Slashdot Mirror
Student Sues FBI For Planting GPS Tracker
GabriellaKat submits this snippet from Yahoo! news, writing "'Yasir Afifi, 20, says a mechanic doing an oil change on his car in October discovered the device stuck with magnets between his right rear wheel and exhaust. They weren't sure what it was, but Afifi had the mechanic remove it and a friend posted photos of it online to see whether anyone could identify it. Two days later, Afifi says, agents wearing bullet-proof vests pulled him over as he drove away from his apartment in San Jose, Calif., and demanded their property back.' Now he has decided to sue the FBI. This story was also covered last year when he found the tracking device."
For the illegal wiretappings, they were fined were $200. How much will it be this time?
The FBI wouldn't be tracking him if he was actually "a 20 year old community college student who has never done anything [wrong]", as the article says. Maybe he's Ahmadinejad's nephew or something. Can we have some actual reporting?
Cantankerous old coot since 1957.
If we're going to take people's freedom away and treat them like criminals, then why the fuck does America exist?
If we're going to act like some police state or other oppressive regimes, then America is dead.
And if you really think we need this kind of monitoring to be safe, I'd like to point out that even the most monitored states around the World aren't any safer - if anything they're LESS safe because it allows for the abuse by the watchers.
If the FBI gets away with this, I'll consider America and Her values to be completely dead as opposed to mostly dead because of the PATRIOT Act.
If they can't find it, it is clearly useless. Or am I missing something?
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Once again the FBI wants to takeover everyones rights. There is no reason for what they did, they're just bullies. Also, first post :D
This guy would succeed in suing the absolute shit out of them, and the agents responsible would be fired (all the way up the chain). The FBI has repeatedly spit on the cornerstone of our legal system which supposedly guarantees a man to be innocent before proven guilty. They have turned it around once again and forced this man to prove his innocence.
Now let's see just how free this country really is.
Reddit post:
http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dmh5s/does_this_mean_the_fbi_is_after_us/
Images of device:
http://imgur.com/OM6nE.jpg
http://imgur.com/sspLU.jpg
http://imgur.com/f4V2T.jpg
http://imgur.com/srhrK.jpg
Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
He should have had some fun, like putting it on a random car at an airport and phoning in a "suspicious device" and calling the local news media. The ensuing circus would be fun.
"Losers weepers; finders keepers." "Posession is nine-tenths of the laws," and so on. Balls thrown into my yard become my property - same applies with GPS devices found in my driveway.
The FBI would simply have to follow "the due process of law" if they wanted their discarded item back. I'm sure that would be most embarassing and reveal things they'd rather not reveal, but then I guess they shouldn't have left the GPS in my yard.
Dicks.
FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
Man presents himself as an innocent victim of the cruel police. Slashdotters lash out without knowing anything about the case.
News at 11.
What we have is a claim that anyone can make versus an organization that is not allowed to talk about it during an investigation ironically to protect that person. What a world we live in.
If the FBI presses charges that explain why they were investigating let me know. Or when they drop their case and can then talk about it let me know. Until either of these are done we are drawing conclusions on half of the story, if that...
--- When you start with the conclusion that you want, then throw out any facts that don't agree, is it true?
If it were me I would have called the bomb squad and made sure all the TV crews were there to see them pull the tracking device off. I think the government and friends have granted themselves far too many powers since 9/11 etc and all of which wouldnt make a damn difference had it all happen again. Its a convenient justification to make it easier for which ever department has the resposibilities to do something that could be a bit easier if they were able to spy on you, read your emails, listen to your calls, check your bank transactions, etc, etc and now track your every movements. None of which is going to stop a guy with a cash plane ticket and a box knife is it now? I think the balance between privacy and security has now long been broken and ever day it seems to be getting worse. Its only when people like this guy stand up and make a point that it shouldnt be happening that something might ever possibly change.
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
they sleep near those TVs. see you at the multitudinous million baby play-dates being scheduled world wide. be there, or be scared?
our intentions for US/you;
1. DEWEAPONIZATION (not a real word, but they like it) almost nothing else good happens until some progress here, 'they' say.
2. ALL BABYS CREATED/TO BE TREATED, EQUALLY. (a rough interpretation (probably cost us. seems like a no-brainer but they expressed that we fail on that one too(:)->) 'we do not need any 300$ 'strollers', or even to ride in your smelly cars/planes etc..., until such time as ALL of the creators' innocents have at least food, shelter, & some loving folks nearby.' again, this is a dealbreaker, so pay attention.
