Adobe Releases Flash To HTML 5 Converter

An anonymous reader writes "Adobe has released its Flash to HTML 5 conversion tool, codenamed 'Wallaby.' Wallaby is an application to convert Adobe Flash Professional CS5 files (.FLA) to HTML5 and its primary design goals were to get the best quality and performance on browsers within iOS devices like iPhone and iPad."

Comments

Finally, but

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how efficient this is going to be. We don't want HTML5 to get a bunch of autogenerated bogged down code and become the next flash (performance wise, anyway).

Re:Finally, but

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Only time will tell, in terms of Adobe's specific implementation; but given that Flash consists of Actionscript(practically Javascript), bitmap and vector graphics(canvas/SVG), A/V decode support for specific codecs(HTML5 video), and flash cookies/data storage(HTML5 local data store), there is no broad reason to expect that HTML5(at least in the medium term) shouldn't be able to do the majority of Flash stuff(omitting specific cases like some special streaming capabilities and DRM) with efficiency on roughly the same order as Flash(better if the browser maker is more competent/platform integrated than Adobe, worse if they are less competent, or if Adobe's conversion tool produces pathological code)...

Unfortunately, drawing lots and lots of fancy vectors with an interpreted language is always going to be more computationally expensive than more... restrained... tastes in web design; but at least it won't all be crammed into a proprietary runtime with a ghastly security record...

Re:Finally, but

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations, you win the dumbest post of the day award.

Re:Finally, but

[dingen]

Since there is competition however in the browser market, much will be done to improve rendering speed of complex and heavy HTML5 applications. This is in sharp contrast with Adobe, who as sole provider of the Flash plugin has no incentive at all to improve things.

Re:Finally, but

[VGPowerlord]

ActionScript is practically JavaScript? Good god, that's like saying VB is practically C.

If VB and C were based on the same standard, you might have a point.

Recent versions of JavaScript and ActionScript are both (partial or complete) implementations of ECMAScript version 3.

Re:Finally, but

[Defenestrar]

Especially as:

...this initial version of Wallaby offers no support for conversion of ActionScript, Movies and Sound.

Personally, the main utility that I could use would be a (free) method of converting .swf into just about any other video format so I can watch my online lecture courses outside of the browser (and at 1.25 fractional speed). I understand the technical benefits for using a shockwave video (e.g. file size), but there's something to be said for avoiding closed sources in an academic setting. Sorry, sideline rant there.

Re:Finally, but

[VGPowerlord]

Since there is competition however in the browser market, much will be done to improve rendering speed of complex and heavy HTML5 applications. This is in sharp contrast with Adobe, who as sole provider of the Flash plugin has no incentive at all to improve things.

Sure they do. If Adobe doesn't improve Flash, then there's no reason for Flash designers to buy new versions.

Considering that Flash Professional CS5 has a list price of $699 per copy on its own.

Re:Finally, but

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

You still need the Adobe plugin(unless Gnash just happens to support your specific .swf files); but VLC has support for treating the contents of the screen as an input stream, which should allow you to do an ugly-but-functional transcode... There is another cute utility that emulates a VNC client; but, instead of doing the usual VNC client thing, writes out an flv movie of the on-screen action (vnc2flv, I think is the name). If you install a VNC server on the machine being used to show the swf, you could also get a video file out of it that way... Also ugly; but might be good enough.

Re:Finally, but

[Richard_at_work]

Most video is streamed via RTMP, which HTML5 cannot handle, so there is no point in converting the player since the video is not part of the original file.

Re:Finally, but

[TheRaven64]

You're confusing two different issues. Adobe has an incentive to add new features to the Flash authoring tools, much less incentive to improve the plugin: it doesn't directly generate revenue and it's got no competition.

If HTML5 support matures a bit more, Flash Professional will probably evolve into an HTML 5 rich content authoring platform. This is great from Adobe's perspective - they get to keep the profitable bit (the authoring tool) and let other companies absorb develop their their loss leader.

Flash Player is currently a strange beast. It has some amazing technology (the JIT compiler is pretty impressive), and some really hideous legacy stuff (like doing colour space transforms and compositing entirely on the CPU, because that made sense 15 years ago) that cripples performance. There's no incentive for Adobe to rewrite the legacy parts that are 'good enough', but if Mozilla's canvas implementation is significantly slower than the one in IE or WebKit then they lose marketing points so they have a strong incentive to improve it.

Re:Finally, but

[Old97]

Unless you explain why you think his post is dumb/dumber or dumbest, you are just trolling. What exactly do you think is so dumb about what he wrote? Did he get a fact about how the technology works wrong or do you disagree with his analysis of how businesses and the marketplace really work? Or maybe his conclusion conflicts with what you'd like to believe?

Re:Finally, but

[Midnight Thunder]

I suppose only time will tell. At least with HTML5 a lot more work has been done with optimizing the engines, but we still aren't immune to the endless "for" loops that take up all the CPU - maybe that would take some code that would detect a CPU crushing "for" loop and de-prioritise the code? Either way I would be curious to see how much they decide to optimise the generated code. I don't want to see something akin to the mess generated by programs such as "MS FrontPage".

Re:Finally, but

[DrXym]

I wonder how efficient this is going to be. We don't want HTML5 to get a bunch of autogenerated bogged down code and become the next flash (performance wise, anyway).

