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Motorola Xoom Won't Have Flash Support At Launch
Several readers have sent word that Motorola's Xoom tablet, marketed as the iPad's first significant competitor, won't ship with Flash support. Quoting:
"Support for Adobe's Flash technology has been an argument for the Android operating system since Apple CEO Steve Jobs notoriously said that Flash is a dying technology and that it won't make it onto iOS devices for several reasons. Flash support appeared in Android with version 2.2 and Google even flaunted it as a killer feature for tablets running Honeycomb (3.0), like the Motorola Xoom. But it looks like Adobe and/or Google have yet to put the finishing touches on Flash's implementation in Android 3.0. An advertisement for the Xoom on Verizon's site says (in 6 point text at the bottom) that Adobe Flash support on the Xoom is expected in Spring 2011, meaning this functionality won't be available at the launch of the first Honeycomb tablet on February 24. Considering how slow carriers and manufacturers are when it comes to software updates, this Spring 2011 update could mean more like late Spring 2011 ETA."
the Xoom is going to Xuck. I'll keep my Nook.
Only Apple can get away with a move like that!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
But that's good right? Isn't Flash an inefficient battery drainer like we are constantly told? If so, why is this bad news?
From the headline I was concerned that Xoom wasn't going to have reprogrammable nonvolatile memory.
I need to get out more.
Honestly, Flash is nice to have but not the be-all end-all that some have made it out to be. On my Android handheld, flash is almost all advertisements. On my iPad, I've been able to stream Netflix, Yahoo clips, YouTube, and WSJ videos with no problem. Somehow they've worked around the no-Flash limitation.
As a side note, I love my new iPad but some spouse or daughter is going to inherit it as soon as one of these awesome Honeycomb tablets comes down to my price range. iPad is great, but a bit too closed for my tastes. I'll just have to suffer a few months longer...
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
It's sort of a bummer if the first honeycomb tablet wont support one of(if not the) largest video sites. After all, that used to be a selling point. I know there are hacked together solutions that convert content "in the cloud" and push to the device, but thats got limited support.
I have a Galaxy tab. The dedicated youtube app works fine, but running flash within the browser brings the whole machine to a halt for many seconds.
As a result, Vimeo is pretty much uselss and they don't have a dedicated app yet (just a buggy fan-made app).
$7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
“Anecdotal evidence isn't valid!”
“Yes it is! I once used an anecdote as evidence, and later it turned out I was right!”
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
That's why I said we were just one datapoint :)
Trolling is a art,
Is there any video of someone actually using the Xoom? So far the only video I've found is someone using it's video player.
Motorola has been quite bad about promising updates and not delivering. See here for a list of broken promises. Especially glaring was the failure on the Cliq XT. A year of "we're testing it" followed by "we just couldn't do it". Never mind that the phone ships in Korea running 2.1, never mind that custom 2.1 firmwares work flawlessly, they just wanted to sell new phones. I know Moto is just another big corp doing what big corps do, but eff them, I (and all the non-techies that ask my advice) won't be buying Moto anything again.
Shift happens. Fire it up.
I have moved into a flash free existence and all of my devices are better off. My electricity bill was less.
Flash is not dependent upon the carrier or manufacturer.. just Adobe. So as soon as it is ready, users can download it from the Android Market.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=11520394#post11520394
While not as good as official support at launch, this may help those who need flash.
How many(if any), native applications are you using that are iDevice-specific implementations of a web property or game that is otherwise flash based? If nonzero, how many of those also have an Android equivalent?
That is why Apple can spit on flash, while Google is getting cozy with Adobe... Apple knows that, for the present at any rate, they have the install base sufficient to drive people to develop platform specific applications for them. Android has fewer platform-specifics, which makes Adobe's ability to(imperfectly) make available the vast legacy base of Flash stuff all at once attractive...
In the long term, Flash is almost certainly fucked. Apple and Microsoft both have competing native environments and development tools in which they are strongly invested, and which are defaults on their platforms. Google is less overtly hostile; but their native environment also isn't flash based, and their web products are pretty aggressive about advancing native HTML/JS and using those where possible. Adobe has the advantage of well-entrenched design tools; but their flash runtime has no platform of its own, and the world isn't quite as friendly as it used to be... Short and mid term, though, there is a huge body of legacy and current stuff that they can offer to platforms with weaker native application bases.
Yeah, but there're only so many anecdotes on a day without incendiary politics stories.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
It's interesting that the majority of Slashdotters will froth at the mouth at the mere mention of the Evil Flash, and claim that *they* have it blocked anyway...
But mention a device that ships without it, and it's "crippled"...
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
If you keep your iPad (or buy a new one), don't count on keeping your Netflix or Kindle apps. Apple is demanding that they sell their movies and books through Apple, and hand over 30% of the revenue. Apple is threatening to pull the apps if they don't get their way. It may end up that you will give up your Netflix streaming if you stay with Apple. Both Netflix and Amazon have annouced that they will release Android versions of their apps this year.
