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Apple vs. Microsoft: a Tale of Two Mobile Updates
snydeq writes "The latest mobile updates from Apple and Microsoft provide a stark contrast, one emblematic of the differences between the two companies, InfoWorld's Ted Samson writes. Militantly on time, Apple's iOS 4.3 update offers significant new functionality, total disregard for what Apple considers outdated systems, and mandated silencing of user complaints. Microsoft, meanwhile, has finally managed to push out an alleged February update to a subset of users, along with a lamentation about having to deal with handset and carrier fragmentation."
Slashdotters have usually put Windows Phone 7 down because of the old clumsy feel of older Windows Mobile phones and the OS, but you have to remember WP7 is completely different beast and it's completely redesigned. Personally I think it has great future in front of it. They have the best phone manufacturer Nokia on board and WP7 is a huge advancement as OS. C# and other available languages along with Xbox Live and XNA integration is awesome or developers. For users the interface is at the same time innovative and easy to use, and they don't need to take a specific phone but can choose from wide array of phones the one that best suits them. Still WP7 doesn't have the fragmentation issue that Android has because Microsoft at least has some hardware requirements for the phones.
As soon as Nokia's Windows Phone 7 devices are released, I will probably get one. Both iPhone and Android have many issues caused mostly because they're fundamentally so far from each, like left and right. Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 is in the middle ground and takes the best from both worlds.
While I agree to some extent, the choice shouldn't have to be between incompetence and a walled garden.
It would drive the carriers insane, but Apple could open up iOS a bit more without causing compatibility problems between apps and OS versions.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
On the one hand, you have Apple, which quietly rolled out iOS 4.3 with the precision of a Swiss watch. The update came a day earlier than expected, in fact. ;)
For a watch, that's pretty crappy precision
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
Microsoft: 141 days and counting to push out a small, superficial update.
I was really tempted to buy a WP7 phone at release because it really shows that Android and iPhone aren't great at all. I'm glad I didn't, because Microsoft's handling of it is less than competent.
Which essentially is updates "if the carriers & manufactures feel like it (but secretly they don't because they don't want to devalue their newer offerings)". Barring that, the end user either follows some obscure steps to upgrade their phone from some Android hacking website, or is told to go pound sand. Not very good options for common non-techie end users like my aunt.
Historically, most Apple devices you buy new today is good for about 2 years of firmware updates.
Seems that everyone has forgotten that Apple delayed the iOS 4.2 update back in November.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/12/ios-4-2-reportedly-delayed-ipad-wifi-...
It was slated to come early November and it wasn't available until late November. Nobody seem to think this was a sign of an incapable Apple. I don't understand why if Microsoft delays an update by a couple of weeks as well, bloggers begin to hammer on them as if they can't keep up.
How about we look at it this way... Apple, with total control over their ecosystem, delayed a significant update to one of their mobile devices by a couple of weeks. This came after they had practice with several other updates over a course of several years. Microsoft, who has to managed its mobile platform across several devices and several manufacturers, has delayed its first significant update to multiple devices by a nearly identical amount of time as Apple, with less than one year of practice under this OS.
Viewed that way, it seems like a pretty good job to me...
I don't mind the take and or not stance, it's the "don't you dare say anything bad about it" stance that bugs me. Surely they're secure enough to take a little criticism, no? I thought the idea that being surrounded by "yes-men" was some sort of apogee of social(/corporate) status was well-ridiculed at this point---you need some criticism, or you eventually just end up stagnant, staring with glee at your own navel as the world changes around you...
The article is considers Apple releasing this update on time and Microsoft releasing theirs late and in a piecemeal fashion as an indication of what the companies are like, but the author forgets two things. First, the iOS 4.2 was delayed (actually cancelled and later released as 4.2.1) when a WiFi bug was found. Granted it wasn't as long a Microsoft's delay, but still...
Second, the iPad was stuck at iOS 3.x for a long time after 4.x was available for the iPhone and iPod. It skipped 4.0 and 4.1 until it finally hit OS parity at 4.2.1. This was despite Apple controlling both the hardware and software as the article suggests.
As to Microsoft's offering, I have never considered WP7 to be a released product until they fixed the basic things like copy/paste. The old adage of always waiting for a ".1" release of a Microsoft product was true again. It was disappointing after they got it so right with Windows 7.
Microsoft issues an update: it's supposed to update the updating system for future updates. It bricks phones.
Apple issues an update: Adds a few minor features, fixes bugs, improves web browser performance. It Just Works.
I find the trolling with "mandatory silencing of complaints" ironic since one of the features in iOS 4.3 - a user preference for the switch on the iPad to function as orientation lock or mute - is specifically in response to user feedback.
