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Windows Phone 7 Sales Continue To Struggle
rtfa-troll writes "Even with the pre-Christmas buying rush, Microsoft is already desperately offering a new buy one get one free offer similar to the ones they gave for the KIN. According to the article, 'Windows Phone 7 devices can't even manage two per cent of the fortnight's sales.' These aren't official Microsoft figures; they come from online shopping sites. But since Microsoft official sales figures seem subject to manipulation, this is perhaps one of the better guesses we will get at the success of Windows Phone 7 until well into next year. This also strongly backs up other reports of deeply disappointing phone sales. Even Microsoft supporters have been wondering for a while whether it's time for Ballmer to go. If the sales reports are true, then he may be pushed before he jumps."
BOGO offers are in no way a sign of desperation. WTF is wrong with the submitter, and Soulskill? Android has been doing BOGO's or outright free phones for months/years now. Is it "desperate" or "in trouble" or running with "disappointing sales"? Hey, let's all hate on Microsoft without a shred of evidence, it's slashdot!
You come to the party late and everyone has filled up on meat, casseroles, and desserts. If you want them to fill that fraction of space they might have left you better bring them something they can't resist.
If they wanted to make any sort of splash, they should have released the OS several months ago AND chosen a different carrier.
Call me. Steve not knowing what he's doing could only last so long.
If you want a long-term technology-business-plan, you're new-tech is out-of-touch-tech.
Microsoft? Was that not the company trying so hard to build software? They try to sell phones now? This is probably not a bad idea... I always thought they should do something different.
xoda.org
I don't think the Windows Phone approach is bad actually - there is something to be said for a device that really streamlines the experience - but the question is how much the market wants it. I'd have to see evidence that iPhone/Android/Blackberry/webOS users are really dissatisfied with the current way of doing things (in the way that pre-smartphone users were with their regular phones).
...no official figures, no official declarations, no after-holiday-season data, no actual news.
I understand this is slashdot, but come on. Criticism sticks better if it is documented, otherwise it's just another form of shilling.
My book: Friendly F#, fun with game development and XNA; my game: Galaxy Wars by VSTeam; my gamedev language: Casanova.
Yeah, that's probably a part of it. AT&T is already home to the iPhone as well as several Android handsets, choosing a different carrier like say Verizon or Sprint would've made it a lot easier on them.
I'd have a Windows Phone 7 if they were on my carrier. Really stupid idea to launch with only AT&T where you have to compete with the iPhone and Android. At least if they started or launched concurrently on Verizon or Sprint, they wouldn't be competing as much with the iPhone.
I saw original Droid phones for 1 penny (w/ contract) just before the Droid Incredible was released by Verizon. Hardly the same as deep discounting of WP7 units a month after release.
The marketing at microsoft baffles me too. I don't know any iphone/android/blackberry users that are even remotely interested in the WP7 stuff. People are staying away in droves.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Um, what? t-mobile has them right now (http://htc.t-mobile.com/hd7/hd7-windows-mobile-lp?WT.ac=0918HOM04) and Sprint (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2370604,00.asp) and Verizon in early 2011 (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372743,00.asp)
Emacs is for experts. Pico is for beginners. VI is a disease.
Yep, Microsoft is now in the same place GM was in the mid seventies to the late 90's.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Just like the commercials say - "The Windows 7 Phone. A phone to save us from our phones". They even show how people want to use the other phones, with the clear message that we will not want to use a Windows 7 phone nearly as much. They seem to have actually accomplished their goal, and created a phone that people will be far less obsessed with using than cooler toys like iPhones, Androids and Blackberries.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Desperate to stay competitive against iPhone and Android mobile devices, Microsoft has released a two-pound lump of actual cow faeces that they claim constitutes a phone.
Windows Mobile 7, in development for several years, strips the mobile telephone down to its fundamental essence: futility, annoyance, malfunction, inconvenience and a socially unacceptable odour. Confounding analyst expectations, the turd is in fact shined.
US mobile carriers hailed the turd as the perfect physical complement to their world-famous customer service. "This powerful product will promote our growth!" said John Harrobin of Verizon Wireless. "We're marketing them as edible."
