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Looking Back At OS X's Origins

DJRumpy writes "Macworld Weekly has an interesting look at the history of OS X from its early origins in 1985 under NeXT and the Mach Kernel to Rhapsody, to its current iteration as OS X. An interesting, quick read if anyone is curious about the timeline from Apple's shaky '90s to their current position in the market. There's also an interesting link at the bottom talking about the difference between the original beta and the release product that we see today."

312 comments

  1. ars technica on os x by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:ars technica on os x by camperslo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Other links might be of interest to the /. crowd too, like info on the hack that allowed Darwin or OS X (up to 10.4.x IIRC) to run on some older (PPC) hardware that didn't support it. It was an open-source utility called XPostFacto With an Ultra-160 SCSI or ATA interface card for acceptable disk performance, an old 9600 worked surprisingly well. Having 12 RAM slots, a 9600 could hold up to 1.5 gig of RAM, which is pretty decent for something made in the 90s.

    2. Re:ars technica on os x by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Question: I've always been a windows guy, so needless to say I know jack and squat about macs. Recently I was given an apple G3 B&W (I think y'all called them the blueberry) with 400MHz PPC and 3 128Mb RAM sticks along with a couple of hard drives and OSX Tiger installed. My question is this: Are these PPC machines worth sinking any money into as far as upgrades, or are they just old junk like Winboxes? According to her (I haven't fired it up yet as I need a PS/2 to USB adapter for my KVM) it ran Tiger just swell. So I was wondering if it was worth picking up some bigger RAM sticks or one of those G4 PPC upgrades, which I've found is around $100.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:ars technica on os x by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I got caught up in the upgrade thing here recently.

      I recently lost my old iPod Shuffle....decided to upgrade to the new nano for the gym.

      I have my itunes on a G5 mac tower. I plug in the new Nano...says it needs iTunes 10.

      No problem..I download iTunes 10...try to installs...says it requires OSX 1.5 or higher?!?!

      I have 10.4 on it....the lastest Snow Leopard is intel CPU only....and I can't seem to find a copy anywhere really to buy of 10.5.

      I see a few on ebay..but having to wait weeks for auction to finish, and hell, they're wanting over $200+ for a used copy of an older OS??

      Hm...trying to find a friend with 10.5 to borrow...till I can find a reasonably priced real copy...if not, I guess I'm returning the Nano.

      I'm a bit hesitant to use anything I found on USENET...figuring someone could slip something into that and just bork the setup I currently have.

      Just kinda blows that I can't play with my new 'toy'...getting caught up with the PPC to intel switch...and I don't wanna buy a new fscking computer just to use an mp3 player.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:ars technica on os x by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      I had a G4 cube running OS X up until about a year ago, and I still have a G4 tower in use. I've also used a G3 desktop machine running iTunes as a music server. The older machines work pretty well for things like simple word processing and web browsing (but don't expect to run video at any reasonable frame rate). Not something that you'd likely to have patience to use as your primary computer, but usable. Maxxing out the RAM is essential (and pretty cheap) if you want to run OS X.

    5. Re:ars technica on os x by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      You might be able to get $100 bucks for it on eBay but shipping will eat in to it. While an interesting looking case, it's limited in hard drive space and is kinda' bulky. Mac sata cards are kinda' expensive too. At best, I'd throw NetBSD on it and use it as a basic file/print server.

      I'm a Mac user with stuff in storage all the way back to a 512k Mac that boots from a minix floppy, as well as a 1.25Ghz G4 tower that I'm trying to figure out what to do with.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    6. Re:ars technica on os x by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      If you want some aspect of the PPC OS/software, keep it.
      My tip if you want to play with OS X get anything intel.
      Always donate the PPC or put an intel motherboard in it.
      eg http://www.maclife.com/forums/topic/114762/1

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    7. Re:ars technica on os x by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Recently I was given an apple G3 B&W (I think y'all called them the blueberry) with 400MHz PPC and 3 128Mb RAM sticks along with a couple of hard drives and OSX Tiger installed. My question is this: Are these PPC machines worth sinking any money into as far as upgrades, or are they just old junk like Winboxes?

      No Mac without a G5 or better processor in it will run OS X well. A dual G4 will just run it tolerably. A G3 is dismally bad.

      According to her (I haven't fired it up yet as I need a PS/2 to USB adapter for my KVM) it ran Tiger just swell. So I was wondering if it was worth picking up some bigger RAM sticks or one of those G4 PPC upgrades, which I've found is around $100.

      It will run Tiger about as well as a Pentium (yes, the original) class machine runs XP. My advice is to spend your $100 elsewhere.

    8. Re:ars technica on os x by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

      I respectfully disagree with the above poster, have personally used tiger on 400,450 and two 600MHz G3s in the past year no problems. The trick (as other posters have suggested) is to have at least 512MB of RAM and also upgrade the hard drive to something faster. That'll solve your performance bottlenecks but at the end of the day you are not going to be able to use flash (it is available but slow as a dog) on it and some script heavy web sites. You'll be able to watch DVDs fine but not anything in DivX.

      Summary: G3 Macs are fine for everyting except facebook and youtube.

      --
      If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
    9. Re:ars technica on os x by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I figured that dude had to be wrong, because the only reason she gave it away (I got it and a nice 19in CRT on freecycle, which I recommend to everyone as it is a great way to recycle that which you don't need) was she got herself a new Macbook and simply didn't need a desktop anymore. But according to her she was web surfing on it up to a week before she handed it to me, and she had no reason to lie. I gave the 19in to a family member who recent had their monitor buy the farm, and figured since I never got to play with OSX or a non x86 arch I'd kill two birds with this puppy.

      So I'll just do what others have suggested and max her out at 1Gb of RAM and have fun playing with the PPC and Tiger. it doesn't matter to me if it is the latest and greatest as long as I can surf with it and play around with OSX I figure it'll be fun to have on the KVM. Thanks to all those that gave me advice on this new toy, as I've strictly been a windows (and BeOS and OS/2) guy and never took a walk on the other side of the aisle. Thanks!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  2. ObGrammar flame: it's/its by hessian · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    from the i-fail-at-history dept.

    Don't also fail at English:

    Macworld Weekly has an interesting look at the history of OS X from it's early origins in 1985

    Its = belonging to It

    It's = contraction for "it is"

    Knowing these rules can save your life!!1!

    1. Re:ObGrammar flame: it's/its by boarder8925 · · Score: 1
      Strong Bad said it best:

      Oh, If you want it to be possessive, it's just I-T-S. But if it's supposed to be a contraction then it's I-T-apostrophe-S. Scalawag.

    2. Re:ObGrammar flame: it's/its by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      "Knowing these rules can save your life!!1!" Oh, really? I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which knowing these rules might save my life. Hmmmm. Alright, maybe if an army of zombies were attacking, and some of those zombies happened to be grammar nazis before they became zombies, then, just maybe - uhhh - Help me out here, alright? It's just to lame for me to do it all by myself!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    3. Re:ObGrammar flame: it's/its by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      That's "too lame", and even now the Hounds of Grammardalos are moving through many angled space, coordinating on your upcoming position in the 6-dimensional Calabi Yau manifold that underlies real space-time. Your extraction into one of the many trillions of quintic grammar-spaces itself will (theoretically) be painless, but then you will (gasp!) see them in their partly rugose, partly squamous glory. Knowing these rules could have saved your life, your sanity, and your (soon to be topologically inverted and transmuted to Bismuth) spleen, but it's already too late now.

      (By the way, the standardised UK English spell-checker does not recognise "rugose", even under the variant "rugous", but actually did accept squamous. That's progress of a sort for you - we'll get it to accept "eldritch" yet.)

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    4. Re:ObGrammar flame: it's/its by boarder8925 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like Typing of the Dead to me.

    5. Re:ObGrammar flame: it's/its by hessian · · Score: 1

      Umm... has the meaning of the "!!1!" meme been forgotten so soon? I guess it has been 25 years or so since its inception.

  3. I was promised Interesting by 0racle · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This article is no such thing, I demand my money back.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  4. our motto... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Apple Computer -- proudly going out of business since 1977!"

    1. Re:our motto... by Lev13than · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Apple in the early 90s was a terrible company with shitty, slow, bug-ridden products (maybe I'm biased - I owned a Performa 5200) and terrible customer service. It certainly didn't help that their share price was less than a loaf bread.

      To understand how they got from 1996 to where they are today you need to remember that, flow of funds aside, it was actually NeXT that acquired Apple. Apple didn't pick up an operating system - NeXT acquired a hardware distribution channel.

      --
      When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
    2. Re:our motto... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      And the NeXT team then shitcanned the clowns at Apple who had squandered millions developing their 'Next Generation Operating System.'

      Some of us were around to remember the days when the only thing interesting coming out of Apple was slurs against Carl Sagan.

    3. Re:our motto... by sv_libertarian · · Score: 1

      I never thought I'd see the day when their stock was worth so much more than Microsoft's, and that they had ubiquitous products in huge demand by the consumer public.

    4. Re:our motto... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      "Apple Computer -- proudly going out of business since 1977!"

      Well, to be fair, they do seem to have gotten out of the personal computer business in favor of consumer electronics. If you're a shareholder, that's good. If you're a fan of the Macintosh and personal computing, not so good.

      What was their last new computer design that was successful? The iMac from 1998. Everything else since then has been cosmetic. The Macbook Air isn't even a blip on netbook sales.

      Is Apple even talking about doing something with OSX besides releasing new service packs with feline names?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:our motto... by Creepy · · Score: 1

      The Performa line was generally substandard - they were marketed to the masses at a cheap price. I owned a $3000 PowerPC 7500 and it was leaps and bounds faster than my mom's $1500 Performa bought months later. That machine lasted me 8 years (with processor upgrades and a 3dfx glide card, the latter of which was purchased for me [my first real job was writing GLIDE code]).

      I replaced that with a B&W G3, but haven't purchased a mac since - I tried to have the 7500 repaired at FirstTech in Minneapolis (a mac specialist) and they charged me $100 for diagnostic and told me the mobo was for sure blown and that would be $800, and the power supply may be bad as well and that would be $500 to repair (parts and labor). I instantly got "this is shady" vibes, as I was 99% certain it was just the power supply. The internet was fledgling at that point, but I found the part I thought was failing (the power supply) for $50 new and found the mobo for $150 (didn't need it) and repaired it myself in 30 minutes (they wanted 2 hours of labor). FirstTech prices were marked up 300% for mobo and 400% for power supply over that (keep in mind that the power supply in both cases was APPLE manufactured). I have never used a PC repair person since and recommended people avoid FirstTech for repairs at that time (haven't been in the store in years - once bitten, twice shy).

    6. Re:our motto... by Kitkoan · · Score: 0

      To understand how they got from 1996 to where they are today you need to remember that, flow of funds aside, it was actually NeXT that acquired Apple. Apple didn't pick up an operating system - NeXT acquired a hardware distribution channel.

      To understand how Apple got from 1996 to today isn't because of NeXT (OSX was their first OS to use it, in 2001, 5 years after 1996). Apple got to today because of Microsoft. In the middle of 1997, Apple and Microsoft finished an agreement. Microsoft bought $150 million worth of non-voting shares in Apple, agreed to make and update Microsoft Office for Mac (a big deal at the time), as well as cross-licensing of existing patents. All this from Microsoft allowed Apple the ability to bring itself out of the red and be still alive for when they finally released OSX in 2001. All the things that are involved with NeXT didn't happen until 2001 so declaring that Apple's entire road to recovery was because of NeXT isn't correct because they wouldn't have lived long enough to utilize any of that technology.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    7. Re:our motto... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also had a performa 5215 and it was kinda slow compared to the pentiums of the day but it still works and is currently being used as my young child's play toy. He loves how it uses voice recognition for telling knock knock jokes. None of my friends Pc's did video chat, text to speak or faxing/answering machine service until years later

    8. Re:our motto... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (maybe I'm biased - I owned a Performa 5200)

      Yep, I think this entire LC PDS Power Mac line sucked:
      http://lowendmac.com/tech/x200.shtml
      Why Apple didn't just run the PowerPC 603(e) in 32-bit mode I didn't know. Or at least arrange it better.

    9. Re:our motto... by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ah this again.

      Apple had over a billion in the bank when Microsoft paid them off.

      Paid them off because Microsoft and Intel were caught stealing Quicktime code. Shortly afterwards Apple was able to spend billions they didn't have while not touching their balance, somehow. Then Microsoft publicly paid them the $150 million. Apple was not that close to dead, at that point. It's made for some great stories though.

      The (annotated) story, if you're actually interested.

    10. Re:our motto... by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

      Ah this again.

      Apple had over a billion in the bank when Microsoft paid them off.

      Wow, how did Steve Jobs miss that after all these years?

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    11. Re:our motto... by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      "Apple Computer -- proudly going out of business since 1977!"

      Well, to be fair, they do seem to have gotten out of the personal computer business in favor of consumer electronics.

      Every 23rd PC sold world wide last quarter, and clearly in the top ten of computer makers - imagine if they hadn't gone out of the computer business...

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    12. Re:our motto... by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh, he didn't. The company was close to bankruptcy when he took the reigns, and much of this happened after the announcement that Microsoft would put in $150 million. They also paid a farther, undisclosed sum which had quite a bit to do with legal battles, both patent infringement and stolen code.

      Despite losing $850 million the year before, over a billion dollars in 1997--of which around 600 million was related to buying NeXT, and suffering a billion dollar drop in revenues between 1997-1998, Apple mysteriously managed to maintain its investments and actually accumulated cash.

      It wasn't until 1998 that Apple began selling off its shares in ARM, and those sales took place over several years. Prior to that, how did Apple manage to spend nearly two billion dollars more than it earned across two years, lose 14% of its income, and still manage to sit on the same $1.2 billion in cash without pawning anything?

    13. Re:our motto... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Every 23rd PC sold world wide last quarter,and clearly in the top ten of computer makers - imagine if they hadn't gone out of the computer business...

      Exactly my point. Imagine where they'd be if they hadn't gone out of the computer business. This is Apple Computers, not some 8th-rate computer manufacturer. Being "in the top ten computer manufacturers" is not exactly saying a lot, considering the number of computer manufacturers.

      1/23rd of the market. For Apple Friggin' Computers. That is not something to crow about, CheerfulMacFanboy. This is the company that revolutionized personal computing with the Macintosh. And despite their great success, they've managed to carve out 1/23rd of the personal computer sales.

      Here we are in 2010 and Apple Computers is synonymous with walled gardens, dropped calls and no USB ports on their handhelds. Batteries that cannot be changed without voiding the warranty. Planned obsolescence only 1 year out. Apps that have to be "curated" by Apple.

      Do you remember Hypercard? The notion of being able to create your own apps on your own computer was central to their philosophy. Roll your own. Do it yourself. Experiment, Innovate, Explore and CREATE! Now, it's "Watch the Pretty Advertisement!" and "You're Holding It Wrong".

      Yes, I'm pissed, even though Apple stock helped me put my kid through college. I was relying on Apple to prevent personal computing from becoming cable fucking television. I bought a fucking Newton for god's sake. And it's progeny became the iPad. Seriously, it's embarrassing unless your only goal is to make shitloads of money. For that, Apple is wonderful. For computing, they are poison.

      You (and Apple) ought to hang your heads in shame. In fact, I forbid you from ever speaking to me again. (*storms off*)

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:our motto... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      To understand how they got from 1996 to where they are today you need to remember that, flow of funds aside, it was actually NeXT that acquired Apple. Apple didn't pick up an operating system - NeXT acquired a hardware distribution channel.

      Apple got where they are today because of the iPod. Without that, their main product would still be overpriced, underspecced PCs for niche applications.

    15. Re:our motto... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      All this from Microsoft allowed Apple the ability to bring itself out of the red and be still alive for when they finally released OSX in 2001.

      Er, no. Apple were several billion in the black when Microsoft made their little investment.

    16. Re:our motto... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      I was relying on Apple to prevent personal computing from becoming cable fucking television.

      The mind boggles as to why. Apple have been trying to perfect the computing *appliance* for over two and a half decades. All of this:

      Here we are in 2010 and Apple Computers is synonymous with walled gardens, dropped calls and no USB ports on their handhelds. Batteries that cannot be changed without voiding the warranty. Planned obsolescence only 1 year out. Apps that have to be "curated" by Apple.

