Aussie City Braces For Worst Flood In 118 Years

aesoteric writes "As parts of the Australian state of Queensland either experience or prepare for the worst floods to ravage the state in over 100 years, Australia's techies have taken it upon themselves to keep communications services on as the crisis unfolds. One man is mirroring flood information from a faltering Brisbane City Council website, and others have opened WiFi channels in their neighbourhood whilst mobile signal gets choked. But there is major damage to telco networks — at least one major fibre link has been severed by flood waters, telephone exchanges have been knocked offline and cell towers put on battery or generator back-up (or offline altogether). On a sombre note, the floods have claimed 10 lives, including children, and 78 people are still missing after facing a torrent of water up to 8 metres (26 feet) high."

Comments

Please Donate

[H0D_G]

The Queensland Government has set up a disaster relief fund for donations

http://www.qld.gov.au/floods/donate.html

Please Give.

Re:Please Donate

[Pojut]

I'm doing my part!

But no, seriously...I donated $15. Do it, people...what's going on down there is affecting everyone. I know that seems like an obvious thing to say, but it's true: no one is being spared from this disaster. "If we all do a little, we all do a lot."

Re:Please Donate

[Moryath]

It's awesome to see techies and everyone else working to do their part.

What I find actually uplifting is this part: On a sombre note, the floods have claimed 10 lives, including children, and 78 people are still missing after facing a torrent of water up to 8 metres (26 feet) high."

Think about that number and compare it with the number of dead and missing from many "classical" disasters - for floods, the usual death count is in the multiple thousands. Roughly 3000 in the monsoon floods for the past few incidents in Asia, for instance.

It's a tragedy when people die in a natural disaster, but if the death count is below 100, they did a great job preparing and minimizing casualties!

Re:Please Donate

[xaxa]

The Queensland Government has set up a disaster relief fund for donations

http://www.qld.gov.au/floods/donate.html

Please Give.

Do they really need the money? Australia is a rich country, no one is going to go hungry as a result of this flood, and those who've lost their homes will be housed -- in the worst case -- by the government.

I think a donation to rebuilding flooded areas in Pakistan would achieve more.

Re:Please Donate

[chomsky68]

$50 from me.

Re:Please Donate

[antifoidulus]

Thats not really a very good comparison, Australia has one of the lowest population densities on the planet, even the cities aren't anywhere near as dense as those in places like Indonesia and Bangladesh. Comparing just the sheer # of casualties isn't a very good way to judge disaster preparedness per se.

Re:Please Donate

[Cimexus]

Very true. Australia is a first world country with good warning systems etc. so you would expect death tolls to be lower than in developing nations. (Having said that, most of the '78 missing' are unfortunately likely to be dead too - the flooding in Toowoomba was so quick that people were washed away before they knew what was happening and may have ended up many, many miles downstream, so it will not be until the water subsides that the true toll will be known).

There's one other thing about the low death toll that has nothing to do with preparation though. Australia is simply not as densely populated as the places you hear about with the multi-thousand death tolls. It's a huge, US-sized continent, with a tiny population. So just due to pure probability, most natural disasters affect rural areas and small towns. Casulaties are therefore usually low.

That's about to change though - the water is now heading out towards the coast, directly through Brisbane. Unlike the other places affected, this is a large, multi-million-person city. Now the flooding there will be a gradual 'river flood' over the next few days (not a flash flood like in Toowoomba), so people do have adequate time to get themselves to safety. But the ~impact~ of it will be immense just due to the fact it is hitting one of Australia's rare densely populated areas. I hope we get away with minimal casualties, but the economic cost will be staggering: so many roads, cars, bridges, telephone poles, signs, bits of telecomms infrastructure and all the other trappings that go with a large city will be washed away. It will be enough to put at least a $15 billion dent in the economy. And that's before we consider the private cost to individuals: it is expected ~9000 homes will be submerged in Brisbane by Thursday. Many of these people won't have flood insurance.

Re:Please Donate

[timholman]

I think a donation to rebuilding flooded areas in Pakistan would achieve more.

A donation to rebuild flooded areas in Pakistan will almost certainly wind up in the pockets of a corrupt government official or anti-Western mullah.

Australia may be a wealthy country in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn't mean that individuals affected by the flooding can't use some additional help. And unlike Pakistan, your donation to Australian flood relief has an infinitely greater chance of actually making to the people affected by the disaster.

Re:Please Donate

[dkleinsc]

Do they really need the money? Australia is a rich country, no one is going to go hungry as a result of this flood, and those who've lost their homes will be housed -- in the worst case -- by the government.

Yes, I'm sure the head of the Australian emergency management agency will do a heckuva job.

Re:Please Donate

[srealm]

That said, it is somewhat true. The first world status of Australia means the communications in general (including TV news and such) and disaster warning systems are much more advanced. And more of the population is able to get up-to-date information very quickly and thus warnings can actually have an impact. Population density does play a part, especially since so far the flooding has not hit a major city, and the overwhelming majority of the population IS in the top 5 cities - but not as much as the infrastructure in place.

Plus, Australians are now less likely to stubbornly stay in their house when they've been told a natural disaster is bearing down upon them. A hard lesson learned in a country where natural disasters are frequent (most often in the form of bush fires). The most recent lesson being the 2009 fires in Victoria. Course, that doesn't stop people being stupid and trying to drive through flood waters, but at least they knew not to stay in their home and drown in there.

Re:Please Donate

[FriendlyLurker]

Apart from being a rich state within a rich country: Do they deserve donation money - or is this a classic case of reap what you sow - privatizing profits and socializing losses? Australia and especially conservative Queenslanders are amongst the staunchest climate change denialists out there (from link: "There's been a big swing back towards climate change denialists..."). Further, Queensland is a massive coal exporter - and more than happy to fuel dirty-coal burning both in Australia or at export sites the world over, all to make a quick buck. The costs of this flood will be minuscule compared to the Queensland coal industries profits:

In 2009, the [Queensland] state’s 52 coal mines produced a record 195 million tonnes of coal, generating $33.2 billion in export revenue. Queensland is a major player in the international coal market, exporting 168 Mt of coal in 2009 that accounted for 20% of the global trade. The industry generated $3.22 billion in coal royalties, accounting for 9% of the total income of the Queensland Government for the 2008-09 financial year.

Australian media is divided up amongst a few powerful players (Murdoch included) that don't want any meaningful public debate of climate change. For example most Australians are completely unaware of Australia complacency in the farce that is the "Copenhagen accord" on climate change as exposed by Wikileaks

Re:Please Donate

[realityimpaired]

Ask the people in New Orleans. Parts of that city still haven't been rebuilt, and it's been 6 years since Katrina.

Admittedly, Australia appears to be a much better-managed country, but just because it's a rich country doesn't mean that money won't be needed to help rebuild. Though I'm also thinking that there's likely to be more impetus to rebuild in Aus, too.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes! Yes! Burn, er... drown the heretics!

Re:Please Donate

[Cimexus]

No offence but that scenario would never happen in AU. Good efforts will be made to rebuild, just as they have been in every previous disaster (Australia is pretty accustomed to major floods, cyclones and fires). Australian cities are generally in a much better state of upkeep than in the US even before a disaster hits. (I'm not saying this in an inflammatory manner, but there is a LOT of urban decay in some places in the US, particularly the downtowns of rust belt/midwestern cities like Detroit.)

As an aside I am appalled that New Orleans is still in the state it's in. I'm an Australian but married an American and spend a good portion of my time in the US now. I cannot understand why the US seems to be such a nation of contrasts: how can a country which is wealthy and mostly filled with good infrastructure seemingly ignore such disrepair and decay in a major city? I'm pretty sure if a similar event happened to Boston or LA or Manhattan that it would have been rebuilt years ago. It's almost like different places in the US act are treated according to completely different rules or something ...

Re:Please Donate

[Kell Bengal]

Thing is, Australia also has the highest urbanisation rate, with 90% of our population in cities. Floods rarely kill people in the country, but would be a colossal disaster in the city. Fortunately, almost all of our cities are on the coast and flood waters simply run off into the sea.

Now, when the sea levels rise, that's another story altogether...

Re:Please Donate

[ancienthart]

While climate change is definitely happening, this current flood is not exactly unique in the history of Australia, just the worst that a whole generation has seen. http://www.bom.gov.au/hydro/flood/qld/fld_history/index.shtml Australia just simply has a history of flooding and droughts. It's up to you to personally decide if these people who have lost their homes, cars, possessions, and I might point out ALL their Christmas presents, 'deserve' donation money.

Re:Please Donate

[chomsky68]

No offence but that scenario would never happen in AU. Good efforts will be made to rebuild, just as they have been in every previous disaster (Australia is pretty accustomed to major floods, cyclones and fires).

Long live the aussie mateship!

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir and the climate change alarmists like you are the very reason I'm very skeptical of man-made climate change.

That's incredibly dumb.

Re:Please Donate

[Gadget_Guy]

Do they deserve donation money - or is this a classic case of reap what you sow - privatizing profits and socializing losses? Australia and especially conservative Queenslanders are amongst the staunchest climate change denialists [uq.edu.au] out there (from link: "There's been a big swing back towards climate change denialists...").

Wow. This reminds me of seeing the TV footage of people dancing in the streets when the twin towers came down. Do you really believe that the people affected by these floods deserved it? Is this God smiting the wicked people of the world?

I certainly believe that man causes climate change, but I put my feelings on this matter aside and feel sympathy for the thousands of people who have had their lives turned upside down. It is called being human.

Re:Please Donate

[tlhIngan]

What the hell has climate change got to do with this? Do you blame every flood, drought, heat wave and cold snap on climate change? I bet if the weather was completely average you'd say that was uncanny and blame it on climate change too.

I believe in climate change (and indeed AGW, but skeptical of current models) but please can we have some rigour? This is weather, not climate.

While true, the big issue with climate change is it will make the weather more extreme - colder winters and hotter summers, and events like floods, hurricanes, etc. will become more frequent and higher in intensity. The problem is trying to attribute this as either a 100 year flood, or possibly a side effect of climate change (i.e., the flooding would've happened, but maybe it'll be less intense).

