjeff5]

Uh, 1920x1080 is the number of pixels, there are three times that many sub-pixels (the red, green, and blue).

Adding a fourth pixel would mean 1920x1080 of those pixels.

Duh.

Re:will believe when i see it

[jackbird]

Each of which can detect either red, green, or blue light. Dividing the number of RGB pixels by 3. Duh.

Re:will believe when i see it

[jackbird]

Then again, Corning has apparently dusted off its Gorilla Glass product, originally developed in the 1960s, to make ultra-strong glass for displays. This video shows, among other things, a thin sheet of the stuff taking a Wiimote at 65mph, and a baseball at 55mph with no damage.

Re:will believe when i see it

[crazybilly]

From what I hear, it'll run Duke Nukem Forever.

Re:will believe when i see it

[mabhatter654]

Apple Newton was a success, Apple just didn't know what to do with it. The rest were long before Steve was kicked out and came back. The Microsoft examples are from 2010.... big difference.

Who cares about Microsoft Research... we want Microsoft products! If we're not aware of it, then somebody isn't doing their job selling new, innovative software correctly (hint: he dances funny and throws chairs) Software is Microsoft's core product.. where's it at? They barely even sell Microsoft apps (not Windows, office or games) at stores anymore.

Re:will believe when i see it

[dwinks616]

Bayer would divide by 4, since you have GRGB, not just RGB. Thus, contrary to Bigjeff's erroneous claims, a 1920x1080 screen, using the 4th pixel as one of the GRGB subpixels for a camera, you'd have a resolution of 480x270, or 0.129 whopping megapixels.

Sheet of glass?

[Anonymous Coward]

"No thicker than a sheet of glass"

I've never seen a sheet of glass a Microsoft researcher couldn't outwit.

No thicker than...

[pookemon]

A sheet of glass like in a picture frame (2mm) or like in an Aquarium (Several cm's). Maybe, being Microsoft, it starts out as thick as the picture frame glass, but it rapidly expands to be as thick as Aquarium glass. Then it breaks.

Re:No thicker than...

[emj]

Since they incorporate the multitouch in the screen it probably will be thinner than 1cm but I thought Surface was supposed to be a table so I guess it should have a glass surface made of 2cm thick glass..

Re:No thicker than...

[Thanshin]

A sheet of glass like in a picture frame (2mm) or like in an Aquarium (Several cm's).

Marketing: "I said it'll be no thicker than a sheet of glass."
I+D: "That's retarded, we're not even close."
CEO: "Didn't the nuclear bunkers from those desert tests had a window towards the explosion?"
Marketing: "Half as thick as a sheet of glass!"

Re:No thicker than...

[grim-one]

Osaka's Aquarium has 30cm thick plate glass. The tablet may be thicker than it is tall or wide =)

Re:No thicker than...

[Anonymous Coward]

We're talking about Microsoft here, not Adobe.

Re:No thicker than...

[jamesh]

We have some 'Microsoft Certified Partner' glass things that Microsoft gave us to decorate our office with. They are about an inch thick or so. I assume that's what they are referring to.

Re:No thicker than...

[Anonymous Coward]

I find your lack of faith disturbing ;-)

Re:No thicker than...

[Batupx]

As thick as the ones in their windows

Re:No thicker than...

[Ecuador]

30cm? That's silly, why didn't they go with transparent aluminum? Aquariums have been using it since '86...

Re:No thicker than...

[noidentity]

A sheet of glass like in a picture frame (2mm) or like in an Aquarium (Several cm's). Maybe, being Microsoft, it starts out as thick as the picture frame glass, but it rapidly expands to be as thick as Aquarium glass. Then it breaks.

And spills a blue-tinted substance all over the place.

Re:No thicker than...

[Provocateur]

Actual R&D dev mumbling nervously in corner: please don't anyone ask about the wireless pool-sized table it comes with ...please for the love of all that's holy...

Reporter: Er Whats that table there in the corner?

Actual R&D jumps up: The presentation is OVER. No more questions, thank you ladies and gentlement for your time!

Re:No thicker than...

[organgtool]

The tablet may be thicker than it is tall or wide =)

They can call it the Microsoft Choad!

Re:No thicker than...

[Anonymous Coward]

For those interested the exact specifications are as follows:

No thicker than a sheet of glass.
Half as long as piece of string.
Ten times lighter than an iron weight.
Four times as stylish and attractive as a work of art.
More environmentally friendly than a car.
Produced in more ethically sound conditions than a pair of shoes.
Costs about as much as nice chair.
An operating system as reliable as the weather.

Order now (while stocks last) to recieve a free iPad burning kit (rarer than an african mammal)!

Re:No thicker than...

[Anonymous Coward]

...This isn't /b ...

Re:No thicker than...

[PitaBred]

I+D: *punches marketing in the face*

Re:No thicker than...

[ScrewMaster]

30cm? That's silly, why didn't they go with transparent aluminum? Aquariums have been using it since '86...

Yes, but how do we know they didn't invent the stuff?

Re:No thicker than...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_alumina#AlONR

It's here!

how thick?

[dark grep]

The pool fencing around my patio is 10mm thick. The floor of the Auckland tower has glass 25mm thick. So how thick is thick? A pretty pointless claim if you ask me. And three years? In Internet terms it may as well be 30 years. A stupid press release all round.

Re:how thick?

[Thanshin]

Now you understand the use of convincing your population that giving volumes in ping pong balls, areas in stadiums and data volume in libraries of Congress is perfectly fine.

Re:how thick?

[dark grep]

I thought we had all changed to the Elephant standard for distance and volume?

Re:how thick?

[Cidolfas]

My favorite is from the show How It's Made.

They said, "when complete it weighs 10 pounds, about the weight of a full-grown cat."

For the next 2 years, my roomates and I refered to weights in terms of full-grown cats.

Re:how thick?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, I'd be impressed if "no thicker than a small car" were their goal, seeing the size of the current Surface project. No thicker than any sheet of glass seems overly ambitious at this point!

Re:how thick?

[harlows_monkeys]

A stupid press release all round

It wasn't a press release. It was an interview with Bill Buxton, a well-known pioneering computer scientist (SIGCHI Lifetime Achievement Award, Chief Scientist at Alias Wavefront and SGI, pioneered multi-touch interfaces in the '70s, now a principle researcher at Microsoft Research). When the press interviews well-known scientists, it is customary to ask about what new things are coming in the next few years.

Re:how thick?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the old days this was normal for MS. promise something 3-5 years away to stop people moving to competing products. Can't see it working much here though.

Re:how thick?

[Thanshin]

Ten pounds for a cat? 4.5kg??!?

What kind of sick bastard would let his poor cat suffer the required famine to only let him reach 4.5kg? ...

My sister's "Sonar" weights 24 pounds; the cutest ball of fat and fur. :)

Re:how thick?

[KiloByte]

Uhm, a slightly overweight Norwegian Forest cat is 8kg, and that's the biggest race there is. Your sister's kitteh at 11kg sounds like something barely able to move.

Re:how thick?

[Thanshin]

slightly overweight Norwegian Forest cat is 8kg, and that's the biggest race there is. Your sister's kitteh at 11kg sounds like something barely able to move.

Ok, slightly overweight would be a bit too euphemistic. He can walk perfectly well, and his belly does touch the floor. He can't really jump much, though.

Re:how thick?

[ramsun]

My sister's "Sonar" weights 24 pounds; the cutest ball of fat and fur. :)

Shall resist. Should resist. Aw, fuck it, can't.

Your sister's pussy weights how much? And you describe it as "the cutest ball of fat and fur"? You're sick, dude!

Re:how thick?

[Hognoxious]

Indian or African?

Re:how thick?

[Anonymous Coward]

My fully grown cat is only 3.6 kg. He's not a big cat though. They vary in size considerably, you know.

Re:how thick?

[jez9999]

10 and 25 millimetres? That's tiny... didn't you mean centimetres?

Re:how thick?

[tokul]

Your sister's kitteh at 11kg sounds like something barely able to move.

Technically Bengal tiger (225 kg), lynx (11 kg) or bobcat (14 kg) are cats too.