3. THOU SHALT NOT VACCINATE IRRESPONSIBLY. this appears to be a stop-gap intention.
the genuine feelings expressed included; in addition to the lack of acknowledgment of the advances/evolution of our tiny bodies/dna (including consciousness & intellect), almost nobody knows anymore what's in those things (vaccines) (or they'd tell us), & there's rumor much of it is less than good (possibly fatal) for ANY of us. if it were good for us we'd be gravitating towards it, instead of it being shoved in our little veins, wrecking them, & adversely affecting our improving immune systems/dna/development? at rite-aid, they give the mommies 100$ if they let them stick their babys with whoknowswhat? i can see why they're (the little ones) extremely suspicious? many, oddly? have strong inclinations to want to grow up to be reporters of nefarious life threatening processes/'conspiracies', as they sincerely believe that's 'stuff that REALLY matters', but they KNOW that things are going to be out in the open soon, so they intend to put their acute/astute senses/information gathering abilities to the care & feeding of their fellow humans. no secrets to cover up with that goal.
4. AN END TO MANUFACTURED 'WEATHER'.
sorte like a no(areosol tankers)-fly zone being imposed over the whole planet. the thinking is, the planet will continue to repair itself, even if we stop pretending that it's ok/nothing's happening. after the weather manipulation is stopped (& it will be) it could get extemely warm/cold/blustery some days. many of us will be moving inland..., but we'll (most of us anyway) be ok, so long as we keep our heads up. conversely, the manufactured 'weather' puts us in a state of 'theatre' that allows US to think that we needn't modify our megaslothian heritage of excessivity/disregard for ourselves, others, what's left of our environment etc...? all research indicates that spraying chemicals in the sky is 100% detrimental to our/planet's well being (or they'd talk to US about it?). as for weather 'extemes', we certainly appear to be in a bleeding rash of same, as well as that all that bogus seismic activity. throws our advanced tiny baby magnets & chromosomes into crisis/escape mode, so that's working? we're a group whose senses are more available to us (like monkeys?) because we're not yet totally distracted by the foibles of man'kind'. we've saw nuclear war being touted on PBS as an envromental repair (?depopulation? (makes the babys' 'accountants' see dark red)) tool? yikes. so what gives? thanks for your patience & understanding while we learn to express our intentions. everybody has some. let us know. come to some of our million baby play-dates. no big hurry? catch your breath. we'll wait a bit more. thanks.
do the math. check out YOUR dna/potential. thanks again.
and left it at that.
I mean, what are they going to do to you?
Too bad you could not get it onto a plane. I wonder how much trouble you would get into taking it or trying to take it on checked luggage?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
How would the FBI even prove their ownership, if he held back the device pending such proof?
I think, that's exactly why they were "aggressive" and "hostile" to get it back...because they noticed, this could potentially be pretty bad for them (which it was anyway).
Another thing is, what if he had thrown it away? Could they sue him for property-loss damages incurred?? It's your car, so can't you work on it, add and remove things as you see fit?
Okay, so this is going to probably incite some serious hatred on me... But I'm quite unclear about why this is illegal
Yes, the FBI was being creepy and I don't condone what they did... BUT lets look at the facts:
1) It was attached with magnets (ie: no damage to the car)
2) The car was likely in public (i.e. government property) when they did so
3) The device was readily removable and findable, though most definitely "hidden in plain sight"
Is it against the law to put something on someone's car when it is in public? Because I see parking tickets and flyers being put on peoples' cars all the time.
Is the tracking illegal because it follows him home to his own private property? I could see this, but then the US doesn't have any laws about such things as satellite imagery that could theoretically do the same.
I'm hoping there is a lawyer -arm chair or otherwise- around that can unofficially shed some light on where the illegality is involved.
tl;dr: Don't support the act, but would it be illegal if I did this? What would I be charged with? Are we just hating on the FBI?
Should just DHL it to the Iranian embassy or even overseas to China or something.
The more of them that get the hint and leave America, the better.
Are you listening, CAIR?
The question surrounding GPS tracking has been a topic for discussion for a few years now. Last year when this took place, I believe that a California court stated that it was equivalent to an officer tailing an individual, and a vehicle that was on public property could have the device attached to it without a warrant. According to the article, a Federal Appeals court over ruled this and claimed it unconstitutional.