Meanwhile, Google issues an update. You can't use it until your carrier/handset manufacturer says you can (it took a month for Gingerbread to show up even on Google's own Nexus).
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
Which phones out there get vendor supplied updates after 3 years? Certainly not any that I've ever owned.
My company got me a Droid Eris (I had no choice). 6 months later, no update to Android 2.2. (Maybe 8. Whatever)
I'm not sure why Apple is getting dinged for not supporting a 3 year old phone. No one that I know of supports 3 year old phones.
What other phone has seen active updates for 28 months?
I mean besides the original iPhone.
It would drive the carriers insane, but Apple could open up iOS a bit more without causing compatibility problems between apps and OS versions.
Anytime someone complains about Apple not being open enough, I'm compelled to state that just like with most large corporations, Apple exists to make money through some corporate vision, and that sometimes their business decisions override engineering decisions.
Overall, Apple still makes kit that is worth the purchase and inconvenience to a great number of folks, so Apple continues to make lots of money the hard way. Unlike Microsoft and other monopolists / rent-seekers, Apple (for the most part) isn't mandatory anywhere (exception being a few .edu places which require purchase of iPads or iPod Touch devices... I'm hoping these places either subsidize those required purchases or allow alternate options).
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Every android phone running Cyanogen mod.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
I might appreciate the walled garden a little more... if I didn't have an iPhone 3G on my desk. It is only JUST out of its two-year service agreement with AT&T. I'm sure there are other people who bought new 3G phones who are still under contract but out of support.
What phone am I going to get next? Well, I crossed iPhone 4 off the list already, so I'll probably get an Android device and reconsider Apple when the iPhone 5 or 6 comes out.
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
Tyranny is not a good solution to mistakes, such as the "bumbling incompetence" that you ascribe to Microsoft.
Microsoft and some of the Google OEM's have made mistakes, but that is not because they aren't practicing tyranny.
For example, this week we heard that Google had made a mistake and not caught a virus in some apps in its Marketplace. Apple supporters jumped on this and declared that this was the result of Google's more open app store, which makes no sense. Open app stores can and should block viruses and malware, and they usually do. The problem in this case is not that Google isn't authoritarian enough, it is simply that they messed up.
Freedom is messy in many ways compared to authoritarianism, but the claim that it can't function well is a false defense of authoritarianism.
They didn't discontinue the iPhone 3G until June 7, 2010. Inventories don't often magically evaporate either so who knows when the iPhone 3G was no longer for sale by Apple's partners. They should do the right thing and do a point release of whatever iOS will run on the 3G containing just the security fixes.
Which phones out there get vendor supplied updates after 3 years? Certainly not any that I've ever owned.
Nor I, I'll admit.
That said, here's the problem--especially as it relates to the iPhone: This update includes various bug fixes for the Safari browser which improve security. Yet I can't get those if I have an iPhone 3G. And it's not like I can say, "Well, I'll just use another browser" because Apple won't allow Chrome or Firefox browser in their store. So my choice is...buy another iPhone.
Don't get me wrong--I have no problem with Apple saying "Hey, you don't get any of the cool new features of iOS 4.3 on your iPhone 3G." I think it's a little tacky, but I can understand that the hardware may not be able to deal with it. Where I have the problem is that Apple isn't even sending me bug fixes for applications.
Again, I suppose it's the way of the world for software. But your car doesn't work that way--hell, I had a recall notice for my Audi a year or two ago when the car was 7 years old. And we're not talking something like brakes failing where I could have been killed. So maybe it's time for software companies to support these things for a bit longer than 2 years...
Nokia/Symbian?
They might be diffcult to backport... Especially the Safari stuff. I imagine, there are more reasons other than pushing users into buying an iPhone4. Not that this is a good or valid excuse....
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
My Nokia N95-1 did.
Original firmware: 10.0.018, released 15/03/2007 ..which is good-as 3 years. Especially by the time it filtered down to each product code. :(
Latest firmware: 35.0.002, released 22/12/2009
Nokia used to be great
Boo.
The original N95 firmware was basically unusable though.
It took about a year for nokia to release a version that supported demand paging and actually made the phone usable.
Much as I agree with the sentiment. It seems a little hollow pointing out Windows Updates. Microsoft never intended to have such a long term release of XP, which needed SP2 out one of the delays for Vista. Vista itself was undelivered on its promises. Hardware has only just caught up, Many users simply do not have an upgrade path. This is with XP still sold on machines until late last year, but the big irony is IE9 is not available to pre Vista SP2.
Microsoft act in their own self interest which I hope is in yours too. Although I very much doubt it will be.
Which phones out there get vendor supplied updates after 3 years?