Re:how thick?

[wildstoo]

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Re:how thick?

[wildstoo]

Fun Fact: The Eiffel Tower weighs about as much as 1,888,200 full-grown cats!

Re:how thick?

[Anonymous Coward]

African bush elephant or African forest elephant?

Re:how thick?

[Jarik C-Bol]

Personally, I consider that to be animal abuse. Put the poor thing on a diet, so he can go back to living like a real cat.

Re:how thick?

[Hognoxious]

I don't know.

AAArrrrrrrrrrgh.

Re:how thick?

[Nadaka]

Not true. Cats become spherical at around 50 lbs.

At this point they can still walk by arching their back. And they are still strong enough to climb into a persons lap, resulting in only moderate blood loss and a few stitches.

The cats name was Charlie.

Re:how thick?

[Threni]

> When the press interviews well-known scientists, it is customary to ask about what new things are coming in the next few years.

"So, this new computer...you're saying it's about the size of a piece of string"? Yeah, good old press, up to their usual high standards of technology reporting.

Re:how thick?

[that IT girl]

My cat was long and lean, even though he ate plenty--and was strong and muscular even though he slept as much as any other cat. He was between 8 and 9 pounds as an adult. Sonar is either a much larger breed, or is dangerously overweight. Mine would have been very unhealthy at anything over about 14.

Re:how thick?

[Culture20]

Not true. Cats become spherical at around 50 lbs.

At this point they can still walk by arching their back. And they are still strong enough to climb into a persons lap, resulting in only moderate blood loss and a few stitches.

The cats name was Charlie.

Was? That was before it got the diabeetis and had its feet amputated?

Re:how thick?

[DinDaddy]

I've seen some adult male maine coon cats that were not particularly overweight and were substantially more than 8kg. I recall one at about 11, quite capable of jumping to a surface 6 feet off the floor.

My mom also had a normal tabby that was so round she was basically unable to lick her own belly, and was only about 4kg.

Re:how thick?

[DinDaddy]

No, it tripped at the top of a stepp hill . . .

Re:how thick?

[Scrameustache]

My favorite is from the show How It's Made.

They said, "when complete it weighs 10 pounds, about the weight of a full-grown cat."

For the next 2 years, my roomates and I refered to weights in terms of full-grown cats.

I've been using the Standard Midget as a way to describe volumes since college: "That suitcase can hold two midgets..."

Re:how thick?

[ScrewMaster]

I don't know.

AAArrrrrrrrrrgh.

Damn, guys, nicely worked in Monty Python reference.

Re:how thick?

[frank_adrian314159]

when complete it weighs 10 pounds, about the weight of a full-grown cat...

My cat is much thicker than that, you insensitive clod!

Re:how thick?

[dwinks616]

10mm is pretty thick for glass, and more than thick enough to make a fence from, and 25mm would be perfectly sufficient to hold up people. The stair treads at my local gym are made out of glass and about 25mm thick at most, and people run up and down them all day long.

Re:how thick?

[Culture20]

Google Wilford Brimley and Diabeetus. He got the diabeetus.

Re:how thick?

[dark grep]

25mm is one inch. For tempered glass, I think that is pretty thick - it has a loading weight of something like two tonnes (2 tons) for a 1 metre (1 yard) span. But you see what I mean - an unqualified statement like that could mean anything.

Re:how thick?

[dark grep]

Ha! That's a trick question. Everyone knows at the Brussels conference of 1989 the ISO standard was ratified based on the North African Asiatic Elephant (as used by Hannibal, but now extinct).

Re:how thick?

[dark grep]

Funny, read like a press release. My mistake. I really should pay more attention.

Re:how thick?

[DarthVain]

I weigh the equivalent to 20 full-grown cats for example.

Re:how thick?

[DarthVain]

Or 10 full-grown American cats.

Tried to post something clever...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and was outpaced. Kudos!

cameras are in the pixels now

[mentil]

It's not going to have any cameras or projectors because the cameras will be embedded in the device itself.[...]The best way to think about it is like a big LCD where there's a fourth pixel in every triad. So there's red, green, and blue pixels giving you light, and a fourth pixel which is a sensor that will capture stuff.

Preorder your Microsoft Telescreen today!

Re:cameras are in the pixels now

[a_hanso]

Haha I see what you mean. At least now if you don't trust your software to switch off the built in camera, you can at least put tape over it (I for one *never* trust software over mechanical switches -- mainly because I write software for a living and I know what's usually inside. i also use a 'dumb phone' because when I hit 'OFF' I want it to bloody TURN OFF) On the other hand though, can it capture actual images as opposed to shadows, and if so, how would it do that without a lens?

Re:cameras are in the pixels now

[Vegemeister]

That begs the question,* why isn't this tagged 'telescreen'?

*I'm in ur language, trollin' ur pedants.

Re:cameras are in the pixels now

[LordKronos]

On the other hand though, can it capture actual images as opposed to shadows, and if so, how would it do that without a lens?

Presumably this one won't do it, but if you wanted to do so, all you would need to do is put a layer of microlenses over the camera pixels, with each lens focusing the light from a specific direction. Think of it like a ray caster, where each pixel on the screen is aimed in a slightly different direction. It doesn't even have to be lenses in the traditional sense. Even just a layer that forms a tunnel over each camera pixel, so that light from the "focused" direction hits the pixel and light from other directions hits the side of the tunnel.

unless it's bulletproof glass at the bank

[optikos]

To be even this thin, it seems like either A) the electronics would need to be embedded in the glass or B) the back of the glass would need to be the printed circuit board itself

Re:unless it's bulletproof glass at the bank

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh, but what if you positioned the 3mm thin piece of glass on top of a 3ft x 3ft x 3ft table?

Re:unless it's bulletproof glass at the bank

[MaskedSlacker]

That's a cube, not a table.

Re:unless it's bulletproof glass at the bank

[kiddygrinder]

they can just jam all the electronics not directly related to viewing or receiving input in a block at the bottom or around the screen, they didn't say anything about height, width or either of those in comparison to viewable area

Re:unless it's bulletproof glass at the bank

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point, Masked.

Re:unless it's bulletproof glass at the bank

[Anonymous Coward]

Just remember this is the Microsoft Marketing department talking,
Reasoning is futile to them....
however they will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes :P /Trek /Adams

I think I like the Apple way...

[catbutt]

...of keeping things secret until they are ready to go out the door. Rather than talk about some supposed product 3 years off that probably will never happen.

Re:I think I like the Apple way...

[jcusano]

You mean like this?
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/06/04/26/1536212/Apples-All-Seeing-Screen

Though to be fair, a patent filing is a far cry from the work of a marketing spinster.

Re:I think I like the Apple way...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple doesn't have any research, so they don't have anything pie-in-the-sky to talk about. Microsoft keeps their actual product plans as closely guarded as Apple.

Re:I think I like the Apple way...

[Anonymous Coward]

Get the fck off my /. macfag

Re:I think I like the Apple way...

[DinDaddy]

None is overstating it, but MS does put a lot more into R&D:

http://gizmodo.com/5486798/research-and-development-apple-vs-microsoft-vs-sony

'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

[okmijnuhb]

What kind of glass? Bullet proof?

Re:'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

[Ethanol-fueled]

Transparent Aluminum.

They have their shit tight this time.

Re:'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

[MichaelSmith]

I don't think its a very radical claim. My sons ipod touch is pretty thin. Now if they can make "Minority Report" tablets... Transparent and in arbitrary sizes. Drag and drop objects from any to any.

Re:'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

[MaskedSlacker]

Yes, let's make up more silly claims that even the marketing whack-jobs didn't dare put in the press release....

Don't you get your /. username revoked for posting this kind of shit?

Re:'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

[Anonymous Coward]

More like unobtanium...

Re:'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

[MichaelSmith]

Yes, let's make up more silly claims that even the marketing whack-jobs didn't dare put in the press release....

Specifically?

Re:'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

[12WTF$]

I voted [60] Stephen Conroy. Cross fingers ;).