From the article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110303/ap_on_re_us/us_gps_tracking_warrants
"Judges have disagreed over whether search warrants should be required for GPS tracking. Afifi's lawyers say they are filing this lawsuit in hopes of a decision saying that any use of tracking devices without a warrant in the United States is unconstitutional.
The federal appeals court in the Washington circuit where Afifi's case was filed ruled in August that the collection of GPS data amounts to a government "search" that required a warrant. The Obama administration asked the court to change its ruling, calling the decision "vague and unworkable" and arguing that investigators will lose access to a tool they now use "with great frequency.""
I agree with the student and his lawyers, I too feel this is unconstitutional, but IANAL. If his actions are truly suspicious and worthy of tracking, it should have been easy to get a judge to sign a warrant for the tracking. But what the government is doing is building intelligence to help prevent future terrorist attacks. Since the signing of the Patriot Act, many of our civil liberties have been stripped from us and our own government no longer sees fit to work within the confines of the law that has been built off of the interpretation of our Constitution. The govt. is trying to tie this young man to a terrorist cell, and they don't have the evidence to support it.
I mean, what are they going to do to you?
I don't know, like say you are a terrorist and a Unlawful combatant, as such you don't have any rights and put you in to Guatemala Bay prison, torture you there and release you after a few months. If he tries to sue, the Obama administration will pressure the courts to not hear the case and to drop the charges. Oh wait, that was the CIA, o.k. never mind.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
Some balls.
Subtlety is clearly their middle name, and also their first and last name. :P
Amazing how they can't seem to find time to shut down the Saudi religious schools in the US which use blatantly seditious indoctrination, but they can find all the time they need to go after a guy who's probably at worst just a 20 year old punk.
Of course this is the same federal government that can find a 100 illegals at the BP clean up site, but can't find the illegals at the day laborer site down the street from my office which is in one of the areas of metro DC with the largest populations of illegals in the region...
I can imagine this now:
[Man tries to take FBI tracker onto plane]
[X-Ray machine detects unusual item]
[Airport FBI Agent 1 attending x-ray machines draws gun at passenger with tracker]
"FBI: Get down on the ground! That's a bomb"
[FBI Agent 2 following the tracker]
"FBI Get down on the ground! That's not a bomb. It's..err.."
[FBI Agent 1 spins to see man pointing gun at him]
[Both FBI Agents startle and shoot the other]
...
[America Implodes]
'Nuf said.
The system is rigged so that there is no chance you'll succeed in suing the FBI.
So, if you ever find one of these things on your car, call the local police, say "Someone has attached a suspicious device to my car. I think it might be a bomb!" Call the local media so they can come watch the bomb squad in action.
Too bad you could not get it onto a plane
I'm not sure you couldn't. It doesn't contain any sharp edges.
Is a warrant needed to tail someone? Is a GPS device much different than tailing someone in a vehicle?
I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
Talk about gall.
By the way, is it also OK to "attach" a tracker (trojan) to a computer system?
And then when you're caught, demand "your property back"?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Come on... extensive ties to the mid-east... repeated travels there.... and supported by CAIR... OH NO... THERE'S NOTHING SUSPICIOUS ABOUT THAT.
Come on.. Get to it. Funny no one mentions that it's Obama's FBI that did this. Take a look at your reactions when these things happened under George. Nahh, you go getting honest with yourselves and it will ruin your weekend. Move along.
For all anyone knows, they had a warrant. While warrant-less surveillance is a problem, if a judge signed a warrant allowing them to track him, they wouldn't have to notify the subject of surveillance (that would make all surveillance useless).
The GPS device was attached to his vehicle, which is driven on public, state and federally owned road infrastructure. There is no legally defensible expectation of privacy in public places. His car is registered to him, with a license plate that ties him to the vehicle. Tracking him visually by having agents follow him, or tracking him by GPS signal, is nominally different both effectively and physically. There was no breach of privacy, there was no attempt to prosecute this man for anything. The FBI has the constitutional right to track him in public places. The individual also has the constitutional right to avoid being tracked, as this individual did by removing the GPS tracker.
... but that's what the Patriot Act specifically allows.
Now, if they wiretapped his telephones and recorded all of his conversations without a warrant, that might be a little different
Should just DHL it to the Iranian embassy or even overseas to China or something.
Yes, I'm sure that would have worked out wonderfully for him if they thought he actually went to the embassy.
