Verizon iPhone Also Haunted By the Death Grip

This is certainly not news by AndyAndyAndyAndy · 2011-02-09 09:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

"This isn't completely surprising since Apple has made no significant changes in the antenna design to warrant a permanent fix."
You know, there's a saying about doing the same thing over and expecting a different result...

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Re:This is certainly not news by peragrin · 2011-02-09 09:57 · Score: 2

The only ones who were expecting different results were the bloggers who just happen to be people you can type really really loudly on the internwebs.
For most people it didn't matter as they were covered or had decent coverage by AT&T. Personally I find it more telling that Verizon has plans to throttle heavy user before launch. While I don't expect a big difference in service it just might happen in a few markets.

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Re:This is certainly not news by jdpars · 2011-02-09 09:59 · Score: 5, Informative

The CDMA iPhone actually does have an antenna change, which most of these "OMG VERIZON DEATH GRIP IPHONE" hacks are ignoring. There are two antennas (as is standard in CDMA), one on each side of the phone. To block most of these (and actually drop a call) you have to squeeze pretty hard (and possibly put the phone in a lead box). Getting the bars to decrease and getting a call to end are two entirely different things.
Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 10:03 · Score: 2, Informative

It's not news because it's how radios work. All phones have a "death grip" that drops the signal. The Verizon iPhone's grip is different from AT&T's, because the antennas are different.
Re:This is certainly not news by commodore64_love · 2011-02-09 10:09 · Score: 1

>>>All phones have a "death grip" that drops the signal.
Mine doesn't. That's because it has an actual antenna sticking out the top of it. Unfortunately recent government regulations made that illegal (for fear of the antenna beaming into the brain), so it has to be buried in the phone, or the bottom, where the human hand can block it.

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Re:This is certainly not news by rtfa-troll · 2011-02-09 10:13 · Score: 1

All phones have a "death grip" that drops the signal.
Except that that's total crap and has been gone over on slashdot so often that I refuse to even give you a link. The recap is; all phones can have the signal physically blocked by putting bits of your body between the antenna and the signal source. This causes some signal loss, but is difficult to notice under normal circumstances. The iPhone has an external non-insulated antenna which, when you touch it, get's detuned. This causes a larger signal strength drop than in almost any circumstance on a normal phone. The solution; hold it differently or buy an insulating cover which separates your finger from the iPhone. If you have insualtion then you will go back to the same level as problem as a normal phone.
People who either deny it or claim that it's the end of the world are both wrong.

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Re:This is certainly not news by icebike · 2011-02-09 10:16 · Score: 5, Informative

Two antennas aren't going to solve the death grip, and CDMA antennas are not much different than 3G/GSM antennas. (And the iPhone always had two antenna halves, one on either side). Antenna length is almost always dictated by frequency in use, and the CDMA bands are pretty close to the 3G bands such that the same antennas can be used for both.
Death grip was caused by human fingers bridging a gap between the 3G antenna and the WIFI antenna, and it could happen with a single finger touching the gap. No actual "Grip" required. The problem was solved with free bumpers, and users learning to avoid touching the gap. See this wired article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/iphone-its-the-antenna-stupid/
Apple pushed the myth of the death grip, to try to divert attention from their design flaw. It was never about the grip. It was only about bridging that gap. The free bumpers eliminated the problem.
If the Verizon phones lack that gap, then any signal decrease caused by holding it is the same as you see on any other cell phone but don't confuse that the antennagate on the original iphone 4.

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Re:This is certainly not news by mini+me · 2011-02-09 10:17 · Score: 1

I distinctly remember having to hold my iPhone 3G in a way that did not cover the bottom portion of the phone when I first purchased it. My carrier has done some network upgrades since and it is no longer a problem, but why weren't people freaking out about "antennagate" way back then?
Re:This is certainly not news by tripleevenfall · 2011-02-09 10:24 · Score: 1

There's a difference between "all phones have an antenna" (duh), and "the antenna is exposed to conductive material by human skin contact" which has a very different effect than locating your hand near the in-case antenna.
Re:This is certainly not news by GooberToo · 2011-02-09 10:29 · Score: 2

I thought all this was very well known up front. I read articles months ago about how they did not address the "death grip" issue at all. And according to what I read, the ONLY changes made were a CDMA specific antenna and corresponding chipset/drivers. Assuming that's true, how could anyone possibly be surprised that the same issue persists. After all, I've not read anything which supports Apple even attempted to remediate the issue.
Its basically the same 'ol device with the same 'ol flaws.
Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:33 · Score: 0, Troll

The only ones who were expecting different results were the bloggers who just happen to be people you can type really really loudly on the internwebs.
It sure as hell wouldn't be the devoted Applefags who bought the iPhone for the brand name status symbol, not for its impressive radio performance.
Re:This is certainly not news by schnikies79 · 2011-02-09 10:44 · Score: 1

"recent government regulations made that illegal"
[Citation needed]
I quit using them after breaking them off (three times in total).

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Gone!
Re:This is certainly not news by icebike · 2011-02-09 10:46 · Score: 1

Except that that's total crap and has been gone over on slashdot so often that I refuse to even give you a link.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/iphone-its-the-antenna-stupid/
I did it for you. I know, it gets old, but Education is a continuous job.

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Re:This is certainly not news by juasko · 2011-02-09 10:57 · Score: 1

Well, I had same thing happen on my Nokia E71.
While the iPhone4 is more sensitive for a touch at that gap, I have never had a dropped call. But it drops data over 3g vary easily. But so on the nokia too, just less sensitive than the iphone4.
What surprises me is that it's basically only when you touch that gap. Touching the antennas with same hand but not at the gap does not affect it much at all.
Only way i can explain that is that it's with misty (sweat?) fingers that gives a connection on the surface of the skin. Not connection trough the flesh. So if you got dry hands, you probably have less problems with death grip.
Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 11:03 · Score: 0

And the same 'ol simple fix. When my boss bought the Iphone4 he showed me how simple placing your fingers across the antenna lowers the signal, and in AT&T's case you need all the signal you can get. He simply bought a protective case for the phone, which most people should do anyways since it's glass on both sides and the problem was solved.
On a side note: For anyone that likes the simple yet functional layout of the Iphone but hates apple, try the MIUI mod for Android phones. You get an Iphone lookalike, but with the added functionality of widgets, multitasking and the notifications bar that Android offers.
Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 11:05 · Score: 1

So the solution is to stick UK subway stickers on it? "Mind the Gap"
Re:This is certainly not news by Mike+Buddha · 2011-02-09 11:07 · Score: 1

You don't need to touch an antenna to attenuate it's signal, it's just much worse when you do, which is why this touchable-antenna-on-the-outside-of-the-phone is just plain bad engineering.

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Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 11:12 · Score: 0

Can I take the opportunity to say, whatever your feelings about Apple and their products, that I hope you can join me (and all those that love computers and internet freedom) in hoping that Steve Jobs dies quite soon.
Of course there's always a chance that he can be held underground for 4 days and then he'll restart - just like his toy computers (even the pro models lol.)
Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 11:13 · Score: 0

So basically - you're holding it wrong?
Re:This is certainly not news by icebike · 2011-02-09 11:15 · Score: 1

Or a Bandaid: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-20011050-233.html

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Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 11:21 · Score: 0

Please mod parent down.
Node3 is a known Apple troll and detrimental to this website (and its reputation.)
Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous+Freak · 2011-02-09 11:33 · Score: 1

*BWAHAHAHA*! Oh, man, that's a good one.
Detrimental to this website and its reputation? What reputation? The reputation of uber-geeks that bash Microsoft and Apple at every opportunity, warranted or not?

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Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous+Freak · 2011-02-09 11:36 · Score: 1

Out of curiosity, your sig says that your dialup provides 14 GB...
I'm assuming you really mean "my dialup has no cap", since even if you saturated it 24/7, you'd barely exceed 14 GB.

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Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 12:01 · Score: 1

Death grip was caused by human fingers bridging a gap between the 3G antenna and the WIFI antenna, and it could happen with a single finger touching the gap. No actual "Grip" required. The problem was solved with free bumpers, and users learning to avoid touching the gap. See this wired article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/iphone-its-the-antenna-stupid/
Mots of those reports are horribly overblown. Most people (including me) have never been able to reproduce anything more than reducing 4 bars down to 3 bars. I've never dropped calls by "holding it wrong", even when I've only got 1 bar of signal.
I suspect it only happens when the *cell tower* is overloaded. It's not the phone that can't pick up the signal, it's the cell tower dropping whoever has the weakest signal - not because the signal is too weak, but just because it has to pick someone to drop when overloaded. The phones with the weakest signal are the most likely to be in range of some other nearby tower, which is hopefully not overloaded. In the wired article you posted, it may be that the nearby tower dropped the phone, causing it to quietly re-connect to a completely different tower that's too far away to get good signal.
Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 12:04 · Score: 0

Hmm first of all, I'm pretty sure that all 3G systems use some kind of CDMA, including AT&T's.
Second of all, the frequencies used even for the same technologies are different in different countries anyway.
Re:This is certainly not news by icebike · 2011-02-09 12:26 · Score: 1

You are correct, AT&T's UMTS is based on a W-CDMA technology. But its not inter-operable with Verizon CDMA.
As for frequencies, they don't differ that much from country to country. That is why any Quad Band GSM
phone will work in any GSM network. They vary slightly within the same bands but not enough to require different antenna lengths.
Also, another point of interest is that the Verizon Iphone 4 has a dual mode GSM / CDMA radio, (which Apple never told us about), so it may well be it can become a world phone with just a IOS upgrade.

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Re:This is certainly not news by Nocuous · 2011-02-09 12:56 · Score: 1

Absolutely. This phenomenon is related to a design flaw in the hardware, not in the carrier. I've enjoyed Verizon service for a long time, but I'd never expect its holy touch could heal the leprous iPhone.

Geez.

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Re:This is certainly not news by XxtraLarGe · 2011-02-09 13:32 · Score: 5, Interesting

For most people it didn't matter as they were covered or had decent coverage by AT&T.
My workplace bought iPhone 4's for everyone who needed to be on call. When I first got mine, I tried to duplicate the issue and wasn't able to. Neither were my co-workers. Completely covering the phone antenna with my hands may have resulted in a one bar drop. We have O.K. AT&T coverage, but not great. This was much ado about nothing.

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Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 13:37 · Score: 2

>>>All phones have a "death grip" that drops the signal.
Mine doesn't. That's because it has an actual antenna sticking out the top of it.
Ok, Einstein, cover the antenna with your hand and report back.
*Every* phone has a death grip because that's how radio works. The only way to eliminate it is to use different frequencies, higher powers, or larger antennas, such that the hand is insufficient to attenuate the signal.
Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 13:39 · Score: 1

The iPhone has an external non-insulated antenna which, when you touch it, get's detuned.
This is false. Every phone has a signal weakness. Some only require a finger in a certain spot (including non-iPhones), others require a hand covering a large area. The AT&T iPhone has a spot. The Verizon iPhone requires a full-on "death grip".
Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 13:40 · Score: 1

There's a difference between "all phones have an antenna" (duh), and "the antenna is exposed to conductive material by human skin contact" which has a very different effect than locating your hand near the in-case antenna.
Because that's not what's happening.
Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 13:43 · Score: 1

You don't need to touch an antenna to attenuate it's signal, it's just much worse when you do, which is why this touchable-antenna-on-the-outside-of-the-phone is just plain bad engineering.
But this doesn't happen on the Verizon iPhone (and doesn't seem to plaque people on non-AT&T GSM iPhone 4's either).
The iPhone 4's antenna starts out with a better signal, due to what you call "bad engineering". The normal "death grip" signal loss is still better *except* when you touch it at one particular point, in which case it drops worse (and may even drop the call, depending on your initial signal quality).
The Verizon iPhone 4 has the exact same type of external antenna, but not the exact same type of attenuation issue. It's issue is just the normal "cover the whole thing and grip tight" and it doesn't attenuate as bad as many other phones, including the GSM iPhone 4 on AT&T. That doesn't point to the external antenna design being innately bad engineering.
Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 13:49 · Score: 1

Did you forget to include any actual content? If facts equal trolling and are detrimental to a site, that says a lot about the site, don't you think?
My post contained both facts and reasoning, i.e. a valid argument. Yours is just trolling and is actually detrimental to this website (although its reputation is already tarnished as a hive of socially awkward nerds, so at least you're fine here in that regard).
Re:This is certainly not news by dudpixel · 2011-02-09 14:39 · Score: 2

you do realize they updated the way the phone calculates the number of bars displayed. Many experts noted that its difficult to actually measure the phone's actual reception, since its impossible to know if the phone is lying to you or not.
Try it whilst on a call in an area where reception isn't strong...if the call drops, then the issue remains.
It applies to most phones, but the iphone 4 seems to be affected more easily, due to the antenna placement.
What people found, was not that antennagate didn't exist, but that it doesn't have a huge impact if you already have good reception.

