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DHS Seized Domains Based On Bad Evidence
An anonymous reader writes "Back over Thanksgiving, the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement unit (ICE) made a lot of news by seizing over 80 domain names. While many of these involved sites that sold counterfeit products, five of the domains involved copyright issues. Four of them involved hiphop-related blogs — including ones that hiphop stars like Kanye West and others used to promote their own works, and the last one was a meta search engine that simply aggregated other search engines. Weeks went by without the owners of those sites even being told why their domains were seized, but the affidavit for the seizure of those five sites has recently come out, and it's full of all sorts of problems. Not only was it put together by a recent college graduate, who claimed that merely linking to news and blog posts about file sharing constituted evidence of copyright infringement, it listed as evidence of infringement songs that labels specifically sent these blogs to promote. Also, what becomes clear is that the MPAA was instrumental in 'guiding' ICE's rookie agent in going after these sites, as that appeared to be the only outside expertise relied on in determining if these sites should be seized."
Their job is to protect us. Let's not make it anymore difficult.
Can't wait until the same heros are in charge of my healthcare. Oh wait, they already are...
Homeland Security and ICE are in charge of your healthcare? Really?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Promotion!
Someone have hired him and someone authorized the seizure.
Cops lie. News AT 11. Cry me a river.
Heres a bullet...its good for you.
Wait until there's a law that requires all Internet activity be made after logging into your ISP via some sort of government issued biometric scanner. As they say with driving; it's a privilege, not a right. As for all the problems that would cause? Suck it up cupcake! That's your problem, not theirs.
Why else would the TSA be carrying out all those testicular cancer screenings at airports?
I want to know the identity of this rookie college moron.
I also want to know which college trained him, so I can make sure to tell everybody to avoid that garbage establishment.
Next, since this was based upon false evidence, I want to see him, and those responsible for handling him, sued into oblivion.
This shit is getting to a breaking point.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
The agent also said the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America, the trade groups for the major film studios and record labels, had confirmed that the music and movies on the sites had not been released with the authorization of their copyright holders.
Yeah, after some poking around I found PROTECTING U.S. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OVERSEAS: THE JOINT STRATEGIC PLAN AND BEYOND presented to a House of Representatives committee. In it they talk about the sting and the lengthy history of their actions:
We worked with many different agencies - including CBP, DOJ’s Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section (CCIPS) and the Government of Mexico’s Treasury and Customs – and industry, including the Recording Industry Association of American (RIAA), to target importers and distributors of counterfeit goods. This operation was specifically timed to coincide with U.S. and Mexican consumers’ increased purchasing during the winter holiday season.
Then later:
Representatives from the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and RIAA assisted participating customs authorities with focused training, targeting and analyses of certain interdicted parcels. This operation was specifically timed by the IPR Center to coincide with the movie industry’s summer releases, when the biggest blockbusters are illegally recorded, reproduced on DVDs, shipped around the world and sold on street corners and in other markets.
There's plenty of interesting tidbits in this lengthy document about how everybody's getting involved -- even China:
ICE previously worked with China in September 2003 when ICE initiated Operation Spring, a joint IPR investigation by ICE agents and Chinese authorities that resulted in the extradition and conviction of DVD pirate Randolph Guthrie, who was sentenced to 48 months incarceration and ordered to repay $878,793 in restitution to the MPAA.
And the American sports associations:
Earlier this year, the IPR Center partnered with the NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA, industry and local law enforcement to conduct operations targeting counterfeit sports merchandise sold during the Super Bowl, NBA All-Star Game, Stanley Cup championship, and NCAA Final Four and Frozen Four tournaments. These operations resulted in seizures of over 14,000 counterfeit items valued at more than $760,000.
Personally I hope DHS and ICE get their asses handed to them over the music blogs. Turn that into freedom of speech and take those bastards to the cleaners. They aren't going to learn their lesson if this is just a court case that exonerates the defendant and I hope the defendants have enough cash to to fight back, or seek help from the EFF.
The frequency of these MPAA/RIAA related stings is really ramping up. I hope ICE and IPR aren't turning out to be directional attack dogs for corporations. The numbers on these things seem a tad bit inflated but haven't they always been?
My work here is dung.
Can I prevail on someone with a legal background to tell us whether you can sue the FBI for damages when they hurt your business due to negligence in their investigation (as in going off half-cocked)?
AND they're in charge of Capital Punishment (where allowed) and other judiciary jobs... (And now I'm reminded of that German citizen who was arrested in Germany and sent to an Afghanistan prison, merely by having the same name as the actual target of the operation).
Sometimes "Oops" just doesn't cut it.
Perhaps Due Process needs to be revised to include more than what it currently does. And there needs to be a way to enforce it on the people in charge...
Not only was it put together by a recent college graduate, who claimed that merely linking to news and blog posts about file sharing constituted evidence of copyright infringement,
Where can I get a job like that?
Sorry. I mistyped. DHS, not FBI.
Is that really the best excuse they could come up with?