I DID vote [60] Stephen Conroy and he is STILL Minister for Fascism, Censorship and the Ideology Driven Nanny State.

Re:'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

[MichaelSmith]

I voted [60] Stephen Conroy. Cross fingers ;).

I DID vote [60] Stephen Conroy and he is STILL Minister for Fascism, Censorship and the Ideology Driven Nanny State.

Whats the step after ballot box?

Hey!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody buy an iPad!

Let's all wait for this promised invention from Microsoft, which will be much better than anything we can get today, and is coming Real Soon Now!

Re:Hey!

[jcr]

You know, there was a time when Microsoft was able to kill a company with a vaporware announcement like that. Anyone remember how they announced "Pen Windows" to strangle Go PenPoint in the cradle?

PenPoint was a nice bit of work. Those guys knew what they were doing.

-jcr

Re:Hey!

[headLITE]

You have point. Although if Apple can make devices now that aren't really much thicker than a sheet of glass (or are as thick as a sheet of glass, but smaller, like the iPod), then Microsoft should be able to do the same in three years :)

Re:Hey!

[WillAdams]

Yeah, and even now, there isn't anything conceptually as nice as PenPoint:

  - iPad --- no stylus, no handwriting recognition, functionality bound up in special purpose apps, security features make sharing data between apps or constructing integrated documents difficult

  - Tablet PCs --- adapted Desktop user interface w/ Tablet functionality bolted over mouse-oriented features

  - Android --- intended for small screen smart phones, doesn't handle screen rotation or larger sizes well

The sad thing is how interesting and innovative PenPoint apps and vendors have morphed (or vanished) --- FutureWave's SmartSketch, a PenPoint, stylus-centric vector drawing program became Flash, while PenMagic, PenSoftSlate &c. have vanished.

William

Re:Hey!

[bluefoxlucid]

I want sytli back. They stopped shipping them because "people hate the stylus." No handwriting recognition, no advanced UIs.

Re:Hey!

[that IT girl]

Nobody buy an iPad!

To be fair, you could have just stopped there.

Re:Hey!

[anonymousNR]

for those interested I found video somewhere on internet

Re:Hey!

[HalAtWork]

This is exactly why MS will always be behind... they wait until an idea is already popular, and then they try and jump on it with their own spin ("hey it's the same thing but with our store and it's got SilverLight(TM)!"). They commit to it half-heartedly, making potential customers apprehensive. Then if it catches on, instead of putting real muscle behind it, MS just coasts until it either sinks or floats and then they let it stagnate. Microsoft will never "be what's next" unless they really get a grip on a specific direction and commit to it. They will never do that because "the hot new thing" is changing all the time and MS are always trying to pounce on it as if they can catch it and put it in a cage. They're convinced that it's possible. Meanwhile companies like Apple are in the driver's seat coming up with very nice devices that they've put thought into from the ground up. They may fail like the Newton but when they catch on it takes forever for everyone else to catch up.

Re:Hey!

[dwinks616]

styli is not a word. Stylus is not Latin, at all. There is a word in Latin of stilus. For stylus to be even remotely pluralized correctly to styli, there'd have to be a word in Latin, which there isn't, of 'stylius'. As such, the only correct way to pluralize stylus is as styluses, anything else, no matter how commonly used in error, is still wrong. Just the same as viri and virii being wrong and 'alot' and 'noone' not being real words.

Re:Hey!

[jcr]

PenPoint also had an Objective-C implementation. I remember Andy Novobilsky showing me that back around the time of PenPoint's launch.

-jcr

"Next three years"

[angry tapir]

I think that the "within the next three years" could represent quite a long time in terms of the evolution of tablets, so I'm not that impressed.

Technology

[Anonymous Coward]

Once upon a time there was a device named courier...

Patent Infringement?

[PolygamousRanchKid]

a fourth pixel which is a sensor that will capture stuff

Didn't someone here on Slashdot have a patent titled, "A Method and Process of Doing Things with Stuff" . . . ?

It looks like Microsoft might have an intellectual property problem here . . .

Re:Patent Infringement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quite unlikely, there's nothing intellectual about microsoft's property.

Re:Patent Infringement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Make it trademark infringement:
1. Start a company which sells window cleaning tissue which is very soft and with microscopic capilar tubes (to the uninitiated: this sounds more complicated than it is). Call it "Microsoft Windows".
2. Wait for MS to release it's window.
3. ???
4. Sue MS for entering your market (cf. Apple vs Apple)
5. Profit!

Re:Patent Infringement?

[MintOreo]

MOD PARENT UP. Creating electonics of this this sort is akin to connecting a lego head to a lego body; a small child or perhaps even a baby could do it. If Apple was the one trying to do it, it would be a work of genius, since the inevitably sleek, cool look could only be concocted by Steve Jobs himself!

Re:Patent Infringement?

[jamesh]

It's just an expression. Like, "kick your butt" could involve no kicking whatsoever.

Re:Patent Infringement?

[Anonymous Coward]

You read too much into online reviews, methinks. Take it easy, there are more important thins in life to attach to emotionally than a company ticker.

Re:Patent Infringement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I patent "A Method and Process to Patent a Method and Process of Doing things with Stuff with the intent of suing infringers at a later date for profit"? I'd make a fortune!!!

Re:Patent Infringement?

[HiggsBison]

Didn't someone here on Slashdot have a patent titled, "A Method and Process of Doing Things with Stuff" . . . ?

I claimed to have a patent on doing things with stuff. Someone claimed prior art in doing stuff with things. And I think someone trumped that with simply doing things or doing stuff. I can't go that far back in my posting history so as to find the thread.

Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Parts of this concept seem awfully familiar...

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/06/04/26/1536212/Apples-All-Seeing-Screen

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[cupique]

My thoughts exactly.

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[Taagehornet]

Bill Buxton isn't just some random Microsoft employee, he's one of the pioneers of the industry, and has been working with multi-touch systems since back in the early eighties.

Contrary to popular belief Apple didn't invent multi-touch

Multi-touch technologies have a long history. To put it in perspective, my group at the University of Toronto was working on multi-touchin 1984 (Lee, Buxton & Smith, 1985), the same year that the first Macintosh computer was released, and we were not the first. Furthermore, during the development of the iPhone, Apple was very much aware of the history of multi-touch, dating at least back to 1982, and the use of the pinch gesture, dating back to 1983. This is clearly demonstrated by the bibliography of the PhD thesis of Wayne Westerman, co-founder of FingerWorks, a company that Apple acquired early in 2005, and now an Apple employee:

Westerman, Wayne (1999). Hand Tracking,Finger Identification, and Chordic Manipulation on a Multi-Touch Surface. U of Delaware PhD Dissertation: http://www.ee.udel.edu/~westerma/main.pdf

In making this statement about their awareness of past work, I am not criticizing Westerman, the iPhone, or Apple. It is simply good practice and good scholarship to know the literature and do one's homework when embarking on a new product. What I am pointing out, however, is that "new" technologies - like multi-touch - do not grow out of a vacuum. While marketing tends to like the "great invention" story, real innovation rarely works that way. In short, the evolution of multi-touch is a text-book example of what I call "the long-nose of innovation."

Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

It's probably the other way round. Nice troll though.

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[Anonymous Coward]

The interview is with Bill Buxton who has been playing with multi-touch interfaces since the 70-ties.
For all I care Apple could be copying Microsoft's research department, which is a dead-end in terms of delivered products, but still there's lots of stuff going on in there.

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[samkass]

Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

It's probably the other way round. Nice troll though.

Yeah, yeah, is guy's a genius and did a lot of pioneering work in multi-touch. Now back to the original poster's point instead if pulling things out of context to start a flame war. Apple's been working on LCD-as-a-sensor for awhile, as has been published by Slashdot in the past. This entire story is kind of a "me too" response to the Apple one. Apple has gotten so far aged of Microsoft in the touch interface arena that, regardless of how pedigreed the scientists Microsoft keeps locked away, it's completely reasonable to ask how much influence Apple's published work has on Microsoft's research today.

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[NatasRevol]

If only Microsoft's product division copied their research department, they might start catching up!

