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Egypt Cuts the Net, Net Fights Back

GMGruman writes "Egypt's cutoff of the Net enrages the Netizenry, who are finding a bunch of ways — high tech and low tech — to fight back, from dial-up to ham radio, from mesh networks to Twitter. Robert X. Cringely shows how the Net war is being waged, and asks, Could it happen at home, too?" Sure, it could. On the same topic, reader dermiste writes "In reaction to the Egyptian government crackdown on the Internet, the French non-profit ISP French Data Network set up a dial-up Internet access. This way, anyone in Egypt who has access to a analog phone line and can call France is able to connect to the network using the following number: +33 1 72 89 01 50 (login: toto, password: toto)."

232 comments

  1. 3.2.1. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Slashdot that number!

    1. Re:3.2.1. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey - doesn't anyone want to talk about about the fact that the good old US of A is supporting a brutal regime that murders and tortures its own people? What happened to freedom and all that stuff?

      If America doesn't really care about these things then it makes you wonder what's going on when they intervene to 'bring democracy' to countries around the world?

      Please tell me that the U.S.A. hasn't turned into a force for evil in the world?

    2. Re:3.2.1. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If America doesn't really care about these things then it makes you wonder what's going on when they intervene to 'bring democracy' to countries around the world?

      What's going on is certain rich and powerful Americans stand to benefit: in the case of Iraq it was people high up in the oil, war and religion industries (i.e. Bush's friends).

      But it is interesting to speculate what the USA would/could do if it actually cared about democracy: what if the USA offered Mubarak a way out (e.g. 10 billion dollars, a hundred year lease on some land in Texas, and immunity from extradition) - on the condition that he transitioned Egypt to a democracy within the next year or so? What if the USA had made that offer to Saddam Hussein - considering the costs and length of the war in Iraq, the USA could have waited a decade or so until the next uprising in Iraq and then offered Saddam a few hundred billion dollars and still come out ahead (both time and money - not to mention lives).

      There's a lot of people who take it as an article of faith that violence is the only way to influence people - but I'd be a lot more convinced of that if the non-violence was tried first.

    3. Re:3.2.1. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are awesome for even suggesting this. This may work, especially now after the world witnessed the execution of Hussein.

      "Step down and accept the riches or we will come in and kill you."

      The thing is, insurgency within Iraq is not isolated to Saddam alone. Look at all the IEDs and suicide bombers who still kept up resistance even after Hussein was captured and executed.

      I think you may be missing an important variable within this equation you've developed.

    4. Re:3.2.1. by h00manist · · Score: 1

      Hey - doesn't anyone want to talk about about the fact that the good old US of A is supporting a brutal regime that murders and tortures its own people? What happened to freedom and all that stuff?

      If America doesn't really care about these things then it makes you wonder what's going on when they intervene to 'bring democracy' to countries around the world?

      Please tell me that the U.S.A. hasn't turned into a force for evil in the world?

      Wake up. Freedom and all that stuff have always been ok so long as they dont interfere with "national interests", basically meaning strategic military spots, fights with whatever the local enemies that have built up are, business interests, a few "allies" and friends interests, and whatever the order of the day is. So freedom and all that exists, sure, and it's always "number one", sure, so long as none or all the other number ones don't come up as a priority "in this isolated case". In the "isolated case" of egypt, many in Washington, and Israel, are strongly against democracy. They are afraid democracy would elect someone unfriendly to them, and that's just not the "democratic" result they desire. As if that were democracy at all. You don't choose who runs or who wins in real democracy. Most countries, US included, don't even have real democracy, it's intensely stage-managed, not too unlike "reality show" nonsense. Just try saying you want to set up another political party in the US, or even saying that you don't agree with any of the existing ones, and see the response you get. People look at you like you're from outer space, just for saying a new political party is needed.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    5. Re:3.2.1. by will_die · · Score: 1

      You mean like Reform Party of years ago? Or you want something that has pulled members from both of the main political parties, how about the Tea Party.

  2. France has a non-profit ISP? by irockash · · Score: 1

    I didn't know that one existed...

    1. Re:France has a non-profit ISP? by McTickles · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah it is an association where members split the overall cost of the network.

      I'll possibly go with them eventually because other ISPs in france insist on making you pay for services you do not want, like TV...

  3. What's the Catch? by Rinnon · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Call me Paranoid, but an ISP based in France, that is Not for Profit, is offering Dial Up to anyone in Egypt? Is this out of the goodness of their hearts, or are they charging an arm and a leg? I mean, I know they're Not for Profit, but that doesn't always meant they offer all services free. If they ARE offering it for free... I can't help but wonder what their angle is. I mean, good on them but... why? Also, I wonder how this is going to affect relations between Egypt and France, if at all.

    1. Re:What's the Catch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you're calling internationally... if anyone makes money off your call it's the Egyptian phone company and maybe the French phone company, not the ISP.

    2. Re:What's the Catch? by McTickles · · Score: 3, Informative

      They ARE offfering it for free, it is an association, there is nothing in it for them. They are fierce defenders of net neutrality, they have been around for quite a while now.

    3. Re:What's the Catch? by Aldrikh · · Score: 2

      The number to call is a normal landline, so the person in egypt would still have to pay the communication itself, but appart from that, it is free.

    4. Re:What's the Catch? by FourthAge · · Score: 1

      Their dialup capacity is probably 99% idle these days. Might as well offer it for something.

      Speaking of paranoia, I wonder if the Egyptian telcos have any way to log callers to that number? I wonder if they might ever be persuaded to hand over the logs to the authorities.

      --
      The tao of democracy: the government you can vote for is not the real government.
    5. Re:What's the Catch? by danabnormal · · Score: 1

      I see where you're coming from, but its a sad state of affairs the world is in when a charitable donation of information for what can now be considered an oppressed population must mean theres a gain for the doner. Sad times.

    6. Re:What's the Catch? by houghi · · Score: 1

      Why would there be a catch? The cost on their side will be minimal. And why not?
      So all Egypt needs to do is block all calls to that number and the range of numbers around it.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:What's the Catch? by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 1

      if?
      It's virtually certain.

      Also, the number is probably already blocked.

      --
      FGD 135
    8. Re:What's the Catch? by ryzvonusef · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also, the number is probably already blocked.

      If you read their comments there are links to other alternatives, including this interesting link that some how uses cellphones[1], and more people are pitching in.

      Also, they have offered some statistics:

      Some figures:

      The first calls arriving from Egypt (code +20) are seen around 19:30. One every 2 or 3 minutes.

      Rarely more than one simultaneous connection. Most are short-term (probably related to the costs of communications).

      Also saw some other sources (Iraq, Algeria, UAE, among others)

      [1]: http://manalaa.net/dialup

      --
      I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
    9. Re:What's the Catch? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      So all Egypt needs to do is trace all calls to that number and the range of numbers around it.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    10. Re:What's the Catch? by rtfa-troll · · Score: 2

      I guess you have noticed this thing called a "phone bill" that you pay. This is made from billing records and traditionally was directly related to the calls you made (nowaday's, with flat rate, it's more complex than that). Every telephone exchange in existence automatically records the outgoing calls you make. Even 99% of PBXs (with the exception of a few where the users deliberately throw away the information).

      I wonder if volunteers messing around in this area are not generally doing lots of harm. At the very least try to give your users plausible deniability by offering your lines for use by both gamers and professionals or please warn them to try from somewhere they won't be traced to. E.g. warn your users to use a public connection or try to tap into the line of someone else who isn't willing to join the protests (best of all a security official's line - getting the suspicion spread around will help other people to get off by denying they knew about the calls). The same goes for all the stuff like ESR was doing in Iran. If it doesn't look like commercial HTTPS you shouldn't be using it without at least basic identity hiding measures. These measures are very difficult for non techical people, so just rushing in and providing support at the last moment is a disaster. Instead the safer way has to be to provide locals with training in advance.

      I'm a bit loath to criticise here since I think it's very important that people do something and don't just sit on the sidelines, but I wish the people trying to organise communications were just a little more careful.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    11. Re:What's the Catch? by commodore6502 · · Score: 0, Troll

      I don't know why you're surprised. DIALUP internet only costs me $7/month. It's not that much of a burden for the Non-profit ISP to offer free access to egyptians. And the datarate is only ~30k via analog lines, so you could carry over 300 users in the space of one DSL or cable internet line.

      Also:

      We ought to start shipping the Egyptian citizens some guns. The only thing that will cure their ills is the same thing that cured the Czech Republic - several guns aimed at Nicolae Ceausescu's body. They even posted video of him gasping his last breath on the television and internet.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    12. Re:What's the Catch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A sad state? More like 50 of them.

    13. Re:What's the Catch? by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      P.S.

      Correction - Dialup is FREE from Netzero or Juno. It's so old and slow that it's virtually no burden at all for an ISP to offer free service:
      http://www.juno.com/start/landing.do?page=www/free/index
      http://isp.netscape.com/

      Now that would be ironic -- a revolution that takes place at 56Kbps. Holy AOL, Batman.

      Doesn't surprise me. Dialup is a poor choice for watching youtube, but perfectly fine for accessing the internet if you're only interested in sharing text and images with the outside world.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    14. Re:What's the Catch? by p0p0 · · Score: 1

      Maybe France sympathizes with the Egyptians. They are familiar with a revolution.

    15. Re:What's the Catch? by eric_herm · · Score: 2

      Yeah, they have nothing better to do that finding who call a number in France. The riots are not more urgent, nor are the medias, the economy, and likely organizing the escape of Mubarack. Nor is more urgent to have a new governement...

    16. Re:What's the Catch? by the_cosmocat · · Score: 1

      Yep. Exactly. To add an information it's the oldest ISP still in activity (but not as big as commercial ISP and not the same infrastructure but perhaps with more moral values)

    17. Re:What's the Catch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "The only thing that will cure their ills is the same thing that cured the Czech Republic - several guns aimed at Nicolae Ceausescu's body."

      The Czech Republic, Romania. What is the difference?

    18. Re:What's the Catch? by Zedrick · · Score: 1

      How would guns solve anything, and what does Nicolae Ceausescu (former dictator of Romania) have to do with the Czech Republic? The Czechoslovakian "revolution" was peaceful - civilized people don't need guns to overthrow their government.

    19. Re:What's the Catch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're also familiar with Human Rights. You know, that thing that supports terrorism?

    20. Re:What's the Catch? by lul_wat · · Score: 1

      Muhammed Don't Lose That Number
      You don't wanna call nobody else
      Send it off in a letter to Yusef

      --
      Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
    21. Re:What's the Catch? by commodore6502 · · Score: 2

      Ooops. Me not perfekt. ;-) (shrug) I hear the exact same thing from europeans all the time: "New Jersey... Virginia... eh, what's the difference? It's over there somewhere."

