TSA Saw My Junk, Missed Razor Blades, Says Adam Savage

An anonymous reader writes "The TSA isn't the most respected of governmental agencies right now, but at least it comes by the poor reputation honestly. The lack of standards, inconsistent application of searches and policies, and occasional rude agent all combine to make flying an unpleasant experience. It's often derided as 'security theater,' which describes the experience of Mythbuster Adam Savage before a recent flight. Savage was put through the full-body scanner, and while he joked that it made his penis feel small, no one seemed to notice the items he was carrying on his person. The video tells the rest of the story."

Comments

TSA Security Theater

[illumastorm]

Next, on TSA Security Theater we have the story of the man who manages to bring 12 inch razor blades through security checks. Coming up... Savage Blades.

Re:TSA Security Theater

[LynnwoodRooster]

Even better, I just got back from Shanghai. I got bumped to business class from Tokyo to PDX, and dinner was sirloin steak. Complete with steak knife with a 5" serrated blade, a 9" total length metal butter knife, and a full-size metal dinner fork. Just given to me for sitting in the front section.

.
Who needs to smuggle on your own knife; buy a first class or business class ticket and get a nice, sharp, big knife given to you!

Re:TSA Security Theater

[flyingkillerrobots]

El-Al (Israel) gives knives to everyone, not just first class. They've been making fun of the other airlines about it for years. If everybody has knives, then a terrorist with a knife is no more dangerous than he'd be on the ground, assuming the knife cannot be used to somehow quickly down the plane.

Re:TSA Security Theater

[MoonBuggy]

You don't even need to be up at the front - as I've said many times, until they stop allowing glass on planes (and even the lowly economy customers are trusted with that) I won't believe for a second that they're particularly concerned about blades.

Not that I'm saying they should be concerned about blades; the threat from terrorism of any kind (in the US, at least) is minimal, and any hijacker nowadays would be taken out by 150 pissed off passengers before they could get anywhere near commandeering the aircraft anyway.

What I object to is the classic security theatre, pretending there's a threat and then pretending to fix it. At least if they were honest and actually did prevent any possible attack vector, it would be so onerous that it might finally provoke some kind of sizeable backlash against the whole pointless process.

Re:TSA Security Theater

[InlawBiker]

You don't really need a weapon at all. Just turn on any electrical device that gives off an RF signal while the plane ascends. Then watch that fucker go up in a firey fireball of death!

Re:TSA Security Theater

[camperdave]

ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.

Whenever I see your sig I want to change it to:
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented using a web camera.

Re:TSA Security Theater

[Vectormatic]

i have an interesting story on those water bottles, back in 2007 i went to India, flying from Schiphol (Amsterdam airport, the netherlands). On the first flight i was not allowed any liquids over a certain capacity, the whole "liquid bomb" spiel. On my flight back, after passing through all security checks, it occured to me i still had a 1 litre bottle of water in my backpack. To make sure i asked the (dutch, was flying with KLM) stewardess about it, as i expected not to be allowed to take it with me, and that those indian security guys must have made a mistake.

As it turns out, while it is not allowed to blow up a plane flying from amsterdam to new dehli with your fancy liquid bomb, they have no problem what so ever with you smuggling the same liquid explosive device on board the same aircraft (with presumably the same sort of people on board) traveling in the opposite direction

Anthropomorphalicism

[cosm]

and while he joked that it made his penis feel small

But how did it make him feel? Stop anthropomorphizing penises, they hate it when you do that!

Re:Anthropomorphalicism

[fishexe]

Modded off-topic? Bizarre. Grammar jokes are the heart and soul of Slashdot.

No, posters that think they're being clever while confusing grammar with semantics are the heart and soul of Slashdot.

The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[KublaiKhan]

The only measure which has successfully prevented a terrorist attack since the '01 hijackings is the increased vigilance and response of the flying public.

The TSA's measures are worse than useless: they actually create a hazard, with long, slow-moving, densely-packed lines full of by-definition unscreened persons--lines that are about the ripest target for a bomb that you can find.

