Slashdot Mirror
Russia To Help NATO Build Anti-Missile Network
Hugh Pickens writes "The Washington Post reports that Russia has agreed to cooperate with NATO on erecting a US-planned anti-missile network in Europe protecting the continent against possible ballistic missile attacks from Iran or elsewhere. The anti-missile coverage would be anchored by a US land- and sea-based deployment, reconfigured by Obama from earlier plans devised under the Bush administration. The new idea would be to link individual national missile defenses into the US network and place them all under a NATO command and control center with authority to respond to an attack. 'We see Russia as a partner, not an adversary,' says President Obama, hailing the NATO-Russian accord. President Dmitri Medvedev warned that Russia's cooperation must be 'a full-fledged strategic partnership between Russia and NATO' and not just a nod in Moscow's direction to spare Russian feelings while Europe tends to its own defenses in tandem with the United States."
Quite ironic to help against themselves. If there was no actual "enemy" no missile barrier should be needed at all.
Russia just wants to know the implementation details so they can determine the vulnerabilities of the system.
If Russia develops a missile shield, what is to stop them from attacking with impunity? We must act first!
Not At The Office
Needs Americans To Operate
Not After Two O’clock
No Action Talk Only
That response by Russia should have raised suspicions about the Kremlin's actually sabotaging the design of the missile system. After all, if the Kremlin is not committed to using the system, why would the Kremlin bother to ensure that the system can actually work?
Worse, "President" Medvedev has accused the Europeans of using the shield to neutralize Russian nuclear missiles. If the Kremlin were a true supporter of NATO, why would the Russian "president" still present Russia as an adversary of the West?
We couldn't blast Europe; we can't find it on a map.
Eventually you'll own the land, thin your own herd, scare Europe into thinking you're the good guy and let you take over. You won't be able to handle all the logistics so you'll need to deputize a huge amount of private corporations to "act" as the gov't. They can do your bidding and take the fall. You just sit back and enjoy. If you're lucky Rupurt Murdock will cut you in for a slice of the Newscorp profits too!
I hope the designers of this system know what they are doing. A very obvious design goal would be to make it so that a computer virus loaded in one country couldn't shut down the ballistic missile defenses of another. After all, if one country writes most of the software they could easily insert back doors to allow them to shut down any node of the system at will.
Heck, this system will uses lots of RF antennas for input (such as the tracking radars)...a good back door could be triggered remotely, so long as you were running the same firmware revision as before. So even if you cut the cables linking the control centers together, one country could still remotely disable the defenses of another.
yes, well, that's because you're retarded.
So, all the individual nations' missile defense systems will now be linked into a single network? Have these leaders read the news about 'cyber' warfare and how it's starting to pick up? It would seem that creating an electronic pathway from other nations should raise concern for the security of one's own defenses. Prior to a physical attack, it would be convenient to knock out the missile defenses of your adversary and this network now provides that conduit...
they spelled China as 'elsewhere'.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
If this will be as useful as the international space station.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
"If the Kremlin were a true supporter of NATO, why would the Russian "president" still present Russia as an adversary of the West?"
Precisely, the Kremlin believes that they need a credible foreign threat to keep themselves in power. Truly cooperating with the West would remove that and they'd be left with defending their regime using the same yardsticks as democratic regimes.
Because everybody knows it is really Vladmir Putin who runs Russia, and is Prime Minister to get around the consecutive term limits, and will run again for the Presidency, and win after Medvedev's term is up...
Check his other comments and submissions, he appears to be on a mission.
Everybody knows no such thing, but some pretend that they do.
'Evil men have no songs.' How is it that the Russians have songs?
and because they want to know how it works and make sure the US system is connected so when they send a worm down the line, it takes everyone out of the loop. Putin still scares me and seems like he's too much like a James Bond villain than anyone out to do his people any good.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Pakistan will be running on US funds for the foreseeable future and will be no threat to anyone but itself.
Terrorists use bombs, not intercontinental ballistic missiles.
Worse, "President" Medvedev has accused the Europeans of using the shield to neutralize Russian nuclear missiles. If the Kremlin were a true supporter of NATO, why would the Russian "president" still present Russia as an adversary of the West?
Why not? They benefit from having it both ways. By contributing to the system, they gain access to valuable technology. And by being very standoffish about it, they'll be in a position to leverage bribes and other income off of even a basic working missile defense system.
They could like, try to claim that the separatist Chechens have nukes
because the world has a population problem. Somehow, by some evil logic, it makes way more sense to create weapons than to save the poor and starving only to have twice their numbers needing to be saved in 20 years time.
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
You push button and missile goes correctly. If some missile don't go correctly you shoot more missile.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
There are no missile threats from Iran or any where else, this is military contractors making deals and the rest of the humans being to stupid to care or notice.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Obama is an appeaser in the Neville Chamberlain mold.