      Is exactly the same strategy they've been pursuing since they released the first Mac, way back in 1984.

    17. Re:our motto... by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      To be fair, Sagan was being quite the asshat himself. The whole "Butt-Head Astronomer" hullabaloo didn't come about until Sagan sued Apple after the Macintosh rumor mill leaked that Apple was using "Sagan" as an internal codename (Not an actual product name, not a marketing or advertising campaign that would have capitalized on his name, image, or reputation.) for an upcoming product.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    18. Re:our motto... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow. if you're serious, i'm amazed you care so much. the computers are decent computers, for one fuck of a lot of money, with a nice commerically-polished unix-based system running underneath and a new window server. they're also making money on them and seem happy enough. so what if they've also decided to go running after the ipod, iphone and ipad market? they don't owe you anything except the dividends on your shares, and if you get money from that, why do you care so much? it's a company making attractive, albeit expensive, equipment, not a religion.

      (yeah the traditional proviso: typed from a macbook pro, a second macbook pro sitting at home, listening to an ipod (classic in the unlikely event that anyone gives a fuck), just bought a 'magic' trackpad for an absurd amount of money and extremely happy with it, so far as being happy with a glorified mouse can go. i like apple stuff. but they don't owe me anything and nor do they owe anyone anything, and some of their business practices are horrific.)

      if you're not serious, feel free to laugh at me. :)

    19. Re:our motto... by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Sure helps that Microsoft has been, well, slumping on their own. They learned a lesson with Vista, and perhaps another with Kin. It's not as if they're going away or anything, but some markets are driven largely by "cool product"... and these seem to the the places Apple's seeing success. That's questionably sustainable, but they've also been fairly good at converting "cool product" to "useful product". Certainly with the original iPod (first legal music, then video, then it became a PDA) and the iPhone. iPad remains largely a toy for most, but we'll see.

      Microsoft, meanwhile, seems to be floundering at doing most anything that's outside of their PC-centric world. And it's not for bad products: the Zune HD is a nice PMP. But maybe lack of innovation coupled with lack of understanding. Just copying the iPod and being Microsoft doesn't make anyone think you have the right idea. And Kin ... that was such an obvious train wreck, I'm amazed no one told the bosses at Microsoft. And yet, they did have some good ideas buried in there, but most of those were PC-centric, in an era when smartphones are actually smart (Kin cost as much per month as a smartphone, it just wasn't smart) and increasingly run just fine never docking with a PC.

      Tablets are another areas of interest, and Apple is the first company to have a big seller of a non-PC tablet. But the PC tablets never sold well -- they were like the old-skool "tiny laptops", very expensive and very low-end for the money. Even a new crop of netbook-based tablets are going to have some trouble, at least if Windows is your OS answer? Why?

      Simple... it's the "SE" factor. When you get a cheap software app, you can probably chose between the lesser known offerings, or the "SE" versions of well known apps. And some of those are just dandy, for a little while. But before long, you wonder why your can only load four video tracks on that video editor, or whatever. Get the lesser known thing, and they may not have the features of the $1000 competition, but they have no incentive for artificial limits, either. But also no upgrade path. The netbook and any other netbook-level Windows machine is the "SE PC"... it's so scaled down, versus the de-facto world of Windows, everything is going to seem slow and limited on it. But you can also go bigger.

      Meanwhile, while the iPad only runs iPod/iPhone apps (a few slightly improved for the iPad screen), you have the bad-ass of the iPod/iPhone family there.... bigger and slightly faster than other Apple devices. So it seems better... the software you run is much better suited to it, even if you can't get some kinds of software at all, and the kinds you can get are otherwise limited.

      Apple still fails in that iPad and iPhone still need PC docking for full functionality... Android has fixed that for the rest of us. But they've definitely moved past the "one size fits all" approach Microsoft has taken, so far. Maybe the new Windows 7 Phone is a fix -- rather than Windows API on a phone, they're seemingly leveraging their web tech for that. Palm's WebOS did this very successfully (tech-wise... business-wise, it was a bit late for Palm to continue as-was), so who knows. But again... where's Microsoft doing something first, versus just fitting someone else's good idea into a MS-shaped template?

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    20. Re:our motto... by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Yup.. Hypercard was really kind of cool. But that was a completely different Apple, before Steve Jobs got so paranoid. Now, don't get me wrong -- paranoia has been a great business model for many different businesses, and it's hard to claim that the Apple of the 70s and 80s was doing better than the Apple of today. In fact, it might as well be a different company.

      Apple in the 70s was the Apple of Wozniak... the one many of us in the hardware business were inspired by. When I want on to design computers at Commodore for 11.5 years, I took along the lessons of the Apple ][. I'm sure I'm not alone -- that was the Apple everyone liked. You didn't need the Macfaithful or iPhonies to show up and defend Apple at every turn of the corporate policy. There were a fundamental good.

      The Apple of the early Macintosh was different. That was the Apple of cool software. Their hardware SUCKED, unlike the Apple ][ days, but their software had all kinds of cool, at least at the top layer. And by then, most users weren't well versed in hardware design, so they didn't understand how crufty the early Macs were. It wasn't my kind of revolution as a hardware guy (I was designing Amiga systems in that era, doing hardware correctly, so I didn't really care all that much how crappy Apple's hardware was), but they did usher in the GUI revolution. Theirs was slow, but they had quite a few very advanced ideas.

      Today, it's the Apple of the closed Appliance. That's not a surprise to long-time Apple followers -- Jobs always claimed the personal computer ought to be an appliance. It's just that, before the various technologies of today, it wasn't practical. Now it is, and Jobs is running with it. That's find for some people, but the Computing Appliance idea is the polar opposite of what many of us at the start of personal computing believed our work to be. The Amiga, for example, was our best shot at enabling creativity in its users. This was a machine on which to create new things, perhaps as much as any new platform had been. Mac moved the publishing house to the desktop -- we wanted to move the production studio there too.

      The Appliance is about viewing things, not creating things. And they go the extra mile to ensure you can't use it as a creative tool. No real multitasking, no keyboard models, finger-input-only, etc. They've optimized the consumption device, but killed it for useful creation. And so, no big surprise there's nothing like Hypercard.

      But you can't keep that idea down. Check out Google's answer: App Inventor. Whether or not App Inventor really emerges as a Hypercard for the new era or not (or something even better), it's going to make it dramatically easier for "regular folks": students, teachers, artists, webmasters, etc. to crank out their own apps, reliable apps too, without the need to spend 5 years learning to write great Java or C-code.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    21. Re:our motto... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Check out Google's answer: App Inventor

      I didn't know about App Inventor. Now I've got another reason to get an Android device. I'm just waiting for the right Android wi-fi tablet to open my wallet. I don't need any more data subscriptions, since I've got Wi-Fi pretty much everywhere I'd need a connection.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  5. NeXT. Thanks. by kwerle · · Score: 2, Informative
  6. Rhapsody Memories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was in college when Rhapsody RC2 was in existence, I still have a copy or two floating around and the ISO's on my fileserver. Good times, good times.

    1. Re:Rhapsody Memories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      @AnonymousCoward #torrent plz

  7. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The windows File Explorer is the absolute worse thing ever. Column View is the best.

  8. What the article doesn't mention by antifoidulus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is Steves war on color in the Operating System. Every single release of OS X has removed significant amounts of color from the operating system and applications. The latest iTunes is just another example of that, I absolutely hate it because I cannot quickly glance at the icons and figure out which one is which. Maybe it's just a rationalization 20 years later for why Apple didn't adopt color graphics earlier.

    1. Re:What the article doesn't mention by shoehornjob · · Score: 2, Funny

      What the article doesn't mention is Steves war on color in the Operating System

      Maybe that's why he is always wearing those damn black turtlenecks.

      --
      "We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
    2. Re:What the article doesn't mention by drerwk · · Score: 1, Informative

      Maybe it's just a rationalization 20 years later for why Apple didn't adopt color graphics earlier.

      Every Apple I've had, starting with the II+ has had color graphics.

    3. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Steve Jobs was fanatical about WYSIWYG on the Mac. Since there were few color printers available in the 80's, it was common knowledge that Jobs felt that color display violated his WYSIWYG philosophy.

      The good old days when Desktop Publishing was the new technology...

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    4. Re:What the article doesn't mention by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe it's just a rationalization 20 years later for why Apple didn't adopt color graphics earlier.

      Maybe it's just the realization that most software developers do a crappy enough job in black and white that giving them even more freedom to screw up in even more garish ways isn't that great of an idea. Really. You may hate Steve for this, but if it avoids a system looking like Microsoft Windows' Default - Blue Luna, it's worth it.

      --
      That is all.
    5. Re:What the article doesn't mention by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      There is a happy middle there, and I thought Apple had found it. I actually do sort of like the general theme in Snow Leopard, but I absolutely HATE the new iTunes look because they went overboard taking color out of it. Now it's just dull with 0 increase in usability(and don't get me started on how much I hate the new icon).

    6. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Would you rather have your OS X or iTunes look like this? While these colors make the Amiga desktop stand out from the black-and-white Mac or C64 GEOS of the day, it's also extremely garish:

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Amiga_Workbench_1_0.png
      (zoom 300% to recreate the old 14 inch look of Amiga)

      Ick. Well at least it could do preemptive tasking.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:What the article doesn't mention by slapout · · Score: 1

      Steve is just making you realize how important color is by taking it away.

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    8. Re:What the article doesn't mention by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      What about the re-orientation of the close,min, max buttons? WTF do they think this is, Gnome?

      Seriously, It's been close, min, max left to right since the beginning. Why the hell the change now?

    9. Re:What the article doesn't mention by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually for the day it was great.
      It did have color and real multitasking. Back then UIs where very new. IT actually got better over time and you could customize it a lot.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    10. Re:What the article doesn't mention by TheLink · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're just holding it wrong!

      --
    11. Re:What the article doesn't mention by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Once plain look of Workbench got good enough - from the setups I've seen it was almost "you could customize it too much" (yes, "in the eye of the beholder/owner/user, et al." - but I wonder how many people were put off by such creations during random demonstration)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    12. Re:What the article doesn't mention by operagost · · Score: 1

      Then what's with the "lickable" buttons?

      BTW, neither Windows Vista nor 7 look like that.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    13. Re:What the article doesn't mention by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      On the other hand Workbench 2's color scheme is a lot like the current OSX: grey with blue highlights. Maybe that's why I like OSX so much, feel's like home.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    14. Re:What the article doesn't mention by sznupi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I actually would like to see "make everything greyscale" button and keyboard shortcut in taskbar/etc.; too often colors screams at the eyes for no good reason.

      Maybe that's just because of how I usually used C64 - on a small B&W Soviet TV. It actually made things better IMHO; 16 levels of grey looks quite a bit more refined than 16 colors. Hundreds levels of grey does tend to look that way too, when compared with poor choice of colors (there's one moment when Blue Luna looks fine - when it displays OS shutdown menu, which makes rest of the screen greyscale)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    15. Re:What the article doesn't mention by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I think a good bit of it was to keep the cost down.
      Remember that the Mac shipped with only 128k at first.
      No expansion was offered.
      And no that was not a lot of memory in 1984. The Apple III that shipped in 1980 had 128k expandable to 512k
      The Commodore B machine "yes I know it was slightly less successful than the AppleIII" Shipped with 128K
      The Apple IIc which shipped in 1984 also had 128 k.
      So you had 8 bit machines shipping with 128k of ram years before the Mac did.

      The Mac was supposed to be a "cheap" computer for the masses.
      It started off with a 6809e and 64k of ram.

      The Mac shipped with only 128k because 64kb chips where the standard at that time. 64kb*16== 128k. It was at the the time the cheapest memory system you could use.
      When chip size jumped to 256kb you saw the MacPlus at 512K.
      It was all about money.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    16. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Americano · · Score: 1

      Aesthetically, a choice to de-emphasize the "ZOMG LOOKIT I GOTS SCROLLBARS AND TITLE BAR AND ICONZZZZ" in favor of letting the content in your apps themselves take center stage is not *necessarily* a bad thing.

      If the "plumbing" of the OS & the window manager is overshadowing the content in the apps to the point of distracting users, I'd say that toning down the window manager is probably a reasonable decision from a design standpoint. I don't know if there's anything to indicate how the move towards more and more gray-scale in OS X affects usability, but the consistent & muted layout for the window manager helps minimize distractions for me, so I don't mind it so much. Given Apple's focus on usability, I wouldn't be surprised if they had *some* data indicating that this was the case, but I'm not aware of any published studies on this.

      That said, I'm not primarily a mouse-clicker, I like my keyboard tools like Quicksilver for handling many routine tasks and commonly-used apps, so if you asked me which icon was which from my apps folders, I would probably be hard pressed to identify some of them.

    17. Re:What the article doesn't mention by DA-MAN · · Score: 1

      You're just holding it wrong!

      That's what she said!

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    18. Re:What the article doesn't mention by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You may hate Steve for this, but if it avoids a system looking like Microsoft Windows' Default

      What? I hate the OS X look because it reminds me of that. But it is worse, with its scrollbars and progress bars that look like toothpaste, and window buttons so small they make me feel like I'm 82, half blind, and have arthritis trying to click them.

      The user interface achieved perfection with the OS/2, Windows 95 look and feel.

    19. Re:What the article doesn't mention by rvw · · Score: 1

      What about the re-orientation of the close,min, max buttons? WTF do they think this is, Gnome?

      Seriously, It's been close, min, max left to right since the beginning. Why the hell the change now?

      When you press the green +button, iTunes minimizes to the mini player, with that same vertical orientation.

    20. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I don't customize anything. I just use the default of whatever's given to me (except Windows, when I switch to the classic style because it's faster).

      On my Amiga 500 it still has that garish blue-orange look, overlaid with a File Manager that has all the CLI commands down the center and you just click them to issue the command (example copy df0:resume ram:resume). I often don't load Commodore's Workbench at all.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    21. Re:What the article doesn't mention by bonch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Colors in OS X are often muted because of people doing visual work. Many (if not all) of Apple's Pro apps use grayscale window controls and highlights regardless of what the rest of the system is configured to use.

    22. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Since there were few color printers available in the 80's, it was common knowledge that Jobs felt that color display violated his WYSIWYG philosophy.

      Bad philosophy considering many of us were printing color documents using computers like Atari or Amiga or Commodore. The inability to do color on 80s Macs made them look inferior.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Remember that the Mac shipped with only 128k at first.

      That doesn't sound so bad. The first Amiga only had 256k and multitasked programs just fine. Mac only had to run one program at a time, so only needed half the space (IMHO). Also I think you're misremembering how much RAM computers came with. RAM was not exactly cheap back then - I spent $90 for a 512k upgrade in 1989. That was considered a bargain.

      1979 - Atari had 48k
      1980 - AppleII+ had 48k
      1982 - C=64 has 64k
      1983 - Apple IIe had 64k
      1984 - Apple IIc had 128k (same as Thin Mac released same year)
      1984 - Fat Mac with 512k
      1985 - C=128 had 128k
      1985 - Commodore Amiga had 256k

      The Fat Mac with 512k was actually an aberration compared to all the other computers of the time. Also probably why it cost 4-5 times as much.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    24. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My teachers taught me that black and white are not colors, but conditions. White is the presence of all colors in the spectrum, and black is the absence of all the colors. Who knows what teachers are teaching today - I only know that my science teachers insisted that I learn that bit of trivia.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    25. Re:What the article doesn't mention by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Nobody used an Amiga 1000 with just 256k. Everyone bought the memory upgrade to 512k that plugged into the front of the 1000.
      And no the memory specifications and dates for the Apple III and Commodore B are real and factual. Those where not cheap computers but then the Mac sure wasn't cheap.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    26. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Seriously, It's been close, min, max left to right since the beginning. Why the hell the change now?

      Change keeps programmers employed.
      Same way smashing windows keeps glaziers employed
      It doesn't have to serve a purpose.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    27. Re:What the article doesn't mention by david_thornley · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Apple adopted color graphics way early. They weren't on the early Macs.

