Slashdot Mirror
Ubuntu Won't Moan To EU About Microsoft
Barence writes "The company behind the Ubuntu Linux distro says it has no plans to follow Opera's lead and file a complaint against Microsoft to the EU. Ubuntu 10.10 is the most 'consumer-friendly' version of the Linux distro to date, but it faces an uphill battle against Microsoft's marketing machine. Even high-profile supporter Dell has dropped Ubuntu machines from its website in recent months, while continuing to remind visitors that 'Dell recommends Windows 7' at the top of every PC page. 'I don't think we've ever considered [an EU complaint],' said Steve George, vice president of business development at Canonical. 'The improvements we're making to Ubunutu ... are a better route for us to reach out to users and get a bigger user base.'"
I mean 10.10
It might be slow but it works.
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
Dell may have dropped Ubuntu, but we dropped Dell. Good god are their business offerings ever horrible. We went out of our way to retire any and all Dell hardware with *extreme* prejudice.
Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
It is time for Dell to admit it can't compete against the Chinese. MS tells them to stop shipping Ubuntu and they do. They have no will of their own.
I think they're probably going about it the right way. It's an uphill battle, and we've still got a ways to go, but Linux in general and Ubuntu specifically has been making great strides here.
I particularly like Ubuntu's focus on polish. They don't just crank out apps. They work on themes, fonts, artwork, etc. Things that really make the desktop shine to user who's just taking a test drive. There was a time when a Linux desktop without a TON of work poured into it (and sometimes even after it) was just ugly. Sure it didn't crash, and it was secure, but it looked like it was drawn by programmers - because it WAS back then. Getting UI and artwork people on board helps a lot, and Ubuntu is doing the right thing in that regard.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
'The improvements we're making to Ubunutu ... are a better route for us to reach out to users and get a bigger user base.'
High five for being one organization in this world that recognizes the benefits of positive advertisement rather than negative attack campaigns. It's always better to stay positive. People will like you more.
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
Dell is still shipping PCs with Ubuntu preloaded. You can find them here.
"Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
I don't have much respect for those who unnecessarily bring government and lawyers into every situation.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
The amount spent on a single lawyer would probably pay for 2-3 programmers for the same period of time. Assuming you'd have 5 lawyers, 5 paralegals (1-2 programmers each), their support personnel (secretaries, whatever), and their expenses, you could probably hire 15-20 programmers and their support personnel over the same period of time that the lawyers would spend researching the complaint and drafting corrective proposals (probably a few months, maybe a year depending on any followup). The positive effect of 15-20 well paid and supported programmers on Ubuntu would probably have the same effect on adoption rates through word of mouth as bringing the complaint and giving people the option of choosing the Ubuntu that didn't have their improvements.
Of course, I could be overstating what 15-20 programmers could do. I can promise you, though, I'm not overstating how much attorneys cost...
I use an Ubuntu (Lucid) desktop for work... customized for our organization by our IT department and fully supported. Even though I develop (server-side stuff) for the linux platform, I'd given up on using linux as my main work machine a few years ago. This was done in frustration over the amount of work I had to do to get basic features going wireless (for laptops), web videos, sound, random usb device support etc. I had gone completely over to OSX as the platform of choice. But this current iteration has completely changed my mind. No more virtual-machines-for-coding-and-real -machine-for-everything else lifestyle for me.
Everything "just works" out of the box. Critical updates get auto-pushed (arranged by our IT... thorough our internal apt repo).... desktop/GUI behaviors etc. have been flawless... and I was able to connect my iPhone and upload all my music/photos etc. to the desktop (for more convenient headphone experience while coding). This last one is something that I positively *can not* do on my apple laptop. So in this instance, the Ubuntu desktop added value to an Apple product that another Apple product refused to do. And I was shocked to realize how plug-n-play this whole experience was (after the fact). No hacks, no "install ExperimentWare version 0.31" etc. I plugged in the phone via USB, some windows popped up to ask me what I wanted to do with the photos/music and just did what I asked. Impressive.
Dell has NOT dropped Ubuntu
The story is BS. PC Pro has zero credibility.
> 'The improvements we're making to Ubunutu ... are a better route for us to reach out to users and get a bigger user base.'
In my personal opinion,
- Sun did this.
- Digital did this.
- Netscape did this.
- Amiga did this.
- BeOS did this.
Well, that's the basic idea and the results are now well-known.
I think Michael Dell already knows what to do, he's commented on situations like this in the past:
"In 1997, shortly after Mr. Jobs returned to Apple, the company he helped start in 1976, Dell's founder and chairman, Michael S. Dell, was asked at a technology conference what might be done to fix Apple, then deeply troubled financially. "What would I do?" Mr. Dell said to an audience of several thousand information technology managers. "I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders."" http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/16/technology/16apple.html
If not Canonical, then I think someone needs to press the EU into pushing open standards for software.