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[bluefoxlucid]

Contrary to popular belief Apple didn't invent multi-touch

[...] my group at the University of Toronto was working on multi-touchin 1984 (Lee, Buxton & Smith, 1985), the same year that the first Macintosh computer was released, and we were not the first. [...] Wayne Westerman, co-founder of FingerWorks, a company that Apple acquired early in 2005, and now an Apple employee

Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

Yes, seems that way.

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[Taagehornet]

Well played sir, well played. However:

[...] my group at the University of Toronto was working on multi-touchin 1984 (Lee, Buxton & Smith, 1985), the same year that the first Macintosh computer was released, and we were not the first. [...] Wayne Westerman, co-founder of FingerWorks, a company that Apple acquired early in 2005, and now an Apple employee:

Westerman, Wayne (1999). [...] U of Delaware PhD Dissertation

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[bluefoxlucid]

Yeah, that was his Ph.D. thesis ... no mention of when he started his research, or who was researching this stuff in the 1970s. But the guy did found the main company that tried to market the stuff, and then got bought by Apple... first to market vs first to invent, and I suspect neither of these have first to invent. As Microsoft didn't make it to market first....

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Jeez. You brought this back up from your capture file. This is the exact same quote I replied to half a year ago or so...

Anyway Bill Buxton doesn't complain about Apple receiving accolades about it's multi-touch UI in the iPhone. From your linked article:

In making this statement about their awareness of past work, I am not criticizing Westerman, the iPhone, or Apple. It is simply good practice and good scholarship to know the literature and do one's homework when embarking on a new product. What I am pointing out, however, is that "new" technologies - like multi-touch - do not grow out of a vacuum. While marketing tends to like the "great invention" story, real innovation rarely works that way. In short, the evolution of multi-touch is a text-book example of what I call "the long-nose of innovation."

He wanted to make sure that everyone knew that innovation doesn't happen overnight and usually involves pioneers other than the current innovator.

What Apple is rightfully credited with is having a multi-gestured UI where the display is within the tablet and placing it all in a form-factor suitable to used as a cellphone. This involved creating an OS geared toward the task as well as hardware components that would make the weight and size requirements of the design. Not to mention have the targeted battery life.

The Simon shown in the article was the first smartphone with a touch UI, however it only allowed single touch gestures.

Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?
It's probably the other way round. Nice troll though.

Looking at the same article, I see that Microsoft Surface can be traced back to Digital Desk (Pierre Wellner, et.al. '91), Graspable/Tangible Interfaces (University of Toronto '95), Active Desk (University of Toronto '95/'97), T3 (Alias|Wavefront, Toronto), Fingerworks ('98 Newark, Delaware), etc... So I'm highly doubtful it was the other way around.

If anything this should serve as proof on how important academic research is, since almost all of the innovations we are taking advantage of are a result of university research projects across the globe.

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's fascinating, but the "new screen technology" that Mr Buxton says Microsoft is developing seems to already be patented by Apple - at least in the way he described it. I don't believe Apple invented multi-touch, and I don't know any other techie that believes that, either; so by "popular belief" I guess you must mean non-techies (who would have no business being on this site.) Nice troll though.

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[Anonymous Coward]

As an EE undergrad at Delaware, I had Prof. Westerman as a teacher in 2000 (he was an Assistant Professor at that time, I believe). Us students were well aware of FingerWorks, as the prof would mention it in class and we would see the prototype keyboards used by the department secretaries (the keyboards were just multi-touch surfaces, no displays underneath them). A few of my fellow undergrads even worked on parts of the tech as part of UD's push to expose undergrads to research.

I remember thinking that the whole multi-touch concept was pretty cool, but the gesture inputs were a bit goofy - to open a file, one placed their fingertips on the surface, then rotated them like you were opening a jar (clockwise to open the file, counter-clockwise to close it).

Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

[Taagehornet]

Jeez. You brought this back up from your capture file. This is the exact same quote I replied to half a year ago or so...

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't recall having ever discussed anything relating to this with you. But true, I've linked to Bill Buxton's write-up before, and I figure I'd better apologize in advance, cause I'll probably do it again. Even though it wasn't written yesterday it's still an excellent piece.

Yes, I'm quite aware of the central theme of the article, I've actually read it, and if you hadn't been so eager to reply, you might have spotted that I did include the paragraph you echoed a second time.

But thanks for your reply, and despite the harsh tone, I doubt we disagree about anything here at all.

Though Steve Jobs' habit of claiming ownership of all great inventions rubs me the wrong way (this year Apple invented videotelephony), Apple deserves credit for their work on the iPhone; it was nothing short of a revolution.

great scanner!

[FranTaylor]

How can you preview the scan when the scanned object is covering the display?

Re:great scanner!

[molecular]

with fifth mirror pixel

Re:great scanner!

[Stephen Samuel]

Well, given that the display doesn't actually exist, I expect that the object will actually fall through, after which it will be very easy to see where the display is (supposed to be).

Besides which, a 19inch 2400pixel display with one sensor per pixel would only give you a 126dpi scan ... that's not enough for much of anything, these days.

Within next three years?

[VincenzoRomano]

Within 3 years people will forget about this promise, Microsoft will change its mind and technology will deliver something completely different from tablets.

Standard Microsoft Tactics

[am 2k]

When you have nothing to compete against a product, just post a press release containing promises about whatever the marketing department can come up with.

Given Microsoft's non-relevancy in the mobile area, this might fail horribly this time though.

Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics

[Sockatume]

Assuming that they're discussing the touchscreen, as their engineer discusses, and not the entire device as the article interpolates, then this is neither particularly unlikely nor extraordinarily novel. Building sensing systems directly into LCDs seems to be a popular idea these days, although Surface's generality will probably present a challenge.

Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics

[harlows_monkeys]

Why didn't you RTFA?

Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics

[Pieroxy]

Why didn't you RTFA?

Welcome to slashdot. This must be your first day here, enjoy it while it lasts.

Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics

[am 2k]

I actually have read the article, and it doesn't invalidate my statement. Half a year ago I talked to a scientist working in the area of multitouch surfaces, and he told me that their approach is horrible and that they're never going to get anywhere with it, except into installations that have too much money to spend.

Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics

[Rockoon]

I actually have read the article, and it doesn't invalidate my statement.

...'cept for the fact that its not a press release... the entire premise of your post... yeah, other than that your statements arent invalidated at all.

Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics

[am 2k]

So you think just because there isn't a "Press Release" headline, that statement in the interview was done on a hunch and not effected by the marketing department in some way?

Re:Caveat

[Bing Tsher E]

Minix runs in Bochs on my old 486 with NT 4.0 installed.

Windows on Window?

[EricX2]

Does that mean we can have windows running on a window?

Re:Windows on Window?

[nacturation]

Does that mean we can have windows running on a window?

What a pane.

Re:Windows on Window?

[Anonymous Coward]

sure, but do you really want to be fighting with the anti-virus software when winter comes 'round?

Re:Windows on Window?

[NatasRevol]

Well, it would be easier than the current anti-virus software!

Wipe on, wipe off instead of install in safemode, download updates, run scan for hours, reboot, download more updates, run another scan for hours, reboot.

Ought to be enough for anybody

[Anonymous Coward]

Today: "The thickness of a sheet of glass ought to be enough for anybody."
3 years from now: "The glass, as it turns out, needs to be as thick as the length of a football field. Sorry 'bout that."

Anyone know any good glass companies to invest in?

and the advantage is?

[Anonymous Coward]

Creating screens a few mm thick is a function of OLED, not anything Microsoft does.

Putting photo transistors in screens is pretty obvious; it's also been proposed for scanning ("just hold the paper up to the screen"). But regular touch screen technologies give you better touch response, add almost nothing to the thickness, and leave the fourth pixel available... to be a fourth pixel, giving you better color or more brightness.

Squant

[pellik]

So in addition to the three light emitting colors that come standard, their LCDs contain a new, light capturing color. This isn't news, squant has been known for years.

Re:Squant

[dwinks616]

The only primary color known to have it's own scent!

I can't wait!

