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Carmack Says NGP Is a 'Generation Beyond' Smartphones
donniebaseball23 writes "id co-founder and all-around programming genius John Carmack, who has become a bigger fan of the iPhone and iOS platform recently, has given his take on the technical aspects of Sony's Next Generation Portable. He says that 'the Sony NGP [will] perform about a generation beyond smart phones with comparable specs.' Essentially, the fast approaching round of iOS and Android devices will still be well behind the capabilities of Sony's new handheld, which comes close to reproducing PS3-like visuals."
New details have emerged since the NGP's confirmation yesterday: there will be different versions of the device, all of which can connect over Wi-Fi, but only one of which has 3G connectivity. The battery life will be similar to the original PSP, and the NGP will have two proprietary memory card slots. Sony says they considered 3D for the device, but they don't see how it translates to portable gaming. 1up has a hands-on with the NGP, as well as video of Epic's Unreal Engine 3 tech demo.
"Carmack Says NGP Is a 'Generation Beyond' Smartphones"
Which means it probably has a price to match. Sadly.
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In the past, portable gaming systems were always WAY beyond cell phones and other mobile devices. The fact that they recently caught up must be very scary for Sony.
It must worry them even more that there are dozens of new smartphones every year, but the next PSP will be 5 years from now. That's a lot of competition.
Because that's what he just admitted... That smartphones are competition to the PSP. There's not much point in comparing them, otherwise.
Here's, let's try this: The PSP NGP is far more advanced than the space shuttle. ... Yeah, that just doesn't make sense. The PSP NGP is far inferior to a supercomputer. Yup, again, nonsense.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Device designed specifically for gaming out-games devices designed to perform multiple functions. News at 11.
And the technical aspcets of the PSP were also beyond any other similar device of its generation and yet it fall behind in sales to the NDS in every market. Is not about the power of the hardware, is about the entertainment that brings the games.
If it was about the entertainment, then NDS wouldn't be doing so well either. Most of the titles are shovelware games, primarily based on TV shows and other properties. But the DS is very popular among kids. The problem with the PSP was that it tried to provide the exact same experience as a home console on a handheld, so what you ended up with were watered down home console games. At least with the DS, you have that touch screen that provides for some game features unique to that product.
Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
"the NGP will have two proprietary memory card slots."
You'd think Sony would have learned by now.
In portable gaming device land, one generation is somewhere around 5 years, which would be OK for sony, since for the entire lifespan of the thing, it will lead smartphones in terms of specs. In mobile phone land, a generation is around 1 year (you know, to get the general cattle frothing at the mouth for the new shiny for a few months before their contract is up for renewal), see apple if you need evidence, 1 apple, 1 year, 1 iphone...
Now guess what happens when sony release the NGP next holiday season, only to be overtaken by phones within a year.
Also, everyone claiming this thing is as powerfull as a PS3, can i have some of what you are smoking?
People, what a bunch of bastards
Wow. TWO proprietary card slots? The game media I can understand, and even though it's proprietary I'd understand the secondary slot being Sony Memory Stick (I'd hate it, but it's sony, so I'd understand). But we're not even talking proprietary as in Sony Memory Stick, but as in an entirely new media format. Way to go, Sony.
Oh, and they don't see how 3D translates to portable gaming? Well, I'm not surprised. They didn't see how motion control translated to console video gaming either, and laughed about how useless it was for 3 years before their "hey, hey, look at me....we can do it too, and in the lamest way possible" release of Move. I wouldn't be surprised if 2 years down the line they are suddenly all over 3D portable gaming and end up implementing it on the NGP by shipping new games with a pair of red/blue glasses.
"The Jaguar is 64 bit! Not as powerful as the N64, but more powerful than the 32 bit Sony Playstation." - Jack Tramel, Atari
"The PS2 will be able to do Toy Story graphics in real time!" - Sony
"The PS3 will be so great, people will WANT to pay $700 to get it!" - Ken Kutaragi
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me 4 times, shame on both of us.
Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
James Kirk had better writers (actual science fiction writers like Harlan Ellison).
Sony sure has screwed-up. They had the #1 console for ten years. They sold nearly 300 million units and smashed the competition (nintendo64, sega saturn, gamecube, xbox). And then threw it all away with bad ideas and an overpriced PS3. Not that PS3 is a bad console but a release price of $700 is ridiculously high.
Now it appears they are repeating the PS3 mistake with the PSP-2. They ought to learn a lesson from Nintendo - less powerful but cheap consoles == something kids can afford.
Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
...And in completely unrelated news, Sony has just announced that the NGP will ship with a remake of Doom (and have no other titles available at launch).
DS has the biggest library of JRPG's on any platform to date... Atlas has been providing some very entertaining, quality products for the entire of the DS's lifespan. If you think the DS is for kids you are talking on hear say, not actual fact.
There are vast numbers of crappy DS games, it's true.
However, there are also lots and lots of non-crappy DS games.
Remember Sturgeon's Law: Ninety percent of everything is crap.
Also, every portable console EVER has had proprietary storage - why should this one be different?
For the game media? Sure, I'll accept proprietary, But the secondary slot is for non-game data....like, say, photos taken with the camera, and other data from applications. If you are going to have those stored to built in, non-removable memory, we don't like that but we'd understand. But if you are going to be good enough to put it on removable media, then use something that's already standard. For crying out loud, we've got SD, mini SD, and micro SD. All have become standard and are used in tons of devices, we can all read them in our computer's existing card reader, and they cover a nice range of sizes for whatever size device you might want to squeeze it into. Don't want to go with SD. Well, OK, we've already got our proprietary Sony memory stick format, which come in full size and the smaller pro duo size, and our existing card readers will handle it. But even their own proprietary format isn't proprietary for them, so they've got to come out with something else brand new?
There are vast numbers of crappy DS games, it's true.
However, there are also lots and lots of non-crappy DS games.
Simply put: there are lots and lots of DS games.
>>>should be 65C816
Thanks. And I accidentally said two days ago that I own a Windows 3 laptop with 80386. I meant the 80386SX with the 16 bit bus. I apologize. ;-)
Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
Don't forget that they sold over 60 million PSP units, which isn't exactly shabby either. That's more than N64 and GameCube combined. It's just that this number looks kind of bleak compared to the staggering 144 million DS units Nintendo sold.
Since N64 and Gamecube were both considered relative failures, that's not so impressive.
It doesn't matter if you think that Carmack doesn't know how to make a game. It is undeniable that the man is a god when it comes to developing game engines and that is what makes him an authority on the potential for various gaming hardware.
It's not a smartphone, nobody said it was.
Mada mada dane.
Don't forget that they sold over 60 million PSP units, which isn't exactly shabby either. That's more than N64 and GameCube combined.
Why are you comparing handheld sales to consoles?
Wow, so merely liking a platform that is unpopular with slashdot makes you a fanboy now? Is it possible for him to genuinely find iOS compelling for what he is doing in his line of work without him being what you are equating with some brainwashed, blind worshipper. Of all people to accuse of being "hypnotised by marketing" John Carmack is pretty low down on the list of likely candidates.
So to be an apple fanboy you need to:
* work on the platform and express that you quite like it, producing some pretty good stuff.
* ask a question that you don;t know the answer to, re: android and iOS app sales in a consumer demographic that he is interested in (people going to a con named after a game he created)
* express surprise at the answer received, one that points to him possibly reevaluating how much energy to put into porting his new engine over, given that a loose poll at QuakeCon suggests that sales on Android are as high as they are on iOS among his target demographic.
* Profit?
I'm not seeing how you can twist this into "he's an Apple Fanboy" unless you really just mean "anyone who says anything positive about iOS is a fanboy" which is probably it.
A smart phone without a contract is $500. This'll retail for $250 and drop in price.
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I was excited yesterday when I mistook that for an SD card. Proprietary sony? Really? Again? Ahh well...it's still better than those stupid UMDs...
