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A Peek At South Korea's Autonomous Robot Gun Turrets

cylonlover writes "If there's one place you don't want to be caught wandering around right now, it's the demilitarized zone that separates North and South Korea. Especially since South Korean military hardware manufacturer DoDAMM used the recent Korea Robot World 2010 expo to display its new Super aEgis 2, an automated gun turret that can detect and lock onto human targets from kilometers away, day or night and in any weather conditions, and deliver some heavy firepower."

52 of 298 comments (clear)

  1. But... by rbarreira · · Score: 5, Funny

    can it detect cloaked spies carrying sappers?

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    1. Re:But... by grantek · · Score: 2

      No, but you can bypass it with 1 multitool

    2. Re:But... by kshade · · Score: 2

      can it detect cloaked spies carrying sappers?

      It doesn't have to, North Korea will just scout rush it until it's out of ammo (or reached its kill limit).

    3. Re:But... by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 2

      StarCraft was specifically introduced to South Korea to train them to handle zerg rushes. Would be one hell of a zerg though.

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      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    4. Re:But... by musicalmicah · · Score: 2

      There are usually explosive crates nearby many turrets in both DX1 and DX2. If you are clever and observant enough, you can often sneak around and throw the crate at the turret, thus disabling it without having to waste your precious multitools.

  2. It does not have the Juche spirit by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Juche spirit is indomitable. The capitalist lap dogs of the South cannot hope to win because their people are weak and unwilling to die for their country.

    1. Re:It does not have the Juche spirit by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wait, I'm confused. If the last comment was ironic then that means this is also ironic, but if it's not then neither is this.

      Are you always ironic answer guy or never ironic guy. Wait. No. That doesn't answer the question. Uhm. Ah! Got it! If I asked your brother whether that was ironic then would he say it's ironic?

    2. Re:It does not have the Juche spirit by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Funny

      Amateur.

      The American reactionaries and their South Korean lapdogs are becoming so brazen-faced as to distort and justify the crimes perpetrated by American imperialists against humanity in the past, kicking up a whirlwind of militarism throughout their societies. It is a legal and moral obligation and a historical task of the United States to redeem its past crimes. No matter how much water may flow under the bridge, the Korean people will never forget the American imperialists' history of criminal aggression of Korea. It has become as clear as noonday that the U.S. seeks to turn the Korean Peninsula into a sea of fire. America will pay for it without fail, today or tomorrow, the only question is when. There exists no "human rights issue" in the DPRK as all its people form a big family and live in harmony helping and leading one another forward under the man-centred socialist system. It is quite ludicrous for the U.S. to talk about human rights as it has wantonly violated the sovereignty of Afghanistan by openly mounting a military attack on it, state-sponsored terrorism, defying the un and international law and ruthlessly trampled underfoot the human rights of innocent people there. The Obama administration is massacring civilians in an organized way by use of most destructive high-tech weapons.They cannot stop the juche socialism as practiced by the DPRK. A heyday unprecedented in the history of the nation lies ahead of the brave fraternal Korean people, who are courageously rushing towards the world by tapping the inexhaustible potentials of Songun era. Socialism in the DPRK is winning a victory after victory. The Workers' Party of Korea has covered the road of victory and glory under the wise leadership of President Kim Il Sung.The recent Conference of the WPK demonstrated the iron will of the Korean people to remain faithful to the leadership of Kim Jong Il, holding him at the top post of the WPK. The might of the army and people of the DPRK united close around the great WPK serves as a source of invincibility of Korean-style socialism. World-startling events are taking place one after another in socialist Korea. This has convinced the world progressive political parties of a victory of socialism. Bright future is in store for the WPK and people holding Kim Jong Il in high esteem. Kim Jong Il is leading the campaign for the building of a great, prosperous and powerful nation to a brilliant victory as he steers the efforts to effect a great revolutionary upsurge on the strength of single-minded unity.