Go back to pre-'01 screening procedures, and empower passengers with good-samaritan style legislation that exempts persons from prosecution for acts they genuinely believe to be in prevention of a terrorist incident.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Anonymous Coward]

The only measure which has successfully prevented a terrorist attack since the '01 hijackings is the increased vigilance and response of the flying public.

The TSA's measures are worse than useless: they actually create a hazard, with long, slow-moving, densely-packed lines full of by-definition unscreened persons--lines that are about the ripest target for a bomb that you can find.

You there, stop making sense. TSA policy isn't governed by common sense. TSA policy is governed by rules, and if you don't like the rules, you're free not to fly. Take it directly from the bastard who designed it. (No, not Chertoff. He's just in it for a quick buck.) I mean the other bastard, the one who said...

"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The US Government will lead the American people - and the West in general - into an unbearable hell and a choking life." - The TSA Security Policy Architect, as interviewed on CNN in November 2001.

He's not giving interviews on CNN anymore, just little photos and audio tapes. Here's a snippet from his 2010 interview.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[damburger]

Oh, they are far from useless.

They make an unreasonable request, you comply without thinking. They bark orders at you, you avoid eye contact and meekly take it. They are training you.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Black Parrot]

The TSA's measures are worse than useless: they actually create a hazard, with long, slow-moving, densely-packed lines full of by-definition unscreened persons--lines that are about the ripest target for a bomb that you can find.

I've been thinking about that for years, but never said anything because I didn't want to give anyone any ideas.

Go back to pre-'01 screening procedures, and empower passengers with good-samaritan style legislation that exempts persons from prosecution for acts they genuinely believe to be in prevention of a terrorist incident.

Post-911, an attempting hijacker wouldn't live a minute if the rest of us were carrying pointy things.

Might not anyway, unless the TSA starts confiscating pencils and umbrellas. Almost anything will serve as a weapon in a pinch.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[jcr]

The only measure which has successfully prevented a terrorist attack since the '01 hijackings is the increased vigilance and response of the flying public.

Exactly. The perps have given up on attempting to hijack aircraft, the last two attacks (shoe bomber and underpants bomber) only tried to destroy the plane. The cockpit doors have been reinforced.

I'm convinced that the whole purpose of the TSA is one big Milgram experiment to find out just how far we can be pushed before we resist. I'm rather disappointed that it got this far.

-jcr

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[KublaiKhan]

<p>I've been thinking about that for years, but never said anything because I didn't want to give anyone any ideas.</p>
</quote>

I've been -saying- that for years and it still hasn't happened. I figured that if I saw the possibility within five minutes of seeing the line, anyone else would be able to see it without too much trouble. I've been suspecting that either the so-called 'threat' is far, far overblown or these terrorists are complete and total idiots.

Another of the obvious plots: shoot up (or toss bombs, or suicide-bomb, or carbomb, or...well, you get the point) a Black Friday opening line or three on the east coast at a big box store.

Suddenly, everyone stays home rather than shopping; the economy is ruined for at least the last quarter. Much easier than trying to hijack a plane.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[MoonBuggy]

And yet they haven't done so, which is further evidence that either the pool of competent potential terrorists is vanishingly small or the intelligence agencies are doing their jobs well and preventing plots from getting off the ground (so to speak). In either case, it would appear that the TSA are unnecessary.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Atriqus]

Another of the obvious plots: shoot up (or toss bombs, or suicide-bomb, or carbomb, or...well, you get the point) a Black Friday opening line or three on the east coast at a big box store.

That's not effective terrorism. No one will know if it was a terrorist attack or someone just wanted to thin the line to get to the linens department before the good stuff was picked over.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Al Dimond]

I have a feeling bombing a store on Black Friday wouldn't stop people from shopping. At the Wal-Mart in suburban New York where the doors were literally "busted" and people trampled to death (this was Black Friday 2008 IIRC) the shoppers just kept shopping. The police tried to clear the store for an investigation and were unable to do it. Not one of humanity's brighter moments.

