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TSA To Retest Full Body Scanners For Radiation
cultiv8 writes with this excerpt from USA Today:
"The Transportation Security Administration announced Friday that it would retest every full-body X-ray scanner that emits ionizing radiation — 247 machines at 38 airports — after maintenance records on some of the devices showed radiation levels 10 times higher than expected. The TSA says that the records reflect math mistakes and that all the machines are safe. Indeed, even the highest readings listed on some of the records — the numbers that the TSA says were mistakes — appear to be many times less than what the agency says a person absorbs through one day of natural background radiation.
Even so, the TSA has ordered the new tests out of 'an abundance of caution to reassure the public,' spokesman Nicholas Kimball says. The tests will be finished by the end of the month, and the results will be released 'as they are completed,' the agency said on its website."
Shouldn't they be testing the radiation output from these machines at regular intervals to make sure they're safe?
(as opposed to just checking them when the public needs "reassuring")
In the past, the TSA has failed to properly monitor and ensure the safety of X-ray devices used on luggage. A 2008 report by the worker safety arm of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that the TSA and its maintenance contractors had failed to detect when baggage X-ray machines emitted radiation beyond what regulations allowed. They also failed to take action when some machines had missing or disabled safety features, the report shows.
Oh, wait, that's right. For the most part, they're incompetent, or just don't care.
The least they could do while subjecting people to discomfort and harm is ensure that they're keeping damage to a minimum. Assholes.
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
..."math mistakes"... but we should be reassured that it's only mathematical incompetence, and not, you know, the sort of incompetence that leads to incorrectly calculating radiation risk... you know, mathematical incompetence.
While all you geeky LOSERS patter on about being exposed to LESS radiation than your fucking CELL PHONE (and really, do ANY of you masturbation freaks actually ever get out of your mom's basement?), the WINNERS are dealing with actual real issues involving warlocks and tiger blood. I get zapped at the airport maybe 8 times a year. The amount of alcohol and cocaine I take will kill me first, and I plan on NEVER DIEING.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
A TSA spokesperson stated that future radiation studies would be carried out by trained professionals.
Where you have to get your balls groped to be able to travel. You would be hard pressed to make a public servant grope your balls even in 3rd world countries. But, its free in america.
..
That, or a good dose of healthy radiation
"Hello sir ! What would you like to have today ? Ball-grope, or radiation ?"
now come to think of it, even that 'hello sir' part may be extra in that sentence.
Read radical news here
Yes, ok. I completely trust people who can't do arithmetic to dose me with ionizing radiation. That sounds smart.
the numbers that the TSA says were mistakes — appear to be many times less than what the agency says a person absorbs through one day of natural background radiation.
Citing the TSA? Like they're a reliable source? If the TSA said the sky was blue, I'd double check it.
Oy vey!
So glad that the people who use these machines on people and make mathematical mistakes in their logs are the ones that are going to be testing it for safety. That should settle the matter.
This sets a new bar for incompetence. Its almost comical that they are admitting that someone didn't divide by 10 to get an average, but instead *added* the numbers together. This smells like its too dumb to be true, and they are hiding something.
Their example of "appear to be many times less than what the agency says a person absorbs through one day of natural background radiation." is a bad one.
The force of a bullet hitting a person is the same as that of the stock hitting the shoulder of the shooter. I'd rather be on the shooter's end.
Just because the amount of radiation is the same (or less) it doesn't mean its the same type. The scanners concentrate that radiation at one frequency, not over a broad spectrum. That frequency is absorbed not by the whole body, but by the first few millimeters of flest. That means that bit of flesh is getting thousands of times higher levels of exposure then that of the whole body mass exposure of back ground radiation.
There's a keychain-sized radiation detector available for $160. It's a sealed unit, always on, and has a 10-year battery life. It sounds a burst of "chirps" if it detects radiation, with the number of chirps indicating logarithmically the level of hazard. One chirp, the level of radiation is safe for 40 days of exposure. 10 chirps, lethal within hours. Putting one in front of a dental X-ray machine produces about five chirps.
Carry one of those through a body scanner and see what happens.
make it like beavis and butthead do america full body cavity search.
In The Puppet Masters people had to go around naked to prove they weren't carrying alien parasites. Now it's going to be so they can tell you aren't carrying bombs or weapons. Just how far are we willing to go for the sham of political correctness?