In the UK it seems a lot of pressure has been put on the mobile phone and broadband companies to allow users to easily switch between service providers without suffering a huge penalty. The same goes for gas and electric supplies. I'm sure most people would agree this has been hugely beneficial, both for the service provided, and for allowing other businesses into the market.
The main reason for lack of linux uptake amongst my peers, is simply because it isn't compatible with the industry standard - the closed-source .doc .xls and .ppt files. And no, openoffice.org, while good, does not have seemless compatibility, and is useless for such things as collaborating on files due to the slight differences in formatting.
The fact that one also has to pay Microsoft to buy any mainstream laptop is also, surely, anti-competitive. What it means is that no matter what operating system I choose, Microsoft will receive my money, which will no doubt fund a business practice I don't approve of, and an operating system I don't rate.
Thank goodness for open standards such as html, www, email; twitter, facebook, gmail, googlechat protocols etc etc, or else Linux, for the home user, would be almost useless!
Duncan
I wish them success in their attempt to topple (or at least put a serious dent in) Microsoft based purely on technical merit. Unfortunately the landscape is littered with other companies who have tried to do so; it's an uphill battle which typically runs off a cliff at some point. I do think that Canonical is in the best position to do so since IBM with OS/2 back in the day; in fact, IMO Canonical is significantly better positioned than IBM was back then. I've been using Ubuntu as my primary OS (both at home and work!) for a while now, and in spite of the occasional glitches, it has been like a breath of fresh air. The mere thought of going back to Windows gives me nightmares.
Dell, HP and Lenovo don't put up " recommends Windows 7" on each page because they actually do recommend Windows 7. They do it because Microsoft pays them money to do it.
I think it must just be Dell in the EU. Here in the US, you can still configure systems preloaded with Ubuntu.
In fact, I just ran the numbers. Buying a Latitude 13 configured exactly the way I like it, running 9.10 (32bit): $1753.98
Running Windows7 (32bit): $1862.98
I didn't see a way of doing 64bit installs for either option. This also doesn't take into account any of the specials that may be running, or employee discounts, etc.
In this circumstance, the Microsoft tax is $109
Is there such a thing as a group that coordinates actions to push for open-source growth strategies? Several groups might want such a thing, like governments. There was a time when I thought Microsoft was to blame for everything. These days I believe plain ole hard work, funding, partners, coordination, objectives, strategies, etc play a quite big part too.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
I dunno. I can buy a desktop computer with no OS without problems, but try to get a laptop without an OS. Impossible! I think Ubuntu is allowed to complain about that.
-- Cheers!
If you only count the United States and the desktop, the commonly touted market share numbers of Linux is 1-2%. Say there are 200 million desktops actively used in the USA. That means there are between two and four million Linux desktop users in just the United States.
Well, the joke's on them, because 2010 is the year of Linux on the laptop.
While I think you don't deserve the "Troll" mod, I would argue the following with respect to the "Driver License for PC's":
You are required to have a driver's license for motor vehicles, and presumably the amount of testing is much more detailed than a "PC license". Yet the road is still full of idiots. I don't see how a "PC license" would achieve anything, other than an additional revenue stream for a testing agency and more make believe jobs.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Yeah man, the last 15 years have been a blast! Every year it was 'Linux on the desktop' year. Oh! The excitement!
-- Cheers!
It will take nothing less than some serious anti-trust lawsuits to bring the Microsoft OS monopoly into check, because they are so deep-rooted and have so damn much control of the market in so many different ways.. Only to think they are paying large OEMs to quietly "disappear" the option of no OS (i.e., forcing the consumer to choose between their product and the highway) is a frightening demonstration of their power.
Perhaps Canonical is not the right company to initiate the anti-trust investigations, but Google will very likely be. I certainly look forward to the day when I won't need to pay the Microsoft tax every time I buy a laptop.
They use their name to suggest someone else's product that sure seems like a fine line to walk. It clearly means their opinions are for sale. How much would it then cost to get them to say that Bob in accounting is a pedophile?
Yes, their opinions are for sale. They are cashing on their own brand, just like brand ambassadors and other product endorsements. Ironically, it is the tenet of 'free speech' that gives them the right to say what they want - except things like Bob is a pedophile , because that is libel. Unless Bob actually is a pedophile, in which case it is journalism, Wikileaks style.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
And every year, I've run Linux on my desktop. And it *has* been a blast!