Point being, if one of those crowds was bombed it probably wouldn't even stop people from shopping at that store. Enterprising family members of the dead would be out in the parking lot auctioning off their newly-unneeded vehicles. Black Friday is a scourge more evil, and more powerful, than terrorism.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[tempest69]

I wish you weren't right.
But were just being conditioned to behave and accept that the government is in control. Somehow the government gets some undeserved awe. I remember having it, where the government and the laws were something greater, and noble.
Now I see it as a home owners association that has gotten too large and is full of itself. This is a problem, it is putting people through screening that is unnecessary and ineffectual. The right to balk at being screened has been removed. While I understand the rational, I find it to be reprehensible. We are not subjects, we are citizens, and we need to act accordingly. That our liberties are more important than the convenience of the government.

We are trained to behave as if the law is something crafted by masters of philosophy and reason. That the enforcers are going to be in the right and behave with proper restraint. uncorrupted by their authority. That the jurors will weigh that the defendant broke both the letter of law, and will ensure that the the law itself is appropriate. This is clearly not the case, laws are often made for the personal gain of those with access to power. Police misconduct videos are released at a rate that is truly alarming, a couple police ruining the name of the bunch is still the cry I see over and over. However the number of times this has been caught on video leads me to believe that this is something that is seriously undermining their credibility. After cases like Genarlow Wilson, it appears that the jury has been trained to disregard their primary purpose- determining if the defendant committed a crime that warrants the punishment being let out.

I'm getting tired of all the training, it needs to stop

Storm

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[farnsworth]

<quote> <p>I've been thinking about that for years, but never said anything because I didn't want to give anyone any ideas.</p> </quote> I've been -saying- that for years and it still hasn't happened. I figured that if I saw the possibility within five minutes of seeing the line, anyone else would be able to see it without too much trouble. I've been suspecting that either the so-called 'threat' is far, far overblown or these terrorists are complete and total idiots.

Isn't this what happened at LAX in 2003 or so? It certainly happens in other places around the world. I was at a baseball game in NYC shortly after 9/11 with a friend who has spent time in Isreal, and the lines and crowds outside the security checkpoints at the stadium made him visibly upset.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Daniel_Staal]

I try to give examples of things that are more likely than being in a terrorist attack. (The 'security' doesn't tend to change these materially...) Things like being hit by lightning. Twice. Or suffocating in your bedding while you sleep. Or if you want good luck: You'll likely win the lottery a couple of times before you are in a terrorist attack.

There's almost no threat, realistically. Worry about crossing the road. That's more likely to kill you.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[mabhatter654]

Just like the Nazis. first they were only sending political criminals, then capitalists, and when the guards were well trained (and up to their eyeballs in murder too) they rounded up the women and children like cattle. It may be Godwins law, but here we stand at the ENTIRE POINT of the matter, scanning all the way to our skin and STILL claiming it's not enough security.

Knowing ALL THAT the bozos in Congress allowed the TSA to be created anyway. Ironically Rush was complaining about the "new" extreme procedures... of course there was no problem when "Democrats" were being hassled. It's hilarious that the right-wingers are all over this like it has anything to do with Obama. They cheered while Cheney/Bush created a whole new Cabinet level position, accountable to essentially nobody with access to the NSA, CIA, and FBI and no strings attached. This is funny that it turns around now.. after all they have to look busy or Obama will scale them back.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[wierd_w]

Personally, I feel that this illusionment comes from the indoctrinated sense that being illegal == immoral. That it is NEVER justified to break the law. EG, that it is ALWAYS wrong to steal, or that it is ALWAYS wrong to refuse to 'help' a police officer with an investigation, etc. It is implied that by being so disobedient to the civil infrastructure, that you are an evil anarchist bent on destroying life as we know it, and that you are therefor "evil".

In reality, there ARE times when theft is the correct and appropriate action, or when refusing to assist police is the correct and proper thing to do. [due to risk of enacting Godwin's Law, I will avoid mentioning certain historical events, despite their obvious applicability.]

The reality of the situation is that the civil infrastructure is only useful and good up until a critical threshold, and after that it becomes officious and destructive to the quality of life of the civilians it is supposed to be servicing. Examples are things like the difference between a home owner's association, and a simple lawncare ordinance. The former is officious, the latter is to maintain property values of your neighbors.

Others would be things like enforcing sobriety while operating dangerous equipment (Including vehicles), VS enforcing "The war on drugs(tm)".