      BTW there was no reason to mod -1 Troll on BOTH my messages, especially the second one about Dialup internet costing virtually nothing to provide.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    22. Re:What's the Catch? by lul_wat · · Score: 1

      They're also familiar with commiting terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior so .. you know .. I'm sure they'll have a lot to talk about, on the phoneline.

      --
      Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
    23. Re:What's the Catch? by RCL · · Score: 1

      thing that cured the Czech Republic - several guns aimed at Nicolae Ceausescu's body.

      So Czechs killed Romanian dictator? Or were they just posing with his body to scare their own authorities? And Romania posted videos to internet in 1989? Was it .GIF or .FLI? Uh.

    24. Re:What's the Catch? by sxpert · · Score: 1

      Caeucescu was in Romania, not Czech Republic...

    25. Re:What's the Catch? by commodore6502 · · Score: 5, Informative

      >>>are they charging an arm and a leg? I mean, I know they're Not for Profit, but that doesn't always meant they offer all services free. If they ARE offering it for free... I can't help but wonder what their angle is.
      >>>

      I don't know why you're surprised. DIALUP internet only costs me $7/month. Netzero and Juno offer it for free (see links below). It's not that much of a burden for the Non-profit ISP to offer free access to egyptians.

      And the datarate is only ~30 kbit/s via analog lines, so you could carry over 300 users in the space of one DSL or cable customer.

      http://www.juno.com/start/landing.do?page=www/free/index
      http://isp.netscape.com/

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    26. Re:What's the Catch? by Daimanta · · Score: 2

      The government is bounded to doing one single thing at a time. They have, if they are skilled at it, the ability to multi-task like no other because they command a large army of civil servants.

      When analysing a revolution there is rarely one single thing that determines the success or failure of overthrowing the seated power. A (current) government therefore has the interest in controlling the flow of information in the broadest sense of the word. If Muburak and his cohorts have paid attention to the role of internet in the flow of information to a new generation(with new predominantly people under 30 years), they will make damn sure that they restrict access to unfavourable information, in this case the french dial-in ISP. In fact, if I was an employee of the digital division of the government of Mubarak(and loyal), I would immediatly place a phonecall to the person who has the ability to monitor/block this address.

      This factor might be one of them that determines whether this revolution will become like the one in Tunesia or the one in Iran.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    27. Re:What's the Catch? by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>videos to internet in 1989? Was it .GIF or .FLI? Uh.

      There were videos on the internet in 1989. They were IFF or ANIM format for Commodore Amiga and Atari ST computers. (IBM PC and Mac were not powerful enough to play them.) Ahhh yes... my first porn download.

      Anyway..... of course I was not talking about 1989. I was talking about the video you can find NOW of the execution of the dictator (youtube, googlevideo, etc).

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    28. Re:What's the Catch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how is the American Presidente Felipe Calderón going to handle the current Egypt crisis?

    29. Re:What's the Catch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure that sinking that ship was the French military's finest hour. Greenpeace are ecoterrorists, fanatics that are as bad as the people they oppose, and occasionally worse than them.

    30. Re:What's the Catch? by GCsoftware · · Score: 2

      Being that the Czechoslovakian revolution was peaceful and led to a prosperous modern state, and the Romanian one was bloody and messy and led to a clusterfuck that persists to this day, I'd say you were flat-out wrong. I don't think pushing the Egyptians into a civil war is a great idea to be honest...

    31. Re:What's the Catch? by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Honestly considering the state of the infrastucture in Cairo, I'd be amazed if dialup got past 14.4 Kbaud, mine never got past 33.4 and usually connected at 28.8 in Michigan. now the telephone lines in are what costs for dialup rather than the data. As far as popping a cap in Hosni Mubarak's happy ass, I don't see any possible replacements that wouldn't be worst, no sense in replacing a secular dictator with a religious dictator.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    32. Re:What's the Catch? by formfeed · · Score: 1

      Caeucescu was in Romania, not Czech Republic...

      You obviously forgot that the Securitate had secret tunnels.

    33. Re:What's the Catch? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      However, I doubt it would be hard for the government of Egypt to block this single number. Probably they wouldn't even hesitate to block all phone connections to France if they considered it necessary.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    34. Re:What's the Catch? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they have nothing better to do that finding who call a number in France.

      Yeah, because it's so hard to get that list with modern technology. Most probably a single SQL command for each of the few phone switches handling international calls.

      The riots are not more urgent, nor are the medias, the economy, and likely organizing the escape of Mubarack. Nor is more urgent to have a new governement...

      If Mubarak survives the riots, he has then all time of the world to go after them. If there's a successful revolution, it won't matter any more anyway.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    35. Re:What's the Catch? by Aldrikh · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's obviously a temporary workaround, but still better than no workaround at all

    36. Re:What's the Catch? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Defending your obvious ignorance by making an attack on the European people as a whole? Classy.

    37. Re:What's the Catch? by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      But if the NPO sets up a toll free number for their internet freedom internet hotline, then it really is free to call (For the people in Egypt anyway.. SOMEBODY has to pay the bill, but in this case it would be the NPO.)

      It would also make a great angle for getting donations.

      "We at [afore mentioned French ISP] believe strongly in internet freedom, and offer this service free of charge; if however, you like the service, please feel free donate at [micropayment site]."

      Such a move would generate lots of donation revenue from activists that are OUTSIDE Egypt as well, as it would be a simple way to assist the Egyptians without having to be in Egypt.

      I'm not saying that this ISP is doing that mind-- just that if they did, it would boost their prominence as a key figure in this conflict-- thus, highly effective 'brand recognition'-- as well as producing a payment stream to support the venture. I think they would be silly not to do this in fact.

      *NPO==Non Profit Organization

    38. Re:What's the Catch? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      How are you getting ~30 kb/s over a pots line? The highest rating I've seen is 5.6 kb/s in theory and in practice I get 3 kb/s for $29 a month for unlimited.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    39. Re:What's the Catch? by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>>>~30 kbit/s via analog lines
      >>
      >>How are you getting ~30 kb/s over a pots line? The highest rating I've seen is 5.6 kb/s

      You're a little confused. I said kBITS per second whereas you are talking about 5.6 kilobytes per second. Not the same thing. Anyway the breakdown is like so for Dialup modems:

      ~33 kbit/s or 3.3 kbytes/s via analog phones
      ~53 kbit/s or 5.3 kbytes/s via digital phones

      Those are maximums of course. Other common speeds if the lines are noisy include 28kbit/s, 24k, 19k, 14k, and 9600 bits/second.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    40. Re:What's the Catch? by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      Nicolae Ceausescu was shot dead and dead people cannot rule. Nicolae Ceausescu never ruled the Czech Republic so obviously guns saved the Czechs from Nicolae.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    41. Re:What's the Catch? by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      I was not attacking the Euros.
      - I was making the point that it's easy to get confused when dealing with so many tiny states on the other side of the world. So I got confused about which EU member state the dictator ruled 21 years ago. Big deal. Can you tell me who ruled over New York in 1989? Probably not.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    42. Re:What's the Catch? by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      How do you have a 100xxx slashdot ID number and not know the difference between BITS and BYTES? I mean the guy even said "the datarate is only ~30 kbit/s via analog lines"

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    43. Re:What's the Catch? by afxgrin · · Score: 1

      Edward I. Koch , he held that position for 12 years until 1989.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_New_York_City

      Took me less than 10 seconds. =3

    44. Re:What's the Catch? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      My mistake.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    45. Re:What's the Catch? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Ooops. Me not perfekt. ;-) (shrug) I hear the exact same thing from europeans all the time: "New Jersey... Virginia... eh, what's the difference? It's over there somewhere."

      The important difference in this case is that Romania was the only communist country in Europe where the guns were involved in toppling the regime.

    46. Re:What's the Catch? by metaforest · · Score: 1

      Aw come on guys.... thats clever and funny. If only I had mod points.

  4. For how long by cdp0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This way, anyone in Egypt who has access to a analog phone line and can call France is able to connect to the network [...]

    I'm wondering for how long will the international phone lines work. The gvt. is most likely able to cut those too. Remaining options will then be HAM radio, GSM roaming, if you are close enough to a border and you are lucky to be in the range of a GSM base station from across (but I have no idea about the situation in Egypt), and satellite phone.

    1. Re:For how long by Pascal+Sartoretti · · Score: 2

      I'm wondering for how long will the international phone lines work. The gvt. is most likely able to cut those too.

      They can't do it too long : the egyptian economy relies too heavily on tourism (see here).

      The same happened in Tunisia a few weeks ago. Ben Ali (the former dictator) quickly understood that he could not cut his country from the rest of the world, because it was too dependent from outside (tourism & call centers). He then left to Saudi Arabia, which might be a good elderly home for Mubarak too.

    2. Re:For how long by budgenator · · Score: 1

      That's only needed for outside communication, internally things like UUCP, Unix to Unix Copy and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet">FidoNet would work internally for email and good old Usenet would also be handy as hell. As densely populated as Cairo is wireless routers would be capable of being the backbone with the addition of a pringles can or two. It'll be funny when dictatorship start considering OLPC a terrorist enabling NGO.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    3. Re:For how long by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Saudi's next in line. I want to hear the "coalition" defend that dictator..

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    4. Re:For how long by Nick+Ives · · Score: 1

      How exactly is Saudi Arabia in line for a revolution? Also, why would any western power ally themselves with enemies of the House of Saud? We've spent the past 80 years or so arming and training them in exchange for oil, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

      --
      Nick
    5. Re:For how long by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      The House of Saud is that dictator that the west already stands tall defending. And what wells up from the bottom (or is provoked from the outside) might surprise all of of us. However, I highly doubt they have the same issues as the others, at least not in the same proportions. The only thing they have to fear are alternative fuels

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    6. Re:For how long by ocdscouter · · Score: 1

      ...The only thing they have to fear are alternative fuels

      Which is why I'm surprised that they haven't already tried to corner the market, figuratively or otherwise.

    7. Re:For how long by camperdave · · Score: 1

      UUCP and Fidonet would be useful, but do you have the software? UUCP doesn't seem to be installed by default on Ubuntu. I'm not sure about Fedora. As for Fidonet software, I'd be pleasantly surprised if it is installed by default on any of the major distros. Of course, windows users are probably Straight Outta Luck.

      So, can you get the packages without the internet?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    8. Re:For how long by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      As bad as the House of Saud may be (though I'd argue that they have to work within the limits effectively forced on them by a very conservative group of tribal leaders), you wouldn't want what would replace it. Saudi Arabia is not North Africa, and I'd wager the overthrow of the House of Saud would lead to the rise of an extremist Islamist regime that would not in any way deliver liberty to its people, and worse, from our perspective, would directly control some of the largest oil reserves on the planet.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    9. Re:For how long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm wondering for how long will the international phone lines work. The gvt. is most likely able to cut those too.