"We think we can really work the brand equity," said Steve Ballmer, modelling the optional shoulder-length rubber gloves. "Everyone works with our stuff all day every day. They know who Microsoft is and what we do."
"How about making our customers actually swallow our bullshit physically?" said John Harrobin. "Windows Mobile 7 was my idea."
Picture: Steve Ballmer overjoyed at Windows phone sales figures.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Or other Japanese manufacturers*.
Honda spent years (decades?) building things with small engines. Starting with 90cc motorcycles, they slowly learned the technology and marketplace. As they did so, they slowly worked their way up the product chain until they reached the position they are in now.
Perhaps Ballmer must go. But does Microsoft have the patience to tough it out for a decade or so, repairing the damage he has done and rebuilding the product teams (while enduring stinking sales figures) before they start to see results?
*There are numerous examples other than Honda. But it was the only car analogy I could think of.
Have gnu, will travel.
So far I really haven't seen any indications that the OS is doing badly. My AT&T store said that the demand for them was high, especially for the Focus, and I've seen similar responses from the T-Mo reps. I don't think you can write off the system until it's been released on the CDMA networks and has had a few updates.
My personal experience with it has been somewhat mixed. The UI is superb, lightyears beyond Android, but it has its share of weaknesses - a big one I can think of is lack of socket support in the public API. I think this will probably be added in the January update, but in the mean time, it means there are a lot of application types that just aren't available, like an IRC client. The dev tools are generally excellent, just limited in terms of exposed functionality.
I might be the exception, but when I saw a picture of a phone with this OS, my first reaction was to think it's plain ugly. I wouldn't buy one just for that. Does anyone else think it looks ugly, too?
I have said this for two years, since they dumped the old Windows Mobile. Someone inside Microsoft was given one last shot at a technological solution. This was not given much hope, kind of like John McCain's campaign, but the culture dictated it. The financial managers are just waiting for the first two quarters of dismal results to report before launching their plan to regroup, focusing solely on the enterprise, and buying RIM while their mobile market share is low enough to get the acquisition past the SEC. This should be a surprise to no one.
Ars summed it up nicely, their launch numbers are not as bad as some are making it sound, certainly not horrible Windows phone 7 launch numbers explained.
They have a lot to add to this new OS to catch the competition, but they know that, they simply had to ship. Overall it is a very well laid out OS with some great ideas. In the big picture the smartphone market is still very young. Microsoft has a lot of talented people, and backed into a corner Balmer might just let them perform. It is way too early to start pointing fingers and snickering.
They shouldn't have attached the "Windows" brand to their phone. Windows is a desktop operating system. It has a popularized reputation (warranted or not) for being unwieldy, crashing, being expensive, and mostly dedicated to the accomplishment of boring or undesirable tasks like work, writing papers, using Office, etc. They should have created a new brand for the phone.
Having a "Windows Phone" from Microsoft is sort of like IBM coming out with a social networking site called "The IBM Human Interaction System" and then marketing it to young people as hip and cool. There is an emotional and/or psychological disconnect between the nature of the product and the mental conception people have of the brand.
Even though it's stupid, when I see the Android ads I think "oh cool, an ANDROID! I wonder what it can do? It looks futuristic. I kind of want one." (note: I don't have a smart phone because I think they are stupid.) However, when I hear the word "Windows Phone", it makes me feel like getting one would be like keeping a chunk of my job in pocket. No thanks.
The only functionality I use in my phone these days is the address book. Everything else I do through my iPad. If they'd add phone capabilities to the iPad (a bluetooth earpiece and adding a CDMA radio would do it) then I wouldn't even need a "phone" per se. Sure, I want to carry lots of functionality, but the tiny, tiny universe of a phone's screen just doesn't cut it anymore -- the iPad simply crushed that whole domain for me.
As I'm carrying the iPad anyway, much less cumbersome and easier to use than a laptop, I surely am not tempted by Windows Phone 7, or iPhone, or Android. Once I took the step of deciding the iPad was worth carrying, smartphones simply became annoying.