      One problem was that color monitors of the time were typically bad. I tried using IBM EGA graphics once, and couldn't stand to use the screen longer than about five minutes. I have friends who used their Apple IIs with monochrome monitors.

      Jobs wanted high quality in the Mac displays, and was perfectly willing to sacrifice color to do so.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    28. Re:What the article doesn't mention by nine-times · · Score: 0

      I actually like that OSX has become more and more colorless as time has gone on. In my opinion, the operating system itself should not draw your attention to it. Even the application should not really draw your attention to it. I want to pay attention to my data, and everything else about the UI should be fairly bland and unobtrusive.

      I don't know if it's Steve Jobs driving this, but it would kind of make sense. I seem to recall some quote of his hinting that it was a bad idea to rely too heavily on color to convey important information in a UI. Maybe it wasn't Jobs who said it, but the idea was that colors could be too unclear. Like something turns pink, and you have to distinguish that from red, magenta, purple, or hot-pink. Then you have to know what the color pink indicates. And then the UI designers need to figure out how to create an alternative cue for color-blind people.

    29. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Bertie · · Score: 1

      So what was stopping a colour display from showing the black-and-white documents in black-and-white, thereby keeping everything WYSIWYG, but allowing for colour in places where it was useful?

      For a generally forward-thinking company, Apple are amazingly prone to this kind of stubbornness. I mean, here we are in 2010 and there's STILL no way to change the size of a window apart from the bottom right-hand corner.

    30. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bad philosophy considering many of us were printing color documents using computers like Atari or Amiga or Commodore. The inability to do color on 80s Macs made them look inferior.

      While I agree that the Mac's inability to do color was a sorely missed feature. I don't think I would go so far as call the Mac inferior. I would say that the Mac was targeted toward the "serious" desktop publishing crowd. Especially since there was better publishing software on the Mac. While the Atari ST and the Amiga were targeted toward games.

      I speak as an owner of an Atari ST which I considered an upgrade from my Atari 800. I also worked at a computer store that sold both the Atari ST and the Commodore Amiga.

      I think your assertion about printing color documents during the 80's a slight exaggeration, but only because the technology was primitive. Both the Atari ST and Amiga were most definitely capable, but I wouldn't count color dot-matrix printers or thermal transfer printers of the time something to take too seriously. Of course you could always go to a typesetter, but the prices weren't as economical as today.

      Also I think Apple took IBM more seriously than the assorted home computers and as long as the average office had B/W printing, Jobs felt justified in his thinking.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    31. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse obsession with logical thinking...

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    32. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>I don't think I would go so far as call the Mac inferior.

      I would. And did. The only reason I switched to a Mac was because the better machines (Atari and Amiga) disappeared off the market. The Commodore Amiga could do all the desktop publishing a Mac could do PLUS produce movies (Aladdin) and TV shows (B5, seaquest, space A&B, etc) besides.
      .

      >>>I think Apple took IBM more seriously than the assorted home computers and as long as the average office had B/W printing, Jobs felt justified in his thinking.

      Yeah as it turned-out the PC was the main competitor for all these companies, and it was pretty dull.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Nobody used an Amiga 1000 with just 256k.

      That's simply not true. The Amiga owners ran on 256k from 1985 to 1988. There was no need to expand to a larger size, because the programs were designed to fit inside the available space of the standard machine (just as programs were designed to fit inside a Commodore's 64k space). Not until much later did programs require 1/2 or 1 meg expansion.
      .

      >>>And no the memory specifications and dates for the Apple III and Commodore B are real and factual

      I cited my figures from wikipedia. Where did you get you cites from?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    34. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      defaults write com.apple.iTunes full-window -boolean NO

    35. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      If you wanted a general purpose home computer, I would agree the Atari ST and Amiga were the better value.

      However, Apple sold a complete turnkey solution for desktop publishing. Keep in mind Apple brought desktop publishing to mainstream, since the Mac was specifically built for it. MacPublisher was the first WYSIWYG layout program. Apple also sold a laser printer that was designed with the Macintosh in mind.

      When I think of the three computers, the Amiga was way ahead of its time. Unfortunately, Commodore was Amiga's worst enemy.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    36. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      >>>I don't think I would go so far as call the Mac inferior.

      I would. And did. The only reason I switched to a Mac was because the better machines (Atari and Amiga) disappeared off the market. The Commodore Amiga could do all the desktop publishing a Mac could do

      In the sense that it could do it, sure. In the sense that it could do it as well, with as well developed an ecosystem for DTP? Not so much. Despite all the noise from Atari and Amiga advocates (and I used to be one!), the Mac really was flatly superior for DTP.

      The Amiga was especially poorly suited to it, due to horrible support for high resolution high refresh rate monochrome monitors. Yes, monochrome. There was quite a long time during the late 80s / early 90s when high res high refresh color was prohibitively expensive, and therefore the popular choice for serious DTP was a 21" mono CRT running at 1280x960, which made it practical to view 2 pages side by side in a WSIWYG DTP program. (Also, a lot of the demand for the quick turnaround time of DTP came out of newspapers, in an era where 90% of newsprint was B&W, so there wasn't a lot of demand for color in early DTP.)

      The Amiga's built-in video hardware was built around NTSC/PAL format video signals (ie TV resolution) and thus fundamentally couldn't handle high resolution office/DTP productivity video formats. That wouldn't have been too much of a problem if it weren't for the fact that the Amiga's OS was a thin, rudimentary layer that most application developers bypassed to hit the hardware directly, creating a massive problem where lots of software didn't work right (or at all) with 3rd party video cards. By contrast, Apple's hardware/software ecosystem had very few problems with running on any video card, especially once it got past the first 2 or 3 years (when there weren't any options other than the tiny all-in-1 Macs).

      Even Atari's ST series had better support for a 21" two page display, once they released the Mega ST line, and as a result of that and better support work in the OS, Atari had more luck in the DTP market than Amiga. But it's kind of telling when Atari, king of barely supporting their OS at all, did a better job of supporting 3rd party DTP companies than Commodore did.

      PLUS produce movies (Aladdin) and TV shows (B5, seaquest, space A&B, etc) besides.

      Remember that NTSC-based video system? Yeah, that'd be why companies interested in doing video work on personal computers chose Amiga early on. Not only did it have a sophisticated (for 1985) video system, a lot of the signals were (IIRC) available at the expansion slot, meaning that the guys who did the Video Toaster could hook into it and do lots of neat tricks.

      But as is often the case, being first only gets you so far, and Commodore's mismanagement of both software and hardware development torpedoed any chance the early success in that niche would continue.

      Really, so much of it came down to software. Apple didn't do a perfect job with the Mac System (as it was called then) in the early 80s, in part due to the severe memory limits of the original Mac, but they did so much more than Atari or Commodore that it was inevitable they would win. They had a home-grown OS which could grow with the hardware, and provided good and compelling abstractions for 3rd party software developers to use when writing Macintosh applications. This meant that most Mac application software didn't try to bang the hardware, and could easily migrate to newer and more capable Macs and Mac operating systems. Atari and Commodore just sort of threw together operating systems from other parties' IP (Atari more so than Commodore) and never gave their operating systems enough TLC to compete with what Apple was doing.

    37. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>>Nobody used an Amiga 1000 with just 256k.

      That's simply not true. The Amiga owners ran on 256k from 1985 to 1988. There was no need to expand to a larger size, because the programs were designed to fit inside the available space of the standard machine (just as programs were designed to fit inside a Commodore's 64k space). Not until much later did programs require 1/2 or 1 meg expansion.

      I wasn't an Amiga user but I remember very well that any guide talking about what you'd want to get if you bought an Amiga mentioned the RAM expansion as a near-requirement for making the A1000 useful. Especially early on, because IIRC they didn't have the OS in ROM at first (too many bugs so they held off on making mask ROMs for a year or so), meaning that a huge chunk of the 256K was eaten by the part of the OS which was intended to execute from ROM.

    38. Re:What the article doesn't mention by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > However, Apple sold a complete turnkey solution for desktop publishing.

      And Atari sold the first laser printer to retail for under $1000.

      They had the interesting idea of making it a sort of "win printer" when hardware was scarce enough that you could say that such a thing actually made a little sense.

      The fact that a platform that thought it color ignore could get anywhere in publishing is terribly funny.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    39. Re:What the article doesn't mention by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Did you have an Amgia 1000?
      I bought one of the first. It had both Workbench and Kickstart 1.0 and 1.1
      Everybody that bought an 1000 bought the 256k ram expansion. Most software wouldn't even run without it.
      I also had a StarBoard II that I eventually bought as well as an Amiga 2000 that I upgraded to.
      I also wrote the TDI modula 2 Rexx bindings.
      A patch to fix the zero location memory problem caused by the 2091 hd controller.
      And an early Virus checker called TCell for the Amiga.

      Look up the specks on the Apple III and the Commodore B on wikipedia. Both came with 128k of ram standard before the Mac shipped.
      Also I was around then and actually got to use one of the early Bs and even one of the illegal prototype Ps.

      Sorry dude I was there. The Macs memory was a huge handy cap. Hacks to boost it came fast.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    40. Re:What the article doesn't mention by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually no it didn't.
      The Amiga 1000 had what was called the Kickstart RAM which was really cool.
      It replaced the ROM that wasn't yet ready and you loaded the kickstart ram with your kickstart disk.
      It would survive a reboot as well.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    41. Re:What the article doesn't mention by tautog · · Score: 1

      What?

      But it is worse, with its scrollbars and progress bars that look like toothpaste, and window buttons so small they make me feel like I'm 82, half blind, and have arthritis trying to click them.

      Judging by your UID, you ARE 82, half blind and have arthritis... :-P

    42. Re:What the article doesn't mention by mattack2 · · Score: 1
    43. Re:What the article doesn't mention by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      So what was stopping a colour display from showing the black-and-white documents in black-and-white, thereby keeping everything WYSIWYG, but allowing for colour in places where it was useful?

      While at a hardware level this wasn't done(*), at a software level, it indeed was done. There are 8 colors defined in original Quickdraw.

      (*) Someone made a card that plugged into (some?) B&W Macs that showed the Quickdraw colors. I remember seeing it demoed, I think on Computer Chronicles. I can't find it in a quick search on archive.org.

    44. Re:What the article doesn't mention by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      > However, Apple sold a complete turnkey solution for desktop publishing.

      And Atari sold the first laser printer to retail for under $1000.

      And the Mega STs you had to buy to use them had same 68000 CPU as the 2 year older Apple LaserWriter - just at 2/3 the clock speed. And you couldn't do anything with your ST while you printed.

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    45. Re:What the article doesn't mention by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I don't think I would go so far as call the Mac inferior.

      Neither did he, and i'd certainly agree it did make them look inferior.

      I would say that the Mac was targeted toward the "serious" desktop publishing crowd.

      As opposed to the "jocular" desktop publishing crowd?

    46. Re:What the article doesn't mention by takev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Their first Beta had lots of colors, their windows has a light blue pin stripe. Then the graphic artists told Apple that all their graphics became off-color, because their eyes compensated against the slight blue tint (our eyes' automatic white balance).

      Ever since then each version removed more color from the themes and from their applications. Personally I think they went overboard with iTunes, but it may also be that they want everyone to adopt the gray icons in a list for other applications as well. Don't forget that Apple applications are often used by programmers as example applications on how to visually design their own. For programmers making application that are used in any way during (not just for) Image and Video editing it is wise to reduce the amount of colors in their application. Just like most applications shouldn't make any kind of sound when people want to do sound editing.

    47. Re:What the article doesn't mention by bennettp · · Score: 1

      I actually would like to see "make everything greyscale" button and keyboard shortcut in taskbar/etc.; too often colors screams at the eyes for no good reason.

      Another thing: human eyes see more resolution in black and white than they do in colour. DVDs use twice as much data for luma compared to chroma, because it is an effective way to use the bits available.

      In the same way, it makes sense to use black & white for most elements on screen, and only use colour where you want to grab the user's attention.
      An excellent example of this is the "Save/Delete" dialog in Mail.app.

    48. Re:What the article doesn't mention by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I don't think I would go so far as call the Mac inferior.

      An Amiga 2500 (68030@25MHz... not the 68020 version) with an Emplant board (for roms and RS-422 ports) runs Mac OS alongside AmigaDOS faster than it runs on a Macintosh IIci (68030@25MHz) because the Amiga is superior to the Macintosh.

      I would say that the Mac was targeted toward the "serious" desktop publishing crowd. Especially since there was better publishing software on the Mac. While the Atari ST and the Amiga were targeted toward games.

      There are very good DTP programs for Amiga, not so for Atari. The Atari tried to be a real computer but failed and fell back on gaming, with a small following in music since it had built-in MIDI and at the time a MIDI interface was spendy... Except on the Amiga, which has a 31250bps mode on the serial port, and which can therefore do MIDI with basically a level converter. A friend of mine built one once, which is how I know. He also added a Zorro II slot to his Amiga 500 though. He always hoped someone would try to get him to put a toaster on a 500 because he thought he could do it, the video port was just a tap to various systems which exist on both machines.

      I speak as an owner of an Atari ST which I considered an upgrade from my Atari 800. I also worked at a computer store that sold both the Atari ST and the Commodore Amiga.

      The Amiga had legs that the Atari never grew. It was a dramatically more capable machine.

      Also I think Apple took IBM more seriously than the assorted home computers and as long as the average office had B/W printing, Jobs felt justified in his thinking.

      Obviously it worked out for them. Commodore's leadership is however the only reason Macintosh is here today and Amiga isn't. It was far more machine for dramatically less money and if the corporate leadership had been playing for success and not simply personal gain... well, you know the rest.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    49. Re:What the article doesn't mention by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      This is not really a benefit, because the A1000 barely has any onboard memory expansion and the ROM is sizable. Of course it survives a reboot, the only reason the data in your PC's RAM doesn't do the same thing is that it's zeroed before use. And actually, it often isn't zeroed before use (depends on the implementation, and on which memory test you have selected in BIOS) and it is often possible to allocate memory after a reboot and find data from some prior program. The big benefit of this on the Amiga wasn't kickstart RAM so much but the recoverable ramdisk which offered lightning-fast reboots to those who could afford to put the important parts of the OS in RAM. And you needed them, because without memory protection, you were likely to do a lot of spontaneous rebooting.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    50. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>However, Apple sold a complete turnkey solution for desktop publishing.

      Whatever. My church and school district didn't print their newsletters on Macs. They used Commodore 64's and later STs or Amigas. Why? They were cheaper plus they offered additional benefits like gaming (my pastor was an avid gamer) plus music and video manipulation.

      For you to say (or imply) only Macs could do proper desktop publishing is as silly as saying only an Ipod can play music.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    51. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>And you couldn't do anything with your ST while you printed.

      As I recall the Mac had the same flaw (no multitasking). I remember spending a lot of time staring at "zzz" while my school's Mac II ran off my college reports on the LaerWriter or the dot matrix Apple printer.

      It made me yearn for home Amiga which not only had multitasking, but also preemptive tasking (so printing was handled as a separate background program).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    52. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>The Amiga was especially poorly suited to it, due to horrible support for high resolution high refresh rate monochrome monitors. Yes, monochrome.

      I don't know what on earth you're talking about. I used to operate my Amiga in 720x480 mode (with color but boring monochrome was always an option.) 720x480 is higher than the resolution my college's Mac II could do (something like 480x300).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    53. Re:What the article doesn't mention by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Did you have a [Commodore Amiga]?

      Fixed that for you. I owned it when it was just "the Amiga" without a number. Everything ran just fine on 256k, because that was the Amiga's standard size. It was not until after the A500/2000 were released with 512k (i.e. 1988 or later) that software started to grow beyond this limit. Prior to that time 256k was perfectly workable.
      .

      >>>Everybody that bought an 1000 bought the 256k ram expansion

      False.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    54. Re:What the article doesn't mention by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      >>>And you couldn't do anything with your ST while you printed.

      As I recall the Mac had the same flaw (no multitasking). I remember spending a lot of time staring at "zzz" while my school's Mac II ran off my college reports on the LaerWriter or the dot matrix Apple printer.

      It made me yearn for home Amiga which not only had multitasking, but also preemptive tasking (so printing was handled as a separate background program).