      Exactly, that's what the Iranian government did about a day or two after the start of unrest.

      Remaining options will then be HAM radio, GSM roaming, if you are close enough to a border and you are lucky to be in the range of a GSM base station from across (but I have no idea about the situation in Egypt), and satellite phone.

      Ham radio is pretty dangerous, after all there are only a few people who know how to do it and they can also be tracked. About GSM roaming, I don't know about the situation in Egypt, but it wasn't feasible in Iran (especially Tehran). Satellite phones are expensive and very few people have access to them. Also, they can be tracked too (I know as a fact that the Iranian government does that actively).
      It is important to find a practical solution which can be used by the mass population. My only hope right now is a decentralized, mesh network of smart phones which run a -store and share- software (like Freenet but obviously more practical!). I believe we have the hardware needed for it but very surprisingly, software is not quite ready.

    10. Re:For how long by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia implies windows doesn't have UUCP without Cigwin installed, but that's all water under the bridge, seems the Egyptian Government is MIA from what I've seen on the news tonight.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  5. Better get started on backup numbers... by Goose+In+Orbit · · Score: 2

    I'll wager the exchanges are being told to block it right about now

  6. What the hell is the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no shortage of international dial up numbers that can be called for the price of the phone call. The latter part is one problem: It's an expensive international call. Also, the phone system is restricted too, isn't it? The other problem is that if you didn't know the number before the network cutoff, there's hardly a way to find it now?

    National communication "outages" are when satphones and radio amateurs come in handy.

    1. Re:What the hell is the point? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      I remember when microsoft built an ISP finder into their OS. Do they still? I wonder if that would work...

    2. Re:What the hell is the point? by h00manist · · Score: 1

      I think the isp finder still exists in XP. If not mistaken as an option in some new connection wizard or something. Havent looked in a long time, but I suppose phone books and companies still offer dialup service, in many places, so you can just call and for the number, sign up, etc. Like back in dialup times.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  7. Toto...?! by Ghoser777 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Would that be a homage to the group Toto, "famous" for the song "Africa"?

    It's gonna take a lot to take me away from you
    There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
    I bless the rains down in Africa
    Gonna take some time to do the things we never have

    --
    James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
    1. Re:Toto...?! by ryzvonusef · · Score: 1

      Actually I don't think so. Running the article through Google Translate[1] seems to translate "toto" into "foo" so I guess it's the french version of the "foo-bar".

      Any french speakers want to pitch in and confirm?

      [1]: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.fdn.fr%2Fpost%2F2011%2F01%2F28%2FCensure-de-l-internet-en-%25C3%2589gypte-%253A-une-humble-action-de-FDN&act=url

      --
      I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
    2. Re:Toto...?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "toto" is the French equivalent to "foo" or "bar" or "foobar" usw.

    3. Re:Toto...?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, it's just the French equivalent of "foo". The sequence "foo bar biz baz" is "toto titi tata tutu".

      If you want to bless the reigns, you should worry more about what's happening in Jordan, rather than Egypt.

    4. Re:Toto...?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes "toto" is common fill-in for passwords and first names. It's more like "joe" than "foobar".

    5. Re:Toto...?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would that be a homage to the group Toto, "famous" for the song "Africa"?

      That's unlikely, in french "toto" is used as "John Doe" in english or as "foobar" in computer programming.

    6. Re:Toto...?! by McTickles · · Score: 2

      toto comes from a lame french kindergarten thing...

      0 + 0
        =

      la tete a toto

      dont ask...

    7. Re:Toto...?! by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 1, Funny

      Indeed, mod parent up. Others give the same explanation of toto=foo, but not the "titi tata tutu" bit.

      Ghoser777's explanation is still deliciously poetic though :)

    8. Re:Toto...?! by hotkey · · Score: 2

      'Toto' in French is the equivalent of 'Foo' or 'Bar' in English - it's often used as a placeholder or temporary variable name.

    9. Re:Toto...?! by the_cosmocat · · Score: 1

      In fact, in france, "toto" means some differents things... - We have "toto" jokes which is quite similar to your Little Johnny jokes http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blague_de_Toto .It's very common jokes we all tell when we're young, very simple, naives,... - in computer science, we use "toto" to name all the things "useless" where a name is required (variables in hello word programs, debug display, sometimes --secured :) -- login and password,...)

    10. Re:Toto...?! by the_cosmocat · · Score: 2

      Yeah! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%AAte_%C3%A0_Toto Because toto in french is a small boys not very intelligent so there is nothing (or 0 ) in his head. That's why 0+0= 0 = "tête à toto" = "head of toto"

    11. Re:Toto...?! by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "as "foobar" in computer programming"

      In computer programming.- FUBAR - "fucked up beyond all repair" or alternatively "fucked up beyond all recognition".

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    12. Re:Toto...?! by niteshifter · · Score: 0

      The sequence "foo bar biz baz" is "toto titi tata tutu".

      Whoa .... you mean if I move to France I can haz titi while coding? Where do I sign up?

    13. Re:Toto...?! by chainLynx · · Score: 1

      I thought it was a wizard of oz reference... "We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto"

    14. Re:Toto...?! by doomsday_device · · Score: 3, Funny

      Where do I sign up?

      Here, I guess.

    15. Re:Toto...?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, i'm french, and "toto" doesn't really mean anything in context, so i'm guessing it's just something that's easy to remember for someone not fluent with our alphabet!

      Zadkiel

    16. Re:Toto...?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I remember from university was foo bar baz. I don't remember a biz part. I even have those variables in an artificial intelligence text book. I remember telling my landlords girlfriend (they were all in university at the time too), that CS used foo and bar as common variables (she initially thought FUBAR), but I said no, look here, and in the middle of depth and bredth first search tree descriptions, right in the mathematical proofs, and in the set theory right beside the existential and universal quantifiers (an upside down A and a backwards capital E), were the variables foo and bar. She just shook her head. Occasionally they would use baz as well, but I don't ever remember a biz. ....back to the topic, I'm waiting anxiously for 802.11s. Solar powered, with a range of between say 2-5 km, with a 54 Mbps data rate, connecting to someone else, who connects to someone else. If you are only connected through an air medium, so long as you can get to a few access points across the border either to Israel, Jordan or Libya, (or Sudan), then you have connections. Add a few store-and-forward sites for huge data loads, and suddenly streaming video isn't such a problem.

    17. Re:Toto...?! by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      Boy, those French, it's like they have a different word for everything!

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    18. Re:Toto...?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      interesting, I've never heard the sequence to be biz or baz, it was always baz bat where i''ve seen it...although now that i think about it bas bat would be more logical...

    19. Re:Toto...?! by honkycat · · Score: 1

      foo bar biz baz my ass, it's foo bar baz quux.

  8. The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MORE by sllim · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yesterday when I read that Egypt had pulled the plug on the internet the first thing that went through my mind was, 'the people will find a way.'. The second thing was, 'I can't wait to see how they do it. This is going to be fascinating.'. Since then I have been contemplating ad-hoc wireless networks and dialing into 56k modems thousands of miles away.
    I have been chewing at the bit (haha! I made a pun!) for any information as to how this little project is proceeding.

    The best Cringley's article can muster is a French company offering 56k access for free and the words, 'Wireless mesh network'. That is all fine and dandy.
    I am happy and impressed that the French company is offering there resources to the Egyptian people. Big round of appluase for those guys. But the geek in me is not impressed. Dialing out of country to a 56k connection is just so bloody obvious. I want to know the bloody details of the wireless mesh. I want to know about the sap that has hacked his satelite dish to give internet access to his town.

    I want more. It has to be out there.

  9. Cairo residents opening home WiFi to protestors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    http://www.nowpublic.com/world/egypt-protests-residents-open-wifi-networks-protestors-2751360.html

    I submitted a seperate story on this - before seeing this story.
    Any ways - I think this gives greater significance to the WiFi p2p protocols - couple of links I can find in a rush:

    http://netsukuku.freaknet.org/
    http://sourceforge.net/p/widi/home/

    1. Re:Cairo residents opening home WiFi to protestors by KhabaLox · · Score: 1

      TFA says, "In removing their WiFi passwords, anyone within range who has a web-enabled mobile device is able to reach the outside world."

      What? If people have Net access at their houses in Cairo then this wouldn't be a story. What am I missing?

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    2. Re:Cairo residents opening home WiFi to protestors by HJED · · Score: 1

      According to bgpmon there appears to be a few ISPs still online.

      --
      null
  10. this is important by phmadore · · Score: 2

    I think it's extremely important that we all take notes here. Dial-up may be getting phased out, but keeping one kicking around might not be the worst idea. Probably learning how to set up an actual dial-in connection with ease would be good. Because it can and will happen here when the shit hits the fan, and, being a veteran of war, I can tell you that the best way to demobilize and weaken your enemy is to fuck his communications as hard as you possibly can. Indymedia, while relegated largely to the role of aging dinosaur, has still been on the cutting edge of this sort of thing for several years now. It wouldn't be hard for someone to set up a Twitter-like service akin to Identi.ca and use it as a way to disseminate information on streets to avoid and where certain types of aide are needed and what not, in the event of a national crisis like we're seeing in Egypt.

    1. Re:this is important by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      Setting up dial-in is pretty straightforward. One technique I like to do is kick off either a slipd or a pppd attached to a serial terminal based on the shell in the password file. This way, I can just dial in to a shell when it's convenient and/or I have a very slow connection.

      The hard part about it is having a POTS phone line. A lot of people forget that you can't run a modem over a VoIP line. This is yet another reason why I refuse to give up my copper pair...

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    2. Re:this is important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of people forget that you can't run a modem over a VoIP line.

      Actually, you can, but you won't be able to achieve much more than 300bps.

    3. Re:this is important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      UID 1391487 - Prob learning to set up a dial up connection would be a good idea
      UID 163409 - Naw, it's easy.
      Ha hahaha!
      and a modem over voip? WTF? *head asplodes*

    4. Re:this is important by TreeInMyCube · · Score: 1

      But doesn't this overlook the actual disconnect mechanism that the Egyptian govt used? They ordered their ISPs to stop advertising routes. The various servers that one would need to conduct communication with others in a situation like this could not find each other. So what if I can dial up (over a copper pair) to a box? That box can't get anywhere. Now, we could go back to BBS-style connections, one server to a bank of modems, and set up the social software on that box. Doesn't scale well to thousands of people who need to get the word out. Would have to set up the social software on multiple boxes, and have them make phone calls to each other, to exchange postings.