Should just DHL it to the Iranian embassy or even overseas to China or something.
Good idea: confirm to the FBI what they already suspected. LOL
The guy was being monitored... in the FBI's computers, they had his name attached to that gadget. Sending it anywhere other than the police or the FBI would only increase the suspicion, even if he is innocent.
Here's a little advice: if you live in a police-state, don't mess with the police, unless you intend to completely overthrow the system.
Guatemala --- I don't think so
Guantanamo --- Much more likely
and left it at that.
I mean, what are they going to do to you?
Too bad you could not get it onto a plane. I wonder how much trouble you would get into taking it or trying to take it on checked luggage?
Wear gloves and just put it in your carry-on. "What? Never saw it before. What is it? A tracking device only used by the FBI? Where would I get one of those?"
I mean, what are they going to do to you?
Rendition
Guantanamo
Navy brig
Preventative detention
No-fly list
Ongoing harassment
etc.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
From the article: "The Obama administration asked the court to change its ruling, calling the decision "vague and unworkable" and arguing that investigators will lose access to a tool they now use "with great frequency." -This is not a reassuring trend. If the objection was that it was vague and unworkable, that'd be fine. But their objection seems to be that it disallows them from using the GPS without a warrant - which is not fine. Voting for change wasn't supposed to mean "Change my ideals back to what the previous people did."
Also: ". . . the agents who showed up to collect the device were "hostile," threatening to charge Afifi if he didn't immediately cooperate and refusing his request to have a lawyer present" and earlier stated, the agents "demanded their property back." I might just be a first year law student, but if you leave your property in my car, and make no claims to it and abandon it, then it could be mine. Also, the agents only "pulled him over as he drove away from his apartment" probably to avoid the whole warrant issue of collecting it from his apartment. Yet, any time law enforcement shows up, it is my understanding that you don't have to give them any information besides the identify statutes require, like name and maybe ID if your state says so. So I'd sit in the parking lot, and not invite them into my home and tell them I don't want them to search my car without some kind of pretense. Also, I'd turn my smart phone recorder on since we were having the discussions in public.
Perhaps they could have just followed him with a tail to get all the GPS type info, or put a drone over him. I don't think there's an expectation of privacy for the outside of your car, but if it was found in the engine compartment, that might be different. I don't like adding to the car with a device... that seems like some kind of alteration, or trespass to chattels (personal property). Government tort exemptions probably apply for this kind of thing, whether it's constitutional or not.
I'm much more concerned with the adding a device to the personal property than I am the expectation of privacy claim. IF I wanted to follow someone all day, I could collect all the information about their whereabouts.
Well, the battery pack could contain liquids.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
He hasn't committed any crime, nor has government charged him with a crime. Therefore, spying on this man is equivalant to guilty before proven innocent. Same as police roadblocks, wire tapping, and email scanning: they aren't solving crimes; they are merely fishing. And expanding the business of government, which if you look close enough, is the real goal here.
So you can't prove guilt without gathering evidence (let's be realistic and call it spying)? That same argument has been used by political tyrants for thousands of years, and has been used to justify all flavors of government intrusion on the lives of peaceful individuals. I'd trust this man before ANY arm of government. Given the track record of government, I'd trust ANY stranger before I'd trust government.
I would mail it UPS.
As the US economy is deteriorating at an alarming rate your dream will come true pretty soon. Im sure most immigrants will move somewhere you can get a job so you americans can enjoy your food stamps all by yourselves.
Perhaps they'll move to Sweden instead? Oh wait, plenty already have.
The federal appeals court in the Washington circuit where Afifi's case was filed ruled in August that the collection of GPS data amounts to a government "search" that required a warrant. The Obama administration asked the court to change its ruling, calling the decision "vague and unworkable" and arguing that investigators will lose access to a tool they now use "with great frequency."
So the FBI admits they're doing a lot of GPS tracking without warrants.
Would you have put it in the semi with or without permission from the owner of the semi?
Seriously? How did the FBI know it was "removed" then? Where I live, there are enough potholes in the road to separate your tire from your rim.
Anything held on by mere magnets and not explicitly bolted to the vehicle could rattle off and be on the side of the road for days, and then possibly get it itself accidentally attached to a long-distance truck.
I mean seriously -- if this had happened to me, I'd have gotten rid of the thing, and claim I never knew about it, and it must have fallen off the car.