[hoggoth]

This is great. I can't wait to get one. I will carry it in my backpack while I fly around in my jet pack which will be powered by cold fusion.

Re:I can't wait!

[paulkoan]

Never wear a jetpack and a backpack at the same time.

Re:I can't wait!

[mikeage]

This is great. I can't wait to get one. I will carry it in my backpack while I fly around in my jet pack which will be powered by cold fusion.

To make things even better, you'll be able to play Duke Nukem Forever on it!

Re:I can't wait!

[macbuzz01]

I'm going to wait until I can get a jet pack powered by Cold Fusion on Rails.

Re:I can't wait!

[L4t3r4lu5]

With enough XML, you could probably get your DN:F UI input to control the jetpack!

Re:I can't wait!

[Anonymous Coward]

So does that mean that instead of burning your legs you'll be freezing your torso?

Re:I can't wait!

[shutdown -p now]

I will carry it in my backpack while I fly around in my jet pack which will be powered by cold fusion

I'm sorry to say, but it's likely that you'll only have enough power from cold fusion to run one of those at a time. ~

no thicker than a piece of glass...

[Anonymous Coward]

and as long as a piece of string

Re:no thicker than a piece of glass...

[nomoreunusednickname]

and they were high as a kite when they came up with that analogy

Already Got One

[DynaSoar]

"...that will capture stuff..."

I've got one of those. It's called a keyboard, but its primary function seems to be to capture stuff. Cookie crumbs, coffee spills, cigarette ashes...

Does anyone else find the prospect of running Windows on a window to be a bit surreal? What's next, wearable computers so you could have a Macintosh on your rain coat?

Re:Already Got One

[Hognoxious]

What's next, wearable computers so you could have a Macintosh on your rain coat?

I would literally run Red Hat Linux.

Re:Already Got One

[dkh2]

In my office they banned blue jeans so I'm going with Slackware.

Re:Already Got One

[dwinks616]

I think you meant having a Macintosh on your Macintosh. =)

Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[Haedrian]

Marketting: So, how thick will it be?
Development: X cms thick
Marketting: Cool, that's almost as thick as the glass in my family picture frame, "No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass" - perfect
Development: Uh, but won't that be ambigious - and since the majority of people who are going to care enough to read this are going to have more intelligence than a potted plant - and actually question how thick the glass will be... won't this make us look like a bunch of idiots?
Marketting: Sheet of Glass! Perfect.

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[DerekLyons]

Development: Uh, but won't that be ambigious - and since the majority of people who are going to care enough to read this are going to have more intelligence than a potted plant - and actually question how thick the glass will be... won't this make us look like a bunch of idiots?

No, only the pedantic types with an axe to grind, time on their hands, and karma to whore will actually ask how thick the sheet will be. The rest of us will assume "somewhere in the general vicinity of normal window or auto glass", since that's what the phrase "as thick as a sheet of glass" usually means.

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[clone53421]

I am a pedantic type with an axe to grind, and even I knew that they obviously meant the first thing that would occur to most people’s minds when they thought of a pane of glass.

The part that I considered an atrocious abuse of language was the part where he claimed that there will be four pixels per triad. He could have just said that instead of using triads of pixels (3 pixels per group... red, green, and blue) they will have tetrads: 4 pixels per group; red, green, blue, and an extra 4th pixel that is a simple light sensor.

But no... his triads go to FOUR.

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[Anonymous Coward]

Marketing: "And then I said, 'It'll be no thicker than a sheet of glass.' LOL."
CEO: [Chortle]
Engineering: "That foolish. We don't know how thick it will have to be yet to fit the optics in there. We haven't even finished it!"
Marketing: "But that's the beauty of it. I've said exactly nothing about how thick it is. People might have an idea of how thick glass typically is, but glass thickness varies a lot, doesn't it? So, make it as thick as you like."
Engineering: "Oh."
CEO: [Rolls eyes]
Marketing: "That's why I'm in marketing and you're in engineering, and I'm making twice as much as you."
CEO: [Snort] Ok, meeting adjourned, get back to work. Marketing and I have to go to lunch.
Engineering: "But it's 11am! Lunch doesn't start until 12."
Marketing: "They just don't get it, do they?"

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[sootman]

Fuck everything, we're doing five pixels.

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see the problem. douglas adams did the same thing with the hitchhikers "trilogy".

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[1s44c]

No, only the pedantic types with an axe to grind, time on their hands, and karma to whore will actually ask how thick the sheet will be. The rest of us will assume "somewhere in the general vicinity of normal window or auto glass", since that's what the phrase "as thick as a sheet of glass" usually means.

News flash - Companies imply things that are untrue in order to sell their products. Companies think nothing of misleading with phrases like 'up to' or by bumping prices up then discounting them back to normal and pretending it's a special sale discount.

Don't make me say that 'assume' makes an ASS out of U and ME.

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[Anonymous Coward]

They really should go to FIVE, or [#%$!$ it] all the way to SIX, because Sharp's pixels already go to four (which they call "Quad Pixel" technology, which at least makes sense).

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[NatasRevol]

Sorry, but marketing isn't that smart.

But they are that ass-kissing!

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[painandgreed]

I am a pedantic type with an axe to grind, and even I knew that they obviously meant the first thing that would occur to most people's minds when they thought of a pane of glass.

The first thing that occurred to my mind when I read it was simply that they were lying. Another vapor product in an impressive array of vapor products.

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're just pulling a HHGTTG on us.

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Microsoft, remember. With MS's math skills we can determine 6.1 = 7

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[marcosdumay]

Well, I'm not very pedantic... But, after reading it I tough, if they can't even know the exact size, there is no chance they are going to release it. Ever.

Ok, the researcher probably had an exact size in mind, but that took a quite long time to cross my mind.

Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting?

[DarthVain]

I thought we were measuring things in terms of Library of Congress and Football fields... I must have missed the memo.

What...

[Anonymous Coward]

and what kind of voodoo will I have to do when I need to re-install the OS? Will I have to type in an 80-digit code? Will I have to crawl through a doggy door and beg my masters to re-activate the thing? Over the past fifteen years, I've gotten so fed up with this company's tactics that I refuse to buy anything from them. I steer everybody I know to Macs or Linux.

Typical Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's the thickness. Once we figure this out it's game over!"

It's the software, stupid.

Bad article, Really bad summary

[Sockatume]

The original article is discussing Surface's touch panel and display, which are currently a weird hodge-podge of tech, being shrunk down into a single panel which is as thin as a sheet of glass. Nothing the engineer says suggests that the whole device will be that size. Furthermore the "three year" comments are about Surface's possible consumer launch, and nothing to do with the new panel at all. PC Pro's blog dump is completely dire, read the second link.

Re:Bad article, Really bad summary

[NekSnappa]

There you go. Reading the article, and making sense, and spoiling everybodys fun. There's one in every crowd.

Is "thickness" an important feature nowadays ?

[obarthelemy]

or is MS so much at their wits' end that they don't even know which feature to hype for their "we'll do that in 3 years, honest, you can stop buying iPads now" PR campaigns ?

Re:Is "thickness" an important feature nowadays ?

[UnknowingFool]

Well it's an interview with a MS researcher not a MS press release. Researchers typically don't work on actual products but the ideas that might someday lead to a product.

Re:Is "thickness" an important feature nowadays ?

[1s44c]

Is "thickness" an important feature nowadays ?

Thinkness is the single most defining attribute of windows users.

Re:Is "thickness" an important feature nowadays ?

[bluefoxlucid]

Flatness costs.

But will it run Android ?

[Anonymous Coward]

:-)

Poor summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Typical /. summary, this is the guy's predictions, nowhere in the interview does he 'promise' anything, these are just his predictions.

In any case, it's basically true, image capture built into an LCD display is a known technology, and the 'essential' components are in a space as thin as a sheet of glass except for the LCD backlight, a problem which Microsoft's Wedge lens development neatly solves. http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/content/projects/wedge.aspx

This MS flack...

[RocketRabbit]

This MS flack sounds like he got into the cooking sherry...