Does it matter? Do we judge fairness by the lowest common denominator? The fact is that Apple was still happily signing people up for two year contacts with AT&T on brand freaking new iPhone 3Gs until last June. Now, it's ok that people who are contractually obligated to pay for service for the next 14+ months be left vulnerable to attack? This, just because Apple first started selling the device in '08 and other manufacturers have track records of treating their customers like crap? It may be a three year old phone to the guys currently playing with iPhone 5 or 6 prototypes under black curtains, but to some, it's well under a year old. Maybe these people shouldn't expect multitasking, (no way on that hardware) wallpapers, or the other various cool new iOS 4 features, but they sure as hell ought to be able to surf the web without their devices being compromised.
Opera mini web browser is available for the iPhone and it's a free app. Granted I think it sucks compared to the native Safari, but you do have at least one easy option.
Apple lost me when it wanted me to fork over another 20$ to get a mpg to mov converter for the iMac. I paid premium price for it, and I do not want to be nickel and dimed. Yeah, I know enough to download and install ffmpg, and handbrake etc. But still it feels like buying a Lexus and then the sales man wants 20$ more for some floor mats.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Apple allows other browsers, go grab Opera Mini. It doesn't let you change the default web browser though.
What do you mean mpg to mov?
mpeg is is a format, while mov is a container format. mpeg can go *inside* a mov container, but converting one to the other is like saying "I need a converter to change my coffee beans into a coffee jar".
If you mean the mpeg2 encoder, which Apple doesn't include by default with Quicktime (only the decoder) then that's the licensing fee problem. Apple are just passing the cost on. I guess they could eat the cost (like they do for the H.264 fee), but you'd have to take that up with them.
So if we're allowing that sort of thing, the iPhone 3G is still supported. Just install Android on it.
Try saying Opera: http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/03/04/1453241/Apple-You-Must-Be-17-To-Use-Opera#comments
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
Agreed. In fact, prior to my iPhone 3G, I never had phone hardware last longer than 2 years. I just expect longevity from my Apples, and have always got it. There's still a 2000 iMac in my family, still boots just fine!
That's a really fair point, and I had forgotten that iPhone 3G was still available (albeit at a discount) until the iPhone 4. It seems that hardware should be supported at least until the last officially subsidized phone contract expires.
So zero Android phones trump 6.1 million iPhones? I believe the only Android phone that is 28 months old is the T-Mobile G1, and that doesn't seem to be supported: http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices. I don't think having to rely on a roll your own version counts any more than jailbroken iPhones. Obviously the claim should be true in a year or so, but Apple may have provided an update to Safari by then.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
While I agree to some extent, the choice shouldn't have to be between incompetence and a walled garden.
It would drive the carriers insane, but Apple could open up iOS a bit more without causing compatibility problems between apps and OS versions.
You are not missing much dude. I have tried jailbraking on both my iPhone and iPad. You gain very little in exchange for the pain of having to wait for an updated jailbreak, faster battery drain and instability. With the constant updates that Apple have made, there is very little reason now to jailbreak especially in countries like Canada which now offer legal unlocking of iPhones.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
I think he may mean QuickTime Pro which has extended functionality over QuickTime. However he could get the same functionality in a free package and he somehow felt cheated. That's a rather puzzling reaction.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
No true hipster drinks Zima. It's Schlitz or PBR for the irony.
"If sorry were enough, we wouldn't need seppuku"
and probably wont be buying apple
While I agree to some extent, the choice shouldn't have to be between incompetence and a walled garden.
There's a lot of things that "shouldn't have to be"; but are.
It would drive the carriers insane, but Apple could open up iOS a bit more without causing compatibility problems between apps and OS versions.
In your (not-so) humble opinion, of course. And your credentials to be making that bold and sweeping statement?
Since the Curated Collection seems to be working just-a fine for all but a fairly small minority of the smartphone-buying (and using) public, and the number of iOS exploits in the wild even without the security patches has been in the (low) single-digits, I think Apple has really got a handle on this "post-PC" paradigm (and no, that DOESN'T mean only CONSUMPTION) so far ahead of everyone else, that it really isn't even in the same orbit.
The iPhone 3G seems to be the last of the "first generation" of iPhone hardware. I would bet that the versions have diverged to the point that it is getting impractical to support the older architecture, without patching larger and larger swaths of OS code. However, I am sure that if a actual new exploit targeting the earlier devices appears in the wild, gets past Apple's Approval process, that a "Security Update" will happen to at least iOS 4.2.
I am sure someone will comment at this point about my username; but with only a couple of exploits in the wild, (which got quickly patched, and one of which involved a Jailbreak process from an app downloaded outside of the iOS App Store) obviously even the previous iOS versions aren't particularly low-hanging fruit.