      Suuuure. There was not a single printer driver for the Mac that was interupt driven. And the printer drivers for Amiga were written as tasks.

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    55. Re:What the article doesn't mention by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      No did you have an Amiga 1000 is the question.
      And yes vast majority of people that bought one if not everyone bought the 256k expansion.
      Since we are talking about the 1000 that is what matters.
      False as are response is just silly. I guess accurate in that I am sure that someone bought an Amiga 1000 and returned it when they found out that it didn't run Lotus 123 or that it was almost useless without the memory expansion but those are without out a doubt the exception and not the rule.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    56. Re:What the article doesn't mention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They want to reduce colours to seven, so that when they come out with the 40th anniversary edition they can base it on the apple II architecture.

    57. Re:What the article doesn't mention by catmistake · · Score: 1

      DTP? Most commonly, when talking about printing/publishing, that means Direct To Plate... which I don't think was even around until the mid to late 90's... I don't know what you mean by DTP, concerning video...?

    58. Re:What the article doesn't mention by catmistake · · Score: 1

      I actually would like to see "make everything greyscale" button

      Look in System Preferences under Universal Access.

    59. Re:What the article doesn't mention by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Not in most operating systems, I'm afraid...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    60. Re:What the article doesn't mention by sznupi · · Score: 1

      I guess also one of the reasons why, AFAIK, medical displays seem to show usually greyscale (at least 10-bit one at that, IIRC) with only few color highlights; and sometimes in a bit insane resolutions? (I actually thought one of those would be fabulous to have for almost all kinds of work done on a computer; if not for the price...)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  9. flying cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't want to be a whiner, but I don't understand what OS X fans are so lyrical about. OS X still has no option to make my car fly, nor does it allow me to play tennis outside in my iTennisCourt, and swim in my iSwimmingPool. Do OS X fans also go crazy over other office equipment, such as staplers or paperclips?

    1. Re:flying cars by camperslo · · Score: 2, Funny

      You just have to know where to hold down the option key when clicking.

      Find an old Mac SE at a thrift store, hit the debug switch on the side, and type in G 41D89A

      Even if the hard drive is bad, it opens a portal to a parallel universe.

    2. Re:flying cars by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Only if they are red swingline staplers.

    3. Re:flying cars by Kildjean · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked Windows sank a battleship.

      --
      Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
    4. Re:flying cars by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      There's Minesweeper for X11 now, too.

      (please note that I linked to a comp.sources.games shar file from 1992)

    5. Re:flying cars by stokessd · · Score: 1

      Do OS X fans also go crazy over other office equipment, such as staplers or paperclips?

      I can't speak for all OSX fans, but I am very design conscious. A well designed stapler like an older swingline 767 is a thing of beauty over some Chinese crap from office depot. Sure they both staple a few sheets of paper about the same, but the swingline is a much nicer tool to use. I care about how the tools I use feel and work, and to me, it's worth the money to get ones that make me happy to use. Life is too short to use sub-optimal tools.

      Don't get me started on paperclips...

      Sheldon

    6. Re:flying cars by codepunk · · Score: 1

      Back in the day when I used to wrench on cars I only used Snap-On tools. I could have bought craftsman tools for half the price so why didn't I? Snap-On tools are expensive as hell but the quality is just a tad bit better than craftsman. Rounding off a single nut in some hard to get at spot with a craftsman wrench could easily cost me 4-5 hrs hell and lost labor. I no longer wrench on cars but I still make my living with tools, enjoy your craftsman while I make a living with a Mac.

      --


      Got Code?
    7. Re:flying cars by tautog · · Score: 1

      Bah, the Swingline 747 (like Milton's) is much nicer with the rounded shape. I even had a red one at one time, but it disappeared in a move.

    8. Re:flying cars by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I don't want to be a whiner, but I don't understand what OS X fans are so lyrical about. OS X still has no option to make my car fly, nor does it allow me to play tennis outside in my iTennisCourt, and swim in my iSwimmingPool. Do OS X fans also go crazy over other office equipment, such as staplers or paperclips?

      They spent twice as much on a computer then they needed to and all they got was a crappy OS. Its the ultimate in buyers remorse, the best was to cure their own doubts is to convince people to do the same thing they did.

      I've never seen a Dell fanboy attack an Asus user. Cant say the same for Mac fanboys.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:flying cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Mac has a pathetic marketshare, both for the computer itself and the tiny library of software available for it. Oh well, I suppose ignorance truly is bliss for you Fisher-Price, point and drool Macheads.

  10. Blasphemy! by D+Ninja · · Score: 5, Funny

    The REAL history of OS X...

    And on the sixth day, Steve Jobs said, "Let there be OS X" and OS X was created, and it was good.

    That's how it goes, right?

    1. Re:Blasphemy! by noidentity · · Score: 1
      I quoth from my copy of The Book of Apple:

      And on the sixth day, Steve Jobs said, "Let there be White," and the porcelin white was created, and it was good.

    2. Re:Blasphemy! by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      What about the frickin' brushed alumimum?

    3. Re:Blasphemy! by paradoja · · Score: 1

      Made from the rib of white... don't you read the Book?

    4. Re:Blasphemy! by yanyan · · Score: 1

      Actually it was the Xth day...

    5. Re:Blasphemy! by maaleron · · Score: 1

      I think that should read "don't you read the iBook?"

    6. Re:Blasphemy! by noidentity · · Score: 1

      What about the frickin' brushed alumimum?

      RTFM. The Holy Brushed Aluminum is in the New Testamant. White is from the Old Testament.

  11. 90's OS by fermion · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In the 90's, all OS sucked. Networking and the internet made them look old. Mac OS still sucked less because of the way it interacted, and continued to interact, with standard compliant devices. The primary problem was that the motorola chips were becoming dated, which Apple fixed in the Mid 90's with the power PC.

    It is interesting to note that at that time MS also released their first real GUI OS, Windows NT. By 1996 MS has a credible OS, which remain useful until 2000, when XP became a reasonable successor. Like Mac OS 9, however, NT was not that consumer friendly.

    In a world where the web has reached a point where social media consumption and creation is what most people do, neither Mac OS X or Windows 7 will be the solution. As much as pundits want to say that people spend their days typing reports, creating powerpoints, that is not what people to. They post to video blogs and watch videos and text. We will see machines that run Windows 7 for business, and Mac OS X for software development and creative content creation, but the that is going to be an increasing niche market. People will be buying iOS and Android devices, because these are going to let them do stuff for $300. An external keyboard and google docs will let them do anything they need for school. Windows Mobile is not going to do it. We have seen the succor to Mac OS X, and it is iOS.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:90's OS by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Um, actually in the 90s there were some pretty good OSes. Yeah, ME sucked, but Windows NT was actually quite good, plus, the *Nix OSes were still as stable as ever, just not end-user friendly.

      MacOS actually really, really sucked. NT had memory protection, MacOS didn't.

      While NT wasn't exactly a "home" OS, it was used enough to make it pretty common if you knew to get it.

      In the 90s, Mac was way and I mean way behind the curve.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:90's OS by WillAdams · · Score: 3, Informative

      Then what would you say about an OS which:

        - was \textsc{unix}
        - supported the initial versions of http
        - was used to develop a graphical web browser and editor named worldwideweb.app[1]

      NeXTstep, available in 1989

      William

      1 - _Weaving the Web_ by Sir Tim Berners-Lee --- http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/Weaving/Overview.html

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    3. Re:90's OS by BitZtream · · Score: 1, Interesting

      was that the motorola chips were becoming dated, which Apple fixed in the Mid 90's with the power PC.

      ... the PowerPC chips were designed by Motorola, IBM fabbed them and eventually bought out the design when Motorola dumped it ... which also triggered Apple to jump to x86.

      NT before 2000 was hardly a 'useful' OS. It was Windows, but with an extremely limited set of available software since most things that worked in 95 or 3.x that weren't extremely simple wouldn't work right in NT, if at all. It was buggy, crashed often, even without any third party software or drivers. Not that OS 8/9 were better, and even Win2k was an absolutely shitty consumer OS, far more useful as a server than previous versions of NT. Also, XP came out in 2001, not 2000.

      I don't know where OSes are going, but iOS is a fad, this massive 'everything must be on the web' drive will go away, its not the first time its come and gone, even if you don't remember it.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:90's OS by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      I'm firmly in Apple's lap today, and have been using Macs at work and elsewhere for many years, but I couldn't stand the original Mac OS.

      On a technological level, I also think it was far behind the competition in terms of memory protection, cooperative multitasking, etc.

    5. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Late 90s I agree, but the early-mid 90s the Mac was the best in every metric. Windows 95 didn't ship until almost 1996 and it took a few revisions to get it right. Most people only remember Windows 95B and 98 the people that can say they actually used the first version of 95 is a pretty short list.

      The price for WindowsNT was $300. I only got it because I was a university student and the school was giving them to anyone that asked. So it wasn't common at all.

    6. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      MacOS wasn't an OS at all. (Note that MacOS is not Mac OS X. There's a space before "OS" and there's an "X". That makes it different.)

      There was no kernel. Upon boot, the Mac ROM (or its software equivalent as found by the bootloader) would hand off control of the system to "Finder". Finder handled all system tasks, but was a user-accessible application. Extensions (a.k.a. "those puzzle piece things") were in-memory patches to the Finder application.

      There was only a system API. Finder controlled the system through system libraries only. All processes done by "the OS" were actually performed by Finder. Finder had a GUI and the user could screw with it. This is all bad. Other applications used the same system API to handle their tasks as well. This lead to...

      Applications were also the OS. Yes, once an application was active, it was in control of all memory management, so-called "system" functions, and even the multitasking scheduler. An application shared processor time when it wanted to share processor time. If you wrote your app without using WaitNextEvent(), all other apps on the machine would stop, though it made it more difficult to retrieve user input if you did that.

      Basically, MacOS was the equivalent of DOS, but with a GUI. It was long past its prime and was an amazing set of hacks, but it was as unstable as all hell and needed replacement badly. In fact, replacement would've been on a proper schedule had the "Pink" project been finished... in 1989.

    7. Re:90's OS by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      7.1.x through 7.6 just flat out sucked.

      8.0 was better, 8.1 was pretty stable but still memory leaked like a sieve, especially if you were running file sharing on it, I had a G3 tower with AppleShare IP and 8.0-9.1 and it was a pain. It'd run for about 16-18 hours and then I'd have to reboot it because of the memory leak.

      I got a copy of Rhapsody5.6 as soon as I could and slapped that on it, glory to much faster network IO and no more memory leaks.

      I used Windows 95 when it first came out, like a week after launch, a buddy was dual booting that and OS 2 Warp, I stuck with my Mac but Windows was less prone to lock ups than 7.5.x was at the same time.

    8. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I couldn't give the early 90's to the Macs, at all. If you bought a Mac in the 1990's for anything other than some specific application you were a fool being parted from your money. Besides costing 2x (or more, possibly 5x) than an equivalent speed, equivalent feature, equivalent quality PC, Macs were unstable as hell. If you had a program that needed Windows then the instability gap narrowed, but most software ran on rock-solid DOS. And sweet Jebus it took Apple forever to come around to the idea that you need more than a 9 inch black and white screen. But I'm no Mac hater as I am quite happy with my MacBook, though seriously Apple why do I have to use only the bottom right corner to resize my windows. That's a bug, not a feature or style.

      As for Windows 95, lots of people used the first version. If you were on a college campus you used the sneaker network and a stack of floppies to grab betas in '94.

    9. Re:90's OS by operagost · · Score: 1

      Well, the WWW didn't exist in 1989, but OS/2 Warp came with an internet suite (and the web browser was downloadable from the built-in update utility). This was in 1994. Windows still used the non-OO "Program Manager" and Bill Gates thought the internet was going to be run by MSN and AOL.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    10. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'm firmly in Apple's lap today, and have been using Macs at work and elsewhere for many years, but I couldn't stand the original Mac OS.

      On a technological level, I also think it was far behind the competition in terms of memory protection, cooperative multitasking, etc.

      And from a user level, that meant bunk. With the exception of some of the brain-dead System 7.5 patches, the classic Mac OS was indistinguishable from OS/2 or WinNT as far as multitasking and stability went.

      A Windows admin, having read something in a tech magazine, once bragged to my father while demonstrating the fancy new multitasking and multithreading capabilities in Windows. Old Dad, not being technical in the least, promptly demonstrated the exact same thing on his Mac. The Windows admin went away with his proverbial tail between his legs.

      Neither Dad nor the Windows admin could tell the difference.

    11. Re:90's OS by Bassman59 · · Score: 1

      was that the motorola chips were becoming dated, which Apple fixed in the Mid 90's with the power PC.

      ... the PowerPC chips were designed by Motorola, IBM fabbed them and eventually bought out the design when Motorola dumped it ... which also triggered Apple to jump to x86.

      Actually, PowerPC is based on IBM's POWER platform, and the AIM (Apple IBM Motorola) Alliance was formed to basically try to create a RISC alternative to Intel CISC processors.

      Motorola (now Freescale) has not dumped PowerPC; it is still alive and well in the embedded market where Intel has no credible entries (PPC's main competition in that space are various flavors of ARM). The main issue was Freescale's (and IBM's, to an extent) inability to show a roadmap for a much lower power/higher-performance follow-on to the G5.

    12. Re:90's OS by Drizzt+Do'Urden · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but you're wrong!

      There was a kernel, it was called nuKernel. The boot ROM was used to launch the machine and provide the hardware information. You could replace the Finder with any other app and make the computer boot and work, but the System file was necessary for anything to function.

      For the WaitNextEvent thing, what you describe is cooperative multitasking in an OS without memory protection.

      Oh.. and DOS was an OS too...

    13. Re:90's OS by puto · · Score: 1

      I very cleary remember maintaining about 25 NT servers and do not recall having many problems with them. Of course I bought HP servers certified to run NT, so I never had an issue with drivers. This was 1997-1999.

      --
      The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
    14. Re:90's OS by mlts · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'd disagree. The two best UIs from the early '90s were from NeXTStep and IRIX [1]. NeXTStep was very usable, although a bit funky to get used to with the command bar and such. However, it was one of the few workstation OSes that was also a very well thought out OS for daily desktop use. Hardware wise, the NeXT was expensive, but the cube was well made, and the printer did a decent 400 DPI, which was great for its time.

      Come the mid 90s, Windows 95 was actually a decent improvement, but the NeXT dock is still one of the UI concepts that is still common even now.

      [1]: Technically, the IRIX 4Dwm window manager. For eye candy, it couldn't be beaten at the time (and this was before CDE came out, and waaay before the KDE/GNOME initatives.)

    15. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      summary: MacOS used cooperative multitasking and didn't have protected memory. You don't know what an OS is.

    16. Re:90's OS by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Wasn't it only the G5, at the end of Apple's PPC run, that was based on the POWER platform? My understanding is that the G3/G4 weren't POWER-based.

    17. Re:90's OS by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      You said:
      > Well, the WWW didn't exist in 1989

      I didn't say it did, but that NeXTstep was available in 1989, and hence in the 90s. From:

      http://info.cern.ch/

      ``CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, is where it all began in March 1989....When they settled on a name in May 1990, it was the WorldWideWeb.''

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    18. Re:90's OS by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 0, Troll

      IIRC, NT required 12-16+ MG of RAM at a time when machines shipped with 4MG and RAM prices were through the roof. NT was never a competitor with Mac Classic. NT was a business OS, Mac Classic was home. Apples & Watermelons.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    19. Re:90's OS by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Windows still used the non-OO "Program Manager"

      Only if you didn't use it right. You can create Program Manager 'groups' and drag and drop *.doc and *.xls (and any other file extension configured to an app) icons into the groups and have your icons represent the objects (app data files) if you choose. Some of us figured that out.

      It was 'slicker' of course to install HP's NewWave, but that just added another layer of croft. Apparently it was good enough to get Jobs wee-wee'd up enough to sue HP, though.

    20. Re:90's OS by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      it is still alive and well in the embedded market where Intel has no credible entries

      Well, other than the fact that even today the 8051 arch still owns a decent chunk of the market, and has a long powerful legacy.

