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Libya SIGINT Jamming Satellites, Towers
h00manist writes "Libya's Gaddafi apparently loves radio hacking. Signal jamming is being used to disable Thuraya satellite phones. Also being jammed is satellite TV network provider Arabsat, affecting vast areas in the Middle East, Gulf, Africa and Europe. Cellphone and internet transmissions are working only intermittently. Soldiers are confiscating electronics, too. This has gone on for days, allowing killing to be carried out largely hidden from the rest of the world, quite different from what happened in Egypt. The locations of the jamming signals are known to company executives — around the capital, Tripoli — but nobody can do anything. Only POTS is available, and it is monitored. Technically speaking, could this happen everywhere? Alternatives?"
clearly not from libya.
to the extent it affects neighboring states?
They could be going with SIGKILL. Of course, SIGQUIT would be a nice improvement.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile
http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
This is why you need to keep some nicely directional antennas with shielding from other directions, to reduce the effectiveness of their jamming ... of course the setup better be portable to increase your odds of living!
Clearly Qadafi is going to do the full Tiananmen Square on his people, and yet Europe is not doing anything because 9-10% of their oil was coming from Libya.
It's ridiculous, Libya's own ambassadors are resigning to protest him, and the Libyan UN delegation broke from Qadafi and is publicly demanding from New York that the UN step in and do something. Will anyone at least do something now that he's jamming regional TV and phone?
Really? You mean HARM missiles don't exist? Nobody has access to some fertilizer, duct tape, and blasting caps?
I think you mean ... nobody IS doing anything, not nobody CAN do anything.
Anything emitting a signal gives you a lockon - how do you think we get our missiles to hit the rockets for the fake tests for missile defense? We put radio transmitters in them.
Seriously ...
Bust out the ham radios and brush up on your CW!
I really need to up my license to General.
There ARE no alternatives. That is why when I hear people say the "MPAA/RIAA/government/etc cannot shut us down we will just do it this other way" I cringe. They can block the Internet and communication. How effective they are at it depends on how much effort they want to put into it. Don't think for a minute it can't happen where you live if they get desperate enough.
A NATO stealth bomber strike to take them out with missiles intended for that (i understand some ordinance can fry electronics). Enough is enough. Fuck Gaddafi!
NO SIG
allowing killing carried out largely hidden from the world view
Really? I see events in Libya plastered all over my news feeds, with numerous reports of killings, use of unprecedented amount of force (fighter jets bombing residential areas, artillery strikes) etc.
UN has nothing to do with preventing little wars and conflicts. UN was setup as a world forum, you know, speaking place, where countries can talk to each other. That is the purpose of the UN - so politicians can talk. This allows someone like Iranian president to come to UN in New York and talk whatever the hell they want. It allowed USSR president to do the same. Or the US president.
The purpose of the UN security council is to prevent nuclear war between major superpowers.
The extras added to the function of the UN, like UNICEF or demining program or peacekeeping are all extras and have nothing to do with the core of UN functionality.
So in the respect of world forum and prevention of nuclear war that destroys the entire human civilization, I would have to say that UN worked quite well so far.
If I were there right now, I would be helping people set up a network of tiny servers. Use UUCP (over POTS or over a network of WiFi networks, using the pringles can antenna hack to boost range to the next node - in a pinch, sneaker net by dedicated volunteers might also bridge some gaps) and USENet software (probably INN), and you can make sure that any photos or media will spread through the whole network so that any one node's removal would not remove the data.
You need not be up 24x7, in fact it is probably smarter to stagger up times so that you only overlap with the nodes nearby you in the network.
At that point, it only takes one of the nodes being in contact with a western news agency to get the data out - whether by some sort of closed link, or by sneaker net (the eastern border is completely unguarded, CNN just walked right in).
Hell, use some micro servers and a solar panel and you're even immune to power disruption.
Information technology makes it really easy to make data persistent if you are determined to do so.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
I think this was my favorite quote from the article:
... which is illegal," CEO Samer Halawi told Al Arabiya television.
"Unfortunately there is deliberate jamming by Libya
I'm pretty sure Gaddafi stopped caring about what is legal when he had his army open fire on the protests.
For once in your miserable lives.
You go in and clean up the mess. After all Libya is supplying your oil.
Or blithely drive around in your BMW's and Fiats talking about how civilized your are.
