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$30 GPS Jammer Can Wreak Havok
An anonymous reader writes "A simple $30 GPS jammer made in China can ruin your day. It doesn't just affect your car's navigation — ATM machines, cell phone towers, plane, boat, train navigation systems all depend upon GPS signals that are easily blocked. These devices fail badly — with no redundancy. These jammers can be used to defeat vehicle tracking products — but end up causing a moving cloud of chaos. The next wave of anti-GPS devices include GPS spoofers to trick or confuse nearby devices."
My atlas is immune!
Such a device already exists. It's called "Indianapolis." I swear, I can never get good GPS signal in that damn town.
a device jamming technology X doesnt just disturb one type of device dependent on that technology, no, it jams ALL devices depending on X
News at eleven..
People, what a bunch of bastards
What's even more disturbing is that the FAA is currently looking to move away from traditional radar and even human air traffic controllers, as part of their "NextGen" system. GPS is just fine as long as there is a redundancy in the system. But the idea of abandoning radar as if GPS were a time-tested system is a little scary.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
mebbe it affects spellcheckers too.
rewriting history since 2109
$30 GPS Jammer Can Wreak Havok[sic]
(Technical): ...which is why they are illegal in nearly every regulatory environment.
(Snide): Gee, I didn't realize a GPS jammer could break an Intel SDK! Oh -- you meant havoc?
ok.... who fed the timecube site into a chatbot ?
The ability to white-noise (or pink-noise) jam GPS has been around and employed for, literally, years. And, most of the first of these I saw came from China, too. GPS is a relatively fragile system, at least n the L1-C/A world: GPS satellites have limited power budgets so signal levels are low on the ground. Receivers have high gain. Multipath in urban environments can confuse receivers. Emitting a random noise signal over the range of L1 frequencies isn't that hard, and doesn't take much power... or antenna height... to cause problems.
The article makes all of these points. Read it and take note of the fragility of the system. That's its downfall, not a $30 device.
Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by tenure.
messing with air-traffic controllers can get you some hard time. I think it's federal pound you in the ass time.
or just run your jammer at 100 watts
$20 for a GPS jammer? $25 for a cell phone jammer? I wish I would've caught these when they were on sale at Meritline - I would've got one of each. They're cheap enough that the range probably isn't that great (the GPS jammer claimed 10-15M and probably isn't even that) but for that price I wouldn't care.
they can be used to trick china and great britain to the brink of war by fooling the royal navy into invading chinese waters. then a stealth boat can make the other side think someone is shooting missiles at them. all of course, so rupert murdoch, i mean, uh, elliot carver, can sell... newspapers!
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Military has its own encrypted channels for GPS signals. Same satellites but not the same signal as consumer devices.
However, all GPS guided ordnance will fall back to various other methods if the GPS fails (laser, optical, etc). For example, Tomahawk missiles also have an optical map following system. Most (if not all) GPS guided bombs will fall back to laser guidance if the GPS fails.
Maybe it's the X-men character...
Havok is a semi acceptable spelling of the word. It is the source of the word Havoc.
That or the editor plays too many video games.
I want the next gen jammer with built in EMP, cell phone jammer, Universal tv/stereo remote and beer opener.
Make it the Acme and not the Apple. The I-jam will have a per use fee and not work on I-phones.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
A good question. I dread someone coming up with a reason to jam WiFi personally. If that becomes popular, there are a lot of institutions that have (unwisely IMO) elected to shave costs by allowing their wired infrastructure to crumble, and in some cases decommissioning it entirely. Not to mention the slew of applications which only WiFi and 3G are good for.
Someone had to do it.
The article just highlights why radio/microwave interference is taken so seriously by authorities. The fact a jammer costs $30 is moot, buying a jammer is illegal and stupid.
How much gunpowder could you buy for $30 (or just raw ingredients for bombs)?
EMP
good at all frequencies, just not on vacuum tube technology.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
They generally have a backup inertial navigation system to fall back on if GPS is unavailable.
I was at a conference recently where Gen. Schwartz, Air Force Chief of Staff, brought up your point exactly. To combat jamming of a particular system, they are working to build redundant navigation systems into their weapons. So, for example, if GPS guidance fails maybe it switches over to laser guidance, if that fails maybe it switches over to INS.
says that the Navy did this by accident and wiped out vital systems in a whole metropolitan region. Who would have thought that armed groups with very little regulatory control would be such a risk to the civilian population? The $30 device from China story just seems to be some spin to make it sound as though hackers and criminals who buy this sort of thing, and the Chinese government, who don't regulate properly, are the real dangers. In fact it is our own armed forces.
Korma: Good
I'm not surprised by how many devices would use GPS(the ability to get a fairly accurate location fix and a damn accurate timebase for peanuts and an OK view of the sky is certainly attractive...); but I am surprised, a bit, at how many "serious" systems(even ones where hostile action is to be expected, like ATMs, or where failure Just Isn't Acceptable, like air traffic control) wouldn't have some degree of redundancy, if only because of the risk of a cheap GPS module burning some sensitive RF chip because the local arc-welder user fired up again...
Your basic RTC, say, isn't as accurate as GPS time; especially in the long term, or if not temperature compensated and subject to variable conditions; but it should still deviate by less than a second over a day or two of lost GPS(never mind 10-60 minutes of jamming) and can, if needed, retain reasonably accurate time for as long as power holds out, and they don't need much power.
Similarly, today's MEMS accelerometers and on-chip magnetometers/compasses, while you might not want to dead-reckon your way around the world with them, can easily enough compensate for losses in GPS fix over the short term, and can 'sanity-check' abrupt changes in GPS readings.
For static objects(like radar towers) you can basically treat position as a constant(possibly with recalibration from time to time if there are structural shifts) and calculate dish position based on a simple rotary encoder or the like.
Obviously, for space, power, and cost reasons, Joe Consumer's $50 cellphone or $80 dash-nav isn't necessarily going to incorporate multiple layers of GPS failsafe. If the GPS stops working, Joe can just use the meat-coprocessor he stores in his skull to suck it up and figure it out until GPS comes back online.
For more important systems, though, I would honestly have hoped for better, especially in situations(like cell towers and most ATMs) where the equipment itself isn't exactly inexpensive, so $50 or $100 worth of accelerometer and RTC failsafe would be reasonable, and where they usually have a network hard-line. NTP isn't perfect; but it certainly is handy(if necessary, users of dedicated circuits, rather than those who rely on public internet, might be able to achieve even greater accuracy by comparing their GPS time with the GPS time reported by the hardware on the other end of the circuit, to determine the round-trip time fairly exactly...)