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
What are you blind? It's all over the affidavit document. Andrew T. Reynolds swears that it's all true. First line of the document.
My work here is dung.
It appears they forgot the whole 'checks and balances' thing when enacting a powerful censorship law. I'm not even sure what the 'Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement' has to do with copyright enforcement.
But hey, already found a scapegoat, a 'fresh college graduate' who'll be labeled as over-zealous while those actually in charge zip by.
And Health and Human Services is going to be any better?
The poster's point was one that people always seem to ignore. The same people who are disgusted with how one side of the government acts seem to want another part of the government to become more and more a part of our lives. It's as if we were talking about two different governments, Homeland Security and the TSA and Defense, who are evil and malicious, while being incompetent and bureaucratic. Then there is the other government which is there to fix our health care and economy which must be run by benevolent geniuses who would never, ever, be like those nasty, brutish law enforcement/defense types.
"due process" originally meant a judge would review a search or arrest warrant, but the politicians have conveniently written the judges out of the loop. Now they (the cops/feds) can write their own warrants and enter your house or shutdown your website at will.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
We're currently at war with drugs, terror, pedos, downloaders & freedom and as most people know, wars are considered an act of god so tough luck.
Must Pilfer All Assets! They are showing themselves to be a criminal organisation. Pointing some dumbass newb to fly off the handle in the wrong direction and getting away with it (for weeks) and knowing beforehand that what they were doing is illegal (and plain dumb, and plain wrong), means that they counselled a felony, and they did it against 80 different web sites and hundreds of people were adversely affected, and tens of thousands were moderately affected (perhaps more). These fishing trips have to come to a halt. They also need someone at the DA's office who passed legal stuff 101 (not like the Johnny-who-fell-off-the-turnip-truck they have now). Perhaps after this, Johnny will be a bit brighter (perhaps not), but since there are fresh wet-behind-the-ears DA's coming along all the time, the DMCA can coach them into making dumbasses out of themselves all the time, and we are left with the M.ust P.ilfer A.ll A.ssets going around and falsely accusing people (basically shaking them down) all the time, back it up with lawyers who flunked basic legal stuff 101, and no nice way to stop it.
ICE's job includes enforcing laws regarding the immigration and hiring of aliens.
Lets see, Nicky Diaz, former housekeeper to Meg Whitman, admits on national television that she forged documents and is in this country illegally.
Many employers hire illegal aliens.
Millions of illegal aliens in the country.
States, have enacted their own laws because ICE is not doing its job.
But.....ICE can shut down sites that it thinks might be violating copyright law.
Yes, ICE can't do their job, but they can be given more responsibility.
Fight Spammers!
I thought DHS (that means KGB in Russian) was suppose to protect us from terroristic threats. Sorry, not seeing how seizing domain names is thrawting Achmed.
anti-virus malware sites infecting people with malware and trying to scam them, but no one cares about those, since the RIAA doesn't care about those.
Can we assume that the next federal judge ruling on domain seizure requests will be a little more skeptical??
I really hope the Republicans make a civil rights issue out of this. Using Homeland security for copyright enforcement? Forget about the fact that they were incompetent, even if they had gotten this right it was way way out of line.
They'll move him out of DNS management and over into drafting Network Neutrality regulation. What can go wrong?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What I want to know is why are the people behind these sorts of things so freaking stupid?
Ever since the MAFIAA started taking actions against pirates the stories of innocents being scooped up in the process have been rampant. Is the MAFIAA so ensconced in power that they really just don't give a shit? Do they believe that such errors pose no threat to their own legitimacy? Or perhaps anyone knowledgeable enough to discern the difference between the clear-cut pirates and the bystanders just isn't sympathetic enough to the MAFIAA to work with them? Or maybe there are people within the ranks of the MAFIAA that disagree with the entire operation and deliberately set things up give their overlords a black eye?
I dunno what it is, but you'd think that after 10+ years of this kinda of shit they would have figured out how to do it right.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
That's rather funny in terms of how it is written. It just isn't true the different agencies do have different personalities. There are huge differences between them. CDC is snobby and elitist but very accurate and open. FBI is technologically incompetent but hires great people. NSA has wicked cool toys but no sense or morality. Bureau of Labor Statistics aims for quality and predictability but is rather scared of congress. CIA is beset with internal infighting.
WAY off topic but.
Actually they are not in charge of health care. It is called regulations. The same kind that they used to have on the banks, before they removed them and it all went to hell. The same kind that used to be on CC and how much they could charge you interest, before they removed that then everyone got to see rates from 20% to 30%.
It is and only will be health insurance regulations. but you just keep on believing that its a take over and its all going to come out bad for you.