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Re:This is certainly not news by BitZtream · 2011-02-09 15:09 · Score: 0

Considering the phone when 'death gripped' still out performs almost everything else on the market, its really fucking retarded to call it 'the death grip problem'. I really wish we'd stop using extreme names for trivial to non-existent issues.
Yes, the signal quality goes down. No, its not a problem that actually bothers anyone.

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Re:This is certainly not news by crossword.bob · 2011-02-09 16:21 · Score: 2

Bridging the gap with your finger partially detunes the antenna; since your skin is not a perfect conductor, the charge carriers moving in the antenna effectively go through a "tunnelling" effect at the gap. This is probablistic in nature, meaning that a proportion of such carriers will continue to behave as though the antenna was at its normal length. What you would see by analysing the received frequencies is that the normal frequencies would be diminished but not obliterated when the gap is bridged. In low signal or with wet fingers this could be enough to kill the reception, but under normal circumstances it'll cope just fine. Thin tape will decrease the tunnelling effect, but not enough to make a qualitative difference. A bumper, or other insulator of similar thickness, reduces it to negligible levels.
As a contrary type person, I have a habit of conducting calls on my (naked) iPhone 4 (in the UK) with my finger purposely bridging this gap, just because it amuses me to prove the doomsayers wrong on a daily basis.
Re:This is certainly not news by arose · 2011-02-09 16:38 · Score: 1

Hell, it was called even before the issue cropped up in the wild: http://translate.google.dk/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comon.dk%2Fnyheder%2FEr-iPhone-4-foedt-med-antenne-problemer-1.362104.html&sl=da&tl=en

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Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Re:This is certainly not news by Aeternitas827 · 2011-02-09 17:07 · Score: 2

Also, another point of interest is that the Verizon Iphone 4 has a dual mode GSM / CDMA radio, (which Apple never told us about), so it may well be it can become a world phone with just a IOS upgrade.
Except for the lack of a SIM tray. The radio can support GSM all it wants, if there's nowhere to put a SIM the functionality is pretty well useless.

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Re:This is certainly not news by mirix · 2011-02-09 17:16 · Score: 1

(and possibly put the phone in a lead box).

Lead being good at shielding RF is a common misconception it seems. Plain steel is far, far better, and mu-metal and similar compounds are really the way to go.
Now, if the iPhone receives gamma rays, it would be a different situation.

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Sent from my PDP-11
Re:This is certainly not news by crossword.bob · 2011-02-09 17:23 · Score: 1

I really wish we'd stop using extreme names for trivial to non-existent issues.
Hell yes. C.f. devices needing reboot/restore to factory default being "bricked".
Re:This is certainly not news by mjwx · 2011-02-09 17:32 · Score: 1

The CDMA iPhone actually does have an antenna change
But it's still on the outside, which is what the problem was with the GSM antenna. So it uses a different frequency and has a different electrical length, that's still going to be interfered with if you introduce a new conductor to the antenna.
So back to what the OP said, why would you expect a different result.

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Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 18:23 · Score: 0

My post contained both facts and reasoning, i.e. a valid argument. Yours is just trolling and is actually detrimental to this website (although its reputation is already tarnished as a hive of socially awkward nerds, so at least you're fine here in that regard).
BAWAHAHAHA!!!!! Oh god, thank you. I needed that laugh. Seriously, you wouldn't know fact and reasoning if it bit you on the ass as hard as it can. Seriously, look at all your posts about this story to begin with. You've tried to deny in just about every post that there is no problem with the antenna, and yet it seems to be the same problem about the same phone by the same company that even you've stated was built the same. News flash, this is really happening, this isn't some secret society bent on making things up against Apple and getting a ton of people in on it. When someone says something bad about Apple, quick to Apples rescue, there you are. Almost like clock work. You have the reputation as one of the biggest Apple trolls here by MANY users. Maybe you should learn to take a hint, but I'm doubting you would be able to.
Re:This is certainly not news by intellitech · 2011-02-09 18:59 · Score: 1

The problem was solved with free bumpers, and users learning to avoid touching the gap. See this wired article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/iphone-its-the-antenna-stupid/ [wired.com]
I still don't understand why this problem hasn't been fixed by now. The mere fact that users need to learn to avoid this "gap" in order to get proper functionality out of their phone is kind of insane.

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Re:This is certainly not news by arivanov · 2011-02-09 19:17 · Score: 1

It is not a coverage test, it is not an antenna test. It is a "how dry is your skin" test.
In any case, it is not the first phone to use big bits of the casing as an antenna. A lot of Nokia E series use the battery cover as an antenna so if your hands are wet you can see similar drops as well.

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Re:This is certainly not news by Stevecrox · 2011-02-09 19:48 · Score: 2

No dropping from 4 bars to 3 is a huge performance drop on an iPhone 4. Tests show the iPhones 5 bar coverage is actually quite a weak signal. I'm not certain if 3 bars is enough to do anything more than send text messages. See here for Apples admission of the problem, Slashdot also had a story with the actual numbers.

While there is no standard for displaying signal strength Apple massaged the figures by quite a bit. For an example a friend lives in a signal trouble area. In that area my Nokia reports 1 bar, you can make calls (quality is terrible) but text messages can sometimes pick up a delay. My friends iPhone 3GS reports 5 bars (still) although if he tries to make a call it's dropped quickly.

Your demonstrating one of the most annoy traits of an iDevice owner (any fanboy really) rather than accept there's a flaw in your device and it isn't perfect everything else is to blame. I love Symbian I think Nokia would be foolish to drop it but I long ago accepted that a lot of people seem to be gifted at breaking Symbian devices. My biggest concern with phones right now is Elop will drop Meego. I've waited over a year to have a play with one before I lock myself into a 2 year contract (current plan is for a WP7 phone)
Re:This is certainly not news by bemymonkey · 2011-02-09 20:01 · Score: 1

Correct, the "death grip" everyone is confused with is present on nearly all handsets... It's only the short-circuit due to the external antennas on the original iPhone4 that was new.
And the actual deathgrip issue (without the short circuit) is actually quite mild on the iPhone 4, as far as I can tell. The only people doing better in that department are Motorola (couldn't get my old Milestone to drop further than 2dB, no matter how I held it), while HTC are more or less the worst offenders (My Desire's signal strength will drop by about 20dB depending on how I hold it)...
Re:This is certainly not news by Stevecrox · 2011-02-09 20:01 · Score: 1

The iPhone 4 doesn't just have a death grip issue, your right if you hold 99% of phones in a death grip they will lose signal. However Apple placed the wifi and phone antenna's on the outside. If you touch the gap between the antenna's with your little finger and bridge the antenna's the iPhone 4 will start losing signal strength. You don't actually need to be even holding the phone to repeat the problem.
Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 20:31 · Score: 0

no not news at all all ipod buyers are apple fanboys so it is no surprise there has been no mass return it's an apple so it's perfect (NOT) it's an apple so it's a pile of excrement fouling everyday life with it's putrifying odurs '
Re:This is certainly not news by beelsebob · 2011-02-09 20:43 · Score: 1

You know, there's a saying about doing the same thing over and expecting a different result...
The issue being that the thing you quoted is a flat out lie. The GSM iPhone 4 has one antenna up it's right hand side for GSM, if you bridge it with the base of the phone, it shorts out and gets shit reception. The CDMA one has two antennas, up both sides of the device. The key here is that they've replicated the death grip, not the touch of death – because apple fixed the touch of death. The death grip by comparison is something that all phones suffer from... The iPhone 4 did, the 3GS did, the 3G did, the Nexus did, hell, your ancient Nokia xx10 did... Apple is not going to magically solve the basic problem that phone signals don't travel through hands well.
Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 21:06 · Score: 1

Do re-read your post and explain how *I'm* the troll.
Re:This is certainly not news by Xest · 2011-02-09 21:45 · Score: 1

Yet my two colleagues with iPhone 4s can replicate it perfectly suffering complete signal loss, despite having line of site and being easily within visible range of the closest cell tower, and this is in the UK, where the cell phone networks are much better than in the US.
Both have had to use bumpers on their phones to be able to use them as and when they want.
That's the problem with anecdotes, they don't represent everyone's experience, and are hence stupid to jump to generalised conclusions from.
Re:This is certainly not news by oji-sama · 2011-02-09 21:50 · Score: 1

A lot of Nokia E series use the battery cover as an antenna
Really? Can you give an example? (I'm honestly surprised)

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Re:This is certainly not news by oji-sama · 2011-02-09 21:58 · Score: 2

My biggest concern with phones right now is Elop will drop Meego. I've waited over a year to have a play with one before I lock myself into a 2 year contract (current plan is for a WP7 phone)
Oh yes. Mine too. I didn't get the N900 when it came out and now I've been waiting for a Meego-phone. I don't have anything against Symbian (nor iOS / Android), but I really want a truly open phone. (I'm basing this on N810 which I still own, although it doesn't really get much use anymore...)

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It is what it is.
Re:This is certainly not news by AmiMoJo · 2011-02-10 01:29 · Score: 1

It would be commercial suicide to fix the death grip problem because it would mean admitting that it exists. Apple's official line is that there is no problem, but as a gesture of goodwill they gave everyone a free rubber bumper anyway.
If a 4.1 version came out with a fix all existing customers would have a legitimate argument for getting a free upgrade. Not sure about the US but in the UK design defects have to be put right for the typical lifetime of the product, which for a phone is 5 or 6 years.

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Re:This is certainly not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-10 02:46 · Score: 0

Who does this really effect? The stories made the death grip sound like it was the end of the iPhone but Apple did not do much to fix it. I also never heard anybody mention that it effects them. I am an Android fan and I would love to hear bad news about the iPhone but I don't see this as one of them. I see it more as it is possible to reduce the 3G performance by doing something that nobody would actually do in normal phone use.

This was fixed by commodore64_love · 2011-02-09 09:54 · Score: 2

With a free rubber bumper that prevents the finger from touching the metal antenna.

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Re:This was fixed by tripleevenfall · 2011-02-09 09:59 · Score: 1

For my part, using a case (I opted for an Incase case and not the lameo apple bumper) doesn't seem to change anything. But, also in my anecdotal experience, the problem doesn't manifest itself that often. It seems to me (personal theory with no evidence behind it) that if you just barely have coverage, this will degrade it to nothing, but if you are someplace where you have a good signal it's not noticable.
Re:This was fixed by geekoid · 2011-02-09 10:08 · Score: 1

That's not a fix. It's an ugly marketing hack.

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Re:This was fixed by arose · 2011-02-09 16:33 · Score: 1

And destroys the sleek look that the fancy new antenna was supposed to facilitate...

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Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.

not surprising by TrancePhreak · 2011-02-09 09:55 · Score: 1

Perhaps they were so used to lousy data service and dropped calls that they didn't notice the death grip? Apple giving away a bunch of phone protectors probably also helped.

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-]Phreak Out[-

Bloggers by bonch · 2011-02-09 09:57 · Score: 1, Insightful

bloggers looking for something to write about.

Like Slashdot?

The so-called "death grip" also affected non-iPhones, as demonstrated by countless YouTube videos at the time. It was a non-story.

Re:Bloggers by ocdscouter · 2011-02-09 10:27 · Score: 1

Does that mean death grips are non-denominational?
Re:Bloggers by Mike+Buddha · 2011-02-09 11:09 · Score: 1

It was demonstrated that great pains could be taken to attentuate the signals of other cell phones, and minor contact could attenuate the signals of the iPhone 4. Design FAIL.

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by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.

No It Isn't!!! by spiedrazer · 2011-02-09 10:01 · Score: 0

See Here: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379903,00.asp

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Keep passing the open windows...