Also, the "backup" gyrocompass mentioned in TFA, that failed to act as a backup to GPS because it crashed when it lost GPS signal is just sad. Perhaps it was purchased from the same company who provides emergency generators that can only be started by mains-powered control systems?
I want to just mount one of these on my mailbox so I can give my address to people using GPS to find me and say "when your GPS freaks out, you're here."
Why would an ATM need GPS? Isn't their IP address sufficient? How idiotic to think an ATM
needs anything else other than a secure, encrypted connection.
Oh wait, there must be many ATM thieves who take the machines from their original location
and reconnect them to the grid. LOL
How about this? http://www.jammer-store.com/gps-blockers-jammers.html Don't know if these are actually available in the US. Could be they are blocked like high-power laser pointers etc.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
I believe it was here on /. that is was mentioned that iRaqi insurgents are already using systems like that. Both to thwart attacks and to screw with deployments.
Mind you, there are plenty of situations where you'd rather a missile hit your jamming tower than the intended target. Maybe that's not such a dead loss.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Last week South Korea believes North Korea was testing their new GPS jammer from Russia.
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/03/07/2011030700567.html
Then my next missile will be a 100KiloTon yield. Jam away at 1000 watts, I'll be close enough to vaporize you.
Remember the answer to a technical foe is by being crude. They have a lot of tech to make your missile miss the target, make the missile big enough to include the target even at the widest miss.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Why would ATMs need GPS for accurate timing?
They don't. Article is wrong.
There is a strong trend recently to install GPS-based trackers inside the unit, and if they start moving, call the cops on the included cellphone.
Assuming you're not using the jammer to steal the unit, the only other use for jamming the GPS, is as a denial of service.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
If you bothered to read past the first page, you would have found out that the $30 box from the evil empire was shutting down Newark Airport twice a day because a truck driver was using it to defeat the toll transponder on the NJ Turnpike next door.
Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
I'll bet on the latter. It seemed perfect normal until someone pointed it out.
They jammed us!
Jam? What type?
Razzberry!
Only one man dares to give me the razzberry........ LoneSTAR!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Why would you want one other than to just be an asshole?
Finland has had plans to introduce a road toll system based on GPS. If that happens, spoofing/jamming GPS will save you a lot of money. As a side-effect of everyone using blocking devices, nobody will be able to navigate anymore :)
GPS guided ordnance seems absurdly vulnerable to jamming and interference to me.
It is. Which is why such ordnance generally doesn't depend upon GPS, if it uses it at all.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
or just run your jammer at 100 watts
The FCC will appreciate that I'm sure.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Yes! My GPS constantly thinks I'm in South America or somewhere in Europe when I'm in the United States! Uhg! Directions: 1.) rent a canoe 2.) canoe across the pacific ocean...
You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. -Plato
it says that it was causing one particular software application to shut down, not the airport itself.
Korma: Good
The trick, then, seems to be to have ... wait for it... Two missles!
Plus let's forget that if you are close enough to jam it, then even a ballistic trajectory will bring it in close enough to the target on it's own.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Deal Extreme has a few.
High Power GPS Blocker with AC Adapter and Car Charger $26
Mini GPS Blocker (with AC and Car Charger) - $105
Super Mini Cigarette Lighter GPS Blocker - $80
Or check out their full line of GPS and Cellphone blocking products.
Most people I know have a +/- 1KW Wifi jammer. Since it works at about the frequency of a microwave oven you could dismantle one and not only jam a 1 to 2 km radius (guess), but also destroy them in a 200 meter radius (guess aswell).
You could even mount it on a parabolic reflector and aim it properly for more range.
Of course, you wouldn't want to be near it to switch it on. The radiation would probably mess with your cells.
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
I suspect that there is (in addition to any device-specific fallbacks, inertial, optical, radar, dead reckoning, whateer) one major factor that helps that be less of an issue:
Jamming/spoofing requires emitting an RF signal, typically one stronger than the legitimate one. There are weapons(such as the oh-so-cleverly named HARM missile that are specifically designed to lock on to RF sources and follow them back to their transmitters.
A sufficiently clever opponent could(given the relative cheapness of GPS jammers) try something like spreading hundreds or thousands of low-power units(mandate their inclusion on utility poles and cell towers for activation in wartime, or produce a version consisting of the RF circuit, an antenna, and a couple of big sealed-lead-acid batteries in a cooler-sized unit that can be plunked anywhere), with each unit configured to turn itself on and off randomly and fairly rapidly, providing an overall storm of RF noise; but no terribly useful targets...
Big jammers, though, would be among the top targets for anti-radiation missiles and small ones(say vehicle mounted) would likely be too short ranged to be effective until the weapon being jammed was already too close for comfort.
Directional antennas might also come into play... Your basic consumer GPSes tend to have at least modestly omnidirectional antennas; because it isn't acceptable for a consumer product to require a plumb line and a knowledge of geometry just to get working and keep working. Something like a missile or drone aircraft, though, might well make use of the fact that(unless the enemy still has enough of an air force that they can afford to keep electronic warfare aircraft lofted...) GPS signals come from space, while jammers are on the ground...
Then my next missile will be a 100KiloTon yield. Jam away at 1000 watts, I'll be close enough to vaporize you.
Remember the answer to a technical foe is by being crude. They have a lot of tech to make your missile miss the target, make the missile big enough to include the target even at the widest miss.
OR, use guidance systems that are completely self-contained (inertial dead-reckoning, computer vision, etc.) so that GPS is completely irrelevant. Cruise missiles hit targets from substantial distances without having any need for GPS input.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Correct ink colors to print on the money as it's dispensed DUH!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Very, very FCC non-compliant. Possibly other crimes as well, if used with specific intents(skimming tracked goods, shutting down airports, etc.)
Because they are relatively simple to build, and pretty cheap to buy, and virtually impossible to detect unless operating, enforcement of that fact is pretty spotty...
I don't see how GPS jammer can be positively useful, but a cell phone jammer is dream come true...
People forgot about it due to the ong solar minimum, but if this many things are dependant upon GPS, they're going to want to find some contingency plans:
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Oh good. So the $200,000 weapon will become the $400,000 weapon. All to drop on a single idiot with an AK-47 hiding in a house.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
You could also build your own. The Wave Bubble is a *bit* fancier than those devices, but since it closes the loop on jamming frequency, you're almost guaranteed it'll be dead on.
If you really want to mess with ATC, you can do it far easier than a $30.00 short range jammer.
Go to hobby shop, buy a few large model rockets. build them.