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    3. Re:It does not have the Juche spirit by martas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just so no modders get confused, this is a joke. Or rather, it is a depressingly accurate imitation of typical shameless communist propaganda.

    4. Re:It does not have the Juche spirit by queBurro · · Score: 2

      Kim Jong Il, he was in 'team america' right?

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      sag
    5. Re:It does not have the Juche spirit by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2
      Actually, I just copy and pasted most of it from KCNA, replacing country names as appropriate.

      Psychological projection is a psychological defense mechanism where a person unconsciously denies their own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, such as to the weather, or to other people. Thus, it involves imagining or projecting that others have those feelings.

      If you go through your life thinking about tattered old speeches about American imperialism ringing in your head, every problem looks like a nail.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:It does not have the Juche spirit by rtyhurst · · Score: 2

      Comrade, well spoken.

      You may pick up your voucher for the "Glorious Leader Whores And Coors Camp" at any WPK bunker...

  3. There's a really useful aspect to these. by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I tend not to get too excited by weapons since they are designed to kill people. Still, these are primarily defensive.

    What is really great about them though is that they can be used s an alternative to landmines. There has been a strong demand for a landmine ban from a lot of the world for some time, but they have been unable to get US backing. Now, the US is pretty responsible with its landmines, but the failure of such a major nation to agree to treaties bannning mines has resulted in many less responsible nations refusing to do so either.

    These autonomous sentries are a lot easier to spot and deactivate, and considerably less likely to be forgotten about. They're not exactly pleasant but far better than the alternative.

    1. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by donotlizard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Those things remind me of the robot sentry units in the Special Edition of Aliens.

    2. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      Most people who work on defence projects only see a small part of the systems they work on. There are a lot of technologies here. Optical processing, radar tracking. All of that has civilian applications and it is likely some of the software is commercial. Likewise the two axis mount for this device looks much like a mount for a CCTV camera or a telescope. The few people who actually know they are working on weapons probably do it for the money. Its a job like any other.

    3. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by ShakaUVM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >>I guess you're right, it's the lesser evil. Still, I find it scaring and can't understand what makes a human being work day after day to design and manufacture such an evil device. Clumsy and random, as Obi-Wan would put it.

      Maybe it was designed by a bunch of guys who didn't want to see their friends killed and wives raped.

      Weapons aren't evil when used to defend oneself.

    4. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by 91degrees · · Score: 2

      True, but there are a lot of aspect to "don't want to", and they need a better excuse than that in the face of public and international pressure. "We need to defend the DMZ/surround our camps with landmines" can be countered with "You can use these instead." "The US is still using them" can only be countered with the US no longer using them. Even less ethical arguments such as "The weapons manufacturers like the money" can be countered with "The weapons manufacturers are quite happy to sell you these instead", because I'm sure they are.

    5. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sarcasm aside, what troubles me is that those defensive weapons are not about defense, it's about eliminating any (by any I mean literally 100%) risk for defender.

      Why should a defender expose himself to risk when by definition he is likely not the one at fault here? How can such a defensive solution be "applied" except by an attacker first attacking?

      It's not like they're going to turret crawl to Pyonyang... Wait...

      The national passtime of South Korea is StarCraft... Siege Tank crawl... My God, it suddenly makes sense! Oh hell! WE'RE FUCKED!

      --
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    6. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The national passtime of South Korea is StarCraft... Siege Tank crawl... My God, it suddenly makes sense! Oh hell! WE'RE FUCKED!

      North Korea has a lot of very cheap units, while the South has a lot of very powerful, but expensive units.
      It's pretty much a Zerg vs Protoss battle.
      All the South has to do is survive the initial rush. After that, their eventual victory is pretty much assured.

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    7. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      I'm fairly certain (I recall seeing these before?) the turret CAN run autonomously, however they are supposed to be supervised and do not engage unless an operator confirms it. The operator(s) have access to zooming cameras in the unit under both visible and infrared spectra.

