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Town Expands To Boost Cooling For NSA Data Center

Posted by samzenpus on from the you-have-been-asimilated dept.

1sockchuck writes "A substantial water supply is critical for most large data centers. A case in point: Officials in Bluffdale, Utah have agreed to annex land housing a new $1.2 billion data center for the National Security Agency. The move makes the NSA a higher priority customer for Bluffdale's water utility, which prevents its water supply from a potential cutoff in the event of a water shortage — which would be a problem, since water will be used extensively in the data center's cooling system. Many large data centers have been working to reduce their water use to make them more sustainable and reliable."

89 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. That's a great theory by geekoid · · Score: 1

    until the people don't get water. Then they will; just destroy the data center in some manner.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:That's a great theory by XanC · · Score: 1

      Is it unusable for people after it's been through a datacenter? Why does using it to transfer heat around reduce its utility for drinking?

    2. Re:That's a great theory by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 1

      The water is evaporated in the process of cooling the data center, apparently.

      --
      My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    3. Re:That's a great theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They are afraid the water might be able to be reassembled in such a way as to show the data that the computers were processing when it cooled them.

      For God's sake don't tell them I

    4. Re:That's a great theory by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Gee, it's too bad that nothing can be done with steam. /sarcasm

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    5. Re:That's a great theory by inkscapee · · Score: 1

      They are afraid the water might be able to be reassembled in such a way as to show the data that the computers were processing when it cooled them.

      For God's sake don't tell them I

      Ha :) Wish I had some mod points for smart and funny! I seem to recall Intel or someone discovering a radical new inexpensive way to cool datacenters. They opened the windows.

    6. Re:That's a great theory by geekoid · · Score: 1

      evaporation doesn't equal steam. However you're point is well taken. You would think they could recapture it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:That's a great theory by danlip · · Score: 2

      It's a shame they don't use a sealed system and just pass the water through. It would require much more water of course, but you could co-locate the data center with the water treatment plant and then just pass all the city's water through the data center to cool it and on to the consumers to drink, so no water would be wasted (although in this case I am not sure who would trust water that had been passed though an NSA controlled facility - if it was Google that would be OK because we know they do no evil :)

    8. Re:That's a great theory by idontgno · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, I'm guessing it's evaporative cooling towers or forced-air evaporators. That would work a treat in the summer time there. (I looked at a humidity trend chart for the town; summertime relative humidities are in the 20-25% range. It's the proverbial "dry heat" you hear about.)

      I guess if the town wants its water they'll have to set up vaporator fields downwind of the cooling plant and buy astromech and protocol droids to maintain and program them.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    9. Re:That's a great theory by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is it unusable for people after it's been through a datacenter? Why does using it to transfer heat around reduce its utility for drinking?

      Depends what part of the cooling loop it ends up being used in. Because you really don't want things like galvanic corrosion or organic goo damaging your cooling system, cooling water that spends an extended period of time in the cooling loop is likely to be pretty nasty. Additives, biocides, dissolved metals, etc. Tasty.

      Water that just flows past a heat exchanger into which the main cooling loop dumps its heat is probably just fine. Water used for evaporative cooling should end up being nice and distilled(assuming that there isn't too much unpleasantness in the local air); but the percentage you can re-capture in Utah's climate may or may not be all that exciting...

    10. Re:That's a great theory by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "They opened the windows."
      it completely depends on the equipment being used.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    11. Re:That's a great theory by rhook · · Score: 1

      Too bad they cannot capture it with a condenser and recycle it through the system, running it through radiators....

    12. Re:That's a great theory by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 2

      They opened the windows.

      I'm sure Steve Ballmer would throw a chair at you for suggesting they open Windows.

    13. Re:That's a great theory by timeOday · · Score: 1

      The water is evaporated in the process of cooling the data center, apparently.

      Let's not jump to conclusions. All they did was move the property "into" the city, so it would have the same priority as any other city water user:

      "If it were not part of the city, the center would be considered a 'surplus priority' customer of the city, meaning its water supply would be cut if there were a shortage."