And considering the "marketshare" that iOS (and its various devices) enjoy, the naysayers (see? I didn't call them "Haters") hardly have that old horse to haul out and beat this time.
Say what you will, but with 250k+ apps for the iPhone, the "Walls" of the "Garden" are, for most users, pretty far away. And since those "Walls" seem to be doing a damn good job of keeping bad guys out, I am willing to cautiously allow Apple to man the gates to the "Walled Garden".
And it's not like you're making a choice about a life-partner; it's a fucking phone, fercrissakes!
Try it, don't like it, choose again.
At some point, the user has to exercise his ultimate freedom to choose. And no amount of RDF can allow the user to inform himself BEFORE choosing.
Apple lost me when it wanted me to fork over another 20$ to get a mpg to mov converter for the iMac. I paid premium price for it, and I do not want to be nickel and dimed. Yeah, I know enough to download and install ffmpg, and handbrake etc. But still it feels like buying a Lexus and then the sales man wants 20$ more for some floor mats.
Apple is a business and no one said you had to buy all your software from Apple; the fact you can get the same functionality for free from another package kinda defeats your entire complaint. Also there is a difference between standard functionality and enhanced functionality. Play mpeg or movs should be standard. Converting from one format to another may not be. Most business define the difference even if you don't like that there is a line between the two. After all, do you get Office free from MS when you buy Windows? To extend your Lexus analogy, it should come with regular floormats; what you're asking for is the premium floormats which require negotiation on your part before the sale is made. If you haven't bought a car recently, most salespeople will try to get as much out of you as possible upselling.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I might appreciate the walled garden a little more... if I didn't have an iPhone 3G on my desk. It is only JUST out of its two-year service agreement with AT&T. I'm sure there are other people who bought new 3G phones who are still under contract but out of support.
What phone am I going to get next? Well, I crossed iPhone 4 off the list already, so I'll probably get an Android device and reconsider Apple when the iPhone 5 or 6 comes out.
Which is likely to be in the not-too-distant future...
Once your car is out-of-warranty, is the manufacturer obliged to keep parts in stock to restore it to showroom condition?
What about Building Materials for your house, or Matching Furniture (if you break a chair for your dining room table) once the product has been taken off the market?
The Brand new iPhone 3G purchased 11 months ago was like a car that had been sitting on the lot for 3 years. It was in a runout sale.
Apple have certainly learnt their PR lesson here, the iPad 1 is available for $100 less than an iPad 2, but purchasers definitely realise they are buying a product with a shortened obsolescence cycle.
If they purchased it from an unscrupulous Carrier outlet (and which Carrier outlets are scrupulous), they may have not known that they were buying a soon-to-be obsolete phone.
If they had have purchased it from an Apple Store, or spent 30 seconds on Wikipedia however, they would have definitely known. Apple Store upsells to encourage customer satisfaction with the product, Carrier outlets downsell to clear obsolete inventory. Wikipedia Empowers consumers with knowledge, which is why it's not allowed in Carrier outlets.
Caveat Emptor.
huh? i'm still getting updates for my PowerPC Mac Mini which has to be over 6 years old, and XP is going to be patched until 2014.
My only complaint is that they did not wait until the next generation iPhone was released. The iPhone 5, or whatever it will be named, should be released in a few months. It seems pointless to think about getting an iPhone 4 this late in the release cycle.
So what happens if you bought a 3G last May (before they were discontinued) and your phone gets hacked? What will they do if you take it to the Apple store? It's still under warranty until at least this May. It's one thing not to support new features on older phones but leaving a phone still under warranty vulnerable is inexcusable!
Just because an iphone can make calls doesn't mean that's all it's good for. Ever since phones got internet connectivity they have come a lot closer to being PCs and need to be thought of in the same way. The same need for security fixes, updates and applications.
What Apple have done here is to say "Buy something from us and you can expect us to drop you in the smelly stuff after 2 years". That's all you should expect from it, a shorter life expectancy than your kids goldfish.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Your UID shows that you should know better; typically cars have all parts available for at least 10 years after production.
Is it old age or plain stupidity showing on your comment?
If you can't make a proper car analogy, don't use it.
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. - Cardinal Wolsey
12 months is the standard warranty. 24 months is the standard contract. On the plan I signed up for (in AUS), it was cheaper to buy a phone on contract than buy one outright and go SIM-only. Of course the phone I bought was obsolete within 6 months!
At the end of 2 years, they generally throw in a free phone to roll your contract over. I dare say it's normally a low end phone they'd soon EOL.
I have about a year to run so I just hope an HTC phone with at least an 800Ghz CPU is low end by then - at least I'll be able to Cyanogen mod it for the following 2 years!
But six months in cell phone years is like three years in car years.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
As someone else posted, the G1 (Dream) is fully supported by CyanogenMod. There are versions for both radio subsets as well (EBI0 and EBI1).