Go to grocery store, buy a roll of aluminum foil.
feed aluminum foil into a crosscut paper shredder to create "chaff". (I can tell you how to do this successfully, but wont to keep the complete idiots from trying it.)
Load the chaff into the ejection chute tube for the model rockets. (again, there is more to this, but idiots will never figure this step out as well.)
Launch. laugh with your buddies and get ready to enjoy your time being anally raped by big bad bubba in a federal prison.
This will screw with ATC in a big BIG way. they will find you, they will taze you about 900 times on the way to the jail, then they will taze you just for fun, and the judge will taze you out of spite in the courtroom, your lawyer will also probably taze you as well, before you go to a big bad prison.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
aka the carjacker's toolkit
What? Oh don't give me that indignant look. Post examples of perfectly non-questionable uses for these things instead. ('research' is a given and entirely too vague)
One of the reasons for encrypting the accurate GPS and adding an error to the public version was that in order to take out a hardened silo, an offensive missile needs to strike the ground within two meters outside the hardened lid of the the silo. It then penetrates the ground and explodes alongside the body if the silo, which is softer than the lid. That accuracy might be hard to achieve purely ballistically,
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
But i think that this is not what you were expecting.
HermesPod: Free Podcast Download Manager for Windows
What competent engineer would design an important system that depends on GPS, with no backup? The satellite signals are very faint, and can be disrupted for seconds or hours by lots of different causes, including entirely natural causes like solar flares.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Why would people talk so loudly into their phones on public transport, etc, other than just to be an asshole? It works both ways.
which is totally what she said
This is just what we need, a cheap way for idiots to troll OpenStreetMap surveyors...
Furries make the internet go.
Hah! I foresaw your childish trick, and have in fact installed ... wait for it ... two jamming towers!
which is totally what she said
So they can be heard over the background noise of engines and whinging - HTH.
Nobody at Slashdot reads these things. That's why the Dance with Dragons story from a few days ago had a summary that was proven completely wrong by the very first line of TFA.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Military has its own encrypted channels for GPS signals. Same satellites but not the same signal as consumer devices.
While this is true, it just means that you need to jam a different frequency. Encryption has nothing to do with it as you aren't trying to access it, but DoS it. The reasons that the military runs its own separate GPS are for better accuracy (civilian GPS has inaccuracy built in while military GPS is accurate to within a meter) and so they can shut it down without hurting themselves within a theater.
Yes, but it can't be helped. Empires are expensive, you know.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
To exacerbate your innate frustration with only being able to hear one side of the conversation. That's right - the fault is yours for listening in the first place. :)
Long signatures suck.
Sorry, but a GPS jammer won't help you with 66% of those problems.
Long signatures suck.
Actually this one was pretty clear to me and actually seemed to at least be related to the article, which seems to be the hard part these days with the editors.
The GPS spoofer could also be used for lawful purposes, like providing GPS signal in tunnels and similar places.
HermesPod: Free Podcast Download Manager for Windows
or just run your jammer at 100 watts
The FCC will appreciate that I'm sure.
Considering this discussion was about jamming GPS on an incoming missile. I think I'll cope with whatever fine the FCC decides to charge.
Why would ATMs need GPS for accurate timing?
They don't. Article is wrong.
There is a strong trend recently to install GPS-based trackers inside the unit, and if they start moving, call the cops on the included cellphone.
Assuming you're not using the jammer to steal the unit, the only other use for jamming the GPS, is as a denial of service.
Actually, if you read the article, they do need accurate timing:
"And ATMs sometimes communicate wirelessly, using a time-based encrypted code that requires synchronisation."
Using a cryptographically secure PRNG seeded from a known time as an authentication token is a well-known, and frequently used technique. For example, many of the "keyfob" type tokens such as the RSA SecureID things. (Which didn't use GPS, and instead used an internal clock and server-based skew tracking if I recall correctly, but the the principle is the same.) I don't know enough about ATMs to weigh in on what schemes they actually use for authentication and encryption, but it certainly is plausible some could use a time-based, GPS-driven scheme. And, as a bonus, you then have a GPS in the machine for tracking. :)
If you expect to be able to replace GPS with an Atlas, you won't get to your destination either way.
If you're watching a movie or eating in a restaurant where people need GPS, you should probably go somewhere else.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Current military GPS users have an embedded module called SAASM. It decodes the P-code to prevent spoofing, which is the process of transmitting the code at a different delay to make the device believe it is in a different location. However the current GPS codes are susceptible to jamming where GPS just fails. The M-code, which is partially deployed and scheduled to be enabled in maybe 2014, will really help prevent jamming because of it's large spreading bandwidth.
where for art thou mod points
Never let a mediocre career stand in the way of a good time
If it gets close enough for you to jam it, it won't matter much that you jam it.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
You probably don't want one. A few years ago I bought a cell phone jammer from a company in Hong Kong. The build quality was terrible and I was only able to jam phones within a 2 or 3 foot radius at best. Most of the time the phone would drop signal and then find its way back onto the network in 30 or so seconds. I managed just once to drop a stranger's loud call on the train after dozes on attempts.
Turns out cell phones are designed to find ways around interference. Afterall, my jammer was just like having to deal with 100 nearby cell phones trying to make calls. Some phones have no problem with this.
The real issue is that when you're dealing with potentially illegal items with no brands, there's no incentive to make the product work correctly. I wouldn't be surprised if these jammers sucked also.
Perhaps Samsung is the manufacturer of this GPS jammer, and the Galaxy S was the test unit.
Just.. um... incidentally... if you want to simply jam GPS, your favorite dodgy Chinese drop-shipper should have what you are looking for by name.
If you want to do anything more elegant or sophisticated in terms of spoofing, they probably won't. However "GPS Simulators" are entirely legitimate pieces of RF test equipment, for use by responsible engineers in closed test environments to evaluate the performance of their GPS-using products against an.. um... "variety of input situations"...
Surprisingly, no.
During the first and second Iraq operations, Saddam's forces were using French GPS jammers. Our missiles still hit the target. You can choose a good enough trajectory that when you finally get to the target, and are jammed you're close enough. The distance you can jam for is not that large, and is governed by 1/r^2.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
World Time clocks, usually provided by some standards institute. Duh!
0) Teaching women to use maps. "Gee honey, looks like the GPS satellites are down again. Now look here at this Atlas".
You must not be married.
I gave my wife a GPS so she can yell at it instead of me when she's lost.
Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
Paranoia?
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
GPS is NOT a clock. It MAY include one, but that is not the main function of GPS,
it is an aside issue. "yeah, we include realtime data in our GPS system".