I think the raised blood pressure from reading stuff like this is more damaging to my health than the radiation itself
Indeed, even the highest readings listed on some of the records — the numbers that the TSA says were mistakes — appear to be many times less than what the agency says a person absorbs through one day of natural background radiation.
That is irrelevant, and in my recommendation whoever came up with that formulation should be fired, or at least reassigned to duties far from any actual responsibilities.
I have been unable to find any actual numbers for dosage recorded in this case, so let's look at the National Council on Radiation Protection Commentary No. 16 - Screening of Humans for Security Purposes Using Ionizing Radiation Scanning Systems, which I believe governs this.
The Commentary states that general-use systems should adhere to an effective dose of 0.1 microsievert (Sv) (0.01 millirem) or less per scan, and can be used mostly without regard to the number of individuals scanned or the number of scans per individual in a year. An effective dose of 0.1 Sv (0.01 mrem) per scan would allow 2,500 scans of an individual annually [i.e., if each scan required 0.1 Sv (0.01 mrem)] without exceeding the administrative control of 0.25 mSv (25 mrem) to a member of the general public for a single source or set of sources under one control. Assuming 250 workdays per year, this would correspond to an average of 10 scans each day, a frequency that is unlikely to be encountered.
So, if the actual dose is 10 times that, or 1 micro Sv / scan, then the "administrative control" of 250 microSv / year would require only 250 scans, or one per workday, a frequency which would not be "unlikely to be encountered." In fact, both really frequent flyers and airline crew would be likely to match or exceed this. To be blunt about it, the TSA chose words intended to obscure the likelihood that their radiation guidelines are being violated, at least for some members of the public. This does not inspire confidence.
Remember, too, that this technology was pushed heavily by Michael Chertoff when he was in office, and now he is profiting from its deployment. That also does not inspire confidence.
I think that there should be an independent audit of the TSA's use of X-Ray backscatter and that until that is done members of the flying public should refuse to take those scans. It is better to get groped than to get cancer.
Does anybody really expect that the TSA would admit that their scanners are dangerous and then remove them? No way. Not after the hundreds of millions of dollars they've spent buying them. I guarantee their tests will show that everything is A-OK regardless of what the truth might actually be.
---- I'll take you in a Hunt deathmatch any day.
According to wired the machines have never been tested against mice. That seems like an obvious test to do. Also it should be tested by somebody independent, because we're all sick of the blatant lies we've been told from Rapiscan vendors.
The training that the TSA agents took does require this "groping." (I have talked to off-duty TSA agents about this.) However, I also travel a lot, I always refuse the scanning, and I have yet to be groped. I think that they are just not (by and large) following their training in this matter.
And to speed things up they've already started writing up the results.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
We need to git rid of all scanners, x-ray machine, etc. There will be random, "aggressive", pat downs by attractive male/female "escorts"... Your choice as to which you will be groped by. There will of course be a charge for this service, cough, I mean security procedure. And there will be a menu of other extras you may request at an additional cost. This will not only solve the security and radiation exposure issues, but the TSA will become self supporting agency and within a few years run a surplus I suspect.
Given the rash of medical radiation devices that have been gorking people because they were working incorrectly, I do worry about this.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/health/06radiation.html?src=mv
How about we have an agency OTHER than the TSA provide data on how much radiation in being emitted. Not hard to do -- OSHA rep visits the airport, run the test on each machine, and out. TSA never has to do math again; the radiation output is not a security question anyway.
And you avoid situations like this one, where testing gets somehow... skipped.
Source: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/umdnj_didnt_test_medical_x-ray.html
Mr. Pistole:
According to federal sources cited around the web, the amount of radiation is less than 1/1000 times the dosage from 3 minutes of air travel.
If these systems are as safe as you say, being scanned 100,000 times is about the amount of radiation one would get from a 4 hour flight.
It would go a long way towards convincing everyone if, as a publicity stunt, you allowed yourself to be scanned 100,000 times over a four hour period.
The equivalent dosage would be a little less than from a four hour flight, which is a risk that you regularly take as part of your official duties.
If you do this and emerge unharmed, I'm willing to concede the point. Until then, I claim that there is no evidence to warrant any claims as to the safety of airport scanners.
Rajstennaj Barrabas
Nashua, NH
What a buncha retahds.
There is no excuse for this. None. Trying to downplay it with a lame excuse only makes it look like they're covering something up.
I'll bet the TSA is doing exactly that.
"It all depends on what your definition of "is" is"
--
BMO
Or your off-duty TSA agent wasnt telling you the truth, or his trainers werent following the official procedure, or you misheard...