There's an important distinction: Chamberlain loved his country. Obama loves the world.
wrong, no population problem but we only have resource distribution problem, which would mostly have been solved by investing the trillion or ten trillion we spend on war and war-mongering.
No shortage of energy on this world, nor sufficient land to grow food. No shortage of water that can be turned to fresh water by the simplest application of the abundant energy this world receives.
We have shortage of will to get off petro-dollar cartel and shortage of will to invest in condition of humans that would have wealth-growing benefits to all.
Just bailing out our failed finance/banking cartel took the amount of wealth that could have paved the deserts over with existing solar tech sufficient to power the north and central americas.
Earth to you, it the U.S. that is the biggest occupier and war-monger-for profit on the planet. It is the U.S. who occupies Japan and many other nations we use as bases to project power globally (which neither Russia nor China do)
'Evil men have no songs.' How is it that the Russians have songs?
Simple. Not all Russians are evil. But some are.
Of course, you can say that about anyone.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Because since they cut the old program Orbital Sciences has had to lay off something like a third of its employees, and the layoffs continue just about every week.
Obama is an appeaser in the Neville Chamberlain mold.
There's an important distinction: Chamberlain loved his country. Obama loves the world.
Obama has one thing in common with all megalomaniacs: he loves himself. But that's no surprise: it's a requirement for anyone seeking that particular position.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Earth back to you. The U.S. is losing money from fighting these wars, not making it. And we inject a massive amount of money into the local economies wherever we have a base, and happily restrict the military members stationed on the base from leaving their barracks the second the locals want us to. (Source for that last point: I wasn't allowed off base in Spain because some moron fought a local months before I got there.)
You are totally correct. If the Russians actually get any technical access to this missile-defense system, its value drops tremendously.
The President needs to ask himself, what actually changed in 1991? The Russians lost a little territory on the western frontier and some allies in the same area. They were temporarily weakened a bit. As far as I can tell, nothing else actually changed, except the intelligence services replaced the CPSU as the governing instrument.
Well, Russia still occupies parts of East Prussia and japanese islands. The Russians are fine.
US corporate communism means the corporations steal from the people and control both parties.
We the people of the U.S. are losing money, yes. However, the banking cartel and military-industrial complex, with our lawmakers in their pockets, are not losing money.
Earth to amightywind. Don't forget to take your medication.
A useful idiot. Do you think Japan chaffs about Okinawa with Russia occupying the Kurils and China encroaching the the S. China Sea?
an ill wind that blows no good
That response by Russia should have raised suspicions about the Kremlin's actually sabotaging the design of the missile system. After all, if the Kremlin is not committed to using the system, why would the Kremlin bother to ensure that the system can actually work?
Obviously Russia would welcome the opportunity to study state of the art western missile defense systems without resorting to the fickle world of spies and informants. What better way to determine the capabilities of the system, and thus its weaknesses, than to assist in the deployment of them? Also, if they know where the systems are, they can neutralize them much more easily.
It should be obvious why Russia is involved. Perhaps there is more to this story, though - what about the possibility that this is a dog and pony show to deceive Russia and lead them on?
I kind of doubt it, though. Our last 3 presidents have given big gifts to our adversaries. Clinton with his million dollar backers in China, who got the miniaturized nuke tech, Bush's gracious gift of a Boeing E-3, and now Obama's gift of nuclear missile defense technology. I think this is all a big game to keep defense spending going. As the adversaries are always in possession of our latest technology, we have to keep throwing money at defense firms to advance the state of the art. Rinse and repeat.
She's this hot blonde in a red dress. Dr. Baltar at NATO will love working with her.
There's an old urban legend - dating back to 90s - that Chechens have "backpack nukes" which they have already smuggled into large Russian citizens and wired up. Presumably when they feel things really are bad, they'll push the red button. So nothing new there.
In practice, given the modus operandi of Russian government in the Chechen wars, a more likely approach would be to give the Islamists nukes for real.
The President needs to ask himself, what actually changed in 1991? The Russians lost a little territory on the western frontier and some allies in the same area. They were temporarily weakened a bit. As far as I can tell, nothing else actually changed
Uhh, I don't even know where to begin here.
A "little territory"? Relative to Soviet Union, Russia has lost 30% of its territory, and over half of population.
Weakened "a bit"? Have you looked at the Russian economy lately (and ever since Gorbachev's reforms)? Do you realize that everything that Russian military is armed with today was designed and developed in the USSR, with very few exceptions that are usually produced in minuscule quantities? That its manpower comes primarily from conscripts, the majority of which barely pass the physical and mental health checks (which are by themselves laughable compared to the same in developed countries), and which get very little combat training?
"Temporary"? Well, probably it will change for better eventually - maybe in a decade, maybe in a century - but for now it's still fucked up big time.
Oh yes, what else changed. Well for starters it's a capitalist economy now, you know? Not particularly free politically - more China-style - but very much capitalist.
