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Steve Jobs Lashes Out At Android
Ponca City writes "Steve Jobs doesn't usually make a guest appearance on Apple's post-earnings conference calls with analysts, but this time he made an exception, attacking Google for marketing its operating system as 'open' versus Apple's 'closed' iOS. 'Google loves to characterize Android as "open" and iOS and iPhone as "closed." We find this a bit disingenuous, and clouding the real difference between our two approaches,' said Jobs. 'Android is very fragmented. Many Android [manufacturers], including the two largest, HTC and Motorola, install proprietary user interfaces to differentiate themselves from the commodity Android experience. The user's left to figure it out. Compare this to iPhone, where every handset works the same.' Jobs stated that the real debate is between 'fragmented versus integrated' and which is better for the consumer. 'When selling to users who want their devices to just work, we believe integrated will trump fragmented every time. And we also think our developers can be more innovative if they can target a singular platform rather than a hundred variants.' Jobs also criticized the Android Marketplace, pointing out that there are at least three other app stores being launched by vendors, causing confusion for users and work for developers. 'This is gonna be a mess for both users and developers,' Jobs said. 'Contrast this with Apple's integrated App Store, which offers users the easiest-to-use, largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone.'"
I hear it's so much better when someone else adjusts all the straps for you.
the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"
The best part is Andy Rubin started as an engineer at Apple in 1989.
My work here is dung.
Didn't Dodsworth from Tweetdeck say that he had only two guys on the Android port, and fragmentation wasn't really an issue?
Jailbreak your iPhone and install what you want.
Re-Rom your Android and install what you want.
What's the difference?
iStuff just works until you want to do something Steve hasn't pre-approved. At which point it just doesn't work.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
"When selling to users who want their devices to just work, we believe integrated will trump fragmented every time. And we also think our developers can be more innovative if they can target a singular platform rather than a hundred variants."
Integrated vs fragmented. He's just trying to redefine the terms in his favor.
Open > Closed
vs
Integrated > Fragmented
Well done Steve.
Honestly, most of the "problems" with Android I actually consider to be strengths. Now the "fragmented" argument, yes, I can see where that can hurt in the long run, but then again, PC's are quite fragmented yet which has a larger hold after all these years, Apple or PC?
I refuse to use Android or iOS.
I didn't think either was an option on your Bakelite rotary dial phone.
Trolling is a art,
Tired all of those choices that TWO things can offer? Confused by those floaty things that enter your vision and then move away when you try to focus on them? Scared by things that don't outright hug you?
Then you should buy Apple!
Apple... for when thinking takes too much thought.
Yeah, right. iOS is about as fragmented as Android is. And the people I've talked to with iPhones older than version 4 are having real troubled with the latest version of iOS on their iPhone 3* phones - majorly slow is what I've heard.
While there is _some_ truth to Android not being as open as Google would lay claim to, it's certainly more open than iOS is, and when it comes t getting an app out, Android is the platform benchmark for letting anyone release an app. Apple's a joke in this area. I don't know how app distribution works on Blackberry/Windows Phone platforms, though.
You can not only release your own app on your own website, you can actually open your own Android app MARKETPLACE. Sorry, but that's a level of openness Apple can't and won't compete with.
No that's not what he was trying to say. He was trying to say, my shit is better than yours.
did you forget to take your meds?
I'm surprised fragmentation is his choice of argument against Android. There are several things iOS does better than Android, but it's getting harder and harder to develop for iOS because of fragmentation. Hell, it used to be called iPhone OS, not iOS, but now you have to make sure your code works on previous generation iPhones, the 4's retina display, the iPad, and the iPod Touch. Resolution differences, support for multitasking, and camera differences are all getting more difficult to manage!
'Changing the subject'.
"Folks have been saying your platform seems a bit proprietary and closed."
"Hey, how about them White Sox?"
"Your platform might be proprietary and closed."
"Yeah, well so is your mother!"
"Your platform is proprietary and closed."
"Oh yeah? Well, you just must not like having a good experience with your phone."