I have a couple of mobile devices with purported Flash support (Nokia N900 and N8), and while they play video and handle "click" ok, they don't do mouseover, dragging, and other things that makes anything besides video viable. The one device that I saw that supported these advanced features did so by creating a virtual cursor that you moved via arrow keys -- terrible. When Apple decided not to support Flash, this was one of the justifications, and in my mind, the only truly legitimate one. Until Adobe redesigns flash with some sort of drag or gesture support, it's always going to be a poor experience on mobile devices.
- Vincit qui patitur.
Seems close enough. At least it isn't on AT&T. I'm still waiting for my Captivate to be updated so the GPS will work properly.
To be honest, I've never heard of a firmware update coming from Motorola. All I hear is excuses. My L6 and Quench (aka Cliq xt) never got their update, so I'm basically a sitting duck for malware in Android. The L6 was trusty, but the Quench is full of bugs I'll never get fixed. I'm just waiting for Cyanogen Mod to add support to the MIB501 to erase the crap out of that phone.
I rarely respond to comments. Also, don't ask for clarifications: a brain and Google are faster, believe me!
If Flash was just an app update why does every device and software combination have to be tested by Adobe for flash certification?
Adobe Flash requires direct hardware access. it requires tighter hardware access than the OS or the radio.
If it is just an app why does it need so much?
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
As far as I'm concerned, the life of one of the workers in his sickening factories, is worth ten times more than his pathetic evil ass.
Steve Jobs is probably an asshole in real life as stories suggest, but, let's be honest: Foxconn is not one of his factories. Apple like Dell, like HP, like many other manufacturers contracts Foxconn to manufacture their products (sometimes in the same factory). Apple could have been more inquisitive about the working conditions of the people who make their products but there are not alone in this regard that they were not aware. In fact, I don't seem to recall that any other manufacturer promising anything to help the workers of their products before or after the incidents.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Yes, we know how very well that strategy played out for Apple in the past, when they were the leaders and competing with cheaper but open and standard alternatives...
But hey, it's not like they're in imminent danger of Steve Jobs leaving the company... oh.
It certainly sounds an awful lot like history repeating.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
You do realize that Foxconn probably makes the Xoom as well, right? And everything else?
Hon Hai Precision Electronics (Foxconn) is a huge company - and it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to buy any electronics that haven't passed through their hands.
So if you want to boycott Apple over the worker treatment at Foxconn, you will have to boycott Dell, HP, Sony, Microsoft, Samsung, Acer, Asus, Motorola, ...
Hell, do any of those companies actually try to audit their factories? Or have any of them done anything to help improve conditions?
Hence the "for the present at any rate"...
If(and only if) Apple adjusts their strategy as needed, I would say that what they are doing is (while rather nasty) quite pragmatic. They could hardly have had a better position from which to induce the production of iOS-native applications, favorable network effects, and customer lock-in than they have enjoyed since the iPhone release. They would have been foolish to turn that down by spending their time obsessing about whether it could support Flash, and Java(and its cellphone variants), and BREW, and whatnot. They had what a very desirable segment of customers very much desired. That left them in the position to make the rules and tell everyone that they could play along or not at all. By doing so, they made a pile of cash and had a huge library of applications produced for their exclusive platform.
Now should they(through some combination of the continued improvement of Android and decreasing cost of handsets running it or internal Scully-esque stagnation) start heading back to the bad old days of flogging incremental improvements to old products, for high prices, as their competitors advance rapidly, they may have to revise this strategy...
If they do revise it, they should get away largely unscathed(and with a giant pile of cash and legacy application lock-in in the bank). Even after Jobs' public mockery of them, Adobe would probably come running like a whipped puppy if given the chance to offer Flash on iDevices. Doing something along the lines of Blackberry's rumored 'dalvik-alike' android compatibility mechanism would also be entirely possible. As would things like making the device available to more carriers and/or for a lower margin.
If they do not revise it, they could have some long-term issues...
I have a mytouch 4g, it had flash installed with android 2.2, it works ok on the tmobile network and in my own wifi. Not awesome but way better than my powerbook g4 with 10.4.11.
If they don't audit then they can't know that anything is wrong so nothing needs to be improved and only Evil Apple was so vile to observe Foxconn and force the conditions and suicides into existence solely by that act.
i wonder if western governments know about that argument - it might be convenient when it comes to providing support for foreign regimes that do horrible things like torture and murder their citizens. hey, you could call it Realpolitik...?
Many times the complaint about western governments is that they impose their morals and customs on other countries. In this case, the western custom of an 8 hr work day must be adhered to is being advocated by you.
Also the problem was the number of suicides, not murders. Out of the hundreds of thousands of workers that Foxconn employs I think there have been 20 reported suicides. I don't to belittle the deaths of those who died, but that's a very small percentage considering that the two major plants of Foxconn employ about 750,000 workers.