Correct. See Link by spiedrazer · 2011-02-09 10:02 · Score: 1

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379903,00.asp

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Keep passing the open windows...

Breaking News by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:03 · Score: 0

A non-issue continues to be a non-issue. More as it develops.

Funny by Dan+East · 2011-02-09 10:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

That's funny, because I was reading the exact opposite today:

"This isn't just a case where Apple took a CDMA chip and slapped it into the iPhone and called it Verizon. They actually redesigned the entire logic board, including the electromagnetic shields," iFixit's M.J. explains in a video for the repair site. "Apple's RF engineering team did a great job at restructuring the antenna, so hopefully we don't have the same death-grip problem that saddled its AT&T brother."

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Verizon-iPhone-4-May-Offer-Hints-at-iPhone-5-iFixit-815631/

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Better known as 318230.

Re:Funny by blair1q · 2011-02-09 10:57 · Score: 1

I've seen two other articles saying the "you're holding it wrong" problem had been fixed in the Verizon phones. I thought the /. headline was just another submission mistake. Guess not...

er... by Wrexs0ul · 2011-02-09 10:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

"despite the media-furor, consumers did not line up at Apple Stores demanding refunds"

Of course not. The tech savvy waited for their free case, and the knuckle-dragging hipsters bought a fashionable iGlove.

How exactly are Analysts still getting paid to analyze this?

-Matt

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--- Need web hosting?

Re:er... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:29 · Score: 0

Tech-savy and knuckle-draggers are often the same group.
Re:er... by acrobg · 2011-02-09 10:47 · Score: 1

Of course people didn't return their phones. Do you know how inconvenient it is to terminate a contract on a new phone, activate an old phone, and get back on with life? Not to mention the costs associated.
Re:er... by neoform · 2011-02-10 03:28 · Score: 1

I recently bought an iPhone 4. I haven't been using a bumper or gloves and have yet to run in to reception issues...

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MABASPLOOM!

Meh by rwa2 · 2011-02-09 10:06 · Score: 1

Ha, I have something of the opposite problem with my HTC Android phone. At work (in the secret underground bunker), it doesn't get a signal anywhere at all. Unless it's sitting in my pocket under my desk, then it somehow manages to barely hold onto an EDGE link.

Anyway, a half decent solution to either issue is a bluetooth headset, which I'm sure the iPhone crowd could afford ;-P

Re:Meh by ColdWetDog · 2011-02-09 10:42 · Score: 1

Ha, I have something of the opposite problem with my HTC Android phone. At work (in the secret underground bunker), it doesn't get a signal anywhere at all. Unless it's sitting in my pocket under my desk, then it somehow manages to barely hold onto an EDGE link.;-P
Fool. That's because the cheap Chinese power strip on the floor is really a secret WIFI point with a VPN tunnel to some rice swilling hackers north of Bejing. We told you all to get American Made power strips. Now it's too late.

Oh, and the Reality Distortion Field prevents this stuff from happening. Just so you'll know next time to get an iPhone.

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:Meh by rrossman2 · 2011-02-09 11:06 · Score: 1

Well that's obvious! It's using the "antenna" next to your pocket to boost the signal!
Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 11:46 · Score: 0

Or you could use the ear buds that come with every iPhone.

Yes it is by geekoid · 2011-02-09 10:07 · Score: 1

Besides the fact that I can recreate in my office, the article you link to shows it has an effect.

He used logical fallacy's as a reason it doesn't exist, then when ti does appear in his own test he writes it off as 'not significant'

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The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

God here we go again.....all phones have the issue by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:09 · Score: 0

What retard is going to hold the phone like that and my Droid Incredible suffers the same thing if you hold it like that. All phones do.....search www.youtube.com. Its probably someone at Google trying to start up another media frenzy!!

Apple users... by syousef · 2011-02-09 10:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

...are some of the most loyal on the planet. My experience is that a lot of them buy the device to be trendy and not for it's functionality. In the same way that fashion brands for shoes, perfumes or clothing may not be functionally the best but are still sold because people have bought into the brand. So like other fashion victims Apple users when confronted will often insist the device just works flawlessly and that they've never had a problem even if it doesn't. A lot of them don't use any advanced functionality, so they're oblivious to restrictions.

Apple's genius is in the marketing, like many of the big brands. It's easy to argue that McDonalds don't make the best burgers (and aren't as cheap as they once were!), Nike don't make the best shoes etc. yet they are still worth a mint and their product still sells in large numbers. It's not about phone engineering. It's about social engineering.

Watch this get modded as troll/flamebait. It's not.

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer

Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:26 · Score: 1

if my iPhone dropped calls when I held it, I would take it back. I buy Apple products because they work well for the use cases I care about (generally, those use cases are getting shit done with the least amount of effort), and if it suffered from this problem it would no longer fill those requirements. perhaps this is a genuine problem for some people, but I haven't had it occur once and I use my iPhone to make calls in all kinds of coverage situations all day every day. to me it seems like a design tradeoff of the antenna which almost never causes problems in real-world use, but is being blown out of proportion by haters.
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:31 · Score: 1

On the contrary, Apple's customers are the biggest bunch of griping whiners that get together in the great internet echo chamber and howl about every blemish they find. They may get defensive when some alpha-nerd starts quizzing them as to why they didn't buy some other smartphone they've never heard of, but I can assure you that when it comes to bitching at Apple, they don't hold back.
I don't see why it's so hard for Apple product bashers to come to terms with the fact that the iPhone really is a pretty great contraption. Survey after survey shows that people love the goddamned things - battery life and AT&T aside. The RDF alone does not explain 90+% customer satisfaction.
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:33 · Score: 0

...are some of the most loyal on the planet. My experience is that a lot of them buy the device to be trendy and not for it's functionality.
So you've never talked to an Android user, a specific Linux distro user, an RTS gamer, a video card advocate, etc etc etc.
Hell you can see posts on Slashdot by some of the above user types that make even the most rabid Apple user seem normal.
Re:Apple users... by MightyYar · 2011-02-09 10:35 · Score: 1

It's easy to argue that McDonalds don't make the best burgers
I find this to be an odd analogy... McDonalds goes for the low end and Apple goes for the high end. And Nike has a product spread from the relative cheap to the fairly high end (for athletic shoes), while Apple has no such spread.
You'd have to look at a company that does not measure success with market share. To use a car analogy, they are more like BMW. High end with no low-end offerings, limited selection, and content to occupy only that space.
The iPhone is for people who are willing to drop a couple hundred on a phone, who don't have philosophical problems with Apple's walled garden, who don't need a keyboard, who like the large app library, and who are attracted to the overall simplicity. People who still want a smart phone but don't see exactly what they want with the Apple have a large selection of Motorola, HTC, Samsung, and other models running a variety of OSes. People who want a no-nonsense experience and a keyboard can get a Blackberry. And of course, many, many people still buy the "Chevy" - the flip or feature phone.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:35 · Score: 0

As a rule of thumb, if you say "THIS IS NOT A TROLL," it probably is.
Re:Apple users... by Colonel+Korn · 2011-02-09 10:43 · Score: 0

It's easy to argue that McDonalds don't make the best burgers
I find this to be an odd analogy... McDonalds goes for the low end and Apple goes for the high end. And Nike has a product spread from the relative cheap to the fairly high end (for athletic shoes), while Apple has no such spread.
You'd have to look at a company that does not measure success with market share. To use a car analogy, they are more like BMW. High end with no low-end offerings, limited selection, and content to occupy only that space.
The iPhone is for people who are willing to drop a couple hundred on a phone, who don't have philosophical problems with Apple's walled garden, who don't need a keyboard, who like the large app library, and who are attracted to the overall simplicity. People who still want a smart phone but don't see exactly what they want with the Apple have a large selection of Motorola, HTC, Samsung, and other models running a variety of OSes. People who want a no-nonsense experience and a keyboard can get a Blackberry. And of course, many, many people still buy the "Chevy" - the flip or feature phone.
Apple only goes for the high end in terms of price, not in terms of the quality or components in its products. Perhaps a good analogous non-tech company would be Juicy Couture - it's about design and price, not quality. With Apple's hardware generally a generation behind PCs or Android phones, it fills a specialty niche role, not a high end role.

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"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Re:Apple users... by hercubus · 2011-02-09 10:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

Apple users are some of the most loyal on the planet...
... Apple users ... insist the device just works flawlessly and that they've never had a problem.
As a loyal Apple customer enjoying my flawless devices, this is what I got out of your post.
Why would anyone mod you troll?

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-- How I want a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.
Re:Apple users... by robco74 · 2011-02-09 10:54 · Score: 1

I would argue the point about iOS devices being more about form than function. With the explosion of apps, iOS devices are just as functional, if not more functional than Blackberry, WinMo or Android devices. About the only hardware function the iPhone lacks compared to other shipping (not announced) devices is support for NFC. When the iPhone first came out, its functionality was limited. This was partially due to Apple's tradition of not slapping new tech into their devices in order to be buzzword compliant and waiting until they can do a more polished implementation. This is in stark contrast to Google's perpetual beta method. Apple has added a lot of functionality with each iOS update and third-party devs can add even more.
Apple is one of the few tech companies that has both solid engineering as well as good design (hardware and software). Their laptops are very functional as well as being very well designed. Apple may jump on every new technology and implement it right away, but that doesn't mean they don't value function. It means they don't want to ship half-baked solutions. But there is little a Blackberry, WinMo, Android or webOS device can do that iOS can't.
That being said, I can see how some might hit the walls of the walled garden (I haven't), or may prefer to tinker with their products and such. It's all good. I just hate it when anyone who uses an Apple product is immediately dismissed as being ignorant and uniformed, shallow, etc. Some of us are actually well aware of the alternatives and choose Apple over the other options. Other people, informed or not, will make different choices and that's OK. I don't think people who use Windows are idiots. I understand some people who bathe regularly like Linux. We all have different needs and desires.
Re:Apple users... by alvinrod · 2011-02-09 11:09 · Score: 1

It's not just about the hardware; it's about the software the runs on that hardware as well. By limiting the selection of hardware that they use, even if it's not top end, they can optimize the software to squeeze out every last bit of performance from it, whether in terms of raw performance or battery life. Apple has also decided that device aesthetics are important. When was the last time an Apple product was made out of cheap plastic? There's more to a product than just a spec sheet and feature checklist.

If you went back to the car analogy, it's like using a L6 engine rather than a V12, but tuning the hell out of that engine to provide the best experience for that vehicle. Just like you can find a well designed notebook that has a much better processor, but you generally can't find one that has the same small form factor, good design, great battery life, and price range.