The problem is that all the more reasonable responses might paint them into a corner where they have to offer an option for a sandbox for a more open use of their platform - and their strategy precludes that as an option. So, like with elections where offering a valid option to voters is too risky (to your various monied interests), insulting the other option becomes the rule of the day.
Ryan Fenton
Yes, because people have proven that having more than one drug store, supermarket, or fast food chain inevitably disorients them and fouls up their lives. Oh, wait.
I really do like my Apple products, but not for the reasons Jobs pushes; more like in spite of his ideas. I'd love another store, particularly one where Jobs Judeo-Christian mores aren't pushed upon me; or, conversely, if Apple's store stopped insisting that apps have to work they way they think they should, or that apps "can't duplicate functionality." I'm hugely fond my my iPad, but the idea that it would be less useful to me if there were more than one app store available to me... that's just wrong.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
For now, iOS lets me do what I need to do without getting in the way or making me find the right libraries or compile anything.
Honestly, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I have never had to reinstall an app other than during an update for that app. When my DROID updated Android, everything came back up. I have developed Android applications, the SDK is a just a zip that works in Linux, Windows even Mac. And you just unzip it and use the emulator and SDK that comes with it. Awhile ago, I tried to code iPhone apps but given that I don't have a Mac -- no luck!
When I spend time compiling software for the iOS, I want it to do something new and perhaps make some money while doing it.
Wow. Then perhaps you'd like to discuss the fees you had to pay in order to develop something for the iPhone? Are you enrolled in the iOS developer program? I put together the machine I develop on and it was quite inexpensive. And if I wanted to distribute my apps on Android Market I'm not aware of any fee or approval BS that comes with Apple's market. Do some reading:
To run an application on the iPhone, the application needs to be signed. This signed certificate is only granted by Apple after the developer has first developed the software through either the US$99/year Standard package or the US$299/year Enterprise package with the iPhone SDK.
Good luck "making a bit of money" when you're already negative from the get go!
... I read your blog so I know you're not stupid.
Really, your comment reads like something written by someone who is confusing the customer with the developer and has never tried coding an Android app. You're correct that git and make don't mean anything to a customer but it does if you consider that developers have to embrace the platform before the customer has an apps to use!
Short run: make your money on iPhone. Long run: Android wins out. Trust me on this one.
I can't tell if you're confused or trolling
My work here is dung.
Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.
He's scared of Android.
He's scared of open platforms.
His choice of words "fragmented" and "Integrated" are cleverly chosen word associations that he hopes sway you.
Funny that he took the complete opposite stance on Flash. He claimed it was "Closed" and dead... and would not be allowed on the iPhone... which here he admits is closed itself... or in his clever wording "Integrated".
Jobs... You're a businessman.... but your not honest.
Android tends to be more popular with really geeky folks while the iPhone tends to be more popular with people that want their experience ready to go out of the box.
I have both, so let's see.
Android phone: turn on, type in Google account name and password (old or new), and everything works and stays in sync.
iPhone: turn on, and... then it gets complicated. You definitely need a desktop at some point, but then you have to decide... Do you want to sync with Google? That's complicated, you need to set up mail and an Exchange account. Do you sync with your desktop? On Mac, it sort-of syncs with the built-in applications (but not much else). On Windows, it supposedly syncs with Outlook. If you use both a desktop and a laptop, things get even more complicated.
Seems pretty clear which is better for "people who want their experience ready to go out of the box": get an Android phone and use Google's online apps. Apple's ecosystem is a complicated mess in comparison.
Jobs never does stuff like this. He is very worried. He must have gotten a peak the latest Android growth figures. It's not slowing or even staying the same, it's exploding at a rate Apple can't match on several fronts. Manufacturing alone has to be the biggest worry. They just can't match the output of HTC, Samsung, and Motorola who are all spitting them out as fast as they can. That doesn't even scratch the surface. With all these smartphones coming out, you are going to be able to buy them for next to nothing or even get them free. Apple doesn't want any part of that, but it's coming.
A "reasoned response" would be "We at Apple feel like the users get a better experience when we have full control over what you can and can't do with a device. Since most people are idiots, the average user is happier when we make decisions for them. True freedom results in a worse experience, so we don't believe in freedom." At least that would be intellectually honest.