Start using your brain and stop living in a world of wordsmiths.
love the taste, hate the texture
I for one welcome our stupid shit leaders with their heads in their asses. We're all fucked man, I'm trying of fighting this fight. Just give me my padded room please with my boob tube and genitalia stimulation device. I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
They only modded you Offtopic because they don't have a "-1 How Dare You" mod available. Any good SlashDweeb knows the US has worse healthcare than Nigeria, and that we're all literally dying in the streets from hunger due to having to pay for multi-million dollar health insurance. Also, Obama is a supremely effective ex-community organizer/junior senator and anyone who dislikes his policy is actually a raging "tea bagger" and racist.
Seriously, it's right there on the affidavit. On top of that you can let the court know in a (circa 1993) web form what you think or contact Nagle's Deputy Courtroom Clerk yourself. Case number 10-2822M for your reference since the affidavit seems to be unable to be viewed by some.
You're an American citizen and you have the right to know who these people are that are making these decisions whether it be a judge or special agent. And they shouldn't have any fear of putting their name on these documents if they think it's right. I agree with you though that maybe it's not within their capacity to serve this position should they get something so painfully wrong.
I want countersuits and I want liabilities awarded to the defendants that rival the bullshit astronomical numbers that the court sends out to NASA for computation when the MPAA/RIAA wins. I hate that if the MPAA/RIAA wins it's eighty billion dollars but if the individual is exonerated it's a benjamin tops for having their webserver down. That is bullshit.
My work here is dung.
No one knows if Achmed is working for us or not. Something about outsourcing intelligence... They figure if they cut the rap-blog lifeline anyone "rollin' wit' us" will go into noticeable withdrawals and we can actually figure out who is who.
Back up in your ass with the Resurrection, homie.
Can't wait until the same heros are in charge of my healthcare. Oh wait, they already are...
Damn, these teabaggers are worse than roaches, just can't seem to get rid of them...
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
If you're arrested by the ICE, then yes, they will be in charge of your healthcare. My guess is that's comparable to veterinary services on factory farms.
You can't get through to them. Even better are the "pro-lifers" who want government out of health care.
The "they" that removed credit card interest rate limits was the supreme court.
also blame the higher ups who oversaw this but it seems in mass cases a few also go down useing very weak evidence now what with that rookie listed www.google.com
Or prostate cancer screenings...
Are you saying that because some part of government is figuratively speaking stomping its boot on your chest, an other part, with different people, tasked with tending to your wounds, shouldn't even exist?
Even if that has merit, getting rid of the fascist bullies first would make sense to me.
Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
Can we, for once god dammit, talk about the issue instead of complaining about whatever poor schmuck with very little personal control over the daily happenings of our government, is currently sitting in the Oval Office? Seriously dude, I do not give a shit.
Wait, so you mean that when a punishment was issued without a legal trial, purely at some arbitary person's arbitary decision, things went wrong?!
We should clearly design some system where one has to be tried before one can be punished.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
The US government is a very large organization. It does a lot of different things. Some things it does well, other things it does badly. Some of the people who work for it do their jobs well, others do their jobs badly. Some types of people take some kinds of jobs, others take other types of jobs. There is no one "the government" doing everything the same way. Welcome to the real world.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
It just isn't true. The different agencies do have different personalities.
"Let's eat grandma!"
"Let's eat, grandma!"
Punctuation saves lives.
Let me say this just one time. Listen well and learn. Hang onto this knowledge and think of it every time you hear anything about the government.
The Government is here to get more power. More power from the Evil Corporations that prey on the poor and from the Evil unions that run up the cost of everything, from the people who can't choose what their children should be watching on TV and from evil wall street bastards making money off the our suffering. They are here to gain power. Gain Control. They take freedom piece by piece. Always for a good cause. Think of the Children, Poor, Workers, Middle Class, Third World Countries, Environment, Minorities, Women, Gays, Nerds, Mentaly Ill, whatever. They take freedom. When was the last time you saw a law passed that increased your freedom. NEVER. Will not happen. The Democrats are not your friends the Republicans are not either. Neither the liberals nor the conservatives give one fuck about you and your problems. Only about what they can point to in order for your dumb ass to give up more of your freedoms.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
This is what happens when allegedly infringing websites are shut down without so much as a trial, and precisely the reason why laws like COICA are so dangerous. In court you at least have the chance to prove that your actions are not infringing, but in this case the owners of the shut down domains aren't given the chance to establish their innocence in court. If DHS says you're guilty, you're guilty.
Imagine if the same standard were applied to other alleged offenses. Posted something allegedly obscene? Down goes your website, no trial necessary. Posted innocent pictures of your kids that others think are indecent? Down goes your website, no trial necessary. Said some nasty things about minorities? Down goes your website, no trial necessary -- and so on, ad nauseam.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
> Yeah. The CDC has no political spin in their statements about evil, nasty, gonna destroy the world, flus that are almost as deadly as the normal one.
The word "pandemic" has a precise scientific meaning that appears to have been lost on you.
The flu (yes, that flu), has been known to kill lots of people on occasion. We're lucky that the mortality rate of the last few has been low, because it wasn't always that way. Worse, it was known to kill young & healthy people, it just didn't kill very many of them.