Only one thing to say

[Chrisq]

Microsoft will deliver a touchscreen PC that is 'no thicker than a sheet of glass'

That's smashing!

But...

[Anonymous Coward]

... Does it run Linux?

Re:But...

[yes it is]

... Does it run Linux?

If I had mod points I would mod you up!

Georgia Aquarium

[Roger W Moore]

Apparently, since you can get glass over 60cm thick, at least as thick as the person who used that description. I suppose they'll be telling us that the screen is as long as a piece of string next.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[WoLpH]

Indeed... are we talking sealife glass here or iPhone 4 screen glass? Huge difference ofcourse...

I wonder how many libraries of congress will fit on it.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[LifesABeach]

If Linux cannot be ported to it, then the product will look like a clear example of a Paper Weight?.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[h4rm0ny]

The last thing I would want would be a device that was as thin as the panel on my phone. Okay, I want my device to be light, but I also want it to have a reasonable chance of surviving being sat on.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[JasoninKS]

I agree totally. The first image that comes to mind is an 8 1/2 x 11 size device, roughly a quarter inch thick. And you're right, that could be easily snapped. But, I suppose iPads and such really aren't much different and I haven't heard of those snapping yet. But as was mentioned, a sheet of glass can be awfully thick. :)

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[cromar]

You know it is not imperative to be specific in casual speech. Since everyone knows more or less what the writer meant, I see little merit in your argument.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, I want my device to be light, but I also want it to have a reasonable chance of surviving being sat on.

An impossible dream for myself, and most slashdot readers.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[DinDaddy]

It's not casual speech though, it's a marketing claim, and as such, is formed of the usual carefully chose weasel words.

All existing tablets are "no thicker than a sheet of glass". If the glass is the sheet from your glass coffee table, a fairly common type of glass sheet.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[tehcyder]

I suppose they'll be telling us that the screen is as long as a piece of string next.

African or European?

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[Nyder]

I agree totally. The first image that comes to mind is an 8 1/2 x 11 size device, roughly a quarter inch thick. And you're right, that could be easily snapped. But, I suppose iPads and such really aren't much different and I haven't heard of those snapping yet.

But as was mentioned, a sheet of glass can be awfully thick. :)

You seem to be confusing sheet of glass with sheet of paper.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[Anonymous Coward]

Ill tell ya where you Linux Fanboys can 'PORT' your Linux to.......
OMG everything I own must run Linux.....
My stove My Fridge , My Coat , My TV , My Toaster , My Cat , My Dog.
Just because Linux doesnt run on it doesnt mean its useless , and just because it has a small logo of an apple on it doesnt make it instant gold.

Re:Georgia Aquarium

[Beardo the Bearded]

Can you sharpen the edges?

With x86....else is it really Windows?

[jabjoe]

If they use a x86 to compete with the ARM tablets it will have shorter battery life and run hot. If they use ARM (or something else giving good mA/mips), then people won't understand why it can't run their Windows software. If it looks and feels like Windows (and actually code wise, is Windows) but can't run Windows software, people won't like it. The platform is Windows software. It's the closed source curse, you are stuck on the hardware and API things are compiled for. Of course their is byte code, but then they will be competing again other tablets of similar spec, but with their apps byte coded while the others (Apple/Linux) are native. If that happens, bet MS's own apps are native for each platform, but they advice developers to use .NET to cover all MS platforms. But even then, are most consumers going to understand the difference between .NET apps and native apps? This to me has all the marks of a money blackhole while they try and complete in the tablet space.

Re:With x86....else is it really Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Intel Atom. They're getting there.

Re:With x86....else is it really Windows?

[jabjoe]

I'm not so convinced. Long way to go, lots of obstacles inherent to x86. I will believe when I see it.

Re:With x86....else is it really Windows?

[Alioth]

It's a marketing problem.

Apple users don't expect iPads and iPhones to run Macintosh software, even if these devices run a flavour of OSX - Apple doesn't call it that - they call it iOS, so no one expects OS X programs to run on it. If Microsoft were to not call their mobile OS 'Windows', then the confusion would go away. Instead of calling it 'Windows Mobile' which kind of gives the expectation that it's just Windows and you can run desktop software on it, they could call it something else. Perhaps 'Doors'.

Re:With x86....else is it really Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of calling it 'Windows Mobile' which kind of gives the expectation that it's just Windows and you can run desktop software on it, they could call it something else. Perhaps 'Doors'.

...or even worse, "Screens"

Re:With x86....else is it really Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

there's also a thing called winCE, which runs on ARM, and powers windows mobile 6.5/phone 7/zune.

Microsoft is not afraid to use different UIs for different tasks. The same way apple used a different UI for iOS and no one complained about it, microsoft uses different UIs for their desktop, mobile, and gaming platforms (and no one has complained about it yet, except for you apparently)

Re:With x86....else is it really Windows?

[jabjoe]

They don't advertise WinCE as Windows. It's not a visible brand. Anything they called Windows, must run Windows software, and Windows software is x86. Windows is its software, few comes to Windows for Windows. Oh and I'm not complaining, just commenting.

Re:With x86....else is it really Windows?

[jabjoe]

Yes, it's a marketing problem. But it's a big one for them. They can't use the weight of the Windows brand. Now true, they pulled that off, just about, with XBox. But man did it cost them, few companies would have had the money to keep pumping in at that scale for so long. If they do use the Window brand, it needs to run Windows software, this isn't like a phone, people expect it to be more of a computer. What caught people by surprise with the iPhone was that it almost was a computer, but because it wasn't, they didn't expect the same software. It was successful because of that, and iPad is piggy backing on the iPhone success by using the same software. When this MS-tablet comes out, all it will have against the other tablets is that it is thin (and the others are quite thin already). Being able to run the software people know, would be a win, but that means x86, and even then, it must be powerful enough to run the day's Windows software. That means hotter and shorter battery life compared with the ARM tablets that people will be use to by then. If they do a ARM thing, it will have much less software then the other tablets, and I bet they use the Windows brand because it will increase sales, until everyone understands it's not really Windows in that it can't run Windows software. Either way, I see this as a coming flop. But time will tell.

Re:With x86....else is it really Windows?

[sergueyz]

There was a CPU called Dragon chip, it is a basically MIPS CPU with special support for QEMU to emulate x86. They bolted over 200 instructions to help QEMU speed up emulation and they succeed: "With additional improvements in QEMU from ICT, Loongson-3 achieves an average of 70% the performance of executing native binaries while running x86 binaries from nine benchmarks." For 500 MHz Loongson you'll get 350 MHz x86.

Intel could go that way - ARM and x86.

Sounds great!

[jcr]

Now, can I get it with a decent OS on it, or will it only work with Windows?

-jcr

Re:Sounds great!

[dkh2]

I see it now! they call it the Microsoft Window PC (Note, singular form of "Window").

Hey! My Window is booting to Linux!

Re:Sounds great!

[shutdown -p now]

Worry not, you'll get your Plan 9 tablet sometime in 2020.

One last time...how many pixels do you see?

[Anonymous Coward]

THERE ARE FOUR PIXELS!

Maybe they could call it...

[dotancohen]

I know of other MS products that resemble a (fragile) sheet of glass. Windows, anyone?

Re:Maybe they could call it...

[TeethWhitener]

I figured they'd call it a "telescreen" or something along those lines.

Re:Maybe they could call it...

[wfolta]

I know of other MS products that resemble a (fragile) sheet of glass. Windows, anyone?

So you're saying that he was actually saying that the device would be Windows-based and the interviewer perhaps misunderstood the quote? ;-)

Blue glass!

[Anonymous Coward]

Blue glass, no doubt :-) (BSOD)

Ok...

[Anonymous Coward]

At Soviet Microsoft... Monitor watches you

Embedded

[Orphaze]

Not commenting on this potential vaporware, but embedded cameras in LCD screens might single handedly make video conferencing pleasant. Presently, the distance between the camera and screen mean video chatting is essentially an exercise in watching another person watch their computer while having a conversation with you.

Apart from latency / bandwidth issues, I think that is the largest thing that has prevented video chat from taking off. It's not at all like talking face to face with a real human being.