The possibilities are endless...
Just because that female TSA agent thinks you're fugly doesn't mean she didn't grope MY balls!
Most of you are HS dropouts, and fondling peoples' junk is the only amount of authority you will ever have. If it wasn't for the government coming to your rescue, you'd be cleaning up my kid's shit off of the floor at Denny's. Since you're already down there fondling our junk, the least you could do is put that shit in your mouth once in a while!
So if I understand this correctly, the scanners don't expose you to more than you'd normally get in a day. However, it does it in 10 seconds or less.
To put this in perspective, if I shower for 10 minutes on average, and I find a machine that can blast the water at me in 1/1000th of a second would be good? I think I'd be missing skin among other things.
How about the fact that I've now doubled the normal radiation in just 10 seconds? If I have to go out to another terminal in an airport where the terminals aren't connected (like many of my connections through Logan), I now get triple? If I fly back in the same day, add at least two more hits.
Going through these things doesn't keep the normal radiation from happening, so you end up with twice as much. It seems this might be a less than good thing.
Plant a tree in a developing country.
If I get sick and need a scan, my government pleads poverty and leaves me on my own. If I try to fly somewhere, suddenly they're so overstuffed with money that they demand that I take a scan.
Best of both worlds, have certified radiologists operate the airport scanners and pat-downs. They can not only get you where you're going but give you a free scan and manual breast or testicular cancer screening.
Dunno bout you , but id sure as hell like to totally make fun of those machines and the TSA boyos . :)
Is there a paint . or something that will show up on their xray / scan machines that we could write subtle messages with right on our skin to let them know how we truly feel ? Ex writing on one's butt " Scan This "
One thing people rarely consider is the amount of cosmic rays you get with the high altitude during a flight. A visiting physics professor coming to our university wore a geiger counter watch during the flight. After he explained to nearby passengers why it was sounding alarms, he was detained when they landed. :( The talk he was coming for was cancelled because he was held for several hours at an airport for detecting cosmic rays in this age of paranoia.
Anyway, here's an article about the dosage you get during flight compared to the scanners:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politifact-radiation-of-airport-scans-less-than-the-dose-in-flight/1135857
No, the possibilities are not endless. They had a training film, produced by a contractor. (I don't remember which one, and I can't find a link, but it was one of the usual suspects.) That is the way the Government generally does training. I don't know how explicit the film was, but the discussion was very explicit (I remember the phrase "lift and separate," among others).
I was also told that there was general unhappiness about this new procedure, under the assumption that agents would catch even more hell from the public.
"I feel safer already."
Do I detect a hint of disappointment?
On a related note, I used to have this squishy ball shaped stress ball hanging on my keychain. One day I went to a club where they patted you down for weapons before you could go inside. I noticed the bouncer's face when he got to that part and I could tell he was trying to figure out if he wanted to ask me what it was, or if he should buy me dinner first. He looked quite relieved when I told him he wasn't actually groping me.
No, the possibilities are not endless. They had a training film, produced by a contractor. (I don't remember which one, and I can't find a link, but it was one of the usual suspects.) That is the way the Government generally does training. I don't know how explicit the film was, but the discussion was very explicit (I remember the phrase "lift and separate," among others).
I was also told that there was general unhappiness about this new procedure, under the assumption that agents would catch even more hell from the public.
Heck.. there was even an internal memo posted from one of the higher ups that basically said the entire purpose of the pat down ..
was to make the radiation treatment more appealing
The radiation danger to individuals may be significant, but the real danger is to the TSA agents that work in close proximity to the devices 40 hours a week or more. It would be worth the money to put one of these in the office of director of homeland security. Passengers don't have to even go through these devices if they don't want too. Plus they are easy to avoid. Most airports have multiple lanes and it is easy to just go to the line without the scanner. In my own airport CLT I can avoid it by going to the C checkpoint that doesn't even have the devices.
Homeland Security is a massive operation that is out of control and puts a vast amount of money into a vast number of pockets - which means more influence than any government body apart from the entire combined defence forces. Any attempt to assert decent control would result in accusations all the way up to treason and result at minimum in a hell of a lot of people losing jobs that they never should have been doing in the first place. That means whoever attempts to tackle it gets to lose their party enough votes that they can forget about getting another President in for a decade or more.
Now if only there had been a Central Intelligence Agency with a brief of coordinating all intelligence there would never have been a need for Homeland Security in the first place. There was? OK, if only there was an agency like that that was run by somebody with a clue that could actually take the job seriously and not another horse judge buddy.