There were good, scientific reasons to be alarmed and to get people vaccinated and such, but I don't remember widespread panic. But maybe you watch more hysterical news services than I do.
Yep. Sure can't wait for "net neutrality." The government is totally neutral in all things. Government regulation of the internet sounds like a fabulous idea. What could possibly go wrong?
-- When was the last time you saw a law passed that increased your freedom.
Most of the free trade regulation increased my freedom. The banking deregulation increased my freedom. The common carrier laws increase my freedom.
Some of us want smaller, less powerful government. If government can't do much, then it doesn't really matter who is in charge.
Yep. Then the corporations screw us no matter who we elect, and they do it DIRECTLY that way. Brilliant plan!
In 1918 we had a flu go through the world. About a 1/5th of the world's population caught it and 50 million people died in a matter of months. In the USA it cut 12 years off the life expectancy that year, and 1/4 of the population got it.
That's what a flu can do that gets out of hand.
As Douglas Adams explained, the purpose of the president is to distract attention away from those who really run the galaxy.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Ok yes I know Immigrations and Customs enforcement. This is a job for the FBI and/or state police etc. From the ICE website "Immigration and Customs Enforcement is the principal investigative arm of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS)". How the hell did this get to be a national security issue? Yes I understand they are the second largest investigative organization in the US government but before 9/11 they were primarily concerned with illegal immigrants. They don't need to be involved in the investigation (spying) of US citizens and their suspected criminal activities. That's the FBI's job.
"We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
Reminds me of the movie "In The Loop" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQrqMkCuHqA
with a very young 23 yo. baby-faced aide.
Strange how with all the cash, computer experts, total network dominance ect. the US gov still needed to fall back on the MPAA for help?
Then the rubber stamp comment, "most of the reasoning behind seizing the blogs is left out" - welcome to a digital East Germany.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I never understand that, people talk about the U.S. government as if it is this monolithic entity of pure intent and clear direction.
That isn't the government, it is not some implacable entity. It is a collection of various agencies and persons doing a variety of tasks for various reasons. By saying the government is evil, you include the department of Transportation (hint: maintaining the roads and signage), the post office, the FDA, FAA, CDC, and so on. Tell me how each is evil and/or powerhungry, please.
Quit with the knee-jerk reactions and learn about what you're defaming.
What 'free trade' regulations? Free trade requires only one sentence: "We will not use import tariffs or subsidies," and that's it. When was that law passed? When was the banking deregulation - the 90s? Common carrier laws, the 80s? So 2 laws, or sets of laws, in the last 20 years increased freedom.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
No, you can't sue the DHS, or the government in general, because of a most pernicious doctrine called "sovereign immunity." Since the government created the courts and endows them with legitimacy, you can't use its own courts against it, except in very limited circumstances. (It's like dividing by zero, sort of.)
However, if an agent of the government uses his/her position to commit a crime, you can sue the agent him/herself, but not their employer. (Of course, that's no guarantee that the suit won't get tossed, only that you can, in fact, proceed with it.) Also, if they use the apparatus of the government for purposes of racial discrimination, they can also be sued. But generally, no, you can't sue.
WIkipedia explains it in more detail: linky
Masks in Asia were used heavily in U.S. media during one of the recent go rounds. These stories were accompanied by all the usual bullshit: mask shortages, mask effectiveness concerns, word from the street how-it-feels-to-have-to-wear-a-mask-to-survive interviews. This was then turned to innovative businesses capitalizing on masks, designer masks, institutionalized uptake of preventative measures (schools).
It is easy to conflate the actions of the CDC with the perception formed through exposure to mass media about the details of implementations. It becomes harder to separate the issues when entire industries find their interest in capitalizing on info coming out of the CDC the same as inside commodities traders.
We are several cycles deep in this right now and it is only getting worse. At this point we need better distributed metrics that trigger pandemic responses. The idea that disaster response to mutant strains of flu can be charted based on past characteristics is deeply flawed. The pandemic switch needs to be controlled by what is verifiable by metric observation, and it must be accepted that the 'first response' to a true pandemic will follow the first demonstration of a strain's qualifying attributes - ie: casualties.
A stateful communication system basically that doesn't transit in rumors of precrime. Precrime ideology in public health will destroy a society.
At least this is what I usually hear tossed around by anti-CDC people that haven't already gone over to the "TeH r tryn 2 k1llz meh!,' faction.
I'm fairly certain I don't have to go to see my Member of Parliament for a prescription. You tighten that foil helmet though, and remember to stock up on ammo.
And even if it were true, there are ways for the government to provide universal health care that do not involve the government controlling that care. For example, the government provided power for millions in the Tennessee Valley, but does not run TVA. They just paid the bill for getting the organization started. There's nothing preventing the government from similarly creating a nonprofit corporation for health care and leaving management in the hands of their board.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
The law allowing gun carry in national parks.
Some of us want smaller, less powerful government. If government can't do much, then it doesn't really matter who is in charge.