You finc
missiles sound about right.
get the captain midnight guy to over ride this he still alive right?
the roomer is that the guy who did the max headroom incident is dead.
Hack cheap 49 MHz FRS/GMS walkie talkies, Arduinos andf WiFi to create an ersatz packet radio communication network. Post the "How To" online in multiple languages. For extra credit, add long distance WiFi links using Pringles can antennae and program everything to sleep and wake up in unpredictable intervals so they're hard to find.
The FRS/GMS radios are computer controlled already, so it's not that hard, but not trivial either as there's a lot of information to collect.
The radios already frequency hop, so there's lots of clever tricks that you can implement.
I would expect the Europeans wouldn't consider a military action, even if justified, because it would look too much like the US military actions that are almost universally derided as imperialism or cowboy diplomacy.
I seem to recall the US followed the European lead in "dealing" with Bosnia - and how long did it take to act effectively there?
#DeleteChrome
IPoAC - IP over Avian Carriers
AlJazeera should (and others) should publish the exact locations of the jammers. The People of Liby can deal with them.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/africa/2011/02/23/live-blog-libya-feb-24 I have to wonder if soldiers confiscating electronics offer to sell them back to the people they confiscated them from? Nothing like a falling regime to bring out the entrepreneurial spirit.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EH22Ak03.html
http://rescommunis.wordpress.com/2010/03/25/complaints-about-iranian-satellite-jamming/
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/06/23/letter-eutelsat-corporation
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/26/us-iran-jamming-itu-idUSTRE62P21G20100326
The Cuban government was home to an Iranian jamming program in the old Soviet facilities for years.
And the Libyans have done this before
http://www.space.com/3666-libya-pinpointed-source-months-long-satellite-jamming-2006.html
When the US goes into "clean up the mess" we are called baby killers.
This is in the European Union's backyard do they have the fortitude to do it themselves?
methods of transmission:
fibre, shielded CAT & co-ax
some spread spectrum radios can probably overcome jamming
carrier pigeons strapped w/ micro-sd cards
Counter-tactics:
play hotter and colder with AM(?) radios to find the jamming source
jamming requires lots of power, attack power plants and generators
Now he just carried the war outside the border. I say that leaves him open to invasion... Whoopeee!
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
'Cause going in and cleaning messes worked so well for the "cleaned" countries in the past...
Stenography = hiding a datastream in a picture.
Somethingelseography = hiding a datastream in a voice transmission?
I would recommend a jam buster buster.
We should of finished the job while he was talking in front of his bombed house. I'm sure Regan was in his grave trying to push a launch button.
Look, people die, that's horrible. But Libya's problems are their own internal problem. It's ultimately a healthy thing that Libyans are revolting against their dictator. This is democracy at its finest. If all goes well, this is going to be their 1776.
If the West were to intervene, that would kill all of the legitimacy that this movement has. The West is pro-Kadaffi, just Google a bit and you will find pictures of Kadaffi shaking hands the hands of smiling people like Barack Obama, Gordon Brown and Silvio Berlusconi. The West doesn't give a flying fuck about Libyans as long as their own citizens can buy cheap oil and that is why the West is so embarrassed when a regime they support falls. That is what happened in Egypt, Tunisia and now, possibly, in Libya. That is what happened in a dozen Latin American countries two decades ago. The West is part of the problem here, not the solution. Leave them alone. This could be the blood bath that will end all future blood baths.
Question: Could this happen anywhere ?
Answer: Yes. Case closed.
Funny, this. When Saddam killed Kurds, people cried out for western intervention. Then the west invades to dispose and it isn'y right either. Somalia erupts and again the same people cry out for intervention, but then complain when some war mongers get killed. Same with Afghanistan. Women get stoned, intervene! Intervention happens: GET OUT!
So, are you pro Iraq invasion? Pro-war? Pro-increased military budgets? Pro-conscription? Then what exactly do you mean with intervention.
The simple fact is that the real world is a hellishly difficult place and western governments are dealing with an electorate incapable of keeping a coherent train of thought in a single sentence. How can you make policy of any kind when one moment people want peace and war the next? When we should leave other nations alone but also stop them from doing anything we disagree with?
And do the Libyans even want intervention? By who? The reports coming from Libya are far from reliable. One thing that has been noted is that foreigners who have gotten out speak of plenty of HEARED violence and even some theft but not a single sign of the hardcore violence reported. Covering their tracks? Violence happens elsewhere or maybe the violence is over stated? Who knows for sure and you wish western officials to commit to what might turn into an extended decades long war based on this?