Re:Embedded

[cyclomedia]

I doubt it'll be cameras, Surface currently works by recognising silhouettes and shape recognition, a sensor-per-pixel could still perform this function in a crude, but elegant manner without having to actually be a camera.

Re:Embedded

[clone53421]

They aren’t cameras in the sense that you’re thinking. For video-conferencing, you need a real camera: light focused onto many pixels to form a picture. This is unfocused light falling on the pixels themselves, like an insect’s eye... good for detecting motion but capable of determining the shape of objects only if they are very close to the sensor, by the shape of the grouping of pixels which are directly covered by the object.

However, it’s not like an embedded camera is anything spectacular. Lots of laptop computers are sold with a tiny embedded webcam right above the screen. This could just as easily be done in this tablet. However, it would be completely separate from the light sensor pixels in the screen itself, which would not be capable of capturing a focused image.

Re:Embedded

[MichaelSmith]

I don't know how fast those light sensors are but imagine if you could do interferometry with the baseline being the width of the tablet. With a coherent light source you might be able to do something like holography.

Re:Embedded

[Anonymous Coward]

There are horrible implications for masterbatorial privacy but loads of potential for interactive web cam sex services.

!

Re:Embedded

[Anonymous Coward]

Curiously, you chose to comment the most vaporous part of the idea...

Re:Embedded

[Chris Rhodes]

Use one of those new high-power blue lasers for it, and make sure to put someone you don't like in the holographic scanning space.

Re:Embedded

[wfolta]

As mentioned above, Apple has patented (I believe) the idea, and evidently intended it for exactly what the parent thought. Perhaps they were only concerned with silhouettes and it was speculation that they meant photos, but so far Apple's concentrated on multi-touch and not gestures.

Last time MS published anything noteworthy?

[fadir]

I don't remember that Microsoft published anything really new the last decade or so.

Sure, the Kinect stuff sounds good - on paper. But when I actually saw it in action on the GDC Europe and noticed that they had an instructor in every booth to teach people how to actually use it and afterwards still people failed to use it properly, just because it doesn't seem to work all that intuitive, I noticed that this will be just another failure. Apart from this I really fail to see any serious innovation coming from Microsoft at all. They are quite ok at copying whatever someone else has built before, but that's about it.

If anyone will deliver such a ground breaking device then it will be Google, Apple or some Chinese startup whose name no one has heard of before - but definitely not Microsoft.

Re:Last time MS published anything noteworthy?

[FaxeTheCat]

>I don't remember that Microsoft published anything really new the last decade or so.

You should not blame Microsoft for your bad memory.

Re:Last time MS published anything noteworthy?

[fadir]

Care to help my oh-so-bad-memory a bit then instead of just complaining?

Please, oh please...

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell me that Bill Buxton's collar isn't popped in that pic?

In three years!?

[Jugalator]

That's ages in this business! If MS is talking about next-generation features in this tablet, well, that's what the competition will offer by then as well. What happened three years ago? Well, we saw the first pictures of the iPhone. Yeah, I'm talking about the iPhone "1".

If MS is giving these timeframes, it seems to just be about wanting to create some buzz and focus on Microsoft, rather than them willing to discuss product releases.

Fragility

[Wowsers]

So what Microsoft are saying is that in three years time, Slashdoters will be writing an article comparing which is more fragile - the hardware or the Operating System. For the first time people really will be able to use the moniker "broken Windows"!?!

Logic Fail

[CrashandDie]

It's not going to have any cameras or projectors because the cameras will be embedded in the device itself.

So... it doesn't have cameras because it has cameras?

That's a whole new level of whoosh for me.

I'll believe it when I see it

[Thraxy]

I call Longhorn...

A fourth pixel in every triad?

[clone53421]

a big LCD where there's a fourth pixel in every triad

That word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Fuck everything... we’re doing five pixels per triad!

Like this http://nizen.net ?

[noddyxoi]

Like this http://nizen.net/ ?

Hmmm

[maroberts]

Maine Coons are similar to Forest Cats and I can say from experience that I had an 11kg male that wasn't overweight. There are reports of up to 15kg without being overweight, but I haven't met a real life one. One of my female Maine Coons is only 4.5 kg though.

Incidentally, a wet Maine Coon looks a lot smaller than a dry one!

Re:Caveat

[pinkushun]

In retrospect, this article is Redundant, making my post redundant, making this post mod Redundant. Next time, improve the /. moderation system by spending positive points.

sales reps make bad analogy

[confused one]

My desk is a 8mm thick piece of tempered glass. I have a round blank cut from a 3/4" (19mm) plate in my workshop (that's going to be used to make a telescope mirror). They really should be more specific.

Apple patent on pixel sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

4th pixel element is a sensor?

I seem to recall that apple has a patent precisely for that

Transparent Aluminum?

[Anonymous Coward]

CEO: It's for transporting Humpbacks
Engineer: Humbacked People?

Wow

[Junior J. Junior III]

Sheets of glass vary in thickness. How thin is thin?

Glass Substrate?

[stevusmichaels]

Maybe they are talking about a device no thicker than glass because they're building it on a sheet of glass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_transistor

Exeter and Brack want one

[Muad'Dave]

So there's red, green, and blue pixels giving you light, and a fourth pixel which is a sensor that will capture stuff ...

Add a fifth pixel to burn stuff up, lift airplanes, and kill the professor from Gilligan's Island, and you've got an Interocitor.

How thick is a sheet of glass?...

[dkh2]

How long is a piece of string?

How trampy is ( choose one of B. Spears, K. Perry, other of your choice ) ?

How evil is Microsoft?

So many questions... so few answers.

Say what you will about the tenets of...

[BetterSense]

Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, dude; at least it's an ethos.

Re:Say what you will about the tenets of...

[sortius_nod]

Thanks for godwining a perfectly good topic.

Re:Say what you will about the tenets of...

[Scrameustache]

Thanks for godwining a perfectly good topic.

Yeah? Well that's like... your opinion, man.

That posts really held the thread together.

Re:Say what you will about the tenets of...

[ajlitt]

Let's not forget, Scrameustache, that citing Godwin, BetterSense, for uh, posting, you know, on Slashdot, that isn't legal either.

Re:Say what you will about the tenets of...

[KingAlanI]

Thanks for improving a perfectly good thread with a Big Lebowski reference.

(BTW, reminded of how on Colbert a couple weeks ago, he used some Lebowski clips to comment on the story of a drunk guy breaking into a mosque and peeing on the prayer rugs)

This just in! New Corning advancement!

[Zemplar]

In other news, Corning has just produced the world's thickest glass. This new glass, dubbed "Sub-Surface", is claimed to be as thick as a Microsoft tablet. Details at 11.

I want one!

[Okonomiyaki]

I was gonna get an iPad but now that someone has vaguely described a competing product I think I'll just hold on to my money for up to 3 years consider buying it instead.

Re:I want one!

[Guidii]

That's a funny comparison. "Surface" is a table-top computer, while the iPad is a tablet. It's hard to imagine how this is a "competing" product.

One serious drawback of the Surface is that it's rectangular form factor. The (DIY) surface system that I built has the same issue - you want people to sit around a table and play a game, but the table looks more like a huge box. Shimmy up beside it in a chair, and reach in, because that's as comfortable as it gets.

Its research!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know why so many people expect something from Microsoft Research to reach the retail market at all.
Maybe check out some of their projects and realize that they are trying to advance the field of computing. http://research.microsoft.com
The purpose of their existence isn't to satisfy your material needs.
Stop crying because what someone says doesn't translate into the gadget of the month.

Bleh

[DocZayus]

A BSOD on a tablet as thin as a sheet of glass is still a BSOD.

Microsoft: Making it easier and easier...

[StuartHankins]

...to break Windows.

"Wait for us..."

[QuietLagoon]

"... we are the industry leader."

.
Just more of the usual Microsoft FUD.

yeah! and then it has...