The subtle lie that the government\civil infrastructure is ALWAYS good is what allows the civil infrastructure to cross that critical threshold. It is motived to do so, because it is run by humans, and humans LIKE to enforce their wills upon others. (AKA, being addicted to/attracted to power and authority.)

This is further fascilitated by innate human laziness, and innate human weaknesses. Modern life would be impossible/highly impractical if there were no specialists; Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, Politicians, Automotive mechanics, IT professionals, etc. This is imply because there are fundemental limits to what individual humans are capable of accomplishing themselves. The civil infrastructure provides the basic framework upon which specialists can employ their trades, and by which their customers can make reliable use of their services. In this respect, the social infrastructure of government is indeed absolutely vital to modern human existence, and pretty much everyone except sociopaths accepts this innately at some level. Part of the problem is that "Little people" have been so far abstracted from governance due to the increasing complexities of modern existence, that they realistically cannot engage in politics rationally, because that is becoming/has become a specialist discipline. As such, they are pressured naturally, more and more, to simply trust these specialists, since the natural demans of life make it more and more difficult to effectively engage in it. I strongly suspect that this is at least partially at fault for persons continually voting for an abstracted "Party line", VS actually researching issues, and engaging in government as intended.

Likewise, the specialists (Politicians) have their own agendas, and become more and more abstracted/estranged from other demographics in society, and so the government becomes wierder and wierder, and more and more authoritarian; As the ordinary citizen understands the minutae of modern government less and less, they become less and less willing to capitulate, requiring ever escallating levels of control to ensure the reliable function of government.

I personally consider this to be the euphamistically titled "Big Government" that Libertarians rail against. The government becomes bigger and bigger, as it takes on more and more responsibilities, as the average citizen delegates more and more duties to government, because they themselves become more and more specialized.

Without reducing the complexity of the social infrastructure, the requirements on specialist knowledge, or increasing the free time of the average citizen in some fundemental way so that they can cope with dealing with government appropriately, there is really

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Darinbob]

I've often found that rules can turn off common sense. Once you've got a set of rules in place then you've got a flow chart of what to do and don't have to think; if you do think you get cognitive dissonance if the rules are a little bit wrong, so you train yourself not to think...

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Kral_Blbec]

Ummm, right wingers aren't any more over it than left, and I have never heard any "right-winger" claim that it was obama's fault. In fact, beck has even gone out of his way to expressly state that he doesn't blame obama for it.
The idea behind a TSA isn't bad, its the execution and the continiously expanding sphere of influence that is.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Kral_Blbec]

That sounds very logical, and well stated, but the over all gist of it is unfortunately incorrect. Your entire basis is on the claim that the common man is too stupid to understand the complexities of modern society and politics. The truth is rather than they have been told that there is no need to learn it, although they could if they tried. They have also been purposefully lied to and abused by the political leaders so that rather than the average citizen delegating more duty to the government, the government simply assumes control.
I don't believe that society is such much more complex than in the past that peoples brain's are exploding. I still have faith in the potential of the average person to learn a vast amount more than they currently do. Its just a matter of them actively choosing not to and being told that they don't need to. Sports, movies, fashion etc all take up too much of their time that could and should be spent in more constructive pursuits.
Pork barrels and earmarks also aren't the result of amateur politicians messing around with something they don't understand. They are the result of professional politicians knowing that they can get away with it because people have become accustomed to it.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[Nefarious Wheel]

I suspect that Al-Queda sends an idiot through the airlines once in a while to get caught, just to keep the TSA's attention focused there. Personally I'd be looking at vulnerable civil infrastructure by now, totally ignoring risks to flight - they're covered. That's not going to happen again, they've used that one up.

But while we're looking at the airports, how safe is our water supply? How disruptive would destroying the civil sewerage system be? Infecting a single beef feedlot? I think it's time to wake up and think about other ways the bastards could get at us.

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[sjames]

The terrorists will be mobbed and trampled.

"HE'S got a BOMB!!!"

OMG!!! Can I get it giftwrapped?

I NEED three. Does it come in blue?

I was here first, go find your own bombs!!!