Thats a reasoned response, but certainly not an intellectually honest one.
Apple is playing gatekeeper because Apple is protecting its other interests. You paid half a grand for that iPhone, but thats not enough. They also want to nickel and dime you on the content you consume. Sure, there are some free apps, and some free music, and some free videos.. but you are still in their store getting it.
"His name was James Damore."
Yup....
Steve Jobs is sucking too much mirror these days. iTunes synching experience = nightmare, nightmare, nightmare.
Add in the 50 dropped calls I had this past week. And the result is my iPhone is barely working as a phone.
That's crap.
If you buy an Android phone you get a good, straightforward user experience without having to do any kind of hacking on it. You have an easy to use app market with lots of apps which is loosely monitored to make sure it doesn't have malware (without having draconian yet poorly defined rules about what's acceptable and what's not). It comes with some apps that almost everyone is going to want, and has a simple mechanism for finding more apps to fit your needs. The experience you get with an out of the box Android phone is similar to what you get with an out of the box iPhone.
If you're happy with that experience, you're in good shape. There's nothing else you need to do. With iOS, if you're unhappy with that experience you're pretty much out of luck. With Android, the operating system will step out of your way. You have the opportunity to screw things up, but you also have the ability to do things the phone manufacturer never imagined (or perhaps, doesn't approve of).
I don't buy the argument that additional freedom is a bad thing.
If you use both a desktop and a laptop, things get even more complicated.
One thing that totally pulled me off the whole "iOS experience" is when I configured my newly purchased iPad using my netbook, and synced up some stuff (e.g. books) with it that way.
Side note - why I can't just drag & drop books onto it, and have to go around by first importing them into iTunes and then force-syncing them, is beyond me, but whatever...
Now I plug iPad into my desktop PC, and it tells me to GTFO because it's already set up to sync with a different computer. Apparently, I can change it to sync with the desktop, but doing so will delete all books I've previously synced from the netbook. What the fuck?
Overall, the whole scheme with iTunes seems very convoluted, and not just to me - my mother, for whom that iPad was actually bought, also finds it counter-intuitive, and she's very much an inexperienced user when it comes to anything related to computers. Still, she readily understood the concept of dragging documents to and from a USB stick with a mouse, and was thoroughly confused by the fact that she can't do the same with iPad (and that it doesn't even appear under "Computer" in the same way her music player and camera do).
Android: I did a factory wipe of my phone. Android automatically downloaded my phones settings, extensive contact list etc from my Google account, including re-downloading apps from the market. My photos, videos were untouched on the SD card and automatically picked up by the gallery app. If I lost my cellphone I could equally recover all my personal data. Thank you Google for
iPhone: My friend did a full reset of his iPhone, it prompted him "Do you want to back up your iPhone?" he did this. While it backed up his settings. It did not back up his Apps nor his thousands of photos from recent holidays. Needless to say he was distraught and a bit like "So tell me about this Android thing?". Apple gets alot right, but gets other things catastrophically wrong.
Frankly I have heard so many stories like this and I've never had a single problem with my Android phones. In situations like this it's saved my bacon by respecting my data, and the completely painless syncing to Google is a delight. Every non-geek I know who's bought an Android is utterly happy.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Jobs was only trying to change the subject here. The subject was open vs. non-open platform. Jobs quickly turned the conversation to "Android is very fragmented", which does not speak about the topic of open vs. closed. It really shows how scared he is of Android, because he can't talk his way out of the fact that the iPhone is one of the most heavily restricted software/hardware platforms in the world. The conversation isn't really about 'fragmented vs. integrated' - users don't care, but they do care when they can't run software they want to run, and that is where Jobs is trying to change the subject.
> Android is very fragmented
I have a droid and i really don't care how fragmented the android market is. I got to pick the phone i liked. and *my* droid - the single instance of the phone - is not fragmented. it works the same every day of the week. so, as a user, i don't really care how fragmented the market is. as a developer i do care - but Jobs, trying to frame it as something a user would care - "every phone works the same" - how is that a benefit for a user?