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Thousands of Blackbirds Fall From Sky Dead

Dan East writes "In a fashion worthy of a King or Hitchcock novel, blackbirds began to fall from the sky dead in Arkansas yesterday. Somewhere between 4,000 and 5,000 birds rained down on the small town of Beeb, Arkansas, with no visible trauma. Officials are making wild guesses as to what happened — lightning strike, high-altitude hail, or perhaps trauma from the sound of New Year's fireworks killed them."

577 comments

  1. FlashForward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    FlashForward predicted this!

    1. Re:FlashForward by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      That was my first thought, too, but in FlashForward it was crows dying.

    2. Re:FlashForward by Marillion · · Score: 3, Funny

      Now we know why the series was cancelled!

      --
      This is a boring sig
    3. Re:FlashForward by AHuxley · · Score: 1, Troll

      Some xmas fun with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program
      Thinks back to Jesse Ventura and his Conspiracy Theory series :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:FlashForward by ThePromenader · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What he didn't predict was that, thanks to this 'disaster', we could make one big *$%&*$ blackbird pie.

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
    5. Re:FlashForward by Alsee · · Score: 0

      Arkansas - America's Somalia.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    6. Re:FlashForward by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Probably not HAARP unless they fell down cooked.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:FlashForward by operagost · · Score: 1

      Or 166-208 standard blackbird pies.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    8. Re:FlashForward by MBCook · · Score: 1

      I don't remember that episode. Seems more like something that would have been on Eerie, Indiana.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    9. Re:FlashForward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The birds died because... THEY WERE LOADED, OK?!

      (filter error: don't use so many caps, it's like yelling.)

    10. Re:FlashForward by Revek · · Score: 1

      Read the book. That always kills any possible show. I really should stop reading so TV will be interesting again.

    11. Re:FlashForward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And were flying in the ionosphere.

    12. Re:FlashForward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No More Green Pigs in Arkansas

    13. Re:FlashForward by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      Besides, we haven't lost contact with the USS Flagg.

    14. Re:FlashForward by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      HAARP is well known to have effects which reach well beyond the ionosphere. One of the design goals was to be able to perturb the atmosphere outward, and it can also be used to drain the ionosphere's charge inward.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:FlashForward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...could just read the book to see how this story ends...

      Flashforward by Robert J. Sawyer

  2. BEEBE, Arkansas by Scareduck · · Score: 3, Funny

    That is all.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

    1. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yep, pronounced like the gun you wanted for Christmas

    2. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Beebe is pronounced rail in Arkansas? The things you learn on Slashdot...

    3. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      With a town name like this, I'd rename it immediately. For example, to "Kosovo" (an adjective meaning "of blackbirds").

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    4. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Collective noun for boobs. Usage: Mardi Gras is an excellent event for beebe.

    5. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      No. It is pronounced. Phazer.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    6. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by ouija147 · · Score: 1

      How about
      Bald Knob, AR?
      Toad Suck, AR
      Snowball, AR
      Apt, AR
      Ink, AR
      Gid, AR
      Marked Tree, AR

    7. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by ThePangolino · · Score: 1

      Without disrespect sir, I think it is already taken by a small country in South Eastern Europe.

      --
      My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
    8. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      This wasn't considered a problem by the US state of Georgia.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    9. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The town's folk are called Beebers.

    10. Re:BEEBE, Arkansas by SynMonger · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure why this was modded funny. The town's name is Beebe, pronounced bee-bee.

  3. Or they flew over a CAFO by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Funny

    More likely they died of shock when they flew over a CAFO.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_Animal_Feeding_Operations

    --
    Evil people are out to get you.
    1. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First thing I thought when I read this was 'What agenda driven thing are people going to blame this one on?' Maybe it would be wifi, a radio tower, or the nearest nuclear power plant. Maybe it would be chemtrails, GMO pollen, or communist fluoride. But CAFOs, did not see that one coming.

      Some CAFOs are pretty dubious operations indeed. But without any evidence, blaming them for this, especially when there are a number of more probable reasons, is kinda stretching it, don't you think? Kneejerk blaming doesn't do any good for anyone... except perhaps the CAFO operators themselves, when legitimate opposition to unsanitary & inhumane conditions gets lumped in with the kneejerk.

    2. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by blue+trane · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Another reason to stop eating meat.

    3. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by blue+trane · · Score: 5, Funny

      see how angry meat makes you!

    4. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by anomaly256 · · Score: 1

      Life feeds on life, always has always will. That's my belief. But I still had to laugh at this. Good call

    5. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by kanto · · Score: 0

      Maybe he ate his meat, but they were all out of pudding?

    6. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Raumkraut · · Score: 2

      Plants are alive. At least until some bugger eats the poor things. Won't someone think of the flora?

      Oh, and I do believe that science can set us free from the endless cycle of destruction. Behold: Meat Sheets!

    7. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by BeanThere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If everyone stopped eating meat today, they would have to immediately slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep etc. as the market as every day keeping them alive would be just sinking money for nothing. Nice short-term outcome, is that what you want? Then rather than saving these animals, the majority would cease to exist, as one of the main reasons we keep them is for their meat. It would also cause the price of products like dairy to skyrocket, it may even become totally uneconomical, in which case rather than saving these animals, you may just drive them extinct. These animals are domesticated, it's not going to be like a Disney movie where they are all freed into the wild to survive happy and free on their own, they don't have survival skills - we keep them alive. The trade is really that they get to exist at all, and we get to eat them.

      I'm all for non-cruel livestock raising methods but ceasing to eat meat is completely illogical, it doesn't do anything to solve that problem at all, in fact it may exacerbate it, since by stressing the market for meat products you directly put pressure on farmers to cut corners price-wise. There are better ways to solve that problem; lobbying for regulation and enforcement, raise public awareness, and selective boycotting - e.g. name and shame the worst farms. These methods have done huge amounts to help improve farming conditions for animals.

    8. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by blue+trane · · Score: 1

      plants have a different survival strategy, they want you to eat them, that's why their fruit is sweet so that birds will eat it and spread the seeds far and wide...

    9. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by ysth · · Score: 1

      Wow, it's a plural. I'm assuming you all use dumb to mean stupid, not mute, but I don't get how you all deduce s/he's not abstinent.

    10. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by blue+trane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Reduce the harm. Stop buying as much meat, then wean yourself altogether. Maybe the animals as you say are happy to make the trade-off but until we're sure and give each one the choice we shouldn't assume. The same economic arguments were used against freeing slaves but the predictions didn't come true. Technology provided a better way of picking cotton and in the same way technology will give us meat without brains or nerves, let us focus on accelerating progress towards that goal!

    11. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Blymie · · Score: 4, Informative

      Which is precisely why pork tastes so good.. so we will breed them, and protect them as a species......

      After all.. pork, beef and fowl are amoung the most numerous animals there are.. thanks to their tastiness!

    12. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Blymie · · Score: 1

      As long as the animal lives and dies humanely, it's fine to eat it.

      At the very least,children need meat to grow up healthy.

    13. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Splab · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most of us need proteins, also at least one amino acid is from eating meat afair. And for all you veggies out there, yes I'm very well aware that you can achieve the same protein through vegetables and you can take nutrition supplement to get the amino acid, but frankly I'd rather have some damned animal suffer for my pleasure than to hurt my self for their well being.

      At least I appreciate their sacrifice.

    14. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by pcermomb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If everyone stopped eating meat today, they would have to immediately slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep etc. as the market as every day keeping them alive would be just sinking money for nothing. Nice short-term outcome, is that what you want?

      No. But, if everyone stops eating meat(Not necessarily immediately, may be by gradually reducing the consumption), very soon, there would be no more factory farming.

      Then rather than saving these animals, the majority would cease to exist, as one of the main reasons we keep them is for their meat.

      How are we dealing with the endangered species ? By starting to eat them ? No, right ? We will deal with the currently domesticated species, the same way.

      It would also cause the price of products like dairy to skyrocket, it may even become totally uneconomical,

      Veganism is an option. Even otherwise, the price of dairy products needn't necessarily skyrocket. First of all, if we decide that dependence on/exploitation of animals is NOT an option, then, we CAN find ways.

      The trade is really that they get to exist at all, and we get to eat them.

      A few species going extinct is much better than letting them stay around and suffer for generations to come.

    15. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And arguments of moral superiority have been used in firebombings, religious wars and genocide. Not to mention the Shakers, who were convinced that sexual congress was wrong -- and had a female leader... progressive folk, those Shakers. Shame they seem to not be around anymore. You might want to reconsider attacking an argument because you can draw vague comparisons between it and arguments for Very Bad Things.

      I'm not saying you're wrong (I'm sure as hell not getting into an argument with a true believer), but be aware that your blind faith isn't shared by everybody else. It's not an objective truth, but rather a moral belief. That tends to vary between people. Check out the argument on when a human being gets the right to live. Conception? 24 weeks or so? Birth? 13 years old? Never?

      If we can't work out when the human species has a right to live in our own biological development, you think we're going to be able to draw interspecies lines? Heck... even people who agree with you in broad strokes might call you a disgusting, foul person for consuming vegetables. Fruitarians are equally assured of their moral superiority. As are pesco-vegetarians.

    16. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Barryke · · Score: 1

      Please explain us why this is stupid.

      You forget all those cows and chickens are quite expensive to maintain. With them reeling in money to support them, those animals would have to be laid off. Of course you'll adopt one, but keep most won't.

      --
      Hivemind harvest in progress..
    17. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And now imagine someone looks upon humankind exactly the way you talked about animals . . .

    18. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is their extinction worse than keeping them alive? I mean, I see nothing bad in some domesticated animals that do not exist in the wild going extinct. What's the big fuss about extinction? I do have a problem with cruel treatment of animals, which is inevitable when you're keeping domesticated animals for food like that. It's bound to happen, whatever laws you put to stop it. Letting them go extinct? Big deal. And also keeping an animal alive and locked up just for your own needs can be viewed as unethical, but then you could say that's illogical, but I certainly feel nervous about it, especially when the animals are then slaughtered.

    19. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Schadrach · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, we'll keep a couple of pigs and cows in zoo pens to be gawked at, and the remainder will die off because they can't effectively survive in the wild because we've bred them for thousands of years to be large, tasty, and easy to kill?

      Also, as a side note, you don't see something inherently unnatural about a diet that requires you to take nutritional supplements just to be in something resembling normal health?

    20. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As are pesco-vegetarians.

      For anyone not aware, these people only eat vegetables that have been grown(or harvested) by actor Joe Pesci.

    21. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If everyone stopped eating meat today [...]

      Is that likely to happen or is it a half-brained strawman-style argument?

      > Nice short-term outcome, is that what you want?

      What I would like is for people to consider the harm done (to animals, to the environment, to their health) and reduce/cease their meat consumption. I imagine that if this happens it will happen gradually and not as the domesticated-animal-apocalypse you describe.

      > The trade is really that they get to exist at all, and we get to eat them

      "Trade" suggests a bargain, but who would agree to be born into a life of slavery, torture and early death?

    22. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 5, Funny

      Survival strategies: Being delicious.

      Seriously. Look, Fuck the whales. They had their chance at life, they had a nice evolution plan, and it was working very well, but they'd forgotten to take something into account: Japan. If you have tentacles, or you are huge and unique, or if you have Shitting Dick-Nipples, you have to watch the fuck out, 'cause Japan is coming for you. The Dodo was ugly as fuck and tasted like crap ... and it went, well, the way of the dodo. You don't care about Siberian Tigers either.

      Now, even if you care about endangered species, you care up to a point. That is, unless you are a crazy-ass peta member or something, you limit yourself to sending a donation, or going to a stupid sit-down somewhere. Now, you tell us that FUCKING COWS are going extinct, and there's going to be chaos on the streets. People will fucking murder politicians and feed them to the cows. They'll offer virgin sacrifices and pray to Thor until they can guarantee that they'll keep getting their fair share of beef.

      So, yeah, being delicious with us humans around seems like an awesome idea.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    23. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by rainmouse · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... in which case rather than saving these animals, you may just drive them extinct. These animals are domesticated, it's not going to be like a Disney movie where they are all freed into the wild to survive happy and free on their own, they don't have survival skills - we keep them alive. The trade is really that they get to exist at all, and we get to eat them.

      I cannot believe this nonsense gets voted up to 5. Cows and chickens extinct because we stop eating them? Have you never heard of eggs and milk? Why does some peoples personal choice not to eat meat get you so angry? As for exacerbating the market by eating less meat forcing farmers to cut corners? Actually the stress put on farmers currently which forces them already to cut so many corners is supermarket domination forcing them to sell their product for the barest survivable profit. The centre of your argument is that if we eat less meat, less of them would be reared for the slaughter and you somehow manage to imply this would be a bad thing? You seem to imply that a short cramped life waist deep in your own excrement while fed on growth hormones (that cause all kinds of terrible issues) then butchered as early as possible is something they should be thankful for? I am no vegetarian but I can see why some people choose to be, especially considering the long term effects of growth hormone and antibiotic raised meat is largely unknown on humans at this time.

    24. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ok, either you are a very successful troll, or a very stupid person. I really can't tell ... and I'm good at this.

      Anyway, if you are a troll, congratulations, you've done an amazing job today. puddi, puddi, puddi.

      Now, if you aren't ... What the hell are you talking about? Giving cows a chance? Are you fucking stupid?

      Look, there is NO GOD, there is just nature. And by the mere fact that we are here, I can tell you for sure 2 things: There's been some fucking and some eating going on here for a LONG TIME. That's something that I never understood. That's an animals life: You are born, you grow and survive as long as you can, try to reproduce, and then die. Most of the time, you get eaten. It's very rare to see in nature animals that die of old age. It just doesn't happen that much outside of humans and human's pets. Long before any animal can die of old age, it becomes older and slower, and gets eaten. Why is it wrong or unnatural for us to just do the same? Do you have any idea of how many animals have lived and died since life evolved on earth?

      But nobody said it better than old good George. I was going to redact this piece a little, but I can't do that to this awesome piece, so here it is, in whole:

      "'My God has a bigger dick than your God!' That's how it is, isn't it? Thousands of years, and all the best wars too, the bloodiest, most brutal wars fought all based on religious hatred, which is fine with me. Anytime a bunch of holy people want to kill each other, I'm a happy guy. But don't be giving me all this shit about the sanctity of life. I mean, even if there were such a thing, I don't think it's something you can blame on God. No, you know where the sanctity of life came from? We made it up! You know why? Cause we're alive! Self-interest. Living people have a strong interest in promoting the idea that somehow life is sacred. You don't see Abbott and Costello running around, talking about this shit, do you? We're not hearing a whole lot from Mussolini on the subject. What's the latest from JFK? Not a god damned thing, cause JFK, Mussolini, and Abbott and Costello are fucking dead. They're fucking dead, and dead people give less than a shit about the sanctity of life. Only living people care about it, so the whole thing grows out of a completely biased point of view. It's a self-serving, man-made bullshit story. It's one of these things we tell ourselves so we'll feel noble. Life is sacred, makes you feel noble.

      Well let me ask you this, if everything that ever lived is dead, and everything alive is going to die, where does the sacred part come in? I'm having trouble with that. Because even with the stuff we preach about the sanctity of life, we don't practice it. Look at what we kill. Mosquitos and flies, because they're pests! Lions and tigers, because it's fun! Chickens and pigs, because we're hungry. Pheasants and quail, because it's fun, and we're hungry. And people! We kill people, because they're pests... and it's fun!

      And you might have noticed something else, the sanctity of life doesn't seem to apply to cancer cells, does it? You never see a bumpersticker that says 'save the tumors' or 'I brake for advanced melanoma.' No, viruses, mold, mildew, maggots, fungus, weeds, e. coli bacteria, the crabs, nothing sacred about those things. So at best, the sanctity of life is kind of a selective thing. We get to choose which forms of life we feel are sacred, and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal, huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole fucking thing up! Made it up, the same way we made up the death penalty. We made them both up, the sanctity of life and the death penalty. Aren't we versatile?".

      Learn something from that magnificent old fuck. Eat a stake tonight, stop trying so hard to be holier than thou.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    25. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by cbeaudry · · Score: 1

      Ask teh animal? OMG what a nutjob.

      Millions, billions how about gazzillionssss. sheesh.

      Roughly 3% of the population in the West are veggies.

      Most veggies in the rest of the world are so by necessity not by choice. Put meat in front of them and they will gobble it up in a heart beat.

      About your crime justification bullshit, I can say the same of you and how you misstreat plants and kill them by the ba-gazillions. Its GENOCIDE I tells ya.

    26. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      When you say "the animal died humanely", you mean that it was an animal, member of the human species, and it then died? I mean, that's the only way a human can do things: Humanely. The word actually means "In a human way". Well, there's no other way for humans to do things than in a human way!.

      Usage example: "That human priest raped those kids humanely". And "That soldier murdered that Iraqi family in a human manner".

      I think we should just say "painlessly". I don't think "humanely" means what we think it means anymore.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    27. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      Yup. They also pray to him. All hail Joe Pesci. /Damn, second Carlin reference in the same fucking thread. //Most quotable bastard since Oscar Wilde.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    28. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "If everyone stopped eating meat today, they would have to immediately slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep etc. as the market as every day keeping them alive would be just sinking money for nothing. Nice short-term outcome, is that what you want? Then rather than saving these animals, the majority would cease to exist, as one of the main reasons we keep them is for their meat."

      So many logical fallacies in one paragraph...

      Yes, they would "immediately" slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep, etc. So what?
      Better that they do that and then STOP killing billions of animals every year, isn't it?

      "The majority would cease to exist".

      And?

      You obviously (stupidly) believe that there are billions of 'animal souls' locked in some kind of purgatory, just dreaming of the day they can 'enter' the body of a baby animal. You cretin.

      You aren't for "non-cruel livestock raising methods" because you eat animal products, idiot!

      It will do everything to solve the problem, you just can't being to question the insane society you have been brought up in.

    29. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      Ok. I agree with you.

      Hey everyone, listen here: pcermomb and I had finally got to an agreement, nobody eats meat anymore, ok?.

      Now, let's get to the other issue ... what the hell are we going to do with natural predators beside man? I mean, it's obviously not right for them to murder other animals either, right?

      So, we are going to need a lot of police. Also, how the fuck do you read his rights to a fucking lion with an antelope between his teeth?

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    30. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not the personal choice that annoys me, it's the evangelism. Good for you and how you choose to live. Leave me out of it.

      That also goes for your gods, your software licenses, your sexual proclivities, and everything else you really think I need to do because you like it so much.

    31. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by jamesh · · Score: 0

      Most meat animals have the same survival strategy. They've evolved in such a way that they continue on as a species while we eat some of them. The fact that we've had a hand in that evolution is just as valid for fruit/grain/vegetables/etc as it is for animals.

    32. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 0

      See, now you have nailed it: You feel nervous about it.

      That's all this is about. You idiots have no actual understanding of this issue, you haven't reached an ethical decision, you aren't on higher moral ground. You just feel nervous about it, because you are all fucking pussies, and try to push everyone around and change our ways because you refuse to get a fucking shrink.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    33. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As long as the animal lives and dies humanely, it's fine to eat it.

      Wot, in bed at a hospital with its loved ones present and offering false encouragement while calculating inheritance? Or in car crashes?

      The natural ways for prey animals to die are from starvation, being caught and butchered by predators, or by disease. I personally prefer that we use unnatural and inhumane methods, like shooting a spike into their brains.

    34. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a nutter. These domesticated animals will still be around in zoos and playpen farms. If we had a substitute for meat that was edible, there'd be little need to farm meat anywhere near to the extent we do now.

    35. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Please explain us why this is stupid.

      You forget all those cows and chickens are quite expensive to maintain. With them reeling in money to support them, those animals would have to be laid off. Of course you'll adopt one, but keep most won't.

      Pick something 'good' to do. Let's say eating fast food.

      If everyone quit eating fast food tomorrow, millions of people would instantly be out of work. These people have marginal if no other job skills, and in today's depressed economy, we wouldn't be able to absorb such a large number of unemployed workers in a single day. Therefore we would have massive unemployment leading to starvation and bloodshed. (most of them live paycheck to paycheck)

      That's why it's a stupid thing to say, because it takes the most absurd conclusion you can draw from a proposal and suggests that because an impossible and irrational response to the suggestion is what will happen (Everyone quit eating meat tomorrow)

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    36. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      I don't have numbers, but I did study animal ecology many years ago, and I seem to remember the most likely death for prey animals in a balanced local ecosystem is old age. (Predators don't kill whole herds, but only a small number of usually weaker individuals).

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    37. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by shish · · Score: 1

      going extinct is much better than letting them stay around and suffer

      You're clearly stressed about this, can we kill you now? :-)

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    38. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evidently you don't know about the feral hog problem. The problem is they can effectively survive in the wild, to the point where they've become an ecosystem-threatening pest.

    39. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by pcermomb · · Score: 1

      what the hell are we going to do with natural predators beside man? I mean, it's obviously not right for them to murder other animals either, right?

      So, we are going to need a lot of police. Also, how the fuck do you read his rights to a fucking lion with an antelope between his teeth?

      Why should what goes on in the wild be a factor in our decision? Humans are different from other animals because we are intelligent and we are civilized. That's what makes us human. That's why we discuss ethics.

    40. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      It's a reason to stop being lazy and buy your meat from a small shop that uses local farmers. Only fools eat the crap sold at a supermarket meat counter.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    41. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Another reason to stop eating meat.

      Another reason to stop eating meat? As if there were any reasons to stop eating meat?

      Sure, yes, raise the stuff as humanely as possible... And maybe a CAFO isn't that. Stop filling it full of artificial hormones and extra antibiotics and feed it a diet more compatible with its biology... Sure. It'd probably taste better as well.

      But stop eating meat? Why on Earth would anyone do that?

      Maybe stop eating select types of meat, because you've got dietary restrictions of some sort. If you're tying to eat a low-fat diet or something...

      But all meat? Entirely? About the only reason to cut out meat entirely is some kind of knee-jerk emotional reaction to the fact that cute little fluffy animals are getting turned into food.

      The fact of the matter is that meat is very good for you. Lots of good vitamins, fats, and protein all in one tasty package. There's a reason that strict vegans/vegetarians wind up taking so many supplements.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    42. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by pcermomb · · Score: 1

      Also, as a side note, you don't see something inherently unnatural about a diet that requires you to take nutritional supplements just to be in something resembling normal health?

      My family has been vegetarians since hundreds of years(I know that because my great-grandparents are ), perhaps a couple of thousands of years, given the culture I come from. I can comfortably say that having to eat meat for 'health' reasons is bs. Of course, vegetarians/vegans have to be much more mindful about their diet.

    43. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Haha, old age. That means "can't outrun the cheetah any more"

      Seriously, they eat the old and the infirm. You get old by living. It wouldn't be luck if you got out of life alive.

      Prey exists to be eaten and predators exist to eat them. Some years there will be more meat than is needed, some years not... Just like for humans, except that the whole thing is be definition not based on natural forces, but on thinks that we do that other animals that don't, like engage in economic activity which causes suffering to cause a number in some computer somewhere to go up even though in one's whole lifetime the number will never be made to go back down to zero, and you can't take the forwarding balance on to the next life.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    44. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      Also, how the fuck do you read his rights to a fucking lion with an antelope between his teeth?

      Very quickly, and from within the safety of a vehicle.

    45. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Lumpy · · Score: 0

      "That Sunni murdered that Shiite family in a human manner".

      Fixed that for you. Muslims kill each other far more than every soldier over there could..

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    46. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      "You never see a bumpersticker that says 'save the tumors' or 'I brake for advanced melanoma.' No, "

      Holy crap! I'm heading to CafePress right now to make those.. as well as fat-man XXXXL t-shirts that say "Anorexia Survivor."

      Your ideas are gold man!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    47. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Wild Boar tastes way better than the farm raised pig. The industrial farm crap we eat is bland and non-tasty.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    48. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      (most of them live paycheck to paycheck)

      News flash 90% of americans do that.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    49. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He'd have to suck someone else's dick or it would be like plugging an extension cord into itself in terms of protein intake.

    50. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by joebagodonuts · · Score: 2

      Humans are different from other animals because we are delusional and think we are civilized.

      FTFY

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    51. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by omi5cron · · Score: 1

      can we call it GREENocide..GREENicide...hah? hah? (slow day)!

    52. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by joebagodonuts · · Score: 1

      If everyone quit eating fast food tomorrow, millions of people would instantly be out of work. These people have marginal if no other job skills, and in today's depressed economy, we wouldn't be able to absorb such a large number of unemployed workers in a single day. Therefore we would have massive unemployment leading to starvation and bloodshed. (most of them live paycheck to paycheck)

      Nah. I'm sure the TSA is hiring.

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    53. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are millions or billions of healthy vegatarians.

      "Billions" would be at least 14% of the earth and really at least 25% since we have almost 7 billion people as of yet on this planet.

      Most people who try veganism get horribly sick and wind up being pescapalian (they eat fish) or they only eat chicken. Almost every vegetarian I know eats things like chicken ceaser salad/wrap/whatever because they need the meat; they won't touch red meat. Me, I can't go without meat for a week without my immune system failing; after a few days I lose my ability to heal (seriously, not only don't wounds heal, but the skin will start to deteriorate and form sores of its own accord).

      The fact remains that spiders kill bugs, eagles tear animals apart while they're alive, etc. World isn't a happy place with Obama riding a flying unicorn with a rainbow coming out of its ass.

    54. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by joebagodonuts · · Score: 1

      Most insightful thing I've read this year. :)

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    55. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      So, if we quit fast food, we get the pick of good managers in retail, and otherwise solve the world's overpopulation problem?

      I just quit fast food.

    56. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      That's okay; humankind has guns. Remember we don't even fuck with skunks; an advanced species may be able to raze us down for fun (we could certainly extinct skunks), but where's the profit and--more importantly-- why do you want to piss something off that's got nuclear missiles?

    57. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by camperdave · · Score: 1

      The Dodo was ugly as fuck and tasted like crap ... and it went, well, the way of the dodo.

      The dodo's eggs, found in their ground-level nests tasted good enough to the pigs, dogs, and other animals we brought to Mauritius.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    58. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Mod parent to +5 Insightful

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    59. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, as a side note, you don't see something inherently unnatural about a diet that requires you to take nutritional supplements just to be in something resembling normal health?

      This isn't true. Supplements aren't necessary, although being conscious of what you eat it is.

    60. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by mcneely.mike · · Score: 0

      I did. I asked my turtle. He said to use linux because too many terrible crimes had been committed in the past by Microsoft, like Bob, Office, Windows, etc.
      Please tell me you aren't abusing poor innocent computers by using WINDOWS, are you?

