Slashdot Mirror
EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Bees
hether writes "The mystery of the disappearing bees has been baffling scientists for years and now we get another big piece in the puzzle. From Fast Company: 'A number of theories have popped up as to why the North American honey bee population has declined — electromagnetic radiation, malnutrition, and climate change have all been pinpointed. Now a leaked EPA document reveals that the agency allowed the widespread use of a bee-toxic pesticide, despite warnings from EPA scientists.' Now environmentalists and bee keepers are calling for an immediate ban of the pesticide clothianidin, sold by Bayer Crop Science under the brand name Poncho."
What a bunch of stupid niggers.
sounds like a wetback to me!
This will certainly cause quite a buzz!
Also, it's apparently used in the UK. Are only North American bees susceptible to this? The article says:
Clothianidin has already been banned by Germany, France, Italy, and Slovenia for its toxic effects.
What about the UK, Russia, China or anyone else? Wouldn't you be able to do surveys on bees inside the UK versus say Germany to get some empirical data to back this up?
I'm not a fan of pesticides but I won't deny that they increase food and crop yield. I'm not a chemist or environmental expert so if anyone can explain a little more why this can be considered a key part of CCD, I'd be grateful.
My work here is dung.
Treason. Execute everyone involved.
Hmmm and i thought the "P" stood for Protection, but clearly its something to do with Profits and or Pressure.... what a freakin sellout i bet they were pressured to allow more profits by the big agribusiness lobbyists... i guess agribusiness will be the first to cry foul when their crops no longer get fertilised....
I'm safe because I'm always wearing my tinfoil hat.
We need to make tinfoil hats for all of the bees now so that they will be safe too.
I'm a hacker so I know about this kind of stuff.
Dear feds:
Buzz off.
What? A Slasdot article that says government=good, private industry=bad. This is so out of character. /sarcasm-off
Didn't they recently announce discovery of the primary cause for the bee-deaths?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I work in seed enhancement, fortunately, I don't order clothianidin (Poncho) from Bayer Crop Science. However I do order Thiram, Captan and Allegiance (aka Apron FL) from Bayer. Most of these chemicals are used to control pythium, however I've always wondered if these were responsible for the bee hive die offs.
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
It's just like the BP Gulf oil spill and the coal mine explosion in West Virginia. There are systems in place to protect people and the environment, but when the Republicans gain control they stop all oversight. It takes five to fifteen years to see all the failures, and by then everyone forgets who turned over control to the crooks and lairs.
They just wave the flag, blame everything on the government bureaucrats and illegal aliens, scream about the war on terror, and then lie and deny when the shit hits the fan. I guess as long as these morons continue to lie and cheat their way into power we deserve to have poisoned gulf seafood and the end of flowering crops.
Don't worry, you can just consume more high fructose processed food and get diabetes. The corn/agribusiness lobby will continue to do just fine with their massive tax breaks and government subsidies, and they're so rich that they can afford imported fruits and vegetables. If you get sick and loose your health care you can crawl off and die, and that will solve them problem.
Why is Snark Required?
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how did this stay hidden so long
warning pointless sig
also have suffered a dramatic drop in numbers.
I think the issue with the treating of seeds is the insecticide becomes part of the plant (the systemic feature)
so when the bees do their thing they are getting residual contact.
At least that is how the systemics I used work but that was for drenching the leafy matter or watering the plant with it.
No experience with systemics drenching seed product..
Come again ?
North american bee population has been declining, scientists estimated that in a few decades this would affect everything in agriculture (pollination), and trying to solve it. it was even dubbed end of mankind. it was that serious.
Now it turns out that, your government has allowed bee-killing pesticides. noone heard about it. no journalist made news of it. no ngo was warned of it. NOONE KNEW. if wikileaks didnt leak it, you would not know about it, still.
tell me now, who are the real terrorists ? the ones letting you know that your entire ecosystem and agriculture is being killed by corporations which have been allowed by your government, or, those corporations and the government themselves ?
wise up. support wikileaks. it is giving you the control over your government that was taken away from you.
Read radical news here
So when anything bad happens involving some private enterprise, someone on here usually has some stupid comment like "I thought the free market would make life perfect."
Well, let me be the one to offer a hypothesis: people are no good and there is no perfect system because of people. Or if we want to be sarcastic too "I thought government regulators were going to make life perfect."
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Focus on forums that do not use rel=nofollow on their links, or better yet, find yourself a real job.