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Orginal Gameboy almost sold 119 million, Gameboy Color sold 118 million, Gameboy Advanced sold 81.51 million. This is not including the other variations to the Gameboy series, like the Micro, Light, Advanced SP etc. Not forgetting Nintendo had competitors like the Sega Gamegear.
60 million of all PSPs over 7 years is shabby.
This one should be different because, as is obvious to everyone, this is more and more going to have to compete with mobile phones. A huge selection of which allow generic SD memory use. It's just one extra inconvenience of buying this for gaming over a good phone (which, as a bonus, operates as a phone).
What has Carmack done for me lately? Last thing of his I played was Quake 3 Arena.
I like traffic lights
I see you know nothing about which you speak.
DS is popular as hell with adults. unless you think "stop smoking coach", my cooking instructor, and the exercize and brain apps are all for kids...
Johny has been chain smoking cince he was 5, time to get him of Camel non filters.
Adults make up a huge chunk of the DS market.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
and almost NO PSP games.
Simply look at Gamestop, a wall for DS, a tiny 2 foot wide section for PSP.
PSP is a failure because there are no games for it, and what was released sucked bad.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Because far more Honda Civics sold compared to 6 karat diamond rings!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Posted here in full:
"Low level APIs will allow the Sony NGP to perform about a generation beyond smart phones with comparable specs."
Carmack isn't saying that the hardware in the NGP is a generation ahead of smart phones. He's saying that because of the APIs available to developers they'll be able to utilise that hardware more effectively (specifically that a developer will be able to squeeze an extra generation's worth of performance out of hardware with approx. the same specifications), which makes sense once you consider that the games are pretty much running on the bare metal, and that the entire system is optimised for gaming.
George Wright
They said it's got a 3G chip in it. We don't know yet if, like the iPad, it will still be unable to do voice, but that only makes sense in Apple's case because you'd look an idiot holding against your head. And the descriptions so far suggest they expect everyone to take out a data contract, if not a voice one.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Smartphones are only one generation away from achieving console-like performance. Counting in IT generations that's what, 2 years? Sony should be worried.
I bet Sony will have learnt lots from the PS3 fiasco and this thing will be even harder to unlock.
I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
Sony has lost their minds... again. Why do they think power is the key to gaming? If you make your device look like a smartphone, have similar functions to a smartphone, and even use 3G, then most consumers are going to compare you to a smartphone. Your $500 gaming device will be going up against Angry Birds, a cute and free app that works on my phone. Most phones also play Farmville and Mafia Wars too. Say what you will about these games, but they are wildly popular, free, and easy to use on my phone. So your device only plays games? Meh. Nintendo will win because they are differentiating themselves by using 3D (with no glasses). If it plays all of the DS games nicely, it is looked upon as an upgrade to the current handheld. 3D makes it a gaming console in the minds of the consumers because no smartphones are even planned to have this functionality. Smartphones for simple games, Nintendo for 3D games.
"Ones and zeros were everywhere. I even think I saw a two!" - Bender
I think the point was making a comment like "wow more than two people buy from the android market" is something only a fanboy would say, because it is complete BS.
But can it render Toy Story in real-time? That's the real question.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
That's not a quote though, at least not one that has been attributed to him by the poster. You don't quote someone by saying "he was all like" and then throwing in a cheap bit of hyperbole unless that is exactly what he said. I can't find an actual quote via google right now, but I am willing to be corrected. This is how Apple "facts" get started on /. - someone posits something like that carmack 'quote' and it is accepted as fact from then onwards. The phrase is obviously BS, and it may or may not be an actual quote. I suspect it is not, and if Carmack did express surprise at the number of people buying from the Android Marketplace that he wouldn't have worded it as flippantly as that. I strongly suspect it has either been enormously distorted to try and justify the OP's assertion that he is an "apple fanboy", or just regular outright falsehood.