Someone will always been in power, and power will always be abused. I'll take my chances against a democratically elected government bound by laws (imperfect as it may be on both counts), over the un-elected and un-accountable alternatives that always rush into any vacuum created when government retreats. Especially when those un-elected and unaccountable alternatives are the main culprits in corrupting the government in the first place.
The "they" that removed credit card interest rate limits was the supreme court.
Not exactly. What they did in 1978 was to make it permissible for the laws of the state where the lender was chartered to apply instead of those of the state the customer resides in.
Where they are:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/more/map.html
General info:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/
Beware of credit of the last resort
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Card_(The_New_Twilight_Zone)
Well this is exactly why the founding fathers tried to create due process and an independent judiciary, for dealing with domestic private properties and private persons. These actions clearly should have gone through the courts or at the very least an established agency review process were the owners could present evidence and testify if desired on their own behalf.
When executive fiat is used to act on individuals and private property there are always going to be these kinds of abuses.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
My wife successfully sued a part of the DHS for failing to process her background check within the time period required by law. There was no discrimination or anything else like that, just a paperwork backlog. I agree that in the present circumstance a lawsuit would be unlikely to be successful, but I think "You can't sue the DHS....except in very limited circumstances" might be misleading as a generalization.
Customs' duty is still to inspect and/block illegal/controlled items arriving into the USA through its borders.
How is a domain name or files located on a server pointed to a domain name crossing the border?
Fight Spammers!
Yeah because if they hadn't taken away the rights in the first place we wouldn't have needed new laws!
Constitution gave you the right to carry long before any of that bs, just ignorant politicians forgot to read it.
But generalising is so much easier!
Interesting, I would have thought the ONE country that would allow the people to sue the government would be the US. You know land of the free and all that... Suing the government happens here in Australia and the UK all the time. In fact there is a great movie about it, The Castle.
The MPAA has no business dictating state policy. When your right to vote has no meaning, look to the MPAA to lookout for your interests.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
However, if an agent of the government uses his/her position to commit a crime, you can sue the agent him/herself, but not their employer.
Even then, there are broad exclusions that protect certain federal employee classifications from lawsuits provided the harm was not caused by the employee's gross negligence. For instance, air traffic controllers (FAA employees) cannot be sued for their actions (for instance, here's an article about an air traffic controller that confused two aircraft and ended up killing 34 people...no gross negligence, no lawsuit). Many other government positions fall under similar exemptions.
Isn't the real root problem here ICANN?
Attorneys, police, and judges are always going to try and do questionable things. The international root of the internet should not be so beholden to the US government, Move it to Switzerland, and put in place clear rules about what does and what does not constitute valid cause for removing a domain.
Or follow Peter Sunde's suggestion, and move it all to p2p.
Sometimes "Oops" just doesn't cut it.
You just have to resort to "9-11".
Or "think of the children", whichever seems more appropriate.
You can't take the sky from me...
Free trade requires only one sentence: "We will not use import tariffs or subsidies," and that's it.
No it doesn't. There are hundreds of mechanisms having to deal with bills of lading, inspection, taxation. Who is going to contacting whom. How duties will be collected.
And I wasn't asked for a complete list. I could throw in airline deregulation. Especially prior to 2001 airlines had become much freer over the previous 25 years.
I feel a lawsuit coming on ...... but of course who ever wins against the MAN ???
FragHARD or don't frag at all
The private sector is not much better, we have RI** and the MP** who both share the worst characteristics of three of those federal agencies, and have their own negative characteristics such as greed to add to the equation.
I wonder if it is just a different as you would imagine it to be. Certainly, other departments will have different cultures, and some of those may well be much more amenable to benevolence and competence, but simply by being in "the government" they can and do share certain characteristics with every other department.
Let's take the most obvious item: politics. No group in the government can avoid it, even if they are supposed to be "independent" in principle. It's not inconceivable that a reasonable health care system could come out of the political system, but it will remain a political football evermore. Its budget will depend on the government's budget. The pro-lifers and the pro-choicers will each have their own agendas. There will be some sort of call for some sort of restriction that will create enormous bureaucracy. Then some reformer will decry the enormous bureaucracy, and slash the budget, or worse, because it will likely be untouchable in the budget, will do something like create absurd new "efficiency" regulations that destroy the quality of the system without removing it.
If they somehow do manage to make it an independent entity in more than just name, everyone is just going to assume the government will bail it out if it looks like it will fail.
And in the end, isn't that the point? People don't seem to care about getting the *best* of anything from the government. They just want it guaranteed to them so they feel better about it. Only after they allow it to come into existence do people seem to realize that its not particularly well run or that it has fatal flaws. In that way, its basically just like the army or TSA. Everyone demands that we have it, but once we do, we wonder how it is possible that it could possibly be used or run in such a manner as to produce the undesired effects that they see in the news.
And of course, one way or the other, no matter how bad the program gets, no matter how bloated or in need of reform, it will never, ever go away, or even be allowed to change by the iron triangles formed by the constituencies that come to rely on it. Just like the military and security budgets.