I think it's an easy out for the TSA. It allows them to kill the program (while still out a crazy cost to us tax payin folk) under the pretext of a safety, we screwed up, guise. I gotta wonder if the TSA is officially the most inomptant wasteful agency ( and if the're not, good god) in this country.
They come in the dark, only in the darkest.
Did Americans finally realize those scanners will kill more people than terrorists could ever dream of?
the 'news' goo-goo, yahoo etc... also reported; "the 'worst' damage from the tsunami was in california"? they do have a way with words/like to bring things 'home' for us.
This has been known for decades. The more time at altitude the LESS you should be exposed to other forms of radiation. That's why they ask you questions about flying before any medical procedure involving radiation.
I'll bet the pilots are incredibly pissed about all these scans because for one thing it can reduce their legal flight time.
To make things worse these things are not just your normal transmission x-ray where you just want to see what photons make it to the sensor and the dark spots tell you where the dense stuff is. What these scanners are doing is providing far more radiation with the aim of getting atoms to absorb and re-emit photons - effectively making you radioactive while the scanner is on. The idea behind that is the wavelengths of the re-emitted photons can be used to determine what elements are present, find metal and perhaps find explosives. Because that really adds up to a shitload of radiation if it's going to scan all the way through you the dose is cut back and you just end up with the skin being exposed to quite a lot and no ability to sense internally hidden explosives.
Apart from having a chance of finding some specific kinds of explosives (which are just as easily detected by gas sensors or dogs) it's not going to find any more metal than a conventional and much lower radiation x-ray.
It's security homeopathy - take something that might work at very dangerous levels of radiation and water it down in an attempt to improve the safety but give up on any chance of it being effective. The compromise is still slightly dangerous but does nothing to get a useful result. That makes them a useless and dangerous waste of time and money that is coming out of your pocket.
However, the thing that really should have alarm bells ringing very loudly is that there is no disinterested third party making sure that people are telling the truth. It's a corrupt third world type situation where one group can completely ignore the radiation safety rules that every other industry has to comply with. I'm not going to trust these people and wait another ten years to hear about it being another shoe fluoroscopy sort of scandal - I think they should be under adult supervision now.
But what does the amount of background radiation people experience every day have to do with this anyway... because people experience that every day, so am I wrong in thinking that any additional ionizing radiation is on -top- of the background radiation?
Isn't this an additive thing?
Indeed, I recently refused to go through an active millimeter-wave scanner and therefore was subject to the "enhanced pat-down". The agent took longer to explain to me what he was going to do than doing it, and there was no ball-handling.
And it's not a grope, is a brush.
You are required to firmly feel the inside of each thigh until you meet with "resistance".
While "groped" would certainly be an exaggeration, I have absolutely had my balls touched by a TSA officer after refusing the scanner here in San Francisco. This has happened more than once.
How about they test to see if they actually prevent terrorism more than my magic rock?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Back in Nov I wrote my rep about the TSA's scanners. Here is a copy of his letter to the TSA. http://markey.house.gov/docs/homeland_security/markey_letter_to_fda_11.23.10.pdf
These radiation levels are contrary to what independent studies have found, but it's no surprise that TSA would release findings that show no harmful radiation. These people have been caught lying before you can't trust them, I certainly wouldn't trust them with my health.
Just because that female TSA agent thinks you're fugly doesn't mean she didn't grope MY balls!
Yeah, OK, you keep thinkin' that, you stud... Sure... Your fat belly, goatee, and Cheeto breath and all. Go back ti your MILF porn.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
I work in the medical devices industry. While we don't deal specifically in medical imaging equipment, we are highly familiarized with the risks and inner workings of these machines. I can honestly say, beyond a doubt, that there is not a single person working in my company that will willingly subject themselves to one of these scans. It's the good ol' ball gropin' for us. Just some food for thought for those of you out there that might encounter a back scatter x-ray.
... until it becomes the home of the brave.
Who the hell is okay with naked pictures of little kids? If you are I can refer you to the Pope job placement.
-- Prepared at the direction of, or to be sent to Legal Counsel, in anticipation of litigation. Attorney Client Pri
why isn't this being used as an opportunity to let the FDA step in and do its job? I don't like the idea of the TSA self-regulating, it's counter-productive at best.