The answer to that is "probably less efficient than just running flash". Now you potentially have 4 or 5 JS scripts on timers all in contention on the same thread of your browser, all screaming to be updated every 1/30th of a second.

Re:Finally, but

[Pieroxy]

ActionScript is practically JavaScript? Good god, that's like saying VB is practically C.

No it's not. They are practically identical.

Re:Finally, but

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

A lot of legacy or 'copy-protected'(RTMPE) stuff is; but a fair amount these days is done with just a .swf container providing a few playback control widgets and pulling an .flv or .mp4 video from a URL. Most RTMP servers cost money, while bulk HTTP serving commands virtually no premium over the cost of hardware, power, and bandwidth. No assurances; but often worth a quick look at the page source or a packet sniff...

Re:Finally, but

[Bucky24]

"...this initial version of Wallaby offers no support for conversion of ActionScript, Movies and Sound."

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but don't those three things make up the majority of flash apps on the web today?

Re:Finally, but

[freezin fat guy]

If HTML5 support matures a bit more, Flash Professional will probably evolve into an HTML 5 rich content authoring platform. This is great from Adobe's perspective - they get to keep the profitable bit (the authoring tool) and let other companies absorb develop their their loss leader.

And Adobe has certainly done well with HTML 4 authoring tools. This should be a natural step for them.

Re:Finally, but

[elrous0]

No, I would say it's much more likely to produce code that looks and works differently in every browser (and browser version). It's going to be just like HTML--with developers having to test the code in every different browser and working extra hours to create code that at least looks passable in each browser type and version. Hello headaches.

Re:Finally, but

[Salvo]

Adobe had gotten around this by omitting support for ActionScript.
Wallaby won't be able to convert interactive Flash, only non-interactive animations.
The purpose of this is to convert annoying, resource-intensive proprietary Flash Ads with annoying, resource-intensive obfuscated HTML5.

Adobe's bread-and-butter is Flash Ads, with less and less devices supporting Flash, they need a way to lock in their customer base of Ad "developers".

Re:Finally, but

[fean]

You're suggesting that Adobe hasn't 'improved things', when in fact, they've been releasing new versions faster than ever before. 10.2 was just recently released, with support for 'StageVideo', allowing HD movies to be rendered via the graphics pipeline, giving native performance because it uses your hardware.

They improved their cursor support, hooking into the OS to provide 'native' cursors, rather than just drawing them in Flash.

IE rendering speed was increased by 33% due to new hooks into their 'native' graphics pipeline, they improved their OSX integration, however they didn't release performance numbers.

Their sub-pixel rendering has been updated, removing optimizations for CRTs, giving crisper, cleaner lines on IPS displays.

10.3 beta was just announced, which will provide echo cancellation for audio input, improved analytics for video-based sites, integration into browser privacy settings (no more super-cookie), and a 'local' settings panel for all Plugin settings.

Also on their labs site is their 'incubator', which provides a full and true 3D rendering API, though the release date for this has not been announced.

So, while you can speculate on what their incentives might be, you certainly cannot fault Adobe for not updating and improving their plugin.

Re:Finally, but

[fean]

They're moving more compositing over to the GPU, with the addition of StageVideo and soon, MoleHill 3D API.

They had every reason and incentive to improve the compositing, etc, however some unnamed OperatingSystemXs would not let them have access to the GPU pipeline. Now that they have, Adobe has made a very strong movement towards using it as much as possible. And towards being as open about the new and upcoming tech as a corporation is likely to be.

Re:Finally, but

[dingen]

Just because they've started to release updates lately now that actual competition is starting to emerge, doesn't mean I can't fault them for creating the current mess to begin with. I don't know if you have ever used the Flash plugin on Linux or Mac OS X, but the performance is terrible compared to Windows, not to mention the stability and security problems.

Re:Finally, but

[dingen]

Headaches for developers just create better professionals. Headaches for users are inexcusable.

Re:Finally, but

[elrous0]

No, headaches for developers just produce delays, errors, and frustration.

Re:Finally, but

[TheRaven64]

They had every reason and incentive to improve the compositing, etc, however some unnamed OperatingSystemXs would not let them have access to the GPU pipeline

Bullshit. The APIs that they demanded are only needed if you want to do the video decoding on the GPU, then get the image out, do the colour space conversion and compositing in software, and then shove it back. OS X has had support for rendering video output to OpenGL textures or to CoreAnimation layers (both of which do hardware accelerated compositing, and can do colour space transforms on the GPU using CoreImage filters or GLSL / OpenCL shaders) for several years. APIs for achieving the effect that Adobe wanted have existed since 10.4 - it's just they haven't supported doing it in such a braindead way.

One of my friends has recently been helping Adobe with the Android port of Flash player, and it seems that their code is every bit as bad as I imagined it to be.

Re:Finally, but

[mldi]

Well, TFA states that it isn't intended to produce "final form HTML ready for deployment to web pages". It looks like it's more of a tool to convert animation sequences and things like that.

Say what you will about Adobe, but I've always been impressed by their efforts to make their products as cross-platform ready as humanly possible, and much more so than almost any other company out there in a similar type of market.

Good news for linux?

[Jack Malmostoso]

Of course I did not RTFA, however is there any way this technology could be used to convert flash-heavy websites to HTML5, thus benefiting those platforms which don't have a flash plugin available? Linux/PPC comes to mind, but I am sure there are others. And no, Gnash and company do not even come close.