Hopefully Apple/Jobs will see the opportunity and run with it. Add a couple of cameras, phone capability, perhaps an IR emitter for controlling my home widgetry... hopefully get rid of that ridiculous expanse of bezel and design in a decent grip on the backside... wireless charging and wireless sync... now that's what I'm talking about. That's how to get my money. [waves money around cheerily]
Even if such a wonder doesn't get made, it still boils down to phone+address book is all I have to go for right now. And I have to say, it's a relief to be able to skip every Engadget and Gizmodo post that is about a phone -- cuts my reading time down to a fraction of what it used to be, while the reality of it all cuts my phone bill down at the same time (because my phone is now a cheapie LG with no "data plan"), and all the while I've got more power and usability (particularly with regard to display real estate and touch surface) at hand -- with free wifi -- than can be crammed into the tiny bit of real estate smartphone designs provide. :)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
T-Mobil has very poor or non-existent coverage in my rural area.
...it isn't dead yet.
Wouldn't it be kinder to put it out of its misery, though?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I can kinda relate to this. MS is my bread and butter, but when faced recently with Android for the first time, and leaving 5 years of Windows Mobile, or WP7, I had to opt for Android. And I'm really glad I did.
It is weird, but Android feels like the Windows of the smartphone World. I can install anything I like on it, which will lead to a support nightmare in years to come, when non-tech have installed the Chinese 'super speed up my phone' app. But in allowing people to install what they like, I'm there. I don't want my mobile phone locked down tighter than a ducks ass into iTunes or Windows Marketplace, tyvm.
And those WP7 ads are fantastic - the phone you don't need to use much. What the hell? I admit to having to pull myself away from my new phone, as between using it as an ebook reader, mp3 device, gaming platform, web browser, ticket system for my public transport, etc - this thing is immense. I 'want' to use my phone a lot - as a commuter, it's a fantastic device. But then, when has MS marketing ever 'helped' MS - I swear they're paid per cock-up they achieve.
The lock-in on WP7, and massive restrictions at launch feel very unprofessional. MS knew they were playing catch-up, and had to launch something superb, that was ahead of the game. The gaming does look good on WP7, but it seems they completely abandoned their enterprise market to do it - what used to be fleets on Win Mobile devices will soon be no more - and still MS keeps saying "Yes, it's coming. You'll be able to do 'x' on it, soon". It should have been ready to cater to business on day 1, not as an after thought.
It seems MS really believed they could launch a consumer product that would float on its own merits - even with my MS tinted glasses on, I admit that's something they've never really been good at. They lack 'coolness' to do what apple can do in the consumer market - something I hate as a concept, but concede is a big issue in getting consumer electronics to sell. I originally thought I'd look at Windows Phone again next time my contract's up, but to be honest, I can't see it still being a player in 2 years time.
They aren't on Verizon or Sprint quite yet because Microsoft didn't have time to get the OS ready for CDMA devices. Considering how poorly the first CDMA Android devices performed (example: phones using Android 1.6 couldn't use A-GPS for a long time if I remember correctly), getting the bugs out first seems like it was a solid strategy.
Could AT&T being the sole service provider have anything to do with the sluggish Sales?
Obviously not, since that's not actually true. I see a flashy ad for the HTC HD7 whenever I go to check my T-Mobile account - so it's on other carriers. But why would I, or anyone else, want this phone?
#DeleteChrome
Maybe when Ballmer is inevitably canned within the next FY or two, MS will get smart and put a CEO in his place that is much more focused on developing MS's core business model of enterprise software systems, and will stop wasting money on retarded consumer electronics ventures that in the end turn into nothing but money black holes.
If they wait two years, they risk losing most of their 'core market' to the competition. The desktop market is saturated, you have to be crazy to put Windows on a server, and the mobile market is too entrenched for Windows to become the biggest player and probably not even a major one.