What would the FBI have done if it had come off the car if the young man in question had been involved in a fender-bender? Or, let's say there was a side-impact, and he decided to have the car towed to a scrap yard, where it was subsequently crushed? Would the FBI show up at his door asking for their property back?
I don't know what's stupider: Our attempts at terrorism enforcement, or the government/corporate stooges that authorize this kind of nonsense.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Wasn't he the drummer of that band Alfred Ainstein used to be in?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Full disclosure: I'm a huge privacy advocate - I'm just genuinely curious:
What would your alternative have been, exactly? To the extent of my knowledge in the surrounding events, the FBI has yet to disclose why they were tracking him. Maybe they will never divulge that information, or maybe they will after they actually go to legally pursue an individual or group as a result of the investigation. Now - if you'll agree, I think that their intention remains the major defining variable in this case.
In one scenario (and I'll agree it seems the more plausible), this was part of a wider dragnet cast out and this guy was just one of many picked up in an overarching shouldn't-be-legal-but-is investigation because he had some connection to an estranged relative or associate who was legitimately under suspicions (which is key... this was !legal!, whether those laws violate the constitution or not, it's not for me to decide, I suspect if I was a Justice of the Supreme Court I'd lay the legal smackdown on this bull, but that's another long winded post).
In another scenario, he just happened to buy the wrong things in the wrong order at a grocery store and got flagged. And again, the FBI used the tools that were !legally! available to them to track him and verify their suspicions.
The point I'm trying to make is this: yes I know it's an egregious invasion of privacy - but that's what an INVESTIGATION is. They assumed they needed that information, so they set about attaining it. What would have been the "acceptable" level of invasion of privacy to ensure that this guy isn't some jerk in a sleeper cell? I don't have the answer. I know that this isn't right, but I can't think of a better way to deal with it that would be acceptable to both me, and the fox news watching segment of the population (which seems oddly active in this thread, btw.)
People have suggested all sorts of stuff like that. The fact is, you would be liable for tampering with an investigation and the results could be much, much worse (eg. prison if they wanted to railroad you).
I forget which laws you would be violating but I'm sure if you go back and read the discussions back when this happened you will figure it out.
If this was a private business doing the spying, and not government, would you still hold the same opinion? If not, what makes the private business different, and why don't you hold government to the same standard? What makes you think you can trust government more than the private business?
That's surely the best option:
1) It's the responsible thing to do - you're returning government property to the head of the government.
2) There will no doubt be some fun and games when the people scanning the president's mail find an electronic device of unknown provenance in the package.
walk into an uncontrolled airfield with a hi-visibility jacket on, and i promise you nobody will bat an eyelid...
For no other reason than taking his car to a mechanic to have the oil changed.
Only in Nazi America would something this stupid happen, that student should have shoved the GPS down that idiot agents throat (I know I would have). I'd like to see those dingbat agents try to pressure me, I'd feed them their teeth and send 'em back to Nazi-Land in a body cast.
FU FBI ..|..(^_^)..|..
I would put it on Bill Gates' car. :)
Ceci n'est pas une
They demanded it back? So that's an admission that it's theirs. Idiot move #1. They need to write that sort of stuff off.
The proper answer should be: "My attorney has it. He's having it analyzed by experts."
Next time, have some fun. Stick it to a police car parked at the doughnut shop. Then, make an anonymous call to the cops and report a rumor that some gang members in a couple of black SUVs are looking to knock off a cop to make their rep in the neighborhood.
Have gnu, will travel.
Well I do hope that's not their state of the art tracking device as that thing is huge ! it also does look really like a pipe bomb of some sort so I'd have definitely called in the cops if I saw one of these under my car. I'd make sure to take multiple pictures of the device, and video it being removed, too.
I drive a route that spells out "I know your watching" in letters 5 miles across
xkcd link in 3..2..1
I think the best response is "Yes, track everyone and prevent crime before it happens. Starting with public representatives to make sure they are not abusing the public. THEN we can talk about tracking everyone else."
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Suddenly, I have visions of a Big Trouble ending.
Have gnu, will travel.
I am curious *why* he was being tracked. Sure we all agree that wiretapping and tracking occur, and for the most part are part of the investigative process. Will the FBI have to disclose the "why" (intent) to provide grounds for the legality of it? Is that mixing burdens of the argument? I know over the last few years Cali's been making questionable calls on when and how you can track someone so the area *is* murky.
I would be ripely amused if this student is really a danger.