    5. Re:this is important by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      First off -- who says that the box is subject to the rules cut-off? It's *possible* that it has connectivity - say, maybe, it's in France and you're dialing long-distance. Or maybe it has a bi-directional satellite link.

      You can also exchange e-mail and usenet in a robust, scalable way, with a UUCP network. You don't actually need to go with a full-on fidonet-style setup. And you only need one entrace/exit point to the in-country network to get your email out. This could potentially be some guy that lives 2 or 3km from a neighbouring country with a pringles cantenna.

      I wonder if I should set up a Waffle system with CNews and UUCP - just in case I need it some day. This is a lot more work than just making sure you can kick of a slip session..

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    6. Re:this is important by phmadore · · Score: 1

      I agree. And also: it's unlikely that the whole world, or, in our case, even the whole country, is going to be shut down at the same time. So we'd want to get word to a safe zone and then they could use that word to broadcast it back to our friends nearby. An encrypted dial-up connection may seem unfeasible or even unreasonable, but I still think it's a good idea that every freedom-loving geek get his chops up on this shit now. I personally just bought some old parts on eBay and am figuring how to actually set this up (it is much easier than I thought). Regardless of how it's done, we will not be able to rely on things like Facebook to communicate our needs when it comes down to it. For a time, Facebook and services like it will find it much more profitable to co-operate with the government's demands. They could just say "shut down all accounts in this region for this length of time." And what's to say that Facebook won't do it?

    7. Re:this is important by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      Heh. I recently decided to pitch a couple modem racks, maybe it's good I kept a couple of the 24-port US Robotic Courier racks I have.

      Spurred by this thread, I have been trying to find a copy of Waffle BBS, which is a straight dial-up into VT100 way to access news and e-mail thats "uucp-native" instead of some kind of gateway.

      It seems that the source code has vanished, however. I sent an e-mail to Tom Jennings, hopefully he can help.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  11. effect of the 'net overstated? by petes_PoV · · Score: 4, Insightful
    People like to think of the internet as the answer to "the man" and that it has a grass-roots connection to people that allows them to multiply their effectiveness at bringing "people power" to bear. Is there really any truth in that? Although it's a popular meme among advocates, it does sound unlikely.

    For a start, the greater the technological advancement, the more dependent it is on a larger number of underlying functions. That makes it vulnerable not only to someone hitting the kill switch, but to government agents (of whom we can safely assume there are many infiltrated amongst any overthrow plot) sending out false information under the guise of "the people" Whether that's reports saying things are different from what they really are, or sabotaging rallies by sending people tot he wrong place - the problem with believing an anonymous source (on twitter, say) is that they're anonymous: you can never be sure they truly represent who they say they do.

    So, while there is/was obviously some use of the internet by some people in Egypt, I would think that its main effect has been to deliver part of the story to outsiders (whether news organisations or just people) rather than to get things going within the country itself. As such, if the only way we have of getting information is through the internet we naturally (and mistakenly) presume that is also how people inside are getting information, too. There appears to already have been quite enough groundswell without the need for smartphones or websites.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by bogjobber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would disagree with you that the main effect of the internet in Egypt has been to deliver news to outsiders. While internet access is blocked now, the use of social media has been instrumental in informing the population and organizing protests for quite a while. See the April 6 Youth Movement. (Sorry, my work blocks most sites so I can't give a more informative reference than that wikipedia article).

      This is a movement that has been years in the making. I imagine a large number of the people involved in the protests (who are largely young, educated people who would have internet access) became interested and involved well before the protests of the last few days.

    2. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by mad+flyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      you are in denial or full of shit...

      Just look at what's happening, how it started and how it's being conducted... The net was not shutdown in egypt without reason... Denying it's usefulness as an insurectional tool or saying it lack reliability is just stupidity or attention whoring "HEY look at me ! i'm going against the flow!!!"

      One thing for a start, multiple report from multiple source have more chance to give a good picture than any official newsgroup. It's chaos, propaganda and truth have the same 'timeslot' on the net... it's usually not difficult in these case to see that something is going on, maybe not precisely, but enough to get some part of the big picture...

      I'm getting really tired of smartasses like you, you have nothing of any value to add, just bucket loads of improbable "what if" that you try to pass as reasonable analysis...

    3. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Informative

      There are 2 reasons Mubarak tried to block Internet access:
      1. It was being used by protesters to coordinate - reporting on where police were concentrated, where people were gathering, etc.
      2. It had this video of a civilian getting shot by police while he was backing away. Mubarak probably thought that by blocking access to the video the Egyptian people wouldn't figure out that the cops had crossed that line.

      It hasn't worked. As a longtime /. sig once put it: The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    4. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the vibe. The Mojo. The net feeds into a mass of thinking. Controlling the TV stations and the newspapers is no longer enough.

      Nope. Obama got 'in' because he was the darling of the moment.
      In Egypt, the groundswell is quickly amplified, over and above Mosque messages.
      Why do you think TV stations and Newspaper are the first to be shot up/ muzzled in tinpot states?
      Thailand and Red Shirts. More successful than Cuba. Africa. More change.

      Egypt is going to be a funny case, because the same could quickly happen in Iraq, unless they do a Saudi or Pinochet (ruthless suppression of splittist voices).

      Now with internet and iPhones, it is bloody difficult for dictators not to get noticed, and even the stupid and ignorant get to join in, and no matter how you cut it, the next election is not a slam dunk.

    5. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>effectiveness at bringing "people power" to bear. Is there really any truth in that?

      Obviously it IS effective otherwise people inside the Obama and Bush administrations wouldn't be looking for ways to "shut down the MSNBC and FOX websites" to use a direct quote. And people like the Egyptian dictator wouldn't have pulled the plug immediately.

      Of course he acted too late.
      The information already got out.
      He's doomed to be dead very shortly.
      The avalanche had already started, and it is too late for the pebbles to vote.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    6. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by RCL · · Score: 3, Funny

      (Sorry, my work blocks most sites so I can't give a more informative reference than that wikipedia article).

      Are calls to France cheap at yours?

    7. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      says the government agent, trying to play down the role of the internet in communication among the revolting masses

    8. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Increased communication vastly increases participation which more than outweighs any possible manipulation by the government. The weakness is how easily electronic communications can be severed for most of the participants.

    9. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by petes_PoV · · Score: 1
      Here's an example of the sort of thing I'm concerned about
      A dissident group starts a forum, or opens up on twitter. They gather followers, including a few government "sympathisers". All the followers duly follow, but the govt. people start to make more vociferous posts/tweets, appear to be in possession of more damning/inflammatory information (as you'd expect, from the source) and, while still towing the dissident line, become key influencers in the group. Come the revolution, these people - whom no-one has ever met in person - use the credibility they have gained either to stage a "coup" within the group, post information that still sounds credible but is misleading, or uses their position to betray other group members to the authorities while still remaining free themselves: "OMG Adbul X has just been arrested. I was just on my way to meet him"

      On top of that, it's trivially easy for an agency to find who's friended/following who and either take them down (as potential leaders, without whom any opposition would be unfocused and therefore less effective) or to hack/subvert their accounts and post counter-information.

      What's worse is the possible retribution after the revolution - either way, depending on who wins. Want your boss's job? Just get his/her work account and posta few inflammatory messages for/against the right people. Come the reckoning, they get the blame. Likewise with all the other followers or forum members, who either expressed an opinion or were guilty by association.

      The problem we have with the internet today is its openness. We already know that any child in their bedroom can build a website that makes them appear to be a multinational, or subject expert (provided they don't give themselves away with "Cooooooool, dude" type content). The same applies to dissidents, honeypots and the lack of verification of message sources. In fact, in future it may be that governments do NOT switch off their country's internet but just go into overdrive, themselves, using their privileged position to subtly alter the message, corrupt the content and make their own propaganda much more widespread.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    10. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That "longtime /. sig" is a quote by John Gilmore, co-founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, creator or the alt.* Usenet hierarchy, major contributor to the GNU project, fifth employee of Sun Microsystems, co-author of the predecessor to DHCP, beard wearer. The correct quote is "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

    11. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Grygus · · Score: 1

      None of that has been created nor changed by the advent of the Internet. Inserting a mole into an organization and framing people to avoid - or mete out - retribution are far older than the transistor.

      Openness is the Internet's primary strength, not a problem.

    12. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by InterGuru · · Score: 1

      In 1789 mobs on the streets of Paris overthrew the monarchy without the Internet, without television, without radio, without telephones and without the telegraph.

      There is no question the Net has played a large role, and perhaps triggered the uprising earlier than would have happened without it, but it is not absolutely needed.

    13. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      It's a reasonable question. Your response "Ooo he's so counter-culture so he thinks he's cool." is misplaced.

      It's like the "Wiki-leaks Revolution" which attempted to assign Wikileaks's leak that Tunisia was "rife with corruption" as the source of a revolution. Which was stupid.

      Techies like to think that they aren't just geeks who like to read slashdot--they like to think they're freedom fighters who are changing the world by setting up IRC channels. Which is mostly ludicrous.

      I don't agree with the OP. The things the internet does very well that are threatening to the regime is the ability to share stories and video with each other and the outside world. Since Egypt has state controlled media (except for Al Jazeera which it can't block) the citizens have to rely on the internet to see the government firing on unarmed civilians

      But we should also remember that the government shut down SMS service which was also being used. We techies love to promote our super high tech mesh networks as the weapons of freedom--but text messages are also perhaps even better systems for spreading information. You can read them 'on the go', they take up almost 0 bandwidth, you can send them to everyone you know in seconds and with MMS you can virally share videos and pictures of government oppression.

      So instead of just saying nothing constructive how about including a *reason* why you think the conventional Nerd Wisdom that the internet is integral to this revolution is true instead of just attacking the person who asks the obvious question "is dial up internet actually useful?"

    14. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by bug1 · · Score: 1

      He wanted people to stay home and not protest so he turns the internet off...

      Egypt has a large young population which i assume is about as dependent on the net as rest of us. What does he think they going to do when the government turns off the communications and entertainment machines, sit around playing monopoly ?

      Turning off the internet to stop people protesting should go down as one the stupidest decisions ever.

    15. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly, u mad flyer.

    16. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If anyone is being the smartass, it's you. Your comment had nothing to add, unlike the GP, whose point is fairly valid. How useful is the Internet in Egypt now, you know, since it has been cut off? There are other tools at the people's disposal.

    17. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally I don't care whether you're right or wrong, or whether the guy you're flaming is right or wrong. Either way, you come off as a mindless, obnoxious jerk.

    18. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm assuming your super insightful post is informed by your participation in the current riots/revoltution/whatever? If not, a lot of what you're saying is fantasy.

    19. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by tabrnaker · · Score: 1

      Back in 1789 people didn't use the internet to communicate with their next door neighbour!

    20. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you think "the man" cuts off the internet, if not exactly because it is the answer to "the man"?