Re:The "enhanced" procedures are useless

[squizzar]

I thought part of the problem was the TSA doing stuff that normally only your wife would do?

Still getting over penis-shock.

[girlintraining]

Okay, first -- I'd like to roast the TSA in every way possible for this joke security scheme. That said, the problem is that you just turned a bunch of people loose looking at naked bodies full time when until now they've had very little exposure. It takes awhile to desensitize yourself to the constant nudity and and have it stop distracting you.

Ask any bouncer at a strip club: The first few weeks they couldn't stop looking, but after awhile, a naked woman can walk right past them and it barely registers because it's not new anymore. Happens all the time. And they are focused on the job now.

Re:Still getting over penis-shock.

[mirix]

I'd like to think that the women in a strip club are slightly more distracting than the average flying American.

Hell, I'd be trying to look away from the scanners, not stare at them.

Re:Still getting over penis-shock.

[0100010001010011]

What about the biker that was asked to get redressed so that he could be patted down.

“But that wasn’t enough for the TSA supervisor who was called to the scene and asked me to put my clothes on so I could be properly patted down.”

The statement by the TSA goes to show that it is a complete joke. It's probably the largest single employer of non-HS graduates outside of Walmart. All they know how to do is follow a mental checklist, anything that deviates from that confuses them.

When I flew to India they had just as much (and more) security. The actual threat of a bomb was much greater but they probably had 1/3rd as many workers and numerous faster checkpoints. In America there is 1 'do or die' scanner and then another check for a ticket at the gate.

In India they won't even let you in the building unless your flight leaves within the next 3 hours, don't bother showing up early. Every door is staffed by military. Full gun and uniform, you don't get into the building unless you have a ticket. (Sorry hopeless romantics). Then there is the main body/carry-on scanner. Your carry on gets a tag stamped. You get passed through. But you're still in Purgatory. You have to got through another scanner / ticket check to get out to the gates. Then at the gate they check for the carry-on stamp & ticket. Finally, they won't let you OFF the plane and into the airport unless you have your ticket.

The whole process went so fast, I don't think I waited for more than 3-4 people before I went through. Every single person was military. In shape and carrying a weapon, military.

Compared to O'Hare. Where walking up and down the promenade were a group of 3 TSA "Employees" talking about their boyfriends. Walking 3 wide they had to take up 1/2 the aisle. When we asked a simple question (Can we get food without going through security again) they had no clue. I got better help out of someone that barely spoke English.

TSA is a joke, there are better methods out there implemented by countries where terrorism is a REAL threat (Israel, India, etc).

Re:Still getting over penis-shock.

[RenHoek]

Well I don't know about you but I was in India several years ago when they bombed Jaipur. Even then, returning at Delhi airport to go home, the screeners were shocked I took off my boots and put them on the conveyor belt. Also _everybody_ had a few 1 liter bottles of water. You can't really go long without water in the summer in India. Just to illustrate, at the same time, the USA and Great Britain were confiscating toothpaste and nail clippers.

Also, as an engineer, I can come up with 10 super effective ways to commit terror acts at the airport without even going through the screening process. Because as an engineer it's my job to find solutions to puzzles. And I'm not the smartest cookie in the jar. That means that any person who'd want to do real harm can just as easily come up with the same things I can come up with.

It's 100% theater. And knowing this, still being forced through the procedures just pisses me off as a law abiding citizen.

Stop focusing on the negative already!

[Fluffeh]

Here at the TSA, we dislike the way that you are focusing on our mistakes. Yes, we make mistakes, but so does everyone else.

We just happen to be in a position that allows us to have X-Ray vision and check out all the bits that people cover up. I mean seriously, how many times as a kid did you wish to have a pair of X-Ray glasses to check out your neighbor? Well, it's just like that! But we can!

So, please, stop focusing on the bad, just because WE have a toy that you DON'T doesn't mean that you should try to take it away from us!

Now, excuse me, there is a hot chick coming. I need to check her very carefully for explosives and hidden things.

*sips coffee*

I'm joking, I have a squigly line.

[Anonymous Coward]

Modded off-topic? Bizarre. Grammar jokes are the heart and soul of Slashdot.