Future versions of position-detection-systems can be cryptographically authenticated to prevent spoofing.
I don't see any reasonable way to totally prevent jamming though. About the best you can do is use accelerometers and the like to guess where you are related to your last known position, and/or have the computer alert the user that it is no longer certain of its location.
As far as ATM machines and the like go, if the ATM machine "phones home" with its authenticated location once a minute, and the phone-home stops, "home" can raise an alarm.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
GPS is a Global POSITIONING SYSTEM. It may have a clock associated with it...but it is not a clock per se.
LORAN is just as susceptible to jamming as GPS signals. You can also create GPS ground stations (much like Loran) that emulate satellites for at least a 2D fix. Add one satellite or a laser altimeter and you have a 3D fix. I think it was reasonable to decommission Loran and standardize on 1 technology, even if we should have ramped up replacement technology like GPS ground stations instead of treating them as a redundant cost savings opp.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Speak for yourself. I just can't relax and enjoy a meal without making sure my restaurant isn't trying to sneak away with me.
And the doctor with his phone discretely on vibrate, who gets called to an emergency in the middle of the movie?
While Microwaves are, indeed, quite excellent fun(It'd be downright unpatriotic to not like cavity magnetrons: they helped defeat Hitler and provide us with nourishing instant popcorn); but caution is advised.
Shockingly enough, microwaves heat moist things. Like Humans. Now, your body has some degree of liquid cooling built in, handily provided by your bloodstream. However, your Corneas are, shall we say, a bit under-vascularized... Unless you really know what you are doing or don't mind having cataracts like your great grandparents before you graduate from high school Do. Not. Fuck. With. Microwaves.(The fact that the magnetron circuit requires a capacitor that stands a very good chance of killing your punk ass if disrespected is just icing on the cake...)
In all seriousness, microwaves are quite possibly the worst commonly available appliances to play junior tinkerer with.
These jammers attack Layer 1 of the OSI. Encryption takes place at Layer 6.
In other words, encrypting GPS would be a wasted effort against these jamming devices.
Life is not for the lazy.
Not news for Nerd Rant 1279:
There are tons on DealExtreme. There is no way they are legal, I doubt they are FCC certified to "not interfere with other radio signals".
To be honest a lot of things can cause chaos, IMO this isn't news, just someone realizing that something illegal can cause chaos, so can guns and a drunk behind a wheel. Just because this is powered by electricity doesn't make it news for nerds.
Missiles are probably smart enough not to use omnidirectional antennas (simply only "looking" up is a big help). Also they have inertial positioning as backup, which will do in a pinch.
The cruise missiles can of course use ground imagery together with map data.
I for one find it impossible to believe that an ATM machine could fail with no redundancy!
GPS weapons usually have an inertial guidance backup. They can "remember" their target if they lose GPS track, although depending on various factors, it may decrease their accuracy a little. That could be enough to save a bunker that requires a direct hit to destroy, but is unlikely to save your run of the mill terrorist in the shacks that they operate out of.
For the most part, GPS is only an enhancement on top of previously existing guidance modes, like laser designation or pre-programmed terrain guidance. It adds to accuracy significantly, but disabling GPS by itself should not cause the weapons to cease to operate effectively.
Shouldn't go to the theater while on call.
This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
jamming wireless signals in the US is a serious felony. even possession of a jammer is a serious offense.
Not me, but, ohhh the possibilities. World domination... The humiliation of my enemies...
Well, you've certainly given me a lot to think about!
SIGSEGV caught, terminating
wait... not that kind of sig.
Doctors have been going to movies many years before cell phones were even invented. I think you need to come up with a better excuse.
six? moran
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I got 99 problems but a GPS aint one
-- Sig under construction...
Yes, and back then they took pagers if they were on call. Before then, they'd leave the address of the cinema with the hospital - if they were needed, the cinema would be called and someone would come and get them from their seat.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
http://www.spectracomcorp.com/ProductsServices/TimingSynchronization/GPSTimeFrequencyReferences/tabid/117/Default.aspx
http://www.tekroninternational.com/gps_clocks
http://www.trimble.com/timing/mini-t.aspx?dtID=overview&
and for the gold:
http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/time/gps/gps-info#tt
Also, I'm fairly sure it's illegal. FCC has some sort of regulations about devices even causing unintentional interference.
Devices that are designed to have interference? Definitely not legal for civilian uses.
This is why we can't have nice things.
All that is "far easier" than spending $30?
Do these GPS transmitters be really up in space? Would it be possible to set up terrestrial transmitters, on mountain tops, tall buildings etc and increase the signal strength?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Really it isn't that at all. A lot of people do the same thing with land lines in quiet environments.. and in fact not all public transport is noisy.
which is totally what she said
How about reading the fine article instead of making a fool out of yourself?
Oh wait, this is Slashdot, one can just throw crap out and expect other to explain. Open the text, search for the second time ATM pops up and you get an idea of what it used the GPS for.
What does jamming GPSes have to do with mobile phone conversations? A GPS being use by someone else is not going to bother you, so jamming it really is just being a dick.
They continue to be extremely illegal. Tread softly.
With $30 jammers, who do you think will win that arms race?
Sorry, was getting out of context with those above talking of wanting jammers that can jam GPS + cellphones + wi-fi, etc..
which is totally what she said
Some comments above were talking about jamming basically everything, so I got a bit out of context and forgot this was GPS only. My bad.
which is totally what she said
"Also, I'm fairly sure it's illegal. "
The terrorists won't be impressed.
So, imagine you have this Electronic Tag which the local judge ordered to be strapped to your leg... if they can't tell where you are, how can they tell if you've broken the curfew restrictions?
The system from which the idea came in order to make the GPS was terrestrial, but it has its own limitations.
Nowadays there is something called Differential GPS which improves the error margin of GPS, but it's not an independent system on itself.
yes I imagine your testicles would appreciate it less than the FCC and I bet you care more about what they think than the FCC hehe
A single idiot with an AK-47 is unlikely to be jamming GPS. An enemy command and control centre might. The enemy might even have the resources to take out your satellites, severely degrading the service over a conflict area. It is an obvious that most guided weapons will need a failover if the GPS system is being jammed or simply isn't working for some reason.
Why would you want one other than to just be an asshole?
To ensure that my mother-in-law gets lost on her way to visit us.
Not sure what "Seinfeldianism" is as I don't watch Seinfeld, but thanks for trolling anyway.
I was thinking specifically of when I was on a long bus ride to London last weekend and some girl was talking loudly to her mum on the phone for half an hour, in an otherwise relatively quiet environment. I put in my headphones. How my real world experience can qualify as beyond "annoyingly stupid", I'm not quite sure.
which is totally what she said
Just because this is powered by electricity doesn't make it news for nerds.