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Don't get me wrong--I have no problem with Apple saying "Hey, you don't get any of the cool new features of iOS 4.3 on your iPhone 3G." I think it's a little tacky, but I can understand that the hardware may not be able to deal with it.
So which is it? You think it's a little tacky (implying that Apple is somehow deliberately slighting users of old hardware, to force the purchase of a new phone); OR do you Understand that the hardware may not be able to deal with it? (implying that you realize that Apple can't do impossible things any more than anyone else can)
They are pretty much mutually-exclusive positions.
So maybe it's time for software companies to support these things for a bit longer than 2 years...
Maybe so; but as we all know, "high-tech" devices "evolve" particularly fast compared to your Audi's internals; so it is far more likely that it becomes simply impractical to support the older hardware far sooner than with a typical car.
And I have my iPhone 3G as well. And I feel betrayed. Not only is my 2 years up with AT&T with no way to legally (Apple legal, not legislation) unlock it, I now can expect no more updates for my phone, and many many more apps to respond "this app requires Version #.#, you must upgrade your phone to run this" (I currently get that on the wife's old 2G that can't be updated to the minimum to run it, not a mention of the phone being unable to run it, but telling me to upgrade to something I can't run).
But to have it essentially abandoned after a few years sours me. At least with Windows phones, I would shop for a model recently discontinued or from a startup company recently gone under (and there were lots to choose from) and get something new and unlocked for $100 and know exactly what I was getting, even if with no support. Sometimes I'd grab two. They were never upgraded from one version to another, so getting the unsupported ones didn't really lose me much.
Learn to love Alaska
Computers and phones are different but I will take MS's record for updates over Apples any day.
Are you SURE you want to stick with that statement? I'm not sure you'll find much support for that position even on Apple-hating Slashdot.
Here in Australia, when you get a phone,t he contract is 2 years. I still have 3 months left on said contract - the phone? the 3g. The IOS 4 update slowed it down alot, now banning on features for the 3g, that is bad business practice. Just a note for the fanboi's before they start up - the 3gs wasn't released (or announced) when the phone was purchased.
Apple Fanboy: Oh wow, look at those shiny new features in this new product I can buy right now but won't really use and will restrict me in some horrible way.
MS Fanboy: Oh wow, look at those shiny new features MS is claiming will be in its product sometime soon but I got to buy it right now and just take their word for it.
Linux Fanboy: Oh wow, look at those shiny new features that Gnome has taken away, KDE has added with a horrible skin and insane configuration and Enlightenment has had in alpha state for about a decade now!
BSD Fanboy: Oh wow, look at those shiny new features everyone else had for a decade but are really really well tested and secure so nobody can penetrate my system and learn my secret to eternal life!
Apple, MS and Linux fanboys: AAAAH, The undead! Run for your lifes!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I have no idea. If they are obliged by some law, then that's a bad law. But one thing's for sure: those parts are easily available. If you can't easily get parts for a 10 year old car, you're probably not looking very hard.
But car analogies aside.. you can upgrade the software a ten year old computer too, as long as that computer doesn't fit in your pocket. apt-get dist-upgrade, and there you have it. But if the computer fits in your pocket, suddenly the standard is so much lower? The idea that a year old computer is obsolete, is just crazy.
This isn't like stocking chairs or car parts anyway. Porting drivers for the very few devices Apple has sold, forward to the new OSes, is a thousand times cheaper. If Linus said "no, I don't want 2.6.40 to be able to talk to SATA2 drives anymore; people should just upgrade to SATA3 hardware," he would be committed to the loony bin.
Don't get me wrong, I do know why they fuck you, but I don't know why anyone bends over for it, or why you defend the practice. The bright side to all this, is that it's out in the open. Knowing what you know about how the product won't get software maintenance, would you buy an iPhone? Just say no. If enough people said no, then the phone market might start to suck a lot less.
I don't know how to break it to you or Microsoft but your cell phone is not a device with a 5 year support contract or a place to run mission critical applications.
I dunno, but the Nexus One has received two major Android updates since its release just over a year ago. That's as many as any iPhone has ever received. And, they've both been at least as significant as any iOS update.
It's not clear to me why iOS's slower update cycle is anything to brag about.
As far as I know, it is AT&T that is keeping you from unlocking that iPhone and not Apple. I have an officially unlocked iPhone from T-Mobile in Austria. Gave them my IMEI number when the contract was up (plus some cash) and got an email back that told me to use itunes to register the phone as unlocked. Works great. I'm still amazed at just how many of the restrictions the iPhone had at launch seem to be a direct attempt at protecting AT&T's business model.
Which phones out there get vendor supplied updates after 3 years? Certainly not any that I've ever owned.