I don't care why you're posting AC
microsoft uses EVERY opportunity it has to deter competition, ethical or unethical. if you play nice at this point, despite you have a right for complaint, you will give them a free pass. because, they wont hesitate when they get a chance. eu knows how to deal with microsoft. let them do it.
Read radical news here
I've been running it happily on a HP Elitebook 8440p, when no other Linux distro would even contemplate running on the thing (at least not w/o HP's proprietary drivers for SuSE - wish to frig one could download those). I was hella surprised to see how frickin' smooth everything was - Broadcom Wireless, Intel Graphics chip, etc etc - name it, and it all was up and ready to run by default.
This is honestly the first distro/rev that I've not had to configure anything for, hardware-wise... and I've been mucking about in Linux since ~1996.
The apps have come along enough that I can confidently recommend the whole damned bundle to even the most tech-illiterate members of the family. The artwork is smoother than a prom queen's thighs, and is readily alterable to taste. Hell, even Evolution, with one clicky-install plugin (evolution-mapi) connected to Exchange 2007 servers with only a minimum of effort - calendar, mail, contacts, you name it (though to be honest, it has its moments...)
The one and only thing keeping me from flushing the XP install off of this thing is the VMWare VI Client (which reminds me: Dear VMWare - WTF guys? Would it kill you to make a *nix-based client!?). That said, RDP to a little VM I keep stashed for such tools works pretty much for me.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Ubuntu is a Linux distribution. In what sense is it competing with an entirely different sort of operating system? OS X runs on Intel/AMD and is at least Unix like. Is Ubuntu competing with that too?
The decision of taking the high road by Canonical is the correct way to do business.
And anyway, courts cost time/money.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
You are wrong. They (anti-trust and negative attack campaigns) are NOT the same thing.
It's the year of Linux on your laptop and my laptop but from the experience, I think the general revolution can be called off. I'm guessing it will catch up as computers reach some sort of stagnation point - most people are happy wtih XP, OS X hasn't had anything revolutionary since 2007 (a $30 Snow Leopard doesn't count) - but it won't be this year or next year. In fact with Firefox being chased down by Chrome, OpenOffice trying to regroup as LibreOffice I think 2011 could be a really bad year for open source overall.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Same here. At home for years and years, at work for the last 3 or 4, too. (somewhat contrary to the corporate Microsoft yes men...) I still have to flip back to my Windows Vista (blech) laptop occasionally, but since the Evolution to MS Exchange connector has got much better in the last year or so, it's been less and less that I have to.
Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts.
If Windows doesn't have an X on the front I lose interest.
I am converting my friends and family at a good rate and I have around 20 corp. customers (so far) using Gentoo and pfSense. That's around 40,000 users (my family are single figures before you take the piss).
Dell, HP and Lenovo don't put up " recommends Windows 7" on each page because they actually do recommend Windows 7. They do it because Microsoft pays them money to do it.
They also do it because the Windows PC sells in enormous numbers.
It is worthwhile, for example, for Walmart.com to keep 195 Windows laptops and 106 desktops in stock.
They also do it because of very profitable after-market sales of hardware, software and peripherals. Walmart.com keeps 101 Windows printers in stock. 118 speaker systems. 73 webcams.
That's a bit cynical. Maybe they recommend Windows 7 because it offers an industry beating Low Total Cost of Ownership and compatibility with leading Enterprise applications. Also It Just Works.
Plus Windows is the only OS covered by Microsoft's Patent Promise.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Non-aggressive strategies tend to be mutually beneficial. Hence the meaning behind ubuntu being put into action,
I ran Linux for 10 years or so before switching to the Mac, and I've never looked back. Even with user-friendly distros like Ubuntu back then there were just too many little things that are very simple on a commercial system that took a lot of fiddling on Linux, and I had enough of it. But when Apple decides to start an app store for the Mac I will be back to Linux in just about a millisecond or so. Apple is getting more and more on my nerves with their stranglehold practices. The Mac has been in relatively quiet waters until now, but I'm afraid that with the next radically new versions that will change.
-- Cheers!
All I gotta say is kudos to Ubuntu. When presented with 2 choices, bashing a competitor by whining to the authorities or improving their product, they chose to focus on improving their product.
Far too many companies focus on the legal and whining methods of beating their competitors down that they don't have the focus to work on actually improving their products.
Ubuntu just moved up a notch in my view.
The preload it with Ubuntu 9.04. You have to be insane to use an OS which is an year and a half old. If anything, they should have gone for 10.10 Lucid, which is an LTS release.
Any other articles on stuff that isn't happening?