The big problem is, there's no way to tell.

Re:Please Donate

[dilberito]

Anyone with some sensibility would understand that there are people of all persuasions in any population. Unfortunately in Queensland, the mining industry is king. It truly is despicable, I do agree. That is not the case in, say, Tasmania, where the environmental movement has enough power to veto most anything which has the potential to damage the environment. In any case, we live in a global society. Australia is but one of many, many countries who need to clean up their act. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of innocent victims of events such as these will continue to be, from both poor and rich countries alike. Stop pointing the finger and start doing something to make a difference. Like voting in decent politicians in your country of citizenship and like donating to victims of natural disasters, using your brain to decide whether you feel a particular donation is likely to make a positive impact. By the way, I really do agree with FriendlyLurker, below. But there are real people (and animals) involved. And also, as FriendlyLurker points out, Queensland is a massive coal exporter, which implies that export sites are every bit as willing to burn that coal. This is not a problem that lies solely with Queensland - it's a problem that lies with most countries on the planet. Producers and consumers are all responsible for continued use of coal.

Re:Please Donate

[HaZardman27]

You sir and the climate change alarmists like you are the very reason I'm very skeptical of man-made climate change.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong about your skepticism, however your reasons for such skepticism seem a bit crazy.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

For example most Australians are completely unaware of Australia complacency in the farce that is the "Copenhagen accord" on climate change as exposed by Wikileaks

Quite off-topic - but I don't see how that link matches up with anything in the paragraph you've written. The article at that link is about the bullying and spying tactics that the US were engaged in to try and push through the Copenhagen accord. There isn't actually a single mention of the Aussies anywhere in it?!

Re:Please Donate

[walshy007]

Nobody will argue the climate is changing.. it always has, what you will get is people arguing about how much of that is caused by humans, which I think is fair debate.

A lot of greens seem to be very irrational to me, they are the sort of people who (rightly) dislike the burning of coal and yet also hate the idea of approving the construction of modern fast breeder nuclear reactors that recycle their own fuel until what is left is barely above background radiation (and ironically, releases less radiation into the environment in total, since burning coal tends to release some into the air.. I'd prefer a small amount in barrels then more in the air).

Take this flood for instance, one of almost the same level happened in 1974, and in 1893. By all accounts this is tends to be an every 50-100 year thing. Yet on the news there are so many people claiming straight up that this was mans doing without any evidence whatsoever.

The greens may have the right idea, but outright lying does not help their cause and makes people like me cynical towards them.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

Australians are pretty obnoxious (especially their sports fans) but Paki's are just assholes. In any case, anything you send there will get stolen by corrupt officials.

Re:Please Donate

[Hognoxious]

I am sure that the big name charities are quite used to dealing with all sorts of officials - corrupt or otherwise.

Staff at hospices are quite used to dealing with fatal diseases. It doesn't mean they can do anything about them.

Re:Please Donate

[1u3hr]

Australia and especially conservative Queenslanders are amongst the staunchest climate change denialists

You can find plenty of idiots in Australia, as you can everywhere, but to blandly declare that Australians as a whole believe that is bullshit. And no, the couple of quotes you gave are just anecdotal and opinions. Of course, the coal industry exerts immense pressure. And governments give way to that. As they do everywhere.

The Wikileak story you link to is about how the USA blackmailed other countries into watering down Copenhagen. Yet this is somehow proof of "Australian complacency"?.

Re:Please Donate

[BJ_Covert_Action]

So, let me get this straight, there is a group of people that is actively unfriendly towards the environment. A natural disaster has occurred in the area where that group of people live. Some people in that area, possibly members of the group, possibly not, have died. Other people have outright disappeared. Still other people have had their homes and livelihoods wrecked by a geological event outside the control of the human species. And yet, just because there is a group of people that live in that same area, who have poor environmental practices, the rest of humanity should just turn their backs on everyone affected.

Wow, you're a grade-A, zealous, enviro-nut asshole, FriendlyLurker. I can only hope that you picked your screen name to be ironic, because there is absolutely nothing friendly about the action you are espousing. I think this is one of the most anti-social, sociopathic, and utterly tragic posts I've ever read on this site. You're terrible.

Re:Please Donate

[FriendlyLurker]

Wow. This reminds me of seeing the TV footage of people dancing in the streets when the twin towers came down. Do you really believe that the people affected by these floods deserved it? Is this God smiting the wicked people of the world?

I certainly believe that man causes climate change, but I put my feelings on this matter aside and feel sympathy for the thousands of people who have had their lives turned upside down. It is called being human.

Sympathy for the victims, yes. These people deserve all our sympathy + every cent of their own governments annual $3.22 billion in coal royalties (and then some) in financial aid to help them recover. The families of those who have lost their lives deserve our deepest condolences. However - What the the world does not deserve is climate denialist states like theirs blithely selling dirty coal (20% of world production) at massive profits - outspoken members of their parliament publicly ridiculing the worlds climate scientists so they can continue to avoid and suppress real climate change debate. Donation money is not required for a rich state like Queensland with $33.2 billion in yearly profits (and growing) - our money is much better donated to more needy third world countries that are not sitting on top of highly profitable, highly polluting cash cows.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

how can a country which is wealthy and mostly filled with good infrastructure seemingly ignore such disrepair and decay in a major city?

If they could get all the Abbo's to go live in one city, would most Australians care if that city caught fire, fell over, caught fire again and then sank into a swamp?

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

The Wikileak story you link to is about how the USA blackmailed other countries into watering down Copenhagen. Yet this is somehow proof of "Australian complacency"?.

This story was hardly reported in many Aussie mainstream media channels - with small exception.

Re:Please Donate

[FriendlyLurker]

See my post here. Sympathy is well deserved for the poor innocent people killed and affected by this tragedy. What is not deserved is how the Queensland state is hell-bent on causing the same kind of environmental disaster on the world stage.

Re:Please Donate

[AlecC]

Regrettably, I have seen factual reports from a fairly reliable source (The Economist) that exactly what GP said is happening, A lot of flood relief money is sticking to fingers or being routed to the preferted groups rather than the needy groups.

It may or may not be racist, but Pakistan has a pretty corrupt administration. The President used to be known as "Mr 10%", and many accusations of corruption have been made against him. He asserts, possibly correctly, that the accusations were political; on the other hand, it may be that his non-prosecution is political. Whichever way it is, it is an atmosphere in which heavyweight accusations of corruption are not enough to block a political career.

Re:Please Donate

[CrimsonAvenger]

Ask the people in New Orleans. Parts of that city still haven't been rebuilt, and it's been 6 years since Katrina.

It must be noted, for the record, that part of the reason that some areas of N'Awlins haven't been rebuilt is that a sizable chunk of the people who left for Katrina never bothered to come back. Why bother rebuilding an area that noone is living in, after all?

Re:Please Donate

[sycodon]

Sounds like an 18th Century Medicine man: It will cure arthritis, enhance your sexual prowess, and calm the stomach.

I have a theroy on Global Warming. It will get hotter. It will get colder. Repeat. It's irrfutable.

They have their theory too: It will be hotter. It will be colder. There will be less rain. There will be more rain.

It's nice to have a theroy to which you can attribute everyone outside "normal".

And..Hurricanes? Seriously? You and the emperical data have some talking to do.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends, did they collectively light the fires to their own houses so that the government would go build them new ones? If so most wouldn't care, otherwise everything possible would be done for them.

(I'm not kidding, some of the less educated actually have had bonfires inside their own government-given houses before. They put the better behaved normal people of aboriginal decent to shame.)

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

It is very unfortunate that you were not at the AZ rally to act as a human shield for the nine year old girl.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you been to Massachusetts...? Quality modern infrastructure is not what we're known for...

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

The obvious answer to this is that it is NOT the worst flood ever to hit Brisbane. It's just the worst since the 1890s. Of course, the damage will be much more because the city has grown immensely since then.

Re:Please Donate

[timholman]

Regrettably, I have seen factual reports from a fairly reliable source (The Economist) that exactly what GP said is happening, A lot of flood relief money is sticking to fingers or being routed to the preferted groups rather than the needy groups.

It may or may not be racist, but Pakistan has a pretty corrupt administration.

And I have read the exact same reports, hence my original post. It is not racist to point out the truth of the situation in Pakistan, any more than it is racist to point out that a huge portion of the Haitian earthquake relief money is being diverted / stolen / squandered in exactly the same way.

It is regrettable that the people of Haiti and Pakistan must suffer with the governments they have, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the money that has been donated for those causes hasn't done anything except line the pockets of the criminal elite.

Re:Please Donate

[Gadget_Guy]

Regrettably, I have seen factual reports from a fairly reliable source (The Economist) that exactly what GP said is happening, A lot of flood relief money is sticking to fingers or being routed to the preferted groups rather than the needy groups.

Yes, but some money still gets through to the people who need it. Other money gets taken by some highly paid people high up within the major charities too. But in the end, you just have to treat all that as a cost of getting the aid to the victims of these disasters. In the end, if you don't donate anything because you are too worried that someone might profit from it, then it is not those officials who will suffer - it is the people who have nothing left in the world.

Re:Please Donate

[geekoid]

Yes, a single data point is useless, that's why it's all about trends of normal cycles and how they changes.

Re:Please Donate

[GooberToo]

Widely been estimated by multiple creditable source that as much as 50% of donations made to third world countries are used to fund war, slavery, or simply enrich a dictator. All too often, even when the funds actually do buy, for example, food and medicine, they wind up in a dictator's hands which are then horded away from the people in need.

Topical donations are likely a good thing here, but chances are very high, if you're donating elsewhere, while good intentioned, is empowering the worst humanity has to offer.