I've recently looked at Android API documentation, and it seems to be a rather clean and understandable design. I've dabbled a bit with the SDK and running my code on one of those cheap Augen Android-based tablets from Kmart, and going past "hello world" was quite painless. Then, for reasons I can't quite understand, I seem to puke a little bit every time I see Objective C code. It just looks so darn ugly. For whatever reason I just can't stand some of Apple's APIs. Never mind that they plainly don't document some -- you'd think -- pretty basic parts of their API, at least on the desktop. Case in point: just try to find out how to open up a raw socket on a selected network interface and you'll see what I mean. One shouldn't need to google for that. By "selected" network interface I mean you know the name like en0, but the interface has no IP or anything else.
And that comes from a guy who doesn't mind seeing legacy LISP code (like Maxima sources that I used to browse quite a bit), who doesn't mind various more- and less-pure functional languages (OCaml, Haskell) and functional "hacks" like LINQ, and who can wholeheartedly embrace "customizations" like xmos's XC parallellizable variant of C. I can even stand most of IEC 61131-3 languages. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
You need to read those descriptions again. Only one model will offer 3G, and it may not even be offered in all countries, depending on what deals Sony gets with the different carriers.
Mada mada dane.
And as long as someone has brought up your sig... what about the Atari 5200? It's the original HUEG console!
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Where did he attack Sony? The part where he praised their new handheld console's performance? If so I'd like to be attacked more often.
Mada mada dane.
And yet Carmack still said that NGP is BETTER than his beloved apple product, despite it being made by the people who brought you the hated PS3 in all its terribleness. For a fanboy, he sure is even handed.
I think ARM is a great choice for mobile gaming, they do computing performance/watt quite well and apparently such things exist as 4 core ARM chips with the memory controller attached to each core, meaning you can write a standard multi-threaded app and it just works, unlike that SPU DMA->register file mapping nonsense that pissed everyone off when writing PS3 software. I have no idea why they didn't just solder two of these things into the PS3 and make everyone's life easier (I guess that was is a while ago). I am not surprised Carmack likes it so much.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
I think the days are numbered for dedicated game machines when you can get Phones and tablets that will do games "good enough" for most and do much more besides.
If I stack a 7" Android tablet against the NGP. I see an open computer with plenty of free, low cost software vs a proprietary game machine with expensive proprietary apps, expensive proprietary media. I just don't think this model is really going to remain relevant anymore.
I am quite sure he prefers the iphone platform for the same exact reasons I do. The bottom line is performance. If you are a game coder being able to optimize every single clock cycle is not a nice to have feature but a must. Yes I know you can do native code development on the android but it is still a bastardization at best. It is the number one reason that iOS dominates mobile phone / platform gaming.
Got Code?
Thanks to the explosion of Smartphones, Nintendo and Sony no longer have the edge in performance/watt in portable gaming. Since portable platforms are constrained mostly by power, this means any performance edge they enjoyed previously is gone now.
I'm really surprised that Nintendo didn't just jump on the bandwagon and go Tegra 2 (or some other standardized platform) - it would have reduced their own development costs, and guaranteed them good platform support and upgrades. Going with that ancient PICA200 GPU and their own CPU may make for a limited gaming experience, and at $249 MSRP, they can't afford that today.
I have a feeling Sony is going to make the same mistake with the NGP, and it's really all for nothing. Fab processes are the limiting factor these days in power consumption, so you might as well leverage an already efficient design from another company.
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
I work with id Tech 3 a lot (Quake 3 engine). It is far more flexible and powerful than most people realize and it's still capable of producing gorgeous visuals. id Tech 4 is id's last generation engine and it looks better than a lot of modern games. Go look up Brink on Youtube. I can't wait to see what he's done with id Tech 5.
As for open source, at last they've done it. How many other companies can you name who have opened the number of engines id has? Look at what kind of great stuff it's lead to (ie. Warsow, Alien Arena, Nexuiz, XReal, Wold of Padman, OpenArena, Smokin' Guns, Tremulous and on and on). Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
How is John Carmack relevant to games anymore, especially smartphone games or handhelds? Before you mod me flamebait, see if you can answer that question. See if you can find something he has worked on in the past 20 years that isn't a re-make of Doom or Quake, and that is somehow related to handheld devices. I'm not flaming, I just want someone to explain why what Carmack says has any importance anymore. Surely there are better people suited to making determinations about handheld devices...