Re:Good news for linux?

[RobbieThe1st]

You mean like say... Smokescreen? http://smokescreen.us/
Looks like exactly what you want, though it seems a bit slow on my cellphone.

Re:Good news for linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really, at least currently. There is no actionscript support, so this is really only for animation exclusive flash files. Obviously you could modify the code it generates and use that as a basis to convert your flash application, but it would basically mean maintaining your code base in two, admittedly similar, languages. This is really aimed at the animation only crowd who have little to no interactivity (ie, advertisers) and keeping them happy on the flash platform.

Re:Good news for linux?

[creepynut]

Great suggestion! Have you ever tried it? A colleague and I were looking at Smokescreen and some other similar projects when we wanted to an old page with some Flash for a client working on the iPad.

Smokescreen looks fantastic in their demos, but they don't make it available for download anywhere and the last update to their site was nearly a year ago. This was a post "weeks" before they get the source code out. Hopefully eventually it is out eventually because it seems like a great project.

By grabbing the JS source we did try to demo it with a few pages and it croaked. It might be that our SWF files were poorly coded, we didn't create them. I suspect this might be a case similar to IE rendering bad code correctly while other browsers croak.

The other major problem is that this kind of solution needs to be implemented by the web author. I can't "install" this on my iPad and hope all Flash content magically works.

Another script we tried was called Gordon (src: https://github.com/tobeytailor/gordon/wiki/). Unfortunately this only works with Flash v1/v2 SWF files.

Both Gordon and Smokescreen render SWF files in the browser which is great if this is all you have. I certainly imagine this Adobe one that compiles some HTML5 code from the Flash source file works better.

Re:Good news for linux?

[kiwix]

That could be a very good news, given that Linux/AMD64, a relatively popular platform still has no official support for the flash plugin (yes, I know, there is a beta available, but remeber how it was temporarly killed a few months ago, leaving Linux/AMD64 users with either a gaping security hole — bigger than usual, anyway — or without flash?)

Re:Good news for linux?

[RobbieThe1st]

I was messing about with the js last night on my phone, hoping to try it on some other flash files and I found the same issues as you - I assumed it was just because of my low-spec'd ARM processor(950mhz) being too slow to handle it correctly.

As far as "installing" it, that'd be a simple matter of a Greasemonkey-like application, wouldn't it? Just have it re-write the object/embed tags with Smokescreen code and load the js file

Admittedly, that wouldn't work on the iDevices, due to not being able to add extensions to the browser... I suppose you could just setup a "flash to html5 proxy" site that does it server-side.

Is a subject really necessary?

[LizardKing]

So is this the best of both worlds for all of us? Adobe can still sell Flash authoring software, while the need for their buggy plugin fades away. End users benefit from portability and (given Adobe's track record with the plugin) security perspective. There must be a catch.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[gmueckl]

There is a simple catch: performance. Some parts of Flash are really highly optimized (like the vector rendering engine - yup, that was once the primary purpose of the whole beast...). I highly doubt that any potential HTML5 counterpart to these parts reaches even remotely the same performance. End result: choppy animation, poor battery life, you name it.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[dingen]

Why wouldn't browsers be capable of the same level of performance in rendering vector graphics as Flash? Especially since hardware acceleration is already implemented by most browsers on most platforms and Javascript engines are already highly optimized, creating smoother canvas / SVG animations could well be the next big thing browser developers will aim for.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[natehoy]

There is. This only supports animation, not ActionScript. Interactive applications like games, charts, menus, etc don't get to come along for the ride.

True, you get to dump the buggy Flash plugin, and that's a good thing. On the other hand, you lose all the things that make Flash more than just a video player.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[_0xd0ad]

IIRC Smokescreen supports ActionScript.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[nschubach]

"aim for" - Sure. But today, the race is on to keep people developing in Flash and porting it to HTML5 for Adobe. They've put their foot in the door. How many browsers are working on fast SVG? I hear more about JavaScript performance that I have about SVG in any form. SVG is still very much in an infant stage on the browsers. Yes, there is some support, but it's limited.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[dingen]

But as more content will be provided in SVG, the support for it in browsers will also improve. It's a chicken/egg situation, I know, but I see absolutely no reason why Adobe would be the sole provider of fast rendering vector graphics on the web.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[nschubach]

Not the sole provider really, but they are the only ones that have an editor that I'm aware of that allows for animated SVG. They are merely making sure that Adobe is the name you go to for the time being to develop said content. Drawing SVG by hand (in code) is not fun. ;)

If they don't improve that software, they are no better off than Microsoft was with IE. It's defacto right now, but if they don't stay up with the latest standards they'll be replaced.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[gseidman]

If the output is naive (i.e. uses the canvas tag to draw individual pixels), you'll have the problems you're worried about. If it makes good use of sprites, SVG, and even WebGL it has a much better chance of performing well. And even if the first version of the HTML5 output is naive, one can hope that Adobe will be responsive to the complaints of their paying customers (i.e. those who actually buy this authoring tool) and improve upon it.

Re:Is a subject really necessary?

[DaVince21]

Wait, really? Vector animation has actually been one of the choppier performing things on my computer, and it seemingly got worse with each Flash release... I remember when Flash 5 and 6 vector animations ran just fine on my PC. Try that now. I can't make it not choppy if things get only a little too complex.