      Like the point about castor oil, though. Awful stuff. Small hands... smell like cabbage.

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      soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
    61. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by mcneely.mike · · Score: 0

      Usage example: "That human priest raped those kids humanely".

      That must mean the Catholic Church is the most humane organization in the world!

      --
      soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
    62. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by camperdave · · Score: 2

      Wild Boar tastes way better than the farm raised pig. The industrial farm crap we eat is bland and non-tasty.

      Ham and bacon are bland and non-tasty? Man, I gotta get me some wild boar!

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    63. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The trade is really that they get to exist at all, and we get to eat them."

      Sorry, but that really ranks up there as one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Was that meant to be comedic?

    64. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, obviously it would be a bad idea for everyone to stop eating meat at the same time. But if at some point in the future all humans have become vegetarians it would've most likely been through a slow gradual process. The insane short-term outcome you speculate about would never become reality. Instead we would gradually lower production over time.

      Your argument is similar to saying "If we all stop using petroleum today, the world economy will collapse!", which of course is silly, because it will be a much slower process, giving the market time to adapt.

    65. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by mcneely.mike · · Score: 0

      "That Sonny threw himself headlong into the tree in the most human manner...unless, of course, he was tragically beaten to death and then had the skiing accident faked in the most human way possible first."
      There FTFY.

      --
      soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
    66. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Uh you know that feral hogs aren't regular farm pigs, right? They're old-fashioned wild hogs or hybrids of wild hogs and farm pigs.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    67. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      How are we dealing with the endangered species ? By starting to eat them ? No, right ? We will deal with the currently domesticated species, the same way.

      We aren't "dealing with" endangered species very effectively at all - most of them are dying out.

    68. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ants must be yummy, then.

      /me, afk, digging his lunch

    69. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Blymie · · Score: 2

      A spike into their brain is both humane, and natural! We are part of nature after all, as are our spears, gun, and spikes!

      As for your other statement, look up the definition of humane.

    70. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      If everyone stopped eating meat today, they would have to immediately slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep etc.

      Oh sorry, I forgot that the industrial farmers would keep them alive at own expense, out of the kindness of their hearts, because they would feel sorry for all those poor cute animals in spite of the enormous costs of keeping them alive and housing and feeding them and treating their sicknesses etc. Or maybe you think the taxpayer could be forced to chip in and subsidize our poor furry friends? Apart from a blanket statement that my statement was "stupid", it's not clear to me who you think will bear the burden of the costs of maintaining all the livestock that nobody will want if the demand for meat is removed.

    71. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      If everyone stopped eating meat today, they would have to immediately slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep etc. as the market as every day keeping them alive would be just sinking money for nothing. Nice short-term outcome, is that what you want?

      Well, can't have that. Instead, everyone should keep eating meat. Mind you, we'll have to slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep, etc. to fulfill market demand.

      I'm pro-meat eating, but frankly, that argument is idiotic.

    72. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by mcneely.mike · · Score: 0

      Humans are different from other animals because we are intelligent and we are civilized.

      Never worked retail i see... 'man', is the most idiotic species on earth. We kill each other over stupid things, then stand in a lineup at a grocery store just for the privilege of yelling at some teenager about the store being out of tic tacs or some such.
      'Man' is the lamest species there is. PERIOD. Yeah, we can build bombs with which to kill each other with, but we can't even buy Christmas presents for kids without spending $1000.00 on a present on ebay that would have cost $200.00 if we had been smart enough to buy it when it was in stock at the store (and yelled at the clerk about them being out of stock).
      'Man' is pathetic. Let me spell that for you... PATHETIC!!!!!

      That's why i'm glad i'm from Roswell (well, just outside Roswell). That's why i'm glad i'm not human.
      P A T H E T I C !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      --
      soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
    73. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Blymie · · Score: 1

      When you say "the animal died humanely", you mean that it was an animal, member of the human species, and it then died? I mean, that's the only way a human can do things: Humanely. The word actually means "In a human way".

      No.

      Go read a dictionary.

    74. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by oldspewey · · Score: 1

      The key is to become a level 7 vegan - don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    75. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2

      Eat a stake tonight, stop trying so hard to be holier than thou.

      Eat a stake tonight? Naah. Waaay too much fiber. Also, splinters to the tongue? Yowch!

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    76. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by rainmouse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Good for you and how you choose to live. Leave me out of it.

      That also goes for your gods, your software licenses, your sexual proclivities, and everything else you really think I need to do because you like it so much.

      Is it really evangelising when your replying to an over-rated and factually incorrect rant? Or did you just glance at it without reading, take what I said out of context and slap on a ready baked crowd pleaser quote that could have been straight from any random day time talk show.

    77. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by BeanThere · · Score: 2

      I cannot believe this nonsense gets voted up to 5. Cows and chickens extinct because we stop eating them? Have you never heard of eggs and milk?

      Did you even read my post? Apparently I have heard of milk, because in my post I specifically mentioned dairy (????). Did you know that "milk" is a form of "dairy"? Apparently not. Anyway, if you read my post, and think about it, if we are keeping cattle ONLY for dairy, as opposed to now for dairy and meat and leather (we'd have to stop leather as the same cruelty of slaughtering arguments apply), then the number of uses of cattle is dramatically diminished, which means that in order for dairy farming to remain economical the price of milk would have to SKYROCKET - in fact very literally, the price of meat now (which is a reflection of production costs) would have to be added to the cost of milk, amortized over production time. Would people still buy milk if it cost, say, 10 times as much? And if people stopped buying milk due to skyrocketing prices compared to milk substitutes, then the milk/dairy market may collapse because it may become totally uneconomical.

      I didn't mention eggs for a couple of important reasons: Firstly, eggs are basically meat anyway. Secondly, and more importantly, if you actually go do some reading, you'll learn that the farming methods used to produce eggs are just as cruel to the hens as any other kind of poultry farming (e.g. battery farming, induced laying through starvation, etc.), if not more so. Therefore if the same logic is applied, and the goal is to eliminate suffering in animals, we'd have to stop egg farming --- egg production is just as inhumane.

      You could argue that it's *possible* to have humane egg production through better regulation and market demand through consumer awareness. Sure, it is. But it's possible to have humane *all kinds of farming* - and that was my argument.

      So either one is for humane farming - as I am (in which case both egg farming and ALL other meat production must be logically OK) - or one is for no farming at all - as the its-cruel-to-farm crowd feels (in which case egg farming must be stopped too).

      You can't believe my post got modded up because you obviously didn't really bother to read it properly or understand it.

    78. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Smauler · · Score: 2

      A very small proportion of the plant matter we eat has this property. Basically, anything that is grown in a field does not want us to eat it and never intended so.

    79. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Informative

      Most people who try veganism get horribly sick

      There are hundreds of millions of people on the Indian subcontinent alone who eat no meat - none whatsoever - from the moment they are born until the moment they die some 80 years later. They do not get horribly sick. They do not "wind up" eating fish or chicken. They live healthy, balanced, and lengthy lives.

      Fact.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    80. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Let's not try to pick apart an english word here.
      We may disagree with the context, but we all know what it means.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    81. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless of 'off-topic':
      Buy local, there is the answer. If you must buy meat (and I must ) buy from the farmer/rancher down-the-street. Get to know them, walk the facility with them (you may want to slip on something other than your patent leather reebok-by-gucci skater-wanna-be shoes though) be comfortable that the cattle are not eating their own poo, ask about diet, immunization, etc. If you are unwilling to invest even this much time in your own food . . . you deserve to eat whatever it is you are willing to let others kill for you.

      and, I'm not an anonymous 'coward' I just think tinfoil hats are not very effective.

    82. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      Check the context, I was responding to a post that said "Another reason to stop eating meat", not a post that said "Another reason to slowly and gradually over time phase out industrial livestock and poultry farming via a carefully planned strategy to minimize economic disruption and give the market time to adapt".

      We're still quite a way away from technology giving us cheap mass-produced artificial meat.

    83. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can't see the difference between human and animals, most everyone agrees that you are the delusional one.

    84. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Why does some peoples personal choice not to eat meat get you so angry?

      Why does some people's personal choise to eat meat get people so angry?

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    85. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      wow.. just wow.
      I need my coffee this morning... that was a horrific spelling of choice :P

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    86. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by silverglade00 · · Score: 1

      World isn't a happy place with Obama riding a flying unicorn with a rainbow coming out of its ass.

      Rule 34 strikes again...

    87. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      And now imagine someone looks upon humankind exactly the way you talked about animals . . .

      Actually that's all the more reason to keep at the top of our game, ruling over and managing the animal kingdom, keeping our hunting skills in top shape, etc., because if we become a bunch of "ooh the poor suffering animals let's give them equal rights" pansies, and an alien race rocks up here intent on killing us and eating us, we'll be a total walkover. I guarantee your pleas that they treat you humanely will fall on deaf ears. The laws of nature are not obsolete and never will be; any temporarily isolated and "progressive" civilization that forgets this, will learn a very hard lesson.

    88. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      All you've shown is that some people of a particular genetic background can live without eating meat.

      Fact.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    89. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      As attributed above, the ideas are George Carlin's. Now that he is dead there is probably a market for such things; get lumping.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    90. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Funny

      As hilarious as it sounds, it's true. I love me some pork, and I do go buy ribs from the store or whatever. But I've had wild boar ribs and they are a whole other thing, it might as well be another kind of animal. That's why all you well-exercised vegetarians and vegans are fucked when civilization collapses; we know you're delicious. Oh sure, if you take a city dweller and raise them on beer and frequent massages they're going to be tasty as well, but they just won't have the same kind of muscle structure, or the same depth of flavor that game meat has. And of all the game meat, the tastiest and least gamey is the boar... or the free-range vegan.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    91. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Triv · · Score: 1

      Veganism is an option.

      Yay! More industrially produced corn! :/

      Farming causes massive industrial pollution now, let alone on the scale necessary to feed a country of people who eat nothing else. I don't deny that the way we treat the animals we eat is disgusting, but you've gotta realize that, no matter how we do it, feeding a species like ours with a population the size of ours is going to suck no matter how we go about doing it, either for the animals involved or for the environment as a whole.

      Industrialized food production is going to continue because, for every person like you who cares, there are thousands of people who just need to eat dinner cheaply. Your best bet is to eat food from local farms and dairies, vegetarian or not, where you can take a walk through the place and see how they do business.

    92. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Veggiesama · · Score: 1

      but frankly I'd rather have some damned animal suffer for my pleasure than to hurt my self for their well being.

      Hey, at least you're honest about it.

    93. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You had me until you revealed yourself to be a troll with the bewildering Obama reference. Precisely what the fuck does Obama have to do with any of this?

    94. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well said, well said.

    95. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1
      The kind folks over at the American livestock breeds conservatory would gladly tell you about a number of very tasty cow breeds that are going extinct because they don't fit with modern grain based farming.

      I <3 oreo cows.

    96. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As evolved beings, for being empathetic to pain and suffering of other creatures, there need not be a god or life need not be sacred. Religion is irrelevant in this discussion.

      And, yes, nature may be harsh in many ways, but why should that be the justification for EVERYTHING that we do ? After all, as humans, we have grown beyond the limitations nature has imposed on us in so may ways.

      Also, how is killing pests for our survival and killing animals for our pleasure be equivalent ?

    97. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 2

      Don't take it so personally - particularly since you didn't evangelize. I was just responding to the query that seemed to form the core of your post, in general form.

      Thanks for insulting me in reply, though. That really tells me a lot about you.

    98. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by silverglade00 · · Score: 1

      ... a fucking lion with an antelope between his teeth?

      That's one busy lion!

    99. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Skreems · · Score: 1

      Uh... the Japanese "eat" wales (at least consume them for an economically driven purpose), and that isn't working out so great for them. And pretty much every sea-faring nation at one point or another had whalers, because the fat alone was worth quite a lot back in the early industrial era, since whales are basically giant mobile blobs of lamp fuel.

      I think it's more: "be delicious or have useful byproducts, and be small / dumb enough to be easily farmed"

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
    100. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Skreems · · Score: 1

      I can only say that you have no IDEA what tasty goodness you're missing out on.

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
    101. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by ThatMegathronDude · · Score: 1

      I have a degree and a decent paying full-time job; too much debt to effectively save money thanks to financing my own education.

    102. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, Sir, are an idiot.

    103. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by cusco · · Score: 0

      Woosh!

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    104. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just uncovered the real problem: our population. Maybe we should just start an open season on humans? That way, we'd keep our population in check while also giving the hunters their cheap meat.

    105. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by llamapater · · Score: 1

      I dunno how well methane hovers around maybe on a windless day or if cafo puts out enough for this to be feasible. However the possibility that the birds could have flown through a methane cloud large enough to gas them seems worth investigating. Least more likely than fireworks in New York if it blew the birds ear drums they'd just start flying into crap or high altitude hail/lightning there not retarded they'd land for apocalyptic bird massacring high altitude weather.

    106. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by dara · · Score: 1

      "If everyone stopped eating meat today, they would have to immediately slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep etc. as the market as every day keeping them alive would be just sinking money for nothing. Nice short-term outcome, is that what you want?"

      Yes.

      I'm OK with all the dairy going away too (we can figure out plant based milks on a larger scale if needed).

      I'd be happy to see pets go away and people reduce their fertility so we can head to a saner Earth human population like 2-3 billion.

      Of course I don't expect any of these to happen in my lifetime - doesn't mean I don't want them.

    107. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Veggiesama · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you missed the GP's point. Plenty of atheists/agnostics are vegetarians/vegans. You don't have to believe in God or the supernatural to believe that unnecessary suffering, to humans or animals, is wrong.

      "But animals eat other animals, so it's natural!"

      If eating meat is natural because animals do it (and if something that's "natural" is also "good"), then rape, incest, and shitting in the same river that you drink from would be just as tolerable. However, our highly evolved brains allow us to circumvent Nature's cruel impulses with reason and empathy. We can use science to figure out that shitting in the river is a great way to spread disease, and we can use empathy to understand that raping your co-worker after the Christmas party wouldn't be quite as fun for the co-worker as it would be for you.

      Nature, "red in tooth and claw", is both cruel and amoral. However, there is no reason why we have to be like Nature.

      To paraphrase Richard Dawkins: our genes gave us our brains, but our brains have the power to subvert the will of our genes.

      "Why care about chickens and pigs when we don't give a shit about mosquitos, fungi, and cancer cells?"

      While I adore George Carlin, I think he's slightly off the mark here. We care about chickens, pigs, cows, dolphins, etc. because they are mammals and birds. They possess complex nervous systems that can sense pain, adapt to their surroundings, and protect their kin. Most can learn, socialize, and even dream. In other words, they're a lot like us.

      If I cut the limb off a tree, I know it won't scream. It doesn't feel pain, because it's not equipped with an apparatus to sense pain. Why should it? Pain is a response to external threats, designed by evolution to rescue a creature from something that could destroy it. Pain teaches me not to touch the hot stove again, and the simple idea of pain is powerful enough to make me flee from hungry wolves, even if they haven't nipped me yet. A tree has already prepared its defenses: a thick coat of armor against predators, and waxy, water-resistant leaves for storms. If a tree is in danger, it can't fight or run away. It just sits there. A tree that could sense pain would be the product of cruel and wasteful design, indeed.

      Do mosquitos and flesh-eating bacteria sense pain? I don't know, but I'd guess they experience some limited form. Even so, I do know that, as parasites, they are quite a nuisance. The amount of suffering/pain/disease they inflict on more complex life forms far outweighs the amount of suffering I might inflict by killing them.

      Keep in mind, death != suffering. The Humane Society puts stray dogs and cats to sleep because letting them run free or starve is more hazardous and painful than allowing them a peaceful release.

      --

      Anyway, I'm starting to ramble, so I'll be quick with my final point: the GP asked to limit your meat consumption gradually because it is impractical and uneconomical for society to stop all at once. Buy meat from animals that have had their suffering reduced to minimal levels. Only you can create the demand for such products, because you have the choice. Eventually, forgoing all meat would make the vegetarian groups happy, but they are willing to compromise with reduced levels.

      One day the technology may exist for us to "grow" our own meat without a brain or nervous system that has to sense pain and suffer. We might design our meat without gristle and bone, concentrating on the most tender and delicious cuts. It might even be cheaper than growing real meat the old-fashioned way. At that point, many will finally consider it unequivocally immoral to kill animals for food (barring famine). Much like how we see slavery today, they will look back at our ancestors and ask how an entire civilization could exist that engaged in the wholesale slaughter of innocent life, pumped through factory farms and made to sleep in its own filth at night.

      Because meat tasted good? What the fuck?

    108. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Clandestine_Blaze · · Score: 1

      Please explain us why this is stupid.

      You forget all those cows and chickens are quite expensive to maintain. With them reeling in money to support them, those animals would have to be laid off. Of course you'll adopt one, but keep most won't.

      Well, I wouldn't call it stupid, but just that it is presented as a false dichotomy. The only options that you're giving us in this scenario is either keeping them in expensive farms or slaughtering them. I'm sure that some can be released into the wild, just not all at once.

      I personally eat meat, as I feel that it's part of nature. If a hungry animal out in the wild saw me, it may try to eat me without giving it a second thought. I appreciate the food that I eat, and am thankful for it and try not to waste it. I do try to imagine what it must be like though, I mean, what would happen if there were a new species in the food chain that was above us, and they decided to keep us in farms for the sole purpose of butchering us and selling our meat. That won't happen in my lifetime, but it's why I appreciate my food rather than take it for granted.

    109. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by broggyr · · Score: 1
      humane
      [hyoo-meyn or, often, yoo-] - –adjective

      1. characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy for people and animals, esp. for the suffering or distressed: humane treatment of horses.

      2. of or pertaining to humanistic studies.

      --
      Irony? Yea, it's like goldy and bronzy, only it's made of iron!
    110. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by BronsCon · · Score: 0

      You'd think someone with an all-caps, no punctuation user name would get "PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI PUDDI" right.

      But, then, you'd be wrong, wouldn't you?

      (Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.)
      Shouldn't that read "Filter error: Don't use so many PUDDI. It's like posting on 4chan."? And what the hell, Slashdot, I AM yelling! How many lowercase letters do I need to type before you'll accept this comment?

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    111. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've said that for years! Some of the non-meat eaters are the worst offenders of plant abuse.

      "Save the plants. Stop killing helpless plants, just to eat them!"

    112. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Hatta · · Score: 1

      World isn't a happy place with Obama riding a flying unicorn with a rainbow coming out of its ass.

      That's obviously ludicrous. Unicorns can't fly.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    113. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      A few species going extinct is much better than letting them stay around and suffer for generations to come.

      That is what I said about the starving African nations.

      No one listens to me though.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    114. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There are entire communities in India (brahmins etc) who are strict vegetarians because of religious reasons. These customs/traditions are thousands of years old. Those folks are running around fine and healthy after centuries of not eating meat ?

      Vegetarianism is also a way of life for lots of people there. People do eat meat, but it is mostly like once a week. So there ....

    115. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Hatta · · Score: 1

      While I adore George Carlin, I think he's slightly off the mark here. We care about chickens, pigs, cows, dolphins, etc. because they are mammals and birds. They possess complex nervous systems that can sense pain, adapt to their surroundings, and protect their kin. Most can learn, socialize, and even dream. In other words, they're a lot like us.

      Actually, you're making Carlin's point for him here. We care more about chickens than flies because they're more like us, supporting his argument that the "sanctity of life" arises entirely out of self interest.

      Much like how we see slavery today, they will look back at our ancestors and ask how an entire civilization could exist that engaged in the wholesale slaughter of innocent life, pumped through factory farms and made to sleep in its own filth at night.

      Actually, I look at our history of slavery today and see great parallels with our current society. It's not at all surprising that it happened, and could easily happen again. Looking back at it with any degree of incredulity is naive to say the least. The aspects of human nature that made slavery possible continue to dominate our society.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    116. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      Domesticated hogs do just fine in the wild. I don't even believe hogs were native the the Americas.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    117. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by eleuthero · · Score: 2

      Maybe the animals as you say are happy to make the trade-off but until we're sure and give each one the choice we shouldn't assume

      I am reminded of the cow in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. I was thinking about this recently and it occurred to me that at least animals can offer some resistance (it might be futile but they could resist). All those poor carrots though... and lettuce. Will no one think of the lettuce? It can't even try to run away. All of you awful vegans destroying millions of poor beans and rice plants just because you can't handle meat. /end humor

    118. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      forcing them to sell their product for the barest survivable profit

      Free market's a bitch.

      In reviewing the tennants of the free market, a true free market has no profit being made because profit is the measure of ineffeciency.

      You wouldn't want to be a socialis

    119. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, as a side note, you don't see something inherently unnatural about a diet that requires you to take nutritional supplements just to be in something resembling normal health?

      Food is a nutrtional supplement and vice-versa. The difference between the two is a matter of semantics.

    120. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Deffiz · · Score: 1
      I'm with you 100%, except for one thing: energy.

      Best explained with two points:
      1. Carbon footprint
      2. Area at sea level needed to capture enough sunlight to be able to produce and sustain a cow (or pig) until it is ready for slaughter.
    121. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MOST animals don't eat other animals. Otherwise there wouldn't BE any animals left, would there.

      You cannot have 6 BILLION omnivores, the size of human beings, on this planet, without things going wrong. We are not supposed to eat meat. We are not fast enough to catch the animals that we eat. We cannot bring them down with our hands. We cannot kill them with our bare hands. Try killing a cow with your bare hands, and then eat their uncooked bodies with your bare hands. Or a pig. See how long you last before you die of food poisoning, get worms, etc.etc.

      You eat meat because everybody around you does, as simple as that.

      How I laugh when meat eaters try to make out that they've actually THOUGHT through any of this. You obviously haven't.

      You do it because EVERYBODY ELSE DOES. How stupid a reason is that?

      The original poster of the stupid post about how we would have to kill all the animals if everybody gave up meat tomorrow is just beyond stupid. As are all the supposedly 'grown up' people who get all defensive whenever their 'right' to kill 4,000 animals each is questioned. Yes, that's right, 4,000 animals are eaten by the average person in their lifetime. Multiply that by say a billion people in the West who eat that many, and we are talking about unbelievable pain and suffering - and you wonder why your life isn't working, and the world is full of evil people who you can't trust?

    122. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by dheltzel · · Score: 1

      Wow, I learned a new word today. I would have guessed that a "pescapalian" was the child of a Presbyterian and an Episcopalian.

      Thanks for the education. Now I have to figure out how to slip that into casual conversation at work. That'll be a hoot.

    123. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I don't know if it's correct. A cute girl in my class described herself that way, because her skin started to rot away when she went vegetarian and she almost died. What the hell?

      This forums post pops up: http://www.thrashunlimited.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=155519&sid=6de3a40271f6c89a108e0224842a0d0c#p155519

      As for "Correct," I don't know.

    124. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "because you are all fucking pussies, and try to push everyone around and change our ways"

      Thus spoke the 'hero', who obviously would be quite happy to die in the same way as an animal in a slaughterhouse does.

      Or be forced to live with broken legs, as millions of 60 day old chickens do, because they were bred so that they would put on weight faster than their bodies can cope (and producing eggs every day takes all the calcium out of their bodies).

      In other words, you are a typical 'me me me' 'I haven't grown up yet' idiot, who actually thinks that your pretence at wanting to intellectually discuss this, is fooling anybody.

      You eat meat because you are afraid not to. You are afraid of what your 'friends' (LOL) would say to you. Because they are douchebags just like you.

      You are incapable of feeling the suffering of others, and like a three month old baby, the only being whose feelings actually exist in your world, is yourself... How pathetic.

      I've reached an ethical decision, I'm a vegan, and have been for thirty years, and I'm definitely on higher moral ground than fools like you.

    125. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Case in point: unwanted horses in the US used to be sold to slaughterhouses. Through years of pressure, slaughterhouses stopped processing horse meat; the last one was shut down a couple years ago, and all the equine rescue operations are full. So now what happens to horses that people can't afford to keep? They are neglected and left to starve to death. Well, that's certainly more humane than eating them or feeding them to dogs, isn't it?

    126. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Tastiness as such is no survival trait - being tasty and efficiently farmable under the abomination that is the capitalist food production system is one. It's not only a thing with american breeds, we have the same problem in Europe, be it with cows, pigs or chicken. I am lucky enough to get my hands at some Schwäbisch-Hällisches pork directly from the farmer every now and then, though...

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    127. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Just do as the Dali Lama does: eat meat every other day so that you can truthfully claim you have been a vegetarian for half of your life!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    128. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by rainmouse · · Score: 1

      Don't take it so personally - particularly since you didn't evangelize. I was just responding to the query that seemed to form the core of your post, in general form.

      Tone is very hard to read with pure text and I'm sorry if you felt genuinely insulted by what I said; However its easy to read a comment as directed personally when its an immediate reply to my post and using the words 'you' and 'your' 7 times in two lines.

    129. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by dasunt · · Score: 1

      Most of us need proteins, also at least one amino acid is from eating meat afair. And for all you veggies out there, yes I'm very well aware that you can achieve the same protein through vegetables and you can take nutrition supplement to get the amino acid, but frankly I'd rather have some damned animal suffer for my pleasure than to hurt my self for their well being.

      You are misinformed. All necessary amino acids can be found in plant sources, and it isn't hard to do.

      There are two things you may be thinking of.

      The first is B12, which most vegans should take as a suppliment or a fortified food. B12 isn't synthesized by animals (it's from bacteria), but animal flesh contains it, while washed vegetables may not have adequate amounts. (A B12 deficiency, btw, can take years to develop, the body is pretty efficient at reabsorbing the B12 it uses.)

      The second is a bit more complex, and basically has to deal with omega 3 fatty acids, it's relationship to omega 6 fatty acids, and synthesis of one form of the omega 3 fatty to another form of omega 3 fatty acids. Just google it if you are interested in more information.

      That being said, as far as health goes, vegan diets tend to be associated with healthier bodies. It's possible to be a junk food vegan and harm yourself, but it's possible to do that with any diet. It also tends to result in a smaller impact on the environment: It (roughly) takes 1000 calories of grains to make 100 calories of beef. Plus, with current factory farming methods, it probably isn't the best idea to regularly give preventative antibiotics to creatures we share diseases with, such as swine and poultry.

    130. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 0

      Might have something to do with you being a flaming asshole of a racist fuck with less brains than a cockroach, but hey, just go on believing they are after you for your superior insight.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    131. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      What was racist about what I said?

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    132. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, as a side note, you don't see something inherently unnatural about a diet that requires you to take nutritional supplements just to be in something resembling normal health?