Re:Please Donate

[labnet]

Anyone wanting to follow this event live can listen to 612 ABC.
The peak of the flood will not hit for another 48 Hours.

http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/includes/winstream.asx

Re:Please Donate

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Honestly, the sheer fact that you tried, and continue to try, to hijack a thread regarding donations to help the victims to further your own political message is disgusting. The parent poster was simply providing a resource which people could use to donate to disaster relief. You took that opportunity to start proselytizing about climate change because there happens to be some shady people in the same geographic location. Get some fucking perspective. Not everything has to come back to climate change, dirty coal, or whatever other political issues you care about.

I stand by my assertion that you are a jerk and an asshole. Not because you didn't offer kind words to the victims, but because your actions demonstrate that you consider your personal politics to be more important. It's sick, plain and simple.

Re:Please Donate

[mug funky]

you're insane.

the QLD government does not run the mines. and QLD's actually quite a large fruit, veg and sugar producer.

also, Tasmania's green movement is much less powerful than you would like. the logging companies control Tassie, and the majority of the population is on their side (everyone needs a job).

your agendas have no room in this discussion. get hold of some facts and think things through.

Re:Please Donate

[timbo234]

It's true that the Australian government doesn't need to ask for donations to shore itself up during this crisis, unlike perhaps Haiti's or Pakistan's governments. Australia is a very rich country with relatively low debt, the amount of money the government can raise on the open market is many orders of magnitude greater than what any donation appeal can raise.

However it's not that simple, even if the Aussie federal and Qld state governments are very generous there are always limits to what you can pay for with the public purse. They can't and won't just rebuild everyone's house and business for them, nor compensate businesses for lost trade nor cover dozens of other big and little losses and expenses that people affected by this crisis have.

So yes there are probably people in very poor countries who have worse things to worry about than many of the people affected by this flood, but equally money you donate to this will really help out someone at the worst time of their life.

Make your own decision about which is best and then please keep it to yourself, getting into the 'do they deserve charity' discussion is simply unnecessary.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL yeah because freak extreme weather has nothing to do with climate change. Dufus.

Re:Please Donate

[definate]

More so, the actual charities say it themselves. They often have to pay fees to government, or have their stuff processed, or similar euphemisms, before getting into the country. Really terrible when you think about it.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I fully agree. This is what we get here. A flood that is due to global ... wait what? We've had floods in 1974. We've had floods in 1890s. We've had many catastrophic floods in between. In other news, a KKK member stubs his toe, clearly this is because he is a racist.

On the upside we built Wivenhoe dam after the 1974 floods. The result is definite proof that your global warming floods of doom can be engineered around! The impact to Brisbane city is minimal compared with the past floods.

Re:Please Donate

[grainofsand]

Indeed Australia is the smallest continent, but the largest island.

Re:Please Donate

[fuscus2010]

My wife, a flipino, says exactly the same about her home country

Re:Please Donate

[mongrol]

Unfortunately, the majority of the (now) 75 missing are from Grafton, which has a population of about 200.

Re:Please Donate

[mjwx]

Thats not really a very good comparison, Australia has one of the lowest population densities on the planet

Considering the size of the flood, isolation of the communities and so forth. The flood affected area is about the size of several European nations, more locally about all of New South Wales and a bit of Victoria.

But we can attribute the low loss of lives to the training of the SES, SES volunteers and local Fire and Emergency services who know exactly what to do in such an emergency. I used to live in an area of Australia that was subject to quite bad bushfires and was in a cyclone zone. When we went to blue alert (cyclone could reach here in 72 hours) the cops went around tying things down that couldn't be moved in doors as well as informing residents of what to do, this was in addition to the ABC (Australian) radio broadcasts.

Australia is a land of extremes, we (as individuals) take natural disasters very seriously. From the day the first flood warnings went out people were stocking up on water, food, batteries and other essentials.

Re:Please Donate

[TapeCutter]

"the QLD government does not run the mines"

He never said it did, miners pay taxes and our economy is largely based on being the world's quarry, Qld coal exports are not an insignificant part of that.

Re:Please Donate

[Sabriel]

You astound me. Not only do you use a completely contrary example as your classic case - "reap what you sow" refers to the same party, while "privatising profits and socializing losses" refers to a small clique exploiting the masses - you appear to be seriously suggesting that a bunch of poor people ("most Australians are completely unaware") should be left to rely on government handouts because a few rich people in the same country ("a few powerful players") contributed to the problem.

Nice job breaking it, hero.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

This flood is equivalent to the Federation flood 100 odd years ago. I suppose that was caused by too many horses farting or something insteasd of it being part of a natural cycle. Doofus.

Re:Please Donate

[Nefarious Wheel]

That said, it is somewhat true. The first world status of Australia means the communications in general (including TV news and such) and disaster warning systems are much more advanced

We're also heavy Internet users. We were using a combination of Facebook, Ventrilo and WoW guild chat to check status on our friends up in the north. Laugh if you like, it worked. One of my Facebook re-posts was "13 meter wave headed for Toowomba get out now ring SES 000 if you need assistance." Fortunately everyone checked in afterward.

And tomorrow we're holding a morning tea at work to raise funds. Being Australian (and with our strong volunteer culture) we are all likely to dig deep.

And for once, kudos to the first post on this thread.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

That 8m wall of water swept through a couple of small towns, total population maybe 1,000 people.

It's now travelling downstream toward Brisbane, population 2 million.

Luckily:
1) the surge will "flatten out" as it flows downstream
2) most of Brisbane is above the flood level
3) we've had two days' warning

Still, flood levels are predicted to be the highest in 118 years. That's even with a major dam constructed across the Brisbane River, which has held back 1.4 million megalitres of floodwaters. To put that into perspective, it's nearly three times the volume of Sydney Harbour, or (as best I can figure) about 18% of the volume of San Francisco Bay.

We're really hoping it stops raining here for a week or so... :-(
There was about 10 inches of rain in the Brisbane River catchment yesterday.

Re:Please Donate

[Meski]

It might be, isn't it still happening?

Re:Please Donate

[rtb61]

Give to both would have been the better answer. If current hardship strains your generosity than definitely give to those more in need when those donations are managed by larger reputable organisations the aid will most likely get to where it is most needed, let your own conscience choose.

The most urgent aid will be provided by the Australian Government, once things have settled down then aid can be more accurately targeted at those in need (donations a little latter than earlier can better fill in gaps of assistance provided by the Australian government).

In Australia the demand by the Australian people is that the government must provide 'ALL' the assistance required, ahead of military spending, ahead of corporate aid, ahead of making the rich richer, Australian charity is there to just fill the gaps in government aid and foreign aid while welcome should not in any way be necessary (if it is then the Australian government will have been deemed to have failed).

Re:Please Donate

[CaptainDefragged]

I think you mean Gatton, next door to Grantham. Grafton is in northern NSW. Still doesn't make it any better though :(

Re:Please Donate

[MichaelSmith]

Very true. Australia is a first world country with good warning systems etc. so you would expect death tolls to be lower than in developing nations.

Our big advantage is that most children learn to swim. These people followed locals into the water, assuming it would be safe for them. Not so.

Re:Please Donate

[FriendlyLurker]

As I read it, the QLD government receives "$3.22 billion [annually] in coal royalties". That is a whole lot of handout which can easily cover the flood costs. Since QLD coal is a big contributor to the problem on the world stage ("20% of world production"), dirty coal included, then it is only fair that the QLD gov reaps what it has helped sow - pay up for damages out of it's coal royalties. It would not be fair for them to socialise the cost of damages out to donators and keep it's 3 billion+ a year in royalties now, would it!? As for the quotes you pulled - they relate to the lack of climate change debate in the Aussie media - which is most certainly controlled by a handful of powerful players.

Nice job trying to spin it, ya blow-in.

Re:Please Donate

[dwywit]

Thank you.

Re:Please Donate

[hairyfish]

Or better don't ever money at all. Something in me just doesn't sit right with the commercialisation of charity these days. By all means donate time, goods, or services, but money? There is something inherently evil about that entire concept that I can't quite grasp yet, but I know it just feels wrong. It's as if you are outsourcing your guilt for a price.

Re:Please Donate

[hairyfish]

We need some perspective for the death toll. ie what is the total death rate change during these disasters? ie On any normal day, how many people have die from heart disease, succumb to cancer, die in traffic accidents etc? If 10 people in the area die on average per day from other causes, then on disaster day, 10 people die but are attributed to the disaster, then there is no net loss of life. I have no idea if it's higher lower or the same, but I think it's a relevant question. And I suspect that sometimes these numbers get tweaked to boost newsworthiness and up the income for charitycorp. 10 deaths is bad news, but that sounds like a fairly normal rate for a population area of over a million people, natural disaster or not.

Re:Please Donate

[chomsky68]

no need to thank, I am an expat new south welshman

Re:Please Donate

[Sabriel]

Thankyou for clarifying. It wasn't immediately clear that you were taking aim at the government rather than the population.

Re:Please Donate

[drsmithy]

As I read it, the QLD government receives "$3.22 billion [annually] in coal royalties". That is a whole lot of handout which can easily cover the flood costs.

Er, yeah, maybe if that money wasn't already being used to pay for running the state. How stupid do you have to be to think that ~3 billion dollars just drops into some big box somewhere every year and sits, unused ?

Incidentally, there's little reason to believe this flood has anything to do with climate change at all, let alone the irrelevantly tiny proportion of climate change that Queensland's coal mining could possibly be responsible for.

Re:Please Donate

[FriendlyLurker]

Er, yeah, that's because every state in the world has 20% of the world coal market - without it it would be impossible for them all to run. Not to mention Aussies rejecting raising taxes on mining companies - being the lowest in the first world. Who is calling whom stupid?

As for your climate change dig (Queenslander are we?) - if you listened at all to climate change scientist community you would know that it means more frequent extreme weather conditions (not necessarily "biggest ever"). You know, like the recent series of floods in south Spain (never happened so frequently in recoded history), more frequent cyclones etc. Perhaps your fox news channel hasn't been keeping you informed.

Re:Please Donate

[drsmithy]

Er, yeah, that's because every state in the world has 20% of the world coal market - without it it would be impossible for them all to run.

How is that relevant ? Queensland's economy relies heavily on mining, and the money generated from same isn't like some surprise, once-off Christmas bonus that appears out of nowhere at the end of the year.