Meh

[Haedrian]

I just hate it when companies end up wasting time and effort to prove Jobs right.

Adobe should have just stood their ground, and used THEIR bulk to break Apple, not the other way around.

Re:Meh

[Galestar]

You must be new here. Adobe has come out publicly and said that HTML5 doesn't scare them because they know their plugin does not have much of a future. They want to sell authoring software, that is their entire business model. As far as Apple is concerned I don't think they really care what SJ has to say one way or another.

Re:Meh

[Haedrian]

I must have missed that article.

So HTML 5 is as powerful as Flash? I always imagined Silverlight dying with HTML 5 - but I always thought Flash had something extra above HTML 5. Talking about actionscript mostly and not about the animation.

Re:Meh

[arielCo]

Adobe should have just stood their ground, and used THEIR bulk to break Apple, not the other way around.

Not much of a chance:

ADBE :
Revenue: US$3.8 billion
Net income: US$775 million

AAPL :
Revenue $26.7 billion
Net income: US$6 billion

Re:Meh

[Galestar]

Actionscript is neat and all, but javascript is a decent replacement for it. Javascript just has a bad name because so many amateurs use it poorly, and it is a slightly different paradigm (functional, prototype-based) than traditional c++/java/VB that professionals are used to. Its proper use has come a long way in the past few years though.

I've been looking, and while I've seen a few bloggers back up my story, I haven't been able to find an article I read last year, which quoted them as saying such.

Just think about their *profitable* product lines though - all authoring tools (think Photoshop, Acrobat, Dreamweaver and their ilk)

Re:Meh

[Ephemeriis]

Adobe should have just stood their ground, and used THEIR bulk to break Apple, not the other way around.

Adobe isn't worried about their plugin. They want to sell authoring tools. They can sell tools that build HTML5 stuff just as easily as tools that build Flash stuff.

Re:Meh

[dingen]

There's nothing Actionscript can do which Javascript can't.

Re:Meh

[Galestar]

Aha here it is Interview with Kevin Lynch, CTO of Adobe

Q: How is Adobe going to react to HTML5?
A: I wouldn’t say reacting to HTML5. We see whatever people are using to express themselves. We’re going to make great tooling for HTML5. We’re going to make the best tools in the world for HTML 5.

It’s not about HTML 5 vs Flash. They’re mutually beneficial. The more important question is the freedom of choice on the web.

Re:Meh

[gstoddart]

and it is a slightly different paradigm (functional, prototype-based) than traditional c++/java/VB that professionals are used to

Except that's not really obvious when you're reading about the language -- it's got more traditional procedural syntax and structures. One doesn't tend to think of a language with a "while" loop as being functional.

Maybe one of the reasons "amateurs" don't use it the way you think they should is that the people who built the language have done a piss-poor job of conveying to people how it's actually "supposed" to be used. Or, they've been gradually slapping more into the language than the original thing we think of as "javascript".

I'll definitely concede you can do more in javascript than most people realize ... I saw some javascript code a couple years in which someone implemented closures, and I had to do some looking to understand what it was doing.

It's just never really been obvious that javascript was a functional language since it's basically borrowed most of C's syntax. So, as languages go, it's a bit of a hodge-podge.

Re:Meh

[ludwigf]

It isn't about actionscript anyway. From TFA:

ActionScript 1,2 -- Status: Unsupported
ActionScript 3 -- Status: Unsupported

Seems pretty useless to me..

Re:Meh

[sorak]

Nah. They're just trying to make it so that developers do not have an either/or decision; they develop in flash and then crank out an auto-generated HTML5 version*. It's embrace and extend all over again.

* Of course, I am curious if, like Embrace and Extend, this will involve being 90% compatible, but always having a slight monkey-wrench so that people who don't go with the 800LB gorilla will always assume that the little guy is to blame when their standards-compliant implementation does not look as good as the proprietary counterpart...
</tinfoilhat>

Re:Meh

[Pieroxy]

It's just that the barrier of entry is extremely low, so everyone can DIY its own script in notepad, while not understanding a single line of what they wrote. That's why we end up with so many poorly written javascript.

Re:Meh

[nschubach]

You could do jQuery in Actionscript, but I feel jQuery was mainly a workaround to working with the DOM. (jQuery has some nice additions for dealing with Arrays and Collections as well) AS never needed that since it always dealt with SVG and raw data, but the side features that come with jQuery I find missing when working with AS.

Re:Meh

[nschubach]

I love it's "hodge-podge" though... because that's what makes it so great to work with. It just feels like there are no limits when coding. I've always loved the C-Syntax languages, but I always felt confined working with them until I learned how to use Javascript.

Re:Meh

[cmburns69]

They're both turing complete languages. From a technical perspective, there's nothing Javascript can do that can't also be done in Basic.

Of course, Actionscript has some nice features that JS doesn't have-- like optional strong typing and automatic closure context. It's true they're both (mostly) syntactic sugar, but they're really nice to have when you need them and they don't get in the way the rest of the time.