So yeah, maybe there is some generalization in the "one size fits all argument", but there is a lot to be said for it. Government health care may be the best way to go, but you would think with everyone seeing climate change becoming a political football, and the issues with the management of the war, there would be a bit more consideration of how the government units are similar just as much as they are different.
NOT a surprise.
But generalising is so much easier!
corporatising is easier still and much more profitable.... for some.
BM3
Air traffic control is real-time. Different story from premeditated errors.
The interesting thing is that we shouldn't need laws to increase freedoms.
Under the original US system, freedom was something you were born with and it could only be taken or given away.
It's sad when a rhetorical statement concerning laws granting freedoms to already free people garners such debate on how much freedom was given.
So you're saying that if I can find a corporation that has abused power and done evil, then all corporations must be equally abusing power and doing evil? Or if I can find one criminal in the US then we're all similarly criminals? What you're saying doesn't make sense even on a basic logical level, before even looking at the real world examples which would further take the wind out of this line of thinking.
Please let's stop oversimplifying with "it's all bad". It's not. There may be some bad in nearly everything, but it's worth recognizing and fighting those parts while promoting and nurturing the good in those same entities -- be they people or organizations.
Cheers.
MPAA was instrumental in 'guiding' ICE's rookie agent in going after these sites, as that appeared to be the only outside expertise relied on in determining if these sites should be seized
A private police force with public funding...quite a racket they've got going there.
Yep. Then the corporations screw us no matter who we elect, and they do it DIRECTLY that way. Brilliant plan!
Just don't buy from them or associate with them. Say no. They have no recourse and no way to force you to do anything.
Try saying no to the government a few times and see how long you stay out of prison.
Everyone understands the difference. Even you. But you're dishonest.
just like them (a died in the wool, brain-dead Republican,) but the TSA was created by Bush so they'll give it a pass. (After all, private jets or charters from small private airports aren't subject to searches.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
The Department of Homeland Security should be shutdown and and its Archetypes Janet Planet and her lapdog Pistole should be euthanized.
Fitting end to humans who should have never been born.
-308
NSA has wicked cool toys but no sense or morality.
Um, what? NSA isn't some group of assassins.
You said it like it were a Bad Thing.
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
By saying the government is evil, you include the department of Transportation (hint: maintaining the roads and signage), the post office, the FDA, FAA, CDC, and so on. Tell me how each is evil and/or powerhungry, please.
DoT: Did you know they don't consider every human life invaluable? It's true! They have actuaries that tell them how much to spend on road safety, and how many lives lost is "good enough"
Post Office: Only one organization drives its employees violently/suicidaly insane more than the military. Strangely, "Going Army Vet" isn't the term for shooting up the workplace.
FDA: Really? You don't know this one?
FAA: More incompetent than evil. If they were doing their jobs, TSA wouldn't exist.
CDC: They put HIV in your slim jims (cross departmental work with FDA).
and so on: All of the other agencies do the same as the CDC, but with your mountain dew.
Okay, 3 laws. If there are no tariffs, then there is no concern for how they are collected. Port fees are private already and inspections rarely occur even today. Payment terms are defined by INCOTERMS, a private agreement, and have been around for hundreds, if not thousands of years. I maintain that my one sentence is all that is necessary for free trade.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
And in another article people will be fully confident on the US doing what's good for the internet. The fact that thery can SIZE domain that easily is already a reason to not trust them at all.
So THAT's how they're going to fix Social Security... it was just a life expectancy problem.
In spite of all of the bullshit, the NSA has a stronger corporate sense of morality than any other part of the federal government I've worked against. However, that doesn't sell newspapers, so it's intentionally ignored. I suggest reading more about the history of the NSA.
For someone who has drunk a lot of kool-aid you sure seem to be suspicious of Slim Jims and Mountain Dew.
The only time warrants are not required (re: search warrants) are when:
and that's pretty much it. Most states have pretty strict laws regarding lack of consent not validating probable cause as well.
The RIAA and MPAA wouldn't exist without the government stealing money end equipment on behalf of them.
Cloddish, lead footed, in over her head and just plain stoopid.
Mod Me Up. You'll make a grown man cry.
Why else would the TSA be carrying out all those testicular cancer screenings at airports?
They goddamned should screen. After all, my testicular cancer only started after I chose to use their X-ray groper on my last flight.
So how is it that a commercial group like the MPAA/RIAA can buy the Dept of Homeland Security and turn them into its bitch?
The law allowing gun carry in national parks.
They owed us that one. The first things to be cut from the budget, after healthcare, are libraries and parks. Now that they've fired nearly all the rangers, who the hell is supposed to protect me when I'm camping in a county, state or national park.
OTOH, they've also thereby made the parks safe for growing pot, so it may be a wash.
Mate, why don't you just visit a country that has a functioning public health system. It shouldn't be hard, as pretty much every other 1st and 2nd world country has one.