[bl8n8r]

A built in laser pointer! Not the red or green kind, but one of those purple ones that can set a cat on fire if you hold it there long enough. Then it has a built in gyro-tron gps that links to your bing account and shows you a little bouncing paperclip on the screen to help you navigate through city streets, yeah! And it's waterproof too, did we mention that! Yeah, to.. 500 feet! And the battery doubles as a shuriken in case you are ever attacked by ninjas in japan (lookin' at you Steve, baby!). We plan to start shipping in ..uh.. Oh hey! Look! Who let that elephant in here!?

A sheet of glass that runs windows...

[Sinn3d]

I'm so confused now...

Calling Dick Tracy!!

[Anonymous Coward]

If true this would be fulfilling of the wrist phones live video chat in the Dick Tracy comics. now get cracking on my Adam Strange Jetpack!!!

within the next three years..

[1s44c]

Are those the same years as in 'Spam Will Be Solved In 2 Years'?

What's that in _earth_ years?

Contradiction Anyone?

[lloy0076]

  'Surface will become no thicker than a sheet of glass. It's not going to have any cameras or projectors because the cameras will be embedded in the device itself.'

So it does have a camera but it doesn't have a camera...wtf?

So it will cost nothing, right?

[turthalion]

So if they hold true to what Bill Gates said (http://www.esato.com/archive/t.php/t-54833,1.html) back when they were just a software company, this device should cost us nothing.

The other thing is Microsoft's last announcement of something like this (the tablet PC, wasn't it?), turned out to be something you couldn't buy. It was a reference platform and a set of specifications that others could build to.

So I'm not holding my breath that we'll be able to buy one of these.

Will Ballmer be shouting this?

[xactuary]

Glaziers, glaziers, glaziers!

and no more

[systematical]

secure than a sheet of glass either.

Yeah, right, but remember:

[Superken7]

Yeah right, but remember:

just like other "groundbreaking" technologies by microsoft, like Natal, they'll start removing features ...

"oh, no, it won't support more than two fingers for now..." "oh, sorry, it will be a bit thicker" .. "oh sorry, that awesome refresh rate? nope, not this time.." or similar things.

I hope I'm mistaken though =D

You are all missing the point.

[Nyder]

MS isn't working on this. They are claiming they are.

Why?

To get some startup, full of bright people, to actually build one first, so they can then buy them out, and sell the product.

Please, MS doesn't make anything, they pretend to.

They do though, buy out startups and stuff.

Extreme vaporware announcement

[Futurepower(R)]

"But how many Libraries will it hold?"

It will hold any amount of libraries you can imagine, because it is an imaginary product.

Quote from the article: "Microsoft will deliver a touchscreen PC that is 'no thicker than a sheet of glass' within the next three years, according to the company's principal researcher."

In the next 3 years? Do you believe that? That's the most extreme vaporware announcement I've ever seen.

A prediction that considers the physics: If you drop it, it will shatter, because the bending forces will be extreme, and something thin cannot counteract those forces.

Re:Extreme vaporware announcement

[dwinks616]

Go get a 1/4" sheet of hardened steel, cut it to a 16x9 ratio of any diagonal size you want, 10-14" would be a good size. Drop said sheet of steel on the floor. Make sure this isn't a nice floor, because it is going to leave a mark. Notice it didn't break? "Thick as a sheet of glass" doesn't imply "fragile as a sheet of glass".

Re:Extreme vaporware announcement

[dissy]

A prediction that considers the physics: If you drop it, it will shatter, because the bending forces will be extreme, and something thin cannot counteract those forces.

Funny, I have plenty of laptops, displays, and even a tablet that all have screens that are the thickness of a piece of glass.
They are still quite useful, and I would assume one would use the same common sense to not drop them if at all possible as you would with this tablet.

Sure I know my devices don't have the same product in them, screen only instead of screen plus camera.
But they are the same size of device.

Even the laptops you might own have screens in them that are only the thickness of a sheet of glass!
Or do you not buy LCDs and laptops and flat panel TVs because if you drop them they will shatter?

How thick is the surface?

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFuckingS:

According to Microsoft's Bill Buxton, 'Surface will become no thicker than a sheet of glass . . .

Can someone please inform Mr. Buxton that the surface is only two dimensional?

For fuck's sake, the surface of my old CRT was no thicker than a sheet of glass either.

Is that...

[Lorem_Ipsum]

plate, bullet-proof, automobile or stained?

Easy

[SuperKendall]

How can you preview the scan

You look at the document before you put it on the screen.

Pretty soon

[Anonymous Coward]

We'll have them mandatory in every home waking us up to stretch, hear the national anthem, and do jumping jacks.

All True

[Coward Anonymous]

And it'll be made by Apple.

Re:All True

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Apple have the ergonomic sense not to make a device that is four millimetres thick. Talk about uncomfortable.
 

It is glass, however.

[Futurepower(R)]

A tablet computer is partly a sheet of glass, the touchscreen display. If the entire tablet computer is no thicker than a glass sheet, it will be difficult or impossible to design in such a way that it can resist bending forces.

Re:It is glass, however.

[psbrogna]

Hey, physics geeks! "Sheet of glass" is not an appropriate unit of measurement to use in a conversation about the forces exerted & effects on an object when dropped, especially when, as already mentioned the material(s) are unspecified. Never mind of course that its marketing speak about a hypothetical object in the distant future (distant in the context of the applicable industry).

Isn't that Physics 101; using and being clear on units of measurement and the standards on which they're based?

Re:It is glass, however.

[halltk1983]

Lexan.

Re:It is glass, however.

[h4rm0ny]

Here's a practical test for you then. Go punch a car windscreen and see how many bones you have left in your hand thereafter. That's something that is entirely glass (if you ignore the heating wires) and it's pretty tough. The GP's point stands: Even if the thing were 1/4", that wouldn't necessarily mean it were fragile.

I was in a submarine earlier this year...

[roc97007]

...saw a sheet of glass four inches thick. So, yeah.

Don't tell me, let me guess

[Locke2005]

They're calling it a telescreen?

I think this technology will be really popular in the Lower Merion School District!

that's all fine and dandy, but. . .

[jafac]

. . . how many Libraries of Congress can it store?

And the power cord?

[Anonymous Coward]

And the power cord will be as long as a piece of string!

WOW!

Software, not hardware needs help

[taradfong]

Microsoft's problem is with software more than hardware. The Windows phones may not have been as slick as an iPhone, but the hardware sufficed in terms of durability, phone quality and screen. What did not suffice was/is the software, and I believe that is why Apple walked away with the smart phone market despite Microsoft's much earlier presence. Microsoft has existed in an environment for 30+ years in which poor or barely-passable software could lead to tremendous success. Those days are THANKFULLY over. Do they realize this? Or, just as Ringo Star claimed to be the world's best drummer (by association to the worlds most prevalent band) do Microsoft managers walk around confidently trumpeting that Windows is the greatest OS in the world?

Thin makes it difficult to design a frame.

[Futurepower(R)]

You seem not to understand the problem. The problem is that in a very thin device including glass, it will be difficult to design a frame that resists bending enough to prevent breaking the glass.

Also, thin-ness less than perhaps 1/2 inch is a quality that is artificially desirable. Extremely thin designs are only good for people who want to intimidate other people with their "superior" equipment.

Of course, if a fragile device is handled gently enough, it won't break. Thin tablets will require more gentle handling. For those who understand they may have accidents, too thin is very unattractive.

Re:Thin makes it difficult to design a frame.

[dissy]

You seem to assume that the whole device will be as thin as glass, instead of just the display as stated.

It can't be that hard since the problem was solved 20 years ago.

My laptop has a screen as thin as glass. The frame around it is pretty beefy and supports it fine.
My 1999 fujitsu tablet also has a screen as thin as glass, surrounded to the rest of the device.

If they claimed the entire tablet was as thin as glass, you would have a point. But they don't.

Also any laptop or tablet on the market for the last 20 years, excluding the rugged ones, can't be dropped from and decent height either. People manage to take care of them just fine. These new tablets with glass thin screens will be no different than the old tablets with glass thin screens as far as that goes. Except with the new camera(s) built into the display.

APPLE's INVENTION ...

[Anonymous Coward]

APPLE patented that a LONG TIME AGO !!!