And if you start intervening, how soon? Intervene at any protest where people die at the hand of the police? That would have seen the US invaded by the west to stop its police killing protestors pretty much throughout its history. What of the many race riots, intervention?
Intervention is rarely used, it is just to drastic a tool.
And of course it would play right into the dictators hand, see, the rioters are lead by foreigners seeking to re-establish their colonies. You are away that Libya used to be a colony of, I believe, France? Send in the Foreign legion? Yeah, that would go over well.
No, the cries for intervention are best ignored by a politician because the exact same kids will be protesting ten seconds after you intervene about that as well. Best to ignore them.
Let the Libyans choose their own destiny. When they win, it will have been their own freedom they have won on their own terms. Imposed freedom will never taste as sweet as freedom you won yourself.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You would be to busy trying to skoop the shit out of your pants while quaking in your mothers basement.
Heroes are far and few between and NONE are on slashdot.
The Libyans ain't fighting with fancy gadgets. The twitterers are BEHIND the front lines. The real heroes are attacking army bases with tractors and rocks. Not worrying about some facebook page that won't load.
When the going gets though, the slashdotter hides under his bed. Don't pretend otherwise until you have proven yourself in battle which I hope none of us ever have to do. Because I know myself for the coward that I am.
Or make a stand, right now. KILL a US arms dealer whose weapons are RIGHT now being used to kill civilians. Yes, the US didn't know how fast to sell weapons once it lifted its own embargo. Make a stand now, in your own country and risk your life. Wanna bet you come up with a thousand and one excuses not even to post a nasty email to the politicians who approved the arms deals? It takes a coward to know one.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
AMEN
but that won't happen. so, i'm at the point where i think we should just let the middle east blow up and when they are done killing each other, we buy the oil from who ever is left.
oil is black regardless of who sells it.
side note: you think they are pissed at the west now, wait until they run out of oil and they have NOTHING to offer the world, and we go back to treating them like Africa.
Sometimes it takes more fortitude to stand by and let history happen. The Libyans need to do this for themselves. They have enough history of people doing things for them, they call that period colonialism.
Carrier pigeons with 32GB microSD cards strapped to them. Depending on the speed of the pigeon and distance, it would be a higher bandwidth than dial-up. You could encrypt the contents of the microSD card. Pigeons can cross the borders unchallenged (unless Libya has trained attack falcons), and once the pigeon is in the air, it is almost impossible to determine the source location. Gotta love low tech.
China is vetoing action.
They're worried that they'll be next in 3-6 months, and they've already had at least four cities launch Net-instilled protests for freedom.
NATO could act alone, but won't due to the oil dependency of the EU players.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
If we actually wanted to restore comms to Libya, we'd be better off sending a shallow skiff with some satellite phones to the Eastern 2/3 of Libya that's already free.
None of this jamming stops satellite phones from working, at least not the directional ones, if you stand behind a building or shield the phone/antenna with foil.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
If true, the jammers could be silenced with GPS-enabled cruise missile strikes (if the geolocations are known with sufficient accuracy) or radiation-homing missiles (if the jammer signatures are adequately characterized). Tempting, isn't it?
If you send radio waves e.g. WiFi, you're going to get jammed, even if you do use a pringles can. You're also assuming they have spare solar panels laying about, this is Libya we're talking about.
IMHO what you would be better off doing is using light transmissions, it's directional and can't be jammed as long as you have line of sight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Data_Transmission
Libya was an Italian colony.
No, you get a -1 for delivering your evaluation of his humour in an antisocial and totally distasteful manner. I'd far rather tolerate "predictable redundant humour" than tolerate needlessly angry and misguided rantings.
Eliminate the predictable redundant humor and there is no longer anything to be angry and "misguided" about.
"Misguided" of course means "doesn't agree with you".
I agree with you (mostly). The Libyans let a clown-dictator to stay for 40 years! it was part of a self-determination exercise and what is happening right now is the result. West is not the world's police and as such, Libyans have to deal with their reality just like everyone else does.
Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
What sort of equipment would be needed to do the jamming? Shortwave? Here's a large shortwave radio station to the SW of Tripoli.