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    8. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      I cannot confirm or deny the degree to which any particular power/entity does these things; but the steps to landmine responsibility are actually pretty clear:

      1. Good mapping: So you want to do some area denial? Please be damned sure about exactly what area you are denying, and write it down. GPS fixes per mine are now technologically feasible, and are ideal; but accurate boundaries of minefields are the absolute baseline.

      2. Intelligent fuzes/case breakdown designs: Your classic mine is a waterproof box with a mechanical or mechanical/chemical trigger. Lasts an unpredictable amount of time, often in the multiple decades, and sometimes gets touchier as it ages. At a minefield level, even 100 years of waiting may well not be enough. More advanced mines, either by means of an electronic fuze with a RTC or by means of a case and explosives design with more predictable degradation under field conditions, can be set to either detonate or disarm themselves after a period of time, placing a reasonably hard limit on the active lifetime of a given minefield.

      Obviously, the world is hard and neither technique is perfect. Land shifts, erosion does its thing, electronics fail, etc.; but somebody doing the above will make post-conflict minesweeping easier, cheaper, and safer than will somebody not doing them.

      In general, larger national military forces are probably more likely to be responsible than smaller or more irregular ones: They tend not to go to war planning to lose, so they keep maps because they will want to demine their conquests/holdings(The Faulkland islands, for instance, were mined pretty heavily; but the miners had no intention of losing them, so the maps are excellent...) They also have the money for fancy "smart mines" and the nosy journalists who can be shut up with techie-lust stories of a more bloodless smart mine. Irregular forces often don't exactly have a GIS corps, and are more likely to be relying on whatever semi-expired crates of surplus they can score on the grey/black market, so their mines are likely to be heterogeneous and highly unpredictable.

      On the other hand, while they tend to be a bit more tasteful with mines, the big guys tend to have a much larger issue with "cluster submunitions"...

    9. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by Vectormatic · · Score: 2

      shooting immoral vermin would require a weapon (and ammunition), which according to you, are only manufactured by immoral vermin.... which means you require immoral vermin to not have any immoral vermin.

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    10. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I'm sure some even consider working to keep their family and friends and countrymen a little safer from being overrun and losing all their freedoms a noble and worthwhile cause.

    11. Re:There's a really useful aspect to these. by BeanThere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess you're right, it's the lesser evil. Still, I find it scaring and can't understand what makes a human being work day after day to design and manufacture such an evil device.

      Don't worry, when your next door neighbor wants to blow you to smithereens just for existing, you will finally understand.

      The world has bad people in it. Good people need to defend themselves from bad people so civilization can continue. It's really that simple. Civilization can exist only as a small, ephemeral clearing carved out in a metaphorical forest of chaos; you live entirely within the clearing. The clearing is always under attack, but you live entirely within the clearing, so you never actually see what is happening at the fringes of that clearing in order to hold back the forces that would otherwise overwhelm the clearing.

  4. Mutual destruction with conventional weapons? by captainpanic · · Score: 2

    At some point, they have enough conventional weapons that they can guarantee each other's destruction even without the need of nukes.

  5. Maintenance by Nineteen-Delta · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd hate to be the maintenance guy: "You sure this thing's been swithced off?" "Sure thing, go right ahead...." "Okay, it's a four kilometer hike, and don't turn it back on until I've checked it, and walked back...."

  6. Great detectors too by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Funny

    What's really great about these turrets is that besides being able to fire missiles long range, they can also detect cloaked units up to 7 spaces away. This is especially useful for detecting ghosts and wraiths.

  7. Tower defense, the real world version. by qwerty8ytrewq · · Score: 2

    just send in cardboard cutouts on Segways until the turret runs out of ammo. I wonder if they would shoot at someone walking on their hands, or maybe you can program them to only shoot people with bad fashion/hair...hmmmm

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    Waiting for the other shoe to...
  8. Total Speculation by gsslay · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you read the "story" you will see that the entire DMZ angle is entirely speculation. The writer doesn't know if this weapon is used there or not, but that doesn't stop him waffling on about it, before admitting its all speculation at the end.