      So, it appears they cannot operate with no water, but that doesn't mean they'll use an inordinate amount of water, either (like fabs do). I don't think *any* business would want to be without water.

    14. Re:That's a great theory by khallow · · Score: 1

      until the people don't get water. Then they will; just destroy the data center in some manner.

      It's too bad that they can't expand the water system in some manner. Then every time the town residents have somewhat low water pressure, they wouldn't have to destroy the data center and endanger US security.

    15. Re:That's a great theory by Miseph · · Score: 1

      Either that or execasm over being able to claim that "Intel has made revolutionary advances in data center operation and efficiency based specifically on using windows".

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    16. Re:That's a great theory by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      The whole idea of cooling is that you do not have a closed system.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    17. Re:That's a great theory by QuoteMstr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Closed with respect to the water, not the energy.

      Automobile cooling system work just fine and don't consume fluid when operating properly. An open-loop system (where you lose the coolant) is cheaper and easier to build, but closed-loop systems work perfectly well.

    18. Re:That's a great theory by hawguy · · Score: 1

      While it's technically possible to recover the water, If they're going to recondense the vapor back to water anyway then they wouldn't need fresh water from the city, it could be a closed cycle. But this would significantly increase their energy costs which is why they want to use water cooling in the first place.

    19. Re:That's a great theory by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Which is why the parent poster was proposing an *open* solution - you pass the water through the facility once, then you send it to whoever wants to use luke-warm water and would have used large quantities of water anyway. Maybe a large laundry facility, chemical processing plant, etc.

      It could be used for heating in the winter if there are nearby buildings that need to be heated, but the low temperature of the water (probably 130 degrees or less) means that it would take large pipes and a lot of energy from pumps to push it any significant distance. And, depending on the climate, it may only be useful for half the year.

    20. Re:That's a great theory by sjames · · Score: 1

      Yeah, all they have to do is cool it until it condenses again. Too bad that's best done with an evaporative cooling system.

      In less smart ass words, if they could do that practically, they wouldn't need all the water in the first place.

    21. Re:That's a great theory by danlip · · Score: 1

      Heat pumps actually do really well at using barely warm water to heat buildings. You can even use cold water out of the ground (which is probably like 60 F, i.e. colder than you want you house to be but much warmer than the outside). Slightly warm water from the data center would be even better.

      But I wasn't even thinking of that when I wrote the GGP post. If you are pumping it long distances through the ground to get to the destination there will not be much of a noticeable temp change by the time it reaches the destination.

    22. Re:That's a great theory by Hordeking · · Score: 2

      If they ran the water through the system, and then to the customers, wouldn't they have to keep it separate from the secret parts of the facility, to prevent leaks?

      --
      Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
    23. Re:That's a great theory by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      As Slashdotters, I think we should be concerned about the vendor lock-in imposed by government purchases of moisture vaporators that speak a binary language.

      Shouldn't we be having a three to four way flame war between those of us who want them to speak an ISO standardized XML based language, the plaintext 4 lyfe UNIX crew, JSON-spouting web2.0 kids, and that dude with the beard who insists that only lisp macros are equal to the task?

    24. Re:That's a great theory by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      You obviously couldn't tell what was being processed(given that most chips are under heat-spreaders these days, you'd need modestly fiddly hardware to even get a rough heatmap of the die with physical access to the system); but it would be interesting to know if they consider how much load they are currently subject to to be sensitive information...

      Cynically, I'd tend to assume that if a CPU falls idle, they just tap more phone lines until it peaks again; but if that isn't actually the case, satellite sensors that could pick up IR or atmospheric water vapor concentrations could, in principle, get an approximate sense of the datacenter load over time, which might correlate with level of NSA interest in something.