    21. Re:90's OS by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      Bill Gates thought the internet was going to be run by MSN and AOL.

      In everything but name, Gates was right.

      Mostly AOL, though.

    22. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. In the 90's I had a NeXt at home(on loan) and ran a IRIX system for data analysis. I also had accounts on the VAX and a Cray. These all had wonderful operating systems. But for desktop personal computers that the average person has access to, the OS had much to be desired, mostly due to immaturity and lack of processing power. The IRIX, in particular, would gain focus on the window that the mouse cursor was hovering in, a innovation that is very useful. It was very wonderful to work on. Unfortunately, it was not a machine I could personally own.

    23. Re:90's OS by uglyduckling · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I ran NT4 as my primary OS for about 8 months, and that wasn't my experience at all. Maybe rubbish shareware and 3D games wouldn't work, but all of the desktop productivity type software I had worked, all of the esoteric engineering apps for my uni course worked well. The main issue was device drivers for cheaper hardware, but then it was those that made Win 9x so unstable.

    24. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And from a user level, that meant bunk. With the exception of some of the brain-dead System 7.5 patches, the classic Mac OS was indistinguishable from OS/2 or WinNT as far as multitasking and stability went.

      STRONGLY disagree. Perhaps people are forgetting now that multitasking is fast and ubiquitous but cooperative multitasking was very frequently a PITA. I/O in the background? Your foreground is hurting. Doing something simple like copying files to the network, to a USB stick, to a floppy? You're dead in the water.

      I also disagree about stability. A badly behaving OS9 app would frequently bring down the entire system. I used OS/2 from 2 through 4 and such crashes were very, very rare.

      Anybody who actually used your examples of NT and OS/2 would not experience these things like you would on System 7 though Mac OS 9.2.2.

      Neither Dad nor the Windows admin could tell the difference.

      Can't agree. At work we got rid of our last OS9 computer within the last year. It ran some legacy software. Multitasking hangups were quite common. Entire system crashes ("the bomb") were quite common as well.

    25. Re:90's OS by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      Early PPC (eg, 601) were a superset of the POWER ISA (and binary compatible). Later models dropped full binary compatability, but they were still based on POWER.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    26. Re:90's OS by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      Er, not sure why my last message was posted anonymous but the "STRONGLY disagree" post below was me.

    27. Re:90's OS by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>In the 90's, all OS sucked. Networking and the internet made them look old. Mac OS still sucked less...

      Man do I disagree with that statement. The best operating system was Amiga OS, since it was the only one that could do preemptive tasking, enabling people to run multiple programs at the same time (but without bringing down the whole system if one crashed). Mac OS was a close second. GEOS on C=64 a close third.

      And then came Windows which sucked worse than DOS or CLI.

      As for processors, well I honestly saw no difference between a 68050 and the then-new PowerPC. In fact I found the PPC machines often ran slower (sluggish response to the user), and I was left unimpressed.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    28. Re:90's OS by makomk · · Score: 1

      MacOS actually really, really sucked. NT had memory protection, MacOS didn't.

      Even Windows 95 had memory protection. Wasn't quite as good as NT in other ways, but it was definitely a home OS.

    29. Re:90's OS by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That depends on what you mean the competition. It was quite comparable to the Windows 95/98 OSes technically, but was technically far inferior to NT. OSX came along at roughly the same time as XP, which was the first superior OS Microsoft tried hard to sell into the home market.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    30. Re:90's OS by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>MS also released their first real GUI OS, Windows NT. By 1996 MS has a credible OS, which remain useful until 2000, when XP became a reasonable successor.

      Uh... what? XP is not a successor to NT. It *is* NT. Ditto Vista and Seven (NT 6.0 and 6.1 respectively). You make a good point about the web being the main use for most people, but you still need an OS to run those various programs - like the browser. And the video editor. And the music downloader (aka iTunes). And of course from time to time even casual users need to write a resume on their word processor. You need the OS as the base for all these programs.

      Sorry but I don't see cloud programs as being any more successful than the old dumb terminals of the 70s, 80s, and early 90s.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    31. Re:90's OS by dropadrop · · Score: 1

      NT was pretty stable, only lacking in multimedia and gaming (though I made music with a NT 4 workstation at the end of the 90's). I remember a friend buying a tricked out G4 when they where first released, it cost shitloads of money. It was crashing daily while my computer (running Generator on NT4) was rock solid.

      It's kind of a pity that OS9 was my only mac experience at a time, it left such a sour taste in my mouth that I had to be practically forced to try a mac again when switching to a new job 5 years later. Kudos to Apple for having the balls to start so fresh again.

    32. Re:90's OS by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong. I remember using an SGI (large greed thing. Indy 2?) in 1994, when Windows 3.11 was the state of the art on a PC and being blown away and I remember the amazing video performance of the O2 but...

      The IRIX, in particular, would gain focus on the window that the mouse cursor was hovering in, a innovation that is very useful.

      Not really. That's the default mode of operation of X11 if no window manager is running. It was also a feature of twm, which arrived in 1989 or so.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    33. Re:90's OS by Moridineas · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't think I would agree with your assertion.

      Absolutely agree that in the very early 90s Mac OS was superior to the DOS/win31 combo. Moving past them, don't forget that even Win95 had preemptive multitasking. Multitasking is--and was--a big deal. Remember hearing the disk grind and not being able to switch applications? Remember copying a file to the network or a disk and not being able to do anything but wait for it to finish?

    34. Re:90's OS by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      Between 1998 and 2000 I used NT4. It was a perfectly serviceable operating system in the office environment. It ran Office, Visual Studio, Outlook, Netscape Navigator, etc etc perfectly well. It was also pretty stable with the right drivers.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    35. Re:90's OS by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      NT before 2000 was hardly a 'useful' OS. It was Windows, but with an extremely limited set of available software since most things that worked in 95 or 3.x that weren't extremely simple wouldn't work right in NT, if at all. It was buggy, crashed often, even without any third party software or drivers.

      I used NT4 from early 1996 until Win2k was released, and it was fine - most Win32 and even Win16 software worked without problem on it (including games), unless they were trying to do something particularly low level like disk checking, or were really just a DOS program wrapped in a cheap suit.

      Certainly all the "important" software like Office, Photoshop, etc, I ever tried worked without a hitch.

    36. Re:90's OS by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With the exception of some of the brain-dead System 7.5 patches, the classic Mac OS was indistinguishable from OS/2 or WinNT as far as multitasking and stability went.

      No it wasn't, not even close. You could bring a Mac to a dead halt simply by holding open a menu, and you'd be lucky to get a few days out of it without a bomb screen.

      NT - and even OS/2 - would happily do things like burn CDs (at a blistering 4x) and play games simultaneously, with other stuff like a browser and email client ticking away in the background. The mere *idea* of doing that on MacOS is laughable.

      Not to mention taking full advantage of higher-end machines with large amounts of RAM and multiple CPUs (though OS/2 wasn't particularly good at that either).

      Neither Dad nor the Windows admin could tell the difference.

      He couldn't have been trying very hard then. It was trivial to demonstrate how much MacOS's co-operative multitasking sucked, all you needed to do was start something reasonably large compressing with StuffIT and do something else while that was happening (or the aforementioned click-and-hold to keep a menu open).

    37. Re:90's OS by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Like all the other replies to your comments, I too used NT before 2000 and found it far more stable than the other MS OSs available at the time. I used NT 3.51 from more or less when it first came out - I remember it quite well because it was the first OS I used that implemented full window dragging, I feature I was very impressed with for some reason. I did 16 bit (not 32 bit, it had to run on windows 3.51 too) development in it using Visual Studio 1.51, and when the product crashed (as it often did...) I remember being very pleased that the OS kept on trucking without requiring me to reboot (again!!).

    38. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OS 9 (Classic) fell short technically as it had its own poor foundations with lots of extra kludge added to extend it. But in one respect it was great!
      Find worked better that Spotlight ever has.
      You could search multiple parameters easily file name, date created, modified, type and creator, all system wide. I still can't do that with Spotlight and I use Mac OS X all day long, every day.
      Then there is window management, don't get me started! In OS 9 after closing any window, on reopening, it would open in the same view and in the same position as when I had closed it. I absolutely long for THAT experience back again.

    39. Re:90's OS by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Informative

      That depends on what you mean the competition. It was quite comparable to the Windows 95/98 OSes technically, but was technically far inferior to NT.

      Windows 3.1 would be a much more accurate comparison. Co-operative multitasking, no memory protection, static disk cache, etc. Windows 9x was essentially a generation ahead of MacOS, NT another generation again.

    40. Re:90's OS by dbIII · · Score: 1

      There is still one legacy system in my workplace with Win95. It is crap by any description. It was really disappointment with the reality of Win95 as compared with the hype that drove me to use linux instead.

    41. Re:90's OS by Bassman59 · · Score: 1

      it is still alive and well in the embedded market where Intel has no credible entries

      Well, other than the fact that even today the 8051 arch still owns a decent chunk of the market, and has a long powerful legacy.

      Except:

      a) "in the market where Intel has no credible entries" means, in this case, the 32-bit market dominated by ARM and to a lesser extent, PPC, and

      b) Intel has completely ceded the 8-bit 8x51 market to Silicon Labs and NXP. I don't think Intel even sells 8x51s any more.

    42. Re:90's OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked at a software development company in the late 90s, and we used NT4 on all of our programmers' and IT workstations. I can't recall ever having a problem because of it. NT4 did not have good DirectX support, so hardly any games worked with it. This was the major reason that I didn't use it at home; that and I had Linux and didn't need Windows for much of anything besides games. I do remember that a lot of software had problems running on NT 3.5 and NT 3.51.

    43. Re:90's OS by catmistake · · Score: 1

      But the other Macintosh operating system was pretty fsck'n cool. I miss A/UX

  12. There was no NeXTstep 4.2 by WillAdams · · Score: 5, Informative

    It was OPENSTEP 4.2 --- which Apple actually sold for a time, along w/ providing free Y2K patches and free upgrades to NeXTstep 3.3 or OPENSTEP 4.2 to license holders of earlier versions.

    Amusing rumour is that ``Yellow Box'' was so named because Bill Gates, when asked if he'd develop for NeXT stated, ``Develop for it? I'll piss on it.''

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/14/gates_says_jobs_saved_apple/

    As nice as Mac OS X is though, I'd still rather have NeXTstep:

      - Display PostScript
      - built-in PANTONE colour library
      - vertical, movable menu bar w/ tear off menus and pop-up menus
      - top-level Print, Hide, Quit and Services menu
      - TeX provided by default and supported by the nifty TeXview.app
      - inspector-provided sort options for Miller-column filebrowser view
      - re-sizeable Shelf which can store multiple file selections as a single icon
      - nifty apps which made use of Services and Display PostScript like beYAP.app, Altsys Virtuoso, poste.app &c.

    William

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    1. Re:There was no NeXTstep 4.2 by Leon+Buijs · · Score: 1

      The dock is nice but I'd still trade it in any time for it's predecessor, the hide-up-to-the-label / pop-up-again type of folders of OS 9.

    2. Re:There was no NeXTstep 4.2 by cjonslashdot · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      One of the comments in the MacWorld article says,

      I had a NeXT color work station w/ a 21 inch monitor, surfing the web with omniweb browser. It was slow, running with 12 megs of ram. For $205 dollars I purchased a 4 meg ram stick through BestBuy and went to 16 megs of ram. Golly was that fast! NeXT Step 3.2 was a more elegant Desk top than OS X. I have a Mac Book running 10.5.8 with two gigs of Ram and I am not a geek by any stretch, yet that NextStep 3.2 graphical user interface was marvelous. The best!!

      This brings up an interesting point: How large was Next Step? And how large is today's OS X? And what do we really get for all that? And how fast was the Next CPU? And how fast is the CPU in today's Mac? And do we see that increase in actual, tangible performance for the user? If not, why not?

    3. Re:There was no NeXTstep 4.2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " - vertical, movable menu bar w/ tear off menus and pop-up menus"

      Oh, good heavens I *wish* this was available for OS X. It's the number one thing I miss, especially the way you could arrange the torn-off menus wherever you wanted on the screen and the program would remember the arrangement for next time you ran the program. It would be a much better menu system than the current "vintage Mac OS" style, particularly for multiple displays.

    4. Re:There was no NeXTstep 4.2 by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      And that's different from putting a folder in the Dock how?

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    5. Re:There was no NeXTstep 4.2 by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      NeXTstep could be installed almost completely on a ~300 MB disk (the Developer tools were just a bit too big for that to fit, so one had to spring for a 426MB or larger disk to have everything plus room to work).

      NeXT CPUs were 25 MHz (the original 68030 and the later 68040) or 33 MHz (68040 ``Turbo''). There was also a NeXT RISC design which was never released and it also ran on SPARCs, HP-PA ``Gecko'' RISC workstations and of course ``white'' hardware running on 80486 25MHz and faster machines.

      Mac OS X 10.6 minimum requirement per Apple is for a 5 GB HD --- actual usage is a bit less than that.

      I used to use, between work and home, a trio of machines all running at a base speed of 25 MHz --- my NeXT Cube, a Mac Quadra (forget the model number) and a ThinkPad 755c --- the NeXT was the winner hands down and I truly regretted not being able to get OPENSTEP running on the ThinkPad (this after buying OPENSTEP 4.2 from Apple expressly for that purpose and using up quite a bit of Apple's tech support phone time). Robust, elegant, fast, efficient, stable (the only crashes I had on my Cube were associated w/ hardware failures --- I went through 3 HDs in the decade that I had it running).

      Arguably, Mac OS X feels about as fast as NeXTstep on black hardware, so is responsive enough --- and the machine is regularly backing itself up, and to be honest w/ myself, I do run a lot more programs (usually have the entire Creative Suite running) these days which do a bit more (as much as I complain about it, having a nice multi-line H&J algorithm in an interactive page layout program as InDesign does is quite nice --- AppleScripting makes it almost as automatable (w/in the limits of Adobe's license) as TeX).

      I suppose I should try to get OPENSTEP running on a portable again --- the problem is I prefer for my portables to be pen computers and the only HWR for NeXTstep which I'm aware of is Instant TeX's trainable recognition of math symbols.

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    6. Re:There was no NeXTstep 4.2 by Leon+Buijs · · Score: 1

      Now you can only hide it in the dock, then you could also roll it up to the bar anywhere on the screen. In OS9, if you'd click on another folder, the active folder would retract back to the bottom of the screen automatically (if I remember correctly). The label of the 'hidden' folder was a lot easier to hit then the icon in the dock, but then again, this has also to do with the fact that my screen resolution is quadrupled since.

    7. Re:There was no NeXTstep 4.2 by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Given Mac OS X's inheritance of inter-application window layering, I don't miss pop-up folders's twitch vanishing act, and placing a folder in the Dock is accessible enough as a drag-drop target, though I usually place things in the Sidebar for that.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  13. Re:Finder by beelsebob · · Score: 2, Informative

    Double click the resize knob at the bottom of the column, it will size itself to fit all file names in.

  14. An article about the history of the OS by joeflies · · Score: 3, Interesting

    could of used a screenshot or two of the historical operating systems. we all know what OS X looks like, but fewer of us have seen a living breathing Next cube

    1. Re:An article about the history of the OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      What the fuck does "could of" mean?

    2. Re:An article about the history of the OS by sznupi · · Score: 1

      otoh screenshots are relatively easy to come by (hitting Wiki is often enough); then there's also one thing which gives pretty good idea, for the curious.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    3. Re:An article about the history of the OS by Bassman59 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      could of used a screenshot or two of the historical operating systems. we all know what OS X looks like, but fewer of us have seen a living breathing Next cube

      You could have used some grammar lessons back in grade school, as evidenced by your first sentence.

    4. Re:An article about the history of the OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fewer of us have seen a living breathing Next cube

      Oh I do. I remember when it was introduced, although I remember the NeXT Station (pizza box shape) better. The thing I remember most was the pinwheel icon while you waited for that optical disk thing to load.

      Didn't see it again until OS X.

    5. Re:An article about the history of the OS by llamafirst · · Score: 1

      "could of used a screenshot or two of the historical operating systems."

      What the fuck does "could of" mean?