Not to mention Aussies rejecting raising taxes on mining companies - being the lowest in the first world. Who is calling whom stupid?

Huh ? Additional mining taxes have been approved and will take effect next year.

As for your climate change dig (Queenslander are we?) - if you listened at all to climate change scientist community you would know that it means more frequent extreme weather conditions (not necessarily "biggest ever").

I'm well aware of that, and I'm also well aware that this is a once-in-a-century (probably more like once-in-a-few-centuries) event, which you apparently aren't. If it happens multiple times again in the next decade - or if this were the second or third time it had happened in the last decade or two - you might have a glimmer of an argument. However, the last time an event even close to this magnitude occurred was in the 1890s.

You know, like the recent series of floods in south Spain (never happened so frequently in recoded history), more frequent cyclones etc. Perhaps your fox news channel hasn't been keeping you informed [worldwildlife.org].

Your argument is based on the premise that these events are "frequent", but the current flooding in Queensland (and other parts of Australia) is unprecedented in recorded history. Three quarters of the state is inundated, and that's before even considering the parts of Northern NSW, Victoria and Tasmania that are also flooding.

Re:Please Donate

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, should the relatives of the victims of school shootings in the US just suck it up because of liberal gun laws? Should sympathy be reserved only for those who support stricter gun controls?

This isn't a debate on gun laws, but if you want to try to hold people's political opinions against them when they've just lost their entire life, you're just being an asshole. I live in Brisbane, have friends who've lost property, thankfully I don't know anyone personally who has lost family or friends to the disaster. Of the people who have lost, and are in need of assistance, they are mostly left wing, do their part in keeping down their energy use, reducing, reusing and recycling and all that. In fact, regardless of their position on the cause of climate change, most people I know put the effort into being "green" because it's not that much effort.

I agree that Queensland (and all of Australia) has far too much reliance on coal as an energy source, but we are a huge country, with a relatively small GDP per area. The development of infrastructure is damn expensive.

Make your political statement, but don't try to pin this on the people who've lost so much. Many of the areas most devastated have large populations of people living close to or below the poverty line.

We're also not ignorant of the ridiculous job our government did representing us at Copenhagen.

Re:Please Donate

[dbIII]

Wow. This reminds me of seeing the TV footage of people dancing in the streets when the twin towers came down.

I saw that too on CNN on the day. They were supposed to be Palestinians celebrating. For some reason a lot of them had t-shirts with the Brazilian flag on them or soccer balls. It was also outside and night in the footage but the sun had not yet set in the middle east when it was shown. Some utterly evil bastard at CNN with an agenda wanted to stir up a bit of extra hate and ran some file footage of a world cup soccer celebration. Were there actually people dancing in the streets that day? I don't know because that's the only source of that news there was and it was FRAUD. That horrible trick worked because it's stuck in your head and many others. I only twigged because I'm halfway around the world and knew which bits of the planet would be in sunlight, then I spotted the soccer stuff.
I'm also somewhat pissed off with the idiot "friendlylurker" above that is trying to tell me I deserve a lot of mud in the house because Australian governments for years have been doing what the US government has told them to do on climate change. We voted in the bunch that is at least doing something about the issue instead of the lot that denies it exists.

Re:Please Donate

[Gadget_Guy]

Actually, I was aware that it was probably bogus. I was going to put the word "allegedly" in there, but I didn't want to have people fixate on that one word about a catastrophe from 10 years ago and allow the focus to move from the Aussies who are in real need right now.

I am glad that you did bring it up though. I was hoping that it would get mentioned.

Re:Please Donate

[dbIII]

As somebody in the middle of the Brisbane flood with water still drying under the house I can say that there was a flood in Brazil at the same time that was a hell of a lot worse. People did die here but not many because most people had plenty of warning to get out and most of the flooding in Brisbane was from the slow moving water in creeks and not the main river. Grantham and other places upstream were a different story with a wall of water that ripped through without warning. Those people copped a far worse situation than anyone in Brisbane and that's where the deaths occured.
Mostly it was a slow moving disaster in a city full of TV cameras so it got a lot of attention.
Some of my friends have lost just about everything they had but they are alive and well and may even be able to repair their house. It's no Katrina or no tsunami.
An amazing thing is that so many people put in time to help. I had over a dozen people that were walking past ask me if I wanted a hand just when I was cleaning the front of the house. There were about two busloads of Japanese students that parked in my street and walked around putting information leaflets in letterboxes about how to get assistance right down to the detail of where the laundramats are and which supermarkets are still open.

It's Fast

[Mike Mentalist]

This BBC video link shows how fast the flooding is - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12161502

Re:It's Fast

[Anonymous Coward]

This BBC video link shows how fast the flooding is - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12161502

The "original" is perhaps on the ABC website

More disturbing is the amount of water that went through the town of Grantham

Re:It's Fast

[Anonymous Coward]

Err... neither one is "the original", it's the work of an amateur who has (I hope) made a few bucks by selling it to media outlets, who have both re-edited it for their own purposes. The BBC version shows more, though - it's over a minute longer.

Re:It's Fast

[bug1]

The original is http://www.youtube.com/user/whitelightbringer#p/a/u/0/kYUpkPTcqPY/

In the city now.

[Anonymous Coward]

In my extremely overpriced million dollar bubble house in the city. We haven't been flooded yet so far.

Would do anything to move to a Cali mcmansion...and take whatever's left over and spin up a startup.
Unfortunately.you need a million just to buy a U.S. greencard right now...

Wish I could come over and drive up your real estate prices my friends.
I've been looking longingly at U.S. real estate all day...

Sigh...

[AlexiaDeath]

Loss of life and damage is sad of course but... It's really depressing how short peoples memories are even in this day and age. Building on flood areas of rivers and marsh lands ever so happily. Of course its going to flood there. If not in this year then sometime in the next 50-100 years for sure. If people choose to live in such places they should be prepared to rebuild their houses now and then and have a plan of action in case of a flood.

Re:Sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell that to all of the folks in Bangladesh.

Re:Sigh...

[drinkypoo]

What I don't understand is people who got wiped out in Katrina, got paid, and then used their money to move back in. If someone hands you a check, take it and run like a motherfucker!

Re:Sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

They have. And the people that live there also know it. But its also fertile land, and if it would be dammed in it would lose the fertility.

Re:Sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

If they ran, they wouldn't get paid when it happens again. It's rewarding bad behavior.

Re:Sigh...

[GreenMeerkat]

You do realise that these areas have been settled for over a century right? And maybe you could leave your "I told you so" until after the death rates finish climing. But yea.. thanks for the empathy.

Re:Sigh...

[Cimexus]

The people in Brisbane know full well that certain areas are flood prone, especially those that lived through the 1974 floods. Seems that the current flooding is probably a 1-in-100-year kinda event so they got a bit unlucky. But everyone in these areas in Brisbane knows and accepts the risk.

As for the flash flooding in Toowoomba, well that's a different story. I find it hard to fault their choice of where to live. Far from being a flood plain, Toowoomba is on the top of a freaking plateau 700 metres above sea level, and nothing even remotely like this has happened in its recorded history. A freak event, and very sad.

Re:Sigh...

[AlexiaDeath]

Couldn't agree more.

Re:Sigh...

[daid303]

As a dutch person I'm offended by this. It's perfectly possible to live in areas that flood easily or are even below sea level. You just need to prepare for it, and respect the water.

Also, flood areas of rivers are very fertile, you want to build food on those lands, or keep cattle on it.

Re:Sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realise they built a huge dam to make the city flood-proof? Now even with the dam it looks as the river will peak above 1974 levels. They took appropriate action to stop it but this is just unprecedented.

Re:Sigh...

[Cimexus]

Wivenhoe has done its job magnificently - I think you must have misinterpreted my post. I'm saying that thankfully this will only look like a 1-in-100 ARI flood. Without the dam, it would have been more like a 1-in-500 year or something. So you are absolutely right, it's unprecedented (at least as far the dam system is concerned).

Re:Sigh...

[TheRaven64]

build food

This is probably caused by a literal translation from the Dutch, but it still made me chortle.

Re:Sigh...

[Gadget_Guy]

Building on flood areas of rivers and marsh lands ever so happily. Of course its going to flood there.

You know, 75% of the state of Queensland (that is nearly double the size of Texas) has been declared to be in a state of emergency. Are you suggesting that everyone should pack up and move interstate?

Re:Sigh...

[Apuleius]

True enough. But if you can move uphill without having to learn German, it's wise to do so.

Re:Sigh...

[IonOtter]

Yes, but the Dutch take extreme insult at inefficiency and incompetence, not to mention corruption and graft. They will pay a lot for quality work, but by God, it had BETTER be quality work, or there will be Hell to pay.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world carries on with the business of fucking each other over pennies.

Re:Sigh...

[Hognoxious]

I think somebody did - that's why they've all moved to Lancashire.

Re:Sigh...

[ultranova]

What I don't understand is people who got wiped out in Katrina, got paid, and then used their money to move back in. If someone hands you a check, take it and run like a motherfucker!

Indeed. After all New Orleans is catastrophically flooded once per year, or a total of 5 times since Hurricane Katrina. Clearly it would be perfectly rational to base your actions on this extremely common occurrence and move to some other location which never experiences disaster of any kind, leaving your home, friends and job behind.

Re:Sigh...

[thegarbz]

Try and understand the scale of what you're saying. People in Brisbane aren't building below sea level, they aren't building straw houses in hurricane territory. The freaky flooding that occurs no one could have predicted. Have a look at the warning. Now note that the low lying areas of Brisbane which were evacuated were done so as a precaution due to a flood level of a few meters. This impacts only a few minor riverside premises. The Wivenhoe dam was built to protect us and it has done a wonderful job.

Now have a look at Ipswich. The flood gauge is expected to peak at 20meters. Let me repeat that for you. The river is expected to be TWENTY METRES higher than it's normal level. So tell me where do you think it is safe to build? How high / far away from a river?