I didn't notice any SAM sites around it, unlike around Tripoli itself. Look at all those missiles. Somebody doesn't want any uninvited aerial visitors near Tripoli :-)
So, with the lack of defense around that station, maybe that's a civilian station and the jamming is from another location, like one of the numerous military bases around the country?
I'm sure Doc Brown is still around somewhere, haven't talked to him in a while since he got married and had a couple kids.
the main problem seems to be helicopter gun ships. For those, a simple rpg solution usually works best, or a wire spindle device.
the locals recently took control of a local AFB in Libya next to Tripoli and found the air crews there helped them once they realized they were being lied to - my guess is we'd be best just making sure Gaddafi doesn't get any ammo resupply and that should solve most of the problem. Communications and surprise is what wins battles, anyway, especially when you have a looney tunes dictator shooting and bombing his own people.
I'd limit any "aid" to food, first aid, communications, and maybe maps to where the signal jammers were located and let the Libyans themselves retake their own country. They can get arms from the local police and military who have already defected.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Everybody is running around talking about military intervention, but you're forgetting a basic point: This is an internal matter of a sovereign nation. We might not like what's happening, but going into Libya with guns blazing is just as illegal as doing it to Iraq. There is a long list of people who complain about america running around invading countries for their oil, and yet they will happily stand there and say that the americans should rush into this country and do the same. If you want your opinions and morals to be respected you have to be consistent in them. The people of Libya haven't asked for outside aid.
The purpose of his death was to affect the living with fear and control. While that poor fellow is dead, I assure you that he felt nothing. Quick and painless. Still sucks for his family and his denial at life.
Life is not for the lazy.
World governments should take note of just how effective this is (ie, it's not).
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Unless "Libya SIGINT" refers to some organization, the title of this submission is a little off. SIGINT, or signals intelligence, refers to a type of collection, not a type of transmission. This is like saying somebody's catch-all mailbox was sending out spam.
Evil is the money of root.
I'm not aware of all the details. But since the eastern part of the country has been lost by Gaddafi, isn't it possible for them to neutralize the jamming tower and send data from there?
cap: systemic
You know the one thing I never understood is why Emmett's car couldn't go faster than 88 mph... sure it left flames in its wake, which was really neat, but getting caught by a VW van isn't cool.
Others are just better at it. All of the major news channels are under government control. They are all feeding us rubbish and have us do their bidding by calling it being more green. All the while the FCC controls the airwaves, and can pull the plug at any time. They test their jamming services weekly, under the guise that it is a test and only a test.
When a media outlet is deemed uncontrolable, our government will squash them like bugs. Wiki-leaks anyone?
directv does not have that jaming cable has aka the ems messages that can take over your own cable card boxes as well.
Seriously, in any modern conflict total EM control is a mandate. Turning on a transmitter, is switching on a flood light given modern hardware.
A line of sight laser-based mesh might work, it would need to be well shielded though...
With control of external interaction usually left to the government (e.g. in person, by phone, email, etc), or within a government's grasp, cutting any nation off from the outside world is feasible.
When it comes to the Kurds, the problem is that the US was so bloody inconsistent. When Saddam gassed the Kurds in 1988, the US tried to frame Iran for it, and sent Rumsfeld in to reassure Saddam that the war was going well and he had the US backing (remember that famous video of them shaking hands?). In 2002-2003 Bush and his ilk kept bringing it up as a justification to invade (as if suddenly noticing it 14 years later) , but when they finally arrest him, they decline to charge him in court with neither the gas attack nor the invasion of Kuwait.
Doing nothing, and practically decimating a country are two extremes I don't support. There's so much that the world can do to help the Libyan people short of actually going into the country with soldiers and guns. Qaddafi relies on external support from friendly allies and lots of money. Target those, and maybe he'll stop some of the madness. It's being said that he's importing mercenaries from neighboring countries and has Venezuela planned as his escape route. Those are both trivially easy to disrupt, among other things.
To start sending in the HARM missiles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile
to US operations in Africa and the Middle East.
Obama, Hillary and a score of "diplomats," many without diplomatic immunity, are in a SHIT-FIT to secure the precious documents and communiqués detailing the US intervention at the highest level of the Governments of the latest riots and how to kill the hapless protesters. Should these documents reach the light of day, the regimes of Obama and Bush will tumble with their indictment on crimes aginst humanity, and lawlessness.
"Hay George W. Bush baby, that Miller Light Beer Truck is honking its horn for YOU."
-308
Give the rebels detectors and let them take the jammers out.
There was a childs toy called a Cybiko which was a hand-held computer introduced back in April 2000, that implemented its own radio network. We could easily create a vastly improved device that instead integrated with the internet and that could operate independently of current ISP's if for some reason normal connections were down. Cell phones are almost there lacking only the ability to operate independently of the carrier. See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybiko
Jane you ignorant slut.
How about F111s just like before? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Libya
hmmm smells like that old Chinese proverb -scratch that- curse... "may you live in interesting times."
You know, I actually picked up some Libyan language skills in the 80s from Dr Brown's experience:
"Shi-ahh" means "my rocket launcher is jammed"
"Goh" means "Follow that Delorean"
"uhluhluhluh" means pretty much everything else
I studied this very closely at the time, examining their syntax and diction, but found out sometime later that I wasn't likely to ever be in a situation where speaking Libyan would be useful. Finally, my moment has arrived! Enjoy the fruits of my labor
For those of you wondering how the U.S. and Europe will meddle in the affairs of Libyan revolution, take a look at this article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12575206
U.S. and Europe convene to discuss an aid strategy for Libya. Maybe it will include a great rate on a loan at the IMF/WB? (probably...)
In vein of IMF and WB, take a look at this article, which does a good job of delineating the greater global political-economy that the arab revolts are largely displeased with:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/201122414315249621.html
I know opinion pieces are not the best for an argument, so, food for thought. (baklava for thought...mmmm)
The best tweet: "I hope programmers worldwide will join me in calling for M[ou]'?am+[ae]r .*([AEae]l[- ])? [GKQ]h?[aeu]+([dtz][dhz]?)+af[iy] to step down."
It could be worse, I'd rather spend the rest of my life writing regular expressions than wading through unicode hell....
Two interesting reads on this:
Robert X. Cringely, The Little Engine That Could, http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2004/pulpit_20040527_000456.html
And the other one to give to the kids:
Cory Doctorow, http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/, 2008
A bad idea and started on a shitty pretext, but legal. For one, nations do have a right to make war against each other. There are consequences of that, but war itself has not been outlawed among nations. There is no world government tot do so and treaties do not forbid it.
However that didn't matter because a de-facto state of war already existed between the US and Iraq. There was no peace treaty after the first Gulf War. The allied forces just stopped kicking Iraq's ass. No treaty was signed, relations were not normalized, etc. What's more, Iraq shot at planes enforcing the no-fly zone all the time. The didn't hit them, but they shot at them.
So a state of war continued to exist, it was just that hostilities had scaled back to small stuff, they'd shoot at planes the planes would blow up the SAM site. All the US did was decide to make it a full on war again. There didn't even need to be a redeclaration or anything.
Also the UN never passed any resolution against it, they couldn't since the US is a permanent security council member and thus can veto it.
No matter how you slice it, the war was legal. An extremely bad idea, but legal. Conflicts are not illegal just because you don't approve of them.
International treaty stipulates a diplomatic notification protocol for responding to the jamming of satellites, which is considered an illegal action by the parties or states perpetrating the jamming action against the owner/operators of the satellites.
Note: All communication satellites can triangulate jamming sources - and some satellites can respond with appropriate focused signal strength to blow out ground stations. Restraint is the better part of courage - as you will see below.
It is important to note that the notification protocol does require diplomatic action - and unfortunately - that requires an ability for diplomats on the ground to send and receive written communications. As Tripoli is in complete chaos, I suspect that the US State Dept is hunkering down with the notification process - and when the notification clock chimes "Deadline", is preparing to give the A-okay to hammer the satellite jamming sites, in order to support "Freedom of Expression."
Any Libyan military cohort running the jamming operations is probably unaware of the niceties that the State Dept is going through right now. They probably will never know unless they fold up their tents and quit the premises before the Sixth Fleet arrives. Or stealth B2's by way of Italy's Aviano ...
It is important to note - that in as much as jamming satellites is a huge inconvenience - it is an inconvenience for all parties who depend on it - including most of the Guadafi loyalists. By increasing the information blackout for many, it actually increases the situational uncertainty for the Loyalists, too. For those in the minority, this can be very unnerving. Especially when they stop their jamming activity - and their signals still don't get through.
I would not be surprised if the satellite jamming continued until after the Jasmine movement succeeds in Tripoli. Blinding the Loyalists to what journalists are saying about members and tactical operations of the Jasmine movement can be very valuable by protecting the movement in the near term.
We must remember that the tactical success of the French Resistance was not built on the strategic principle of Democratic Transparency. Stealth and denial of logistical resources and manpower are key to toppling an embedded military power. Loss of broadcast signal is par for the course - and should be the least of anyone's worries.
Let's see how the Othello of Tripoli plays out ... Without TV, he could just quietly start passing out the Kool-Aid to his inner circle.
He's around sometimes....
How about satellite-burst SMS? Any sat phones offer this?
Diplomacy requires lots of hand-shaking, true.
But this?
What the West should do is support the aid being given from Egypt and other Arab countries. We should not be so arrogant as to assume we know but rather we should ask them what they need to help Libya.
Time to make a "Visible Wavelength Packet Mesh Transmitter". Basically a 360 degree mirror and a high power flash-lamp switched at high frequency and a 360 degree mirror with a photo-diode receiver. Just try and jam that. Would need to be mobile cause you could see it for miles. :-)
NATO could act alone, using oil interests as a motive.
In theory, NATO is supposed to act in defence of its members and their stability. Disrupting the oild supply of most of the members could be weasled as an excuse to act. They're unlikely to sotrm in to oust Gaddafi (or, for that matter, crush the revolutionaries) as that would be a legal headache orders of magnitude more painful than the Iraq fiasco. But there might be a role for NATO if the country descends into blood-soaked chaos, with their "peacekeeper" hat on.
Although to be honest, if the place goes that far down the drain, China/Russia/etc. would probably remove the blocks. They don't like what they see as meddling in a dictator's affairs, but they're not monsters and have backed peacekeeping taskforces in the past.
The locations of the jamming signals are known to company executives — around the capital, Tripoli — but nobody can do anything.
Uh, I don't think "nobody can do anything" is really true here. Remember the 1999 bombing of FR Yugoslavia? Although, hopefully this time they wouldn't be ten years late to the party and yet still manage to cause 500 civilian casualties on the ground. Nevertheless, if you ask those protesters in Libya, they might find this risk an acceptable compromise compared to what's going on there now.
BS, Qadhafi is reportedly using foreign "mercenaries". For a force that large to be mobilized, you can be sure that other governments are participating if not at least complicit. This is part of the master plan to bring Arab oil to $200/bbl, toss out the dollar leaving them stranded and Russia+China unharmed since they recently signed a deal to trade petroleum without US dollars, and then open up reserves here in Bakken, Stansberry, Gulf Island Alaska, etc... under a new form of currency. Laugh and call me crazy, but see who has the last laugh in a week when gasoline is up $0.20-$0.30/gal next week. That will be the first sign of things to come.
No, a RPG is an extremely difficult weapon to use against a helicopter - it was designed for the anti-tank role and needs to hit something hard to detonate.
It took lots of tries and some clever modifications for the Somali's to use RPG's against the American helicopters (I know, we're not supposed to admit that our "enemies" are clever, maybe that's why we have so much trouble beating them?).
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Indeed we (= non Lybian countries) should not go in. At all.
If we want to help, what we can really do is find way to help people there.
By sending "weapons" - and by that I mean the best weapon of all: information (and internet access).
Western countries should pump resources into finding ways to help keeping the informations channels open, no matter what the Lybian ex-government tries to use.
For the short term (Lybia), we should consider every single piece of technology that can help maintain open channels.
For the long term (be ready for the next revolution), the western world should start developing mesh-based technology capable to use lots of different communication channels to create a self-healing mesh network, and each able to serve as an access point. Bonus points if the mesh units hold local storage and could act as a distributed redundant cloud storage to which to upload the news & videos until some point of the mesh network manages to connect to the rest of internet and send it further (each mesh-box running a local copy of Freenet in addition to Tor).
Now imagine, next time a government tries to jam Thuraya satellites, you "just" mass drop small mesh-boxes over the whole country.
To block that, the government would need to jam a much wider gamut of frequencies, over a much larger area and is at risk of blocking its own communication channels.
To use that, resistance need only to drive a little bit away from the epicenter of the jammaing and as soon as within reach of 1 single out of the many mesh boxes, can upload the news/video for the world to see. If the "temporary distributed cloud caching" is implemented, it would even not be required that an uplink is available exactly at that moment, the mesh could push the data further later on, or the data could be downloaded from the cloud by other resistant with better network access).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
...against their rightful, God-given King, well over two hundred years ago.