      Native speakers know that he really meant "it could have", which in verbal English becomes "coulda" or "could've", the latter of which sounds like what he typed.

      There's no need to be mean about it. And certainly no need to score the parent post as "Score: 3 Insightful".

    6. Re:An article about the history of the OS by Arker · · Score: 1

      To this day I still think OpenStep is the best GUI I've ever seen.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    7. Re:An article about the history of the OS by Udo+Schmitz · · Score: 1

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A Must be from around 1992. Makes me cry, because we had to wait 8+ years to get those features in an affordable main stream system.

    8. Re:An article about the history of the OS by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the amusing thing is how other graphic designers would tell me I was wasting my time using a NeXT Cube and how the first couple of MacWorld Expos after Apple bought NeXT were filled w/ Mac-fans clapping to rehashes of old NeXTworld Expo presentations.

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    9. Re:An article about the history of the OS by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Hm, makes sense regarding how Jobs could carry away the audience - those were largely live rehearsals?

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  15. Oops. by drerwk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sorry for self reply - my first Mac was a IIci; yes color was missing from the Mac between 1984 and '87.

    Wish I could delete my previsou. post

    1. Re:Oops. by NJRoadfan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Kinda sad the Apple IIgs had a Mac style GUI in color before the Mac did.

    2. Re:Oops. by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >>>Kinda sad the Apple IIgs had a Mac style GUI in color before the Mac did.

      Kinda sad the lowly 8 bit Commodore had a color GUI before the 32-bit Mac did. The GEOS was black-and-white by default, but could be customized to any 16 color combo.

      1985 - Atari ST / Commodore Amiga released with 32 and 4000 colors
      1986 - C64 got GUI
      1986 - Apple IIgs had 16 color GUI and an improved 6502 with 16 bits (65816)

      I didn't see my first color Mac until my school installed a 68040 Quadra. 1994. Prior to that all I ever saw were the single piece Macs with tiny screens. It made me yearn for my hi-res Amiga, but that was not allowed by the professors.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:Oops. by Creepy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Part of the reason for no color was Apple was still targeting business and wanted to be seen as a business machine, not a toy like the Apple ][ line. IMO, Apple made a HUGE mistake of going after the business market exclusively for a while (trying to go head-to-head with IBM) and pretty much pissing on their consumer market. I know several people that (claim) they will never buy another Apple product because of how Apple handled the GS.

    4. Re:Oops. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      IBM clones sold with color graphics cards in the 80s.

      The idea that Apple was trying to court the business crowd by crippling their hardware is laughable.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    5. Re:Oops. by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      That's not sad at all. Plus, it had proportional scrollbars many years before the Mac, and the toolbox is still easier to program. (TaskMaster()).

    6. Re:Oops. by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      IBM clones sold with color graphics cards in the 80s.

      The idea that Apple was trying to court the business crowd by crippling their hardware is laughable.

      As opposed to the claim that the business crowd was hot for blocky graphics in garish CGA colors?

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    7. Re:Oops. by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Of course. The IIgs toolbox is newer by 2 years, enough time to find out what does/doesn't work with how it was done on the Mac. Less memory constraints too compared to the original Mac (256k upgradable to 8MB on the initial IIgs vs. 128k non-upgradable on the original Mac)

    8. Re:Oops. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>IBM clones sold with color graphics cards in the 80s.

      Yeah not really. 1984 is when the Mac was released, and most IBM PCs/clones in that year shipped with just 4 colors. In essence, black-and-white plus two ugly garish colors. If Apple really was targeting business, being black and white was not an impediment.

      It did however look inferior for us home users desiring to play games, music, and videos. Going from a 128 color Atari or 4000 color Amiga to a 4 color IBM or Mac seemed illogical.

       

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    9. Re:Oops. by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but I just meant that I think that in the time *since* then, at least for "event loop driven" apps, it's still easier.

    10. Re:Oops. by catmistake · · Score: 1

      I realize the thread is about color, but I got here late and don't see where I can put this.. anyway... also kinda sad CMU had Mach OS before NeXT. I don't see Mach OS mentioned anywhere... it wasn't just a kernel. My understanding is NeXT took Mach OS, and shoved it into the FreeBSD kernel (and built dev tools and a GUI)... they didn't swap the kernels.

  16. origins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean Bell Labs and the PDP-7?

  17. Mac OS X Internals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    A good book on the guts and history of OS X. Amit Singh's Mac OS X Internals: A Systems Approach. (www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321278542).

  18. Re:NeXT. Thanks. by Chaostrophy · · Score: 1

    NeXTstep used a variety of cap options, NextSTEP......ah, the late 1980s-early 1990s!

    --
    Plato seems wrong to me today
  19. Re:NeXT. Thanks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    copy and pasted from Wikipedia.

    "Next, Inc. (later Next Computer, Inc. and Next Software, Inc. and stylized as NeXT) was an American computer company headquartered in Redwood City, California, that developed and manufactured a series of computer workstations intended for the higher education and business markets.

  20. NeXT computer emulator? by linebackn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The last time I checked, there still was no way to kick around the really old original 68k versions of NeXTSTEP other than buying a NeXT machine and its optical media off of eBay. I wish somebody would write NeXT emulator that emulated the original 68k machines. The x86 version is interesting and all, but the 68k version is where it all started.

    I guess people only bother emulating platforms that have lots of games.

    1. Re:NeXT computer emulator? by sznupi · · Score: 1

      I guess people only bother emulating platforms that have lots of games.

      Is there something about IBM mainframes the greybeards aren't telling us? ;)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    2. Re:NeXT computer emulator? by jonwil · · Score: 1

      well an IBM Zseries IS the only computer powerfull enough to run Crysis with all the options set to maximum...

    3. Re:NeXT computer emulator? by catmistake · · Score: 1

      Not sure how different the port is from one proc to the other, but someone has the x86 version of OPENSTEP emulated on Mac OS X in Parallels. BasiliskII was the gold standard of 68k emus, but I haven't heard of anyone running anything but MacOS on it (I had researched a little trying to find a way to emulate A/UX, but the math coprocessor isn't emulated, so no dice).

  21. Jobs reality distortion field by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, Apple used NeXT because they had to buy the worthless company for $400 million, bailing out Jobs' personal net worth, to get Jobs back.

    Apple's in-house OS, MacOS 8, made it to first developer release before Jobs killed it. This is not what Apple eventually released as "MacOS 8"; that was a warmed-over System 7. The real MacOS 8 was a completely new kernel, with protected memory and a CPU dispatcher, both of which the original MacOS lacked. (Deep down, the original MacOS was like DOS - no memory management, no CPU dispatching, no I/O concurrency, and way too many low-level hacks into the OS at the app level. It had to fit in 64K, remember.) The claim was that using the Next OS would allow getting to market within a year. In fact, it took over three years before the desktop MacOS X shipped.

    A real bottleneck was developing a "penalty box" in which old apps could run. The original "MacOS 8" didn't have that. Apple used to assume that they had enough control over their application developers to make them convert their apps to a new OS. But by 1997, the big application developers, especially Microsoft, weren't willing to jump through hoops for Apple. The PowerPC transition had driven away many developers; most of the engineering apps were never ported, because the PowerPC had a shorter FPU length than the M68000 or Intel x86 lines, there were major data compatibility problems. Jobs' real job at the time was to cut a deal with Microsoft to keep Office on the Mac.

    1. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, System 8 (Copland) had a ton of problems without including Jobs. The problem was, it was a disjointed effort where nothing was getting done. If anything blame Ellen Hancock for purchasing NeXT because when she was hired she basically said "screw this, it isn't ever going to get shipped" so they bailed out Jobs.

      Copland wasn't going anywhere so Apple decided to cut their losses.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by Nebulo · · Score: 1

      Um. Not sure which 1996-2000 you lived through, but that history doesn't quite match the one I experienced.

      Nebulo

    3. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      @Animats #apple had half a dozen new OS projects to replace the #system7, none of them went anywhere.

    4. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by bonch · · Score: 1

      The claim was that using the Next OS would allow getting to market within a year. In fact, it took over three years before the desktop MacOS X shipped.

      Part of this was due to stubborn developers like Adobe and Microsoft threatening to leave the platform rather than port their applications to the NeXTStep API. Apple had to start over and develop Core Foundation with Carbon on top of it alongside Cocoa.

    5. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Are you slashtweeting?

    6. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This distorts reality a bit in the other direction... they already realized that Copeland was going nowhere, and were looking to buy/create a new architecture and concentrate on the end-user side of the OS. BeOS was the major contender being looked at, but NeXT was also in view. Then people started questioning Gil's (mis)management of the company... and the board had this offer from Steve to come back and help out, as long as they brought his company with him.

      Personally, I think they made the right decision. NextSTEP is closer to what Copeland should have been than BeOS. Then again, I was using NeXT computers at the time with zero issues, and had problems with all the BeOS releases (never got one to fully work for me), so that probably influences my feelings on the matter. BeOS was a nifty OS in much the same way that Rhapsody was an interesting OS... an unfinished sort of way.

      I think BeOS would have been better served to try merging with the Amiga OS guys... those two systems merged together would have made a killer OS. Of course, there were issues obtaining hardware at the time (and still are), even with the reference boards coming out.

    7. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      I got Be working just fine on x86, but, again, that's x86, and well after the Jobs takeover.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    8. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by maccodemonkey · · Score: 1

      The original Mac OS 8 was notoriously unstable, and even less compatible with existing Mac apps than OS X was. It also included a brand new API that Apple was attempting to switch developers to. But it was infamous for breaking tons of existing Mac apps, meaning Apple was struggling to add both a new API and design, while keeping existing software working.

      The difference was, Copland even in it's last developers betas could barely even boot, much less attempt to run any existing OS 9 apps, while NeXTStep was proven and working. Yes, Apple had to make same changes to NeXTStep, and port it to PowerPC, but they started with something far more put together than Copland ever was.

    9. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Informative
      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    10. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple's in-house OS, MacOS 8, made it to first developer release before Jobs killed it. This is not what Apple eventually released as "MacOS 8"; that was a warmed-over System 7. The real MacOS 8 was a completely new kernel, with protected memory and a CPU dispatcher, both of which the original MacOS lacked.

      As others have pointed out, Jobs didn't kill Copland (the OS you're referring to). Apple's pre-Jobs executive team of Gil Amelio and Ellen Hancock did. As of about the time when that developer release was "released" (only to device driver developers because it was too dysfunctional for anybody working at a higher level, and actually too dysfunctional even to do device driver development on, but they had missed so many deadlines there was a lot of pressure to release something), Amelio and Hancock were convinced that Copland was going nowhere fast, would require a ground-up rewrite to meet specifications, and that the software development management at Apple was too broken to accomplish that rewrite. On top of which, Apple was in sorry shape financially and had a huge 3rd party developer confidence crisis to manage (it wasn't only insiders who knew that Apple's organization was a mess; a lot of Apple's current obsession with secrecy dates from those days when internal Apple political wars were routinely fought out in the press through deliberate leaks). So, they decided to cancel Copland and seek an outside OS for the next generation MacOS through merger or acquisition, because if they didn't have a credible OS story quick developers were going to bolt. The winner of that search was eventually NeXT.

      And you know, they weren't wrong. If you'd ever tried to install and run that Copland developer release, you'd know why.

      (Deep down, the original MacOS was like DOS - no memory management, no CPU dispatching, no I/O concurrency, and way too many low-level hacks into the OS at the app level. It had to fit in 64K, remember.)

      It most certainly did have memory management. There were system calls for allocation and deallocation, and by making applications use handles (double indirect pointers) for allocated memory instead of raw pointers, the OS could even move allocated blocks around behind the application's back in order to defragment free space. Better yet, it could even temporarily unload some types of allocated memory resources not currently in use to make room for other things. A clumsy-yet-ingenious workaround for the lack of a MMU, in other words.

      It was actually the relative sophistication of what they did in the 1980s which came back to bite them. A lot of it was a horrible fit to preemptive multitasking and MMU-based memory management.

      The PowerPC transition had driven away many developers; most of the engineering apps were never ported, because the PowerPC had a shorter FPU length than the M68000 or Intel x86 lines, there were major data compatibility problems.

      Oh, what a load of garbage. The engineering apps were ported early, and enthusiastically. The lack of 80-bit FP was no barrier because few applications truly depended on it (*), and the performance leap from 68K was extreme.

      * - Have you noticed that these days x86 is slowly but surely migrating away from 80-bit FP too? It's only supported in x87, and the modern preferred way to do FP on x86 is through SSE (it's not just for vectors). SSE doesn't support 80-bit FP formats, only 64-bit. Also, you seem to be under the delusion that this creates a _data_ compatibility problem. It doesn't. 80-bit IEEE mode for both 68K and x86 was internal-only. When you load and store doubles, they're read and written in the 64-bit format. There is no valid in-memory 80-bit format. The 80-bit extended precision is only maintained so long as values stay inside processor registers. Soon as you write to memory, it gets rounded to 64-bit. So all that really happens is that some algorithms see less precision during calculation chains involving intermediate values which aren't written to memory.

      Jobs' real job at the time was to cut a deal with Microsoft to keep Office on the Mac.

      More trollish garbage...

    11. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by DesScorp · · Score: 1

      What will always be a mystery to me is why Apple picked NeXT over BeOS, especially since Be was basically written by a bunch of Apple vets that wanted to write the next great GUI system. It had everything they wanted... protected memory, code for multiple processors, etc. And everyone I've known thats used Be has told me it was by far the fastest multimedia platform of its day, far outpacing the performance of NeXT systems.

      Don't get me wrong... NeXT was intriguing, and I'm an OS X user, and love it. But at the time, Be was basically ready to go. Either Be's management couldn't sell food to starving people, or Steve Jobs must have put on one hell of a reality distortion field show when he met with Apple. As a parent poster mentioned, it took fully 3 years to turn NeXT into something Apple users would want.

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    12. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by RocketRabbit · · Score: 1

      It was because Jean Louis Gassee (sp?) was a tremendous douche who wanted way too much cash for his OS.

    13. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by DesScorp · · Score: 1

      It was because Jean Louis Gassee (sp?) was a tremendous douche who wanted way too much cash for his OS.

      Didn't Apple end up paying more for NeXT than Be was asking?

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    14. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by dwightk · · Score: 1

      BeOS was ready to provide backwards compatibility with OS9?

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    15. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Here's a classic old usenet post which pretty much sums up the state of things back then:

      From: Steven W. Schuldt
      Subject: Re: write once, run where?
      Date: 1997/11/18
      Message-ID:
      X-Deja-AN: 290389819
      References:
      Organization: MediaOne -=- Northeast Region
      Reply-To: sschu...@mediaone.net
      Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy

      In article mmalcolm crawford
      writes:
      > "Ellison says Apple's NC will roll out in March"
      > http://www2.computerworld.com/home/online9697.nsf/All/971114ellison1A3DE
      >
      > OPENSTEP developers might be worried by Ellison assertion that 'Apple's
      > future lies with the development of its Macintosh operating system. "What's
      > important at Apple is the Mac OS. It doesn't have some of the multitasking,
      > high-end features that Windows has, but it's the Mac OS that's strategic to
      > Apple, not Rhapsody..."'
      >
      > Time, perhaps, for those with an interest in Rhapsody to remind Apple of the
      > fact.
      >
      > Best wishes,
      >
      > mmalc.
      >
      This stuff absolutely gives me the heebee-jeebees. He has said a number of
      these things over the last couple of weeks to the effect of, "forget Rhapsody,
      Apple has Steve". You know, Larry, Steve, Cambell, York et al don't have to
      go down into the mines and actually shovel code to make a living in this
      world. It isn't as if Steve was there for me this afternoon, leaning over my
      shoulder helping me code my gargantuan web app. What do they care how hard my
      job is? Can you see the boardroom? "Sure, MacOS forever, great. Yeah, yeah,
      Java blah blah blah. Love that webtop. Pass the bong..." Fellas, down here
      in the trenches battling the Win32 hordes is no picnic, we'd like some real
      help. For example, it would help to have a real weapon. It's like we're
      yelling:

      Developers: "They're flanking us, pass me that musket!"
      Apple: "Here's your slingshot.",
      Developers:"The musket, the MUSKET dammit!"
      Apple: "Hey, how about these Chinese throwing stars!"
      Developers: "Aaaaahhhh..."