I think you misspelled "grammer".

And let's just clarify a few things.

[khasim]

The TSA has not yet caught a single terrorist attempting to get on a plane.

The TSA is NOT the "last line of defense". The last line of defense will be the other passengers on the flight.

If the TSA really thought that your bottle of water was a bomb then why don't they treat you like a person who just attempted to smuggle a bomb onto the plane?

The TSA is useless at their stated mission.

Re:And let's just clarify a few things.

[lightbox32]

If the TSA really thought that your bottle of water is a threat, would they have you chug it into a container not 5 feet from them?

Re:And let's just clarify a few things.

[orangepeel]

Ridiculous?

Air marshal leaves plane after dropping bullets

Passenger Finds Loaded Ammunition Clip on Southwest Flight

US air marshal leaves gun in airport restroom

Air Marshal Causes International Incident

Air Marshal Accused of Rape at Gunpoint

Marshals Fight Battle in Air and on Ground

From that last article:

"How would you describe the management in the air marshal service?" CBS News chief investigative correspondent Armen Keteyian asked a current air marshal.

"Sexist, racist, homophobic, anti-disabled vet group, grossly incompetent," said the marshal, whose identity was concealed. "That's the general consensus among air marshals."

Nearly two dozen current or former marshals have told CBS News the agency is dominated by an "old boys club" of white, male supervisors -- mainly ex-secret service agents who, they allege, routinely discriminate, intimidate and retaliate against employees who question their actions or authority.

"This behavior has just spread like a cancer and it's out of control," the marshal said.

Well ... it sounds like you called it right: ridiculous.

Wasn't too recent - May.

[Anonymous Freak]

It was at w00tstock in Seattle. That was in May.

Re:TSA @ LAX Saw my junk

[geekoid]

So your complaint is there are now too well trained? The can tell the difference between the normal shit you have and a bomb.

They arent looking for terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

An illegal search is admissible as evidence when a 'private entity' has conducted it.

They are looking for drugs, because a cop can't without probable cause.

This is the same reason they wanted to set up a program to have postal employees peeking in your windows.

The fourth amendment is seen by LEO as a roadblock to 'unlimited' revenue based on property seizure.

Pistole, the other day, in bragging about the effectiveness of the scanners, couldn't help mentioning the drug seizures and heroin needle it had detected.

Cop makes his bust, LEO gets his seized house, car, boat, etc to auction. At the very worst, some minimum wage high school dropout nobody of a TSA agent takes any possible legal heat.

Re:Security Theater, a comedy in 5 acts.

[larry bagina]

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more government!

Re:TSA @ LAX Saw my junk

[j00r0m4nc3r]

Imagine if they had searched him. "I got stopped and searched over my shoe inserts. Those fucking morons couldn't tell the difference between a pico projector device and a bomb. Fuck you TSA!"

Re:winning the war on toursim

[harvey the nerd]

"Winning the war of tourism" means keeps most of that valuable foreign exchange at home. No doubt the Feds consider expats to be traitors, even if enviously.

Re:winning the war on toursim

[Korin43]

We can never go back because just like (most)everything that's wrong with this country it's not about what's right. It's about what makes profit for the rich.

That's what confuses me about this. Why haven't airline lobbyists stopped this yet? Do they not realize that everyone hates flying now?

I'm not surprised they missed the razor blades...

[Rhodri Mawr]

...they are a cutting edge technology after all.

Re:Let's clarify one more thing

[mabhatter654]

exactly, the recent case of the guy who had to live with peeing in a bag. He tried to request they be careful, or even ASK what they wanted.. until they squeezed his bag of piss all over him. The entire point what that THEY didn't want to be told what to do, THEY didn't want to pay attention, they wanted to prove a point... and they did... he inconvenienced them and they made him miss his flight and embarrassed him in public. The whole thing is a clear example that THEY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK, they are going to do this ANYWAY especially BECAUSE you don't like it.