    25. Re:That's a great theory by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Conventional systems use refrigeration machines to provide cooling to the facility and reject the heat to water pumped through cooling towers. About 1% of the water evaporates in the cooling tower, and because of the cooling effect of the evaporation, the water approaches the ambient wet bulb temperature, which in Utah is significantly cooler than the dry bulb temperature (about 30F difference in hot weather). This means the refrigeration works against a lower temperature difference and is much more efficient. In fact, it's so dry in Utah (especially at the higher elevations) that you can often successfully provide air conditioning just by evaporating room temperature water directly into the air stream, cooling ti down to about 55F to 65F in all but the most hot and humid weather.
      Trying to re-condense the water, as some others have suggested, would require an energy input, e.g. for refrigeration to cool the air below the dewpoint to get the water to condense. That defeats the whole purpose.
      In order to reusing any not-evaporated water for some other purpose means dealing with the biocides, corrosion inhibiters, concentrated dissolved solids, and other fun things that come with the territory. If you piped in pure, drinkable water and used it in a once-through open system, your pipes and heat exchangers would not last very long, and the discharge water would still not be considered potable.

    26. Re:That's a great theory by hawguy · · Score: 1

      What? Nobody's talking about forced condensing... you just have to capture the vapor and wait until nightfall, when it gets cold.

      But where are you going to store all of this vapor while you wait for nightfall?

      3MW = 10M BTU/hr (http://convert-to.com/conversion/power/convert-mw-to-btu-per-hr.html)
      890 BTU/lb of water = 1900 BTU/kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler#Physical_principles)

      10M BTU/hr * 12 hours / 1900 BTU/kg = 63157 kg of water (16,000 gal)

      pV=nRT

      Assuming you don't compress the resulting vapor (which takes energy):

      p = 1 atm
      n = 63157000 g / 18g/mole = 3500000 moles
      R=.082 atm*L/mole*K
      T = 50 C + 273 = 323 K

      V = nRT/p = 92 mllion L or 92 thousand cubic meters

      Or a 3 story building that is about 100 meters on each side. please check my math, I did this in a hurry.

      Whoops, just noticed that it was a 30MW datacenter, so multiply my numbers by 10 - so you need a 30 story building 100 meters on each side. Each floor of this containment building if it had floors) contains more floor space than the 100,000 square feet of the datacenter itself.

      And this is assuming that you only need to accumulate 12 hours of vapor until nightfall lets you condense it, and that your night-time temperatures condense 100% of the vapor.

      Are you sure it's practical to do this?

    27. Re:That's a great theory by xclr8r · · Score: 1

      Or they could use a geothermal system for cooling. Geo thermal is not always used for heating.

      --
      Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
    28. Re:That's a great theory by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      You would think they could recapture it.

      They damn well better. Did you know that water vapor is up to ten times worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas?

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    29. Re:That's a great theory by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      It's a shame they don't use a sealed system and just pass the water through. It would require much more water of course, but you could co-locate the data center with the water treatment plant and then just pass all the city's water through the data center to cool it and on to the consumers to drink, so no water would be wasted (although in this case I am not sure who would trust water that had been passed though an NSA controlled facility - if it was Google that would be OK because we know they do no evil :)

      Or why not move to Alaska and just air cool?

    30. Re:That's a great theory by wildstoo · · Score: 1

      You may be thinking of this story from not so long ago:

      http://slashdot.org/story/11/01/05/2227225/Microsoft-Puts-Datacenter-In-a-Barn

    31. Re:That's a great theory by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Something is seriously wrong with your volume calculation. At room temperature, 1 litre of water = 1kg. It expands a bit with temperature, but not by a factor of 1500 at 50degC.

    32. Re:That's a great theory by arivanov · · Score: 1

      It is the datacenter's fault.

      It is producing enough hot water to heat half of the town and is dumping that in the nearby river instead of establishing good "neighbourly relations".

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    33. Re:That's a great theory by greed · · Score: 1

      Such as system is in use in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Not for data centres specifically, but for air conditioning of downtown office buildings.