It protects the Russian, US and EU's military industrial complex from a lack of hi tech jobs and cash flow issues over the next generation.
Iran will be pushed into more revolutions via NGO's, twitter again.
Israel is well protected via its own efforts and what it can buy/find/collect on the world market.
If anyone wanted to use a missile, buy one that works or if thats too expensive, use the cash in emerging non missile areas.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
When you have treaty obligations such as freeing your money by 2004 and you do not do so, then you have indicated that you are in a cold war.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
We Occupy Japan? Seriously?
Hey, I am ALL FOR US pulling out of Japan and South Korea. Of course, japan, south korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and even India would oppose that To be honest, it was nearly ALL of asian gov. that BEGGED USA to join in the Asian pact. In fact, when the last Japanese leaders wanted us off of Okinawa, we started to explore pulling out of Japan, then the populace voted out those leaders, and voted in some that would keep America in Japan.
Think that it might have something to do with local spending as well as all of the missiles, new nuclear powered boomers and attack subs, and even the recently restarted nuclear warhead manufacturing line that China has. And as to global projection, both Russia and CHina now have nuclear subs parked at Venezuela, and CHina just asked to park boomers/attack subs at Cuba.
But hey, if you think that China is all that, please, please, please, move there if you are not there. You might also try Iran, Eastern Pakistan or Somalia.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Sure there a threats -- but the US spends more money on threats then the rest of the world combined. Somebody is being taken for a ride -- that would be the US tax-payer.
Surely there is a more cost-effective way to address threats, in the same way that you don't need to build an interstate highway for two or three cars. The US military is gratuitously over-expensive. There is no need to spend so much money.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Actually, compared to China, Russia is a LOT freer. It is possible to vote another party in there.
Well, yes, you get exactly two notable parties to vote - Putin's one, and communists. Everything else are fake single issue parties which either officially support Putin in anything and everything. Any real opposition party or figure other than the commies is denied participation in the elections on various legal reasons (the favorite one is to declare most signatures in support of the candidate as fake).
Then also there's the issue of counting the votes, and don't even get me started there. According to official electoral rolls, in some regions, in the last election we had 100% of voters come to vote, and every single one of them voted for Putin's party. Heck, in some places they had more people vote than were registered on the rolls (103% in one particular spot, IIRC).
I'll give you that Russia is more free than China with respect to freedom of speech. The laws are much less blunt in that regard than Chinese ones, and so the government has to exercise some creativity when applying them to silence open dissent. Because of that, the threshold of what they're willing to tolerate is somewhat higher, though that also varies from region to region (you'd better not publish anything criticizing Kadyrov or Putin in Chechnya!).
Lots of songs in North Korea...
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Everybody, meaning you? Yes, the PM does technically run the country, but president is so much powerful... Power in Russia changes hands very slowly. Putin got to his full power as a president only after a few years(reducing the remnants of Yeltsin's era)... Medvedev will acquire that power also, so it looks less and less likely for Putin to make a comeback.
Ignoring that will bring Europe the Darwin Award.
Resource distribution only short-term, when taking large amounts of energy and land from the past (stored in fossil fuels) or the future (spoiling the surroundings). We are above this 2.1, on average
One that hath name thou can not otter
It's really curious in Poland in this regard - Russia is this old, sleazy entity not to be trusted. Somehow nobody mentions how we're the only ones who held Moscow/Kremlin for a few years. And of course popular understanding of partitions in XIX century omits how, on the Russian part, they were almost a personal union - until hardline feudal separatists frakked things up.
(but it wasn't merely scorched earth in WW2, not close)
One that hath name thou can not otter
Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.
One that hath name thou can not otter
Russia is the only place with fully operational nuclear missile defense technology...
One that hath name thou can not otter
Yeah, and he is far from supportive of this deal. Curious how this Russia running ends up...
One that hath name thou can not otter
Us here in Poland think the previous show with missile shield was moronic.
One that hath name thou can not otter
When their carriers will show up in the Gulf of Mexico, we should be only happy how other powers are following our example.
One that hath name thou can not otter
It's not East Prussia, it's Kaliningrad Oblast (also Warmian-Masurian Voivodeship; elsewhere - West Pomeranian, Lubusz, Silesian and Opole ones; elsewhere again - Kresy)
FFS, don't meddle with sanctity of European borders after WW2, we don't need this shit (oh right, Kosovo; too late...)
One that hath name thou can not otter
Actually we have the Patriot missile and the Patriot II which have been operational for almost two decades now. They are designed to target tactical or cruise missiles (whether or not the warhead is nuclear doesn't matter).
What's the name of the Russian system? When was it successfully battle tested?
Well, you can always convince yourself that tactical systems such as Patriots are an equivalent to (briefly deployed) Safeguard Program. Or currently deployed Russian A-135 (and A-35 previously)
One that hath name thou can not otter