Apart from every techie worth his/her salt hating Dell, which I wholeheartedly second, I'm not surprised they or anyone else for that matter drops Ubuntu. I'm a proponent of FOSS and *NIX; I'm an IT manager and all of my servers run Linux or BSD or Solaris and I've tried Ubuntu 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 at home. 10 is the worst pile of dung. It won't install in good, working (admittedly old) consumer motherboards like Gigabyte 8IK*/8IP*, just because of the stupid boot code. It keeps rebooting at early stages where Ubuntu 7 & 8 worked well and at least installed without problems. I've also tried long-time an installation of Ubuntu at my home. I know how to use a computer but what I have to say out of experience is that Windows has *always* lasted longer than Ubuntu. My 2 years old Ubuntu installation started doing weird things after a month-long vacation. Suddenly I had to login twice, it didn't mount /home over NFS half the time (from a Solaris NFS server, not any shitty linux NFS implementation) and it was generally slow. In the end, something was pegging the processor at 100% which didn't show in top. I uninstalled it and went back to Windows 2k3.
If I didn't have Linux 2.4 and 2.6 hand-configured kernels that have been working for 12 years (2.4 series of course) without a single failure or unexplainable behavior I wouldn't know better, but I know Linux works. What don't are the high amounts of shit Ubuntu is spewing trying to be friendly and window-y so we can have our FOSS balls against the Apple balls and the Microsoft balls, and frankly, we are losing. Big. The desktop is NOT Linux territory and will not be for the foreseeable future. Don't even think about drop-in replacing Office with whatever open suite of 'productivity' software. I've tried them all, they work for simple letters, they miserly crash for complicated documents. They don't even get importing MS stuff right. Do you really believe that companies who have literally thousands of complex MS documents are going to switch, just for the sake of it, going through their files, opening every one of them and reformatting so it looks good again? Sure, in Linux la-la land.
We all love to hate Microsoft (for good reason I'd add) but their crap install everywhere and is totally backwards compatible. Anyone can run, say, Leisure Suit Larry in Vista. Conversely, you can argue Apple has always dropped backwards compat and gets away with it, but MacOS and Ubuntu just don't even begin to compare.
Ubuntu can compete neither with Windows nor with MacOS. Face it, Ubuntu is a joke and will be as long as it tries to be like MacOS withot innovation or like Windows reliability.
So if Canonical paid manufacturers to put "Supports Ubuntu" or other marketing material on each page (because it's simply that - marketing), would you consider that a "bribe" as well? Or is it just a bribe if it's Microsoft? Fucking hell.
Welcome to "The Beginner's Guide to Capitalism".
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I find this post quite offensive to our legal order. You cannot say that reporting an antitrust incident is "moaning"
Hey, you're right. At least in my house; I wiped Windows from the netbook I bought in April, and have thumb drive with kubuntu taking the place of a broken hard drive in the old IBM Thinkpad.
2003 was the year of Linux on the desktop. At my house, anyway. 2010 is the year of "no microsoft at all", first time that's happened at my place. Now if they'd get rid of MS at work...
MS is an apt name for the company that writes Windows. MS, besides meaning "MicroSoft", also means "multiple sclerosis".
Hmmm, maybe MS is aptly named... Windows does to your computer what multiple sclerosis does to its sufferers.
Free Martian Whores!
In fact with Firefox being chased down by Chrome, OpenOffice trying to regroup as LibreOffice I think 2011 could be a really bad year for open source overall.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the guts of Chrome (Chromium) open source?
If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
Parent is marked as troll, but, despite his bad attitude, he makes something of a valid point: In order to attract more linux users, we need more 'only on linux' features. The one I always tell people about is package management. Once I show people (especially non geeks), how easy it is to find and install new programs and games (Just like their iPhone!), they really see the appeal. UbuntuStudio is another great example- look: you can have an entire graphics suite! However, its not quite enough. Linux needs to find/create things that it can do and others cannot- and then advertise those things.
So few companies have the foresight to turn away from the urge to spend too much of their resources on marketing, this is doubley important when dealing with the bloated, Wizard-of-Oz-like machinations of Microsoft, which seem less and less fathomable [seriously] by the week.
Canonical putting that effort and those resources toward the maturity and refinement of their core product just speaks to some really sound thinking on their part. I mean, honestly, they may not even win the fight; many a valiant hero has been slain by vain, syphalitically mad, emporers and kings in the throes of their criminal excesses.
Still, I think it's a very smart move...
Huzzah, Ubuntu Huzzah!
You can't count web stats, because the user-agent can and often is spoofed.
I hear this argument repeated over and over again - and I simply don't believe it.
It demands that a statistically significant number of users know what a user agent is, how to change it and keep it readable, and have a sensible, intelligible, reason for doing so.
It doesn't tell me why Opera and the Mozilla Foundation are paying Net Applications for their fine-grained unpublished stats.