Except that none of us are buying Sony products anymore remember?
We shouldn't even pay attention to Sony related PR. Pretend they don't exist.
Heh... It's not even really next generation except for gaming handhelds right at the moment. All it would take to have a smartphone "catch up" is grab the SoC for the NGP or a similar one and put it in a phone.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
the GB didn't have to compete against real competitors. The Lynx, the Game Gear, et al. had a lousy lack luster game line up compared to the PSP's in relative terms. There were nearly no must-haves in the GG's lineup, or Lynx's. PSP? I could name a few. Not to mention the business model that Sony has is way superior to Atari or Sega's. Given that Sony's still making hardware.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
As soon as its unlocked ;)
You mean 45 minutes after it's released?
I find myself missing the use of physical buttons. Don't get me wrong, the iPhone is great for things like Angry Birds, Risk, etc, but I just find the lack of any physical buttons difficult for some other types of games.
Disclaimer; I own an iPhone, DS and PSP.
The point of his comment was that Sony will expose low-level APIs, unlike Apple's prohibition of directly using the machine.
touch-screen only toys, with terrible ergonomics that only support shallow, gimmicky games.
and for 99% of people out there,that's more than enough,as they only want a couple of casual games to kill some time while waiting for the bus / train. Or check their FarmVille while on the go. These people are already happy with anything like a Simon-interface, as long as it has shiny eye candy graphics and connects to facebook.
iphone and android smartphone are already doing well in this area and have the advantage to also work as a telephone,a PDA and a gps, while being subsidised.
for hardcore games, they already have an XBox 360 or a PS3 in the comfort of their living room allowing them to play in all the 1080p HD glory while lying on the couch.
and what is left between, on this markted, is already completely owned by nintendo. (thanks among other to a huge library of titles, a big amount of 3rd party developpers and some backward compatibility across generations of consoles)
sony will have a though time to position themselves in this generation of portable consoles. Unless they bundles it with EverCrack client, or cross licence a port of World of Warcrack. And have the device run an unlocked Android (but with the proprietary low level API extensions - on which Carmack is drooling - available only to signed applications) somewhat mimmicking the gameos/otheros situation of the PS3 (previously, TapWave's Zodiac has also gone this way, co
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Also, everyone claiming this thing is as powerfull as a PS3, can i have some of what you are smoking?
they won't because their joint is really really small. And they don't like to share it among too many people.
more seriously : the NGP's powerVR will have to power a screen which has less than a quater of what the PS3 drives (900x480 vs 1920x1080p). In addition to that, as said pixel are small, it's very likely that some eye candy will be turned down as it's unnecessary/unnoticeable). Last but not least, the technological jewell inside the PS3 is the Cell processor. The GPU is somewhat related to NVidida GeForce 7 generation (not even the unified sharders nor the massive SIMD of its successors).
So this exactly as true as the original claim that the PS3 could do Final Fantasy movie real time (true if you read the fine print saying "with lower res textures, lower polycount models, and less applied effects onto a standard definition TV")
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
It's not a smartphone, nobody said it was.
Well ACTUALLY, Mr. Carmack decided he wanted to draw a comparison to Smartphones now didn't he? I was suggesting that comparing the NGP to Smartphones is pointless because the NGP lacks the very functionality that makes a Smartphone, a Smartphone. A better comparison would have been to the iPad itself. I have no idea how that got modded Offtopic. How dare I mention phones in a topic where TFA compares the NGP to Smartphones!
The remakes of Doom and Quake have always been used to show off the newest engine and subsequently licence that to third parties.
And who is the mastermind behind these new engines?
That's why he still matters. A lot.
Oh, and also the fact that he tends to release the old stuff as FLOSS once he does not need it any more. Anyone else doing that?