My company got me a Droid Eris (I had no choice). 6 months later, no update to Android 2.2. (Maybe 8. Whatever)
I'm not sure why Apple is getting dinged for not supporting a 3 year old phone. No one that I know of supports 3 year old phones.
Computer World did an interesting comparison of which companies have offered upgrades to Froyo, and for how many of their phones.
Even the highest score (HTC) was only 50%. Here is the breakdown:
HTC: 50%
Motorola: 15.4%
Samsung: 11%
Dell: 0%
LG: 0%
Sony: 0%
Dell Streak was updated to Froyo, November 15, 2010. Considering that fact, I wouldn't trust the source you cite.
If you'd like a reference for that: http://en.community.dell.com/dell-blogs/Direct2Dell/b/direct2dell/archive/2010/11/15/android-2-2-froyo-and-the-dell-streak-details-on-how-the-upgrade-will-work.aspx
Also, as a follow up, the vast majority of phones released, have been updated to 2.2 or better, if you're willing to change the ROM yourself.
The corner of a round room
Which phones out there get vendor supplied updates after 3 years?
I always find it strange when someone counts support time from the release date of a product.
What if the product is sold for 4 years but only supported 3 years from release date?
Support time should be counted from the date the product is pulled from the market.
It also hasn't been updated in ages. I don't think it is being actively developed.
What? A device manufacturer isn't releasing a software update for a device that's 2,5 years old (3G launch date: 11.08.2008)? Someone call the press! Seriously, with other manufacturers you are lucky if you get updates for a single year. Bitching that your 2,5 year old phone isn't getting an update is completely ridiculous.
its not about when the original launch date was, its about when the last sale date was.
the point is that there are iPhone 3G users who are still in their 2 year contract period.
The issue is much worse with Android phones, but we've been moaning about that for ages now already. Apple has been praised for its backwards compatibility until now, so its deserving of the criticism on this point I think.
If the iPhone 3G had been discontinued over 2 years ago from retail stores then I'd agree with you.
and even then, I'm not suggesting any phone needs feature updates, just security updates. Google (and partners) - that means you too!
This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
They were selling the iPhone 3G as new hardware until June of last year. I don't think it unreasonable to think a smartphone vendor should release at least security updates for the duration of a standard service contract.
Fair enough. Personally, I found the phone usable before they added the paging though. The only thing that caused problems was websites that really overdid the flash and crappy layouts requiring constant reflow (*cough*Slashdot*cough*).
I never did understand how a phone with 96MB of RAM struggled whilst an old PC of mine with 16MB used to manage just fine... ...6 years in-between notwithstanding :)
Boo.
In all honesty? WinMo 6 phones that were supported by WinMo 6.5. Not to mention WinMo 5 that had support for over 60 months.
Actually MPEG can be a container format as well, as in MPEG-2 Transport streams or Program streams.
But they're talking about security issues. Isn't that more like ignoring a vehicle recall because the vehicle is out of warranty?
Once your car is out-of-warranty, is the manufacturer obliged to keep parts in stock to restore it to showroom condition?
Depending on where you live - yes, this could very well be the case. Many European countries seem to have regulations on the availability of spare parts for cars.
In fact, given the price and reasonable expected lifespan of an iPhone, Apple could very well face legal repercussions in most EU countries for not keeping the product in safe working condition. The same could happen to Sony for disabling the "other OS" option in their playstation. It's all about reasonable expectations.
And those were sold (configured as you note) where?
Except the IPhone 3G has a 1 year warranty.
http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/iphone/3g.html
If I had picked one up on a two year contract 9 months ago I'd have hoped that they would keep it up to date for two years, but expected at least the 1 year that was covered by the warranty. I mean slashdot car analogy here, but if I buy a new Hyundai and it's got a 10 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty, I'm going to expect that Hyundai is going to keep enough parts around to fix something. I'm also going to hope that if they find that the 2009 Elantra has a defect (bug) that they'll send out an update to all the dealers letting them know how to fix the problem.
Hyundai has no legal obligation to do this, but they will. Do you know why? Because they know that Hyundai will get a rep as a car with problems if they don't.
Apple has no legal obligation to keep peoples 9 month old phones up to date, but these vulnerabilities are published and out there. The TIFF vulnerability is especially embarrassing due to the sheer amount of time everyone has known about it. Also Apple can't hide behind their tried and true, no one is going to bother hacking us because no one runs our OS like they have with OSX. They are the leader now and they'd best get used to it or their reputation for "It Just Works", will be replaced by "It Just Gets Pwntd".