While shopping for phones earlier this year, I checked out the T-Mobile store with my brother to get a family plan. Lo-and-behold, they offered the buy-one-get-one-free deal on the Samsung Galaxy S, an Android phone that is, if anything, selling like hotcakes. In the end, we didn't get T-Mobiles because of the higher phone costs and instead settled for an Evo across the street.
Still, it's not just phones that aren't selling that get promotional gimmicks like rebates and buy-one-get-one-frees. I bet the article writer just saw these two things and tried to put them together by the deadline. Don't read into this too deeply.
When people use Windows 7 sales numbers to show how successful and popular Windows 7 is, I keep reminding them that the numbers primarily reflect PC sales. Windows 7 just happens to be there. Sales of new cars automatically implies sales of new tires, not that the tires themselves are a hit with consumers. What we're seeing in Windows phone sales is an example of the dismal performance of most Microsoft products when they actually have to compete on an equal footing.
Back when Gates was in charge, Microsoft focused in on one thing: enterprise software. They were good at it. Hell, they were the best at it. They did nothing else except develop this enterprise software.
Microsoft took advantage of being a prime player on commodity hardware. They also ate Novel's lunch by providing a cheap end-run around Novel's licensing (and a rather easy migration path away from Netware). Microsoft solutions tended to be the cheap alternative. That advantage no longer exists.
Folks cannot trust Microsoft that it will stick with Windows Phone 7 in the long run. They have seen Pocket PC, Zune, and various embedded OSes and gadgets from Microsoft abandoned in the last couple of years.
says it's about 77K people. You can probably discount about ~50K of that as the developers and MS/Dell employee giveaway, however.
http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=135892916448833&v=info
I don't know about Ballmer, surely he is no motivator with that Leghorn Foghorn mouth...it's a turnoff. And he has no technical chops.
However, I think Microsoft is merely a product of their times. IBM handed them the opportunity for a monopoly, and they took advantage of it (and IBM). They managed to get their foot in the door when companies were building out their computing infrastructure when an IBM-centered infrastructure couldn't do would companies wanted. So Microsoft was able to ride the wave and integrate their software offerings, thus lockin. Playing dirty also helped them.
Now, the computing paradigm is changing again....or rather, it is moving along the same trajectory again after being stuck in the build out phase of IBM-free infrastructure. Now it is changed to what used to be called pervasive computing a few years ago...dunno what it is called now. The writing was on the wall in 2000 when pervasive computing was getting a head of steam at universities. Microsoft was caught flatfooted thinking their prowess at signing contracts with PHBs somehow meant they were on the cutting edge of innovation.
I don't think Apple saw their current success back when they started the iPod. I think they realized there might be a market for a good interface on a useful and potentially ubiquitous device. Once that hit big, they realized the gameplan of targeting a moribund but ubiquitous technology could be quite lucrative if they were able to move fast and demand an easy, intuitive interface. Microsoft isn't quick, they have no sense of class which is really what underlies an interface people really want to use, and they are stuck on selling to PHBs....who now have bean counters breathing down their necks. If it weren't for desktop lockin, they'd be dead. And if desktops turn into a moribund market, Microsoft is toast.
Ray Ozzie was forward thinking enough, but it isn't clear anyone at Microsoft was listening. Gates making a comeback won't help them, he's the guy to built the sclerotic Microsoft bureaucracy and yesterday's gameplan. IBM only managed because they found a ready market in business services and they knew the service industry since a lot of it still runs on their iron. Can Microsoft find such a market, or new business plan?
Without a shred of evidence? You wouldn't happen to be related to the guy who wrote "1984" would you? Also, when your local store offers a BOGO at Christmas time it may be spreading the holiday cheer. When Microsoft - who only offered BOGOs once in all of history (when their product wasn't selling well, no less) - starts offering them, and their sales is under 2% then, yes, it is reasonable to conclude their is a motivation other than holiday cheer.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
For a first time Win 7 "user"
Wow, you don't say? Someone who's never used Windows 7 and thinks it takes more time to install Nero (why?) on Windows 7 has biases against Windows and Windows mobile 7?
Color me shocked. Might I also venture a guess that you have poor social skills, personal hygiene, and have an irregular, poorly shaved, patch beard growing its way down your neck?