Corporate America has been ripping off your health system for so long that you don't want it any other way. It's like a damn abusive relationship scenario or something.
lemonade was a popular drink and it still is
Can't wait until the same heros are in charge of my healthcare. Oh wait, they already are...
Homeland Security and ICE are in charge of your healthcare? Really?
Yes its nice that they let him post on Slashdot from gitmo.
No, you can't sue the DHS, or the government in general,
OTOH, the guy the FBI falsely accused of being the Atlanta bomber walked away with a decent chunk of change for his suit against the FBI, IIRC.
>>>you can't use its own courts against it
Nonsense. Lots of people sue the United States government, which is why you'll see Bob Smith v. United States or Massachusetts v. United States in the Supreme Court's rolls. Sometimes states even sue each other, such as Delaware v. New Jersey.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Don't worry, the IRS is in charge so everything will work out just fine.
-- $G
The agent lists the basis for the forfeiture on page 66 of the affidavit. U.S. Code Title 18, Section 2323 allows the U.S. government to seize "Any property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part to commit or facilitate the commission of [the following offenses]:" 506 of title 17, or section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320, or chapter 90 section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320.
I found the affidavit to be pretty sound, and the evidence was fairly damming. I don't think this will ultimately stop the pirates, however, as a close study of the affidavit will give you all the ideas you need to run a pirate site that obeys the letter of the law, but not the spirit.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
A private police force with public funding...quite a racket they've got going there.
Staffed by students, so they're keeping operating costs at a minimum, too.
My girlfriend at the time had an even shorter version of NAFTA: "Go!"
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Or if you want to fly on an airplane.
Insightful; good catch. He said the opposite of what he intended to say. "It just isn't true the different agencies do have different personalities." What he said was that it isn't true that the different agencies have different personalities, when he meant that the post he was referring to wasn't true, but instead different agencies have different personalities.
Illiterate or aliterate? Or maybe he just needed more coffee? The written word is far more precise than the spoken word. There's a radio ad for a sex toy shop here in Springfield, with the jingle going "Priscilla's, where fun and fantasy meet". Or are they saying "we're fun and fantasy meat"?
Free Martian Whores!
Evil unions that run up the cost of everything
I take offense at that flamebait. You'd rather have cheap shit produced by workers who work 12 hour shifts in sweatshops for minimum wage with no overtime pay, no vacations, no sick time, no holidays than pay the true cost of your goods? Workers who hate their jobs and take no pride in their work making that cheap shit? Because that's what you had before unions. Do you like having weekends off? Thank the union movement.
If you are anti-union, you are keeping poor people poor, and IMO you're either evil or stupid. Or perhaps brainwashed by Fox and the other corporate media.
It saddens me that people swallow this garbage.
Free Martian Whores!
Bullshit. The free trad laws increased the corporations' freedom, at the expense of MY freedom. Banking deregulation increased bankers' freedom at the cost of my freedom (and my cash).
I will agree with you on common carrier laws.
Free Martian Whores!
You are a little bit of an idiot. One that can also see nothing wrong with unions. I threw out all kinds of misconceptions there. Corporations, Unions, Heath Care, the poor, wall street. All you saw was unions and went off on some little girl tizzy trying school me on the true value of "Union Workers". Fuck you.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
DoT: Did you know they don't consider every human life invaluable? It's true! They have actuaries that tell them how much to spend on road safety, and how many lives lost is "good enough"
They have to keep within their budget. Congress shoulc give them more money, and the TSA and DHS none at all; there shouldn't be any such thing as a TSA or a DHS. Transportation safety should be up to the FAA and DoT, homeland security should be the domain of the military and intelligence agencies.
Post Office: Only one organization drives its employees violently/suicidaly insane more than the military.
I have a close friend who's worked for the PO for thirty years. They piss him off, yes, but I'll bet your employer pisses you off as well. "Going postal" came from ONE highly publicized incident.
FDA: Really? You don't know this one?
They're the ones who try to keep your food from being poisoned, and your drugs pure and effective. Are you ignorant, or just trolling?
FAA: More incompetent than evil. If they were doing their jobs, TSA wouldn't exist.
The FAA's competence or lack thereof has nothing to do with the TSA's existance. It was the FBI that fell down on the job, not the FAA.
CDC: They put HIV in your slim jims (cross departmental work with FDA).
Ok, you answered my question. Get back under your bridge.
Free Martian Whores!
OK I want to bring a ship full of containers into a US port and offload them.
1) What do I need to know about them?
2) How do I verify that the people who pick them up are the rightful owners
3) What kinds of insurance do I need if something goes wrong?
4) Are there weight maximums to avoid damaging US equipment
5) Do the contains need to meet environmental standards
Things you don't think about often seem simple.
-- The free trad laws increased the corporations' freedom, at the expense of MY freedom
How? Lets take an area that is still restricted tobacco. How are you more free under current tobacco laws than if tobacco could be imported like a shirt?
No they aren't. They just follow policy without being concerned about effects or legality. Assassins by the nature of their work get to know the people and cultures we are attacking. They make moral judgements.