I know lets build in Toowoomba, a town that until yesterday was on level 5 water restrictions (120L per person per day, no watering of gardens, no washing of cars). A town that is built near the great dividng range, a mountainous area way above sea level, and is nowhere near a major river. Today it's totalled.

This isn't a case of stupid town planning. It's a natural disaster, unprecedented even in our flood prone history.

Re:Sigh...

[knarf]

"voedsel verbouwen" in Dutch translates to "to grow food". The literal translation of "verbouwen" can be the former, "to grow (something)" but it also means "to rebuild" (structures, etc). The original poster half-translated or s/he'd said "to rebuild food" which might even be more appropriate - the food got flooded out so it needs to be rebuilt, right?

Re:Sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, most of Bangladesh is a river delta and flood plain. They do need this advice.

Re:Sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh you are completely correct.

All those Californians depress me too, why should we be surprised when an earthquake hits and kills thousands, after all, they all lived there safely for many years. And what about all those other people living on earth. Would you be surprised when an asteroid hits earth and causes devastation, after all, it's happened before. WHEN WILL WE LEARN?!

Re:Sigh...

[daid303]

No, what I ment is that it's perfectly acceptable, and even great to grow food on areas that flood once every 5-10 years.

Re:Sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

The areas are flood prone, however Wivenhoe was built to offset much of that risk. The fact that Wivenhoe was there was extremely helpful, as it acted as a buffer and allowed the "inland tsunami" to be released in a more controlled manner. Rather than one huge influx of water, Wivenhoe was able to capture and store a large amount, which while requiring continuous releases to avoid compromising the dam, allowed the flood level to be lower, at the cost of extending the flood time.

Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

Remember when you're reading this that it's currently summer down here.

In the region (Brisband) the average temperature for this month is around 27 degrees celsius (80 degrees fahrenheit) and average rainfall is around 100 milliliters for the month (6.1 cubic inches).

In fact, the entire country has had an extremely wet summer, and an extremely dry winter for the last year or two.

If you want to feel the effects of climate instability, you just gotta come down here, where it's sunny and 36 degrees celsius (96 degrees fahrenheit) one day and raining and 22 degrees celsius (71 degrees fahrenheit) the next.

It's been fucking insane.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Cimexus]

Small correction ... rainfall is measured as a 'depth', not a 'volume'. So *millimetres* is the unit you are looking for. Average rainfall of 100 mm equates to around 4 inches.

To put the rainfall SE Queensland has had in perspective, virtually all weather stations in the Wivenhoe catchment have recorded between 400-700 mm of rain in the last ~three days~. Some spots even higher (Maleny in the Sunshine Coast hinterland has 740 mm / 29 inches of rain over the last three days - that is a metric f**kton of rainfall in any language)

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

Excellent, wasn't sure about that part, thanks!

That's an insane amount of rain. Considering it basically hasn't stop raining for them this entire month, this months levels are going to be fucking huge! In 3 days, they're already off the highest measurement on the BOM's "average" scale.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Dexter Herbivore]

If you want to feel the effects of climate instability, you just gotta come down here, where it's sunny and 36 degrees celsius (96 degrees fahrenheit) one day and raining and 22 degrees celsius (71 degrees fahrenheit) the next.

It's been fucking insane.

Hell, that's Melbourne weather at ANY time during the summer.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[0100010001010011]

you just gotta come down here, where it's sunny and 36 degrees celsius (96 degrees fahrenheit) one day and raining and 22 degrees celsius (71 degrees fahrenheit) the next.

It's been fucking insane.

We call that "Indiana". I see your instability and raise you.
70F and sunny and 6" of snow and 14F.

Also, how do you measure rain? Stateside it's not in volume but in just inches. Now I believe that they use a capture device with a 1" sq top.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Anonymous Coward]

that is a metric f**kton of rainfall in any language

I'm American. Can you convert that to Imperial?

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[khallow]

If you want to feel the effects of climate instability, you just gotta come down here, where it's sunny and 36 degrees celsius (96 degrees fahrenheit) one day and raining and 22 degrees celsius (71 degrees fahrenheit) the next.

Day to day variation is weather not climate.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

Yeah, sorry, I messed that up. Another commenter corrected me.

Do your 70F to 14F happen like this...
Day 1: 70F
Day 2: 14F
Day 3: 70F
Day 4: 14F ... and so on.

It's not quite that rapid sometimes, but there's been periods of it. Though our temperatures are more like 100F, 70F, 100F, 70F, and so on.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

It's not Adelaide weather at ANY time during the Summer, but it's just about all we've had for the last 2 years.

It's been fucking shit as.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[srealm]

1 Metric Fuckton = 1 Imperial Fuckload.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Anonymous Coward]

"average rainfall is around 100 milliliters for the month"

Just 100cc for the whole state? Or is that for the city of Brisbane? That sounds drier than the outback.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Cimexus]

Yeah he got his units mixed up - it's the same here in Australia (i.e. an accumulated depth measurement, in millimetres rather than inches though).

Refer to post above: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1945828&cid=34835426

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Revek]

Sounds just like arkansas

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Cimexus]

Yeah unfortunately, although I'm Australian and we definitely have extremes in this country, the US midwest has us beat in any "rapid weather change" contest, by a long long way. The extremes in Australia can be just as extreme in magnitude ... but they don't ~change~ as quickly as in North America.

Australia is comparatively insulated from sharply contrasting airmasses meeting each other because we are an island, and there is nothing but ocean between us and the Antarctic. So polar airmasses making their way from the Antarctic up to Australia are considerably moderated and warmed by the ocean before they get to us. Contrast America which has solid land all the way up to the arctic, which doesn't provide much warming (especially when snowcovered in winter) and thus allows airmasses to remain colder for longer as they penetrate southwards. So you can see day by day temperature fluctuations in America that are significantly more severe than in Australia.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[ziggyzaggy]

That's not "climate instability", and these floods and weather have happened before where you live, again and again. Don't fall into the trap of believing climatologist nonsense, who after the facts pull out one of thousands of models and say "oh, see climate change will cause floods!" when four years ago it was "climate change will cause droughts!" And in a violent hurricane season (which has happened cyclically for millennia) they'll say "oh, climate change will cause harsher hurricanes!" utter rubbish, not climate, unscientific garbage.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to feel the effects of climate instability, you just gotta come down here, where it's sunny and 36 degrees celsius (96 degrees fahrenheit) one day and raining and 22 degrees celsius (71 degrees fahrenheit) the next.

If you half the temperatures, you have just described the normal weather pattern here in Dundee.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[fremsley471]

Spent Feb 2009 travelling from Sydney to Brisbane. Over a four day period 458 mm fell and cut off the local town (Bellingen). The hydrologists assured the local populace this was no more than a 1:40 year event. It happened twice more over the next three months. Things are, perhaps, changing.

But this is the enigma of weather's relationship with climate, they are the same and very different. Climate change will certainly mean expanded, more acidic seas and glacier melt on short term (decadal) timescales, but it will be on a centennial time-scales that we'll see weather patterns change which are definitely linked to our warmer world.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[dbIII]

Average yearly rainfall in those areas is 1000-1200mm. The numbers above are most of a years rain in three days.
For the moment the water where I am is not going up or down and is just covering the road. The next high tide is half a day away, and the day after that is when most of the water is supposed to be coming through.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[0100010001010011]

Ah yes, Spring, my favorite season.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[gardon]

Hell, that's Melbourne weather at ANY time.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[sandmaninator]

Minnesota is one of the places on earth that suffer the widest temperature variation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Minnesota_weather_records
71 deg F change in one day
Highest temp = 114 deg F on July 6th 1936
Lowest = -60 deg F on Feb 6th, 1996 - I was in Duluth for that one. Exposed skin got damaged quickly.
Variety is the spice of life :-)

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[lgftsa]

Or come to Townsville where it's sunny and 35 degrees C or rainy and 32 degrees C.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[ross.w]

It's a fallacy that a 1 in 40 year event or a 1 in 1000 year event can't happen two years in a row. It's more like rolling a dice. You'll roll a 4 on average one roll in six, but you can roll three fours in a row ( or more).

It's more accurate to say that a so called 1in 100 year flood has a 1% chance of happening in any given year. Since we are in the middle of another extreme La Nina, an overall 1% chance increases somewhat.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

Yeah, I just shouldn't post on climate/weather articles, because I got no idea what I'm talking about. Made a pile of egregious errors, which have been pointed out over and over again.

On the plus side, I'll never make these errors again!

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

You 'sas'n me boy?

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

Hold on.

No.

I've got family in that area, and I've been around for quite a long time now, and it doesn't nor has it happened, again and again.

You're mixing up the flood plains flooding (which does happen regularly), and everything else flooding.

See the footage with all the houses on stilts? That's the flood plains, that's the understandable part.

See the part where the cars are being washed down the road? The houses at ground level being flooded? Or the Wivenhoe Dam levels? These are the unexpected irregular flooded parts. THIS is not normal, and does not happen regularly.

Else, what you're saying is that Wivenhoe Dam, was built without the capacity to hold the water from this flood that happens regularly. You're saying that in the 70s/80s, they somehow didn't know about this "regular flooding".

Poppy cock!

These are exceptional circumstances. Whether or not its due to climate instability/change, is for someone else, with a background in that, to argue.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

Sunny and 35 degrees celsius? In Townsville?

I think you mean 45 degrees celsius?

There. Fixed it for you.

Heat's fine, humidity sucks!

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't Australia's PM arguing that *any* talk about controlling CO2 emissions would cause incalculable damage to Australia's economy? This is in-spite of what scientists say - you'll be paying significantly more in climate change and weather instability related economic damage just a few decades down the road. I guess scientists were too cautious. The bills for CO2 emissions have started to come in already and mother nature sure does not take "no" for an answer.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[highways]

A little more than two years ago, we were worried whether our dams would run out - you can see some pretty graphs here.

Disturbingly, when the dam was finally full again after 8 years of drought in October, the state opposition leader John-Paul Langbroek called to increase the water storage level at the expense of flood mitigation. The main dam (Wivenhoe Dam) can hold 225% of it's nominal capacity for flood storage. It's currently at 190%.