    21. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by GeordieMac · · Score: 1
      Calling it a kill switch is disingenuous, something that is 98% dead isn't really.

      Traditional propaganda doesn't work on the internet. (Thus the attempt to shut it down)

      News organizations rely on the internet to receive images/video's testimonies for first hand witnesses which are still very important to getting the message out. (Thus the silencing of AlJazeera)

      I'd submit that the effect of the 'net cannot be overstated.

    22. Re:effect of the 'net overstated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Sorry, my work blocks most sites so I can't give a more informative reference than that wikipedia article)

      You should find a way around that just like the Egyptians. Good ways include tethering to your phone and setting up your own proxy or vnc client at home.

  12. 56K by sugapablo · · Score: 1

    Luckily, Twitter doesn't take much bandwidth. YouTube won't be a good weapon at that rate, but 56K should be plenty for effective Twitter usage.

    1. Re:56K by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>YouTube won't be a good weapon at that rate

      Disagree. I've uploaded 3GP files to youtube over my dialup line. It only takes 10 minutes for a 5 minute video upload. (And vice-versa: Only requires 5 minutes for viewers to download it & watch it.). Remember it only took a low-quality cellphone camera to capture that poor Iraqi girl getting shot last year, and then suffocating in her own blood, to arouse the world's anger.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    2. Re:56K by sjames · · Score: 1

      That's the great value of actual ascii based communication. 300 baud is good enough to transmit news stories as text or to coordinate protest.

    3. Re:56K by oiron · · Score: 1

      You mean Iranian, I believe...

  13. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by bogjobber · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can't imagine that somebody who set up a wireless mesh network or hacked his satellite TV is going to be very focused on reporting the technical details of what he's doing to the foreign press. There's a revolution happening and the Egyptian government is cracking down hard on protesters.

  14. Wireless peer to peer? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    When is someone going to invent a Wireless peer to peer messaging system? I know it will suck, and there's all kinds of security problems, but in situations like this it would be invaluable.

    1. Re:Wireless peer to peer? by grumling · · Score: 1

      We did. Years ago.

      http://www.aprs.org/

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    2. Re:Wireless peer to peer? by Ozoner · · Score: 1

      A Wireless peer to peer messaging system. What a great idea!

      You have just invented Ham Radio. About a 100 years too late.

    3. Re:Wireless peer to peer? by 32771 · · Score: 1

      Yawn!

      Have a look at this:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_ad_hoc_network

      Or make your android phone MANET aware with the following:

      http://www.olsr.org/?q=olsr_on_android

      It does require cooperation of people though, so get out of your caves and talk to each other ;).

      --
      Je me souviens.
    4. Re:Wireless peer to peer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_mesh_network

      There you go. I just invented that. Now pay up.

    5. Re:Wireless peer to peer? by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      You mean like AX.25?

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    6. Re:Wireless peer to peer? by asvravi · · Score: 1

      TCP over Pigeon Protocol

  15. New song for Mubarak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    With apologies...

    People revoltin' in the hot sun.
    I fought the 'net and the 'net won.
    I fought the 'net and the 'net won.
    I dissolved the cabinet, I have none
    I fought the 'net and the 'net won.
    I fought the 'net and the 'net won.

    I turned off the 'net and I don't feel bad
    Twitter is just no fun
    Well it used to rock, it makes me sad
    I fought the 'net and the 'net won.
    I fought the 'net and the 'net won.

    Killin' people with a six gun
    I fought the mob and the mob won.
    I fought the mob and the mob won.
    I miss my country and the good fun
    I fought the 'net and the 'net won.
    I fought the mob and the mob won.

    I left my country and I feel so bad
    I guess it's time to run
    Cause the nation is so very mad
    I fought the web and the web won.
    I fought the mob and the mob won.

  16. Message from Cairo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    These are exciting times to be living in Egypt. I'm not an Egyptian myself having moved here a few years ago and the locals are usually wary of me but I have past experience of setting up ad-hoc internet connections and that has proven invaluable in the current crisis. I never travel anywhere without my trusty Commodore 64 and, combined with some string and sticky tape, I have set this up as an internet hub giving access to the rest of the world. Like people everywhere, the Egyptians just want to download Hollywood movies and Linux ISOs and to troll foreign journalists. Now I ahve restored that to them it is like a new age of peace and propserity. Best wishes - Junis.

  17. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 1

    Those bastards. They're probably too busy blogging/tweeting etc. about the triviality of their daily lives. Maybe when they can just about be bothered we can get the much needed details of how they're doing it in the form of a wordpress blog or a flickr stream.

  18. Lots of backup numbers by mangu · · Score: 2

    Try googling it

    If Google is too hard, try these

  19. It's all shades of gray by mangu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    doesn't anyone want to talk about about the fact that the good old US of A is supporting a brutal regime that murders and tortures its own people?

    If the USA didn't support any regime that murders and tortures its own people it would have very few relations to other countries. It's all a matter of proportion. Egypt is less brutal than other countries in that region, they have a relatively moderate stance regarding international relations, they try not to let Muslim radicals do too much harm.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Mubarak should step down, but Obama is right in taking a cautious approach to that crisis.

    1. Re:It's all shades of gray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, so what you're saying is that all we have to do is trust your judgment on what is the lesser of two evils? I'm not sure that's good enough.

      Especially not for those people that are tortured and murdered daily by the countless regimes that the U.S. keeps in power.

      You see your argument can justify involvement with any level of evil, and it suggests that your moral compass is not just flexible, but broken.

      And has anyone noticed that the first place that America's "friends" are heading to when they're ejected by their own people; yes its Saudi Arabia - surely the most brutal and unpleasant regime in the middle east. I mean you got public beheadings, execution of women for witchcraft & adultery, routine use of torture, this place has it all!

      And once again, guess who keeps this evil and murderous regime in place? You guessed it - it's the US of A.

      In God we trust - now pass the pliers.

    2. Re:It's all shades of gray by dachshund · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Egypt is less brutal than other countries in that region, they have a relatively moderate stance regarding international relations, they try not to let Muslim radicals do too much harm.

      This is one way of looking at things. The other is that the local population's views aren't (or at one point, weren't) deemed compatible with the U.S.'s strategic and economic interests in the reason. As a result, it became convenient to ally with a totalitarian regime that overrode those interests.

      In this view, which I believe is pretty well supported by history, Muslim extremists are more of a symptom than a cause of U.S. policy (i.e., if a regime crushes all of its non-violent, secular opponents, sooner or later you'll be left with fanatics who are willing to die for their cause). For a great view on this, look up the history of the U.S. in Iran, and in particular how our Operation Ajax eventually replaced a secular prime minister with a radical Islamic government.

      The one thing I'll offer in "our" defense is that these things are highly path dependent. In other words, our mistakes beget a dictator, which leads to radicalism, which leads to our offering more support to the dictator in order to hold down the radicals --- basically the situation you described in your post. It can be very difficult to untangle yourself from bad decisions made by your predecessors.

      Doesn't mean we shouldn't try --- even as a practical matter (rather than a moral one) these dictatorships in the middle east aren't going to last forever, and the longer we support them the worse it'll be for us when the shit hits.

    3. Re:It's all shades of gray by MrL0G1C · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If the USA didn't support any regime that murders and tortures its own people.......

      It doesn't just support them politically it actually trains their police how to do this: Leaked U.S. Military Manual:

      How to Train Death Squads and Quash Revolutions from San Salvador to Iraq.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    4. Re:It's all shades of gray by couchslug · · Score: 2

      Protecting Israel from Egypt takes second place to protecting Egyptians from each other. Do not forget Mubarak, like Hafez Assad in Syria and Saddam Hussein in Iraq, imposed stability on people who would not otherwise have it. It takes a strong, forceful leader to rule primitive societies.

      Mubarak was useful to the US. He fought Al Qaeda, which his successors won't bother to do.

      When there are no "good guys", playing some of the bad guys against each other is necessary. Taking the moral high road never conferred any advantage, which is why the most successful Empires in history did not (as opposed to "pretend to") do that.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    5. Re:It's all shades of gray by MrL0G1C · · Score: 0

      So training police to be death squads is OK you think?

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    6. Re:It's all shades of gray by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      Imposing stability rarely in the long run guarantees it. I'll concede that in certain societies at certain times your argument may in fact hold weight, that not every society is instantly ready for democracy. Hell, even Merrie Olde England went through a considerable number of contortions between the Magna Carta, the Model Parliament, the English Civil War, the Glorious Revolution, and ultimately the great Reform Bills of the 19th century. But even in the case of England, at least there was movement, not always straightforward, but at least movement towards a democratic and liberal society. In Egypt, like a good many of the authoritarian North African and Arab regimes, there was no such liberalization. The Mubarak's and Ben Ali's did indeed keep a cap on the fanatics, but they also squashed the dreams of a few generations of ordinary citizens in the process, with little liberalization or sign that the government was doing anything but watching its own ass and enriching its own leadership. That's not a route to stability, that's a route to revolution. The Shah in Iran almost figured it out, but much too late.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:It's all shades of gray by Nick+Ives · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It takes a strong, forceful leader to rule primitive societies.

      With this, you clearly show your prejudice.

      --
      Nick
    8. Re:It's all shades of gray by rainmouse · · Score: 2

      Egypt is less brutal than other countries in that region

      Though Egypt without the internet should perhaps be renamed Gypt?

    9. Re:It's all shades of gray by SETIGuy · · Score: 1

      With any government, in the end the people will decide. They may make a decision we agree with. They may make a decision we disagree with. Whether we get in the way or stand aside may affect the decision, and it may postpone the inevitable. Democracy, theocracy, or another dictatorship? Mubarak in exile, in prison, or dead? We'll find out soon enough.

    10. Re:It's all shades of gray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are primitive. You cannot honestly say that a culture that stones people to death is an equal to those that don't, can you?

    11. Re:It's all shades of gray by Nick+Ives · · Score: 2

      But the law regarding stoning was put in place in '77 and Sharia was put in place via a referendum in '80. You could say the people voted for it, but the idea of a free vote in a dictatorship is kind of ridiculous.

      Now there is a revolutionary situation in Egypt. There are both secular and Islamic forces at work and, at this stage, it's impossible to say who will be successful. It's incorrect to say that Egypt is a primitive society though, they have an industrial base, a developing economy and control of one of the major world shipping routes.

      Hunter-gatherer tribes living in rainforests are primitive; Egypt is a brutal, repressive regime that the people are rising up against.

      --
      Nick
    12. Re:It's all shades of gray by h00manist · · Score: 0

      If the USA didn't support any regime that murders and tortures its own people it would have very few relations to other countries. It's all a matter of proportion. Egypt is less brutal than other countries in that region, they have a relatively moderate stance regarding international relations, they try not to let Muslim radicals do too much harm.