If it does fill a niche role it's a pretty damned large niche and an even better one to fill. There isn't one other phone manufacturer that wouldn't trade places with Apple at the drop of a hat. Even if you account for some of their success due to their rabid^H^H^H^H^Hloyal fanbase, they're selling more phones and tablets than they ever have Macs. There are a lot of consumers who are saying that despite any limitations the platform may have, it actually suits their needs very well and that they'd like to purchase said devices.
Re:Apple users... by rrossman2 · 2011-02-09 11:09 · Score: 1

I agree with this to an extent. Just like people like to exclaim how OS X is better than windows hands down.. it does have its advantages, but it also has its downsides. In Windows, when I hit the damn maximize button, the window MAXIMIZES; in OS X, when you hit the green + button, the window "Maximizes" to a size Apple thinks it "large enough"...
I know it's something minor, but MAN does that annoy the crap out of me lol
Re:Apple users... by MightyYar · 2011-02-09 11:12 · Score: 2

With Apple's hardware generally a generation behind PCs or Android phones, it fills a specialty niche role, not a high end role.
I'm not sure I follow... At any moment, there may be one or possibly two other high-end phones that equal the specs of the iPhone - and even then it is difficult to do a 1:1 comparison because different companies use different strategies to strike a compromise between performance and battery life. In any event, I've never heard anyone say with a straight face that the current-generation iPhone is not high-end. Not highest-end, sure, but usually it is among the top in terms of specs and capability.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Apple users... by rrossman2 · 2011-02-09 11:14 · Score: 1

But BMW wouldn't be a good example either. They do offer "lower end" $30,000), such as the 1-Series.
It would be more like Aston Martin, Bentley, Maserati, Crown (a Japanese luxury division of Toyota), etc.
Re:Apple users... by juasko · 2011-02-09 11:20 · Score: 0

I never bought Apple stuff for trendiness, I've always bought apple stuff for functionality. Functionality I've seldom seen from any other tech company. Apple has made crappy stuff to, but in general for my usage they so far made the best stuff out there.
True, a NeXT computer would have been better, but at that time I was still not even having a weekly allowance from my parents. If Android would have been around in 2006, I'm sure I've be using a Android phone now. But it was Apple who where first around the block to make a useful smartphone. The nokias where filled with functionality, but lacked usability.
The iOS is not perfect neither is MacOSX, IMO latest osx version got bad, though it's better optimized etc, but functionality is less than 10.5 and even less than System 7 on the same points where I find 10.6 gone backwards.
But there is nothing to compete with it. Windows 7, not a chance. Linux, not enough grown up yet and it's open source which equals "lack of vision on how to evolve", just copying others, mostly Microsoft. It's not bad just not as much out of my way as osx is.
So to me a system that is sleek to use, is functional. That is all about functionality. Then when that is achieved, it doesn't matter weather it lacks MMS or true multitasking. As long as it gets what i want done, simply and effectively, what tech it uses is a second hand issue.
MMS btw the most overrated function on mobiles today. Would have been glad if that had not been implemented on the iphone, people would actually then learnt to use mail instead. And with e-mail, sms is a function that just as well could be killed.
Re:Apple users... by spiedrazer · 2011-02-09 11:23 · Score: 1

My New Verizon iPhone4 is my first Apple product other than an iPod. I don't upgrade phones until my contract is up, so I couldn't really get a smartphone until about 4 months ago. I could have gotten an Android then, but waited for the iPhone so I could re-use all my music and other stuff in iTunes. No-one has ever really convinced me that an Android or other phone is better than an iPhone, nor do I think the iPhone is better than an Android. It just made more sense to me for convenience sake. My point is that I don't think I have a huge loyalty to Apple. My new phone does not seem to have a death grip issue (where shorting multiple antenna segments kills your signal). It does experience a degradation if you cradle the phone to hide the antenna, but all cell phones have this issue.

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Keep passing the open windows...
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 11:29 · Score: 0

Some people are fashion addicts idiots, news at 20!
Interpolating from there and saying that all iPhone buyers are like that, which must means that Apple is a marketing company is idiotic at best.
Here's my story :
I had the opportunity to change mobiles not so long ago, and I switched to an iPhone. Guess why?
Because I had been using an Android phone for a year (can't say I didn't try), and there was NO WAY IN HELL I was going to jump through the same hoops again
- quick os deprecation (oh, you wanted that shiny 2.2? sorry, you'll have to stay with 1.5, buy our new phone if you want it!)
- low quality components, completely dependent on the model... each has its strengths and flaws (GPS that takes lots of time to initialize, shitty screen resolution, defunct sdcard slot, battery that lasts less than one day... pick your poison)
- market flooded with crappy rip-offs (which is better, a fully open market full of crap or a restrictive one? do complainers realize that even in debian software repositories for example, not everyone can upload their crap at will?)
- interface lags (seriously, did anyone even QC this? It seems to be a recurring problem I've seen on other (even recent ones) Android models)
My first reaction when using the iPhone was
Wow, there's less stuff than Android! No parallaxed background, no widgets, no menus to bring on long press, no button to go back one step...
My second reaction was
Wow, It's actually easier to use!
It does not lack features, but Android seems like it's filled with useless ones. It's beautiful in a Zen sort of way, it's simply works and nothing goes against your will in it (except Apple nazi app policy, I want my porn back god damn it Steve!).
The multitasking is better handled, apps in background don't drain the battery much, and you can just switch to any background app or kill it by double clicking the menu button. No need to install an external task manager application!
You don't have widgets, but then you don't have to pull a menu to launch an application.
The GPS is surprisingly quick to initialize, overall the hardware is nearly flawless except for that antena problem (beautiful screen, the glass surface feeling is really enjoyable, the battery lasts at least 2 or 3 times as much as my previous phone, the speaker has a much better sound quality, same goes for the camera, etc...)
It doesn't have an sdcard slot, but 32GB is still more than what I had on my Android
To sum it up, the difference between Android phones and Apple phones, is that the first ones work (can't deny that, good enough for lots of people probably), and the second ones work *well*
If I dare say it, you can even actually enjoy using this thing. It may not be much, some would call all those things "details" or polish, but it all adds up and makes a really big difference for the user in the end.
My guess in that regard would be that Apple has a whole array of obsessive compulsive quality checkers behind each dev's shoulder, but I could guess wrong.
Re:Apple users... by juasko · 2011-02-09 11:36 · Score: 1

Make a real comparison once, and get over it.
Apple's are pricy but they are not overpriced. Ok they are when it comes to peripherals like memory etc. But to actually compare the real components and the prices of the equivalents out on the market. Their hardware is not much pricy at all, it's sometimes even cheaper than the competition.
But people who compare a iMac to a PC makes the mistake that they compare it to a PC with yeah, same or faster CPU/Memory/Hard-disk/GFXCard. But always forget to compare the rest. Take the 27" iMac, it's really cheap in any configuration, where do you find that kind of a screen and a equvalent computer for that price. Things might have changed but last time i checked equivalent monitors costed as much as the iMac. And this is what mac vs pc price debaters fail to recognize .
Yeah you get a faster PC for the same money, you get a better graphic card. But you don't get a better package! And that is what Apple buyers buy into. They buy the whole package. Not just a few components here and there.
Compare it to people that fix their cars themselves. They do maintain their cars for much cheaper, but it requires time and effort. Others don't know or bother with doing it goes to the service station to get it fixed. But believe me some that bring their car to the service station do know what and how to fix it, but they valuate their time more than to do it them selves and are ready to pay for that freedom.
People that get apple stuff they buy a solution or an eco system, not a gadget or a toy.
Re:Apple users... by juasko · 2011-02-09 11:41 · Score: 2

Oh at slashdot there are many trolls that are moderators. If you give a balanced and neutral comment, you most probably will be down modded. If you actually troll there is a greater change that you get modded as funny instead of a troll. But that depends on which side you troll. If you happen to troll for the most popular opinion, your mods will race in points. While if you happen to be balanced and not taking part for any brand etc, you'll be modded troll.
So if you want good scores pick your brand by popularity here and start trolling.
Re:Apple users... by jo_ham · 2011-02-09 11:58 · Score: 3, Informative

When you hit the green button, the window doesn't follow the Microsoft Windows paradigm. Maximised windows have never been a part of OS X (or OS 9) - that's just people expecting them to do exactly what Windows does, but why should it?
You can set two sizes with the green button, and it will toggle between them. "Apple" doesn't decide how big you want that window - the user does. It will remember the size you chose.
OS X Lion is introducing full screen apps for the first time on OS X, where the entire UI changes (ie, Dock goes away, top menu bar goes away) so it the app that is full screen has full focus. I expect then the green button will do that (perhaps as a toggle - small, large, fullscreen).
I will say that OS X is better than Windows, hands down. That doesn't mean it can't also have flaws (hello, Finder, hello dotfile littering on non-Mac filesystems, hello eternal loop of drive-spin-up-spin-down if you insert an unreadable DVD, among other things). It's still way better than Windows though (although from what I have seen of Win 7, it is looking good - where was that when Vista was being pried out of Ballmer's ass with a chair leg?).
Re:Apple users... by RogerWilco · 2011-02-09 12:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's not just branding, Apple in general makes stuff of very high quality and with a lot of effort in usability design. I've used many computers, laptops, mp3 players and mobile phones over the years. I bought and iPod in 2005, a Macbook Pro in 2007 and an iPhone in 2009. Before that my exposure to Apple had been limited to a couple of times at an aunt who owned one for DTP work. I have used nearly all flavours of Windows and Linux, over 50 different mobile phones (job related), over a dozen PDAs (Palm, WinCE PocketPC, WinMob). Only some stuff from IBM (now Lenovo) comes close in build quality.
I'm not saying it never breaks or doesn't have design flaws sometimes, but in general it's a joy to use Apple products. The interfaces are very intuitive, consistent and a real effort has been made to minimize the effort you have to do to get to your goal. Sometimes at the expense of choice and features. The best example is still that when the iMac came out, it had just USB and Firewire, no Serial or Parallel ports, PS/2 or floppy drive. At the time they were laughed at, peripherals would never use USB and the floppy was essential. I think time proved that they were right.
Since I started buying Apple, my "gadget hunger" has greatly diminished. The only thing I am considering is an iPad and I since bought a NAS for backup purposes. None of the other things I used to look at hold any interest to me any more, it just doesn't compete. The Apple stuff might be a bit on the expensive side, but because it has high end specs when new, they last very long, especially because Apple keeps providing software updates. My 4 year old Macbook is still fine, it's only got updated to OSX 10.6 from 10.4 for 29 euros. All the updates to my iPhone 3GS have been free. Between those two devices there isn't a single thing that I can't do, but want to do.
I know that I'm sounding a bit like a fanboy, and maybe I am, but that's especially because I have used so many other devices from other manufacturers and none have given me as few reasons to want to throw it out the window as the Apple products I have.

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RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
Re:Apple users... by drb226 · 2011-02-09 13:50 · Score: 1

Parent modded funny? Did I miss the joke or something? o_O I would've gone with insightful...a funny insight perhaps, but insightful...
Re:Apple users... by MightyYar · 2011-02-09 13:54 · Score: 1

Yeah, but wouldn't I loose all of my Slashdot karma if I came up with the perfect car analogy? :)

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Apple users... by dudpixel · 2011-02-09 14:52 · Score: 1

ah a typical iFan. Of course apple products do everything you care about. They are the ones who dictated to you what you should care about in the first place.
Apple doesn't design devices based on what they think their users want. They actually design products THEY want users to have, and then convince the users that they need them. This is why Apple fans totally love the products, and dont care for anything the products dont do well.
Its a constant aligning of the customer's interests with the interests of the company, and most of them are blind to it.
I'm talking stereotypically, so it doesn't apply to all apple customers, but the iFans? well they tick all the boxes. As soon as someone starts talking all pro-Apple, you instantly know a LOT about them. The stereotype never lies in this instance.

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This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
Re:Apple users... by mkiwi · 2011-02-09 15:14 · Score: 2

Funny mods don't give you karma, which is possibly what the moderator wanted to do.
There was a quote along the lines of, "You get karma for being smart, not for being a smart-ass," (cmdrtaco) in some of the /. literature. Modding something all funny with a couple of trolls squeezed in there is a great way to lower someone's karma, because you can have a +5 funny comment with, say, 10 troll moderations.
Troll Mod = lose karma, funny mod = no change
That's why meta moderation is rather important.
Re:Apple users... by syousef · 2011-02-09 16:25 · Score: 1

It's not just branding, Apple in general makes stuff of very high quality and with a lot of effort in usability design.
I have used 3 recent Apple products - 2 iPods (personal, mine and my wife's) and an eMac (work - very light use - occassional web browser compatibility testing). They have been JUNK. The iPod had a faulty click wheel from day 1 and return policies here in Australia (subsequently changed after consumer watchdog pressure) meant if I sent it in I could be without it for months. My wife's iPod has been okay but a "Photo" iPod shouldn't have such a delicate scratchable screen. The emac died within 2-3 weeks of purchase.

I know that I'm sounding a bit like a fanboy,
YES!

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Re:Apple users... by syousef · 2011-02-09 16:30 · Score: 1

I would argue the point about iOS devices being more about form than function. With the explosion of apps, iOS devices are just as functional, if not more functional than Blackberry
Explosions immediately make me think of fart apps. 40 fart apps do not a functional platform make.How many distinct apps are useful and serve a purpose? If you eliminate games and redundant rubbish (a media player that plays sound files is far more useful than a fart app) you end up wonderign what the fuss is about. The most useful apps tend to have alternatives on other platforms.

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Re:Apple users... by syousef · 2011-02-09 16:35 · Score: 1

I never bought Apple stuff for trendiness, I've always bought apple stuff for functionality. Functionality I've seldom seen from any other tech company
I have news for you. If you're just viewing media, browsing the web and editing the odd word processor document or spreadsheet you can do that equally well on Windows, Mac or Linux. If you have more specific needs they're probably to do with interoperability.
What can you do with a Mac that I can't on Win7 or WinXP or Linux exactly?
I use windows but it's more to do with the software than the OS. I can run MS Flight Sim 2004 and X, Chessmaster etc., Realflight R/C flight simulator. I can also use stuff available on other systems like sky/star simulation and mapping, data analysis and emulators. No other system gives me as wide a variety of software. If one did I'd jump on it.