    1. Re:Total Speculation by AltairDusk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It does make sense though, the DMZ is one of the only places where you could deploy a "shoot on sight" weapon like this in fully autonomous mode.

  9. Question by ledow · · Score: 2

    Do they have limited ammo with a cool retro yellow-black interface, which ticks down to zero with appropriate warnings, is fooled by throwing an empty bucket in front of it, and which exhausts its entire ammo supply in under 30 seconds?

    Either way, the Aliens:Special Edition guys probably would like to have a look at them.

  10. Unless they can move or be moved easily ... by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    .... they're a sitting duck for a missile or shelling to take them out.

    1. Re:Unless they can move or be moved easily ... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      For the "high octane nightmare fuel"/"judgement day" effect, I recommend a collaboration between this automated gun turret and the slightly creepy "Bigdog" robot...

  11. That'd make.... by Ynot_82 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ....one hell of a Top Gear episode

    We'll start off here, in Busan, South Korea
    and race up the east coast into the demilitarised zone between N & S Korea
    Avoiding the barrage of automatic gun fire, we'll hurtle into North Korea

    Now, as many western maps have no details on the layout of North Korea, we'll all become James May for the day, and probably get lost
    But by mid-afternoon we must have traversed west through North Korea, and begin our journey back south down the western coast

    Again, avoiding the barrage of automatic gun fire as we pass into South Korea, we'll finish the race in a town called Gwangju for a traditional Korean evening meal (which Hammond won't eat)

    1. Re:That'd make.... by Vectormatic · · Score: 2

      and to top it off, they all get a budget of 1000 dollars, and are only allowed to buy hyundais!

      I can see it now, Clarkson welding several tons of plate steel to a 1600 pound hyundai excel to make it bullet proof

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      People, what a bunch of bastards
    2. Re:That'd make.... by maroberts · · Score: 2

      Forget May and Clarkson, they'd stand out too much. With a little skin/hair dye and a haircut, Richard Hammond might pass for a local ....

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    3. Re:That'd make.... by gsslay · · Score: 2

      Does Clarkson get shot? His insistence at taking all corners sideways would make for a lovely wide target. That would definitely be worth seeing. Otherwise... meh.

  12. Re:They phased them in relatively recently by vegiVamp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So they recently phased in autoturrets because of a 1976 incident ? Talk about swift action.

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    What a depressingly stupid machine.
  13. But do they by FunPika · · Score: 4, Funny

    have extremely cute voices?

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  14. There are no defensive weapons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I tend not to get too excited by weapons since they are designed to kill people. Still, these are primarily defensive.

    There are no such things as defensive or "primarily defensive" weapons. Or pehaps it would be more accurate to admit that there are such but the distinction is completely irrelevant.

    Let's imagine that during the cold war one of the sides would have came up with a technology that would have given them 100% protection from the opponent's missiles. This would have been primarily defensive technology (and one that protects the civilian population!) but it obviously would have meant that the side gets a massive offensive advantage (as the other side can't retaliate). Or let's imagine that a nation occupies another nation and then uses primarily defensive weapons to hold those areas under control (to prevent the attacks of the resistance movement and such). Is that offensive or defensive? In nearly any imaginable conflict, the attacker also needs to defend itself and as such it doesn't really matter whether a weapon is defensive or not.

    You could make a point that the defensive weapons help keep the current situation stable (Let's deploy those to every border of every nation and if they're efficient enough... Whoo! No war!) but that doesn't really matter unless we know that the current situation is and will be the preferred one. There are (and will be) plenty of dictatorships that will use the newest defensive technologies to prevent revolutions. I know that I'm somewhat stretching the literal meaning of the word but I'd still like to say that sometimes keeping the situation stable is equivalent to an offensive action (That a cruel dictator is equivalent to an occupying force)... Now, some entities always can defeat the newest technologies, others can't. This essentially means that every time a new (defensive) weapon is created, more power is concentrated to the entities that are already the most rich and powerful. That's the only stability that those create.