No, but it being a high-tech subject with implications for a massive amount of existing and emerging technologies does.
Yeah, because it's much cheaper to risk getting your soldiers killed in a house assault then spend the $400,000.
It's only not worth it if you consider your soldiers lives to be valueless. If it were you, or one of your family/friends out there, you'd think it was $400,000 well spent.
This sentence no verb.
Its not the volume that bothers me. Its the content, or lack thereof. Always fucking "OH HEY, WHAT UP, JUST ON THE BUS" or "HEY, I'M ON MY WAY HOME... Oh no way, they said that?!"
So boring. Talk about your sex lives (unless you're ugly.) Make something up if you don't have anything. At least offer your insight into, say, current political events. If it's actually insightful, good. If it's idiotic drivel, that gives me reason to feel superior, which is at least a little better than a boring conversation. Naturally it would be better for them to STFU, but I'm willing to compromise.
That's nice and all, but I'm not the author of the comment you're replying to, so I don't know why you tacked this onto my post.
No use calling him, apparently he doesn't know the way to the hospital.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Nearly every guided munition has weapon link radios which are accurate enough to be used for navigational purposes. As long as a certain number of nodes in the network know where they are the rest of the network can extrapolate off of them to get a decent fix. It isn't as accurate as GPS (since you can't put an atomic clock inside every missile and bomb) but it's accurate enough to get all but the most precise jobs done.
If you RTFA, it is likely to screw up the entire Cell Tower, your bank's ATM network at lots of other things you don't expect to rely on GPS. 90% of GPS receivers only use the time signal, and can't operate reliably without it.
I don't see how GPS jammer can be positively useful
Rental Car companies often track your usage and bill you extra if you leave the state(s) you said you were going to use the rental car in. If you're being tracked by the <insert name of law enforcement agency here> you can render their tracking devices useless. I'm sure there are other opportunities to take advantage of the "stealth mode" offered by such a device.
Cell towers use the GPS time signal for hand-over and so on. Electric generators use it to synchronise frequency and phase across the grid. Jam that, and lots of nasty things will happen, not just peoples' sat navs.
Lost people tend to cause accidents, and as one does 90% of their driving within a few miles of their home, you or your loved ones/neighbors would most likely to be the victims. Besides what are you going to do, run power out to it? Change the batteries all the time? I'm sure that these little revenge fantasies look much better in your minds eye.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
A simple solution exists that would prevent these problems, but our government won't fund it (even at 1/24th the cost of GPS) because it's military uses are more limited. Again, billions for blowing up brown people and bailing out fat bankers, not a penny for the general welfare.
What does jamming GPSes have to do with mobile phone conversations? A GPS being use by someone else is not going to bother you, so jamming it really is just being a dick.
From what I've read, it is becoming more common for luxury cars (and other expensive vehicles) to come with GPS-based tracking devices that broadcast their location. Thieves are using the GPS jammers to interfere with these devices - much quicker and easier than hunting for the device and trying to disable it prior to driving away.
I really can't think of a single legitimate reason to have a GPS jamming device.
Cue the next generation LoJack, with a jammer detector, combined with a gyroscope and a good dead reckoning algorithm...
This article deals with what happens when GPS is disrupted due to a localised jammer. Sounds like some serious chaos.
So... what happens when we have a major solar flare that disables a few GPS satellites entirely? Can we expect entire nations to suddenly lose their ATM networks, shipping navigation and air traffic control?
Oh goody. I can't wait for the solar cycle to get going again. And there was me thinking the only thing we had to look forward to were better aurora. :-/
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
Well my wife is not a nagging sort, but she won't listen to the GPS directions for sure. If it says "Turn right.", she says, "No, that's wrong." and goes her own way. Never gets lost though. She won't go on any expressway or over any tall bridges so she can't follow directions that might take her someplace she won't go. GPS is useless even if I'm driving. By myself I use it all the time.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
the post isn't about how to best mess with ATC systems it is about how overreliance on GPS without paying attention to the fact it is failure prone in rl situations and pointing out drawbacks predicated to get worse since. It is feasable people could have jammers such as truckers but when it comes to chaff launchers, floating clusters of foil balloons around runways, explosives etc etc there isn't any reason significant number of Joe Public's are going to be packing them in their car for some other minor infringement such as avoiding tolls. Such things are not uncommon and are thought of as being as "heavy" as stealing cable TV in the minds of many people, the consequences people are oblivious to and completely ignorant of which is more the point of the article. I mean as far as major disruption to cost ratio goes you can shut down an entire airport for the price of a phone call and all you need is to speak a few magic words to get your ass deservedly I may add locked up hopefully in state prison.
then set the GPS preferences to not use major roads?
Ah, my apologies, seems it was pure trollage.
which is totally what she said
My video game experience? Really? I have *actually* been in restricted areas of an international airport. I guarantee you I could have brought that device with me.
they will taze you about 900 times on the way to the jail, then they will taze you just for fun, and the judge will taze you out of spite in the courtroom, your lawyer will also probably taze you as well, before you go to a big bad prison.
Another bad day, eh, Lumpy?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
$400,000 well spent. Yes because eventually the world will run out of idiots with AK-47s - oh wait... Hang on. You mean you seriously believe that, after over 9 years, the US is "winning" the "War on Terror"? Wikileaks did more to turn part of the world on its head in a matter of months than the billions and billions of dollars spent by the US "fighting terror" for a decade. No, it is you who are willing to risk soldier's lives by having them play "peace ambassador" in a nation historically hostile to all outsiders, Me, I would save the bombs for targets that are meant to be bombed - fuel depots, factories, refineries, military bases, communication centers and other strategic assets my enemy would have. Not play air support to a bunch of cowboys who don't even know which bush the shots came from, much less what the hell their strategic mission is.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/143089-fcc-cracks-down-on-cell-phone-a-gps-jamming-devices
and more here
http://www.google.com/search?q=fcc+cell+phone+jammer+letter
http://www.google.com/search?q=fcc+gps+phone+jammer+letter
So if you're a theater owner or office manager and think one of these at $50 is a good bargain, think about $10,000 and two years in jail instead.
Remember that GPS is high frequency and relatively easily shielded. An aircraft can easily be shielded from terrestrial signals and signals from the ground. Many sports bars in the heyday of C band satellite TV put the dishes on the roof, often exposing them to terrestrial microwave links. This is why it was common to see a chain link fence lined with screening on the roof of many downtown buildings.