      Don't get me wrong, I think Mubarak should step down, but Obama is right in taking a cautious approach to that crisis.

      So, you support democracy, so long as the results of the elections don't displease you, right? Is that exactly what you're saying?

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    13. Re:It's all shades of gray by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      I think he's trying to say that democracy was not an option. The options were a dictator who would maintain order while keeping Muslim extremists at bay, or letting the country be taken over by Muslim extremists.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    14. Re:It's all shades of gray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cannot honestly say that a culture that stones people to death is an equal to those that don't, can you?

      Any culture that kills its own people, regardless of method (stoning, injection, hanging, etc.) is inhumane.

      The US is inhumane. My country is not.

    15. Re:It's all shades of gray by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      Liquidation can be applied for good or ill. No rule should be a suicide pact, and when one has enemies who are self-liberated by ignoring your (not their) rules, one may choose similar freedom of action.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    16. Re:It's all shades of gray by Just+Another+Poster · · Score: 1

      So what country do you live in?

      In the US, there's a chance, depending on the state you're in, that you'll be put to death for capital murder, not adultery.

    17. Re:It's all shades of gray by Just+Another+Poster · · Score: 1

      In this view, which I believe is pretty well supported by history, Muslim extremists are more of a symptom than a cause of U.S. policy

      Muslim "extremists" have been on the war path ever since the time of Muhammad.

    18. Re:It's all shades of gray by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "With this, you clearly show your prejudice."

      With that, you dodge the content of my statement because you find its observations offensive. You have said nothing, at all, to invalidate it. Political Correctness at its finest. Nice Job.

      Strong men who take and hold power by force over simple peoples are the standard for "effective" (not "nice", one thing is not like the other!) leadership throughout history. Simple peoples demand such leaders and the other sort are mere speedbumps.

      Saddam, Assad, Sadat, Mubarak, and the visionary Kemal Ataturk were all products of their societies. _I_ didn't choose them. I merely observe how they got there.

      Such leaders elsewhere have accomplished tremendous things.
      Mao unified China and pushed it by force into the modern age. He was perfect to lead simple people in a powerful revolt against "sophisticated" opposition. What Mao accomplished was clearly worth the bloodshed. It's not prejudice to note that, either.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    19. Re:It's all shades of gray by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Sharia was put in place via a referendum in '80.

      Doesn't that somewhat confirm the GP's point?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  20. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by commodore6502 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Maybe we should start copying the Egyptians here in the U.S. I'm tired of being tied to the Comcast monopoly or Verizon monopoly, and would like alternatives.

    What is this "mesh" network I keep hearing about?
    What is WiFi p2p?
    What is Netsukuku?

    --
    Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
  21. Re:GSM Roaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not much likelihood of GSM roaming. Take a look at a photo of Egypt at night from space.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/5146231463/

    Egypt *is* the Nile. And not much near the borders...

  22. Alternative media sources: e.g. AlJazeera by fantomas · · Score: 1

    There are other media sources to check: good coverage at the moment by AlJazeera.

    Some more Reuters quality photos here (warning: some show injuries, not nice). Barak Obama should probably not view photo 80, the protestor doesn't look too happy with the 'made in USA' tear gas canister....

    1. Re:Alternative media sources: e.g. AlJazeera by Grygus · · Score: 1

      I don't understand the angst over the tear gas canister; it's a non-lethal police weapon. Surely that's exactly the sort of weaponry you WANT your police to have? I bet the kids at Kent State or Tienanmen Square wish they had only been tear-gassed. The U.S.-made canister provided its owners with a non-lethal option; that the option existed may have saved lives.

      I do understand that there is an underlying context (U.S. aid that contributed to the military/police) but this seems to me like a really poor example for that argument.

  23. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    follow @telecomix on twitter for up to date news on the censorship and how it is being fought against. we have proxies, we share dial up, we have achieved ham radio comms with egypt.

  24. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

    > Dialing out of country to a 56k connection is just so bloody obvious.

    Dialing out of country to a 56k connection is damn near impossible.

    28.8? If the phone lines are good.

    I wonder if there are any Egyptians left with USR HST modems, and if the dial-up concentrators even speak that any more..

    --

    Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  25. Does this mean... by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does this mean we can get their IPV4 addresses back?

    Just 'sayin

    1. Re:Does this mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could make a bundle selling their IPV4 and switching to IPV6 only once they comeback online.

      The dropping of IPV4 will effectiely censor the internet anyway

  26. Phy disconnect or DNS? by grumling · · Score: 1

    I wonder if they've physically shut down the networks (down, down) or if they just did something like kill the DNS servers? Even in a small network like what Egypt has it would still take a while to get all the network links, towers and DSLAMS, etc. completely off. Even if it would be a little more difficult there are plenty of resourceful people who could get IRC servers and other services up even without the links to the outside world. Most people would consider a DNS failure an outage and it's relatively quick and easy (and just the thing to be sneaky if you have a revolutionary mind).

    --
    "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    1. Re:Phy disconnect or DNS? by lfp98 · · Score: 1

      The article hardly says anything about how it was done. This morning on France 24 news they claimed it was a DNS shutdown by all the major ISPs in the country by order of the government. Does that mean you could get access to all the major sites like Twitter if you just knew their numerical IP address?

    2. Re:Phy disconnect or DNS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's easier to shut down the authentication servers I believe.

    3. Re:Phy disconnect or DNS? by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      I wonder if they've physically shut down the networks (down, down) or if they just did something like kill the DNS servers? Even in a small network like what Egypt has it would still take a while to get all the network links, towers and DSLAMS, etc. completely off. Even if it would be a little more difficult there are plenty of resourceful people who could get IRC servers and other services up even without the links to the outside world. Most people would consider a DNS failure an outage and it's relatively quick and easy (and just the thing to be sneaky if you have a revolutionary mind).

      I doubt they's go to the effort to shut it down at teh customer edge. Moch more effifient to do it at the CO/ISP office.
      Could use several methods to actually accomplish this. Perhaps disable DHCP or DNS or authentication, or route all traffic to a static "out of order" page, or shut down the ports to upstream providers, or to international gateways.
      Or probably a blend of the above.

      And, I have also been wondering, how hard is it to set up wireless mesh nodes using off the shelf consumer hardware?
      I'm wondering is I have enough stuff in my basement to throw one together in a hurry? Might be an interesting exercise to have the information and software easily available...
      That would probably be the most resilient way to get around this type of government interference.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    4. Re:Phy disconnect or DNS? by jimicus · · Score: 2

      IIRC it's already been figured out - their top-tier ISPs (presumably under orders from the government) have stopped advertising the addresses they provide routes to at the border routers.

    5. Re:Phy disconnect or DNS? by nathan.fulton · · Score: 1

      Word on the street is that they've blocked outgoing BGP advertisements

    6. Re:Phy disconnect or DNS? by green1 · · Score: 1

      better yet, if all the major ISPs shut off their DNS servers, you could simply use OpenDNS or Google DNS (or any other DNS server that is outside of the country)

  27. the angle is by unity100 · · Score: 1

    you have been conditioned/used to/with capitalist brutalism SO much that, anything that i s not similarly capitalist or self centered is too hard to believe.

  28. How would you do it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if suddenly the all of the internet connections in your country are shutdown by government order? The inception of the internet was to be able to resist such problems. But if all land lines with the corresponding DSL lines are unavailable? With the proliferation of Wifi enable DSL routers the answer could be that simple: let's go radio!! With no amazement I recently found that it's not easy to find tools to construct this idea. Freenet is great but it depends highly on the physical layer. Maybe the Egypt lesson will encourage someone to design some user friendly solution to this problem. Probably petes_PoV is right and in the case of Egypt there is no need for inside communication but it get's you thinking... what if it dit.

    Is it so absurd to create a Wifi mesh network that would grow with the help of all the "not so savvy" internauts . The main obstacle would be precisely that: the generation of browser oriented internet users. How can you organize a city wide Wifi mesh network if the majority of users are only familiar with the wireless connection wizard and the web browser. The answer: a all-in-one ospf+dns+http server. Yes the fundamental protocols that sustain the internet installed with a few clicks.

    We already have Freenet that gives us the communication layer for a private and DNS independent network. The goal would be to create the physical network. The idea would start withe a single open wireless network and some publicity (via graffiti/leaflets) in the surrounding geographical area. Spreading the words "Connect to the wifi network named FREENET" would suffice. The connecting client's http requests would be all redirected to a page with details on how to connect to the Freenet available in that subnet. The users would also be encouraged to expand the network by transforming their Wifi router to another cell/subnet by downloading and installing a single program (let's call it mesher). Since the majority of ISP stick to a hand full of router models and the same login and password for all installations it would be easy to design a script to change the routers configuration to create a new network cell. The user would be instructed to connect his computer to the Wifi router via ethernet and run the mesher program. This program would do the following tasks:

    * Ask the Freenet for a free subnet
    * Save the current router/AP configuration
    * Disable the wireless security and DHCP server
    * Change the SID to something like FREENET+random
    * Enable OS routing, from and to the new subnet
    * Pass the subnet to the the "uplink" to enable routing to and from all the other subnets

    The program would then be running a DHCP directing DNS requests to him. All DNS requests would be directed to his IP address. A new cell/subnet, equal to the main one would have spawned. Iterate that and you get a nice star shaped network.

    Besides political propaganda most of the contents of this independent Freenet would be how to create your home made radio antenna to boost your AP transmitting power. With a bit of luck, the network would grow enough to attract some savvy users before the main node was captured. This small group would use extra Wifi devices to connect 2 or more branches of the tree. That would "mesh" up the topology and make it resistant to the knockdown of the main node.

    By now we have chat rooms bursting with people organizing raving demonstrations on free speech. Some geeks would also concentrate on the exponential growth of the network. If we still can depend on the land lines to make national calls, the network could become meshier and other cities could join the party. Any uplinks available to the "outside world" could be advertised via the dynamic routing protocol.

    If we have that few router models to enables the mesher to configure them automatically and the main node doesn't go down before

    1. Re:How would you do it? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "In a hypothetical scenario in some Axis of Evil nation of course."

      Put functional "bait" hotspots in plastic containers that contain a tamper switch discreetly connected to any number of interesting "prizes" made from uncontrollable common non-firearm components anyone with a bit of ingenuity can assemble. A fat UPS case has LOTS of room if you ditch the large batteries. Take out enemy techs and weaken their response.

      Peaceful baiting could include sacrificial easily found hotspots adjacent to concealed hotspots. When baitspot is disconnected, timer allows removal and a few hours later the backup hotspot powers up.