      Ok, I have to take a stab at this even though it's off topic. I'm a meat eater, I'm a hunter, and I don't believe anyone should eat a diet that someone else wants them to, BUT I spent 5 years as a vegetarian (3 years) and vegan (2 years) and I feel the need to shoot the "supplements" myth in the face. I never took supplements, I hate soy protein and I'm allergic to milk (hence the vegan part of my life). I just ate properly. I didn't fill in my diet with junk like pasta and poptarts, I reworked it. I ate 6 times a day, I ate legumes and grains that made up complete proteins, tons of fresh veggies and greens, fruit, and nuts. I ate 3400 cal a day and worked out for 4 hours a day - I have never been in that good of shape before or again in my life. I had been borderline diabetic and my cholesterol was so bad the Dr was about to put me on drugs for it. While I was vegan my blood sugar and cholesterol changed to "what my Dr. should set his standards to for other patients". No part of that required meat/eggs/dairy or supplements. It required changing everything about how I thought of and ate food, constant food prep and eating, hours of adding up protein/fat/cal values ... It was a major PITA

      Being a vegan was the most beneficial and difficult thing I ever did. Someday I will go back to it, because I honestly feel it was the best diet I could eat for health and nutrition. Even if it was the worst for convenience and time.

      On a side note, it's now been 4 years since that 5 year stretch. My labs are starting to stuck again, the energy is lower and the weight is much harder to keep off. Dr asked me if I thought about going vegan again since I was far healthier then.

    133. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by John+Hasler · · Score: 2

      Many plants contain toxins intended to discourage animals from eating them. That's one of the reasons you have a liver.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    134. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by kevinNCSU · · Score: 1

      The same economic arguments were used against freeing slaves but the predictions didn't come true.

      What's amazing is you probably honestly believed you came down on the non racist side of that equation when in actuality you just said "Well if African American's can survive on their own without being worse for the wear than surely dairy cows can!"

    135. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Are you implying there isn't farming to feed all the animals we eat? It's much, much more efficient to dedicate that farming area for human edible vegetables than to proxy them through animals, losing a ton of energy in the process.

      I'm not advocating stopping eating meat, but that's not an argument.

    136. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Yay! More industrially produced corn! :/
      Incorrect. While corn contains a lot of nutrients, humans are unable to get much nutrition out of it. Our inferior single stomach is not very good at breaking down the tough cellulose of raw corn. Cooking it breaks down the cellulose but also causes other nutrients to be destroyed. For best results in obtaining the nutrients available in raw corn, you should feed it to a cow and then eat the cow.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    137. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Actually, this so-called "vegetarian" diet of backcountry China and India... isn't. As was discovered when it was examined more closely, primitively-processed grains and vegetables contain so much insect remains and rodent shit, that in fact this so-called vegetarian diet contains as much or even more animal protein as the average Western diet that consumes red meat.

      When modern clean processing reduces the animal-based contaminants from these backcountry "vegetarian" diets, malnutrition is the immediate and direct result.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    138. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by kevinNCSU · · Score: 1
      Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in starting a post on animal treatment like this:

      Ok, either you are a very successful troll,

      And then starting your argument with:

      Look, there is NO GOD

      Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I can only respond by saying that clearly we ALL know vi is the BEST text editor.

    139. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous+Cow+Nerd · · Score: 1

      If everyone stopped eating meat today, they would have to immediately slaughter billions of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep etc. as the market as every day keeping them alive would be just sinking money for nothing. Nice short-term outcome, is that what you want? Then rather than saving these animals, the majority would cease to exist, as one of the main reasons we keep them is for their meat. It would also cause the price of products like dairy to skyrocket, it may even become totally uneconomical, in which case rather than saving these animals, you may just drive them extinct. These animals are domesticated, it's not going to be like a Disney movie where they are all freed into the wild to survive happy and free on their own, they don't have survival skills - we keep them alive. The trade is really that they get to exist at all, and we get to eat them.

      I'm all for non-cruel livestock raising methods but ceasing to eat meat is completely illogical, it doesn't do anything to solve that problem at all, in fact it may exacerbate it, since by stressing the market for meat products you directly put pressure on farmers to cut corners price-wise. There are better ways to solve that problem; lobbying for regulation and enforcement, raise public awareness, and selective boycotting - e.g. name and shame the worst farms. These methods have done huge amounts to help improve farming conditions for animals.

      Coles notes version: "If everyone in the world became a vegetarian simultaneously, it would be devastating for the meat industry". Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

    140. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boring spam from dead overrated comedian. Beats thinking for yourself or coming up with your own opinions. Well done boring faggot fuck.

    141. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by ildon · · Score: 1

      Eating a stake will give you splinters. Try steak instead.

    142. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Oh, I apologize to the cockroaches. Also, see your sig.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    143. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      It's not at all surprising that it happened, and could easily happen again

      They send letters now, in advance of the whips.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    144. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by oldmac31310 · · Score: 5, Funny

      How do the 'British' feel about the Japanese eating Wales? I'm surprised we have not heard about this before. Why don't the Japanese eat England and leave Wales alone?

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    145. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Dishevel · · Score: 1
      My sig has nothing to do with Race. Oh. Wait. By racist you do not actually mean racist. You mean 'I don't like you and wish to call you bad names.'

      Cool. I get it now.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    146. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just ask people to criticize vegetarians or any other person's diet when they themselves have some conscious, intentional diet.

      Say anything about the homemade meal I brought, while you are eating out of whatever fast food bag you decided to get today, and I just ignore it.

      I'm an on-again off-again vegetarian, and old enough to have had *many* on-off phases, and I've been surprised quite often by how vocal people can be in their opposition to my diet -- as if it is any of their damn business in the first place. It shouldn't even be an issue, but sometimes they choose to try to make it into one.

    147. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      No thanks. In fact, I’m thinking about stopping by the store... the air rifle needs more ammo and the squirrels have been prolific lately.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    148. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      I mean, that's the only way a human can do things: Humanely. The word actually means "In a human way".

      No; “humane” means “Having regard for the health and well-being of another [human]; compassionate”... and it begs the question “should animals be treated as if they were human? isn’t that sort of illogical?”

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    149. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      And he, presumably with a tradition of cooking that comes uninterrupted from at least several generations and probably more, enjoys things that you have no concept of yourself.

      I'm sure it's not a contest between you and him as to who gets the most delicious food.

      I try not to even have conversations like this until I am first certain that everyone involved is cooking something close to 100% of their meals themselves, with some skill and well-chosen ingredients. If you are comparing your restaurant diet to the OP's home-cooked diet, the vegetarian versus carnivore question doesn't even enter into it from my point of view. On the other hand if you are trying to compare your cooking to his, knowing next to nothing about what he cooks, you are simply being arrogant for the sake of your own arrogance.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    150. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Look, there is NO GOD

      Prove it. You can no more prove your assertation that there is no God than I can prove the fact that he's revealed himself to me.

      Well let me ask you this, if everything that ever lived is dead, and everything alive is going to die, where does the sacred part come in? I'm having trouble with that. Because even with the stuff we preach about the sanctity of life, we don't practice it. Look at what we kill. Mosquitos and flies, because they're pests! Lions and tigers, because it's fun! Chickens and pigs, because we're hungry. Pheasants and quail, because it's fun, and we're hungry. And people! We kill people, because they're pests... and it's fun!

      Bhuddists would argue with that. I was chewed out really good by a Bhuddist once in Thailand, for swatting a fly. The Bhuddists worship life (I may be mistaken, but I think the Hindus do as well). Killing any animal is taboo to them (although there was plenty of meat-eating, which kind of confused me about the place).

      Eat a stake tonight

      Do that and you're be dead before morning, unless the stake (3a : something that is staked for gain or loss b : the prize in a contest c : an interest or share in an undertaking or enterprise) is a steak.

      See, the problem is "we". There is no we, everyone has different beliefs.

    151. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >Another reason to stop eating meat? As if there were any reasons to stop eating meat?

      YOU don't have a reason to stop eating meat and it's not clear that anyone is attempting to persuade you to do so.

      I don't have any reason to stop eating black licorice, but that doesn't make me want to stir up controversy about it. I don't feel threatened by the anti black licorice people.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    152. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually India has the worst life expectancy and highest rate of cardiac disease of any country I can think of offhand, but don't let that derail a good rant.

    153. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      plants have a different survival strategy, they want you to eat them

      their fruit is sweet so that birds will eat it and spread the seeds far and wide

      The latter is not adequate evidence of the former. It might be evidence that “plants want birds to eat their fruit,” but that wasn’t what you said.

      The plants’ seeds happen to be hardy enough to survive the short trip through a bird’s digestive system. Wanna guess what happens to them in your digestive system? What’s more, birds don’t have teeth with which to masticate their food. By chewing, you’re destroying the protective shells and membranes that prevented the seeds from being digested.

      And that still doesn’t even begin to justify eating their stems, leaves, seeds (i.e. destructively, such as nuts or beans), and roots.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    154. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by MadCow42 · · Score: 1

      I guess he hasn't ever been outside the USA...

      I'll just add to your comment on India - it's a vegetarian's dream... EVERY restaurant has a veg-only menu (and usually a meat one too), and the food is amazing and varied. I love meat myself, but if I lived in India I could easily be a happy vegetarian.

      MadCow.

      --
      I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
    155. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      A spike into their brain is both humane, and natural! We are part of nature after all, as are our spears, gun, and spikes!

      Given the choice between dying from a long, drawn out disease or a spike in the head I didn't know was coming, I'd probably pick the spike.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    156. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Call it xenophobia then. I was imprecise, I give you that.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    157. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Precisely what the fuck does Obama have to do with any of this?

      Precisely the part where if he'd told his supporters that he could make the world a happy place where nobody killed animals for food, they would have believed him. It's not like it would have been much harder to swallow than anything else he promised them.

    158. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The best pork I ever ate was some pork a friend raised. He had 5-10 pigs (a few other animals as well), and fed them cheaply. He had a friend who worked at a factory that made the mix that fast food restaraunts use to make ice cream out of, and Mike would get bucketloads of outdated ice cream mix, which he mixed with hog feed and fed his pigs.

      Compared to Mike's pigs, grocery store pork IS tasteless. But then again, so are tomatos from the grocery. Homegrown food almost always tastes. better.

      Plus, there's the "wild" taste you get from venison, rabbit, and squirrel that you probably get from wild boar. I've had rabbit that was raised in pens, and they lack it, and are bland in comparison.

    159. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      We are not fast enough to catch the animals that we eat.

      Maybe you aren’t fast enough, lard-ass, but don’t go saying “we” as if you get to speak for the entire human race.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

      And I’d have a hard time killing and dissecting that hunk of meat because (if you believe evolution) it took away my claws and fangs around the same time it gave me the brain I needed to fashion tools such as knives and utensils to take their place. Personally I’m okay with that trade-off.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    160. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      I love ethnic food. Even when it’s vegetarian. And I love meat. In fact, I love just about any food if it tastes good. I’m really not that hard to please, unless people start telling me I shouldn’t eat a particular type of food that does taste good... at all (okay, I get the whole principle of not eating too much or over-consuming one particular type of food, like dessert... that’s not what I’m talking about).

      Then I start getting annoyed.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    161. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by loxosceles · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. Most people can survive just fine long-term on a reasonably balanced vegan diet. If you're getting skin sores after a week there is something wrong with you and you should see a doctor. Most people can survive on water for a week without developing such serious problems. The immune system in normal people does not break down so severely after a week of poor nutrition, even assuming your vegan diet is poor. It's worth noting that going vegan does not mean cutting out meat. For the majority of westerners, whose diet already consists primarily of meat, sugar, and fat (oils of various kinds), cutting out meat would indeed be catastrophic long-term (though not after a week). A good vegan diet means cutting out meat, but also going out of your way to eat a variety of fruits and vegetables and seeds, nuts, and whole-grains, when you didn't before.

      Vegetarians do not eat chicken by definition. If they eat chicken caesar salads or fish, they are by definition not vegetarians.

      Vegetarians who eat fish are pescatarians, not pescapalians.

    162. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Way to miss his entire point.

      If the PETA logic says that we should solve the problems of animals having to suffer and endure impoverishment and hunger by just humanely killing them all, Africa has a pretty high concentration of suffering and poverty and hunger, so why doesn’t the same principle extend?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    163. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Skreems · · Score: 1

      I can eat his food. He cannot eat my food. I win.

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
    164. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      If he wanted to construct a reductio ad absurdum out of this, his sig pretty much concealed the intent. If I mistinterpreted that, well, apologies to the cockroaches, posters, and every sentient and nonsentient entity hanging around here.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    165. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 0

      > Look, there is NO GOD, there is just nature.

      And your proof of no god is where ... ?

      As a mystic, you're definition of GOD is overly-simplisitic. She* exists, just not in way that you can relate to him*.

      Aside that from, I have no qualms with the rest of your post.

      * She/Him is intentional.

    166. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no.

      Most Hindus have no problem with chicken, and in some parts of South India, eggs don't even count. Milk almost never counts -- the animal rights activist Maneka Gandhi was widely ridiculed when she suggested (rightly) that milk couldn't be part of a vegan diet. India's life expectancy isn't nearly eighty, although that would be very nice. I'm not saying a vegan diet dooms one to weakness, malnutrition or a reduced lifespan; merely that India is hardly the final word on the issue.

      I'm sure a balanced, healthy diet is still possible with almost any set of restrictions (vegan, Jain, Islamic, Jewish) one might choose, just as it is possible to remain open to every food in the world and still be unhealthy (that's most people, including I).

      Fact.

      (I know I'm right because I wrote the word 'fact'.)

    167. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by anyGould · · Score: 1

      I'll go one step further. I like the taste of meat, and don't feel any need to voluntarily lower my position on the food chain.

      That said, we shouldn't make anything suffer more than is necessary. Although I'd argue we might want to worry about our own species (who can and do tell us what they need), rather than project onto other species.

    168. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Dishevel · · Score: 1
      Xenophobia. Good one. I will laugh later. As the world pours just enough food into starving African nations to allow them to starve for yet another generation.

      But I am sure you feel good that is happening.

      Just because you think you know something dose not mean that you are not in fact an ignorant fuck.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    169. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      That goes against the definition of existing.

      If you can't relate to it in anyway, if you can't measure it, or interact with it in any way, then it doesn't exist.

      That whole "it's another plane of existence" is just nice words, it doesn't mean what you think it does.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    170. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by loxosceles · · Score: 1

      By that reasoning, almost nobody is a vegan or vegetarian. There's plenty of insect contamination of processed foods in the U.S. and Western Europe, too.

      Far from being dismayed that it wrecks the purity of my nominally vegan diet -- one of the staples of my diet is Kashi cereal for breakfast -- I'm thrilled that I'm getting at least a little bit of extra protein, nutrients, and B12 from that contamination.

      I pretty much agree with you that going vegetarian or vegan can be dangerous, and I'd eat whole insects if they were available. However, it does not have to be dangerous. Anyone with access to a western-style grocery store with a wide variety of produce can develop a very healthy diet while sticking to nominally vegan products with only trace amounts of insect parts and rodent droppings. The only issue in a sufficiently varied vegan diet is B12 (since it's only produced by bacteria in the guts of animals*), which is available in a ton of nutritional supplements (particularly as even omnivores are cutting back on meat consumption). It's now even being added to a variety of non-meat non-dairy products... I see it all the time as an additive in soy milk.

      The problem with the Asian "vegetarian" diets you cite is not that they're vegetarian, but that they're not varied enough. They have only one or two types of grains and legumes, typically, only a few staple fruits and a few staple vegetables. Furthermore, regional lack of variety in nutrients in the ground might lead to deficiencies in nutrients even in more well-balanced diets. While "green" foodies object to consuming fruits and vegetables that are not locally produced, one thing that does do is help provide a more varied trace mineral profile.

      * There was some indication that certain algae may produce a form of B12 that's usable, but I don't know if that's been confirmed.

    171. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh... the Japanese "eat" wales

      How do they avoid choking on all those l's and y's?

    172. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by blue+trane · · Score: 1

      If your argument can be used to support very bad things (like "vegetarianism/abolition is bad for the economy") then present more arguments (especially since the prediction that slavery would be bad for the economy was proven false). Let's delve deeper, not be satisfied with superficialities.

      The reason I don't eat meat is because I don't want to be eaten. Until I know that an animal wants to be eaten, I'm going to err on the side of safety.

      Vegetables are a different matter, because it is their survival strategy to produce fruit that birds eat and fly to other places and excrete seeds that spread the vegetable's genes.

      By this logic, root vegetables such as potatoes, carrots, onions, garlic are not ethically edible since you kill the plant. Jains have worked out a whole science of moral eating.

      The ultimate goal is to stop eating. Gain energy directly from the sun, or die by self-starvation to demonstrate your mastery of bodily instincts.

      But these are voluntary, self-imposed goals; Jainism includes lesser vows (anuvrata) for householders, who can choose to put off ultimate enlightenment until later in this life, or the next.

    173. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by QuantumBeep · · Score: 0

      Pull the bolts out of your skull, brother. He was joking.

    174. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by QuantumBeep · · Score: 1

      Gelato doesn't cast a shadow if you spread it real thin.

    175. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Dogtanian · · Score: 0

      Prey exists to be eaten and predators exist to eat them.

      No they don't. While I don't disagree with the assigned roles of predator and prey, the notion that they "exist" for a particular purpose is applying a value judgement to the way things simply are.

      For the most part, it makes sense to take it as axiomatic that a particular species' "purpose" is to survive and reproduce as much as possible- though even that is ultimately just a consequence of the fact that those with a tendency to reproduce better tend to propogate(!) However, beyond that, it's questionable. If the prey species was to evolve better defences or ways of outwitting the predator, who's to say that it's not fulfilling the role it should be?

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    176. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Schadrach · · Score: 1

      "Vegetarian" or vegan? In particular where exactly do you obtain things like that one amino acid that is one of the core reasons most vegetarians take nutritional supplements, because it's necessary to live and not present in plant matter?

    177. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by damaged_sectors · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We are not fast enough to catch the animals that we eat.

      Maybe you aren’t fast enough, lard-ass, but don’t go saying “we” as if you get to speak for the entire human race.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

      And I’d have a hard time killing and dissecting that hunk of meat because (if you believe evolution) it took away my claws and fangs around the same time it gave me the brain I needed to fashion tools such as knives and utensils to take their place. Personally I’m okay with that trade-off.

      As someone who occasionally agists horses - I often get owners coming and asking if I can "help" catch their horses - in 20 acre paddocks!. Horses think idiots "chasing" them are a great game... but seriously, as someone has spent time on stations where you can walk for week without seeing a fence - there is no land animal humans can't outdistance, or (potentially) outsmart. Motorbikes, quads, and helicopters is what you use to rounds up mobs of cattle - not single animals! You don't have to run - just walk you lazy, stupid, embarrassments to your ancestors. And I don't mean prehistoric ancestors - go back one century and you'd all have major problems. Sheesh - if you need to carry water for a half hour walk and think 3 hours a week in a gym makes you "fit" then, the, aw... just get off my lawn! ;-p

      I've been a vegetarian (who kills things) for 40+ years - I'm not political about it (I run sheep and cattle), eat what you want. That you can live healthily without meat, or with very little meat is a fact of life for much of the world's population. To say that a particular diet is the only diet for everyone is just foolish.

      If I had my "druthers" I'd farm roos instead, but I can't. Would I get more protein per acre if I didn't run cattle - possibly, but it's a moot point. I don't make the demand - the consumer does. And just to confuse the issue - most of the (western) "vegies" I meet a pale, pastey, embarrassments. Just like some of the pro-veg arguments in these threads.

      As for killing animals - I kill, skin, and clean rabbits all the time - no knives - just the same methods our hunter gatherer ancestors used (I suspect). A dog, my hands, and something sharp. It's not hard - dog grabs rabbit, I grab bunny by ears, dog drops rabbit. Snap rabbit neck == dead rabbit. Pinch skin in middle of rabbit's back, tear tiny hole with something sharp (stick, barb of wire), insert fingers, tear and tug - leaving a skinned rabbit. Head pulls off, back leg splits gut rabbit - check for parasites - feed dog (2 minutes, tops). The only difference between that and our ancestor is that my dog get all of it. My point being that our association with dogs is what meant we no longer needed to use of "fangs" and teeth to kill - or all a lot of our hearing and scent abilities. Oh, and to those who propose I'm cruel and disgusting - get a life princesses - and make sure you wash your hands when gardening while you're at it. :-)

      Natural, un-natural arguments are pointless - to paraphrase De Sade "if it wasn't natural, we couldn't do it".

      Nice sig - sent that troll my love last night, and a quick response this morning. :-D

      And where the hell are the posts about the fucking story folks? (sigh)

    178. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it wrong or unnatural for us to just do the same?

      I'm not saying it's wrong. But the big difference is that we have the choice.

      Look at what we kill. Mosquitos and flies, because they're pests!

      I generally don't kill insects anymore. They get shipped out if I can catch them.

    179. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by benhattman · · Score: 1

      It would also cause the price of products like dairy to skyrocket, it may even become totally uneconomical, in which case rather than saving these animals, you may just drive them extinct.

      Sigh. You do know that dairy cows are not generally slaughtered for meat, right? Usually, beef cattle and dairy cattle are not even raised on the same farm.

      Leather, on the other hand, you could make a valid case for causing trouble if everyone stopped eating beef tomorrow.

    180. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by oldspewey · · Score: 1

      The fact you would conflate Indian and Chinese traditional diets reveals you to be breathtakingly ignorant, but I'll tell you what sport: since you allude to an "examination" of these diets then you should have little trouble linking to the studies that support what you're saying.

      Or is it that you're just full of shit?

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    181. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Sorry, mistyped the critical keyword can -> think. Thanks for the catching that!

      It should read:
        "She* exists, just not in way that you can relate to him*.
            ->
        "She* exists, just not in [the] way that you think you relate to him*.

      You are _always_ relating to God, by definition. The question isn't "Does God exist?", but "To what degree are you conscious that you are [relating]?" but I digress ...

      > That goes against the definition of existing.
      > If you can't relate to it in anyway, if you can't measure it, or interact with it in any way, then it doesn't exist.

      So, just like Dark Matter, and Dark Energy ? :-)

      The concept of zero / infinity before it was discovered ? The summation of an infinite series that converges, e.g. Sum(n=0,inf,2^-n) ?

      You're using a rather fallacious definition of existing.

      e.g. Most people are ignorant of consciousness above & below the human type. That doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means they simply are not (yet) aware of the 7 levels of consciousness.

      > That whole "it's another plane of existence" is just nice words
      Nope. That's ignorant dualistic a/theistic thinking, and an extremely limited perspective on what you think "God" is. God is _inclusive_and_, not _exclusive_or_. e.g. "I'm physical, so God must be in this "magical" spiritual state??" The reality is "God" is meta-physical AND physical -- the key phrase being multi-dimensional. Physical reality is only _one_ dimension of God. An crude analogy, at the risk of sounding like a trite Kan *, would be a drop of water in the ocean: The drop of water is part of the ocean, and the ocean is part of the drop of water.

      Cheers

      * I'm not a Buddhist, but they understand the importance of multi-paradigm meaning.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dan

    182. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Both your post and your sig show that you are more interested in insults and misrepresentation than facts. Libertarianism is not anarchism.

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    183. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by oldspewey · · Score: 1

      Okay, so persuade me.

      Find me the links to the study that confirms "in fact this so-called vegetarian diet contains as much or even more animal protein as the average Western diet that consumes red meat." I mean if I'm all about misrepresentation, then you should have little trouble proving me wrong.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    184. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a reason they used to call it "Long Pork".
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_pork

    185. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      You are schizophrenic.

      I find it so funny when religious types try to sound academical. And I make a huge mistake by trying to disprove your delusions with logic.

      You are just a deranged lunatic that believes in mythical creatures, and it's not logic's business to deal with your delusions, I'll leave that to psychologists.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    186. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      They do not get horribly sick.

      Obviously you've never been there.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    187. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your argument is complete (pardon the pun) poop. If you stopped raising animals for CAFOs, and simply processed the ones that already existed, you would not have the dire gloom and doom you are predicting. And while there would still be cattle and chickens and pigs going to slaughter, there WOULDN'T be enormous foul-smelling feed lots destined to churn out cheap hamburgers for your local food extruder.

      I'm not advocating that you stop meat completely - I'm merely saying you've set up your argument with some rather shaky foundations.

    188. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      You should check the research done on those Indian vegetarians who moved to the UK - and started becoming ill on those diets.

      It turned out that they were getting lots of animal protein in their "vegetarian" diets - in the forms of bugs and larvae in their food, at a significant enough of a level to forfend the health problems that some encountered when they relocated to a place where the food supply was regulated enough to keep the little critters out of the veggies. (Research done by HL Abrams, published in the Journal of Applied Nutrition, 1980)

      Besides, most Indian vegetarians are not vegans - they, too, are ovo-lacto.

    189. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should visit India sometime.

    190. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Billions" would be at least 14% of the earth and really at least 25% since we have almost 7 billion people as of yet on this planet.

      http://www.raw-food-health.net/NumberOfVegetarians.html

      There are close to half a billion people on this earth who are vegetarians.

      Most people who try veganism get horribly sick and wind up being pescapalian (they eat fish) or they only eat chicken. Almost every vegetarian I know eats things like chicken ceaser salad/wrap/whatever because they need the meat; they won't touch red meat.

      Maybe you don't know enough vegetarians. Or one reason could be the very limited vegetarian palette in the west. Try tasting some Indian vegetarian food for a week and you'll know what I mean.

      Me, I can't go without meat for a week without my immune system failing; after a few days I lose my ability to heal (seriously, not only don't wounds heal, but the skin will start to deteriorate and form sores of its own accord).

      Could you point me to a study that says eating vegetarian causes weakened immunity. I'm not seeing the light. Have you heard of a term called 'Ayurveda' (I'm guessing not).

      The fact remains that spiders kill bugs, eagles tear animals apart while they're alive, etc. World isn't a happy place with Obama riding a flying unicorn with a rainbow coming out of its ass.

      Everybody outside humans who kill do so because they must to survive, but there is one very important difference between humans and animals... the ability to think.

      I for one was a meat eater for 6 years in my childhood. FYI, I'm an Indian.

    191. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I've never heard the term pescatarian.

    192. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by oldspewey · · Score: 1

      Five times and counting ... you?

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    193. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by oldspewey · · Score: 1

      Google turns up a lot of sites that paraphrase the above research (and for some reason I have trouble believing a site called "biblelife.org" is fully committed to scientific fact), but no sites showing the research paper itself. You happen to have a link?