I bought my iPhone 3G less than 18 months ago. I would have got a 3Gs, but it was out of stock, and I needed a replacement phone at the time. The salesman talked me into a 3G because the differences between it and the 3Gs were not very significant. I keep hearing about these AT&T 2 year contracts. Must be nice. In Canada, it takes a 3 year discount to receive the full discount. I have a little over 18 months left in my contract for a phone I purchased brand new that is now no longer supported. Awesome.
From your description, it was Apple and Apple alone that unlocked it. You did it through iTunes. AT&T does not run iTunes. Only Apple does. They could just have a policy to unlock every iPhone 2 years after it is first activated. Or they could deal with phone owners directly to unlock them. They do not. Apple is the sole entity that can unlock them (as you stated, when you could only use iTunes to do it), and so you've done nothing but justify who my frustration is directed at.
Learn to love Alaska
You could always switch to Opera which works with iOS 2.2.1 or later although bizarrely it says you have to be over 17 to download it? Why?
Car manufacturers still make parts for models that haven't been available for decades so your analogy there fails.
The fact is that Apple was still happily signing people up for two year contacts with AT&T on brand freaking new iPhone 3Gs until last June.
Wrong : the iPhone 3GS is still supported by the new 4.3 version (see here).
What cannot be upgraded is the iPhone 3G, released in 2008. Just ask a random Android users how long his phone will get free upgrades.
Once again, I'm confounded by how Slashdotters will obviously put quite a bit of time and thought into a reply that doesn't address a single point of the parent topic.
Slashdot of 2011 seems suspiciously like /b/ of 2008.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
But this is exactly the point I was making in my original post;
Jailbreaking an iPhone is a hobby, so there's no professionally made software, add-on drivers, external hardware, etc. that works with a jailbroken iPhone.
Apple can still be a tyrant with the OS and allow for openness with regards to applications, drivers (to some extent) etc. without causing carriers any grief. Will it be harder to use for consumers? I don't see why it would, as long as those same consumers continue to live within the walls provided by Apple.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
It is a valid complaint that the 3G is not supported. They were last for sale OFFICIALLY in June of 2010. I know it was the second year for the 3G, but it's only NINE MONTHS since the phone was for sale under TWO YEAR contract, that's it is unsupported now is bad form, even from Apple. If I had a phone and halfway through the contract it stopped being updated that would make me upset too.
I have the 3GS, bought in December on 2 year contract. Does this mean my phone stops updating in March of 2012 leaving me with no updates as the app store moves forward, no updated apps either, for 9 months? Apple sold a lot of 3G, but they've been selling 3GS like crazy for 21 months... this is going to turn the tide more and more against them, they're setting themselves up for massive user hate.
My iPhone 3G just got out of the 2 year contract last month. Apple was still selling these things less than 2 years ago. That's why they need to give me the safari security patches! I don't care about the new features. I am forced to upgrade my phone if i want to get security patches. Since they don't tell me how long it will be supported, I'm taking a gamble that $200 will buy me a phone that is patched for 2 years.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
But this is exactly the point I was making in my original post;
Jailbreaking an iPhone is a hobby, so there's no professionally made software, add-on drivers, external hardware, etc. that works with a jailbroken iPhone.
Apple can still be a tyrant with the OS and allow for openness with regards to applications, drivers (to some extent) etc. without causing carriers any grief. Will it be harder to use for consumers? I don't see why it would, as long as those same consumers continue to live within the walls provided by Apple.
Do you expect everyone to live under the tyranny of openness where all people using "phones" which are supposed to be "appliances" have to worry about malware and viruses like people on Android? Were you asleep when Google had to crack down on openeness and purge people's phones of the malware? No normal person wants to have to worry about administrating their smartphone like a computer. They want a phone that "just works".
You can have an "open" hobby environment with the risk of malware and instability or you can have phones that work most of the time because they live in a walled garden. You cannot have it both ways.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Once again, I'm confounded by how Slashdotters will obviously put quite a bit of time and thought into a reply that doesn't address a single point of the parent topic.
Slashdot of 2011 seems suspiciously like /b/ of 2008.
Oh, did you HAVE a point? It seemed like your comment was nothing more than a personal opinion that "Apple could open up iOS a bit more" and not suffer any security consequences. You offered not one shred of evidence to support your point-of-view.
I believe my reply to that pronouncement more than adequately addressed your original comment.