Working for Foxconn means long hours, however, such is the normal in China. According to this BusinessWeek article, the employees want long hours because it means more money for them as they are paid overtime. As for the controlled environments, Foxconn has said initially when these factories were built, there was nothing around them: no shops, no restaraunts, etc. as they tended to be in the middle of nowhere. To keep employee turnover low, they had to build the amenities in the factories. If you're not aware even today, keeping employees is not easy in China today. Employees jump companies all the time.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
If you are talking about standard, Apple did not compete with standards, they used standards while other standards evolved around them to compete with Apple. For instance Apple used the RS242 standard for many interconnects. It was well understood and easy to implement with software using widely available hardware. Compare the random and non standard connects of the mid-1980s. Apple also used SCSI. Some did not like it, because it was expensive, but it provided and elegant standards based solution to a complicated problem. It was easy to plug and play in a time when such things did not often exist. USB was fully implemented again provided standards based plug and play connectivity. Using standards based protocols for printers, cameras, scanners, it is not neccesary to create and configure a driver for every device. Just plug and play.
The standards for Mail, iCal, iDisk, iTunes, iBooks are open and, outside of annoying DRM, can interact with any compliant standard setup.
What many complain about is that the Mac is not an 'open' hackers machine. But neither is the PC. Hacking is not replacing one hard drive with another. Hard hacks are hardly every done anymore, and hard hacks not involving the machine itself no longer requires access to the internals of the machine. I remember my Apples never had a lid on because i was in and out of them due tot he fact that to get speed, you had to access the mother board. Now I can get a universal chip programmer or under $100 and hook it up to my USB port.
Now if all you want is cheaper, that is another story. My opinion is this 30% fee is really going to push the market for Android. Right now iBooks is a complete dud and anyone who wants an ereader has an Amazon.
Apple did right in creating a device based with open standard interfaces. The month by month for 3g is good, and the no free for WifI is good. They corrected the mistake of the newton with a fully integrated product offering between all devices. For what I use the devices for, they serve my purpose and I really can live or not live with the subscriptions services. I do not really see myself depending on SaaS, especially since Apple products run so many OS products. I either can pay for a product once and use it on all my machines, or simply get the product for free. None of the complications of so-called 'open' proprietary products.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
i always wondered why it was that people talk a lot about globalizing free trade... ...but you don't hear so much about globalizing human or labor rights.
No the problem is you're complaining about a problem when you don't understand the definition. You are complaining that working long hours is some sort violation of labor rights when it isn't. Working 8 hours a day is only the Western ideal of work day in the US only. The French consider anything over 35 hours a week to be long. These are cultural differences in working hours..
so, if conditions are so bad in a factory that people kill themselves in numbers then we shouldn't impose our standards onto them (especially if it's not financially expedient to do so.) Ok.
No you have to understand that the knee-jerk reaction of "OMG factories in China are evilz" only show you don't really know what you're talking about. Please cite any fact other than the workers worked long hours as an example of bad working conditions.
i think i'm starting to get the hang of this, i reckon i just need my moral compass to be a little bit more flexible, like yours is.
No you just have to stop imposing your moral compass and judgment on everyone around you.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Well there goes my purchase. I no longer believe manufacturers when they make promises on future capabilities of their hardware or software. Granted, it's probably Adobe that is causing the delay with the new Tegra platforms, but I've been burned too many times by promises of updates. While I wait for the Xoom to get flash I'll sit happy with my little T-Mobile G2 which runs Flash 10.1 like a champ.
So far I read: workers worked long hours (sometimes 12 hours a day). And they didn't like their jobs because it was repetitive. There were some additionally restrictions like not talking. Some of the dormitories had cockroaches (like my old college dorm). And there wasn't running water (which isn't uncommon for China). Their bosses yell at them. They wished they got paid more. They can't afford the things they make.
The sad reality of their situation is that they wish they had better lives with more comforts. They feel trapped by their situation. They could quit but they feel they have to work to support their families back home. I hardly call those human rights abuses.
According to your own links:
There’s one special agreement workers could choose to sign for before starting to work. The workers could sign a voluntary overtime working agreement so the factory is not responsible for their long hours of working. Anyway, they still have public holidays just like anyone.
and
Foxconn’s working conditions are among the best in China, said Huang Ping-der, an associate professor of Business Administration at Taipei’s National Chengchi University. The recent suicides in China have highlighted weaknesses in the company’s management structure, he said.
and
China had a suicide rate of 16.9 people out of 100,000 taking their own lives in 2004, according to estimates from the World Health Organization.
For a company the size of Foxconn, they' have to have 119 suicides by factory workers just be considered "normal".
oh, and these websites may have some flash embedded into them, so if you're using apple then you may find that the performance of your machine may not be up to it. good luck with that!
I don't know what your technical ability is but I block flash and ads on Firefox.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
It's clear that you can't conceive that anyone or any culture may have different morals than you.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
A lot of Flash content is already quite hard to use on a desktop (non-standard scroll bars, fixed resolution etc.)... I would hate to have the same user interface on a touch device with a small screen...
There's rendering and all kind of things that don't need write access to the DOM and can thus be threaded out.