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    194. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Phoenixlol · · Score: 1

      Jellyfish are people too...

    195. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      The Journal of Applied Nutrition does not have it archives available for free distribution, apparently - but you can order a copy from your local library, or you can purchase it at http://www.iaacn.org/Journal%20of%20Applied%20Nutrition.cfm. Of course, good research can be cited for all sorts of ends - but that doesn't stop it from being good research, and no one has contradicted it yet.

    196. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > I find it so funny when religious
      Please show me where I said I was religious?

      > You are just a deranged lunatic that believes in mythical creatures,
      Please show me where I said that?

      Thanks

    197. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by K10W · · Score: 1

      hate to piss on some peoples little parade but the old model of essential aminos is out of date. Sure it was what I was taught in uni (biochem degree but that was 14 years ago) but friends who are lecturers have told me since it's been somewhat rethought and many don't believe it's what they originally made out. No ref on that since I couldn't be arsed looking further TBH since it isn't of much interest to me personally. Even in the old model which I do remember meat ranked pretty poor in the protein scales, and I'm talking about scales produced by meat eating biochemists. Funny enough the closest thing to egg (the top reference, specifically cooked egg white since uncooked is less bioavail and lowers score) is actually quorn (the raw fungal hyphae not the finished product. Problem I seem to remember my lecturer mentioning was the RNA content was high but they blitzed it with UV to solve that issue. Unsure how much this has changed these days but I remember that little gem of a module made all the "pro meat" and "soya has everything you need" veggies STFU leaving those of us who keep our dietary choice personal free to get on with out lives without preaching. For the record I am vegetarian but whether others chose to eat meat is their choice, I'll even cook it for friends and family since they cook vegetarian stuff for me. May seem hypocritical but my choice is my personal choice and I have no intention to force it on others. Before the old nugget plenty of animals die in vegan food production comes up, whilst this is true people overlook the fact death toll is higher for meat since animals don't photosynthesize last I checked so the same is ture of the production of their fodder and energy waste is higher so it's true point but invalid one for the purpose of pro meat argument as it actually weighs in against the pro corwd who often state it seeming to have little understanding of consequential reasoning.

    198. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by geekoid · · Score: 1

      when they heard, there was much wailing.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    199. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by geekoid · · Score: 1

      before you make another post, I highly recommend you study up on there:
      http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx

      your arguments make you look like a fool.

      Hundreds of millions is not billions, and it's 31%* of the population. vegitarians for most of them means lacto vegetarian. Many also eat eggs.
      Almost all restaurants of Non-vegetarian, vegetarian and lacto vegetarian dishes.

      Of course, you ahve bothered to do an real research and just take someone else's ignorant view and parrot it.

      I say shame on you sir, Shame on you.

      *that would be about 300 million. A lot, but not even a majority. Of course your argument that 'they do it over there' means jack over shit.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    200. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Actually he hasn't shown that at all. Most Indian vegetarians eat dairy products. So no, all he has shown is that he will take stupid ideological stance to back his decision and doesn't have the back bone just to admit he does it because he want's to. Instead he makes up argument based on logical fallacies.

      And India is only 31% vegetarian.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    201. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by geekoid · · Score: 1

      factory farming is he most efficient use of land, one of the most human ways to kill an animal, and has the least waste. You think it's bad because it's all stacked up, but of you had the same animal spread out over a 'natural' amount of land, it would be many times worse.

      " First of all, if we decide that dependence on/exploitation of animals is NOT an option, then, we CAN find ways."

      people are working on ways, and there will be vat grown meat. My guess is that it will probably be ass good as the top 95 percentile, and then there will be a few farms that specialized in top of the line actual cows.

      Also, don't suffer from the delusion that the cows know what's going on.

      "A few species going extinct is much better than letting them stay around and suffer for generations to come."
      no, it's not. You are so caught up in your BS you actually think extinction is a better option. a whole species wiped from earth for all time.

      You are one mean son of a bitch.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    202. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "ou seem to imply that a short cramped life waist deep in your own excrement while fed on growth hormones"

      haha, another person clueless on ranching and raising cows. They are given hormones, but 100 times less then an actual medical dose, almost all of which is pissed back out of the cow and none is detectable in the final product.

      Well done, you have bought into a PETA scare tactic. no logic, no science, but man, it sure helps you feel righteous, doesn't it?

      "(that cause all kinds of terrible issues)"
      such as.. no wait, don't bother, your just going to parrot form the script you have been indoctrinated with.

      "long term effects of growth hormone and antibiotic raised meat is largely unknown on humans at this time."

      since neither are detectable in the final products, and there is no empirical that there even is a problem, please stop using lies to support you crap.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    203. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by oldspewey · · Score: 1
      Well, if you're willing to dig up this thread and hammer on it some more I guess I'm game too ...

      your arguments make you look like a fool.

      Which arguments, and which specific logical fallacies am I engaging in?

      Hundreds of millions is not billions, and it's 31%* of the population.

      I never made any claims about billions of anything. The only claim I made was that hundreds of millions of people manage to live a vegetarian lifestyle in at least one place on earth with no difficulties. They do not "go back" to eating meat and the do not become horribly sick. Hundreds of millions is a pretty decent number; the kind of number that carries some statistical weight if you want to start throwing generalizations around (as did GP) about inevitable health consequences of a vegetarian diet.

      Almost all restaurants of Non-vegetarian, vegetarian and lacto vegetarian dishes.

      Yes, many restaurants offer different menus for different people, but in my observation quite a lot are also strictly veg - if they prepared even a single meat or egg-based dish inside their four walls, a certain percentage of their potential clientèle would never set foot inside the place, and they know it. For some other people, milk and eggs are fine most days of the week and year, and they use those to supplement their protein intake. No, not vegan, but still vegetarian by pretty much every definition I've seen.

      Of course, you ahve bothered to do an real research and just take someone else's ignorant view and parrot it.

      Does observing the day-to-day or week-to-week life of several practising vegetarians from India count as real research or ignorant parroting? I have seen exactly how an ethnic vegetarian diet from India works - which grains complement which other grains to form complete amino acid groups, which vegetables and legumes complement the various starches. I've also eaten this diet for weeks at a time (though I'm an incurable omnivore and I can't see myself ever giving up meat entirely) and my health was fine ... great even, since vegetarian fare seems to help reduce the acid levels in my stomach after I've been at it for several days in a row.

      Of course your argument that 'they do it over there' means jack over shit.

      Which argument is that? You seem to be confusing me with somebody who said "they do it over there so everyone should do it over here." I never actually said anything like that. I only stepped into this thread to offer some evidence to counter some rather outlandish claims I was reading.

      I say shame on you sir, Shame on you.

      Awwww, well now you're just trying to sweet-talk me.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    204. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The plants’ seeds happen to be hardy enough to survive the short trip through a bird’s digestive system. Wanna guess what happens to them in your digestive system? What’s more, birds don’t have teeth with which to masticate their food.

      Birds, however, do have a gizzard that is usually well stocked with stones harder and sharper than your teeth. The gizzards in most Aves species is much more efficient than the chewing action of any mammal. Fundamentally, flying Aves need more energy per gram of food in their digestive system than us humans, and the gizzard and highly efficient gastric juices (some are almost as efficient as that in crocodylians) is a tradeoff for the slower transit through the digestive system and more complicated and massive intestinal flora found in mammals with similar diets.

      Seeds that are dispersed mainly in animal droppings must adapt to the selection pressures in the co-adapting animals' digestive systems -- after all the animals would gain more benefit from digesting the seeds as food rather than hauling them around internally as nutrition-free excess mass.

      Many plants express alkaloids and other toxins in their fruits that will kill mammals in short order but are harmless to birds; the seeds tend to be small and tough. Other plants' fruits are harmful to avians but are just fine for most mammals; the seeds tend to be larger, softer, and the seed carapaces are an acid-fast oleagenous barriers (the fruits are often quite acidic too), and pass through stomachs and intestines just fine but are ill dressed to survive processing in a typical gizzard.

      Many plant toxins that would deter, incapacitate or even kill a human are found in the actual seeds, leaves, stems, roots and other parts of plants we eat regularly. However, humans cook (or otherwise treat) food and this totally inactivates these toxins. Olives and red kidney beans are good examples.

      Finally, humans have selectively bred varieties of food plants whose wildtype cultivars are mainly distasteful (sometimes highly so!). Try some wildtype rhubarb sometime. Yuk!

    205. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      Haha, old age. That means "can't outrun the cheetah any more"

      Not when significant numbers of old animals die without predator involvement, with IIRC is the case.
      As for "Prey exists to be eaten and predators exist to eat them", I agree with the sibling comment.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    206. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by aquila.solo · · Score: 1

      Most quotable bastard since Oscar Wilde. -- Benjamin Franklin

      Sorry; couldn't help myself.

    207. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Selective boycotting is also a good idea. But going vegetarian is also wise. Your stray man argument that we might suddenly all be vegetarians overnight is ridiculous. No one thinks that will happen. Some people going "totally" vegetarian IS a slow reform type of progress on a systemic level. (Can you Americans ever understand the world in terms that are broader than the individual self?)

      If your point is that the guilt trips for less-than-perfect vegetarians are a waste of time then I agree strongly. But I do appreciate a little shame now and then to reduce my overall bacon consumption which would if left unchecked, balloon.

    208. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      What’s your point?

      For that matter, try eating some domesticated rhubarb sometime. The only way to make it palatable is by adding a bunch of sugar.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    209. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm gonna start taking shits while running at full speed now

    210. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >the bloodiest, most brutal wars fought all based on religious hatred

      You haven't heard of Communism or "genocide", have you? More people have died from those two things than all the Crusades combined. Just look it up. Oh, but that wouldn't support your bias, so never mind.

    211. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [quote]I can only respond by saying that clearly we ALL know vi is the BEST text editor.[/quote]

      ED, ED, ED IS THE STANDARD!

      TEXT EDITOR.

    212. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      My sig has nothing to do with Race. Oh. Wait. By racist you do not actually mean racist. You mean 'I don't like you and wish to call you bad names.'

      Cool. I get it now.

      A "racist" is someone who "discriminates" by race. An "ageist" discriminates by age, A "colourist" is someone who discriminates by colour. A "bigot" is someone who holds that "something" is "better" than something else. Someone who doesn't "discriminate" will be found wandering the car park unable to locate the car they arrived in. Someone who is unable to discriminate between a "racist" and a "racial bigot" is a "moron".

      Oh course - I could be just semantically pedantic (you know what I mean). Certainly I concede that popular opinion disagrees with me.

    213. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      Call it xenophobia then. I was imprecise, I give you that.

      Is that the fear of leather clad NZ lesbians in television fantasies?

    214. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      Also, don't suffer from the delusion that the cows know what's going on.

      What have you been snorting?

      Let me put you in a yard with some cattle and a 12-pound sledgehammer, I'll sell tickets, while you test your theory. I "know" what happens - as opposed to "thinking" you "know" what will happen. Key difference being the difference between "thinking" and "believing".

      Hint: the first kill is relatively easy - the second kill will probably be you.

      We breed stock to be stupid and docile, but there are limits. Clearly your experience of where your meat comes from is limited to the supermarket - or you just don't understand much. Anyone who's worked an abattoir line "knows" you're mistaken.

      I expect you'll instinctively trot out an "instinct" argument.

    215. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      As for exacerbating the market by eating less meat forcing farmers to cut corners? Actually the stress put on farmers currently which forces them already to cut so many corners is supermarket domination forcing them to sell their product for the barest survivable profit.

      Thank you for pointing out that which is obvious to (us) farmers. The "eat more meat" campaign is the Meat Marketing Industry - they no more represent the farmer than the bloody "Dairy Board".

      And don't forget wool and hides when considering the farming of animals.

    216. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      Or be forced to live with broken legs, as millions of 60 day old chickens do, because they were bred so that they would put on weight faster than their bodies can cope (and producing eggs every day takes all the calcium out of their bodies).

      Crap - you're talking about battery hens fed bad food (waste from corn, cottonseed , meat, and fish) + antibiotics. The breed you're referring to (a la Peter loony Singer) is the Leghorn - which doesn't have that problem when allowed to free-range in a healthy environment.

      Australorps for instance will lay almost every day of the year - and free-ranging suffer from no calcium deficiency. They get the calcium they need from water, food, and eating rocks.

      I've reached an ethical decision, I'm a vegan, and have been for thirty years,

      Good for you. It's your choice. Whether or not it's healthier, or better for the economy, or the planet is not the same thing.

      .and I'm definitely on higher moral ground than fools like you.

      No. The higher moral ground is relative. As is a "fool". What you indisputably are is a "bigot". What I'd call you is a "fool" if you believe that you are doing the planet a favour with your aversion to animal products and a dietary choice that is unsustainable without health food stores and a massive transportation infrastructure.

      Perhaps I misunderstand you're "high moral ground" - humans who don't respect animals do so because they believe they are superior to other animals. And *you* are superior to those people because you hold that animals have rights? (do humans have rights?).

    217. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by rainmouse · · Score: 1

      Well done, you have bought into a PETA scare tactic. no logic, no science, but man, it sure helps you feel righteous, doesn't it?

      At which point did I mention Peta or cite them as a source?

      You do know that American beef has been banned by the European Economic Community since 1998. A ban that was contested by the USA but it was upheld after the ban was analysed and then supported by the World Trade Organisation.

      Perhaps if you could provide some sources to back up the alleged saftey of the unregulated use of growth hormones in beef and dairy products?

      Then there is the issues with milk from cows given bovine somatotropin, something which is banned in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and all European Union countries (currently numbering 27). You can eat and drink that shit all you want, but I'll happily have nothing to do with it.

      http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/general/hormones_meat.htm

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_somatotropin

    218. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by Burning1 · · Score: 1

      I'm vegetarian, and have been since birth. I feel that having some meat in the diet is beneficial for health, and have tried on several occasions to add fish to my diet. Despite that feeling, I've always been unsuccessful. Apparently, having spent 27 years eating a vegetarian diet tends to have an impact on your preferences... I just don't enjoy it enough to make it worth the cost and health benefits.

      * Technically, ovo-lacto vegetarian. I eat eggs and dairy products.

      Your experience trying to eat a vegetarian diet more or less reflects most of my experiences with meat. I simply lack the biological ability to properly digest meat, and red meats such as pork and beef tend to make me feel very sick. Even 'white' meats such as fish will cause feelings of gas and discomfort.

      As a vegetarian, I do appreciate that my lifestyle is environmentally healthy, and reduces cruelty. I wouldn't wish that the rest of the country stop eating meat, but I would prefer that meat consumption was somewhat reduced, and that the quality of the meat consumed improved. I don't personally have such an issue with animals being killed, but my preference is that their lives be somewhat pleasant up until that point.

    219. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by son_of_asdf · · Score: 1

      >>>Look, there is NO GOD, there is just nature.

      That's a very aggressive ontological argument. You're certain? Really? Totally, 100%, zero doubt?

      Isn't "there is no hard scientific evidence for the existence of an all-powerful creator" a more appropriate statement?

      Good scientists are always aware that there is a *possibility* that they haven't figured out everything. Absolute statements like "there is NO GOD" are the province of those who are deluded into thinking that they know everything.

      --
      Don't Panic!
    220. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      Not true. You see, we know exactly how god was invented. We have traced historically the entire story of just about every god on this earth, and we know with an incredible accuracy how each myth got started. We also understand, through psychology, why man needs to create a god.

      So, if the only proposition FOR the existence of a god comes from this stories, and we know for a fact that they are false, then any argument FOR the existence of a god, even the initial proposition, is rendered false.

      There is no god. And yes, we can be 100% sure of that.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    221. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by son_of_asdf · · Score: 1

      You haven't understood what I said. Read it again, please.

      Your reply is a mirror image of the sort of apologia we hear from Biblical literalists who endlessly claim that all the evidence is in, there is no doubt, the translations are perfect, of course there is a God and the Bible is a perfect transcription of his will.

      I think we can agree that this sort of fundamentalist literalism is wrongheaded - it presupposes perfect knowledge where there is in fact none. So too it is with the mirror-image, fundamentalist Atheism.

      I repeat, isn't "there is no hard scientific evidence for the existence of an all-powerful creator" a more appropriate statement?

      --
      Don't Panic!
    222. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      No, It's not a more appropriate statement, because there is actually enough hard evidence of the contrary.

      Religious types first said god created the earth. When science discovered that the earth is just a little rock traveling through the universe, religious idiots changed their speech to say that their imaginary friend also created the universe.

      It's fucking stupid, and it doesn't even deserve to be treated with respect.

      Religion is mental illness, and if you are going to try and disprove with science every hallucination, you might want to start with those voices in many people's heads.

      god is not within the subject matter of physics, or chemistry, or philosophy. god is something that Neurology and Psychology will have to deal with.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    223. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by agentbuzz · · Score: 1

      Ok, either you are a very successful troll, or a very stupid person. I really can't tell ... and I'm good at this.

      Anyway, if you are a troll, congratulations, you've done an amazing job today. puddi, puddi, puddi.

      Now, if you aren't ... What the hell are you talking about? Giving cows a chance? Are you fucking stupid?

      Look, there is NO GOD, there is just nature. And by the mere fact that we are here, I can tell you for sure 2 things: There's been some fucking and some eating going on here for a LONG TIME. That's something that I never understood. That's an animals life: You are born, you grow and survive as long as you can, try to reproduce, and then die. Most of the time, you get eaten. It's very rare to see in nature animals that die of old age. It just doesn't happen that much outside of humans and human's pets. Long before any animal can die of old age, it becomes older and slower, and gets eaten. Why is it wrong or unnatural for us to just do the same? Do you have any idea of how many animals have lived and died since life evolved on earth?

      But nobody said it better than old good George. I was going to redact this piece a little, but I can't do that to this awesome piece, so here it is, in whole:

      "'My God has a bigger dick than your God!' That's how it is, isn't it? Thousands of years, and all the best wars too, the bloodiest, most brutal wars fought all based on religious hatred, which is fine with me. Anytime a bunch of holy people want to kill each other, I'm a happy guy. But don't be giving me all this shit about the sanctity of life. I mean, even if there were such a thing, I don't think it's something you can blame on God. No, you know where the sanctity of life came from? We made it up! You know why? Cause we're alive! Self-interest. Living people have a strong interest in promoting the idea that somehow life is sacred. You don't see Abbott and Costello running around, talking about this shit, do you? We're not hearing a whole lot from Mussolini on the subject. What's the latest from JFK? Not a god damned thing, cause JFK, Mussolini, and Abbott and Costello are fucking dead. They're fucking dead, and dead people give less than a shit about the sanctity of life. Only living people care about it, so the whole thing grows out of a completely biased point of view. It's a self-serving, man-made bullshit story. It's one of these things we tell ourselves so we'll feel noble. Life is sacred, makes you feel noble.

      Well let me ask you this, if everything that ever lived is dead, and everything alive is going to die, where does the sacred part come in? I'm having trouble with that. Because even with the stuff we preach about the sanctity of life, we don't practice it. Look at what we kill. Mosquitos and flies, because they're pests! Lions and tigers, because it's fun! Chickens and pigs, because we're hungry. Pheasants and quail, because it's fun, and we're hungry. And people! We kill people, because they're pests... and it's fun!

      And you might have noticed something else, the sanctity of life doesn't seem to apply to cancer cells, does it? You never see a bumpersticker that says 'save the tumors' or 'I brake for advanced melanoma.' No, viruses, mold, mildew, maggots, fungus, weeds, e. coli bacteria, the crabs, nothing sacred about those things. So at best, the sanctity of life is kind of a selective thing. We get to choose which forms of life we feel are sacred, and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal, huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole fucking thing up! Made it up, the same way we made up the death penalty. We made them both up, the sanctity of life and the death penalty. Aren't we versatile?".

      Learn something from that magnificent old fuck. Eat a stake tonight, stop trying so hard to be holier than thou.

      Why call living things "sacred"? How about because it took 4 billion years to develop, and is probably very rare in the universe?

    224. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      "Half a billion" is not "Billions." "Billions" implies plural. If I cut you in half and threw your legs out the window, I wouldn't have "people" left, I'd have "Half a person."

      I don't need a study. I stop eating meat, I start dying. All of your "facts" and "science" work about as well as voo-doo magic and chiropractic cancer cures: I can stand here and keep "believing" while my body rots away, and then I'll die; or I can tell you to shut the fuck up. I didn't claim that not eating meat causes horrible immunodeficiency and scurvy and eventual dermal necrosis; I claimed that if I don't get meat in my diet, that shit happens to ME. I have found a simple solution to that problem.

    225. Re:Or they flew over a CAFO by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I'd prefer better farms, no CAFOs, and heavier sledgehammers to bash cows' heads in with (they have hard skulls) or some method of quick decapitation (better to drain the blood that way). Maybe halal beef?

      People who don't eat meat have trouble digesting meat en masse. It's an adaptation mechanism. People who try to switch off meat into veganism suddenly find out that they can't get the nutrients they want, or find out that their body is very bad at working it out of the vegetables. All anybody cares about is protein (hence beans beans beans), but there are other nutrients that need attention.

      Most of us aren't entirely sure what voodoo goes into food; in fact I've always been told that meat has zero vitamins and minerals, and is wholly composed of fat and protein. I think meat might have like... vitamin B or something... who knows. We're always told that vegetables have vitamins and meat has nothing; but nobody can grasp that your digestive system has to do things with things to get nutrients. Eating kiwis for example increases your ability to digest meat (raw kiwi contains an enzyme that breaks down meat), did you know that?

      Is it any surprise people read a book, put together salads and bean soups to get "all the proteins I need," then find out their body simply doesn't work like that? It won't liberate the nutrients from plants. A slow transition might work better; even better might be reducing the amount of meat you consume, but not eliminating it. Who knows?

      To me, diets are in general stupid. Atkins, veganism, whatever. I don't eat vegetables because they often make me sick (eating a cooked green pepper makes my tummy feel funny...raw is okay) and I just don't like 'em; but I'll eat all that stuff on a burger or a fajita or tacos. My diet doesn't subsist entirely on chicken and steak, although I consider my vegetable intake "low." The closest thing I'll do to a diet is adjust variety, and that has the beneficial side effect of improving my enjoyment of food (more ingredients, more balance, more diverse flavors); if I need to "get more of something" in my diet, I'll do that. Tweaking, not "following a diet plan."

  4. fools by eyenot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hail, lightning, fireworks would have caused said unfound trauma.

    Theory: caught in a hellacious wild updraft. Lifted into highest levels of the atmosphere where they suffered insufficient oxygen and/or insufficient pressure -- vessels and or lungs burst.

    --
    "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
    1. Re:fools by Nikker · · Score: 4, Informative

      Doubt that, turns out the same day 100,000 Drum Fish died the same day. Only Drum fish not any of the other fish that are in the same waters. Unless of course the tornado selectively took only black birds and only drum fish up into the air....

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    2. Re:fools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not entirely out of the ordinary. I know of fish in Minnesota that do not fare well with sudden changes in atmospheric pressure. After a strong weather front moves through, adult 'suckers' will start to wash ashore. Not in the numbers seen in AK, but a tornado bearing storm would have significantly larger pressure shift than a typical storm.

    3. Re:fools by yeshuawatso · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I live close to the area where the Drum Fish were found (Fort Smith) and these two events seem to be rare coincidences and nothing more. Weather definitely isn't on the list as the recent tornado, also relatively close by by car, occurred a half a week ago. Unless the tornado (which occurred no where near the Arkansas river) swept up some diseased Drum fish, threw them in the river 50 40 miles away, which spread the disease to the other fish, that the birds ate and died of food poisoning while in mid-flight, weather is not likely to be the cause. We're in a cold front now with no real warm air around, and we normally don't see snow until February, so lightning, hail and other precipitation can be ruled out too.

      This past week has just been wonky for Arkansas. Our weather is on the fritz and can't decide to be warm or cold yet. We've got a crap load of dead fish along an already smelly river bank that other states dump in, and now the left over dead birds from Angry Birds are being dumped here too. What sucks about the whole thing is that media outlets, with nothing better to do but create conspiracy theories, will be broadcasting the most redneck, hick, uneducated person they can find to provide a take as to what they "think" is happening to represent the entire state and populous, instead of sticking to scientific conclusions.

    4. Re:fools by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      I would also point out to support your theory we had an unseasonably warm period followed by a rapid cold snap with a large drop in pressure and there were several quick flash storms with heavy lightning close to the area where the birds annually nest, and the path of the storms would have taken it right over where they found the drum. Also as is tradition several large fireworks were shot off for New years. Talking to someone from the area this afternoon they figured the fireworks scared the birds who took off and then either the flock got hit by hail or lightning, as they were pretty beat up.

      So this isn't HAARP or some other conspiracy theory, just some birds and fish getting caught in the wrong conditions at the wrong time. And as for the thousands my source said it looked closer to 900-1800 and this is in an area where several thousand of these birds nest at this time of year. So it wasn't even the entire flock but everyone is playing it safe and have sent a couple hundred of the carcasses for analysis anyway. It must be a slow news day here at /. because the local news spent maybe 60 seconds on it in a "BTW ain't this weird?" kind of manner.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    5. Re:fools by Nikker · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying it is some sort of conspiracy theory but you haven't seem to offer anything real to the conversation rather than conjecture and made a conclusion based on that, dig around a bit and post some links I'll be interested to see what you find!

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    6. Re:fools by Brianech · · Score: 1
      I first read this article on The Canadian Press and they quoted Commission ornithologist Karen Rowe and she said there were signs of trauma.

      Commission ornithologist Karen Rowe said the birds showed physical trauma, and she speculated that "the flock could have been hit by lightning or high-altitude hail."

      As this story is just unfolding there are several inconsistencies between articles. Some say its only blackbirds, while the article quoted in the summary says there were multiple species of birds involved, but the majority were blackbirds. I think once the birds are sent off for further testing (as the article states Monday) we'll get a more accurate picture of exactly what shape the birds were in, and maybe a single theory of what happened. If it turns out this article is correct and there was no trauma I think your theory could be accurate.

    7. Re:fools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just in time for 2012:
      They will have learned to breed together and we will have the dreaded black drum birdfish as foretold in the bible - hail Jesus.

    8. Re:fools by thedonger · · Score: 1

      The New Year's fireworks theory only holds if they were celebrating on east coast time.

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    9. Re:fools by __aavqan3009 · · Score: 1

      Racist tornados? That`s a stretch.