      It's called Deep Lake Water Cooling, and pulls 4degC water in from the deeper parts of the lake. The Enwave cooling plant then warms it up just a little bit, sinking heat from the buildings on its central cooling service. From there, the water goes to the treatment plants for the City's domestic water supply.

      From a citizen's perspective, tap water in late summer is cooler than it was before the system was built; the old--shallower--intakes were affected by lake heating in the summer. To the point where, in some years, by August the tap water was a bit manky because of the algae levels and corresponding increase in treatment chemicals. Don't seem to get that any more.

      For the City, an independent company built a whole new intake and pumping system, saving the works department the expense--the old intakes were on their last legs anyway.

      Obviously, part of why it works is because only one City on the lake is doing it.

      Toronto is not known for "dry heat" in summer. "Kill me now before the humidity does" is more like it... though Hong Kong and Washington, D.C. have us well-beat there, we do like to complain about the weather.

    34. Re:That's a great theory by hawguy · · Score: 1

      It's water vapor -- I gave you all of my work above, including the ideal gas formula, just so people could point out flaws in my calculations - feel free to point out the flaws (I know there are some), but don't say "Oh, that doesn't; make sense, a 1kg of water vapor shouldn't take up more than a liter of volume".

    35. Re:That's a great theory by Original+Replica · · Score: 1

      Or running a steam generator. Energy recapture with steam is basic industrial revolution stuff.

      --
      We are all just people.
  2. In other news.... by SniperX · · Score: 1

    After the location of their top-secret data center was made public, NSA has decide to auction off their data center on Ebay.

    "PARTIALLY USED. EX-TOP SECRET DATA CENTER. WITH NEW WATER SUPPLY NO RESERVE!!!!"

    1. Re:In other news.... by Dayofswords · · Score: 1

      *bids $0.01*

      --
      Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
  3. Make a hotspring resort out of it by erroneus · · Score: 1

    If they do the plumbing right, all they need to do is channel the hot water into a facility for rest and relaxation. For that matter, it could also be used in other ways. There has got to be a better way than this to make use of this hot water.

    Better -- stop the NSA domestic spying.

    1. Re:Make a hotspring resort out of it by Zapotek · · Score: 1

      I'm confused...you're saying it's OK to put a spa in the middle of a closed loop water cooling system which is vital to an NSA datacenter? o.O
      How 'bout you plug all the servers in a hub and then pull an Ethernet cable for the spa visitors to have some Top Secret data to read while they're relaxing?

    2. Re:Make a hotspring resort out of it by wmbetts · · Score: 1

      You sir are an IDEA MAN. We need more people like you working at the upper levels of government!

      --
      "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
    3. Re:Make a hotspring resort out of it by fleebait · · Score: 5, Funny

      If they do the plumbing right, all they need to do is channel the hot water into a facility for rest and relaxation. For that matter, it could also be used in other ways. There has got to be a better way than this to make use of this hot water.

      Better -- stop the NSA domestic spying.

      A significant problem with making a hotspring resort fed by an NSA datacenter is the extreme danger imposed by an inadvertant WikiLeak, and it's effect on the local infrastructure. Liquid NSA data running all over Utah might have unknown effects on the local environment.

    4. Re:Make a hotspring resort out of it by modecx · · Score: 1

      Better yet, we have a party and lure...err, invite all of our favorite politicians with hookers and blow...uhhh, delicious cake, at the SPA and then we could unbolt a few lively servers to give them company...

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    5. Re:Make a hotspring resort out of it by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      There's no hot water to be had. The air is so dry that the water evaporates into the air. The air cools substantially in the process.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

      I grew up with one of these - they work great in the desert. They cost a fraction of what it costs to get the same cooling from an air conditioning unit.

      They also use misters for outdoor restaurants - spray an aerosol of water into the air above the guests, and it evaporates completely before it touches anybody. In the process, the temperature drops 20-30 degrees F, which makes an intolerably hot patio into a comfortable experience.