The dam is a earth embankment dam and is not design to spill. If so, it may erode the dam and potentially cause it's failure. Hence, there must be a controlled release, even while the flood conditions are occuring and it's a fine balancing act between holding back more rain and flooding downstream.

In general, it is considered that the flood mitigation capacity (about that of Sydney Harbour) will knock about 2m off a flood peak. There would be many more people currently swimming without it, even before it's expected to peak in about 36 hours.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[definate]

It's because of all those tram's. I don't know how... but it's the only thing that makes sense!

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[fremsley471]

Gambler's fallacy is tricky for the general public to understand; connected to the usually short hydrological records, the 1 in x years approach is perhaps counterproductive and a percentage would certainly be better. Saying that, I was also wrong on the number of 1:40 year floods in 2009 as there were four rather than three. The area's been populated with no great changes in land use since mid C19th [trees gone by then] so the river records were pretty adequate. Four rare flood events in 9 months is... exceptional. As central eastern Australia was being soaked, New Zealand, more specifically South Island, underwent a glorious dry autumn. My weak understanding of circulation systems of the Tasman Sea says the two were connected, rather than this being a pan-Pacific event; am very happy to be corrected.

This case is interesting as whilst it's almost certainly not linked to climate change per se, it is an example of what could happen if climate patterns shift. The problem, as outlined in the previous post, is that weather on the week-to-monthly time scale has immense natural variation. Currently climate modellers resolve synoptic patterns in very general terms and any results, however convincing, are probably just chaotic. It's a challenge that's being risen to, but as many meta-studies have shown, the science/technology isn't good enough yet to pin down any changes in circulation to climate change below the continent scale.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[inflex]

Gotta love Townsville, at least the Strand is a fantastic place to be now.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[TapeCutter]

"I see your instability and raise you."

The most extreme variability I've experienced in Melbourne was on the day of the Black Saturday bushfires, the temprature dropped 15 degC in 15 minutes. The reason for such dramatic temprature changes is that cold fronts that come up from Antartica are always preceeded by strong winds from the desert.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[TapeCutter]

"These are exceptional circumstances. Whether or not its due to climate instability/change, is for someone else, with a background in that, to argue."

It is indeed an exceptional event. It is a direct result of the strongest El-Nina event on record, the El-Nina/El-Nino cycle is basically large scale, long term turbulance and most climatologists will readily acknowledge it's reaction to AGW is poorly understood.

Disclaimer IANAC, just an interested amature.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I've worked as a coder at the Hydrology department of the BoM analyzing our 150-odd year record of rainfall data looking for flood events. I'm not a scientist, so I won't talk about weather/climate, just let you know what I know. This is now classed as a once in a hundred year event, and we had a similar event in 1890 or so. The record was fairly reliable even back then, but yes this has become the worst flood in living memory. Hopefully another of this magnitude won't hit for another hundred years, but it doesn't work like that, there's no real way to predict the next event. For what it's worth, the 100 year events are planned for just as the 50 and 20 year scenarios are. They were analysing and drafting contingency plans for this very event (mapping affected areas etc.), but I think everyone was caught off guard, expecting a 50 year scenario. So at least I can confirm the govt was doing due diligence in preparing for something on this scale even though it hadn't been seen for over a century.

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[RG1985]

In fact, the entire country has had an extremely wet summer, and an extremely dry winter for the last year or two.

Over here in the West we've had a couple of the driest summers on record...

Re:Remember when you're reading this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically it is a catchment and not a dam (which you state), a dam and a catchment operate differently.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/brisbane-threat-as-wivenhoe-fills/story-fn6ck51p-1225985249515

SEQ Water Grid spokesman Barry Dennien said Wivenhoe peak inflows had hit 1,032,000ML per day.

Brisband = Brisbane

[definate]

Wow, worst typo (it's late here).

Brisband = Brisbane

Re:Brisband = Brisbane

[ilsaloving]

Actually, the worst (best) typo I've ever seen was someone giving a link to the Symbian website (www.symbian.com), but they forgot the m (www.sybian.com).

Re:Brisband = Brisbane

[eastlight_jim]

I think your best one was to say that the average rainfall is around 6.1 cubic inches! The error is confusing millilitres with millimetres. The first is a measurement of volume (about 6.1 cubic inches) and the second is a length, interpreted in this case as a depth. The area of Brisbane according to wikipedia (I know it's been raining in more than one place but this is an approximation) is 5904.8 square kilometers which gives a total typical rainfall for this area for this month of about 590 million tons or about 3.6x10^13 cubic inches.

I'm sure there should be some sort of record broken for most orders of magnitude out here :-)

Re:Brisband = Brisbane

[definate]

LOL Yeah.

It's weird, I didn't really know about weather, and I intuitively thought it would be a measure of volume. So, when I looked at the BOM's site, it even says "millimetres", but somehow I read that as "millilitres", likely because of speed reading and thinking it would be in volume.

Re:Brisband = Brisbane

[definate]

LOL Well, at least I didn't do that.

Would have been good if that typo was a hard coded link in a program.

Re:Brisband = Brisbane

[Anonymous Coward]

No worse than "definate".

Re:What Is This, The Weather Channel??!!

[DrMaurer]

Srsly?

Besides the human interest story, there is a specific news item in the post about tech people making communications easier in the midst of disaster. Isn't that really interesting for your inner nerd?

Difference From Katrina...

[GreenSeven]

I was stationed in Biloxi, MS during Katrina and the comm there was terrible. Of course the first thing to go were the phone switches, which made everyone else panic... Funny thing is we had internet the whole time. I think today with the advances in smartphones, the lack of a phone wouldn't have been a huge issue if we could have kept a wi-fi signal up. Good thinking from the Aussies...

Re:LOL

[Shikaku]

Lots of Love? Aw how sweet...

Oh who the fuck am I kidding everyone knows what it really means =(

Getacanoe

[Dexter Herbivore]

To the person who tagged this story with the above tag in the title, please show some sensitivity... people have died here.

Re:Getacanoe

[Cimexus]

On top of that, getting a canoe is definitely not good advice. The SES already had to rescue some moron who thought it'd be fun to canoe down the raging torrent that is now the Brisbane River earlier this afternoon. You are best staying away from flood waters in general as they don't behave in the way standard water in the river does...

Re:Getacanoe

[timholman]

The SES already had to rescue some moron who thought it'd be fun to canoe down the raging torrent that is now the Brisbane River earlier this afternoon.

When Nashville flooded last year, an 18-year-old man decided to go tubing down a creek near his apartment when the flood waters began to rise. He was last seen as his tube slammed into a bridge overpass. They found his body about two weeks later.

You really have to wonder about the long-term prospects of those who see raging floodwaters and think: "Hey, that looks like fun!" It's tempting to let Darwin sort things out instead.

Re:Getacanoe

[Kell Bengal]

Darwin is much further north of where the flooding is, but transporting them to the Northern Territory sounds like an eminently serviceable idea!

Re:Getacanoe

[TheLink]

Plus the water levels are high enough that get your head smashed on bridges and stuff while getting washed down the river...

Maybe we could call doing that a Brisbane award instead of a Darwin award ;).

Re:Getacanoe

[anyGould]

Reminds me of a set of photos I saw from an old hurricane.

Picture one was of a fairly normal three-floor apartment complex. Apparently the residents decided to throw a "hurricane party". Stocked up on food and water (and booze and munchies), moved everything up to the third floor, and hunkered down to wait out the storm.

Picture two was of the concrete pad that the apartment complex used to be on - if not for the building footprint, you'd never have known there was a building there in the first place.

Re:Getacanoe

[ross.w]

Plus remember that the sewage system doesn't go where it's supposed to in a flood. I cringe when I see people swimming around in that.

Re:Getacanoe

[Dexter Herbivore]

3.52pm: Sewage treatment facilities near Brisbane have broken down, leading to raw sewage pouring into the Brisbane River. Authorities have already urged city residents to conserve water; today Lord Mayor Campbell Newman has warned people against swimming in the city's river because of the potential disease risk.

Right on the money. Although my main question about this report is, wouldn't there be better reasons to NOT swim in the Brisbane River at the moment?

Good that they value communications

[Ltap]

It's good that they're not undervaluing communications, not just between emergency personnel but between regular people. While disaster relief specialists and people like the police need proper communications to organize, many regular people (maybe not Australians, though) will panic in the face of a disaster. Keeping the regular citizen from getting himself killed because of a stupid decision is an important yet underrated thing (since most disaster relief is aimed at poor countries and is intended to do the bare minimum).

Re:Good that they value communications

[daid303]

Keeping the regular citizen from getting himself killed because of a stupid decision

Not a fan of the Darwin awards I guess?

That pretty well sums up my life . . .

[PolygamousRanchKid]

It's been fucking insane.

Re:That pretty well sums up my life . . .

[MMC Monster]

It can be more fun to fuck insane than fuck sane. You just have to be careful, as fucking insane can be kinda dangerous at times...

OR

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could hold onto your US dollars for about another week, at which point they will translate into alot more Australian dollars of aid than they will today.

The Australian dollar has been peaking out at one-to-one with the US dollar for a while now, which is really overvalued, even given the rat-shit state of the US dollar (cheers/jeers to the speculators). Looks like the fallout from the flooding might be about to trigger the correction...

Queensland Coal and climate change

[FriendlyLurker]

Queensland Coal and climate change

"The coal industry is Queensland’s leading contributor to climate change, amounting to around 394 million tonnes (Mt) of greenhouse gas emissions per year. These emissions are 2.5 times the combined domestic emissions for the entire state, which stood at 160 Mt in 2008, including stationary energy, transport, fugitive emissions, industrial processes, agriculture, waste, and land use, land use change and forestry. Additionally, the mining, processing and transportation of coal contributes enormously to greenhouse gas production.