Apocalypse Now is about the moral struggles of an assassin.
I don't know if you are reading so can you provide examples, evidence, links...?
I've often wondered why wrongful state convictions don't result in penalties to the prosecution. If you value freedom, you must penalize those who would illegally take it away.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Actually they are not in charge of health care. It is called regulations.
So telling people how something must be done is different than being in charge? Interesting...
The same kind that they used to have on the banks, before they removed them and it all went to hell.
They never removed the regulations from banks. They might have changed them, but the government was still in charge... and, since they insist on being involved, they're also responsible. The insinuation that what happened is due to the free market is blatantly false. The banks haven't operated in a free market for over a century.
The FED had all the power and resources it needed to stop the Great Depression from even starting by propping up the Bank of the United States. But, it didn't and the bank failed triggering the run on banks that crashed the entire system. The government had the power to stop it, but didn't. Instead, the free market was made the scapegoat, and the government pushed for even more power to "prevent" another crisis from ever happening.
Government "regulation" has a major history of failing, followed by spin blaming the free market even though the markets being addressed are never unregulated to begin with, and then the government argues for more power even though it's proven it can't use it particularly well. And, people take the bait, believing that "regulation" will save them... even when the regulations were already in place, but the government was too inept to actually use them properly.
Of course, that doesn't stop the knee jerkers from claiming that "deregulation" caused problems and regulations will save us all...
There will be some sort of call for some sort of restriction that will create enormous bureaucracy.
It can't be any worse than insurance companies' bureaucracies, which are completely unchecked by ANYONE. I have no choice in health care; I have to use the insurance company my employer provides. Insurance is the #1 reason US health care is the world's most expensive.
Every other industrialized nation has government-run health care, and by every metric there is ours is piss-poor.
In that way, its basically just like the army or TSA. Everyone demands that we have it
Bullshit, I don't. TSA is completely unnecessary.
Free Martian Whores!
I threw out all kinds of misconceptions there. Corporations, Unions, Heath Care, the poor, wall street.
I zeroed in on one thing, the rest I was unconcerned with, morron. Get back under your bridge, boy, your anti-union trolls are tiresome.
And fuck you too, idiot, and the horse you rode in on.
Free Martian Whores!
Ok, you answered my question. Get back under your bridge.
The difference between a joke and a troll is the interpretation of the reader.
As they say with driving; it's a privilege, not a right.
And that argument should be stuffed back down their throats on the end of a huge dick. Driving has come to be a necessity instead of a right for most people. Hence it should be a right, one which it is hard to take away, like voting.
They keep shouting it's a privilege just because it makes it easier to take it away. Just like the buttfucking company commander I had in boot camp -- he used to give us smoking "privileges" in the morning, just so he'd have something to take away before evening.
As it is, the "driving privilege" has become an ungreased dildo, to be applied wherever extra punishment is desired.
Someone gets behind on child care payments? Sure pull his license to make sure he can't get a job that pays well enough to pay the money due.
Teenager below eighteen starts pulling Cs? Fine, yank his license, just as if it has any provable effect on his studies. Great, now he has another hour or two a day to resent your unjust ass, instead of studying.
Well, give me a "woosh" then. Your parody was too close to what some people actually believe.
Free Martian Whores!
1) Whatever you require to know about them.
2) Whatever method you desire, but those most concerned usually employ a bank by using a letter of credit
3) Only the types of insurance you desire to purchase
4) The only weight maximums in the U.S. are defined by maximum axle weights on bridges or limits set by rail companies. These are domestic issues that your customer will inform you of the requirements (these are not trade issues, per se)
5) Environmental standards are domestic regulations and your customer should inform you of the requirements (also not trade issues)
I think about them most every day, but that's because I own an importing and international sales and marketing company.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
PS - it looks like I'm not the only one deserving of a "woosh", look at the comment's moderation. Unless your karma's excellent and you know you're funny, humor can be dangerous here.
Free Martian Whores!
Not exactly. What they did in 1978 was to make it permissible for the laws of the state where the lender was chartered to apply instead of those of the state the customer resides in.
IIRC, despite the statement in your first reference, it was the state where their billing office was located. Hence the immediate moves of those offices to whichever of the Dakotas had the highest current cap.
No way do I want that system. What's to stop someone from being in all sorts of illegal merchandise, Counterfeit products, drugs, illegal pesticides.
"until" implies they are NOT YET in charge..
you're an idiot.
cower some more, feeb.
you're completely pathetic.
Nothing, just like the system that we have today, and have always had.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
The FAA can be argued as valuable because of Airworthiness directives if nothing else.
With (as per link) all kinds of exceptions -- Tort Claims Act, Tucker Act, discrimination, suit by U.S. vs. state, suit by state vs. another state, "stripping doctrine", abrogation doctrine, certain contracts with government, etc.
Example news from today -- "Judge orders feds to pay $2.5M in wiretapping case": http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_warrantless_wiretapping
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes