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Can the Atrix 4G Really Become Your Next PC?

GMGruman writes "The Motorola Atrix 4G got a lot of attention at CES because of its ability to dock to a monitor, keyboard, and mouse and run the full desktop Firefox browser in addition to its Android apps. Now that it is shipping, I took the Atrix 4G and its Multimedia Dock and related peripherals out this week for a test-drive to see if delivers on this 'post-PC' promise. The verdict: It's a good first half-step toward mobile devices being your primary computer. The end of the Windows hegemony is in sight."

297 comments

  1. single page link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:single page link... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Who authorized this story? Why wasn't I notified that there was going to be a pro-Android story on the front page?

      Somebody get the Apple Nation on the line. We need some trolls here, STAT! Go! Go! Go! We're bleeding here, people!

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:single page link... by bemymonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No point, the author is obviously an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about.

      "When you dock the Atrix, the Firefox browser and other dock-provided services aren't running from the Atrix but instead from a stripped-down Linux PC inside the dock. A real post-PC device would run everything from the smartphone or tablet, and it would use the dock to add more processing or take advantage of peripherals."

      The stripped down Linuxy interface might make it seem that way, but that's not really the case...

      "Running the Atrix's native Android apps on the big screen proved disappointing. All you get is a blown-up version of the Atrix's screen in a window. Android apps such as Quickoffice don't adjust to take advantage of the bigger screen as you would expect -- unlike many iOS apps when run on an iPad [12] instead of an iPhone [13]. For the "lite" PC concept to work, native Android apps will have to take advantage of the larger screen, keyboard, and mouse. Otherwise, you're paying essentially just to have a desktop browser run off your smartphone."

      Because QuickOffice and all the other Android apps were surely designed with desktop use in mind, sure... it's not like the Atrix is the first device of its kind and software makers would need a little time to catch up, huh? Not to mention that the Android apps being shown on the screen are shown by way of simple screencasting - no point in doing anything else as the touch interface isn't there anyway.

      Sounds like this guy didn't really do much research before buying. All the stuff in the article was pretty much in, well, any normal review of the Atrix. I was hoping for a little more perspective as to installing a more full featured Linux ARM build as the Webtop... which is pretty much the only way I could imagine using the Atrix as a PC. Although come to think of it, custom software on a Motorola device is very unlikely... I'm sure they've locked down and encrypted the webtop in some way as well.

    3. Re:single page link... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      Aren't they all out sleeping outside of consumer electronics stores across the world due to it supposedly being iPad II release day?

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    4. Re:single page link... by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

      Who can sleep?!?!

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    5. Re:single page link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm. If only you could put maemo or meego on the atrix instead of android.

    6. Re:single page link... by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      Well now to be honest, we don't need trolls here, we've got YOU!

      Could you be any more paranoid? A story that doesn't mention Apple and you still find a way to turn it against Apple? Congratulations, you're the new fashionista, you're one of the mindless blind Apple haters that posts just to show everyone how cool you are because you hate Apple. Way to be one of the herd!

    7. Re:single page link... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Exactly. he also assumes that most people will gladly use google apps. Most dont. I use google apps for a few tasks, but it's a lot more wonky than OO.o compared to MS office. Plus the storage in the device is a joke. I know a LOT pf people that have 80gigs of video, music and other files... photos are taking up a lot of space because normal people don't use the craptastic phone camera for their normal camera, so most photos are a decent 10 megapixel in size. So until they get 250gigs of space in this phone it's a joke to think it will replace even a netbook. And this is assuming the person does not play any games. Sorry but phone games are junk compared to the full fledged PC or Xbox360 games.

      They claimed the iPad would replace the laptop that many carry around. Several tech "journalists" tried and failed miserably as the tiny space, lack of real word processing, and the fact the device was NOT DESIGNED to be a laptop all made it fail. I cant imaging typing a 300 word article let alone a nice 1200 word piece on a tiny crappy bluetooth keyboard. Decent laptop keyboards are bad enough (what moron though that square chicklet keys are a good idea again?) I prefer to write on a real keyboard not a fisher price toy.

      It's just like the other hardware reviews out there, I can tell that 5 out 7 reviews have not even take the device out of the box as they simply spew the same stuff the other 4 did.

      This is nothing but speculative hype trying to get a writer that really has no clue some facetime with the readership.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    8. Re:single page link... by tyger_purr · · Score: 1

      The iPad 2 is being anounced, not released.

    9. Re:single page link... by sglewis100 · · Score: 1

      Who authorized this story? Why wasn't I notified that there was going to be a pro-Android story on the front page?

      Somebody get the Apple Nation on the line. We need some trolls here, STAT! Go! Go! Go! We're bleeding here, people!

      Your +5 Funny is well deserved, but on the off chance someone is reading that without seeing the joke, thinking there's an actual pro-Android story, the story actually states:

      1) The hardware is not cheap.
      2) Getting the Atrix into the dock was a little tricky, as you have to align both the Mini HDMI and Micro USB ports on the Atrix to the connectors on the dock.
      3) You enable Bluetooth and manage the pairing in the Settings app on the Atrix. I suggest you do so before you dock it, as the Atrix is hard to use once docked, given the odd angle at which it sits -- it's definitely the wrong position and height for using touch gestures.
      4) Connecting the Bluetooth devices was not simple. The keyboard connected and paired easily, but it took a half-dozen attempts to get the mouse to do so.
      5) Once you've made all the connections, the Atrix should appear on your screen in a few moments -- but it didn't always. I sometimes had to unplug and replug the HDMI cable, and occasionally undock and redock the Atrix itself.
      6) The Atrix dock's screen -- which has one window that mirrors the Atrix's display and a second that runs Firefox -- stretched to the entire width of my flat-screen TV, distorting its width. That meant the mouse location didn't match the actual locations of onscreen elements.
      7) Running the Atrix's native Android apps on the big screen proved disappointing. All you get is a blown-up version of the Atrix's screen in a window.
      8) Beyond running Firefox and blown-up versions of your Android apps, as well as playing media from your Atrix smartphone, there's little else you can do with the docked Atrix.

      And on a side note: The cost of making your Atrix into a docked PC for such usage is actually not bad: At $400, the Lapdock is less than a netbook, and the $200 Multimedia Dock is even cheaper if you already have the other peripherals and don't need to travel.

      WHAT?! I'm not saying there aren't $500 NetBooks, but there are tons of $250 netbooks that function easily as well as this.

      Even the article summary is horrible: "The verdict: It's a good first half-step toward mobile devices being your primary computer." That's only true if the half-step is a half-step towards a hundred yard dash. I must have missed the part of this article where this seems in any way attractive as a device.

    10. Re:single page link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Single page link...

      http://www.infoworld.com/print/152843

      The insuperable barrier for many of us towards all handheld devices is the size of the keyboard. For serious work they just won't do.

        I publish books and offer typesetting/indexing sevices on my two websites, http://wexfordpress.com and http://wexfordpress.net. Yes I offer e-books and no I don't use Slashdot. My non-fiction offerings include only pdf e-books. Just as I won't use a crppled keyboard I won't offer books in a crippled format. I suppose both
      the teeny keyboards and the dumbed down formats (Epub and Kindle) are signs of the times. Frankly I would rather offer an html file for pay on one of my websites. When Slashdot or similar sites will take html as input I might be interested.

      John Culleton
      wexfordpress.net

    11. Re:single page link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More likely they are all laying in bed, spooning their gay lovers after a night of getting cock in the ass.

    12. Re:single page link... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Congratulations, you're the new fashionista, you're one of the mindless blind Apple haters that posts just to show everyone how cool you are because you hate Apple.

      I'm not an Apple hater, I'm an Apple user.

      My comment is not about Apple at all. It's about the certainty that any story about Android will spawn dozens of comments about Apple.

      You've got to be a little more discerning, friend.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    13. Re:single page link... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I agree with everything you say. My tongue-in-cheek comment was only about the fact that any story on Slashdot that mentions Android will bring out people "defending" Apple, no matter whether the Android story is good, bad or indifferent.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:single page link... by syockit · · Score: 1

      .. photos are taking up a lot of space because normal people don't use the craptastic phone camera for their normal camera, so most photos are a decent 10 megapixel in size.

      Yeah. it makes me wonder: just how many of those 10 megapixel ever get used? I see that most cameras nowadays default to using the best resolution it can give, and people who know nothing about their own gadgets and care only to take pictures, will gobble up all the space on the storage card, then upload it to Facebook, watches as the upload progresses slowly due to the unnecessarily large image size, only to have a scaled down image (Facebook maximum seems to be 720 px width/height) shown on the gallery. While it is possible for others to download the high resolution version, almost no one cares to, so it's wastage on the user side (storage space, upload time), and the server side (also storage, and processing)

      --
      Democracy is for the people; you only vote once per season and we'll do the rest of the work for you don't have to.
    15. Re:single page link... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      Thanks, but don't givvashit either way.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  2. Ahaha. Atrix next PC. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very funny you guys. You, guys, very funny.

    Wait.

    Is not joke.

    Not amused.

    1. Re:Ahaha. Atrix next PC. by Snaller · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh Bill, get a sense of humor.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    2. Re:Ahaha. Atrix next PC. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I laughed too. Will this thing run my audio/video/photo editing software? How about my 3D modeler or video game SDK? Will it run all of the applications and games that I use on a daily basis?

      If the answer is anything but "yes", then this thing is already a failure.

    3. Re:Ahaha. Atrix next PC. by delinear · · Score: 1

      Just because it doesn't suit your needs, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's a "failure". I have a beefy desktop machine for doing image manipulation and video encoding, but most of my computing time at home is spent using my little ultraportable laptop for exactly the kind of tasks this device is optimised for. I would guess in the average home this is going to be closer to optimal than an over specified power PC. How close to optimal it actually is will determine whether it's a failure or not, but it's certainly an interesting idea and almost certainly the way things will go in the future.

    4. Re:Ahaha. Atrix next PC. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Why not?

      Well I could understand not an Atrix specifically, but I'd have no problem running something similar.

      Say I have a smartphone with 1GB or more of RAM, dual 1.5Ghz cores, 32GB+ of storage, running MeeGo with the stock UI. Then I can dock it with a laptop body, where it closes the MeeGo UI and starts my desktop of choice (to save resources though, I'd go with LXDE or XFCE - if resources are plentiful enough, I could run the desktop UI in a Xephyr window on top of MeeGo's UI, like I do now with LXDE on a Debian chroot on Maemo). I'd be sacrificing performance (down to netbook levels) for portability but it's a pretty decent setup that can do most tasks - I could forget about running high-end games or hardware-emulation virtual machines, and with limited RAM I'd have to watch how many Firefox tabs I open, but it would do everyday tasks just fine - including anything that requires the hardware capabilities of a laptop (working with CDs, plugging into wired networks, using USB devices, etc).

      In fact I expect my next laptop will be something like this.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    5. Re:Ahaha. Atrix next PC. by sexconker · · Score: 0

      Just because it doesn't suit your needs, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's a "failure". I have a beefy desktop machine for doing image manipulation and video encoding, but most of my computing time at home is spent using my little ultraportable laptop for exactly the kind of tasks this device is optimised for. I would guess in the average home this is going to be closer to optimal than an over specified power PC. How close to optimal it actually is will determine whether it's a failure or not, but it's certainly an interesting idea and almost certainly the way things will go in the future.

      Horse.
      Shit.

      Most of your IDLE time is spent on some dumbtop.
      Most of your computing time is spent on a proper computer with a proper keyboard and a proper mouse and a proper display and proper horsepower.

    6. Re:Ahaha. Atrix next PC. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can do all of the same things with a Linux desktop, so why haven't those caught on? Oh right, because the software people want is on Windows. The Atrix will fail for the exact same reasons.

  3. Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by sethstorm · · Score: 2, Funny

    If it was done with something a bit more open than Android, it might have a shot at replacing netbooks.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Android's more open than most other Phone OS's. Given it's capabilities, I'm sure someone will hack it to run full-fledged desktop linux eventually.

    2. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by akirapill · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah. I forgot that 'Openness' is what makes or breaks products in the marketplace.

    3. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah I know. Being able to download the kernel, driver, and Android sources directly from Motorola, the maker of my Droid phone, is so prohibitive. Microsoft is way better.

      Maybe you were looking for another word: like powerful, or unencumbered.

    4. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by dbcad7 · · Score: 1

      For "apps" you have Android, and Web based.. Firefox is running through Linux.. I am certain, that someone will find some ways to take advantage and get access to running Linux apps as well.. If your point is running Widows apps.. can be done.. other than that, I guess maybe you should design your open platform.. whatever it is that you have in mind.

      --
      waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
    5. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Interesting
      $400 for a netbook that doesn't run windows. Hell, doesn't even run when it's not hooked up to your phone. You can buy a netbook running windows 7 (or a full linux distro of choice) for under $300.

      How about something more original, like docking into a tablet?

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    6. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by monkyyy · · Score: 0

      it tends to for geek targeted products

      --
      warning pointless sig
    7. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is my exact problem with Tablets and smartphones. Sure things will get cheaper eventually, and you'll be able to use these mobile devices as your primary computer, but it just isn't there yet. You can get a much more capable laptop that can dual boot a full windows / Linux, desktop, most of them with the power to run Windows and run Linux in a VM for less than the price of most tablets, or even a lot of smart phones on the market. Basically you end up paying quite a bit for something that only does half the job.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    8. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it tends to for geek targeted products

      I weep for the 1% market. We never get what we want (at a price we can afford). Only the cool kids decide what crap becomes cheap.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    9. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by jedidiah · · Score: 0

      > Oh yeah. I forgot that 'Openness' is what makes or breaks products in the marketplace.

      The market for the last 50 years has been dominated by devices that weren't intentionally crippled by their vendors.

      This isn't about "radical political ideology". This is about just getting stuff done.

      In this case, someone managed to lower the bar even further in terms of what "openness" means such that even Microsoft can stumble over it.

      "I can run what I want" versus "I can recompile anything".

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Rennt · · Score: 1

      You can fetch the source from a git repository, compile it, flash it to your device and have a complete working OS stack. The majority of the software is OSI approved. How much more open do you want?

    11. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Kenshin · · Score: 1

      The market for the last 50 years has been dominated by devices that weren't intentionally crippled by their vendors.

      There's lots of markets. Which market, exactly, do you speak of?

      --

      Does it make you happy you're so strange?

    12. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh yeah. I forgot that 'Openness' is what makes or breaks products in the marketplace.

      Let's see, open vs. closed:

      Internet vs. AOL
      CD vs. minidisc
      Linux vs. UNIX
      gzip/lzma/bzip2 vs. bzip
      OpenSSH vs. SSH
      OpenSSL vs. anything closed
      AES vs. anything closed
      Apache vs. IIS

      Yup, that sounds about right.

      Almost everything you use won because it's open, you just don't notice it anymore because it won so long ago that it just seems like part of the scenery now. DNS, DHCP, TCP/IP, HTTP, HTML, C++, Kerberos, LDAP, 802.3, 802.11, USB, the BSD sockets API, etc. etc. All things equal, customers prefer open to closed. Which means that closed is a state that can only exist prior to an open competitor reaching compatibility and substantial feature parity with the leading closed alternative, at which point customers choose the open alternative.

      The only way closed is a long-term condition is when it is propped up by a monopoly, a cartel or a government.

    13. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by mlts · · Score: 1

      There is one exception, and I am assuming the devil's advocate role here:

      Microsoft Exchange. It is not an open source product, but finding a company that is not dependent on Exchange (especially if they have to deal with PCI/DSS2, SOX, HIPAA, FERPA, or other regs) is a rare exception.

      Of course, Google and IBM are exceptions, but pretty much Exchange is the only game in town if one wants to get past basic E-mail.

    14. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by peragrin · · Score: 1

      and your reason why tablets have taken this long to work into the market place and why ever version up until now has sucked.

      You can't imagine your way out of a paper bag.

      a tablet will never replace your desktop it isn't meant to. if you think it will your wrong. It is a complement. a secondary or tertiary device. do you have one sheet of paper one pencil and one ruler to work with? Or do you have multiple pens/ pencils, dozens of sheets of paper, rulers, compasses, squares, scissors tape, paper clips, etc.

      a tablet isn't going to be your only computer.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    15. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by mlts · · Score: 1

      Wake me up when Motorola gives more than the middle finger to modders. Having a ROM that has to run by kexec(), after modders spend hundreds of man hours defanging the device of eFuses and other crap shows Moto isn't really interested in making open devices.

      I really wish Motorola would stop being hostile to modders. Even if they offered a modder-friendly device for a little bit more, that would be a faire compromise.

    16. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's unfortunate for us but there'll always be a demand for locked phones. Services like Netflix will never officially appear on a device which is completely open to modification.

    17. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by hawguy · · Score: 1

      It's unfortunate for us but there'll always be a demand for locked phones. Services like Netflix will never officially appear on a device which is completely open to modification.

      And there's the whole corporate market -- many corporations have a legal mendate (or just corporate policy) to keep email secure and the only devices they can allow to connect to their mail servers on ones that they can enforce a password lock policy that allows remote wipe and auto-wipe after a number of unlock fails.

      A rooted phone can allow the user to violate these policies.

    18. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Having used Maemo for the last year, I think that would be awesome with a full sized keyboard and screen. Or Meego i guess (haven't used it). I had a play with LXDE on my n900 and apart from the processor being to slow for it to be practical, it showed some promise. The new generation of ARM chips would cope a lot better, methinks.

      While Android is great for phones/tablets, I kind of think trying to run it as a desktop is a bit square peg meets round hole.

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    19. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      There is one exception

      There is considerably more than one exception - MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Photoshop, Windows, OS X... On and on.

    20. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by mlts · · Score: 1

      Virtually all Android phones can be rooted. However, there is a difference between a "#" prompt and being able to flash your own ROM freely without needing to kexec() from a signed kernel.

      The best compromise would be something VMWare showed a few months ago -- keeping the business data in a VM, while the user could do what they wanted with the real phone. Of course, someone can crack this, but someone will end up rooting phones, so might as well have the user experience more tolerable with a device.

    21. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Uhhh...Windows vs. Linux anyone?

    22. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by the+linux+geek · · Score: 1

      By most phone OS's, you mean the trendy ones with all the press? Maemo, Meego, Symbian, and webOS are plenty open.

    23. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      You can't imagine your way out of a paper bag.

      ...

      a tablet isn't going to be your only computer.

      Wow! The contradiction is mind boggling!

      Can't you imagine a future where tablets are powerful enough to be many people's only computer?

    24. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      I'll agree except that you can run at least a Citrix receiver and access your virtual desktop with full desktop capabilities which is pretty appealing at least from my perspective. The only trick to VPN or some sort of trusted authentication system to avoid needing VPN software on the phone. I did this when the owner of the company I work for got frustrated he could never print from his iPad. Gave him his virtual desktop and he hasn't looked back.

    25. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think many corporations care if a device can be rooted, as long as it's not the standard or supported behavior. After all, CSS and AACS (HDCP) were cracked but movie studios never stopped using them. iOS can be rooted but there's no outcry about it. Microsoft Windows is the biggest facilitator to pirating content.

      What you won't see is companies targeting a product which forgoes all attempts at DRM or security. It doesn't have to be effective, it just has to be present.

    26. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by floop · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Exchange started out not support SMTP or even TCP out of the box. You had to buy a special enabler that came on a separate floppy. Exchange had it's own crappy protocol but now supports IMAP4, POP3, LDAP, NNTP and IRC (go figure). It used to have WebDAV but now a soap api. NTLM became kerberos. AD's LDAP started with their own schema but now includes iNetOrg. IE used to suck but now, not as much. Sony memsticks lost to MMC All cell phones will one day just use a regular USB cable

    27. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Flyerman · · Score: 1

      Perhaps "more phone's OS's" is the proper way to phrase it.

    28. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows vs. Linux.

      No, wait...

    29. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

      You are missing the point. No mobile browser trying to cope with a huge (by phone standards) screen, regular Firefox. Give folks some time to hack and even if Moto doesn't ship it out of the box you will have Openoffice.org (or whatever fork ends up shipping) and not some pocket mostly view only app that can muddle through a Word doc. Adobe's normal desktop Reader is only a recompile away, enough users holler and it will turn up. And so on. Moto was afraid to just turn loose a normal Linux desktop on the docked head (Display/keyboard/pointer) but unless it flops so fast the hackers don't get a chance to fix that mistake in design, a full Linux desktop will soon be available. And then just pop it out of the dock and take it with you as a phone. And then someone will provide more merge features to let you get at the Linux desktop on the phone display.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    30. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by unrtst · · Score: 1

      I once thought the same thing of laptops.

    31. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maemo or Meego

    32. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Motorola Xoom is fully unlockable with no dirty tricks. But then it's a "Google experience device", so Moto was really only responsible for hardware there.

    33. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by afidel · · Score: 1

      Uh X.400 wasn't some weird protocol MS invented, it's an ISO standard.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    34. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is considerably more than one exception - MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Photoshop, Windows, OS X... On and on.

      Sure, there are exceptions, but are they really exceptions or did open just not win yet?

      There was a time when AOL was the most popular ISP. There was a time when the main alternative to proprietary UNIX for a server OS was Novell Netware.

      And certain markets take longer. Software which is very specialized in particular, so Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. But it's only because the open alternative correspondingly attracts fewer developers and therefore takes longer to reach feature parity. Right now GIMP isn't on par with Photoshop. But it's not like Photoshop from 2011 is light years ahead of Photoshop from 2006. Can you say GIMP won't have substantially caught up in five years? In ten years? And can you imagine anyone paying four figures for Photoshop once it has?

      Likewise, it's no surprise that more than half the software titles people are quoting at me are from Microsoft. Yes, Exchange, Office, Windows, these are still very popular. But it's not especially because they're great stuff that everybody loves, is it? It's because Microsoft has a dominant market position and long history of playing dirty. You can read the last line in my post above -- monopolies can keep things closed. Although even there, Microsoft is in a bit of a precarious position, because they don't have an external monopoly propping them up from the outside, they only have two internal ones that buttress each other. Which puts them in a bit of a spot if one or the other is ever dethroned -- you don't need Windows in order to run Office if you don't need Office, and conversely if Windows starts to decline then allowing Office to run on the new dominant platform will hasten Windows' demise, but refusing to will sink Office along with it.

      Which pretty much leaves OS X...which I'm not sure makes a very good counterexample. It only has 10% market share in a market dominated by Microsoft, and Microsoft is uncharacteristically friendly to it (e.g. Office runs on it), so it seems to be in a fairly unrepresentative class. It'll be interesting to see what happens to it if Microsoft is ultimately dethroned, actually.

    35. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by HappyPsycho · · Score: 1

      I think part of the point here is that the systems mentioned are still in the state where the closest OSS competitor hasn't closed the feature / compatibility gap.

      2 points that I'm sure make the vendors of the above worry about:

      - Feature bloat / features people care about: I'm sure we've all heard the saying "Why should I upgrade? What benefits would I get?" and had to try to convince them that the upgrade brings some obscure new feature and maybe some extra security / speed (this is pretty much the only reasons that most users will respond to). Both MS Office and Windows itself have been victims of this (XP is still holding out strong among windows users). It unfortunately means that the feature set a competitor needs to duplicate is a small subset of the software's full capabilities, all they have to do is make it faster and the closed vendor loses out on a decent chunk of their customer base which will reduce their ability to add new features to stay ahead and I think you can see the cycle that will ensue.

      - Do I need the software on my PC even matter? a.k.a. cloud services. Especially in the OS arena this is becoming a bigger threat,the reason for this is more apps are becoming web based, slowly making the client's OS matter even less. As the app makers try to reach the largest possible market they will tend to go with web based solutions (to become OS / device independent, especially true given the capabilities of smartphones) reducing the number of desktop applications the user needs, once again its a cycle that keeps feeding itself.

      While I agree the above mentioned software have held on for quite a long time, "long-term" is a relative term. How long it takes to unseat them might actually take years or maybe decades (one of the simpler reasons for such a long wait is patents) but the great-grand parent's comment still holds, "Which means that closed is a state that can only exist prior to an open competitor reaching compatibility and substantial feature parity with the leading closed alternative, at which point customers choose the open alternative."

    36. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by AuMatar · · Score: 2

      Symbian open? You realise you have to pay to get access to half the SDKs, right?

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    37. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Why would you want access to Motorola's crappy sources?

      The problem with Motorola devices and their locked down bootloaders is that you can't get RID of Motorola's software and replace it with something decent (AOSP or CyanogenMod, for instance)...

    38. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by damaged_sectors · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah. I forgot that 'Openness' is what makes or breaks products in the marketplace.

      Let's see, open vs. closed:

      Internet vs. AOL CD vs. minidisc Linux vs. UNIX gzip/lzma/bzip2 vs. bzip OpenSSH vs. SSH OpenSSL vs. anything closed AES vs. anything closed Apache vs. IIS

      Yup, that sounds about right.

      Almost everything you use won because it's open, you just don't notice it anymore because it won so long ago that it just seems like part of the scenery now. DNS, DHCP, TCP/IP, HTTP, HTML, C++, Kerberos, LDAP, 802.3, 802.11, USB, the BSD sockets API, etc. etc. All things equal, customers prefer open to closed. Which means that closed is a state that can only exist prior to an open competitor reaching compatibility and substantial feature parity with the leading closed alternative, at which point customers choose the open alternative.

      The only way closed is a long-term condition is when it is propped up by a monopoly, a cartel or a government.

      Or to put it in a non-computer operating system/software way - he who makes that which allows the most other companies to add to - wins. The more third-party choices, the more market support/choice. And every time some lawyer/marketer says "lock that down and make a killing" - the lawyer/marketer makes a killing, the company just tends to take a dive (eventually). Oh sure, there's plenty of people who'll tell me Microsoft is the exception to the rule - what's the share price lately? In fact there's one in the following post - poor fool, obviously hasn't heard of webmail.

    39. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by damaged_sectors · · Score: 0

      Shhh... You don;t want to show reality to a Freetard, he may become enraged and charge at you!

      How's your Microsoft shares doing? My IBM shares are just OK - same as they have been for the last fifty years.

      You've spent your first week out of grade school trolling on Slashdot - such a dedicated fanboi is clearly you're destined for greater things, like a big career playing video games and testing pr0n - or maybe you could cash in big as a spelling nazi,

      I'll check back when you've reach puberty and see what other insights into industry you've got.

    40. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by msclrhd · · Score: 1

      That's because now laptops are as powerful as desktops, but are smaller, lighter and more portable. You may still need a desktop to run your high-end gaming system for example. But now there is a choice. When tablets and other devices become as powerful as the laptops then they might supplant them, but at the moment they complement.

      Portable Media Players, e-book readers, cameras (e.g. digital SLRs), games consoles, PVRs, mobile phones, tablets, desktops, laptops, and other devices have different markets as they are specialised to a specific set of needs and capabilities.

    41. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 2

      one of the simpler reasons for such a long wait is patents

      I agree with most of what you wrote, but I don't think this is really true. The trouble with software patents is that they're so broken that you can't even use them as designed.

      I mean you go through all the effort of hiring a bunch of patent lawyers at five hundred dollars an hour, who in turn consume the time of your engineers that they could have spent engineering stuff but instead have to disclose their inventions to the lawyers. Then the lawyers spend (this is not an exaggeration) three years arguing with the patent office about whether you should get the patent, again at five hundred bucks an hour. Finally you get your patent.

      Then you repeat the process a thousand times every year. Then you hire a bunch of different lawyers to spend another three years negotiating cross-licenses with other companies where your hard-earned patents mostly go to cancel out theirs.

      And therein lies the rub. You've got your whiz bang patent which covers your flagship software product and you want to stop the guy who is making some free app that implements your great feature. The trouble is, that app is now part of the business model of various other huge software companies, and if you try to stop the app using any of your patents then that company (or companies) will show up at your door with a list as long as your arm of their patents which your flagship product is infringing and politely request that you Back Off.

      At best you can sell the patent to a patent troll who you hope will go and molest your competitor, but if the competitor has deep pockets then all you accomplish is to shovel some of your competitor's money into the pockets of a patent troll -- which makes the troll stronger and as likely as not to come after you next time. Conversely, if the competitor has no money then the patent troll has no real incentive to go after them.

      So yeah, software patents. They should get rid of them.

    42. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get that logic gap so tantalizingly narrow that a lot of people probably come away from your post feeling like you actually proved your opinion is objective reality. Kudos.

    43. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's necessary if you do any driver development on locked phones.

      It's necessary for porting drivers to a newer kernel release.

      It's helpful if you want to rebuild the kernel without troubleshooting issues brought on by an untested release.

      It's helpful even on locked phones if you want to rebuild Android without spending weeks getting AOSP to build and work correctly.

    44. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by StikyPad · · Score: 2

      iOS.

    45. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Alanis+Morissette · · Score: 1

      HTML vs. Flash

    46. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by SwedishPenguin · · Score: 1

      I would like a MeeGo phone that doubles as a portable PC. Unlike Android it's got a full standard GNU/Linux stack, including an X-server.

    47. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by migla · · Score: 1

      How about something more original, like docking into a tablet?

      Here you go: https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/smartbook.htm

      It's a modular netbook, tablet, mobile internet device (like a phone, but without phone capabilities, ie. no 3G, only wifi).' Runs Android and ubuntu and other OS:es.

      It only has a previous generation (cortex-A8) processor, though...

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    48. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      you're not thinking this through correctly - $400 for netbook that doesn't run Windows and all you can think about is how much it costs you. No-one spares a thought for the poor manufacturers who now get to charge you more and not pay the windows tax. After all the years of wafer-thin margins, they finally get products that sell and can give them a decent profitable return, and you just sit there complaining. :)

      In other words, expect these things to be pushed far more than cheapo Windows laptops. The manufacturers want, really want, to sell you these things.

    49. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by m50d · · Score: 2

      Ten years ago I was saying the same thing about people who bought laptops.

      --
      I am trolling
    50. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting to note that in most cases the company behind the closed model didn't just rely on market trends. MS illegally leveraged a monopoly position to ensure its products became entrenched. Apple controlled the hardware which let them have much more control over the software. In the case of Photoshop I'd say this comes back more to the feature parity issue - there was never an open source alternative that could match PS' full range of features and this is what let it gain such traction in the business world that it's now pretty unassailable unless you have several million to spend on developing something that comes close.

    51. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      This model has been tried before. Anyone remember the various Windows CE machines that HP and Compaq released through the years? I remember when the "full size" Windows CE 3.0 mini-notebooks like the Compaq Aero 8000 came out (and seem to be making a resurgence at the moment as cheapo netbooks running CE 6)? They flopped because they weren't much cheaper then a laptop and didn't run a full version of Windows.

    52. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by HappyPsycho · · Score: 1

      I would love to, however while it exists and courts uphold them it still stands in the way of a competitor duplicating the feature set of a piece of software, irregardless of open / closed status. So unfortunately it is one of the reasons open system will always lag behind closed system unless some cheap / free form of licensing exists (most closed competitors can palm off the licensing fee on their user base).

    53. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Be able to fire up an editor, write an application in C, compile it and link it, and deploy onto the device without having to installs reams of Java crap? Like every desktop OS out there.

      Android is hideous to develop for compared to normal Linux machines because of the ugly, nonstandard toolchain and dependency on the java behemoth.

    54. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      Well if they were making a phone for just 1% of the market which is comprised of geeks then you'd have a point. But then again if they were stupid enough to target the 1% rather than the 99% then I wouldn't buy their phone anyway because I wouldn't consider them very smart.

    55. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by inglorion_on_the_net · · Score: 1

      Symbian open? You realise you have to pay to get access to half the SDKs, right?

      I don't know if the parent did, but I didn't. Thanks for pointing that out. Are they still keeping that up these days? I thought they had open sourced Symbian.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    56. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by moonbender · · Score: 1

      You mean like Office Open XML aka ISO/IEC 29500? ;)

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    57. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Enigma23 · · Score: 1

      $400 for a netbook that doesn't run windows. Hell, doesn't even run when it's not hooked up to your phone. You can buy a netbook running windows 7 (or a full linux distro of choice) for under $300.

      You can buy netbooks for under £/$200-250 these days, some with Win XP, but more running a Linux variant of some sort. I use an Asus EeePC 1000 running Easy Peasy 1.5, which is exactly what I need - all I use it for is light web browsing (Opera, sometimes Firefox for less W3C compliant web content), listening to music (hello Banshee), writing documents and the odd bit of spreadsheeting (OpenOffice). Simples!

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une .sig
    58. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      The market for the last 50 years has been dominated by devices that weren't intentionally crippled by their vendors.

      And I really hope that's not changing, because since the iPhone came out, things have been different :-(

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    59. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Out of the last 10 Fortune 100 companies I worked for 6 of them did not use Exchange. Now in a service role, I find that Exchange is still not "defacto standard" but Lotus Notes and good old open source IMAP is still used heavily in big corperations.

      You need to get out more in the IT world, maybe all the tiny companies that use Microsoft Server SBE and cant afford a real IT staff all use exchange, but the big guys dont.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    60. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Linux owns the server market, on the internet they decimate Windows hard.

      On the desktop you are comparing a high end Designed for server use operating system to a consumer desktop operating system designed to NOT be a server.

      Let me guess, you also will claim that Chevy cars are a success compared to semi trucks, because not everyone drives a semi truck.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    61. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by AJH16 · · Score: 2

      Not to nag, but Photoshop is only 3 figures (and low 3 figures at that for upgrades) and has advanced substantially since 2006. (64 bit support, 3d object painting, autofill generation, gpu utilization, numerous performance enhancements just to name a few) Enough so that even an upgrade from CS4 to CS5 is extremely tempting despite my normal rule of only upgrading every other version. Even the elements version of Photoshop which is very cheap is close to GIMP. I don't see GIMP catching up with Photoshop anytime soon. It would be great if they did, and I'd consider switching if they can also offer open source alternatives to the rest of the Master Collection, but I don't foresee that all happening in the next 20 years unless the culture around open source software changes substantially.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    62. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by inglorion_on_the_net · · Score: 1

      Actually, I am not sure if Microsoft Exchange is an exception to the rule that the world prefers open over closed.

      First of all, if you look at Exchange, it implements many open standards. It is doubtful that it would have succeeded if it hadn't. In e-mail, for example, a lot of proprietary protocols have fallen by the wayside, with the open SMTP becoming the worldwide standard.

      Secondly, a lot of organizations have bumped into artificial limitations in Microsoft Exchange and would have preferred to go with a solution that better aligned with their needs had they been aware of one. Many alternatives have sprung up over the years, and it seems to me that it only a matter of time until Exchange won't seem to offer much of an advantage anymore. People are already moving away from MS Outlook, which means they won't be able to use some of the features that set Exchange apart from the competition anyway.

      If Exchange is to survive in a world where there is a great diversity on the client side, it must interoperate with a great number of clients. The best way to do so is through an open, or at least published protocol. And lo and behold, since Exchange Server 2007, clients can access the server through Exchange Web Services, a SOAP-based protocol published by Microsoft.

      So, true, Microsoft Exchange is not open source, but it interacts with the world through several open protocols, and, in that sense, has been becoming more and more open throughout its history. With all the protocols published, Exchange+Outlook becomes just one choice among many, and I think that's what really matters. If some organization prefers to run Exchange on their servers and some user preferes to use Outlook, I think they should have that option. As long as the rest of the world can use the software they prefer.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    63. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Windows is closed source, but it allows open development. It's also worth considering that Linux only became easy enough for Average Joes (or even geeks with no previous *nix experience) in the last decade.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    64. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by afidel · · Score: 1

      No, it's a real ISO spec with multiple conforming (well as much as anything can conform to a spec that complex!) implementations from multiple vendors.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    65. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Android's more open than most other Phone OS's.

      But a lot less open than every single PC OS. So it's valid criticism when you're discussing using it as a PC.

      Besides, the Atrix is from Motorola, so expect everything to be locked down to a ridiculous degree. Motorola doesn't make devices for customers to own.

    66. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by mcvos · · Score: 1

      I don't care. I admit that Motorola is technically capable of making very nice hardware, but as long as I regret ever giving them my money, I won't be giving them any more. My next phone will probably be something with Nexus in its name. Or maybe something from HTC.

    67. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by mcvos · · Score: 1

      You can fetch the source from a git repository, compile it, flash it to your device and have a complete working OS stack. The majority of the software is OSI approved. How much more open do you want?

      I'd like it to boot after all that. Though I admit it's not really the OS that's the problem here; it's the manufacturer.

    68. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, the Apple mentality. The possibility that a company does DIFFERENT products for DIFFERENT people doesn't seem to matter for people who follow the "Think Different" slogan.

      Is it smart to have only one product in your portfolio, and make that product cater to 1% of the market? Possibly not. Is it smart to have LOTS of products in your portfolio, ranging from those that target the most ignorant 70% to those that make geek 1% drool? Hell yeah. Notice how Nokia has always sold more phones than Apple, and now only Android sells more than Nokia. What is common between Nokia and the Android market? Users have choice. They can have the best product for their use case, not a generic slab that is exactly the same for everyone. Think about that.

    69. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 1

      comScore: Android surpasses iOS in U.S. market share

      Obviously that is some kind of pro-Android blog. But look at the graph based on data from comScore.

    70. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Clsid · · Score: 1

      I was able to get the SDK for the N97 for free, so I don't know what you are talking about.

    71. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Clsid · · Score: 1

      Open development? Sure they provide the Windows SDK for free, and surely enough you can get gcc or Visual C++ Express to program in C. But try to do a professional application using only the Win32 API and you will spend years and end up with very messy code. Either you have to use Microsoft's MFC or ATL which are not free, or some other open source library like Win32++, SmartWin or wxWindows that are not part of the OS in the first place. Now compare this situation with Linux and Mac OS X. We all know in Linux almost everything is open source so it's a no-brainer there, but in Mac OS X, being commercial, you get Xcode for free and a very cool set of libraries that allows you to develop in a relatively modern programming language like Objective-C without any third-party libraries.

    72. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A big part of the job for a smart phone is that it fits in my pocket. No laptop or desktops can comfortably fit, so they only do half the job as well. I would not really be afraid to take a smartphone to a rowdy party. I'd certainly give serious thought to leaving the Netbook at home.

      Maybe you don't have a true need for "Computer in your pocket". Heck, maybe I don't either. Still, ignoring the size ignores what the product is intended to do.

    73. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Rysc · · Score: 1

      X.400 was the heavyweight, carefully-planned protocol suite for doing all manner of things including email (aka "messaging"). If you're sitting there in the early 90s at Microsoft's offices and someone tells you to build an office messaging platform and you decide to that correctness trumps speed of development and simplicity, then X.400 is an obvious choice.

      The fact that X.400 took forever to get finished and is so complex most people don't understand it means that it never really took off. We see little bits of it in LDAP but otherwise there's really nothing anywhere that uses it or cares at all about it... except that MS used X.400 as the basis for exchange. Eventually they even made it work acceptably well, but meanwhile the internet revolution went from "Are you sure it's really happening?" to "What other networks? You mean, like, a NAT'd LAN?" and compatibility with Unix and its half-assed-but-working-in-production-for-years protocols became essential. Few other people have attempted to build unified messaging systems like that, much less X.400 systems, until open source work on exchange compatibility began.

      I foresee an intercept course between the functionality of exchange as viewed by its clients and the functionality of open alternatives. Currently a functionality like that is only theoretically possible using open tools, mostly via undesirable web front ends, but this will change to the point where the client experience is the same. Once this feature parity is reached exchange's days are numbered. Of course it would help if Outlook could act as nicely when connected to non-exchange systems... that's actually a harder problem to solve.

      --
      I want my Cowboyneal
    74. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      What you say about VC++ Express missing MFC and ATL is true; (surprisingly; I was unaware of this, and C++ Express seems pretty damn useless without at least MFC support) I weep for anyone designing interfaces in MFC when .Net and Windows Forms is available for C# Express.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    75. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Umm, Netfix is available for PCs.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    76. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Which is why I said " but it just isn't there yet". They are touting these things as a possible replacement for your computer. But at the current price, you might as well just buy a full on computer and use that, and get a better experience. Sure if you can afford both devices, go ahead and buy both, you'll probably have a lot of fun with them. However I don't have the money to buy both devices, so I have to choose one. Disclaimer. I "could" buy both, but there's a lot other stuff I'd rather buy. The amount of use I would get out of it wouldn't make logical sense for the price they are charging.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    77. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by quantumphaze · · Score: 1

      You assume that the 1% and the 99% are mutually exclusive. You can have both a phone that is simple to use and assumes that the user is a complete idiot yet still caters to the geek who wants root access to run a Debian chroot. Meego was the best hope for this to come true (maybe some other handset manufacturer will pick it up still).

    78. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by evilviper · · Score: 1

      It would be great if there was an NX Client for Android, but none so far.

      What we really need is a rootless X11 server for Android, then you can use all the nice android apps where available, but can run standard linux programs whenever there is a gap that you can't avoid (like nx client).

      Until then, tablets aren't a serious laptop competitor.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    79. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 1

      I would love to, however while it exists and courts uphold them it still stands in the way of a competitor duplicating the feature set of a piece of software, irregardless of open / closed status.

      What I'm saying is that it doesn't really do that, at least as long as the person doing the duplicating is supported by a large company. Because that large company inevitably has patents that the first patent holder is infringing, which means that the first patent holder can't enforce the patent due to mutually assured destruction.

    80. Re:Not as long as it's done in a crippled way. by svick · · Score: 1

      I weep for anyone designing interfaces in Windows Forms when WPF is available for C# Express.

  4. You mean, is the PC dead? by Auroch · · Score: 2

    Because, well, that's the real question. Can we do away with PCs and windows? ...

    I think the answer is obvious. YES. It's the year of the linux desktop.



    ... *sigh* I mean no ... *double sigh*

    --
    Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
    1. Re:You mean, is the PC dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      and ripping video/audio, and basically doing anything that "they" don't want us to do.
      Can't beat 'em with software? Can't beat with law? Well then, let's cut off the hardware.

    2. Re:You mean, is the PC dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obviously if you cant do it 'in the cloud' you're either doing it wrong or its something illegal.
      If its not illegal then why aren't you sharing all your data with us.

    3. Re:You mean, is the PC dead? by md65536 · · Score: 1

      Obviously if you cant do it 'in the cloud' you're either doing it wrong or its something illegal.

      I can't get to the end of that sentence without my mind wandering and wondering to what mysterious things this euphemism is referring.

  5. Can it run my Steam games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then no, it won't replace my PC.

    1. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by zombiechan · · Score: 1

      Exactly, As long as theres PC gamers, there will be PCs.
      PC are not dead.... not for a long time.

    2. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Add on a plethora of other deals. Can it run the multiple different versions of Dragon and other applications used in a professional setting (Medical, Legal, etc. to begin taking it more specific)? That's where my job is currently situated. I only run Windows in a VM, but I have those VMs (need different ones for different purposes--including situations where I need to have multiple VMs open at once to get something of a network setup for development purposes related to the software I develop for clients) open just about every day. Until something like this can completely take over that position, it's not very worthwhile to my professional life.

      Now, in my consumer/personal life... well, minus maybe some games (Steam as you mention, amongst others, which is the rarity of me booting into Windows on my Laptop) and other things, this stuff looks pretty damn promising. It's just a start, but it's a start in the right direction for what Motorola wants to achieve (whether that is backwards or not from what I think is the actual right direction).

    3. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by ArcherB · · Score: 1

      Exactly, As long as theres PC gamers, there will be PCs.
        PC are not dead.... not for a long time.

      Yes, PC's are not going anywhere within the next 5 years. But as for games, phones play games as well. I don't know if you've been paying attention, but hottest processor coming out for phones is an nvidia designed, quad-core processor running at 1 GHz with integrated 3d acceleration and it is NOT hampered by the i386 instruction set we've been slave to for the past 20 years. Games will not be a problem. And the beauty of it is that you will be able to take the game with you, wherever you go and stay online the entire time. These things will play games at least as good as a PC (eventually) with the ability to stick it in your pocket and take it on the road.

      What happens after 5 years? The hardware and software will be "good enough" to replace PC's in both games and productivity. The portability will allow them to take over even if not as powerful as PC's and still take over. Of course, in the workplace, servers will still be "PC's", but all the clients will be plugging their phones into docking stations to connect their phones to the keyboard, mouse and monitor so they can get real work done.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    4. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by earls · · Score: 1

      Granted, I hear ya, I have a large collection of Steam games myself, but OnLive and more recently Gaikai accomplish some quite dramatic feats. I hope Valve continues fully embrace "the cloud" and begins to offer similar access to your already purchased games.

    5. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

      But as for games, phones play games as well.

      Oh, come on.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by redJag · · Score: 2

      Hey guys, PopeRatzo is right. I mean, come on. Yeah, come on!

    7. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seeing as most PC games these days are ported from the console and are unfriendly to modding there's little point in being a PC gamer anymore. Software DRM is just another insult.

    8. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know if you've been paying attention, but hottest processor coming out for phones is an nvidia designed, quad-core processor running at 1 GHz with integrated 3d acceleration and it is NOT hampered by the i386 instruction set we've been slave to for the past 20 years

      What? Tegra? Yeah, it's not 'hampered' by such performance-crippling i386 technology as 1990s-era SIMD instructions.

      Pull the other one. It has a bell.

    9. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by shawb · · Score: 1

      The last games I have heard people in the real world talking about are Angry Birds, Plants vs Zombies and the Android port of Vendetta. While PC gaming isn't going to absolutely go away anytime soon, I don't foresee it being a growth market. We are probably at the point where new PC gaming studios will open only as fast as old ones close or are absorbed into behemoths like EA. New creative indie gamers are mostly going to be doing their first games for cell phones as a pervasive distribution system with modest pricing schemes is now integral to the experience.

      To anyone who disagrees: what is the last new genre of video game that is largely installed (by installed I mean not played in the browser) on PCs? PC gaming is pretty much dominated by FPS, roleplaying, life sim and RTS/TBS. All genres that were pretty well codified in the '90s, with changes since then largely being evolutionary rather than revolutionary, or of the "but on the INTERNET!" variety.

      To put it in numbers, Angry Birds has 50 million shipped, which is more than three times as many as the biggest selling PC game The Sims at 16 Million. Wii has 7 games that sold better than The Sims. The DS has 5 games that sold better than The Sims.

      So no, PC gaming probably isn't going to go away for a bit. On the other hand, it really isn't going anywhere at all.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    10. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      You seriously think we'll be playing Far Cry 3 or WoW 2 on our smartphones? Please.

    11. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by delinear · · Score: 1

      They might not play Crysis, but they can certainly play Angry Birds. Have a think about which has sold more copies before you dismiss phones as gaming devices (and for a lot of these devices the UI is the problem when it comes to gaming - having a dock with a full keyboard and mouse would eliminate that problem). When the average user is happy playing Farmville, the phone is already capable of meeting the gaming needs of most people.

    12. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2381164,00.asp

      In the long run this makes me sad.

    13. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by ch0knuti · · Score: 1

      It is not the muscle power of the hardware involved. PC gaming survived the xbox 360 and ps3 (despite the fact when they were released games looked better on them). Can you imagine plat an rts like starcraft or warhammer on your phone? Or complex rpgs? mmos?

    14. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by ch0knuti · · Score: 1

      *playing

    15. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Have a think about which has sold more copies before you dismiss phones as gaming devices

      Do I need to consider Justin Beiber's record sales before I dismiss his music as shit?

      And I'm not sure what comparing units sold between a 99 cent game and a $59.00 game really tells us.

      Or should we all just give up our PC games because iPhone games are more popular? Do you choose the OS on your computer based upon which one sold most copies?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    16. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by Paul1969 · · Score: 1

      Well, you certainly need to consider his "record sales" before you dismiss his music as unsuccessful.
      *Record* sales? Seriously? You must be damn near as old as I am.

    17. Re:Can it run my Steam games? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      *Record* sales? Seriously? You must be damn near as old as I am.

      I want to know how many wax cylinders and shellacs he's sold. When it's as many as Rudy Vallee than he can call himself a recording star.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  6. No root Previlege by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...makes it an non-PC platform. PC means you have root. Plus its size, a bit too larger then the Macbook Air, makes it disqualified to be an ultraportable.

    1. Re:No root Previlege by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where are you getting that definition from? None of these sources mention root as a requisite of using the term PC, and Wikipedia says only this in its definition:

      A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator. PCs include any type of computer that is used in a "personal" manner.

      Again no mention of root, just any multi-purpose computer priced and sized for an individual end user. A smart phone would seem to already fit that definition, even without a dock.

  7. I can believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An iPad that I won, when combined with a hard-shell case with built-in keyboard (a ZaggMate, if you're curious) has completely replace my notebook computer. There are plenty of use-cases I can think of where it wouldn't work for everyone, but for my usage scenarios, I don't miss anything.

    A friend who works as an on-site computer technician owns both a full-feature notebook (for various definitions of full-feature: it's a MacBook Air) and an iPad. He admitted yesterday that he uses the iPad for 95% of his on-site work. Only when he needs to download a file for a customer does he need to use the notebook. And he's now working out a solution for that by tethering his iPad's 3G to an AirPort Express in device mode, Ethernetted over to the customer machine.

    1. Re:I can believe it. by earls · · Score: 1

      Sad, the device fails to completely fulfill it's role as a replacement when "he needs to download a file". All I'm saying is "of all things..."

    2. Re:I can believe it. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      A friend who works as an on-site computer technician owns both a full-feature notebook (for various definitions of full-feature: it's a MacBook Air) and an iPad.

      Jesus wept.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:I can believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, particularly humorous because the iPad has 3G, and the Mac doesn't.

  8. NFW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Atrix -- which costs $199 with a two-year contract from AT&T Wireless in the United States -- ...

    Shove it!

    1. Re:NFW by earls · · Score: 1

      Is there any two year contract that doesn't involve the shoving of its?

  9. The question is by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Informative
    Can it run Crysis? Also, from TFA:

    data, which would be too risky to carry around everywhere anyway. Sorry, folks, you won't escape cloud services

    Yeah, because the "Ooops we accidentally deleted your emails" from Google and also Hotmail a while back, plus countless other examples from other "cloud" providers, establish beyond a doubt the trustworthiness of the "cloud"... Nah, I will keep my desktop for now, thanks.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:The question is by earls · · Score: 1

      Is there anyone that didn't get their emails back?

    2. Re:The question is by Jonboy+X · · Score: 1

      Cloud service reliability will only get better. A total loss of data is still *much* less likely with data stored on my hard drive. Granted, regular backups would help a lot, but I'm too lazy.

      --

      "In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
    3. Re:The question is by Jonboy+X · · Score: 1

      Err, data loss is *more* likely on my hard disk.

      --

      "In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
    4. Re:The question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Accidental loss of data in the cloud is far less than losing the data when kept only locally.

      Don't keep all your eggs in one basket. Make backups. But that does not negate the fact that the data is far safer than the local machine for an average user.

    5. Re:The question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can it run Crysis?

      I hope you're kidding,
      I've got 4 PC's and 3 laptops in my household, and only one of them has the dedicated graphics required for crysis.

    6. Re:The question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm just waiting for the security issues to start appearing with cloud providers... problem is that they can just keep mum about major breaches, while their customers wonder who the heck is leaking their critical data.

      The cloud has its uses, but unless I have an encryption front end with keys that remain on my side, I wouldn't trust a cloud provider much, because all they have is promises -- no third party assurances, no neutral party audits/inspections of premises and policies. Of course, if the cloud provider goes toes up and files for bankruptcy, all the customer data is free to any and all takers. SLA? Worth less than toilet paper, and less comfortable to use.

      I have seen hosted providers able to cough up guarantees and solid SLAs, verified by third parties. Cloud providers just give me (pardon the pun) hot air. They can't even promise that the data is going to be stored on their premises, and sensitive data may end up offshore stored in a hostile nation's machines ripe for the taking.

      So, because I like being able to tell an auditor that I do "due diligence", there is no way in hell I can ever recommend a cloud provider to a business other than a mirror for downloading signed code, or some other task that is not security sensitive. In reality, due to cloud providers' lack of real security provisions, if I recommend one, I will breaking the law when it comes to SOX or HIPAA, and can face years in a PMITA prison.

    7. Re:The question is by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Depends on what you mean by safer. It is safer from destruction. It is less safe from theft.

    8. Re:The question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine a beowulf cluster of these things!

      But, can they run Linux? (Oh, wait...)

      Less hard drive and memory than my notebook, boring. ...yeah, I'm out.

    9. Re:The question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is Crysis?

    10. Re:The question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still have the hard drive from my first desktop, 1998 or 1999-ish. 3 gig seagate. I use it as my last line of defense in backups.

      I'll burn through a mobo/processor in a few years, but my hard drives have never died. What do you do to them?

    11. Re:The question is by fredmosby · · Score: 1

      For the vast majority of computer users the security in the 'cloud' is better than what they have at home.

    12. Re:The question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can it run Crysis?

      This.
      I'm waiting for the nVidia Kal-El quad core processor, 12-core GPU. The day when I can buy Rage on Android and play it to my HDTV is when I throw out my laptop and PS3.

    13. Re:The question is by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      I guess what you need is a private cloud running on your desktop at home. Then you'll be responsible for your own data loss :)

      Can it run Crysis - actually, it probably can if OnLive has it. why run the graphics on your phone chip when you can run it on a super-computer and transfer the resulting video to you. (apparently it really does work)

    14. Re:The question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I keep hearing, I'll wait until I've seen/tried it personally. Transferring images that are potentially bigger than HD video (unless they force you to play at late 90's resolutions) over standard home connections for a game (where any lag will literally kill you... well, your in-game avatar) sounds like a recipe for disappointment.

    15. Re:The question is by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      transfer the resulting video to you.

      While I am not familiar with OnLive and how it works, I believe it is nowhere near actually having a video card with the following example: 32 bits per pixel, 1024 x 768 pixels (assuming a low resolution mode) = 1.57 million bytes of data 60Hz refresh rate = 94.3 million bytes of data per second = 755 million bits per second. Now I think that most people do not have this type of broadband connection freely available. OK, so it probably uses some sort of compression algorithm and only updates areas of the screen that actually change from frame to frame, but this necessarily involves a degradation in quality. The Onlive site itself claims you must have a 15Mbps connection - that is not available in many parts of the world.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    16. Re:The question is by The+O+Rly+Factor · · Score: 1

      See, but on your local hard disk, data loss happens because the disk fails.

      In cloud storage, data loss happens because a disk fails, a disgruntled admin blows something up, the service gets blown up to make way for SUPER AWESOME CLOUD THING 2.0, the parent company goes under, the parent company decides it no longer wants to support hosting your data, or the parent company just plain doesn't like you because you broke rule number 3 section 4.5 subsection 361 of their Terms of Service valid for March 2, 2011.

      Yeah, "much less likely."

    17. Re:The question is by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I'm doubting that. How many times has your personal computer been compromised and how many times has a system you had an account on been compromised? I have had 1 virus 20 years ago on my Amiga. That's it. I have had accounts on dozens of 'cloud' systems that have been compromised. Can you really say that your experience is significantly different?

    18. Re:The question is by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      true - nothing is perfect, but its the first generation of streaming games to your TV/phone/whatever. I know that if they can stream movies to you, then you can stream games with acceptable quality (especially on a phone screen, which is what we're talking about here)

  10. Real convergence by 2Bits · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... could have happened with MeeGo, it's a damn desktop computer in your pocket, all you need is a dock, and preferably with standard connection port, and you are there. The dock could even come from a different manufacturer in the ecosystem. But heck, with the recent turn of events, it's not going to happen anyway.

    1. Re:Real convergence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft got where they are by taking advantage of the other guys mistakes.

    2. Re:Real convergence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which other companies are happy to help with:
      http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/28/advancetcs-4-8-inch-tabletphone-runs-windows-7-on-a-1-6ghz-atom/

      A large-ish (for smart phone norms) device that runs Windows 7 and has phone capabilities, including wake-on-SMS/Call to keep some semblance of battery life. It can also have monitor, keyboard and mouse hooked up to it and act as a 'desktop'.

      I'd imagine it'd be quite annoying to actually work with, if they ever actually make it available, but I'm liking the direction that mobile devices like these (including the Atrix) are taking.

    3. Re:Real convergence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except that's the problem - it's a desktop computer in your pocket, and nobody wants a desktop computer in their pocket. (outside of megageeks)

      This is why MeeGo was a complete failure.

    4. Re:Real convergence by Microlith · · Score: 0

      Oh hello there troll.

      No, no that's not it at all. MeeGo has not failed, it is still progressing. It needs wins on platforms, but I suppose if that's how you see it you can go enjoy your crippled mobile operating systems that are gimp for no good reason (except advertising and monetization.)

      Oh and CmdrTaco: fix this stupid five minute delay between posts! Not all of us are so mentally slow that we need a whole 5 minutes to write up a thought and post it.

    5. Re:Real convergence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know anyone that has actually tried developing for MeeGo?

    6. Re:Real convergence by TeXMaster · · Score: 1

      Do you know anyone that has actually tried developing for MeeGo?

      Apparently the WeTab has MeeGo installed, and a bunch of software do go with it, so somebody must be. (And if they didn't only sell in Germany and the Netherlands, I would be as well).

      --
      "I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
    7. Re:Real convergence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was wondering more if anyone has first or second hand experience with programming. It is supposedly a very poorly laid out environment for developers.

    8. Re:Real convergence by aliquis · · Score: 1

      The Nokia N8 got:

      * HDMI
      * USB Mass Storage
      * USB On The Go
      * MicroSD card slot

      So yeah, desktop computer in your pocket.. Or rather, pocket computer which accessories.

      But it runs Symbian^3 and not MeeGo ..
      And yeah, not very likely to be able to run MeeGo on such a device real soon now (maybe before years end in a single model ..)

      Well done Nokia!

      At least they could had released MeeGo Handset for the C6 + C7 + N8 + E7 and N900 =P

    9. Re:Real convergence by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Fuck. Fucking piece of shit Firefox removed lots of the words typed as usual. It (3.x) does it all the freaking time (an OS X (10.4) issue?) during load.

      Should had read "Or rather, pocket computer which can be turned into a desktop computer with an external monitor, USB hub and accessories."

      Worst. Browser. Ever. (Or well, Safari 2 is worse, but Firefox suck.)

      I hate shitty software. Whose brilliant idea was it to let all the tabs run all the freaking time and compete against the user interface and how the fuck can you miss keyboard and/or mouse input anyway? Process later sure. Just ignore it? What?

    10. Re:Real convergence by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      keylogger stealing your passwords. :)

       

      --
      Deleted
    11. Re:Real convergence by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Now you make me afraid :D

      Why do you think so thanks to loss of typed keys?

      Wouldn't surprise me considering 10.4.6 hack ..

      Or something specific to Firefox? Just an idea, being evil or any suggestions? :D

  11. Trucks vs Bikes again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Android is still a "bike" OS compared to full size Truck OSes like MacOS X, X11-based Linux and Windows. I have both android and iOS devices but they always need to dock to PCs to do the heavy work.

    1. Re:Trucks vs Bikes again by earls · · Score: 1

      The problem is the phone is a thin-client trying to act like a full-blown computer whereas instead it should be utilized for what it is - a thin-client.

  12. Interesting... by benjamindees · · Score: 2

    When you dock the Atrix, the Firefox browser and other dock-provided services aren't running from the Atrix but instead from a stripped-down Linux PC inside the dock.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    1. Re:Interesting... by BoberFett · · Score: 1

      So it's not actually doing away with anything, and actually requires a full fledged PC to do those things? Sounds like a non-story.

    2. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Everything runs on the phone.

      To be fair, it's not you that's wrong, you're just repeating bad information.

    3. Re:Interesting... by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Not interesting, just wrong.

  13. Thunderbolt by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this is where Apple is headed with Thunderbolt (née Light Peak) ? A thunderbolt-equipped iPhone could drive a large external display and still have a seperate 10 Gbps multi protocol data channel left over which to drive peripherals, which is plenty fast.

    --
    If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    1. Re:Thunderbolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if this is where Apple is headed with Thunderbolt (née Light Peak) ? A thunderbolt-equipped iPhone could drive a large external display and still have a seperate 10 Gbps multi protocol data channel left over which to drive peripherals, which is plenty fast.

      s/iPhone/iPad/ and I think it's more profitable for Apple (and thus likely).

    2. Re:Thunderbolt by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      You better go look at their balance sheet. They make about $600/iPhone and about $300/iPad.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  14. OK, BUT CAN IT RUN LINUX ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well?

    1. Re:OK, BUT CAN IT RUN LINUX ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be silly. Linux is for kids.

  15. Oh thank god by atari2600a · · Score: 0

    $600 for an underpowered everything? For a second there I thought my repair business was done for! ...I really need to adapt to the smartphone repair market...

  16. It doesn't run on the phone? by MBCook · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So I was reading the article and thinking "$400 for the laptop module? $200 + peripherals for the dock? Those are the equivalent of a cheap laptop/PC" Then I got to this tidbit:

    "When you dock the Atrix, the Firefox browser and other dock-provided services aren't running from the Atrix but instead from a stripped-down Linux PC inside the dock. A real post-PC device would run everything from the smartphone or tablet, and it would use the dock to add more processing or take advantage of peripherals."

    What? Why the heck am I buying this thing? All you're selling is an ultra-underpowered, crippled Linux computer that only works when a weird phone is plugged in for no particular reason. Syncing open tabs in FireFox is nice, but that's not enough. A simple app could do that. At home, I can keep a computer no problem. On the go, I still have to keep your laptop dock thing, so no space savings there.

    Then there are other downsides. I'm guessing it drains the battery faster to use the laptop dock thing. The pictures of the laptop dock make it look really easy to snap the phone off the back accidentally and break the phone/dock. It's nice to know the reviewer doesn't think the thing feels secure in the dock.

    This seems to be where computers will go for most people, but this first implementation clearly sounds more like a beta product than a first generation.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      The dock has its own battery so it shouldn't drain the phone.

      Accessing information on the phone from the dock is interesting, though a wireless option with something faster than bluetooth would be nice. The phone also acts as the data connection for the dock which could also be made wireless.

      I'm not sure about calling it beta rather than first gen but there are areas that could be improved. Hopefully we can get a standard. Then phones will be able to easily interface with cars which is happening, but the API are different for the systems each auto manufacturer is using. I'll be interested to see where this goes in a few years.

    2. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      This seems to be where computers will go for most people, but this first implementation clearly sounds more like a beta product than a first generation.

      Agreed, but it's a step in the right direction. Being able to carry just a cell phone, and no laptop would be great. But my phone is never going to replace a good desktop at home, if you need one.

    3. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like an ecology that lets me use my phone and my laptop (PC) together as complements to each other. I'm sure that for some people web browsing and specially tailored apps are all that's necessary, but I'm not "some people". I need a PC to do my work, to do my serious play/hobbies... I need my phone to communicate and aid me in work when my PC is inconvenient. Just as my phone cannot replace my camera, it cannot replace my PC. It can only serve as a handy alternative on-the-go.

    4. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The dock has its own battery so it shouldn't drain the phone.

      Wow, so the dock really *is* just a mildly retarded netbook without Wifi or 3G. Where can I sign up to waste $200 on this crap?

    5. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The author of the article is talking out of his ass. Everything runs on the phone, as you would expect. And the laptop dock actually charges the phone, rather than draining it.

    6. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by MBCook · · Score: 1

      No, the phone is $200 (on contract). The non-functional laptop dock is $400.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    7. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      Why do you need a good desktop? Seriously? I have a laptop for surfing/typing, a router for networking, a few Arduinos for hacking, a rack of servers for Real Work (TM), and if I wanted to play games with awesome graphics I would probably break down and use a console. What purpose does a desktop serve?

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    8. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Metabolife · · Score: 1

      This will take off once the dock is replaced with a wireless connection.

    9. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe your work lets you log in from a home PC, but most do not. I carry my laptop home from work everyday - and its a PITA. For 90+% of my work I'm merely using my laptop as a thin client to another server (Unix box, citrix servers, etc) and the 10% is internal MS office documents of various types I could do via Citrix if needed.

      This would be a great alternative. Have a spare dock at home and forget the lapdock. Heck, share a lapdock with your department and send it out on an as-needed basis for business travel. My back would love it. My IT department would have one less machine to support. Smiles all around. There is a rather large niche for this product if its marketed to business instead of just Joe-consumer. And, I suspect, that niche will grow as the machines themselves get more powerful and 4G become ubiquitous.

      Yes, this is just another thin client in a shinier, more convenient package. But it looks a _LOT_ more convenient (and quite a bit shinier)

    10. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      I have a laptop for surfing/typing, a router for networking, a few Arduinos for hacking, a rack of servers for Real Work (TM), and if I wanted to play games with awesome graphics I would probably break down and use a console.

      You can pay for and maintain all of that, or you can buy a decent desktop.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    11. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, and

      The Firefox browser worked reasonably well. Cloud services such as Google Docs and Microsoft Office 365 [11] that don't operate well in mobile browsers functioned perfectly fine via the dock's Linux Firefox browser. As mentioned earlier, some Web plug-ins such as Microsoft Silverlight and its open source counterpart Moonlight don't work in Linux Firefox, and neither does Java, so it's not quite the same as using Firefox on a Windows PC or Mac. However, I had no issues with the common Adobe plug-ins.

      He makes that sound like a Linux failing. Obviously not so, this is totally on the stupid dock.

    12. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's incorrect. All work is done by the phone, including Webtop (where the firefox browser runs). The dock is only hardware.

    13. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by GooRoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      When you dock the Atrix, the Firefox browser and other dock-provided services aren't running from the Atrix but instead from a stripped-down Linux PC inside the dock. A real post-PC device would run everything from the smartphone or tablet, and it would use the dock to add more processing or take advantage of peripherals."

      From everything I've read, this is patently untrue. The browser runs on the phone 'webtop'. There are those on XDA-developers that have already figured out how to get the 'webtop' to start even without the laptop dock connected and instead display to HDMI.

      Anyway, I don't agree with many of your conclusions, but I do agree the peripherials are overpriced - as I would expect for a first of it's kind product.

    14. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Dunghopper · · Score: 1

      Then there are other downsides. I'm guessing it drains the battery faster to use the laptop dock thing.

      You guess wrong. The battery in the laptop dock actually charges the phones battery when it is docked.

    15. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      It's not true, the guy who wrote the article just doesn't seem to have any idea what he's talking about. The info in there (the bits that are correct, at least) could have been gleaned completely from early reviews or even the previews on the various gadget blogs...

    16. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by noc007 · · Score: 1

      I was disappointed to read that the dock actually has a beefier processor for the webtop, which was contrary to what I had thought. I went back to my original info on the Atrix and I think this reviewer doesn't know WTF they're talking about. According to Motorola at CES, all of the processing is done on the phone itself; the desktop dock is just a port port replicator and USB hub and the lapdock serves the same function, but has the actual I/O devices and a battery to power everything and charge the phone. I recommend watching the videos at the following links:
      http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/motorola-atrix-4g-hd-multimedia-dock-and-laptop-dock-hands-on/
      http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/09/motorola-atrix-another-look-video/

      I any case, I think it's a great idea that will only get better as it matures. I don't see this as killing off the desktop and laptop just yet, but I'd anticipate it would take over marketshare down the road. Personally I could see it replacing my work laptop, but nothing else. Outside of work, most of the stuff I do on my computer can be accomplished within a web browser, media player, or an app from the Market. For anything beyond that, I can RDP into my desktop at home (tunneling over SSH if remote) or a work computer/server (VPN if remote).

      My employer provides me with a laptop so I have all of my tools and crap with me if an emergency arises when I'm out of the office. Beyond a big networking issue, I really don't have a need for a laptop when I could have a Webtop on my phone with a laptop-esq dock and a powerful desktop to remote into.

    17. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

      I agree. Why not just do wireless syncing of the relevant information? It's a software update to enable a cloud service or a dynamic P2P connection over wi-fi, not a proprietary hardware Frankenstein. This is so 1997.

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    18. Re:It doesn't run on the phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right you are. I'm posting as AC as I work for one of the two companies involved with the Atrix. The software build for the Atrix is around a gig and a half, whereas most Android phones have software builds around 300-400 meg. The entire webtop environment is contained within the phone's software.

  17. Next PC? by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    My N900 is the computer i use more in a way or another most days. But it don't replace my PC, complements it. Sometimes i need far more horsepower, memory, and bigger screen and input devices than my phone, and in that tasks the Atrix would fall short too. I don't know if future devices (using i.e. the Sixth Sense approach?) will improve a lot input and output of information for small devices, that coupled with improvements in battery, cpu and memory could make the PC less needed.

    Maybe im using PC too much as synonymous of desktop computer (or big/powerful laptop), but still, odds should be even smaller than netbooks replacing PCs still.

  18. Not until page 3... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not until page 3 does it tell us that the desktop version of Firefox isn't actually running from the phone, but from a separate processor *in the dock itself* that's running Linux. This isn't the post-PC world. The dock *is* a low-powered Linux PC with HDMI-out that can pair with the phone for mobile storage. No wonder it costs more than $100.

  19. I thought about this idea years ago by Nexusone1984 · · Score: 1

    I had similar thoughts of using a cell phone that way.

    With the increase in storage space and shrinking on size of memory and hard drives. You could carry around all your documents and e-mails on your cell phone.

    When home you dock your cell phone, the phone is charged and all your data is synced with docking station, which would house a larger hard drive and other devices like CD/DVD burner, printers.

    The have the ability to use a monitor, keyboard and mouse when your not out on the road and use full screen app's.

    When the cell phone app's let you access the data in a format suited for the cell phone.

    1. Re:I thought about this idea years ago by earls · · Score: 1

      fuck me someone get this guy a nobel peace prize

    2. Re:I thought about this idea years ago by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      Your idea is missing standardized connection. Then you could have docking stations setup else where for business use.

      Plug your phone into a dock at Kinko's to access the presentation you were working on during your flight and print out new handouts.

      Sit down into an Internet cafe and enjoy your office while following up with some leads via email on a full desktop experience. When you are done disconnect and none of your data is left cached on the system you were working on.

      Add this to hotels catering to business men. Heck use wireless charging, near field to do a hand shake, and have the connection be completely wireless and this would really rock.

  20. I was more than a bit disappointed with this by brokeninside · · Score: 1

    Something like the Atrix is close to the perfect machine for me.

    But you can't install regular Linux apps. Someday this might work but until such time as the TeX/LaTeX toolchain gets ported, I'll be waiting.

    Well, perhaps the other possibility would be for one of the online LaTeX providers to allow my customized stylesheets and all the modules from CTAN that I regularly use.

  21. That's not a huge deal to me by brokeninside · · Score: 1

    I can understand keeping the Linux implementation distinct from the phone. Depending on the distribution, it could eat up quite a bit of the phone's available memory to have full fledged LInux on it.

    But what I can't really get is having a crippled Linux distribution on the various docks. No installing LaTeX and CTAN for you!

    1. Re:That's not a huge deal to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF are you smoking man? Phones have 32GB of flash memory these days, there's no reason in hell to run a restricted subset of ${your_favorite_*n*x} on it.

      Even Maemo and MeeGo are lame in depending on BusyBox in lieu of most GNU utilities, but if you can avoid dependencies on that, Maemo is essentially a full Debian-compatible system -- you can build practically anything from Debian source packages.

      *steam pours out of ears*
      Whoops, I just remembered the N900 ships with the root fs on NAND flash, and the bulk of the 32GB eMMC is a vfat partition for "user data" -- of course, since you've got root access, it's not hard to change to an emmc-root configuration like I'm running, but it fries my gizzard that they don't ship it that way.

    2. Re:That's not a huge deal to me by MBCook · · Score: 1

      No kidding. My iPhone 4 is more powerful in every way (CPU, RAM, storage, 3D) than the first computer I ran Linux on, and that would have been a PII 300 in '97 or '98. I've run linux down on 386es with a few MB of RAM. If all you're doing is running a copy of FireFox, you shouldn't need a whole new shadow computer. Just some extra RAM hung off a bus to hold extra cached data (downloaded images, pages, etc) should be more than enough.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    3. Re:That's not a huge deal to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect the GP meant physical memory, not storage 'memory', since only morons make that confusion.

      Even if he meant storage, you're still wrong. ROM space is 1-8GB typically; the remainder is for user data. Android was designed to fit on 1GB.

  22. End of the Wintel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm glad that they're using an ARM-based nVidia chip instead of Intel. Slashdotters complain about Google, Microsoft, Apple, AMD (sometimes), IBM (sometimes), Sony, and pretty much every movie/music distributor they can think of. But for some reason, for most here, Intel is above criticism. I don't know if it's because you're afraid Intel will track you through your Pentium 3's serial number, because your brains are like Pentium 4s and your perspectives only shift one bit per cycle, because you can't count all of the mistakes Intel made on your Pentiums, because Sandy Bridge's DRM keeps you from posting anything offensive to Intel, or because your Intel Graphics Media Accelerators don't let you see the forest for the trees, but there are a lot of Intel fanboys and yes-men on Slashdot.

  23. No. by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 0

    Just no.

    --
    To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
  24. No.. but by Sir_Sri · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, it can't. But it can replace your netbook or maybe a low powered notebook.

    That's a good thing.

    But the smartphone market will give a good kick in the arse to intel/AMD to start releasing much better hardware, for less money, to keep the desktop well ahead of the smartphone game. A brand new 900 dollar phone (600 + dock) is roughly on par with a 700 dollar laptop. That's pretty appealing. Desktops, well, I just priced out a bunch of desktops in the 1600-2000 dollar range, which are easily 10x more powerful, so if you have any use for the power, no, the phone won't do it.

    10 years ago we passed the point of the hardware making much difference to a word processor. And we aren't quite at the point where the average desktop user can just dictate to their computer (though we're close, I managed a several setups like that for students with disabilities), and pretty much anything can web browse. Until software that people would use everyday catches up to hardware there's probably a market for a phone that replaces a desktop, and then we'll go back to a desktops. It's hurt intel and AMD I think that while transistor density may still be doubling every 18 ish months performance isn't. Core 2 -> i7->sandy bridge is like 20% performace gains clock for clock, at each step, and the clocks aren't much faster, and there aren't even more cores (because nothing uses 6 cores well yet, let alone 8, 12 or 16). HTML 5, and google's native code over the web etc. *might* change things a bit, giving people instant access to stuff. But all the great technologies we're touting, colour e-book readers, mp3 players, phones that can run programs aren't exactly great performance wise. I could read PDF's just as well 15 years ago as I can today, play music maybe 12 years ago as well as I can today, and any computer can run programs. The phone guys have done a good job using the web to make software accessible, but if the desktop guys could pull of the same there'd be demand there (and as someone else pointed out, my Steam games collection isnt' about to run on a phone).

    1. Re:No.. but by c0lo · · Score: 0

      HTML 5, and google's native code over the web etc. *might* change things a bit, giving people instant access to stuff.

      But all the great technologies we're touting, colour e-book readers, mp3 players, phones that can run programs aren't exactly great performance wise

      What stuff? You mean FaecBook, garden-walled app/content repository or gmail/Ymail/hotmail and such?
      No, thanks, I do value more being able to download some source code from sf.net and compile it, ssh to my personal server to create just another SMTP/IMAP account (when I need an one-off/disposable email), and whatnot.

      Maybe because I'm might not be "of the people" that I don't see a value in churning shit with high performance?.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    2. Re:No.. but by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      Stuff like games, video editing, photo editing etc. Just because you and I don't use it, doesn't mean the model won't catch on in 5 or 6 years, I don't buy any games on the iTunes store, despite being a game developer and having an iPhone. The walled garden thing seems to be quite popular. In the time 150k apps were made for Android how many were made for Windows 7 (not the phone, just windows 7)? I have no clue, because no one tracks it. Which ones are good, well, I know some of them, but I'm sure there are great pieces of software out there that I've never heard of or used. How do I find them? Well if I know what I want that's easy. But there's no good way to browse apps generally.

      If your ONLY model is the walled garden I think you have a problem. Think Steam. As long as I can buy stuff outside their little fiefdom, their products and services add value for me as a consumer, they make it easier to find stuff and I get better prices, and if they don't want to sell it to me (or don't match a competitor, or don't provide some value I want) I can still go elsewhere. I trade that for the reduced security of several of my purchases being tied to a single service who could go bankrupt. On the other hand my iPhone is entirely (at least legally) tied to Apple, and they decide what I can run on it, so I won't be buying another iPhone. Jailbreaking is fine, but as long as other people offer a legal path to running whatever I'd rather do that.

      Simple stuff (facebook, mail etc. ) doesn't need horsepower, and doesn't need native code or any great mechanism to buy as software, because the web already solves that problem. I'm not convinced native code over the web is a workable idea in the long run, but powerful software, distributed via the web is going to become more the norm ( and not necessarily tied to anything). Anything that makes useful software accessible to users who might want it is good. I think right now the only service that fits that bill is the pirate bay, and in their case what they provide is somewhat limited by the desire and capability of users to pirate it.

      I'm not sure what you mean by churning shit with high performance. High performance is relative, and only valuable if you have a use for it. I play a lot of games, so I don't forsee replacing a desktop with a phone anytime soon, even compared to game consoles I'm a factor of 5 or 6 more powerful pretty easily. A 30inch monitor and I'd need even more power again. Not everyone will do that, but I also think there's a market for higher performance that could be served by better access, and software that is meaningful and uses that power. My guess on a 'killer' app, is word or office that let you dictate in real time, without it dying due to memory leaks, pausing, getting horribly confused 15-20% of the time (as tend to happen with the existing stuff on the market). A 15% failure rate on speech to text pretty much destroys it's efficiency advantage, but getting your error rate down to 1 or 2% seems (and this might be an algorithms problem) to be exponentially harder than a 20% error rate, maybe it's a 80/20 thing, where 80% of your processing time will be taken on the 20% hardest words, I dunno. Easy to use diagraming tools, games, multimedia editing, interactive god knows what could all justify more expensive hardware, if the software can manage to do it, and someone can figure out how to get it to customers.

    3. Re:No.. but by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      no, but your steam games collection is already running on the OnLive service, so you could still play them on your phone.

      and the new ARM A15 designs are supposed to scale upwards to provide the kind of power you want (assuming you have it plugged into the mains, not off battery).

      Still, maybe we just have to rediscover how to write software that is lean,tight and fast. Not bloated, slow and bogged down with all kinds of 'framework'.

    4. Re:No.. but by tauntalum · · Score: 1

      "A brand new 900 dollar phone (600 + dock) is roughly on par with a 700 dollar laptop. That's pretty appealing."

      Appealing if it were true, but sadly it is not. $700 laptop is a fantastic machine these days, but apparently they haven't yet hit the level of $300 netbooks.

      See the critical review by Engadget:

      "In all, the software story in the Webtop environment is not all that pleasant. It's a sluggish, somewhat sloppy experience that's difficult to enjoy, even though the basic premise driving this technology is really exciting."

  25. Moto's crippled bootloader by tepples · · Score: 2

    Being able to download the kernel, driver, and Android sources directly from Motorola, the maker of my Droid phone, is so prohibitive.

    Good luck getting your recompiled kernel+driver+Android sources past the well-locked-down bootloader on any Motorola Android device newer than the original Droid.

    1. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which has nothing at all to do with open source.

      But yes, Android is occasionally encumbered, which is why I wrote that it was.

      Though like the unhacked PS3, you don't buy the locked-down phones if you want to flash them with unsigned ROMs. At that point you're just being a whiny bitch.

    2. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by cronot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being able to download the kernel, driver, and Android sources directly from Motorola, the maker of my Droid phone, is so prohibitive.

      Good luck getting your recompiled kernel+driver+Android sources past the well-locked-down bootloader on any Motorola Android device newer than the original Droid.

      Fair enough. However, this is not Android's (the OS) fault - the bootloader locking mechanism is hardware based, so only Motorola's to blame here. As always in these cases, all you can do is vote with your wallet: get a HTC or some other brand that doesn't lock you out of your property.

    3. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by mlts · · Score: 1

      Moto isn't the only ones doing this. Try updating a Samsung Behold 2 to Android 2.x.

    4. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      My Samsung Moment came with Android 1.6 and it has 2.1 now. Methinks it's your carrier, I spent a month breaking into my ATT phone running Windows Mobile, the OS had a SIP client built right in that was disabled by ATT. Replace a CAB file or two and away you go, unfortunately WinMo 6.5 sucks as managing network connections but that was a few years ago now so things have improved dramatically as phone hopping on wifi is pretty commonplace these days.

    5. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by tepples · · Score: 1

      Methinks it's your carrier

      Unfortunately, in the United States, the general rule is the better the coverage, the more locked down the phones are, and the less likely the carrier is to offer a discount on service for bringing your own. A lot of people have carriers with undesirable lockdown policies because the good guys can't get a signal to them.

    6. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by bemymonkey · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, most people are too stupid to vote with their wallets when buying their first Android device. When the Droid X came out with the locked bootloader, I and many other people (mostly annoyed Milestone owners like me, I suppose) spent time posting comments on EVERY article we could find about the damned thing, warning people not to buy if they wanted to be able to change their system in any way... seriously, there's not an article out there from the Droid X launch that doesn't have somebody yelling, "Don't buy it, it's locked down!" in the comments. Most of the replies were along the lines of, "I don't use custom software, the X is going to rock even with a locked bootloader, don't assume that your needs apply to everyone here..."

      Now, a few months later, all the comments on articles about newer Moto phones are filled with Droid X/2 owners whining about their locked down pieces of shit.

      Dear lemmings: Don't say we didn't warn you...

    7. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Moto is by far the worst culprit so far. HTC has refrained (so far) from measures as extreme as booting only signed kernels, and Samsung seems to allow one to roll back to older bootloaders quite easily (which also don't check kernel signatures)...

      We'll see what the next batch brings, but I have a feeling HTC have already caught on...

    8. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by crunzh · · Score: 1

      Yes it is, they choose a license that allows the manufactures to lockdown the handsets.

      --
      Visit http://www.crunzh.com/ for free software. Mac/Lin/Win
    9. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Though like the unhacked PS3, you don't buy the locked-down phones if you want to flash them with unsigned ROMs. At that point you're just being a whiny bitch.

      Only if you know in advance that it's locked down. When I bought my Milestone, there was no way I could have known it was crippled like that.

    10. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 1

      Voting with your wallet doesn't work. Most of the people voting don't know what the DRM is all about.

    11. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Which is why you don't buy a phone until you find reliable evidence that it will be root-able and flash-able. If you bought a phone that nobody has successfully hacked, yet you want to be able to hack it, that's a failing on your part.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    12. Re:Moto's crippled bootloader by mcvos · · Score: 1

      That's easy to say now, but at that time, all Android phones were rootable and moddable. Nobody expected the Milestone to be locked down like that. Also note that it's practically a clone of the Droid, which doesn't have the same limitation.

  26. LIke the PDA killed the Laptop, the laptop the PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NT

  27. Landline + dumbphone + home Internet by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From the article:

    The Atrix -- which costs $199 with a two-year contract from AT&T Wireless in the United States -- ...

    Anonymous Coward wrote:

    Shove it!

    Quoted for truth. Adding a monthly cell phone plan can be expensive for people who are currently happy with the combination of a bare-bones land line, a dumbphone with $5/mo service for those few calls that can't wait (such as arranging a ride home), a PDA or netbook that gets Wi-Fi, and home Internet access allowing more than single-digit GB/mo.

    1. Re:Landline + dumbphone + home Internet by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Such people obviously aren't the market for a bloody smart phone.

    2. Re:Landline + dumbphone + home Internet by Microlith · · Score: 2

      Don't forget to add on the fact that you are locked into the revision of Android Motorola has placed on the device unless they feel like blessing you with an upgrade. Punitive measures like signing the kernel serve no one's purposes but Motorola's, and is a downgrade in capability compared to a regular PC simply from an ownership standpoint.

    3. Re:Landline + dumbphone + home Internet by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 1

      I disagree. See, I'm one of those people. I had enough for a n900 at $300(used, unlocked), but not enough for $50/month phone bill.
      So, I went with T-Mobile payg. I pay a few $ now and then, and get ineternet on the few days I need it for 1.50/day. Sure, I do that everyday for a month, and I'm up to $50... But I don't need to. I don't always need more than Wifi at home and a few hotspots; 3g's just for edge-cases.

    4. Re:Landline + dumbphone + home Internet by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Then you weren't happy with "a dumbphone" and hence aren't part of the group, surely?

  28. Get a USB hub by tepples · · Score: 1
    From the article:

    but if you're using the dock in a living room with your HDMI-equipped TV, adding USB cables in the mix could be awkward.

    That's what USB hubs are for. Buy a USB hub and a 16-foot cable to the TV, and it'll reach your TV tray with no problem.

    Further, using a USB keyboard means you'll lack the special Android keys (Menu, Home, Search, and Back) and will need to rely on the mouse to access their on-screen equivalents.

    Then that's a defect in the port of Android. It should have used the menu key of a 104-key keyboard (between right Alt and right Control) for menu, Win+F for search, Win+Left or Win+Backspace for back, and Win for home. The author doesn't appear to mention having tried a "multimedia keyboard" either.

    Android apps such as Quickoffice don't adjust to take advantage of the bigger screen as you would expect

    Part of that is because the Android 2.3 certification requirements document requires a touch screen and a screen of at least 100 DPI. (It used to require things like GPS, a camera, and a cell phone, but those have been dropped sometime between 1.6 and 2.3.) Uncertified hardware has no official access to Android Market.

    Nor does the article state whether or not supports loading apps from "Unknown sources", or whether it hides the checkbox like AT&T's Android phones do.

    From the second article:

    According to Google, it's all about supporting the HTML5 offline features AppCache and Local Storage.

    I've looked up the limits on devices. AppCache: 5 MB. Local Storage: 5 MB. Good luck making meaningful offline support for any application dealing with data larger than that.

    1. Re:Get a USB hub by shawb · · Score: 1

      Or leave the dock right by the monitor, and use a wireless keyboard and mouse. Basically just agreeing with you: this is a problem that has already been solved. In many ways. The Evo 4G already has HDMI out, and with a customized USB hub could run just about any peripheral needed for consumer purposes while recharging the phone. Storage? just use the cloud. How much space do you need in a consumer device now that media is generally streamed? Of course the software and OS probably aren't quite there for getting it to run smoothly, but that's just a matter of time.

      Real work will still probably be done on a traditional desktop or laptop for some time now, but that's a different story. Anyways, the future probably isn't so much with a dock that allows for bigger and better I/O as it is a way to connect the smartphone to the PC so the actual run state of a program can be shifted from one device to another similar to dragging a window between screens of a multi monitor setup. This would take a revolution in the way DRM is handled, probably something along the lines of cloud computing with the PC and phone acting as thin clients. Unless the economy crashes and noone can afford it.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  29. End of the Windows hegemony? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought linux on the desktop was supposed to do that....

    1. Re:End of the Windows hegemony? by shawb · · Score: 1

      Android IS descended from Linux.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  30. Already been done: Celio Redfly by howardd21 · · Score: 1

    The Celio Redfly was doing this years ago with Windows Mobile and now offers a desktop connection that also supports BlackBerry http://www.celiocorp.com/companion

    --
    no comment
  31. The Answer by Qatz · · Score: 1

    No

    1. Re:The Answer by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      Correct! It was a silly question in the first place.

  32. no, no it can't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, no it can't. People are used to all the different things that PC's can do. Once you turn that into an appliance where it can only do certain things, then it's pointless. Sure people can desire that the PC become an appliance, but once they're told they can't do this and they can't do that, then they don't want it anymore. They don't understand that an appliance by it's nature is limited.

    If all people did was check their email and surf the internet, then these appliances would have taken off years ago. And they haven't for this very reason.

  33. Depends on the device by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

    A Motorola Atrix 4G? No, probably not. A Sony NGP-class device with quad-core CPU and quad-core GPU? Depending on the connectivity, quite possibly, for the majority of tasks. If it's got hardware accelerated HD video & flash, can attach to fast storage through the dock, I think most people wouldn't know the difference. The average person surfing the web, streaming video, using Facebook and email, and playing the latest pointless Zynga game, definitely not going to be a problem.

    Are hardcore gamers going to be able to? Hell no, but that's a specialized subset of computer users.

    How about a special 'gaming dock' for your new Sony NGP? Maybe something that works in conjunction with your PlayStation console? That may very well take care of many of the gamers.

    Dock at home and at work and sync to your storage remotely. Fuck yeah.

    I'm really hoping the Sony NGP will be usable as a cellphone through Google Voice or Skype. I'd ditch my cellphone for that, if the data connection speed and quality and data pricing plans are in line with my budget.

    1. Re:Depends on the device by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      What OS does it run?

      Android can not run accelerated video hardware and does graphics in software as documented in earlier slashdot stories. Then you wouldn't need a dual core or quad core cpu on a phone.

      I can only imagine the battery life.

  34. Re:Nope, it won't be my next PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A 10' round tablet seems like an odd demographic...but it looks like it has nice place to hold it with both hands.

  35. No bleeping way! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If I have a PC or a laptop, I can put any operating system I want on it. Not so with Motorola's products. At least one of Motorola's phones quits working if you try to run anything but Motorola's OS on it.

    My PC/laptop is not an appliance. I use it to do work. If I run Ubuntu, I know I can trust what comes from the repository. Android is a security nightmare.

    I will not be replacing my PCs/laptops with an Android device any time soon.

  36. Name too similar ... by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    At first I thought it said "Altrix", which reminded me of the SGI Altix that I use at work. Now if they had reduced that to something resembling portable (or even something resembling what I would want for my next PC), I'd be impressed!

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  37. sure it can, but! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is not a question of mobile becoming more powerful. Is the ability to run firefox browser alone enough to be proclaimed a PC? I am a developer and a researcher. I install (and uninstall) softwares day in and day out. Softwares to write code, softwares that act as servers, softwares that produce something that I want to produce. In theory Android and other mobile can do that, but can they do a to the extent a PC does now? So the question really is can it become mainstream? can it load mainstream applications and behave like desktop? If yes, then yeah it can replace the PC. But again, when there was DEC VAX and VMS machines, PC was the mobile equivalent at that time, I love this concept of Atrix though. In future, I don't probably need to dedicate an entire corner for my PC all I need is a display at home and I can carry my PC and plug it in when I am home.

    1. Re:sure it can, but! by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      I am a developer and a researcher. I install (and uninstall) softwares day in and day out.

      I'm with you there, but...

      So the question really is can it become mainstream?

      Wait, what? You just said you're a developer and a researcher. You're not even close to mainstream. This thing becoming mainstream is entirely orthogonal to whether it can replace a PC for you.

      I'd rather it didn't become mainstream, but that's not really up to us.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  38. Online LaTeX providers? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

    There are online LaTeX providers? I've got to keep up.

    1. Re:Online LaTeX providers? by brokeninside · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Online LaTeX providers? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Interesting, thank you!

  39. Wow, this reviewer is REALLY trying to like it by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This guy is stretching and distorting the truth to make the review positive.

    An example, he only mentions the SUBSIDIZED cost of the phone but uses this price further on to compare it to a netbook BUT does NOT then use a subsidized netbook which do exist. This is like comparing two cars and taking the lease cost of one as being different from the purchase cost of the other. Well duh.

    He then claims that 400 dollars for the dock is cheaper then a netbook... except a netbook is both complete and not just a dock and 400 dollars is also the mid range price for a netbook. Was he looking at Vaoi's perhaps? I can find 200-300 dollar netbooks with ease and totally "free" ones if I buy them with a phone subscription.

    He then goes on about Firefox Linux not being able to run Java. Is that so? Gosh, what am I running then? What he really means to say is that this dock can't run java apparently for some reason. Firefox and Linux can't this hardware he is trying to like can't.

    Really, the most standard, cheapest netbook can do what this thing does and WAY more. Even the multimedia dock is expensive. I still have all the cost and hassle of carrying a netbook besides my phone but without any of the advantages. Like oh say multiple video outs because on the move I can't always dictate what inputs are available for a screen.

    And this thing as far as I read the review can't even do video. What a LOT of people seem to want netbooks to do is output video, considering the demand for 720p capability which the first netbooks lacked. What is this multimedia dock going to do for me on the move?

    We have heard the "PC is dying" speech before and so far, it hasn't happened. That is because the PC, netbooks and laptops are very very good at serving the edge cases, all those uses to which we put our hardware that some exec at MS/HP/Apple or whatever didn't dream off. Just compare Android's gmail app with regular gmail AND especially a tricked out desktop with gmail tied in. It is clear gmail the app is the light edition. Sometimes that is handy but only if the ease of mobile access makes up for the restrictions.

    But if I need a bag to carry a dock or whatever around, why not just carry a cheapo netbook and be done with it.

    To me, a phone as a PC will only become intresting if I can skip the dock and hookup the phone directly. THEN I can use it as a tiny laptop.

    The end of the Wintel domination? Not yet in sight. With efforts like this, I doubt it ever will. Come on, would it have been that hard to implement some more basic Linux apps?

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  40. ...but does it get phonecalls? by headpushslap · · Score: 1

    Watson, come here, I need you!

  41. Not when it has a $50+ data plan per device by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    Not when it has a $50+ data plan per device.

    ATT DataConnect 4G is $50 for 5GB then $10 per GIG.

    And they are selling this with a a two-year contract.

    1. Re:Not when it has a $50+ data plan per device by hkeacc · · Score: 1

      Not when it has a $50+ data plan per device.

      ATT DataConnect 4G is $50 for 5GB then $10 per GIG.

      And they are selling this with a a two-year contract.

  42. What's the point? by hawguy · · Score: 1

    I don't see the point of this phone -- why run apps from the phone at all when it's in the dock? Put a powerful processor in the dock and run the apps on the (presumably much faster) dock processor when the phone is docked -- mount the filesystem from the phone so all of your files are available.

    Running apps (except firefox) from the phone itself seems like a gimmick that doesn't really accomplish anything useful.

  43. Considered and rejected by mykos · · Score: 1

    For a long time, I was really excited about this.

    However, I can't bring myself to commit to a two-year contract (with a maximum of 4 GB of data costs me an extra $50 per month) when my phone does what I need it to do now.

    Besides, in the next 8-10 months, phones with 28nm transistors and quad cores will be around. Not that I'm waiting on the technology, but when I do buy into it, it's going to be for something worth it to me.

  44. Joke right? by __aazsst3756 · · Score: 1

    What your really asking is if the end of the pc era is in sight. It will not be as dominate, but still exist. Will this toy do it? No flippin way! By Christmas it will be a footnote in history.

  45. F*** Motorola. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would I want to wait a year between updates on my PC, too? I'm already trying to get rid of my phone to switch to an HTC.

  46. Why care? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1
    The way things are going my next phone will be an N900.

    Given multicore ghz processors and large memories why the hell do we have to continue to tolerate bastardized java, incomplete c libraries and vendor specific languages (objective c/.NET...) for mobile platforms? Why exactly? Android interoperability is a fricking sorry fragmented mess which drifts further from linus's tree with each passing day... while Windows 7 and iphone are restrictive walled empires.

    I question the very premise of why there needs to be any distinction between PCs and mobile devices at the system level. You should be able to scale UIs and do reasonable power management without having to rewrite everything... There are enough transisters in todays mobile devices to make it work.

  47. For Sure by wzzzzrd · · Score: 2

    The end of the Windows hegemony is in sight.

    Where?

    Over there!

    Still can't see it.

    It's right beside the year of the linux desktop!

    Ok.

    --
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
  48. standards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want this, but instead of the dock use standards. A tablet with HDMI out and some USB ports would be far better.

  49. O.o by lennier1 · · Score: 1

    My next PC? Somehow I don't see a toy like that replacing a triple-screen 3D workstation.

  50. Price of mobile data by tepples · · Score: 1

    Storage? just use the cloud. How much space do you need in a consumer device now that media is generally streamed?

    At typical U.S. prices for 3G data at single-digit GB per month? Lots.

    the future probably isn't so much with a dock that allows for bigger and better I/O as it is a way to connect the smartphone to the PC so the actual run state of a program can be shifted from one device to another similar to dragging a window between screens of a multi monitor setup.

    Which, if you read the featured article, is very much how Firefox on this device works.

    1. Re:Price of mobile data by shawb · · Score: 1

      I was thinking Wi-Fi

      Didn't get that far... I get really annoyed by articles that are split into pages just to get more ad hits.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  51. Re:Look, HERE is the TRUTH.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would probably get that tumor checked out if I were you.

  52. No GPS by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    I was thinking of getting one ... also pricey too. I do not want the laptop accessory that is $600 for it. A little too silly and smells desperately like an Ipad/netbook wannabe. I can get a non DRM Asus EEE netbook for half the price with Ubuntu.

  53. Atix 4g got rooted even before its out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    check the complete details of artix 4g rooting and guide to do it here
    Complete rooting guide for artix 4g

  54. Way to split up the java. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too bad android didn't use a more pure version of java if its going to be replacing desktops.

    Now I'll have to make a java and an android version of programs i want to be usable on all desktops.

  55. Who cares about open? by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

    Seriously, I've been posting for ages that I want almost this exact device, but it should run Windows Phone 7 on top of Windows 7 (Windows Phone 7 is really mostly a .NET based window manager with apps) and that it should :
      - Have wireless charging so I can leave it in my pocket and have a charger in my chair
      - Have wireless HDMI (whatever flavor is the flavor of the week)
      - Have wireless USB (bluetooth is too damn complex and even still doesn't work worth a shit) for keyboard, mouse, etc
      - Should run on a single core in power saving mode when operating as a phone
      - Should run on multiple cores when either charging or there is an explicit need for it

    Android is interesting, but there are some real problems with it :
      - You need a PC to program for it. You can't program directly on it
      - There are no IDEs for Android and therefore even with an Android tablet or a PC running Android, complex projects can't be managed
      - The window manager on Android (including netbook versions) is not suited for coding, debugging and emulating. You'd need something more conventional
      - Android doesn't have any natively hosted compilers that I know of.
      - Android lacks desktop style applications. Even with Google working like mad to solve this, it'll be years before their army of coders will make apps that are mature
      - Making Android into a desktop operating system will fragment Android so much that developers will be confused as to which Android platform they should code for
      - Cloud computing requires an Internet connection so, cloud apps are pretty useless for people who do things like travel through tunnels occasionally or visit cabins, travel to other countries and disable 3G to avoid roaming charges, etc..

    1. Re:Who cares about open? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      Interesting post - I agree with most of what you said except the windows part.

      This is why a lot of people were so excited about Maemo, if you look at the N900 and N95, they were billed as computers that also did phone stuff. As they were full-blown Linux under a pretty phone-GUI, you had all the benefits of the existing ecosystem of,w ell, everything you could hope for. And you got to get away from the Windows monopoly (which is really a good thing, all in all)

      Android is focussed on being a phone OS, and competing by adding feature after feature. The time's not quite right for a phone that is your desktop too, but there are good first steps taking place now - eg this Atrix - and if they prove slightly successful, you can bet that OSes like Android will add these capabilities in the future - to stay competitive.

      Google is also working on its Chromium OS. No-one quite knows if they'll keep that going, or if they'll fold parts into Android to give it the desktoppyness a docked phone needs. Either way, I doubt it'll be fragmented - it'll just be Android v5 that has much more features than before, that's no different for existing version problems that every OS has (eg you can say Microsoft has the same problems - do you code for W7 only, or do you maintain backwards compatibility with Vista, or XP)

      Come back next year and we'll see.

    2. Re:Who cares about open? by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      Actually, I code for Windows, Linux, Mac, etc... I just really prefer doing it from within Visual Studio :) I have a bit of an addiction to good debuggers :)

      What Windows monopoly? I've been using computers for 30 years and never once have I felt that Windows was a monopoly and hell, I worked for Opera Software for 6 years. For the entire duration of that time, I've had the choice of Windows, Mac, Unix, Linux, QNX, BeOS, etc... I typically just come back to Windows over and over because I find it to be a better solution than the other platforms. Yet, I entirely skipped over Windows 2000 and used Linux instead. Mac OS X is nice for running my projector in the movie room of the house, but on my Mac Book I run Windows because I like to actually get things done. I run a side business developing primarily for Linux, though with the exception of the drivers I write, I do all the development from within Windows.

      The time for the mobile phone OS is over. I have a simple iPhone 4 in my pocket. It's running a 32-bit 1Ghz processor with 512 megs of RAM and has 32 gigabytes of Flash. It runs Mac OS X and uses a custom Window manager suitable for phones. If speculation is anything to go by, in another year, I should have a 64-bit dual core 1Ghz processor with 512-1gig of RAM and 64 gigabytes of memory in that same pocket. Let's not forget the GPU which appears to be a full OpenGL 2.0 capable core with shaders, hardware based H.264 encoder and decoding etc...

      Why the hell do I need a separate PC?

      BTW.. tried Maemo. I completely disagree with the "pretty" part of your description of the phone GUI. It's been 12 years since I felt Nokia knew how to make a user interface.

    3. Re:Who cares about open? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      snap. me too - I like VS (but the newer versions aren't as good as VS6 was)

      anyway, the problem with phone OS v traditional OS is stuff like battery life and application bloat. My W7 desktop is as fast as my old Win200 box, yet there's 10 years of hardware improvements in there. I don't see too much improvement in the software that I would say is such a huge difference to warrant all the extra hardware. This applies to phones as the hardware they have (and can support) is roughly the same as the hardware my old desktop had 10 years ago. I doubt we'll be able to get away with the assumption that HW will continue to improve liek my desktop HW did in the past - as a result, we do have to get back to 'basics' in coding and app design.

    4. Re:Who cares about open? by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      I'm not too sure about the hardware improvements though.

      It appears that the next generation of mobile GPUs that are due to ship this year are no small improvement. PowerVR series 6 claims to be 100 times faster than the PowerVR 5 in the iPhone 4 and that's per milliwatt. While that statement is most likely a great exaggeration, it will still be a huge processing improvement. They claim it is capable of 210 GFlops performance.

      NVidia is claiming similar or better numbers for the Tegra.

      It should be much easier to do scalable cores in the CPU for mobile than it was for desktop, so it should be pretty straight forward to shut down all unused cores and only run a single slower core most of the time. This would be great for battery life.

      Just give up on the "back to basics" idea in coding. It's not going to happen. More and more "engineers" are graduating the university with almost no actual programming experience, not even knowing a programming language. Many more or graduating without understanding how to code without depending on garbage collection. Tons are utterly oblivious to basics like data algorithms and prefer to just randomly pick and choose the first template they find which will do what they need.

      Programmers are NOT generally getting better. Instead, they're being taught and learning to code quickly and complete tasks because performance doesn't matter in a world where a telephone has gigaflops of processing power.

      The good news is, that on the desktop side of things, the systems have become so powerful now that 5 year old computers are running the latest OS pretty well. There's no great benefit to buying a new PC every year anymore. Hell, my Core i7 notebook needs to be disassembled and blown out, so it's sitting on my kitchen table, in the mean time I'm using a 4 year old Core 2 Duo to code and play games on.

      Phones will catch up fast to that I think.

    5. Re:Who cares about open? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      Just give up on the "back to basics" idea in coding. It's not going to happen. More and more "engineers" are graduating the university with almost no actual programming experience, not even knowing a programming language. Many more or graduating without understanding how to code without depending on garbage collection. Tons are utterly oblivious to basics like data algorithms and prefer to just randomly pick and choose the first template they find which will do what they need.

      I know, and it hurts just to think of it... and to do the code reviews for our Indian "team of highly trained developers", the same goes for most of the contractors we hired a while back.:(

      Phone devs are likely to be even worse - as phones only have solid state storage, we'll start to see apps that consider i/o to be irrelevant from a performance PoV.

    6. Re:Who cares about open? by Rysc · · Score: 1

      I had been hoping that your phone scenario would happen with Meaemo as the OS. It was looking for a while like it could: The entire stack is stock desktop stuff, they threw on a pretty decent mobile UI. All they needed was to support some protocols for stuff you mention (wireless video out, wireless keyboard and mouse, wireless data transfer, etc) and port existing Linux desktop apps to it--mostly just a matter of a recompile, but making them detect whether a big screen is present and automatically choosing the full or mobile UI would be better. The protocols aren't quite there yet, but they will be and then you'd have a great "I carry my environment with me" thing going, without having to haul a laptop around or fiddle with cords. Except for power since wireless power is nowhere near suitable.

      But Maemo got dumped for Meego, which could still have done it, but Nokia doesn't care about Meego any more and doesn't seem to have been interested in this target audience. The last hope for this is that Intel will pull it off but I, frankly, don't think they have it in them.

      The rest of the mobile OSes on the market just aren't suitable. You say Windows 7 is, but I say that it's not free enough for me and that I desire a future where the OS is from multiple vendors, so I count it out.

      --
      I want my Cowboyneal
    7. Re:Who cares about open? by Peter+Amstutz · · Score: 1

      Windows Phone 7 is Windows CE, not Windows 7. Possibly the Windows Phone 7 stack could run on (desktop) Windows 7, but that's up to Microsoft. I contend that Android is much more likely to scale up to the desktop than Windows Phone 7 ever will (given Microsoft's business history of protecting desktop WIndows from all competitors, often including other Microsoft products).

      Android is Linux underneath, so there is no reason you couldn't embed it in a conventional Linux desktop stack, which is essentially what you are suggesting Microsoft should do. People have installed the Debian-ARM userspace on Android, which presumably includes the gcc toolchain (I don't know about the java and dalvik tools, though). I also believe there is no technical barrier to having multiple apps visible at the same time, it just hasn't really made sense until recently. Look at what the Notion Ink Adam tablet can do.

      I agree that on larger screens (tablets, desktops) the Android UI needs a multiwindow or multipanel mode; for certain tasks you really need to have multiple applications open side by side.

      The lack of "desktop style applications" is simply due to the fact that prior to Honeycomb, Android hasn't been focused on large screens where "desktop style applications" make sense. I'm sure iOS didn't have any "desktop style applications" prior to the release of the iPad.

      I think the future is bright for scaling Android up; it has already overcome some of the key obstacles faced by conventional desktop Linux (lack of pre-installed devices, lack of mass market commercial apps) so if Android goes to the desktop (with the necessary UI enhancements) then users and developers will follow.

  56. Re:Look, HERE is the TRUTH.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My cock weighs 6kg!

  57. Windows is still around? by gig · · Score: 0

    I guess since Apple is bigger than HP+ Microsoft and 9 out of 10 $999+ PC's are Macs and iPad has created a whole new PC category that doesn't even have a Windows machine in it, I thought the Windows hegemony was already over. But now that Motorola created a 7th way to run Firefox without Windows (wow!) then I guess that was the final nail in the coffin.

  58. Also what's the point? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    I fail to see the reason behind having your phone as the be-all, end-all of computing. Let's say it was possible, let's say a phone could run everything you want, play all your media, etc, etc. No compromises. I STILL think we'd have other systems. Why? Convenience if nothing else.

    For example: Suppose your phone is your media player. Easy enough, HDMI out and a powerful enough processor and there you go. Wonderful! Watch all your media anywhere... Except now when your kids want to watch a movie, you have to hook your phone to the TV. Phone call comes in while it is happening? That's a problem.

    Or, you could just have a Blu-ray player or device like it that'll play all your disc based media, and stream from a file serer or Netflix or Vudu, or whatever. Do you have to own another device? Sure but it is worth it for the convenience.

    Same shit for a desktop computer. So you are going to want a keyboard, mouse, monitor, maybe speakers, and so on all set up anyhow, that's kinda the point. Much easier to work on. So again what is easier: Having a system that's there, hooked up, and ready to go that anyone can use, or having to hook your phone in, only to have to remove it to do other things (like, say, make a phone call)? Also please remember that supposing we get to the point where a phone is really as capable as a desktop/laptop (which we are nowhere NEAR now) that will by nature mean that they will be very cheap as well. If you can put the hardware in a $200 phone, you can probably but it in a $150 or less computer since you can dispense with the radio, antenna, and so on.

    Heck, just look at a kitchen. In my kitchen I have an oven/stove, a microwave, a toaster, a crock pot, and a bread maker. All those devices perform the same basic function: They heat up food. Of those only the oven is truly necessary. It is the "Be-all, end-all." Anything I can make in one of the other devices, I can make in the oven. So why have them? Convenience. Hell of a lot easier to slow cook a soup in the crock pot than the oven (cheaper too because it uses less energy). The bread maker you just dump ingredients in and go, with the oven you make it by hand.

    Same shit with computers. While I'm sure phones will provide access to more data on the go, they aren't going to replace other devices just for convenience reasons. I don't want my phone to replace my Blu-ray player, I want to be able to stream Netflix (LG BD570, it'll do videos from various web services or from your desktop/server), have my phone ring and pick it up and take a call, and perhaps even leave the room and let someone else resume watching Netflix.

    Of course this all ignores that right now, smartphones are nowhere near computers. Even a basic Atom netbook kills a smartphone in terms of what it can handle, never mind a desktop. Now do you need the power? Maybe not but maybe you do, there are plenty of things to use it on. It isn't a big deal since you can get one fairly cheaply.

    Personally I think if money is a real issue to you, you'd get a cheap cellphone (you can get them for no cost with a contract) and a cheap desktop. That would cost less, particularly in the long run. If money is not such an issue, and you can afford an expensive smart phone, you can probably also afford to have another computer or two and will do so for the convenience.

  59. The Nokia N8 by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    HDMI output, Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Dolby 5.1 surround sound. Plus the standard apps; word processor, calendar etc etc etc..

    And this is today.

    The pocket is the new desktop, and guess what MS effectively bought (for $0), the largest mobile phone producer in the world.
     

    --
    Deleted
  60. Ya well by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    For some reason there's a ton of people who are just obsessed with the idea of a smartphone as the One Computer to Rule Them All(tm). They want a single device that replaces their desktop, laptop, DVD player, MP3 player, and so on and think a smartphone will be it. They've never stopped to consider the downsides of this even if such a thing did work perfectly (which as you noted it doesn't). There are plenty of reasons to want more than one device, ones that are better at some things than others.

    However because they get obsessed with the idea they'll try and shoehorn things in to that model to claim it is the future.

  61. Could replace my netbook by erikdalen · · Score: 1

    At the moment I have a desktop for work and games, and a netbook for mobility and bringing along when travelling. I guess a phone like that could easily replace the netbook, but not the desktop.

    --
    Erik Dalén
  62. Bluetooth by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    for keyboard & mouse is there already. It has TV out, but I'd expect the next (and last meego phone from Nokia which is apparently half finished) revision will have HDMI so a reasonable video resolution.

     

    --
    Deleted
  63. Notebook / Phone hybrid by DrYak · · Score: 1

    No, it can't. But it can replace your netbook or maybe a low powered notebook.

    And some companies like "Always Innovating" are already planning this : Smart Book - MID docking into a tablet docking into a netbook.

    As other company like in todays article start doing it, it proves that the concept is gaining mindshare.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  64. You say that like 32 GB is a lot of storage by brokeninside · · Score: 1

    We're talking a laptop replacement here. Once you start adding apps (OpenOffice, a real web browser, the LaTeX toolchain, etc.), there isn't a whole lot left over for your multimedia library, let alone your favorite Linux distribution.

  65. Re:No.. but (sorry missing link included) by tauntalum · · Score: 1
  66. Docking isn't the way forward... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Bluetooth keyboard + meece.
    DNLA for screen output to your HD TV.

    Auto detection of those = walk into your home, phone connects to keyboard mouse and TV, hey presto!

  67. A real MID/netbook hybrid by kiwix · · Score: 2

    If you're looking for some kind of hybrid that can both fit in your pocket and be used with a real keyboard and screen and run desktop programs, you might be interested in the SmartBook. Unfortunately it doesn't have a phone feature, but it looks like a really great product...

  68. Microsoft Origami concept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Too bad Microsoft never really followed up with their Origami concept they were hyping a few years ago. Looks like the Motorola beat them to it with the Atrix.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXHKCS28z1s

  69. Yay by heson · · Score: 1

    I've been waiting 10 years for this product. The computer is your phone, and you can dock it to a real screen and keyboard for a productive environment. However, Im not sure the atrix is the product for me or if I have to wait for a more capable successor (more likely a mature OS)