      I like Larry Ellison, and I believe in the vision of the NC (albeit a slightly
      different one than Larry's), but is this just line-towing corporate-speak
      while Rhapsody cooks or is the whole Rhap initiative being subtly shafted
      behind the scenes to bail out Larry's disastrous NCI initiative?

      Let me state for the record that I know people that have seen the movers and
      technology at NCI up close and personal, and to be generous we are not talking
      about anything proximate to Avie and NeXT-caliber. This stuff is crap and
      ORACLE knows it, hence the recent folding of NCI and re-absorbtion into the
      mothership. The MacOS, cute and spunky as it is (hopping around gamely on
      it's spindly little legs), is out of it's depths as the '90s scream to a close
      and Apple _ought_ to know it. NT, although awkward and unweildy, becomes less
      crap with every passing quarter - and festooned with every advantage infinite
      bushels of cash can buy will kick the living snot out of Allegro and that
      scotch-tape and spit freeware abortion that is the NC server from ORACLE.
      It'd be like sending your grandmother and Gomer Pyle into a room to battle
      Dolph Lundgren to the death. NT will stomp on that combo so hard there will
      be nothing but blood and broken teeth left on the pavement. QTML, Rhapsody
      and the OpenStep frameworks are the only technologies Apple has that can
      weather the coming NT 5 firestorm and come out alive. It will really frost my
      ass if the Apple NC turns out to be merely a wedge to prop up ORACLE's shitty
      NC server and cartoonish, scandalously lame Java webtop. ORACLE needs Apple's
      technology and not the other way around. Here's hoping Larry figures that out
      and learns to like the idea. He'd have a shot if he'd euthanize his sick pet
      and leverage OpenStep. I could do in an aft

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    16. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Since it took them three years to get OSX out the door, it seems like the problems with BeOS could have been solved in that timeframe. Indeed, most of them were solved in that timeframe, even though Be was circling the bowl at the time. As part of Apple it would certainly have had the resources to develop even more quickly, but it probably would have been prevented from doing so as it was integrated into Apple's corporate culture, which usually destroys a working development model. Apple wanted Jobs, and they got NeXTStep in the bargain, plain and simple.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by sznupi · · Score: 1

      BeOS did appear to handle multimedia fine; but in some ways it seemed to be quite archaic, 90's-era OS - specifically in its security & "single userness".

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    18. Re:Jobs reality distortion field by catmistake · · Score: 1

      You seem to know a lot, it's a shame you posted AC, because I'd really like to know wtf Taligent was, and I bet you know.

  22. scores of Windows users by drdrgivemethenews · · Score: 0, Troll

    The article states "the beta gave the general public their first taste of an operating system that would go on to win popular acclaim and attract scores of Windows users to the Macintosh." One score being 20, I guess that means maybe a couple hundred Windows users switched over?

  23. early origins by slapout · · Score: 1

    I imagine it started out something like this:

    #include nextstep.h

    int main(argc, char *argv[])
    { //TODO: Insert OS here
    }

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    1. Re: early origins by fnj · · Score: 1

      try.c:1:10: error: #include expects "FILENAME" or <FILENAME>
      try.c:3: error: expected ')' before 'char'

    2. Re: early origins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      int argc

    3. Re: early origins by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Is // style commenting allowed in Objective-C?

      I should install my copy of 1995-era Slackware I guess. It had a complete Objective-C development suite.

    4. Re: early origins by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      Yes, unless you use commandline magic to disable it.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    5. Re: early origins by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Objective-C doesn't have #include, it has #import.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    6. Re: early origins by Dreadrik · · Score: 1

      Actually, it has both.

  24. Re:Finder by Bassman59 · · Score: 1

    The only thing I really miss from Windows is the File Explorer. Finder works, but its horizontal scrolling mode, where the view is never as wide as the filenames, is really annoying.

    You can do a "New Finder Window" in OS X. There might be something similar in Windows, but I haven't found it. Of course I'm still on XP, so ...

  25. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows Explorer and Finder are both sad jokes when compared to something like Konqueror or Dolphin. How do you non directory opus using Windows users get by without tabs and split screen view in your file manager? For that matter, what happened to the "go up one directory" button that you used to have.

  26. From TFA... by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

    In the Public Beta, Mail.app was present at a bristling young version 1.0. Surprisingly, it worked quite well.

    Huh. I wonder what happened to it? Because "worked quite well" is not a phrase I would use to describe Mail.app in any version of OSX that I've used (that is, Tiger and above).

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    1. Re:From TFA... by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      I particularly like its creative take on counting unread messages...

    2. Re:From TFA... by penguinchris · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you mean since I don't use Mail.app, but Thunderbird on OS X is rather "creative" counting unread messages as well.

  27. Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by bsDaemon · · Score: 0, Troll

    From the article you linked:

    When Jobs petulantly pouted that Windows stole the Mac's look and feel, Gates countered with "Hey, Steve, just because you broke into Xerox's house before I did and stole the TV doesn't mean that I can't go in later and take the stereo."

    That pretty much sums it up right there. I know its probably meaningless for most people in the world, but when those who claim to be "in the know" start taking sides between Apple and MS on "innovation," they really need to just check that right there.

    1. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by bonch · · Score: 5, Informative

      That pretty much sums it up right there. I know its probably meaningless for most people in the world, but when those who claim to be "in the know" start taking sides between Apple and MS on "innovation," they really need to just check that right there.

      You're buying into Bill Gates' bullshit. Apple didn't "steal" anything; they had an agreement with Xerox. Many of the guys who worked on the Mac were hired from Xerox.

      Several conventions originated at Apple, such as the "File Edit View Window Help" menu or the phrase "cut and paste." Lisa was already in development when Apple visited Xerox to see what they were working on, so while they were influenced by what they saw, it wasn't an inspiration to go in some whole new direction.

      Much of this is detailed at Herztfeld's site, including sketches and screenshots of their GUI work.

    2. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by Graymalkin · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple did not steal the GUI from Xerox. They got to tour PARC with permission from Xerox's upper management and compensated Xerox with pre-IPO shares. What the Mac did with the ideas from PARC was very different from what Xerox did with the ideas out of PARC. This is also very different from Microsoft sending an employee to copy implementation details from Apple. Do go waving some out of context quote around without knowing the actual history of the situation.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    3. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by uglyduckling · · Score: 3, Informative

      See, the idea that Apple stole the GUI lock/stock from Xerox and then accused Microsoft of the same thing is a massive myth. Have you even looked at the Alto/Star GUI? It used modal buttons along the bottom of windows; windows were tiled and could not overlap. Yes, the general concept of the GUI was developed at PARC, although that wasn't entirely original (see Douglas Englebart's 1960s demo. Apple made a huge contribution to modern GUIs. Check out the photographic record of the Lisa/Mac GUI development. Apple invented the pull-down menu whilst developing Lisa/Mac, they also invented the clipboard, and the idea of dragging and dropping files, to name just three things. All of these were totally copied by Microsoft, although they failed at it by replicating the menu bar at the top of every window, which some people like now, but was a total waste of screen space 25 years ago.

    4. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And pay attention to the Apple stock that Xerox got. I've never known a thief who pays you for what he stole.

    5. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Are there people still arguing about this? I mean, at this point, who cares? Yeah, both Apple and Microsoft stole from Xerox. Actually, Apple and Microsoft and Google and lots of other companies continue to steal from each other. Patent issues aside, the important question is not who thought of the idea first, but who has the best implementation.

    6. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      My understanding of the situation, from years ago having watched that Robert X Cringley documentary as well as Pirates of Silicon Valley (admittedly, not a documentary) is that Jobs and some developers visited Xerox and were totally blown away by the GUI and decided to go and create one of their own.

      Microsoft was contracted to write some of the applications that would be available at launch for the Mac, like Word and some other stuff. To accomplish this, they were given a great deal of access by Apple, in addition to hardware and software to test against.

      Microsoft then showed up shortly there after with the first version of Windows, and was pushing Windows as a stop-gap between DOS and the planned release of OS/2, which it was collaborating on with IBM.

      Apple claimed Microsoft stole everything from them. The point of the Gates quote seems to be that even if Microsoft got a leg up on developing Windows because of their work on Mac software, they were both basically just building on what Xerox had done before Apple.

      I don't think that's out of context at all. Sure, I probably don't know all the details, but I wasn't alive when a lot of that was going down (I'm only 26), so I don't have first hand knowledge of it. It doesn't change the fact that Apple and Microsoft were basically just clunking around doing business as usual until they touched the obelisk.

    7. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Apple gave us, in terms of innovation, Grand Central, Webkit, Aqua and made the decision to make WiFi ubiquitous in it's offerings.

      Microsoft has given us IIS and Clippy.

      How about no.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    8. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by drsmithy · · Score: 0, Troll

      Apple gave us, in terms of innovation, Grand Central, Webkit, Aqua and made the decision to make WiFi ubiquitous in it's offerings.

      How are any of these things innovative ?

    9. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And pay attention to the Apple stock that Xerox got. I've never known a thief who pays you for what he stole.

      http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/15/business/company-news-xerox-sues-apple-computer-over-macintosh-copyright.html

    10. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > You're buying into Bill Gates' bullshit. Apple didn't "steal" anything;
      > they had an agreement with Xerox. Many of the guys who worked on the
      > Mac were hired from Xerox.

      Ok. Then just change the retort around a bit...

      "Just because you bought there TV, it doesn't mean I can't buy their stereo."
       

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    11. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Apple didn't give anyone Webkit. They took it from someone else.

      Forcing a feature down everyone's throat is not innovation. It's abusive nonsense.

      Next you'll be telling us they invented USB or the first ones to offer it pervasively.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    12. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by abigor · · Score: 1

      Wrong on Webkit. It wasn't "taken", for one thing. And Webkit bears little resemblance to KHTML these days.

    13. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next you'll be telling us they invented USB or the first ones to offer it pervasively.

      Not quite.
      They invented Apple Desktop Bus (ADB), a serial bus used primarily for input devices and other add ons. And was licensed for use by other manufacturers of computers as well.
      ADB inspired USB. It was so closely related, that's why ADB/USB converters were so quick to the market and worked so well. (told to me by an engineer who worked on both ADB and USB keyboard hardware) Making a search on Google, it seems that it's mentioned but there's no exact quote from an authoritative source from Intel.
      Apple wasn't the first to offer it pervasively. Intel did that. What Apple did was offer it exclusively, to force the expansion of the USB device market.

    14. Re:Best. Gates Quote. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft didn't buy anything. They just outright copied it.

  28. Re:Hello. by Americano · · Score: 2, Funny

    Amorous Badger

    When did Ubuntu announce a new release?

  29. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    When you need to do it every time you select a new directory, it gets old real quick. There should be an auto-resize option.

  30. Why no mention... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...of the fact that there was a not-particularly-private beta of OS X that ran on Intel hardware? Admittedly it ran on very little types of Intel hardware, but I managed to install it just the same. It was the release of 10.0 that was PPC-only; there /were/ x86 betas.

  31. No mention of BSD by nuckfuts · · Score: 1

    A "look back at the origins of OS X", and the acronym BSD doesn't appear even once in the article. WTF?

    1. Re:No mention of BSD by abigor · · Score: 1

      That would be more of a history of NextSTEP, which is where the BSD stuff was originally pulled in. There's this misconception that modern OS X is more or less a clone of one or more BSDs, but that is not the case.

    2. Re:No mention of BSD by nuckfuts · · Score: 1

      I'm not suggesting it's a clone, but that BSD is a link in the chain. Even if farther back than NextSTEP, is it not a part of "the origins"?

      On a subjective level, I've never been extremely comfortable doing technical support in a purely graphical environment. Having little hands-on experience with OS X, I sometimes struggle to locate a feature or setting that I know must be there. If I drop into a Terminal session, however, things appear somewhat familiar. At this level, the Unix heritage of OS X seems apparent to me.

    3. Re:No mention of BSD by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Well, the article shouldn't imply that the first origins of Mac OS X are NextSTEP without digging a little deeper into the origins of NextSTEP. That's very sloppy work in an article supposedly about 'origins.'

    4. Re:No mention of BSD by abigor · · Score: 1

      Well, OS X is a Unix, so it's no surprise it feels familiar. Agreed about NextSTEP, although didn't the article mention it derived from "Unix"? I can't recall if it did or not. For most readers, the distinction between just saying "Unix" and "BSD" is probably irrelevant.

    5. Re:No mention of BSD by abigor · · Score: 1

      The article mentioned NextSTEP's "Unix underpinnings" several times, actually. The typical reader of that article doesn't care about the distinction between BSD and System V - just saying Unix is informative enough.

    6. Re:No mention of BSD by WarJolt · · Score: 1

      Mach was designed to be a replacement for the BSD kernel. To say BSD was simply "Pulled in" is an understatement. It was modeled on BSD. Mach is technically a microkernel which is part of XNU. The POSIX portion of the XNU kernel is BSD.

  32. OSX and Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No matter how many years it's been, whenever I hear "OSX" I think Pyramid Technologies. "IMPLing..."

  33. Re:Finder by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

    How do you non directory opus using Windows users get by without tabs and split screen view in your file manager?

    Total Commander.

  34. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    How to get rich writing Windows software:

    1. Throw a dart at your screen to pick any of the pathetically designed built-in applications to make a replacement for.
    2. Write a share/nag-ware version of said app, eg, Total Commander vs. Windows Explorer.
    3. ???
    4. Profit!

  35. BeOS by Bob+Hearn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Left out of that history is the branch that almost happened: for quite a while the smart money was that Apple would buy Be, Inc. and use BeOS as the basis for their future OSes. More than a few developers (myself included) based their business models on this happening.

    1. Re:BeOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I loved GoBe Productive.

  36. Re:Finder by adonoman · · Score: 1

    In XP, hold down either CTRL or SHIFT when you double click on a folder. In Windows 7, right-click on a folder and "Open in new window".

  37. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Command + Up Arrow will open a folders parent.

  38. BeOS was fairly amazing by hessian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am an unabashed Jean-Louis Gassee fan, having used Macs back in the 1980s and at the time wondered why they didn't allow me to use expansion cards like an Apple //, or even expand the memory (early 128K/512K Macs made that rather difficult!).

    When BeOS came out, I was fairly thrilled at the idea, but had no idea how to get my hands on a Be box. A few years later, I got to see BeOS on an Intel box.

    I was at first somewhat nonplussed, because this was a 160mhz 486dx2 style nightmare machine... but the BeOS made the thing haul ass. I have no other way to describe it; windows were snappy, file operations slow, but everything else not only ran quickly but synchronized well between different tasks.

    History may well have delivered us the wrong "hero," and screwed one of the real heroes, because BeOS was amazing -- and light years ahead of Windows NT, and alternate universes ahead of MacOS 7, which you could freeze by holding down the mouse button.

    1. Re:BeOS was fairly amazing by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I remember, in a time when Windows could only do one sound at a time in BeOS I could play back an MP3 7 times with a few seconds delay of each start, and it played without skippin (much, had to tell as it was a jumbled mess). I started it 30 times ones, and the whole computer ground to a crawl, with lots of stutter, but no crash.

      I feel that it was on a 486 66, 16 MB ram, but I could be wrong.

      I actually kept the bootloader longer than BeOS, as it was much more clean than LiLo of the time (switch between Linux and BeOS).

      I actually really liked it's app sorting bar, and draggable title bar too, but better monitors and compositing made those less useful (expose style window switching FTW).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    2. Re:BeOS was fairly amazing by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        What blew my mind the first time I loaded the BeOS (I think it was a Pentium or PII, forgot the specs now, '99?) was the six-sided 3D rotating cube with videos playing in realtime on all six sides...

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    3. Re:BeOS was fairly amazing by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      My mind was blown the first time I loaded the BeOS (on a 66MHz BeBox) by the videos playing on the pages of the book while you flipped them in realtime. That just fried my brain completely. No stutter, no choke. Just videos bending and playing, and playing and bending.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  39. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ahhhhhh man - I was tripped up there for a moment. I couldn't decide which of the many Commander clones was being referenced, but I thought the nag-ware comment was just stupid. After clicking the link - yep, you're right on target! I've been using Gnome Commander for awhile, but it's not exactly my cup of tea. Maybe I should browse around, and see what some of the other clones have to offer in their latest incarnations.