Re:Meh

[BeanThere]

?? They're not doing it to 'prove Jobs right', they're just doing what they think makes financial sense. What do they gain from 'standing their ground' (what does that mean - to financially keep supporting a technology of yesterday?), if it means they miss the boat on the market for authoring tools for HTML5, which IS going to be the biggest Web platform of the next decade? This isn't WWE or something, it's just business. Adobe can't stop Flash from dying, and it has little to do with Jobs, since Jobs didn't create HTML5, in fact the main development spearheading of that effort comes from Google and Chrome etc., with browsers like Firefox and even IE9 implementing support too.

Re:Meh

[nschubach]

Drawing a simple line from (x,y)-(x1,y1) can be rather tedious in JavaScript. You either need to have an image of a diagonal line to manipulate or use Canvas which is only just being implemented now.

While it's possible to do it now, it's been dead simple to do in Flash for over a decade.

Re:Meh

[fean]

HTML5 doesn't scare them because it has feature parity with Flash 4.

Their plugin will keep innovating and optimizing, and HTML will pick up the pieces that iOS users miss the most. Their plugin has a very LONG future ahead of it. In the time it's taken between HTML4 (1997) and HTML5(2014), Flash will have released 11 or 12 versions. (that's ALL of them)

Re:Meh

[fean]

It can't be type-safe, and it can't support real classes. You can't have two javascript 'classes' named the same thing without a collision. You can't have private variables, you can't have getter/setter functions.

ECMA chose to abandon ECMA4 because the majority of javascript developers were too... remedial... to understand such advanced concepts as 'classes'. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of VERY talented developers doing amazing things in Javascript, but their life would be made much easier if they had moved to ECMA4.

Hallelujah

[grilled-cheese]

And there was much rejoicing from the internet.

In Other News...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Apple now demanding 30% of all sales and ad revenue derived from Flash->HTML5 applications.

Huzzah!

I'm amazed

[Kosi]

This is like MS offering a converter for Windows applications to run on Linux. I'm fine with that, although I don't get what sense Adobe sees in that help to kill off one of their cash cows.

Re:I'm amazed

[DigiShaman]

No, wrong, I refuse to believe it. This is some sort of sick and twisted trolling joke. It has to be. It simply MUST be. ***head asplodes in disbelief***

Re:I'm amazed

[gutnor]

Adobe is making tons of money on the Editor to make the flash applications. Flash is to Adobe what iTune is to Apple: a way to get people on its platform.

Microsoft gets the bulk of its money from Windows, so it has no interest of giving people reason not to use it.

Re:I'm amazed

[tixxit]

What, exactly, about Flash do you think Adobe makes money on? It isn't the free Adobe flash player, but rather the tools to create content for the flash player. Adobe knows that HTML5 will be a mean competitor, so why wait while it gains momentum? If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. They'll still get lots of sales for their HTML5 compliant authoring tool that lets artists make cool, inaccessible, fancy things, rather than forcing companies to hire a JavaScript Guru to do the same thing.

Re:I'm amazed

[trollertron3000]

I would bet that they would gladly give up their flash player because they don't really sell it. If you think about it the world is doing Adobe a favor by providing a file format and viewers for the content created by it's tool sets, that it actually sells. They sell their creative tools, the flash player was always needed to provide a way to view these creations. Now that HTML5 can accomplish much of this they see a way out of the constant development on their player.

Steve Jobs probably thought he was punching them in the balls, but in reality he just handed them more cash. The adobe creative suite is on almost every designer machine in the western world. "Flash", meaning SWFs might be going away, but the creative tool sets are here to stay for a long while. Then throw in their new "Flash Builder", aka Flex, and you have a powerful set of tools. That's what they sell.

Re:I'm amazed

[zoward]

This is like MS offering a converter for Windows applications to run on Linux. I'm fine with that, although I don't get what sense Adobe sees in that help to kill off one of their cash cows.

It won't kill of their cash cow. The point is that you would theoretically be able to code your site in Flash, then convert it to HTML5 to make an "iphone version" available. This would presumably help keep sites already heavily invested in Flash from outright jumping ship to HTML5.

Re:I'm amazed

[RingDev]

No, this is like MS offering a converter that would allow you to look at pictures of Windows applications on Linux.

No action script, no functionality. This is just converting Flash's vector graphics to HTML 5's SVG.

And interestingly enough, I'm pretty sure that the Microsoft alternative (Silverlight & Expression Studio 4) already offers the functionality to convert XAML to SVG.

-Rick

Re:I'm amazed

[cjb658]

You'd have a point if Adobe charged for Flash player.

Re:I'm amazed

[StuartHankins]

It's a mutually beneficial decision... Apple's decision to disallow Flash becomes a moot point, and Adobe gets an excuse to create another tool to sell. The end-users don't care what it's called so long as it works on all their devices.

Re:I'm amazed

[Kosi]

It would make Flashplayer obsolete. That would lead to more and more site owners making their sites in HTML5 directly instead of doing it in Flash and then converting it. Which would be a fine thing for me.

Re:I'm amazed

[Kosi]

But then the people could decide between many different toolsets, they weren't bound to Adobe's as they are with Flash.

Re:I'm amazed

[Kosi]

If you want to make a Flash site, you need to buy stuff from Adobe, or at least stuff where Adobe gets license fees. If you want to make a HTML5 site, you can do that without Adobe earning a cent.

Re:I'm amazed

[Kosi]

People use that Adobe stuff to make their sites, because it is so widely spread. Now, if there is an alternative like HTML5, where you can do about the same without having to buy Adobe's expensive stuff, the sales of their Flash creation tools will decrease greatly.