      Baitspots could be used as ambush bait. Monitor on cam, target arrives, Claymore time. Secondary IEDs are old news but work. Tertiary and clustered command-detonated units would be practical. Cellphones are routinely used in urban warfare and the internet could be integrated into it as well. Cams could monitor targets ("drones" need not fly!), facilitating placement of ordnance in the monitored zone as well as the attack.

      Write this scenario into literature. The Turner Diaries are fiction, and there is no reason other fiction can't cover controversial subjects in detail.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  29. Keep those dialup modems? by depeche · · Score: 1

    Perhaps this suggests that some of that 'old tech' should be kept working and around just in case... I probably have a modem in a basement somewhere and I'm equally sure I've thrown a bunch out thinking that they'd never be need again

  30. Crazy to use the dialup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we know about it, then the Egyptian government does too and is probably capturing all the packets AND the source phone number.

    That source telephone number will make rounding up those who disagree easy. Eygpt is known to have nasty jails for people who disagree with others on all sorts of things.

    Rather, people should take lots of photos, lots of video and communicate with each other using old fashioned methods until the internet is back up. Then they can post (over VPNs) all this data so the actions of the current government are known not just inside Eygpt, but around the world.

    1. Re:Crazy to use the dialup by leromarinvit · · Score: 1

      Eygpt is known to have nasty jails for people who disagree with others on all sorts of things.

      What is happening seems to be a revolution in the making. Either you win or you die, and the people (at least those involved enough to be specifically targeted by the government) probably know it.

      --
      Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
  31. Egyptians, find the CNN crew by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    The will be happy to broadcast any videos, pictures and comments, and put them up on the internet as well. If you are familiar with Cairo, just look at the live coverage that they are broadcasting, and figure out where they are. If they have satellite video access, they certainly have satellite internet access as well. And they love to put up stuff where they can say, "CNN exclusive!"

    Now, if the Egyptian starts blocking CNN . . . oh, well. Try Al Jazeera.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Egyptians, find the CNN crew by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Nah apparently the protesters have been beating reporters. Including CNN, BBC, etc. Something to do about the reporters filming the MAS(aka Muslim Brotherhood) inciting people, and them not wanting it to get out.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  32. What if it were to happen here? by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Yesterday when I read that Egypt had pulled the plug on the internet the first thing that went through my mind was, 'the people will find a way.'. The second thing was, 'I can't wait to see how they do it. This is going to be fascinating.'. Since then I have been contemplating ad-hoc wireless networks and dialing into 56k modems thousands of miles away.

    Just as a hypothetical, perhaps not as a government action, but an act of sabotage, but what if it were to happen here? Suppose your internet went dark. What would you do? Do you have out-of-country dialup numbers handy? Do you even have a working modem? Do you even have a POTS phone line? Do you even have a terminal emulation program installed? In the before time we used to use bbs systems like fidonet; a series of nodes that connected via modem and swapped info periodically. Who's ready to deploy such a thing? uucp? Is it installed?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:What if it were to happen here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for the government: taking down the Internet in America would be useless at best. If it was done because there was a revolution under way, Americans are by and large too insular to even care whether the rest of the world knows until it's over, and if it was done before a revolution started then it might well ignite one.

      Sabotage is even less credible; it would take a massive coordinated effort to take out all the trunk lines and all the satellites at once; anyone able to make our Internet access completely dark is also capable of simply destroying us with only a little more work.

  33. 011-610-867-5309 by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

    I heard Jennie runs her own ISP now too....

    1. Re:011-610-867-5309 by lazybeam · · Score: 1

      That should be 00 1 610 867 5309 - 00 for international (in Egypt and most countries), 1 for NANP, 610 area code, etc. If you dialled 011 610 867 5309 from Egypt you might get a Etisalat mobile number (according to WTNG) or if you dialled it from the USA then you'd get a disconnected freecall number in Australia: 011 international, 61 for Australia (the 008 numbers were moved to 1800 in the late 1990s and there are no longer any +61 0x numbers).

      --
      --
      no sig for you. come back one year.
  34. All lines down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is not only the Internet. The Mubarak dictatorship regime also halted mobile phone networks land lines (switchboard networks) and international phone lines to almost all Egypt except few, so those who are calling and speaking to TV and Sat networks are part of the Mubarak dictatorship regime. Opposition currently have only the Sat TV networks on the ground to talk to directly that if if the reporters have not been beaten up by security forces like what happened to many.

  35. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at a map of Egypt. Most of the population lives along the Nile river. To the west: the Sahara and then internet friendly Libya. To the east, the Red Sea, to the north the Mediterranean Sea, and to the south Sudan, another internet friendly country. Wireless meshes are not going to help much to cross hundred of kilometres of sand or sea

  36. Egypt Cuts the Net, Net Fights Back 103 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could it happen here? I'm sure it could but if it did then i'd even get offa my ass and protest, because if my porn disappeared for a nano second i'd be out the door with my pitchfork looking to stick somebody.....................dammit!

  37. Re:GSM Roaming by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

    Not much likelihood of GSM roaming. Take a look at a photo of Egypt at night from space.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/5146231463/

    Egypt *is* the Nile. And not much near the borders...

    Yeah, and then it it's most populated neighbouring areas are the Gaza strip and Libia. Not exactly places that have a lot of potential to get a signal out.

    --
    RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
  38. Re:GSM Roaming by GCsoftware · · Score: 1

    Well there's always Taba, where you can pick up an Israeli network or possibly even a Jordanian one.

  39. Cleaner unplugs the Internet in Egypt by Jodka · · Score: 1

    According to an article appearing in the online technology journal MicroScope.co.uk, here:

    "...we rang the Egyptian Embassy for an explanation. We're not sure who we talked to, but they said that possibly a cleaner might have unplugged the Internet by mistake."

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
  40. Free internet addresses by Ryunosuke · · Score: 1

    Since they're offline, can you use/steal their v4 Ip addresses?

  41. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by Xyrus · · Score: 5, Funny

    I propose a new protocol: Internet Delivers Information Over Twitter, or I.D.I.O.T for short.

    --
    ~X~
  42. Detailed information for Egyptians seeking free di by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Detailed information for Egyptians seeking free dial-up: http://pastehtml.com/view/1czvwm2.html
    Please Share!

  43. FDN should get some support by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

    That's at least one thing the French do right at the moment.

  44. Not the "real" Robert X. Cringely by Simon80 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mark Stephens and InfoWorld parted ways acrimoniously, and one of the results of that is that they both still use the Robert X. Cringely name. The InfoWorld Cringely is NOT the same author as this one.

  45. Killing DNS by amplusquem · · Score: 2

    Egypt turned off the internet by shutting down the DNS servers. It is extremely useful to have public DNS servers memorized. Google: 8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4

    1. Re:Killing DNS by hajus · · Score: 1

      It may be one of the ways. The majority of their outage is via modified bgp entries (border gateway protocol) so that the routes themselves are gone.

      http://bgpmon.net/blog/?p=450
      http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/telecommunications/how-egypt-pulled-its-internet-plug
      http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/01/28/how-egypt-cut-itself-off-from-the-net/

      DNS alternative would be easier to fix (alternative dns server, distributed hosts files, whatever)

  46. Kill Switch by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2

    You have now seen an Internet Kill Switch in action. Anyone at all still think that it's a good idea to give this president one too?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Kill Switch by guruevi · · Score: 1

      You really think if they really wanted, they couldn't do this as well? Our Internet is going out to other countries only through very few (in comparison) uplinks held by a select group (roughly a dozen) of companies, some of whom already proved to be in the pocket of our DHS (AT&T, Level 3, Verizon). DNS is also in the pocket of our US Government (See the Green Paper).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  47. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by pongo000 · · Score: 1

    I want to know the bloody details of the wireless mesh.

    Here's a place to start: HSMM-MESH

  48. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    When the Shah shut down the phones and radio at the start of the Revolution, and placed a curfew on the populace of Tehran and other major cities and towns in Iran, people started shouting from rooftops at each other encouraging the revolution.

    There's a point when an uprising becomes a revolution, and a revolution is a helluva lot harder to stop. At that point the rulers begin to worry about the loyalty of the army, because if the army, either in total, or even sufficient units, refuse orders to reign in the uprising, it's all over. That's what happened in Tunisia. Ben Ali was no dummy, and as soon as the Army's reliability was called into question, he knew he had very little time to get the hell out.

    While the police in Egypt seem to be wavering, and there has been some reports of individual army units refusing orders, thus far the army seems loyal to the regime. How long this will last is hard to say, but too many more days like this and I can't see how Mubarak will be able to count on the Army, and then he to will flee, leaving behind some poor lieutenant to try to maintain order.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  49. Dictators are losing control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You cannot stop Free Speech. After all, censorship is everywhere. The gov’t (and their big business cronies) censor free speech, shut down dissent and ban the book “America Deceived II”. Free speech for all.
    Last link (before Google Books bans it also]:
    http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000190526

  50. Free Dialup by rhook · · Score: 1

    "In reaction to the Egyptian government crackdown on the Internet, the French non-profit ISP French Data Network set up a dial-up Internet access. This way, anyone in Egypt who has access to a analog phone line and can call France is able to connect to the network using the following number: +33 1 72 89 01 50 (login: toto, password: toto)."

    I suppose that could work if they had anyway to get online and get that information. Although the Egyptian government can easily block access to that number.

  51. Free speech for Muslims? by gregraven · · Score: 1

    I don't understand why "netizens" are so concerned about making certain that a bunch of Muslims in Egypt have access to the Internet. Granted, the regime in Egypt has its flaws, but considering the country is 90 percent Muslim, it's actions have been pretty benign. What happens if the moderates currently in power in Egypt are replaced by radical Islamics? Are we to fight reflexively for freedom of speech for those who hate freedom of speech? It seems a much better use of our energies would be to fight the Obama administration's current attempts to implement an "Internet kill switch" here in the United States.

    --
    Greg Raven
    As long as there's any left, I'll take mine first.
    1. Re:Free speech for Muslims? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I have a newsflash for you: having 90 percent of country being Muslim doesn't mean that they're all "radical Islamists" or that they "hate freedom of speech". Yes, they do have the Muslim Brotherhood - but it does not enjoy particularly broad support.

    2. Re:Free speech for Muslims? by h00manist · · Score: 1

      The day 90 percent of the one billion muslims become radicalized, the rest of the world better just convert and shut up, no way to control 900 million people who are completely dedicated to a cause and have no fear. The truth is that there are about as many radicals in any religion I think, which is generally quite few. The rest is western oil interests, military interest fearmonging, basically political propaganda. Worked well to get guaranteed cheap oil for quite a while.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  52. Liberation incoming? by julioody · · Score: 1

    So when is the US/EU/etc going to step in and liberate Egypt?

    1. Re:Liberation incoming? by EuclideanSilence · · Score: 1

      So when is the US/EU/etc going to step in and liberate Egypt?