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Re:Apple users... by syousef · 2011-02-09 16:41 · Score: 1

That's why meta moderation is rather important.
Actually that's why moderation is broken

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 16:58 · Score: 0

"The best example is still that when the iMac came out, it had just USB and Firewire, no Serial or Parallel ports, PS/2 or floppy drive. At the time they were laughed at, peripherals would never use USB and the floppy was essential. I think time proved that they were right."
They were laughed at for including firewire, not USB.
Roll on a few years... and what's happened to firewire? Abandoned by Apple.
Nothing like those revisionist history glasses you're wearing.
"Between those two devices there isn't a single thing that I can't do, but want to do."
That's good for you if it offers the stuff you want to do. It seriously doesn't for me. I support an office that is a mix of lin/win/osx. I frequently run into "things I want to do but can't" with the mac gear (not to mention also with the win gear). For me, OSX is a 'streamlined' experience, but not an 'anything /I/ want to do' experience.
I use a 6-year-old thinkpad tablet (omg! they did exist before the ipad! amazing but true!) as my primary linux laptop. Sure, it's not got the grunt for heavy stuff (also have a desktop) but the only real disadvantage is that the battery life is down to ~90-120 minutes, and I'm too lazy to source a new battery. OS upgrades are free! (why cost is an issue here I don't know).
Apple is good for doing stuff that you want to do if it's stuff that Apple feel like letting you do. Thankfully there are options for those of us that want to do other things, but damn it's annoying to have smug Apple fanbois implying that because it's good enough for /their/ needs, you're some kind of backwoods redneck for wanting to do something unsanctioned by Apple.
Re:Apple users... by bigstrat2003 · 2011-02-09 17:14 · Score: 1

Personally, I find Mac OS to be hands down worse than Windows (and, presumably, Linux, but I haven't used it). The way they handle their menu bars is a giant fucking UI fail, and I hate using Mac OS because of it.

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"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Re:Apple users... by JoeytheSquid · 2011-02-09 17:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

Let me guess, disgruntled Android user?

More seriously though, Fanboyism is a fickle thing. I currently use iOS, Android and webOS. While I consider each platform to have its inherent strengths and weaknesses, I'm very aware that liking Apple in tech circles carries a certain amount of baggage. Apparently the platform can't be good and anyone who owns an Apple product is merely a sheep buying into marketing propaganda in their quest to be cool (which brings up a question, if I place an Apple sticker on my Kia Rio, do they cancel one another out? Or do they double up into a giant ball of lameness?).

The funny thing is it goes beyond liking Apple. Criticizing Android can make you an iFan too. I offered up some fairly constructive criticism of my Archos tablet in a public forum and was essentially told to go home and spoon my iPad. However I don't own an iPad and spooning my Archos just proved to be uncomfortable for the both of us.

Thankfully I've come to realize it's just an Android thing. When webOS users recently found out that we might be getting screwed out of the 2.0 updates for our legacy gear, just about everyone in the community was universally ticked. However when the same thing happens to a Android phone not getting an update to froyo, the hive mind heckles the dissenters. Apparently phones not getting updates is a good thing on Android because you're free to root it, void your warranty and install dodgy firmware made by some kid in his spare time.

Anyway, I don't pretend to understand the hows or whys, and I've already written a book here, but there's just something about Apple and Android that doesn't mix. And it's a sad that there's not more mutual respect between the two camps because the mere existence of each platform ultimately benefits the other.
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 18:13 · Score: 0

Please put down the koolaid...
Start with, Apple having the best build quality? This was shown to be wrong with the study done by Squaretrade, and yet the fanboys keep wishing to ignore that it happened. Apple isn`t the best, in fact they round around the middle in quality but price it as if it was the highest quality to give you the impression your buying high quality.
A general joy to use Apple products? Wish I could get you to explain that to the people who use them here. I get things ranging from `how do I take my music back off my iPod/iPhone`, `I turned off my Mac during an update and now nothing turns on, can`t even boot from the cd to restrore it`, `Why doesn`t my iPhone do x basic function found in most other smartphones`, `I changed my Home folders name on my Mac, where did all my files go?` (seems they need to follow either a 10 step to 43 step list to do that http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1428) to the basics of how to fix their Mac (nearest Mac Store is 3 hours away, not the most useful to tell them to take it back). These are basic things that people want in their products. You forget, your not a basic user and you learned how to do these so to you, sure they seem a joy to use because you know what to expect them to do. Average Joe doesn`t and complains about it but keeps using it because they already spent X, they aren`t going to turn around and spend even more to get something different. They will just put up with the hassles and problems that their Apple products give them.
And Apple stuff being high end specs when new? Compared to what? Some companies low end stuff sure, but no where near what other companies offer in around the same price points, and sometimes not even near the other companies quality. When the new MBP's come out compare them to other higher quality companies products and see who is higher end specs and the prices each one offers. You won't find them to match because Apple won't put the high end specs in their products due to price. Apple sits on a 15-20% profit margin, putting in high end spec parts would make their MBPs go from $2k to easily over $3k with is beyond what even they could try to offer a product.
In the end, if you really feel that after this that I'm wrong and Apple products are better, then its your personal choice, but never lie to yourself and claim that an Apple product is something it isn't. It isn't perfect, it isn't always a joy, it isn't always a great 'usability design' that other people always just 'get and enjoy'. If you truly believe that it is that way, please go to your near Apple store and start hanging around the Apple "Genius Bar", it will be quite the eye opener.
Re:Apple users... by robco74 · 2011-02-09 19:04 · Score: 1

Considering the iPhone has the same functionality as the iPod Touch - which is a pretty good media player - than I'd say one of your criteria is met. Sure, not every app on the App Store is a gem, I never claimed that. I doubt every available app on Blackberry App World is either. But Apple has sold a lot of iPhones. that has, in turn, attracted a lot of developers to the platform. If you'd actually looked at what's available, there are quite a few good, distinct apps out there. It isn't all rubbish.
But it's par for the course. Any time something becomes popular, especially with ordinary folks, then it must be bad. If a book sells well, it must have little literary value. Since people like the iPhone and it sells well, it must be a platform full of mundane apps that people who want to get things done should steer clear of. I mean, it couldn't possibly be because Apple took a lot of care and spent a lot of time and effort making a good product and ecosystem. No, of course not. We must all be sheep who drink the Kool-Aid and mindlessly do whatever Jobs tells us.
Re:Apple users... by Waccoon · 2011-02-09 19:49 · Score: 1

Only some stuff from IBM (now Lenovo) comes close in build quality.
Are you considering only 2-3 brands while contrasting quality with Apple?
Nobody can tell me that with hundreds if not thousands of companies out there, not even one of them comes close to Apple. It's like when someone has a problem with their bargain-basement $500 HP, and the first thing that happens is that an Apple guy swoops in and recommends getting a Macbook that starts at $1,000. Gee, I don't suppose there's a few hundred other PC brands from which to choose.
Statistically speaking alone, I'd say it is all about branding, which is all that much more disappointing given how few models and options Apple offers, which means that they can't possibly satisfy a large enough range of customer requirements to be the "best." For some people, a Porsche represents the untimate in quality. For others, a Honda.
PS - I have 14 years of experience using Macs. My reason for disliking them goes well beyond the "shiny" rhetoric.
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 21:05 · Score: 0

I have the same experience. I love Linux computers because of their flexibility and used Windows at work, but I bought an imac for App development and windows and linux can't compete. It used to be normal to install a new Ubuntu and have my windows going transparent(because an nvidia bug), my touchpad, or my network cart to stop working(when it worked on my last version). On windows I installed a service pack and all my videos were shown extremely dark. You could fix all that "just" expending hundred of man hours looking for help forums on Internet, I don't have the time nor the patience anymore.
I can't install commercial programs on Linux as people like Ubuntu founder Mark Shutherworth thinks "software as a product" is dead (never mind he made a fortune with software as a service).
I bought a samsumg player and the software was hideous, a zippy voice recorder to record lectures and just does not work to record voice at a distance, they are collecting dust as they have been replaced by and ipod that just works.
Slashdot geeks love to call Apple users stupid because they expend more on hardware, but my experience is that buying the same quality hardware outside Apple (e.g sony voice recorder)is as expensive or more. My time is worth more than the price difference, I'm working while you are playing with the command line.
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 22:33 · Score: 0

> The interfaces are very intuitive
I think you have misunderstood the meaning of "intuitive".
Hand an iPod to someone who has never seen one used. The scrolling wheel will baffle them, once they even realise that it is part of the UI.
Hand an iPhone to someone who has never seen one used and ask them to scroll down. They will be baffled.
"Intuitive" does not mean "quick to learn through imitation". It means "determinable from first principles"
Re:Apple users... by multipartmixed · 2011-02-10 01:37 · Score: 1

Wait, you have used 3 recent apple products, one of which was an eMac, which was discontinued 5 years ago?

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Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-10 02:10 · Score: 0

"It's not just branding, Apple in general makes stuff of very high quality and with a lot of effort in usability design."
I see this sort of thing repeated often, but if Apple products are of such high quality then why was there a major problem with iPod nano's screens scratching? Why were some MacBooks prone to discolouration of the plastic as the device got hot? Why is the iPhone 3GS notorious for the case cracking due to battery expansion when warm through heavy use? Why is the iPhone 4 fundamentally flawed in it's antenna design? Why were Apple's magsafe power adapters a major fire hazard for some time? Why have Apple historically scored so low in terms of recycling ability due to the use of materials that are hazardous to dispose of simply chosen because they were such cheap lower quality materials? Why were there issues with some screens on the latest iPhones having blobs because Apple hadn't even let the glue set properly in the manufacturing process before trying to ship them out?
You're precisely the type of fashion victim being discussed, you've fallen hook line and sinker for the idea that your Apple product is high quality, that it rates highly for usability. There's no evidence that this is the case, Apple's products are through and through cheaply made and low quality. What Apple products have is a perceived quality, and that's a classic tool used by fashion companies across all industries- your Armani t-shirts aren't any better than your average cheap sweatshop ones, ironically are often even made in the same sweatshops from the same materials, yet people believe the brand stands for quality.
"I'm not saying it never breaks or doesn't have design flaws sometimes, but in general it's a joy to use Apple products. The interfaces are very intuitive, consistent and a real effort has been made to minimize the effort you have to do to get to your goal. Sometimes at the expense of choice and features."
This is another common excuse from Apple fans- they'll say "We don't need 3G", "We don't need GPS", "We don't need copy and paste", "We don't need MMS". In the end they get all these things, because er, they did need them, and there was demand for them.
"Since I started buying Apple, my "gadget hunger" has greatly diminished."
Mine simply diminished in general as I grew up. I'd hate to incorrectly link it to the manufacturer of my PC and Phone at the time.
"Apple stuff might be a bit on the expensive side, but because it has high end specs when new, they last very long, especially because Apple keeps providing software updates."
This makes no sense, you only get 2 years of updates with the iPhone, yet because the specs are high it lasts a long time? Which is it? Apple has planned obsolence built in from the outset- they make hard to replace your batteries, and they limit software upgrades on some devices. Long time is not something that goes well with Apple's product lifecycle.
"All the updates to my iPhone 3GS have been free. Between those two devices there isn't a single thing that I can't do, but want to do."
Which is another fine excuse, because each time someone tells you something you can't do, you simply say you don't want to do it. Really good platforms give you the choice regardless of whether you claim you want to do it or not.
"I know that I'm sounding a bit like a fanboy, and maybe I am,"
Some people are just pre-disposed to it. Just like the many clothing fashion victims on our planet that can't help go out and buy the latest range of clothes when there's nothing even wrong with last season's which they've worn maybe once or twice.
Re:Apple users... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-10 02:15 · Score: 0

Get back to your Uncle Steve's bedroom, fanboy, he wants you to blow him off again (and pay for the privilege).
Re:Apple users... by juasko · 2011-02-10 04:45 · Score: 1