If the TSA and FAA was really serious, they would do like the medical centers and consult with Disney and the amusement park industry for how to handle large volumes of people quickly, safely, and respectfully. Getting a few hundred people an hour on a plane should be a piece of cake. Amusement parks put thousands of people per day into tiny carts standing in the hot July Sun, quickly and safely. Why can't multi-Billion dollar airlines? Because they don't have to CARE that's why. There is no excuse for the deplorable mess mass transportation is right now, especially because airports have near complete control of passengers... it's their own petty bureaucracies they can't control.

Re:because I haven't seen anybody say this yet..

[s0litaire]

it's not "Myth Busted" till we have video evidence of Karri walking through the scanner a few times to test a couple of theories... ^_~

Re:Security Proposition

[retchdog]

I don't think the guns and knives would do much, and would possibly lead to some incidents with "normal people" losing it on-flight (too much drink, or undiagnosed mental illness, &c.) It seems plausible that the probability of this is much higher than of terrorism. At the least, it should be taken into account. I am fairly pro-2nd amendment, but on a purely numbers level it just may not make sense to have a lot of guns on a plane (or at a school, &c.).

I agree with your spirit though. I think that the post-9/11 knowledge that hijacking=death is enough. A couple of terrorists armed only with knives would be easily taken down by the bum-rush of citizens armed with grim knowledge.

A terrorist with a decent, functional bomb would not be deterred by armed resistance. Assuming he has a real trigger and isn't trying to ignite his groin or shoes, it would all be over without anyone noticing.

Which leaves the possibility of terrorists with guns. However, I'm pretty sure that we achieve 100% gun control on planes anyway (feel free to present counterexample).

A 1960's chemistry book is more dangerous

[LostMyBeaver]

Back before the 80's high school chemistry books often contained "fun kitchen chemistry" which would explain how to make explosives from items you could find in a kitchen or bathroom. Take a look sometime at the chemicals that are used to make perfumes and makeup. You'll find that you can make a large amount of low yield explosives quite easily using only what's found in duty free. A 2lb brick of low yield explosives is more than enough to breach the plane. But a detonator is still needed. That's no problem either, stop into the electronics store in duty free. You'll find everything you need right there.

If the security serves ANY purpose, that is to make the people who are likely to actually blow a plane up look nervous about it. The profiling kicks in. Of course, if the TSA is a big laughing joke, it'll be easier for these people to be calm and confident because unlike in the old days, when flight security was a little annoying but nothing really impeding, people didn't nitpick it on a global scale and make a joke of it.

What the TSA has done to their reputation has made it so that anyone who actually wants to bomb an airplane will simply walk through the scanners, head held high, buy what they need and bomb the plane they're targeting.

Re:A 1960's chemistry book is more dangerous

[LostMyBeaver]

I apologize for overgeneralizing and respect I've been called for it.

I'll address the latter first. In this circumstance, the detonator is the device to detonate the explosives. It would be used to detonate an incendiary based on a remote or a timer. Not specifically in the respect of a high explosive. Simply, a method of causing a spark or flame to ignite the item without being present. Buy a remote control car, a watch, etc... headphone cables would be offer wires if needed.

Second, it is entirely legal and practical to purchase hydrogen peroxide in the pharmacy in the duty free area. If that is a "controlled substance" there are more than enough "first aid" products in the same store to provide a similar effect in lower concentration. As for obtaining oxidizing agents from within the traditional "duty free shop", I admit... I'm challenged to find one, but without digging to deep, I'd imagine that it's possible to find it in makeup removers, some toothpastes (in miniscule quantities), I have even seen personal coal/peroxide water filtering items to get modern day yuppies to be able to clean their bottled water with.

While I have not gone through the effort myself to actually try any of these devices. Nor have I seen the benefit in actually devising any one incendiary device based on the theory. But still, the products ARE there. It's a matter of finding them.

P.S. As for nitric acid... well yeh.. pretty sure you're going to have a hard time finding that. But thanks to the Googles I've done just looking for stuff now, I'm pretty sure I'm on a watch list now hehe.

A hole in the plane

[Compaqt]

The thing is, while people have talked about the underwear bomber, shoe bomber, etc., but has anybody established that punching a hole would take down the whole plane?

Didn't Mythbusters "refudiate" the notion that shooting a gun on a plane would crash it?

Or is all this just theater?