Re:I'm amazed

[Skidborg]

So long as people are still using Flash to build their games and web applications, it doesn't really matter what they convert it into for the web. Flash is an excellent work environment for building things, and so far it is far from equalled in HTML 5 authoring tools. If Adobe can make Flash output to HTML 5 well then they have just conquered a new market and survived the fall of their old one.

Re:I'm amazed

[trollertron3000]

Yeah and that is the down side to it all. They have to make their tools more attractive to developers, which they are working on. But it's a long row to hoe. They have a bad reputation and their tool set leaves a lot to be desired when compared to other "Rich Internet" tools.

Re:I'm amazed

[tixxit]

Yes, exactly, which is why Adobe wants to move into the HTML5 territory. Remember, HTML5 is only a threat to Flash as a platform, not Flash as a development tool. Adobe has relied on Flash's ubiquity to sell their development platform for a while now. However, it is only a matter of time before there are more HTML5 compliant browsers out there than there are browsers with the Flash plugin. Since HTML5 offers a comparable feature set to Adobe Flash, the Platform, the only thing Adobe really has over HTML5 is Flash, the Development Tool. So, why try and fight a losing battle with HTML5, when their profit comes from their development tool anyways. The longer they wait to switch to HTML5, the higher the chance that a competitor will step in and steal their (paying) customers away with promises of a graphical development tool that'll work on all browsers and smartphones - no plugin required.

Re:I'm amazed

[Salvo]

This is more like MS offering a win16 converter for Linux that only displays the Splash Screen.

Adobe's cash cow isn't Flash-based Video or Interactive Flash Games/Apps. It is non-interactive Flash Ads.
This converter only converts Flash Animations to HTML5, ActionScript (which is needed for Flash Games and Apps) isn't supported. Flash Video Players also rely on ActionScript.

Re:I'm amazed

[Kosi]

Adobe's cash cow isn't Flash-based Video or Interactive Flash Games/Apps. It is non-interactive Flash Ads.

Ah, OK. Thanks to a certain Vladimir Palant (maker of Adblock Plus), I wasn't very much aware of that :)

This converter only converts Flash Animations to HTML5, ActionScript (which is needed for Flash Games and Apps) isn't supported. Flash Video Players also rely on ActionScript.

LOL, their Player isn't able to play a .flv file, which IIRC just contains H.264 video and MP3 audio, just by itself, there must be some scripting done? Ridiculously lame!

Re:I'm amazed

[fean]

You've always been able to export flash to svg, png, even movies... Problem is that no browsers support the actual SVG spec.

Re:I'm amazed

[cyclomedia]

Actually this is more like MS Visual Studio being able to cross compile to other platforms than x86 Windows. Which it can already do.

Re:I'm amazed

[DaVince21]

Kill off? Isn't Adobe trying to create a new future for its cash cow instead by also making it usable for that new cool thing everybody's talking about? If they stuck to just Flash, THEN they would be killing off one of their cash cows as the future of Flash is a bit more unsure than the future of HTML5.

Where's the catch?

[skywatcher2501]

Very nice, but where's the catch with this?

Re:Where's the catch?

[dingen]

The catch is you'll still have to use Flash to create the animations to begin with.

Re:Where's the catch?

[amicusNYCL]

It doesn't support anything actually useful. There's a list of supported/unsupported features in the article. You can scroll down that list and easily find which features the company I work for uses to produce our Flash content. Those features are easy to find because they're all marked "unsupported".

Marginally useful for advertising and other non-interactive vector graphics, useless for anything with interactivity, video, or sound.

Re:Where's the catch?

[Mr Bubble]

There's nothing wrong with using Flash - except that it sucks and is expensive. Other competitors will step up and supply HTML authoring tools for the Web that don't suck as much and Adobe will have motivation to make their products better. Looks like Apple's iAd Producer is a step in that direction.

http://developer.apple.com/iad/iadproducer/

iAd Producer makes it easy for you to design and assemble high-impact, interactive content for iAd. iAd Producer automatically manages the HTML5, CSS3 and JavaScript behind your iAd to make creating beautiful, motion-rich iAd content as easy as point and click.

For advanced developers, iAd Producer offers sophisticated JavaScript editing and debugging, along with a powerful extension mechanism that enables them to create and re-use their own page templates and components.

Re:Where's the catch?

[Mr Bubble]

The question I ask myself is why isn't Adobe making a similar product already? Every couple of years I have to shell out another 1200 bucks or so to upgrade the Adobe suite and it never seems to get much better.

Makes me realize how much we need Flash

[Anonymous Coward]

I downloaded and tested the Wallaby Technology demo on a few fla files I have.

The stop actions in the timeline don't work. Anything utilizing 3d doesn't work. The text was converted into lines (svgs). Buttons inside of buttons don't work. Videos don't play. It's Flash without all the benefits of Flash. Whats the point?

All websites display perfectly on my HP slate. Who needs backwards compatibility for the iPad anyways?

Re:Makes me realize how much we need Flash

[Overzeetop]

Who needs backwards compatibility for the iPad anyways?