I guess they wouldn't go to ilovebees.com...
why is the above post modded down ? because its too disturbing to see uncomfortable truth ?
Read radical news here
You've insinuated gross incompetence on the part of the researchers. Have you actually gone out and tried to find the answers to these questions? Are you qualified in the field to question the research? Or are you just going off the article, which is a summary of research that was almost undoubtedly much more in-depth than a journalists' summary?
I consider myself a strong skeptic, but one of the duties of a skeptic is to realize their limits. I don't attend a graduate-level lecture and start asking questions - I'd be asked to leave, or at least laughed at. So when I'm confronted with something that doesn't seem right, I seek more information. You're not. You're just throwing out questions. Rather slanted ones.
I see this often, and I suspect it is an actual class of logical fallacy...
1)A slashdotter posts a series of slanted questions and wondering-alouds that are very FUD-ish.
2)The questions aren't (properly) answered, because the audience (jokes about parent's basements aside) doesn't have much knowledge on the subject. Or, the answers that are qualified aren't noticed by moderators.
3)The questions, which are more a challenge to refute a contrary viewpoint to the article than anything else, appear to be valid because there's no response visible. And thus what was probably perfectly legitimate research gets shot down by someone with no background in the subject. Probably not even a mild background in research.
Lastly: the burden of proof no longer rests on the shoulders of the public. After decades of the chemical industry producing toxins and marketing them for uses which were harmful, then doing everything to cover it all up...they are no longer entitled to public trust. If you want to manufacture a chemical and spray it on thousands of square miles of farmland, you better prove first that it doesn't cause problems.
This is especially so, given that research shows that old farming techniques and organic practices are equally or more effective, and cause no permanent damage to people or the environment. Virtually none of the artificial stuff spread on the farmlands of the world are *necessary*, even if one's sole criteria is increased yield.
If anyone wants to see another scary example of this "what, me worry?" attitude, check out methyl iodide, a known toxin, which was just approved for use by California:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fn%2Fa%2F2010%2F12%2F01%2Fnational%2Fa143424S98.DTL&tsp=1
"Hey, it's okay to spread this toxic crap all over the ground, because we'll only use what we think is just enough, and people want pretty strawberries."
Please help metamoderate.
I think it's time to consider banning EPA itself. Seriously, those fuckers are a joke. Kill it with fire and replace with something that has more teeth. Do the same to FDA as well.
This sounds bad, and I admit that this is the first I've heard about this particular pesticide being especially toxic to bees, but let's not get carried away. The longstanding mystery of Colony Collapse Disorder in bees has pretty much been solved. A few months ago, it was published that a double whammy of a fungus and a virus acting at the same time are almost certainly what have decimated bee populations around the world. A bee colony can usually survive either of the two pathogens, and it will recover, but being hit by both at the same time is deadly. The science behind this conclusion looked sound, and most experts have agreed. Sure, this pesticide has clearly not helped bees, and perhaps a ban is in order, but it is not the main factor behind all the recent hubbub about honeybees.
I don't want to hear anything about evil electromagnetic radiation, cell phones, wifi, government conspiracies, aliens, a grassy knoll, or malnutrition induced by an exploding pooh bear population. The answer is simple and makes sense. Bee populations have suffered around the world, including where there is neither ubiquitous wifi nor this pesticide, and the virus/fungus combo has been found everywhere anyone has looked. Now, maybe aliens brought the virus and communists spread the fungus, but...
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
My father is an entomologist for a university Extension Service. For those who don't know (non-Americans), the Extension Services are outreach arms of the universities set up to provide advice to the public. His main job is to advise farmers on pest control measures for crops, mostly cotton; the advice is often "if you spray to kill pest A, you'll also kill predator B, which eats pest C which is resistant to insecticide, and C will eat your cotton. So don't do anything and put up with A, they won't eat that much."
Many of the meetings are sponsored by chemical companies. There are responsible uses of insecticides; used wisely, some insecticides can provide a cost-effective way to increase yields with very minimal long-term environmental harm. But the chemical companies are corrupt as hell. They try to bribe the scientists with lavish gifts to publish studies that favor their products, and encourage farmers (and scientists) to use too much insecticide, or use it when it's not really appropriate. It's sham science done for the sake of greed, and it is disgusting.
On the flip side, there are "studies" that show environmental harm where there really isn't any -- either by misguided "everything must be grown organically" types, or by people pushing back against the chemical company propaganda.