True, but I never get proper file assosiations in Windows, or linux. OSX10.6 is not much better thoug, that got pretty much screwed up in 10.6.
With windows I don't get seamless integration. I'm not able to swiftly create workflows. In linux I could create shell scripts, but they are far from friendly, just like .bat files in DOS was. Are .bat files still supproted by windows?
All that MacOS has done for ages, while totally absent on other platforms, unless you happen to be a hardcore hacker and programmer. What about seamless backup or "ghosting" options, yeah you need a software for that too. Then incompatibilites with dll files, and that even with MS Office. Perfectly well working Access applications work in Office 2003. With 2007 or later "no can do", and MS is not even offering an alternative. All this and broken registry.
But yeah windows can display a picture, if i have correct applications installed. You can browse the web if you have correct browser installed. It's even able to handle PDF if i have everything installed properly. Oh and, it's able to play an MPEG-x media with the correct software installed. Yeah you can do all that, but's its a pain in the *ss.
If you really need windows, it's available for the mac. I don't need it and a certanily don't want it, I happily pay a premium to just not have to deal with windows. There is one software that is windows only that I use, but that one i run trough wine. It's a hazzle yes but so is windows.
To me it functions when it seamless and out of my way. It's not functional if I can make it to work. All that part of "make to work" is a show stopper to me. It's not that I'm not capable of it, I simply want to spend my time with other things. So yeah, I bought Apple for functionality. To get things done. To me it doesn't matter if the mac is faster or slower or overpriced vs similar hardware with windows. It's simply not overpriced if I can afford it.
Re:Apple users... by syousef · 2011-02-10 07:19 · Score: 1

Wait, you have used 3 recent apple products, one of which was an eMac, which was discontinued 5 years ago?
That's still relatively recent.
My first Apple product was an Apple IIe. Shortly after buying that the distribution chain was changed and department stores no longer sold Apple software. I was stuck with a computer I couldn't get software for. The Mac was out at the time but the Apple salesmen were doing their best to push the II series out the door and we got screwed there to.
I hate Apple. I have reason to. Their products haven't just worked for me. They have been overpriced and problematic.

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Re:Apple users... by syousef · 2011-02-10 07:23 · Score: 1

I wasn't the one claiming the iOS platform was superior due to the number of apps. My point is another platform - Android, Blackberry, even Symbian - can have far less apps but still be just as useful especially since many Apps on the iOS platform are the result of developers jumping on the bandwagon and pushing out worthless rubbish.

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Re:Apple users... by dudpixel · 2011-02-10 15:10 · Score: 1

I thought I was careful not to label ALL apple users as what I called "iFans". its only the vocal ones who belittle everyone that get to me.
I'm actually a fairly content android user, not disgruntled by any means. I can see the merits of both (all?) platforms - my wife owns an iphone, which I recommended for her. I'm a software developer - so android makes more sense to me - I can develop apps for my phone easily and I dont need to go through an approval process before I can use it. Its a personal thing, so I dont expect everyone to do the same.
However this is all irrelevant. The point here is the number of iphone 4 users who take the view that if it didn't happen to them, then the problem doesn't exist and therefore its just bloggers making noise. Even with substantial evidence right in front of their eyes - the bloggers didn't just complain - they proved it in so many different tests that it was undeniable (at least I thought so).
Granted - it wasn't as big a deal as some of them made out, but to claim it didn't exist at all, that is just blind fanboism if you ask me.

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This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
Re:Apple users... by ukyoCE · 2011-02-11 04:42 · Score: 1

When Apple made (only) crappy products, you had a point. But welcome to the year 2011, you can retire 1995's memes. Apple makes some great but expensive products. They are being copied by other manufacturers left and right because of their design, not because of their marketing.
Re:Apple users... by PipsqueakOnAP133 · 2011-02-13 10:17 · Score: 1

The problem is on all sides.
I got a Nexus S days after it came out. And I have some battery problems with it. When I mention these problems I either get one of these responses:
1) Works for me, you must be doing something wrong.
2) Must be the firmware. Go install another firmware, it's an open phone. (I'm using stock, btw)
3) Try a task killer. (been there, done that, ATKFree helped marginally)
4) Try xyz battery log thing, and find out which app's using some idle lock thing, and install this random package that's repackaged from android source or something to get extra utilities or other. (Really? I am a developer. And usually I do like to tinker. But doesn't this sound a bit far to go to get the stock android distro working acceptably?)
In the end, the easy solution for me is to disable data access until I need it otherwise my battery life is 9 hours idle. Not talking or browsing, but sitting on a desk idle. With wifi off. And all I know is that it's a Google service keeping the radios awake with data access.
I just got an iPhone 4 on Verizon the past week to try out. Yeah, it drops a bar if I hold it funny. I expected that to happen even before a single blogger posted about it. Doesn't matter to me because the call still goes through.
In the end, this whole mobile war thing just gets people riled up because so many people identify with the brand/camps they're in. I have a friend who's betting on the Xoom; not because he knows anything about how well it might work, but only because he owns a Droid. Personally, I feel that's the wrong reason. Heck, I'd be interested in checking out the new webOS tablet even though my workplace's vested interest is in the iOS platform. (though, yes, I'm a bit of a mobile device collector :P)
Re:Apple users... by dudpixel · 2011-02-13 15:09 · Score: 1

Its difficult to get good advice for android - because the rumours get out there too quick and its very much like the PC world - too much misinformation getting around.
Firstly, I'm interested to know what you mean by "battery problems".
I have a galaxy S, so its pretty similar hardware to the Nexus S, and I'd buy a nexus S if I was looking for a new phone right now (i'm not).
Depending on how heavily you use your phone, you should expect between 1.5 and 3 days of battery life.
The best advice I can give you about android is to disable any task killers. Well, if you must have one, I like System Panel (free)...but I use it only to terminate an app that I suspect has not closed correctly or is chewing up resources such as wifi etc.
The reason for not using task killers is best explained by google themselves: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html
In essence, it messes with the way android was designed to work, and in actual fact, only the current "app" gets cpu time anyway, besides active services that run in the background. Its actually much the same as iOS4 for multitasking...but just without limitations on which apps can have services running in the background and what those services are allowed to do.
If you need more than 2-3 days of use on a single charge, then the nexus s might not be for you. I'm not sure if the iPhone4 fares any better though...
It all depends what your phone is doing.
Personally, as long as my phone lasts the day I'm fine with it....but if it matters to you, then do all the obvious stuff:
* turn off wifi, bluetooth, nfc? when not in use
* dont use live wallpapers
* only use reputable apps
* never use antivirus - these are bogus until we hear of an actual virus for android.
* set your screen to turn off after a minute - or even 30s (the screen is by far the heaviest user of battery)
Other than that, if your phone doesn't last a day, then you may have a faulty battery.

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This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
Re:Apple users... by PipsqueakOnAP133 · 2011-02-13 22:05 · Score: 1

In short, my battery life problems are summed up as:
Using a stock Nexus S firmware, wifi and bt off, signed into Google services, sitting on my desk with the screen off, I lose 85% of my battery in 8 hours. No voice calls are made. The screen's off for this period of time.
If I turn off all radios, my standby time rises from 9 hours to 6 days (where those 6 days includes me using it as a mp3 player in my car both directions of my commute, so it's actually better than 6 days) So the hardware's fine with this regard. Something's severely messed up in software.
I've signed out of Google Latitude already.
The task killer helped maybe give me one more hour standby with cell radio on.
All I'm left with off the top of my head is Gmail, Google Voice, the system's built in software updater. Perhaps there's something else, but if so, it was setup automatically by Google to a Google service.
I've read the android multitasking article in the past; it sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, this basically leaves a Google service as the blame for the poor battery life showing.
Re:Apple users... by dudpixel · 2011-02-14 15:54 · Score: 1

The problem with task killers is that if you kill a task that android needs, it will just restart it, which actually uses MORE battery than before. In the case of services, android already has the ability to stop services, and you should use that mechanism rather than just killing off processes.
I'm assuming you have "background data" and sync enabled? That's fine, it is usually ok, but it will sync your gmail and possibly facebook and other things, which all use your 3G data. Under normal use it hardly makes a difference, but it depends on what your phone is actually syncing. Some weather apps are pretty heavy on this as well.
3G is one of the heaviest users of battery (ie. when on a call or using data). Its probably somewhere in the order of: screen, then 3G, then wifi, etc. etc...
Does your phone feel warm? That's usually a good indication that it is using 3G a lot. My Galaxy S once had an issue like that, where it was almost flat by the end of the day. It turned out to be a rogue service using the data connection if I remember correctly.
There is still a possibility that your phone is somehow faulty.
This would be inconvenient, but have you tried a factory reset? possibly when the phone is fully charged?
Another suggestion is that if you are in an area with poor phone reception, the 3G will use more power to try to maintain a good signal.
I'd suggest there is a fault with your phone deserving of a warranty claim. Just because it works without 3G doesn't mean there is no issue - it just narrows it down a bit. A nexus S should last at least 2 days with light-moderate use. If you have done a factory reset and still do not get 2 days out of it, then get it repaired under warranty.
btw, you need to access the recovery mode in order to do factory reset (assuming it is like the galaxy s).

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This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.

Re:God here we go again.....all phones have the is by RapmasterT · 2011-02-09 10:20 · Score: 1

All phones can suffer from some attenuation if you wrap enough flesh around it, but apple is the only phone designer stupid enough to make a phone intended to be held BY THE ANTENNA. I get a little sick of the disingenuous fanboi defense of Apple by parroting the tu quoque fallacy "everyone does it". The iphone 4 has a VERY real problem when you hold it not in some magical "death grip", but in the way a normal person holds a normal cell phone.

If you ask me, the MOST likely reason that the Verizon iphone is having less of an issue is because it's Verizon and not AT&T. Their network is already more reliable.

Blast it Spock! by RevWaldo · 2011-02-09 10:21 · Score: 3, Funny

- Blast it Spock, this phone keeps cutting out! It's the fool antenna. The reception dies out when I grip it like this.
- Dr. McCoy, the problem you are describing has never been scientifically replicated, despite numerous attempts to do so. The so-called "death grip" problem with the iPhone is merely a rumor, bordering on superstition, based on conjecture from overzealous bloggers, referencing anecdotal evidence, who know nothing at all about antenna design, much less the basic principles of electromagnetism.
- Well your reliance on logic and the scientific method doesn't help explain why my calls keep getting dropped.
- I own an iPhone myself and have never experienced any such problems.
- Huh. Must be those pointy ears of yours, give you better reception.
- (mutters) Case. In. Point.

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Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!

Re:Blast it Spock! by RudeIota · 2011-02-09 12:35 · Score: 1

Brilliant. It fits so perfectly into this discussion. If only I had mod points...

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Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
Re:Blast it Spock! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 21:03 · Score: 0

What about the consumer reports test?
Re:Blast it Spock! by Rennt · 2011-02-09 22:42 · Score: 1

Dr. McCoy, the problem you are describing has been measured in controlled lab conditions. Engineers confirmed that bridging the two antennas with a single finger results in a signal drop of around 20 decibels.
Fixed that for you

Re:God here we go again.....all phones have the is by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2011-02-09 10:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

The iphone 4 has a VERY real problem when you hold it not in some magical "death grip"....

... according to everybody but the owners of the phone.

I get a little sick of the disingenuous fanboi defense...

Look up the word 'sensationalism'

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

Re:low standards by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:33 · Score: 0

Fixed that for you

I have consistently found that users of Apple products have very different standards (and are very easily impressed...

Re:Correct. See Link by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:40 · Score: 0

Hehe...hahaha..

Yeah, why bother with science. No reason to take stuff like the overall reception in the area and sweat/salinity of the users hands into account.

Oh no, let the fanboys test the phone by holding their favourite gadget, jolt down the raving hype, scatter it with ads and call it a "news article" instead.

Galileo:0, Steve: 1.

Re:low standards by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:41 · Score: 0

My, aren't I the super l337 technophile! Aren't you aware that everything YOU like is craaaaap? Here, let ME tell you what YOU should buy instead... because you're simply NOT capable of deciding what really works best for YOU!

Put a sock in it already. Just be happy with what works for you and let other people make their own choices. It's not like it has any effect on you in any way.

Re:low standards by The+End+Of+Days · 2011-02-09 10:42 · Score: 0

I have found that Apple haters require the belief that Apple users are stupid, although I'm not going to guess why. I'll leave the pop psychology to you, since you are clearly a genius of the first order.