    10. Re:fools by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      How would that work if air pressure is the only thing that can push them anywhere in such updraft? Either moving air will not be dense enough to push birds upward, or there will be enough pressure for them to breathe.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    11. Re:fools by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Every so often a parachuter or similar gets caught in some wicked updraft which shoves them up and then, as such things do at the top, sideways a bit, out of the updraft. Such an event can transport you from a typical jump altitude to 30,000 feet in about 3 minutes. Here is another updraft account.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:fools by axlrosen · · Score: 1

      Doubt that, turns out the same day 100,000 Drum Fish died the same day.

      Um... not the same day. The day before. And: "Biologists believe the bird deaths were stress-related from either fireworks or weather and are unrelated to the fish kill near Ozark, Stephens said."

    13. Re:fools by ouija147 · · Score: 1

      AK = Alaska
      AR = Arkansas

    14. Re:fools by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Apparently you've never been to AR, have you? Any excuse for firing off fireworks is a good one here, and the party will usually start at dark and continue until the wee hours. Usually they'll start with the small stuff and then work their way up, so by the time we are talking they should have worked up to some of the louder whistling cluster bees and color showers.

      So you can't really go by the time when it comes to fireworks in AR. We like them too much to stick to any silly schedule. Hell you ought to come around here the week of the fourth, we have many that buy truly insane amounts of rockets and will fire them off the entire week of the fourth. Here one doesn't expect peace and quiet the week of the fourth until after midnight, and with New Years it starts at dark and finally fizzles out around 1AM.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    15. Re:fools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, so you're saying is you've got a river that a bunch of people dump dead animals (and who knows what else) into and suddenly massive amounts of other animals die "for no apparent reason"? I've seen connect the dot pictures in children's books that are more difficult to figure out.

    16. Re:fools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And as for the thousands my source said it looked closer to 900-1800 and this is in an area where several thousand of these birds nest at this time of year.

      900 ~ 1800 ..

      not 1 to 2 thousand ??

      So it could be less then a thousand .. but not 2 ...

      why would the phrase " it was thousands of birds" be wrong ??

    17. Re:fools by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Parachute, as opposed to birds' wings, can work in relatively low air pressure due to its enormous (relative to the weight) area.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    18. Re:fools by geekoid · · Score: 1

      those are too separate issues. Both these types of events are known to happen, it's a coincidence that these happened at the same time.

      That particular type of bird is susceptible to literally being startled to death. You can shoot a shotgun in the air, have a bunch take flight and then find them dead some distance away*.

      The fish is unknown. Probably a virus. That particular body of water has compartments, and it was only the fish i one of the compartments that dies.

      The sections aren't called compartment, but I am spacing on the name.

      Anyways, there is no reason to believe these events are related.

      *no, not from being shot, from the noise.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    19. Re:fools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What sucks about the whole thing is that media outlets, with nothing better to do but create conspiracy theories, will be broadcasting the most redneck, hick, uneducated person"
      I take exception to that remark, as i am a hillbilly or a redneck, just cause you were raised in the country does not make a person uneducated illiterate or ignorant. Personally i hold 2 degree's and plan on studying physics and astronomy when i get out of the army.
      Keep your socially biased opinions to yourself.

      Other than that I would have to agree with you that until more evidence is gathered, we would have to chalk it up to bad coincidence and/or over pollution of the rivers, for the fish, I have no idea what to think about several thousand blackbirds falling from the heavens.

  5. Nearby, massive fish kill by Hangin10 · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by NiceGeek · · Score: 1

      Gee, and they're saying no relation between the incidents. Hm.

    2. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And unrelated to the mysterious death of a game and fisheries warden in November. Nothing to see move along.

    3. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems obvious to me.

      The fish, sick of living under bird oppression, poisoned themselves in a mass suicide so that when the birds ate them they would all die as well...

    4. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bubbas all stocked up with fish and fowl till the summer comes.

    5. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      All at the tail end of the New Madrid fault line, which has received massive amounts of small quakes over the last couple of months.

      Personally, I would say one of these things is not a big deal. Two of them is a coincident. All 3 occurring together, is VERY interesting.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    6. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly, global warming is to blame...or file sharing...or Assange *duck*

    7. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      It seems obvious to me.

      The fish, sick of living under bird oppression, poisoned themselves in a mass suicide so that when the birds ate them they would all die as well...

      Don't breathe the kool-aid!

    8. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh, that's just great. Pisci-terrorism. I hear a new court-circumventing law marching toward us. Won't somebody think of the minnows?

    9. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      So what, earthquake lights zapped the birds' magnet sensors and made them think "south" was "down" (or up)?

    10. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Icterids don't each fish.

    11. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All at the tail end of the New Madrid fault line, which has received massive amounts of small quakes over the last couple of months.

      Personally, I would say one of these things is not a big deal. Two of them is a coincident. All 3 occurring together, is VERY interesting.

      *waves hands furiously* Blah blah blah, here, let me tell you the TRUTH the liberal media wants to cover up. See, our researchers discovered that a few years ago, there was a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT ACTIVIST LIBERAL politician in Arkansas that wanted to bring the EVIL SOCIALISM of wind power to the state. So CLEARLY, that's what did it. The wind power generators, which as we all know is a giant liberal plot to kill birds (they kill birds, dontchaknow, our research says so!), which will obviously make our fnord American values fnord drop from the sky, too fnord fnord.

      EVERYTHING ELSE YOU MENTIONED IS COINCIDENCE. Or more liberal plots. We haven't decided yet.

    12. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by johnhp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Also, in the same area, is the town that's had like 500 earthquakes in the past six months or something. A lot of people think that the hydraulic fracturing method of gas drilling caused the earthquakes. Maybe it also caused some gasses to vent. Not to mention the New Madrid Fault is in the area where they're doing that shit... they're probably going to kill me.

    13. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Gases get released. Think canary in a coal mine. Some animals, esp. birds., are more susceptible to gases. And even within species they will have varying degrees of susceptibilities.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    14. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It probably did cause the earthquakes, after it went badly awry in France they cancelled the identical (but in even worse conditions) drilling they were going to do here in Lake County at The Geysers.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      I've not seen any major drilling in the eastern part of AR, but lots of it is going on in central AR.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    16. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of people think that the hydraulic fracturing method of gas drilling caused the earthquakes.

      I heard a couple of days ago that blackbirds and some fish were planning a protest against the using of hydraulic fracturing drilling method, but I've never expected them to go this far.

    17. Re:Nearby, massive fish kill by cbdougla · · Score: 1

      Your post about gas made me think about exploding lakes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption)

      Perhaps the fish were killed by some kind of exploding lake and the gas rose and was trapped by the weather and killed the birds.

  6. Flashforward? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Are the events from the show Flashforward coming true?!

    1. Re:Flashforward? by MakinBacon · · Score: 2

      No, because the crows (not blackbirds) are supposed to die during the flash forward, which never happened.

    2. Re:Flashforward? by witherstaff · · Score: 4, Funny

      Too bad it was canceled, we'll just never know! Either that or this is the strangest grassroots effort to renew a show I've heard about.

    3. Re:Flashforward? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Except that during the series they found there had been earlier tests that had killed just the birds, before the global flash forward. Not that I'd try applying logic to that series, the time flash is one thing but basic things like a any form of wave that acts exactly the same at ground zero as it does halfway around the earth? The science was at a Doctor Who level, just with less comedy and more thriller.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Flashforward? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      The science was at a Doctor Who level, just with less comedy and more thriller.

      And, the series learned from the best dictators and liars: always put a kernel of truth into your fiction. These mass bird deaths happen on this planet; so work it into the series, and then the next time it happens, "hey we should resurrect the series!"

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    5. Re:Flashforward? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was a localized flashforward the first time, only a few people experienced it. This happened near a small town in Arkansas. Maybe the locals there are just keeping quiet...

  7. Under the Dome by SheeEttin · · Score: 1

    In a fashion worthy of a King or Hitchcock novel, blackbirds began to fall from the sky dead

    Ooh! Ooh! I read that one! It's Stephen King's Under the Dome .
    (Quick summary: Some kind of force field is dropped over the town of Chester's Mill, Maine. Lord of the Flies-type microcosm ensues. Good book, I recommend it.)

    1. Re:Under the Dome by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      Good book, I recommend it.

      Good premise, though far from original. Horrible book. I don't recommend it. WAY too big, too. YMMV.

  8. Dammnnnn! by Jagjr · · Score: 0

    Damn man.. Flash-forward coming true..

  9. Quarantine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I say we quarantine all the residents of Arkansas, just to be safe. And ready the nukes also.

  10. What the TSA is REALLY up to... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    People, did anyone think to look up in the sky? Contrails, people? Contrails?

    It's only after the fact that folks recall strange looking jets and black helicopters.

    New World Order, folks, the TSA is just the start.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:What the TSA is REALLY up to... by eyenot · · Score: 1

      I never know what to think when people spew on about contrails. There's plausibility to be upheld behind such claims, you know. It's as irresponsible to blame contrails and "the gubmint" as it is to blame poor Satan and the meek who aid his truth for women having warts giving puritan men the heebejeebes, or for the murderously pyromaniacal urges those men developed as a result of not being tucked in right and getting buggered off by their mommas when they were still eating frosted flakes. I'm just saying that besides all that, you apparently stand proud and, uh, "represent".

      --
      "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
    2. Re:What the TSA is REALLY up to... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, I think I've seen that movie. Falling birds, everything. We'll find out about the technical details later.

      --
      Qxe4
    3. Re:What the TSA is REALLY up to... by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      I never know what to think when people spew on about contrails.

      Is it just some cosmic coincidence that when the U.S. didn't have any contrails nine years ago, people across the world were gripped with strong emotion, either cheering or sad? Contrails are psychic pacifiers, man. When the settings sun hits them and makes them all orange and pink against a blue backdrop, it messes with your junk, makes you less manly. Ray-bans nullify the effect due to polarized crystal prism power in the lenses.

  11. Crazies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow... the crazies are out tonight.

    1. Re:Crazies by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 1

      I can't agree with you more. Everybody can see this was caused by Flying Under the Influence, which kills more drunken birds than Dick Cheney with a shotgun. Yes, I say FUI. Their flying licenses ought to be suspended.

    2. Re:Crazies by __aatirs3925 · · Score: 0

      This topic should be relocated to paranormal (new category?) or at the very least, ALT and not science since there's no science relating to the article. IMO it should be moved to idle haha

  12. I'm guessing hypothermia by ridgecritter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    through being trapped in storm-associated updrafts. These can rapidly reach high altitudes and cold temperatures (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/594363/thunderstorm/49573/Updrafts-and-downdrafts).

    1. Re:I'm guessing hypothermia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about all the fish that died nearby?

      I'm guessing there was some sort of gas release from under the water, killing the fish then drifting and the birds flew through it.

      Apparently they do hydraulic fracking in that area as well which can be pretty destructive to the environment.

    2. Re:I'm guessing hypothermia by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      That's my guess as well; when two tornados hit my town in 2006, there were dead birds everywhere (mostly starlings).

  13. Re:Or the same thing that causes these: by Solid+StaTe_1 · · Score: 0

    did you forget your tinfoil hat this morning?

    --
    Build a man a fire and you warm him for a day. Set a man on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life.
  14. Comment from the article... ? by el_tedward · · Score: 1

    Yeah, so.. does this make sense? I'm not a tornado kind of guy..

    "Given the reports of tornadoes and lack of physical evidence of trauma, the most likely scenario is that the birds were asphyxiated inside the low pressure area within a very small tight tornado vortex. Because of the high energy (and thus oxygen consumption) during flight, a flying bird can aspyhixiate in a much shorter time and at much higher pressures than would be required to kill a resting human being."

    1. Re:Comment from the article... ? by eyenot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My friend descended from a Siberian tribe. His grandmother died in Siberia because she happened to go out wearing just two or three layers less than you "should". See, it's cold enough over there in my friend's ancestral village that the windows are plastic. Glass would shatter. And despite this, sometimes you want convenience. Like if you're American and you want to get milk, you're tempted to use the SUV to drive two blocks away and save five minutes of walking. Well, she saved five minutes changing out of two or three layers of clothing and suffered from it, due to a tragic weather event. OVer there, the Siberians get these tiny tornadoes that only last a few seconds. They're invisible. But inside of them, the temperature isn't just eighteen below zero, it's like thirty-eight below zero. And the wind is reintroducing that temperature of air at a rate of sometimes around a hundred miles an hour, but confined in a very tight vortex of only three or four feet across due to the nature of convecting currents and their abilities to maintain micro systems, something not very well understood. Being in that tiny cold whirlwind for even a few seconds can cause really horrible physical traumas. She was struck dead by hypothermia by an invisible weather phenomenon, struck dead by a tornado as big around as her sucking down temperatures from the upper atmosphere that were cold enough to lower her core temperature down below dead in only seconds. This sort of thing is a reality, and we can assume that there is plenty under the sun that science doesn't quite comprehend. If this doesn't turn out to be a low-pressure or mega-updraft incident of some kind, then I think we can all safely assume it is a pathogenic or local effect. A bacteria or virus. A radioactive or electromagnetic pulse. At any rate it's anomalous and anybody studying it with interest is probably more intelligent than the average scientists who, based largely on risk assessed values of research grant award futures versus college loan payment rates, side squarely with what is pre-established and therefore never learn anything new and fail to ever address the slightest anomaly whether it challenges their worldview or not.

      --
      "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
    2. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_in_a_coal_mine

      I'd guess as much.

    3. Re:Comment from the article... ? by NoSig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Quantum mechanics is proof beyond any reasonable criterion that science can be brought around to a good idea no matter how weird it is. It just takes time and evidence, and so it should be.

    4. Re:Comment from the article... ? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      Why would someone ever *choose* to live in such an environment? *shivers*

    5. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It can't be a pathogen - there's no way that it would kill such a large amount of birds at exactly the same time. Instead it would have acted over hours/days following a normal distribution, and the area of dead birds would be far greater and not fairly evenly spread over a narrow area.

      While my medical degree makes me an expert in humans, not birds, it's reasonable to assume that this bird population is suffering due to 1) the bird overpopulation mentioned by local residents in the news reports and 2) the colder than normal weather. I cannot speculate as to the cause other than ruling out silly things (pathogens, aliens, etc), but I think the birds were on the limit of survival, and some localized event happened that pushed a small group in a certain area a little too hard, causing them to die suddenly.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    6. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know. Think about how high you could OC your computer! From your mother's igloo basement no less!

    7. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you and I sure picked our parents well, didn't we?

    8. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Galactic+Dominator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not saying you're wrong, but a link or some further evidence of micro-tornadoes would surely be in order.

      I imagine someone coming across the frozen tundra and the corpse on it could easily reach a similar conclusion, even though the person may have died from some type of sudden onset failure like a brain aneurysm. Having been in northern climates, I'm having a bit of trouble swallowing these invisible micro tornadoes because much of the surface is covered with loose material like powder snow, dust, and exposed dry, decayed vegetation.

      --
      brandelf -t FreeBSD /brain
    9. Re:Comment from the article... ? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Being localized to a particular breed of bird already rules out an updraft, but thanks for the generalization that 300 million people drive SUV's.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    10. Re:Comment from the article... ? by CrashandDie · · Score: 1

      He was simply inspired by The Day After Tomorrow.

    11. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Lorens · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why would someone ever *choose* to live in such an environment? *shivers*

      Nobody said it was a choice. In most of the world, you live and die where you were born.

    12. Re:Comment from the article... ? by chichilalescu · · Score: 1

      "sucking down temperatures"

      funny, thank you.

      --
      new sig
    13. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "isn't just eighteen below zero, it's like thirty-eight below zero"

      Wow, that's cold. That's almost as cold as the -63 (Fahrenheit, I believe) I experienced in Fairbanks, Alaska when I went to college there. And, you know, I was young and stupid enough to walk outside for about a minute or two at that temperature in shorts and a sweatshirt. And I'm not dead.

      It's gonna take more than seconds at -38 to kill somebody.

    14. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A few seconds without enough clothes in -38 is lethal? I find that hard to believe. Especially since there are people rolling in snow in -73 C naked. Sure, if you're there long enough you'll die.

    15. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Confusador · · Score: 3, Interesting

      True. What blows my mind is that once upon a time, some adventurous soul left their home to make a better life and found it in Siberia. I can only imagine they were fleeing a war.

    16. Re:Comment from the article... ? by puhuri · · Score: 5, Interesting

      GP sounds like a nice troll. Unless you replace air with 1000-fold more dense material it is impossible to cool a person to hypothermia in few seconds, no matter what is temperature and wind speed are. A human can spend comfortably tens of minutes at temperatures well below 200K even naked (or swimsuit) and this is used to heal pains in rheumatoid arthritis. And as one who lives in north, I can imagine the amount of snow taken air with wind over 30 m/s. Invisible in your dreams.

    17. Re:Comment from the article... ? by w0mprat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I experienced something like this on a glacier, a kind of 'dust devil' hit our party, except it wasn't invisible as you say, there was enough fresh powder around to make it clear and we had nowhere to go. It got VERY cold fast and the winds may have been 100kph briefly as well as white-out conditions. I don't know if the wind chill alone made it so cold, but as most of the group had most of our cold weather gear off despite just below freezing temperatures (reflective snow/ice in bright sunlight makes you actually kind hot).. we came pretty damn close to having a serious problem. I would assume that like katabatic winds, such a anti-tornado forming over ice would be powered by descending cold dry air, not ascending warm moist air, and would prefer clearer drier conditions to storm conditions.

      This would explain the temperature drop and I imagine anyone or any animal exposed could be in a life threatening situation. I did read that there were tornadoes in the Beebe, Arkansas area on new years eve and this was the leading theory? The blackbirds just got hypothermia, nicely fitting the lack of obvious trauma.

      If blackbirds in my part of the world are anything to go by, they don't flock much, at least not in large numbers like other birds. So several thousand blackbirds falling out of the sky in the same area is just strange to me, but blackbirds elsewhere could behave differently?

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    18. Re:Comment from the article... ? by khallow · · Score: 1

      His grandmother died in Siberia because she happened to go out wearing just two or three layers less than you "should".

      Or she died of something else and they blamed it on the weather. Weather isn't some magical being that strikes you down for not doing the right magical rituals.

      At any rate it's anomalous and anybody studying it with interest is probably more intelligent than the average scientists who, based largely on risk assessed values of research grant award futures versus college loan payment rates, side squarely with what is pre-established and therefore never learn anything new and fail to ever address the slightest anomaly whether it challenges their worldview or not.

      You need an anomaly first before you can go with this old story. A person dying is not in itself an anomaly.

    19. Re:Comment from the article... ? by mobby_6kl · · Score: 1

      In other words, it was an act of nature, and we'll never fully understand it?

    20. Re:Comment from the article... ? by marcosdumay · · Score: 2

      Mocro-tornadoes are quite real, and relatively common where I live. But, of course, there being dust and sometimes clouds, they are normaly visible. The wind within them comes from slightly hight places, so it is colder than surface (here it means you can get 20C air while the external temperature is near 30C - how the hell can I make the degree symbol appear on a /. post?). I can imagine them being invisible in a cold and dry environment, becoming visible just after they touch the soil.

      That said, there is another answer here about the likehood of dry air killing somebody in seconds. I'd add that it is quite hard to belive in invisible tornadoes whithin wet air, as it would at least condensate a lot of water.

    21. Re:Comment from the article... ? by O.W.M · · Score: 1

      Why would someone ever *choose* to live in such an environment? *shivers*

      In Soviet Siberia, the environment chooses *you*...

    22. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pssh... This kind of sounds horrible, but since it's Russia, the grandmother probably just passed out due to excessive amounts of Vodka. The tornado story was told to the kids to a) make them feel better and/or b) dress better...

    23. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wednesday?

    24. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Travco · · Score: 1

      I don't know about Siberian micro-tornadoes but, I have seen a Michigan version. NOT a dust devil. This was a warm summer day, I was bicycling down a country road and heard an unusual sound - sort of a rushing/sucking sound. The location was sharply defined as I rode by so I turned around and rode back to the loudest point and stopped. I couldn't see anything when I first stopped, but as I stood there the "tornado" crossed a patch of dirt and became vizable due to the dust it sucked up. I was no more than ten feet from it and felt no unusual breeze but it was forming a very nice column as high as I could see about 12 - 18 inches across. The MOST unusual thing I've ever seen.

    25. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lewis Black - The Settling of MInnesota - http://ilike.myspacecdn.com/play#Lewis+Black:The+Settling+of+Minnesota:75386:s30695996.8769698.14449133.0.2.136%2Cstd_d136764dcc464cdbae4831b256646dd8

    26. Re:Comment from the article... ? by rxmd · · Score: 1

      My friend descended from a Siberian tribe. His grandmother died in Siberia because she happened to go out wearing just two or three layers less than you "should". See, it's cold enough over there in my friend's ancestral village that the windows are plastic. Glass would shatter.

      I think your friend never lived in his "ancestral Siberian village" or is making a joke at your expense. I've been to Siberia, and I work in Central Asia. We regularly get -40 C in the winter and +40 in the summer. Glass doesn't shatter from cold temperatures, it shatters from rapid changes in temperature gradients. You don't get that from the weather. Glass does just fine in the cold. Ask your friend whether in his ancestral Siberia they use special trucks, train cars and helicopters with all-plastic windshields. Hint: they don't.

      People do use plastic on their windows, but they don't replace windowpanes with it. They just tape an extra layer of plastic foil on the existing glass window, the idea being that it creates an air pocket which provides extra thermal insulation. Throughout the winter, a roll of Scotch tape is one of the more important household implements to have around.

      I've never heard of Siberian microtornadoes either all the time I spent in the region. You can freeze to death in the cold. At -40 or so it happens quite easily but it doesn't take a microtornado to do it. You can also be assured that people in Siberia have had a practical enough attitude towards the weather for a few hundred years that if people actually died from microtornadoes, as opposed to plain old hypothermia, "research grant award futures versus college loan payment rates" (assuming such a thing even made sense in the Soviet or post-Soviet Russian system) would be of little concern.

      --
      As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
    27. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a nice pile of BullShit you've got there. Or maybe you thought The Day After Tomorrow was a documentary.

      Seriously man, there's no such thing as a tornado of any size which "Pulls air down from the upper atmosphere". And especially not one only as big around as a human. A vortex that small, with enough force to pull something down from the upper atmosphere would literally rip your body to shreds in the blink of an eye; you wouldn't have a chance to freeze to death and people would find bits and pieces of you all over the place. You'd also be able to hear it coming from miles away, and it would be throwing around so much snow and dirt and other debris it certainly wouldn't be "invisible".

      Really, I live south of Canada and I've seen the temp drop 40 degrees (F) in less than an hour, and people I know in northern Alaska say it happens there as well. It's more than likely there was just a sudden temperature drop, there's no need to invent convuluted and never-documented weather phenomena which defy all historic observations and logic predicitions. I'm not saying it can't ever happen, but considering there is NO record of such events in either the Inuit histories, or the histories of the Siberian peoples, it's pretty safe to assume somebody was filling your head with pure horse crap.

      If this doesn't turn out to be a low-pressure or mega-updraft incident of some kind, then I think we can all safely assume it is a pathogenic or local effect. A bacteria or virus. A radioactive or electromagnetic pulse. At any rate it's anomalous and anybody studying it with interest is probably more intelligent than the average scientists who, based largely on risk assessed values of research grant award futures versus college loan payment rates, side squarely with what is pre-established and therefore never learn anything new and fail to ever address the slightest anomaly whether it challenges their worldview or not.

      Or considering the fact that there's been a lot of seismic activity in the area lately, associated with Frakking, it's a lot more likely that there was a pocket of trapped gas which released and killed a flock of birds passing overhead. There's a good reason why miners used to use Canaries... birds are highly susceptible to natural gas and will die before humans even start to feel ill.

    28. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      WTF are you talking about?

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    29. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was -38C where I live yesterday, without the windchill....
      (I know the windchill doesn't make it colder but it sure does sound fancy)

      Our windows are made of glass, the windows of the people who live further north than us are made of glass. No where is it cold enough that windows have to be made of plastic, that doesn't even make sense. The only reason glass would shatter from temperature swings would be from large and violent temperature swings. Like say warmng up your engine in your truck when its -30 out and once its warm cranking the defrost on full blast heating the window quickly. That will crack a window. Its because of the uneven rate of expansion.

      That one screw up calls into question the validity of your entire comment. I call bullshit.

      Come visit sunny Northern Alberta!

      Its better than Nunavik

    30. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "you live and die where you were born"
       
      That too is a choice. At the very least, people have feet. Humans have been migrating and traveling the earth for thousands of years.

    31. Re:Comment from the article... ? by ballpoint · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Let me blow your mind some more. I visited Siberia when the iron curtain was still drawn down. Common people living in Siberia (Irkutsk, Bratsk) were much happier and enjoyed more amenities such as good food and leisure activities than moskovites. If anything, Irkutsk almost felt like a Swiss village. I understand things have changed for the worse since then.

      --
      Flourescent (adj): smelling like ground wheat.
    32. Re:Comment from the article... ? by holmstar · · Score: 1

      Well, I know that crows do tend to flock, at least at certain times of day in the winter time. Yea, I know that crows are not blackbirds, but blackbirds might be similar in behavior.

    33. Re:Comment from the article... ? by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Exactly.
      If I lived and died where I was born, it'd be from depression from lack of work and caustic weather.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    34. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know. it does sound improbable. But I also once lived someplace where it was so cold that you could toss a bucked of warm water out the door and it would be frozen before gravity flattened out the puddle.

    35. Re:Comment from the article... ? by arkane1234 · · Score: 2

      You cannot stand in -99 to -100 degree Fahrenheit comfortably for tens of minutes.
      I can see it being possible, but not comfortably. Frostbite can happen within minutes.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    36. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Famine, probably. There are some tasty fatty animals up there, you just have to be tough enough.

    37. Re:Comment from the article... ? by LiENUS · · Score: 1

      Hey! I saw that movie

    38. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure. You might be able to survive those temperatures--with no air movement. You lose heat via evaporation and convection in such a scenario. Throw in a little wind at a much more tropical -30 F/C and you won't fare so well.

    39. Re:Comment from the article... ? by chuchmo · · Score: 1

      I'm calling bullshit on some of your claims.

      I live in Winnipeg, one of the places in the world with the highest temperature variability. Temperatures range from +35C (about 100F) in summer to -40 (C or F) at times in winter. If anyone had problems with glass shattering due to weather, it would be me. Glass doesn't spontaneously shatter at -40. Cement may not last long due to moisture freezing and thawing, sure, but glass is fine. Eventually, it may crack, but it won't shatter unless struck. I've had the same glass windows in my home for 20+ years. You are quite simply wrong.