      Better -- stop the NSA domestic spying.
      There's no significant opposition to what the NSA is doing in Utah, and thus no negative stigma to the workers. It's sort of a win-win for the feds.

      And as far as water usage overall: The biggest water use issue in Utah is typical suburbia: Lots of yards with lawns - covered with thirsty kentucky bluegrass.

      Residents are already used to rationing water - if only on the level of being forbidden to water their lawns.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    6. Re:Make a hotspring resort out of it by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Known side-effects of exposure to liquid classified data include knowing too much and extradition to Sweden.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    7. Re:Make a hotspring resort out of it by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      it adds transparency to the loop..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  4. Utah water supply by Gohtar · · Score: 3

    Every year us Utahns have to deal with our officials telling us there is not enough water to water our lawns or wash our cars and if we keep doing so there will not be enough water for our houses. Our main supply comes from the snow we get in our mountains. So yes we are limited. Our reservoirs have been slowly draining the past few years. Now we have to feed the NSA? And they have priority? Great.... I say give them my toilet water!

    1. Re:Utah water supply by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One does wonder why the NSA chose that particular climate to build a big, water-hungry datacenter...(and what inducements the town leadership accepted for the... good fortune... of having its water allocated to the NSA first and its citizens second.)

    2. Re:Utah water supply by rhook · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should try growing native vegetation in your yards instead of trying to grow grasses which are not native to the environment? You would use much less water and not have to worry so much about water shortages.

    3. Re:Utah water supply by Isaac-1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Can we say PORK

    4. Re:Utah water supply by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why do you have lawns then?
      Having lawns in places that would need a lawn to be watered is a braindead idea.

    5. Re:Utah water supply by geekoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's ok. I the worst case, the data center is only one backhoe away from not needing water.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:Utah water supply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One does wonder why the NSA chose that particular climate to build a big, water-hungry datacenter...(and what inducements the town leadership accepted for the... good fortune... of having its water allocated to the NSA first and its citizens second.)

      I can't speak to anything political about the town leadership, but as for location, I suspect it has something to do with cheap electricity. I live 10-15 miles from Bluffdale, and our power rates are around $0.07-0.09 USD per kWh. I think it's the same power company (http://www.rockymountainpower.net/).

    7. Re:Utah water supply by swanzilla · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why do you have lawns then? Having lawns in places that would need a lawn to be watered is a braindead idea.

      Now get off my lawn.

      --
      0 = 1 + e^(Alt something)
    8. Re:Utah water supply by saider · · Score: 1

      Because they have old people and homeowners associations. Gotta keep that lawn emerald green or face a stiff fine.

      --


      Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
    9. Re:Utah water supply by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Yep absolutely braindead. It's much smarter to allow all that fresh water to flow into a lifeless (brine shrimp don't count) inland salt water body where it promptly evaporates. Absolutely fucking brilliant I say!

      In fact it's so smart you could be considered a zombie!

    10. Re:Utah water supply by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Why do you have lawns then?

      If you don't have a lawn, you can't yell at kids to get off it.

      Having lawns in places that would need a lawn to be watered is a braindead idea.

      I'd just call it a very stupid way of squandering scarce resources.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    11. Re:Utah water supply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I live in Utah. Our small front yard is a combination of wood-chips and plants that do not require water. Our larger back yard has grass, which requires watering during the hottest months. Foregoing grass sounds like a good idea until you realize that a patch of blazing hot, dusty, arid desert interspersed with stunted oak-brush, clumpy dry grasses and cacti is useless for most typical back yard activities.

      So don't live in the desert, you say? You might be on to something there.

    12. Re:Utah water supply by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      If only we could have more than two possible outcomes to this problem. If only we could somehow not waste the water on grass and not let it flow into the salt lake. It is purely foolish to think there are more than two possible choices to any problem though.

      That was sarcasm and you are an idiot. The water could well be stored in any manner of ways that do not require dumping it on your lawn.

    13. Re:Utah water supply by ben_kelley · · Score: 1

      Everything he said, except that I don't think the zombies would be too worried about their lawns. Unless you mean that the brains might become the scarce resources?

    14. Re:Utah water supply by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      Do you suppose there might be some fundamental philosophical difference between catholics, mormons and jews that might justify higher per-capita resource consumption on the part of the latter?

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    15. Re:Utah water supply by TheReaperD · · Score: 1

      Unless you mean that the brains might become the scarce resources?

      They already are. Haven't you been able to tell from all the cable news and reality shows?

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    16. Re:Utah water supply by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Any reason the NSA can't use the water in the salt lake for cooling?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    17. Re:Utah water supply by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      If it's evaporative, then yes, you'd end up with a clogged system very quickly. If it's simply an open system and they are dumping the water, then it's possible. The Navy has used salt water cooling for a while now. Still, it's a bit of a pain because salt water is a pain to work with and tends to corrode things. It's possible, but more costly.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    18. Re:Utah water supply by hercubus · · Score: 1

      Why do you have lawns then? Having lawns in places that would need a lawn to be watered is a braindead idea.

      Not that much trouble really, a small matter of building a system to distrubute water -- think municipal water supply. Or would thinking be too much trouble?

      Jesus, we've descended to the point where a minor engineering problem elicits meh, why bother?

      Idiocracy

      --
      -- How I want a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.
    19. Re:Utah water supply by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Maybe the 40 miles between the Great Salt Lake and the location of the NSA facility.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    20. Re:Utah water supply by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      Two words: Evaporative Cooling

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

      Far more cost-effective than power hungry air conditioning units.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    21. Re:Utah water supply by lewko · · Score: 1

      Not without offending al-Qaeda.

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
    22. Re:Utah water supply by drsquare · · Score: 1

      A water supply is not a 'minor engineering problem'. Why do idiots on the Internet think they have all the answers?

    23. Re:Utah water supply by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      One does wonder why the NSA chose that particular climate to build a big, water-hungry datacenter...

      You mean a climate of monoculture, compliant, unquestioning, god-fearing worker bees? That kind of climate?

    24. Re:Utah water supply by garwain · · Score: 1

      Good question. My lawn is simply clover and alphapha and whatever weeds have taken over. In the late spring, early summer, its nice and green, and needs mowing about every 5 days. Mid summer, to autumn, it stays fairly green, and needs mowing about every 10 days, with no water added. Of course, everyone wants the nice perfect sod, that sucks water like there's no tomorrow, or turns brown. Simply use vegetation that is natural to the region, and accept what happens. if you don't like the appearance, then invest in astroturf. No need to water, mow, or maintain in any way!

    25. Re:Utah water supply by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      The Catholic religion is not renowned for pedophilia, they are renowned for the attempted coverup of it. The percentages are still lower then the general population. Also, the wide majority of Mormons are law abiding citizens, which is required by their religion. They don't generally support polygamy, they are actually forbidden from practicing it by the government of the US, it is only those splinter cults which practice it, and generally get shut down by the feds.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    26. Re:Utah water supply by Technoodle · · Score: 1

      Pork.

    27. Re:Utah water supply by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      The water you are discussing is on it's way to the Great Salt Lake. If not impeded and used that's where it ends up. In fact it is impeded, there are close to 30 man made storage reservoirs between the Uinta basin and the Jordan River which drains to the GSL. In the past this water was used to farm the Greater Salt Lake area, most of that farm land is now Residential and commercial parcels where water use is 1/10 the agricultural rate. There isn't some magical fairy that can move the water somewhere else where it can be more productively used. If this water is not used, productively or not, it ends up in the GSL where it promptly evaporates at 15inches per year. The less water used, more flows to the GSL and the larger the lake will grow increasing surface area and increasing the total volume of evaporation. So Mr. Brilliant, just what exactly should this water be used for and what fucking good would it do to "stored in a manner of ways"? What are they supposed to do, bottle it up and ship it out of state at a higher price than gasoline?