  40. OSX important for me by geoffrobinson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    All I really wanted was an Unix I didn't have to meddle with. So I wasn't interested in Linux (at the time). I just wanted to move away from Windows. That left OSX as the default option for me, and I've been very pleased.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  41. Re:Finder by yincrash · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    No, the worst part of Finder is not being able to navigate it with just the keyboard. Why in the world is the "return" key mapped to "rename file/folder"?

  42. Mac Plus to iMac by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The first Mac I ever played with was a Mac Plus, circa 1986. When I found myself in the market for a computer of my own shortly afterwards I looked at a Mac, but didn't end up buying one. Silly me. My girlfriend at the time needed to buy a computer for her company, and when she saw how blown away I was by an Amiga, she figured if I was impressed by it it had to be good, and that's what she bought. I played with a NeXT cube and was impressed by it, but couldn't begin to even think about buying one. I sent my resume to NeXT and got a nice letter back, but no interview.

    Fast-forward to 1995 and I'm doing Mac development, System 7, in the transition from 68k to Power PC. My development box was a Quadra 650 with a PowerPC daughter board, so I could boot and run it either way. Our first PowerPC compiler didn't support fat binaries, but I had no difficulty figuring out how to use ResEdit to paste in CODE resources from 68k executables to make my own fat binaries. I had fun tracking down some memory management issues, the usual crash when switching back to your app in MultiFinder. Am I showing my age or what?

    A couple of years ago I saw a Mac Mini in a store, thought it was cute (always a good reason to buy a computer!), played with it a bit, was impressed, and bought one. After a couple of years I bought an iMac, which is my current home computer. At work I have all the Linux and Solaris boxes I want, plus an XP box to read email on, but the computer I spend my own money on at home is a Mac.

    ...laura, long time Mac enthusiast and fangirl

    1. Re:Mac Plus to iMac by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      At work I have all the Linux and Solaris boxes I want, plus an XP box to
      read email on

      Are you stuck on Outlook or something? I'm in the same position as you are, with a Linux box and OS X laptop, but I am really glad I don't have a Windows machine nearby.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    2. Re:Mac Plus to iMac by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Why use an entire machine just for mail? Just run what you need inside a virtual machine.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:Mac Plus to iMac by catmistake · · Score: 1

      The first Mac I ever played with was a Mac Plus, circa 1986.

      If you have an iPhone and can jailbreak it, you'll love this Mac Plus emulator, once you figure out (remember) how to make the old disk images, and dust off your old software... works great.

  43. Re:Hello. by froggymana · · Score: 1

    Ubuntu releases always use alliteration. Meaning that the first letters are the same. Amorous Badger therefor would not be an Ubuntu release.

    --
    "To prevent this day from getting any worse, I'll just read ERROR as GOOD THING" 1GJU8xLuDKDxEs4KLf8fAGyptoDsqvEsBT
  44. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because "open" is command-o, of course.

  45. Re:NeXT. Thanks. by StikyPad · · Score: 1

    There's nothing wrong with assuming a certain level of computer literacy in a technical venue (which is at least what Slashdot aspires to be, even if it doesn't always make the grade). There are many times that summaries include ambiguous, niche, and/or nonstandard terminology and acronyms, but this isn't one of them. There was certainly widespread awareness of NeXT OS in the nerd community, despite limited adoption, particularly since it was the birthplace of the web browser.

    That's not to say there's anything wrong with providing your link in the comments section for people who are likewise in the dark, but I don't think the editors should take a hit for not providing one in the summary.

  46. Re:Finder by Graff · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, the worst part of Finder is not being able to navigate it with just the keyboard. Why in the world is the "return" key mapped to "rename file/folder"?

    Because it's not Windows. Ever since the original Macintosh (before Windows came along) the return key renamed a file. It was Windows that changed the meaning of the return key. To open a file under Mac OS you use command-o. That's "o" as in "open".

    Why would anyone assume that return means open? If anything return would mean close, after all it ends a line when you are typing. You learned that return equals open because that's how Windows defined the action, not because it's an intrinsic meaning. Under the Mac OS Finder return means "toggle editing the name", another defined action which at least makes a little sense since return ends the editing just like return on a typewriter ends the current line.

    It makes more sense to have to use a key combo rather than a single key to perform an action which will likely bring you from the Finder to another program. That way it's harder to accidentally hit a key and have 50 windows open up because you had the contents of an entire folder selected. If you hit return with a bunch of selected items in the Mac Finder then nothing happens. It's a ton better than having to deal with the mess of open windows you'll get in Windows.

    You're used to hitting return to open something because you are used to Windows, take some time with Mac OS and you'll find that opening a file with command-o is just as natural as using return. It's all what you are used to.

    Also, you can completely operate the Finder using only the keyboard. In fact, you can operate nearly every aspect of a Mac using only the keyboard. Much of it can be done using keyboard shortcuts built-in to the Finder, however if you want to use some menus, controls, and such using only the keyboard you may have to use the "Universal Access" System Preference Panel to enable some additional keyboard and mouse navigation. If you want to see the keyboard navigation shortcuts then just go to the "Keyboard" System Preference Panel, there's tons of useful shortcuts in there.

  47. I would not bother by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    It's the same story you run into with a lot of Windows boxes - by the time you replace enough of the innards to get it up to snuff, you could have just bought a new one. If it runs Tiger just fine, and you don't mind sticking with stuff that will run on Tiger, the most I would consider doing is a RAM upgrade. But more and more Mac software refuses to run on PPC hardware (including the latest version of the operating system and most of iLife), so my own opinion is that the G4 upgrade is just a waste of money. Bottom line: this box might be a fun way to play around with a Mac, but you might do better by buying a cheap refurb'd Mac Mini of more recent vintage.Tiger is getting pretty long in the tooth (so to speak) these days.

    1. Re:I would not bother by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well I have no desire to sell it or get another, as I said I've never got to play with Mac or PPC arch, which is why I took it. i looked and you can max it out on RAM for less than $50, so that is probably what I'll do. I don't really care that it can't run the latest OSX as long as I get to play with it. And it IS awful purty.

      I do have another question though: Can you use any old PCI graphics card or does it have to be specific to that model? Because looking online all I could find was a 16Mb card for crazy money, but you can pick up cheapo 6200 series PCI all day long. Does OSX have GPU acceleration? would it be worth adding a new GPU, or just keeping the little card it has in it? Like I said I know diddly squat about Apple, but I always wanted a chance to play with a non x86 arch so either way I'll keep her to play with.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    2. Re:I would not bother by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      No, you can't use generic PCI graphics cards on a Mac, you need drivers for it.

    3. Re:I would not bother by .tekrox · · Score: 1

      Actually, The card needs to a have a mac eeprom image - or it just won't work at all. (You can reflash some cards - if alternate firmware is available - and you card has a big enough eeprom (most PC cards don't...)

      Drivers are a non-issue, OSX supports VESA; no it won't be nice and accelerated - but it will work.

    4. Re:I would not bother by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the info. It has a 16Mb ATI card in it, I guess I'll just make due with that. like I said I got it as a freebie and care more about just playing with a non x86 and OSX than I do actually hotrodding or spending serious money on it, so I'll just max it out at 1Gb of RAM and play with Tiger for awhile. Thanks!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  48. Direct link to article by Bruce Horn by bonch · · Score: 1

    Here is a direct link to the article I was referring to detailing their GUI work on the Lisa:

    On Xerox, Apple, and Progress

  49. Re:Finder by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    This is one of those things that make you really wonder about all of the praise heaped upon them over their interfaces...

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  50. Re:Finder by canistel · · Score: 1

    Can't agree with you there... return means a lot more than just "new line". It also means "complete action"; for example, hitting return in the google search box will perform the search and show the results. There may be an argument for taking other actions on hitting enter, but I myself certainly would never choose something so odd as "rename file".

  51. Re:Finder by jbengt · · Score: 1

    for example, hitting return in the google search box will perform the search and show the results.

    Not anymore. Now it's all "instant" as you type. (unless your google leads to porn, where the instant results sometime seems to be supressed)
    I still hit the enter key, though, and wonder why nothing happens.

  52. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it is. IIRC that mapping goes back to 1984. Why is return/enter mapped to "open" in Windows? (Also: "because it is.")

    BTW, command-O does what you want. (Not just in the Finder, it's the universal "open document" shortcut in MacOS.) The Finder is very navigable with just the keyboard, you just have to understand that some of the key shortcuts are different from Windows, and often the choices are made in order to try to keep things more consistent across built-in and 3rd party applications than tends to be the case on Windows.

  53. Re:Hello. by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

    Maybe Amorous Badger is where they'll go once they get past Zygotic Zebra

  54. Re:NeXT. Thanks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "OS"?

  55. Re:Finder by Netshroud · · Score: 1

    Command+Down works as well.

  56. Re:Finder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You forget another more frequently used name for "Return" is "Enter".

  57. Re:Finder by Draek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would anyone assume that return means open?

    Because it had meant "take whatever I wrote, execute it and show me the results" for decades before Macs, and "take whatever I selected, and try to show it to me" is the closest analogue in the graphical world.

    Under the Mac OS Finder return means "toggle editing the name", another defined action which at least makes a little sense since return ends the editing just like return on a typewriter ends the current line.

    Oh no, it really doesn't. The logical jump from "end current line" to "edit selected item's name" is far too large to call it "[making] a little sense", larger still than the aforementioned "execute" -> "open" one which also has the benefit of being an analogy to another kind of computer rather than a whole different (and very much dead and forgotten) class of machines.

    Sorry, but as much as it may pain some of the Apple crowd around here, Microsoft *did* actually go with the saner choice here.

    --
    No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
  58. Re:Finder by Cipher13 · · Score: 1

    While you're right on all points, it must be said that Command-O is hardly a convenient navigation shortcut (though to retain UI consistency, it is a necessity). For efficient keyboard navigation, one would use cmd-downarrow and cmd-uparrow. Your fingers never have to leave the arrow keys.

  59. Re:Finder by beelsebob · · Score: 1

    There's a clear choice here. Either you chose a sensible size that lets you see ~3/4 columns at a time, allowing the view to actually be useful, or you chose to resize columns arbitrarily to show the one single file in the directory that's got an extremely long name, and end up negating all the benefit of the view – essentially changing it into a worse list view.

    You're right, this is one of those things that make you really wonder about all of the praise heaped upon them over their interfaces... because they, unlike most geeks would, made the right choice.

  60. Re:Finder by gyboth · · Score: 1

    The one thing that can't be done with keyboard and that drives me insane is switching to the non-default option in Yes/No boxes. Neither arrow keys, nor Tab works. You have to use the friggin mouse (or touchpad) :@

    --
    Black holes suck.
  61. Re:Finder by Graff · · Score: 2, Informative

    The one thing that can't be done with keyboard and that drives me insane is switching to the non-default option in Yes/No boxes. Neither arrow keys, nor Tab works.

    System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts, at the bottom you'll see Full Keyboard Access, select All Controls

    You can also hit control-F7 to toggle it without going into System Preferences.

    Now tab to the button you want to activate (click) and hit the space bar to activate the button. You can also shift-tab to move backwards in the tab order, which helps because usually the rightmost button is the default active one.

    Some other shortcuts:
    • command-period or the esc key usually activates the "Cancel" button
    • command-d is the "Don't Save" button in file dialogs
    • many times if you hold down the command key then after a second each button will be labeled with its keyboard combination.

    There is a nice summary of various Mac keyboard shortcuts here:
    Mac OS X keyboard shortcuts

  62. Re:Finder by Graff · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The logical jump from "end current line" to "edit selected item's name" is far too large to call it "[making] a little sense", larger still than the aforementioned "execute" -> "open" one which also has the benefit of being an analogy to another kind of computer rather than a whole different (and very much dead and forgotten) class of machines.

    At the time of the Macintosh introduction the typewriter was hardly dead and forgotten, in fact it was still the primary document creation tool for the majority of people and one on which they had been trained their entire lives. Keyboard entry on computers was still a newfangled thing that few people had experience with. For these people the return key meant "end/begin a line to type on", not "execute a sequence of commands". Remember that the intention of the Macintosh and its GUI was to introduce these people to computing through metaphors with common, familiar objects such as files, folders, desktops, and even typewriters! Most of the actions of the GUI were designed with this in mind and, for better or worse, the edit toggling was one of these design choices.

    The logical jump is that return ends the editing. Once you make that jump there's a second logical jump that since return ends the editing maybe it should toggle the editing and thus put both starting the edit and ending the edit on one key rather than two. In Windows I believe it's the F2 key to edit the name and the enter key to end the editing, in Mac OS the return key does both. That's one less shortcut to have to remember, plus it frees up one of the limited number of F-keys for some other shortcut.

    In a command-line environment it makes sense that you should be able to execute a statement with a single key press. You took the time to set up the statement and it's part of a larger sequence so (hopefully) you've put some thought into hitting return. Plus, for the most part, you'll remain in the same window after the execution and not suffer a contextual switch.

    In a graphical environment you generally don't want a single keypress to execute (open) a file since it's probably going to switch your context and you may have many items selected, causing a large number of context switches and clutter. Under a GUI the execute action should be a more complicated action, like a keyboard chord, so that it is most likely a purposeful action, not an accidental one.

    There's also the difference in user expertise, someone using the command-line is most likely a more advanced user than the average GUI user. Immediate execution with a single keypress makes more sense on the command-line than in the GUI because it's a more advanced way of using the computer and an expert should know exactly what effect that keypress will have before they perform it. A GUI user should have more safety nets than a command-line user and keyboard chords protect the GUI user from accidentally executing something.

    In the end it's not a major distinction, both schools of thought have their reasons and merits. Your choice of OS dictates which one you're going to have to get used to.

  63. Re:Finder by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Why would anyone assume that return means open? If anything return would mean close, after all it ends a line when you are typing.

    Return ends a command. I guess you haven't spent much time at a CLI, have you? To those of us who were using computers before the broad acceptance of the GUI, hitting enter is how you make things happen. Also, everyone but Apple will open a file if it is selected and you hit enter, at this point they're just being obstinate.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  64. Re:Finder by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

    Try Gentoo. It's a clone of Directory Opus for *nix using GTK2. Very nice tool, extremely configurable.

  65. Re:Finder by Graff · · Score: 1

    I guess you haven't spent much time at a CLI, have you? To those of us who were using computers before the broad acceptance of the GUI, hitting enter is how you make things happen.

    Ad hominem much? I spent many years working in command line environments before GUI became widely-available. I still stand by my explanation of why Apple made their decision for the return/rename action, They also were pretty much the first ones to do it, the return/open action used in Windows et al. came later.

    Read some more of my responses and if you have anything positive to add to the discussion, please do! If you just want to be cranky and combative then > /dev/null

  66. I find it upsetting... by HasHie · · Score: 0

    I find it upsetting that there is no mention of BSD or other open-source code Apple has integrated into their cr4ppy expensive proprietary products.
    Taking code that a community built for the world to use freely, and then charging up the rear for it, is not cool.
    Taking all the credit for that code, and not thanking the open-source community for all its contributions, or at least admitting to Apple's use of such code (legal theft since the licensing on that code permitted such use) is not cool.

    On a side note...
    Apple makes a terrible product anyway.
    Their hardware is overpriced by at least 300%.
    Their software platform is garbage (have u seen gameplay on a mac).
    Any modern OS is capable of doing what OSx is capable of, but not vice-versa.
    Steve Jobs is a scumbag.
    The typical OSx user is a wannabe hipster, that knows nothing of computers, would bend over gladly and buy an iDildo for 1000$ if Steve Jobs said it was revolutionary, and wouldn't even be able change the battery.

    On a side side note...
    Thank you Steve Jobs for all the laughter.
    Nowadays, when my friends and I are walking down a street, and we see someone using a mac, we yell "MACF4G!!!" and laugh.
    One hundred percent of the time, the "MACF4G" just sits there and takes it.
    LOL