I personally would have claimed to have thrown it away before I thought of posting the pictures online. Then later on I would have dug it up from the hiding place and taken the batteries for my own uses. I mean, why throw or give away completely functional electronics?
Put it in a box. Bury it.
To be honest I am not sure how it worked, unless they ran an antenna... GPS requires line of sight to satellites to actually work. Probably some super secret FBI technology!
Also how would they get the data out of it? Radio? Unlikely. It probably has a physical datalogger attached to it, which would require an agent to actually go and retrieve it. Its not like they are repositioning satellites to watch you in real time like Enemy of the State or anything. Unless they have some magic FBI technology (which I would suggest they do not), this is fairly passive intelligence. Which is why they want it back, because otherwise they have nothing.
Likely the best response would be "What Box?"
In Texas it's considered justifiable to protect property with deadly force under certain circumstances. Unless they're clearly identified as police, then I wonder what happens when they hit up a militia-type that's more than happy to shoot someone messing with his car at night.
http://www.bakers-legal-pages.com/pc/0942.htm
I mean anyone that uses GPS knows that it can be foiled by simple things like "leaves"....
"So I'm sure I fit their profile."
What type of apology is that?
Does he say he understands that what he does is 'suspicious' behaviour or anything?
How did his mind get that far?
What brainwashing did he receive?
Even I were playing chess-via-snailmail or email with Osama himself (yes, Osama B, Tora Bora, Afghanistan) there would be no real reason for anyone to put a GPS on me.
What has the American nation gotten to?
Mass insanity?
Please think for a while why that man should be labelled 'suspicious' at all. Now what if YOU did the same things for very valid reasons.
Think again...
So why did he cooperate at all?
Why didn't he leave the place and go to a police station?
`US CIA/FBI/secreservcie men shoot civilian while trying to recover GPS-device`?
What sick type of nation is that? (yes, the hostile behaviour of the men that approached the guy could also have come from some evil gangster mob...)
The difference is that they actually had to access a person's private property (his car) and place an unmarked device in it. Any such devices should be clearly marked as government property _and_ matched up w/ a search warrant # which is on file in the same locale as the vehicle is registered in.
I think it would have been far more interesting if instead of removing it, the mechanic had instead:
- rolled the car out into the public street
- called the local police department to report a suspicious, possibly explosive device in a vehicle
- notified the owner of the car and asked for him to coordinate things with the bomb squad
Moreover, the biggest problem w/ warrant-less placement of such devices is that it fails the equal protection under the law test. Poor people park their cars out on public streets or on driveways --- which can apparently be accessed w/o a search-warrant, while rich people live in gated communities and have their cars stored off the street, often in garages which are pretty much inaccessible w/o a search-warrant.
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Actually, when it became public, they confronted him and threatened him with all kinds of legal action if he didn't return the device.
Too lazy to find the news articles. Just Google it.
Beetle B.
Just ship the the GPS unit by the slowest cost ground and sea shipping possible. You want to ship it half way around the planet so "they" can track you. Where's Waldo?
Guatemala?
No way you're putting that up MY tailpipe! But seriously: This looks like a hangout to me - a deliberate exposure intended to lead people to a false conclusion. In this case, that a GPS tracker is much too large to hide effectively. But from a technical viewpoint, there is no reason the tracker has to be larger than a cell phone, because in fact a cell phone can be used as a tracker. "Never build what you can buy." At most the phone would need to be repackaged, with a circuit added (if required) to allow it to charge from a 12 volt source in the car's electrical system.
So in some states your car is an extension of private property and to put something on/inside would seemingly need a warrant. I dint know about Washington, but in my state you have all the same property rights in your car that you do in a home. I would like to think if I found one on my truck I would put it on a tractor trailer or on a ship. More then likely I would have taken it apart.
They come in the dark, only in the darkest.
Why couldn't you get it on a plane?
and you are free to do so without retribution or surveillance - provided you are a white christian.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2013150,00.html
The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves
Wednesday, Aug. 25, 2010
I'd go to the next big port and stick it onto a random freight container!
(captcha was "situated". I swear: the Slashdot captcha generator is sentient)
There's no such thing as "government": It's a collection of people acting like assholes and everyone else letting them.
Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
Heh. When I had to take my car in for service the other day, I literally had over six inches of solidly packed snow and solid ice under my car. They said they actually had to bump my car back in the queue to let it thaw enough so they could crack it off. Bet THAT would damage a GPS!