      Being in -40 weather, even at high winds, doesn't kill instantaneously. You would have seen thousands of deaths several years ago in the winter of 2003/2004 when it was below -40 with a windchill of -55C (-68 F). Yet, you didn't. No spontaneous window shattering, either. 'Struck dead' is hardly appropriate. I believe you have been misled, or are intentionally misleading.

      This phenomenon you describe could not be invisible, as you claim. If there is a large gust or vortex of wind, it would pick up material. Most notably, snow.

      I challenge you to back up your claims.

    40. Re:Comment from the article... ? by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Which is great when you have the luxury to study the phenomenon, but not terribly practical.

      Let me give an example:
      You are out in the woods with a group of friends and encounter an animal you've never seen or heard about before. It is showing a set of sharp teeth in its mouth to you. Do you A) back away slowly or B) wait until it eats one of your group members before determining that it is a predator and then running away? Better yet, what if a local told you that there's a strange man-eating predator out in the woods beforehand? Do you still wait until your hypothesis is tested first? (The obvious answer would be to bring a gun with you, but let's assume that no such third solution exists.)

      Science isn't the answer to everything. It'll only produce an answer if you have the time to wait for the analysis. Furthermore, science doesn't produce phenomenon. It requires an existing phenomenon to act upon, which it will then (hopefully) produce a likely cause for the phenomenon.

      That having been said, it's a good idea to listen to what science says after the test results and subsequent analysis have come in. But just because a phenomenon hasn't been proven by science to exist doens't mean it doesn't exist. (And in this sense, I'm not so much replying to you directly as I am to some of the other replies out there.)

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    41. Re:Comment from the article... ? by NoSig · · Score: 1

      I think in your analogy you are saying that science is generally at odds with plain obvious truths right in front of you that anyone can see. I don't think that's generally the case. Obviously scientists can be wrong, but I don't think that's what you are going for here. If you are saying that you don't need a scientist to bless your perception of a predator in order for you to act on it, well I don't see that as something in opposition to science.

      I think what you are really talking about is a situation where there is a folk legend about a weather phenomenon that scientists disbelieve. In that case I would believe the scientists on the weather yet listen to the locals on how much clothes to wear, and I think so would the scientists.

      You also state that science is only useful if you wait around until the science is done. That's not how science works - science is never done. What science does in time is improve. What you get by waiting is that improvement in knowledge.

    42. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      Tell that to the other 39,999,999 sperm. LOSERS!

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
    43. Re:Comment from the article... ? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      I am skeptical that you can suck down air from an area of low pressure into one of high pressure. Physics says this is not possible. Also, with high winds it would be possible for surface temperatures on the body to cool down rapidly, but pulling the heat of of the deeper body tissue would take quite some time as air is not a very good conductor of heat. Now, if it was very humid air, then it might occur faster because water is a better conductor than air and also has more energy capacity than air. Of course, there is almost no moisture content in the upper troposhere, and the lower troposhere is of course at ground level.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    44. Re:Comment from the article... ? by blach · · Score: 1

      [Rush]
      If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!
      [/Rush]

    45. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that asphyxiation would occur first and then she would freeze to death in such a weather phenom.
      But you know...troll yeah...

    46. Re:Comment from the article... ? by bsercombe72 · · Score: 1

      "The Report concluded that the deaths of the 9500 native birds in December 2006 and March 2007 resulted from lead poisoning from Magellan Metals lead carbonate concentrate which had been handled by the Esperance Port Authority from April 2005 until March 2007. A quarter of the children under 5 years of age that were tested showed a blood lead level over 5 g/dL. Whilst this is not as high as other communities affected by lead pollution, it certainly shows an impact from lead contamination."

    47. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Confusador · · Score: 1

      No, that I'll buy. I live in Minnesota, and while it's not the same league as Siberia or Alaska, the middle of January does make you think about your priorities. If you don't make it a point to enjoy life, the cold will drive you flippin' nuts.

    48. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? "more [...] leisure activities than moskovites [sic]"? Are you on crack?!

    49. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't comment on northern climates, and the "instant hypothermia" bit seems a bit odd (as in impossible), but we have a similar "micro tornado" thing that happens here in the high desert in california. On hot dry days we get "dust devils", so named because they form dust tornado's when passing over loose dirt. However, when passing through the more dense bush areas the dust drops and they're invisible (not quite, you can still see the bushes rustling, but they're small and local so you wouldn't see one until it's near you already), but still pack quite a punch if they hit you.

    50. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Kuruk · · Score: 1

      People do the Polar 300 club
      http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/things_to_do/polar_300_club.html

      Its quite a shock changing temps 300deg but it wont kill you in seconds.

    51. Re:Comment from the article... ? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "side squarely with what is pre-established and therefore never learn anything new and fail to ever address the slightest anomaly whether it challenges their worldview or not."
      This is not only false, it fails to recognize how one survives in a scientific field.

      Plesae stiop the nonsense

      "truck dead by a tornado as big around as her sucking down temperatures from the upper atmosphere t"
      tornadoes do not work that way. A far more plausible explanation is that she was sweating, took off some layer and went outside and lost her body heat through rapid evaporation.

      But hey, maybe these are different. That would be cool. Do these invisible tornadoes have a name? any good video footage of someone in them?

      "and we can assume that there is plenty under the sun that science doesn't quite comprehend."
      of course. If not, well, there wouldn't need to be a need for science because we would know it all. Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean anything is possible, or that it is unknowable.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    52. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit.

      Pics or it didn't happen.

    53. Re:Comment from the article... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have micro tornadoes in DC as well. I see them a lot in the fall in the corner of the alley by where our smoking area was moved to. A bunch of leaves blowing around in a circle. I guess I'll move somewhere else safer to smoke my cigarettes because I don't want to do anything that will increase of chances of dieing.

  15. It's Arkansas by antifoidulus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe the birds realized they were in Arkansas and figured suicide was really the only way out.

    1. Re:It's Arkansas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the thousands of blackbirds were probably eating the thousands of drum as 5 billion years of nature would suggest. the toxin is probably the product of some bubba in arkansas makin' god knows what they make in arkansas and dumped it into a creek. The substance traveled as a huge blob into a school of drum near its initial source before it was diluted by water and time. Moral of the story? Don't go to Arkansas.

    2. Re:It's Arkansas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mayb the birdsch rhealischd they were in Arkanscha and figschurd schuschide wasch rheally the only whay out.

      Fixed that for you.

    3. Re:It's Arkansas by Himring · · Score: 1

      I got arrested traveling through Arkansas once. They got me for contraband. I had a bunch of books. I got off on a technicality: no one could prove they were books....

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    4. Re:It's Arkansas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the birds realized they were in Arkansas and figured suicide was really the only way out.

      I remember flying into Texas after leaving Oregon, and my thoughts indeed drifted toward suicide. I can imagine how these birds felt when entering Arkansas. There was only one reasonable option. But were they wearing Nikes?

  16. "Blackbirds Fall from Sky Dead"? by ocdscouter · · Score: 1

    Call me Captain Pedantic, but I'd say it pays to punctuate. But then again, I've never had to write headlines under a deadline (I presume), so perhaps I can never know the pressures under which such compromises are made.

    1. Re:"Blackbirds Fall from Sky Dead"? by Viperpete · · Score: 1

      I would have suggested: "Thousands of Dead Blackbirds Fall From Sky."

      I see no good reason for the adjective to follow the indirect object vs. prefixing the direct object, such as the other adjective in the statement (quantity.)

      Or you could do a Yoda: "From Sky Fall Blackbirds, Thousands Dead There Are"

      --
      loose: not fitting closely or tightly != lose: to suffer the deprivation of
    2. Re:"Blackbirds Fall from Sky Dead"? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      The original headline, keeps the reader in suspense until the last word. Your first suggestion is anti-climactic. The Yoda one ( while funny), is too complex of a sentence structure which confuses people too much. You want a little complexity to build the suspense as the original did, but not so much that the reader (average 5th grad level) has to re parse the sentence. They may interpret it as a non native phrasing and associate it with spam.

      Writing a headline is an art. Especially, now a days on th internet. If you create enough interest in a few words, boom, another click on your site greater potential for ad revenue.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    3. Re:"Blackbirds Fall from Sky Dead"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Thousands of Dead Blackbirds Fall From Sky." = Dead birds falling from the sky.
      "Thousands of Blackbirds Fall From Sky Dead" = Birds falling from the sky, now dead.

      We don't know if they were dead while falling or if they died after they "landed".

    4. Re:"Blackbirds Fall from Sky Dead"? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Headlines are a lot like humor. There was a great book I read a decade or so ago, "Comedy Writing Secrets"; one of the secrets was that a joke leads the listener down a familiar path, turning at the last instant to somewhere strange, and that creates the humor. A joke, to have the greatest impact, should turn on the last word, and if possible, on the last syllable. "Great minds think a lot" is an example of the latter (yes, "a lot" is two words but it's compared to "alike" which is one); the listener is led down the path that "he's saying my idea was good, and that we both are smart", but instead turns into "I'm smart and I think a lot; no information about the listener".

      All that was to say, I agree: writing a headline is an art.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  17. Lightning strike unlikely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sounds like the whole town was covered with birds and it seems to be mostly one species. It's doubtful that a lightning strike could affect birds over that wide an area. Curious what the final finding is on the deaths. Definitely possible that it was still atmospheric. Odd that no one reported seeing them because they seem to fall from the sky and appear to have done so quickly but birds as a rule don't fly at night especially red wing black birds. Still possible they got poisoned.

    1. Re:Lightning strike unlikely by eyenot · · Score: 2

      The fish that died around there in the same time period were only one species, too.

      --
      "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
    2. Re:Lightning strike unlikely by lxs · · Score: 1

      Something smells fishy about this. I suspect fowl play!

  18. FlashForwardD by prod-you · · Score: 0

    Maybe it's caused by the same thing that killed all the crows in FlashForward!

  19. Maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they all died of separate, but natural causes. I know its unlikely, but why not?

  20. Fireworks? by RoFLKOPTr · · Score: 1

    or perhaps trauma from the sound of New Year's fireworks killed them.

    Oh don't say something like that without proof. Just the fact that such a wild guess was even thrown about is more than enough reason for the animal welfare dickheads to want to ban fireworks outright.

    1. Re:Fireworks? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      How about poison? Leave out some bird feed but contaminate it with something which will kill them over the next few hours. Many poisons intended for pests are designed to work slowly so the carcass isn't found right beside the poison.

    2. Re:Fireworks? by harlequinn · · Score: 1

      Actually you're probably spot on. My father-in-law told me of a massive overnight bird die-off in the south-eastern portion of Australia. The shire council decided to eradicate the rabbit plague by laying millions of poisoned carrots. Of course the local flocks of budgerigars (parakeets in America) were all killed overnight since they fed on the carrots. I asked how many died and he said that up until that day, every morning and evening the sky was almost blocked out by the millions of budgerigars that flocked in the sky together.

  21. Chicken Little vindicated! by Christian+Marks · · Score: 2

    Chicken Little has been vindicated at last!

  22. Oh, by norppalaho · · Score: 2

    religious folks gonna love this one. :|

    --
    One of the coolest sites, ever: zombo.com
    1. Re:Oh, by Sirfrummel · · Score: 2

      This is the same thing I was thinking.... I'm just waiting for someone on my facebook or something else to start saying it's a sign of jesus's return.

    2. Re:Oh, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be great! Get those guys out of here so the rest of us can live in peace.

  23. I know! by sjames · · Score: 4, Funny

    They're pining for the fjords!

    1. Re:I know! by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      They're not dead, they're resting!

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
  24. My suggestions by syousef · · Score: 5, Funny

    Given the fanciful explanations being put forward, I thought I'd add these possibilities which are just as likely:

    - Blackbird mob war (explains the trauma too!) ....Variation: A new super race of pigeon decided to whack the competition

    - Suicide protest over the abandonment of puppies and kittens over Christmas

    - Someone below was constipated for a week after eating some curry and after going off to die on his own in the wilderness managed to pass wind just in time to prevent death from toxic shock. Unfortunately the birds copped the brunt of it.

    - Terrorist Blackbird not caught at the Blackbird airport in time because those pesky Blackbirds loved their freedom too much and refused to be irradiated and groped before they travel

    - Y2K11 didn't just hit iPads and iPhones. Those poor Blackbirds shouldn't have bought their pacemakers from Apple and believed the "It just works" hype

    - An alien witch temporarily transformed them from Blackbirds into Lemmings. When they hit the ground they changed back

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:My suggestions by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      Don't refer to the iPhone alarm clock issue as Y2K11; it's i2K.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:My suggestions by MoeDumb · · Score: 0

      "Blackbird fly . . ." Guess not.

      --
      Mod Me Up. You'll make a grown man cry.
    3. Re:My suggestions by Walter+White · · Score: 1

      ...

      - An alien witch temporarily transformed them from Blackbirds into Lemmings. When they hit the ground they changed back

      An alien witch? Why does it have to be an alien witch? You seem to know more about this then you're letting on!

  25. Horrid ending by witherstaff · · Score: 1

    It was a decent King book, good characters, some interesting mishaps (Suspension of disbelief, but it's a king book). But then the ending was a WTF moment. It was like King had no idea where to end it so he pulled something like BSG did to end their series. Had no idea where it was going so just wrapped it up quick. He made this big deal throughout the book about the dome hitting exactly on the border of the town, a border that is a manmade construct on a map, but then well... he never went anywhere with THAT or why it happened to hit there.

    The simpsons movie was better, the simpsons episode where they mock the King book and their own movie was funny too.

    1. Re:Horrid ending by dtml-try+MyNick · · Score: 1

      Agree, the first 75% (orso) of the book is a very decent "King". The ending however...

      I read that he had the story in his mind for 15 years but never written and published it because he felt it wasn't good enough yet. He should have waited a few more years in that case... (purely my personal opinion)

      --
      Life starts at the end of your comfort zone.
    2. Re:Horrid ending by Bigbutt · · Score: 2

      Meh, I've found that with several of King's books. I'd be reading along and it's going well and then _The End_

      WTF? But what happened with... and... but...

      I'm actually kinda offended that he was mentioned in the same breath as Alfred Hitchcock.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    3. Re:Horrid ending by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Alan Campbell should have done that with his series, The Deepgate Codex. Or maybe he should do a remake... I would love to see a remake of the series.

    4. Re:Horrid ending by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      It was a decent King book, good characters, some interesting mishaps (Suspension of disbelief, but it's a king book). But then the ending was a WTF moment. It was like King had no idea where to end it so he pulled something like BSG did to end their series. Had no idea where it was going so just wrapped it up quick.

      So, it was like every other Stephen King book? ;-P

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  26. 4 and twenty blackbirds... by TexNex · · Score: 1

    Pie anyone?

  27. Quoth the raven... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nevermore.

  28. The Oprah Winfrey Network went on the air. Nothing could survive flying through those waves.

  29. What? by lennier1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Blackbirds? Didn't the military retire those years ago?

    1. Re:What? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I didn't realise they had so many.

    2. Re:What? by w0mprat · · Score: 1

      So the real story here is that anyone noticed Arkansas being used as the dumping ground for aging military equipment?

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    3. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like anyone noticing Arkansas at all.

  30. Or maybe it's pollution (and you are an idiot) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Deluded right wing nutcases like yourself only believe in conspiracies while you ignore the real outrages that happen every day. The retarded website you linked to dismisses idea that companies recklessly pollute and claims that global warming is itself a conspiracy by the government against business. Chemtrails on the other hand are a weird government conspiracy in the eyes of these right wing idiots.

    The website you linked to is against the Environmental Protection Agency!?!

    You retards have it all figured out...

  31. Flash Forward? by garry_g · · Score: 1

    Anybody in the vicinity drop unconscious for a while?

  32. Fark news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    again.

  33. Here it comes by guspasho · · Score: 1

    Somebody get Joseph Fiennes on this!

  34. Hitchcock novel? by kubernet3s · · Score: 2

    Anyone else catch that?

    1. Re: Hitchcock novel? by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      They must mean Jane Hitchcock.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  35. Obvious by undecim · · Score: 1

    It's obvious what happened: The birds realized they were in Arkansas.

    --
    The Internet has given stupid people the resources of intelligent people.
  36. My wife... by scsirob · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    .. She ate beans and farted..
    Sorry.

    --
    To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    1. Re:My wife... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      She should probably not eat fermented beans.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  37. Lead Dust? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Australia, a few trucks with loose lead dust made birds fall out of the sky.
    I'll go for heavy metal pollution.

    1. Re:Lead Dust? by dbIII · · Score: 1
      That's what it reminded me of too, but the news report said:

      An Arkansas state ornithologist said they showed signs of trauma and noted similar events have occurred elsewhere.

      If it's lead poisoning it would have to be high velocity lead poisoning to cause trauma.
      It would be interesting to see what is found in a few days and hear about those similar events that occured elsewhere.

    2. Re:Lead Dust? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think falling hundreds of feet out of the sky would cause trauma.

    3. Re:Lead Dust? by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think falling hundreds of feet out of the sky would cause trauma.

      Falling hundreds of feet could not cause trauma to the birds. The sudden stop at the end, however, will do the trick.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    4. Re:Lead Dust? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      I'd say the most likely culprit is a few oversized non-spec firework rockets. Some of the black market and most impressive fireworks are deadlier than AA flak, and release some quite unhealthy heavy metal fumes too.

  38. Insult? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps someone was insulted, and when responding they misunderstood what "giving someone the bird" meant.

  39. Improbability Drive! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was a spaceship that used the Improbability Drive as it left our planet! The Improbability Drive transformed the blackbirds into the fish, and the fish into blackbirds. The fish fell out of the sky to their death, and the birds drowned. When the spaceship was far enough, they were all transformed back!

    1. Re:Improbability Drive! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      At an improbability of.... Hey thats my phone number!

  40. Fall dead? by Master+Moose · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How do we know the fall didn't kill them.

    Perhaps they all fell from the sky alive, but it was impact with the earth that got them? You people too quick to jump to conclusions - all of you!

    --
    . . .gone when the morning comes
    1. Re:Fall dead? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Being birds some of them would probably survive the fall long enough to prove that they weren't dead before the impact, even if they were somehow completely immobilized to the point that they couldn't do so much as open their wings.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Fall dead? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      The local news here said that some of them were in fact laying on the ground dying, and then died shortly later.
      Oddly enough, just about two minutes before hearing this news story I passed what looked to me like a dead hawk or related raptor by the side of the road which did not appear to have been hit by a car or anything so traumatic. My initial thought was that it had maybe gotten electrocuted by the overhead wires and fell down.
      Then the next story on the news was about the blackbirds. Of course, that was another species, and 400 miles away, but it was quite an odd coincidence.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  41. Y2K by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

    maybe they weren'r Y2K+10 complient

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    1. Re:Y2K by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      It’s a year too late for that.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
  42. Andromeda? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wildfire anyone?

  43. The Problem Is Solved... by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    The birds were hit by emanations from the Arkansas school system, and promptly forgot how to fly.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    1. Re:The Problem Is Solved... by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      Hey now! Arkansas schools aren't *that* bad - at least, they aren't as bad as Mississippi...

      In fact, that's our state motto. "Thank God for Mississippi". If not for them, we'd be the butt of *all* the jokes.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    2. Re:The Problem Is Solved... by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      Excellent response!

      I must apologize. I failed to consider that the birds very likely were stricken in Mississippi, and crossed the border into Arkansas as they fell.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  44. Well, by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 0

    Clearly it's The Pattern.

  45. It was the portable dog killer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  46. It's not fireworks. by Israfels · · Score: 2

    if it was fireworks, the birds would be dying in other locations around the US and at other times, such as 4th of July.

    This incident took place in a one square mile near the city.

  47. FlashForward, anyone? by General_Fei · · Score: 0

    "For two minutes and seventeen seconds...." (flash to [blackbird]-strewn fields)....

  48. Repent. The end is near, etc. by bazorg · · Score: 2

    Repent, the end is nigh, Elton John and his husband had a child on Christmas day and women dress without modesty in Liechtenstein, therefore we are all DOOOOOOOMED. Especially the fish and the birds in Arkansas, who were all gay and very keen on felching.

  49. Watch around by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    Im sure should be pigs in platforms not far from there. Don't drink and play Angry Birds..

  50. death ray? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what about resonance frequency.

  51. The Core? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did the center of the earth stop spinning?

  52. You have to read beyond the story by davidbrit2 · · Score: 1

    Like why are there 4,000-5,000 SR-71 Blackbirds in operation over Arkansas? What do they know that we don't?

  53. Updraft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sucked the birds up into the cold/anoxic region of the atmosphere - they die then fall to earth.

    Nothing complex, just some extreme weather.

  54. The book of the damned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has happened many times before

  55. Angry? by Andy+Smith · · Score: 3, Funny

    Maybe the birds had become angry at some nearby pigs and began launching themselves from catapults.

    1. Re:Angry? by aarner · · Score: 1

      It was me. I misread the recipe and baked 4200 into a pie instead of the four-and-twenty it called for.
      -a

    2. Re:Angry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They use a slingshot.

  56. The Rapture? by jamesh · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's the rapture, and all the blackbirds ascended to heaven leaving their mortal bodies behind. We should probably find out what god they were worshiping and switch ASAP. Obviously the fish were worshiping the same god too.

  57. Arkansa also had a massive fish kill by MadHungarian · · Score: 1
  58. Angry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps they got too angry and had strokes.

    1. Re:Angry by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      The question is, did they hit the pigs?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  59. By Air Nor Sea by revxul · · Score: 1
    --
    Truth, Just Us, And Hatred For All Mankind!
  60. The Blacks & The Drums by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Turns out local blackbirds and drum fish are ensnarled in some vicious gang warfare.
    Just awful.

  61. correction by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    In a fashion worthy of a King or Hitchcock novel..

    Alfred Hitchcock did not write novels.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  62. Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The fall killed them.

  63. The earthquake cause: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  64. Idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you basically said was: “these animals will die unless we slaughter them for meat.” How incredibly stupid. As people gradually stop eating meat, I can solve this animal population problem with three words. Stop breeding more.

  65. re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the beginning of the Zombie Apocolypse! Look out Alaska, here I come.

  66. Nonsense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have essentially made the “might makes right” argument. If you want to argue: we should kill because we can kill, then I hope you are prepared to defend yourself against those who would want for your life and property. Lucky for you, modern civilization protects both.

    Yes, predators and prey are natural. Tell me what, exactly, is natural about how we farm animals for food? Prey do not spend their entire lives in miserable conditions, drugged-up on antibiotics, before they are killed by their predators. In the process, we are rapidly consuming natural resources for minimal gain, fostering more dangerous pathogens, destroying our environment, and causing untold anguish for sentient creatures with surprising intelligence.

    Lastly, humans, like other primates, are herbivores. Only complete dolts suggest we need meat three times daily, or even once weekly (let alone milk, which is intended for infants). Where are our claws? Fangs? You have no built-in mechanisms with which to hunt, kill, render, or even digest the animals you intend to eat without modern tools (which came very late in our evolution). For anecdotal evidence to this point, look around at the disgustingly obese people all around you. Notice the strong correlation between heart disease, atherosclerosis, cancer, and diabetes with meat consumption. Notice, also, that the countries with the highest osteoporosis rates consume the most dairy products.

    In summary, killing animals is ethically unsustainable, our means are completely unnatural, and eating their products is bad for us.

    1. Re:Nonsense. by mutube · · Score: 2

      Lastly, humans, like other primates, are herbivores.

      This is quite wrong. Humans are omnivores, as are a number of other primates including Capuchins. Tarsiers are obligate carnivores (that is, they *only* eat meat). Chimpanzees even eat other primates.

    2. Re:Nonsense. by jizziknight · · Score: 1

      Where are our claws? Fangs?

      Clearly, you have not looked a primate in the mouth, ever. http://www.google.com/images?q=primate+fangs

      --
      Everything I say is a lie. Except that... and that... and that, and that, and that, and that... and that.
    3. Re:Nonsense. by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      You have essentially made the “might makes right” argument. If you want to argue: we should kill because we can kill, then I hope you are prepared to defend yourself against those who would want for your life and property. Lucky for you, modern civilization protects both.

      Modern civilization protects no one from other humans (except maybe humans from other countries). It punishes misbehavior when caught. Very few people in danger are protected. Modern civilization does protect us from dangers like predators, prey animals (deer and moose seem to think we're predators and respond by fighting), temperature extremes.

      Lastly, humans, like other primates, are herbivores. Only complete dolts suggest we need meat three times daily, or even once weekly (let alone milk, which is intended for infants). Where are our claws? Fangs? You have no built-in mechanisms with which to hunt, kill, render, or even digest the animals you intend to eat without modern tools (which came very late in our evolution).

      Built in mechanism: Our legs. Ever beat an opponent in a sport by just out-lasting him? Didn't it feel exhilarating? Before we could use rocks tied to sticks to kill things, we would throw a club at them, then chase them slowly for miles until they passed out from exhaustion, then we'd walk up and club them by hand. All that running takes a lot of calories, and ancient man wasn't in a pasta-making mood.
      Regarding digestion, you do realize that humans _can_ metabolize raw meat/fat, but only in small doses? Cooking meat came before modern man (because cooking meat reduces the energy required to digest it, that energy can be applied to the brain).

      For anecdotal evidence to this point, look around at the disgustingly obese people all around you.

      Anecdotal evidence: I eat mostly meat with some vegis/fruits and occasional grains. I am below 25 BMI, but I bet your anemic vegetarian wireframe doesn't have enough fat to last a drought. Vegetarian lifestyle can't subsist without farming and preservation - modern tools. Ancient humans (pre-farming) would die out during the first winter or drought if they were herbivores.

    4. Re:Nonsense. by lwsimon · · Score: 2

      I'd go further and state that most of the obese people around you (including myself) got that way from eating processed grains and sugars - bread and soda, namely.

      I'd lose a shit-ton of weight if I moved to a primarily meat diet.

      Also, men are not herbivores. We are omnivores. We don't need fangs and claws because we are tool-users. My claws are rifles and my fangs are a stove. 100 generations ago, my ancestors' claws were spears and their fangs were a cooking fire.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    5. Re:Nonsense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Cooking meat came before modern man (because cooking meat reduces the energy required to digest it, that energy can be applied to the brain).

      Now then, this explains a thing or two about the radical vegetable advocates shitting all over this discussion!

    6. Re:Nonsense. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Prey do not spend their entire lives in miserable conditions, drugged-up on antibiotics, before they are killed by their predators.

      Have you ever seen an insct in a spider web?

      In the process, we are rapidly consuming natural resources for minimal gain

      And which natural resources would that be? Cows eat hay, and hay is 100% renewable.