1. You said that the choice shouldn't be between "Incompetence and a Walled Garden." I replied that a lot of things "shouldn't be"; but are. I think that addresses the point. To explain further, what I meant is that users cannot, by and large, be trusted to be adequately wary regarding threats (a point that the Android security debacles have underscored QUITE clearly). And with 250k iPhone Apps already, Apple obviously isn't being very tyrannical regarding what gets posted. Yes, there have been a few, VERY few, isolated instances of questionable App Store rejections (the truly dumbest of which they have reversed themselves on); but by and large, Apple has pretty much not said "No, you can't sell this". The whole "boobies" thing, IMHO, was because the iPad was coming out, and Apple KNEW that they would have the iPad in MANY small children's hands, and in schools, and they KNEW that no matter what "prove yourself" protection they put on the App Store, it would be circumvented, and Apple's push to get the iPad into educational markets would come to an end, and, more importantly, small children would have access to not only boobies, but who-knows-what-else. There are PUH-LENTY of places to view that stuff already; so it isn't like Apple was denying anything in a real sense; they just didn't want THEIR store to become "seedy", which, if you saw how many STUPID "booby" apps there WERE, was actually happening. Before Apple kicked the sex stuff to the curb, it was actually getting QUITE difficult to find LEGIT apps, because the App Store had become SO polluted with that stuff, that ANY search result would return TONS of sex apps, which you would have to wade through to find what you REALLY wanted. Ask nearly any early iPhone owner. It was really getting stupid.
2. You opined that Apple could "open up IOS a bit more" and nothing bad would happen. Well, first off, you don't QUALIFY "Open up iOS" really means; so that is pretty difficult to "address". And you don't QUANTIFY what "a bit more" is; so that is impossible to "address". Nonetheless, I did my best to explain WHY Apple's decision, even if you happen to disagree with it, was a sound one for the vast majority (and that's all ANYONE can try to satisfy) of iOS users. The fact that that chafes against a REALLY small minority is simply unavoidable. Apple can only have ONE policy in this regard, and so they have no choice but to try and make that policy workable for most of their actual, and potential, iOS users. And my original reply more-than-adequately "addressed" why, in my OPINION, I thought that Apple had done exactly the right thing, overall.
Any more "addressing" of your "points" will simply have to wait until you deign to favor us wth a more compelling argument than "I think that Apple can change this"; which is all you have actually done. There is no "because" in your arguments. How does anyone "address" a simple PRONOUNCEMENT? And yet, I have done so. Twice now.
So, perhaps, if you don't understand at this point, you'll just have to STAY "confounded".
You've obviously never bought a Lexus, or any luxury car. EVERYTHING is an option on these cars.
They'll sell you a "storage" package for 250 bucks (aka the mesh pockets behind the seats). They'll sell you the mats for 150 bucks, etc. etc. No one pays close to MSRP on these cars, as once you get all the options the price increases by 20-30%. And if you don't get the options it really hurts your resale value.
The fact is that Apple was still happily signing people up for two year contacts with AT&T on brand freaking new iPhone 3Gs until last June.
Wrong : the iPhone 3GS is still supported by the new 4.3 version (see here).
I think the GP was talking about multiple iPhone 3G units (thus the small "s" in "iPhone 3Gs"), not the iPhone 3GS.
Sapere aude!
First, you're confusing the 3G and 3Gs. They are two different models of phones
The original iPhone was released in July 2007 (announced January/February 2007). The iPhone 3G, July 2008. iPhone 3GS was July 2009, and iPhone 4 (the 4 is "4th generation" of iPhone, because it follows iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3Gs) in July 2010. iPhone 5 will be July 2011 barring anything major.
The iPhone 3G, which got the ill-conceived 4.0 and 4.1 updates that made it slower than molasses, will NOT be getting the 4.3 update. The iPhone 3Gs, meanwhile does have 4.3.
iPhone 3G is the same as the original iPhone, except it has a 3G modem in place of the 2G one. The iPhone 3GS upgraded the CPU with a 50% faster one (600MHz, up from 400MHz), a move from ARM11 to Cortex A8 (ARMv6 to ARMv7), and doubled the RAM from 128MB to 256MB. Hence the "S" for "Speed" - it was quite a bit faster over the 3G.
Incidentally, RAM issues and RAM management are one of the primary suspects in the reason why 4.0 sucks on the iPhone 3G, and why 4.x runs decently well on the iPhone 3GS.
The big issue is right now Apple still sells the 3GS as a low-end iPhone - how long will support last for it is a big unknown.
Hmm. I'd always thought that the one big advantage of the iPhone was that once you'd paid your money, you could always upgrade to the latest OS. I remember a rant from a Microsoft employee about the stupidity of carriers refusing to update Windows Phone devices, and how he'd be getting an iPhone instead. So this is quite a step down in reputation for Apple. (Or am I out of date and the mark 1 iPhone was already unsupported?)
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Dead horse and all given the time that's passed, but no, I'm not confusing the iPhone 3G with the iPhone 3GS. You are confusing multiple iPhone 3Gs with a single iPhone 3GS. As you said in the case of the latter, the "S" is for "Speed". In the case of the former, the "s" denotes plural. :)