Normal windshield mount devices are a sitting duck for ground based transmitters. Some Onstar vehicles have upward facing antennas with reasonable side shielding.
The truth shall set you free!
The problem with gas taxes is the differences in gas mileage. And if you have an electric car, you wouldn't be paying a gas tax.
You could, however, avoid having to use GPS monitoring and simply report the total miles traveled based on odometer readings. I believe that there are laws in place that prohibit tinkering with odometer readings, especially if you are reselling a vehicle. And odds are that a road-use tax would have provisions to handle possible cheating, with penalties that make it unprofitable.
There are other tax options available, but gas taxes and road-use taxes tend to be a bit more fair than most because they are based on usage and the actual wear and tear on the road, especially if the road-use taxes take into consideration the weight of the vehicle.
Something tells me they aren't gonna just say "oh well" and leave it at that. They'll investigate why it isn't working, and if they find it isn't working because of intentional interference by you (via the GPS jammer), well, sucks to be you.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
Or are you simply an idio,t and think it's a magical $30.00 device and all you have to do is switch it on?
OK, sure, it's not enough to switch it on. According to FA, you then have to drive past the airport on the New Jersey Turnpike.
And for good reason. I'd like to see the book thrown at any asshole who gets caught using one.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
The problem is that, as the article points out, the jammer also cuts off everything nearby. If the jammer's radius was limited to a few feet so that it wouldn't affect anything outside of the car, that would be acceptable...but using a jammer where it can affect unwilling participants is, at best, a massive dick move that deserves harsh punishment.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Figure that the Navy exercise was one that uncovered some of the flaws in the overall GPS system. They just happened to be using a jammer that was more powerful than the Chinese made $30 jammers. They learned, the hard way, that jammers affect civilian life too, in ways that people don't understand unless they are intimately involved in the field.
I suspect that all military forces are now aware of such things and are adapting their tactics to deal with it. The Navy just happened to be unlucky in the fact that they did the test in the harbor and not further out at sea. Similar testing done by the Army, Air Force or Marines would likely be done in a more isolated environment, where you can simulate battlefield conditions and not be right next door to a major metropolitan area.
But cutting that asshole off - even if it didn't affect many innocent bystanders, as jammers actually do - makes you an even bigger asshole.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
So, imagine you have this Electronic Tag which the local judge ordered to be strapped to your leg... if they can't tell where you are, how can they tell if you've broken the curfew restrictions?
If they can't tell where you are, you're in violation. Automatic incarceration at twice the original sentence. T,FTFY!
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
When listening to half of a conversation, just remember not to laugh too loud when the person says something really stupid. They are likely to accuse you of eavesdropping on what they consider to be a private conversation, oblivious to the fact that half the world can hear them.
If you want to protect yourself from said accusations, carry along a book of jokes or access a jokes website. That way, if they accuse you of invading their privacy in a public place, you can 'prove' that you were doing something else and accuse THEM of invading your privacy.
Alas, there are undoubtedly people out there that are self centered enough to think they they have a right to privacy in a public place while you don't.
I dunno. I think you could pack quite a bit of power onto a truck that had an onboard or towed generator. Thousands of watts, easily. The antenna would probably be the most difficult bit, if you were going to operate while in motion.
It is NOT acceptable for lack of GPS to cause havoc. Especially in San Diego of all places... Where Navy ships have a habbit of continuously emitting harmful interference.
Oh, say, to delay hostile field artillery setting themselves up accurately when they invade my nation?
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
Not for the jammer itself, but considering that a fair portion of the synchronization networks around the world depends on GPS this is kind of scary.
Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
I'm as critical of the war on terror as you are, but you have to remember the military's role in a democracy. It's not their job to decide when to go to war, with whom, for what reason. It is their job to *assume* the country's elected representatives have good reasons to go to war, and to prosecute that war as efficiently (in terms of lives and dollars) as possible.
Exceptions can be made for individual soldiers' conscientious objection, but that cannot apply to the military as an institution. If all it takes to start or stop a war is a hefty bribe to the Chiefs of Staff, we're screwed.
So from a perspective that assumes the war must be fought -- a perspective I totally disagree with, but which the military *must* adopt -- $400,000 to avoid the death of a platoon of highly-trained soldiers *is* money well spent, even from a pure dollars-invested perspective. Adding in some measure of the innate value of human life makes it even more so.
If you don't want that $400,000 to be spent, your beef is with your congressmen, not the generals.
Well, all you need then is a jammer detector detector, or perhaps just brute-force it with a jammer-detector-jammer.
Just tell her that you moved, and get a PO box in another county. That way, even the Google Maps she prints will be incorrect. ;)
That's bound to fail. They'd probably just crash into it or something, and then where would you be?
Better accuracy is part of it, but there's a reason the encryption is called A/S -- it stands for Anti Spoof. It's intended for use against more sophisticated things than simple jamming, though -- "spoofing" is transmitting signals which purport to be legitimate GPS signals, but provide false position readings.
If you can put enough power on L1 and L2 you can still jam GPS with A/S... but I suspect you'll end up with a HARM up your ass in any sort of wartime situation.
Quoted for truth. Do. Not. Fuck. With. Microwaves.
If I was designing a microwave oven, I'd probably stick a big capacitor on top of the magnetron even if it wasn't necessary. Nothing says "you're too ignorant to be playing with this thing" like getting thrown across the room by a couple thousand volts. All things considered, a really nasty electrical shock is far safer for everyone involved -- tinkerer, bystanders, and EMTs -- than letting a kilowatt of microwaves loose in the world.
Cell towers use the GPS time signal for hand-over and so on.
They can, yes. Much more common is for the central node (RNC) to run on GPS time, and the nodes at the towers to synchronize to the ATM link they're hooked up to.
And even if they do run on a straight GPS feed, the hold-over time for the timing circuits is good enough that you probably need to jam it for several days to see an effect, giving the operator time enough to take counter-measures.
mov ax, 4c00h
int 21h
"A single idiot with an AK-47 is unlikely to be jamming GPS."
Why would you say this? A single idiot truck driver was shutting down ATC for an International Airport!
The devices are $30 on Ebay, I just checked, and are no more complicated than plugging nto a 12v source.
So a single idiot with an AK-47 on his back and 8 AA batteries in his pocket could walk around with one of these on all day.