      Onl a complete dolt would think that humans are naturally herbivores; we're not. Cows and other herbivores don't have canine teeth, but carnivores (like dogs and cats) and omnivores (like pigs and humans) do.

      For anecdotal evidence to this point, look around at the disgustingly obese people all around you.

      That's because for most of human history, food was scarce. It no longer is. Sorry, but you've been fooled by fools, fool.

    7. Re:Nonsense. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      no, they got that way by ingesting too many calories.
      No exceptions.

      Careful primarily meat diet has other problems. Eat right, eat balanced.

      What you need to do is simple, doing it is hard as hell because we are wired to eat when we can, and these days baby, we can eat anytime.

      Nothing is more appalling to me then the idea of a 4th meal, but I'll be damned if that doesn't sound delicious and midnight.

      And why the hell is cereal so damn good at midnight?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:Nonsense. by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      We're saying the same things - processed grains (bread, pasta) and sugars (soda, candy, snack cakes) are very calorie-dense. If you sit down and eat ribeye until you're full, and the person beside you eats Little Debbies until they're full, the person beside you is going to be consuming a shit ton more calories than you are.

      Meat is not the cause of obesity.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    9. Re:Nonsense. by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      Regarding digestion, you do realize that humans _can_ metabolize raw meat/fat, but only in small doses? Cooking meat came before modern man (because cooking meat reduces the energy required to digest it, that energy can be applied to the brain).

      A source for that information would be interesting. Do the Inuit count?

      bet your anemic vegetarian wireframe doesn't have enough fat to last a drought.

      I'll take your bet (very low fat layer, above average weight - though I *do* eat fish, yabbies, eggs, and some dairy). If elephants, rhinos, and hippos could bet they might too.

      All that running takes a lot of calories,

      (Hmmm, Cliff Young?)Why run at all? And why bark when you've got a pack of dogs?

      ancient man wasn't in a pasta-making mood.

      Pasta - well not exactly. Plenty of evidence around my place of early man - the most commonly seen ones are grain grinding bowls.... hunter gathers were mostly nomadic, meaning they moved according to where the food was, not aimlessly wandering. I suspect no-meat diets came much later in our development - when transfer of the protein rich foods from the equatorial regions to areas of high density human habitation away from the coast. Jared Diamond has written a series of interesting theories on how the origins of different food sources affected early societies. Most of early mans food sources would have been fruit, veg, grain, seafood and small game. In PNG traditional society (which isn't coastal) the main protein source is still not meat.

      Ancient humans (pre-farming) would die out during the first winter or drought if they were herbivores.

      I'm tempted to look for a pun about nuts :-D

      Pre-farming doesn't mean pre-gathering. Grains, achenes, and filberts were an important part of the diet in many parts of the world (pre-farming).

      Much of this discussion in this thread is like those silly shows where arm-chair enthusiasts try to rebuild ancient wonders and "prove" it impossible for modern man to recreate - and conveniently overlook the fact that none of those building feats are lost. I.e. people are theorizing about whether people "could have" eaten or done things - that people "do" do right now.

      Never forget that we humans can not just adapt our surrounding - we are also very adaptable. One of the failing of some of the arguments made in the meat vs veg part of these threads is that mostly meat diets were/are a reality (Masai, Boers, etc) but pure vegetarians are a figment of modern (western) mans philosophies. In "real" life (away from health food shops, and dietary philosophers) veg means - no red meat - but rats, frogs, fish, birds, shellfish and insects are fair game. Mmmm grasshopper pizza - delicious, nutritious, high calorie, and so easy to get a feed from! :-)

      Lastly, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace used to say (something like) - as long as you exercise a lot and drink plenty of water - it doesn't really matter what you eat.

    10. Re:Nonsense. by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      We're saying the same things - processed grains (bread, pasta) and sugars (soda, candy, snack cakes) are very calorie-dense. If you sit down and eat ribeye until you're full, and the person beside you eats Little Debbies until they're full, the person beside you is going to be consuming a shit ton more calories than you are.

      Meat is not the cause of obesity.

      Insufficient exercise *and* over-eating is the 'cause of obesity. Half an hour of "light" exercise a day is not fitness. Exercise of more than a continuous hour a day - every day - leads to a raised metabolic rate even when not exercising. Few jobs (if any) in the modern western world give you an hour of continuously raised heart beat a day. Most football players are not as fit as our many of our ancestors were a hundred years ago - or as much of the world (so called third) is now.

  67. apples fault. by Carebears · · Score: 1

    alarm didn't go off, birds couldn't afford to get written up again, suicide was the only choice.

  68. Beebee by tylersoze · · Score: 2

    Not that I really expect any sort of editorial checking from Slashdot anymore, but the name of the town is Beebee. I should know, I grew up just south of there, and I was in the area over Christmas visiting my family. We left the day before this happened. There were strong thunderstorms the day we left, so that might have been the cause.

    1. Re:Beebee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're kidding, right? You lived close by and even YOU can't get the spelling right?

      Beebe

    2. Re:Beebee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I *LIVE* just west of there. Its Beebe. Not Beebee, Beeb, or any variation thereof. Pronounced B.B. just like the little round ball that is shot out of a Red Ryder gun.

    3. Re:Beebee by blach · · Score: 1

      Wrong, it's Beebe. If you're going to punk someone out, make sure not to misspell it.

    4. Re:Beebee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The name is Beebe. So you either have been laboring under a misconception all these years or they changed the name since the last time you checked and no one told you.

  69. It's obvious, no? by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

    Colony collapse disorder has just jumped the species barrier!

    --

    Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  70. Troll? Shill? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The earthquake cause: (Score:-1)
    by Anonymous Coward on 01-03-11 5:23 (#34742840)
    HAARP

    Are you being paid to discredit HAARP conspiracy theorists, or is it just a hobby?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  71. Re:Shakers.. by mengel · · Score: 1

    Actually, Shakers thought THEY shouldn't have sex; they were a celibate order, like Catholic nuns. They realized most folks should procreate.

    They got done in when the state started orphans homes, and they no longer had orphans to raise and recruit from.

    --
    - "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
  72. Radiation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Radiation from high powered military radar has been known to drop birds like that.

  73. Wow, this is really being played down... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    There's a goddamned good reason this kind of thing doesn't happen very day (no, I don't know what that reason is; I'm trying to make a point here :p). Anybody here ever read Earth by David Brin? No, I'm not suggesting that beams of coherent/concentrated gravitational energy were what took out these birds (and the nearby fish). What I am suggesting is that we be willing to explore various possible explanations, regardless of how far fetched and outlandish they may seem to the properly-indoctrinated, unimaginative philistines that compromise the loudest voices on Slashdot. Anyone heard of HAARP? Anybody bother to look overhead at any point over the past decade? If so, you might have noticed these so-called "contrails" that remain in the sky for dozens of miles (if not hundreds!) and form into clouds (nevermind that the conditions under which actual contrails form, and the behavior they exhibit, has been observed and well-understood for decades). Perhaps, if we're going to get at a likely explanation, we need to open up our minds a bit... just a suggestion.

    1. Re:Wow, this is really being played down... by Revek · · Score: 2

      Whoa contrail did it huh. Have you ever noticed during certain kinds of weather cold clear low humidity that the contrail from planes last longer. Could it have something to do with temperature dew point and other atmospheric conditions?
      No of course not. Its the black hole at the center of the earth sending our fairy farts and fucking with our birds and fish in Arkansas. that's it that's the ticket

    2. Re:Wow, this is really being played down... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Have you ever noticed during certain kinds of weather cold clear low humidity that the contrail from planes last longer.

      Riiiggght... that's why the trails crisscrossed the sky like crazy this past summer, in ever-repeating patterns from horizon to horizon... and a new series would be begun a couple days later (I guess that means the airlines are now only flying every third or fourth day?), all while it was humid and hotter than hell.

      Its the black hole at the center of the earth sending our fairy farts and fucking with our birds and fish in Arkansas.

      Strawman much? :p

  74. It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by Steeltoe · · Score: 2, Informative

    People following a vegetarian diet must eat protein foods that have complementary proteins so that the essential amino acids missing from one protein food can be supplied by another.
    What are some examples of complementary proteins?

    # Beans and tortillas
    # Peanut butter sandwich
    # Macaroni and cheese
    # Tofu with rice
    # Hummus with pita bread
    # Chickpeas and rice

    Do people following a vegetarian diet need to eat complementary proteins at every meal?
    It was once believed that complementary proteins had to be consumed at every meal. We now know that intentional combining at each meal isn't necessary.

    Source: http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/dietarytherapy/a/Vegetarian.htm

    From my own experience as lacto-ovo veggie for 10 years, lentils provide just as much or more proteins as meat, and eating varied provides you enough of everything. It's not that hard, unless you're the fiery / hunter type who craves food and meat especially. Medically, lacto-ovo vegetarian diet is superior and easy, as long as you don't restrict yourself to pasta, rice or just a few foods, but eat a varied diet.

    If you're eating meat, you should question how your bowels look and smell, how much meat is stuck inside there undigested and foul. This is why, when people go veggie, they often smell worse for a good while, until their bodies are cleaned out. You can do bowel cleansing, which every person should do every other year anyways.

    Vegan diet (no animal byproducts too) on the other hand. Well, those who follow it seem gray and sickly to me. I don't think it is optimal.

    So we may not have to slaughter all those cows after all. Indeed, cows are reveered as holy in India for their usefulness, and many groups of people in that country have been vegetarian for thousands of years.

    1. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      If you're eating meat, you should question how your bowels look and smell, how much meat is stuck inside there undigested and foul.

      Just as an FYI, from this side of the planet, this is really, really, really, really, really low on the list of what's important to me. If you're unhappy about how my bowels smell, kindly stop smelling them.

      Also, I question the diligence of the ethical position that prohibits eating the flesh of animals while still exploiting their reproductive material. "We love chickens so much that we only eat their unborn babies." Something tells me that they wouldn't be super happy about that, if you could ask them. Also, chicken farms are one of the very worst examples of the way humans farm animals, and milk production is a close second. Think of all the hormones, confinement, and pain used to produce these products. And unlike the steer or hog about to be slaughtered, these cows and chickens live out there ENTIRE LIVES in servitude.

      To me either animals are resources to be used (for things like tasty meat and spiffy leather) or they're not. Oh, and if you're against leather, by the way, please stop all uses of any form of plastic. Where do you think THAT stuff comes from? Dead animals...

    2. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by certain+death · · Score: 1

      Meat sitting undigested in your bowels is a wives tale. If it were true, you would have long ago swollen up and burst. If you are going to shill about something, kindly use a medical source for your outlandish scare tactics.

      --
      "My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
    3. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Go fish. I didn't make the claim, Steeltoe did.

    4. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by certain+death · · Score: 1

      Yes, sorry to imply by post that it was you...

      --
      "My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
    5. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      If you're eating meat, you should question how your bowels look and smell, how much meat is stuck inside there undigested and foul.

      That's a completely bogus and unscientific statement. Our digestive systems evolved over millions of years for us to be omnivores, not herbivores.

      My bowels have also evolved over the last several million years to not NEED bowel cleansing; that's what salmonella does (and hint: you need that flora in your gut, if you get the runs or an enema, eat yogurt or cottage cheese to get the bacteria back to where it belongs).

      I'm an omnivore, the way evolution has designed me. I'll keep eating meat, and I'll make you a deal -- don't try and me into an herbivire, and I'll not try to make you buy into MY religion.

    6. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      Again new "facts" from people who have never done any real investigation into the matter themselves.

      If you try bowel cleansing, ie. fasting for 4-5 days and doing cleansing every other day, you would say otherwise. What comes out in the toilet is just absolutely disgusting. The smell is Godawful, and what comes out is not brown, but a black and thick tar-like substance.

      Having done the cleanse, and being veggie, it is much better if I do it now, not black anymore. It is generally known that people having been veggie all their life, have much cleaner bowels and the first time they do it is not so disgusting as for those who have eaten meat.

      Unless you've actually experienced this yourself, you'll only have to take my word for it. But this is from my own and many others' experiences.

      I'm not saying you must stop eating meat, I'm just correcting the mantra being spouted from these posts which are entirely incorrect and not in phase with reality. You may rationalize your choices however you want, but not with flawed and emotional arguments.

      It is good to have a clean body if you want to avoid life-style related sickness though. Cancer is from the most recent studies believed to be strongly correlated to inflamations in the body, which impurities will aggravate.

      With this information, do as you wish.

    7. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by WCLPeter · · Score: 1

      From my own experience as lacto-ovo veggie for 10 years, lentils provide just as much or more proteins as meat

      I respect your choice to be a lacto-ovo veggie but even my most basic of investigations into the vegetarian "protein substitutes" also tend to show they are monstrously high in carbohydrates. As a diabetic on a restricted diet of 60 grams of carbohydrates per meal I could have a single scoop of Lentils and then be hungry and risk snacking, or I can have a balanced diet that includes grains, meats & fish, milk and milk products, and vegetables that is more filling and provides a better mix of nutrition providing a more stable blood sugar level while allowing me to feel "full" between meals.

    8. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      You're rationalizing your own prejudice though.

      People have been doing bowel cleansing and other cleanses for thousands of years. You can find this in most cultures separated over the entire globe. It is an important way to keep the body and mind healthy.

      It is only with recent times people have stopped doing this very natural thing, and now relying on antibiotics to reduce parasite infestations, something which destroys the natural bacteria flora and has many other side-effects.

      Besides bowel cleansing has many positive side-effects, like reducing inflamations and making the digestion more effective.

      The importance of digestions seems to have been forgotten by modern science due to the shortcut of antibiotics it seems, which is a shame.

      With this information do as you wish.

    9. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      If you eat enough bananas, your shit does not stink.

    10. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      It is only with recent times people have stopped doing this very natural thing, and now relying on antibiotics to reduce parasite infestations, something which destroys the natural bacteria flora and has many other side-effects.

      If it were a natural part of human life everyone would be doing it anyway. Also i have never done it and can count the times I've been prescribed antibiotics on one hand.

      The importance of digestions seems to have been forgotten by modern science due to the shortcut of antibiotics it seems, which is a shame.

      So you're saying meat eaters who don't do this bowel cleansing thing had serious problems before the advent of antibiotics? bollocks

    11. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      You're rationalizing your own prejudice though.

      No, I'm using facts, not rationalization. When you say that humans are naturally herbivores, THAT is rationalizing your predjuces, and using falsehoods to make that rationalization.

      And again you're rationalizing when you say we're "now relying on antibiotics to reduce parasite infestations, something which destroys the natural bacteria flora and has many other side-effects," because it's simply incorrect. It's been years since I took any kind of antibiotic (and they were eyedrops after eye surgery). Plus, your bowel irrigation also destroys the natural bacteria that you need for digestion. Plus antibiotics don't cure worms, they cure bacterial infections and nothing else. If I get e-coli, the disease itself will clean the bowels, albeit painfully, but you know what? In that case, I'm going for the antibiotic.

      The importance of digestions seems to have been forgotten by modern science

      Nonsense.

    12. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by Maritz · · Score: 1

      If you're eating meat, you should question how your bowels look and smell, how much meat is stuck inside there undigested and foul. This is why, when people go veggie, they often smell worse for a good while, until their bodies are cleaned out. You can do bowel cleansing, which every person should do every other year anyways.

      Just like that, bye-bye credibility. Why should 'every person' cleanse their bowel and what method do you suggest for that exactly? Do you have any evidence that it's beneficial? Because I always thought it was... well, a load of old crap.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    13. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "From my own experience"
      Fuck you personal experience, do you have any science?

      "If you're eating meat, you should question how your bowels look and smell, how much meat is stuck inside there undigested and fou"

      Apparently science isn't your friends, and neither is research or bothering to understand the human body.

      Unless you have a clogged intestinal tract, stuff last in your stomach for about 24 hours or so.

      " You can do bowel cleansing, which every person should do every other year anyways."
      NO YOU SHOULD NOT. It's risk with no gain. Specifically risk of a nasty infection since you can flush away the bacteria you need to help you live.

      A very few actual medical conditions may require this, but it's not a fucking hobby.

      And yes, we would slaughter all those cows because there would e nothing else to do for them. Who will feed them? who will volunteer to not use their land for other purposes? Who will pay to feed them?

      You want to be a vegetarian, swell, but stop spreading ignorance and lies.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    14. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "People have been doing bowel cleansing and other cleanses for thousands of years."
      So? That doesn'tr mean it works or is necessary.

      Keep you logical fallacy's out of actual debate, you twad.

      "It is only with recent times people have stopped doing this very natural thing,"

      No, it's not. And no it is NOT USEFUL. this is not opinion, it is a FACT.

      "Besides bowel cleansing has many positive side-effects, like reducing inflamations and making the digestion more effective."
      Another lie.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    15. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      If it were a natural part of human life everyone would be doing it anyway. Also i have never done it and can count the times I've been prescribed antibiotics on one hand.

      It was. The people who were doing it and assisting doing it, were hunted down, tortured and burned as witches and wizards, several centuries ago. We've simply lost the collective knowledge through murder, manipulation, brainwashing and control. I'm not saying the new system is better than the old, but we definately lost much in the process also.

      So you're saying meat eaters who don't do this bowel cleansing thing had serious problems before the advent of antibiotics? bollocks

      It's usually not a life-and-death needful thing to do, but something that enhances health throughout your life.

    16. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      Interesting to note that you don't back up any of your claims with facts, but present it as fact. Also, you don't have any personal experience with it it seems, at least not something you're willing to share. This discussion is pointless as long as you keep your eyes and ears closed.

    17. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by Splab · · Score: 1

      Up until your claim about my internal system you where sounding like you knew what you where talking about.

      Now your whole statement is pretty much useless, because I know that fact alone isn't right and you haven't done your research making your whole argument invalid.

      Also 10 years? Come back when you have data collected over several generations - as a sibling said, we are omnivores, we have evolved to where we are, damned sure not gonna fight what I was meant to do.

    18. Re:It's not that hard to be a lacto-ovo veggie by juhaz · · Score: 1

      If you're eating meat, you should question how your bowels look and smell, how much meat is stuck inside there undigested and foul.

      The epithelium covering the intestines is like the outer layer of skin - it's constantly being replaced, total turnover happens in less than a week. It's impossible for anything to get "stuck" for longer than that unless it's physically too large to pass (and we have teeth to deal with that, last time I checked). Even if you're eating superglue, the cells just die after a few days and anything attached to them goes along with them.

      Whatever comes out when you're "cleansing" is just that - the dead cells of your own digestive tract and the bacteria living there, and there are probably a lot more of them dying than normal since you're torturing your body with starvation and external mechanical irritation in places that were never meant to be exposed to anything but half-digested food. It's no wonder it's foul, but if there is any difference based on diet, it's probably the bacteria - it makes some sense that the gut flora would be slightly different, since different bacteria help with digesting different foods.

      People have been doing a LOT of dumb shit for thousands of years, and they've only recently stopped doing it not because all who practice sticking garden hoses up their ass have all been burned, but because we finally start to actually understand how our bodies work, and can throw the old misconceptions out. And you keep claiming it's "natural", but it's certainly not any kind of innate behavior a human let to grow without any outside influence would exhibit on his own, AND it requires a certain (even if small) amount of technology to do, so just how is it natural? It's something learned, like everything else we do.

  75. seen it happen before around here by Revek · · Score: 1

    I live in southeast Arkansas. As a kid we sometimes saw birds do that. Didn't seem to be news then though. We have also had a large fish kill happen up north in the last couple of days. Probably a disease but I do fell like brains for lunch

    1. Re:seen it happen before around here by wcrowe · · Score: 2

      I've seen it before too, though not on such a large scale, in SW Missouri. In my case it was a flock of mourning dove. Dove are migratory and need a warmer climate. If cold air moves in quickly, like it did in Arkansas over the weekend, the birds can freeze to death quite suddenly. Red winged blackbirds are migratory too. They just cannot take those sudden temperature dips, especially when they are as sharp as those over the weekend.

      I think the fish kill is just coincidental. I do not think the two incidents are related.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
  76. Isn't it obvious? Angry birds. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or, alternately, to paraphrase an "In Soviet Russia..." joke:

    In Arkansas, dropping birds on you!

  77. incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My friend descended from a Siberian tribe. His grandmother died in Siberia because she happened to go out wearing just two or three layers less than you "should". See, it's cold enough over there in my friend's ancestral village that the windows are plastic. Glass would shatter. And despite this, sometimes you want convenience. Like if you're American and you want to get milk, you're tempted to use the SUV to drive two blocks away and save five minutes of walking. Well, she saved five minutes changing out of two or three layers of clothing and suffered from it, due to a tragic weather event. OVer there, the Siberians get these tiny tornadoes that only last a few seconds. They're invisible. But inside of them, the temperature isn't just eighteen below zero, it's like thirty-eight below zero. And the wind is reintroducing that temperature of air at a rate of sometimes around a hundred miles an hour, but confined in a very tight vortex of only three or four feet across due to the nature of convecting currents and their abilities to maintain micro systems, something not very well understood. Being in that tiny cold whirlwind for even a few seconds can cause really horrible physical traumas. She was struck dead by hypothermia by an invisible weather phenomenon, struck dead by a tornado as big around as her sucking down temperatures from the upper atmosphere that were cold enough to lower her core temperature down below dead in only seconds. This sort of thing is a reality, and we can assume that there is plenty under the sun that science doesn't quite comprehend. If this doesn't turn out to be a low-pressure or mega-updraft incident of some kind, then I think we can all safely assume it is a pathogenic or local effect. A bacteria or virus. A radioactive or electromagnetic pulse. At any rate it's anomalous and anybody studying it with interest is probably more intelligent than the average scientists who, based largely on risk assessed values of research grant award futures versus college loan payment rates, side squarely with what is pre-established and therefore never learn anything new and fail to ever address the slightest anomaly whether it challenges their worldview or not.

    read some meteorology, the energy contained in say (not correct numbers) 1x1x1 meter of air at sea level is actialy a bit lower then say 100x100x100 cube of air so high up that it corrospondes to the same amount of air, bring that air down to ground level and it will be compressed, so smaller, so energy will condense, with a higher temperature as a result, so if you suuuuck down air from altitude like that or in that movie perfect winter or whatever, it gets warmer, not colder.

  78. It has to come naturally by Steeltoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is intellectual masturbation.

    "Fact."

    You probably share more genes with alot of Indians and Africans than with your unrelated neighbour.

    All facts and statistics are always abused to suit our own prejudices and preconceptions, even when not intended to, especially then.

    If you can't eat vegetarian, you have probably not had the correct vegetarian meal. Many who "go veggie" have absolutely no clue what kinds of food you must eat.

    Also, you must take the time for the body to clean itself out. You may feel sick for days, weeks or even months, and then you'll be fine. Drinking alot of water between meals etc helps.

    Educate yourself instead. If you personally can't stand it after having tried the real thing, that's fine. Personally, I would have had a hard time if not for friends who went veggie with me over a period of a few years. With friends however, it was fun and empowering. I know not everyone is so lucky.

    It seems to me a bit intellectualish to try it yourself for a short time, with no friends and no support. Like learning martial arts from a book. It's not the real thing. If you want an informed opinion about it, you should of course interview a trusted practitioner instead of building your own houses of cards.

    1. Re:It has to come naturally by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You probably share more genes with alot of Indians and Africans than with your unrelated neighbour.

      First of all, "Africans" means very little since we're all out of Africa. Second, I'm German, Mexican, English, Polish, Norwegian, and French, as well as a crypto-Jew on my Mexican side. That puts the majority of my forebears leaving Africa well long enough ago to not be considered "African".

      I just don't see any reason to be a vegetarian. To me it boils down to some mystical bullshit. We invented the sanctity of life because we were confused. We thought it was necessary if we wanted to construct an argument wherein we would not be valid sources of meat. It is not.

      THIS IS NECESSARY
      Life
      feeds on life
      feeds on life
      feeds on life

      Or put simply, who decides that a chicken has more of a right to live than a carrot? It's all empty-headed bullshit. Eat what is around you, eat what is in season, eat meat when it is plentiful, or you are basically throwing away our most basic technologies in favor of imagination. No aboriginal cultures are strictly vegetarian, probably because any that were died out for lack of food at some point, or were eaten by some of their omnivorous and thus more vigorous neighbors.

      If you want an informed opinion about it, you should of course interview a trusted practitioner instead of building your own houses of cards.

      It is possible for some people to be vegetarians and be healthy. It's simply not an efficient way to live. I have better things to do with my time than graze. I know what shape my teeth are and what kind of stomach I have, and I know I was meant to eat meat. But forcing yourself to vegetarianism is a big wankoff jerkfest anyway.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:It has to come naturally by ffreeloader · · Score: 2

      Good points.

      I was raised as lacto-ovo vegetarian, became a meat eater in my 20's, but now prefer vegetarian food over meat. I eat some meat once in a while, but if I eat much of it I begin to feel pretty poorly. I have something similar to rhuematoid arthritis in my spine, and if I eat much meat(chicken or beef), more than a couple of times a month, my pain levels skyrocket.

      For anyone unacquainted a vegetarian diet to just jump into it with little or no knowledge of all things related to a vegetarian diet it's almost impossible to succeed at it. Even learning how to season vegetarian cooking so that it tastes good takes practice as it is a much different cooking with meat. You have to learn what herbs and spices to use, how to build flavors, etc....

      Then you have to learn what foods contribute which nutrients to your diet. You need to learn the sources of protein and fats, and how to combine them in meals so that you get the appropriate levels all the nutrients you body needs, just as meat eaters should. Once you do learn the fundamentals though it becomes easy and you feel much better than you do on a meat diet. I know I do.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    3. Re:It has to come naturally by Tack · · Score: 1

      Or put simply, who decides that a chicken has more of a right to live than a carrot? It's all empty-headed bullshit.

      I've never been able to relate to the hostility shown by both sides of this issue. To me, it does seem to be a difficult, nuanced moral question. I especially don't understand the naturalistic argument, because in my view this isn't an "is" but an "ought" matter. I think a sensible starting line is whether or not the living thing you're eating has a nervous system, which quite clearly puts carrots and chickens in different camps.

      I'm fairly undecided on this issue, but I can't help but shake the nagging feeling that I have some cognitive dissonance to work through. If you accept evolution (and I assume everyone here does) and you start with the premise that killing humans for food is morally wrong, then you're forced to evaluate the same question throughout the evolutionary tree (or bush, at is were). For those people that accept the premise and are settled on your side of the issue, presumably they have decided that the life of a chicken, or a pig, or a cow, or whatever has sufficiently low value to trade for convenience, nutrition, quality of life, health, etc. And these things will vary by person, admittedly -- in my case I suspect my eating meat is primarily a matter of convenience and quality of life. I doubt I need them to be healthy. But nor do I feel like I'm in a position to criticize those who are decided, except to discourage language like "wankoff jerkfest" used against those who hold differing opinions.