      Hopefully never.

    2. Re:Liberation incoming? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      They seem to be doing fine on their own, and I'd expect that locals would very much rather have the country to themselves once it's over, without some foreign folk bossing them around.

  53. ham d-star sstv by luther349 · · Score: 1

    ham radios are the best rely the case with d-star models. they have full net ability via radiowave have a 150 mile range and unlimited range with a tower and are abought idsn speed. got a older ham your still not out of the loop being you can use sstv or slow scan tv to send pics and data over the radiowaves its even possible with some mods to a cb radio. example hear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2fa1WvjIvs but as i said d-star has full web.

    1. Re:ham d-star sstv by luther349 · · Score: 1

      oh and you can even do chat and ims using rtty for hams.

  54. Will it happen "at home"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By "at home" US is meant, I suppose, I expand to "Western world".

    Anyhow - not just can it happen, it will. EOD.

  55. Egypt, national interests, oil, money, military by h00manist · · Score: 0

    As far as the prevailing US political-corporation merged monsters in power since forever, the prevailing policy is money. Money in the middle east means oil, means lining up cooperating governments to sell it cheap and consistently, means dominating or buying out the main military powers, egypt and israel. None of that is not what any democracy protecting their own country, resources and interests would want. They would sell it for the highest possible price, try to get military friends to defent them and their interessts, and would be playing the game in such a way as to drive prices up. For the US "national interests" that means supporting dictators that never leave, consistently cooperate, and sell the oil, cheap, in exchange for getting a fat illegal profit for themselves, personally, and little or almost nothing for the country. And as all international oil business is in dollars, it helps establish the dollar as a international currency, allowing the US to basically print as many dollars as it wants and export them, and some other stuff I dont quite understand.

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  56. The truth is, we all got accustomed to censorship. by h00manist · · Score: 1

    The RIAA and MPAA are basically censorship organizations. Copyright law is basically a form of censorship. Any restriction on copying and distribution of information basically is a form of censoring, with a legal support. The "uncensorable" internet, that we thought routed around all censorship, doesn't. It's immensely censorable. Any company with any copyright, plus any of the terrible and violent things that happen all over society, become reason for internet censorship. Plus, states that just outright censor, can do it easily. I remember discussing this back in the early 90's, that the internet, for all its potential, could in practice be censored, controlled, and inspected, as all the connections are centralized. What we need are p2p web servers, that are hosted off everyone's machines, serverless. Routing built into our connectivity solution. Wiring and wireless from neighbor to neighbor. An entirely different connectivity infrastructure. Hell, we're going back to the days of AOL with facebook and the like, where censorship becomes just corporate policies, with complete impunity. If you want to take freedom to the ultimate consequence, people have the right to sit at a bar or cafe or street corner, and talk about whatever they want. If they talk about illegal things, they can still talk about it. On the Internet however, conversation of illegal activity is grounds for censorship. And that opens the door wide open to all kinds of censorship. There are dozens of things you may not say on the net, because it's censored in this, that or the other way - it's all controlled. I have a lawsuit for thousands, for defamation, because someone used my connection to curse out their boss. Defamation, yet another law for censoring. There are dozens of reason to censor, and we just don't do anything about it, keep repeating the mantra "the internet routes around censorship". Well, maybe it can, but it's not doing it very well.

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  57. Betting on red by alvinrod · · Score: 1

    Have you considered that perhaps they know this, but are hoping that the current regime won't be in existence much longer. At that point it really doesn't matter what the powers that be would do as they will cease being the powers that, well, be. Regardless, it's their own call to provide the service and anyone else's call to take them up on the offer.

    From a purely self-interested point of view, the company may believe they have more to benefit than to lose. From other views, they may believe that this is the right thing to do, even if it does cost a few extra bucks. Either way, motivations are complex.

    1. Re:Betting on red by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      it's their own call to provide the service and anyone else's call to take them up on the offer.

      I do believe in self responsibility. Most of the time, the people just have to take responsibility for their own ignorance. However, it's quite likely that the technical people on the side providing the communications service know more and should know better. If they knowingly fail to warn people that they know are being put into danger then that is negligent and they are responsible. That they do this in their own self interest is even worse.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  58. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm just starting to learn about this matter, I'll offer what I have. Anyone with better knowledge on the topic please don't spare your comments.

    The basic idea is to have a network where there is no centralized or designated routing or name resolution nodes. Each node can act as a router and forward traffic along to other nodes.

    The nodes can be fixed, or can be mobile, changing connectivity depending on mobility and proximity. There are different protocols/algorithms that focus on each case.

    This is what Wikipedia says about Mobile Ad Hoc Networks:

    “A mobile ad hoc network (MANET), sometimes called a mobile mesh network, is a self-configuring network of mobile devices connected by wireless links.[1]

    Each device in a MANET is free to move independently in any direction, and will therefore change its links to other devices frequently. Each must forward traffic unrelated to its own use, and therefore be a router. The primary challenge in building a MANET is equipping each device to continuously maintain the information required to properly route traffic. Such networks may operate by themselves or may be connected to the larger Internet.”

    There are lots of research projects going on evaluating performance of various algorithms. There are also few open source implementations.

    Here are some starting pointers:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_mesh_networks
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_ad_hoc_networks
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_ad_hoc_network
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ad_hoc_routing_protocols
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct
    http://tuxmobil.org/manet_linux.html
    http://p2pfoundation.net/Netsukuku

    My own thoughts:

    Many of the algorithms consider the generic case and naturally focus on performance issues such as latency, throughput and computing load at each node. However, the Egyptian case shows that there is a need for an extremely light weight protocol where many of these performance constraints can be eased – yet the network is still considered functional and usable.

    * Some latency in new nodes joining the network is acceptable.

    * Latency and low throughput in passing information between nodes is acceptable. High capacity is not required, what is required is the ability to pass short messages or tweets around.

    * The protocol has to be light weight so it can be run on any basic device.

    * However, resilience to sabotage should be built into the protocol. For example, one concern is having a large number of malicious nodes joining the network and attempting to disrupt the network. Is such a scenario considered when designing p2p routing protocols?!

    Regards.

  59. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by h00manist · · Score: 1

    I too have been waiting to see what will come up, ever since they cut it off. But honestly I nowadays feel very consored in the regular Net already. There's a huge battle going on internationally to control and censor the net using all sorts of ways. Defamation, copyright, lawsuits, police needs, and regular commercial interests are slowly steadily increasing the vigilance and liable actions and content. IP number logging has become the universal ID that is recorded at every doorway automatically. And a totally decentralized network, with no servers or cables run be corporations, is the only way I see out.

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  60. Best solution I found so far by h00manist · · Score: 1
    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  61. Re:3.2.1. "USA supporting a brutal regime ..." by quarkscat · · Score: 1

    "USA supporting a brutal regime ..." is far more the norm rather than the exception. In fact, I would go a step further and state that the USA supporting a brutal regime is SOP, and has been so almost since we began our American Exceptionalism "Age of Empire" that started with the Spanish-American War. The USA engaged in the brutal suppression of entire villages in the Philippines to capture|kill a few freedom fighters -- a tactic we learned from the British Empire. A brutal dictator is easier to control than a democracy, right up to the point that that we lose control of the dictator (i.e. Saddam Hussein) or that dictator loses control of the country (i.e. General Pinochet, or the Shah of Iran). Since the USA fought the fascists in WW2, we have become that enemy of democracy ourselves -- Operations Paperclip, Gladio, Ajax, MK-Ultra, Condor, Northwoods, Mockingbird, COINTELPRO, and more. Between the intelligence agencies formed after WW2 (CIA & NSA) and military programs like School of the Americas, the USA has been the world's premier promulgator of brutal secret police, death squads, and torture the world has ever seen. All this in the name of Empire, also known as colonial mercantilism. Post 9/11/2001, the USA has directed the 2nd unending war, the War on|of Terror -- the 1st being the War on|of Drugs. Today, those two wars are directed against countries abroad (especially those with oil) as well as against the American people themselves. The chickens (fascism) has come home to roost, in the form of the Orwellian named USA Patriot Act(s), the Help America Vote (Our Way) Act, the FISA|Telecom (Immunity) act, the Military Commissions Act, and a smorgasbord of POTUS Executive Orders, including the power of extrajudicial assassination of USA citizens, extrajudicial stripping of USA citizenship, detention of citizens for indeterminate length without habeous corpus or due process. And now there is legislation pending to cut off the internet here in the USA by the Unitary Executive, just like what was done in Egypt, all in the name of fighting terrorism. "War is to neither be won nor lost, but to be continuous." George Orwell, from "Nineteen Eighty Four" Sic semper tyrannis.

  62. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Me too. I've been thinking about ad-hoc for a couple of years. Perhaps it's time to establish an ad-hoc protocol that can work over any means. This will only get worse until government gets out of the way instead of trying to fix everything.

  63. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are satellite not used for Internet access. Send a satellite up over Egypt, or use some other satellite over Europe to give the people access to Internet

  64. Dial-up to bypass by The+Conductor · · Score: 1

    That concurs with my experience when I have to dial-up around the Great Firewall (which is blocking news from Egypt these days...don't want to give the natives any restless ideas...). I typically have to fall back to 9600 or 2400 bps, which is good enough to make an independent check on SSH key MD5 sums, at least. Modems signals are pretty standard down to 2400 bps, but the slower 1200 and 300bps standards are different between Europe and North America. Russia used North American standards, because the Soviets of the 80's were more accustomed to stealing American technology.

    And I wish dial-up were more obvious to the Ubuntu packagers. Recent versions of Network Manager won't recognize Gnome PPP as a network connection and Evolution refuses to fetch mail, thinking it is offline. Arrrgh!

    1. Re:Dial-up to bypass by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      > Modems signals are pretty standard down to 2400 bps, but the slower
      > 1200 and 300bps standards are different between Europe and North America.

      This hasn't really been an issue since the early 90s, IME. All the decent vendors pretty much support both the Bell and CCITT standards. IIRC the relevant standards are Bell 212A and V.21 for 1200 bps, look in your modem manual.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  65. Good community spirit.. by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    I have to say, for the first time, I am impressed with the french, extending their services to allow egyptians to use the internet even if their own government does not want them to. I would want to know why a government would completely block the internet off from people, what is the reasoning, but I guess when you see something that just ain't right, it is nice to see another country doing what they can to help out.

  66. Re:The Cringley article is crap. I want to know MO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Note: It's not a French company, It's a French non-profit organization.
    FDN is the oldest French ISP (since 1992, few are older but closed since). And probably the smallest national wide french ISP (a bit less than 200 ADSL line in activity).

  67. Avian IP, your hour has come! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where there's a wing, there's a way. :-)