Well, except for the "is a phone" part.
Breaking: The PS3 is generations ahead of all smartphones, too!
I have no idea how many people buy an iPhone just so they can play games, but it's likely not very many; I suspect more buy the phone because it can make calls (and play games and do other nifty stuff and everyone thinks it's cool).
Android I'm not so sure about. I literally do not know a single person who uses an Android-based phone (although I want to get one, if only ATT didn't hamstring their offering's functionality!).
...to remove/disable one or more bullet-point marketed features in the name of security and anti-piracy.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
Despite the hype, the iphone still is a superb piece of hardware/software. Hate on it all you want its a very nice piece of kit. I am an avid Palm Pre user and my next device will probably be android, but to say the iphone is for teenage girls is just stupid.
Good-bye
Physics:
Do you really think that, on a 5" screen, people will be able to distinguish between a full-world "spring-mass" physics system, and a few pre-rendered animations with some simple rag-doll approximations ?
Also, unlike the PS3's GeForce 7, the PowerVR 5 has modern unified shaders, meaning some acceptable OpenCL support (Imagination Tech are on the OpenCL board) so offloading computations could be done to the GPU (instead of Cell's SPUs, or instead to ARM's Neon).
And we're speaking of a modern PowerVR with a unified shader and a honking big SIMD under the hood vs. a GeForce which is not only several generation older - and that is a lot in the GFX world - but even a hardware paradigm older (it's an older pipe design with separate shaders), it might not be as powerfull as Cell's SPUs, but it is still capable enough for the basic kind of physics which is enough eye-candy on a 5" screen.
AI:
Same stuff - do you really expect a full scale strategy game with large armies of thousands each battling each other with complete realistic simulation of each unit ? If you really attempt this, this is going to look like a cloud of nervous flies on the 5" screen.
My gut feelings is that, when you have less screen estate and less inputs, you need to produce less content to show. That means directly less pixels to be computed on-screen. But also less behind-the-scene calculation to produce the content, because you would aim for simplier more casual games.
I would probably more expect LocoRoco-type of games, or at most an arcade oriented over-the-shoulder 3rd-person hack'n'slash game - albeit both with much better graphics than current PSP incarnations, rather than a full fledged StarCraft II-like game. It just better suits the form factor.
I do realistically think that the NGP could produce a similar "Wow" effect as the PS3 did when it arrived on the market, due to a combination of lower expectations for that platform/form factor and of more modern hardware available.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
You puke a little bit because Objective-C was hot shit... in 1989. Programming for iOS is more annoying and backward than programming for PalmPilot circa 1997. Steve's tremendous ego at play here again. He's got to prove to everyone that he was right about Next, and the whole world was wrong/foolish to castigate him for producing over-priced, under-powered machines. He's a hack who's been a mediocre businessman for 30+ years now who finally stumbled into success by (surprise!) selling products customers want for a price they're barely willing to pay. Even with iPhones he had to be dragged kicking and screaming 'til he finally added 3G and included technology to allow games to be developed on that platform. I surmise he is still smarting from the fact that lots of people play games on his beloved iOS.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
How is the native code in Android a bastardization? Most iOS game developers program all their functionality in native libraries in C or C++ using Objective-C for only those functions that are required. How is that any different from creating C or C++ native libraries for Android and using Java for the bare minimum functionality?
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
As far as I'm concerned, Objective-C was not ever hot, unless you mean hot like radioactive. On my personal klude-o-meter it beats things like MetaSQL hands-down. IMHO if you can beat a straitjacketed industry-born mindless f-up like the latter (alien syntax spice FTW), that means something. There should be a hall of fame or something for such things ;) I'd have personally liked it better if Apple bet on, say, Symbolics, and used their technology. At least they'd get a powerful, extensible core language.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Ah, right. My mistake - I clearly missed the mention of a non-3G version. That's a relief.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
But then, neither the iPod Touch nor iPhone can do Flash, and Skype works fine on both. They just didn't put a mic on the iPad, for whatever reason.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"