A quick GPS history lesson: GPS signals are spread-spectrum in order to make them harder to jam from a distance. The military goal was not to make it un-jammable, merely to force a functioning jammer to be so large that it could be found and (ahem) stopped. So GPS was built upon the assumption of radiation-seeking missiles to protect it. To deter jamming, they spread the main signal SO widely that it was hard for them to even acquire themselves (back in the day). For acquisition they built a less spread "finder" signal. This is spread over only about a MHz and can be easily acquired. It gives some accuracy, but also gives a timing code to find the second code which is spread over more bandwidth around the same frequency. As an afterthought, they released the first stage (the narrow one) to the public. This first stage is what we all use and love.
"I love his boyish charm, but I hate his childishness" - Leela
So, violate contracts and break the law. I don't know if that counts as "positively useful". In addition, you're kind of glossing over how this would go down. "Our suspect is no longer being tracked by his GPS tag, but his last position was right at the middle of what became a zone of GPS failures. Perhaps we might have to use the same methods we've been using for hundreds of years to find him instead of looking at the GPS readout."
Re: 1984 -- if things were that bad a GPS jammer to fool with your tracking device is laughably token resistance. Re: things are already that bad, no, they're not.
So buy a pair of noise canceling headphones and set the volume on your MP3 player to "ignore humanity". Works great, unless there's a squalling kid next to you, in which case you have to set it to "ignore humanity loudly".
I figure that it's much harder for other people to be d!cks to me if I don't even acknowledge that they exist. And while that may make me an arrogant jerk, at least I'm quiet about it.
John
jamming wireless signals in the US is a serious felony.
OMG, tell me it's not a "serious" felony! Perhaps you have a counter example of a comedic felony? "Well, your Honor, there I was robbing this bank when in walks a priest, a rabbi, and Bill Gates. Oh, hey, stop me if you've convicted this one before..."
John
Then my next missile will be a 100KiloTon yield. Jam away at 1000 watts, I'll be close enough to vaporize you.
Remember the answer to a technical foe is by being crude. They have a lot of tech to make your missile miss the target, make the missile big enough to include the target even at the widest miss.
That's the strength of crude solutions tho, for the amount of money it would take for you to make one missile, I could easily make 5000 jammers. Maybe even have enough left over to bury close enough to the missile's launch point to make the creator regret making such a big bomb.
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
Thanks to cronyism at the FCC, we're about to start jamming GPS everywhere, on a perfectly legal basis.
This is what happens when you hire politicians to do engineering work.
So you're saying that this is an ideal way to fuck with people you don't like if they happen to be under in-house arrest?
Actually, the reason for encrypting the signal is to circumvent the attack where a well funded enemy makes an intelligent jammer that emits a signal pushing the real coordinates just a little off path. Less sophisticated jammers can easily be detected and the GPS can rely on dead-reckoning, but it is much harder to detect clever active systems. By encrypting the signal, the system will naturally be resistant to this attack - while as an added bonus stop the enemy from using the system for its own location purposes.
Before they turned it off, the GPS satellites added an intentional XYZ offset signal into the public stream called 'selective availability'. The purpose of this signal was to keep public (and by extension, 'enemy') receivers from being accurate enough to do as you're suggesting.
Crank it up to 1500 watts, like LightSquared is doing, and the FCC will give you a license and a favorable press release.
I don't know about twice the sentence, but yes,. the entire concept of monitored release and house arrest is that they can reasonably know where you are. If that fails, then returning to incarceration is the next logical step. It most likely will not be one of those, "well, it didn't work, we will just forget he's out there" things like the GP suggested at all.
Have you every considered that those people are simpily organisng people to pick them up, or trying to meet with people and that is why they are using there phone. If someone is callling out of necisity or non-social purpose it is far more resonable then disturbing the peace on public transport for social reasons.
null
They will start by getting very mad at you. Assuming you convince them it wasn't you that did it, they will probably replace the tag. If the tag continues to malfunction, your privileges will probably be revoked and you'll end up back in prison or on traditional parole.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Nothing a $30 dictionary couldn't have prevented.
you had me at #!
If it turns out that I'm wrong, and what I said was otherwise causing other people to be just as misinformed and ignorant as myself.. then yes, I apologise in those cases.
which is totally what she said
State prisons are where all the murders, bank robbers, and rapists go. Federal Prisons have a larger percentage of White Collar Criminals, I think.
I've always been annoyed by that mistake that Office Space only compounded.
I'd think that depends on the situation to be honest. If it was in a cinema for example, I'd really have no problem cutting them off immediately. On a bus, it would depend how loud they were being and how important the conversation was. I was happy just to put my headphones in.
which is totally what she said
How about this? http://www.jammer-store.com/gps-blockers-jammers.html Don't know if these are actually available in the US. Could be they are blocked like high-power laser pointers etc.
What happened to electronics as a hobby thats how I made my first radar detector which were made illegal for sale in my country a while back and these days its easy to find the howto http://www.google.com.au/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gps+jammer+circuit+diagram&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=9a52TaixDoaxcbiG9P8E
Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
Their radar isn't that sensitive. If you aren't running a transponder (which screams out "YO DAWG I'M N545CF HERE I AM!!!!" and "HEY HEY HEY HEY MR. AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER LOOK AT MEEEEEE" when you ident) they can't see you. They can't see a King Air, they aren't going to see a few strips of aluminum foil.
Maybe the volume isn't the problem, it's the music! Trade in your Chopin, Beatles, or [insert current popular artists here]* for Slayer, Cannibal Corpse, or Iron Maiden. You'll never hear anyone ever again!
Just keep it heavy. \m/
* I really have no clue about these. Really.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. -- Mussolini
Because the speakers in phones are always inadequate and people respond to not being able to hear very well by talking louder. That's just fine for normal conversations, not so fine on a phone.
Some specialists in smaller hospitals are always on call.
One causes essential infrastructure to malfunction. The other blocks cellphones.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Jesus those are expensive (and bulky) for what they do. Isn't there a free app for android?
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Have you every considered that those people are simpily organisng people to pick them up, or trying to meet with people and that is why they are using there phone
Not on the bus to the college campus where I work.
I though systems that can separate signals by direction were fairly standard engineering these days? And GPS is a weak signal at a frequency easily blocked in built up areas, so wouldn't multi-path ability help improve reception? I can understand why this would affect old systems, but why are modern GPS receivers so... primitive?
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Stick - Carrot, you be the judge.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
Au contraire! They are a wonderfully cheap supply of large mains transformers which can be used as-is or rewound for every occasion.
So you're saying that this is an ideal way to fuck with people you don't like if they happen to be under in-house arrest?
I didn't put these people in prison. For the most part they did it to themselves. In a civilized society, whatever that means, you act civilized. If you act like like an animal, being treated like one is inevitable, isn't it? Upbringing is partly responsible as is society, however,the individual is also responsible. The idea of free will exists. A person has the opportunity within themselves to excel in spite of the odds. Respect for oneself means respect for others means respect for society. Sure, this is a bunch of flowery sophisms, yet, sometimes a person needs to rise above the mundane.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
What's your point?