      You are as big of a fucking moron as that Las Vegas bitch in Nevada who dared claim that because water on the Wasatch front is used to water lawns it justified her draining the Great Basin (not the same place!) of 10' of ground water a year which would destroy the entire ecology of the basin and probably turn it into a dust bowl. You don't know a damn thing about water use or it's engineering so why don't you shut your mouth and bask in your own ignorance.

    28. Re:Utah water supply by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      The water is 9 times saltier than the ocean. You couldn't use it for cooling as it would corrode anything it touches that's not stainless. Even stainless it's quickly going to clog with salt deposits.

      The biggest reason they can't use GSL water for cooling is the facility is about 20 miles from the GSL.

    29. Re:Utah water supply by Spugglefink · · Score: 1

      What we need is a species of Kentucky Blue Grass that is drought-resistant...

      There already is one. It's called Astroturf.

  5. Warm globally, Cool locally..? by Bob_Who · · Score: 1

    ...Or just act really cool locally, totally incognito - a future so byte you gotta wear shades..

  6. Lake Superior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I still don't understand why people put data centers in stupid places. Lake Superior is deep and cold and can sink more therms than you can possibly make. But, no, let's put our new data center someplace where water is at a premium and then tell everybody about it.

    1. Re:Lake Superior by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is Lake Superior in your congressional district? No? Then STFU.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    2. Re:Lake Superior by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Not only that, in the Lake Superior area, it's cold enough you could use open-air cooling half the year.

  7. Do I smell Orrin Hatch? by MarkvW · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why would you locate something that demands cooling resources in the MIDDLE OF A DESERT?
    Because an influential Senator wants the facility there, perhaps?

    1. Re:Do I smell Orrin Hatch? by misplacedonline · · Score: 1

      "Why would you locate something that demands cooling resources in the MIDDLE OF A DESERT?" Because it's really, really close to Area 51. All the aliens that live there have offered to fix the Utah water supply by bringing in icebergs from Pluto. Orrin Hatch is one of the aliens.

  8. Interesting choice of location by hendersj · · Score: 1

    I hadn't actually heard about this data center (I live in Utah), but there's a nagging little voice in the back of my head that's wondering if the NSA will hire prisoners from the nearby state prison, also located in Bluffdale.

    Of course such an idea is ridiculous, but it's funny that the town will boast both an NSA data center and the state prison.

    --
    Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.
    1. Re:Interesting choice of location by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Well, it'll save the NSA spooks a long bus ride when the revolution comes.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    2. Re:Interesting choice of location by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      John "Iran-Contra" Poindexter would like to remind you that felony convictions and employment in the shadowy national security bureaucracy are hardly incompatible...

  9. maybe a stupid question by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    ...but are data centers really consuming water?

    If they're using it for cooling, I doubt they're generating temps that actually evaporate the water...aren't they just essentially heating it and then returning it to the water table?

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    -Styopa
    1. Re:maybe a stupid question by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      They really are consuming water:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

      Basically, evaporative coolers blow air through a wet 'sponge' like material. They constantly drip water on the sponge. The air evaporates the water, and cools off 20-30 degrees F in the process. Far cheaper than air conditioning units, far less power used, more 'green', etc.

      The air is so dry to begin with that even with the water evaporating into the air, the humidity rarely tops 40-50%.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    2. Re:maybe a stupid question by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I was coming to ask the same question as the GP.

      In this situation it seems that it might be a good idea to go for a solution that uses more power but consumes less water. Utah has lots of sun and wide open plains right? Seems like solar or wind power might be good choices.

      But you can see why they chose evaporative cooling when you consider the environment. A desert-like environment is the worst possible place to put a data center, if they were smart they'd put it by a shore or lake, with a heat exchanger running deep into the frigid water.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    3. Re:maybe a stupid question by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      Bluffdale isn't far from two lakes: Utah Lake and the Great Salt Lake. The Great Salt Lake is a lost cause for evaporative cooling - but Utah Lake is not.

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      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.