I make radiology stations for a living. The 3 companies that make the "backscatter" x-ray machines aren't people like "GE' or "Siemens", they're defense contractors. There's many radiologiests who won't fly commercial because of these things. All it takes is ONE screw up in configuration and maintenance and you get Therac-25... except these things are everywhere now...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
Imagination is the silver lining of Intelligence.
Like Debbie Did Dallas.
Neopolitaino is a royal ass kisser and save asser.
Her hatred for U.S. citizens is almost equal to her "Lov Thang", Barak-O-Vision (the half-breed Barak Hussain Obama).
Now, with help from Barak-O-Vision Math, TSA will do Dallas like Debbie, just with the IRS tutors.
-308
PS
Gen. Clapper is spot-on!
Quaddifi will win.
No one in the media asks, "Why?".
Answer:
1) Barak Hussain Obama signed a secret executive order demanding that
a) the U.S. Treasury supply money to Quaddifi's bank accounts,
b) the Dept. of Defense supply people, ammunition, and munitions to support Quaddifi forces.
Ho-Ho Obama got a sentence inserted into the UN resolution absolving all US and British forces activities in Libya!
Ga -- Dang! According to NBC, CBS and ABC, there are no contacts of US military with Quaddifi forces, but that is wrong! The US military and Treasury officials, thanks to Obama's double=dealing, are laying the groundwork for the defeat of the rebel fighters.
Why? Quaddifi and his Libya are central to the U.S.A. Terror State and must survive even at the cost of 2 million U.S. lives. This in order to appease the thrust of Barak Hussain Obama, aka Barak-O-Vision.
--00
The problem is that most TSA agents feel bad about groping another man's junk. The only ones that don't are either gay or psychopaths - TSA agents that do willfully these type of patdowns are the ones we should be scared off, they might be the Boston Strangler on their time off. And it's not like the agents can/will be fired for not willing to do their job, they just have to say: it's against my religion/sexuality (or whatever protected right) or "I would like to have a union representative present".
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Is a punch in the face sufficient resistance?
We lack a sensible exit strategy, now that we got a lot of bad press for those scanners, from privacy intrusion to child porn allegations. The best move is probably to say that they're emitting too much radiation (thanks to Japan, that's currently an issue), and so we can phase them out without losing face, we'll do it for your safety and health.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
what do you expect? - it's San Francisco...!
Ask Me About... The 80's!
The problem is that most TSA agents feel bad about groping another man's junk....
No, TSA guys do not feel bad about "groping" guys "junk" because they *DO NOT* grope guys "junk".
The facts are that at the MOST you *might* get a pat down that is no more invasive than a cop might give you if het thought you might be "packing". I ***KNOW*** this is true because unlike all you basement dwelling mother fuckers, I actually travel on real air planes 6 or 8 times a years (witch is 16 or so times through TSA).
There is a LOT to dislike about TSA, but fondling your balls is not going to happen.
I sense that a LOT of you geeks really WANT them to touch you?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Haha... I don't know - I guess a simple "thank you" would have been nice.
Sorry, but you've got it backwards inside out and completely wrong - please look it up instead of going by "gut feeling".
Maybe start with descriptions of electron microscopes and how you can determine what elements are present in the visual field by using a sensor to determine what photons are given off from the absorbed and re-emitted radiation. These scanners are a different application of that.
It looks like by trying to put things very simply in the previous post about photons being re-emitted I hit a personal button and the blinkers came down before you read "scanner is on".
Radiation goes in - a different wavelength comes out. That's what it's all about and why they can detect some materials with it. It's not the normal x-ray where the source is on one side of you, the sensor on the other and all you can see is contrast between what blocks the x-rays (bones) and what doesn't (muscle and some plastic explosives).
"Troll"? You've got to be kidding me. Which ever lame slacker Slashdotter with mod points that modded me "troll" CLEARLY does not fly.
Just sad.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
First prize for misunderstanding so badly and reading so far between the lines that you ended up in a reality too stupid for an episode of X-Files. Of course I'm not saying anything resembling what you have written - the two words at the start "Homeland Security" should have been a clue.
Let's put it more simply - it's an uncontrolled enormous cash cow getting milked by many and it's both bypassed the chain of command of other groups and absorbed them. For example - WTF is Homeland Security doing getting involved in Rubik's cube trademark enforcement? Scope creep on an epic scale has put the thing beyond anything other than termination - which would require a President brave enough to be prepared to be hated by most of the USA for the rest of his life.
just return the damn machines already and get our money back.
In a court of law, all of what you just said would be called "hearsay" and tossed in the rubbish bin.