      I'm reminded of Christopher Hitchens' position on abortion. He recognizes that it's a complex problem of spectrum. There can be no obvious line drawn through foetal development where you can say it's unambiguously morally ok to abort, so he's simply opposed to abortion at any stage for that reason (setting aside the mitigating factors like health risks, whether incest or rape was involved, etc.). To me, the moral question of meat-eating is similar non-obvious spectrum.

    4. Re:It has to come naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > You may feel sick for days, weeks or even months, and then you'll be fine.

      "You'll feel horrible for months, but it's good for you, I insist!" is something that will not get your argument any credibility.

    5. Re:It has to come naturally by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > I just don't see any reason to be a vegetarian. To me it boils down to some mystical bullshit.

      Calling something "bullshit" just because you don't understand it shows a complete lack of intellect and maturity. If you don't want to be a pseudo-skeptic, may I suggest being a honest skeptical instead? At least then you would have the balls to admit that you don't know what the big deal is. The first stage of true knowledge is admitting you don't really know.

      Sorry to sound like a dick, but just because you are ignorant of the differences between the mineral, plant, animal, and human consciousness doesn't mean everyone is.

      There are health reasons, there are moral reasons, there are religious reasons, and most importantly there are spiritual reasons.

      If none of them work for you, so what??

      As a vegetarian I couldn't give a fuck what you eat -- I am more curious in _why_. Personally I would hope someday that you become fully consciousness enough to question why you live the life you do, but that is between you and your Higher Self. You have shown zero interest in understanding that there just _might_ be more to the subject that you so off-handily dismiss. In this regards, you are correct, _for you_ there is little point in vegetarianism.

      Regards

    6. Re:It has to come naturally by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      I'm not forcing myself to be veggie. It's been a huge bonus in my life in so many ways I cannot even begin to count them.

      Why is me being veggie, and correcting flawed assumptions, so inflamatory to you? I don't restrict your diet or ridicule it. Eat what you want.

      If you don't see the sanctity of life, it's because your eyes are closed my friend. Ok, if you want to discover it: Cut off all contact with your friends, coworkers and family. Move to another country. Try to get by on whatever is given to you or whatever work you can find.

      It may open your eyes a bit.

    7. Re:It has to come naturally by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      To any issue there are those who resort to hostility when their arguments have run out. However, regarding vegetarism, it seems to me the main hostility is mainly on the "skeptic" side. When veggies are hostile, it is mainly immature and emotional brats who just cannot help condemning everyone but themselves (typical projection issue). Now, you can imagine how the "so-called rational skeptics" who resort to just the same antics are really observed.. Not so logical anymore, huh, Mr. Data?

      Both camps are in a more objective reality closed-minded, "believers" and "die-hard skeptics" alike. Mature people find a way to live with both of them.

      If you ask me, if you feel like you "ought", you have not really decided yet. Better to skip the "ought" and live in peace.

    8. Re:It has to come naturally by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      I'd describe a lot of adult vegans as "passive-aggressive" in their stance. I respect vegetarianism and veganism in theory: in practice, a lot of Western vegans strike me almost as caricatures of Nietzsche's "politics of ressentiment," in their elevation of empathy and compassion over all other possible values. Perhaps that is the value of veganism: it is the mechanism by which that value devalues itself, when it becomes an impossibility.

    9. Re:It has to come naturally by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      I'm not vegan, so I wouldn't know. But oh yeah, I've met some of those types! ;)

      However, maybe it's just an issue of having different value sets? What then makes sense to one, may seem ridiculous or overboard by another. Ie. veganism seems way overboard to me, and it doesn't even look healthy. However, it may BE completely rational to someone with a different value-set.

      In most such cases, when I get to know the people beyond the initial impressions, the prejudice wears off and I'm able to relate more closer to them than I thought I'd be able to. But some people I just "click with" much more easily than others, and usually, we share the same value-set..

    10. Re:It has to come naturally by BoogieChile · · Score: 1

      Actually, just to keep this in focus here, it doesn't take a lot of genetic difference to cause this.

      Fact: Lactose Intolerance.

      Ooo, Ooo! - Fact:Broccoli haters!

    11. Re:It has to come naturally by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Sorry to sound like a dick, but just because you are ignorant of the differences between the mineral, plant, animal, and human consciousness doesn't mean everyone is.

      You don't sound like a dick, you sound like a tripping hippie dipshit.

      Personally I would hope someday that you become fully consciousness enough to question why you live the life you do, but that is between you and your Higher Self.

      I think you're the one getting higher here.

      In this regards, you are correct, _for you_ there is little point in vegetarianism.

      Ahh, so there is the dehumanization. I was waiting. It's what all vegetarians really want.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:It has to come naturally by oldspewey · · Score: 1

      Ahh, so there is the dehumanization. I was waiting. It's what all vegetarians really want.

      I think you're confusing militant, political vegans with people who happen to choose a vegetarian lifestyle for their own personal reasons. I'm an omnivore, but I know lots of vegetarians (some of them very closely) who frankly don't give a shit what you eat or what I eat. They aren't looking to dehumanize anyone. They are looking - and this is literally all they are looking for - to have themselves a decent meal that suits their preferences.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    13. Re:It has to come naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but my "unrelated first neighbour" IS Indian... as is my next cubicle colleague...

    14. Re:It has to come naturally by Golddess · · Score: 1

      It's simply not an efficient way to live.

      First off, I am a carnivore. I love meat, and nothing will ever change that.

      That said, depends on what one is considering when one considers efficiency. From a transfer of energy stand-point, it is far more efficient to eat a salad than it is the cow who has been eating grass all its life.

      Or put another way, for the months of food you put into the cow, you only get a week or two back out.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    15. Re:It has to come naturally by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > You don't sound like a dick, you sound like a tripping hippie dipshit.
      > I think you're the one getting higher here.

      I don't do drugs of any kind, so I would recommend not making assumptions if you don't want to look like a fool.

      >> In this regards, you are correct, _for you_ there is little point in vegetarianism.
      > Ahh, so there is the dehumanization. I was waiting.

      Methinks you need to re-read the above in context. Just because you have found something that doesn't work for _you_, doesn't imply that it won't/doesn't work for _others_. That was the point.

      > It's what all vegetarians really want.

      You so now you are speaking for _all_ vegetarians !? Who died and made you their spokesperson?

      Vegetarians range from the ultra-quiet that never proselytize all the way to those that can't stop spewing their propaganda -- just like the same in any other group.

      Cheers

    16. Re:It has to come naturally by geekoid · · Score: 1

      But facts can be ferreted down and shown or logical refuted. statistics is harder, mostly because people who use then in these arguments use them to support nonsense, or to move a goal post.

      Of course if properly presented, statistics can be looked and and be given merit based on actual logical thought.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:It has to come naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i was a vegetarian for 5 years, what i learned from the experience is that i have a digestive abnormality that makes me incapable of properly digesting plant proteins, by the logic of many "flag waving vegetarians" as i call them, or peta i should just curl up and die of a heart attack since the human heart needs AT LEAST 20 grams of protein a day in order to suport healthy muscle function.
      so screw peta and screw the vegetarians and vegans who try and FORCE they're ideology on others they are no better than hellfire and brimstone Xtians , hey peta even suports firebombing!

    18. Re:It has to come naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With friends however, it was fun and empowering.

      Go sniff your own farts hippy.

  79. Get over it by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

    Anything that makes humans behave more like humans and not animals, is good in my book. Our society would've been completely different if not for Christianity (in conjunction with of course Greek and French philosophers).

    High ideals can lift us up, or pervert our thinking. The same is true for low ideals. Only mature people are able to see this.

    Both believers and sceptics are the worst when they assume a "holier than thou" attitude and think they've all the answers, when often they are stuck on only one side of the coin.

    1. Re:Get over it by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Christianity? Crusades, witch trials, the reformation, need I go on? Are you serious? Thanks to Christianity, a few hundred years ago espousing an opinion such as "I think the stars might be suns just like ours" would get you burned alive (Giordano Bruno). To suggest that Christianity 'civilised' people or made them more compassionate is, to me, ludicrous. The modern moral zeitgeist is superior ethically to the bible (in which you can find detailed instructions on keeping slaves in such as way as to stay on God's good side).

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  80. Eve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was going to say Blackbirds falling from the sky is a regular sight in EVE Online.

  81. And a few dictionary entries... by eleuthero · · Score: 1
    humane
    /hyumen or, often, yu-/ Show Spelled[hyoo-meyn or, often, yoo-] Show IPA
    –adjective

    1. characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy for people and animals, esp. for the suffering or distressed: humane treatment of horses.

    2. of or pertaining to humanistic studies.

    Origin: orig. stress var. of human, restricted to above senses from 18th century; cf. germane, german
    —Related forms

    humanely, adverb

    humaneness, noun

    overhumane, adjective

    unhumane, adjective

    unhumanely, adverb

    unhumaneness, noun

    —Can be confused: human, humane (see synonym and pronunciation notes at human).

    —Synonyms

    1. merciful, kind, kindly, kindhearted, tender, compassionate, gentle, sympathetic; benevolent, benignant, charitable. See human.

    —Antonyms

    1. brutal.

    taken from...dictionary.com (Random House Dictionary). Looking up "human" yields acting out of human nature as a potential synonym... which would mean that they have a surprisingly positive outlook on human nature, but again, this is a point of potential confusion as noted in the dictionary entry on "humane" (note the origin is from a sound alike word ("germane") and likely results from 19th century attitudes centered in humanism (not that these were always kind or merciful but liked to be seen as such at least some of the time apparently).

  82. Fireworks? by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    No doubt they'll need to do some kind of necropsy to find out what is really going on here. But I have to say that I found the "they died of fright from fireworks" to be almost laughably unconvincing. I hunt a lot, and almost exclusively for ducks and geese. Most recently, over the week between Christmas and New Years, I participated in a couple large group hunts, in which up to seven of us were in a field for geese. As you might expect, this activity involved quite a lot of banging away with large and very loud shotguns. And while a number of geese did drop dead, in every case it was due to actually getting shot. I've also hunted with blackbirds around, and they didn't drop dead from fright when I shot either - they just flew away.

    Again, no doubt tests are going to have to be done to find out what happened. But the idea that blackbirds are such delicate flowers that hearing loud noises is enough to kill them? I don't think so.

  83. Blackbird behavior by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    If blackbirds in my part of the world are anything to go by, they don't flock much, at least not in large numbers like other birds. So several thousand blackbirds falling out of the sky in the same area is just strange to me, but blackbirds elsewhere could behave differently?

    Not sure where you live, but it does seem to be the case that blackbirds behave differently depending on where they live:

    Red-winged Blackbirds in the northern reaches of the range are migratory, spending winters in the southern United States and Central America. Migration begins in September or October, but occasionally as early as August. In western and middle America, populations are generally non-migratory.

    More at Wikipedia.

    For what it's worth, I've seen these things in huge flocks in winter. The rest of the year they're fairly solitary.

  84. The Book of Revelation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's starting to happen.

  85. I live very close to this area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We were having horrible storms around the same time. We had a very mild day where the temperature hit 70F. This warm of a day coming right after a very cold day always brings us very strong thunderstorms and usually tornadoes.

    Along with these birds, six people also died in tornadoes and several more were injured. There was a massive amount of destruction from these storms and tornadoes.

    I would assume the birds died from weather related reasons.

  86. Not quite accurate by I8TheWorm · · Score: 3, Informative

    Erm, apparently there was physical trauma (see here and here). They're still guessing, but leaning towards stress from fireworks, although lightening or hail haven't been ruled out.

    This is far from the first time anything like this has been recorded.

    --
    Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
  87. Blackbirds falling out of the sky made me think of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blackbirds falling out of the sky! I thought only a few blackbirds were lost. But then I realised that they weren't talking about this kind of blackbird.

  88. clone has 2 registered user accounts here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's this I heard about you using two or more registered user accounts here on slashdot, clone? clone53421 (1310749) and this one clone52431 (1805862)??

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1927208&cid=34689212

    It also appears that your big trolling mouth and skimming got you into a jam again in that URL above, and you ran away. How embarassing for you clone!

  89. clone whats this about your 2 /. reg'd accts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's this I heard about you using two or more registered user accounts here on slashdot, clone? clone53421 (1310749) and this one clone52431 (1805862)??

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1927208&cid=34689212

    It also appears that your big trolling mouth and skimming got you into a jam again in that URL above, and you ran away.

    How embarassing for you clone...

  90. Clone the troll keeps 2 registered /. accounts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's this I heard about you using two or more registered user accounts here on slashdot, clone? clone53421 (1310749) and this one clone52431 (1805862)??

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1927208&cid=34689212

    It also appears that your big trolling mouth and skimming got you into a jam again in that URL above, and you ran away.

    How utterly embarassing for you clone!

  91. clone caught using 2 diff. /. registered accounts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's this I heard about you using two or more registered user accounts here on slashdot, clone? clone53421 (1310749) and this one clone52431 (1805862)??

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1927208&cid=34689212

    It also appears that your big trolling mouth and skimming got you into a jam again in that URL above, and you ran away.

    How utterly embarassing for you clone...!

  92. Is it humane to use 2 /. accounts, clone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's this I heard about you using two or more registered user accounts here on slashdot, clone? clone53421 (1310749) and this one clone52431 (1805862)??

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1927208&cid=34689212

    It also appears that your big trolling mouth and skimming got you into a jam again in that URL above, and you ran away.

    How totally embarassing for you clone!

  93. clone uses 2 diff. /. reg'd accounts 4 trolling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's this I heard about you using two or more registered user accounts here on slashdot, clone? clone53421 (1310749) and this one clone52431 (1805862)??

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1927208&cid=34689212

    It also appears that your big trolling mouth and skimming got you into a jam again in that URL above, and you ran away.

    How completely, utterly embarassing for you clone!

  94. Re:clone the PROVEN TROLL w/ 2 reg'd /. accounts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's this I hear about Alexander Peter Kowalski the malware author?

    http://www.google.com/search?q=apkapp2backgrounddaemonprocessengine.exe

  95. You heard wrong, & from a DISREPUTABLE source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From my +5 Upward Modded post on Computer Associates, above (CA's the source of that libel of myself):

    ---

    CA's disreputable - See their "ethics" in accounting practices which they got busted for:

    PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:

    "Customers know Computer Associates - and, these days, for all the wrong reasons. Just as the company was beginning to shed its reputation as a home for legacy software products that carried an inflated price tag, it was rocked by a series of accounting scandals. An on-going FBI fraud inquiry and investigations by the US Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission have left it reeling, with a power vacuum at the top as over a dozen senior executives have left or been sacked. The allegations centre on internal accounting and sales activities in the years around the turn of the century, and involve the movement of revenues between quarters and product areas, and consequently, the mis-statement of financial results."

    FROM -> http://www.information-age.com/articles/290656/the-information-age-interview.thtml

    APK

    P.S.=> CA also listed a freeware of mine as a "malware", falsely, which was written to help out a fellow forums person I knew at NTCompatible years ago, because he had an OLD version of Apache server on Windows which would not run as a tooltray icon while minimized & it was not implemented as a service he told me (that was so it was not visible onscreen and ran "in the background transparently" which most webservers now, do).

    So, in good faith/being a "good neighbor", I wrote it up for he (it's NOT commandline argv/argc parameterizeable either, so it's NOT scriptable) in GUI form (only 2-3 lines of code & works via C/C++ type invisible "spawn" type parameterizations).

    Next thing I know? It's out online being classed as a "malware" (1 of around 40 freeware apps I've done over time that did VERY well & were featured in respected publications in good reviews in reputable & respected publications like "Windows IT Pro" Magazine (it was Windows NT Mag back then in the 1990's - early 21st century) & others of like ilk).

    Apps that can be used "both ways" get 'victimized' this way (which is like PING via "ping of death")...

    OR

    Tools from NIRSOFT (good stuff) who also gets a "bad rap" from the likes of CA!

    OR

    SysInternals even too (yes, even Dr. Mark Russinovich has had this happen to he (e.g. pstools) as it has myself & Nir Sofer of NIRSOFT) have tools that can be used "for the good" or "the bad", depending on WHO is using them & what they're up to (like a gun, guns don't murder people - other people do)).

    So, then I took CA's 21 point removal test & passed EVERY SINGLE QUESTION without fail no less, & they would not remove it (but, they had to put it down to "Zero Threat Levels")...

    I did that on the advice of an attorney (John Lowe of Hiscock & Barclay).

    Afterwards when I told the attorney these results, he told me "Yes, you have a WINNING CASE for libel/defamation of character" etc. "and it's worth approx. $150,000 U.S. Dollars"!

    So, to that, I said:

    "Well, let's do it then on a 33.3% of the take for you as payment" (keeps attorneys 'motivated' doing it that way, plus, it's no init. money down for retainers etc./et al).

    Then, he replied "I can't do this case!" I was like "WHY?!?" & he said "Because larger companies have fleets of attorneys that will 'drag it out' for over a decade and by the time you collect, which you would? The overall COST of doing this would exceed your reward!"...

    This is how the REAL world works, if you're not a "Financial Goliath" in other words - there is NO "justice", only money (and if you've got enough to take on the likes of these companies, then, & ONLY THEN, do you get real justice)... makes me ill, because the likes of CA know this, & abuse it! ap

  96. Arkansas is like anywhere else by gottabeme · · Score: 1

    Arkansas is no different than any other place in the U.S. You can find rednecks, hicks, and hillbillies, as well as intelligent, educated, even wealthy people in every state in the Union. It's just silly to make "Arkansaw" jokes; not even funny. Urban Arkansas is like urban anywhere, and rural Arkansas is like rural anywhere.

    At least try to be creative.

    --
    "Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
    1. Re:Arkansas is like anywhere else by kehren77 · · Score: 1

      Arkansas is no different than any other place in the U.S. You can find rednecks, hicks, and hillbillies, as well as intelligent, educated, even wealthy people in every state in the Union. It's just silly to make "Arkansaw" jokes; not even funny. Urban Arkansas is like urban anywhere, and rural Arkansas is like rural anywhere.

      At least try to be creative.

      I think you mixed that up a bit, let me correct it. Urban Arkansas is like urban Wisconsin. It is nothing like LA, New York, Detroit, etc...

      I don't doubt that you will find of mix of people in each state, be they hicks, rednecks, hillbillies, intelligent, educated, or wealthy. The difference from state to state is the concentration of each group. Until Arkansas decides to improve it's education system so that it isn't one of the lowest in the country, it will have to learn to put up with people assuming it's full of morons.

      Arkansas could also loose their image of being filled with racists if they started taking down some of the Confederate memorials. I know the south loves to claim those are there to commemorate the lives lost fighting for state's rights. But let's be honest, they were fighting for the state's right to allow one person to own another.

  97. clone53421 (1310749) = clone52431 (1805862)? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See how clone used his 53421 clone account to try to 'defend' the 53421 alternate registered one here, below next:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1928730&cid=34702996:

    HERE IS A DIRECT QUOTE:

    ---

    "Mmm, yeah, niggard me harder, you filthy nigger you!" - by clone53421 (1310749) on Wednesday December 29, @03:40PM (#34702996) Journal

    ---

    (You have some "StRaNgE PhAnTaSiEs" to say the least, clone - seek professional help!)

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO, busted... badly & on ALL accounts noted above... too easy! apk

  98. You're a LOT OF TALK, but NO ACTION... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1932290&cid=34749168 See you there, backup your bullshit - , troll.

    APK

    P.S.=> What am I saying? He won't show & prove his statements, trollish though they are + without any substance... he'll run, like every troll does, when confronted... apk

    1. Re:You're a LOT OF TALK, but NO ACTION... apk by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1932290&cid=34749168 See you there, backup your bullshit - , troll.

      APK

      P.S.=> What am I saying? He won't show & prove his statements, trollish though they are + without any substance... he'll run, like every troll does, when confronted... apk

      Ha ha ha. If I had the mod points I'd mod you funny. I thought you were taking on Bruce Schnier, whipped him already have you? I don't think you'd even try - despite your boast "I'd take him on, on HOSTS files & layered security's effectiveness, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!"

      Follow me all you like (in the virtual world) but I'm not going to be your "best pal" you sick fuck ;-p

      Cue the "got no life" ad hominem" hyprocrisy - like I'm stalking you (from in front).

  99. This happened in Australia a couple years back by bsercombe72 · · Score: 1

    The culprit proved to be train shipments of lead carbonate that were uncovered combined with windy weather that made the lead airborne. Might be worth checking the dead birds for lead poisoning. "The Report concluded that the deaths of the 9500 native birds in December 2006 and March 2007 resulted from lead poisoning from Magellan Metals lead carbonate concentrate which had been handled by the Esperance Port Authority from April 2005 until March 2007. A quarter of the children under 5 years of age that were tested showed a blood lead level over 5 g/dL. Whilst this is not as high as other communities affected by lead pollution, it certainly shows an impact from lead contamination."

  100. Maybe they're just sleeping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they're still asleep and will wake up on Jan 3 when their iPhone alarms start working again.

    OR I wonder if maybe mother Earth was just playing a massive game of Angry Birds.

  101. That would conflict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with this awesome Canadian study proving that seeing meat calms you down.

  102. Re:Voice Recognition by Sulphur · · Score: 1

    A little girl walks into the Ladies room in a seafood restaurant.

    When someone farts, she says "Mama is that you."

  103. Blackbirds falling out of the sky made me think of by portionpack · · Score: 1

    The up lifting winds in a tornado may have caused this. It's just like thunderstorms with rain falling which ascend and descend many times. Depending what latitude either rain or snow will fall to ground.

  104. Not the only place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Marshall County Kentucky also reported dead birds. From the reporting on the local television station WPSD, it happened just shortly before Arkansas. Normal west to east weather patterns and timing considered, we should look into other explanations.

  105. How to make it happen around here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What I want to do is figure out how to make this happen to the flocks of blackbirds around here.

  106. What may have killed the birds by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

    Since there was more than one species, and as well other birds not in the exact same proximity to the fireworks, etc. I would guess that what killed them was toxic clouds, either from industrial chimneys or other noxius gases. The birds could not fly above or below and therefore expired from gas poisoning.

    --
    Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  107. Damaged Goods: You're a big talking coward. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Follow me all you like (in the virtual world) but I'm not going to be your "best pal" you sick fuck ;-p" - by damaged_goods (1690438) on Wednesday January 05, @09:06AM (#34764410)

    You sure "talk a big game", but when it came RIGHT DOWN TO IT? You couldn't show a single instance where someone here (or elsewhere) has "gotten the better of me", on topic & technically speaking, here on these forums... despite your BIG MOUTH stating this:

    "Your claims have been been shown as worthless dozens of times by people whose opinions I find worthy of respect." - by damaged_sectors (1690438) on Monday January 03, @06:23PM (#34748892)

    FROM - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1932290&cid=34749168

    YOU? YOU ARE A LOT OF TALK, & NO ACTION...

    APK

    P.S.=> In other words, you're known as a bullshitter/liar - a dishonorable little SCUMBAG... apk

  108. the point is you are a sicko, clone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1929880&cid=34773824 where I see you have committed felonious acts against others here clone (or should I say, Stephen Alongi?)

    1. Re:the point is you are a sicko, clone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      where I see you have committed felonious acts against others here

      You don't see that at all. You see unfounded, unproven accusations and nothing else.

    2. Re:the point is you are a sicko, clone by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      APK, I’m considering going to the police. Those allegations are libelous and I suggest you back off.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    3. Re:the point is you are a sicko, clone by MichaelKristopeit400 · · Score: 0
      you want to tell them about the multiple criminal felonies you committed to bring upon such justice, or should i?

      clone53421 is STEPHEN ALONGI

      stephen alongi is a multiple criminal felon.

      stephen alongi has conspired to commit my murder.

      stephen alongi has stolen my possessions and redistributed them with calls for my murderous execution.

      JUSTICE IS COMING.

    4. Re:the point is you are a sicko, clone by MichaelKristopeit400 · · Score: 0
      are you going to tell the police about your ".40" that you claim you are waiting for me with? are you going to tell them the IP address, which geolocates to the city you live in, which was used to access my personal server to steal my personal property and redistribute it with attached calls for my murderous execution? do you understand what criminal conspiracy is? you are putting on a class on criminal copyright infringement on this very thread. you admitted what you've done and justified it as "parody". i offer another parody: if you present yourself to me, i will kill you with fire.

      cower behind your chosen pseudonym some more, feeb.

      you're completely pathetic.

      clone53421 is STEPHEN ALONGI

      stephen alongi is a multiple criminal felon.

      stephen alongi has conspired to commit my murder.

      stephen alongi has stolen my possessions and redistributed them with calls for my murderous execution.

      JUSTICE IS COMING.

    5. Re:the point is you are a sicko, clone by MichaelKristopeit400 · · Score: 0
      i'm considering if that was an admission of your inability to deal with your personal problems which you alone have created.

      cower behind your chosen pseudonym some more, feeb.

      reload your ".40" and "wait" behind your closed door.

      you're completely pathetic.

      clone53421 is STEPHEN ALONGI

      stephen alongi is a multiple criminal felon.

      stephen alongi has conspired to commit my murder.

      stephen alongi has stolen my possessions and redistributed them with calls for my murderous execution.

      JUSTICE IS COMING.

  109. White nosed virus. Killed lots of Northeast Bats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember the Bats in the Northeast, dropping dead from white nosed virus? It was a fungus that grew under thier noses. What is killing these birds today? It's not any fireworks! It's something else. PHD's need to study this quick, in case it speads to other birds and knock off the eco. system. I think it's important. Birds do more for us than most people think!

  110. There's no APK there. What are you talking about?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    APK, I'm considering going to the police. Those allegations are libelous and I suggest you back off.

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1929880&cid=34773824

    "i have on multiple occasions formally accused you of federal felony copyright violations and conspiracy to commit murder. you're an ignorant hypocrite. you stole my photographs and redistributed them unaltered with a call for my murder attached.

    you are most certainly a felon. JUSTICE IS COMING. your ".40" that you claim you'll be waiting with will not be as effective as it is in your psychotic dreams.

    cower some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic." by MichaelKristopeit347 (1968128)
    on Thursday January 06, @01:16AM (#34773824)

    That doesn't look good for you clone. Cracking under the pressure it looks like. The poster there is not APK. It's another person MichaelKristopeit347 (1968128).

  111. Reality blip by Geminii · · Score: 1

    Unexpected Branch to Fishkill