It's hard to tell a damn thing from "studies" on this sort of thing, because everyone is so busy grinding axes that who's right and who's wrong gets completely lost. This makes me, as a scientist in another field where there is far less of that, rather angry.
couldn't they?
It was never that serious. It is a sad thing to see the Bees go, but others will take their place. Birds, bumble bees, and many other insects / animals carry out pollination already. Bees were the main pollinators but if they go something else will rise up and take its place in the food chain.
Bayer: the people who gave us Heroin.
really
How we know is more important than what we know.
You need to relax. It's quite simple if you understand Friedmannite economics. Cutting corporate taxes and deregulation will resolve all of our problems. The Free Market will come up with a cheaper, better solution to bee pollination.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Honey bees aren't indigenous to North America, they were brought over by Europeans in the 17th century. So in killing all honey bees the pesticide company is just setting things right. Way to be Mother Natures sword Bayer!
I'm trying to understand why the fuss over this particular bee killing insecticide. The article reads as if it's the only EPA approved, bee-toxic pesticide. It's not. Carbaryl (trade name Sevin) is a VERY widely used insecticide that's toxic to honey bees. Worse, the bees tend not to die before they carry the stuff back to their hives, so it tends to build up there and kill large numbers of them.
There's a good chance you have some Carbaryl in your house. It's very popular as a lawn and garden insecticide. It's also commonly used in flea powders and collars.
It's also relatively toxic to cats.
The EPA as a whole isn't the problem. It's that thin, but corrupt as hell, veneer between the scientists and the policy makers that is the problem. There are so many stories of corruption (like the administrator who edited a climate change report then went to work for Big Oil) like this. But, no substantial changes will ever occur since our country has gone over the Fascism cliff. We are totally at the beck and call of corporate interests now. Yes, I'm saying our country is on its death bed.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
My first thought is that some EPA boss got paid off by Bayer Crop Science to rubber stamp this. It sounds too much like the guy who showed all of the high accuracy computer models showing exactly what would happen if the dikes around New Orleans were not strengthened. GW Bush suggested that the war in Iraq with all of the weapons of mass destruction was too important to slow up on. The storm came, thousands died. Now all we need is some right wing nut jobs questioning the science, questioning whether the bees really died or whether they are only sleeping, questioning whether the toxin is really at fault or maybe, maybe something else that is just some kind of coincidence, and that those silly scientists can't possibly be right because there is just too darn much money to be made, and besides, who needs all those bees anyway. All we need is one right wing nut job with a trust fund to come along and say that he saw bees not pollenating plants, but eating them, and that the lack of bees means more food for all of us! And since we can't make money on bees, then its better that they are gone. Besides, bees can't vote for any right wing tax cut bills, so bees aren't really good for anything. Go ahead, I await the nut jobs.
... then what are few lousy bees? Think about it !!
Always looking out for corporate interests.
These leaks MUST be stopped immediately, and those responsible must go to jail for life, and execution may even be warranted. I am sure the EPA will be acting quickly to ensure those responsible for the leaks are rapidly brought to justice.
This is a clear and dire threat to national security, and the leakers are traitors; think of what will happen when the Bees find out the nature of the pesticide, and the informants who formulated it!
This will only serve to cause more incidents of bee attacks against us, costing precious human lives.
Lives are at stake; and the leakers are enemy combatants performing an act of terrorism
<sarcasm>
Sepp Hasslberger, Millions of bees dead - Bayer's Gaucho blamed, started November 26, 2003:
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/11/26/millions_of_bees_dead_bayers_gaucho_blamed.htm
Here we are. When they released the locations of targets, they became terrorists.
When they realease information like this, they are public servants.
There is no contradiction. Gangsters often serve their communities in some capacity. That way, when the cops come through, nobody wants to rat them out because they bought some nice old lady a Cadillac, or they cleaned the streets, or they did some swift justice on a rapist. They're still gangsters.
Doing some good doesn't absolve you of your evil. That's just not how it works.
It's a pity really, because responsible release of information that really is a leak, such as this EPA business, is a great thing. Releasing information that is not a leak, and that might cause headaches for the legitimate defense of the nation, is terrorism.
To recap. You can be a terrorist, and still do some good. You still have to pay for your terrorist acts.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
let me get this straight... a branch (no matter how lousily connected) of our (speaking as an American) government... approved something that has a negative impact? wake up and smell the beans, our government has been doing this for about 30~ years (as much history i care to read at 24, i already know humanity is fucked).. gotta love this: """That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.""" --- go ahead, try it, so i can laugh at you being labeled a terrorist or defamed, or "blackballed"... our government has grown so big that its impossible to stop, we will pass up china soon and when that point comes... well fill in the blank... the US WILL become worse then China, I guarantee it (totally influenced by a mens warehouse commercial)
The bee issue has been going on for some time now... I'm glad that we are finally making headway in finding what caused it.
There have been a few good documentaries discussing the drop in bees (though mostly about bee keepers) that have popped up as I've flipped the channels in past years.
I hope the fine is at lest 3 - 4x what they made in profit from the sale... and then ongoing corrective action to address the issue.
While being a strong capitalist, I also strongly believe that organizations have need to act in a manner that is socially aware.
This, is the exact oppostive. Bayer, and the EPA should be ashamed of themselves.
Here we are. When they released the locations of targets, they became terrorists.
rest of the world doesnt give a flying fsck about american cia operatives who participated in kidnapping ,or american soldiers who have participated voluntarily in occupations, are being targeted or not. its their choice, their life. they should ask themselves, what are they doing there, in the first place.
what is appalling is that, there are people who are basically saying that we should be sorry for cia operatives who kidnapped german citizens or other nationals from the middle of europe, took them to bases in client countries in middle east, and tortured them. and, anyone revealing the location of these people, are 'terrorists'.
the real terrorists are people who kidnap others, and torture them. the world doesnt give a flying fuck about the 'lives' endangered by wikileaks' leaks as such. they are the terrorists which should have been hunted for that long time. they have even violated constitutions and sovereignty of ALLIED countries.
To recap. get a fucking clue. you dont know right from wrong.
Read radical news here
That's how it's thougt to have worked here in Germany
At the time the seeds were put into the soil it was unusually dry. The wid blew the pesticide into the air, together with dust.
It was quite effective (with the bees).
But I must admit that spouting off stuff instead of doing some research is more fun.
Or shall I call you Mr. Bayer?
I was reading just yesterday that the bee population was being affected by a combination of a virus and a fungus and that this is the main reason for the decline.
I bet this is in the Wikileaks too...
Hmm, is that why we had an INSANE amount of bees here in Finland this summer? They were literally everywhere, and in large colonies. They were even out at sea and in the archipelago, which is somewhat rare.
While WikiLeaks is a current and exciting topic, the clothianidin/EPA leak has nothing to do with WikiLeaks.
Quoting a prominent secondary story linked from TFA:
While WikiLeaks is a current and exciting topic, the clothianidin/EPA leak has nothing to do with WikiLeaks.
Thank you!
Somebody probably got confused because TFA is titled, "Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Document Shows It Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees"
Here is the EU data on the pesticide.
Some highlights: It is an insecticide, so it should not really surprise that it kills bees. The toxitity to honey bees is well known (LD50 = 0.004 ug/bee, which the document interpret as "high" risk). And it is approved for use in most EU countries, including Italy and Germany.
The FDA? The FDA is extremely aggressive and restrictive compared to European regulators for instance. This results in drugs reaching the U.S. market much later. One can argue that this delay causes more damage than by introducing drugs a bit earlier.
Enough with the crazy doomsaying.
Capitalism will solve this problem as all the others. Soon Monsanto will be announcing genetically modified bees that will resist to the pesticide.
All will be well, except that these bees will somehow kill all cows. At which point Monsanto will give us those better, iron-skinned OGM cows they are working on *right* *now*.
They are incredibly strong and resistant, so much that your head will explode when you try to chew their meat. Enter the OGM humans. They can shoot laser beams and fly and have two dicks. All is well but Monsanto does not produce females to avoid stealing their patented DNA. The human race will last other 30 years in masturbation and vanish.
As you can see everything will work out perfectly.
This move doesn't surprise me as these people at EPA are all but drones ...
You need to relax. It's quite simple if you understand Friedmannite economics. Cutting corporate taxes and deregulation will resolve all of our problems. The Free Market will come up with a cheaper, better solution to bee pollination.
Actually large-scale farms which want everything pollinated and thus ready for harvest in one go purchase the services of large-scale beekeepers, which drive farmed bees to the area in hive trucks and leave them there while they pollinate. By the time they die off it's mission accomplished, and growing bees artificially wherever you want isn't under threat like the naturally occurring bees that pollinate wild flowers.
The "free market (i.e. people earning a living) have already figured out the pollination of food crops, it's an environmental issue. (And not a calamitous one, but one that justifies some good research and reevaluation of the rules, which is a process of improvement that this article and discussion form a part of.)
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
It was never that serious. It is a sad thing to see the Bees go, but others will take their place. Birds, bumble bees, and many other insects / animals carry out pollination already. Bees were the main pollinators but if they go something else will rise up and take its place in the food chain.
Something else will take their place in the food chain, sure - but it's very likely to be something that doesn't help pollinate flowers. Most things don't.
Umm.. even the DoD has stated that there was no information that lead to deaths released by wikileaks. So how are they terrorists again?
Assassinate that traitorous whistleblower!
Actually large-scale farms which want everything pollinated and thus ready for harvest in one go purchase the services of large-scale beekeepers, which drive farmed bees to the area in hive trucks and leave them there while they pollinate. By the time they die off it's mission accomplished, and growing bees artificially wherever you want isn't under threat like the naturally occurring bees that pollinate wild flowers.
Except that it's the colonies used by commercial beekeepers that are among the hardest-hit by CCD, and their replenishment programs can't keep up with the loss. If a cure for CCD can't be found, in a few years the supply of hives will be lower than the demand for pollination services.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
refined sugar... not good for bee!
Now it turns out that, your government has allowed bee-killing pesticides.
And that's not even the half of it. What kind of idiot company would bother to sell bee-lethal pesticides?! No bees no crops, no crops, no need to buy more pesticide!
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
The study you are referencing was made by Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk, who has economical ties to Bayer (The producer of the pesticide cited). Ref: NYT via http://www.ktradionetwork.com/tag/dr-jerry-bromenshenk/
I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
To be fair, the title of the article is "Wik-Bee Leaks", which I only now understand to be an irresponsible pun.
It was some months back, but it was posted here on Slashdot. Wasn't there some discussion about combinations of chemicals and infection that was at the root? That one of the two individually wouldn't harm a bee? I guess I need to search this out. But what if this chemical is part of the insecticide? I guess then it would all start to make sense.
And the market wins again.
When demand outstrips supply the suppliers can up their prices. They'll make a lot more money.
Now, since the food growers can't get enough bees to pollinate their crops, the supply of food will dwindle - more expensive food, meaning more money for the growers.
This means that regular workers have to work more to buy the same amount and kinds of food. That means the supply of workers will outstrip demand and salaries can be cut. That's another win for the market and the companies in particular.
It's Win/Win/Win for the market economy - what's not to like?
And that's exactly why it's called "organic". Think of it this way: "all-natural" only means all-natural AFTER the harvest. But "organic" means all-natural before AND after the harvest. They needed a way to differentiate, to adapt to changing market conditions, and that's precisely why the term "organic" came into widespread use. It's not just marketing; it's necessary terminology.
Organic farmers may use only organic pest control (which does exist), never chemical pesticides. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to use the organic label, and if they do, they are breaking the law.
Then this bugger needs to pay for his crimes!
"...butt... buttt.. butt the Poncho!" - Honer Jay Simpson
Thank goodness we have the EPA and government regulation to protect us from the free market. Oh wait...
of what happens when we let the foxes guard the hen house. i would think the people here would learn by now with the half dozen other examples..
End Use Products
This product is toxic to aquatic invertebrates. Do not apply directly to water or to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the mean high-water mark. Do not contaminate water when cleaning equipment or disposing of equipment washwaters. Do not apply where runoff is likely to occur. Runoff from treated areas may be hazardous to aquatic organisms in neighboring areas. Apply this product only as specified on the label. This chemical has properties and characteristics associated with chemicals detected in ground water. The use of this chemical in areas where soils are permeable, particularly where the water table is shallow, may result in ground water contamination.
This compound is toxic to birds and mammals. Treated clothianidin seeds exposed on soil surface may be hazardous to birds and mammals. Cover or collect clothianidin seeds spilled during loading.
This compound is toxic to honey bees. The persistence of residues and potential residual toxicity of Clothianidin in nectar and pollen suggests the possibility of chronic toxic risk to honey bee larvae and the eventual instability of the hive.
Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
In Soviet USA the bees kill firs...
...ok, I'll show myself out.
You mean the Umbrella Corporation is about to present its Zombie Bees? Do you know if they plan to use T or G-Virus to resurrect the ambulating bee-hives? I realise that this is the libertarian way, but I for see unforeseen consequences..
Yea, but leaks a bad... mmmkay?
The obligatory disclaimer:
"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
I saw a documentary where the bees went on a sorta strike - I really couldn't follow the details - something about ownership of their honey. It nearly crippled the planet, and made everybody very sad.
Bees are pretty scary too, apparently they can lift a whole airbus! I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it.
This is the biggest non-news story ever.....guess what, rocket scientists. Virtually EVERY pesticide is toxic to bees. The method/location of application is how you are supposed to target specific pests, and avoid exposure to non-target species...
Irresponsible and inflammatory journalism at it's finest.....
Destroy the corn. Starve the people. Save the earth
are government dubbed them that i don't think the people ever said anything like that bought wikileaks. personalty i support them. hopefully it gets the sheep to stop voting for these ass-hats messing up everything. of curse i will admit oboma played the sheep big time he promised to sake up everything and wound up worse then bush in terms of being a puppet.
Here you go. A little education goes a long way, chief.
Thank you. Your insightful post has given me a thoughtful storking.
My new favorite line is "If Wikileaks didn't leak, you would not know it.".
I wish I could've read the second paragraph outloud to a group of people. Noonie Knew! (I know there's no "i", but my eyes stumbled over that word while reading it, and it's hilarious.)
Oh yeah, and we're all doomed. But, thanks to Wikileaks we now know exactly who to blame. The most obvious suspects.
While you are technically correct that Wikileaks isn't behind this particular leak, it's the ***CONCEPT*** of leaking critical information to the populace that Wikileaks is particularly successful at embodying. So really, the spirit of the comment from the original parent applies.
AC
ps: Hah! Captcha is "pedant"! ;-)
And if the authorities let Assange go, I'm sure the free market will find a cheaper and better way to silence him.
No way! I am not a bee killer! I knew nothing of the pesticides, it's just blatant lies. LIES! Why are you blaming this on me?
Sincerely,
Noone
Now it turns out that, your government has allowed bee-killing pesticides. noone heard about it.
Yes, clothianidin is something people didn't knew. But just going to the hardware store I could point out half a dozen bee-killing insecticides. The hint: if the advertisement says something about killing 2000 different bugs, it probably kills bees.
One problem with insecticides is that they are too broad in their range, the other problem is however their use. Some states prohibit use of pyrethrins near lakes. But almost about anywhere can you buy attachments for your garden hose to treat the whole lawn.
All because the lawn has to be pristine, and as extension of our living room as bug free and uniform as a carpet. If one could change that view a lot fewer chemicals would end up in the environment.
I use pyrethrin around the house as a perimeter spray to keep ants out in the Spring. But I use it on the foundation wall and on the ground away from plants, especially flowering plants. To treat ants, one can wash it into the ground. I wouldn't use it on my lawn, if not for the bees, then at least not to kill all of the pavement ants and create a bug-wasteland that has room for other -more problematic- ants to move in.
This sin't the cause. The disappear from area that don't uuse this, so stop the fuckluing knee jerl reaction now.
This is the same type of knee jerk reaction that lead to DDT banning, even thought the only evidence it was doing in harm was a very weak correlation to condor egg shells.
So now people dye, parasite are coming back, but it's hard as hell to get the OK to manufacture.
This is the same damn thing. No one will report on the actual facts and data and a bunch of bone headed environmentalist will get all the air time.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Maybe we should ban people who don't know jack shit about the agencys that want to ban and only read headline and make gross assumption about conclusion? The internet would be far better off without you fuckers on it.
It's a insecticide, and ti kills an insect? I'm shocked I tell you, simply shocked.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
wiki-leaks din't leak it. It was an anonymous phone call from someone claiming they work for the EPA. Hell, it wasn't even the nefarious. Someone asked the EPA for the study and the EPA gave it to them. ohhh... real evil their!!
Of course, there sin't a link between this and CCD, but lets not let facts stand in your way.
AN example how the government is pretty transparent, and makes a lot of data available to a lot of people. It's a good thing.
But no, someone twists it into the end of the world and the nefarious EPA uare twisting the moustaches and laughing at us.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Haha you are funny if you think that the free market will simply mean growers make more money. The reality is that growers are price takers, not price setters. And they don't get to take the price that the end consumer is willing to pay either. They get the price the large food companies are willing to pay. And because of farm subsidies, food companies are always guaranteed to find commodities elsewhere if the producer doesn't want to sell. The only leverage against this kind of market behavior is to have farms enter into cooperatives, as they have in times past.
The price of commodity goods does track the price of the final food products, but not very closely and always on the low side. High commodity prices immediately leads to high food prices, but when commodity prices drop, food prices do not fall very quickly. So what food scarcity really means is the middle food companies get really fat while the consumers and producers get shafted.
Lobbyists get to speak to government officials every day. Citizens only get to speak on election day. The lobbies pay for the advertising that gets lawmakers elected. While we pay their salaries we get little attention. Bad legislation gets passed. Regulations are modified waiving what little safeguards get written. Business trumps consumers every time and consumers are kept in the dark by proprietary business secrets and national security. Well, when the bees are gone and the beef industry can't keep their livestock standing by feeding them more antibiotics there will always be Soylent Green.
rest of the world doesnt give a flying fsck about american cia operatives who participated in kidnapping
These aren't the targets to which I was referring. I should have been more specific. I was referring to things like our sole source of snakebit antivenom, sensitive comm facilities, and other targets (as in what a missile can hit, not a human target). You can't justify disseminating that information. It is not a leak. It's just giving a headache and forcing us taxpayers to move facilities, add security, or build redundant facilities.
If they want to release information regarding misconduct in war, violations of Geneva, etc., great; but when they actually start aiding and abetting the enemy; fsck them!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Pesticides attack the immune system of whatever organism is being targeted, so if the fungus/virus theory is true, the main cause remains the pesticide to begin with. People fail to see that connection unfortunately.
Bayer was a suspect in Europe right from the beginning of colony collapse disorder. Not news. And even if guilty as charged, unlikely to be the sole culprit in a complex Orient Express style murder mystery.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
In light of the fact that clothiandidin was approved under not a Republican but Democratic President and Congress the grandparent post could be modified accordingly:
One more example of how Obama and his greedy incompetent Democrat asshats have screwed everybody. This stuff is used because of a regulatory approval that was granted in 2010, against the scientific advices of the experts.
It's just like Obama's handling of the BP Gulf oil spill and the coal mine explosion in West Virginia. There are systems in place to protect people and the environment, but when the Democrats gain control they selectively revoke oversight in return for campaign donations and other political favors. It takes five to fifteen years to see all the failures, and by then everyone forgets who turned over control to the crooks and lairs.
They just wave the flag, blame everything on the free market and greedy capitalists, scream about denying rights to terrorists, and then lie and deny when the
shit hits the fan. I guess as long as these morons continue to lie and cheat their way into power we deserve to have poisoned gulf seafood and the end of flowering crops.
Don't worry, you can just consume more high fructose processed food and get diabetes.
The corn/agribusiness lobby will continue to do just fine with their massive tax breaks and government subsidies, and they're so rich that they can afford imported fruits and vegetables. If you get sick the dysfunctional socialized medical care system can not save you, and that will solve them[sic] problem.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
"The thing that bugs me is that people think the FDA is protecting them. It isn't. What the FDA is doing and what the public thinks it's doing are as different as night and day." - Dr Herbert Ley, former FDA Commissioner
"The FDA has been taken over by the very industries that it was meant to regulate. This is outrageous; this is tragic; at times, this is even criminal. The unholy alliance between corporation and state have bled out even the pretense that the FDA is working for the benefit and safety of the American people. The FDA is a failed bureaucracy under corporate control." - K.P. Stoller, MD, 2007
"I have seen first hand how Monsanto and the FDA have resorted to scientific deceit of the highest order to market genetically engineered milk." - Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., professor emeritus, University of Illinois at Chicago
I'm not Marxist. I'm using dialectic in the sense of the classical Greek method of reaching truth; through critical dialogue, in which each participant proposes a statement that's possibly true, and offers the opportunity for others to question it critically.
(This response isn't for the AC -- it's for others who might get sucked into his ignorance and presuppose things about my ideas which aren't remotely true.)
The half of Libertarianism that seems OK to me is more than offset by the other half.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul
My question for you is "Do you still vote for NeoLiberals?".
The Reds are obviously slammed up against the Fascist wall, but the Blues are continuing to shift to the Right--in defiance of the 2008 vote for a change that moves away from Fascism/NeoFeudalism.
I don't see a dime's worth of difference between those two parties.
OTOH, http://tinyurl.com/Green-vs-Red-and-Blue
(cache of http://www.therealdifference.org/issues.html).
http://google.com/search?q=Pacifica+KPFA+KPFK+WBAI+WPFW+KPFT
gewg_ (CAPTCHA: churned)
You say that like it is a bad thing ...
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
(I seem to be wading into choppy waters, but here goes...)
While not literally describing it as "perfect", Friedrich Hayek and other adherents to the Austrian School of economics appear to come close to viewing the market mechanism as the be-all and end-all foundation of workable economies, depending on how much you include in your definition of economic activity.
That said, I'm under the growing impression that the Austrian School authors are often misquoted -- no real surprise there, as anyone who's read Adam Smith will be aware. I also think it's vital to look at the historic context. Hayek and Mises were in large part reacting against the extreme state-run economic ideas of the Soviet Union; in fact, reading brief excerpts from the authors, it's apparent that their use of the term "socialism" very specifically meant the Soviet variety, decidedly not of the kind seen now in most of Western Europe. Hayek himself was a proponent of some of Western European-style socialism, in terms of social safety nets, welfare, and insurance -- quite at odds with what seems to be the general trend in US public policy of late. The money quote:
There is no reason why in a society which has reached the general level of wealth which ours has attained [that] the first kind of security [security against severe physical privation, the certainty of a given minimum of sustenance for all] should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom. ... there can be no doubt that some minimum of food, shelter, and clothing, sufficient to preserve health and the capacity to work, can be assured for everybody. Indeed, for a considerable part of the population of England this sort of security has long been achieved.
Nor is there any reason why the state should not assist the individuals in providing for those common hazards of life against which, because of their uncertainty, few individuals can make adequate provision. Where, as in the case of sickness and accident, neither the desire to avoid such calamaties nor the efforts to overcome their consequences are as a rule weakened by the provision of assistance -- where, in short, we deal with genuinely insurable risks -- the case of the state's helping to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong. ... there is no incompatibility in principle between the state's providing greater security in this way and the preservation of individual freedom. To the same category belongs also the increase of security through the state's rendering assistance to the victims of such "acts of God" as earthquakes and floods. Wherever communal action can mitigate disasters against which the individual can neither attempt to guard himself nor make provision for the consequences, such communal action should undoubtedly be taken.
From page 148, early in Chapter 9, of Hayek's The Road to Serfdom .
tl;dr version: Public insurance is a good idea, and is no inherent threat to individual liberty.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Nope! It's shaped like a burrito!
Bonus points for those who get the reference. :)
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Have a look here -- search for the phrase "non-addictive" and read the few paragraphs after that. It sounds like heroin was aggressively marketed as non-addictive / non-habit-forming, and as an effective cough suppressant. Whee. Makes Robitussin look wimpy, that's for sure.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Well, given that these were cables from the people that could do something about it... the people that could DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT already knew.
The fact that our infrastructure is decaying is generally known. The specifics of what's decaying, and choke-points of vulernability? Not so well known.
One more voice urging us to secure this or that wouldn't make a positive diff at this point, whereas specific information on vulnerabilities just makes the jobs of those who undeniably are terrorists that much easier.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Hi, I'm from Europe, and I was wondering how it goes here. As I read above: it's approved to use. But I also found some EU directive about using certain pesticides telling that mamber countries are supposed to withdraw clothianidin till October 31 2010 and until then using it was allowed only with careful monitoring with bees in mind (assuming that I understood all I read;) ). And I'm soooo very curious if it was just on paper, or in real life too? Cause as always, paper is one thing, and careless people is another...
"I saw an opportunity to troll you and get you out of the woodwork.." - by gmhowell (26755) on Monday December 13, @06:56PM (#34541134) Homepage Journal
FROM -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907528&cid=34541134
and here also from that same exchange/thread:
"I never denied trolling you. And the only person I troll under the AC banner is tomhudson." - by gmhowell (26755) on Tuesday December 14, @01:55AM (#34543612) Homepage Journal
FROM -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907528&cid=34543612
No denying it, is there, gmhowell? After all, your own quoted words in black & white with the links you posted them in are difficult to deny now, aren't they? LMAO!
You're very stupid.
People: Don't pay this trolling douchebag gmhowell any mind, he's an incompetent out of work ignoramus who has nothing better to do than admittedly troll others here and he admits to it above in his own words quoted no less.
(Payback's a bitch, and nobody's a bigger beyotch than gmhowell, the trolling scumbag waste of life).