    As for those being alternative to land mines... Interesting point. I bet that those are (and will be, for the foreseaable future) so much more expensive than landmines, though, that it won't be "either-or". It will probably be "landmines" or "both".

    1. Re:There are no defensive weapons by modecx · · Score: 2

      Completely ridiculous. This is more or less a high-tech version of the Maginot Line, and even then, not as capable... It's a last measure against infantry/infiltrators who can move through dense forest, unknown to the defenders (South Korea), as the attackers (North Korea) have been known to employ. It doesn't move, it doesn't actively seek or engage targets. i.e. by any rational definition, it's a defensive weapon. Even if there isn't a clear distinction between defensive and offensive weapons as you hold, there is a difference between defensive and offensive strategy; and as such, there are weapons which are suited to a particular strategy, and typically a weapon which is exceedingly useful for one strategy is totally ill-suited for the other.

      Example: stationary, small caliber, unarmored turret robots pretty much suck for offense. Even a minimally capable 1930's army wouldn't have much issue defeating such a system (once they knew where it was.) Strap an autocannon (or mortar), some armor and tracks on it--then we can talk about an offensive weapon.

      --
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  15. Re:I'm just glad by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have worked in South Korea and believe me they take security seriously. I didn't see any Security Theatre at all while I was there. There were lots of guns and fences though.

  16. What about the beta testers by hannson · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here's a video on Youtube showing the prototype during testing, I'm sure it's only a glitch.

  17. Devices are not evil. by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > Weapons aren't evil when used to defend oneself.

    Weapons are not evil. To be evil requires the capacity for good, Some "evil" people are not evil because they lack this trait; they are insane.

    Even the ICJ has admitted that nuclear weapons might be legitimately used in some circumstances, for example.

    And enough rifles will kill as many people as died at Hiroshima, or Dresden. Or under Stalin.

    A weapon is a tool, to be used or abused or destroyed or thrown away. Your point--"when used to defend oneself"--shows that It is what we do with the weapon that establishes moral worth.

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  18. Asimov would like to know... by vvpt · · Score: 2

    ...what ever happened to the Three Laws of Robotics?

  19. autofocus Infra-Red sensor by digitaldc · · Score: 2

    Defeat the ability of the 'autofocus Infra-Red sensor' and the weapon is rendered useless.

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    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  20. Not autonomous... by dss2000 · · Score: 2

    ... remote controlled. This turrets still require a human being for firing from a remote secure location. They can be connected by wire (ethernet) or wireless. Yes, i not only did RTFA, but also read the promotional poster of the weapon itself.

  21. Re:Targeting? by indifferent+children · · Score: 2

    No. In fact the US/ROK military has had a problem (at least into the 1980s) with their human-detecting radar alerting on Manchurian cranes in the DMZ. Any moving creature big enough to register at all, registers as "target".

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  22. Re:Targeting? by __aayejd672 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I can see a large call for midgets in the army coming soon.

  23. Zapp Branigan by __aayejd672 · · Score: 2

    I just sent wave after wave of men until the killbots simply reached their kill limit of 999,999 then swept them off the floor.

  24. Re:Just another Remote Weapon System (RWS). by jojoba_oil · · Score: 3

    The original url looks about the same size as the tinyurl: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Kongsberg+RWS. Oh wait, am I reducing your ability to track people who click your link? I'm sorry.

    Or are you just trying to hide the fact that the final landing is http://www.google.com/search?q=Kongsberg+RWS (again, not long enough to warrant a shortener)?

  25. Re:They phased them in relatively recently by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2

    Actually the idea is that you can always claim that a soldier disobeyed orders. You can always claim that one person was aggressive and trigger happy. It is a lot less credible claim to say that a robot that record everything did the same.

    Also the fact that every year South Korean soldiers are injured in the DMZ probably plays a role in the decision, too.

    --
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