To be clear... by EmotionToilet · 2011-02-09 10:43 · Score: 2

I work at a place that sells a lot of iPhones and when the antenna thing happened we didn't even see one iPhone get returned. Not one, for any reason. So I'm sure from Apple's perspective there's no reason to change something that sells well with zero returns.

Free Calls? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 10:43 · Score: 0

In Australia, if the call drops then the call is free... I don't know about you, but I'd consider the ability to drop calls at whim a "feature".

This just in... by joeyblades · 2011-02-09 10:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

My Samsung Mythic is also 'haunted' by a death grip...

My Blackberry Pearl (before that) - 'haunted' by a death grip...

Ironically... daughter's iPhone 4 - no death grip...

Somewhere, though already long since dead, a horse is continuously beaten... but the rest of the world moves on...

Re:This just in... by EricX2 · 2011-02-09 16:02 · Score: 1

The problem isn't that the phone has a death grip, it's having a death grip that is easy to do. I'm sure my HTC phone has a death grip, but I've never found it.
Re:This just in... by joeyblades · 2011-02-09 17:37 · Score: 1

Like I said, we've not been able to do it on my daughter's iPhone. We get crappy reception at my house and there are rooms where calls will get dropped in a heartbeat... on my Samsung. Still, with the iPhone, we get crystal clear reception... even when we cup the phone with the so-called death grip and bridge the antennas.
Furthermore, I have a lot of friends who have iPhone 4s. None of them have been able to duplicate the death grip phenomenon except in extreme environments where no other phone brands are getting any signal at all. So, for something that's so "easy to do"...
Believe me, I'm no fan of the iPhone. I tried to talk my daughter out of it. I tried to convince her that the antenna issue might be a problem... however, the damn thing is solid - more solid than any other phone in the family. I still wouldn't have one, but I'm convinced that the antenna issue is overblown.
Re:This just in... by mjwx · 2011-02-09 17:39 · Score: 2

My Motorola Milestone - no death grip.

My mates Samsung Galaxy S - no death grip.

My sisters Iphone 4 - drops calls all the time and that is very uncommon for phones in Australia. Just hold it and watch the bars drop away, even after the SW update that was meant to hide it.

My Motorola milestone has OK reception at my work and Bad reception at my house (but still works, it's about -85 to -95 dBm). An Iphone 4 has no reception at either place using Australia's supposedly "superior" Telstra network.

My anecdotal evidence rips your anecdotal evidence to shreds.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Re:This just in... by joeyblades · 2011-02-09 18:04 · Score: 1

My anecdotal evidence rips your anecdotal evidence to shreds.
Thanks for that. You made me smile...
Re:This just in... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-10 05:10 · Score: 0

Nokia N8 is also "haunted" by a death grip... drop 1-3 bars depending area where you are (from full bars to one or two usually).
What would be situation if N8 case endings would be aluminium blocking signal by default as well and not plastic?

Re:low standards by FuckingNickName · 2011-02-09 10:44 · Score: 0

let other people make their own choices. It's not like it has any effect on you in any way.

This is absurd nonsense. Capitalism and democracy are popularity contests.

buyphone by MrKaos · 2011-02-09 10:47 · Score: 0

In the Article;

Analysts also argue that Apple sold millions of AT&T iPhone 4's last year and despite the media-furor, consumers did not line up at Apple Stores demanding refunds.

thats because they bought a flashy piece of technology, not an antenna. If the reception sucks on the iphone then that is viewed as the carrier's fault. 99% of people wouldn't have a clue about antenna design, If you walked up to them grabbed them and said "it's the phone" they wouldn't understand and say "nah, carrier X sucks".

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My ism, it's full of beliefs.

Re:buyphone by kwerle · 2011-02-09 10:52 · Score: 1

Or it could be because AT&T *does* suck.
Or it could be because it was mostly a media-furor and not anything substantive.
Or it could be because lots of people put their iphone in a case and that pretty much resolved the non-problem.
Choose up to 5.
Re:buyphone by rrossman2 · 2011-02-09 11:16 · Score: 1

To an extent the carrier does carry some blame too (no pun intended). The phones get tested by the carrier as well before they are released, and the carrier does their little tweaks and lock downs. Not saying there's any death grip truth to the VZW version, but having known the AT&T version did have an issue, VZW should have or I'm sure did test the phones for any such issues before releasing them.
Re:buyphone by MrKaos · 2011-02-09 12:45 · Score: 0

Or it could be because AT&T *does* suck.
Or it could be because it was mostly a media-furor and not anything substantive.
Or it could be because lots of people put their iphone in a case and that pretty much resolved the non-problem.
Choose up to 5.
I agree with what you said but the point I'm making is the extent of consumer awareness is usually the word *shiney*

--
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Re:buyphone by MrKaos · 2011-02-09 12:47 · Score: 0

VZW should have or I'm sure did test the phones for any such issues before releasing them.
I'm sure they did and I'm sure a manager signed off on the issues because they needed the sales of buyphones.

--
My ism, it's full of beliefs.

Re:Correct. See Link by icebike · 2011-02-09 10:51 · Score: 1

Chuckle,
Yeah, why bother actually addressing the problem instead of swallowing Apple's nonsense hook line and sinker. Just read the article in the GP post, and you will see the author is clueless. (look how he holds it). He's still defending is prior position which has been proven wrong time and time again.

Compare that to the real problem: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/iphone-its-the-antenna-stupid/

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Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.

Slashdot Sedative by repetty · 2011-02-09 10:54 · Score: 1

I read the headline and thread summary to this story and the next thing I know I wake up with keycap impressions on my forehead and a puddle of drool on my wrist rest.

This story is a powerful sedative! I'm bookmarking this baby!

And that's why it's not in the Verizon phone by SuperKendall · 2011-02-09 11:01 · Score: 1

The iPhone has an external non-insulated antenna which, when you touch it, get's detuned

Wrong, it has a gap as part of the external antenna that when you touch it, detunes the antenna.

For the verizon iphone they moved it; for the demonstration video he's not even touching it.

To repeat, all phones when gripped where the antenna is located will see a signal drop. That's also why every HTC model to come out since the iPhone has reported to have had this "problem".

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley

Re:And that's why it's not in the Verizon phone by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 13:49 · Score: 0

I wonder why my Motorola phone has no problems with it then. I can cover my phone with both hands and still not lose a single bar. Just because one or two other phones have a problem doesn't mean Apple can be excused.
Re:And that's why it's not in the Verizon phone by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 14:00 · Score: 0

try sticking it up your ass.
Re:And that's why it's not in the Verizon phone by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 14:51 · Score: 0

Learn to read. I said I use a Motorola phone, not an Apple phone.
Re:And that's why it's not in the Verizon phone by rtfa-troll · 2011-02-09 19:02 · Score: 1

On most phones there is some insulator between you and the antenna. This means that you simply can't grip "where the antenna is located" without taking the phone apart. You can't "touch" the antenna. You have a plastic case and inside that the antenna.
Let's be absolutely clear about this. It's all a matter of proportion. It's possible to set up a test where the phone is exactly on the limit of it's reception strength and then put a small pebble metres from the phone, but close to the base station and have that reduce the signal strength enough to cause the phone to fail. It is always possible to influence the signal with your body. The difference with the iPhone is the direct coupling which allows a massively greater drop in signal strength than could every be achieved on a different phone.
Yes, it's possible to fake demos where the signal strength happens to be just above some threshold. Yes most of the demos online are unscientific (you can't use "bars" as a measure of signal strength. Yes, the iPhone still has a specific problem that it shouldn't have.

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=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();

They're inside the RDF! by Chas · 2011-02-09 11:09 · Score: 1

Make it feel stylish and suckers will buy any crap you shovel at them!

--

Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!

Re:They're inside the RDF! by 4phun · 2011-02-10 08:27 · Score: 1

Make it feel stylish and suckers will buy any crap you shovel at them!
Is that the secrete design theory of an Android phone?

No It Isn't...Na Na Na Na Na by spiedrazer · 2011-02-09 11:15 · Score: 1

The point of the article is that ALL phones will experience a signal degredation when the antenna is shielded, including the Verizon iPhone4. The death grip on the original iPhone 4 was a specific legitimate design problem where the antenna could be bridged/shorted between multiple antenna segments to drastically reduce the signal. No real death grip or phone cradling required. The Verizon phone does not have this design flaw.

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Keep passing the open windows...

Just learning how wrong you are. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 11:51 · Score: 0

I switched from Linux to OS X last year because I got busy enough in life that I wanted off-the-shelf solutions. I've been much more impressed by OS X than I thought I would have, but I didn't buy any Apple hardware, just all of the software. I've been running it on a custom-built desktop box and on an EeePC and have been telling people that the OS is light years ahead of Linux or Windows in terms of usability and the degree to which I'm productive within it... but I've also been telling people that in no way was the hardware cost justified and Apple could do much better if they would just open up, since I and most others prefer using commodity hardware, which is cheaper, just as good, and a lot more flexible.

Now, just this week, by a quirk of fate I was given a MacBook Pro for work reasons. At first, there was some seriously galling stuff. First and foremost, I couldn't figure out how to click the damned touchpad. Then, the chicklet-style keyboard seemed really out of date and uncomfortable to me. Finally, it seemed really heavy.

At the same time, the build *quality* was light years ahead of anything I'd ever used for a long period of time before. This thing is built like a tank, it absolutely puts my past Thinkpads and Satellite Pros to shame for build quality.

But now, two days in, I'm being convinced by the Apple way. The "whole touchpad is a button" concept turns out to work really damned well, in particular in combination with the absolutely fabulous and remarkably well-calibrated/sized multi-touch and gesturing tools. Yes, there's a learning curve, but in two days this has become the first touchpad I was ever actually willing to use without just plugging in a USB trackball... in fact, I'm starting to prefer it. And it ignores my palms, unlike the EeePC running OS X, which like most Wintel machines and their touchpads, is a total pain in the ass with any little palm swipe or thumb touch moving you out of your window. I didn't need to set it up or download a special program for multitouch or palm-ignoring, it just was. The keyboard caused me a lot of grief for the first couple of hours, but then I got used to it and it turns out that the key travel distance and resistance are very low for this keyboard, meaning that once I got a feel for it, my typing speed and accuracy went up considerably, and here, too, in two days I find I'm now mildly annoyed by the PC keyboards that I preferred only a moment ago.

Heavy it still is, but I'll take it, because the battery life runs circles around the netbook and around my wife's netbook as well, and this for a full-sized Core 2 Duo laptop with a gorgeous display. It's a trade-off, but I like it—thinking back I realize that I've said on several occasions in the past that I'd accept 2-4 extra pounds on my Thinkpad if they could extend the battery life to cover an entire workday. Here is exactly that.

In short, I've become much less dubious about the "Apple premium" on the hardware side of things. My two days with a MacBook Pro are seriously making me feel like I've been seriously closed-minded in the past. And OS X on a MacBook Pro is an entirely different animal than it is on a hackintosh. For example, I always found the grey to be an eyesore, the worst part of OS X—but the color balance and brightness curve on the MacBook is noticeably warmer and more subtle, making it really easy on the eyes as opposed to tough on them when MacBook is side-by-side with the hackintosh displays. I always found the "silver glass" dock to be flashy and distracting and on the hackintosh machines I changed it to a dark black. On the Mac display it's much more subdued and matches the aluminum color of the body exactly, now looking like an extension of the surface on which you're typing and completely fading into the background both color-wise and perspective/convergence-lines wise. All of those controls that seemed so obscure and/or difficult to understand or access now have keys with clear icons and nice feedback.

In short, there's a tremendous atten

Re:low standards by juasko · 2011-02-09 11:54 · Score: 1

Funny, I see just the opposite, people get impressed by things you could do on a apple product already in the -80s. Well true a NeXT computer was even better, but nobody had them, so hard to get impressed of anything that you never saw or knew about.

But oh windows -95, long file names and plug n play. Better name would have been plug n pray. But all this was something a mac user took for granted then.
Oh, 1MB of ram was possible with a tweak. Apple user at that time had computers that could do 128MB ram, if they just afforded it.
Network, Something that exploded on the PC side in mid -90s. Something that apple users been doing over a decade.
High resolution screens over 640x480... an other things that was natural to a Apple user.