Because that's where all the consumers are. Sure, there are lots of users out there, but the metrosexuals with paychecks and spending money are all on their iPads, and they're still buying all sorts of shit. In the portable market, I would expect that two platforms are making the lion's share of purchases - Kindle and iPad. Throw in iPhone to that group if you want to include the smaller format market. Their devices are for consuming, and the only reason people spend time and money on websites to get people (the viewers) to spend money. Flash is just eyecandy to get you to spend more. Why would you throw away the bulk of the emerging market devices?

Android tablets? Well, based on the success off the Xoom, it will be in the recycle pile before they get flash running properly on it.

HTML5 outperforming Flash?

[Dr Egg]

It will be interesting to see if the HTML5 code this generates actually runs faster than Flash on Linux and Mac (or anywhere else which has an competent HTML5 browser and incompetent Flash plug ins).

Re:HTML5 outperforming Flash?

[StuartHankins]

Flash on Mac is a dog... the temps go way up causing the fans spin up noisily, and the browser actually stutters. You can almost feel it straining. Nothing else I run causes this behavior; it's immediate as soon as you wander over to a page using Flash (AutoCAD under DOSBox, XP under Parallels, OpenOffice / LibreOffice, Gimp, Thunderbird, iPhoto / iLife '09, iTunes, X11 etc -- as well as all kinds of other web content and other sites all work fine without the high temps or fans kicking in).

Re:HTML5 outperforming Flash?

[dishpig]

It will be interesting to see if the HTML5 code this generates actually runs faster than Flash on Linux and Mac (or anywhere else which has an competent HTML5 browser and incompetent Flash plug ins).

No, it will be dog slow on ALL platforms.

Us: Hey Adobe, this converted HTML5 stuff is awful!
Adobe: We know! Terrible isn't it? It sure ran nice in Flash though - maybe you should stick with that.

Re:HTML5 outperforming Flash?

[Salvo]

Wallaby creating extremely inefficient HTML5 out of inefficient Flash is a feature, not a bug.

Anyone with a free text-editor, cheap image editor and inexpensive HTML5 book can create efficient HTML5 ads. Adobe don't want Ad "developers" doing that, they want Ad "developers" to spend $1200 bi-annualy on their authoring tools.
They also want to punish users who don't have Flash on their devices with inefficient Ads.

Banner-ware

[roger_pasky]

No ActionScript, no audio, no video... It's a good starting point, but useless out of banner scope. Then you have the HTML code openess vs. FLA decompiling.

Re:Writing on the wall.

[hedwards]

That wasn't why we criticized Apple for refusing to support Flash, we criticized it because it was another instance of Apple telling their customers what they can do with their property. I think most of us support anything that makes Flash less viable.

And unfortunately, Adobe and Macromedia's efforts to make Flash too bloated to run on any existing system seems to have failed...

From the Article..

[papasui]

The focus for this initial version of Wallaby is to do the best job possible of converting typical banner ads to HTML5 and supported Webkit browsers include Chrome and Safari on OSX, Windows, and iOS.

I was happier before they released this, last thing I care about is more blinky crap ads on websites.

Re:From the Article..

[enzo_romeo]

Totally agree with you on this. Seems like 90% of the Flash I encounter on the web is advertising so I haven't missed it in my iPhone or iPad. Crap. This is sad news. Here is hoping Apple will enable the "Reader" function on the iOS Safari.

Inverse Embrace and extend

[goombah99]

Adobe is setting up HTML5 to be "flash-lite". Like the embrace and extend concept, they can offer more features leading people genetly away from HTML5. For example, you want to build a website but are not sure what the future holds. You could build it in HTML5 and then hope you don't get stuck with some content protection or interaction issues that demand HTML5. (e.g. maybe you think your social networking ite might someday offer simultaneous feature movie viewing that will demand FLASH DRM or something) Or you could build it in Flash and translate it to HTML5. and that will work till you really need flash, if ever. Going the other route: build it in HTML5 and then get stuck and have to rebuild it in Flash might look unappealing.

Re:Inverse Embrace and extend

[mcelrath]

OTOH, Adobe makes their money from selling Flash authoring tools. I'm sure they couldn't give a crap less what the target format for their tools is, if people still buy their authoring tools. Being able to dump the expense of maintaining and distributing the Flash player, but still selling authoring tools that output HTML5 and let Flash slowly die? Sounds like a damn good business decision.

Re:Inverse Embrace and extend

[nschubach]

Adobe makes money on the editor, not the player. If they can get people to develop pages in Flash and "sidegrade" to HTML5 that's fine by them as long as they are the first and forefront of rich HTML content development suites.

Not that silly...

[itsdapead]

ActionScript is practically JavaScript? Good god, that's like saying VB is practically C.

If I've got my version numbers right....

ActionScript 1 was an implementation of ECMAScript - i.e. the language was virtually identical to Javascript.

ActionScript 2 diverged from Javascript in that it included some elements that were being discussed for the next version of ECMAScript but never materialised (e.g. class-based OOP).

ActionScript 3 diverged a bit more (e.g. package-management stuff).

...AFAIK most of this was just "syntactic sugar" so, e.g. you can declare a class Java-style rather than creating a function and appending methods to its prototype JS-style. So cross-compiling ActionScript to Javascript should be mainly a job of translating shortcuts added in AS2&3 back into "longhand"

Of course, that's just the language - the Flash API is nothing like HTML DOM, but SVG seems a fairly good substitute for Flash's vector graphics. Pity that, unlike Apple, Android disabled SVG in their web browser (people forget that when they're ragging on iOS for not having Flash...) :-(

Re:Not that silly...