The Queensland Government’s commitment to coal expansion has the direct consequence of reducing our ability to prevent climate change. The 2010-11 budget, along with the current $700 million expansion of the coal industry, commits an extra $18 million for an "...exploration program to develop major new resource provinces". In comparison, it only provides $47 million for investment in renewable energy initiatives."

Perhaps Queensland voters need to vote in politicians with a more balanced view on climate change at the next elections, rather than siding with the coal industries take?

Flooding is the worst

[MetricT]

Having endured a 1000 year flood in Tennessee last year, flooding of this level is destructive in ways unimaginable to those who haven't experienced it. In one day the Cumberland River turned into something resembling a white-water Mississippi River. Many had to be plucked from their homes via helicopter, and hundreds of homes and businesses were reduced to rubble. It crippled the local economy for months. In sheer destructiveness it exceeds an earthquake or hurricane, though mercifully limited in geographic extent. My deepest sympathies to anyone who has to go through something like that.

Re:Flooding is the worst

[khallow]

In sheer destructiveness it exceeds an earthquake or hurricane

If the Madrid earthquakes had hit today instead of 1811-1812, you wouldn't be saying that. There are few things more destructive than a big earthquake. The central US endured four earthquakes that are thought to have been well above magnitude 7. That would have killed a lot of people even as far away as Nashville or Saint Louis. Memphis would be a real mess.

Re:Flooding is the worst

[akayani]

What is different here in Queensland is the total area. The whole state is affected north to south and east to west. From memory Queensland is X3 the size of Texas. It's is affecting NSW and separate floods are occurring in Victoria. Meanwhile in Western Australia there are fires.

Re:Flooding is the worst

[pkphilip]

994mm rainfall in a 24-hour period in the most urbanised city in India -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharashtra_floods_of_2005

Re:Flooding is the worst

[pkphilip]

There was a total of 46 inches of rain in just two days.

Re:What Is This, The Weather Channel??!!

[Cwix]

"News for nerds, stuff that matters."

No where does it say only tech news or only science news. It says news.

Slashdot is focused on tech/science news, but that does not exclude other types of news. If you don't like the story don't read it.

Re:inb4

[Cwix]

Do you think that Gandhi, your namesake, would approve of you purposefully trying to cause a fight?

Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding. ~Gandhi

Completely wrong impression

[dbIII]

Australia and especially conservative Queenslanders are amongst the staunchest climate change denialists out there

Not if you compare to about anywhere in the USA outside of Al Gore's office. We get that reputation from a few loonies in an protectionist Agrarian Socialist party that was so low on members it has ended up attempting to merge with a city based conservative party with a heavy emphasis on uncontrolled free market capitalism. I don't think they'll be doing much more than infighting for a very long time.
Coal, sugar, beef, bananas and pineapples is about all we produce and coal is where the majority of the money is. The coal industry really pays most of the taxes. Thus the government while not denying climate change is stuck in the position where they are addicted to taxes on coal and don't want to do anything to lose that money. Most of the coal actually burnt in the state goes into the state government owned power stations so a tax on consumed carbon becomes the silly situation of a government putting a new tax on itself. It's a tiger by the tail. The only alternatives for government at the moment are flat out batshit insane climate deniers within the group I mentioned about that is too busy with it's own infighting over opposed ideologies to do anything constructive.

Anyway, the street is starting to fill up with water and high tide is still an hour away so it's time to move the car unless I want to risk it bumping against the floorboards.

Re:Completely wrong impression

[geekoid]

Nice tin foil hat you got there. I know far to many people in US government that work hard on coming up with a plan to deal with the incoming changes, they don't deny it, and they strive to fix it.

Re:Completely wrong impression

[simplexion]

I kind of agree. I can't wait to not see the huge donations made from the big mining companies. Hopefully they will prove me wrong and will give a considerable chunk of their profits to the state that they made their money from.

Re:Completely wrong impression

[totally bogus dude]

This page lists major donors to the state Government's flood relief appeal. There are some resources amongst the list.

Re:Completely wrong impression

[Anonymous Coward]

Additionally, a number of the mining companies have been housing people displaced by flooding in their mine camps, so its not just monetary donations being made.

Re:inb4

[Culture20]

Do you think that Gandhi, your namesake, would approve of you purposefully trying to cause a fight?

Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding. ~Gandhi

Dude, GP is Gandhi II! He's a one man recking crew. But he also knows how to party.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfvLcozLwtE

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

PTPnet

[jefurii]

A decentralized wireless mesh network like Portland's PTPnet would be just the thing for this. Of course, amateur radio enthusiasts live for times like this, have the tools, and are usually pretty organized.
http://www.personaltelco.net/WikiTour#The_Network

Re:inb4

[Gadget_Guy]

sarah palin blaming

Well she could have at least warned the Australian public that the floods were on the way. I'm sure that she can see Queensland from Alaska!

Re:inb4

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a jackass. Ignore him.

Nothing New

[sycodon]

If you've ever bought a home anywhere near water you will have seen references to a "100 year flood plain". Floods happen all the time and every 100 years or so on average you can epect one to be pretty damned big.

To say this is due to AGW is just an example of people having shit for brains.

Re:Nothing New

[dwywit]

I have to agree - I lived through the '74 floods in Brissie - anyone who subsequently chose to live on or near the areas flooded that time should be second on the list for charity - there will be others more deserving. Me? I moved uphill to Maleny.

The other tidbit to remember

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked with a guy from New Zealand (he was born there, but his parents were originally from India), and his father told him as a child, that there is nothing dangerous in New Zealand. No wild animals that will harm you, no poisonous spiders, snakes or anything like that. The only danger to yourself is you. He then added, Australia is a different place. New Zealand got none of the dangerous creatures. Australia got them all. So while you are trying not to drown in the 26 foot high (8 meter) floodwaters, remember your friend the poisonous Red Black Spider or the Funnelweb Spider in the tree, who will be cheerful with fangs ready as you float by, and also the large, fast Taipan (the snake with the words most poisonous venom), the Brown Snake, the Tiger Snake, and your good old friend the Saltwater Crocodile. I'm not trying to be flippant, its serious. While some of these might not kill you, most of them will. Its bad when your trying to stay afloat in the raging river, when suddenly a Saltwater Croc decides your leg might be a nice snack.

Re:The other tidbit to remember

[borad]

Don't forget the drop bears!

For All Curious International Users...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a big disaster, I've been trying to mirror traffic webcams from the the Metro and South Coast areas so residents can see up to date information regarding which roads are open. Problem is power has been cut off for the CBD which has knocked a bunch of cams down except the riverside ones. Really would be useful if those who aren't from Queensland would stop hitting the servers because the web cams themselves are already dropping like flies.

New McDonald opening?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just me that red "Aussie City Braces For Worst Food In 118 Years"?

And I thought "could it be worse than here"? (Ireland)

Lets not get too carried away

[Anonymous Coward]

Flooding is a normal part of life for many areas in Australia. Residents of those areas and emergency services are generally well prepared for flooding events which would normally be predicted well in advance. Most flooding does not do a great deal of damage and it is rare that lives are lost. Life goes back to normal once the water is gone and any cleanup or rebuilding is complete. Of course it is a stressful time for those involved. There are many years between floods in most areas and we do have a well established pattern of long periods of drought being followed by an extended period of high rainfall and flooding. The last drought lasted around five years in many areas which are now flooded.

I live about 45 minutes driving time south of the centre of Brisbane (population 2 million) and do know people that are at some risk but they are well prepared and handling the situation well.

What makes these floods unusual is the fact that there has been extreme cases of flash flooding in areas that wouldn't normally flood and this is where most lives have been lost. It is a tragedy for those people that have lost family members and they have my sympathy. Through the efforts of emergency services, sensible planning of individuals and a lot of luck, a far greater loss of life was avoided and that will come as a relief when this is all over.

The media are motivated to sensationalise their reports for the ratings that this brings.

Re:Lets not get too carried away

[walshy007]

The last time brisbane was flooded completely was 1974, before that around 1893.

The media are motivated to sensationalise their reports for the ratings that this brings.

All the better for people to take this seriously as opposed to laughing at it and deciding to go 'swimming'

It is not a common occurrence to have half the damn state under water man. Yes some outback people are used to it and have prepared for it, but do you seriously think city dwellers that have not seen a flood in their lifetime have all their affairs in order for it to be not a problem?

Communication has been good

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in Queensland and the area of effect is huge. Most of the major country towns like gympie, ipswich and toowoomba have been hit pretty badly. Unfortunately all that water is on it's way to Brisbane now where most of the Queensland population lives. I found it interesting that they've been using cellphone towers to automatically send text messages to everyone in an area about to get flooded (No registration required). It's also been interesting to watch on social networking sites, very effective way of knowing what bridges and roads are already flooded.

Re:Communication has been good

[Jeremy Lee]

Ha! They had to. The opt-in early warning site (http://brisbane.gov.au/earlywarning) broke sometime yesterday. All trace has since been removed that it was ever there.

Yes indeed, Facebook has actually served quite well under the strain, for both the Brisbane City Council and the Queensland Police, who grew surprisingly popular overnight, with many many new 'friends' and many many new 'likes'. Conversations are continuing in both:

http://www.facebook.com/BrisbaneCityCouncil
http://www.facebook.com/QueenslandPolice

And yet

[Anonymous Coward]

No looting, like with New Orleans! No niggers, no looting - vive la différence.

Muscle Power and Equipment

[highways]

For the locals from BrisVegas, please consider donating muscles rather than money (or persuade someone else that has muscles to donate).

Last night, there was a good response to call for people to fill sandbags. Post-flood, there will be a much needed effort to clean the mud from more than 40,000 homes and streets (at current estimates).

You can register at www.volunteeringqld.org.au but it's busy (a good thing!) so be patient.

If you have specific offers of heavy lifting equipment (e.g. excavators etc), the Lord Mayor has opened this email for offers: lordmayor (you know what's here) brisbane.qld.gov.au

ABC News 24 removed geoblocking

[Anonymous Coward]

ABC News 24 has removed geoblocking so it's now available for those of you viewing from other countries
http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/

Another "news for nerds" link ...