It's more been that the rest of the industry has been catching up on Apple, and yes in some areas they passed Apple tech, but Apple is back developing aggressively. And the industry is again starting to play catch up with Apple.

The funny thing was that back then in the -80s and beginning of -90 Apple users where accused for the same thing. Though in reality the industry was 10 years behind. Graphical user interface are not for real computer users... it's just a toy etc etc etc, 10 years later they started to do the same.

Why would an error affect apple sales by kelemvor4 · 2011-02-09 12:13 · Score: 1

"Analysts also argue that Apple sold millions of AT&T iPhone 4's last year and despite the media-furor, consumers did not line up at Apple Stores demanding refunds." It's been obvious for some time now that functionality is NOT the reason iProducts are popular. iProducts are "cool" and "trendy", much in the same way a prada handbag is popular yet inferior in function to many cheaper alternatives. So, given this fact, it makes sense that a major flaw did not elicit any serious repercussions from apple customers.

Re:low standards by FuckingNickName · 2011-02-09 12:34 · Score: 1

Funny, I see just the opposite, people get impressed by things you could do on a apple product already in the -80s.

This was true between 1992 and 1995 for people whose only exposure to computers was IBM AT clones running DOS.

's 2011 now.

Well true a NeXT computer was even better,

Yes, it was one of the better Smalltalk wannabes.

plug n play. Better name would have been plug n pray. But all this was something a mac user took for granted then.

Which was the standard expansion bus on a 1995 Mac to which any of a virtually infinite number of cards/peripherals could be easily connected?

Oh, 1MB of ram was possible with a tweak.

Oh, you're thinking of the specific case of DOS on an IBM AT clone - like I said, ignorance of alternatives is what leads Apple users to become excessively impressed. Anyway, a couple dozen lines of assembler to enable gate A20 and switch to unreal mode isn't the end of the world.

Apple user at that time had computers that could do 128MB ram, if they just afforded it.

My early '90s MicroVAX has 256MB! And everyone could have had one of them if only they could afford it...

Network, Something that exploded on the PC side in mid -90s. Something that apple users been doing over a decade.

Mm, I recall the BBC Econet network from my school in the mid '80s... oh, wait, not PC.

High resolution screens over 640x480... an other things that was natural to a Apple user.

I liked Apple's high resolution monochrome. Pity they started colouring things up then fucked up royally with OS X. At least they've been progressively black-and-whitening it again. Shame it's gone mostly dark grey instead and the distracting eye candy remains.

It's more been that the rest of the industry has been catching up on Apple, and yes in some areas they passed Apple tech, but Apple is back developing aggressively.

No, it's integrating and marketing aggresively. It's very good at that.

Graphical user interface are not for real computer users... it's just a toy etc etc etc, 10 years later they started to do the same.

It is just a toy when compared to a text interface. It's just that the average person cannot afford the time to learn a more efficient way of navigating and applying his computer. This is fair enough - computers are very mainstream now. Like Apple said, "for the rest of us."

antenna revision by wan9xu · 2011-02-09 12:36 · Score: 1

i believe the antenna has been revised. from a 3 piece to a 4 piece. i thought the extra break along the perimeter would allow at least part of the antenna to work normally while the rest gets grounded by the finger.

Media-furor kept me from buying an iPhone by walterbyrd · 2011-02-09 13:57 · Score: 1

I bought a new phone last November. At first, when my old contract was winding down, I was looking forward to getting an iphone. But after all the bad press, I decided to go with an android.

Apple may have sold millions of iPhone 4s. But, maybe, Apple could have sold millions more?

Re:God here we go again.....all phones have the is by Timothy+Brownawell · 2011-02-09 14:11 · Score: 1

The iphone 4 has a VERY real problem when you hold it not in some magical "death grip"....

... according to everybody but the owners of the phone.

Every iphone 4 I've seen coworkers using lately has one of those rubber bumpers on it. I don't see this for the company-issue blackberries or for people with other kinds of phone (including those who have iphone 3's), and I didn't see it for the first couple weeks after people got their iphone 4's. This suggests to me that there is a severe problem, but it has a (rather ugly) $2 workaround that everyone uses.

Re:God here we go again.....all phones have the is by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2011-02-09 14:31 · Score: 2

Every iphone 4 I've seen coworkers using lately has one of those rubber bumpers on it.

"Oh, neat, free stuff!"

This suggests to me that there is a severe problem...

The lack of returns on the iPhone should suggest otherwise.

Don't forget that the sites that keep insisting it's a big problem are also the same sites that make out like bandits when people get into fanboy wars. But.... now I'm explaining sensationalism. Funny that.

--

"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

myth of the Death Grip by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 15:39 · Score: 0

I'm totally with you on the myth of the "Death Grip" as a spin that Apple tried to put on the whole thing. Apparently they did a good job.

The real problem is all about that little gap which just takes one finger to bridge. I have an iPhone 4 that I bought just a month ago and I can easily get the bars to drop by just holding the phone normally and letting my pinky bridge the gap. Never had a call drop though.

As is every other phone. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 15:43 · Score: 0

So what?

Other phones with death grips... by catchblue22 · 2011-02-09 15:57 · Score: 2

I've seen video of most other major smart phone with a similar "death grip". For example, this video shows a Blackberry Bold with a significant signal loss when held a certain way. Why the hysterics over the iPhone? It feels as if Slashdot is being gamed in a PR campaign.

--
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)

Re:Other phones with death grips... by Stevecrox · 2011-02-09 19:57 · Score: 1

Thanks for buying into Apples marketing, yes you are correct al phones will drop signal when you block most of it in a "Death Grip". You don't need to actually hold an iPhone 4 to cause this problem, because Apple placed the wifi and phone antenna's on the outside you can bridge them with your little finger. Bridging antennas causes them to detune and your signal quality to drop.

The reason for the hate? First I like many other slashdotters have been annoyed to death by iDevice owners telling me how wonder full and innovative their new iDevice is, but mostly because any microwave engineer can tell you putting the antenna's on the outside like that is a stupid thing to do and it was one of Apple's major "innovations" for this phone.

Re:This just in...steve jobs dick, my mouth by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 16:02 · Score: 0

Because the death grip isn't the problem. Nice try, Steve Jobs.

The problem is a gap in the antenna. it's not about squeezing the thing, it's about holding it in your hand. Stop beating the dead horse strawman of the "death grip".

It's so fucking frustrating that apple marketing has turned this into a "see! look they're abusing our device to get it to do something bad!" argument. It happens when you hold the device like any other phone. Try holding your samsung or blackberry in your hand like you're going to make a call. Do the bars drop? Try it with a bumperless iphone 4. do the bars drop? There's your test.

If you squeeze your phone as a test, you're an idiot. Good boy, you did exactly as apple wanted you to do. That squeeze test was part of an Apple PR campaign, and not a criticism thrown by any blogger.

Calls? by codepunk · 2011-02-09 16:09 · Score: 1

Who in the hell uses a iphone to make phone calls anyhow? I have been carrying mine for nearly three years and have enjoyed every minute of it. If it where not for the fact that I need a older device to test my software on I would have gladly upgraded already. I have never had any call problems and I would not hesitate for a single second to buy the new one.

--

Got Code?

nothing new here by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 16:21 · Score: 0

All cell phones suffer from a "death grip" depending on how they're held. The exact same issue has been documented with dozens of different phones, including the most popular Android based phones. Human hands attenuate signal, and that's never going to change.

Re:low standards by codepunk · 2011-02-09 16:45 · Score: 1

Really, I happen to use a Mac because it is the best hardware I could buy. I make my living on a computer so I am willing to pay a premium to have to best tools money can buy.

I bet you think craftsman tools are better than Snap-On also? Having been a professional mechanic many years ago I can tell you that craftsman was good but it was not the best. When I put a wrench on a rusted up old bolt I would reach for snap on wrench any day. Why, well when I round that bastard off with a almost good enough wrench I just lost three hours of pay and frustration.

Same goes for the computers I use, time is money and if I am farting around with sub standard shit I am loosing money.

--

Got Code?

FromTheObvious by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-09 17:50 · Score: 0

Here's an idea... Don't hold the iPhone with a 'death grip.' If you talk a lot, you should be using a headset anyway. Now I'm not saying that people should have to use a headset, but only that maybe you shouldn't be clenching your phone to your ear when it only requires a few fingers anyway. BTW, I use an iPhone 3GS and can experience this issue too if I use my hand as a shield from transmissions.

I don't care. by bsquizzato · 2011-02-09 17:54 · Score: 1

Analysts also argue that Apple sold millions of AT&T iPhone 4's last year and despite the media-furor, consumers did not line up at Apple Stores demanding refunds."

"This phone won't leave your signal hanging dry as you grasp firmly"

"I don't care. I want the iPhone"

omg! by werewolf1031 · 2011-02-09 21:41 · Score: 1

OMG nerf Death Grip it's OP!!!1!11

QQ

(Sorry folks, had to be done. As you were.)

Slashdot = 4th Grade Recess by Wingsy · 2011-02-10 01:10 · Score: 1

I still have /. on my RSS feeds because sometimes they link to some interesting scientific & engineering subjects. Once in a while, like today, I dive into the comments just to see how things are coming along (when extremely bored I've even left a comment). But it's still the same. Utterly childish, like 4th grade boys on the playground duking it out over who has the loudest mouth. Step back and look it over. See yourself?

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If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.

Linear Vibrator by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-10 01:22 · Score: 0

I just discovered the CDMA iPhone uses a linear vibrator... Maybe we'll get haptic "click feedback" soon... I'd like to have that

And Steve Jobs said... by augi01 · 2011-02-10 01:53 · Score: 1

So if you put your finger on this one spot the phone doesn't work? Well then don't put your finger there.

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No yesterday, no tomorrow, and no today.

The real question is... by nycguy · 2011-02-10 02:23 · Score: 1

What happens when you stick the iPhone up your ass? How many bars then? And iPhone owners can't say they haven't tried, cuz how else would they have put the phone next to their ears!

no problem for me by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-10 03:16 · Score: 0

I got my Verizon iPhone on Monday. I have yet to experience a dropped call or bad signal strength. Now I do notice the bars fluctuate, but no more than they did on any of the other cell phones I've ever had.

Re:low standards by juasko · 2011-02-10 04:59 · Score: 1

The Macs handled colour back then pretty fine. Only that most monitors where monocrome or grayscale. Large color screens where available. Any mac back then handled colors even if you had a monocrome screen. I know as dad was in the marketing bussiness, he had a 19" greyscale monitor connected to a Mac SE, later SE/30, but still produced color prints. That computer was still in use as late as to 2000. Yeah it had become a server for less needed tasks, had a localtalk to ethernet bridge. But hey you could even surf the web with it. All on System 7. With a computer made 1989, that is the SE/30.

Re:low standards by FuckingNickName · 2011-02-10 08:19 · Score: 1

What I meant was that I like a clean, simple, low-colour UI. I find the eye candy of modern operating systems (especially OS X) to be horribly distracting - especially the dark-grey-on-light-grey text which is difficult to read when compared with simple monochrome.

Re:God here we go again.....all phones have the is by RapmasterT · 2011-02-10 08:50 · Score: 1

Look up the word 'sensationalism'

Ok, but only if you look up the word "repeatable".

Non-issue by kehren77 · 2011-02-10 13:31 · Score: 2

First, I will admit that I am an Apple fanboy.

That said has anyone looked at how you have to grip the phone for this to happen? Who the hell holds their phone like that? Are you using it in a hurricane and don't want it to blow away? Seriously non-issue.

Re:low standards by juasko · 2011-02-10 22:09 · Score: 1

Well, that i fully agree on, I hate the color explosion the dock creates. I really would like the dock to have a saturation option, then I could make it totally grayscale simply. I also dislike the thick bars in OSX.

But one thing they did right with osx, they removed the bars around a window that they introduced with MacOS8. Which really only came to be due to Win95 gray bar theme and that win95 got popular. Apple back then had little forward vision of what to do with their system. They had System 8 but no leadership behind it, it was their longhorn.

So imo there was no update to the system between System 7 and MacOSX. 8, 9 was all old system 7.
Well if you consider the small details in improvement, still 7.6 was basically the same as the later ones.

Slashdot Mirror

Verizon iPhone Also Haunted By the Death Grip

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