[fean]

The real issue is that neither SVG nor Canvas allow for truly interactive User Interface. Flash's graphics are inherently OOP, allowing for very simple and easy mouse interactivity. With Canvas/SVG, you have to maintain a separate map of where everything is, then when a click comes in, you have to manually do the click detection.

Obviously, this is entirely possible to replicate, but as ECMA4 (the intended 'new' standard that AS3 implemented) was thrown away for being too complicated for Web Developers, it seems absurd to me that they didn't bother building in just a LITTLE bit of interactivity help...

Re:Not that silly...

[itsdapead]

With Canvas/SVG, you have to maintain a separate map of where everything is

Nope - SVG is fully scriptable, you can manipulate indivicual graphic elements directly, attach mouse event handlers etc. via DOM. As with all "HTML5" technology there are some browser quirks to faff around with, though.

Thats why Canvas isnt a replacement for SVG (or Flash).

Interesting.

[JustAnotherIdiot]

I expected someone to come out with this, but I didn't expect it to come from Adobe. I was under the impression they were fighting HTML5 to keep flash dominant tooth and nail. Granted, I never really looked very far into their position on that.

Re:Interesting.

[Skidborg]

Adobe makes their money on the flash authoring tools, not the player. The more things that their tools can be used for the better.

Link????

[Iceman4234]

Any one know the link for this software???

isn't it odd

[milkmage]

that they release something like this... if apple thought their users were missing out, they'd support flash.
but adobe goes and does this because... why?

Re:isn't it odd

[Salvo]

To fortify their market of ad authoring tools.

Adobe don't care if Ads are in Flash, HTML5 or *shudder* Silverlight. As long as Ad Authors use Adobe's tools to make them.

Re:Link

[Iceman4234]

I found the link
http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/wallaby.html
  if anyone is interested

looks like a save my template machine

[opencity]

Translates buttons, gradients, frame sets and some animation - though it generates multiple .svg's for animation.
This is for people who bought those (heinous) Flash templates for their restaurant/photo gallery/etc and are now horrified that the site doesn't play on iPad.
As a long time Flash guy I enjoy telling most new clients they should go with javascript/css etc ... No more discussing pretty (annoying) Flash splash openings. Nice dynamic AJAXee navigation. But for games it's actionscript all the way. Until there's real .svg support.

This could be a big game changer

[erroneus]

In order to faithfully display the "new media format" a browser vendor will have to create a very compatible rendering engine.

WebKit is targetted, according to the article, but FireFox's Gecko will not be far behind. The obvious "last to support the standard" will be Microsoft and so I wonder how they will respond? Will there be an "HTML5 to Silverlight" converter? Will they pull in the WebKit rendering engine and when MSIE detects this form on HTML5 switch rendering engines? Whatever the case, failure to be compatible may get some unwanted attention.

I have few nice things to say about Apple, but I have to say that if Apple didn't take a stand against Flash, then progress away from it would be a lot slower. (I wonder what would happen if Apple decided to stop supporting IPv4?)

Like many here, though, I have to wonder how effective this conversion will be? Flash seems like a really complex thing. I guess I will have to see some results and decide for myself...

And then there are the web developers -- we want to be as compatible with everyone as we possibly can and to write it only once if possible. I have to wonder what the prevailing attitude and opinion will be?

Youtube's Hell

[Randy_Leatherbelly]

Have they done this to try and appease the mass Youtube crashes many Linux and some Mac owners are having ?

Re:Youtube's Hell

[Salvo]

YouTube's Video Player uses ActionScript. Wallaby doesn't support ActionScript.

The best way to stop YouTube from crashing is for Google to implement HTML5 as the default, rather than as an obscure and unstable option.
For users, Addons and Extensions like YouTube5 http://www.verticalforest.com/youtube5-extension/ attempt to force YouTube to display plugin-free pages.

The reason the Content Lords

[ThatsNotPudding]

don't like HTML5: there is no bake-in, draconian DRM.

Re:Writing on the wall.

[Mr Bubble]

...it was another instance of Apple telling their customers what they can do with their property

Not at all. It was Apple trying to design the most robust mobile platform they could with decent battery life and allowing the consumer the choice as to whether they wanted to make the product their property.

RTFA PLEASE!! NOT really a Flash to HTML converter

[MobyDisk]

However, this initial version of Wallaby offers no support for conversion of ActionScript, Movies and Sound.

This is not a Flash to HTML 5 converter. As someone else pointed out, it is for banner ads.

The focus for this initial version of Wallaby is to do the best job possible of converting typical banner ads to HTML5

And so they just gave up

[Snaller]

...and decided to commit suicide. Interesting.

Block

[markdavis]

Although I like the idea of being able to convert Flash to HTML5, on many machines I *intentionally* block Flash because I do not want parts of normal websites having: animation, sound, movement, sucking down tons of bandwidth, CPU usage, battery use, etc.

I hope the browser designers will PLEASE give users some type of control to prevent/lower/stop animations. And before anyone mentions it: no, existing Firefox script-controlling addons (like No-Script) simply do not work for most people. They require way too much manual intervention and often leave websites relying on Javascript interactions completely broken.