[Chuq]

Australian Federal Opposition Leader and extreme right-wing conservative Tony Abbott has been vocally opposed to the construction of Australia's National Broadband Network (a national fibre optic network), despite the fact that this position lost them the federal election last year.

Anyway, he is at it again.. using the floods to score cheap political points - http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/372807/floods_show_need_nbn_rethink_abbott/

And public opinion of this stunt isn't good! http://twitter.com/search#search?q=tony%20abbott%20nbn

All the information I have

[Jeremy Lee]

This is a couple of hours old now, but it was mostly accurate at the time I was trying to get it into wikipedia: (sorry if some wiki synax leaks through, I'm doing this fast)

The following information may be of help to those currently caught in the unfolding emergency.

=Evacuations=

* Evacuations of a number of Brisbane suburbs are likely tomorrow when the river peaks and it is planned to have an increased police presence in and around all evacuated properties.http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/floodrelief/flood-info-centre-updates-reports-warnings-advice-and-how-you-can-help/story-fn7ik2te-1225985436806

* Police are evacuating residents on Dohles Rocks Road, Griffin as well as Goburra Street at Rocklea and McKuulla Street and Skew Street at Sherwood. Stimpson Road and Brisbane Corso at Fairfield are closed. Mt Ommaney area under threat with the rising river levels - 11 January 2011 at 20:50

* An emergency alert has been issued for Dalby residents. Myall Creek will rise to 3.8 metres by 10pm 11/1/11. Concerned residents should evacuate to family, friends or evacuation centres. Call 46626666 for more information.http://www.facebook.com/notes/queensland-police-service/emergency-alert-issued-for-dalby-residents-thebigwetqldfloods/159601107421243 - Tuesday, 11 January 2011 at 20:22

* All members of the community who live or are currently near the Brisbane River at West End are advised to move to higher ground. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/australian-police-urge-brisbane-flood-evacuations-20110111-19m1s.html

* Evacuation Centre set up - RNA Showgrounds, Bowen Hillshttp://www.facebook.com/notes/queensland-police-service/evacuation-centre-set-up-rna-showgrounds-bowen-hills-qldfloods-thebigwet/159557807425573 Evacuation Centre set up - RNA Showgrounds, Bowen Hills The Red Cross says it will be able to accommodate about 1,000 people.

** A Brisbane City Council statement said the centre had been set up for those who wanted to evacuate of their own accord and could not be accommodated with family or friends. Residents were advised to take their own pillows and sheets, medication, important documents and spare clothing. Pets are unable to be accommodated at the evacuation centre.http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/weather/100000-to-lose-power-supermarkets-bare-as-flooding-crisis-continues-20110110-19l56.html

** Evacuations began in Brisbane last night with the RNA Showgrounds expected to house up to 3000 people. Concerns were raised that this space would be insufficient and more than 6000 people would possibly need temporary accommodation.http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/brisbane-braces-for-the-worst-as-record-floodwaters-loom/story-e6freon6-1225985939905

* Evacuation centre reported at Ipswich Showgrounds.http://kempsey.iprime.com.au/index.php/news/national-news/evacuations-under-way-across-southeast - more information needed

* The Queensland flood crisis has triggered evacuations in the heart of Brisbane, amid [[http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/queensland-floods/police-warn-that-queensland-floods-death-toll-will-exceed-20/story-fn7iwx3v-1225985503963 reports]] that another five bodies have been found.

* [http://www.facebook.com/pages/Queensland-Floods-Temporary-Accommodation-Help/100641316678419?v=wall Queensland Floods Temporary Accommodation Help] is a facebook group which contains offers of accomodation and contact details.

* [http://www.facebook.com/notes/queensland-police-service/from-bom-severe-weather-warning-cancellation/159618004086220 Severe Weather Warning Cancellation] Heavy rain areas have eased during the past few hours and further flash flooding due to rainfall is no longer expected. - 11 January 2011 at 22:04

=Affected Areas=

* Bereau of Meteorology [http://www.bom.gov.au/qld/warnings/ Queensland Warning Summary] containing [http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDQ20885.html flood warnings] for (at 7am, 12th January 2011):
** Fitzroy River
** Burnett River
** Mary River
*

Re:All the information I have

[Jeremy Lee]

Remember that this was mostly written from sources where 'tomorrow' is Thursday the 12th, and the latest updates are at about 2-3am on the 12th, so the information is now dating fast. Most of the links are still perfectly useful, and will usually take you to the latest information available from that site, so that's good.

This'll help

[Nazlfrag]

The love of field and coppice,
    Of green and shaded Lanes,
    Of ordered woods and gardens,
    Is running in your veins;
    Strong love of grey-blue distance,
    Brown streams and soft, dim skies -
    I know but cannot share it,
    My love is otherwise.

I love a sunburnt country,
    A land of sweeping plains,
    Of ragged mountain ranges,
    Of drought and flooding rains,
    I love her far horizons,
    I love her jewel sea,
    Her beauty and her terror -
    The wide brown land for me.

The tragic ring-barked forests
    Stark white beneath the moon,
    The sapphire-misted mountains,
    The hot gold hush of noon.
    Green tangle of the brushes
    Where lithe lianas coil,
    An orchids deck the tree-tops
    And ferns the crimson soil.

Core of my heart, my country!
    Her pitiless blue sky,
    When sick at heart around us
    We see the cattle die -
    But then the grey clouds gather
    And we can bless again
    The drumming of an army,
    The steady, soaking rain.

Core of my heart, my country!
    Land of the Rainbow Gold,
    For flood and fire and famine,
    She pays us back threefold;
    Over the thirsty paddocks,
    Watch, after many days,
    The filmy veil of greenness
    That thickens as we gaze.

An opal-hearted country,
    A wilful, lavish land -
    All you who have not loved her,
    You will not understand -
    Though Earth holds many splendours,
    Wherever I may die,
    I know to what brown Country
    My homing thoughts will fly.

Dorothea MacKellar (1906)

New Evacuation Centre Information

[Jeremy Lee]

Just found the Brisbane City Council Newsroom, which has recent updates. For example, this new information (to me) on evacuation centres:

Residents urged to bring own bedding to evacuation centres12/1/2011
Brisbane City Council advises that although there will be some bedding provided at evacuation centres across the city, residents are urged to bring their own bedding when accessing the centres.

Council expects high demand for access to the evacuation centres and recommends residents bring their own supplies for their own comfort.

Residents are encouraged to bring pillows and sheets, any medication, important documents such as insurance papers and spare clothing.

Two major evacuation centres have been activated at the RNA Showgrounds at Bowen Hills and QEII at Nathan.

Three smaller evacuation centres were activated this morning at St Catherine’s Anglican Church and the Salvation Army Church at Middle Park and Good News Lutheran Church and Jamboree Heights.

The evacuation centres have been established for those who wish to evacuate of their own accord and cannot be accommodated with family or friends. Please note there have been no forced evacuations.

Untreated sewage to enter floodwaters

[Jeremy Lee]

This is rather important to know about, too. It implies you should not be wading through the floodwaters with anything less than rubber overalls. You should especially not be wandering around in unprotective clothing, with any kind of injuries to your feet or legs that would admit cholera.

ie: In board shorts, getting hit in the legs with sharp flotsam, while standing in sewage contaminated water. Just don't do it.

Untreated sewage to enter floodwaters
12 January, 2011

Brisbane City Council has warned that as sewerage treatment plants become impacted by rising water, some untreated sewage will begin to enter floodwaters and is urging residents to stay away.

In addition to untreated sewage, floodwaters could also contain other ground contaminants that could be potentially dangerous.

Residents are urged however, to conserve water as much as possible to ensure reservoirs remain in maximum supply – this does not apply to infants, elderly residents and people with health issues.

For further information, contact the SEQ Water Grid Manager on 1800 771 497.
 

Revised Dead and Missing

[Jeremy Lee]

The Queensland Police Service have revised the number of missing people from about 90 down to, at last count, 48.

Unfortunately, the death toll has increased from ten to twelve.

Graph of Latest River Height at Ipswich

[Jeremy Lee]

This is quite beautiful in it's way: Latest River Heights for Bremer R at Ipswich

At the time of writing, the graph seems to have levelled out at what is expected (hoped) to be the peak of the Ipswich floods.

This curve should be repeated a few hours later in brisbane, when the water reaches us. How long this graph remains at it's currently insanely high mark will determine how much of Ipswich and Brisbane get washed away.

Isn't math pretty?

Telco-Update-Brisbane-Flood

[Jeremy Lee]

And over in Telco-Update-Brisbane-Flood is where all the telecommunication engineers are discussing the floods; specifically why their fibre is dark, who's fault it is, and which data centers are running on gens.

Completely wrong country!

[dbIII]

You appear to have either replied to the wrong post or left your brain in the other tinfoil hat :)
I was writing about the state government of Queensland in Australia. The only bit I mentioned about the USA is Al Gore who is only known in Australia for his movie. If you attempted to drop Australian rural politics into the USA it would look very strange indeed. We have a very different breed of political weirdo here (although Pauline Hanson is sort of a dumbed down and more extreme Sarah Palin). The very description "Agrarian Socialist" should tell you that such a person (very different again to Pauline who was from a different bunch of weirdos) would not be electable in the USA. Luckily in times of trouble they are shown to be useless and weak so they only get into power during the good times.

If you meant that the US government is taking climate change seriously then I agree with that and didn't mean to imply the opposite by my comparison. The US public however is a different story and it seems the majority don't accept it, and that's what I was comparing against with the lighthearted "Not if you compare to about anywhere in the USA outside of Al Gore's office". It was late, hadn't slept for a couple of days, and it was about as polite a response I could think of for the utter bastard "FriendlyLurker" above that was telling me it's my own fault my house was about to be half full of muddy water. Still tired so it's possible I've left my brain in my other tinfoil hat and it's probably a few days before I can get home and see what's left of it. It's no Katrina but still annoying.

Ah, strewth.

[Geminii]

This kind of thing is normal here Down Under. We use it to put out cities which are on fire.