You fail electromagnetics forever.
perfectly non-questionable uses:
Keeping the ATF off your lawn
Pissing people off
ensuring your never get to your mother-in-laws house
The most awesome geocache prank ever created
etc... etc...
Taking out GPS won't disrupt the frequency across the grid. It just makes it much easier to keep synchronized. Highly accurate time clocks are kept already at each location and keep time just fine. GPS just helps keep them synchronized. Even prior to GPS we had land-based methods such as WWVB and WWV before that in North America. Again, the time clocks are already highly accurate and mostly need the initial signal just to set the frequency and time and to calculate drift. Here's one such vendor. They'll run just fine for months (years?) without losing frequency synchronization.
Every car thief who's into high end vehicles needs both, the GPS one to avoid the car's system knowing where you drive it, the phone one to avoid the car phoning home.
Ditto for the cargo thieves, since lots of containers do the same as high end cars.
Because they're unsure if the other person can hear them properly and it's easier to shout then the ask the simple question "can you hear me OK" - HTH.
There, fixed that for you.
I do ask if people can hear me because I like talking at a normal level, I'll also tell people when they are shouting at me and tell them to stop it, if they don't I hang up.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I'm as critical of the war on terror as you are, but you have to remember the military's role in a democracy. It's not their job to decide when to go to war, with whom, for what reason. It is their job to *assume* the country's elected representatives have good reasons to go to war, and to prosecute that war as efficiently (in terms of lives and dollars) as possible.
Once upon a time,.
It was an armies job to defend a nation, ensure that it is capable and ready to deal with threats and when war was unavoidable, to win that conflict at all costs for the society it was charged with defending..
When did the army ever require efficiency?. Victory is their only real requirement.
Whilst there are tenants of the total war philosophy I disagree with, it's right in the fact that you cant fight a partial war. If you are not willing to be in a war 100% you are guaranteed to lose. This is why the US lost Vietnam (it doesn't matter how many battles you declared won, or how superior you were on paper, it matters who controlled Saigon now), this is why the US has lost Iraq and ultimately will end up losing in Afghanistan. The vast majority of a population must be willing to submit to a total and prolonged war, regardless as to loss of life or material costs.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Do. Not. Fuck. With. Microwaves.
True. But I think that's evolution at work. In my defense, I said:
Of course, you wouldn't want to be near it to switch it on. The radiation would probably mess with your cells.
Which is an understatement, but a warning nonetheless. Your description of what may happen with your eyes is more descriptive, assuming the casual reader knows what a cornea is.
For junior tinkerer I'd like to advise a Lego Mindstorms set. Not as cheap, but even more fun.
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
Fair enough. I wasn't warning or flaming you, just doing a little PSA(god, I feel so old...)
There are lots of electronics, chemistry, mechanics, etc. tinkering projects that are good, clean, educational fun. There are a lot more that might piss of the neighbors, give you a whiff of exactly why getting chlorine gassed would suck, or potentially give you a scary little jolt. A few might even piss off the authorities enough that you should really do them while you are still a minor, or in the sticks in some relatively laid-back state.
I am wholly in favor of people doing these things. Burning a few chips, causing enough minor property damage to get your allowance docked for ages, maybe picking up a scar or two, all good fun. Bring back the good chemistry sets, the model rockets, and the Van de Graff generators, etc.
I just wanted to note, though, that of all devices that you can pick up used but working on craigslist for $10, microwaves are among the very few that can end a young tinkerer's career good and hard, even just screwdrivering the thing open. If you get past that, you'd better actually know something about RF antenna design and non-ionizing radiation safety before you fuck around with the magnetron.
Like an "Do not Enter" sign, the people to which it does not apply should know who they are. I just wanted to warn the aspiring enthusiast that(unlike, say, the "touching this cord has been demonstrated by the state of california to cause flipper babies and death cancer" warning on extension cords) the warnings about microwaves are Very. Much. Not. Joking. Virtually all other household gear(not currently plugged in to the wall or attached to an active gas line) is safer to play with.
King Pyrrhus would disagree.
Im pretty certain that if you found a seller, and had a place to keep them, you could own an M1 Abrahms, a flamethrower, and an M16. You probably wouldnt want to take them off of your private property, and would likely be partially liable if someone stole your Abrahms and started wrecking downtown, but there are a lot of people who collect the types of guns that you seem to think are illegal.
Regardless, the 2nd amendment doesnt guarentee that every type of gun must be available to you ANYWAYS. Guns as a category are NOT illegal as you stated.
big difference between the 30$ ones, and yours, I believe he was asking for a reference, as am I, I don't believe that you can get some for 30$...else everyone and their dogs would have one....this is why I don't believe everything i read on /., not enough references...!
Guns as a category are NOT illegal as you stated.
A one line quip designed to make a point by using humor are not supposed to be dissected for 100% accuracy either. I'm going to assume, that unless you're a complete idiot, you knew what I meant in the first place.
I'm sorry I didn't go into exact details on illegal gun use when trying to make a point that just because something is illegal doesn't mean people don't have and use them.
Do you spend hours researching the lives of road crossing chickens in your spare time?
....Yes, that’s the device I have been craving, the portable cell phone jammer. Oh, the paintful conversations I have endured....
People talk at a volume appropriate to their own surroundings, and they forget that the other person on the call isn't in the same environment. You usually have to talk loudly in noisy places - turns out it isn't necessary on the phone, but a lot of people don't realise that.
Also, we are trained to treat "half-conversations" as high priority interrupts. If you hear "Hello!" ... followed by a silence ... it calls your "maybe they are talking to me?" handler. And even after you've suppressed the interrupt, it still wakes you up. Really annoying, but kind of interesting once you realize what's going on.
Oh, the paintful conversations I have endured...
Now that actually makes sense. Forget the jammer: everybody who's irritated at some loud-talking cell-phone user should just whip out their paintball guns and toss a few rounds his way.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Guns can be used illegally just as speech can. That does not mean either the first or second amendments have been violated, nor that we live in a police state. My criticism is that your comment was misleading and innacurate, and not in some trivial way-- the Supreme Court just smacked down DCs attempt to restrict firearm ownership, which makes your statement all the more irritating.
Ok, there's this chicken crossing a road, and without going into detail on avian thought, most people believe it wanted to get to the other side.
In our upcoming 12 part series on road crossing chickens, we can delve into this in detail.