But then you need competing sim-only plans like in Europe.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Ballmer is crazy and only got the CEO job because he was college buddies with Bill Gates, but just because MSFT is failing at phones and bing does not mean he is a bad CEO. He has helped the MSFT cash cows (Office/Windows) increase in revenue and profits. MSFT is losing phones but they are winning with their enterprise/desktop software products. Even Xbox is starting to show some success with their xbox live service.
In general I agree with what you've said up above, but I think this statement misses something more fundamental:
I don't think Apple saw their current success back when they started the iPod.
I think Steve Jobs has wanted to create a Dynabook for going on 30 years now, but the technology wasn't in place to do it right until quite recently. The iPad is something that's been in the works for decades. The iPod and the iPhone were diversions which, ironically, gave Apple a lot of the insights, the technology and the marketshare/mindshare to make the iPad possible sooner than it might have been otherwise (and more successful).
And the iPhone probably only came about because Motorola so thoroughly f*cked up their ROKR that Apple gave up on partnering with existing cell manufacturers and decided to take the risk of going it alone themselves.
Memo to Microsoft Board of Directors
He has to go, period.
He represents all that is wrong with Microsoft, perceived or true, he represents it. He represents MS from the bad old days when competition meant using cash to wreck other companies by stealing their talent because they might or in fact have come out with software that was better then the stuff you were thinking of doing or were actually doing.
He has been utterly, completely and publicly flat out wrong about so many things and in the context of Windows Mobile you have but only to see his public comments dismissing the iPhone.
Microsoft has development teams that other companies and many governments only dream of having. Imagine what Microsoft could do if those teams were not played against each other, not held back by his myopic vision, not restricted by utterly insane S & M strategies. Just imagine what they could do if they teamed up with some of the best development minds outside their campus. Imagine what the Windows OS could be like if it was combined with best of Linux or what Linux could be like combined with best of Windows.
Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
One thing that does not bode well for Win 7 phone is the fact that MS is silent on sales figures. A Google search yields exactly one fact: they sold 40,000 units on the first day. I would assume they would crowing about their phone sales the same way they are bragging about their Kinect sales figures. Thurrott's site was talking Win Phone 7 for six months. Now, except for a link to his Win 7 Phone Guide, there is zero mention of the phone on his site.
http://www.toptechnews.com/story.xhtml?story_id=023000QNLD00&full_skip=1
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Apple-Android-Sales-Soar-Despite-Component-Shortages-in-Q3-692598/
Last I heard, Android was activating 200k handsets per day.
Bedwetting over whether Android or iPhone is better is reaching tidal levels.
RIM continues to decline. WebOS is not setting any sales records.
WMP7 _could_ turn things around and make MS powerful in the cell phone market - but seriously, it just looks like too little, too late to me.
The new Android wave is driven by converts, unhappy with what was out there.
I see nothing driving a WMP7 wave beyond legacy users - and that's not going to be good enough.
Even the apologists are describing Android "like the new Windows on smartphones." God forbid they come out and admit that Android is Linux and that they never got that the OSes should work for us - not polarize us into fan camps.
But I could be wrong. It's entirely possible that the best thing you could do would be to completely trust Microsoft to build a compact operating system that works swimmingly on much-less-than-desktop hardware.
Meanwhile, Android and iOS are proving to be effective at driving handsets and tablets.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
If I could buy a car that got me to my destination without the time and hassle of requiring me to guide it and avoid traffic/bad drivers, then that would be a feature that I would value. So, if there is someone out there working on a car for people who hate driving, I'd like to encourage them to continue working on it. Do not be discouraged by the preceding poster.
sudo vi ~/.ascensionrc
music lover since 1969
FTA:
You evidently can't tell the difference between and and not.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
And those WP7 ads are fantastic - the phone you don't need to use much. What the hell?
Really? ;)
It appeals to me. I'm getting close to braining my wife with a 2x4 for pissing around on her phone like some sort of OCD crack addict.