Bantering about the French and legitimacy in the eighteenth century has absolutely no relevance on potential US/European intervention in Libya and legitimacy today, period.
Quickly! Someone compile a report on how much oil Libya has so they can present a compelling case to the US Government to intervene!
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
The current situation is quite different from rule of Saint Ronald Reagan, able knight of the Lord, who promptly ordered the 6th Fleet's fighter jets to down libyan MiGs and Sukhois in the mid-1980s. In 2011 the US military should destroy libyan air force bases and arms depots to end the mercenary's bloodshed and a no-fly zone should be laid over Lybia to prevent bombing of the civilians. Gadhafi and son should be tried in Nurenberg and hanged in public, then cremated and ashes dispersed at location unknown.
And yet Wikileaks posted that some countries wanted the US to solve their Iranian problem.
the Arab League.
...
oh, right; never mind.
Who sold him all these weapons? I bet the UK, America, Russia and a lot more people are responsible for supplying powerful military weapons to an evil tyrant that refuses to share the wealth of the country? The greedy bastards that deal with this type of tyrant have no morals. But if it wasn't them, it would be someone else right?
I just hope there is some kind of judgment and retrobution for these people.
Hmm, a crisis point emerges in Libya at a specified date and time. Who's to say Dr. Brown isn't involved already?
Dear Momomar G.
You cross dressing cutie, you had quite a rule and are about to go out with a Mussolini bang bigger than a bunker buster coming through your front door.
So here's a commemorative Ronald Reagan T-shirt and we just wanna say.......Bob, hit it.
Thaaaaaaaanks for the memoriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies............
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
How could internet-type connectivity be kept limping along in the event of jamming and POTS going out? Packet radio? ZigBee? Wireless community network and pringles cans? Something on Android?
Alternatives don't sound good because you need to get a signal out. You need external help.
It seems these countries don't have good amateur radio communities - one option - but even if they had it would likely not help. The article talks of the army confiscating equipment. In the UK the address of every amateur operator is known so if the UK wanted to close down amateur operations as it did in the big wars then it's no problem. Amateurs would have to hide equipment and make sure they're not caught using it - quite hard to achieve against an army who'd be listening out and homing in on transmissions and likely controlling movements of people.
you Don't think things are being done?
Clearly the best solution is to find the jamming signal transmitters and take them out.
That shouldn't require much more than a bit of triangulation and some explosive. We know the rebels have access to to the latter so what are they waiting for?
If someone should be stupid enough to block their path just use some of the explosive on them first.
Also, be sure to make a list of those actively protecting Gaddafi and his regime; they need to to be prosecuted when the revolution is over, and if found guilty punished severely, preferably by execution. We don't want them planning a counter revolution...
I don't remember where I heard this, or the exact quote, but it was something like "The only true freedom is one that you earn by yourself." It sucks for the people and families that die in the process, no doubt. I don't think the US would be so proud of breaking away from the UK if, say, France came in and did all the heavy lifting. As much as I would like to help oppressed peoples, you're right, "helping" them would eventually backfire.
Find the physical jammers, hit radio shack, and take'em out: http://www.amazing1.com/emp.htm
Solution: low flight launches of ARAMS to silence the jammers. It is about time somebody stepped up to help Libyans get, um, liberated.
Who sold him all these weapons?
Looking at equipment list on Wikipedia, it would seem that it's mainly Soviet in origin (though post-Soviet Russia did partake in modernization programs), though there are a few pieces from France, Italy, Belgium and Brazil. I don't think US had the time to supplied any, as until very recently Gaddafi was their sworn enemy.
Because the F-111s are no longer flying, for one. US retired them 14 years ago, says the Wikipedia article.
I'm not sure I believe this, I'm sure in 1985 you could buy plutonium at any corner drug store.
+1 Disagree
Vast areas of europe.. "Hey USA! Libya's disrupting communications of the 'coalition of the willing' and I'll bet that some are NATO members to boot! What're you gonna do? complain? Bawk Bawk Baaawk!"
Ham Radios nearly always work; and if voice is blocked Morse code hardly ever is.
And with Morse much lower amplification is needed.
It's not pictures unless you use Morse in order to send pictures--fairly easy at least theoretically as you just use binary.
wow very big influence on politics and other fast hopefully improved