Yes it would.
Though after commenting, I realized what they are likely doing is using a cell, GPS-assist and 3G to do it. While you wouldn't get a GPS signal down there, you could use a cell with GPS-assist to triangulate location from GPS cell towers, and transmit location data via 3G.
Way to go innovation! Making it easier to spy on me!
... you have nothing to fear ... right? RIGHT?
I guess it would be too late to say "hey, this is getting out of hand!"
I'm not interested in people who agree with me. I would be really interested to hear from anyone who thinks what the FBI, the DoJ and Obama have done related to this is moral, ethical, just, lawful and/or constitutional?
The US government, my government, is a bully. I feel shame.
Actually The GPS on my N900 works though a whole floor of house. My old Bluetooth GPS receiver worked through dense rainforest too, no problems. Considering those situations, I don't see why the trunk of a car would be such a huge obstacle.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
And before any smartasses show up, yes it's cell-assisted GPS on the N900, but I confirmed a lock on 5+ satellites, on the bottom floor of a 2-story house.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
> discovered the device stuck with magnets between his right rear wheel and exhaust.
I guess that if you are going to be suspect of anything, the best thing you can do is move out of USA, and ride a barebones vehicle, like a motorcycle or a bycicle, way harder to plant a GPS device there...
1. Park in some crazy public place. Very popular shopping area, something like Oxford street in London (sorry, don't know any equivalent in this guy's area).
2. Call journalists about bomb attached on your car and how terrified you are.
3. Call police about bomb attached on your car and again how terrified you are.
N900 would have GPS assist not a true GPS. You could use GPS via cell towers to triangulate position. Not sure about your bluetooth. Depends on how dense the tree cover is.
I know some wippersnappers would be talking about accuracy, and they would be arguing about 30cm stuff, and I would cut them off saying that it was me walking with an external antenna that's a meter long, and the point is where the signal is received not where the device is actually located, so its moot.
GPS does not work through solid objects period. Cell with GPS assist in a 3G area, however might work, not as accurate, but for their purposes likely... however a hog on the battery life, which is probably why they found the thing as apparently it had a battery pack the size of a large pipe bomb, and even then would have a very limited effective time span, not exactly the best design.
If you ever find such a device, drive onto the busiest freeway at the busiest time of day, pull over to 'check the rattle coming from the back of your car', then call 911 to say someone has put a bomb on your car. The freeway will be blocked for hours and the news will be all over it. Then sue them while it's hot.
Driving into the middle of a big city in rush hour will do the trick too.
The N900 does have a true GPS, you can disable cell tower triangulation entirely, it just takes much longer to get a satellite lock that way so I always leave the assistance on. I also got a lock once on my old Bluretooth GPS receiver on the ground floor of a two-story house so it must be possible without A-GPS.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Really, Guatemala Bay?
Is that why the post is +5 Informative, because this guy just let us know about another illegal prison?
I don't really drive much or know a lot about cars, but was anyone else confused why a mechanic would check out behind the wheel and exhaust for a routine oil change? Is that normal to do?
I don't mean to detract from the point of the story; it's pretty crazy what the FBI did here, but I'm just wondering whether that's a normal check or perhaps he suspected he was being watched.
this is sick
Israel is the most closed country in the world, and there are bombing there all the time.
So fuck your police state and the horse it rode in on
Ah ok. LOL. But I'm pretty sure the USA have more prison camps around the world.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
don't be quick to judge it is out of order without the full facts here. It is if there was no reason for it but why the f**k would the feds put a tracking device on random civillians car? That is an awful lot of effort, time and money to do randomly. I'm guessing the guy was targeted for a "possibly" valid reason. Not all evidence can be gathered by pulling people in and sometimes covert approach is necessary. Sure I'd be pissed if it was me but there is little reason to do that to me and if I was linked in some way to some major federal crime I wouldn't be surprised even if I wasn't happy about it. Now if it was added to the article that he funded his education from unknown sources and had large funds and seemed to splash out alot but didn't work or have affluent family background, associated with people with prior convictions and so on I'm sure the sympath would change.
I'd mail it off by FedEx overnight to randomly chosen hobbyist experts overseas, maybe the CCC in Germany, any former member of Hack-Tic in the Netherlands or similar groups.
Better yet: on a railroad freight car. Imagine retrieving it when its buried deep in a switching yard. Oops, it just left for ???