I think they are just to Late in the Game. The sudden Drop of wm 6 shocked many business customers. And now I believe it is mostly the "who needs another platform" reason
I guess I'm over hating Microsoft just to hate on them because dammit I want facts if I am gonna hate.
- The US market for cell phones is so fubared with contracts that the idea that an new OS is gonna change the market in a quarter is silly.
- It is the holiday season and while there I'm sure are people that would give someone a new phone as a gift the econ is not exactly strong right now and there are plenty of other things that people are using as gifts as well.
- Even thou a lot of sites/people that I trust have said that the Win7Mo OS is decent it's nothing groundbreaking like the iPhone OS was. As such to go back to my 1st point to expect that such a thing will change the market in a quarter is silly.
I know it's nothing new but I guess after enough exposure to it after the mass media has picked up the idea of making outrage up if there is none to be had I'd like /. to at least try harder.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
Oh, given that history of which I wasn't quite aware, I think you are right.
Did you seriously just say "If a user doesn't want to use the application IT supports and for which they received training, they can find another job."?
I'm sorry are you living in a world where you think that IT is THAT important? I mean really. What little planet do you live on?
IT is a service. In fact, beyond Teir 1 support, it shouldn't even have a physical presence in an organization. In fact, it should be more like building maintenance. When a company moves into a new building, they get janitors, window washers, front reception, security and IT services as part of their rent.
Most companies don't require anything more than computers running Windows or Mac OS X, Microsoft Office, some decent web mail, and remote access. That's it. IT exists purely to run the server, install programs and reinstall computers when they fail. Taking backups might help as well.
In fact, most of the server stuff these days should be run from a virtual machine which can be hosted on servers at any of 100 different local service providers.
This isn't 1980. It doesn't take a masters degree to operate a server. Keeping e-mail, VPN and a file server running can be done by the boss's 13 year old skateboarding kid most of the time. It's trivial. When you get to an enterprise scale, then instead of building an IT department, you should start a separate external IT company to handle the tasks and that company should be required to bid at the end of each contract period to keep the contract.
Let me assure you that you as an IT drone are disposable and replaceable. On the other hand, the guy who wants Outlook on his computer because after graduating high school with a solid 1.2 GPA and a football jersey is walking around with a little black book he wants to keep in Outlook that is good for $1,000,000 of sales on each phone call to an old football buddy he makes. Replacing him is next to impossible.
Is it fair that it's like that... well no. Is it reality? yes. Don't pretend for a minute that as an IT guy you're anything that can't be replaced. You're no different than the guy who bangs a wrench on the boiler in winter to make it work.
The only exception to this is, when the company itself is a tech company. And then, IT is bottom of the totem pole since the engineers can do that job too if they had the time.
Whatever you do, understand that if the user wants Outlook, you can try and convince them otherwise, offer good alternatives. But if they say "I know outlook and am comfortable in it and would prefer not to switch". Then you install outlook and find a way to support it or he'll suggest to his drinking buddy the CEO that the IT department gets restructured.
The recent Radio Shack flyer was 80% Android phones. On Black Friday my local Best Buy had an end cap station promoting Samsung and Huawei Android tablets, and behind them rows of Android phones; I looked for a Windows 7 phone and couldn't find one. I think you can get a decent (as in "Would have blown anyone's mind 5 years ago") Android phone running Froyo 2.2 for $0 with a 2-year plan from every carrier, at which point the only reason to get a lesser phone is if you can't afford the data plan. I got an LG Optimus S "for free" along with an HTC Evo.
Sorry Ballmer, maybe Windows Phone 7.1 or IX
=S
Hear, hear. I'd totally be looking into getting one if it were on Verizon. I was shocked when I learned it would be only AT&T at launch. Way to put it out on only ONE carrier and worse the one carrier that is already super-saturated with competitors (and, in specific, the other major smartphone on a single carrier --- iPhone). I mean, when iPhone did it, they made a splash and it worked and it continues to work today based on that momentum. But now we're several years later and there are a ton of smartphones and you can't do what Apple did and expect it to work the same way. Brilliant, Microsoft. Probably should have focused on CDMA first and delayed GSM instead.